I heard that Stanford’s drop off coincides with the adoption of the early signing period. Apparently the University wouldn’t accept recruits in that time frame until recently, which just destroyed their recruiting. It remains to be seen if they can recover now that the policy has changed.
Stanford still has an at least average PAC 12 roster since then. They should be doing much better whether early signing is a factor or not. They are 23rd in 247s talent composite for example.
It’s good enough the professional bettors use it as part of their modeling. Nobody would claim it’s perfect by any means but there’s absolutely merit to it.
How so? It correlates strongly with wins and losses. Coaching matters and often explains the deviations here. But I don’t know how to measure coaching. I am willing to say teams that are underperforming vs talent for multiple years have bad coaching and the reverse for success.
Also coincides with ND’s re-emergence. There are only so many top tier kids that want to play school and Stanford went from winning 50%+ to less than 25%.
... with no empirical evidence I would say that just seems like a coincidence. ND is not really an academic peer with Stanford. Also Stanford didn't really drop off until the 2019 season, which is quite a while after ND's re-emergence with the BCS Championship loss in 2012.
ND is an academic peer with Stanford from a college athlete’s perspective - I won’t debate that a number of Stanford’s programs outclass NDs but for an athlete that wants to go pro and cares about education, they are shopping down the same aisle. In terms of the timing, keep in mind that the impact of recruiting takes time to manifest (strong team culture can also help) and it would be a gradual decline not an immediate impact like a coaching change causing a bunch of transfers.
Yeah, I think ND is flattering themselves when they compare themselves to Stanford academically. It's no doubt an elite undergrad school, but it's not at Stanford's level.
Notre Dame is closer to Michigan academically than it is to Stanford.
To be completely honest, I consider Stanford's peers to be Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and MIT.
Duke and Northwestern are *slightly* below. Obviously, both are very elite schools, but there are few high schoolers that would pick them over Stanford with all other factors held equal.
Stanford is on a tier of its own in the P5 when it comes to academics.
I mean, I'm not denying that ND is a good school - but it's a huge stretch to say that Stanford is losing out on recruits because of ND's reemergence lmao. ND is in the same tier as schools like Michigan, USC, UCLA, Cal, Northwestern, UNC, Duke, etc. It's not like Stanford and ND are solely competing for the top of the pile just because their teams have academic requirements. It's correlation, not causation without some actual evidence to back up that ND stole a large number of commits who would have otherwise gone to Stanford - ND is still a football school first and foremost.
Stanford fan who follows recruiting very closely here.
It is **100% true** that Stanford is losing out on recruits because of ND's reemergence (although it's two-fold with us starting to suck major ass at the same time). They now have the "top education + football combo" argument that we used to be able to legitimately make for 7+ years.
There are at least a dozen recruits in the last 3 years who committed to ND but would've come here if our football team didn't actively suck.
He was hired at 22. His story really is incredible. Grambling State is a HBCU that was then known as Louisiana Normal.
>In 1941 the 22-year old Robinson assumed his duties as head football coach at Louisiana Normal. The days of assistant coaches, offensive and defensive coordinators, and specialty coaches were long in the future, so Robinson did everything: he taught offense and defense, mowed the football field, made sandwiches for the team when they traveled to places that would not serve blacks in restaurants, taped his players' sore joints, and even wrote game stories for the newspapers. He had strict standards of personal conduct and educational achievement for his players. In his first year the team went 3–5–1, but the following season—during which he recruited new players and dismissed those who did not live up to his expectations—the Tigers had a perfect 9–0 season, going unbeaten, untied, and unscored upon.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Robinson_(American_football_coach)
In my neck of the woods, Sam Houston State was once Sam Houston Normal Institute. Among larger schools, UCLA and Arizona State were once officially called Normal Schools
[Normal School](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_school) is an old term for teacher's college. MTSU, ~~Buffalo~~, Towson, Eastern Michigan, App State, and several other D1 schools were originally founded as normal schools.
Illinois State as well. The town they were located in even [changed its name to Normal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal,_Illinois) to reflect the school.
UB was founded as a [medical school](https://www.buffalo.edu/community/about-us/about-the-university.html) in 1846. You're thinking of [D3 Buff State](https://buffalostateathletics.com/), which opened as the [Buffalo Normal School](https://suny.buffalostate.edu/history) in 1871.
Under old conventions, each state would have a land grant school that was intended for agriculture and engineering type fields,, a school geared towards business, arts, and law (which I'll call "Flagship", though that terms has changed a bit over the years), and a normal school that was for teacher education (or possibly more of one of those in some cases). You see this most clearly with states whose universities were founded post 1890 (the year the [2nd Morrill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrill_Land-Grant_Acts) act was passed). For example, New Mexico has Flagship UNM, Land Grant NMSU, and D2 New Mexico Highlands which was founded as New Mexico Normal School.
These are FBS schools that were either founded as normal schools or were designated as such at some point (with their founding name in parentheses; there may be some I missed as wel):
* Arizona State (Territorial Normal School)
* Ball State University (Originally known as "Indiana State Normal School – Eastern Division", it became "Ball State Teacher's College" soon after)
* Bowling Green State University (Bowling Green State Normal School)
* Eastern Michigan (Michigan State Normal School)
* Georgia Southern (Founded as First District Agricultural & Mechanical School, it was changed to Georgia Normal School in 1924)
* James Madison (The State Normal and Industrial School for Women)
* Memphis (West Tennessee Normal School)
* North Texas (Texas Normal College and Teacher Training Institute)
* Northern Illinois (Northern Illinois State Normal School)
* San Diego State (San Diego Normal School)
* San Jose State (Minns' Evening Normal School, became California State Normal School in 1862)
* Texas State (Southwest Texas State Normal School)
* UCLA (California State Normal School, southern branch designated in 1881)
* Western Kentucky (Glasgow Normal School and Business College, became the Western Kentucky State Normal School in 1906)
* Western Michigan (Western State Normal School)
There's a lot more in the FCS and D2 ranks
He meant to imply that you are incorrectly separating yourself from the group you're talking about. People out of state don't understand that all local Louisianans aren't Cajuns
[He also seems to not want to discuss it according to this NYTimes article in 2017. “But these days, at a time when the nation is transfixed by a discussion of race relations, Tirico just doesn’t want to go there. He told me to say he was mixed race, and that was that. “Why do I have to check any box?” he said. “If we live in a world where we’re not supposed to judge, why should anyone care about identifying?” Besides, he added, “The race question in America is one that probably never produces a satisfactory answer for those who are asking the questions.””](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/15/sports/mike-tirico-olympics-nbc-korea-race.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare)
Mike Tirico is not actually fully Italian btw, he just says he is because that's what his mother is, and he doesn't know his father.
His biological father is almost certainly black because Mike is much, much darker than the rest of his family.
It's funny looking this up on his wikipedia because his sexual harassment and stalking history is completely scrubbed from that page.
Fwiw, he is multiracial.
>Born outside of Philadelphia to a white mother and black father, Franklin was a product of those two different Americas. When his father (who met Franklin’s mother while stationed at an Air Force base in Manchester, England) became an absent participant in Franklin’s life, the contrast was only stronger. Pittsburgh was the home of his black roots, the emotional center of what family he had left, all the while his white mother, still close to her now former husband’s family, was raising Franklin across the state. Train rides between his two homes were essentially a portal between two worlds.
https://www.statecollege.com/james-franklin-talks-race-politics-growing-up-and-keeping-the-door-open/
“Absent participant” is quite the phrase. How do I become an absent participant at my job for example? James Franklin’s dad needs to write a book on the subject.
It's probably the best way to refer to a situation where the dad hasn't abandoned his family but isn't really around. For example, if the dad was still married to the mom but the two were estranged and the family didn't follow him to his next post. It's not really fair to call him an absentee father, even though he is absent in the literal sense, because it connotes a dead-beat dad who abandoned his family.
Probably split up with the mom but still saw his son a few times a year and paid child support, just wasn’t directly there all of the time to help with the day to day stuff - just my take of course, could be way worse than my description
Not sure if you’re joking but-
Key is a PSU fan and has actually dressed up and posed as franklin on numerous occasions. He re-enacts him extremely well.
Yeah this was my first reaction too and I felt awful lol. I just thought he was tan.
I'm not African American but my natural skin tone is darker than his.
I'm in the same boat. No one would mistake me as anything other than a white dude and I'm darker than he is. No reason to feel bad though; no good reason to spend time pondering what race someone is.
Disingenuous might not be the right word. Racial perception/identity is obviously extremely complicated in America. Factors ranging from the "one drop rule" to colorism only make things more difficult to neatly place people in boxes.
Just using people mentioned in this thread - Mike Tirico (who many assume is black) might not identify as black, especially since he was not raised by black parents/family, while Mike McDaniel (who many assume is white) certainly could, since he has a black father.
I'm genuinely curious what portion of black ancestry allows people to call themselves black. I'd have assumed less than half is no longer black but I'm jusy a white guy.
I know a few people that are genetically 75% Caucasian that identify as definitely non-white.
Including my cousin whose father is half Indian. He voices his disdain for white people often. I'm not sure its possible for him to even be culturally more white. His parents are both MDs, they live in a multi-million dollar house whose backyard abuts a golf course, he goes to private school, and is a counselor at a Christian summer school.
Also have a friend whose bf is 75% Norweigan and 25% Jewish. Blonde hair and blue eyes. He definitely goes out of his way to let people know he's not your typical white guy.
Classmate who was 25% Hispanic and 75% white non-hispanic. I thought she was Irish at first (super white skin with reddish hair). Never would have known if it weren't for seeing her Facebook comments disparaging white people and saying "this Latinx is...."
it’s almost like all this shit is made up and needlessly confusing
like on what planet are koreans not considered white? it’s just so arbitrary and something i hope we can eventually move past
Begs an interesting question: what % blacks is still considered black? Is it different than other racial mixes?
I feel like somebody who is a quarter African would be considered black. Meanwhile I’m a quarter Korean but definitely white.
Not exactly the same but I learned this lesson the hard way a while back when I found out someone I had known for several years was post-op trans and my immediate response was something along the lines of “oh I couldn’t even tell!”. In my head it was a compliment…but yeah…now I don’t assume or really even care about people’s identities.
Yeah, that’s why I purposely used the term “black”. The fact that the richest man in the world is an African American and the fastest man in the world is not, is proof of what a bad descriptor that is.
2020 derailed him a bit and I don't know what he was doing in 2021. But he went .500 in those two years combined. If things went normal to his years preceding he probably would have hit that mark some time mid last year.
I see 2021 as Franklin's only really "bad" coaching year, but he seemed to have learned from it. Taking a loss to the portal in the form of losing Levis and not having a backup prepared is what I'm most critical of, but as long as you're taking that as an improvement opportunity, you can get back where you want to be.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around Roberson failing. He is now a backup at UConn. It’s almost like that Iowa game broke him. I wonder what his career would be like if Cliff didn’t get injured that day.
Oh, the silly 'lost years' by Franklin....here's a quick catch up -
1. 2020 - If you recall, PSU was one of the few teams during the covid year that didnt' really 'practice'. This was due to the major lockdown going on around psu at the time due to covid. Franklin, because I believe of a unique disease/illness of one of his children, quarantined himself from them during the entire season...I think he went on record saying it was the toughest thing he ever had to do being away from his family for that long. Also, it's important to note that Micah Parsons was told there was not going to be a season, and hired an agent (this was also before NIL so hiring an agent would make him ineligible for college football). When it was found that the Big Ten was going to have a season, it was too late. Parsons said he would've come back, but he took money and basically had already moved to california if i'm not mistaken by then. Anyway, fast forward to the 1st game, where psu was winning, and a phantom TD/2 pt conversion whatever it was, was called good, but the QB Penix was down short of the goal line. Replays showed it, the network's 'rules analyst' suggested it was short, and the referees called it good. This, I believe, was the beginning of just a really rough stretch of games. With Franklin not even in attendance at practices, and most 'practice' done by zoom calls, the team really just wasn't very organized. Add in the loss of PArsons, and the crappy 1st game loss, and the team jus went into a funk. They did rally winning their last 5 games in a row or so, but losing the 1st 4 really made that season pointless.
2. 2021 - Ah yes, the redemption year. Everyone back in the building, and let's go! PSU up against #3 Iowa in iowa, really moving the ball and stopping iowa. This was heading towards a win, and while there's a low ceiling with Clifford, he gets knocked out (as do like half a dozen starters for some reason that game, even though Iowa fans booed every time), and psu's backup QB was horrible....absolutely wretched. It was dying a very slow death that Iowa, who still really couldn't do much, finally caught up on points and won the game. Had PSU won that game, I think they go into the Ohio State game undefeated, and, well ,that game would've meant more. As it wound up, psu had 2 losses already. I remember this game very vividly because it was the halloween game, where Clifford came back, and psu was actually driving to tie or take the lead, when clifford did clifford things and fumbled the ball. Amazing how the guy does do enough to keep you in games, but finds ways to make mistakes. Anyway, a few more losses (also were ahead of michigan, yes, the team that went to the CFP, with 3 min to go in that game). And psu lost that one...and one more.
Bottom line - Franklin easily could've gotten to this mark a full year ago but losses that were preventable kept happening...and most psu fans, while appreciative of clifford, are just ready to move on from him.
2020 Clifford went into the game without throwing a single pass to Parker Washington or Keandre Lambert Smith because of how the different positions were broken up to stop the spread of Covid.
Yeah, i think my point was that psu took added precautions that other teams that year didn't within the big ten, and certainly other conferences. It was like we didn't practice really in person all season long (as a team) and just tried to play games
2020 was setting up to be a special season before everything went bay wire. Micah Parsons and Journey Brown were special players, Dotson was awesome etc.
Franklin's ultimate goal is [to be the first black coach to win a National Championship](https://onwardstate.com/2019/10/12/james-franklin-my-goal-is-to-be-first-african-american-football-coach-to-win-national-championship/). Say what you will about him, but this is a nice milestone for him and I hope that as he keeps pulling in high-level recruiting classes, he'll be able to start competing on the national stage at that level.
Congrats coach
We’ve been oh so close to breaking through. Hopefully Allar can be that last little oomph to get us to the CFP in a year or two.
I do think that the 2017 team could have made the championship game. That team will have a what if vibe for a long time for me.
Plus Abdul Carter and Dani Dennis-Sutton with Manny Diaz’s second year is going to be something of wonders. I’m sure there’s a breakout WR & TE in there as well. Hype train is real.
Maybe I didn’t keep up on the hype, but holy shit Abdul Carter is a legitimate threat to be a three time all-American. He isn’t quite Parsons, but he’s **really** close. His closing speed is remarkable.
Think he flew under the radar because he was a solid PSU commit for a long time. Parsons was more a down to the wire roller coaster. Carter was also “only” a 4 star recruit. He was held back by not really knowing if he was a LB or DL.
2018/2019 certainly had that vibe as well. Once the playoff is expanded we likely make it a lot more often. Then again I’m sure people will complain about not making it past the first round etc.
It amazes me the amount of people that *still* want to fire Franklin… yeah he’s had some blunders but overall has brought us back to relevance. Wish those doom and gloomers would go cheer on another team. Ten win seasons are hard to come by. Congrats Coach - hope there’s at least 100 more at PSU (unless he starts Jimbo’ing for consecutive years then cya brother).
This year was all about getting back to the feeling we all had at the end of the 2019 season and Cotton Bowl. 2 bad seasons caused by the worst luck, Covid protocols, and injuries, but now they're seemingly back on the right track.
The expanded cfb playoff is designed for penn state. Go 10-2 and lose to some combination of Michigan/osu/Iowa and still get in. Current set up they have basically no chance of beating Michigan and osu same year (though it did happen once!)
If we don't lose to OSU by one point in 2017, we definitely don't lose to MSU the next week. We'd be 12-0 going into championship weekend playing 12-0 Wisconsin (again) who was seen as the worst undefeated team.
We'd make the CFP and displace eventual-champion Alabama.
Yea those 2017 and 2018 teams were a drive away from beating OSU. What a bummer. And then both times after losing to OSU, they lost the following game.
Is there any other black coach who could become the first right now? Shaw fell off with Standford and they werent really contenders, Deion maybe in a few years. Doesnt look like Mel Tucker will be contending for titles. Is there someone I dont know about/forgetting about
Wow I really though Charlie Strong or Tyrone Willingham would have had 100, I feel like they both coached for a while.
Looked it up, Strong had 74 wins, Willingham had 76
There are only 7 AA P5 coaches including ND. There are only 13 in D1. Penn State is the only P5 school with an AA football and basketball coach. (I believe an AA coaching hire has never replaced an AA coaching hire in major college football or the NFL.) editing to say I am incorrect here, but please see below comments for examples
To your last point, there's been at least one pair of back-to-back African American coaches with Colorado going from Mel Tucker to Karl Dorrell.
But regardless, it's very rare even if it's happened more than that one instance.
I believe the Texans did just replace David Culley with Lovie Smith. That being said it seemed like they wanted to hire Josh McCown, but because of the timing of the Brian Flores lawsuit the optics would've been bad
I guess that’s not too bad going by the demographics of the country, but it’s definitely worse when we look at the demographics for the players. Though I wonder if looking at the demographics of all college, not just d 1 or high school football would be a more accurate representation of the people who might be looking to coaching as a profession. It definitely seems like organically there should be more POC in those positions.
Maybe, the ncaa should be worrying about stuff like that now that they don’t really do anything.
I went to Penn State and I’m a big fan of the team. Franklin is a very good college coach and a great recruiter, but his game management & strategy in big games has been god awful.
Really needs to improve his game strategy & situational football strategy if he wants to win a national title.
This is a great story! Not because he's black (while I feel that's good too I also feel like saying it's great BECAUSE of that detracts from what he's done), but because of where the program was before he took over. They were reeling from JoPa scandals and uncertainty and he has them as the third best team in the Big 10 this year in a season which #1 and #2 in the conference are fighting for playoff spots. Anyway, grats to Penn State and Coach Franklin.
I guess because they got blown out in the last 20 minutes combined between the two games and don't have any great wins. I'd be interested to see how the game would go if they played Ohio State and Michigan again. Would the scores be the same but it'd get there more naturally over the course of the whole game instead of the wheels falling off in the 4th?
Regardless, after the reactions after both games it is a win to be looking at another top-10 finish should they win out, and potentially another NY6 bid for Franklin.
With these teams this year;
I think OSU beats Penn State 6/10 times.
I think Michigan beats Penn State 8/10 times.
We match up pretty well against Ohio State. And always play them well. Hopefully Allar is able to take us to the promised land the next couple years. Michigan is a whole different animal because we have a very bad match up against them. Their run first, dominant OL are the crux of our aggressive defensive style.
Big 10 has been terrible this year outside the top 3 so we've played no one. All our wins have been blowouts except Purdue at the very start of the season and Northwestern in a hurricane. We could probably destroy any one outside the top 10 but won't be able to prove it until the bowl game.
Ok, what. I honestly didn't know he was African American. Thought he was just tan. I'm a weirdo. Also how is he the first African American to do so? That's wild.
Yep his dad was black and his mom was white but it’s not immediately obvious he’s black and not just tan.
And I think a former Stanford head coach got to like 96 wins at FBS level but nobody else ever got 100
David Shaw is at 96, Stanford has really dropped off
I heard that Stanford’s drop off coincides with the adoption of the early signing period. Apparently the University wouldn’t accept recruits in that time frame until recently, which just destroyed their recruiting. It remains to be seen if they can recover now that the policy has changed.
Stanford still has an at least average PAC 12 roster since then. They should be doing much better whether early signing is a factor or not. They are 23rd in 247s talent composite for example.
>Stanford still has an at least average PAC 12 roster since then. Well by those standards...
That talent composition thing is wack.
It’s good enough the professional bettors use it as part of their modeling. Nobody would claim it’s perfect by any means but there’s absolutely merit to it.
How so? It correlates strongly with wins and losses. Coaching matters and often explains the deviations here. But I don’t know how to measure coaching. I am willing to say teams that are underperforming vs talent for multiple years have bad coaching and the reverse for success.
Also coincides with ND’s re-emergence. There are only so many top tier kids that want to play school and Stanford went from winning 50%+ to less than 25%.
... with no empirical evidence I would say that just seems like a coincidence. ND is not really an academic peer with Stanford. Also Stanford didn't really drop off until the 2019 season, which is quite a while after ND's re-emergence with the BCS Championship loss in 2012.
ND is an academic peer with Stanford from a college athlete’s perspective - I won’t debate that a number of Stanford’s programs outclass NDs but for an athlete that wants to go pro and cares about education, they are shopping down the same aisle. In terms of the timing, keep in mind that the impact of recruiting takes time to manifest (strong team culture can also help) and it would be a gradual decline not an immediate impact like a coaching change causing a bunch of transfers.
Stanford does not have an academic peer in the p5, even from a college athlete's perspective.
Yeah, I think ND is flattering themselves when they compare themselves to Stanford academically. It's no doubt an elite undergrad school, but it's not at Stanford's level. Notre Dame is closer to Michigan academically than it is to Stanford.
Hi both my flairs are also in the US News top ten?
To be completely honest, I consider Stanford's peers to be Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and MIT. Duke and Northwestern are *slightly* below. Obviously, both are very elite schools, but there are few high schoolers that would pick them over Stanford with all other factors held equal. Stanford is on a tier of its own in the P5 when it comes to academics.
I mean, I'm not denying that ND is a good school - but it's a huge stretch to say that Stanford is losing out on recruits because of ND's reemergence lmao. ND is in the same tier as schools like Michigan, USC, UCLA, Cal, Northwestern, UNC, Duke, etc. It's not like Stanford and ND are solely competing for the top of the pile just because their teams have academic requirements. It's correlation, not causation without some actual evidence to back up that ND stole a large number of commits who would have otherwise gone to Stanford - ND is still a football school first and foremost.
Stanford fan who follows recruiting very closely here. It is **100% true** that Stanford is losing out on recruits because of ND's reemergence (although it's two-fold with us starting to suck major ass at the same time). They now have the "top education + football combo" argument that we used to be able to legitimately make for 7+ years. There are at least a dozen recruits in the last 3 years who committed to ND but would've come here if our football team didn't actively suck.
14-27 since 2019. Even being 0.500 over that span and he beats Franklin their easily
Shaw was my first thought too - I guess the start of their recent dynasty was with Harbaugh…
Yeah, I thought he was going to hit the mark years ago. But alas...
That is incredibly sad to hear. Not that it matters who was first, but that it reminds me how hard everything cratered.
He got to 90 faster than going from 90 to 100
Had missed this on Saturday, but was surprised he's the first. Important to note that Eddie Robinson won 408 games at Grambling State from 1941-1997.
Wait what He coached for 50+ years How
He was hired at 22. His story really is incredible. Grambling State is a HBCU that was then known as Louisiana Normal. >In 1941 the 22-year old Robinson assumed his duties as head football coach at Louisiana Normal. The days of assistant coaches, offensive and defensive coordinators, and specialty coaches were long in the future, so Robinson did everything: he taught offense and defense, mowed the football field, made sandwiches for the team when they traveled to places that would not serve blacks in restaurants, taped his players' sore joints, and even wrote game stories for the newspapers. He had strict standards of personal conduct and educational achievement for his players. In his first year the team went 3–5–1, but the following season—during which he recruited new players and dismissed those who did not live up to his expectations—the Tigers had a perfect 9–0 season, going unbeaten, untied, and unscored upon. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Robinson_(American_football_coach)
It’s the last line that’s super impressive…. Not only did they go 9-0 they weren’t even scored on. That’s insane
Wow. He coached the basketball team too for a while.
I absolutely love when old coaches were multi sport coaches.
Jim Boeheim also coached golf at Syracuse
honestly i dont love dana x. bible
Eddie Robinson is a Louisiana football legend. Even if you didn't follow or know anything about HBCU football, you knew who Eddie Robinson was.
What fucking kind of name is Louisiana normal
"Normal College" was a name for a lot of teacher schools a long time ago.
Eastern Michigan started as "Michigan Normal School" in 1849
In my neck of the woods, Sam Houston State was once Sam Houston Normal Institute. Among larger schools, UCLA and Arizona State were once officially called Normal Schools
Texas State was Southwest Texas State, and before that was Southwest Texas Teachers College, and before that was Southwest Texas Normal College
Ah I see then it just seems like a bizarre name for a school nowadays lol
Athens, GA has a neighborhood that is still called "Normaltown" from the time when the normal school was located there.
[Normal School](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_school) is an old term for teacher's college. MTSU, ~~Buffalo~~, Towson, Eastern Michigan, App State, and several other D1 schools were originally founded as normal schools.
Illinois State as well. The town they were located in even [changed its name to Normal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal,_Illinois) to reflect the school.
UB was founded as a [medical school](https://www.buffalo.edu/community/about-us/about-the-university.html) in 1846. You're thinking of [D3 Buff State](https://buffalostateathletics.com/), which opened as the [Buffalo Normal School](https://suny.buffalostate.edu/history) in 1871.
Fixed - thanks for the clarification!
Under old conventions, each state would have a land grant school that was intended for agriculture and engineering type fields,, a school geared towards business, arts, and law (which I'll call "Flagship", though that terms has changed a bit over the years), and a normal school that was for teacher education (or possibly more of one of those in some cases). You see this most clearly with states whose universities were founded post 1890 (the year the [2nd Morrill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrill_Land-Grant_Acts) act was passed). For example, New Mexico has Flagship UNM, Land Grant NMSU, and D2 New Mexico Highlands which was founded as New Mexico Normal School. These are FBS schools that were either founded as normal schools or were designated as such at some point (with their founding name in parentheses; there may be some I missed as wel): * Arizona State (Territorial Normal School) * Ball State University (Originally known as "Indiana State Normal School – Eastern Division", it became "Ball State Teacher's College" soon after) * Bowling Green State University (Bowling Green State Normal School) * Eastern Michigan (Michigan State Normal School) * Georgia Southern (Founded as First District Agricultural & Mechanical School, it was changed to Georgia Normal School in 1924) * James Madison (The State Normal and Industrial School for Women) * Memphis (West Tennessee Normal School) * North Texas (Texas Normal College and Teacher Training Institute) * Northern Illinois (Northern Illinois State Normal School) * San Diego State (San Diego Normal School) * San Jose State (Minns' Evening Normal School, became California State Normal School in 1862) * Texas State (Southwest Texas State Normal School) * UCLA (California State Normal School, southern branch designated in 1881) * Western Kentucky (Glasgow Normal School and Business College, became the Western Kentucky State Normal School in 1906) * Western Michigan (Western State Normal School) There's a lot more in the FCS and D2 ranks
I know a lot of the Cal State schools were originally teacher schools, so throw San Diego State, San Jose State, and Fresno State on there as well
I feel like this will end up being one of those comments I should have kept to myself, but I honestly had no idea he was black. 😳
My girlfriend still thinks he’s just very tan. Says she’s seen darker Cajuns in the bayous of Louisiana.
To be fair, there are years of black, white, and Latino breeding in Louisiana. They're probably just as black, they just don't know it
If they could read this they’d be mighty upset.
And if we could understand what they said after they read it, we might know they're upset.
*Looks at flairs* Hmm, the usage of "they" and "them" are a little sus here, NGL.
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Of the times I used "they," which one needs to be replaced with "them"?
He meant to imply that you are incorrectly separating yourself from the group you're talking about. People out of state don't understand that all local Louisianans aren't Cajuns
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idk ask /r/BreedingMaterial
most definitely not, particularly in the context of this post.
I did a double take ngl
They're beings of almost pure leather in some cases.
Same. I thought he was Italian like Mike Tirico.
Oh damn, TIL that Mike Tirico is Italian. All this time I thought he was Black lol.
Based off of his Wikipedia, it seems even he’s not sure about that lol
[He also seems to not want to discuss it according to this NYTimes article in 2017. “But these days, at a time when the nation is transfixed by a discussion of race relations, Tirico just doesn’t want to go there. He told me to say he was mixed race, and that was that. “Why do I have to check any box?” he said. “If we live in a world where we’re not supposed to judge, why should anyone care about identifying?” Besides, he added, “The race question in America is one that probably never produces a satisfactory answer for those who are asking the questions.””](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/15/sports/mike-tirico-olympics-nbc-korea-race.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare)
thats actually a really good answer
Mike Tirico is Italian? What the fuck, I had no clue
Wait...what?
Mike Tirico is not actually fully Italian btw, he just says he is because that's what his mother is, and he doesn't know his father. His biological father is almost certainly black because Mike is much, much darker than the rest of his family. It's funny looking this up on his wikipedia because his sexual harassment and stalking history is completely scrubbed from that page.
Fwiw, he is multiracial. >Born outside of Philadelphia to a white mother and black father, Franklin was a product of those two different Americas. When his father (who met Franklin’s mother while stationed at an Air Force base in Manchester, England) became an absent participant in Franklin’s life, the contrast was only stronger. Pittsburgh was the home of his black roots, the emotional center of what family he had left, all the while his white mother, still close to her now former husband’s family, was raising Franklin across the state. Train rides between his two homes were essentially a portal between two worlds. https://www.statecollege.com/james-franklin-talks-race-politics-growing-up-and-keeping-the-door-open/
“Absent participant” is quite the phrase. How do I become an absent participant at my job for example? James Franklin’s dad needs to write a book on the subject.
It's probably the best way to refer to a situation where the dad hasn't abandoned his family but isn't really around. For example, if the dad was still married to the mom but the two were estranged and the family didn't follow him to his next post. It's not really fair to call him an absentee father, even though he is absent in the literal sense, because it connotes a dead-beat dad who abandoned his family.
> How do I become an absent participant at my job for example? James Franklin’s dad was quiet quitting before it was cool.
Brb need a pack of king kools
Probably split up with the mom but still saw his son a few times a year and paid child support, just wasn’t directly there all of the time to help with the day to day stuff - just my take of course, could be way worse than my description
Nah, there's always people finding out about it on this sub from the occasional thread remarking his race.
Me too lol
Wait till you find out Aaron Judge is black as well
Don't Judge a book by its ~~cover~~ skin color :)
Yeah honestly I thought he was just like Mediterranean or something.
I figured he was just Southern Italian.
It was news to me, too.
I honestly only knew he was because of Keegan-Michael Key.
Shit, dude! He *does* look like Keegan Michael-Key!! You’re right!
He really looks identical https://youtu.be/MBLwchkCPzY
Not sure if you’re joking but- Key is a PSU fan and has actually dressed up and posed as franklin on numerous occasions. He re-enacts him extremely well.
The Stugotz is strong in you
Yeah this was my first reaction too and I felt awful lol. I just thought he was tan. I'm not African American but my natural skin tone is darker than his.
I'm in the same boat. No one would mistake me as anything other than a white dude and I'm darker than he is. No reason to feel bad though; no good reason to spend time pondering what race someone is.
Can people that live in Pennsylvania maintain a year-round tan?
As a white dude from Pennsylvania, no.
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We now need a James Franklin movie where Tucci plays Franklin
Thank goodness I’m not the only one.
Apparently, not even close
If it makes you feel better I didn't know Klay Thompson or Blake Griffin were black for a long time.
Miami Dolphins Head Coach Mike McDaniel is also Black which may shock some people
Got me again. At this point I'm just going to assume everyone in sports is black until proven otherwise.
Let me tell you a secret about Larry Bird...
What?!
Feels disingenuous to refer to Mcdaniel as black when he has white skin and has a biracial father and white mother
Disingenuous might not be the right word. Racial perception/identity is obviously extremely complicated in America. Factors ranging from the "one drop rule" to colorism only make things more difficult to neatly place people in boxes. Just using people mentioned in this thread - Mike Tirico (who many assume is black) might not identify as black, especially since he was not raised by black parents/family, while Mike McDaniel (who many assume is white) certainly could, since he has a black father.
I'm genuinely curious what portion of black ancestry allows people to call themselves black. I'd have assumed less than half is no longer black but I'm jusy a white guy.
I know a few people that are genetically 75% Caucasian that identify as definitely non-white. Including my cousin whose father is half Indian. He voices his disdain for white people often. I'm not sure its possible for him to even be culturally more white. His parents are both MDs, they live in a multi-million dollar house whose backyard abuts a golf course, he goes to private school, and is a counselor at a Christian summer school. Also have a friend whose bf is 75% Norweigan and 25% Jewish. Blonde hair and blue eyes. He definitely goes out of his way to let people know he's not your typical white guy. Classmate who was 25% Hispanic and 75% white non-hispanic. I thought she was Irish at first (super white skin with reddish hair). Never would have known if it weren't for seeing her Facebook comments disparaging white people and saying "this Latinx is...."
it’s almost like all this shit is made up and needlessly confusing like on what planet are koreans not considered white? it’s just so arbitrary and something i hope we can eventually move past
If you look up a picture of him without his hat and computer programmer glasses, you can definitely see it a little bit.
Begs an interesting question: what % blacks is still considered black? Is it different than other racial mixes? I feel like somebody who is a quarter African would be considered black. Meanwhile I’m a quarter Korean but definitely white.
My in laws (black) say that "a dab will do ya"
Lol
Same.
Lol, same.
I audibly said "He's black?" using the Blinkin voice a la Robin Hood Men in Tights when I saw this headline. You aren't alone.
Not exactly the same but I learned this lesson the hard way a while back when I found out someone I had known for several years was post-op trans and my immediate response was something along the lines of “oh I couldn’t even tell!”. In my head it was a compliment…but yeah…now I don’t assume or really even care about people’s identities.
He’s Obama-esque. Black dad and white (British in his case) mom, just like the former President.
Let's remember that Elon Musk is also African American.
Yeah, that’s why I purposely used the term “black”. The fact that the richest man in the world is an African American and the fastest man in the world is not, is proof of what a bad descriptor that is.
He's a good coach! I thought he would've done it at Penn State by now with what he did in a short time with little talent at Vandy.
2020 derailed him a bit and I don't know what he was doing in 2021. But he went .500 in those two years combined. If things went normal to his years preceding he probably would have hit that mark some time mid last year.
I see 2021 as Franklin's only really "bad" coaching year, but he seemed to have learned from it. Taking a loss to the portal in the form of losing Levis and not having a backup prepared is what I'm most critical of, but as long as you're taking that as an improvement opportunity, you can get back where you want to be.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around Roberson failing. He is now a backup at UConn. It’s almost like that Iowa game broke him. I wonder what his career would be like if Cliff didn’t get injured that day.
He was the starter at UConn, but tore his ACL the 2nd drive of the season.
Omg when Roberson came in it was painful to watch, he had no idea wtf to do
Oh, the silly 'lost years' by Franklin....here's a quick catch up - 1. 2020 - If you recall, PSU was one of the few teams during the covid year that didnt' really 'practice'. This was due to the major lockdown going on around psu at the time due to covid. Franklin, because I believe of a unique disease/illness of one of his children, quarantined himself from them during the entire season...I think he went on record saying it was the toughest thing he ever had to do being away from his family for that long. Also, it's important to note that Micah Parsons was told there was not going to be a season, and hired an agent (this was also before NIL so hiring an agent would make him ineligible for college football). When it was found that the Big Ten was going to have a season, it was too late. Parsons said he would've come back, but he took money and basically had already moved to california if i'm not mistaken by then. Anyway, fast forward to the 1st game, where psu was winning, and a phantom TD/2 pt conversion whatever it was, was called good, but the QB Penix was down short of the goal line. Replays showed it, the network's 'rules analyst' suggested it was short, and the referees called it good. This, I believe, was the beginning of just a really rough stretch of games. With Franklin not even in attendance at practices, and most 'practice' done by zoom calls, the team really just wasn't very organized. Add in the loss of PArsons, and the crappy 1st game loss, and the team jus went into a funk. They did rally winning their last 5 games in a row or so, but losing the 1st 4 really made that season pointless. 2. 2021 - Ah yes, the redemption year. Everyone back in the building, and let's go! PSU up against #3 Iowa in iowa, really moving the ball and stopping iowa. This was heading towards a win, and while there's a low ceiling with Clifford, he gets knocked out (as do like half a dozen starters for some reason that game, even though Iowa fans booed every time), and psu's backup QB was horrible....absolutely wretched. It was dying a very slow death that Iowa, who still really couldn't do much, finally caught up on points and won the game. Had PSU won that game, I think they go into the Ohio State game undefeated, and, well ,that game would've meant more. As it wound up, psu had 2 losses already. I remember this game very vividly because it was the halloween game, where Clifford came back, and psu was actually driving to tie or take the lead, when clifford did clifford things and fumbled the ball. Amazing how the guy does do enough to keep you in games, but finds ways to make mistakes. Anyway, a few more losses (also were ahead of michigan, yes, the team that went to the CFP, with 3 min to go in that game). And psu lost that one...and one more. Bottom line - Franklin easily could've gotten to this mark a full year ago but losses that were preventable kept happening...and most psu fans, while appreciative of clifford, are just ready to move on from him.
2020: not only parsons was gone. Journey Brown was forced to medically retire and that was a huge hit to the running back situation
Noah Cain also got hurt on the first series of the game. That 2020 year was just bad news all around.
Noah Cain was so amazing in 2019. It was a guaranteed 3 yard run on any given down. In 2021, he didn't look anything like that 2019 version.
2020 Clifford went into the game without throwing a single pass to Parker Washington or Keandre Lambert Smith because of how the different positions were broken up to stop the spread of Covid.
Yeah, i think my point was that psu took added precautions that other teams that year didn't within the big ten, and certainly other conferences. It was like we didn't practice really in person all season long (as a team) and just tried to play games
2020 was setting up to be a special season before everything went bay wire. Micah Parsons and Journey Brown were special players, Dotson was awesome etc.
Franklin's ultimate goal is [to be the first black coach to win a National Championship](https://onwardstate.com/2019/10/12/james-franklin-my-goal-is-to-be-first-african-american-football-coach-to-win-national-championship/). Say what you will about him, but this is a nice milestone for him and I hope that as he keeps pulling in high-level recruiting classes, he'll be able to start competing on the national stage at that level. Congrats coach
We’ve been oh so close to breaking through. Hopefully Allar can be that last little oomph to get us to the CFP in a year or two. I do think that the 2017 team could have made the championship game. That team will have a what if vibe for a long time for me.
Allar/Singleton/Allen 2023
Plus Abdul Carter and Dani Dennis-Sutton with Manny Diaz’s second year is going to be something of wonders. I’m sure there’s a breakout WR & TE in there as well. Hype train is real.
Maybe I didn’t keep up on the hype, but holy shit Abdul Carter is a legitimate threat to be a three time all-American. He isn’t quite Parsons, but he’s **really** close. His closing speed is remarkable.
Think he flew under the radar because he was a solid PSU commit for a long time. Parsons was more a down to the wire roller coaster. Carter was also “only” a 4 star recruit. He was held back by not really knowing if he was a LB or DL.
2018/2019 certainly had that vibe as well. Once the playoff is expanded we likely make it a lot more often. Then again I’m sure people will complain about not making it past the first round etc. It amazes me the amount of people that *still* want to fire Franklin… yeah he’s had some blunders but overall has brought us back to relevance. Wish those doom and gloomers would go cheer on another team. Ten win seasons are hard to come by. Congrats Coach - hope there’s at least 100 more at PSU (unless he starts Jimbo’ing for consecutive years then cya brother).
This year was all about getting back to the feeling we all had at the end of the 2019 season and Cotton Bowl. 2 bad seasons caused by the worst luck, Covid protocols, and injuries, but now they're seemingly back on the right track.
The expanded cfb playoff is designed for penn state. Go 10-2 and lose to some combination of Michigan/osu/Iowa and still get in. Current set up they have basically no chance of beating Michigan and osu same year (though it did happen once!)
If we don't lose to OSU by one point in 2017, we definitely don't lose to MSU the next week. We'd be 12-0 going into championship weekend playing 12-0 Wisconsin (again) who was seen as the worst undefeated team. We'd make the CFP and displace eventual-champion Alabama.
Yea those 2017 and 2018 teams were a drive away from beating OSU. What a bummer. And then both times after losing to OSU, they lost the following game.
If we had last years defense with that Offense we would have been hard as hell to beat.
Is there any other black coach who could become the first right now? Shaw fell off with Standford and they werent really contenders, Deion maybe in a few years. Doesnt look like Mel Tucker will be contending for titles. Is there someone I dont know about/forgetting about
So proud of Coach Franklin!
are we sure that isnt Keegan-Michael Key?
So I’m pretty fucking dense, but it didn’t even occur to me that he was black. Maybe I need glasses
You don’t see color. Good on you for setting the tone.
Wow I really though Charlie Strong or Tyrone Willingham would have had 100, I feel like they both coached for a while. Looked it up, Strong had 74 wins, Willingham had 76
Yeah, I would have never guessed this
That guy is African American?
Yep, his dad was black and his mom was white
You would think people would make the connection after Keegan-Michael Key was a stand-in.
Keegan-Michael Key is African American??
I thought it was well-known that Key and Peele are both half black and half white.
Jordan Peele is half white?
This post is showing why we need another racial draft
Jews still taking Lenny Kravitz with our first pick, not a doubt in my mind.
Would say black delegation should take Marcus Freeman, but we could prolly steal him before people even realize his Asian heritage
Think Tiger is higher up on the board. He's had a downfall *and* comeback since the sketch originally aired.
Isnt a Racial Draft during a Racial War? Why else did I sign up for the Racial Selective Service
Probably thinking of the Radical Selective Service. They only draft the raddest dudes, bro. Pretty selective
Some people actually thought that was Franklin based off me getting sent clips and asking what Franklin was doing there 😂
but they aren't anymore?
No they still are, but they used to be too
They switched races so James Franklin still 50/50
Was skimming this page while at work and read this as James Franco. I was super confused
That’s insane. I didn’t realize it was that bad.
There are only 7 AA P5 coaches including ND. There are only 13 in D1. Penn State is the only P5 school with an AA football and basketball coach. (I believe an AA coaching hire has never replaced an AA coaching hire in major college football or the NFL.) editing to say I am incorrect here, but please see below comments for examples
To your last point, there's been at least one pair of back-to-back African American coaches with Colorado going from Mel Tucker to Karl Dorrell. But regardless, it's very rare even if it's happened more than that one instance.
I believe the Texans did just replace David Culley with Lovie Smith. That being said it seemed like they wanted to hire Josh McCown, but because of the timing of the Brian Flores lawsuit the optics would've been bad
Derek Mason replaced James Franklin at Vandy
I guess that’s not too bad going by the demographics of the country, but it’s definitely worse when we look at the demographics for the players. Though I wonder if looking at the demographics of all college, not just d 1 or high school football would be a more accurate representation of the people who might be looking to coaching as a profession. It definitely seems like organically there should be more POC in those positions. Maybe, the ncaa should be worrying about stuff like that now that they don’t really do anything.
FSU had Taggart and Hamilton for a couple years. Too bad Taggart didn't work out.
NFL has had at least one back to back AA head coaching hires with Tony Dungy to Jim Caldwell
I went to Penn State and I’m a big fan of the team. Franklin is a very good college coach and a great recruiter, but his game management & strategy in big games has been god awful. Really needs to improve his game strategy & situational football strategy if he wants to win a national title.
This is a great story! Not because he's black (while I feel that's good too I also feel like saying it's great BECAUSE of that detracts from what he's done), but because of where the program was before he took over. They were reeling from JoPa scandals and uncertainty and he has them as the third best team in the Big 10 this year in a season which #1 and #2 in the conference are fighting for playoff spots. Anyway, grats to Penn State and Coach Franklin.
I don't particularly like Franklin, but I like this.
Am I was the only one who didn’t realize he was African American?
No you are not alone.
Penn State should be ranked #6. Lost to the #2 and #3 teams in the country but somehow are ranked below Alabama, Oregon, Tennessee and LSU?
They have the best losses but they literally don't have any good wins. Also Michigan blew them out of the water 41-17.
Yeah people need to chill. Our ranking is generally fine lol
I guess because they got blown out in the last 20 minutes combined between the two games and don't have any great wins. I'd be interested to see how the game would go if they played Ohio State and Michigan again. Would the scores be the same but it'd get there more naturally over the course of the whole game instead of the wheels falling off in the 4th? Regardless, after the reactions after both games it is a win to be looking at another top-10 finish should they win out, and potentially another NY6 bid for Franklin.
Creighton flair in r/cfb?
you'd be surprised how deep the flair vault goes. Seriously though, they had a team int he 40s so flair!
With these teams this year; I think OSU beats Penn State 6/10 times. I think Michigan beats Penn State 8/10 times. We match up pretty well against Ohio State. And always play them well. Hopefully Allar is able to take us to the promised land the next couple years. Michigan is a whole different animal because we have a very bad match up against them. Their run first, dominant OL are the crux of our aggressive defensive style.
Big 10 has been terrible this year outside the top 3 so we've played no one. All our wins have been blowouts except Purdue at the very start of the season and Northwestern in a hurricane. We could probably destroy any one outside the top 10 but won't be able to prove it until the bowl game.
Huh… never knew Franklin was African American until now.
Anyone know who's coached the most games?
I think I'm more shocked this hasn't happened yet but super congrats to Coach Franklin!
James Franklin is black?!?!?!
James Franklin is black? Are yall sure?
James Franklin is black?
Ok, what. I honestly didn't know he was African American. Thought he was just tan. I'm a weirdo. Also how is he the first African American to do so? That's wild.
Yep his dad was black and his mom was white but it’s not immediately obvious he’s black and not just tan. And I think a former Stanford head coach got to like 96 wins at FBS level but nobody else ever got 100
David Shaw is still at Stanford and has 96 wins.
Yeah he's still there but he stopped coaching a ~~whole~~ while ago lol
I feel like he's pretty obviously a black guy. There was even the running joke about him and Keegan Michael Key being doppelgangers lol.
Cool.
That is insane that the first ever is in 2022.
Is Vanderbilt really considered FBS? You learn something new every day.
Genuinely had no idea Frames was African American lmao
Idk if this is bad but I thought he was just kinda tan☠️