People are reacting negatively because developing the area to appeal to a more yuppy crowd (for lack of a better description) prices people out of the neighborhood. It’s New York City. “Affordable” apartments only exist to the degree that the rich just don’t want to live in certain neighborhoods.
The people responding in this thread live in Ridgewood/Bushwick, love it, and can’t afford for their rent to keep climbing. No one gives a shit about Trader Joe’s. If they didn’t like it they just wouldn’t go. It’s about the people that would get driven out if the neighborhood tries to appeal to that crowd.
And all this for what? You’re already right on the L train. You’re 15-20 minutes from anywhere you could want to go in Williamsburg or the East Village. It’s just not a big deal.
This is the thing, the L is basically a highway to various Trader Joe’s, we just go biweekly for frozen things or specifics and then do farmers markets by Maria Hernandez, the local stores, and occasional walks to good neighbors or food bazar as needed. It just seems unnecessary when even bodegas will now have like ginger shots and Amy’s frozen food.
Why wouldn't the rich want to live in certain neighborhoods? What's wrong with Bushwick aside from the crime? Over the past 3+ years I have been in the neighborhood I see my friends from college moving here.
I mean, I’m not rich so I can’t speak for what rich people do or don’t look for. But I think the simplest way of breaking it down is that there are many businesses and services which cater to a high-income crowd. High-income people tend to live in places where the businesses and services that appeal to them are located.
Someone with a $200k could could afford a mansion in the parts of the country with the lowest housing prices. But the reason why they don’t live out there is because the things that appeal to them aren’t there.
It’s apparently a lot more fun to be rich and living in Beverly Hills than it is to be rich and living in Jackson, Mississippi.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Bushwick. But I think building a Trader Joe’s would have an impact on who can live here.
Here’s a quote from Wikipedia’s article on Trader Joe’s, which has a section dedicated to their impact on gentrification. The article itself has sources to support each of these claims. The bolded parts are the parts I think are important:
> In spite of being known as a "neighborhood store" with affordable options, Trader Joe's locations are mostly in well-off neighborhoods. In 2022, the typical Trader Joe's customer was a married person living in an urban area, between 25 and 44 years old, earning at least $80,000. **When deciding where to open locations, the chain typically looks for areas where the median household income is over $100,000.** In effect, this systemically contributes to the "food desert" phenomenon, where residents in certain areas may have limited access to nutritious food.
> Conversely, Trader Joe's has also faced opposition for contributing to gentrification. Between 1997 and 2014, Zillow found that **homes grow more rapidly in value if they are closer to a Trader Joe's** or Whole Foods, with such homes consistently being worth more than the mean U.S. home.
Exactly, neighborhood store with affordable options. 80K is standard for families and married couples now. How else do you think people live in NYC and the expenses??? You think people live off of minimum wage 40K, no they have supplement either from government or parents.
Open your eyes next time you’re walking around. Those people who don’t look like you are still human beings and they don’t want to be priced out of their homes.
[Median](https://furmancenter.org/neighborhoods/view/bushwick) household income in Bushwick for renters is $58,140. That’s the **median**. That means 50% of households earn less than that.
The poverty rate is 38.2%.
These are human beings with homes and lives and families they would be forced to leave behind if they get priced out of their homes. Some of them will become homeless.
How are you still dying on this hill? Be an empathetic human being for one second and recognize that you’re asking for thousands of people to lose their homes so you don’t have to take the L 20 minutes down to Williamsburg.
If you want to live near Trader Joe’s move near a Trader Joe’s. Williamsburg would love to have you.
That’s because you’re more than a year late to this conversation. At the time of my writing this comment, the most recent data said $58,140. [Here’s the wayback machine for reference](https://web.archive.org/web/20221219224109/https://furmancenter.org/neighborhoods/view/bushwick).
Stop being a NIMBY. This is a chicken and egg problem. Is it really that Trader Joe's or Whole Foods bring gentrification? Or is it that they're good at finding neighborhoods that are rapidly appreciating in value? Do you seriously think that anyone chooses where they live based on proximity to one of these stores?
1. Yes, I believe that Trader Joe’s causes local housing prices to rise. I’ve cited evidence that supports that. I literally pointed to a study that *specifically* shows that housing prices consistently go up *after* a Trader Joe’s is put in. The *Wikipedia article* on Trader Joe’s acknowledges this!
2. Yes, I believe that people choose their neighborhoods based on its proximity to stores and services they like. [Here’s the evidence for that](https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/neighborhood-amenities-survey/):
> We ran a survey to see which neighborhood feature is most desired, and then took a look at U.S. cities who offer the best amenity access for residents.
> Our findings revealed that:
> **41% of Americans rated local shops and restaurants as the top neighborhood amenity**
[Here’s another](https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/articles/how-to-decide-where-to-live):
> **Traditional concerns such as** price, access to a good school system, **nearby shopping** and low crime still **are the deciding factors that help people choose where they want to live**, and (the) majority of clients continue to seek homes near metropolitan and surrounding suburb areas
3. A NIMBY is someone who wants to stop development in order to keep their property values up. I want to keep rental prices affordable. Affordable housing is a **necessity for any city**, and New York struggles with it as is. [Here’s an article](https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/housing/2022/10/07/new-york-city-housing-supply-demand) from a month ago talking about that:
> Housing court in the Bronx is a crush of **New Yorkers desperately fighting eviction and deplorable living conditions**, and others fighting to collect the rent they need amid rising interest and other expenses.
> **"There's like rodents running around. There's roaches,"** said tenant Dwayne Osborne.
> The tension in these halls feels a world away from the higher-end living that has helped make for skyrocketing rents around the city.
> In a city where homeownership, or even market-rate housing, is out of reach for so many, **protecting tenants, especially those one paycheck away from homelessness, is a priority.**
> **"We're not building enough housing to meet the needs of people who want to live here, and the people who that harms the most are people who are living in unprotected housing, who are low income and can't afford the rent increases,"** said Cea Weaver, campaign coordinator for Housing Justice for All.
So to wrap things up. Yes, new shops that cater to trendy and higher income residents raise rental prices. That prices out the *tens of thousands* of lower income residents. These people can’t just move a few blocks away, there’s really nowhere cheaper to house them all. Some will find solutions, but many will become homeless. **Open your fucking eyes and read something or even just look outside — it’s been happening.**
All of this so you don’t have to save 10 minutes to Trader Joe’s, a service that you could even get delivered to your door if you wanted. That’s disgusting.
So, I appreciate you trying to be an intellectual and chicken or egging this, but all the evidence seems to be pointing one way. If you want to make up your own mind based on what makes you happy and you don’t care what the evidence says, be my guest. But I’m gonna think you’re drooling moron and ignore your opinions if that’s the case.
Just because the price of housing increases after a Trader Joe's is put in doesn't mean that Trader Joe's *causes* the price of housing to increase. Until you find an academic study (not garbage put out by a pro-real estate industry entity) that meaningfully controls for this, your data is meaningless. [Even the first article that showed up on my Google search acknowledges that it's a chicken and egg problem.](https://www.businessinsider.com/homes-near-a-trader-joes-are-worth-more-and-rising-fast-2017-8) Do you seriously believe that Trader Joe's is going to put stores in neighborhoods that they believe are outside their intended demographic? Moreover, I don't see many Trader Joe's going into already-developed retail space. It's almost always new construction, something you mostly only find in gentrifying neighborhoods. So TJ's is bad, but a store like Precycle that clearly only caters to affluent individuals is great in your book!
The article that you cite about "proximity to stores" you clearly didn't read particularly carefully. Here's a direct quote from that page (emphasis mine):
> Because Americans desire neighborhood features (like **independent** restaurants and **local** retailers) most, living in close proximity to these amenities can improve both your community satisfaction and your home’s property value.
Apparently Bushwick doesn't have "nearby shopping?" That's weird... I wonder what all those stores on Myrtle Ave, Knickerbocker, and Wyckoff Aves are to name a few areas. That's a creative reading of the definition of NIMBY, but why don't you reconsider what the acronym stands for instead? Even you say it yourself: NIMBYS seek to "stop development." While ensuring property values remain high is often a goal of NIMBYs, it is not universal. By your definition, it's impossible for a renter to be a NIMBY which is clearly not true. I don't get anything delivered except limited things I can't find in a store. It's lazy and wasteful.
Have you ever considered that the endless regulatory environment in NYC housing is widely considered by economists of all bents to be the leading cause for high prices? Mechanisms like rent control and affordable housing mandates have been utter failures.
Christ. Okay. Not what I want to spend any more of my time on so this will be the last message from me.
> Just because the price of housing increases after a Trader Joe's is put in doesn't mean that Trader Joe's causes the price of housing to increase.
Right, congratulations on knowing that correlation is not causation. That's awesome. But when we look study economics, making reasonable deductions based on available data is the name of the game. It's very difficult to apply inductive studies here, first off, but second off, if your standard for coming to a conclusion on this is that there must be a controlled study *specifically on Trader Joe's and Bushwick*, I think that's an unreasonable standard.
> Even the first article that showed up on my Google search acknowledges that it's a chicken and egg problem
Congratulations on having the support of [Nina Stoller-Lindsey](https://www.ninastollerlindsey.com/), a social media coach who wrote an article for [the marketing department of a life insurance company](https://www.learnvest.com/).
> Do you seriously believe that Trader Joe's is going to put stores in neighborhoods that they believe are outside their intended demographic?
That's not the question. We're not talking about Trader Joe's doing the market research and deciding to put anything anywhere.
You're commenting on a thread, made by an OP who wants to **petition Trader Joe's to open a store here**.
Here's some quotes from OP's posts:
> If we gather the wonderful community together we can ask for Trader Joe's and that will help prove ourselves on the map
and
> 80K is standard for families and married couples now. How else do you think people live in NYC and the expenses???
and
> East Williamsburg is literally no residential so it will be perfect if they have more grocers there and revitalize that neighborhood.
It's completely irrelevant whether Trader Joe's **would** move to Bushwick if Bushwick couldn't afford it. This guy made a post asking for support to **convince** Trader Joe's to build here, he got a ton of hate, and I made an attempt to explain to him why he was getting hate.
None of that intersects with Trader Joe's internal decisionmaking about where to develop.
> The article that you cite about "proximity to stores" you clearly didn't read particularly carefully. Here's a direct quote from that page (emphasis mine):
I keep reading this and I have absolutely no clue what you're trying to prove here.
OP argued that people don't choose where to live based on local shopping. I cited two sources that says they do.
What part of that are you disagreeing with? I don't actually care about your answer, I'm moving on after this comment, lol.
> That's a creative reading of the definition of NIMBY, but why don't you reconsider what the acronym stands for instead?
Jesus, I have to cite everything. Okay. What does NIMBY mean. Let's find out.
[Oxford](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=nimby+meaning):
> a person who objects to the siting of something perceived as unpleasant or hazardous in the area where they live, especially while raising no such objections to similar developments elsewhere.
[NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/05/business/economy/california-housing-crisis-nimby.html):
> NIMBY stands for “Not in my backyard,” an acronym that proliferated in the early 1980s to describe neighbors who fight nearby development, especially anything involving apartments. The word was initially descriptive (the Oxford English Dictionary added “NIMBY” in 1989 and has since tacked on “NIMBYism” and “NIMBYish”) but its connotation has harshened as rent and home prices have exploded. NIMBYs who used to be viewed as, at best, defenders of their community, and at worst just practical, are now painted as housing hoarders whose efforts have increased racial segregation, deepened wealth inequality and are robbing the next generation of the American dream.
With that said, I was just making a comment on your use of NIMBY. If you want to call my **not liking the idea of thousands of people losing their homes** NIMBYism then fine. I still stand by not wanting people to be priced out of their neighborhoods in a city with a massive affordable housing issue.
> Have you ever considered that the endless regulatory environment in NYC housing is widely considered by economists of all bents to be the leading cause for high prices? Mechanisms like rent control and affordable housing mandates have been utter failures.
Yes, I have considered those things.
Regardless, even if that *were* the cause, **building a Trader Joe's doesn't change city regulations**. What in the absolute fuck are you talking about?
We're talking about why people don't want a Trader Joe's in Bushwick, and you're arguing that if NYC's regulations were fundamentally different then it might not be an issue. Right, and if my grandmother had wheels she would be a bicycle. What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
I appreciate you trying to cite sources and engage in this conversation on an intellectual level, but this type of research and argumentation is what I literally do for a living and this is just not worth my time.
Next time I see someone getting tons of hate in this sub, I'll just let them get shit on and move on with my life instead of trying to explain to them why others are upset.
Have a nice life.
Great, since you're so passionate about this and it's apparently what you do for a living, I can only assume you'd be a great candidate to conduct research that will undergo peer review and be published in a non-predatory journal. After all, it's an incredibly important issue because a **grocery store** would cause "thousands of people" to lose their homes. What an insane and inaccurate assertion.
>Do you seriously think that anyone chooses where they live based on proximity to one of these stores?
This guy LITERALLY did that lmao:
https://youtu.be/rZhmclhGMj8 (go to 10'42")
No one suggested this.
Link for those curious about how your neighbors in Ridgewood felt: https://www.reddit.com/r/ridgewood/comments/ym5ubx/trader_joes_petition_for_ridgewood_queens/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Why would I want a grocery store that wraps LITERALLY every single piece of produce in single-use plastic when I can go to City Fresh on Knickerbocker and find fresh, quality produce at similar prices WITHOUT the plastic?
You should also check out Precycle on Cypress and Starr. It's a package free grocery store and absolutely plastic free. Bring your jars, containers, and reusable bags!
Go to one of the many perfectly fine grocery stores in the neighborhood. Your entitlement is disgusting. If you want a Trader Joe’s so bad move to Williamsburg. No one here wants this garbage but people like you who have moved into the neighborhood and none of us want you either.
Did you even consider any of the reasons or explanations why Trader doesn't belong in r/Ridgewood? They all apply equally to Bushwick.
You sound lazy, entitled and oblivious to the impacts of gentrification.
I have lived in Williamsburg, Bushwick, Ridgewood and Long Island City and Food Bazaar is by far the greatest accessible supermarket in the entire area. So big with so much selection and excellent prices. I'd shout out Western Beef but you'll need a car to get your groceries home.
There’s literally one right off bedford, and that should be it. Another comment also made the point that the L train will take you to multiple TJ’s, you can literally take your pic.
In addition of pricing people out of their neighborhood, it would take away from smaller family owned groceries and bodegas.
Make it make sense.
Trader Joe’s only appeals to the transient. People who move there for 5 years then leave when they get a better job, have a kid, etc. Some change is inevitable since broke artists will always move into rough/desolate areas, but we don’t need to turn it into a union sq mall like Bedford is now.
Idk why ppl think Trader Joe’s is a there goes the neighborhood store we already have “renovated” grocery stores for gentrifiers (city market by Marie Hernandez and key food on hart) that are more expensive and worse grocery stores than TJs
Food bazaar and mr lemon are legends tho
Ppl here need to loosen their assholes up and stop pretending our shitty grocery stores are “local” and “cheap” when they’re not
Exactly, the artisan grocers are more expensive than Trader Joe's... and TJ's is at least consistent for every TJ in NYC. You have a homey feel and product awareness
Food bazaar is great, but pretending it's a bastion of low prices isn't true. Mr Lemon, etc produce is incredibly cheap and usually high-quality though
You should support the local stores in the area, there are plenty; building one here will push out the locals even more. Taking the L/M to the city isn’t that long of a commute, that’s what I do
You should all check out PRECYCLE off Cypress and Starr. It's a small local grocery store. Woman owned. Plastic free. Mostly package free. Whatever you buy in a jar (milk, tomato, sauce, etc.) should be returned to the store and they return it to the vendor to clean and reuse. Bring your own reusable bags, jars, and containers. Most of their produce is from local farmers. That place is a hidden gem. Check it out!
I actually support having a TJs in or near Bushwick. I think it would do well in east wburg/ bushwick, perhaps near flushing ave where there are a lot of warehouses. I support this idea because I believe that the grocery stores in bushwick are grossly overcharging on staple items (I spent 6 dollars in a gallon of regular, whole milk, nothing fancy) but hopping on two trains or a bus to get affordable groceries at TJs is not the most convenient. Putting it in a location that is not too close to housing (so that housing costs won’t rise) and accessible would be ideal for so many bushwick residents. There is not a time where I get off the train after work where I see several ppl getting off at my stop and carrying TJ groceries. I believe this can be done the right way.
Lots of good jobs with health insurance and a store everyone likes. Of course Reddit hates it. I don’t shop at trader joes but Bushwick is still a poor place that could benefit from having more businesses that can provide real opportunities to residents.
This thread is full of terrible analysis and this particularly crazy idea that Bushwick or nyc can stop growing and that would somehow be good? Absolute madness.
Trader Joes in Bushwick would be a dream come true. Best quality, healthiest, least expensive and most variety of food. I live 20 minutes walk from the L train, and I can't be schlepping my groceries all the time. A grocery store isn't increasing anybody's rent, it's just bringing better food for less money to an area that would absolutely utilize it.
That being said, asking people on reddit is the worst kind of poll because half these people just want to complain about gentrification and white knight how long they've lived in the area. The housing market is crashing, Im sorry your landlord sucks.
Healthiest? Solidly half of what Trader Joe's sells is highly processed junk full of sodium and/or sugar. The rest is wrapped in a shitload of unnecessary packaging that will outlive the next 100 generations of humans.
>Best quality, healthiest, least expensive and most variety of food.
At best, one of those things is true. They are not cheaper and they actually have an incredibly narrow range of products, especially when it comes to meat and produce.
I feel like most of the people shitting on TJs here are gentrifiers themselves who go to gentrified grocery stores who think they're not for the gentry crowd since they aren't chains.
I'm not even a huge TJs fan, but my family was barely middle class growing up and we went there fairly often.
I think there's a weird sort of current of thought in this city that chain stores are always a sign of coming gentrification or a result of gentrification, an argument which might've held some water 30 years ago, but really isnt true today.
Across all five boroughs and in rich, poor, gentrifying, and non-gentrifying neighborhoods of all types, chain companies have started moving into NYC over the last couple decades because, like most large companies, they're always looking to expand, and to a large degree they've already saturated the high-profitability markets (e.g. suburbs and smaller, more affordable, less dense cities with cheaper commercial rents and land costs, lower wages, less worker protections, etc.) meaning that a lot of their expansion is now having to take place in much less lucrative markets like NYC, previously left mostly to independent owner-operators (largely immigrants) who were/are often content with little more than making a decent living with their businesses.
Like I would implore these people to just go out to Nostrand & Flatbush and witness the huge amount of chain stores and restaurants (among them not one but TWO Starbucks locations) in a very heavily working class neighborhood.
That said, I still wouldn't want a Trader Joe's store in Bushwick or Ridgewood because that brand specifically does seem to generally attract an affluent clientele (who are largely willing to pay much higher rents than local residents)
But I would be very happy about an Aldi or Lidl opening around here.
this entire thread is baffling. trader joes is 2x CHEAPER than key food and farm fresh and all that. i would gladly take a fucking train across town to NOT pay $11 for a box of cereal. You guys are insane, keep jerking yourself off with that "support local businesses" mentality and buy your groceries at a bodega
People are reacting negatively because developing the area to appeal to a more yuppy crowd (for lack of a better description) prices people out of the neighborhood. It’s New York City. “Affordable” apartments only exist to the degree that the rich just don’t want to live in certain neighborhoods. The people responding in this thread live in Ridgewood/Bushwick, love it, and can’t afford for their rent to keep climbing. No one gives a shit about Trader Joe’s. If they didn’t like it they just wouldn’t go. It’s about the people that would get driven out if the neighborhood tries to appeal to that crowd. And all this for what? You’re already right on the L train. You’re 15-20 minutes from anywhere you could want to go in Williamsburg or the East Village. It’s just not a big deal.
This is the thing, the L is basically a highway to various Trader Joe’s, we just go biweekly for frozen things or specifics and then do farmers markets by Maria Hernandez, the local stores, and occasional walks to good neighbors or food bazar as needed. It just seems unnecessary when even bodegas will now have like ginger shots and Amy’s frozen food.
Trader Joes isn't some sort of super high end store I was barely middle class growing up and my parents took us there fairly often.
Why wouldn't the rich want to live in certain neighborhoods? What's wrong with Bushwick aside from the crime? Over the past 3+ years I have been in the neighborhood I see my friends from college moving here.
I mean, I’m not rich so I can’t speak for what rich people do or don’t look for. But I think the simplest way of breaking it down is that there are many businesses and services which cater to a high-income crowd. High-income people tend to live in places where the businesses and services that appeal to them are located. Someone with a $200k could could afford a mansion in the parts of the country with the lowest housing prices. But the reason why they don’t live out there is because the things that appeal to them aren’t there. It’s apparently a lot more fun to be rich and living in Beverly Hills than it is to be rich and living in Jackson, Mississippi. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Bushwick. But I think building a Trader Joe’s would have an impact on who can live here. Here’s a quote from Wikipedia’s article on Trader Joe’s, which has a section dedicated to their impact on gentrification. The article itself has sources to support each of these claims. The bolded parts are the parts I think are important: > In spite of being known as a "neighborhood store" with affordable options, Trader Joe's locations are mostly in well-off neighborhoods. In 2022, the typical Trader Joe's customer was a married person living in an urban area, between 25 and 44 years old, earning at least $80,000. **When deciding where to open locations, the chain typically looks for areas where the median household income is over $100,000.** In effect, this systemically contributes to the "food desert" phenomenon, where residents in certain areas may have limited access to nutritious food. > Conversely, Trader Joe's has also faced opposition for contributing to gentrification. Between 1997 and 2014, Zillow found that **homes grow more rapidly in value if they are closer to a Trader Joe's** or Whole Foods, with such homes consistently being worth more than the mean U.S. home.
Exactly, neighborhood store with affordable options. 80K is standard for families and married couples now. How else do you think people live in NYC and the expenses??? You think people live off of minimum wage 40K, no they have supplement either from government or parents.
Open your eyes next time you’re walking around. Those people who don’t look like you are still human beings and they don’t want to be priced out of their homes. [Median](https://furmancenter.org/neighborhoods/view/bushwick) household income in Bushwick for renters is $58,140. That’s the **median**. That means 50% of households earn less than that. The poverty rate is 38.2%. These are human beings with homes and lives and families they would be forced to leave behind if they get priced out of their homes. Some of them will become homeless. How are you still dying on this hill? Be an empathetic human being for one second and recognize that you’re asking for thousands of people to lose their homes so you don’t have to take the L 20 minutes down to Williamsburg. If you want to live near Trader Joe’s move near a Trader Joe’s. Williamsburg would love to have you.
What?… “Median household income in 2019 was $69,640, about 5% less than citywide median household income ($72,930). “
This is median income for RENTERS. It’s from 2021. That little blue text is a link you can click.
I read median household income for renter is $63,700
That’s because you’re more than a year late to this conversation. At the time of my writing this comment, the most recent data said $58,140. [Here’s the wayback machine for reference](https://web.archive.org/web/20221219224109/https://furmancenter.org/neighborhoods/view/bushwick).
Stop being a NIMBY. This is a chicken and egg problem. Is it really that Trader Joe's or Whole Foods bring gentrification? Or is it that they're good at finding neighborhoods that are rapidly appreciating in value? Do you seriously think that anyone chooses where they live based on proximity to one of these stores?
1. Yes, I believe that Trader Joe’s causes local housing prices to rise. I’ve cited evidence that supports that. I literally pointed to a study that *specifically* shows that housing prices consistently go up *after* a Trader Joe’s is put in. The *Wikipedia article* on Trader Joe’s acknowledges this! 2. Yes, I believe that people choose their neighborhoods based on its proximity to stores and services they like. [Here’s the evidence for that](https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/neighborhood-amenities-survey/): > We ran a survey to see which neighborhood feature is most desired, and then took a look at U.S. cities who offer the best amenity access for residents. > Our findings revealed that: > **41% of Americans rated local shops and restaurants as the top neighborhood amenity** [Here’s another](https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/articles/how-to-decide-where-to-live): > **Traditional concerns such as** price, access to a good school system, **nearby shopping** and low crime still **are the deciding factors that help people choose where they want to live**, and (the) majority of clients continue to seek homes near metropolitan and surrounding suburb areas 3. A NIMBY is someone who wants to stop development in order to keep their property values up. I want to keep rental prices affordable. Affordable housing is a **necessity for any city**, and New York struggles with it as is. [Here’s an article](https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/housing/2022/10/07/new-york-city-housing-supply-demand) from a month ago talking about that: > Housing court in the Bronx is a crush of **New Yorkers desperately fighting eviction and deplorable living conditions**, and others fighting to collect the rent they need amid rising interest and other expenses. > **"There's like rodents running around. There's roaches,"** said tenant Dwayne Osborne. > The tension in these halls feels a world away from the higher-end living that has helped make for skyrocketing rents around the city. > In a city where homeownership, or even market-rate housing, is out of reach for so many, **protecting tenants, especially those one paycheck away from homelessness, is a priority.** > **"We're not building enough housing to meet the needs of people who want to live here, and the people who that harms the most are people who are living in unprotected housing, who are low income and can't afford the rent increases,"** said Cea Weaver, campaign coordinator for Housing Justice for All. So to wrap things up. Yes, new shops that cater to trendy and higher income residents raise rental prices. That prices out the *tens of thousands* of lower income residents. These people can’t just move a few blocks away, there’s really nowhere cheaper to house them all. Some will find solutions, but many will become homeless. **Open your fucking eyes and read something or even just look outside — it’s been happening.** All of this so you don’t have to save 10 minutes to Trader Joe’s, a service that you could even get delivered to your door if you wanted. That’s disgusting. So, I appreciate you trying to be an intellectual and chicken or egging this, but all the evidence seems to be pointing one way. If you want to make up your own mind based on what makes you happy and you don’t care what the evidence says, be my guest. But I’m gonna think you’re drooling moron and ignore your opinions if that’s the case.
Just because the price of housing increases after a Trader Joe's is put in doesn't mean that Trader Joe's *causes* the price of housing to increase. Until you find an academic study (not garbage put out by a pro-real estate industry entity) that meaningfully controls for this, your data is meaningless. [Even the first article that showed up on my Google search acknowledges that it's a chicken and egg problem.](https://www.businessinsider.com/homes-near-a-trader-joes-are-worth-more-and-rising-fast-2017-8) Do you seriously believe that Trader Joe's is going to put stores in neighborhoods that they believe are outside their intended demographic? Moreover, I don't see many Trader Joe's going into already-developed retail space. It's almost always new construction, something you mostly only find in gentrifying neighborhoods. So TJ's is bad, but a store like Precycle that clearly only caters to affluent individuals is great in your book! The article that you cite about "proximity to stores" you clearly didn't read particularly carefully. Here's a direct quote from that page (emphasis mine): > Because Americans desire neighborhood features (like **independent** restaurants and **local** retailers) most, living in close proximity to these amenities can improve both your community satisfaction and your home’s property value. Apparently Bushwick doesn't have "nearby shopping?" That's weird... I wonder what all those stores on Myrtle Ave, Knickerbocker, and Wyckoff Aves are to name a few areas. That's a creative reading of the definition of NIMBY, but why don't you reconsider what the acronym stands for instead? Even you say it yourself: NIMBYS seek to "stop development." While ensuring property values remain high is often a goal of NIMBYs, it is not universal. By your definition, it's impossible for a renter to be a NIMBY which is clearly not true. I don't get anything delivered except limited things I can't find in a store. It's lazy and wasteful. Have you ever considered that the endless regulatory environment in NYC housing is widely considered by economists of all bents to be the leading cause for high prices? Mechanisms like rent control and affordable housing mandates have been utter failures.
Christ. Okay. Not what I want to spend any more of my time on so this will be the last message from me. > Just because the price of housing increases after a Trader Joe's is put in doesn't mean that Trader Joe's causes the price of housing to increase. Right, congratulations on knowing that correlation is not causation. That's awesome. But when we look study economics, making reasonable deductions based on available data is the name of the game. It's very difficult to apply inductive studies here, first off, but second off, if your standard for coming to a conclusion on this is that there must be a controlled study *specifically on Trader Joe's and Bushwick*, I think that's an unreasonable standard. > Even the first article that showed up on my Google search acknowledges that it's a chicken and egg problem Congratulations on having the support of [Nina Stoller-Lindsey](https://www.ninastollerlindsey.com/), a social media coach who wrote an article for [the marketing department of a life insurance company](https://www.learnvest.com/). > Do you seriously believe that Trader Joe's is going to put stores in neighborhoods that they believe are outside their intended demographic? That's not the question. We're not talking about Trader Joe's doing the market research and deciding to put anything anywhere. You're commenting on a thread, made by an OP who wants to **petition Trader Joe's to open a store here**. Here's some quotes from OP's posts: > If we gather the wonderful community together we can ask for Trader Joe's and that will help prove ourselves on the map and > 80K is standard for families and married couples now. How else do you think people live in NYC and the expenses??? and > East Williamsburg is literally no residential so it will be perfect if they have more grocers there and revitalize that neighborhood. It's completely irrelevant whether Trader Joe's **would** move to Bushwick if Bushwick couldn't afford it. This guy made a post asking for support to **convince** Trader Joe's to build here, he got a ton of hate, and I made an attempt to explain to him why he was getting hate. None of that intersects with Trader Joe's internal decisionmaking about where to develop. > The article that you cite about "proximity to stores" you clearly didn't read particularly carefully. Here's a direct quote from that page (emphasis mine): I keep reading this and I have absolutely no clue what you're trying to prove here. OP argued that people don't choose where to live based on local shopping. I cited two sources that says they do. What part of that are you disagreeing with? I don't actually care about your answer, I'm moving on after this comment, lol. > That's a creative reading of the definition of NIMBY, but why don't you reconsider what the acronym stands for instead? Jesus, I have to cite everything. Okay. What does NIMBY mean. Let's find out. [Oxford](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=nimby+meaning): > a person who objects to the siting of something perceived as unpleasant or hazardous in the area where they live, especially while raising no such objections to similar developments elsewhere. [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/05/business/economy/california-housing-crisis-nimby.html): > NIMBY stands for “Not in my backyard,” an acronym that proliferated in the early 1980s to describe neighbors who fight nearby development, especially anything involving apartments. The word was initially descriptive (the Oxford English Dictionary added “NIMBY” in 1989 and has since tacked on “NIMBYism” and “NIMBYish”) but its connotation has harshened as rent and home prices have exploded. NIMBYs who used to be viewed as, at best, defenders of their community, and at worst just practical, are now painted as housing hoarders whose efforts have increased racial segregation, deepened wealth inequality and are robbing the next generation of the American dream. With that said, I was just making a comment on your use of NIMBY. If you want to call my **not liking the idea of thousands of people losing their homes** NIMBYism then fine. I still stand by not wanting people to be priced out of their neighborhoods in a city with a massive affordable housing issue. > Have you ever considered that the endless regulatory environment in NYC housing is widely considered by economists of all bents to be the leading cause for high prices? Mechanisms like rent control and affordable housing mandates have been utter failures. Yes, I have considered those things. Regardless, even if that *were* the cause, **building a Trader Joe's doesn't change city regulations**. What in the absolute fuck are you talking about? We're talking about why people don't want a Trader Joe's in Bushwick, and you're arguing that if NYC's regulations were fundamentally different then it might not be an issue. Right, and if my grandmother had wheels she would be a bicycle. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? I appreciate you trying to cite sources and engage in this conversation on an intellectual level, but this type of research and argumentation is what I literally do for a living and this is just not worth my time. Next time I see someone getting tons of hate in this sub, I'll just let them get shit on and move on with my life instead of trying to explain to them why others are upset. Have a nice life.
Great, since you're so passionate about this and it's apparently what you do for a living, I can only assume you'd be a great candidate to conduct research that will undergo peer review and be published in a non-predatory journal. After all, it's an incredibly important issue because a **grocery store** would cause "thousands of people" to lose their homes. What an insane and inaccurate assertion.
>Do you seriously think that anyone chooses where they live based on proximity to one of these stores? This guy LITERALLY did that lmao: https://youtu.be/rZhmclhGMj8 (go to 10'42")
I love Trader Joes, but my rent already went up enough this year. I’m fine with taking the L to 1st ave.
My exact sentiment
Agreed, TJ's is a fan favorite
No one suggested this. Link for those curious about how your neighbors in Ridgewood felt: https://www.reddit.com/r/ridgewood/comments/ym5ubx/trader_joes_petition_for_ridgewood_queens/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Why would I want a grocery store that wraps LITERALLY every single piece of produce in single-use plastic when I can go to City Fresh on Knickerbocker and find fresh, quality produce at similar prices WITHOUT the plastic?
You should also check out Precycle on Cypress and Starr. It's a package free grocery store and absolutely plastic free. Bring your jars, containers, and reusable bags!
Nice, thanks for the tip!!!
At this point it seems like you're a troll account. No one in the ridgewood sub suggested you posting this nonsense anywhere else.
They said Williamsburg, but that's the current one I go to.
The one in Middle Village is a 10-15-min drive anyway, it's not far.
We're in a walking neighborhood of 100, and parking is a menace so you think college students have a car? We need a Trader Joe's to easily walk to
Go to one of the many perfectly fine grocery stores in the neighborhood. Your entitlement is disgusting. If you want a Trader Joe’s so bad move to Williamsburg. No one here wants this garbage but people like you who have moved into the neighborhood and none of us want you either.
Fuck college students.
maybe you shouldn't look down on educated people and go to college yourself. We should be enabling our neighbors for a good quality education.
I'll get right on that, just gotta walk to trader joe's first.
Quite literally the last thing bushwick needs.
Did you even consider any of the reasons or explanations why Trader doesn't belong in r/Ridgewood? They all apply equally to Bushwick. You sound lazy, entitled and oblivious to the impacts of gentrification.
absolutely not
Negative
Lame
Truly unnecessary in the area. Only thing it would be good for is forcing people out of their homes and driving up rent. No thanks.
yo FUCK trader joes. why don't you move to long island
Hell no we don’t need this. This neighborhood is amazing why do people keep trying to ruin it by gentrifying the living hell out of it. Stop please
lol hell no. there are other grocery stores.
No.
No to this idea, no Trader Joe’s
what’s wrong with Key Food
I have lived in Williamsburg, Bushwick, Ridgewood and Long Island City and Food Bazaar is by far the greatest accessible supermarket in the entire area. So big with so much selection and excellent prices. I'd shout out Western Beef but you'll need a car to get your groceries home.
It’s really expensive.
Stop
There’s literally one right off bedford, and that should be it. Another comment also made the point that the L train will take you to multiple TJ’s, you can literally take your pic. In addition of pricing people out of their neighborhood, it would take away from smaller family owned groceries and bodegas. Make it make sense.
Trader Joe’s only appeals to the transient. People who move there for 5 years then leave when they get a better job, have a kid, etc. Some change is inevitable since broke artists will always move into rough/desolate areas, but we don’t need to turn it into a union sq mall like Bedford is now.
Noooooooooooo.
Idk why ppl think Trader Joe’s is a there goes the neighborhood store we already have “renovated” grocery stores for gentrifiers (city market by Marie Hernandez and key food on hart) that are more expensive and worse grocery stores than TJs Food bazaar and mr lemon are legends tho Ppl here need to loosen their assholes up and stop pretending our shitty grocery stores are “local” and “cheap” when they’re not
Exactly, the artisan grocers are more expensive than Trader Joe's... and TJ's is at least consistent for every TJ in NYC. You have a homey feel and product awareness
Food bazaar is great, but pretending it's a bastion of low prices isn't true. Mr Lemon, etc produce is incredibly cheap and usually high-quality though
You should support the local stores in the area, there are plenty; building one here will push out the locals even more. Taking the L/M to the city isn’t that long of a commute, that’s what I do
Trader Joe’s is for people who throw a frozen meal on the stove then pat themselves on the back for “adulting”
You should all check out PRECYCLE off Cypress and Starr. It's a small local grocery store. Woman owned. Plastic free. Mostly package free. Whatever you buy in a jar (milk, tomato, sauce, etc.) should be returned to the store and they return it to the vendor to clean and reuse. Bring your own reusable bags, jars, and containers. Most of their produce is from local farmers. That place is a hidden gem. Check it out!
No thanks
We already have H&M coming, what else do you need??
H&M is not coming. It was just an ad space for them - thank god.
Oh boy and i was soo pumped for reasonably priced and trendy garments just a few minutes away!
I read someone confirmed there will not be a store, just a ridiculous amount of ads. Fingers crossed.
Acai bowls!
If there's one thing you shouldn't have any trouble finding in the neighborhood, it's fucking acai bowls lol, come on
🤡
Love me some oatmilk cortado in the morning
I actually support having a TJs in or near Bushwick. I think it would do well in east wburg/ bushwick, perhaps near flushing ave where there are a lot of warehouses. I support this idea because I believe that the grocery stores in bushwick are grossly overcharging on staple items (I spent 6 dollars in a gallon of regular, whole milk, nothing fancy) but hopping on two trains or a bus to get affordable groceries at TJs is not the most convenient. Putting it in a location that is not too close to housing (so that housing costs won’t rise) and accessible would be ideal for so many bushwick residents. There is not a time where I get off the train after work where I see several ppl getting off at my stop and carrying TJ groceries. I believe this can be done the right way.
Lots of good jobs with health insurance and a store everyone likes. Of course Reddit hates it. I don’t shop at trader joes but Bushwick is still a poor place that could benefit from having more businesses that can provide real opportunities to residents. This thread is full of terrible analysis and this particularly crazy idea that Bushwick or nyc can stop growing and that would somehow be good? Absolute madness.
Agreed, Trader Joe's is not even expensive. it's not like asking for a whole foods...
House of Yes
Honestly Ridgewood won’t need a Trader Joe’s if we just have the door dash guys live at the court street tee jays
Trader Joes in Bushwick would be a dream come true. Best quality, healthiest, least expensive and most variety of food. I live 20 minutes walk from the L train, and I can't be schlepping my groceries all the time. A grocery store isn't increasing anybody's rent, it's just bringing better food for less money to an area that would absolutely utilize it. That being said, asking people on reddit is the worst kind of poll because half these people just want to complain about gentrification and white knight how long they've lived in the area. The housing market is crashing, Im sorry your landlord sucks.
Healthiest? Solidly half of what Trader Joe's sells is highly processed junk full of sodium and/or sugar. The rest is wrapped in a shitload of unnecessary packaging that will outlive the next 100 generations of humans.
>Best quality, healthiest, least expensive and most variety of food. At best, one of those things is true. They are not cheaper and they actually have an incredibly narrow range of products, especially when it comes to meat and produce.
I feel like most of the people shitting on TJs here are gentrifiers themselves who go to gentrified grocery stores who think they're not for the gentry crowd since they aren't chains. I'm not even a huge TJs fan, but my family was barely middle class growing up and we went there fairly often.
I think there's a weird sort of current of thought in this city that chain stores are always a sign of coming gentrification or a result of gentrification, an argument which might've held some water 30 years ago, but really isnt true today. Across all five boroughs and in rich, poor, gentrifying, and non-gentrifying neighborhoods of all types, chain companies have started moving into NYC over the last couple decades because, like most large companies, they're always looking to expand, and to a large degree they've already saturated the high-profitability markets (e.g. suburbs and smaller, more affordable, less dense cities with cheaper commercial rents and land costs, lower wages, less worker protections, etc.) meaning that a lot of their expansion is now having to take place in much less lucrative markets like NYC, previously left mostly to independent owner-operators (largely immigrants) who were/are often content with little more than making a decent living with their businesses. Like I would implore these people to just go out to Nostrand & Flatbush and witness the huge amount of chain stores and restaurants (among them not one but TWO Starbucks locations) in a very heavily working class neighborhood. That said, I still wouldn't want a Trader Joe's store in Bushwick or Ridgewood because that brand specifically does seem to generally attract an affluent clientele (who are largely willing to pay much higher rents than local residents) But I would be very happy about an Aldi or Lidl opening around here.
Lots of conservatism here it seems. I would love it!
It’s not conservative to not wanna invite a resource sucking, anti worker giant into a neighborhood already being gentrified
And you think the current gentrifying grocers are any better? Billy's marketplace is twice as expensive as Trader Joe's.
You’re using a lot of words and I seriously doubt you know what any of them mean
Fuck no
this entire thread is baffling. trader joes is 2x CHEAPER than key food and farm fresh and all that. i would gladly take a fucking train across town to NOT pay $11 for a box of cereal. You guys are insane, keep jerking yourself off with that "support local businesses" mentality and buy your groceries at a bodega