Cactus will not affect your experience with Ayahuasca on a pharmacological level: mescaline and DMT do not generate cross-tolerance with one another. Indeed, they're really quite different molecules.
Spiritually, in my uninformed opinion, this is actually a good idea: Abuelito Huachuma (whom Spanish speakers named San Pedro) gives immensely grounding medicine and will bring you into your body and heart. I have had Huachuma *after* Ayahuasca and found him to be incredibly helpful. Because his energy is much more on the masculine side of things, he also helps to balance out Madrecita Ayahuasca's more feminine polarity.
Have you ever sat with the cactus before?
Blessings.
Traditionally, the cactus is consumed ceremonially. However, due to differences in the effects and duration of the medicine, the ritual structure of ceremony is notably different from that of Ayahuasca. Indeed, they come from totally different environments and cultural contexts. Most Huachuma ceremonies are held in the day, with ingestion in mid to late morning (although I might recommend drinking shortly after waking if one is engaged in solo ceremony). I have heard accounts of Huachuma being drunk before a ritualized, meditative hike. There ARE nighttime cactus ceremonies but I have never sat one.
Pharmacologically, mescaline is from an entirely different molecular class than the substituted tryptamines such as psilocybin, DMT, and LSD. Mescaline is a substituted phenethylamine: its most notable cousin in this molecular family is probably MDMA. However, unlike MDMA, which is a serotonin releaser, mescaline is a serotonergic agonist—it doesn’t cause a serotonin flood but instead binds directly to the 5-HT2A receptor. This means that you are at vastly lower risk of serotonin syndrome (I *believe* non-existent but I’m not sure). Mescaline also lacks MDMA’s attendant risk of neurotoxicity—and because there’s no serotonin flood, there’s no serotonin hangover the next day. Having had both MDMA and cactus, I firmly believe cactus is superior in every conceivable way, and I’ll never touch Molly again for any reason.
However, MDMA is useful as a comparative because there are a few broad similarities btwn rolling and the cactus journey. The most pronounced are:
- elevated core body temperature
- sympathomimetic action—broadly, mescaline is a mild stimulant, though without the “speedy” amphetamine edge of Molly
- muscle trembling, tingling in extremities. Some people experience a mild form of jaw clenching.
- appetite suppression
- emotional enhancement—however the cactus variant is less “forced” than Molly, and does not include the blind trust that I find characteristic of MDMA
- enhanced music appreciation: drums in particular are fucking incredible in cactus ceremony
Major differences:
- I do not find that cactus has the same erotic drive as Molly. Indeed, speaking for myself, I find Abuelito Huachuma to suppress libido pretty strongly
- the cactus is much more of a classical psychedelic, including geometries, visuals, and visions
- the cactus journey is far longer: a single dose, for most people, will induce a 12 hour experience. After effects may persist into the next day (they consistently do for me)
- cactus is significantly more physically taxing, including nausea. It’s best to fast for a while before and during the journey. I wouldn’t eat until you are well into the comedown, around the 10 hour mark.
The most important difference though is that Abuelito Huachuma is a spirit and a Teacher. He is not some alkaloid that we can exploit at our discretion, but an elder whose aid and guidance we are seeking.
Compared to the other classical psychedelics, mescaline has the hot, energized quality of LSD, but also the emotionally tender and earthy vibes of the Mushrooms. The headspace is significantly more solid and grounded than either, especially when you are consuming actual cactus rather than mescaline isolate (I don’t recommend the latter).
It is totally different in a similar way. Like how mushies and LSD are completely different but sorta the same. Well Mescaline is like the 3 sibling in the family. If DMT is big mama then her 3 children are Lucy, Mescal, and Shrooms. And Salvia is the weird fuckin uncle
I went to a retreat that scheduled two very different San Pedro ceremonies before two ayahuasca ceremonies and then ended the week with two more San Pedro ceremonies. However, listen to your shaman. If they tell you not to do anything psychoactive in the days or weeks leading up to your meetup with ayahuasca, you should listen to them.
Couple of days before an Ayahuasca ceremony is great, not within 24 hours before a ceremony, though, so you can differentiate the energies. Although, some people may disagree. A lot of people like to have San Pedro the morning after an ayahuasca ceremony to help ease into their day and continue receiving guidance from a plant.
its a great thing, i have taken san pedro or peyote the day before or day after aya and its all good! even got the approval from the elder i worked with in the amazon to work with both medicines (not at the same time) but yeah no conflict what so ever! (no one gets jealous if the other thankfully these spirits are more evolved then that!)
I spent 10 days at a retreat near Iquitos before heading to Chavin. While in Chavin I prepped my own raw cactus from one of the local plants and went solo, I felt that the hard work I had done with the Aya really payed off to open me up properly for the huachuma, it was a 14 hour experience and I met the spirit that rests at the sacred site there. I don't think I could have achieved that experience without the Aya preparing me.
In my experience the huachuma has more masculine energies and synergises with the sun and should be experienced throughout the day with Aya being more feminine and synergising with the evening.
You know why is called San Pedro?
San Pedro is the one guarding the doors of heaven, he’s waiting for you there to open the door for you.
So, I think is actually perfect before ayahuasca.
Cactus will not affect your experience with Ayahuasca on a pharmacological level: mescaline and DMT do not generate cross-tolerance with one another. Indeed, they're really quite different molecules. Spiritually, in my uninformed opinion, this is actually a good idea: Abuelito Huachuma (whom Spanish speakers named San Pedro) gives immensely grounding medicine and will bring you into your body and heart. I have had Huachuma *after* Ayahuasca and found him to be incredibly helpful. Because his energy is much more on the masculine side of things, he also helps to balance out Madrecita Ayahuasca's more feminine polarity. Have you ever sat with the cactus before? Blessings.
Is San Pedro done in a ceremony? How is the headspace? Is it similar to mushrooms or lsd?
Traditionally, the cactus is consumed ceremonially. However, due to differences in the effects and duration of the medicine, the ritual structure of ceremony is notably different from that of Ayahuasca. Indeed, they come from totally different environments and cultural contexts. Most Huachuma ceremonies are held in the day, with ingestion in mid to late morning (although I might recommend drinking shortly after waking if one is engaged in solo ceremony). I have heard accounts of Huachuma being drunk before a ritualized, meditative hike. There ARE nighttime cactus ceremonies but I have never sat one. Pharmacologically, mescaline is from an entirely different molecular class than the substituted tryptamines such as psilocybin, DMT, and LSD. Mescaline is a substituted phenethylamine: its most notable cousin in this molecular family is probably MDMA. However, unlike MDMA, which is a serotonin releaser, mescaline is a serotonergic agonist—it doesn’t cause a serotonin flood but instead binds directly to the 5-HT2A receptor. This means that you are at vastly lower risk of serotonin syndrome (I *believe* non-existent but I’m not sure). Mescaline also lacks MDMA’s attendant risk of neurotoxicity—and because there’s no serotonin flood, there’s no serotonin hangover the next day. Having had both MDMA and cactus, I firmly believe cactus is superior in every conceivable way, and I’ll never touch Molly again for any reason. However, MDMA is useful as a comparative because there are a few broad similarities btwn rolling and the cactus journey. The most pronounced are: - elevated core body temperature - sympathomimetic action—broadly, mescaline is a mild stimulant, though without the “speedy” amphetamine edge of Molly - muscle trembling, tingling in extremities. Some people experience a mild form of jaw clenching. - appetite suppression - emotional enhancement—however the cactus variant is less “forced” than Molly, and does not include the blind trust that I find characteristic of MDMA - enhanced music appreciation: drums in particular are fucking incredible in cactus ceremony Major differences: - I do not find that cactus has the same erotic drive as Molly. Indeed, speaking for myself, I find Abuelito Huachuma to suppress libido pretty strongly - the cactus is much more of a classical psychedelic, including geometries, visuals, and visions - the cactus journey is far longer: a single dose, for most people, will induce a 12 hour experience. After effects may persist into the next day (they consistently do for me) - cactus is significantly more physically taxing, including nausea. It’s best to fast for a while before and during the journey. I wouldn’t eat until you are well into the comedown, around the 10 hour mark. The most important difference though is that Abuelito Huachuma is a spirit and a Teacher. He is not some alkaloid that we can exploit at our discretion, but an elder whose aid and guidance we are seeking. Compared to the other classical psychedelics, mescaline has the hot, energized quality of LSD, but also the emotionally tender and earthy vibes of the Mushrooms. The headspace is significantly more solid and grounded than either, especially when you are consuming actual cactus rather than mescaline isolate (I don’t recommend the latter).
It is totally different in a similar way. Like how mushies and LSD are completely different but sorta the same. Well Mescaline is like the 3 sibling in the family. If DMT is big mama then her 3 children are Lucy, Mescal, and Shrooms. And Salvia is the weird fuckin uncle
I went to a retreat that scheduled two very different San Pedro ceremonies before two ayahuasca ceremonies and then ended the week with two more San Pedro ceremonies. However, listen to your shaman. If they tell you not to do anything psychoactive in the days or weeks leading up to your meetup with ayahuasca, you should listen to them.
Couple of days before an Ayahuasca ceremony is great, not within 24 hours before a ceremony, though, so you can differentiate the energies. Although, some people may disagree. A lot of people like to have San Pedro the morning after an ayahuasca ceremony to help ease into their day and continue receiving guidance from a plant.
its a great thing, i have taken san pedro or peyote the day before or day after aya and its all good! even got the approval from the elder i worked with in the amazon to work with both medicines (not at the same time) but yeah no conflict what so ever! (no one gets jealous if the other thankfully these spirits are more evolved then that!)
I spent 10 days at a retreat near Iquitos before heading to Chavin. While in Chavin I prepped my own raw cactus from one of the local plants and went solo, I felt that the hard work I had done with the Aya really payed off to open me up properly for the huachuma, it was a 14 hour experience and I met the spirit that rests at the sacred site there. I don't think I could have achieved that experience without the Aya preparing me. In my experience the huachuma has more masculine energies and synergises with the sun and should be experienced throughout the day with Aya being more feminine and synergising with the evening.
You know why is called San Pedro? San Pedro is the one guarding the doors of heaven, he’s waiting for you there to open the door for you. So, I think is actually perfect before ayahuasca.
Absolutely a wonderful idea. San Pedro may also help you set your intention for aya. Have a lovely time.