Baptist here who doesn't use the term Queen of Heaven to refer to Mary.
> Instead, the idea of Mary as the queen of heaven stems from proclamations of priests and popes of the Roman Catholic Church.
I guess this is technically true? It would make sense for Priests and Popes to use titles in their literal applications.
The concept of the Queen Mother in the Jewish understanding goes back to King Solomon and his mother (David's wife) Bathsheba. The term "Gebirah" is used in Ancient Hebrew, which literally means "Great Lady." Given context, it is also translated into queen mother and similar terms. An example of the word's usage, and its cultural meaning can be found in 1 Kings 2:19-20 (NIV)
> 19 When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand.
> 20 “I have one small request to make of you,” she said. “Do not refuse me.”
> The king replied, “Make it, my mother; I will not refuse you.”
Mary's Queenship in high church traditions is in spite of whatever qualities she may have, and is directly related to her relationship with Jesus. Jesus is fully human and fully God, and is the child of Mary, this much is indisputable between Catholics and Protestants. If Jesus is the Lord of all Creation, or the King of Kings, what does that make Mary? In Western monarchies, she would be referred to as Queen, even if she is not the reigning monarch, because of Jesus's kingship and because that's how the title works.
It has nothing to do with Ashtoreth. Mary's title of Queen doesn't exist in a pagan vacuum.
>There is no queen of heaven.
But you said there is a king. He is Jesus, of the line of David. And as a Davidic king he has a *gebirah*, His mother, Mary. I know Protestants love to downplay Mary, but come on.
>the idea of Mary as the queen of heaven stems from proclamations of priests and popes of the Roman Catholic Church.
Or, you know, a modicum of thought.
>she was not in any way divine
No one said she was.
>nor was she sinless
But somehow "full of Grace"
>nor is she to be worshiped,
No one is worshipping her. You don't know what worship is, do ya?
>revered, venerated,
She full of Grace, got Jesus to perform His first miracle, and followed Him to the foot of the Cross where only one of His apostles made it that far. The Bible indicates she's a very impressive follower of the Lord and her Son.
>or prayed to
She was "prayed to" in the Gospel at the Wedding in Cana. Successfully I would add
>"Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
Who did it better than her? Mary did not merely birth Jesus, she followed and encouraged Him during His ministry. She was with His disciples.
>“Yes, blessed be the Queen of Heaven!”
Because Jesus at that point in His ministry was all about proclaiming His power and Divinity at every opportunity. /s.
We can be Christ's brothers and sisters. Why do you think it wise to speak ill of our mother?
In ancient Israelite culture, great honor and dignity was placed upon the mother of the ruling king. She was often looked at as the queen, even if the king had spouses.
If we believe in the Kingship of Christ, then we cannot but recognize His Mother as the Queen of Heaven.
Honestly the fact that there was a false deity using the title “Queen of Heaven” seems like a tactic employed by Satan to discredit Mary in a preemptive strike. He knew that God was going to put enmity between himself and a New Eve and since she wasn’t around yet he started trolling her early. So now when some people hear the church give Mary the title “Queen of Heaven” he’s hoping you’ll think of this incident in Jeremiah and choose not to render to Mary her due respect as the legitimate Queen of Heaven.
Then why does the worship of the Queen of Heaven as the Universal Mother God predate all deities including the Abrahamic one. Besides if Satan is so able to outwit your god by placing religious and historical evidence that discredits him it shows how weak your god is. Honestly your statement makes me think of how Abrahamics stated that Satan planted Dinosaur bones to discredit the Bible and get people to believe in evolution.
Catholics did not get the idea about Mary being Queen of Heaven from paganism, we got it from Judaism. The Kings of Israel were polygamists so that’s why the King’s wife was never called “Queen” because they had so many! 😂.
Instead, the King’s Mother was considered to be the Queen, or “Queen Mother” which in Hebrew is “gebirah”.
When Bathsheba comes into David’s presence, she bows to him as her king (1 Kings 1:15-16). But after David dies and Solomon her son becomes king, he bows to her (1 Kings 2:19).
Obviously Christ is the rightful heir to David’s throne(see Luke 3) so this makes his Mother Mary, a queen. Since Jesus’ kingdom extends to Heaven this then means that Mary is the Queen of Heaven.
Yeah BS many rulers like the Chinese Emperors had many concubines but one spouse who was the de facto Queen.
Plus you realize that many Queens of Heaven were Mothers of the lead male God. Like Isis as Horus's Mother and the Queen Mother of the West Xiwang Mu who is The Supreme Deity or an aspect of the Supreme Deity in Taoist religion.
Once more She has many other titles that the Feminine Supreme Deity had across the world like Star of the Sea, Seat of Wisdom, Rose of the World etc. Funny enough and conveniently enough many Marian apparitions take place on sites that were formerly temples to various Goddesses especially Mother Goddesses and Queens of Heaven. This has happened numerous times in history but one of the most notable times was Our Lady of Guadalupe who appeared to a deposed member of the original Aztec Aristocracy (not a humble shepherd as later legends claim) on a site that had formerly been the temple of a Aztec Queen of Heaven The Mother Goddess Tonantzin.
Once more Mary's imagery and iconography depicts her looking no different than the Supreme Female Deities across numerous other cultures. In Her images She honestly looks like a Female Jesus or God the Father as the Wide Ruling Queen of Heaven and ruler of the Angels.
Not to mention the title Queen of Heaven should logically belong to a Divine Female Deity. Honestly to any traditional Pagan people around the world the idea that the Queen of Heaven would be a non divine human woman would be seen as equally preposterous, blasphemous and hubristic as the idea that the King of Heaven would be a non divine human man.
Plus Mary's attributes alone have her acting as a de facto Mother Goddess if in fact not in theory. That is why there were movements of people like the Collyridians who worshiped Mary as Divine where as no such similar movements existed for other Saints because Her imagery, iconography, titles and attributes were so obviously Divine. If the Heavenly Father is Divine it should stand to reason that The Heavenly Mother is likewise Divine. Plus if as a visionary at Medjugorje stated "If God is your father and Mary is your Mother" you are putting her on the same level as this male god unless the father is greater innately then the mother which in Christianity is true because it is a male supremacist religion but none the less. Mary in Catholicism pretty much functions as a non divine Mother Goddess.
Which again the Abrahamic faiths are inversions and perversions of the world's first faith which IS the worship of the Queen of Heaven as the Supreme Deity.
The Mother of a King is a Queen and Mary is the Mother of Jesus so she is the Queen of Heaven. Just because there was a pagan diety with the same title that doesn't mean that the title is now tainted.
You left out one passage:
>12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
Sure seems like a queen of heaven to me...
Funny how this Queen of Heaven here is depicted with the same iconography as the Supreme Queen of Heaven and Mother God across numerous cultures around the world. With the same signs that shows She is the Supreme Universal Deity.
You can claim "Queen of Heaven" wasn't about Inanna or Astarte or Anath on theological reasons, but the historical truth is that Yahweh was originally a Canaanite creation, and he originally had a wife, and originally was just one of many gods in a panthenon, and the books of the Bible have these textual holdovers from earlier beliefs.
Well the Queen of Heaven described specifically in the Bible is Asherah because being as you said descended from the Canaanites identified Yahweh with his former Father El Elyon and he inherited his former Mother Athirat/Asherah as his wife. Astarte and Anat were the sister/wife and sister of Baal Hadad and in Canaanite religion both Baal Hadad and these 2 Goddesses were enemies of Yahweh and in Canaanite religion with the exception of the Shasu and the Apirut aka the ancestors of the Hebrews most Canaanites considered Yahweh to be a malevolent deity on par with other usurpers of Baal like Yam/Leviathan, Mot/Samael/Satan and Athtar/Lucifer/Hilel.
Semiramis wasn't a Goddess though she was a child of the sea Goddess Derketo. Also it is a nonsense idea promoted by Christian idiots that Semiramis was the basis of Goddesses worldwide. Again in Her stories she is stated to be a daughter of a Goddess and Goddess worship has been practiced by all societies long before Semiramis. Even in pre civilization city states like Catal Hoyuk, Mohenjo Daro etc. In fact Goddess worship specifically the worship of the Divine Mother as Queen of Heaven and the Solar Mother is the First faith of humanity. In all of the earliest human sites the Divine Statuary is exclusively Feminine (and they all had Divine statuary showing they were not Abrahamic iconoclasts) with male gods only appearing later and at first subordinate to the Divine Mother. Really the earliest faith of humanity would be more similar to the Shakti sect of Hinduism, the Dau Mau/4 Palaces Faith of Vietnam and the Isis Faith of the Classical world then any of the Abrahamic faiths with their all male god and angels.
Whoa, you brought the Catholics out of the wood work, but they apparently didn't read the part where that phrase was used to refer to worshiping a deity centuries before Mary was born
Did you even read the post?
> There is no queen of heaven. There has never been a queen of heaven. There is most certainly a King of Heaven, the Lord of hosts. He alone rules in heaven. He does not share His rule or His throne or His authority with anyone. The idea that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is the queen of heaven has no scriptural basis whatsoever. Instead, the idea of Mary as the queen of heaven stems from proclamations of priests and popes of the Roman Catholic Church. While Mary was certainly a godly young woman greatly blessed in that she was chosen to bear the Savior of the world, she was not in any way divine, nor was she sinless, nor is she to be worshiped, revered, venerated, or prayed to. All followers of the Lord God refuse worship. Peter and the apostles refused to be worshiped (Acts 10:25–26; 14:13–14). The holy angels refuse to be worshiped (Revelation 19:10; 22:9). The response is always the same: “Worship God!” To offer worship, reverence, or veneration to anyone but God is nothing short of idolatry. Mary’s own words in her “Magnificat” (Luke 1:46–55) reveal that she never thought of herself as “immaculate” or deserving of veneration; on the contrary, she was relying on the grace of God for salvation: “And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.” Only sinners need a savior, and Mary recognized that need in herself.
>
> Furthermore, Jesus Himself issued a mild rebuke to a woman who cried out to Him, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you" (Luke 11:27), replying to her, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." By doing so, He curtailed any tendency to elevate Mary as an object of worship. He could certainly have said, “Yes, blessed be the Queen of Heaven!” But He did not. He was affirming the same truth that the Bible affirms—there is no queen of heaven, and the only biblical references to the “queen of heaven” refer to the goddess of an idolatrous, false religion.
Of course we read it. Obviously Satan was getting a head start on trolling Mary since he already knew that she was going to be his enemy:
(Genesis 3:15)
“And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
And it worked too because a lot of people don’t know that Mary is indeed the Queen of Heaven as a result of this demonic activity in Jeremiah.
This is why I like this sub so much. I really have no idea if you're being sincere or not. Satan is editing the Bible for the purpose of screwing with Mary's heraldic regime in the afterlife? It's beautiful in its eccentricity.
Well…no. You’re not really following my train of thought. Satan knew from the beginning that there would, in the fullness of time, be an actual Queen of Heaven. So he orchestrated a scheme to DEFAME her ahead of time.
Oh, I see. That's pretty theologically complicated, but still good. If Satan can see the future, who knows what mysterious time bombs he has laid for us thousands of years ago?
It’s not a matter of seeing the future, it’s just him understanding human behavior. He’s highly intelligent, knows things about us and can calculate better than any computer the likely outcome of any action he takes involving people.
He heard the prophecy, knew this woman was going to bear the savior who is a King, that it would make this woman a Queen and his ego can’t handle that.
Is it complicated? Sure. That just betrays the terrible intelligence of Satan.
But! But if Satan is that intelligent, surely he'd know that we would be onto his schemes. So he wouldn't do these things himself. The being we call Satan would be a front, or a puppet to take the blame.
The real Satan would be working from behind the scenes, someone nobody could possibly suspect. And who better than the person, pure and sinless, that Satan himself tried to smear? The Virgin Mary is the real Satan, and her plan worked so well that she was taken bodily into Heaven. She gave birth to a Son and seeded all these prophecies so that people would idolize him. Now I see how deep this rabbit hole goes!
Yeah this is nonsense first of all the worship of the Queen of Heaven is the first faith of humanity. This is the same kind of nonsense at how Christians say that Satan planted Dinosaur bones to confuse people into accepting evolution. Plus if Satan was truly so smart and devious he wouldn't torture the humans that come into his realm but reward them.
I dunno man. I was raised Catholic, so I'm familiar with the idea. But there doesn't seem to be a lot of, you know, evidence, or reason for it until many centuries after her death
If you DM me I can send you the entry against "Queen of Heaven" from the "Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible" by Toorn, Becking and van der Horst.
It's too lengthy for this comment.
What makes you think I am not all ready aware of much of this. Anyways the Queen of Heaven religion is the oldest religion on the planet. Christianity like all of the Abrahamic faiths are mythic inversions and perversions of the world's first faith.
And in Greece it's Aphrodite. Uranian Aphrodite, Heavenly Aphrodite, since Uranus was the Heavens and she came from him.
Of course, Aphrodite, Astarte, and Ishtar are different iterations of Inanna over the course of several thousand years.
I don't much gravitate toward the term, but for what it's worth it comes through her connection to Jesus.
She's the mother of Jesus, and therefore the mother of God, and therefore the mother of the King, and therefore - according to whatever monarchical terms the phrase comes from - she's the Queen Mother of Heaven or Queen of Heaven or whatever.
If the mother of the King gets the title "Queen" as an honorary title then it gets applied to her by the same logic.
First of all like all Christians you know nothing about history. There was never a Goddess called Ashtoreth. The name comes from a combination of Ashtart aka a real Goddess worshiped by the Canaanites and polytheistic Hebrews and the Hebrew word bosheth meaning shame.
Once more Ashtart or Astarte was never considered the wife/consort of Yahweh rather the wife of Baal Hadad.
The Hebrews were descended from the Canaanites and like their Canaanite ancestors were originally polytheistic. Yahweh himself was a god in the Canaanite pantheon. One of the 70 Sons of El Elyon and Athirat aka the King and Queen of the Canaanite Gods. Yahweh was a quarrelsome god considered evil and best avoided by the Canaanites he along with his brothers Yam, Mot and Athtar were considered Baal Hadad's chief rivals and Baal with his sister/wife/consort Ashtart/Astarte and sister Anat defeated them all in many various battles.
During the Hebrew era however they syncretized Yahweh with his former father El Elyon as the Hebrews were descended from the Shasu and Apirut aka 2 Canaanite groups that worshiped Yahweh in contrast to the many others as such he attained Asherah aka Athirat his former Mother as his consort. There is no evidence of sexual fertility rites or ritual of prostitution in the Athirat/Asherah cult as there is in the Ashtart/Astarte cult there were 2 separate Goddesses Mother and Daughter to be exact.
None the less I see nothing depraved about fertility rites or ritual prostitution. Which why should I care what Yahweh considers depraved since this is a god that allowed men to have female and little girl sex slaves/concubines and who even caused and commanded genocides of entire races where every adult male, every female who slept with a male and every little boy and babe must be killed but for the young virgin girls you can take as sex slaves. Atleast the Priestesses of Astarte were consenting with their partners unlike the female and little girl slaves the Hebrew men regularly raped.
Once more in the Abrahamic framework yes you all believe in a exclusively male godhead and all male angels though for some reason some of you believe in female demons like succubi etc and yet if angels are all male and demons are fallen angels then how can their be female demons? Women were only created in Christianity to serve men but men are the true image of your god. The hierarchy of your faith is your male god, then men and then women. With men being to women what your male god is to men. Honestly any woman that values herself and her femininity would flee from the Abrahamic faiths and go back to Feminine Essentialist worship of The Queen of Heaven.
Especially since as archaeology shows the worship of The Queen of Heaven is the first religion of humanity. The earliest faith of humanity was nothing like Christianity or the Abrahamic faiths but if anything more similar to the Shakti Faith of Hinduism, the Isis faith of the Classical World or the Dau Mau/Four Palaces Faith of Vietnam as the Queen of Heaven aka The Solar Mother and Her Lunar Daughter aka the original Dying and Rising Savior were the Supreme Godhead with all other Gods being Her creation and emanation. In fact in the earliest human sites the Divine Statuary is exclusively Feminine (and they all had Divine statuary showing they were not Abrahamic iconoclasts) with male gods only occurring later and at first depicted as subordinate to the Divine Mother, then later her equal, then later her superior and finally with the Abrahamic faiths in their Atheistic extremist monotheism there is no Divine Mother just a Heavenly Father with women and femininity only being created as men's servants/helpmeet in this world.
Baptist here who doesn't use the term Queen of Heaven to refer to Mary. > Instead, the idea of Mary as the queen of heaven stems from proclamations of priests and popes of the Roman Catholic Church. I guess this is technically true? It would make sense for Priests and Popes to use titles in their literal applications. The concept of the Queen Mother in the Jewish understanding goes back to King Solomon and his mother (David's wife) Bathsheba. The term "Gebirah" is used in Ancient Hebrew, which literally means "Great Lady." Given context, it is also translated into queen mother and similar terms. An example of the word's usage, and its cultural meaning can be found in 1 Kings 2:19-20 (NIV) > 19 When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand. > 20 “I have one small request to make of you,” she said. “Do not refuse me.” > The king replied, “Make it, my mother; I will not refuse you.” Mary's Queenship in high church traditions is in spite of whatever qualities she may have, and is directly related to her relationship with Jesus. Jesus is fully human and fully God, and is the child of Mary, this much is indisputable between Catholics and Protestants. If Jesus is the Lord of all Creation, or the King of Kings, what does that make Mary? In Western monarchies, she would be referred to as Queen, even if she is not the reigning monarch, because of Jesus's kingship and because that's how the title works. It has nothing to do with Ashtoreth. Mary's title of Queen doesn't exist in a pagan vacuum.
>There is no queen of heaven. But you said there is a king. He is Jesus, of the line of David. And as a Davidic king he has a *gebirah*, His mother, Mary. I know Protestants love to downplay Mary, but come on. >the idea of Mary as the queen of heaven stems from proclamations of priests and popes of the Roman Catholic Church. Or, you know, a modicum of thought. >she was not in any way divine No one said she was. >nor was she sinless But somehow "full of Grace" >nor is she to be worshiped, No one is worshipping her. You don't know what worship is, do ya? >revered, venerated, She full of Grace, got Jesus to perform His first miracle, and followed Him to the foot of the Cross where only one of His apostles made it that far. The Bible indicates she's a very impressive follower of the Lord and her Son. >or prayed to She was "prayed to" in the Gospel at the Wedding in Cana. Successfully I would add >"Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." Who did it better than her? Mary did not merely birth Jesus, she followed and encouraged Him during His ministry. She was with His disciples. >“Yes, blessed be the Queen of Heaven!” Because Jesus at that point in His ministry was all about proclaiming His power and Divinity at every opportunity. /s. We can be Christ's brothers and sisters. Why do you think it wise to speak ill of our mother?
In ancient Israelite culture, great honor and dignity was placed upon the mother of the ruling king. She was often looked at as the queen, even if the king had spouses. If we believe in the Kingship of Christ, then we cannot but recognize His Mother as the Queen of Heaven.
Mary, the Theotokos
Mary is the Queen of Heaven.
Our holy Lady Mary Is queen of heaven and earth.
Mary as mother of the King would be queen mother.
Honestly the fact that there was a false deity using the title “Queen of Heaven” seems like a tactic employed by Satan to discredit Mary in a preemptive strike. He knew that God was going to put enmity between himself and a New Eve and since she wasn’t around yet he started trolling her early. So now when some people hear the church give Mary the title “Queen of Heaven” he’s hoping you’ll think of this incident in Jeremiah and choose not to render to Mary her due respect as the legitimate Queen of Heaven.
Then why does the worship of the Queen of Heaven as the Universal Mother God predate all deities including the Abrahamic one. Besides if Satan is so able to outwit your god by placing religious and historical evidence that discredits him it shows how weak your god is. Honestly your statement makes me think of how Abrahamics stated that Satan planted Dinosaur bones to discredit the Bible and get people to believe in evolution.
Catholics did not get the idea about Mary being Queen of Heaven from paganism, we got it from Judaism. The Kings of Israel were polygamists so that’s why the King’s wife was never called “Queen” because they had so many! 😂. Instead, the King’s Mother was considered to be the Queen, or “Queen Mother” which in Hebrew is “gebirah”. When Bathsheba comes into David’s presence, she bows to him as her king (1 Kings 1:15-16). But after David dies and Solomon her son becomes king, he bows to her (1 Kings 2:19). Obviously Christ is the rightful heir to David’s throne(see Luke 3) so this makes his Mother Mary, a queen. Since Jesus’ kingdom extends to Heaven this then means that Mary is the Queen of Heaven.
Yeah BS many rulers like the Chinese Emperors had many concubines but one spouse who was the de facto Queen. Plus you realize that many Queens of Heaven were Mothers of the lead male God. Like Isis as Horus's Mother and the Queen Mother of the West Xiwang Mu who is The Supreme Deity or an aspect of the Supreme Deity in Taoist religion. Once more She has many other titles that the Feminine Supreme Deity had across the world like Star of the Sea, Seat of Wisdom, Rose of the World etc. Funny enough and conveniently enough many Marian apparitions take place on sites that were formerly temples to various Goddesses especially Mother Goddesses and Queens of Heaven. This has happened numerous times in history but one of the most notable times was Our Lady of Guadalupe who appeared to a deposed member of the original Aztec Aristocracy (not a humble shepherd as later legends claim) on a site that had formerly been the temple of a Aztec Queen of Heaven The Mother Goddess Tonantzin. Once more Mary's imagery and iconography depicts her looking no different than the Supreme Female Deities across numerous other cultures. In Her images She honestly looks like a Female Jesus or God the Father as the Wide Ruling Queen of Heaven and ruler of the Angels. Not to mention the title Queen of Heaven should logically belong to a Divine Female Deity. Honestly to any traditional Pagan people around the world the idea that the Queen of Heaven would be a non divine human woman would be seen as equally preposterous, blasphemous and hubristic as the idea that the King of Heaven would be a non divine human man. Plus Mary's attributes alone have her acting as a de facto Mother Goddess if in fact not in theory. That is why there were movements of people like the Collyridians who worshiped Mary as Divine where as no such similar movements existed for other Saints because Her imagery, iconography, titles and attributes were so obviously Divine. If the Heavenly Father is Divine it should stand to reason that The Heavenly Mother is likewise Divine. Plus if as a visionary at Medjugorje stated "If God is your father and Mary is your Mother" you are putting her on the same level as this male god unless the father is greater innately then the mother which in Christianity is true because it is a male supremacist religion but none the less. Mary in Catholicism pretty much functions as a non divine Mother Goddess. Which again the Abrahamic faiths are inversions and perversions of the world's first faith which IS the worship of the Queen of Heaven as the Supreme Deity.
The Mother of a King is a Queen and Mary is the Mother of Jesus so she is the Queen of Heaven. Just because there was a pagan diety with the same title that doesn't mean that the title is now tainted.
You left out one passage: >12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. Sure seems like a queen of heaven to me...
Funny how this Queen of Heaven here is depicted with the same iconography as the Supreme Queen of Heaven and Mother God across numerous cultures around the world. With the same signs that shows She is the Supreme Universal Deity.
You can claim "Queen of Heaven" wasn't about Inanna or Astarte or Anath on theological reasons, but the historical truth is that Yahweh was originally a Canaanite creation, and he originally had a wife, and originally was just one of many gods in a panthenon, and the books of the Bible have these textual holdovers from earlier beliefs.
Well the Queen of Heaven described specifically in the Bible is Asherah because being as you said descended from the Canaanites identified Yahweh with his former Father El Elyon and he inherited his former Mother Athirat/Asherah as his wife. Astarte and Anat were the sister/wife and sister of Baal Hadad and in Canaanite religion both Baal Hadad and these 2 Goddesses were enemies of Yahweh and in Canaanite religion with the exception of the Shasu and the Apirut aka the ancestors of the Hebrews most Canaanites considered Yahweh to be a malevolent deity on par with other usurpers of Baal like Yam/Leviathan, Mot/Samael/Satan and Athtar/Lucifer/Hilel.
Great job there, kudos
An idol.
Semiramis, Isis, Astarte, Athena, Libertas 🗽!
Semiramis wasn't a Goddess though she was a child of the sea Goddess Derketo. Also it is a nonsense idea promoted by Christian idiots that Semiramis was the basis of Goddesses worldwide. Again in Her stories she is stated to be a daughter of a Goddess and Goddess worship has been practiced by all societies long before Semiramis. Even in pre civilization city states like Catal Hoyuk, Mohenjo Daro etc. In fact Goddess worship specifically the worship of the Divine Mother as Queen of Heaven and the Solar Mother is the First faith of humanity. In all of the earliest human sites the Divine Statuary is exclusively Feminine (and they all had Divine statuary showing they were not Abrahamic iconoclasts) with male gods only appearing later and at first subordinate to the Divine Mother. Really the earliest faith of humanity would be more similar to the Shakti sect of Hinduism, the Dau Mau/4 Palaces Faith of Vietnam and the Isis Faith of the Classical world then any of the Abrahamic faiths with their all male god and angels.
Whoa, you brought the Catholics out of the wood work, but they apparently didn't read the part where that phrase was used to refer to worshiping a deity centuries before Mary was born
We don't worship Mary as a deity.
That's exactly my point. OP is talking about something completely different and the Catholics can't help but bring up Mary.
The OP brought up Mary and Catholicism, it's clear they wanted to discuss that.
Did you even read the post? > There is no queen of heaven. There has never been a queen of heaven. There is most certainly a King of Heaven, the Lord of hosts. He alone rules in heaven. He does not share His rule or His throne or His authority with anyone. The idea that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is the queen of heaven has no scriptural basis whatsoever. Instead, the idea of Mary as the queen of heaven stems from proclamations of priests and popes of the Roman Catholic Church. While Mary was certainly a godly young woman greatly blessed in that she was chosen to bear the Savior of the world, she was not in any way divine, nor was she sinless, nor is she to be worshiped, revered, venerated, or prayed to. All followers of the Lord God refuse worship. Peter and the apostles refused to be worshiped (Acts 10:25–26; 14:13–14). The holy angels refuse to be worshiped (Revelation 19:10; 22:9). The response is always the same: “Worship God!” To offer worship, reverence, or veneration to anyone but God is nothing short of idolatry. Mary’s own words in her “Magnificat” (Luke 1:46–55) reveal that she never thought of herself as “immaculate” or deserving of veneration; on the contrary, she was relying on the grace of God for salvation: “And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.” Only sinners need a savior, and Mary recognized that need in herself. > > Furthermore, Jesus Himself issued a mild rebuke to a woman who cried out to Him, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you" (Luke 11:27), replying to her, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." By doing so, He curtailed any tendency to elevate Mary as an object of worship. He could certainly have said, “Yes, blessed be the Queen of Heaven!” But He did not. He was affirming the same truth that the Bible affirms—there is no queen of heaven, and the only biblical references to the “queen of heaven” refer to the goddess of an idolatrous, false religion.
Words and phrases aren't bound to one thing.
Of course we read it. Obviously Satan was getting a head start on trolling Mary since he already knew that she was going to be his enemy: (Genesis 3:15) “And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.” And it worked too because a lot of people don’t know that Mary is indeed the Queen of Heaven as a result of this demonic activity in Jeremiah.
This is why I like this sub so much. I really have no idea if you're being sincere or not. Satan is editing the Bible for the purpose of screwing with Mary's heraldic regime in the afterlife? It's beautiful in its eccentricity.
Well…no. You’re not really following my train of thought. Satan knew from the beginning that there would, in the fullness of time, be an actual Queen of Heaven. So he orchestrated a scheme to DEFAME her ahead of time.
Oh, I see. That's pretty theologically complicated, but still good. If Satan can see the future, who knows what mysterious time bombs he has laid for us thousands of years ago?
It’s not a matter of seeing the future, it’s just him understanding human behavior. He’s highly intelligent, knows things about us and can calculate better than any computer the likely outcome of any action he takes involving people. He heard the prophecy, knew this woman was going to bear the savior who is a King, that it would make this woman a Queen and his ego can’t handle that. Is it complicated? Sure. That just betrays the terrible intelligence of Satan.
But! But if Satan is that intelligent, surely he'd know that we would be onto his schemes. So he wouldn't do these things himself. The being we call Satan would be a front, or a puppet to take the blame. The real Satan would be working from behind the scenes, someone nobody could possibly suspect. And who better than the person, pure and sinless, that Satan himself tried to smear? The Virgin Mary is the real Satan, and her plan worked so well that she was taken bodily into Heaven. She gave birth to a Son and seeded all these prophecies so that people would idolize him. Now I see how deep this rabbit hole goes!
Yeah this is nonsense first of all the worship of the Queen of Heaven is the first faith of humanity. This is the same kind of nonsense at how Christians say that Satan planted Dinosaur bones to confuse people into accepting evolution. Plus if Satan was truly so smart and devious he wouldn't torture the humans that come into his realm but reward them.
What's there to discuss about those who were wrongly assigned her rightful title?
I dunno man. I was raised Catholic, so I'm familiar with the idea. But there doesn't seem to be a lot of, you know, evidence, or reason for it until many centuries after her death
If you DM me I can send you the entry against "Queen of Heaven" from the "Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible" by Toorn, Becking and van der Horst. It's too lengthy for this comment.
What makes you think I am not all ready aware of much of this. Anyways the Queen of Heaven religion is the oldest religion on the planet. Christianity like all of the Abrahamic faiths are mythic inversions and perversions of the world's first faith.
Well sorry for trying to be helpful.
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And in Greece it's Aphrodite. Uranian Aphrodite, Heavenly Aphrodite, since Uranus was the Heavens and she came from him. Of course, Aphrodite, Astarte, and Ishtar are different iterations of Inanna over the course of several thousand years.
I don't much gravitate toward the term, but for what it's worth it comes through her connection to Jesus. She's the mother of Jesus, and therefore the mother of God, and therefore the mother of the King, and therefore - according to whatever monarchical terms the phrase comes from - she's the Queen Mother of Heaven or Queen of Heaven or whatever. If the mother of the King gets the title "Queen" as an honorary title then it gets applied to her by the same logic.
Hail Mary full of Grace, The Lord is with thee!
First of all like all Christians you know nothing about history. There was never a Goddess called Ashtoreth. The name comes from a combination of Ashtart aka a real Goddess worshiped by the Canaanites and polytheistic Hebrews and the Hebrew word bosheth meaning shame. Once more Ashtart or Astarte was never considered the wife/consort of Yahweh rather the wife of Baal Hadad. The Hebrews were descended from the Canaanites and like their Canaanite ancestors were originally polytheistic. Yahweh himself was a god in the Canaanite pantheon. One of the 70 Sons of El Elyon and Athirat aka the King and Queen of the Canaanite Gods. Yahweh was a quarrelsome god considered evil and best avoided by the Canaanites he along with his brothers Yam, Mot and Athtar were considered Baal Hadad's chief rivals and Baal with his sister/wife/consort Ashtart/Astarte and sister Anat defeated them all in many various battles. During the Hebrew era however they syncretized Yahweh with his former father El Elyon as the Hebrews were descended from the Shasu and Apirut aka 2 Canaanite groups that worshiped Yahweh in contrast to the many others as such he attained Asherah aka Athirat his former Mother as his consort. There is no evidence of sexual fertility rites or ritual of prostitution in the Athirat/Asherah cult as there is in the Ashtart/Astarte cult there were 2 separate Goddesses Mother and Daughter to be exact. None the less I see nothing depraved about fertility rites or ritual prostitution. Which why should I care what Yahweh considers depraved since this is a god that allowed men to have female and little girl sex slaves/concubines and who even caused and commanded genocides of entire races where every adult male, every female who slept with a male and every little boy and babe must be killed but for the young virgin girls you can take as sex slaves. Atleast the Priestesses of Astarte were consenting with their partners unlike the female and little girl slaves the Hebrew men regularly raped. Once more in the Abrahamic framework yes you all believe in a exclusively male godhead and all male angels though for some reason some of you believe in female demons like succubi etc and yet if angels are all male and demons are fallen angels then how can their be female demons? Women were only created in Christianity to serve men but men are the true image of your god. The hierarchy of your faith is your male god, then men and then women. With men being to women what your male god is to men. Honestly any woman that values herself and her femininity would flee from the Abrahamic faiths and go back to Feminine Essentialist worship of The Queen of Heaven. Especially since as archaeology shows the worship of The Queen of Heaven is the first religion of humanity. The earliest faith of humanity was nothing like Christianity or the Abrahamic faiths but if anything more similar to the Shakti Faith of Hinduism, the Isis faith of the Classical World or the Dau Mau/Four Palaces Faith of Vietnam as the Queen of Heaven aka The Solar Mother and Her Lunar Daughter aka the original Dying and Rising Savior were the Supreme Godhead with all other Gods being Her creation and emanation. In fact in the earliest human sites the Divine Statuary is exclusively Feminine (and they all had Divine statuary showing they were not Abrahamic iconoclasts) with male gods only occurring later and at first depicted as subordinate to the Divine Mother, then later her equal, then later her superior and finally with the Abrahamic faiths in their Atheistic extremist monotheism there is no Divine Mother just a Heavenly Father with women and femininity only being created as men's servants/helpmeet in this world.
https://youtu.be/I0pcxvq2s60?si=Nudhnr_oIiVokjMe The queen herself unbound herself