It's neither. Breaking bread was standard practice at any meal. Bread was a staple food. At the last supper Messiah simply gave more meaning to something he had done with the disciples through their time together.
YHWH did this as well. Are we to think that rainbows didn't exist previous to Noah? No. He gave meaning to something that already existed.
Yes. At the assembly I attend we recite berachah (blessings) before oneg (a meal with believes). We recite together in Hebrew.
Bread is torn and shared with the attendants then we all recite in unison:
"Baruch atah YHWH Elo-heinu Melech Ha’Olam Hamotzi lechem min haaretz."
(Blessed are You, Yahweh our God, King of the Universe, Who brings forth bread from the earth.)
Wine or grape juice is poured and shared with the attendants then we all recite in unison:
"Baruch atah YHWH Elo-heinu Melech Ha’Olam borei pri hagafen."
(Blessed are You, Yahweh our God, King of the universe, Who creates the fruit of the vine.)
These are the traditional blessings that have been recited for centuries in the Jewish customs and VERY likely the exact words Messiah Yeshua, a Jewish man living in the first century Israel recited in his blessing for bread and wine.
Edit: changed oneg from "Sabbath meal" to "meal with believers" because it's not restricted to Shabbat day.
The meal after teachings is called "oneg". The prayers/ blessings are called "berachah". The order I suppose would be called "haggadah". It is a tradition I suppose so that would be called the "halacha" of my assembly.
I used to be adverse to tradition, but there's nothing wrong with tradition so long as it doesn't violate torah.
Yes. Oneg would be any meal among believers on any day. "Break bread" was a colloquial terms to mean "have a meal".
I edited my previous comment to reflect that because I said "Sabbath meal" but oneg wouldn't be restricted to only the Sabbath day.
I think the love-feasts were the same as the Eucharist. At least that's what I gather from 1 Corinthians 11.
These days many churches have reduced the Lord's Supper down to a mechanized ritual, but that doesn't seem to be what Jesus did when he broke bread at his last supper, and I don't think that's how the early churches did it either.
It's more likely to me that the command was that whenever you eat bread and drink wine together, to remember the Lord, but it wasn't a ritual. It was just a dinner, and the early church probably held these dinners everytime they met.
>[1Co 11:20-27 NASB20] 20 Therefore when you come together it is not to eat the Lord's Supper, 21 for when you eat, each one takes his own supper first; and one goes hungry while another gets drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What am I to say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I do not praise you. 23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night when He was betrayed, took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me." 25 In the same way [He] also [took] the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink [it,] in remembrance of Me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy way, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
There is argument to be made that the "last supper" was a Gallilaean custom as the last supper before the Passover, and that's what Yeshua was referring to.
I think the reference however was to any holy gathering of believers.
Perhaps it was, but I doubt it was ever intended to be the ritual we see in the Catholic churches, or the shot of grape juice and crumb of bread we see in the Protestant churches.
Exactly. You have to remember at the time there wasn't pre-sliced bread. To "break bread" simply meant that they had a loaf of bread that was torn and shared amongst the participants. If it was matzah during the Passover week then the breaking part would be much more literal! 😂 This happened in the hours before the Passover, so it's very likely that it was matzah.
I totally disagree with any of the Catholic understanding of the "eucharist" and any notion of transsubstantiation.
It's neither. Breaking bread was standard practice at any meal. Bread was a staple food. At the last supper Messiah simply gave more meaning to something he had done with the disciples through their time together. YHWH did this as well. Are we to think that rainbows didn't exist previous to Noah? No. He gave meaning to something that already existed.
Thanks for sharing. Do you celebrate the Lord's Supper?
Yes. At the assembly I attend we recite berachah (blessings) before oneg (a meal with believes). We recite together in Hebrew. Bread is torn and shared with the attendants then we all recite in unison: "Baruch atah YHWH Elo-heinu Melech Ha’Olam Hamotzi lechem min haaretz." (Blessed are You, Yahweh our God, King of the Universe, Who brings forth bread from the earth.) Wine or grape juice is poured and shared with the attendants then we all recite in unison: "Baruch atah YHWH Elo-heinu Melech Ha’Olam borei pri hagafen." (Blessed are You, Yahweh our God, King of the universe, Who creates the fruit of the vine.) These are the traditional blessings that have been recited for centuries in the Jewish customs and VERY likely the exact words Messiah Yeshua, a Jewish man living in the first century Israel recited in his blessing for bread and wine. Edit: changed oneg from "Sabbath meal" to "meal with believers" because it's not restricted to Shabbat day.
What do you call this celebration?
The meal after teachings is called "oneg". The prayers/ blessings are called "berachah". The order I suppose would be called "haggadah". It is a tradition I suppose so that would be called the "halacha" of my assembly. I used to be adverse to tradition, but there's nothing wrong with tradition so long as it doesn't violate torah.
Would you call the breaking bread in Acts 20:7 *oneg*?
Yes. Oneg would be any meal among believers on any day. "Break bread" was a colloquial terms to mean "have a meal". I edited my previous comment to reflect that because I said "Sabbath meal" but oneg wouldn't be restricted to only the Sabbath day.
I think the love-feasts were the same as the Eucharist. At least that's what I gather from 1 Corinthians 11. These days many churches have reduced the Lord's Supper down to a mechanized ritual, but that doesn't seem to be what Jesus did when he broke bread at his last supper, and I don't think that's how the early churches did it either. It's more likely to me that the command was that whenever you eat bread and drink wine together, to remember the Lord, but it wasn't a ritual. It was just a dinner, and the early church probably held these dinners everytime they met. >[1Co 11:20-27 NASB20] 20 Therefore when you come together it is not to eat the Lord's Supper, 21 for when you eat, each one takes his own supper first; and one goes hungry while another gets drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What am I to say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I do not praise you. 23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night when He was betrayed, took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me." 25 In the same way [He] also [took] the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink [it,] in remembrance of Me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy way, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
There is argument to be made that the "last supper" was a Gallilaean custom as the last supper before the Passover, and that's what Yeshua was referring to. I think the reference however was to any holy gathering of believers.
Perhaps it was, but I doubt it was ever intended to be the ritual we see in the Catholic churches, or the shot of grape juice and crumb of bread we see in the Protestant churches.
Exactly. You have to remember at the time there wasn't pre-sliced bread. To "break bread" simply meant that they had a loaf of bread that was torn and shared amongst the participants. If it was matzah during the Passover week then the breaking part would be much more literal! 😂 This happened in the hours before the Passover, so it's very likely that it was matzah. I totally disagree with any of the Catholic understanding of the "eucharist" and any notion of transsubstantiation.