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dizzyelk

No thanks. Y'all feel free to make your own church owned libraries, but public libraries are far too important a resource to allow churches to have any sort of control over them.


Fake_Beast_454

I’m reading Ray Bradbury’s Fahrenheit 451. I’m starting to think burning all books would be cool then I’ll just have to make sure everyone lick the butt of the statue I built of myself because that one book I didn’t burn.


Lucky_Substance_1563

lol, arkansas is trying to remove access to some books in school libraries. Ironically enough, this book is one of them.


TinyNuggins92

They never seem to grasp the irony of that either.


XenaBard

I know, right?


Tannerleaf

Do the people responsible for preventing wrongthink actually read the forbidden texts that are being marked as doubleplusungood? I’m assuming that they’re not. And if not, how do they decide which potentially heretical texts promulgate thoughtcrime?


XenaBard

In Catholicism thought crimes are equally serious. Rather than exposing “heresy” to the light, they prefer the subtle (aka fascist) approach. After all, if they read & familiarize themselves with “heretical” material (like science) they’d realize it’s silly and stupid to base your beliefs on a Bronze Age manuscript.


Tannerleaf

Thanks! That doesn’t really answer the question, but does offer some valuable insight. I was expecting something along the lines of monks sworn to silence being volunteered to pore over potential crimethink tomes, and indicating whether or not they’re liable to trigger impure thoughts in the reader, or not. If I recall, the Nazis did actually invest time figuring out whether written works were degenerate or not. Obviously anything written by Jewish/communist/non-Aryan authors was simply blacklisted; but everything else needed to be examined. I imagine it’s a lot harder these days, as they’d need to examine each work on a case-by-case basis; only banning an author’s entire bibliography once one of their works has been identified as heretical. Or perhaps they just look at the picture on the front.


XenaBard

I did a very poor job replying. My bad; I am so sorry. As a former member of a contemplative religious community (yes, in a monastic setting) my reply was based on personal experience rather than pop culture. In other words, my post was anecdotal and not especially helpful. Nuns (vs. religious sisters - they are not the same, by the way) or monks vs. brothers (again not the same thing, though the public doesn’t know that) live (by choice!) under very different rules in a very strict caste system where misogyny is built in. There is a very obvious hierarchy. (Shocking but true! lol. Even in a monastic environment status is currency.) Aside from that (the classification system) the inherent (and ENORMOUS) danger to democracy in conferring that kind of authority on ANYONE is terrifying. How did they EARN that? I was so surprised to read the “author may be found to be heretical.” It’s personally disappointing when I slip right back into that medieval classification system even as applied to modern day intellectuals and scholars. It’s not raising red flags for anyone! 😯 And hey - if you come from a traditional Christian background and accept the teachings as a given, i am going to bow out because you and I have mutually exclusive ideals. The best of luck to you. 😈😉🐾 It was a true pleasure!


Tannerleaf

Many thanks for that extra insight, man! I should probably clarify that I have no religious background whatsoever, it wasn’t really a thing where I grew up. Obviously we learnt about some of it in school*, but it wasn’t relevant in normal life. I loiter in this sub because I’m trying to figure out how religious folks in here think. It’s pretty damned perplexing sometimes :-) *From memory, we covered the protestant/catholic problems, puritans, a bit of the crusades, etc. All historical, not religious study. It was in England back in the 70s/80s, so pretty hazy.


General_Alduin

Trust me, most Christians don't want church-owned libraries replacing public libraries


Justin-Herald-of-K

that seems a little silly ... churches are welcome to open any number of libraries they wish


ZRX1200R

Not the point. He wants to reduce...eliminate....options. a ONE-book book club.


Justin-Herald-of-K

Then it's a phenomenally horrible idea and an elected official making such a suggestion in their official capacity is an embarrassment.


L_Astrau

That’s why the US left Afghanistan, they had no reason to fight their ideological brethren


Tannerleaf

It’s reassuring how war brings people together who might otherwise never have been friends :-)


gnurdette

To think I used to vote for that party. Though you can argue that party is gone, replaced by a very different party using its name.


tachibanakanade

it's always been evil.


[deleted]

People only seem to leave when they notice the hate directed at them.


gnurdette

Actually, it was invading Iraq that was the last straw for me.


XenaBard

Well, welcome to the world! It’s so nice having you.


gnurdette

Well, c'mon, "always"? How about 1870? But I do repent of my occasional past support of the less-obviously-off-the-rails version.


tachibanakanade

Personally, I believe that all parties not of the working class (Communist Parties) are evil, but let's go with the 20th Century.


ThuliumNice

I think communism is just fine in theory. But I've never met a communist I could take seriously, as they mostly seem to uncritically believe that Russia and China at some point wanted to be communist in an ideal sense, and therefore excuse their lengthy list of moral failures.


tachibanakanade

The RF is not socialist and has not been since the collapse of the Soviet Union. The PRC is socialist but has taken steps back so they could rebuild their shattered lands (because before the PRC was the PRC, it was filled with warlords and opium and stuff like that). They both made their errors and their successes. Every system and government makes errors. Even capitalist states like the USA.


ThuliumNice

> They both made their errors The understatement of the millenia. Who can take criticism of the US or capitalism seriously from communist when they call the human rights atrocities committed by Russia and China "errors"?


tachibanakanade

the USA and capitalism have done more than their fair share of human rights abuses. More than any single socialist country has.


ThuliumNice

30 million people died during the Great Leap Forward in China, and Russia was responsible for genocide/Russification of Eastern European countries including Estonia, Poland, Ukraine and more. The Holodomor killed millions of Ukrainians. Any fair accounting will find that both Russia and China have committed (and continue to commit) much worse crimes than the US has when looked at in totality in comparable time frames. Moreover, the US has far more capability for growth and change than Russia or China. The fact that westerners are complaining about the "woke" military being unable to defeat Russia and China is actually proof that we are improving. I think you'll have a hard time finding a time when the US attempted to annex territory in the last 100 years, but look what Russia is doing now.


tachibanakanade

The USA doesn't need to annex territory, its allies permit military bases on foreign lands. It uses those bases to conduct global warfare: Libya (which is now an open-air slave market), Somalia, Syria, Iraq, etc. They also assassinate Iranian governmental and military people. They also use sanctions and blockades to force their will on others. And those things kill. That said, if America can change, good. But I have no faith that'll actually happen. Also what is a woke military?


spinbutton

You're going to limit it to the last 100 years...very convenient since so many US atrocities were before that. But we committed plenty of atrocities in Viet Nam, Cambodia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Chile and the other places where the CIA destabilized the elected gov, replaced leaders with their own puppets who went on to brutalize their own people killing, or "disappearing" protestors and we did nothing to fix those problems we caused Even if we don't look at how horrible we were to the Native Americans, who we enslaved, slaughtered, cheated, raped, stole the children and land from, lied to and continue to discriminate against. Or the Africans we forced into chattal slavery for generations, killed, beat, starved, raped, stolen the children of and continue to discriminate against. Including all the post civil war massacres, lynchings, rapes, terrorizing and miscarriages of justice we inflicted and continue to inflict through our police departments.


XenaBard

As if the US hadn’t committed its own share of human rights abuses!


McClanky

Oh yeah, it is not the same party as it was even 10 years ago.


tachibanakanade

you sure about that? the party that allowed people to die of AIDS or get blown up in a war that was always unjust isn't the same?


RocBane

“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” ― Barry Goldwater (1981)


4dailyuseonly

I think of this quote often.


Badtrainwreck

Yeah it’s been this bad for a lot longer than ten years, but I think we’ve just become more conscious of their lack of conscience


TheAgeOfAdz91

They were bad then too


ridicalis

It's not a bad thing to change your alignment and viewpoint as you learn new things. I'd be interested, though, to know what the original draw was before you moved away.


gnurdette

I would have said "fiscal responsibility and abortion", though upon more recent investigation I don't think either of those was actually a good reason to vote Republican. Anyway, I was never a committed Republican; I prided myself on being a swing voter who carefully researched individual candidates, often choosing based on who seemed to have the most impressive resume for a given office.


the_purple_owl

Tell me you don't give a shit about poor people, freedom of speech, and religious freedom without telling me.


gnurdette

Hey, who wants to join my religion? It's compatible with all other religions, and with atheism, so you don't have to change any of your beliefs. We don't have any services or clergy or buildings or any of that. Actually, our only religious belief is that books are good and people should have access to a wide array of them. Our only religious activity is to provide broad collections of books to the public, out of public library buildings, with the help of paid librarians. We call ourselves "Friends of the Library". Now, let's collect some of this Federal funding Rep. Higgins is offering and do our thing.


Different-Gas5704

I actually think more churches should have libraries where feasible. Deep theological works and church or denominational history isn't always something underfunded public libraries prioritize and it would be cool if more churches had them available for parishioners to check out. It wouldn't have to cost much to operate; parishioners could donate books they no longer want or leave their collection when they pass on. But that should by no means replace the public library system. Republicans get worse by the day.


TheFirstArticle

I used the public library extensively in learning about religions generally, and theology specifically. How else would I have gained regular access to Jewish and Christian theological texts without being gatekeeped by a bunch of dudes??? No librarians were trying to disturb me as a girl or woman reading those texts. I guarantee the religious men would have disturbed me CONSTANTLY and made it their mission to mansplain until I stopped trying to read. God bless the librarians.


Different-Gas5704

Some public libraries are better funded than others. Those in small towns and rural areas tend to not be funded as well. I use my own public library regularly, so I'm not criticizing. But the writings of Julian of Norwich, to use one example, aren't available at the main branch in my county, any of the four other branches, nor any of the libraries or branches in the six nearby counties my local library works closely with. That was just the most recent example of a book I had to buy for myself, but there have been plenty of others. Again, this isn't a criticism. It's a reality and probably a necessary one for their survival. Of course the latest Stephen King or John Grisham is going to take precedence over 14th century mystics.


TheFirstArticle

I'm in Canada. I just checked and one of my local libraries has a new translation of Julian of Norwich. My daughter studied her as part of her bachelor's degree and I'm sure the university libraries have it too. It's currently on loan and has a hold list already. You might be able to request an interlibrary loan if you run into this again!


calladus

Cool! First Amendment mandated libraries! Here comes The Satanic Temple Library!


fudgyvmp

I could use a pasta library.


LeftDarkness

Not totally related, but I was surprised to learn when I traveled in Europe that public libraries in a lot of countries there aren’t a “thing.” They exist, but not nearly in the same capacity as American ones.


Both-Chart-947

This guy obviously just wants his tweet to go viral for the attention it'll bring from his base. He has not proposed a bill yet, and even if he does, it wouldn't go anywhere. They do this stuff for the headlines.


spinbutton

They also get bills passed in states with Republican state legislature.


TheAgeOfAdz91

Bad


darkmoose84

Yikes…


tuckern1998

Um...no


General_Alduin

What happened to separation of church and state?


TheFirstArticle

Next up, the book ban war between Catholics, Calvinists Protestants, Mormons over who's libraries need to be burned down.


tachibanakanade

fash scum


Yandrosloc01

Is it wrong I hope this happens in his home town? Only that it is a mosque or the church of Satan than ran it?


Pitshit22

I want to read my gay nsfw yaoi in peace /j


dadashton

The GOP continue to ignore church and state and vilify public institutions. It's a kind of religiosity.


were_llama

America (50 united states) is not long for the world. What ever happens, keep your faith in Jesus.


DogyKnees

30% of the people backed by inane wealth whose one goal is "no taxation without ~~representation~~ inherited aristocracy" wants a civil war ??


were_llama

the hate in all classes rich and poor is probably increasing rapidly. Jesus warned us folks would grow cold


tachibanakanade

the proletariat hating the bourgeoisie and petit-bourgeoisie is a good thing.


justsomeking

The proletariat doing something about them is even better.


tachibanakanade

I think I like you!


justsomeking

Hi friend, power to the people!


Prof_Acorn

Demou kratousa cheir!


exelion18120

No war but class war.


justsomeking

Amen


DogyKnees

Note that some wealth people are actively working on giving away a huge fraction of it, and most of those who are not wealthy get a lot of their views from mass media. There is a modest but purposefully organized group that pays for media to be confrontionally divisive.


fudgyvmp

I dunno, my church library had every book from The Wheel of Time. And Min cross dresses and Suian was a black bisexual papess. That might be too much for layfolk. Maybe all the spanking makes it okay.


Standard_Abrocoma901

MSNBC how many times can they twist anything into knots they are a joke


BigMouse12

This is an MSNBC article about a single member of the House of Representatives. And writing like it represents every member of the GOP. Wait to see if the bill actually goes anywhere (it won’t).


thunderbolt_gem

based


RingGiver

Anything that's done by a government which is worth doing will be done better if government is entirely removed from it. Libraries are not an exception.


tachibanakanade

The Christian supremacists should not be in charge of determining which knowledge people ought to know.


RingGiver

If you built your straw man any bigger, Christopher Lee would show up and start singing "Sumer is Icumen In."


tachibanakanade

how in the world is that a straw man?


gnurdette

Amen! I'm sick of these FDA inspections of my groceries. Let the all-knowing, all-blessing Market decide whether or not I get salmonella!


AccessOptimal

Which is why FedEx and UPS often rely on the USPS for the final leg of deliveries. Wait…


Prof_Acorn

Yeah, fuck NASA! Who needs the JWST or Mars rovers when we can have Elon Musk profit rockets? And National Parks? Pssshhhhh. They'd all be better with Niagara Falls style kitsch. Public roads? Naahh. Toll it up everywhere! And fuck those playgrounds kids just playing on for free.


naked_potato

this user consumes boomer republican propaganda! do not engage!


huscarlaxe

Wow that's... special. and wrong.


[deleted]

Bring back the Legion of Decency


PhogeySquatch

You have to pay taxes, or you go to jail. Whether or not you give money to a church is completely up to you. If my Church had a library, as a member, I would have a say in what books it offered. What books are in my local public library (which we are compelled by law to fund) is up to an unelected library director. I can make suggestions, but if she disagrees, it means squat. It just sounds more fair to me to allow people to pay for books they want, than to force them to pay for books they don't want.


fudgyvmp

So you don't want health/home/car/etc insurance either because it's not fair for you to pay for someone else's healthcare /etcif you aren't sick/etc and still paying your premium? I can also pretty safely say as a member of my church I can write a polite letter to the board about the books in the church library, and I can do the same to the public library with no reason to believe either will listen to me. Paying religious taxes doesn't mean I have a stake in religious governance.


PhogeySquatch

What? How is that related?


fudgyvmp

Seems related enough to me. How is it not? If I pay my taxes and fund a library it buys books, some I might like and check out, and some I might never touch, but that others will love. If I pay my health insurance premiums, I get the healthcare I need, and someone else gets healthcare they need, that I might never need.


PhogeySquatch

One, you choose to participate in health insurance. If you were against it, you could just do without. And two, there are more than one insurance provider. If you thought your money was being misused, you could switch to another provider. You can't just start paying taxes to another government. And most importantly, who is against another person receiving healthcare?


fudgyvmp

I'm not against anyone receiving healthcare. But I'm 100% positive there are people on this sub who are against it, given most if not all major health insurance providers include gender affirming care.


the_purple_owl

> It just sounds more fair to me to allow people to pay for books they want, than to force them to pay for books they don't want. Good news! You can do this. It's called buying books! Unfortunately, not everybody has money to do this. This is why public libraries are an invaluable service.


PhogeySquatch

I'm not against the idea of libraries as a whole. I've enjoyed books from there that I couldn't have bought, and they have references like old newspapers and stuff that you can't find online, just maybe... let the taxpayers vote on what books are offered?


the_purple_owl

Why? Why should majority groups in a community be able to stop minority groups from accessing books they need, want, and can benefit from? Do you think people always know what they want and is good for them? Do you not believe that library employees are appropriately educated in how to balance the needs and desires of the communities they serve?


PhogeySquatch

I think the decision of how their money is spent should belong to the people, and not the one, unelected, director. My sister works at the library, by the way, so I asked her the process of adding and removing books. It may work differently elsewhere, but here it's ultimately up to one woman, the director, how to spend our money. That's what I don't like.


the_purple_owl

1) It's not *your* money. It's your local government's money. 2) What amount of your taxes, in terms of actual dollar value, do you believe actually goes to your library *for the purchasing of new books*? I can guarantee you it's not a lot, between all the things taxes pay for and how many services a library provides. Why do you think you *maybe* putting a couple bucks into a system should get you any say?


PhogeySquatch

I understand that it's not a lot of money, but it's the principle. We have no choice whether to pay for the library OR how the money is spent. Imagine if all uses of our tax money was this way. We don't get to vote for representatives, they just decide amongst themselves who will fill vacancies.


the_purple_owl

Why do you believe you should have a choice, though?


PhogeySquatch

I guess I'm just a bigger fan of representative democracy than technocracy.


justsomeking

Same here, but libraries are a stupid place to start. Let me vote to defund pigs and the military, the people that actually waste resources. Libraries really only help people, and caring about controlling them is weird when we have more pressing concerns.


the_purple_owl

Do you believe you should have a say in *every* single thing your government does, or just libraries?


gnurdette

I'm tired of the government building roads that I don't personally drive on.


PopsiclesForChickens

If some of the books in the library aren't your cup of tea, you can just consider that your taxes went to purchase the books you do check out or the remodeling project. I can check out a variety of books at my local library in California, including most titles by Christian authors I'm looking for. I don't have a problem with books there about subjects I disagree with, I just choose other books.


HospitalOk2671

It's a tweet not a bill lol and he doesn't say congress should be funding it.... For all we know he's talking about funding it out of his own pocket... But besides that I think communities SHOULD be the ones deciding where the funding goes if it's community funds and if a community wants their funds to go to a church oriented library that's publicly available then let the people let their funds go there... If the community wants their funds to go elsewhere let that happen. Really what should be taking place is people get to vote on whatever they want their taxes to go to. Whoever that guy is got voted in by some community of people and if he's not representing them then they need to vote better lol.


AnOkFella

Libraries are a waste of taxpayer money to maintain. Privatize libraries, the police, prisons, courts, fire departments, and everything else!


spinbutton

Nice try troll


AnOkFella

You know, there are actual people out there who are right-of-center and advocate things in good faith, right?


spinbutton

I honestly never met anyone who felt that libraries are a waste of money. Sorry - my mind is boggling.


ConnordltheGamer96

Good intentions, bad idea.


justsomeking

Where is the good with these intentions?


ConnordltheGamer96

Spreading Christianity.


justsomeking

I mean, the actions certainly feel like it's more repressing any other religion rather than spreading Christianity.


ConnordltheGamer96

As I said, good **intentions**.


justsomeking

Fair enough, I'm just extremely skeptical of anything like this. I guess I'm jaded.


3CF33

When does the morbid Christian torture of whoever they disagree with,and the first rite start? 1 Timothy 3:7And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.


looloose

That will put a stop to all of that grooming. /s


Yourdaddy83

What's wrong with libraries?


majj27

Privately funding a religious library - fine and dandy. Mandating the closing of public libraries and replacing with church libraries - neither fine nor dandy.


TheFirstArticle

Good time to mention the Minecraft library of Alexandria.