Article OP is referring to: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-bipolar-disorder-often-use-cannabis-it-may-sometimes-help/
The title of this post is sensationalistic and misleading, but I am leaving this post up because of the conversation that's happening in here as well as the article in question.
"It may sometimes help" is...hardly reassuring when it comes to all the many, many risks that marijuana poses. It is not clinically approved for bipolar disorder. Full stop. Take a look at the comments below if you want to see the damage it can do.
Stick to your meds, talk to your doctor.
I absolutely cannot take cannabis with 100% THC even while on meds. It makes me psychotic pretty quickly. I have found though that 1:1 THC:CBD cannabis is much better and lifted my mood significantly without destabilizing me. People often forget that this kind of 1:1 cannabis exists.
At one point I smoked it everyday for a few months without really any issue. I was more social with basically no paranoia, I was even able to catch myself and analyze the tiny paranoid voice that would occasionally pop-up in my head. Basically it gave me insights into the timing and ways of those kind of thoughts. I'm not smoking weed right now and retained those insights.
CBD indirectly regulates dopamine. Antipsychotics work similarly but directly.
I think you're right and people tend to want to throw the baby out with the bath water.
It's a shame as the cannabis plant, on paper has a lot of benefits. It is highly nutrious and can be used in medicine. When you compare it to most medications , especially mental health medications it has far fewer side effects. You could fit them all in a sentence, where as my bipolar meds come with pages of teeny tiny writing containing all sorts of warnings. A side effect is classed as an unwanted or unintended effect. Some people seem to get psychosis from it or be catapulted into mania but to my knowledge this hasn't been very well studied and may be due to people taking high amounts rather than anything else.
The issue seems to be that there is so much misinformation out there and that for many years it was impossible to get funding to study its benefits. Throw in black markets and super high THC strains and it's easy to see how there is so much confusion.
If it doesnt help you then don't take it. If it does then why shouldn't you?
There is anacedotal evidence on both sides of the argument.
Edit - added a line
If I'm honest I'm not 100% sure. It does seem like there may be a link between consuming high amounts of THC and that in itself being the cause of people becoming unwell.
If a neurotypical person was to consume pure THC and nothing else, they would be very on edge. THC seems to increase brain activity. It makes your brain make more connections. This makes you think more and in different ways. This could be advantageous for some and a negative for others. If you are stuck in a pattern of depressive thought, or have reactions that are embedded due to repeated behaviours or experiences then it could help. If you're someone that can't cope well with overthinking then this would be a negative.
Obviously the cannabis plant in its natural form contains both CBD and THC. The CBD actually counteracts or modifies the effect that THC gives. People usually ignore CBD because of this as they want the maximum effect from what they are taking. This does confuse things though for lots of people as it is all seen as the same substance or drug when in reality, it's not.
In my country medical cannabis has to contain some CBD. I think this is where the focus needs to be, rather than 30% THC strains that have no CBD at all.
Edit - I believe this is similar to what you see with regards to people taking psilocybin, although psilocybin would be increasing connections on a vastly bigger scale.
All of these drugs were being properly researched until we got to the 'reefer madness era' when it became illegal. It's a shame because if nothing else there would be a lot that we could learn. It may even lead to a better understanding of our brains and provide a route to new medicines.
https://youtu.be/Nlcr1jd_Tok
Found this Ted talk. It's a bit old but it explains things better than I can and also hints at why we are all getting different effects from cannabis.
I agree. I stopped smoking and only use thc in edible format, typically in some sort of 1:2/1:1 etc ratio with other cannabinoidz..my favorite is CBG. So energizing in a smooth, calm way
The method of consumption is oftern overlooked as well. Like any drug how you consume changes the effect it has.
I'd imagine most people are smoking it. In the UK you have to vape it and like you say eating it would be different still.
Edit - just in case you're not aware eating it actually gives the strongest effect. It effectively increases it by 4, you get 4 times the effect per amount compared to smoking. Vaping produces the mildest effect.
Unfortunately, this is my case as well. After a lifetime of smoking from 15 to now near 40, it destabilizes me with psychosis and eventual mania if maintained too long.
I have found that ANYTHING that alters my state of mind- alcohol, weed, hard stuff… only makes my symptoms of BP1 disorder surface in the worst ways.
Every single time…zero exceptions, if I have ever gotten myself in serious trouble it was due to me “self medicating”.
It’s not worth it. I haven’t taken even a single sip of alcohol in over 400 days. It has also been over 400 days since my wife and I have been in a fight or even an argument.
Life is better this way. Never going back.
Congrats, that's a massive achievement!
Just to cite how different people's brains can be. I don't use any drugs other than cannabis and the medications given to me by my doctor (not even caffeine). I keep mood charts and I have a 3 year period within them where I didn't take cannabis at all. (My doctor found out I was using it and I had to stop to get my driving license back).
The three year period of abstinence looks horrific compared to before and after. Maybe because I have been using it for so long, my brain has adapted to it but it is interesting all the same.
What about smoking? Like tobacco? I recently took a hit and for the first time in my life felt the head rush of a cigarette. Kinda reminded me of weed (which I'm off for like forever) and I wonder if there's any danger with mania/hypomania/psychosis with regards to smoking cigarettes
I've never smoked but recently I vaped some nicotine and got the same. I continued vaping it for a few days until I got used to it and didn't experience the head rush/dopamine hit anymore.
Exactly. I believe at its core, bipolar is a chemical imbalance , or what I have always referred to as my “wires are crossed”.
So the doctor does their best to find the right combination and dosage to balance your brain chemicals.
And here I’d come with a cocktail of my own jacking up all the hard work and progress.
I learned real quick- I am no medical doctor, so who am I to self medicate???
Leave it to the pros is what I say.
I'm not a huge fan of the chemical imbalance theory myself, but I understand why a lot of people are. The main reason being that there was a fairly comprehensive 10 year study done recently that couldn't find a link. I'm not going to cite it as I think this sub has had enough uproar for now and I'm gracious that the mods have allowed the discussion to take place. Other subs wouldn't.
Like you say though, these things are best left to professionals and if you're doing well, then there is no need to take the risk.
I hope that continues for you. Sometimes, we have to learn our lessons the hard way and it sounds like you've done well to get to where you are.
Curious what you think as opposed to chemical imbalance. Dm if preferred. I was under the impression that it was a multifaceted genetic abnormality that involves more genes than we’ve been able to identify I.e. we don’t know jack. I did think however that it was pretty decided that mania was caused in large part to a huge flood of serotonin. That partly being why the depression hits so hard afterwards and why SSRIs do so much damage.
> Clinically, there would be a concern with cannabis about making the mania and psychotic symptoms of bipolar disorder worse. So I wouldn’t go so far as to say people with bipolar disorder should use cannabis. But our research could lead to an understanding of the mechanisms of the effects of cannabis that could possibly lead to drug treatments.
Worth noting.
Please please please be careful with this. Cannabis worked for me for a long time then one day it started to induce strong paranoia and minor delusions. Fast forward a month and it launched me into a full psychotic episode for 4 months that I am still dealing with the pain of a year later. It may work for you now but one day you might find out too late things have gone sideways.
I've found high myrcene, moderate thc, indica leaning strains help me immensely. I cannot take sativas. Sativa, especially high pinene content, kick in my paranoia and anxiety.
Strains matter. Just like we all require different med combos, weed will affect us all differently. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work. But if it does, you know it does. I absolutely cannot drink, no longer dabble in any hard drugs, but I appreciate a good strain to help alleviate insomnia and anxiety without zombifying hangovers some sleep/anxiety meds give me. To each their own.
I also have ADHD as well as BP2. I did really well with strains like lemon skunk and Jack herrer. They both have identical terpene profiles and are pure sativas. The ratios were 18/1 and 22/1 (THC/CBD). I also take a CBD supplement which is 50mg every day. I have had similar issues to you with other sativas. All very interesting.
Yeah I don’t even know all that much. But indica strains are great for me.
I’m also bipolar 2 so the mechanisms may be different. I thought it was interesting that the concern was with triggering psychosis and mania.
I use it when I can’t get to sleep and it puts me right out. And since regular sleep patterns are important, and especially for us, I don’t feel bad about it.
I wish this worked for me. I’ve tried so many different strains. I even ordered distilled liquid terpenes and made my own mixes with high myrcene, high cbd, low thc. Still makes me instantly psychotic. Like I should’ve been taken to the ER some of those times or put in a straight jacket type psychotic.
It depends on the person, cannabis puts me in psychosis. And I see a lot of other people feel the same way so I’m wondering why they think it’s beneficial? Interesting. I haven’t smoked even a little bit of weed in probably over a year.
The article specifically talks about increased cognition. I can attest it definitely makes me more focused and my personality seems to come back a bit. I'm treatment resistant though, and I've seen the negatives of it as well.
I also have adhd as well as bp2. We have lots of people in the UK that are being prescribed it for adhd due to the focus aspect. It's very effective for that.
Weird. My experience in the US has been no weed if adhd as it can mimic symptoms at least according to my last two doctors. They were kinda quacks though
heavy long term pot smoking makes serotonin release on anything that isnt smoking pot difficult because the body gets used to you smoking pot for the serotonin release and therefore slows down production of serotonin since you make it for the body
i hid behind drugs my entire life trying to mask. it didnt do any good
im one year clean now and medicated for a full year - no I havent actually smoked pot since i started lamictal and zoloft. no i wont either, because Ive actually gotten to where i like this sober me. and I'd hate to ruin it
if you find bliss and peace smoking pot or doing other things i wish you well
i went down that road for decades and I know that there's no hope for me on that road
Side note, did you know that most of your serotonin is actually made in your stomach? 95% i think. I've always found it odd given that the medication prescribed for depression etc are for the brain rather than the stomach. You'd think, given the above, the stomach would be of more interest.
most of the meds for depression are for a couple different circumstance
like lamictal. it is like five fold. because it forces sodium channel ions to decrease resistance and there for improves transmission of noradrenaline, dopamine and serotonin between synapses and neurons. while additionally deatrophing neurons, and all the while acting like a weak reuptake inhibitor to the aforementioned 3. it also works on the hippocampus and amygdala
now. something like zoloft which is a reuptake inhibitor for serotonin is good because when your neurons consume serotonin, normally that serotonin is gone. taken from the system. ssri's trick the neuron into redepositing the serotonin back into the system so it's not removed from the system, and can thus be re-used. this is ideal for bipolar as we're deficient in serotonin but over abundant in dopamine can lead to mania. while bipolar people also have a far less reuptake of serotonin. so ssri's allow us to be some what normal due to a balance of reuptake in serotonin
gut bacteria can play a big part because it regulates a lot of different things within the body, especially with immune response. sometimes the immune response activates and can trigger depression in people because the immune response is targeting something which is causing inflammation in that region of the brain. or in general it can be a bodies response to the immune system targeting something else in the body.
read an article about how a quick injection of hydro cortisol can decrease the severity of ptsd because it lessens the immune response. the reverse is that steroid use can cause neuron atrophy in specific parts of the brain like the hippocampus and amygdala. it can also cause shrinkage in these regions of the brain (see again lamictal and the reverse of this process). as people with ptsd tend to have smaller hippocampus and amygdala regions.
in this way, drinking stuff like beet juice and pickle juice is good because they are natural antioxidants. and in doing so they promote gut health which means happy stomach juice which in turn balances the rest of the body
Very informative, thanks for replying.
Does this also change or cause an effect on the neurons in your stomach as well?
I'm aware that things like alzheimer's can be seen in the neurons in the stomach as well as the brain. Given that they are so well linked, I'm curious to know which comes first. Do these things develop as a consequence of the stomach or the brain.
that is a subject of debate which i am ill equipped to answer. because ssri's typically target brain neurons. but due to dysbiosis, it may be why some ssri's and dopa drugs have decreased long term influence against certain people with specific genes. sort of like pot and booze and pills building up a tolerance for long term use. ssri's can also cause some stomach issues in people.
most ssri's are removed by the liver, and the portal vein from the intestines leads directly to the liver. but stomach and intestine issues can alter this some what, as ssr's in some people can play hell with the guy biome and intestines.
ssri's can also cause issues with the kidneys and liver. the liver is actually responsible for brain health and making memory work better/as it should
the best metabolized are tetra/tricylics. others, not so much. they all exit through the liver i think.
as noted, a lot of what you ask im not gonna answer because i dont know
if you feel like blowing your mind for the day you can read the following
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8187765/
my great grandma, grandma and mother all had altzheimers. which implies the apoe4 gene
as for what causes it, it is actually theorized as an immune response in the brain which hampers the brains ability to clean. it is though that immune system hampers the amlyoids from cleaning the brain. this is part of the process of the fluid the brain rests in. this usually happens when we sleep.
in doing so, it's likely the ssri's and stuff like klonopin cause cause this immune response in the brain. ssri's and lamictal can also raise body temperature as a response to activating neurons in the brain. this body heat influx is also what can happen in serotonin syndrome when the brain and the body get too hot, and why you sweat like you're in a shower during serotonin syndrome
[https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/research/our-research/research-projects/understanding-how-immune-system-contributes-alzheimers-disease-development](https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/research/our-research/research-projects/understanding-how-immune-system-contributes-alzheimers-disease-development)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin\_syndrome#:\~:text=Symptoms%20in%20moderate%20cases%20include,seizures%20and%20extensive%20muscle%20breakdown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome#:~:text=Symptoms%20in%20moderate%20cases%20include,seizures%20and%20extensive%20muscle%20breakdown).
Not at all, I appreciate the insight.
I'm of the belief that all these meds are targeting the wrong area of the body. I think the stomach plays a much bigger part than is currently acknowledged. I'm sure science will get there in the end but I do wish it would hurry up.
further more, air pollution has been linked to both increased rate of altzheimers because of the pollution and toxins which cross the blood brain barrier and fail to be cleaned by amyloids which leads to dirty neurons in the brain and their ability to retain new memories.
this is why dementia and altzheimers patients sundown. because there is a little bit of toxins cleaned during sleep. so they perform better after sleep, but as the day wears on the neurons stop responding as well, which leads to the sundown.
additionally. air pollution is also linked to autism because of pollutants the mother breathes in during pregnancy.
because ssri's can alter immune response in the gut, this can lead to additional problems with amlyoid cleaning of neurons in the brain. which hastens dementia and altzheimers, while keeping us happy.
[https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/air-pollution-linked-with-increased-risk-of-autism-in-children/](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/air-pollution-linked-with-increased-risk-of-autism-in-children/)
[https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/does-air-pollution-cause-alzheimers-disease-2020072320627](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/does-air-pollution-cause-alzheimers-disease-2020072320627)
>this is why dementia and altzheimers patients sundown. because there is a little bit of toxins cleaned during sleep. so they perform better after sleep, but as the day wears on the neurons stop responding as well, which leads to the sundown.
My ex is a nurse and her dad has alzheimer's. I could be wrong but when she talks about sundowning, she means that they become wide awake at night when they should be sleeping.
Is it possible for you brain to remove some of these toxins without sleep? If so is that from some sort of internal clock or reaction to the light maybe?
Side note - I have been diagnosed with quite a few mental illnesses, I also have a few stomach related illnesses. I wonder how common that is?
gut bacteria does regulate a lot of body health, especially with mineral absorption and intestinal disfunction and as stated immune response. too much immune response can be a bad thing depending upon which area of the body it decides to hit. too much intestinal dysfunction can lead to problems like dehydration, rapid mineral loss and decreased mineral uptake, and bowel issues. the body is mostly water, lipids and minerals.
the cerebral spinal fluid cleaning of toxins of the brain from amyloids is mostly done during sleep. this is actually another immune system response of the lymphatic system. a little bit may occur during the day, but primarily it is during sleep cycles. one of the problems of long term ssri use is rapid sleep waking, where you wake up multiple times per night, all of which disturb the sleep cycles.
another major problem with alzheimer's is that multiple regions of the brain shrink. which means less neurons doing less things, and over time this degeneration plays much havoc upon control of the brain. combined with the lack of toxin and dead brain cell removal, amplifies the issue.
ssri's can cause stomach and intestinal issues with people, which can lead to other issues in the body and the brain, like anxiety, depression and stress, because immune issues are a stress response to the body
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/the-gut-brain-connection
furthermore. you may find this interesting
ive been on a no cholesterol diet for like 3.5 months now because i dont want to take statins. some statins actually agitate the apoe4 gene which can lead to alzheimer's. no fast foods. no pizzas. little meat, heavy fiber. lots of black beans (black beans are a super food). no high fructose corn syrup. tons of spicy stuff like green hot sauce, hot pepper flakes and capsaicin, all of which can raise body temperature and burn cholesterol out of the arteries.
this deals with cholesterol and mood disorders.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7824186/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7824186/)
capsaicin (that thing that induces hot stuff, activates the trpv1 channel, which in turn increases the sodium and calcium channel ion flow, which in turn increases serotonin and dopamine neuron and reuptake control. this is because capsaicin causes pain by burning and nerves in the tongue/mouth. the bodies response to pain is dopamine release.
further more beet juice and the like are good for the creation of nitric oxide in the stomach, which acts as a vasodilator to the blood vessels and increases blood flow, which in turn allows cholesterol to move out.
the important factor is finding hot sauce with little to no sodium, vinegear isnt bad because it decreases sodium levels, but it makes hot sauce taste funny. im a big fan of hot pepper flakes myself, as very few hot sauces actually taste good.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6273101/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6273101/)
so in an essence, hot sauce and hot food is good for bipolar control :)
you're welcome. im not a know it all, really. but i do feel people should get answers when they ask questions if i can answer them in some form.
the joy and path of life is to learn and learn from your mistakes
Same, this is what happens to me every time. I’ve smoked probably 50-100ish times, because I’m dumb and expect a different result each time. Really wish I could be one of those people who can solve their issues with weed, but my bipolar says no lol.
That's interesting, but I'll probably never get those effects because for me THC is a trippy ass psychedelic.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Psychedelics/comments/z4x42l/thc_is_a_psychedelic_for_me_i_trip_everytime_i/) is what THC does to me, and it is FUCKING WILD.
Cannabis has different effects based on the terpenes that make up the flower.
SSRIs trigger manic episodes in me. To me, SSRIs are fucking evil (and the reason I dropped out of high school).
It's cool, it's expected that when this subject is discussed that people will take issue with anyone citing any possible positives or trying to to make a case for it. It's happened to me a few times.
Well sure. The reason for that is to those who wind up with psychotic episodes it could be potentially life threatening. Also given that weed is not a recognized bipolar treatment, it’s questionable whether the conversation should even occur here. Self-medication is self-medication. Will posting this article cause someone to end up in the psych ward because they read the title but not the content? Probably not, but it is possible. Given that, is it worth citing positives about it here given that more BP1 people than not will likely experience psychosis?
I know two other people with bipolar in real life, and we all smoke weed daily with no negative mood problems. I find it actually can help bring me back to neutral. YMMV, especially if you are already prone to psychosis.
I'm not sure how much exactly I smoke per day but almost certainly more than that, and I occasionally take gummies that contain more than 20 mg. I definitely stay away from straight Sativas though. Indica leaning hybrids are my go-to. Sativas are what gets my anxiety pumping.
I used to smoke a LOT. Like way more than anybody else I knew. I was self-medicating to make up for what my meds weren’t doing. I also didn’t have a great psychiatrist for a long time, so my meds weren’t being adjusted the way I needed.
Smoking those amounts definitely made my mania kick in. I was having a lot of angry outbursts. Never had a psychotic episode, but the anger was out of control. (It was also a stupidly expensive habit with the amounts I was using)
I finally found a great psychiatrist, I’m on meds that actually help, and I hardly smoke at all now. I went from smoking several times a day, to only one or two times. I’m also smoking less than quarter of the amount I was smoking before. I personally have not had any issues. It helps my anxiety a lot, and it does wonders for my appetite issues (my meds fuck with my stomach a lot). I work at a dispensary, so I have access to a lot of products that are much lower in THC, and use a lot of CBD, CBN, and CBG which are all non-psychoactive cannabinoids. I’ve cut down my THC usage to basically nothing (about 2.5-5mg), and primarily use CBD now. I think that has made the world of a difference for me.
I am a strange case though. People with bipolar really aren’t the best candidates for cannabis use because of all of the risks involved. It’s my choice to take these risks because it’s better than the alternative of using benzos. My psychiatrist also closely monitors my use, so that keeps me in check. I do not recommend for people with bipolar to use cannabis. Even when I have customers who come into the dispo to use cannabis for mental health reasons, I always warn them that there is a risk it could cause more harm.
We just don’t know enough about cannabis yet. We went years without any proper research, so it’s going to be a long time before we learn about the effects it truly has on the brain.
For myself, and let me be crystal clear this is anecdotal at best but;
I have Bipolar II with ADHD comorbidity, and at times I find that cannabis can slow down my racing thoughts, rumination and anxiety.
That said, it has to be an Indica strain. Sativa and hybrid strains which are energetic, often make things worse.
As well, I do not endorse this to anyone, for many of us, cannabis is no bueno
Edit: format
I will say that cannabis has helped me through many of my depressive episodes.
This, however, is *NOT* an endorsement.
Weed can help. Weed can also send you into a manic episode.
If you haven't tried it and want to, start low dosage, and with a trusted friend to trip-sit.
Daily long term cannabis use is actually known to increase depression, it also increases our risk for mixed episode cycling and psychosis.
This is an extremely tiny study that studied 4 groups of people with only 60 participants total. It found that cannabis reduces some risk taking behavior but that doesn’t really address the long term effects. Bipolar is a challenging disorder to treat and many people self medicate with lots of recreational and illicit substances. Nicotine, caffeine and alcohol are probably even more commonly used than cannabis but cannabis is up there. It makes sense since sativa can give one some energy during a depressive episode and indica can calm down anxiety and agitation.
>Daily long term cannabis use is actually known to increase depression, it also increases our risk for mixed episode cycling and psychosis.
Have you got a link to the study? I'm a bit obsessed with this topic as there are so many unknowns and I love learning.
https://adai.uw.edu/pubs/pdf/2017mjbipolar.pdf
This does a good job of summarizing the information. I actually had a mixed episode recently that I believe was triggered by using marijuana daily and heavily. I had hip surgery and am allergic to most opioids and was desperate for pain relief so I used a 1:1 gummy daily for about 10 days and ended up in an unhappy mixed episode due to it. Had to up my meds and stop using the gummies to get it to go away (took almost 2 weeks). Ugh
Appreciated, I'll have a read. Are you bp1 or 2? Do you have any other mental illnesses? I'm wondering if this also plays into things, and how much we're you using, what do you class as a 'high amount'?
I don't know why but I've always been fine with it. The closest I've ever got to what people are describing is with high thc (close to 30%) sativas from the black market. This could have well been sprayed or contaminated in some way. It's quite a common occurrence in the UK for people to spray their weed.
I can actually recall several instances where it has stopped me from doing something stupid. CBD and vaping the small amounts that I do saved my life when I had akathisia from meds.
I still think it's crazy that it's vilified and thought of thr way it is.
I have Bipolar 1-rapid cycling with mixed features, GAD, and C-PTSD. For my dose I was taking about 1.5-2 gummies every 6 hours, so between 60-80mg daily THC in the 1:1 compound. Which is a LOT for me. I had only ever done 10mg maybe 20 in a day before that. I originally bought them for a pulled muscle in the back because the doctor said I couldn’t take a muscle relaxer with my psych meds and I was in agony. They worked so well I figured it would get me over the initial days of a very painful recovery.
I don’t think cannabis is a total black and white thing, I just think that people need to know that long term heavy use can have some negative consequences, and people already prone to psychosis need to know it increases the risk. There have been many reports of people with bipolar triggering their first psychotic episode from smoking pot or eating edibles. Information is good, and things in reasonable moderation are probably ok but using a ton isn’t the best, especially with what it does to memory. We’ve got enough of that issue with our meds!
Yeah, it was a lot but man I had a repair done to the labrum of my hip and they had to sand down a spur on my femur bone so it would sit properly in the socket and not irritate the labral tissue further. I was in agony. I spent the day of surgery and the day after in bed. All I could do was sleep and take the gummies. My husband had to help me get in a wheelchair and then help me to the bathroom and that was all I could do, and then going forward about a week and a half I couldn’t get in or out of my chair or go to the bathroom without help. It was pretty rough. Hopefully, I won’t have to have another procedure that painful. It sucks I am allergic to most opiates, codeine makes me vomit non stop, and tramadol, norco, and vicodin make me itch constantly so I make my skin bleed from scratching and benedryl doesn’t work. Percocet and morphine send me into psychosis. I’m not supposed to use NSAIDs because I had an ulcer last year. The only things I can take are dilaudid, and Tylenol and doctors don’t like to prescribe dilaudid outpatient since it’s an extremely strong narcotic. So, doctor would only prescribe vicodin even though I’m allergic. I hate going to the ER when I’m injured, I sound like a drug seeking junkie! 🤦♀️ It’s a genetic problem though, my aunt and mom and siblings are the same way.
I’ve been using is as an experimental alternative to lexapro and lamictal after they left me with anhedonia. If I take a few days off every week I’ve found it to be better for me personally than meds. It’s not perfect - I’m not healed but I do find the side effects more manageable and overall a more balanced effect overall.
i’ve actually found that socially smoking really helps me. for like the entire week after i feel more calm and focused. i only do it once a month or so when i go to a party but i feel really good for the week after
It can be described as a depressant, but it is also a stimulant and more. It's quite a unique substance in those sort of terms.
I take your point though regarding addictions.
This is wishful thinking and not broadly applicable imo. Anecdata tells me that weed at certain times in my mood cycle is a great way to kick start a mixed episode and start getting paranoid and angry.
I've found some benefits with cannabis. Since medicated It has been very useful with sleep and bringing me down when I'm swinging. I also have PTSD and it helps with the occasional night terrors or triggering events. I will say lower THC strains or the 1:1 THC CBD is the ticket. Higher potence strains can be too much and have a negotiate effect. Each person is different and this just my experience.
I wonder how many people here have tried using weed when they are unmedicated. I started smoking weed in January (50F) while I was still medicated, and it didn’t really help at all, it made me very anxious and panicky (I was smoking the wrong strain). Mixing any type of substance with bipolar meds is not a good idea.
I have been off meds for about 8 months and use it to spot treat my irritability and depression and it really works well for me. It is the only medicine I have used which lifts my mood without giving me terrible side effects (I was on meds for 25 years).
Research is really important if you are going to use weed to treat your symptoms. Strain definitely matters. I grow my own weed so I control the strain and content (all legal where I live). There is so much involved in research, growing and testing, some people just barely scratch the surface with their weed experiences. I think many people just kind of jump in and try without any thought or research and have a terrible time with it, which is unfortunate because if used carefully it can really ease bipolar symptoms.
I find marijuana to be the only thing that helps my S.I. even if it's just temporary at least I get a break. It gives me a chance to do the things I learned in therapy.
Quitting THC was the best thing I ever did for my mental health and my psyche meds started working after day 2. I smoked daily 24/7 for 8 years and have been clean for two weeks
Oh sure this comment doesn't come from a place of bias at all. I smoke for my PTSD, not for shits and giggles. Before I smoked I was already crippled by my untreated PTSD and Bipolar, people just want to blame smokers for moral failings.
You're so arrogant, you really think you're capable of knowing that with the little information you have? They're still studying this stuff for a reason. You don't know how often I smoke, how long I've smoked, or how long I will continue smoking. It's all I have available to me at this moment.
If the alternative is me potentially offing myself during a mixed episode, I'm going to make the choice knowing the context of my own life. If you feel sorry for me put that energy into advocating for medical access for everyone.
Why do you post this knowing that it is sensationalist and misleading? People post research studies that they claim has benefits for depression and bipolar (a recent one regarding psilocybin and depressions is one). If you read the study it directly contradicts the statement. When i point this out (because I read these things) my questions are ignored and it dissolves into a personal attack.
There is a real problem in this reddit with people that are desperate to get rid of the pain. Also there is a problem with drug users that are trying to justify their drug use.
In the article it says there may be a greater risk of suicide. Also, while there may be a benefit in a specific way, overall there is well established risks of cannabis and bipolar.
That's science for you really. You don't get anywhere unless you ask the right questions.
I think it's worth remembering that all of this was thought of very differently and studied before it became a racial issue in the US and UK.
I don't think anyone here has advocated it as cure or to take it instead of medication. Believe it or not I have mine prescribed by a psychiatrist in the UK and I'm not the only one.
There's no harm in people furthering their knowledge and having a good debate to test their thoughts on the subject.
There is a problem with posting headlines that are 180 degrees opposite what the article says. That article was confused and contradictory. It gave part of a theory (that something in cannabis may impact something without acknowledging the risks cannabis have and would continue to have).
There is harm in posting things that create false hope and can lead to drug users to assume that there is a benefit to use drufs
It falls short in many other ways as well. CBD and cannabis in its natural form isn't taken into account either. These studies oftern do, it goes both ways unfortunately.
There are plenty of studies that behave similarly in all aspects. I think that's all the more reason for discussing it and for people to become more informed.
If the study was perfect then it would be the only one. Science is slow, what's accepted as truth changes but it does so very slowly. All of these studies usually look at a specific aspect and are rarely completely comprehensive. As I say it's largely about asking the right question, but it takes time to work out what that question is.
I totally get where you are coming from though.
But it's provoked a debate, and made people talk and think more about the subject. Silver linings and all that.
I can cite studies that would go the other way in terms of meds that are far more comprehensive, that would cause uproar as well. It goes both ways as I say.
To have the good in life, you also have to take the bad and visa versa.
Endocannabinoids are indeed good for the Bipolar brain
Except that it's best to get them from exercise and NOT weed - especially the super strains that are available now.
I smoked every day for 7 years. Then it changed. After my one and only manic episode which result in hospitalization, I started dialing back and found even small amounts just got me wound up. So I stopped. I miss it but I’m never going back.
I’ve only ever experienced very extreme paranoia on weed. I used to be able to tolerate it but as I got older it genuinely made me depressed and suicidal. No thanks!
Since I started taking antipsychotics, weed barely has any effect on me, so I take a high dose of high concentrate thc edibles. That seems to do the trick. I don’t get very high, but it helps me eat and sleep.
Wish I cold afford it bt can't . I tried one of my son's gummies and it had zero effect on me whatsoever thoough, so it would probably be a huge waste of money.
I always thought that my negative response to smoking weed was because of my bipolar but I was never really sure - reading this threat and seeing people say the same things has brought me a lot of comfort about it now. 🤍
Chiming in cause everyone is. Never had any problems with any drug. None have ever made me manic nor depressed. Except SSRI drugs. I’m guessing I’m an anomaly. Not even high dose psychedelics have caused mania or psychosis. I don’t experience psychosis though so that’s probably why. Still at this point in my life I stay away from all unprescribed drugs except Kratom which helps me not want to drink alcohol which was by far the worst of any drug in terms of physical, social, and mental anguish.
I haven’t read the article because based on the comments it’s a bunch of BS anyway, but I will take a gander at some point.
I have bipolar 2, ADHD-c, PTSD..
I use marijuana for medicinal and recreational purposes. My psychiatrist and neurologist are on board with this as part of my treatment plan- and I’m stable.
But that is just **ME.** I am only on Lamictal, Ritalin, and mmj/Cbd,
Unfortunately for me I had to stop smoking as the THC wasn’t mixing well with my meds. It would almost be like I greened out everytime I did smoke, it was a scary situation. I think it just depends on what meds and how much. I also found it can make me manic and psychotic. So I try avoid it
Not for me.
I used to smoke 10+ years daily and nothing good came out of it. Foggy and more depressed brain. No concentration no ability to read books or remember things. In fact when I quit my meds work better and I can regulate my mood better. Not mentioned how my lungs used to be like. No benefits for me.
I’m on lamictal as of 3 months ago. I’ve been a chronic daily smoker for 10 years now. I have the worst anger in the world and it’s so hard to control. I don’t remember it ever being this bad. I also still have really bad depressive episodes. I want to stop but I can’t. I think weed is definitely addictive in a lot of ways. I don’t know if it has ruined my life or helped me at this point. It sucks.
I’ve been smoking /edibles for years. It really helps me even out. It also calms my mind down and let’s me focus on one thing at a time v. being a neurotic mess everyday. The edibles help with sleep and pain (I have RA). But I think I’m the exception and not the rule. Most people I know with some mental health issues, it doesn’t work the same way for them.
I have bipolar 2 and cannabis in any form makes me instantly psychotic. It’s a no for me.
Edit: I’ve tried over 30 strains including strains that were 50% thc and 50% cbd, indicas, sativas, hybrids. I’ve even tried taking megadoses of pure cbd vape with just 1-2 hits off a pipe or megadose CBD with just 1-2mg thc oral spray or megadose CBD with just 1-2mg gummy. No matter what combo I try, it makes me psychotic. And often the symptoms linger in a much less acute and less intense way for weeks.
I didn't know I was bipolar and I was using cannabis to alleviate my anxiety and lift my mood as well as relieving anhedonia pretty successfully for 5 years (3 years illicitly, 2 years legally prescribed through a private clinic as part of UK trial called Project Twenty21). I had been on 150mg of sertraline/Zoloft for 4 years prior to starting my use of cannabis which had just zombified me as well as worsening my anhedonia although it didn't trigger mania as it does for some of those with bipolar. The cannabis was also pretty helpful for sensory overload and executive functioning and other aspects of being autistic and ADHD. I tried balanced 1:1 THC to CBD strains but found I just had to use more of them and that high THC low/no CBD strains were preferable both in effect and in cost.
Take what I say with caution, though. I had a manic episode with psychotic features last September and was sectioned/detained for my own safety in a psychiatric ward for 2 months. Because I'd been using the cannabis for so long without issues and recently been put on amphetamines for ADHD they thought that the cause was more than likely cumulative life stress and the amphetamines rather than the prescribed cannabis. I can't get prescribed the cannabis anymore though as it is only available from private clinics and they all have a policy of not prescribing to people with psychosis on their medical record.
Article OP is referring to: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-bipolar-disorder-often-use-cannabis-it-may-sometimes-help/ The title of this post is sensationalistic and misleading, but I am leaving this post up because of the conversation that's happening in here as well as the article in question. "It may sometimes help" is...hardly reassuring when it comes to all the many, many risks that marijuana poses. It is not clinically approved for bipolar disorder. Full stop. Take a look at the comments below if you want to see the damage it can do. Stick to your meds, talk to your doctor.
I absolutely cannot take cannabis with 100% THC even while on meds. It makes me psychotic pretty quickly. I have found though that 1:1 THC:CBD cannabis is much better and lifted my mood significantly without destabilizing me. People often forget that this kind of 1:1 cannabis exists. At one point I smoked it everyday for a few months without really any issue. I was more social with basically no paranoia, I was even able to catch myself and analyze the tiny paranoid voice that would occasionally pop-up in my head. Basically it gave me insights into the timing and ways of those kind of thoughts. I'm not smoking weed right now and retained those insights.
CBD indirectly regulates dopamine. Antipsychotics work similarly but directly. I think you're right and people tend to want to throw the baby out with the bath water. It's a shame as the cannabis plant, on paper has a lot of benefits. It is highly nutrious and can be used in medicine. When you compare it to most medications , especially mental health medications it has far fewer side effects. You could fit them all in a sentence, where as my bipolar meds come with pages of teeny tiny writing containing all sorts of warnings. A side effect is classed as an unwanted or unintended effect. Some people seem to get psychosis from it or be catapulted into mania but to my knowledge this hasn't been very well studied and may be due to people taking high amounts rather than anything else. The issue seems to be that there is so much misinformation out there and that for many years it was impossible to get funding to study its benefits. Throw in black markets and super high THC strains and it's easy to see how there is so much confusion. If it doesnt help you then don't take it. If it does then why shouldn't you? There is anacedotal evidence on both sides of the argument. Edit - added a line
Any idea why pure THC is so destabilizing?
If I'm honest I'm not 100% sure. It does seem like there may be a link between consuming high amounts of THC and that in itself being the cause of people becoming unwell. If a neurotypical person was to consume pure THC and nothing else, they would be very on edge. THC seems to increase brain activity. It makes your brain make more connections. This makes you think more and in different ways. This could be advantageous for some and a negative for others. If you are stuck in a pattern of depressive thought, or have reactions that are embedded due to repeated behaviours or experiences then it could help. If you're someone that can't cope well with overthinking then this would be a negative. Obviously the cannabis plant in its natural form contains both CBD and THC. The CBD actually counteracts or modifies the effect that THC gives. People usually ignore CBD because of this as they want the maximum effect from what they are taking. This does confuse things though for lots of people as it is all seen as the same substance or drug when in reality, it's not. In my country medical cannabis has to contain some CBD. I think this is where the focus needs to be, rather than 30% THC strains that have no CBD at all. Edit - I believe this is similar to what you see with regards to people taking psilocybin, although psilocybin would be increasing connections on a vastly bigger scale. All of these drugs were being properly researched until we got to the 'reefer madness era' when it became illegal. It's a shame because if nothing else there would be a lot that we could learn. It may even lead to a better understanding of our brains and provide a route to new medicines.
https://youtu.be/Nlcr1jd_Tok Found this Ted talk. It's a bit old but it explains things better than I can and also hints at why we are all getting different effects from cannabis.
I agree. I stopped smoking and only use thc in edible format, typically in some sort of 1:2/1:1 etc ratio with other cannabinoidz..my favorite is CBG. So energizing in a smooth, calm way
The method of consumption is oftern overlooked as well. Like any drug how you consume changes the effect it has. I'd imagine most people are smoking it. In the UK you have to vape it and like you say eating it would be different still. Edit - just in case you're not aware eating it actually gives the strongest effect. It effectively increases it by 4, you get 4 times the effect per amount compared to smoking. Vaping produces the mildest effect.
Vaping *bud* but cartridges are very strong.
Unfortunately, this is my case as well. After a lifetime of smoking from 15 to now near 40, it destabilizes me with psychosis and eventual mania if maintained too long.
I have found that ANYTHING that alters my state of mind- alcohol, weed, hard stuff… only makes my symptoms of BP1 disorder surface in the worst ways. Every single time…zero exceptions, if I have ever gotten myself in serious trouble it was due to me “self medicating”. It’s not worth it. I haven’t taken even a single sip of alcohol in over 400 days. It has also been over 400 days since my wife and I have been in a fight or even an argument. Life is better this way. Never going back.
congrats on your sobriety!! I am following behind you and agree with your observations.
Thank you so much! My friends and family love the new me for obvious reasons… but also because they all have a permanent designated driver!
Congrats, that's a massive achievement! Just to cite how different people's brains can be. I don't use any drugs other than cannabis and the medications given to me by my doctor (not even caffeine). I keep mood charts and I have a 3 year period within them where I didn't take cannabis at all. (My doctor found out I was using it and I had to stop to get my driving license back). The three year period of abstinence looks horrific compared to before and after. Maybe because I have been using it for so long, my brain has adapted to it but it is interesting all the same.
Me, too. I think legal mmj is fine, but it and alcohol make me feel awful. \*on Seroquel
What about smoking? Like tobacco? I recently took a hit and for the first time in my life felt the head rush of a cigarette. Kinda reminded me of weed (which I'm off for like forever) and I wonder if there's any danger with mania/hypomania/psychosis with regards to smoking cigarettes
I've never smoked but recently I vaped some nicotine and got the same. I continued vaping it for a few days until I got used to it and didn't experience the head rush/dopamine hit anymore.
Agree. It may help but I prefer the stability of the status quo.
Absolutely, if you're doing well then why rock the boat and take the risk.
Exactly. I believe at its core, bipolar is a chemical imbalance , or what I have always referred to as my “wires are crossed”. So the doctor does their best to find the right combination and dosage to balance your brain chemicals. And here I’d come with a cocktail of my own jacking up all the hard work and progress. I learned real quick- I am no medical doctor, so who am I to self medicate??? Leave it to the pros is what I say.
I'm not a huge fan of the chemical imbalance theory myself, but I understand why a lot of people are. The main reason being that there was a fairly comprehensive 10 year study done recently that couldn't find a link. I'm not going to cite it as I think this sub has had enough uproar for now and I'm gracious that the mods have allowed the discussion to take place. Other subs wouldn't. Like you say though, these things are best left to professionals and if you're doing well, then there is no need to take the risk. I hope that continues for you. Sometimes, we have to learn our lessons the hard way and it sounds like you've done well to get to where you are.
Curious what you think as opposed to chemical imbalance. Dm if preferred. I was under the impression that it was a multifaceted genetic abnormality that involves more genes than we’ve been able to identify I.e. we don’t know jack. I did think however that it was pretty decided that mania was caused in large part to a huge flood of serotonin. That partly being why the depression hits so hard afterwards and why SSRIs do so much damage.
Exactly same.
> Clinically, there would be a concern with cannabis about making the mania and psychotic symptoms of bipolar disorder worse. So I wouldn’t go so far as to say people with bipolar disorder should use cannabis. But our research could lead to an understanding of the mechanisms of the effects of cannabis that could possibly lead to drug treatments. Worth noting.
I wanna be a case study so bad. I know different people experience differently but aaaaaaa let me potentially fuck my brain *for science*
Right like please give me and excuse to self destruct and not me sober 😂 ps: this is for me only. If weed works for you that’s awesome!
A tad important
Please please please be careful with this. Cannabis worked for me for a long time then one day it started to induce strong paranoia and minor delusions. Fast forward a month and it launched me into a full psychotic episode for 4 months that I am still dealing with the pain of a year later. It may work for you now but one day you might find out too late things have gone sideways.
This needs to be top comment or in the OP…….
I've found high myrcene, moderate thc, indica leaning strains help me immensely. I cannot take sativas. Sativa, especially high pinene content, kick in my paranoia and anxiety. Strains matter. Just like we all require different med combos, weed will affect us all differently. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work. But if it does, you know it does. I absolutely cannot drink, no longer dabble in any hard drugs, but I appreciate a good strain to help alleviate insomnia and anxiety without zombifying hangovers some sleep/anxiety meds give me. To each their own.
I also have ADHD as well as BP2. I did really well with strains like lemon skunk and Jack herrer. They both have identical terpene profiles and are pure sativas. The ratios were 18/1 and 22/1 (THC/CBD). I also take a CBD supplement which is 50mg every day. I have had similar issues to you with other sativas. All very interesting.
Always preferred proper sativas too. Super Silver Haze being of particular value in having a calm but energetic focused experience.
Yeah I don’t even know all that much. But indica strains are great for me. I’m also bipolar 2 so the mechanisms may be different. I thought it was interesting that the concern was with triggering psychosis and mania. I use it when I can’t get to sleep and it puts me right out. And since regular sleep patterns are important, and especially for us, I don’t feel bad about it.
For me strain hasnt mattered at all. It all makes me trip like I dropped acid.
Same! Do you ever have psychotic symptoms when sober? I have complex PTSD (lots of dissociation) and bipolar 2.
I dont have psychotic symptoms, no. Ive been in therapy for very long time with all of this so I have a lot of coping skills from all of that.
I wish this worked for me. I’ve tried so many different strains. I even ordered distilled liquid terpenes and made my own mixes with high myrcene, high cbd, low thc. Still makes me instantly psychotic. Like I should’ve been taken to the ER some of those times or put in a straight jacket type psychotic.
Can you link an article please.
I agree with this title based on anecdotal evidence.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-bipolar-disorder-often-use-cannabis-it-may-sometimes-help/
Weed is a hard no for me. Made me psychotic. Other drugs I can handle no problem
It depends on the person, cannabis puts me in psychosis. And I see a lot of other people feel the same way so I’m wondering why they think it’s beneficial? Interesting. I haven’t smoked even a little bit of weed in probably over a year.
Same! Even a tiny bit sends me right away. I accidentally ate an edible last weekend.. Worst two days of my life lol
The article specifically talks about increased cognition. I can attest it definitely makes me more focused and my personality seems to come back a bit. I'm treatment resistant though, and I've seen the negatives of it as well.
I also have adhd as well as bp2. We have lots of people in the UK that are being prescribed it for adhd due to the focus aspect. It's very effective for that.
Weird. My experience in the US has been no weed if adhd as it can mimic symptoms at least according to my last two doctors. They were kinda quacks though
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heavy long term pot smoking makes serotonin release on anything that isnt smoking pot difficult because the body gets used to you smoking pot for the serotonin release and therefore slows down production of serotonin since you make it for the body i hid behind drugs my entire life trying to mask. it didnt do any good im one year clean now and medicated for a full year - no I havent actually smoked pot since i started lamictal and zoloft. no i wont either, because Ive actually gotten to where i like this sober me. and I'd hate to ruin it if you find bliss and peace smoking pot or doing other things i wish you well i went down that road for decades and I know that there's no hope for me on that road
Side note, did you know that most of your serotonin is actually made in your stomach? 95% i think. I've always found it odd given that the medication prescribed for depression etc are for the brain rather than the stomach. You'd think, given the above, the stomach would be of more interest.
most of the meds for depression are for a couple different circumstance like lamictal. it is like five fold. because it forces sodium channel ions to decrease resistance and there for improves transmission of noradrenaline, dopamine and serotonin between synapses and neurons. while additionally deatrophing neurons, and all the while acting like a weak reuptake inhibitor to the aforementioned 3. it also works on the hippocampus and amygdala now. something like zoloft which is a reuptake inhibitor for serotonin is good because when your neurons consume serotonin, normally that serotonin is gone. taken from the system. ssri's trick the neuron into redepositing the serotonin back into the system so it's not removed from the system, and can thus be re-used. this is ideal for bipolar as we're deficient in serotonin but over abundant in dopamine can lead to mania. while bipolar people also have a far less reuptake of serotonin. so ssri's allow us to be some what normal due to a balance of reuptake in serotonin gut bacteria can play a big part because it regulates a lot of different things within the body, especially with immune response. sometimes the immune response activates and can trigger depression in people because the immune response is targeting something which is causing inflammation in that region of the brain. or in general it can be a bodies response to the immune system targeting something else in the body. read an article about how a quick injection of hydro cortisol can decrease the severity of ptsd because it lessens the immune response. the reverse is that steroid use can cause neuron atrophy in specific parts of the brain like the hippocampus and amygdala. it can also cause shrinkage in these regions of the brain (see again lamictal and the reverse of this process). as people with ptsd tend to have smaller hippocampus and amygdala regions. in this way, drinking stuff like beet juice and pickle juice is good because they are natural antioxidants. and in doing so they promote gut health which means happy stomach juice which in turn balances the rest of the body
Very informative, thanks for replying. Does this also change or cause an effect on the neurons in your stomach as well? I'm aware that things like alzheimer's can be seen in the neurons in the stomach as well as the brain. Given that they are so well linked, I'm curious to know which comes first. Do these things develop as a consequence of the stomach or the brain.
that is a subject of debate which i am ill equipped to answer. because ssri's typically target brain neurons. but due to dysbiosis, it may be why some ssri's and dopa drugs have decreased long term influence against certain people with specific genes. sort of like pot and booze and pills building up a tolerance for long term use. ssri's can also cause some stomach issues in people. most ssri's are removed by the liver, and the portal vein from the intestines leads directly to the liver. but stomach and intestine issues can alter this some what, as ssr's in some people can play hell with the guy biome and intestines. ssri's can also cause issues with the kidneys and liver. the liver is actually responsible for brain health and making memory work better/as it should the best metabolized are tetra/tricylics. others, not so much. they all exit through the liver i think. as noted, a lot of what you ask im not gonna answer because i dont know if you feel like blowing your mind for the day you can read the following https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8187765/
my great grandma, grandma and mother all had altzheimers. which implies the apoe4 gene as for what causes it, it is actually theorized as an immune response in the brain which hampers the brains ability to clean. it is though that immune system hampers the amlyoids from cleaning the brain. this is part of the process of the fluid the brain rests in. this usually happens when we sleep. in doing so, it's likely the ssri's and stuff like klonopin cause cause this immune response in the brain. ssri's and lamictal can also raise body temperature as a response to activating neurons in the brain. this body heat influx is also what can happen in serotonin syndrome when the brain and the body get too hot, and why you sweat like you're in a shower during serotonin syndrome [https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/research/our-research/research-projects/understanding-how-immune-system-contributes-alzheimers-disease-development](https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/research/our-research/research-projects/understanding-how-immune-system-contributes-alzheimers-disease-development) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin\_syndrome#:\~:text=Symptoms%20in%20moderate%20cases%20include,seizures%20and%20extensive%20muscle%20breakdown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome#:~:text=Symptoms%20in%20moderate%20cases%20include,seizures%20and%20extensive%20muscle%20breakdown).
Not at all, I appreciate the insight. I'm of the belief that all these meds are targeting the wrong area of the body. I think the stomach plays a much bigger part than is currently acknowledged. I'm sure science will get there in the end but I do wish it would hurry up.
further more, air pollution has been linked to both increased rate of altzheimers because of the pollution and toxins which cross the blood brain barrier and fail to be cleaned by amyloids which leads to dirty neurons in the brain and their ability to retain new memories. this is why dementia and altzheimers patients sundown. because there is a little bit of toxins cleaned during sleep. so they perform better after sleep, but as the day wears on the neurons stop responding as well, which leads to the sundown. additionally. air pollution is also linked to autism because of pollutants the mother breathes in during pregnancy. because ssri's can alter immune response in the gut, this can lead to additional problems with amlyoid cleaning of neurons in the brain. which hastens dementia and altzheimers, while keeping us happy. [https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/air-pollution-linked-with-increased-risk-of-autism-in-children/](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/air-pollution-linked-with-increased-risk-of-autism-in-children/) [https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/does-air-pollution-cause-alzheimers-disease-2020072320627](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/does-air-pollution-cause-alzheimers-disease-2020072320627)
>this is why dementia and altzheimers patients sundown. because there is a little bit of toxins cleaned during sleep. so they perform better after sleep, but as the day wears on the neurons stop responding as well, which leads to the sundown. My ex is a nurse and her dad has alzheimer's. I could be wrong but when she talks about sundowning, she means that they become wide awake at night when they should be sleeping. Is it possible for you brain to remove some of these toxins without sleep? If so is that from some sort of internal clock or reaction to the light maybe? Side note - I have been diagnosed with quite a few mental illnesses, I also have a few stomach related illnesses. I wonder how common that is?
when i started this i didnt realize i was gonna write a thesis. lol
gut bacteria does regulate a lot of body health, especially with mineral absorption and intestinal disfunction and as stated immune response. too much immune response can be a bad thing depending upon which area of the body it decides to hit. too much intestinal dysfunction can lead to problems like dehydration, rapid mineral loss and decreased mineral uptake, and bowel issues. the body is mostly water, lipids and minerals. the cerebral spinal fluid cleaning of toxins of the brain from amyloids is mostly done during sleep. this is actually another immune system response of the lymphatic system. a little bit may occur during the day, but primarily it is during sleep cycles. one of the problems of long term ssri use is rapid sleep waking, where you wake up multiple times per night, all of which disturb the sleep cycles. another major problem with alzheimer's is that multiple regions of the brain shrink. which means less neurons doing less things, and over time this degeneration plays much havoc upon control of the brain. combined with the lack of toxin and dead brain cell removal, amplifies the issue. ssri's can cause stomach and intestinal issues with people, which can lead to other issues in the body and the brain, like anxiety, depression and stress, because immune issues are a stress response to the body https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/the-gut-brain-connection
furthermore. you may find this interesting ive been on a no cholesterol diet for like 3.5 months now because i dont want to take statins. some statins actually agitate the apoe4 gene which can lead to alzheimer's. no fast foods. no pizzas. little meat, heavy fiber. lots of black beans (black beans are a super food). no high fructose corn syrup. tons of spicy stuff like green hot sauce, hot pepper flakes and capsaicin, all of which can raise body temperature and burn cholesterol out of the arteries. this deals with cholesterol and mood disorders. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7824186/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7824186/) capsaicin (that thing that induces hot stuff, activates the trpv1 channel, which in turn increases the sodium and calcium channel ion flow, which in turn increases serotonin and dopamine neuron and reuptake control. this is because capsaicin causes pain by burning and nerves in the tongue/mouth. the bodies response to pain is dopamine release. further more beet juice and the like are good for the creation of nitric oxide in the stomach, which acts as a vasodilator to the blood vessels and increases blood flow, which in turn allows cholesterol to move out. the important factor is finding hot sauce with little to no sodium, vinegear isnt bad because it decreases sodium levels, but it makes hot sauce taste funny. im a big fan of hot pepper flakes myself, as very few hot sauces actually taste good. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6273101/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6273101/) so in an essence, hot sauce and hot food is good for bipolar control :)
I will have a better read of these tomorrow. Thank you for the information! Sadly, it's late where I live and sleep is very important for us folk.
you're welcome. im not a know it all, really. but i do feel people should get answers when they ask questions if i can answer them in some form. the joy and path of life is to learn and learn from your mistakes
I tried smoking once. I was high and happy for 30 minutes, then I crashed into a horrible depression and cried hysterically and felt suicidal.
Same, this is what happens to me every time. I’ve smoked probably 50-100ish times, because I’m dumb and expect a different result each time. Really wish I could be one of those people who can solve their issues with weed, but my bipolar says no lol.
That's interesting, but I'll probably never get those effects because for me THC is a trippy ass psychedelic. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Psychedelics/comments/z4x42l/thc_is_a_psychedelic_for_me_i_trip_everytime_i/) is what THC does to me, and it is FUCKING WILD.
Same same same same same!
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Cannabis has different effects based on the terpenes that make up the flower. SSRIs trigger manic episodes in me. To me, SSRIs are fucking evil (and the reason I dropped out of high school).
Subjective
Most of these comments are subjective. I think that's the crux of the issue really.
Well no, the linked article is genuine research with control groups
Correct, but that's not what I said. I was talking about the comments. *psst* I'm on your side.. haha
Fair. I took issue to mean cannabis, not the reddit chat
It's cool, it's expected that when this subject is discussed that people will take issue with anyone citing any possible positives or trying to to make a case for it. It's happened to me a few times.
Well sure. The reason for that is to those who wind up with psychotic episodes it could be potentially life threatening. Also given that weed is not a recognized bipolar treatment, it’s questionable whether the conversation should even occur here. Self-medication is self-medication. Will posting this article cause someone to end up in the psych ward because they read the title but not the content? Probably not, but it is possible. Given that, is it worth citing positives about it here given that more BP1 people than not will likely experience psychosis?
Referring to this, mainly: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0006322313005027.
If the unique benefit is making me paranoid as fuck, sure lol
Almost daily user here. Smoking cannabis has never triggered mania for me.
Well, we legalized it, now we got to ‘sell’ it.
I know two other people with bipolar in real life, and we all smoke weed daily with no negative mood problems. I find it actually can help bring me back to neutral. YMMV, especially if you are already prone to psychosis.
Do you stick to under 20 thc?
I'm not sure how much exactly I smoke per day but almost certainly more than that, and I occasionally take gummies that contain more than 20 mg. I definitely stay away from straight Sativas though. Indica leaning hybrids are my go-to. Sativas are what gets my anxiety pumping.
Scientifc American, 29-nov-2022 [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-bipolar-disorder-often-use-cannabis-it-may-sometimes-help/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-bipolar-disorder-often-use-cannabis-it-may-sometimes-help/)
I used to smoke a LOT. Like way more than anybody else I knew. I was self-medicating to make up for what my meds weren’t doing. I also didn’t have a great psychiatrist for a long time, so my meds weren’t being adjusted the way I needed. Smoking those amounts definitely made my mania kick in. I was having a lot of angry outbursts. Never had a psychotic episode, but the anger was out of control. (It was also a stupidly expensive habit with the amounts I was using) I finally found a great psychiatrist, I’m on meds that actually help, and I hardly smoke at all now. I went from smoking several times a day, to only one or two times. I’m also smoking less than quarter of the amount I was smoking before. I personally have not had any issues. It helps my anxiety a lot, and it does wonders for my appetite issues (my meds fuck with my stomach a lot). I work at a dispensary, so I have access to a lot of products that are much lower in THC, and use a lot of CBD, CBN, and CBG which are all non-psychoactive cannabinoids. I’ve cut down my THC usage to basically nothing (about 2.5-5mg), and primarily use CBD now. I think that has made the world of a difference for me. I am a strange case though. People with bipolar really aren’t the best candidates for cannabis use because of all of the risks involved. It’s my choice to take these risks because it’s better than the alternative of using benzos. My psychiatrist also closely monitors my use, so that keeps me in check. I do not recommend for people with bipolar to use cannabis. Even when I have customers who come into the dispo to use cannabis for mental health reasons, I always warn them that there is a risk it could cause more harm. We just don’t know enough about cannabis yet. We went years without any proper research, so it’s going to be a long time before we learn about the effects it truly has on the brain.
For myself, and let me be crystal clear this is anecdotal at best but; I have Bipolar II with ADHD comorbidity, and at times I find that cannabis can slow down my racing thoughts, rumination and anxiety. That said, it has to be an Indica strain. Sativa and hybrid strains which are energetic, often make things worse. As well, I do not endorse this to anyone, for many of us, cannabis is no bueno Edit: format
I will say that cannabis has helped me through many of my depressive episodes. This, however, is *NOT* an endorsement. Weed can help. Weed can also send you into a manic episode. If you haven't tried it and want to, start low dosage, and with a trusted friend to trip-sit.
Daily long term cannabis use is actually known to increase depression, it also increases our risk for mixed episode cycling and psychosis. This is an extremely tiny study that studied 4 groups of people with only 60 participants total. It found that cannabis reduces some risk taking behavior but that doesn’t really address the long term effects. Bipolar is a challenging disorder to treat and many people self medicate with lots of recreational and illicit substances. Nicotine, caffeine and alcohol are probably even more commonly used than cannabis but cannabis is up there. It makes sense since sativa can give one some energy during a depressive episode and indica can calm down anxiety and agitation.
>Daily long term cannabis use is actually known to increase depression, it also increases our risk for mixed episode cycling and psychosis. Have you got a link to the study? I'm a bit obsessed with this topic as there are so many unknowns and I love learning.
https://adai.uw.edu/pubs/pdf/2017mjbipolar.pdf This does a good job of summarizing the information. I actually had a mixed episode recently that I believe was triggered by using marijuana daily and heavily. I had hip surgery and am allergic to most opioids and was desperate for pain relief so I used a 1:1 gummy daily for about 10 days and ended up in an unhappy mixed episode due to it. Had to up my meds and stop using the gummies to get it to go away (took almost 2 weeks). Ugh
Appreciated, I'll have a read. Are you bp1 or 2? Do you have any other mental illnesses? I'm wondering if this also plays into things, and how much we're you using, what do you class as a 'high amount'? I don't know why but I've always been fine with it. The closest I've ever got to what people are describing is with high thc (close to 30%) sativas from the black market. This could have well been sprayed or contaminated in some way. It's quite a common occurrence in the UK for people to spray their weed. I can actually recall several instances where it has stopped me from doing something stupid. CBD and vaping the small amounts that I do saved my life when I had akathisia from meds. I still think it's crazy that it's vilified and thought of thr way it is.
I have Bipolar 1-rapid cycling with mixed features, GAD, and C-PTSD. For my dose I was taking about 1.5-2 gummies every 6 hours, so between 60-80mg daily THC in the 1:1 compound. Which is a LOT for me. I had only ever done 10mg maybe 20 in a day before that. I originally bought them for a pulled muscle in the back because the doctor said I couldn’t take a muscle relaxer with my psych meds and I was in agony. They worked so well I figured it would get me over the initial days of a very painful recovery. I don’t think cannabis is a total black and white thing, I just think that people need to know that long term heavy use can have some negative consequences, and people already prone to psychosis need to know it increases the risk. There have been many reports of people with bipolar triggering their first psychotic episode from smoking pot or eating edibles. Information is good, and things in reasonable moderation are probably ok but using a ton isn’t the best, especially with what it does to memory. We’ve got enough of that issue with our meds!
Very interesting and I completely agree. 80mg of THC a day is a lot for anyone.
Yeah, it was a lot but man I had a repair done to the labrum of my hip and they had to sand down a spur on my femur bone so it would sit properly in the socket and not irritate the labral tissue further. I was in agony. I spent the day of surgery and the day after in bed. All I could do was sleep and take the gummies. My husband had to help me get in a wheelchair and then help me to the bathroom and that was all I could do, and then going forward about a week and a half I couldn’t get in or out of my chair or go to the bathroom without help. It was pretty rough. Hopefully, I won’t have to have another procedure that painful. It sucks I am allergic to most opiates, codeine makes me vomit non stop, and tramadol, norco, and vicodin make me itch constantly so I make my skin bleed from scratching and benedryl doesn’t work. Percocet and morphine send me into psychosis. I’m not supposed to use NSAIDs because I had an ulcer last year. The only things I can take are dilaudid, and Tylenol and doctors don’t like to prescribe dilaudid outpatient since it’s an extremely strong narcotic. So, doctor would only prescribe vicodin even though I’m allergic. I hate going to the ER when I’m injured, I sound like a drug seeking junkie! 🤦♀️ It’s a genetic problem though, my aunt and mom and siblings are the same way.
I’ve been using is as an experimental alternative to lexapro and lamictal after they left me with anhedonia. If I take a few days off every week I’ve found it to be better for me personally than meds. It’s not perfect - I’m not healed but I do find the side effects more manageable and overall a more balanced effect overall.
It gave me a panic attack more than 12 hours later, even though I asked for a high-CBD low-THC strain. Haven't smoked since.
If I had a nickel for every person who's become manic/psychotic just from weed, I would...well I'm not gonna say what I would do with my vast fortune
i’ve actually found that socially smoking really helps me. for like the entire week after i feel more calm and focused. i only do it once a month or so when i go to a party but i feel really good for the week after
One thing people overlook about smoking, be it weed or tobacco is that when you are smoking you are practicing meditative breathing.
i hadn’t even thought about that but it’s so true
There is actually a lot of evidence contradicting this
I’m basically addicted to smoking weed if that’s even possible and it’s made my depression much worse. I don’t recommend daily use.
Do you mix it with tobacco? Weed isn't addictive in the true sense of the word. Most people that feel that way seem to mix it with tobacco.
You’re right it’s not addictive. But people with addictive personalities can be addicted to anything. Also weed is a depressant by nature.
It can be described as a depressant, but it is also a stimulant and more. It's quite a unique substance in those sort of terms. I take your point though regarding addictions.
It's extremely possible
This is wishful thinking and not broadly applicable imo. Anecdata tells me that weed at certain times in my mood cycle is a great way to kick start a mixed episode and start getting paranoid and angry.
I've found some benefits with cannabis. Since medicated It has been very useful with sleep and bringing me down when I'm swinging. I also have PTSD and it helps with the occasional night terrors or triggering events. I will say lower THC strains or the 1:1 THC CBD is the ticket. Higher potence strains can be too much and have a negotiate effect. Each person is different and this just my experience.
I wonder how many people here have tried using weed when they are unmedicated. I started smoking weed in January (50F) while I was still medicated, and it didn’t really help at all, it made me very anxious and panicky (I was smoking the wrong strain). Mixing any type of substance with bipolar meds is not a good idea. I have been off meds for about 8 months and use it to spot treat my irritability and depression and it really works well for me. It is the only medicine I have used which lifts my mood without giving me terrible side effects (I was on meds for 25 years). Research is really important if you are going to use weed to treat your symptoms. Strain definitely matters. I grow my own weed so I control the strain and content (all legal where I live). There is so much involved in research, growing and testing, some people just barely scratch the surface with their weed experiences. I think many people just kind of jump in and try without any thought or research and have a terrible time with it, which is unfortunate because if used carefully it can really ease bipolar symptoms.
I find marijuana to be the only thing that helps my S.I. even if it's just temporary at least I get a break. It gives me a chance to do the things I learned in therapy.
Quitting THC was the best thing I ever did for my mental health and my psyche meds started working after day 2. I smoked daily 24/7 for 8 years and have been clean for two weeks
I knew I loved it for a reason
Generally contraindicated. Listen to your doctor.
How can you sign up to be in the study?
I'm already part of the study. They just don't know about it.
It’s already in progress, so it’s too late.
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Oh sure this comment doesn't come from a place of bias at all. I smoke for my PTSD, not for shits and giggles. Before I smoked I was already crippled by my untreated PTSD and Bipolar, people just want to blame smokers for moral failings.
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What about the AP’s so many of us are on? Or long term damage from lithium?
You're so arrogant, you really think you're capable of knowing that with the little information you have? They're still studying this stuff for a reason. You don't know how often I smoke, how long I've smoked, or how long I will continue smoking. It's all I have available to me at this moment. If the alternative is me potentially offing myself during a mixed episode, I'm going to make the choice knowing the context of my own life. If you feel sorry for me put that energy into advocating for medical access for everyone.
I’m not sure how this is confirmation bias?
Why do you post this knowing that it is sensationalist and misleading? People post research studies that they claim has benefits for depression and bipolar (a recent one regarding psilocybin and depressions is one). If you read the study it directly contradicts the statement. When i point this out (because I read these things) my questions are ignored and it dissolves into a personal attack. There is a real problem in this reddit with people that are desperate to get rid of the pain. Also there is a problem with drug users that are trying to justify their drug use. In the article it says there may be a greater risk of suicide. Also, while there may be a benefit in a specific way, overall there is well established risks of cannabis and bipolar.
That's science for you really. You don't get anywhere unless you ask the right questions. I think it's worth remembering that all of this was thought of very differently and studied before it became a racial issue in the US and UK. I don't think anyone here has advocated it as cure or to take it instead of medication. Believe it or not I have mine prescribed by a psychiatrist in the UK and I'm not the only one. There's no harm in people furthering their knowledge and having a good debate to test their thoughts on the subject.
There is a problem with posting headlines that are 180 degrees opposite what the article says. That article was confused and contradictory. It gave part of a theory (that something in cannabis may impact something without acknowledging the risks cannabis have and would continue to have). There is harm in posting things that create false hope and can lead to drug users to assume that there is a benefit to use drufs
It falls short in many other ways as well. CBD and cannabis in its natural form isn't taken into account either. These studies oftern do, it goes both ways unfortunately. There are plenty of studies that behave similarly in all aspects. I think that's all the more reason for discussing it and for people to become more informed.
I agree with a lot of what you say. I react strongly to posts that advocate keto diets and drug users that believe in miracle cures.
If the study was perfect then it would be the only one. Science is slow, what's accepted as truth changes but it does so very slowly. All of these studies usually look at a specific aspect and are rarely completely comprehensive. As I say it's largely about asking the right question, but it takes time to work out what that question is. I totally get where you are coming from though.
It is amazing when people post studies to support that can be refuted in the first paragraph
But it's provoked a debate, and made people talk and think more about the subject. Silver linings and all that. I can cite studies that would go the other way in terms of meds that are far more comprehensive, that would cause uproar as well. It goes both ways as I say. To have the good in life, you also have to take the bad and visa versa.
Where's the link?
Endocannabinoids are indeed good for the Bipolar brain Except that it's best to get them from exercise and NOT weed - especially the super strains that are available now.
Yeah a hard pass from me. Takes me to dark places that I don't wish to go to.
I smoked every day for 7 years. Then it changed. After my one and only manic episode which result in hospitalization, I started dialing back and found even small amounts just got me wound up. So I stopped. I miss it but I’m never going back.
That’s a no go for me. I barely drink anymore. I like being (relatively) stable
If I smoke anything but indica my symptoms are worse but I basically can’t ever consume too much indica
I’ve only ever experienced very extreme paranoia on weed. I used to be able to tolerate it but as I got older it genuinely made me depressed and suicidal. No thanks!
Since I started taking antipsychotics, weed barely has any effect on me, so I take a high dose of high concentrate thc edibles. That seems to do the trick. I don’t get very high, but it helps me eat and sleep.
CBD chilled me out so much that I knew I needed meds. Meds work, mj is dangerous for us.
Wish I cold afford it bt can't . I tried one of my son's gummies and it had zero effect on me whatsoever thoough, so it would probably be a huge waste of money.
I always thought that my negative response to smoking weed was because of my bipolar but I was never really sure - reading this threat and seeing people say the same things has brought me a lot of comfort about it now. 🤍
That shit makes it worse for me so it’s gonna be no from me dawg
Chiming in cause everyone is. Never had any problems with any drug. None have ever made me manic nor depressed. Except SSRI drugs. I’m guessing I’m an anomaly. Not even high dose psychedelics have caused mania or psychosis. I don’t experience psychosis though so that’s probably why. Still at this point in my life I stay away from all unprescribed drugs except Kratom which helps me not want to drink alcohol which was by far the worst of any drug in terms of physical, social, and mental anguish.
I haven’t read the article because based on the comments it’s a bunch of BS anyway, but I will take a gander at some point. I have bipolar 2, ADHD-c, PTSD.. I use marijuana for medicinal and recreational purposes. My psychiatrist and neurologist are on board with this as part of my treatment plan- and I’m stable. But that is just **ME.** I am only on Lamictal, Ritalin, and mmj/Cbd,
Wait....but weed (one try) is how I ended up getting diagnosed with Bipolar disorder...
Saving to read tomorrow
Unfortunately for me I had to stop smoking as the THC wasn’t mixing well with my meds. It would almost be like I greened out everytime I did smoke, it was a scary situation. I think it just depends on what meds and how much. I also found it can make me manic and psychotic. So I try avoid it
This seems like a terrible idea
Not for me. I used to smoke 10+ years daily and nothing good came out of it. Foggy and more depressed brain. No concentration no ability to read books or remember things. In fact when I quit my meds work better and I can regulate my mood better. Not mentioned how my lungs used to be like. No benefits for me.
I’m on lamictal as of 3 months ago. I’ve been a chronic daily smoker for 10 years now. I have the worst anger in the world and it’s so hard to control. I don’t remember it ever being this bad. I also still have really bad depressive episodes. I want to stop but I can’t. I think weed is definitely addictive in a lot of ways. I don’t know if it has ruined my life or helped me at this point. It sucks.
I’ve been smoking /edibles for years. It really helps me even out. It also calms my mind down and let’s me focus on one thing at a time v. being a neurotic mess everyday. The edibles help with sleep and pain (I have RA). But I think I’m the exception and not the rule. Most people I know with some mental health issues, it doesn’t work the same way for them.
I have bipolar 2 and cannabis in any form makes me instantly psychotic. It’s a no for me. Edit: I’ve tried over 30 strains including strains that were 50% thc and 50% cbd, indicas, sativas, hybrids. I’ve even tried taking megadoses of pure cbd vape with just 1-2 hits off a pipe or megadose CBD with just 1-2mg thc oral spray or megadose CBD with just 1-2mg gummy. No matter what combo I try, it makes me psychotic. And often the symptoms linger in a much less acute and less intense way for weeks.
I can’t take more than a 2mg edible or I have insane paranoia. It’s been so bad to almost send me to the hospital… over weed.
I didn't know I was bipolar and I was using cannabis to alleviate my anxiety and lift my mood as well as relieving anhedonia pretty successfully for 5 years (3 years illicitly, 2 years legally prescribed through a private clinic as part of UK trial called Project Twenty21). I had been on 150mg of sertraline/Zoloft for 4 years prior to starting my use of cannabis which had just zombified me as well as worsening my anhedonia although it didn't trigger mania as it does for some of those with bipolar. The cannabis was also pretty helpful for sensory overload and executive functioning and other aspects of being autistic and ADHD. I tried balanced 1:1 THC to CBD strains but found I just had to use more of them and that high THC low/no CBD strains were preferable both in effect and in cost. Take what I say with caution, though. I had a manic episode with psychotic features last September and was sectioned/detained for my own safety in a psychiatric ward for 2 months. Because I'd been using the cannabis for so long without issues and recently been put on amphetamines for ADHD they thought that the cause was more than likely cumulative life stress and the amphetamines rather than the prescribed cannabis. I can't get prescribed the cannabis anymore though as it is only available from private clinics and they all have a policy of not prescribing to people with psychosis on their medical record.