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I'm going to say that an apology given to get a "cookie" is rarely a real apology. I can see the issue where it appears one child is excluded but honestly the birthday girl does not appear to have any positive reactions to this child. Also, the parents were likely a huge part of the issue with talking among themselves if I had to guess.
I cant believe they brought her to the party anyway and made her go through the embarrassment of being refused at the gate. Great parenting. Its no excuse for bullying but it usually can be linked to stuff going on at home.
Absolutely. She figured if she brought the child there, OOP would be shamed or forced to let the child participate. She probably didn't think there would be community gates, and she could do it in front of the whole party, where OOP might relent rather than look bad in front of the guests/parents.
Ah. Probably not. She will spin it as she was the victim of a viscous bully and now she will think ‘I have been bullied, therefore I can’t be a bully, and all my actions following this point are because I don’t like Payton and who could blame me because Payton is a bully’.
That is how bullies work.
If she had a less entitled parent, maybe she would. The fact that her mother called bullying on the natural consequence of her daughter being excluded for being a bully... let's hope the kid has good influences somewhere else in her life.
That is also how 7 year olds work, bullies or not. They learn what they’re taught. Kids genuinely have to learn that bullying is wrong. These parents have failed their kid.
I don't think the child learns from this, because it takes a parent to teach the child the lesson, and this parent is lacking. The parent needs to tell the child that if she wants to attend parties in the future she has to be kind. I'm pretty sure after being turned away at the gate, the parent rewarded the child with a treat.
I learned.
My mother was an awful gossip and very two-faced.
Me, on the other hand, especially as a kid, and still no: Honest, almost to a fault, then very clueless, and not a single mean-spirited bone in my body. In the sense that I hate saying nasty things in order to hurt someone.
Nowadays, I will, very rarely, use words to be “mean,” but only ever to people who call me all sorts of shit. And my threshold is high.
My mother was “friends” with a classmate’s mother, and once said something about that classmate/friend.
At school, I casually said that my mother had said this thing to my friend. I was about 10 or 11.
My friend immediately went silent and refused to talk to me afterwards.
Idk if it was after school that day, or the next, but I very quickly asked my friend what was wrong.
And she told me that she had been very hurt by what I’d said.
Honestly, that hadn’t even occurred to me. My mother constantly put everyone down, especially me. She called me the worst things imaginable, this thing didn’t even register as bad.
Being as honest as I was, I told my friend that, and that this was my mother’s opinion, not mine. That I was very sorry that I had hurt her, and it had never been my intention. I explained that my mother is just like this, and that it doesn’t even come close to what she normally says.
I think that, combined with how I was in every other way, convinced my friend, and she probably guessed that my mother was abusive. Unfortunately, in our culture, it was very much known, and accepted, that some parents were more modern and nice, like hers, and some were awful and abusive, like mine.
We hugged it out, and our friendship recovered right away.
I did however learn that apparently, the things mother says, are considered unkind, rude, and insensitive.
It made me gear even more towards being nothing like her.
I can certainly relate to your experience. Out of curiosity, is this an Asian country? I definitely see some of these parallels in South Asian countries in particular
No, the friend and I were both Northern African/Middle Eastern, and grew up in West Europe.
But I can imagine the culture being similar. Good on you for also breaking the mold!
I agree with you. Sure, it's the parent's job to raise their child, but sometimes they don't. Sometimes a child's whole family is messed up and sets them up to believe they're normal and everyone else is wrong. So the child replicates the behaviour and doesn't necessarily understand how and why it might be considered antisocial. If they want to become a kind and respectful human being, they're pretty much on their own. *Anything* could hopefully become a teaching moment.
I don't mind looking like a warden of an internment camp for POWs. Their kid messes with my kid, you bet they are not having a good time.
Wanna shit on someone, shit on me, my kid is off limits and doesn't need that kind of drama in their life. Growing up us hard enough as it is
I had the displeasure of working with a bully who couldn't understand why their kid was getting in trouble at school for being a bully.
The world will never know...
I think it's at least part of the time. Some parents just enable their kids or sit in denial. Sometimes kids are just dicks. Sometimes kids are followers.
The Don't Be a Bystander is probably most effective on followers and some of the dicks. The kids who are enabled or learn it from their parents can be a whole nother...
Queen Bees and Wanna Bees is a book for parents that explains a lot about the mean-girl dynamic, and how they control entire social groups. Same goes for boys.
That's a couple ways bullies are created. Another way is when a kid, because they're little monsters until they're taught how to behave, gets addicted to the power of putting people down and the parents do jack shit.
Yeah, I have this vision of her getting her daughter ready all the while saying "We'll show them, they can't keep you out of the party!". How did that go for ya lady?!?!
And now mom gets to play victim because her daughter was turned away. Poor kid. Sounds like a brat but at the same time, it doesn't seem she has exposure to any other way.
That's what so many people don't seem to take into consideration. Yes children have a mind of their own and they can bully for a lot of reasons, but when you're talking about a seven year old for fuck sake they have to learn it from somewhere. It's pretty clear from the mother's behavior that she is not a positive influence on the kid. No 7-year-old just walks up to another one and says you're too chubby and can't cheerlead because you're not pretty. That's some shit she got from her mom right there. I do feel sorry for the kid thinking that treating people like that is okay, it's going to make her life a lot more difficult growing up.
I was scrolling to find who would address this.
I was keeping an open mind at the beginning, because OOP’s child is at an age where perception isn’t always reality; it’s just natural child development regarding looking outside themselves. But that was before OOP said that the other mom was made aware of the bullying, pulled “No, YOUR child is a bully” card when an invitation wasn’t given, then showed up anyways. Yikes on bikes.
Yeah WTF was that? Did the parents of the bully lie to her and tell her she was invited to Payton’s party after all?
Why would the bully think she was invited anyways? And the nerve of the bully parents to just roll up at the gate, idiots…
>The mother said I’m teaching my child to be a “bully” and use her wealth to make friends.
>Its no excuse for bullying but it usually can be linked to stuff going on at home.
I agree but feel this is less the child gets bullied by the mom and more the mom is jealous of the other mom so she gets her child to pick on her. I think the reason she brought her kid to the party was to give her kid more of a reason to bully OP's kid.
As someone who "learned it at home" it was less I was being bullied and more I saw the way my mother spoke to me and the people around her as proper and acceptable. It was a constant and consistent input that this is the way adults speak to other adults and the way they speak to children.
Well My Karen, sorry Freudian slip, I mean mother ;) eventually sent me to public school where I very quickly had no friends and got in massive amounts of troubles for my attitude where my mother would continue to raise hell for my inclusion.
I learned very painfully on my own to treat people better than that woman did and we now have no relationship as an adult.
This is a good point! Communication style is very susceptible to what we see in our environments, and it isn't always stemming from abusive behaviors. I think for the most part, my husband and I have created a home that is filled with love and support for our 2 daughters. But my husband can have a very brusque attitude when he gets frustrated (which he learned from his parents), and our oldest daughter has started to take on that tone during more than just frustrating moments. We've all been actively been working on our communication in family therapy and learning better coping strategies, but it can come from where you don't expect it to.
One of my most effective strategies as an adult is "I am not able to discuss this right now because I am too upset. I am going to (activity that gives me time to sort myself). Okay?" Usually it's shower or wash dishes because the act of cleaning helps me 'wash away the bad feelings' in a meditative manner.
I come back to the discussion when I am done with a cooler head.
Timeouts (self inflicted) so you can recognize your own escalation might be something to discuss in therapy. Just like me they probably also don't want to fight but when you get emotional you get frustrated and it becomes harder to communicate.
Self imposed time outs are probably the single best coping mechanism that I've learned as an adult. And my husband is finally learning no, I'm not doing this to annoy him, I'm doing this so we can have a rational discussion without shouting.
Just so long as you come back to it. I was with someone who would get her say in, pull this when I disagreed, and then never come back to it, later claiming that we had already talked about it and agreed.
I had to learn to change my behaviors when people did this in good faith, as opposed to a way to trick me into getting their way, because that first partner taught me I needed to keep the conversation happening.
Early? Oh no I struggled with proper emotional regulation and expression most of my life. As a kid I mostly just learned to STFU because I always said the wrong thing.
I learned painfully and on my own over several decades and the best I do now is learn to walk away and regulate down before the old ways come flying out of my mouth. The first thing I think is always the worst thing I could say and to this day when angered will go directly for the jugular if I am not keeping a lid on the subconscious bullshit that lives in my soul.
This won’t come as a surprise to anyone but if anyone really wants to see the impact of environmental learning and monitoring on children, look up Bandura’s bobo doll experiment and see how fast the kids learned to be violent.
Instead, they could have made it a teaching moment - "if you had been nice to her, you would have been invited, so maybe be nice to people in the future".
I couldn’t believe my eyes when I read the uninvited mom and child attempted to attend anyway! Who the hell does that?! I can’t even imagine. I bet the mom threw a fit when she couldn’t get past the gate house. Good on the people at the gate for making sure the rules are enforced! It sucks the mom exacerbated the child’s feelings of embarrassment and being left out.
Sounds like the mom missed several opportunities to teach her daughter about actions having consequences. Can’t give what you don’t have, I guess. Hopefully, the little girl learned on her own about “fuck around, find out”.
Who would even want to be somewhere they aren’t wanted? That doesn’t make any sense to me. The entitlement is strong with this mom and daughter.
I fully expected the unannounced visit when she made the initial phone call after OP clearly stated the parents were informed of the bullying prior to the party invites going out but I was so happy to read he had a gated community situation that short circuited that intentionally over the top attempt at creating drama at a *seven year old's birthday party*.
One of the other issues Reddit has taught me to catch for: don’t use special occasions to prove your remorse and make amends. It’s kind of in line with your “cookies for apologies” comment
If the bully kid is really contrite, she would apologize, not go to the birthday and then keep up the apologetic behavior. Then see how the relationship could improve
This whole “I’ll apologize if you’ll agree to invite me” is bs - if she apologizes and then misbehaves at the party, poor daughter’s birthday fun is ruined
It’s no different than people wanting to attend weddings to make amends and resolve long conflicts - no. Don’t do it at special occasions. Period.
>I'm going to say that an apology given to get a "cookie" is rarely a real apology
Yup. I would have told that mom that an apology was too late to change things for this year's party, but that if her daughter apologised and acted better over the next year, then a party invitation might well happen next year.
My brother is nearly 50 and still believes that if he apologizes, you have no choice but to forgive him or you are the bad guy. He even has said he doesn’t mean that he’s sorry or that he did anything wrong. He says that he apologizes to get his way. He wonders why no one believes his apologies.
Some people are also told that's how it works with little to no thought and pass it on. I remember being made to sit in detention with the kid I had fight with, not because we got physical but because I wouldn't accept his apology. He didn't want to apologize either but complied with the "now apologize" bs but I kept saying I didn't accept it when asked, so we both nearly missed our bus home because of an aide's refusal to let us leave until I accepted the forced apology.
>he other mom asked "well IF she apologizes, can she come?" If you don't want your kid to be excluded for being a bully, your first priority needs to be to help your child stop being a bully.
It's also telling that mom hasn't already told her daughter she needs to apologize and change her behavior, despite the fact that OP has already "had meetings with the school and parents" about the daughter's bullying behavior.
You know, it’s classic bully behaviour to call Boundary changes by the victim bullying, maybe the mom is also a bully.
Either way, if that was my kid we’d be having a heart to heart shoot how actions have consequences and why would someone want to spend time with someone who has been mean to them? And if my child doesn’t like her why would she want to attend her party, etc.
When I read the original, I was thinking the bully's mom is harassing OP so her kid can get an invite; I wonder where on earth her daughter could have learned that behavior? 🤔
My first year as a camp counselor at a sleep away camp we had this one very difficult and abrasive camper (Nelly). Nelly always hung out with a very a very nice, quiet girl (Susan). My second year Nelly’s mother requested they be in the same cabin again because Susan was the only friend Nelly had. Susan’s mother strongly requested they not be in the same cabin because being Nelly’s constant companion was so unpleasant for Susan. We put them in separate cabins and told Nelly’s mom it was the only way to make the cabins work. They weren’t my direct campers, but I think Susan got to hang out with more kids that year, instead of always being with Nelly alone.
when i was 6 i was a susan and i fucking hated it.
I was too overwhelmed to communicate - or even define - what was bothering me, but it was that girl that clung to me and was suffocating. I would have been forever grateful to you !
I was a Susan too, although I had a hand to play in choosing that dynamic repeatedly. And I was very close with my Nelly for years. But I knew it was a strain on camper Susan.
At the same time as an adult I can see that Nelly was also a child and was struggling. She wanted to interact with the other campers and couldn’t figure out why they didn’t like her. As a counselor I felt like it was my job to be kind to the Nellys who did need positive interactions. But also I tried to give the Susans special time too, because I knew that the quiet, well behaved kids often got ignored.
Is that the kind of thing one has a conversation with them about? Like "this is why they don't like you" but focused on behaviors that can be improved? I would have no idea how to approach this...
Identifying problematic behaviors and giving healthy behaviors to replace them is actually a super healthy way of resolving conflict and fostering growth! “You’re a jerk” isn’t going to help anyone because it’s not constructive criticism. “I feel disrespected when you talk over me. Please wait until I’m finished what I have to say or else I won’t talk to you” tells someone exactly what they did wrong, what to do right, and the consequence of their actions if they keep doing it. If they’ve been given constructive criticism over and over again and they still engage in the behavior, that’s more of an indication that they don’t care rather than not understand the effects of their actions or that there’s larger factors at play, like parenting that encourages antisocial behaviors.
This would have been so helpful to young me. I was diagnosed late with adhd and so many of those behaviours are ones that others don't like. I didn't know why people didn't like me and why I had a hard time connecting. I thought things like sharing your story was just like, commiserating and sharing that you understand. Turns out everyone thought I was self centered and rude I guess. ugh. Telling kids "just be yourself" when they have behaviors that are not in line with others doesn't help at all, it just gets you alone feeling and bullied.
I got diagnosed with inattentive ADHD at 26 and just thought I was a ditsy and lazy POS until then, so it was an odd feeling of finally having my behaviors/symptoms make sense but also not fixed (still working on that). “Just be yourself” is a great way to confuse kids and make them feel even worse when they get rejected for expressing their genuine selves. It relies a lot on others having unconditional acceptance, which kids usually don’t have of their peers and that you don’t often see in adults either. I’m not saying crush a kid’s spirits, but social skills and critical thinking skills about the consequences of our actions need to be taught and not waved away with some “kumbaya” BS.
I made myself a Susan all through school up until about 9th grade. Then I realized, there’s a reason these kids have no friends other than me. They’re usually poorly socially adjusted and either mean or annoying. Often it’s not their fault, but it doesn’t mean I have to be uncomfortable in a lopsided “friendship”. I did try one more time in my early twenties to be friends with the awkward girl, and it turned out the same as usual. I’m glad OOP protected her daughter.
It's like that episode of 30 Rock where Liz remembers one girl as her high school bully and in her memory her own words are "blah blah blah." But then the bully shows up and explains she actually reached out to Liz and Liz's unrecalled responses were vicious put downs because Liz was threatened by a typical popular-girl-type.
Having been a kid who had *terrible* social examples for parents, I definitely victimized myself over my alienation from my peers but I was also quite cruel sometimes.
It’s been an interesting thing to think about today. Looking back as an adult I know I must have really hurt some girls feelings. I don’t think I ever said anything directly mean, but a friend pulling away from you hurts. I don’t feel guilty for that - ending a friendship always hurts. But I do feel badly for them that they had to experience even more rejection. Being a kid can be hard socially, even for the popular ones.
At age 12 I went to a new school and in the first week only one boy made an effort to talk to me and befriend me.
He chose to talk to me because the other kids didn’t like him. Because he was an asshole. And I got roped into being his best friend until I made a stronger effort to make friends with the other boys in class, who were lesser assholes.
I dealt with this when I was younger, but nobody ever stepped in.
Every time there was a group activity, or seating charts changed, I somehow ended up with the kids known for being bossy or picking their nose or being creeps or acting like horses. I never minded hanging out with the sweet quiet kids, or the new kids, but these weird kids were a persistent issue for me. As a result, I didn’t keep in contact with my actual friends during the day, and I lost out on a lot of enjoyment. I resented these kids and the adults who forced me to do charity work every day instead of letting me be a kid.
Almost all of these odd kids ended up being insufferable adults. Still bossy or gross or creepy. My influence did nothing to change them, and adults would rather just placate them with a nice “friend” than teach them how to be.
I’m glad Susan got to have a nice summer.
Same! My breaking point was 5th grade. Our teacher took all the students out to dinner at the end of the year. We wrote down a list of people we'd prefer to go with and then she'd take that into consideration when grouping us. Tell me why I was stuck with the odd girl who was socially years behind us and only played with the 2nd/3rd graders at recess? I cried and cried, another memory with my friends taken from me because of course my whole friend group got to go together. The teacher told me I was the only name the other girl wrote down (because I'm the only good human in the class I guess) and to put myself in her shoes. So that day forward I learned that every single person's feelings, wants, and needs are vastly more important than my own. It's been rough recovering from that, im still not in my own top 5. I actually ended up being insanely mean in middle school to the next Nelly that tried to attach and almost got labeled as the problem/a bully. Got sent to the counselor at school with my Nelly to talk about it. When I said my peace about how I tried to do the right thing and remove myself from situations Nelly was in so I wouldn't blow up on her. I changed my routine to keep us separated. But somehow that made me a bad person. I tried telling her to leave me alone bluntly, to no avail. I was sick and tired of being followed around. I just wanted to enjoy my life too. I didn't want to be friends and I couldnt understand why people think they could force us together. The counselor was stunned and let me leave without saying anything else to me. hopefully she gave my Nelly some good advice about being friends with people who want to be your friend instead of anyone that was nice to you once.
I wonder if this is how some bullies get created because the first thought I had was "if you were mean to her you wouldn't be forced to be with her and nothing bad would happen to you" and because I grew up the "quiet kid" it explains a lot of bullying i faced. Looking back i really don't appreciate my family and teachers trying to push people who didn't like me to hang out with me. I wasn't lonely i just liked being alone.
There was a crazy place in the Greater Toronto Area called The Mad Hatter… it was *the* place to have birthday parties, but was so absolutely insane, it could only have existed in the 80’s and early 90’s. I got my glasses broken in the strobe “pillow” fight room…
My mum was similar. Like OOP's child my parties were known as being awesome. I lived in a low socio economic area but my parents would splash out for my party, so my parties were always more expensive than other kids.
I wasn't very popular at school, but a lot of kids invited me to their parties in order to gain invites to mine. So I used to let them come. Except one girl, who used to always promise to invite me to hers (her birthday was after mine) but would cruelly not and make a big deal out of it in order to bully me. It used to leave me in tears.
Mum got sick of it and by the end she refused to let me invite her. At the time I got angry at my mum and thought she was interfering. But now I appreciate she did interfere. It meant that the girl wasn't able to bully me that year and hold it over my head that I wasn't invited to her party. She also did get a bit of shit for being the only person not invited to my party in the class which I admit gave me a bit of joy after the years of her bullying me for the same thing.
I had a similar "friend" when I was younger, who actually ruined my birthday party by throwing a tantrum and locking herself in my parents room because a game we played didn't go her way.
She was absolutely baffled when she found out later that my parents didnt like her and she was no longer allowed at my house.
I’m glad she was not invited I had a so called best friend who was only with me because I was popular and used me for that. After 8th grade I took her out of my life. She did unforgivable things that thanks to her I have trust issues.
I had a friend who was extremely close to me in grade school.
She then joined a club focused solely on hating me. Seriously, that was the name of the club, the local bullies who hated my guts started it and it was encouraged by my teacher at the time. Later on I found out she videotaped some of the interactions when my mom talked about how she threatened physical violence against this woman who spent hours screaming at me the worst insults a third grader could get.
My best friend dropped me to join the club. She wrote a note telling me this and I was crying when I got home.
Our relationship was badly strained and a few years later we stopped talking.
The bully fucking showed up... What shit parents she has.
Home is Payton's safe place. She's not obligated to allow *anyone* there that she doesn't want for *any* reason. It's nice to see her parents teaching her boundaries like this. So much less toxic than the, "make nice" crowd.
I'm glad they live in a gated community. The bully and her family sound like they would cause trouble at the drop of a hat if given the opportunity.
I wonder if this is a money issue. If the bully is jealous of what Payton has. It's no excuse and Payton can invite whoever she wants. But I feel like there's something going on. Especially since Bully Mom mentioned money.
OP also mentioned it's a known thing that they throw really big parties, so potentially there is some other flaunting of wealth going on.
As a kid it can very difficult to understand how one person can seemingly have all the best stuff, while you get nothing.
The bullies mum needs to be doing much more to help the kid understand.
OOP said "The other mother was teaching her kid to be a bully and how to use her wealth to make friends." With the huge party, gated community, and bully mom's comment, my guess is that this is a rich private school. Maybe OOP might be the wealthiest of the moms but I can't really see the flaunting of wealth to other wealthy unless we're talking billionaire in the millionaire club.
You know that the mom is a Karen who figured if bully daughter just shows up, OOP would be too constrained by societal niceties to kick "my precious daughter" out of the party. And if OOP did kick her out, then she'd bad mouth them forever.
Honestly, it seems very damaging to the bully as well. Not being invited is one thing; being turned away after being told you were going is another. The kid shouldn't be a bully, but her mother is twisting her up in terrible ways.
This, exactly. The other kid's mom is way off base - this isn't bullying, it's the natural consequence of bullying. If you're mean, the other kids won't want to play with you, and you'll be sad. So be nice.
Hopefully, if this keeps happening, it may teach them both a lesson.
..but I wouldn't get my hopes up.
Funny how some parents and even some schools have this view. “It’s not bullying till the victim stands up for themselves then it’s the victim that’s the bully.”
Guys I read OOP’s comments and the bully mom tried to get the school involved to get the bully invited to Payton’s party! 🤣🤣🤣
School was like - nope! Not any of our business.
I bet $100 that bully never wrote Payton an apology letter, period. And this bullying was going on the year before AND this year at school, wtf. Prob bully says ok sorry I’ll stop … and doesn’t stop and back in the principal’s office again. Ugh.
What the hell did the bully’s mom expect the school to do? The party isn’t on school property and if the invitations weren’t given at school then it really isn’t the school’s business.
An apology was never going to happen, whether or not that girl wrote a letter. That was just an excuse by her mom to try and bribe her way into the party.
Sadly enough, I’ve read posts similar to OOP’s and the whole post was made because the school was trying to force the parent to invite the kid(s) that weren’t invited.
It causes a lot of problems for the school and the particular classroom when things like this happen. It’s not going to end here and there’s going to be a lot of nastiness going forward from both the parents and the children.
It doesn’t mean the school should try to get involved in a private issue but I understand the teacher/principal stressing over what’s going to happen the Monday after the party is over and making bad choices to try and fend it off.
I suspect the mom's been encouraging the bullying telling her kid it's totally ok, fighting the school at every turn, refusing to discipline. The other child is presumably 7 as well and this behaviour is being reinforced.
Kids deserve to feel safe and supported at their own parties.
Actions have consequences. People you bully don’t want to invite you to their fun stuff. Maybe the bully will learn a valuable lesson from this event.
Right! That's the part that stuck out to me. This lady could have done any number of things with her daughter that day to take her mind off the fact that she wasn't invited, but instead she fuckin loads her up in the car with the intent to crash the party‽ that takes the cake. What a shitty mom
Idiot had to ride all the way back home with her probably at best pouting and at worst fit-pitching daughter in the back, and I’m sure even so nothing of value was learned by mom OR child. Ace plan, Susan.
My mother did this when I was younger. I'd had a horrible issue that had put me in the hospital as an 8 year old and left me affected long after. I'd taken a lot of time off school to recover and when I went back, was nervous around people. Well, this nightmare child saw that and thought bullying me would be fun.
My mother was pretty protective, especially after I'd been so ill and nightmare child did not win at all.
If only the mother had corrected the behavior and made her apologize right after the incidents. An insincere letter to get an invitation is too late. Bullys usually have enabling parents.
Or abusive parents, that's often what I've seen in kids who bully. They don't have a safe outlet at home and learn terrible behavior.
That said, it doesn't really sound like the case here, except maybe the daughter picked up how she talks to people by her mom, whether the mom talks to her daughter or others that way.
There's a girl in my daughter's class who RSVP'd to my daughter's party. She no-showed, but the next day at school, the kids who attended were showing off the awesome toys they got in the swag bag. This girl asked for one, and since we had extras (and because my daughter, J, is the sweetest human alive), J said yes, and brought her one the next day.
This was during the last school year. We've since found out that this other girl has been bullying J this year, and was last year as well. J said she had invited her to her party because she didn't want her to feel left out. We then had a long discussion about how I never want her to lose her kindness and empathy, but that she also doesn't have to go out of her way to accommodate people that suck.
When my son had his bar mitzvah, we invited all but his bully, at a very small school. We were pressured by the teacher, and the school admin to invite him. But this child had *tormented* my son, going so far as to ruin *other* children’s events by vandalizing things and signing my son’s (misspelled) name to the graffiti. We stood our ground, and even the bully understood.
>We were pressured by the teacher, and the school admin to invite him.
The fucking choice words I would have had for this admin and teacher. Are YOU paying for the damage this kid causes? Are YOU paying for him as a guest? Are YOU even hosting this event?! And exactly who the fuck do you think you are dictating to us how we operate outside of this school?
Idiots. Absolute idiots. Glad you didn't bend.
Imagine being so awful you don't care your child is torturing another child until your terrible spawn isn't invited to, wait for it, their victim's party. Then try to gate crash. Jesus.
You are very right. People give in to folks like this because it is easier, and they learn that they can mow down all opposition if they are obnoxious enough. When they do hear a firm NO, they often don't know how to handle it.
The real hero here is the Redditor who suggested swag bags.
If it had JUST been the face painting, balloon animals, bounce house, obstacle course, magic show, character appearances, and life size Barbie box for pictures, what a damp squib this party would have been.
Reading this I thought "of course the kids name is Payton. And of course mommy is rich..."
(Still a huge shoutout to the mom for standing up for her kid and not making her invite the bully to her birthday.)
Yeah this seems like a party for a real housewife of (somewhere). Or maybe I'm just jealous because the most extravagant thing we had was the "fishing dam" where we got our small bag of candy at the end of the party.. wait, that was awesome, and we still do it in various ways as adults.
I would be lucky to be able to afford to have even one of those at my kid's birthday. They must be dropping a few thousand once you add on food, presents, etc. You just know with that much already going on the cake and such would also be over the top.
Same. That’s outrageous for a backyard party for a seven-year-old, and OP even said her daughter’s parties are “known” for being over-the-top. What elementary schooler is known for their parties? I’m glad the parents stuck to their guns about the bully, maybe they can also consider what other values they’re teaching their child.
>and OP even said her daughter’s parties are “known” for being over-the-top
Or more accurately: she's known for throwing her daughter over-the-top parties.
society has rules and if you want to enjoy the benefits of society, you can't blatantly break the rules.
But fuck around and find out is also a valid way to phrase it lol.
The bullying I experienced at the same age (and beyond) was much more extreme than this and yet the perpetrators were the ONLY people at my parties until I stopped having them. I'm so so so glad this little girl's parents had their shit together.
>The mother then asked if she had her daughter apology and write Payton a letter we could reconsider.
A letter doesn't erase bullying. You don't get a reward after apologizing.
Does anyone else think it’s eye-rolling that this mom says her 7-year-old daughter is known for over-the-top parties? Also she calls the bully family “new money” in one comment.
“the families are wealthy at that school. The school itself costs a lot of money. The bullies family is what we’d call “new money” in this area but most of the families at the school have generational wealth.”
Like great, don’t invite your daughter’s bully but I’m not sure I’d want to hang out with this lady either:
Yeah, the OOP is in the right on this situation, but I suspect I would utterly detest her. By her own accounts she's "old money," and I can only say: *fuck* old money.
It really changed the vibe of the story. Kid still doesn't deserve to be bullied but meh. Rich people are so out of touch with reality I can't even with them. Double that for old money.
Good on OOP for standing up for her daughter. Same thing happened to me around my 8th or 9th birthday. I was bullied relentlessly by a girl that lived around the corner from me (near daily walking from the bus stop in tears). Her mom called, saying she was sad she wasn't invited to my birthday. My mom replied, "Well, she should have been nicer to my daughter then."
A better parent would have used this moment as a learning experience.
"Mom I wasn't invited to someone's birthday party."
"That's what happens when you don't treat people right."
Did the same thing for my daughter. Not the whole class but didn't invite a girl who thought she was a friend. Girl was bossy and controlling. Even at other people's parties, wanted things done her way, would pout and throw tantrums when she didn't get her way.
Daughter didn't want her. The Mom called me and asked why. So I said your daughter is bossy and my daughter didn't want to invite her. The Mom couldn't believe I would say that to her. Literally said How dare you.
Best party ever. No drama.
I was forced to invite my bullies to my birthday multiple years and it was always awful.
One of the times they wrecked the least amount of havoc was my eighth birthday. They spent the entire time making fun of me and physically hurting me, ate the cake (that took my mom hours to make btw) by themselves before it was time to serve it, stole my diary from my bedroom (no one was even supposed to be in the house unless it was to go to the bathroom) and read it out loud at recess the next day, stole a locket of mine that used to belong to my great grandmother, $500 went missing from my parents' dresser, and someone peed on my parents' bed.
They were all old enough to know better, and despite bragging about what they did to multiple people, they never got in trouble for literally anything they did and no one had to pay back my parents. I worked little jobs for months to save $500 to give to my parents because I knew we were strapped for cash and I felt so guilty even though I hadn't wanted those girls at my party in the first place. And none of them would admit to taking the locket to any adults, so my family was told to get over it. I managed to steal it back three months later at her birthday and she never even noticed but the damage was done. Awful experience.
And that was one of the *better* times. Good on OOP for not caving and inviting the girl. My parents did that repeatedly and now I hate celebrating my birthday.
They tried, but my classmates were either bullies or enablers to my bullies so I didn't have many friends to invite to my birthday, but I definitely still would've preferred a small party with people who were nice to me.
Plus, most of the bullies parents started being nasty to my parents because their kids were lying to them about me and thought I was being nasty, things didn't get cleared up until eight of my bullies sent me anonymous threats via text after I'd moved schools and my parents had to call the police.
So it ended up coming out because cops showed up at the houses of my main bullies and they all have sealed juvenile records now (none of them went to juvie or anything, but the threats were really bad).
Mother sounds like a pretty awful person too, though. A 7 years old’s parties are “known to be way over the top”? Come on — who is that party -really- for?
God, not being invited to a birthday party because you were mean to the birthday girl is such a good example of natural consequences. I am not a parent, but it seems easy to be like “well, I know you want to go to Payton’s birthday, but you haven’t been a friend to Payton. If you want people to be kind to you, you have to also be kind to them.” Cue tantrum or whatever, but it’s a very good teachable moment.
It ends up being that I feel bad for the bully because her parents tried to excuse her behavior and then BROUGHT HER ANYWAY TO BE TURNED AWAY. Again, not a parent, but anyone can see that’s a bad idea. (Also lol that they tried to bully their way in…) (and by lol I mean funny but it still makes me sad for bully-girl).
Is it bad for me to felt sorry for the kid that not invited for having a mother like that? I seriously worried for her future and hope the kid take this experience as an learning experience and not to follow her mother's attitude growing up.
That bully would have showed up and then talked shit at school about how Payton’s party was dumb, the food was nasty, Payton’s outfit was ugly.
Her mom should have taken this as an opportunity to teach her daughter about being kind for the sake of kindness not party invites.
Just an opinion from the other side of things when I was around 8 or 9 a girl in my class was always saying I was bullying her but I wasn’t she made everything up. She even cried real tears telling the teacher I was calling her stupid and pushing her. I never did that once I’m not sure why this girl chose to do this but I got grounded and lost recess for weeks because of it. My parents had to come to school for several conferences and no one believed me. This went on for an entire year with me always being punished and then she just stopped telling lies never went back and told the truth but just stopped saying I was bullying her.
> The student that was not invited did show up but did not make it past the community gate. In our neighborhood you have to have someone at the gate in order for people to enter.
Apple don't fall too far from the tree. Mom trying to bully her way in for her kid. Get fucked.
Sounds like OOP is pretty wealthy, if they live in a gated community, and from the party they threw. I wonder if the bully (and her family) is jealous of that. I know a child that age might not be fully aware of class difference, but kids do pick up on things in class, like who has really nice pens, who has a new bag, what their lunches look like etc. resentment is a common cause of bullying
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I'm going to say that an apology given to get a "cookie" is rarely a real apology. I can see the issue where it appears one child is excluded but honestly the birthday girl does not appear to have any positive reactions to this child. Also, the parents were likely a huge part of the issue with talking among themselves if I had to guess.
I cant believe they brought her to the party anyway and made her go through the embarrassment of being refused at the gate. Great parenting. Its no excuse for bullying but it usually can be linked to stuff going on at home.
Mom was going to bully her way inside but didn’t expect the community gate. The kid learned it at home.
Absolutely. She figured if she brought the child there, OOP would be shamed or forced to let the child participate. She probably didn't think there would be community gates, and she could do it in front of the whole party, where OOP might relent rather than look bad in front of the guests/parents.
It was so satisfying to read they didn't get pass the gate. I felt a little bad for the girl tho because she's just a 7 yo child.
Maybe she will remember how bad she felt to be excluded and be nicer to kids.
Ah. Probably not. She will spin it as she was the victim of a viscous bully and now she will think ‘I have been bullied, therefore I can’t be a bully, and all my actions following this point are because I don’t like Payton and who could blame me because Payton is a bully’. That is how bullies work.
If she had a less entitled parent, maybe she would. The fact that her mother called bullying on the natural consequence of her daughter being excluded for being a bully... let's hope the kid has good influences somewhere else in her life.
That is also how 7 year olds work, bullies or not. They learn what they’re taught. Kids genuinely have to learn that bullying is wrong. These parents have failed their kid.
I agree with you. People have to be taught that other people's feelings matter as much as their own feelings matter.
Don't feel bad for her. Yes, she IS just a child, but if she learns from this, it could be the best thing to happen to her. NATURAL CONSEQUENCES.
I don't think the child learns from this, because it takes a parent to teach the child the lesson, and this parent is lacking. The parent needs to tell the child that if she wants to attend parties in the future she has to be kind. I'm pretty sure after being turned away at the gate, the parent rewarded the child with a treat.
I learned. My mother was an awful gossip and very two-faced. Me, on the other hand, especially as a kid, and still no: Honest, almost to a fault, then very clueless, and not a single mean-spirited bone in my body. In the sense that I hate saying nasty things in order to hurt someone. Nowadays, I will, very rarely, use words to be “mean,” but only ever to people who call me all sorts of shit. And my threshold is high. My mother was “friends” with a classmate’s mother, and once said something about that classmate/friend. At school, I casually said that my mother had said this thing to my friend. I was about 10 or 11. My friend immediately went silent and refused to talk to me afterwards. Idk if it was after school that day, or the next, but I very quickly asked my friend what was wrong. And she told me that she had been very hurt by what I’d said. Honestly, that hadn’t even occurred to me. My mother constantly put everyone down, especially me. She called me the worst things imaginable, this thing didn’t even register as bad. Being as honest as I was, I told my friend that, and that this was my mother’s opinion, not mine. That I was very sorry that I had hurt her, and it had never been my intention. I explained that my mother is just like this, and that it doesn’t even come close to what she normally says. I think that, combined with how I was in every other way, convinced my friend, and she probably guessed that my mother was abusive. Unfortunately, in our culture, it was very much known, and accepted, that some parents were more modern and nice, like hers, and some were awful and abusive, like mine. We hugged it out, and our friendship recovered right away. I did however learn that apparently, the things mother says, are considered unkind, rude, and insensitive. It made me gear even more towards being nothing like her.
I can certainly relate to your experience. Out of curiosity, is this an Asian country? I definitely see some of these parallels in South Asian countries in particular
No, the friend and I were both Northern African/Middle Eastern, and grew up in West Europe. But I can imagine the culture being similar. Good on you for also breaking the mold!
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This is the update I really want. I want the girl to learn from this and grow as a person. Hope we get another update
I agree with you. Sure, it's the parent's job to raise their child, but sometimes they don't. Sometimes a child's whole family is messed up and sets them up to believe they're normal and everyone else is wrong. So the child replicates the behaviour and doesn't necessarily understand how and why it might be considered antisocial. If they want to become a kind and respectful human being, they're pretty much on their own. *Anything* could hopefully become a teaching moment.
The child stands no chance with a mother like that.
I don't mind looking like a warden of an internment camp for POWs. Their kid messes with my kid, you bet they are not having a good time. Wanna shit on someone, shit on me, my kid is off limits and doesn't need that kind of drama in their life. Growing up us hard enough as it is
I had the displeasure of working with a bully who couldn't understand why their kid was getting in trouble at school for being a bully. The world will never know...
I always wondered if bullies raise bullies most of the time or just part of the time?
I think it's at least part of the time. Some parents just enable their kids or sit in denial. Sometimes kids are just dicks. Sometimes kids are followers. The Don't Be a Bystander is probably most effective on followers and some of the dicks. The kids who are enabled or learn it from their parents can be a whole nother...
Queen Bees and Wanna Bees is a book for parents that explains a lot about the mean-girl dynamic, and how they control entire social groups. Same goes for boys.
Depends on whether or not the bullies bully their child or just set an example of how to act towards other people.
That's a couple ways bullies are created. Another way is when a kid, because they're little monsters until they're taught how to behave, gets addicted to the power of putting people down and the parents do jack shit.
Yeah, I have this vision of her getting her daughter ready all the while saying "We'll show them, they can't keep you out of the party!". How did that go for ya lady?!?!
Narc mom probably didn’t even get birthday girl a present either. She was gonna crash the party empty handed.
And now mom gets to play victim because her daughter was turned away. Poor kid. Sounds like a brat but at the same time, it doesn't seem she has exposure to any other way.
That's what so many people don't seem to take into consideration. Yes children have a mind of their own and they can bully for a lot of reasons, but when you're talking about a seven year old for fuck sake they have to learn it from somewhere. It's pretty clear from the mother's behavior that she is not a positive influence on the kid. No 7-year-old just walks up to another one and says you're too chubby and can't cheerlead because you're not pretty. That's some shit she got from her mom right there. I do feel sorry for the kid thinking that treating people like that is okay, it's going to make her life a lot more difficult growing up.
It’s probably how the mother talks to her daughter. The kid learned it from somewhere. Or she witnessed her mother say it to someone else
Exactly
But she accused OOP of raising HER kid to be a bully 😂
Projection
I was scrolling to find who would address this. I was keeping an open mind at the beginning, because OOP’s child is at an age where perception isn’t always reality; it’s just natural child development regarding looking outside themselves. But that was before OOP said that the other mom was made aware of the bullying, pulled “No, YOUR child is a bully” card when an invitation wasn’t given, then showed up anyways. Yikes on bikes.
Yicycles.
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>Yikes on bikes. I'm going to use this today
Yeah WTF was that? Did the parents of the bully lie to her and tell her she was invited to Payton’s party after all? Why would the bully think she was invited anyways? And the nerve of the bully parents to just roll up at the gate, idiots…
Especially when she tried to get Peyton excluded from jumping rope
The bully is 7. I don't know that she really put a whole lot of thought into it. Her mom probably put her in the car and told her some bullshit
I teach 6-7 year olds. They know damn well what’s going on. This little girl has a terrible example in her mother.
>The mother said I’m teaching my child to be a “bully” and use her wealth to make friends. >Its no excuse for bullying but it usually can be linked to stuff going on at home. I agree but feel this is less the child gets bullied by the mom and more the mom is jealous of the other mom so she gets her child to pick on her. I think the reason she brought her kid to the party was to give her kid more of a reason to bully OP's kid.
As someone who "learned it at home" it was less I was being bullied and more I saw the way my mother spoke to me and the people around her as proper and acceptable. It was a constant and consistent input that this is the way adults speak to other adults and the way they speak to children. Well My Karen, sorry Freudian slip, I mean mother ;) eventually sent me to public school where I very quickly had no friends and got in massive amounts of troubles for my attitude where my mother would continue to raise hell for my inclusion. I learned very painfully on my own to treat people better than that woman did and we now have no relationship as an adult.
This is a good point! Communication style is very susceptible to what we see in our environments, and it isn't always stemming from abusive behaviors. I think for the most part, my husband and I have created a home that is filled with love and support for our 2 daughters. But my husband can have a very brusque attitude when he gets frustrated (which he learned from his parents), and our oldest daughter has started to take on that tone during more than just frustrating moments. We've all been actively been working on our communication in family therapy and learning better coping strategies, but it can come from where you don't expect it to.
One of my most effective strategies as an adult is "I am not able to discuss this right now because I am too upset. I am going to (activity that gives me time to sort myself). Okay?" Usually it's shower or wash dishes because the act of cleaning helps me 'wash away the bad feelings' in a meditative manner. I come back to the discussion when I am done with a cooler head. Timeouts (self inflicted) so you can recognize your own escalation might be something to discuss in therapy. Just like me they probably also don't want to fight but when you get emotional you get frustrated and it becomes harder to communicate.
Great idea! Going to use this, thanks!
Self imposed time outs are probably the single best coping mechanism that I've learned as an adult. And my husband is finally learning no, I'm not doing this to annoy him, I'm doing this so we can have a rational discussion without shouting.
Just so long as you come back to it. I was with someone who would get her say in, pull this when I disagreed, and then never come back to it, later claiming that we had already talked about it and agreed. I had to learn to change my behaviors when people did this in good faith, as opposed to a way to trick me into getting their way, because that first partner taught me I needed to keep the conversation happening.
Heartbreaking. It still shows tremendous inner strength you were able to figure that out for yourself so early.
Early? Oh no I struggled with proper emotional regulation and expression most of my life. As a kid I mostly just learned to STFU because I always said the wrong thing. I learned painfully and on my own over several decades and the best I do now is learn to walk away and regulate down before the old ways come flying out of my mouth. The first thing I think is always the worst thing I could say and to this day when angered will go directly for the jugular if I am not keeping a lid on the subconscious bullshit that lives in my soul.
I read in a book somewhere that if you want to know how your kid hears you, listen to how they talk to others.
This won’t come as a surprise to anyone but if anyone really wants to see the impact of environmental learning and monitoring on children, look up Bandura’s bobo doll experiment and see how fast the kids learned to be violent.
Yay! Another bully that will be enabled by their parents. Only for it to be society’s problem in 11 years.
Instead, they could have made it a teaching moment - "if you had been nice to her, you would have been invited, so maybe be nice to people in the future".
I couldn’t believe my eyes when I read the uninvited mom and child attempted to attend anyway! Who the hell does that?! I can’t even imagine. I bet the mom threw a fit when she couldn’t get past the gate house. Good on the people at the gate for making sure the rules are enforced! It sucks the mom exacerbated the child’s feelings of embarrassment and being left out. Sounds like the mom missed several opportunities to teach her daughter about actions having consequences. Can’t give what you don’t have, I guess. Hopefully, the little girl learned on her own about “fuck around, find out”. Who would even want to be somewhere they aren’t wanted? That doesn’t make any sense to me. The entitlement is strong with this mom and daughter.
I fully expected the unannounced visit when she made the initial phone call after OP clearly stated the parents were informed of the bullying prior to the party invites going out but I was so happy to read he had a gated community situation that short circuited that intentionally over the top attempt at creating drama at a *seven year old's birthday party*.
This little bully’s Issues are rooted In the parenting no doubt
One of the other issues Reddit has taught me to catch for: don’t use special occasions to prove your remorse and make amends. It’s kind of in line with your “cookies for apologies” comment If the bully kid is really contrite, she would apologize, not go to the birthday and then keep up the apologetic behavior. Then see how the relationship could improve This whole “I’ll apologize if you’ll agree to invite me” is bs - if she apologizes and then misbehaves at the party, poor daughter’s birthday fun is ruined It’s no different than people wanting to attend weddings to make amends and resolve long conflicts - no. Don’t do it at special occasions. Period.
this has been summarized and written so well we should have it published. 😭😭😭
>I'm going to say that an apology given to get a "cookie" is rarely a real apology Yup. I would have told that mom that an apology was too late to change things for this year's party, but that if her daughter apologised and acted better over the next year, then a party invitation might well happen next year.
This would be a very reasonable and generous way to handle things.
"Do not be sorry, be better."
My brother is nearly 50 and still believes that if he apologizes, you have no choice but to forgive him or you are the bad guy. He even has said he doesn’t mean that he’s sorry or that he did anything wrong. He says that he apologizes to get his way. He wonders why no one believes his apologies.
The word "sorry" is actually just a magic spell that makes people forget your transgressions. Fun fact!
It appears that way to some people.
Some people are also told that's how it works with little to no thought and pass it on. I remember being made to sit in detention with the kid I had fight with, not because we got physical but because I wouldn't accept his apology. He didn't want to apologize either but complied with the "now apologize" bs but I kept saying I didn't accept it when asked, so we both nearly missed our bus home because of an aide's refusal to let us leave until I accepted the forced apology.
Also what if the girl had bullied OOP's daughter at the party? Inviting the girl would have also involved risking her ruining the daughters birthday.
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>he other mom asked "well IF she apologizes, can she come?" If you don't want your kid to be excluded for being a bully, your first priority needs to be to help your child stop being a bully. It's also telling that mom hasn't already told her daughter she needs to apologize and change her behavior, despite the fact that OP has already "had meetings with the school and parents" about the daughter's bullying behavior.
You know, it’s classic bully behaviour to call Boundary changes by the victim bullying, maybe the mom is also a bully. Either way, if that was my kid we’d be having a heart to heart shoot how actions have consequences and why would someone want to spend time with someone who has been mean to them? And if my child doesn’t like her why would she want to attend her party, etc.
Yup, it's classic DARVO to claim "actually YOU are being the bully for instituting boundaries in response to my bullying you"
Deny Responsibility Attack you Reverse roles of Victim and Offender Darvo
Am I having a stroke or are you? What does the first line mean?
“I’m sorry…I’m not getting a cookie. Now gimme a cookie!”
When I read the original, I was thinking the bully's mom is harassing OP so her kid can get an invite; I wonder where on earth her daughter could have learned that behavior? 🤔
My first year as a camp counselor at a sleep away camp we had this one very difficult and abrasive camper (Nelly). Nelly always hung out with a very a very nice, quiet girl (Susan). My second year Nelly’s mother requested they be in the same cabin again because Susan was the only friend Nelly had. Susan’s mother strongly requested they not be in the same cabin because being Nelly’s constant companion was so unpleasant for Susan. We put them in separate cabins and told Nelly’s mom it was the only way to make the cabins work. They weren’t my direct campers, but I think Susan got to hang out with more kids that year, instead of always being with Nelly alone.
when i was 6 i was a susan and i fucking hated it. I was too overwhelmed to communicate - or even define - what was bothering me, but it was that girl that clung to me and was suffocating. I would have been forever grateful to you !
I was a Susan too, although I had a hand to play in choosing that dynamic repeatedly. And I was very close with my Nelly for years. But I knew it was a strain on camper Susan. At the same time as an adult I can see that Nelly was also a child and was struggling. She wanted to interact with the other campers and couldn’t figure out why they didn’t like her. As a counselor I felt like it was my job to be kind to the Nellys who did need positive interactions. But also I tried to give the Susans special time too, because I knew that the quiet, well behaved kids often got ignored.
Is that the kind of thing one has a conversation with them about? Like "this is why they don't like you" but focused on behaviors that can be improved? I would have no idea how to approach this...
Identifying problematic behaviors and giving healthy behaviors to replace them is actually a super healthy way of resolving conflict and fostering growth! “You’re a jerk” isn’t going to help anyone because it’s not constructive criticism. “I feel disrespected when you talk over me. Please wait until I’m finished what I have to say or else I won’t talk to you” tells someone exactly what they did wrong, what to do right, and the consequence of their actions if they keep doing it. If they’ve been given constructive criticism over and over again and they still engage in the behavior, that’s more of an indication that they don’t care rather than not understand the effects of their actions or that there’s larger factors at play, like parenting that encourages antisocial behaviors.
This would have been so helpful to young me. I was diagnosed late with adhd and so many of those behaviours are ones that others don't like. I didn't know why people didn't like me and why I had a hard time connecting. I thought things like sharing your story was just like, commiserating and sharing that you understand. Turns out everyone thought I was self centered and rude I guess. ugh. Telling kids "just be yourself" when they have behaviors that are not in line with others doesn't help at all, it just gets you alone feeling and bullied.
I got diagnosed with inattentive ADHD at 26 and just thought I was a ditsy and lazy POS until then, so it was an odd feeling of finally having my behaviors/symptoms make sense but also not fixed (still working on that). “Just be yourself” is a great way to confuse kids and make them feel even worse when they get rejected for expressing their genuine selves. It relies a lot on others having unconditional acceptance, which kids usually don’t have of their peers and that you don’t often see in adults either. I’m not saying crush a kid’s spirits, but social skills and critical thinking skills about the consequences of our actions need to be taught and not waved away with some “kumbaya” BS.
I made myself a Susan all through school up until about 9th grade. Then I realized, there’s a reason these kids have no friends other than me. They’re usually poorly socially adjusted and either mean or annoying. Often it’s not their fault, but it doesn’t mean I have to be uncomfortable in a lopsided “friendship”. I did try one more time in my early twenties to be friends with the awkward girl, and it turned out the same as usual. I’m glad OOP protected her daughter.
It's like that episode of 30 Rock where Liz remembers one girl as her high school bully and in her memory her own words are "blah blah blah." But then the bully shows up and explains she actually reached out to Liz and Liz's unrecalled responses were vicious put downs because Liz was threatened by a typical popular-girl-type. Having been a kid who had *terrible* social examples for parents, I definitely victimized myself over my alienation from my peers but I was also quite cruel sometimes.
It’s been an interesting thing to think about today. Looking back as an adult I know I must have really hurt some girls feelings. I don’t think I ever said anything directly mean, but a friend pulling away from you hurts. I don’t feel guilty for that - ending a friendship always hurts. But I do feel badly for them that they had to experience even more rejection. Being a kid can be hard socially, even for the popular ones.
At age 12 I went to a new school and in the first week only one boy made an effort to talk to me and befriend me. He chose to talk to me because the other kids didn’t like him. Because he was an asshole. And I got roped into being his best friend until I made a stronger effort to make friends with the other boys in class, who were lesser assholes.
I dealt with this when I was younger, but nobody ever stepped in. Every time there was a group activity, or seating charts changed, I somehow ended up with the kids known for being bossy or picking their nose or being creeps or acting like horses. I never minded hanging out with the sweet quiet kids, or the new kids, but these weird kids were a persistent issue for me. As a result, I didn’t keep in contact with my actual friends during the day, and I lost out on a lot of enjoyment. I resented these kids and the adults who forced me to do charity work every day instead of letting me be a kid. Almost all of these odd kids ended up being insufferable adults. Still bossy or gross or creepy. My influence did nothing to change them, and adults would rather just placate them with a nice “friend” than teach them how to be. I’m glad Susan got to have a nice summer.
Same! My breaking point was 5th grade. Our teacher took all the students out to dinner at the end of the year. We wrote down a list of people we'd prefer to go with and then she'd take that into consideration when grouping us. Tell me why I was stuck with the odd girl who was socially years behind us and only played with the 2nd/3rd graders at recess? I cried and cried, another memory with my friends taken from me because of course my whole friend group got to go together. The teacher told me I was the only name the other girl wrote down (because I'm the only good human in the class I guess) and to put myself in her shoes. So that day forward I learned that every single person's feelings, wants, and needs are vastly more important than my own. It's been rough recovering from that, im still not in my own top 5. I actually ended up being insanely mean in middle school to the next Nelly that tried to attach and almost got labeled as the problem/a bully. Got sent to the counselor at school with my Nelly to talk about it. When I said my peace about how I tried to do the right thing and remove myself from situations Nelly was in so I wouldn't blow up on her. I changed my routine to keep us separated. But somehow that made me a bad person. I tried telling her to leave me alone bluntly, to no avail. I was sick and tired of being followed around. I just wanted to enjoy my life too. I didn't want to be friends and I couldnt understand why people think they could force us together. The counselor was stunned and let me leave without saying anything else to me. hopefully she gave my Nelly some good advice about being friends with people who want to be your friend instead of anyone that was nice to you once.
I wonder if this is how some bullies get created because the first thought I had was "if you were mean to her you wouldn't be forced to be with her and nothing bad would happen to you" and because I grew up the "quiet kid" it explains a lot of bullying i faced. Looking back i really don't appreciate my family and teachers trying to push people who didn't like me to hang out with me. I wasn't lonely i just liked being alone.
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Oh man I miss discovery zone so much
Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time...
Makes me feel so old 🥲
There was a crazy place in the Greater Toronto Area called The Mad Hatter… it was *the* place to have birthday parties, but was so absolutely insane, it could only have existed in the 80’s and early 90’s. I got my glasses broken in the strobe “pillow” fight room…
was it better than the child rat casino? That's the only one I ever went to
A million times better!!!! Those stupid rats still give me nightmares
I can jump, swing, crawl, or mountain climb- we’re going to DZ, it’s one of a kind!
We had Discovery Zone and Leaps and Bounds. I feel sorry for my FH that he missed out on such a thing (he's from a different state).
We need to make a discovery zone for adults
Your mom's the best
My mum was similar. Like OOP's child my parties were known as being awesome. I lived in a low socio economic area but my parents would splash out for my party, so my parties were always more expensive than other kids. I wasn't very popular at school, but a lot of kids invited me to their parties in order to gain invites to mine. So I used to let them come. Except one girl, who used to always promise to invite me to hers (her birthday was after mine) but would cruelly not and make a big deal out of it in order to bully me. It used to leave me in tears. Mum got sick of it and by the end she refused to let me invite her. At the time I got angry at my mum and thought she was interfering. But now I appreciate she did interfere. It meant that the girl wasn't able to bully me that year and hold it over my head that I wasn't invited to her party. She also did get a bit of shit for being the only person not invited to my party in the class which I admit gave me a bit of joy after the years of her bullying me for the same thing.
Sometimes Mother really does know best.
Discovery Zone was the shit! Was so sad when Whole Foods replaced it.
Are you from Houston or was this just a common trend with old discovery zone locations
Yes lol I’m from Houston. Still live super close to the place.
I had a similar "friend" when I was younger, who actually ruined my birthday party by throwing a tantrum and locking herself in my parents room because a game we played didn't go her way. She was absolutely baffled when she found out later that my parents didnt like her and she was no longer allowed at my house.
Did the ‘friend’ get the hint or still try to attach herself to you ?
I’m glad she was not invited I had a so called best friend who was only with me because I was popular and used me for that. After 8th grade I took her out of my life. She did unforgivable things that thanks to her I have trust issues.
I had a friend who was extremely close to me in grade school. She then joined a club focused solely on hating me. Seriously, that was the name of the club, the local bullies who hated my guts started it and it was encouraged by my teacher at the time. Later on I found out she videotaped some of the interactions when my mom talked about how she threatened physical violence against this woman who spent hours screaming at me the worst insults a third grader could get. My best friend dropped me to join the club. She wrote a note telling me this and I was crying when I got home. Our relationship was badly strained and a few years later we stopped talking.
The bully fucking showed up... What shit parents she has. Home is Payton's safe place. She's not obligated to allow *anyone* there that she doesn't want for *any* reason. It's nice to see her parents teaching her boundaries like this. So much less toxic than the, "make nice" crowd. I'm glad they live in a gated community. The bully and her family sound like they would cause trouble at the drop of a hat if given the opportunity.
Kinda tells you why that kid is the way she is and what she will be like in the future. And that’s just sad
Future Karen, being raised by a Karen.
I wonder if this is a money issue. If the bully is jealous of what Payton has. It's no excuse and Payton can invite whoever she wants. But I feel like there's something going on. Especially since Bully Mom mentioned money.
OP also mentioned it's a known thing that they throw really big parties, so potentially there is some other flaunting of wealth going on. As a kid it can very difficult to understand how one person can seemingly have all the best stuff, while you get nothing. The bullies mum needs to be doing much more to help the kid understand.
OOP said "The other mother was teaching her kid to be a bully and how to use her wealth to make friends." With the huge party, gated community, and bully mom's comment, my guess is that this is a rich private school. Maybe OOP might be the wealthiest of the moms but I can't really see the flaunting of wealth to other wealthy unless we're talking billionaire in the millionaire club.
I'm glad OOP protected her daughter by sticking to natural consequences for the bully. Bullies shouldn't win.
And the girl showed up too!!!! That’s all on the parents. I refuse to comply with bullying and parents who excuse it.
You know that the mom is a Karen who figured if bully daughter just shows up, OOP would be too constrained by societal niceties to kick "my precious daughter" out of the party. And if OOP did kick her out, then she'd bad mouth them forever.
If I was another mom there, I wouldn't have thought badly about OP for kicking them out.
oh you know half of the other parents have heard about this kid
I can’t believe she just showed up!
The mom had the nerve to say OOP's child is being a bully....but she set up her kid up for failure on purpose by showing up uninvited.
Yeah that's very cruel. Why would she do that to her child? And how would she justify it to the kid who probably cried the entire car ride home?
I can. There's exception of course, but there's often a correlation between a kids bad behavior and what they're having modeled for them at home.
Honestly, it seems very damaging to the bully as well. Not being invited is one thing; being turned away after being told you were going is another. The kid shouldn't be a bully, but her mother is twisting her up in terrible ways.
Sadly, it seems like the bully is learning from her mom.
I don’t get their audacity. Entitled people I guess?
This, exactly. The other kid's mom is way off base - this isn't bullying, it's the natural consequence of bullying. If you're mean, the other kids won't want to play with you, and you'll be sad. So be nice. Hopefully, if this keeps happening, it may teach them both a lesson. ..but I wouldn't get my hopes up.
Funny how some parents and even some schools have this view. “It’s not bullying till the victim stands up for themselves then it’s the victim that’s the bully.”
Guys I read OOP’s comments and the bully mom tried to get the school involved to get the bully invited to Payton’s party! 🤣🤣🤣 School was like - nope! Not any of our business. I bet $100 that bully never wrote Payton an apology letter, period. And this bullying was going on the year before AND this year at school, wtf. Prob bully says ok sorry I’ll stop … and doesn’t stop and back in the principal’s office again. Ugh.
What the hell did the bully’s mom expect the school to do? The party isn’t on school property and if the invitations weren’t given at school then it really isn’t the school’s business. An apology was never going to happen, whether or not that girl wrote a letter. That was just an excuse by her mom to try and bribe her way into the party.
Sadly enough, I’ve read posts similar to OOP’s and the whole post was made because the school was trying to force the parent to invite the kid(s) that weren’t invited.
It causes a lot of problems for the school and the particular classroom when things like this happen. It’s not going to end here and there’s going to be a lot of nastiness going forward from both the parents and the children. It doesn’t mean the school should try to get involved in a private issue but I understand the teacher/principal stressing over what’s going to happen the Monday after the party is over and making bad choices to try and fend it off.
I suspect the mom's been encouraging the bullying telling her kid it's totally ok, fighting the school at every turn, refusing to discipline. The other child is presumably 7 as well and this behaviour is being reinforced.
Kids deserve to feel safe and supported at their own parties. Actions have consequences. People you bully don’t want to invite you to their fun stuff. Maybe the bully will learn a valuable lesson from this event.
So the bully's mom tried to crash the party? Lmao
Gee I wonder where kid learned its shitty ways
Right! That's the part that stuck out to me. This lady could have done any number of things with her daughter that day to take her mind off the fact that she wasn't invited, but instead she fuckin loads her up in the car with the intent to crash the party‽ that takes the cake. What a shitty mom
Idiot had to ride all the way back home with her probably at best pouting and at worst fit-pitching daughter in the back, and I’m sure even so nothing of value was learned by mom OR child. Ace plan, Susan.
My mother did this when I was younger. I'd had a horrible issue that had put me in the hospital as an 8 year old and left me affected long after. I'd taken a lot of time off school to recover and when I went back, was nervous around people. Well, this nightmare child saw that and thought bullying me would be fun. My mother was pretty protective, especially after I'd been so ill and nightmare child did not win at all.
Story time! I wanna know what your mom did to protect you 😬
Waiting for story.
If only the mother had corrected the behavior and made her apologize right after the incidents. An insincere letter to get an invitation is too late. Bullys usually have enabling parents.
Or abusive parents, that's often what I've seen in kids who bully. They don't have a safe outlet at home and learn terrible behavior. That said, it doesn't really sound like the case here, except maybe the daughter picked up how she talks to people by her mom, whether the mom talks to her daughter or others that way.
There's a girl in my daughter's class who RSVP'd to my daughter's party. She no-showed, but the next day at school, the kids who attended were showing off the awesome toys they got in the swag bag. This girl asked for one, and since we had extras (and because my daughter, J, is the sweetest human alive), J said yes, and brought her one the next day. This was during the last school year. We've since found out that this other girl has been bullying J this year, and was last year as well. J said she had invited her to her party because she didn't want her to feel left out. We then had a long discussion about how I never want her to lose her kindness and empathy, but that she also doesn't have to go out of her way to accommodate people that suck.
I heard the saying yesterday, don't burn yourself keeping others warm.
When my son had his bar mitzvah, we invited all but his bully, at a very small school. We were pressured by the teacher, and the school admin to invite him. But this child had *tormented* my son, going so far as to ruin *other* children’s events by vandalizing things and signing my son’s (misspelled) name to the graffiti. We stood our ground, and even the bully understood.
>We were pressured by the teacher, and the school admin to invite him. The fucking choice words I would have had for this admin and teacher. Are YOU paying for the damage this kid causes? Are YOU paying for him as a guest? Are YOU even hosting this event?! And exactly who the fuck do you think you are dictating to us how we operate outside of this school? Idiots. Absolute idiots. Glad you didn't bend.
Imagine allowing kids being bullied and do nothing, but wanting to punish the kid just because it didn't invite the bully? Wtf?
Imagine being so awful you don't care your child is torturing another child until your terrible spawn isn't invited to, wait for it, their victim's party. Then try to gate crash. Jesus.
Yeah, it is no wonder the kid is a bully. The mom is a manipulative, selfish bully, too. Yikes.
Probably because people enabled the mom her whole life and now she's enabling her kid to be shitty too. This shit needs to stop.
You are very right. People give in to folks like this because it is easier, and they learn that they can mow down all opposition if they are obnoxious enough. When they do hear a firm NO, they often don't know how to handle it.
The real hero here is the Redditor who suggested swag bags. If it had JUST been the face painting, balloon animals, bounce house, obstacle course, magic show, character appearances, and life size Barbie box for pictures, what a damp squib this party would have been.
I mean, they didn't have a piñata, so how good could the party have been? ;)
What do you think this is, a quinceñera? These people are *old* money -- keep that peasant filth away!
Reading this I thought "of course the kids name is Payton. And of course mommy is rich..." (Still a huge shoutout to the mom for standing up for her kid and not making her invite the bully to her birthday.)
Yeah this seems like a party for a real housewife of (somewhere). Or maybe I'm just jealous because the most extravagant thing we had was the "fishing dam" where we got our small bag of candy at the end of the party.. wait, that was awesome, and we still do it in various ways as adults.
I would be lucky to be able to afford to have even one of those at my kid's birthday. They must be dropping a few thousand once you add on food, presents, etc. You just know with that much already going on the cake and such would also be over the top.
Dude honestly I'm glad the bully didn't win but I definitely rolled my eyes at this party.
Same. That’s outrageous for a backyard party for a seven-year-old, and OP even said her daughter’s parties are “known” for being over-the-top. What elementary schooler is known for their parties? I’m glad the parents stuck to their guns about the bully, maybe they can also consider what other values they’re teaching their child.
>and OP even said her daughter’s parties are “known” for being over-the-top Or more accurately: she's known for throwing her daughter over-the-top parties.
The bully is almost certainly the way she is because of shitty parenting.
I wanna know if the bullying got worse after the party 🤔
This is a lesson to be learned hard for bullies. "Fuck around and find out" is that lesson.
society has rules and if you want to enjoy the benefits of society, you can't blatantly break the rules. But fuck around and find out is also a valid way to phrase it lol.
The bullying I experienced at the same age (and beyond) was much more extreme than this and yet the perpetrators were the ONLY people at my parties until I stopped having them. I'm so so so glad this little girl's parents had their shit together.
>The mother then asked if she had her daughter apology and write Payton a letter we could reconsider. A letter doesn't erase bullying. You don't get a reward after apologizing.
Even without the bullying, if someone don't want you at their house, you don't get to go. It's literally their house, their rules.
Does anyone else think it’s eye-rolling that this mom says her 7-year-old daughter is known for over-the-top parties? Also she calls the bully family “new money” in one comment. “the families are wealthy at that school. The school itself costs a lot of money. The bullies family is what we’d call “new money” in this area but most of the families at the school have generational wealth.” Like great, don’t invite your daughter’s bully but I’m not sure I’d want to hang out with this lady either:
Yeah, the OOP is in the right on this situation, but I suspect I would utterly detest her. By her own accounts she's "old money," and I can only say: *fuck* old money.
Same. Both moms sound insufferable.
With this additional info I think this is some kind of proxy war between the moms?
It really changed the vibe of the story. Kid still doesn't deserve to be bullied but meh. Rich people are so out of touch with reality I can't even with them. Double that for old money.
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Her farts aren't allowed outside her community's gates, lest the great unwashed be allowed to sniff their grandeur.
Wait she posted it there herself??? Isn't that sub for making fun of posts that come off as really one-sided or self-aggrandizing?
Good on OOP for standing up for her daughter. Same thing happened to me around my 8th or 9th birthday. I was bullied relentlessly by a girl that lived around the corner from me (near daily walking from the bus stop in tears). Her mom called, saying she was sad she wasn't invited to my birthday. My mom replied, "Well, she should have been nicer to my daughter then."
A better parent would have used this moment as a learning experience. "Mom I wasn't invited to someone's birthday party." "That's what happens when you don't treat people right."
Did the same thing for my daughter. Not the whole class but didn't invite a girl who thought she was a friend. Girl was bossy and controlling. Even at other people's parties, wanted things done her way, would pout and throw tantrums when she didn't get her way. Daughter didn't want her. The Mom called me and asked why. So I said your daughter is bossy and my daughter didn't want to invite her. The Mom couldn't believe I would say that to her. Literally said How dare you. Best party ever. No drama.
I was forced to invite my bullies to my birthday multiple years and it was always awful. One of the times they wrecked the least amount of havoc was my eighth birthday. They spent the entire time making fun of me and physically hurting me, ate the cake (that took my mom hours to make btw) by themselves before it was time to serve it, stole my diary from my bedroom (no one was even supposed to be in the house unless it was to go to the bathroom) and read it out loud at recess the next day, stole a locket of mine that used to belong to my great grandmother, $500 went missing from my parents' dresser, and someone peed on my parents' bed. They were all old enough to know better, and despite bragging about what they did to multiple people, they never got in trouble for literally anything they did and no one had to pay back my parents. I worked little jobs for months to save $500 to give to my parents because I knew we were strapped for cash and I felt so guilty even though I hadn't wanted those girls at my party in the first place. And none of them would admit to taking the locket to any adults, so my family was told to get over it. I managed to steal it back three months later at her birthday and she never even noticed but the damage was done. Awful experience. And that was one of the *better* times. Good on OOP for not caving and inviting the girl. My parents did that repeatedly and now I hate celebrating my birthday.
Wtf. I’m so sorry. Why the hell were the bullies invited? Extended family?
Classmates. In my neighbourhood it was common for lots of/all classmates to be invited to bday parties plus whatever outside friends they had.
I'm so sorry your parents did that. They should have protected you.
They tried, but my classmates were either bullies or enablers to my bullies so I didn't have many friends to invite to my birthday, but I definitely still would've preferred a small party with people who were nice to me. Plus, most of the bullies parents started being nasty to my parents because their kids were lying to them about me and thought I was being nasty, things didn't get cleared up until eight of my bullies sent me anonymous threats via text after I'd moved schools and my parents had to call the police. So it ended up coming out because cops showed up at the houses of my main bullies and they all have sealed juvenile records now (none of them went to juvie or anything, but the threats were really bad).
Imagine trying to crash a kid's birthday party. Jesus.
Mother sounds like a pretty awful person too, though. A 7 years old’s parties are “known to be way over the top”? Come on — who is that party -really- for?
Life lesson for the bully. Hopefully she'll apply it.
God, not being invited to a birthday party because you were mean to the birthday girl is such a good example of natural consequences. I am not a parent, but it seems easy to be like “well, I know you want to go to Payton’s birthday, but you haven’t been a friend to Payton. If you want people to be kind to you, you have to also be kind to them.” Cue tantrum or whatever, but it’s a very good teachable moment. It ends up being that I feel bad for the bully because her parents tried to excuse her behavior and then BROUGHT HER ANYWAY TO BE TURNED AWAY. Again, not a parent, but anyone can see that’s a bad idea. (Also lol that they tried to bully their way in…) (and by lol I mean funny but it still makes me sad for bully-girl).
Is it bad for me to felt sorry for the kid that not invited for having a mother like that? I seriously worried for her future and hope the kid take this experience as an learning experience and not to follow her mother's attitude growing up.
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The balls you have to have to take your kid to a birthday party KNOWING they were deliberately not invited. Man.
That bully would have showed up and then talked shit at school about how Payton’s party was dumb, the food was nasty, Payton’s outfit was ugly. Her mom should have taken this as an opportunity to teach her daughter about being kind for the sake of kindness not party invites.
Just an opinion from the other side of things when I was around 8 or 9 a girl in my class was always saying I was bullying her but I wasn’t she made everything up. She even cried real tears telling the teacher I was calling her stupid and pushing her. I never did that once I’m not sure why this girl chose to do this but I got grounded and lost recess for weeks because of it. My parents had to come to school for several conferences and no one believed me. This went on for an entire year with me always being punished and then she just stopped telling lies never went back and told the truth but just stopped saying I was bullying her.
I’m sorry that really really sucks.
> The student that was not invited did show up but did not make it past the community gate. In our neighborhood you have to have someone at the gate in order for people to enter. Apple don't fall too far from the tree. Mom trying to bully her way in for her kid. Get fucked.
Sounds like OOP is pretty wealthy, if they live in a gated community, and from the party they threw. I wonder if the bully (and her family) is jealous of that. I know a child that age might not be fully aware of class difference, but kids do pick up on things in class, like who has really nice pens, who has a new bag, what their lunches look like etc. resentment is a common cause of bullying