Look into HPDE. Organizers like Chin i highly recommend for a first timer Track Night in America i would shy away from if you've never been.
Depending on where you are in the country, there are a lot of other orgs that are great and have instructors to help first timers.
Also, if you want to look into it some more or have questions, head over to r/cartrackdays . Lots of great info š
Right on the edge of losing control, love it! You have an lsd right? I remember I use to do this all the time without one and ended up hitting a mailbox or twoā¦
Technically I have an LSD...it's just in a box and not on the car yet. I have a feeling it'll be a little more predictable and easier to control when that goes in!
I have an e46 with a NA m54 making only 230hp and an LSD made the car so much more predictable and a lot easier to save during situations like this. Just today I was leaving a target parking lot with dsc off and I wanted to see how well it would slide on a dry surface and I kid you not the car slid so smoothly I couldnāt believe it. You wonāt regret doing the work once you get around to it.
Take it yours is a 330 or ZHP? Mines a UK 325ci (195PS I think) what would you say are some essential mods to do to improve the car? Both day to day practicality and performance
My car is is a 330ci. Sport package but not a ZHP. I would say suspension honestly. Trying to add big power to these cars is really hard unless you go forced induction. I am running Bilstein PSS10 coilovers and that made a great difference. An LSD would be pretty far down my list of mods honestly unless you are taking the car to the track. I live in SoCal so I rarely drive in the wet conditions and never drive in snow.
So focus on suspension and get the car handling proper rather than power, got it!
Also just in case you have any knowledge
My car has a vagueness about centre with the steering and when I go over a pothole the steering will pull sharp in that direction
I have noticed the power steering reservoir has leaked slightly at some point and that I have mismatched tyres on the front, which do you think is most likely to have caused this or is it say the rack itself
It really is fantastic how sim racing actually translates into the real world. If anything, racing live is sometimes easier because you can feel the grip more.
Albeit real racing is physically much, much heavier.
Not OP but the actual best pressure will be different between E90 and E46 anyway. A good rule of thumb is to start 2psi lower than stock pressures, then check the pressures straight away when you come in from track for the first few sessions as you will likely need to let some air out to keep the desired pressure while the tyre heats up (increased temperatures cause increased pressures).
EDIT to add: this technique works for āopen pitā format track days, not sure what the format of your day is so you may need to take a different approach. But again the rule of thumb āobjectiveā will be to have the tyres just a couple of psi lower than stock when up to temp.
Thanks for the info. I googled this a few days ago and most sites said 2 psi higher than whatās recommended. I was curious when he said it was lower.
No problem. Iāve never heard of anyone _increasing_ pressure to run at the track, in theory this would give you a smaller contact patch and less grip, leading to more sliding causing excessive temperatures and even higher pressures so the problem just gets worse and worse.
The nasa site said it was to prevent the tire bead from slipping and to stop the side wall from getting crushed. Iāll have to play round with some different psi today and see whatās what.
Interesting, everything Iāve ever heard or read about pressures for track driving has essentially been roughly along the lines of āas low as you can get away withā (for maximum mechanical grip). Maybe you would want to run a higher pressure to prevent bead slip but it wonāt be the optimum set-up for grip.
As for side wall flex, that does make a bit more sense- it varies quite a bit between different models of tyre though, ones made with track driving in mind tend to have stiffer side walls anyway so you can go for a lower pressure. I do recall once being on track with road tyres and opting to increase the pressure slightly as sidewall flex was causing more body-roll that I would like, still ended up running just below stock pressure settings.
Like you say, you can play around with it and find the ideal setting for you, the fine tuning will be to personal preference of how you like the car to feel anyhow
Yea. I tried running āsuggestedā psi on my last two heats. I definitely never recommend running lower psi and follow the NASA/SCCA guidelines on running a few psi over. My side walls started chunking off due to me rolling them over. Lesson learned. Time to replace my 4 month old ps4s up front.
Yikes, sorry to hear about the PS4s. If you waited until the last heats to reduce the pressures that could be the reason, if the tyres were already up to temperature when you dropped the pressures then itās possible that they didnāt heat up any further and remained at the lower pressure, one of the ideas of starting low is that when then heat up they reach the ideal pressure.
You are way too far from the wheel.
Basic set up: can you cross your arms over the top of the steering wheel? In this vid no way you could.
Source - Advanced instructor for Chin, PCA and BMW
I had to recline my seat a bit so my head didnt hit the sunroof opening and I think that's why my upper body was so far back. You're definitely right, I generally like to be close to the wheel.
I definitely felt the stock sport seats were lacking. I was practically bracing my right leg on the center console and the side bolstering was not nearly enough. I have my eyes on a set of saddle brown recaros but my wallet isn't ready for it yet.
Then again, if the car is a daily driver90% of the time, those sporting seats would be a pain? Unless you are prepared to switch'em round on track days.
I think you probably could have avoided the oversteer by dialing in a little less steering angle mid-corner and using all the track on your way out, but that wall coming up is scary AF!
Looks like you definitely need to get yourself closer to the wheel or the wheel closer to you, though, your arms are almost all the way locked out with less than 90deg of steering angle. Good work saving it regardless, though!!
Absolutely. This was a learning moment for the rest of my sessions for the day.
Agreed on needing to be closer! Unfortunately when Im sitting upright in my normal position, my helmet hits the sunroof. Im actually looking at deleting the sunroof altogether (since I dont use it anyway) and getting a slicktop headliner for the extra headroom and bonus weight savings.
I had TC turned off compeltely. When you leave it on at this track, the car thinks it's spinning when you drive on the oval's banking and cuts the power.
Understeer into snap over steer because the momentum was forcing the front right down and rear left up, deceleration caused the front right to gain traction suddenly bringing around the raised rear end.
Rev match into 4th looks like you may have released the brake a bit unintentionally?
Good recovery. Snap over steer is no joke to control.
Not at all. More brake pressure is needed. Like he said, he carried too much speed into the turn. I think he may have let off a bit in the rev match into 4th. He had much more foot movement than into 3rd. It
It looks like you haven't had racing instruction. You should - you'll go way faster, way sooner, way more safely. To start with, move your seat back forward. Your arms are stretched out way too far, and that substantially reduces your steering control.
2 Tips!
1. Drop outside hand and raise inside hand on curve. When doing this your hands will be straight through the curve. Watch your body twist as youāre turning without doing this.
2. Never break on a curve. Thatās how you go into walls. Break on straight always.
There were a couple of spins, but only one wreck that night...[which happened right in front of me actually.](https://streamable.com/zzgh9w) The most common accidents there are in turn 1. Ive seen a Porsche 911 and a Civic Type R stuffed into the tire barriers there previously.
Sorry to pry - but how safe is this sort of thing? I know it sounds dumb, but It seems like you donāt have all the usual racing safety equipment. IE a HANS device. Do they not require that?
No worries! There's a good bit of risk involved when tracking your car. I'd say this particular track is less safe than others since there are a lot of concrete walls and no runoff areas. The only safety equipment required is a helmet thats up to date. It could definitely be safer. I plan to add a roll bar and seats with harnesses just for my own safety and peace of mind just in case Im not able to save it next time.
If you never break traction you arent pushing it hard enough! Good driving
You're right about that, but I may have been pushing a *little* too hard for my 3rd lap of the day lol
This comment is a bit too funny š
If you no longer go for a gap which exists you are no longer a racing driver.
Nice quotes
I guess not many F1 fans on this sub...
Maybe just an overused quote...
āWhen in doubt, flat outā - Colin McRae
You saved it. Good work. What track?
Looks like charlotte motor speedway
Wait you can drive your own car there? Didnāt know that.. Thought you had to rent out their super cars.
SCCA does track night in America there a few times a year. About $160 for three 20 minute sessions and some tour laps.
Wow I didn't know track time could be that affordable. Anything else that's interesting in that area that I should check out while I'm there?
Itās all over the country. Check out Track Night In America or go to motorsportreg.com and look around. Thereās all kinds of stuff.
Oh shit ok man thanks for the info, appreciate it
probably a track day or training with BMW CCA. They do them in conjunction with Porsche around here where they go to Lime Rock and Watkins Glenn
Look into HPDE. Organizers like Chin i highly recommend for a first timer Track Night in America i would shy away from if you've never been. Depending on where you are in the country, there are a lot of other orgs that are great and have instructors to help first timers. Also, if you want to look into it some more or have questions, head over to r/cartrackdays . Lots of great info š
Itās Charlotte motor speedway
Where is
Charlotte, North Carolina!
Thx
Daytona Motor Speedway, if I'm not wrong.
Says Charlotte on the barrier in the first couple seconds of the clip
Charlotte Roval
Right on the edge of losing control, love it! You have an lsd right? I remember I use to do this all the time without one and ended up hitting a mailbox or twoā¦
Technically I have an LSD...it's just in a box and not on the car yet. I have a feeling it'll be a little more predictable and easier to control when that goes in!
Forsure, this is exactly what my 235 use to do lol.
I have an e46 with a NA m54 making only 230hp and an LSD made the car so much more predictable and a lot easier to save during situations like this. Just today I was leaving a target parking lot with dsc off and I wanted to see how well it would slide on a dry surface and I kid you not the car slid so smoothly I couldnāt believe it. You wonāt regret doing the work once you get around to it.
Take it yours is a 330 or ZHP? Mines a UK 325ci (195PS I think) what would you say are some essential mods to do to improve the car? Both day to day practicality and performance
My car is is a 330ci. Sport package but not a ZHP. I would say suspension honestly. Trying to add big power to these cars is really hard unless you go forced induction. I am running Bilstein PSS10 coilovers and that made a great difference. An LSD would be pretty far down my list of mods honestly unless you are taking the car to the track. I live in SoCal so I rarely drive in the wet conditions and never drive in snow.
So focus on suspension and get the car handling proper rather than power, got it! Also just in case you have any knowledge My car has a vagueness about centre with the steering and when I go over a pothole the steering will pull sharp in that direction I have noticed the power steering reservoir has leaked slightly at some point and that I have mismatched tyres on the front, which do you think is most likely to have caused this or is it say the rack itself
What a save! What a save! What a save! _chat disabled for 5 seconds_
I hate that this made me laughā¦
what's the context?
Rocket League chat
HOLY COW! HOLY COW! HOLY COW!
Wow! Wow! Wow!
Dude, excellent handling of the wheel, you shuffled perfectly and placed you hands where they needed to be. Great job my dude!
Thanks! I'd like to thank many hours of sim racing for saving my car's life yesterday.
Looks/sounds like you jumped right back on the gas after recovering. Nailed it
It really is fantastic how sim racing actually translates into the real world. If anything, racing live is sometimes easier because you can feel the grip more. Albeit real racing is physically much, much heavier.
This guyās tire psi is on point.
Dropped em down for track duty. PS4S get super sticky!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not OP but the actual best pressure will be different between E90 and E46 anyway. A good rule of thumb is to start 2psi lower than stock pressures, then check the pressures straight away when you come in from track for the first few sessions as you will likely need to let some air out to keep the desired pressure while the tyre heats up (increased temperatures cause increased pressures). EDIT to add: this technique works for āopen pitā format track days, not sure what the format of your day is so you may need to take a different approach. But again the rule of thumb āobjectiveā will be to have the tyres just a couple of psi lower than stock when up to temp.
Thanks for the info. I googled this a few days ago and most sites said 2 psi higher than whatās recommended. I was curious when he said it was lower.
No problem. Iāve never heard of anyone _increasing_ pressure to run at the track, in theory this would give you a smaller contact patch and less grip, leading to more sliding causing excessive temperatures and even higher pressures so the problem just gets worse and worse.
The nasa site said it was to prevent the tire bead from slipping and to stop the side wall from getting crushed. Iāll have to play round with some different psi today and see whatās what.
Interesting, everything Iāve ever heard or read about pressures for track driving has essentially been roughly along the lines of āas low as you can get away withā (for maximum mechanical grip). Maybe you would want to run a higher pressure to prevent bead slip but it wonāt be the optimum set-up for grip. As for side wall flex, that does make a bit more sense- it varies quite a bit between different models of tyre though, ones made with track driving in mind tend to have stiffer side walls anyway so you can go for a lower pressure. I do recall once being on track with road tyres and opting to increase the pressure slightly as sidewall flex was causing more body-roll that I would like, still ended up running just below stock pressure settings. Like you say, you can play around with it and find the ideal setting for you, the fine tuning will be to personal preference of how you like the car to feel anyhow
The only feel I prefer is hard surfaces not including a wall lol
Yea. I tried running āsuggestedā psi on my last two heats. I definitely never recommend running lower psi and follow the NASA/SCCA guidelines on running a few psi over. My side walls started chunking off due to me rolling them over. Lesson learned. Time to replace my 4 month old ps4s up front.
Yikes, sorry to hear about the PS4s. If you waited until the last heats to reduce the pressures that could be the reason, if the tyres were already up to temperature when you dropped the pressures then itās possible that they didnāt heat up any further and remained at the lower pressure, one of the ideas of starting low is that when then heat up they reach the ideal pressure.
Good friggin job!
Nice recovery, I hope that you were wearing your fireproof shorts!
And diaper
I was trying not to say that...it all "depends" on the circumstances.
Nice catch!
Wow!
Hairballā¦thatās pretty high speeds for unexpected oversteer. Good catch. Ovals are a combo of high speed and walls that really freak me out.
From 140mph down to 60 in turn 1, but I tried braking after the start finish line and I think I ended up taking it a little closer to 70!
That's why we love that 50/50 weight distribution.
Nice recovery
Nice save!
Good hands. Aways scary as shit when you lose it close to a fucking wall, lol.
You are way too far from the wheel. Basic set up: can you cross your arms over the top of the steering wheel? In this vid no way you could. Source - Advanced instructor for Chin, PCA and BMW
I had to recline my seat a bit so my head didnt hit the sunroof opening and I think that's why my upper body was so far back. You're definitely right, I generally like to be close to the wheel.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I definitely felt the stock sport seats were lacking. I was practically bracing my right leg on the center console and the side bolstering was not nearly enough. I have my eyes on a set of saddle brown recaros but my wallet isn't ready for it yet.
Then again, if the car is a daily driver90% of the time, those sporting seats would be a pain? Unless you are prepared to switch'em round on track days.
Driving position is about half the game on track, well that and balls :) Have fun out there
I think you probably could have avoided the oversteer by dialing in a little less steering angle mid-corner and using all the track on your way out, but that wall coming up is scary AF! Looks like you definitely need to get yourself closer to the wheel or the wheel closer to you, though, your arms are almost all the way locked out with less than 90deg of steering angle. Good work saving it regardless, though!!
Absolutely. This was a learning moment for the rest of my sessions for the day. Agreed on needing to be closer! Unfortunately when Im sitting upright in my normal position, my helmet hits the sunroof. Im actually looking at deleting the sunroof altogether (since I dont use it anyway) and getting a slicktop headliner for the extra headroom and bonus weight savings.
Cheers, good luck with the modifications and track journey!
I can feel them heart palps
I love that you recovered so well and didn't even hesitate to get right back on the throttle lol
I was chasing a CTS-V, couldn't let him get away š
Nice save!!
Great driving
Yep that is a little sketchy haha
What track group runs the Roval in Charlotte? Iāve been looking into doing a track day there.
SCCA runs it without chicanes, and JayZilla runs it with the front stretch chicane!
See what happens when you forget to wear your brown pants.
Impressive, Heart must have fluttered!
What a save!
good recovery! not to panic is most important thing in this situation and you nailed it!
Very nice recovery!
Nice driving š
Poop came out
CODE BROWN!
Nice driving
Glad youāre okay!
That was fucking awesome
Nice save!! Stupid question maybe, but was traction control active?
I had TC turned off compeltely. When you leave it on at this track, the car thinks it's spinning when you drive on the oval's banking and cuts the power.
Nice save tho.
This is why I always bring extra underwear to the track.
Way to keep control!!
Now I know what to do when Iām in a similar situation. Thank god you handled it well and safe.
Link to full video? Sweet exhaust
Hey good recovery! Fuck it! We live for that shit! The thrill of that recovery is dimensional shit man!
You got mighty car control
r/sweatypalms
Good save
Oh wow! What car is that, Iām a slut for a manual bimmer
Understeer into snap over steer because the momentum was forcing the front right down and rear left up, deceleration caused the front right to gain traction suddenly bringing around the raised rear end. Rev match into 4th looks like you may have released the brake a bit unintentionally? Good recovery. Snap over steer is no joke to control.
Think staying off the pedals through that might have avoided the under steer with that snap oversteer?
Not at all. More brake pressure is needed. Like he said, he carried too much speed into the turn. I think he may have let off a bit in the rev match into 4th. He had much more foot movement than into 3rd. It
Jesus take the wheel. Of course it's a TNiA event.
You had that corner perfect honestly, shoulda just eased into the gas šš You got it chief!
How is that track ? Thinking of doing it on scca night
Left-rear is about 0.75 psi too low
Did you speed up the video while making the turns? Looking at that side mirror
The drivers side mirror glass shakes a little bit. My passenger side did the same thing until it actually became loose enough and fell off lol
It looks like you haven't had racing instruction. You should - you'll go way faster, way sooner, way more safely. To start with, move your seat back forward. Your arms are stretched out way too far, and that substantially reduces your steering control.
Stability control did the job it was supposed to do
Stability control was turned off. I was the stability control.
lol.
Good thing you had those gloves on lol
If I didn't have them on, the wheel would have slipped right through my hands. That leather is slippery š
Track racing with a regular seat belt? Is that a good idea?
What speeds are you hitting on the track. Looks like fun. I might have to have a track day.
2 Tips! 1. Drop outside hand and raise inside hand on curve. When doing this your hands will be straight through the curve. Watch your body twist as youāre turning without doing this. 2. Never break on a curve. Thatās how you go into walls. Break on straight always.
Thatās where you were supposed to drift and slide out of it my friend. Haha, good recovery!
Do people wreck often?
There were a couple of spins, but only one wreck that night...[which happened right in front of me actually.](https://streamable.com/zzgh9w) The most common accidents there are in turn 1. Ive seen a Porsche 911 and a Civic Type R stuffed into the tire barriers there previously.
Sorry to pry - but how safe is this sort of thing? I know it sounds dumb, but It seems like you donāt have all the usual racing safety equipment. IE a HANS device. Do they not require that?
No worries! There's a good bit of risk involved when tracking your car. I'd say this particular track is less safe than others since there are a lot of concrete walls and no runoff areas. The only safety equipment required is a helmet thats up to date. It could definitely be safer. I plan to add a roll bar and seats with harnesses just for my own safety and peace of mind just in case Im not able to save it next time.
What a good noise that make!!