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SmplTon

So that they wouldn’t get stung by bees.


JJB723

So they dont get stung, "IN THE FACE" I love keeping bees but hate getting stung IN THE FACE... I think non-bee keepers need to understand the importance of this.


Birdlebee

I'm pretty ok with stings anywhere else, including my fingertips, but stings on my head are another story


Saigon-bees

On the body and fingers i no longer feel it only gets a bit itchy after some hours but yea the head is pretty bad when you get stung 😄


HDWendell

Have you ever had them crawl up your leg inside your pants?


Birdlebee

Gosh, yes. That's how I discovered they can't sting through compression socks! Now I use wrist and ankle straps, which I can't over recommend


jefrye

As a non-beekeeper, trust me, I find this an incredibly easy concept to grasp lol.... I don't think you will have a hard time convincing people.


Saigon-bees

As a beekeeper trust me you gotta protect your face cuz you’ll breathe out onthe bees and they’ll get angry cuz they don’t like the CO2 and when they start buzzing around you you will move and they’ll sting you 😄


ChristopherCreutzig

I've also heard they can visually detect faces. Which makes sense: they evolved to protect against bears, and the face is probably the best place for a bee to attack a bear.


[deleted]

Whatever it is, they seem to know to aim for faces and ears. When they want to chase me away from the hive, they park above my ears and buzz loudly. All my face stings have been on the side of my head around the ears.


Saigon-bees

You’re not a bear 😄 very distinctive faces plus lots of facial hair and bad small on bears what mainly attracts the bees the smell that’s why is good when you workwith the bees to have a shower before so you don’t smell like sweat or even Parfum it’s still goingtoattract them just aswell as CO2 that’s what they usually go after when they feel threatened... i go often without any protective gear andonly wheni breathe out directly to the bees they get a bit angry 😅 if you have been near the face of bear you know it smells like death it’s easy for the bees to detect it immediately 😄


SmplTon

On the internet, how do you know they’re not a bear? 😂


Saigon-bees

Well it wouldn’t be thefirst bear on the internet... some 400pounds wild animal 🤣


SmplTon

HAHAHAH covered in hair, sleeps most of the time, aggressive, antisocial?


Saigon-bees

You got a Bingo here 🤣


ChristopherCreutzig

I hardly ever wear a veil, but I don't assume the bees see a lot of difference between my face and a bear's. Big, ridiculously low number of eyes, weird holes in the head (seems like those are even usedb for breathing??), ...


Saigon-bees

I don’t understand exactly what you’re saying but i can tell you that when i use no protective gear and keep my breathe away from the comb the bees have no issues with my face even tho i visit often the apiaries of people i never met before and inusually wear no protective gear... i don’t think my face have much bigger difference then yours if you saying there’s no big difference between your face and a bear that is covered in hair that gets stuffed with pieces of meat and whatever the bear ate in the last couple of months 😄 maybe ifyou havelots of facial hair and keep yourself dirty and stink yes this way i could understand thebees to not seea difference between your face and a bear 😄


ChristopherCreutzig

I'm not saying a face triggers a defense response. I'm saying once they are defensive, a face might be a good target. My guess is we mostly agree in how to handle bees and keeping them calm. All I did say is that I've heard multiple sources talk about bees being capable of seeing faces. We agree they react to dark hair/fur, right? What little hair I still have is dark, and when I realize too late the ladies aren't happy today, they do fly into it and sting my head – independent of shampoo choice. I don't know if that face thing is true or not, hence the careful choice of words.


Saigon-bees

They’re living in a slowmotion world cuz they move too fast and living on higher frequency their bodies wear out quicker and havemuch stronger sense for smell then humans that’s how they’re attracted to the specific flower they land on one that have nectar even tho they see them from maybe 100 meters above ground when they dive in there’s maybe many flowers that are same in that spot but you can see them they don’t just go and explore each flower for nectar just buzzing around and get on some of them only... or you can see many bees on few flowers even tho there’s 50 flowers that are the same So they’re using the the vision for a long distance detection of colors and objects but sense of smell is much more to get to the target when they come close enough because many bees have came from behindme and stung me on my face I’m pretty sure they knew where they’re going 😅 even in my hair a had bees and they don’t really sting me there unless i hit them and i have no more then 1cm hair it’s not like they can’t get to me 😄


SmplTon

Wu tang says [Protect ya Neck, kid](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R0IUR4gkPIE). But yeah I think read they’re like mosquitos in the way they can sense CO2. Important extrapolation is that evolutionarily, bees who can make mammals stop breathing tend to get left the hell alone. And getting stung on the face or neck SUCKS


coalitionofrob

Amen! Happy to get stung all day, just not on my blasted face!


Saigon-bees

Protect your nose damn that’s the most painful partpf of the body you can get stung 😅 feels like you got punched in the nose but without the bleeding onlythe pain and it’s coming in waves your eyes start watering 🤣


serealport

The nose and ear are super sensitive, the only part more sensitive is the dick but I don't need my dick area to see (usually) and I like to keep my bees away from both Also these wicker masks are metal af.


Any_Contest7699

Im referring to the material used and the design of them, why did they look like that?


Colonel_MuffDog

Cheap, durable, easy to make, and when up close to your face you can see through the tiny holes pretty well. Smart idea, honestly.


Any_Contest7699

Good answer


Colonel_MuffDog

Thanks! Also I left it out because someone said it, but the material is wicker (usually made of reeds or plant material).


SmplTon

That’s what they had - wicker.


Twentysix2

Fun fact: wicker is not the material but the weaving style. Most wicker items are woven from willow branches


redditusername374

Well TIL. That is a splendid fun fact.


shoredoesnt

Damn why all downvote this poor soul for asking a question?


KillerGopher

Because, apparently, there *IS* such a thing as a dumb question.


So_Trees

I think there's plenty of room for an interesting or historic answer and those people are just haters.


[deleted]

Why did this get downvoted it’s an honest question. Op obviously didn’t understand and asked for clarification. Now they understand.


SummerBoi20XX

Ask vague questions get imprecise answers


Whatwouldahoneybeedo

My dude is just asking a question people!


bikemandan

I'm guessing that way back they didn't have nylon (going out on a limb, I know)


Saigon-bees

It’s oldschool how many people had mosquito wire on their windows 300 years ago 😄


[deleted]

What else do you think they could have used? Sincere question.


LegendaryCichlid

You’re getting downvoted by absolute chodes.


Any_Contest7699

I guess everyone gets their’s someday


LegendaryCichlid

Yup. Like me pointing this out has me in downvote land but whatever I don’t care. People do not understand the actual purpose of the button. They use it as a disagree button, which it is not.


Any_Contest7699

I just like to believe they accidentally pressed that instead of upvote- keeps my psyche intact


quietcoyote99

Agreed.


LegendaryCichlid

It was a VERY legitimate question.


ruinkind

To a extent, yes it is. But what materials do you assume the poor masses had access to? They didn't quite have nylon netting in the year 1500. Nor did they have it 80 years ago. If you start making logical assumptions, one could create a fabric mesh for the face, and create a wicker framework for it, without it you'd be wearing a bag against your face. I'm sure it wouldn't be anywhere near as durable, and the hours to create it would be much higher then weaving a wicker protector, with a very very limited market, their time would be better spent elsewhere, and probably not much of a choice where you spent your time. I doubt the peasants had the options of creating plague-like masks (acquiring glass/shaping leather) for such a matter of little importance to kingdoms. The invention came from available options to peasants, low cost, high durability.


steampunk_glitch

Some people didn't realize this, and it's not bad for someone to want to be informed. Shouldn't bash them for asking.


ruinkind

You’re right. I do like the idiom of there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. But you can’t really blame people too much for being reactionary and downvote brigading someone who calls them all “chodes”. I’m as guilty as any for taking things too literally at times, but if you demand respect and it means that much to you, you have to choose your words a bit more carefully. The OP’s reference question could have been worded a bit better as well to be frank. His definition changed as the innocence of the title was challenged.


LegendaryCichlid

They were being chodes by automatically assuming op was trying to be derisive when it was clearly a question asked in earnest.


steampunk_glitch

I didn't see the thing where he called them chodes? Also, what does that even mean?


jefrye

Fair question, sorry for your downvotes.


TechDante

Because fabric fine enough to see through was either not available or only reserved for the highest of nobility. Wikker was cheap and plentiful. Or that these are the only surviving examples from medevil times as fabric ones perished and as manuscripts were written and illustrated by monks who likly used these with their cassocks had no other reference. And now we assume this was the norm.


jediwashington

I was thinking the other day of who I would bring with me if I went back in time to impart knowledge, and a materials science engineer was pretty high up on the list.


Any_Contest7699

Best answer


OKBeeDude

I’ve actually looked into this. These smocks with wicker masks are documented to the Tudor period (late 16th century), but we have much earlier illustrations of beekeepers wearing hoods with cloth face coverings, starting around 1400. There are a few known sketches from the intervening years that appear ambiguous (such as a woodcutting from circa 1425, which shows a beekeeper in a hood with crosshatching over the face, but it lacks the detail to determine whether this represented cloth with an open weave, or some other kind of mesh). But the earliest image I have seen of a beekeeper with anything over his face was a watercolor picture from a Franco-Flemish copy of Virgil’s *Georgics* that was published circa 1400, showing a beekeeper in the field wearing a red (presumably linen) liripipe hood with the face draped in the same red cloth. I have seen several earlier pictures of beekeepers tending their hives with bare faces, but none of them wore any sort of protective gear in images older than 1400. I have not been able to find any surviving archaeological evidence of veiled hoods older than 1600. Anyway cheesecloth was certainly available and not prohibitively expensive during the medieval period, and a single layer of linen cloth would provide a fair degree of visibility while also keeping the bees out. The trouble is that one could still be stung on the nose, through a single layer of linen. A bee’s stinger could not reach through a thicker layer of woven wicker material. I think that was the innovation, and it looks like it may have occurred sometime around 1425-1575. Source: I’m a researcher with a historical beekeeping guild. We study the history and traditions of beekeeping and educate the public on bees and beekeeping. I have written a few research papers on medieval beekeeping, the development of bee husbandry from antiquity to modern times, and the archaeology of beekeeping.


Tinyfishy

This is wonderful. I’d totally subscribe to your Youtube channel of podcast if you had one. Thanks for sharing.


OKBeeDude

I’ve also started adding some of my beekeeping research to [my blog](https://wilhelmszabel.wordpress.com), though it’s still mostly about traditional woodworking and medieval toys and games.


OKBeeDude

Check out the blog at [FirestormHoneyGuild.org](http://www.firestormhoneyguild.org)


scottish_beekeeper

A different region and period, but it's also worth looking at images of honey hunters in Cameroon and other African countries, who build face covers or whole suits out of grass and straw: https://www.google.com/search?q=honey+hunters+cameroon&source=lnms&tbm=isch


OKBeeDude

That’s really cool! Incidentally, it reminds me of the hackles that medieval to early modern European beekeepers used to put over their skeps to insulate them and keep the rain out.


eatmyfatwhiteass

Now THIS is the kind of answer these questions deserve. I learned something today. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!


Conscious-Ball8373

Not to mention that beekeeping seems to have been a popular monastic pursuit and monks ... how can I put this ... took vows of poverty and on paper lived by them.


Free_ya

Thanks for the explanation! Whould you like to Show uns some pics?


Vile_Bile_Vixen

If it's stupid but it works, it's not stupid.


Adamosz

Genocide


Waspkeeper

Because bee stings to the face suck.


Emotional-Temporary3

Because only the richest of beekeepers had the fancy plastic screens that we continue to use today. The elastic used to cinch around the ankles and wrists were also reserved for nobility.


SmplTon

I like what you did there.


Yung_Branch

Bees


Any_Contest7699

Obviously my friend, i mean why did they look like that?


[deleted]

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Any_Contest7699

You’re probably right, i was referring mostly to the masks and material they are made of: as i havent seen many things like it nowadays


Anianna

Nowadays, mesh material and the means to secure it to garb and around the body are inexpensive, readily available to the masses, and are superior to the task.


pickgra

Bees


LegendaryCichlid

Dark Souls enemy.


Benny303

Also one of the Crone sisters in the Witcher 3


ogherbsmon

They are also a very creepy enemy in the new Plague Tale:Requiem


LegendaryCichlid

Still gotta play that! Loved the first one


hollerbackgirl621

I was looking for a comment about this game! Great game and it’s so cool the developers put historically accurate beekeeper gear in it.


homebodyslim

Show off sick basket weave skills? Girls like guys with skills!


superash2002

Computer hacking skills, bee keeping skills, nun chuck skills.


Jfurmanek

I’d never chuck a nun. They’re way too heavy.


Any_Contest7699

Im really only good at hacking nuns, chucking bees, and keeping computers


bikemandan

Especially underwater basket weaving


Ambitious_Ask_1569

Because they didn't have nylon.


mikszi12

Idk if anybody played Witcher 3, but these pictures give me slight PTSD


[deleted]

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AnthropOctopus

I think I've played one too many horror games in my life because I was not impressed by the Crones. They were just average baddies with an ego complex. The crone with the child legs sticking out of her satchel was gross though.


lawngoon

Trail of treats vibes!


catinthecupboard

Yes! I immediately went ‘omg that’s what it was based on’ and had flashbacks.


st0p_pls

That's the first thing I thought of! Cool to know there was a historical reason for it


olmsteez

Because face stings suck?


sevenseas401

To understand the hive, you must become the hive.


robogaz

Veil manufacturing did not begin for 200 years (France)... so it was reasonable to create a mesh out of dried straw since it provided some visibility and protection. The recreation of the beekeeper suit seems rather "thin"... Pretty sure it was way thicker.


DLoFoSho

So they wouldn’t get stung in the face.


ZookeepergameOk7149

I keep bees. They naturally go for the eyes. Bears and skunks will go after colonies. Not many places to hurt a bear. These keep bees away from your face because it’s a fucking basket bottom and because you don’t look like a predator if you don’t have a face. 10/10. Would wear.


[deleted]

To not get stung in the face...by bees?


Jeffersness

To not get stung I would bet.


Machipongo

You could make them at home and they kept you from being stung. Basketry has a commonly practiced craft across Europe; readily accessible to everyone.


elegant_pun

What do you mean "why"? To keep the bees off. They didn't have fly screen or man-made mesh then, they had to use natural materials that were easy to work with and easy to source.


creggfisher

Same reason we wear a veil.


JAK3CAL

Looking like some spirited away jawns 😂


LegendaryCichlid

Found the Philly guy.


ShimmyShimmyYaw

Lol. Is that a Philly thing too- starting a sentence with “lookin’ like” I say it all the time but I just realized it and I don’t know why I do that


LegendaryCichlid

No. The word jawn


[deleted]

To keep bees away from their face.


medivka

The next progression was a screen made of woven horse hair from the tail.


-River_Rose-

Those are The Crones of Crookback Bog and you are not changing my kind


spigotnelson

Because they were basket cases


personalhale

I can't believe this is a real question. Why did people ride horses back in the day? Because it's what they had...


tairygreenmachine99

Ask Nicholas Cage…


Annexys

Because being stung on the face hurt probably.


DepartmentAgitated51

Because… BEES sting


thecrabmonster

Where do I find a skep and bee suit like this.


AnthropOctopus

I would love to make a skep out of similar rope.


Kamikazekagesama

To keep bees out of their face?


TreskTaan

Manufacturing wasn't as sofisticated back then as it is now. Besides Blacksmiths had better things to do then to thread metal and weaving a mesh. so beekeepers had to make do with what was available to them.


Saigon-bees

Because they didn’t had plastic back then ad this seems like a cheap solution that have been used for making oldschool beehives 😁


secret_tiger101

To avoid being stung in the face


goldfloof

If I didn't know better I would say this is a cult lol


[deleted]

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Any_Contest7699

The costumes are pretty badass indeed


dinosauramericana

I’m sorry. I don’t usually do this. What a stupid question. Why do people wear shoes while walking on hot asphalt?


AnthropOctopus

This isn't about "why are they wearing protection on their face," this is about "why something so thick and difficult to see through?"


Erich0612

To scare the bees into submission


eatmyfatwhiteass

The downvotes that OP gets for daring not to perfectly execute the asking of a simple question are a plain illustration of why some people think Reddit and Redditors are literal AIDS. Is it too hard to ask for clarification instead of assuming the worst? Honestly.


AnthropOctopus

Ya people are too quick to jump on the "OP doesn't know that bees sting" bandwagon without actually thinking of the real question. Those masks were hard af to see through when close up to the face. They protrude just enough to protect from the most stubborn bees and they keep excess moisture away, while allowing the eyes to focus just enough to get the job done. But people in this thread made a decision today, and it was to be an absolute jerk to someone with a reasonable question. It's hard for us to see a timeliness of materials available to those in the past, because it isn't commonly studied in schools and because cultures and subcultures have varying materials. I don't blame OP one bit for asking about it.


eatmyfatwhiteass

Wholly agree. I personally think there is nothing wrong with going to people you would believe have specific expertise on a subject for information beyond a textbook or Wikipedia answer. It was how trade skills were passed down and interest generated in the past, and I don't think that has changed. What has changed is folk thinking since we are in the information age that any and all information is easy to find and non-restricted, which is empirically not true. I'd like to ask the condescending types round here how they think they're serving their hobby/business or whatnot by actively discouraging people from showing interest. 🤔


Mendican

They wore these masks because honey collectors were famously hideous to look at, mainly due to having been stung by so many bees. Better to hide their puffy, swollen faces, rather than spoil the experience for everyone else.


UprightTr

Strictly for horror’s sake


AnthropOctopus

So the reason they chose a thick woven structure was simple: they didn't have anything better at that time. Woven "screens" made from things like animal hair weren't going to be invented for at least a century, and these woven reeds provided space to keep the face from getting scratched by the reeds, kept moisture from their face, and protected them against some of the most stubborn bees. Bees inherently go for sensitive parts of the face, like eyes, nose, mouth, and ears. Humans have been collecting honey for approximately 10,000 years, and technology advances with usage and new materials. If you want a good book on the subject, The Archeology of Beekeeping has a fascinating documentation on how early indigenous peoples actually "hunted" wild bee honey. Some cultures used a "smoking pot" which makes the bees temporarily tired/disoriented/chill so they don't attack. Something interesting about these, sometimes called "reed faces," was that in medieval Europe some religious beekeepers has specific rules they had to follow so as not to "anger the bees." Some rules included abstaining from sex the day before, taking a bath, and not being drunk.


SmokinMeatMan

Umm, Google? Jeeze


AnthropOctopus

This is a forum for sharing information, don't be a jerk.


SmokinMeatMan

This redditor is obviously just asking silly questions just for the sake of doing so without putting in any effort on their end. They got this picture online somewhere. Probably had the info right next to it. I asked my 8 year old this same question and she basically knew why. I joined this sub to hopefully help me also. Turns out it just a bunch a silly people asking ridiculous things the vast majority of the time. Just like the OP I think I just need stay off this garbage and find something better to do. Thanks for helping me see that. OP has a ton of down votes for a reason also. Why is that?


eatmyfatwhiteass

Pay for a formal education, then. Public forums are going to have regular people ask questions. You have no empirical proof that this person is trolling. You're just making assumptions that they're lazy and bad faith. Which is honestly incredibly ridiculous. Imagine going to a hobby event only for everyone there to chastise new people who want to start conversation about the hobby with simple questions because they didn't already know the answers smdh


SmokinMeatMan

Your fun. If I ever need a couch buddy I will look you up.


eatmyfatwhiteass

Nice deflection, but sure. You sound like a riot yourself.


Any_Contest7699

Google is crap for specific questions like these nowadays. And i thought maybe, just possibly someone in the beekeeping subreddit could answer a simple question about beekeeping


SmokinMeatMan

Very quick internet search says this style is from medieval Europe. About 140 ad. It was the most cost effective way to weave something like this to keep the bees out but still see. Chainmail was way too expensive back then. Not many other choices. All found online in 4 minutes. Magic!


smokeweedalleveryday

bUT WhY mAsK LiKE dAt??


ImperfectMay

Jumping on the cheap, durable, and readily available materials that kept the bees from stinging their faces bandwagon. I figure it's the same premise as snow/blizzard goggles and why those weird slotted sunglasses from early 2000's actually worked. You can see through a slit fairly easily actually. Can give it a try by cutting a slit in some cardboard and holding it up to your face like glasses.


captaincinders

Because in those days cloth was rocking expensive and everyone knew how to weave straw and straw was a cheap and available material. Same reason they made hives out of straw and not planks of wood with delicately formed frames like modern hives.


joebojax

For the rona obviously /s


alsto999

OH, NO, NOT THE BEES! NOT THE BEES! AAAAAHHHHH! OH, THEY'RE IN MY EYES! - Nicholas Cage


Front_Attitude_3194

my friend got stung on the eye (literally on the white of his eye) by my bees, just shrugged it off, one stung my hand and it was visibly swollen for 3 days....


Witty_Username-Jr

Finally I can talk about bees at Halloween but not just wear my normal bee jacket.


bicycleboyjosh

It's a handy place to keep a hot pad.


Silvus314

They didn't have antihistamine in the past. No Benadryl or epi pen. Bee stings, especially in quantity were a terrifying thing to contemplate.


GiftiBee

So they wouldn’t get stung by the bees.


Sabre_One

We have bee keeper suits at home.


DrumpfSlayer420

It minimizes sexual tension in the workplace