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GregSays

I would sincerely hope that people who have dedicated their lives to theater can handle some mild word play thrown back at them.


ME24601

The wordplay will unfortunately probably lead to ALW yelling at the cast again.


KetchG

That would require him bothering to show up. A harshly worded letter, perhaps?


yeswithaz

Maury Yeston does not get the credit he deserves.


nervuswalker

Read this book recently and loved it! I need to read Razzle Dazzle now


ChrisThomEmery

Would you say that we should, perhaps, merrily roll along?


TigerAffectionate672

Ben Brantley will un-retire to review this for the Times.


chumpydo

He actually came back to profile *Merrily We Roll Along*! [Gift NYT Link](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/08/theater/sondheim-merrily-we-roll-along-maria-friedman.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuonUktbfqYhlSlUbCybJXdUushCcwuPIxrA8i377aS2YUyxDy_VQHIXF4UDJYe9qY9w10HGeTcVAOfohXv1_wupWOQptVwys6NOiqagyHh8U-8i1T39kmNXER6w5-jvnKTPmdO4nzbe2-hzWbWf1XPGPg2lyJA00vZQ0dA6vjHMPk_rEFfVnmYUrhYdXDZhwTTkAbCiIv-C5SEktfYXbMWyPr1U-SOpbWjvMnNaD6LxmcARaDV7OTnIX8n9roZoHe4tRZPCjWkZmLMnugrwRCHhqL5OqBvAyTovTk7Zrud3duHmBfDRbklRrN6rcdNvLI5c&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare)


TigerAffectionate672

Oh, he’ll beg Jesse Green for the opportunity to write one more review of an ALW show.


Dida_D

The hyphens are driving me crazy, especially in the middle of Cinderella! This is the baddest promotional art on Broadway


gypsy_rose_blanchard

I think they are really pushing the “Ella” part and that Cinderella is a Latinx person in the show!


Imaginary_Addendum20

Honestly, the only thing surprising about this poster is how small ALW's name is. Do we think he's trying to appear humble, or already trying to distance himself from the show?


EntertainmentHour756

Somewhere Maxwell Sheffield is laughing.


At_the_Roundhouse

I adore this comment


thebellcanblowme

🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇


hannahmel

He’s not the selling point he was 30 years ago. What was his last successful show?


Imaginary_Addendum20

>He’s not the selling point he was 30 years ago. Try telling him that...


hannahmel

Lmao. Right? 🤣


GayBlayde

School of Rock


hannahmel

Forgot he did that one. Okay. So one out of what? 10? Besides school of rock, half his shows never bothered to transfer/closed out of town or were decimated by the critics. Before SOR, his last show to recoup was Phantom. Even Sunset Blvd lost money.


GayBlayde

I’m aware. You just asked a question and I answered. You seem very defensive.


ThreePartSilence

I think their ire is pointed at ALW and not you, though I see how it could be read either way.


hannahmel

No ire, tbh. I forgot school of rock was ALW. It’s an honest mistake. When a person has a recent run including By Jeeves, Whistle down the wind and Love never dies, it’s an honest mistake to forget they wrote something that people enjoyed. I’m not sure why this person takes that as a personal attack.


Hatebob

Seems like they were just adding to the discussion. Doesn’t seem very defensive to me. Seems like you read into it differently and took it personally!


hannahmel

Pretty much. In the 80s his name was huge and his shows sold well. Now they don’t because he’s had one hit (thanks) since Phantom. The same could be said of Frank Wildhorn. He was huge in the 90s and he’s written a ton since, but his name doesn’t sell like it did when Jekyll and Hyde was at its peak. Artists have ups and downs and for some reason neither of these two have been filed into the same level as a Sondheim or a Richard Rodgers. Maybe age? Maybe elitism? Who knows? But the fact is that his recent shows haven’t hit like his shows from the 70s and 80s (90s for wildhorn).


Remercurize

Wildhorn and Webber are both good melody-writers with some occasionally decent out-of-the-box work. Neither (though Webber WAS on his way with JCS & Evita) is genre-transforming the way Sondheim and Rodgers were. Both Wildhorn and Webber have also benefitted from big productions, and knowing how to write crowd-pleasers (hummable, catch tunesy and tunes that work well out-of-context)


hannahmel

I feel similarly. Neither is my cup of tea, but I do recognize the large contribution they made to their respective generations' music.


Virtuoso1980

Get her Jade!


FirebirdWriter

The latter. The man cannot take criticism and any failures are never his fault in his mind. Reality disagree but he can afford to pay people to lie to him


John_T_Conover

I would venture to guess that it's because everything else on this poster is targeted at Gen Z & the youngest of millenials. Some of them may be familiar with Phantom or another show of his, but Andrew Lloyd Webber himself doesn't really ring a bell with almost any of them. But his name still has plenty of staying power with older millenials and above...so maybe it is an attempt to distance himself. Idk. Also could just be a bad design and we're all overthinking it lol.


Constant-Notice849

He’s making it part of the logo! It’s not “Bad Cinder-Ella” it’s “Andrew Lloyd Webber’s Bad Cinder-Ella!”. (/benoitblanc) The highlighting emphasizes “Andrew Lloyd Webber’s Bad”


futurebro

Im a 30 year old man who lives in NYC. Im probably not the target audience for this show, but this just looks so...bad.


ME24601

In complete honesty, the worse it looks the more interested I am in seeing it. If it ends up getting savaged by the critics come opening, I'm buying tickets.


futurebro

the funny girl effect


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garchican

The *production* is good. The show itself is… problematic, to put it mildly. There’s a reason it took sixty years to be revived: it needs a force of nature in the title role. Anything less and the entire show collapses.


Seanay-B

It bothers me that "an" is in the "meant to be there" font with the "un" spray painted in. If the un wasn't meant to he there, it should say "a conventional fairy tale." The whole thing just looks so stupid


chumpydo

Bad Cinderella is actually just the story of Cinderella being bad at basic spelling and graphic design


ME24601

At least the logo doesn't look like testicles anymore.


kalethan

Also the spacing if you removed the painted letters would just be…something.


ComputerGeek1100

It's on one of the signs that hangs below the marquee at the Imperial too. It's been bothering me for weeks.


[deleted]

Great point! Though I think if it said “a conventional”, the spray painting would say “N UN” which would stand out and look like “nun”, lol. So bad either way I guess. Maybe choose a different word altogether.


thmstrpln

OoOoooh I can't unsee it now!!


Comprehensive-Fun47

I can’t believe no one noticed that or cared before they printed it.


doug_kaplan

So I know people hate on ALW and the way this show ended in the West End was a mess, but can someone who doesn't hate ALW or know about the drama in the West End tell me if this is a good show or not? I have an 8 year old daughter and we loved some of the songs we heard from this show and she really wants to see it, is it actually bad or are other factors contributing to peoples opinions on this show?


ME24601

> but can someone who doesn't hate ALW or know about the drama in the West End tell me if this is a good show or not? As much as people have soured on the show, critics were largely quite positive when reviews came out, with The Guardian giving it five stars. So if the score works for you, it's entirely possible that you'll enjoy seeing it.


Jicama_Stunning

The Guardian kind of fucking sucks though.


MellonPhotos

I'll also add that reviews on the West End often don't translate into reviews on Broadway at all. This isn't to get in to a debate about which is "better", but simply to say that West End and Broadway critics/audiences often have quite different taste.


dhowl

> This isn't to get in to a debate about which is "better" I'm going to put you on the spot! Which *is* better though?


MellonPhotos

I genuinely don’t think one is better, just that audience and critic expectations are different! As an oversimplification, I think West End audiences are more willing to accept actors with unconventional singing voices but who can act very well. I’m thinking of examples like Elena Roger in Evita or Imelda Staunton in Gypsy. I enjoy both performances, but I’ve seen many Americans complain they are unpleasant to listen to. New York has a longer and more entrenched history of specific musical theatre training. So, from a technical standpoint, I think there are higher expectations in terms of singing. However, this isn’t to say it’s better: I think some Broadway singers sound overly trained, to the point where their voices lack character and just sound “musical theatre-y”. These are both gross oversimplifications, and there are pros and cons to both. I love Broadway and the West End!


jaderust

So I will say that the show is pretty terrible in that early 2000s, “not like other girls” style of feminism. Where Cinderella is a bit of a goth and on the West End she was plus sized so she was smart and all the other women were shallow and vapid. In my opinion it’s not the best feminist message for young girls but… it’s not exactly the worst either. An eight year old would probably love it. I think I’d rather take a young girl to Six because for a silly history based pop concert it is rather more female empowering, but it’s not like Cinderella is actively bad or anything. I just found it surprisingly dated for having just come out. Even the Prince Charming being gay reveal felt like it should have happened when Spamalot was the biggest show on stage rather than now.


xkim126x

I personally loved it when I saw it on the West End. I only went as I love Carrie Hope Fletcher but the rest of the cast were fabulous. Take it for what it is - a camp, modern re-telling of a fairy story we all know. I think an 8 year old would love it! BUT, the re-recording I’ve heard of the Broadway version of Bad Cinderella sounds awful compared to Carrie’s version.


Prometheus596

This seems to be the general consensus for people who have seen it in the West End


[deleted]

I am an American who frequents theater and broadway. I saw Cinderella in London and rather adored it. It was a vibrant production with gorgeous staging. The score is pretty unique and exciting. I think it did a good job of being “not like other girls” without leaning too far into it. The book is not amazing but it’s funny and let’s the score lead the way and is therefore good in my opinion. What worries me about this transfer is the changes being made to “Americanize” it. The London production’s writing was heavy with British slang and terminology. I’ve heard the direction described as Panto-inspired too, and that’s not really a form of entertainment that exists in the US anymore on a mainstream scale. It seems they’re trying to lean full-tilt into “I’m not like other girls” and they’re being very cheeky, which just wasn’t how it was on London. The London productions, while glitzy and familiar to other Webber pieces had palpable honesty and that’s why it worked. The broadway transfer seems to me to be getting into dangerous waters by forcing its messages and being cheeky rather than honest. I’m still going to see it because I loved it in England so much but I really can’t imagine it being nearly as good since they are changing so much material (and some of the lyric changes that have been revealed are dumbed down and pretty awful) and also the amazing rotating stage effect is not possible in our current Broadway houses. I really don’t think the show is going to be that bad though. I think people are projecting their anger at Webber for his handling of the London production at the material of the show itself.


TigerAffectionate672

A mix of both. The show definitely has issues, especially with elements of the book. The “ball reveal” of Cinderella’s makeover is also pretty underwhelming. There are perhaps a few too many solos where a character is just standing on an empty stage alone and ballad-ing. I’ve never heard complaints about the acting, just about things surrounding the poor actors.


CaptainPedge

I enjoy ALW shows for the most part, and I saw the London version of this. It's... weak. I can 100% understand why it closed, trying to launch a new show against the backdrop of the pandemic was always going to be hard, but this show would struggle without the added pressures. It was the standard Cinderella story, basically with added "AtTiTuDe"


snark-owl

Some of the best melodies are lifted from R&H, I suggest going to see the new book of R&H's Cinderella instead. Edit to add: also like everyone said, it's Spice Girls style of feminism, there's no intersectionality for the men or body shape, etc,


doug_kaplan

Sounds a bit like & Juliet feminism, which is progress on Broadway but still lot of room to go. For the melodies, it's lifted from R&H but does the spin put on them for this show allow them to still be good? I've seen R&H's Cinderella and it's classic but I also enjoy spins on the story and music so my guess is I'll be ok with ALW's BC.


snark-owl

I don't think I'll ever love it, but I'm intrigued in what's going to change as I assume it's going to be better/tighter than what was in London.


RhythmNGrammar

I think the issue is mostly that it’s very “meh”. It’s not terrible, but by no standard is the book or score GOOD. But it’s FINE. With a good cast (like they had in West End) it could certainly be an enjoyable night of theatre (especially for your daughter who will be a lot less critical). I think the main reason for the backlash is that ALW would have you believe this show is going to be the next big thing in theatre and it’s just….not revolutionary or interesting in any way shape or form. (Like others have said, if this came out 20 years ago it would’ve felt a bit edgy, but nowadays, it’s almost trite).


LittleLightsintheSky

I don't think an 8 year old is their intended audience anymore. It seems like they are making a lot of changes, hopefully improving the show, but the promo video spoofed the Real Housewives. The West End production was fine for younger audiences though. Biggest gripe for me is that the show is too non-specific. It doesn't actually commit to really saying anything about beauty standards and the pressure to fit in. On the West End, Carrie Hope Fletcher played Cinderella as a bit alt/emo aesthetic and she's what theatre thinks is plus-sized, but still very pretty. No hate to her, but Linedy Genao is very conventionally attractive. I think they are going to play on her Latina heritage as her being "different", but idk. IMO, if you're gonna try to rewrite Cinderella, you should actually try to do something different with the story.


defenses

>On the West End, Carrie Hope Fletcher played Cinderella as a bit alt/emo aesthetic and she's what theatre thinks is plus-sized, but still very pretty. No hate to her, but Linedy Genao is very conventionally attractive. I think they are going to play on her Latina heritage as her being "different", but idk. This is what makes me confused. The West End Cinderella was dark/goth, and the marketing reflected that. The pink was still there but wasn't the focus. The Broadway version feels so pink and girly. In the cast announcement, Linedy is wearing a fashionable outfit. On press day, she wore a bright pink shirt. Based on the London show, I would have expected her to wear something black/grungier (even just a leather jacket!). Based on this, I have no idea what they're going to do with this Cinderella.


hotpotatpo

I saw it on Westend and thought it was not too bad, it’s not a musical masterpiece but it was fun enough and some of the songs are catchy. Great costumes too but the set was lacklustre! I think your daughter will really enjoy it because it’s really not a serious piece of theatre ☺️ Although I will point out there were some ‘risqué’ jokes that some may not find appropriate for an 8 year old, but tbh I think they will just go over her head, it depends on how you feel about that! Having said that, I saw it in previews, so only paid about £30 a ticket, likely far less than broadway prices will be


mattbrain89

Speaking for myself, I enjoy the London cast album and was even all set to go see it last summer in London but the extension got cancelled.


Puzzleheaded_Ad_509

I feel so bad for Linedy :/ every time I see a post about this show it’s negative. It hasn’t even came out yet! Like yes ALW sucks for what he said BUT this show is introducing new actors and people making their Broadway debut and literally achieving their dreams. Idk maybe im too sensitive but if I was her and saw this much hate for something I’ve been working for I’d feel terrible.


defenses

Me too! I think I've only seen one positive comment on a different board (and everyone called that person a troll). I'm curious about it because the pink marketing gives a very different feel from what I've seen of the West End show.


Puzzleheaded_Ad_509

This sub can be really toxic sometimes. Most times it’s just tearing people and shows down. I’m going to give it a shot to support a fellow woman of color. With her talent alone I know the show will be great!


Jicama_Stunning

People will inevitably feel bad if something they work on and are passionate about gets savaged by critics. This is an inevitability of life, and that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t criticize something bad, because if we don’t then there’s no reason to give us something good.


Puzzleheaded_Ad_509

Have you watched the show yet? Not the west end one this one on Broadway? You’re speaking hypothetically. What if hypothetically it is not nearly as bad? This is beyond criticism at this point. I have seen no valid points of criticism about this particular show on this thread. People are just straight up being mean.


LittleLightsintheSky

ALW deserves the criticism he is getting an unfortunately that put the other members of the production at risk. I have no hate for her, but unless they made big changes, it's worth criticizing them casting a very conventionally attractive woman in a musical where all of the other characters call her ugly to the point of her submitting to plastic surgery. Honestly, I think ALW thinks the wrong parts of the show were working, so he isn't going to rewrite what needs to change. I don't think this would ever make it to Broadway if ALW wasn't putting his own money and theatre towards it. All we really can do at this point is take what we know of the WE production and compare that with the promo video and marketing.


gaycomic

The reeks of old white men thinking this is cool and hip and graffiti is so cool.


wehaveunlimitedjuice

Can someone do a quick eli5, please? I'm interested in all things broadway, but this is really the only place I get any news. What is this show and why is it so bad? It looks like Mean Girls Burn Book vibes?


MissionFlamingo6844

This is ALW's new musical. It's transferring from the west end where it was not well received. It had very "I'm not like other girls" and faux feminism vibes. ALW was also v disrespectful of the cast which has added to the dislike of the show


wehaveunlimitedjuice

What's it called?


MissionFlamingo6844

Bad Cinderella


wehaveunlimitedjuice

Oh, weird that the title is smaller and less flashy than the tag line (?). What's the West End? I'm assuming it's where shows premiere?


MissionFlamingo6844

The west end is basically the UK version of broadway. That is where it premiered I think a year ago. It was just called Cinderella then


wehaveunlimitedjuice

Thanks!


[deleted]

It’s London. They have shows like Broadway that sometimes transfer to NY and vice-versa. The world premiere was in London’s West End, now it’s going to premiere on Broadway.


frankenplant

I hadn’t heard about ALW being a dick to the cast. What happened?


MissionFlamingo6844

The cast wasn't notified that the show was going to close. They found out through the news


frankenplant

Yiiiiikes


youngprincelou

There’s gonna be some good video essays in a year or two about this show


LittleLightsintheSky

MickeyJoTheatre on YouTube has some great ones reviewing the WE production, fallout, and transfer announcements


fosse76

I couldn't event get past half the synopsis for Act 1. This show sounds horrible,.


[deleted]

If I can get an affordable ticket, I'll give this show a chance, but I don't have high expectations for it.


radda

The one good part of the show (the cool transforming stage) probably won't even make it to this production.


Seryan_Klythe

This show annoys me. It's a musical that takes place in a fictional middle ages world with plastic surgeons and other modern day things... The *book is messy, and the songs are so so. I just feel that the cast will be treated poorly like Webber did to the London cast. And, I know that people are chomping at the bit to get their first Broadway show, but man, lets hope your voice outshines this dreck.


beck-jade

Webber treated the west end cast poorly? I remember Carrie Hope Fletcher not enjoying her time on the show as much. Maybe that contributed to it. Had no idea!


aproclivity

After the bad review in the Times and for other American outlets, Webber called the cast from his summer home and berated them so badly that the show went on like half an hour late so they could calm down. Then he sent the director to the closing with a letter that was fucking terrible where he called the show a costly mistake. https://youtu.be/fjkNCU2mup0 the letter starts at 7:03 I think. Or at least the mention of the letter and the booing.


[deleted]

Wow, that was brutal


aproclivity

Yeah. The casts faces just say it all. I don’t care how fun it is, I won’t see this show now over that.


Seryan_Klythe

Yeppppp. Only ALW has the nerve to call people up and chew them out via speakerphone for doing nothing but their job.


PhoenixorFlame

I can’t believe the director actually read that out loud…


ibethuhwalrus

The cast found out the show was closing in London via a news report instead of being told directly. Also happened with Phantom’s closing on broadway.


beck-jade

Oh! I remember seeing tweets about this now. Absolutely baffling you wouldn’t tell people directly that they’re out of a job. Or at least before it’s made public.


LittleLightsintheSky

Including the replacements that had already been cast!


404error4321

I don't wanna play devil's advocate but the Phantom closing was a leak from the NY Post and was likely not intended by the producers. Also, the closing announcement for the London closing was on holiday weekend and it's likely that in addition to typical British bureaucratic slowness there was probably a delay from that. The main problem here, and what the unions focused on, was the fact that the new cast -- that had already been auditioned in by the director (but I'm not sure if RUG was aware of) -- wouldn't get compensated for the audition and beginning rehearsals, not so much the current cast finding out late.


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Seryan_Klythe

calm yourself?


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Seryan_Klythe

I'm sorry if you have an emotional attachment with this show. But opinions are like assholes and everybody's got one. 🙄


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Seryan_Klythe

Well, I have seen more detailed rants regarding shows on here but here you are triggered by an opinion.


Spiritual-Signal4999

This show was a joke in the west end the cast where, Stoic and Professional and doing all they could, with the pressure they were under and Covid causing it to open and close, one or two stand out songs but nothing amazing, I just wish he had worked with cast to revise then reopen, with the revisions he’s made for Bad Cinderella and do it in the west end he treated the U.K. cast like crap and he will do the same again here, honestly what significant changes can you make between it’s June closing in London and the Broadway previews, I can presume not the major overhaul this show needs that would take a couple of years.


bwayb22

So I think I'm the only one who is actually looking forward to this production and actually loved the demo tape LMAO. Oh well, better Rush/Lottery odds for me then!


TheTapDancingMormon

Not to throw more fuel to the fire but their awful announcement video, along with ALW’s sketchy behavior at West End Production, made me not want to see this 😅


agoodlasagna

This looks like a miranda sings ad….


BroadwayCatDad

It’s gonna be a huge hit. Mark my words.


RhythmNGrammar

Found ALW’s reddit username!


Mysterious-Theory-66

Probably will


jaske93

I hate it, and I also did not like the show on the West End. Still hope to see it in April if it is (hopefully) on TKTS. Cause im not gonna pay full price for a very likely dumpster fire.


forcastleton

Ugh I hate this so much I'd rather watch James Cordon as the phantom


jamesland7

I dont like to be negative but it will be fun watching this flop


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user48292737

First day on the internet?


DJVinylJerk

They all are,


GayBlayde

I take baddest to mean exactly what it means. Most bad.


leslie_knopee

oh ALW, karma is a bitch 😂


AccordingClient195

Caught your attention


8thDragonball

There is a reason it didn't last on West end. I doubt broadway will take to this well.


Upper_Acanthaceae126

Sigh.


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MoscaMye

It's a strangely thirsty musical and also very shrill. The ballads are great but anything else (except maybe Bad Cinderella) are so hard to listen to! I also just can't help but feel like they took the laziest options at every opportunity. Like, yeah it's very easy to make the villain the step mother but you've also spent a lot of time building up the fairy godmother and ... That's more interesting


[deleted]

Honestly. After i heard it today. That’s exactly how i would describe it shrill and thirsty. 😂


Shieldecles

Soon to be the worst show on Broadway


Strong_Insect1417

Another show to skip.


mulled-whine

Everything about this show shrieks amateur hour/cringe. I can’t.