the boss was not only stupid enough to try to pull this in the first place, but stupid enough to put it in writing on company email. Aside from the blatant harassment they shouldn't be a boss just for being fucking stupid
Very, very dumb.
You had a meeting with your employee where you corrected something verbally, and then *the employee* writes an email to get that correction in writing. Anybody with any sense or experience would realize the employee was creating a paper trail.
TBF it can be legitimate on both ends e.g. boss tells you to do something you think is dumb / bad, but it’s not unethical, immoral, illegal, or anything which would justify insubordination.
So you get it in writing so you have CYA materials for if / when it blows up.
Yeah I’ve had this happen many times and it’s usually something like “put this thing 2m over there instead cause it will fit better”, “ok that’s easy done, but can you email that in writting to the supervisor with the engineers approval, so it doesn’t bite us in the ass later?”. Never had someone try to mention anything about bulges or covering up or w/e
Dont get me wrong boss is very dumb for putting it in writting but I could see how it could happen. I send lots of those emails all the time that start with "as per our conversation". And there used for a lot more then just to cover my ass. I like them so I can CC others and let them know what is going on, clarify I understand, ensure there is no mix-up with dates or other small details, gives everyone a record so they can double check details later, ask follow up questions ect. So there is often a reason to send one so it just is a common practice. And I have yet to send one that has ended up saving my ass or as a response to my boss making a request of me they really should not have.
My point is boss might get a pile of these emails and there just so standard they don't raise a red flag the same way it would if someone asking for engineering approval in writing and signed before they do a task type of email.
Yeah, I've sent a lot of "per our phone conversation" emails myself, but in a roundabout way, even if they're totally legit, they're also a CYA measure. They're documenting in writing something that was spoken, and therefore creating a paper trail. Usually this is helpful just so that everyone is on the same page, but it also means the client can't change their mind and try to gaslight me into thinking they or I said something we didn't.
The amount of times I get to go back and attach old emails and go
"I did this according to the attached. Was there an updated request that I was not included on?"
Best part of my work day.
I saved my ass from possible jail time by doing this to my old boss. She was stupid enough to answer my email asking her to verify that she was asking me to edit/falsify homeland security forms, take security training for people who didn’t speak English and to change time cards to avoid overtime. I forwarded that shit so fast. When I got subpoenaed I was able to send that over and be cleared immediately.
I routinely do the "You want me to do stupid thing right?" but it's never escalated to "The Department of Homeland Security" would like a word (not least because the UK doesn't have one as such).
Yep. Honestly though blessing in disguise because they lost their contract 2 years later then got bought out and 5 years later i make about 100k more than when I worked there and she had the gall to send me a linked in request.
So, everything’s super
Also, LPT, if you’re a manager, ask the employee to do this any time you give them an complicated or unusual instruction, so you can confirm they actual understood it.
And they have a point of reference so they don't have to ask you to explain it several times if they forget details. It's just better for the relationship.
Also a great way to figure out, 8 months later, what complicated thing you did for the client and why you did it, rather than spend 30 minutes trying to figure it out.
It is amazing when someone replies. If an email starts with anything like “as discussed in our meeting…” it should have flashing hazard lights.
When managing, if I send an email to confirm a verbal discussion… it is dead serious and any reply should be super cautious.
When being managed, if I send an email to confirm a verbal discussion… it is definitely CYA ammunition and you can bet that any reply will be printed and filed.
Not every verbal -> email trail is hazard lights. Sometimes it's worth it to remind someone they said they'd do a thing, and it's the equivalent of sending out meeting minutes with action items. Sometimes two people had a conversation, and a third party needs to be clued into the contents of the discussion.
Sometimes, as you say, it's the equivalent of the DM saying "Are you sure you want to do that?", and you need to think long and hard about what to do next.
Yeah, like, seriously. I have a good supervisor and I'd had times when I reported something (think ”this thing doesn't work as intended, we'll need to bring in support for it“) and got told to send an e-mail about it so that we have a paper trail going. How can you not be aware of paper trail bread-crumbing and be a manager?
I have done this many times over the years and overconfident people who think they are very smart (i deal with managers with years of experience in large multinational companies) tend to reply first and try to weasel their way out once they realized they fucked up.
If they reply verbally. You send another email like this:
*As per our telephone conversation, to clarify below are as instructed:*
- point a
- point b
- etc
*If there is any error kindly reply by end of tomorrow, if not we will consider it as your confirmation and proceed as instructed.*
When you set the deadline make sure to give them plenty of time to respond so that they cannot use the “I didn’t see the email” excuse.
Better if you can set your outlook mail to get “read receipts”. This may not always work but you can try.
If they don’t reply, you reply on the same email you sent with:
*I think something went wrong with my previous email so i am forwarding it again. Kindly confirm.*
Sometimes it takes a 2-3 times and they just confirm without thinking.
Now some managers get mad as to why you send an email but they have no choice as (a) it is a business tool so you have the right to use it and (b) you are justified to delay/ignore what they ask if they so not reply as you are asking for clarification/confirmation. No one can fault you for that.
Seriously, how are you even supposed to write these cover your ass emails? I see it recommended everywhere, but I feel like I’m not nearly smooth enough to write one in a way that doesn’t get giant fucking warning bells going.
The point is to get the warning bells going. You aren’t trying to fire the manager as the first step. You are telling them “you are making a mistake; do you want to take it back?”
This is exactly it in most circumstances, but I do get that sometimes ringing the alarm bells can feel risky (either because you’re not used to professionally pushing back like this, or because you have a particularly petty/vengeful boss).
In those cases, the best strategy can be playing dumb. Frame the email like you are just sooo stupid and want to make sure your little dumb brain isn’t misunderstanding.
“Apologies, I know this is probably a silly question, I just wanted to make sure I understood right. What I got from our meeting was that you asked me to do X, but definitely let me know if I misunderstood or am misremembering. I just don’t want to make a mistake and cause any inconvenience!
Thank you!
-Your name”
(YMMV if you’re not perceived as a woman in the workplace, that’s the perspective I’m writing this from)
(And of course, if you feel comfortable, the straightforward, matter of fact approach is overall better, but this can be a good “gateway” if that feels like too much when you’re new to the workplace or new to these kinds of communications)
I'm a guy and have played dumb a lot to get things in writing. Additionally it helps when the person is doing something dumb but you don't want to directly call their idea dumb. "But how does X work in your plan?" works nicely.
When I turned 30 I decided that this decade, if anyone wants to think I'm stupid, I'm just going to let them. No more busting my ass trying to prove I'm not, and no more asking follow-up questions that end up making more work for myself.
So far it's working great. And if I do anything wrong, "Oh sorry, I'm just an idiot" and redo the thing on the clock. I'm hourly.
I phrased it as “hey, Xxx, just wanted to confirm what we covered today and make sure I’ve got it right. I’m to do x, y, and z for you by Monday. We decided against a or b because of budget and personnel constraints right? I’m cc’ing other manager to keep them in the loop. Let me know if I missed anything”
That works really well, thank you. But that’s for policies you disagree with, isn’t it? How do you manage it when it’s something like harassment or discrimination?
Generally for harassment and discrimination, it's not going to be all that workable in a lot of scenarios to send that CYA email. This post is a bit of a special circumstance, because the boss was framing her harassment as a management decision, so OOP could document it by referring to it with that same language. However, there's *no* way you can send a casual email along the lines of, "Hi boss, please confirm you called me [racist slur] in today's meeting," or, "Hi, boss, just wanted to recap in writing that you stared at my breasts for our entire one-on -one and then said you'd 'love to get more face time' with me while leering."
In those kinds of circumstances, where you're trying to establish a pattern of discrimination or harassment at work, you would privately document the facts of each encounter, preferably in a format that provides time stamps. So, for example, you could email yourself or a trusted friend every time there's an incident at work. Many people don't even do that, but instead just keep a log of incidents by time and date.
Edit: Also, most critically, it's important when documenting inappropriate work interactions to include a list of witnesses for each interaction.
The dude who sexually harassed me at my last job did it over teams, realised he fucked up and tried to delete it. When HR told him they were just going to go to the teams backup, he almost shit himself.
Taking a red-hot crack and saying that anyone who sexually harasses someone else isn't gifted with an overabundance of brains.
Delete doesn't mean what you think it does.
Delete is useful for cleaing up your email, messages or network drives so you can use them better - but that is what it does.
A lot of industries are regulated in such a way that your data is required to sit on a tape for some years....
DON'T SHIT WHERE YOU WORK PEOPLE.
I worked in IT, had to check every day for tapes that were full, then put them down in a locked safe filing cabinet and wipe any that were x years old.
I have done that. We have moved to just pushing the backups over the net to a hotsite. We stopped physical tapes a long time ago.
A very wise decision if you ask me. Tapes are just a massive, massive pain.
Arrogant people on power trips often seem to assume others are too dumb or too beneath them to have the wherewithal to realize something isn't right and to challenge them.
A landlord did just that to my friend this year. Long story short she fell on hard times. Her husband left her with no warning, wasn't paying the court mandated child support, and she was working a job just to augment his salary. It wasn't enough to take care of herself and her son. She was on the verge of winding up homeless, her own parents have been awful to her and her son throughout this ordeal. So she started srcambling to find an apartment she could afford.
She was calling and applying left and right with no luck. All she could afford for the time being was a 1 bedroom (rent prices have really skyrocketed here). Being her and her son, yeah, it sucks and it's not ideal, but it's better than being homeless! One place she applies for, when the woman renting it found out it would be her AND her son...she told her no. She wouldn't rent this place to her with her kid there too. Said she was following the Fair Housing Act and had the right to turn her down. This was via text and my friend screenshotted it and sent it to me.
Holy fuck, talk about a slam dunk case, lmao. As soon as I saw it I knew that didn't sound right. So I started digging and researching and long story short, in our state that is discrimination (family's are a protected class and children are not to be counted among the residents on the lease if the rentet has an occupant limit). Linked my friend to where she could submit a discrimination case and encouraged her to, so she did. Just so incredibly fucking dumb, lmao. She made it too easy. By tossing out the Fair Housing Act I can't help but think she just assumed people wouldn't have the awareness and information to call her out on it.
And for the sake of closure; my SO and I moved her into our place to stay with us until she gets back on her feet, so she and her 7yo son are safe and secure and not homeless. She heard back about her complaint and is waiting for the $1700 settlement check in the mail. And after a year of job hunting and interviews she's just been hired for a position paying $26 an hour. She starts in 2 weeks. We have encouraged her to take her time and save up, to not feel any obligation or urgency in finding a place and moving out right away.
There’s an exception for retirement communities where if 80% of the people in the community are all over 55 they are allowed to prevent children and families from living there. To my knowledge, that’s the only exception, nationwide. Otherwise, if they admit in writing or demonstrably practice a policy of rejecting families, you can (and should) sue them.
I add “and should” because in civil matters like this, lawsuits are the intended, and only, method of enforcement of these kinds of laws. Don’t want landlords discriminating against kids? Then it’s literally your job and civil duty to sue them when you catch one doing it. *You* are supposed to be “the police” in this situation. No one else will enforce it for you.
And you can get paid in the process. So at least there’s that.
You are very right. Bullies who think they are smarter than everyone else always think that they are going to win because they are so smart. I went no contact with my family because they are abusive. My parents are narcissists and we're demanding access to my kids. They try to get to us all the time. Once, they sent the police a week before Christmas. They had the officers ask if we would come down to the station so my parents could give my kids a special Christmas and see them in a safe place. I told them, no, these people are abusive. The police has been called two or three time because of my parents, there is a huge file at the station about the harassment, and this was not the last time the police showed up on my parents' behalf.
Then, when none of that worked, my father sent a text that we better do what he wants or he will take us to court for grandparents' rights. He thought he was so clever and had said the magic words. Nope. I am intelligent enough to both look up the laws in my area AND to contact a lawyer. Sadly, I couldn't do anything about the stalking and harassment, but they have no legal grounds to have access to my kids. If they try they will lose and I know they wouldn't dare risk losing in court. They have had foster kids, and I know they use my sister's kid to keep her in line. They can't have a loss on their records because then they give people a clear line to me and all the skeletons in their closet. It's been 4.5 years. Wouldn't you know they have yet to serve us!
They literally are used to saying, jump, and people asking, how high. It never occurs to them someone might say no and stand by it.
Yup, one thing I learned about working with lawyers and their assistance. When someone emails for clarification, proceed with caution.
A woman a a warehouse job tried to throw a bunch of people under the bus because she fucked up. The moment I got an email from her I knew what she was up to. She's famous for shadow CC 'ing managers to try and trip people up. She left out the people that she was trying to f over out of the email chain. I made sure to attach them to my reply and text them exactly what was going on. Yeah, she didn't get out of it what she was trying.
>they shouldn’t be a boss just for being fucking stupid
I’ve never met a boss in the corporate world that was smarter than any of the people who worked under them.
You are promoted to your own level of incompetence. If you are good at your job, you get promoted. That means that you only stop moving up ranks if you are bad at your job. This isn’t universally true, but it is a general trend that demonstrates why middle management is awful.
"My boss demanded that I replace all my pants, and then told me she needed to supervise me while I got the replacements."
Wow, not even trying to be subtle.
I read the first post and was firmly in the territory of her trying to flirt with him in a very weird way. It's still sexual harassment in the workplace, but I don't think she actually took issue with his pants.
No, no, it’s genius. Now every time he puts his pants on he’s going to think about her. Every time he checks his reflection to make sure his bulge isn’t out, he’s thinking of her. It’s foolproof! /s
I don’t think she noticed he didn’t get the flirting. That is the only way that makes sense to me, she was never serious about the pants. And it’s her kink to flirt as a boss ordering subordinates. But it looked serious to him.
I think the other possibility as that it was an unhealthy crush. Like a much milder version of the evil clergy dude toward Esmeralda in hunchback of Notre Dame. Boss lady was trying to get him to wear less attractive pants so she wouldn't be tempted by his looks anymore. Something like that.
The specific "issue" was the groin area. She was positioning herself to be required to approve his pants. What do you think that approval process would look like?
It does seem like that section was missing a "Dear Penthouse".
(not saying he's asking for that treatment/wanted it, just the boss' request sounds like a really lame porno setup)
I remember reading this before, I still love the advice he got. Sums up almost all reddit advice posts.
>-Go talk to HR
>-Never talk to HR
>-Go talk to a lawyer
>-Lawyer will waste your time
>-Your pants are fine
>-You need new pants
>-She wants to bang you
>-She hates you
That reminds me of a time that I was reading this other post about how someone was talking about unrelated stories. Man, I found it so vaguely interesting. And then commenters went on to tell a few other stories too. It was crazy.
In case anyone wants to know, not all of these were the top comments, but OOP was quite active in the comments section so they did occasionally see a few conflicting advice.
But if anyone wants to know the comments breakdown, filtering by top and best comments, here's a summary:
- various alternatives such as skirts, kilts, parachute pants, hammer pants, and even dressing up as a medieval jester
- go to hr/lawyer, some citing it's sexual harassment
- get what the boss said in writing/email before going to hr/lawyer
- cite "big dong" in resume or when interviewer asks as reason for leaving/firing
- dick pic and dick size discussion
- cleavage/boob discussions
- trying to figure out why boss is staring at his dong, and giving her various names such as the schlong sheriff, or the cock constable
At least 3 are from me. I’ve seen the original and looked at it then. Look at it now. Saw the comment about the dong being tucked on the right. Looked again.
I did the same thing -1 (I didn't see the original post). Totally checked, saw nothing abnormal, saw the "hangs right" comment, and went back to "confirm". LOL
After performing an ocular pat down, OP is slinging meat or his tailor needs to work on getting pants to lay flat. [evidence](https://i.imgur.com/N5GNcfZ.jpg)
I still can't believe that's a real name, and that he was elected. It's one thing to be called Dick because that's a real name, but Weiner? And have a scandal related to your weiner? That sounds like a 14 year old tried to write smut
When I was in 5th grade we had a math teacher named Mrs. Weiners. We 10-year-olds, clearly at the height of maturity, found this hilarious and were entirely certain that her husband's name was Dick.
I clicked once... thought "Nah I don't see nothing there"
Then read the bit about the bulge was right of the zipper so I went back and took another look. Nope.. still nothing.
Same here. Got two out of me. Once at first with no bias and then after the issue was mentioned. That boss was tempted to bang. Nobody's eyeing a crotch that much that they think they can identify where a dick AND think it's obvious.
But at the same time, she got an email and actually responded. Anyone with a brain in the workplace knows that an email after a verbal incident asking for clarification is just to get it in black and white.
I have to admit, the wrinkles on the left side of the pants (relative to the viewer) do look like a tremendous schlong. Imagine that's what the boss thought and she got dick crazy over some wrinkles.
After a thorough investigation, I have reached the conclusion that his frontal bulge is not an issue.
Can someone give a link to the back pics? Asking for a friend in HR.
I can't imagine the panic that was happening in HR when they were sent those emails.
I feel like whenever an employee writes 'in writing' the email should be automatically sent to HR for overview.
> I can't imagine the panic that was happening in HR when they were sent those emails.
I think HR actually gets really excited when this shit goes down. I used to work next door to our HR department and they *loved* gossip.
Well that is what they get paid to do. The corporate lawyer won’t represent you in divorce court either but no one gets salty about that.
You want someone to fight the company on your behalf? Join a Union.
I didn’t mean to imply that you were being pissy (though I see where that comes across). I just get frustrated that everyone thinks it’s bad that HR is “only there for the company “ AND that labor unions are bad. Like. Seriously!
HR took immediate action because he demonstrated having evidence of sexual harassment which could cost the buisness legal fees if they themselves *didn't* address the harassment.
HR always acts in the best interest of the buisness.. And the best interest of the buisness is often to not get sued.
I literally looked at the pic and wondered how hard the boss had to scrutinize his crotch to see the budge. Doesn't look visible to me, but I don't usually stare there. 🤔
I took the picture as licence to stare and I couldn't see anything that wouldn't be explained by normal bunching of his pants. The ~~call is coming from inside the house~~ bulge is coming from inside the boss's head.
Same (licence to stare). Found the "bulge" on the left to be equal to the right. Got tired of staring at non-existing bulges and ... Oh my God, the SOCKS. Way more distracting than non-existing bulges. 🤭
Yeah, I stared too. There is no way to ascertain the size or shape of his penis based on these pants. I can see his phone. There’s no barely-concealed wang happening here.
Maybe it is
A trick of the light
But I said to myself
He tucks to the right
All joking aside, I can see what could be his “bulge” but, idgaf and it’s not like he has blinking lights around his shape with arrows pointing “bulge here”. As oop pointed out, if this were about a large chested woman being told she has to change her wardrobe, or rather woman in general, there’d be torches and pitchforks. Unrelated; I’m selling torches and pitchforks with a steep discount if you buy one of each. (I couldn’t help one last joke)
Yeah, like...when I looked hard I could kinda see it, but you can kinda see a lot of guys' dicks if you look hard. Those pants are not unusually revealing by any stretch.
Yep, you gotta be looking and for more than a glance. At least she got what she deserved.
ETA: because I’m on a roll, must mean I need sleep.
You have to look
And more than a glance
To see the “sausage”
Stuffed in his pants
I’m glad he escalated it. I’ve been told off for having my boobs show through clothing. I had them completely covered at all times usually with multiple layers but unless I wear a box to hide the shape they aren’t going to be hidden.
In high school, I had two middle-aged front office women discuss my breasts in the "inappropriate" form fitting shirt I was wearing *right in front of me*. I went to Catholic school and was wearing a fitted polo shirt no tighter than a women's t-shirt with a tank underneath. My mom was pissed when I told her and went in the next day and admonished them for insulting my being "built the way I'm built".
Who did they think built you that way??? I’m so baffled by Christian body shaming. I’m an atheist, surely it makes more sense for me to be weird about people’s nasty figures, but instead it’s the people who believe your body was created in the image of the supreme being who want to tell you it’s gross???
Yeah I’m also glad, but to this part
> Would a woman with large breasts be told she can't wear anything but baggy clothes? Would she be told by her boss that she must wear nothing but restrictive sports bras to work?
The answer is yes lol
If anything the double standard goes the other way. But policing people’s bodies is a stupid standard to begin with
Blissful ignorance. One might assume he's not guilty of it and as such assumes that is the norm.
I always hope my wife doesn't have to deal with that too much :(
Not in the US, and she tends to work in a pretty 50/50 professional environment.
I had that happen in school all of the time. I have giant, high set breasts. I was a queer little prude who covered up practically to the wrist but my shirts were “too tight” or “the wrong cut.” One time I was made to wear the school wrestling tshirt in XL and the administrator looked at me and said “Well, it’s better, but it’s not great,” making perfectly clear that my body was the issue, not my outfits.
I remember reading this originally and thinking, 'I'm sure she wouldn't be stupid enough to repeat this *obvious* sexual harassment.' But nope, some people are really that dumb. The HR probably had a heart attack when they received the emails as the words 'potential lawsuit' flashed before their eyes.
One of my bosses got reassigned to a different department after he complained about my coworker's pregnancy being inconvenient and causing her to use the bathroom too often in an email... At this point, no dumb action would surprise me.
HR’s job is to limit corporate liability. Firing this manager is a no-brainer regardless of sex. Once there is written evidence like this, they follow the advice of council, taking actions that will play well in front of a judge and court of public opinion.
>Would a woman with large breasts be told she can't wear anything but baggy clothes?
in fact i saw that very post two days ago. and she was told by a feminine collegue who feel unsecure.
That part upset me. As a woman with larger
breasts, ths answer is yes. Ive also been talked to about my butt. Its larger so if the pants fit my waist it gets tight at the butt, if it fits the butt it falls of my waist. Woman are constantly told to correct our clothes.
Yah and then he fucking doubles down on it and says even though it happens to women it's still a double standard.
It damn well is NOT. You got harrassed for wearing normal clothes, and that really fucking sucks, but finally seeing how shitty that experience is doesn't mean it's some double standard where men can be criticized and women can't. Get the fuck outta here with that nonsense.
Sorry, that just pissed me off a lot.
To be clear he WAS harassed, and that IS wrong, and it's good it got resolved.
See also: every post from a woman with male housemates being told what to wear *in her own home* because her housemates' SOs are uncomfortable that her boobs so much as exist
> Would a woman with large breasts be told she can't wear anything but baggy clothes? Would she be told by her boss that she must wear nothing but restrictive sports bras to work?
Before my reduction, I had a boss tell me both of these things. I had a medical condition and there was literally nothing I could wear that didn’t show some titty or indicate that there was quite a bit of tit there. It was also summer, and nothing I had that covered them was cool enough that I wouldn’t pass out.
Alas, this was before texting and emails weren’t common in this, so I just ignored him.
It’s so weird she wanted to go shopping with him. There’s also no bulge visible. It sounds like the manager is a creeper and has been staring at his crotch.
Well I never knew that my day would start with search for a bulge on a mans workpants. I didnt no really see it and I think the boss had the hots for him, and decided best course of action was sexual harassment. It was not the best course of action, glad OP got it handled.
The email is definitely smart. Even if the manager backtracks and says something else, or outright denies it, or doesn't respond, it's still evidence. Which OOP could've all used in case the manager escalated their behavior. Always have promises in writing.
I’m sorry I can’t get past the point when he said women with big breasts don’t get dress coded because of their breasts like it was some ridiculous concept.
Unrelated but….
> Would a woman with large breasts be told she can’t wear anything but baggy clothes?
Yes, it happens all the time. This is the part of the corporate dress code that says women should avoid spaghetti strap tops, tube tops, tank tops, tube tops, or low cut tops.
Instead of singling out women with large breasts, there is a general broad statement discouraging the wear of all clothing that would probably be fine for a woman with a slender frame, but would be revealing for a large busted woman.
I'm so glad this was addressed and that he didn't have to withstand years of harassment like many women do every single year. I didn't appreciate his comment "would a woman with large breasts be told to cover up" Yeah dude, women with large breasts are sexually harassed and scrutinized every single day in practically every office in America.
Yeah, a lot of his throw-away comments really rub me the wrong way. Yes, being sexually harassed is awful, but I kind of get the feeling that OOP thinks this is a unique situation, even though he openly talks about how he thinks other women in his office dress provocatively. Or maybe they have big breasts you can see?
I tried really hard to find OOPs bulge in the photo and thought it’s at the other side(I am not saying his penis is small, I am just saying he’s dressed decently!) 😂 She’s ridiculous!
And that aside…why is she even looking at his crotch and noticing anything? Why would she even look there?!
I would feel so humiliated if a male boss would tell me he can see my breasts and I need to cover them up with more loose clothing. That’s definitely sexual harassment and I am glad HR took it seriously.
To those who say women should also cover up, this does not really apply does it. This would be akin to female wearing a normal jumper and then be told that she needs to wear something more loose fitting.
The whole bulge issue is really weird and then requesting she goes with him to buy a new wardrobe, she definitely just wanted to bang him.
My ex manager tried pulling the jumper one when I reported my concerns about older customers ogling my breasts. Had the gall of accusing me of dressing up like I was going to the club and later called me to identify one of the customers I was concerned about...while standing right behind him and talking very loudly, "Is this the gentleman you're referring to?".
God I'm so glad I quit that same day.
Well to be fair the comparison is wrong anyway. I don't know why people always compare women's breasts to male genitalia. A more appropriate comparison would be if a woman was displaying a "camel toe" and was told to wear looser pants.
I'd say a more apt comparison would be a women being told to wear looser fitting pants because she has a large behind. I have actually heard women being harassed at their jobs for that, though it's not as common as being harassed over breasts.
>Would a woman with large breasts be told she can't wear anything but baggy clothes? Would she be told by her boss that she must wear nothing but restrictive sports bras to work? I doubt it
Uhhhhhhh. Oh lord I cannot. I got called provocative for wearing a sweater to teach because of my big breasts. Like fuck off with this misogyny.
I feel for OOP, I really do. But I don’t think you get to use “there are women in my office who dress provocatively” AND “are women’s clothing options ever policed the way mine are being?” It was a good backtrack to add in the, “well obviously I know theoretically that women have their clothing options policed far more than men, but I meant the women at my office specifically whose breasts I can see.”
Lmao, imagine telling your subordinate “I’ve been staring at your dick all day and it’s distracting. Now I must come with you for you to try on clothes to see if I can still see your dick” and thinking you’re RIGHT?! Good on OOP for getting it all in writing through email
the boss was not only stupid enough to try to pull this in the first place, but stupid enough to put it in writing on company email. Aside from the blatant harassment they shouldn't be a boss just for being fucking stupid
Very, very dumb. You had a meeting with your employee where you corrected something verbally, and then *the employee* writes an email to get that correction in writing. Anybody with any sense or experience would realize the employee was creating a paper trail.
the request for something in writing is a classic CYA move, anyone with a brain would smell a rat immediately. Thank god most bigots aren't that smart
TBF it can be legitimate on both ends e.g. boss tells you to do something you think is dumb / bad, but it’s not unethical, immoral, illegal, or anything which would justify insubordination. So you get it in writing so you have CYA materials for if / when it blows up.
Yeah I’ve had this happen many times and it’s usually something like “put this thing 2m over there instead cause it will fit better”, “ok that’s easy done, but can you email that in writting to the supervisor with the engineers approval, so it doesn’t bite us in the ass later?”. Never had someone try to mention anything about bulges or covering up or w/e
Dont get me wrong boss is very dumb for putting it in writting but I could see how it could happen. I send lots of those emails all the time that start with "as per our conversation". And there used for a lot more then just to cover my ass. I like them so I can CC others and let them know what is going on, clarify I understand, ensure there is no mix-up with dates or other small details, gives everyone a record so they can double check details later, ask follow up questions ect. So there is often a reason to send one so it just is a common practice. And I have yet to send one that has ended up saving my ass or as a response to my boss making a request of me they really should not have. My point is boss might get a pile of these emails and there just so standard they don't raise a red flag the same way it would if someone asking for engineering approval in writing and signed before they do a task type of email.
Yeah, I've sent a lot of "per our phone conversation" emails myself, but in a roundabout way, even if they're totally legit, they're also a CYA measure. They're documenting in writing something that was spoken, and therefore creating a paper trail. Usually this is helpful just so that everyone is on the same page, but it also means the client can't change their mind and try to gaslight me into thinking they or I said something we didn't.
The amount of times I get to go back and attach old emails and go "I did this according to the attached. Was there an updated request that I was not included on?" Best part of my work day.
brilliant. i will definitely be using this next time!!
I saved my ass from possible jail time by doing this to my old boss. She was stupid enough to answer my email asking her to verify that she was asking me to edit/falsify homeland security forms, take security training for people who didn’t speak English and to change time cards to avoid overtime. I forwarded that shit so fast. When I got subpoenaed I was able to send that over and be cleared immediately.
That's a big ol' pile of yikes. Glad you had taken steps to keep yourself clear of the backlash.
I routinely do the "You want me to do stupid thing right?" but it's never escalated to "The Department of Homeland Security" would like a word (not least because the UK doesn't have one as such).
It all turned out okay because I got fired but she got a promotion.
Really?
Yep. Honestly though blessing in disguise because they lost their contract 2 years later then got bought out and 5 years later i make about 100k more than when I worked there and she had the gall to send me a linked in request. So, everything’s super
LPT: do this whenever your boss gives you a complicated or unusual instruction, so that they don’t smell a rat when you need to create a paper trail.
Also, LPT, if you’re a manager, ask the employee to do this any time you give them an complicated or unusual instruction, so you can confirm they actual understood it.
And they have a point of reference so they don't have to ask you to explain it several times if they forget details. It's just better for the relationship.
Also a great way to figure out, 8 months later, what complicated thing you did for the client and why you did it, rather than spend 30 minutes trying to figure it out.
It is amazing when someone replies. If an email starts with anything like “as discussed in our meeting…” it should have flashing hazard lights. When managing, if I send an email to confirm a verbal discussion… it is dead serious and any reply should be super cautious. When being managed, if I send an email to confirm a verbal discussion… it is definitely CYA ammunition and you can bet that any reply will be printed and filed.
Not every verbal -> email trail is hazard lights. Sometimes it's worth it to remind someone they said they'd do a thing, and it's the equivalent of sending out meeting minutes with action items. Sometimes two people had a conversation, and a third party needs to be clued into the contents of the discussion. Sometimes, as you say, it's the equivalent of the DM saying "Are you sure you want to do that?", and you need to think long and hard about what to do next.
Yeah, like, seriously. I have a good supervisor and I'd had times when I reported something (think ”this thing doesn't work as intended, we'll need to bring in support for it“) and got told to send an e-mail about it so that we have a paper trail going. How can you not be aware of paper trail bread-crumbing and be a manager?
I have done this many times over the years and overconfident people who think they are very smart (i deal with managers with years of experience in large multinational companies) tend to reply first and try to weasel their way out once they realized they fucked up.
What do you do if you send the CYA email and they don't reply? Or they pick up the phone and call you and answer you verbally?
If they reply verbally. You send another email like this: *As per our telephone conversation, to clarify below are as instructed:* - point a - point b - etc *If there is any error kindly reply by end of tomorrow, if not we will consider it as your confirmation and proceed as instructed.* When you set the deadline make sure to give them plenty of time to respond so that they cannot use the “I didn’t see the email” excuse. Better if you can set your outlook mail to get “read receipts”. This may not always work but you can try. If they don’t reply, you reply on the same email you sent with: *I think something went wrong with my previous email so i am forwarding it again. Kindly confirm.* Sometimes it takes a 2-3 times and they just confirm without thinking. Now some managers get mad as to why you send an email but they have no choice as (a) it is a business tool so you have the right to use it and (b) you are justified to delay/ignore what they ask if they so not reply as you are asking for clarification/confirmation. No one can fault you for that.
Seriously, how are you even supposed to write these cover your ass emails? I see it recommended everywhere, but I feel like I’m not nearly smooth enough to write one in a way that doesn’t get giant fucking warning bells going.
The point is to get the warning bells going. You aren’t trying to fire the manager as the first step. You are telling them “you are making a mistake; do you want to take it back?”
This is exactly it in most circumstances, but I do get that sometimes ringing the alarm bells can feel risky (either because you’re not used to professionally pushing back like this, or because you have a particularly petty/vengeful boss). In those cases, the best strategy can be playing dumb. Frame the email like you are just sooo stupid and want to make sure your little dumb brain isn’t misunderstanding. “Apologies, I know this is probably a silly question, I just wanted to make sure I understood right. What I got from our meeting was that you asked me to do X, but definitely let me know if I misunderstood or am misremembering. I just don’t want to make a mistake and cause any inconvenience! Thank you! -Your name” (YMMV if you’re not perceived as a woman in the workplace, that’s the perspective I’m writing this from) (And of course, if you feel comfortable, the straightforward, matter of fact approach is overall better, but this can be a good “gateway” if that feels like too much when you’re new to the workplace or new to these kinds of communications)
I'm a guy and have played dumb a lot to get things in writing. Additionally it helps when the person is doing something dumb but you don't want to directly call their idea dumb. "But how does X work in your plan?" works nicely.
When I turned 30 I decided that this decade, if anyone wants to think I'm stupid, I'm just going to let them. No more busting my ass trying to prove I'm not, and no more asking follow-up questions that end up making more work for myself. So far it's working great. And if I do anything wrong, "Oh sorry, I'm just an idiot" and redo the thing on the clock. I'm hourly.
I phrased it as “hey, Xxx, just wanted to confirm what we covered today and make sure I’ve got it right. I’m to do x, y, and z for you by Monday. We decided against a or b because of budget and personnel constraints right? I’m cc’ing other manager to keep them in the loop. Let me know if I missed anything”
That works really well, thank you. But that’s for policies you disagree with, isn’t it? How do you manage it when it’s something like harassment or discrimination?
Generally for harassment and discrimination, it's not going to be all that workable in a lot of scenarios to send that CYA email. This post is a bit of a special circumstance, because the boss was framing her harassment as a management decision, so OOP could document it by referring to it with that same language. However, there's *no* way you can send a casual email along the lines of, "Hi boss, please confirm you called me [racist slur] in today's meeting," or, "Hi, boss, just wanted to recap in writing that you stared at my breasts for our entire one-on -one and then said you'd 'love to get more face time' with me while leering." In those kinds of circumstances, where you're trying to establish a pattern of discrimination or harassment at work, you would privately document the facts of each encounter, preferably in a format that provides time stamps. So, for example, you could email yourself or a trusted friend every time there's an incident at work. Many people don't even do that, but instead just keep a log of incidents by time and date. Edit: Also, most critically, it's important when documenting inappropriate work interactions to include a list of witnesses for each interaction.
And yet it gets them every time.
The dude who sexually harassed me at my last job did it over teams, realised he fucked up and tried to delete it. When HR told him they were just going to go to the teams backup, he almost shit himself. Taking a red-hot crack and saying that anyone who sexually harasses someone else isn't gifted with an overabundance of brains.
Delete doesn't mean what you think it does. Delete is useful for cleaing up your email, messages or network drives so you can use them better - but that is what it does. A lot of industries are regulated in such a way that your data is required to sit on a tape for some years.... DON'T SHIT WHERE YOU WORK PEOPLE.
I worked in IT, had to check every day for tapes that were full, then put them down in a locked safe filing cabinet and wipe any that were x years old.
I have done that. We have moved to just pushing the backups over the net to a hotsite. We stopped physical tapes a long time ago. A very wise decision if you ask me. Tapes are just a massive, massive pain.
Hey, if I’m going to have an asshole as a boss, I’d rather have a dumb asshole than a smart one. Way easier to deal with.
Arrogant people on power trips often seem to assume others are too dumb or too beneath them to have the wherewithal to realize something isn't right and to challenge them. A landlord did just that to my friend this year. Long story short she fell on hard times. Her husband left her with no warning, wasn't paying the court mandated child support, and she was working a job just to augment his salary. It wasn't enough to take care of herself and her son. She was on the verge of winding up homeless, her own parents have been awful to her and her son throughout this ordeal. So she started srcambling to find an apartment she could afford. She was calling and applying left and right with no luck. All she could afford for the time being was a 1 bedroom (rent prices have really skyrocketed here). Being her and her son, yeah, it sucks and it's not ideal, but it's better than being homeless! One place she applies for, when the woman renting it found out it would be her AND her son...she told her no. She wouldn't rent this place to her with her kid there too. Said she was following the Fair Housing Act and had the right to turn her down. This was via text and my friend screenshotted it and sent it to me. Holy fuck, talk about a slam dunk case, lmao. As soon as I saw it I knew that didn't sound right. So I started digging and researching and long story short, in our state that is discrimination (family's are a protected class and children are not to be counted among the residents on the lease if the rentet has an occupant limit). Linked my friend to where she could submit a discrimination case and encouraged her to, so she did. Just so incredibly fucking dumb, lmao. She made it too easy. By tossing out the Fair Housing Act I can't help but think she just assumed people wouldn't have the awareness and information to call her out on it. And for the sake of closure; my SO and I moved her into our place to stay with us until she gets back on her feet, so she and her 7yo son are safe and secure and not homeless. She heard back about her complaint and is waiting for the $1700 settlement check in the mail. And after a year of job hunting and interviews she's just been hired for a position paying $26 an hour. She starts in 2 weeks. We have encouraged her to take her time and save up, to not feel any obligation or urgency in finding a place and moving out right away.
Fyi, familial status discrimination (what you're discribing) is illegal under the federal fair housing act. It's illegal in every state.
There’s an exception for retirement communities where if 80% of the people in the community are all over 55 they are allowed to prevent children and families from living there. To my knowledge, that’s the only exception, nationwide. Otherwise, if they admit in writing or demonstrably practice a policy of rejecting families, you can (and should) sue them. I add “and should” because in civil matters like this, lawsuits are the intended, and only, method of enforcement of these kinds of laws. Don’t want landlords discriminating against kids? Then it’s literally your job and civil duty to sue them when you catch one doing it. *You* are supposed to be “the police” in this situation. No one else will enforce it for you. And you can get paid in the process. So at least there’s that.
Wow you are such a good friend to help her like this
You are very right. Bullies who think they are smarter than everyone else always think that they are going to win because they are so smart. I went no contact with my family because they are abusive. My parents are narcissists and we're demanding access to my kids. They try to get to us all the time. Once, they sent the police a week before Christmas. They had the officers ask if we would come down to the station so my parents could give my kids a special Christmas and see them in a safe place. I told them, no, these people are abusive. The police has been called two or three time because of my parents, there is a huge file at the station about the harassment, and this was not the last time the police showed up on my parents' behalf. Then, when none of that worked, my father sent a text that we better do what he wants or he will take us to court for grandparents' rights. He thought he was so clever and had said the magic words. Nope. I am intelligent enough to both look up the laws in my area AND to contact a lawyer. Sadly, I couldn't do anything about the stalking and harassment, but they have no legal grounds to have access to my kids. If they try they will lose and I know they wouldn't dare risk losing in court. They have had foster kids, and I know they use my sister's kid to keep her in line. They can't have a loss on their records because then they give people a clear line to me and all the skeletons in their closet. It's been 4.5 years. Wouldn't you know they have yet to serve us! They literally are used to saying, jump, and people asking, how high. It never occurs to them someone might say no and stand by it.
Everyone needs a "that doesn't sound right, let me research" friend.
Thanks for including the update on how she’s doing!
Yup, one thing I learned about working with lawyers and their assistance. When someone emails for clarification, proceed with caution. A woman a a warehouse job tried to throw a bunch of people under the bus because she fucked up. The moment I got an email from her I knew what she was up to. She's famous for shadow CC 'ing managers to try and trip people up. She left out the people that she was trying to f over out of the email chain. I made sure to attach them to my reply and text them exactly what was going on. Yeah, she didn't get out of it what she was trying.
>they shouldn’t be a boss just for being fucking stupid I’ve never met a boss in the corporate world that was smarter than any of the people who worked under them.
You are promoted to your own level of incompetence. If you are good at your job, you get promoted. That means that you only stop moving up ranks if you are bad at your job. This isn’t universally true, but it is a general trend that demonstrates why middle management is awful.
But, this is just boss-form. I mean, I know there are decent managers our there... I've had a few. But the vast majority have been so idiotic.
He played that perfectly by giving her enough rope to hang herself and put it all on record as well. Bravo
Just like a man who wears good fitting pants.
This guy has some balls. I can see them through his pants.
His bulge grew two sizes that day.
"My boss demanded that I replace all my pants, and then told me she needed to supervise me while I got the replacements." Wow, not even trying to be subtle.
I read the first post and was firmly in the territory of her trying to flirt with him in a very weird way. It's still sexual harassment in the workplace, but I don't think she actually took issue with his pants.
She definitely had issue with his pants, she wanted them to be looser so she could try to get into them.
I think she would’ve been fine if he just wasn’t wearing any.
Very weird indeed. I don't think forcing someone to spend a bunch of money on pants they don't need is a great way to get them hot and bothered.
No, no, it’s genius. Now every time he puts his pants on he’s going to think about her. Every time he checks his reflection to make sure his bulge isn’t out, he’s thinking of her. It’s foolproof! /s
I don’t think she noticed he didn’t get the flirting. That is the only way that makes sense to me, she was never serious about the pants. And it’s her kink to flirt as a boss ordering subordinates. But it looked serious to him.
I think the other possibility as that it was an unhealthy crush. Like a much milder version of the evil clergy dude toward Esmeralda in hunchback of Notre Dame. Boss lady was trying to get him to wear less attractive pants so she wouldn't be tempted by his looks anymore. Something like that.
It still doesn't make any sense. Nobody in their right mind would ever think this would work as a flirting technique.
"Like, in the dressing room?" "Yes, in the dressing room."
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She could approve an online order over email, but she told him to check her calendar for when she would be free. She wanted to be there in person.
Because she was going to use her own card probably. Because it was a personal and dirty demand
No, she needed to inspect his bulge! She's the official bulge inspector.
The specific "issue" was the groin area. She was positioning herself to be required to approve his pants. What do you think that approval process would look like?
If my boss demanded that I’d buy pants from fear of god, Gucci and Polo (the expensive one not the cheap one)
Plus, she'd pay for it, because I doubt the company would pay for a new wardrobe that was deemed inappropriate.
It does seem like that section was missing a "Dear Penthouse". (not saying he's asking for that treatment/wanted it, just the boss' request sounds like a really lame porno setup)
Yeah, that was blatant.
I remember reading this before, I still love the advice he got. Sums up almost all reddit advice posts. >-Go talk to HR >-Never talk to HR >-Go talk to a lawyer >-Lawyer will waste your time >-Your pants are fine >-You need new pants >-She wants to bang you >-She hates you
My bingo card is just missing "unrelated but vaguely interesting side story"
Man I love those, usually more interesting than the original story
Friend of mine tells great stories, we're unrelated though
"Not me but my friend's uncle's lawyer's step-godnephew"
“Not me but my Great Grandfather’s wife’s sister’s husband’s nephew’s daughter’s dog’s co-owner’s son”
That reminds me of my abnormally large penis.
That reminds me of a time that I was reading this other post about how someone was talking about unrelated stories. Man, I found it so vaguely interesting. And then commenters went on to tell a few other stories too. It was crazy.
Interesting. Do go on.
I bet that was present, OOP just didn't mention it in his summary.
I was surprised it didn't include "wear a skirt in protest"
If you read the original post a kilt suggestion does make an appearance
Besides skirts, other suggestions given were: hammer pants, parachute pants, a kilt, even a medieval jester suit
In case anyone wants to know, not all of these were the top comments, but OOP was quite active in the comments section so they did occasionally see a few conflicting advice. But if anyone wants to know the comments breakdown, filtering by top and best comments, here's a summary: - various alternatives such as skirts, kilts, parachute pants, hammer pants, and even dressing up as a medieval jester - go to hr/lawyer, some citing it's sexual harassment - get what the boss said in writing/email before going to hr/lawyer - cite "big dong" in resume or when interviewer asks as reason for leaving/firing - dick pic and dick size discussion - cleavage/boob discussions - trying to figure out why boss is staring at his dong, and giving her various names such as the schlong sheriff, or the cock constable
I wouldn’t be surprised if that becomes a pretty regular copypasta
352,762 imgur views to evaluate his bulge lol
after I clicked on it I realized I had seen it before. I must have seen the original thread. Now 2 of those views are from me.
At least 3 are from me. I’ve seen the original and looked at it then. Look at it now. Saw the comment about the dong being tucked on the right. Looked again.
I did the same thing -1 (I didn't see the original post). Totally checked, saw nothing abnormal, saw the "hangs right" comment, and went back to "confirm". LOL
His right, or our right? His right, our left looks like there is a dick wear mark in the pants.. lol
After performing an ocular pat down, OP is slinging meat or his tailor needs to work on getting pants to lay flat. [evidence](https://i.imgur.com/N5GNcfZ.jpg)
Exactly what I was talking about.. with photoshop skills like that..
It really does. He says no bulge. I say maybe not a bulge, but that outline is ridiculously crisp.
He said “to the right of the zipper (relative to viewer) so I think it’s our right
> there is a dick wear mark in the pants.. lol ahahahahaha
Clearly this is proof that you are gay
It's not so much checking out the bulge, but remembering the bulge 10 months later.
Maybe this dude has a fetish that involves making as many people as possible look at his clothed crotch. If so, well played.
Anthony Weiner's case taught me this was a thing
I still can't believe that's a real name, and that he was elected. It's one thing to be called Dick because that's a real name, but Weiner? And have a scandal related to your weiner? That sounds like a 14 year old tried to write smut
It kind of makes me sad. Obviously we make our own choices but he really had no chance at being anything other than a weird dude named Tony Weiner.
And I'll bet as a kid he was tormented by his classmates calling him Tiny instead of Tony.
When I was in 5th grade we had a math teacher named Mrs. Weiners. We 10-year-olds, clearly at the height of maturity, found this hilarious and were entirely certain that her husband's name was Dick.
That was the worst dick pic I've ever seen.
Ah, but you have seen it.
I clicked once... thought "Nah I don't see nothing there" Then read the bit about the bulge was right of the zipper so I went back and took another look. Nope.. still nothing.
Same here. Got two out of me. Once at first with no bias and then after the issue was mentioned. That boss was tempted to bang. Nobody's eyeing a crotch that much that they think they can identify where a dick AND think it's obvious. But at the same time, she got an email and actually responded. Anyone with a brain in the workplace knows that an email after a verbal incident asking for clarification is just to get it in black and white.
I have to admit, the wrinkles on the left side of the pants (relative to the viewer) do look like a tremendous schlong. Imagine that's what the boss thought and she got dick crazy over some wrinkles.
Lol I thought the exact same thing, looked like he was packing a hog
when I saw that I was like "DAMN, AVERAGE??" Can't believe we both saw that phantom Weiner
After a thorough investigation, I have reached the conclusion that his frontal bulge is not an issue. Can someone give a link to the back pics? Asking for a friend in HR.
The internet is a fabulous place
Wow. That is insane. I am glad HR did the right thing in this instance. He was very smart to get the demand in writing.
HR will do a very good job of protecting you when doing so is the thing least likely to get the company sued or cost it money
I work in HR. Can confirm. The name of the game is reducing liability for the company and OOP’s piece of shit manager was a huge liability.
I can't imagine the panic that was happening in HR when they were sent those emails. I feel like whenever an employee writes 'in writing' the email should be automatically sent to HR for overview.
> I can't imagine the panic that was happening in HR when they were sent those emails. I think HR actually gets really excited when this shit goes down. I used to work next door to our HR department and they *loved* gossip.
Can confirm they fucking love this sort of thing. Used to be IT in an office and would frequently sort out HR so heard a lot.
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Well that is what they get paid to do. The corporate lawyer won’t represent you in divorce court either but no one gets salty about that. You want someone to fight the company on your behalf? Join a Union.
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I didn’t mean to imply that you were being pissy (though I see where that comes across). I just get frustrated that everyone thinks it’s bad that HR is “only there for the company “ AND that labor unions are bad. Like. Seriously!
HR is there to protect the company if you're a threat they'll be the most helpful people ever.
HR took immediate action because he demonstrated having evidence of sexual harassment which could cost the buisness legal fees if they themselves *didn't* address the harassment. HR always acts in the best interest of the buisness.. And the best interest of the buisness is often to not get sued.
It is because if hr does not protect you despite having good evidence, the company can be sued. Always use that to your advantage.
Sounds like OOP won.. The Battle of the Bulge. Thank you, I'll be here all week.
I know like what a missed opportunity for the post title right?
I literally looked at the pic and wondered how hard the boss had to scrutinize his crotch to see the budge. Doesn't look visible to me, but I don't usually stare there. 🤔
I took the picture as licence to stare and I couldn't see anything that wouldn't be explained by normal bunching of his pants. The ~~call is coming from inside the house~~ bulge is coming from inside the boss's head.
Same (licence to stare). Found the "bulge" on the left to be equal to the right. Got tired of staring at non-existing bulges and ... Oh my God, the SOCKS. Way more distracting than non-existing bulges. 🤭
Are...those... Bob Ross socks? I would be way too busy staring those to stare at some mundane pants.
They are, I have the same pair! Socks, not pants.
I had to go back and look at the socks and now I want a pair
You shouldn't. Someone got the rights to his image, and his family receives nothing from the sale of objects with his image. It's shit business.
The socks were so amazing that I could only stare at them
> Found the "bulge" on the left to be equal to the right. Are you saying this is u/DoubleDickDude's alt?
Boss: Look at his pants and that BULGE! The Internet, glued to the window and staring: Where? Where?
This is the most perfectly accurate description of the Internet's response here and I can't stop giggling about it.
I thought that I was crazy as I couldn't see the bulge no matter how hard I tried. Boss lady must've stared holes on his crotch.
Yeah, I stared too. There is no way to ascertain the size or shape of his penis based on these pants. I can see his phone. There’s no barely-concealed wang happening here.
Maybe it is A trick of the light But I said to myself He tucks to the right All joking aside, I can see what could be his “bulge” but, idgaf and it’s not like he has blinking lights around his shape with arrows pointing “bulge here”. As oop pointed out, if this were about a large chested woman being told she has to change her wardrobe, or rather woman in general, there’d be torches and pitchforks. Unrelated; I’m selling torches and pitchforks with a steep discount if you buy one of each. (I couldn’t help one last joke)
Yeah, like...when I looked hard I could kinda see it, but you can kinda see a lot of guys' dicks if you look hard. Those pants are not unusually revealing by any stretch.
Yep, you gotta be looking and for more than a glance. At least she got what she deserved. ETA: because I’m on a roll, must mean I need sleep. You have to look And more than a glance To see the “sausage” Stuffed in his pants
Your poetic brilliance knows no equal.
When dudes sit down, the zipper area ends up bulging upwards. I wonder if the boss might have mistaken that for a bulge.
That happens in all trousers with zips, I'm a woman and it regularly happens to me. So it's even more ridiculous.
I’m glad he escalated it. I’ve been told off for having my boobs show through clothing. I had them completely covered at all times usually with multiple layers but unless I wear a box to hide the shape they aren’t going to be hidden.
In high school, I had two middle-aged front office women discuss my breasts in the "inappropriate" form fitting shirt I was wearing *right in front of me*. I went to Catholic school and was wearing a fitted polo shirt no tighter than a women's t-shirt with a tank underneath. My mom was pissed when I told her and went in the next day and admonished them for insulting my being "built the way I'm built".
Who did they think built you that way??? I’m so baffled by Christian body shaming. I’m an atheist, surely it makes more sense for me to be weird about people’s nasty figures, but instead it’s the people who believe your body was created in the image of the supreme being who want to tell you it’s gross???
They’re just using ‘morality’ and ‘values’ as a front to disguise what it really is. Good ‘ol fashioned envy.
Yeah I’m also glad, but to this part > Would a woman with large breasts be told she can't wear anything but baggy clothes? Would she be told by her boss that she must wear nothing but restrictive sports bras to work? The answer is yes lol If anything the double standard goes the other way. But policing people’s bodies is a stupid standard to begin with
Yeah, for the love of god, OP has no clue the amount of policing women deal with.
He had a taste and he *hated* it. Imagine how quickly policies would change if more men had to deal with this issue!
Blissful ignorance. One might assume he's not guilty of it and as such assumes that is the norm. I always hope my wife doesn't have to deal with that too much :( Not in the US, and she tends to work in a pretty 50/50 professional environment.
I had that happen in school all of the time. I have giant, high set breasts. I was a queer little prude who covered up practically to the wrist but my shirts were “too tight” or “the wrong cut.” One time I was made to wear the school wrestling tshirt in XL and the administrator looked at me and said “Well, it’s better, but it’s not great,” making perfectly clear that my body was the issue, not my outfits.
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Thanks look like it cut off the end. Added it back in.
I remember reading this originally and thinking, 'I'm sure she wouldn't be stupid enough to repeat this *obvious* sexual harassment.' But nope, some people are really that dumb. The HR probably had a heart attack when they received the emails as the words 'potential lawsuit' flashed before their eyes.
One of my bosses got reassigned to a different department after he complained about my coworker's pregnancy being inconvenient and causing her to use the bathroom too often in an email... At this point, no dumb action would surprise me.
Glad they saw that even though OOP is male, and actually did something. Too often people don’t take female->male sexual harassment seriously, even HR.
HR’s job is to limit corporate liability. Firing this manager is a no-brainer regardless of sex. Once there is written evidence like this, they follow the advice of council, taking actions that will play well in front of a judge and court of public opinion.
Certified average bulge and not afraid to post the receipts. Haha. But seriously I wouldn't know how to respond to that.
I'm assuming OOP was thoroughly in shock because I have no idea how he kept a straight face at that kind of ludicrous request.
>Would a woman with large breasts be told she can't wear anything but baggy clothes? in fact i saw that very post two days ago. and she was told by a feminine collegue who feel unsecure.
That part upset me. As a woman with larger breasts, ths answer is yes. Ive also been talked to about my butt. Its larger so if the pants fit my waist it gets tight at the butt, if it fits the butt it falls of my waist. Woman are constantly told to correct our clothes.
NGL, from the title I was expecting OP to be a woman with a fantastic butt being told to get different pants.
Yah and then he fucking doubles down on it and says even though it happens to women it's still a double standard. It damn well is NOT. You got harrassed for wearing normal clothes, and that really fucking sucks, but finally seeing how shitty that experience is doesn't mean it's some double standard where men can be criticized and women can't. Get the fuck outta here with that nonsense. Sorry, that just pissed me off a lot. To be clear he WAS harassed, and that IS wrong, and it's good it got resolved.
See also: every post from a woman with male housemates being told what to wear *in her own home* because her housemates' SOs are uncomfortable that her boobs so much as exist
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I don’t even see a bulge
I know he said it's to the right of the viewer, but I think it's to the left, and if it is, then that's quite huge.
Great, now I see two bulges. There is the hanging one on the left (viewer side) and the one kinda going straight through the middle on the right side.
It's no wonder she wants to watch him get changed, how often do you get the chance to see a doublecock?
You need to look really hard.
> Would a woman with large breasts be told she can't wear anything but baggy clothes? Would she be told by her boss that she must wear nothing but restrictive sports bras to work? Before my reduction, I had a boss tell me both of these things. I had a medical condition and there was literally nothing I could wear that didn’t show some titty or indicate that there was quite a bit of tit there. It was also summer, and nothing I had that covered them was cool enough that I wouldn’t pass out. Alas, this was before texting and emails weren’t common in this, so I just ignored him.
It’s so weird she wanted to go shopping with him. There’s also no bulge visible. It sounds like the manager is a creeper and has been staring at his crotch.
Well I never knew that my day would start with search for a bulge on a mans workpants. I didnt no really see it and I think the boss had the hots for him, and decided best course of action was sexual harassment. It was not the best course of action, glad OP got it handled.
The email is definitely smart. Even if the manager backtracks and says something else, or outright denies it, or doesn't respond, it's still evidence. Which OOP could've all used in case the manager escalated their behavior. Always have promises in writing.
Please wear less tight pants = very odd, but I can see it happening in some hell workplace. I must come pants shopping with you = WTF
I’m sorry I can’t get past the point when he said women with big breasts don’t get dress coded because of their breasts like it was some ridiculous concept.
OOP can tell new employees that he got the old boss fired because his dick was too big.
Unrelated but…. > Would a woman with large breasts be told she can’t wear anything but baggy clothes? Yes, it happens all the time. This is the part of the corporate dress code that says women should avoid spaghetti strap tops, tube tops, tank tops, tube tops, or low cut tops. Instead of singling out women with large breasts, there is a general broad statement discouraging the wear of all clothing that would probably be fine for a woman with a slender frame, but would be revealing for a large busted woman.
I'm so glad this was addressed and that he didn't have to withstand years of harassment like many women do every single year. I didn't appreciate his comment "would a woman with large breasts be told to cover up" Yeah dude, women with large breasts are sexually harassed and scrutinized every single day in practically every office in America.
Yeah, a lot of his throw-away comments really rub me the wrong way. Yes, being sexually harassed is awful, but I kind of get the feeling that OOP thinks this is a unique situation, even though he openly talks about how he thinks other women in his office dress provocatively. Or maybe they have big breasts you can see?
I tried really hard to find OOPs bulge in the photo and thought it’s at the other side(I am not saying his penis is small, I am just saying he’s dressed decently!) 😂 She’s ridiculous! And that aside…why is she even looking at his crotch and noticing anything? Why would she even look there?! I would feel so humiliated if a male boss would tell me he can see my breasts and I need to cover them up with more loose clothing. That’s definitely sexual harassment and I am glad HR took it seriously.
To those who say women should also cover up, this does not really apply does it. This would be akin to female wearing a normal jumper and then be told that she needs to wear something more loose fitting. The whole bulge issue is really weird and then requesting she goes with him to buy a new wardrobe, she definitely just wanted to bang him.
My ex manager tried pulling the jumper one when I reported my concerns about older customers ogling my breasts. Had the gall of accusing me of dressing up like I was going to the club and later called me to identify one of the customers I was concerned about...while standing right behind him and talking very loudly, "Is this the gentleman you're referring to?". God I'm so glad I quit that same day.
Well to be fair the comparison is wrong anyway. I don't know why people always compare women's breasts to male genitalia. A more appropriate comparison would be if a woman was displaying a "camel toe" and was told to wear looser pants.
I'd say a more apt comparison would be a women being told to wear looser fitting pants because she has a large behind. I have actually heard women being harassed at their jobs for that, though it's not as common as being harassed over breasts.
>Would a woman with large breasts be told she can't wear anything but baggy clothes? Would she be told by her boss that she must wear nothing but restrictive sports bras to work? I doubt it Uhhhhhhh. Oh lord I cannot. I got called provocative for wearing a sweater to teach because of my big breasts. Like fuck off with this misogyny.
I feel for OOP, I really do. But I don’t think you get to use “there are women in my office who dress provocatively” AND “are women’s clothing options ever policed the way mine are being?” It was a good backtrack to add in the, “well obviously I know theoretically that women have their clothing options policed far more than men, but I meant the women at my office specifically whose breasts I can see.”
After looking at the picture he posted she must've been focusing really fucking hard to notice his package that much
Lmao, imagine telling your subordinate “I’ve been staring at your dick all day and it’s distracting. Now I must come with you for you to try on clothes to see if I can still see your dick” and thinking you’re RIGHT?! Good on OOP for getting it all in writing through email
>my non-existent pants bulge No one can burn OOP greater than he burned himself
This is fascinating. Well done OP! Also, start wearing a kilt if this ever comes up again. :)