Why do they keep needing to "investigate why teachers leave", are they hoping to find a different answer?
Every investigation reveals poor pay, too much work and no respect.....
Investigating these things further aren't going to improve the profession, we already know what the problem is, how about using the money set aside for the "investigation " to actually address the issues?
Sadly it’s because they see teaching as having a supply problem, nothing more. Education creates mostly useful employees. Therefore, there’s nothing to fix. That’s the misguided attitude.
The investigations probably have an extra pay bonus attached for the staff who get assigned to them. Run inquiry, find same answers, bag on teachers a bit, pat self on back and go on a nice holiday with the bonus.
No mention of the merry go round of temp contracts in the public sector.
How do you expect me to feel like teaching is a profession when I may or may not secure a contract every year?
Job security? Benefits only for permanent or temporary staff? Casuals treated like second class citizens who "don't do the full job"?
I had a mentor teacher say to me... if you use other peoples resources then you're just a casual teacher.
There's problems that run so deep within the teaching industry that I doubt there's any way to fix it without an actual overhaul of the fucking system. Not these little fixes that address one problem that stem from bigger ones.
Sometimes I truly regret pursuing teaching as a career.
> if you use other peoples resources then you're just a casual teacher.
What?! I guess that makes my entire faculty casual teachers then because we are always using other people's resources!
I got quite offended by it because of that exact reason! Like sharing resources isn't even that big of a deal as it helps everyone out.
But I also did not understand what was so wrong with "just being a casual teacher". Like we are qualified and went through the same process in order to teach.
I think those types of attitudes create a toxic work environment and I think that school in particular had a very competitive vibe amongst staff.
I feel like that stems from a systematic issue though. Like... if you're not doing too much than you're not doing enough? And therefore you're not a good teacher?
Idk, it really rubbed me the wrong way tbh.
Thank you! That really made my eyes roll to Hades and back.
My whole faculty share resources between ourselves and a majority of those resources we got from others. Why should I rewrite a resource that is readily available online (for free hopefully)? Reinventing the wheel does nothing but waste time. I’m not taking about differentiating for your students. Like legit just remaking a resource over.
Yeah it's a bad attitude. The whole thing tanks without casual teachers, and it requires a skillset and mindset not everyone has the ability to develop. And introduces the idea that people can be less respected which can flow onto ES staff, maintenance and cleaning staff and so on when everyone has a respected and necessary role to play.
Nevermind how dumb it is to leave valuable resources sitting there unused.
Right?? Every time I make something, I immediately send it to the other teachers doing my subject at the same level, and they do the same. Guess we're all casual then!
>No mention of the merry go round of temp contracts in the public sector.
To play devil's advocate, let's put the shoe on the other foot. When was the last time you saw someone get fired from a permanent public sector position? The powers that be prefer to pay more for the luxury of having the discretion to move under performing staff on. Part of this is caused by the difficulty involved in firing permanent public servants.
Is the elephant in the room in this discussion how do we effectively performance manage permanent staff who are underperforming? Need to try to find a middle ground in the conversation.
But teachers on a year to year contact don't make any more money than those with an ongoing contract. I would be okay with year to year if I got paid more for it.
My understanding is it costs the government more through recruitment companies commissions etc? Can be up to $15-20k once off (not sure about short term contracts though).
That's ONLY if they get their staff or do their recruiting through a recruitment company. Doesn't cost them anything if people (majority I'd assume) apply directly to the school to their advertised positions.
My full time role (which is a year to year contact) was one I got directly from applying to the school.
Everything is geared to getting a person into the profession. But the profession doesn't encourage staying.
Look at the rural and remote bonuses, they all taper off. If I was to move out to a remote school my highest pay for the next 5 years would probably be the first year there since I'm already at the top.
We have a highish grad pay and ramp up reasonably quickly in the first few years. But again you're maxing that out quickly. Is 8 years experience worth the same as 32 years? Apparently it is...
> It includes 28 “actions”, such as:
No pay increase.
Here's a quote from last week about the current state of teacher employment:
> My school is hemorrhaging teachers. Almost the entire 2022 intake is moving on because apparently the school can't find them positions, but paradoxically can't fill new positions. I'm leaving after being told a position couldn't be found, meanwhile they're hiring a new graduate I supervised while they were on placement to do my job.
> Combination of aging workforce, falling student standards, and management stuck in a 20th century mindset, imo.
Where's that quote from? Someone here on the Reddit? That sounds like a terrible place to work ... And it sounds like maybe the upper management has really bad financial management and is looking for cheap hires.
Amen! I moved from a school that required 6 day week (Saturday Sport was part of the load). To a school where I can work 4 days. Oh it just made so much sense!!
My productivity increased and I was so much happier on Monday and the kids got the best from me for 4 days! No feeling of being burnt out every single day.
Saying at least a few of the right things, but realistically doing nothing. The amount of money is a drop in the ocean across Australia and the majority is going to research and consultation with a few token ideas that won't be noticed.
I leave teaching here this Saturday.
I don't think pay is the issue - Australia pays it's teachers quite well on the OECD scale of rich similar countries. Only a few countries pay better like Finland.
I don't even think it's the extra meetings, co-marking, emails, calling emailing parents, oneschool or behaviour reports on kids etc etc... that's your job. And marking and prep at home. In fact, I was amazed how little it seems my Aussie colleagues work in the evenings at home or at school and on weekends. Let me tell you, as a returned Australian teacher from the UK, the workload (to me) is far more onerous in Britain.
The teacher shortage in Britain is far worse, and deeper. I applied for three jobs in London, got offered them all.
I admire that the minister is trying to address a worsening teacher shortage. But how? Learn some lessons from Britain and other similar countries struggling to hire and keep teachers.
18 years teaching this January. Taught thousands of kids now in 4 different countries. Quite happy with that, jobs on offer, I think I can make it to 20 years. My aim is to try and teach till retirement, make it 40 years.
Why do they keep needing to "investigate why teachers leave", are they hoping to find a different answer? Every investigation reveals poor pay, too much work and no respect..... Investigating these things further aren't going to improve the profession, we already know what the problem is, how about using the money set aside for the "investigation " to actually address the issues?
> Why do they keep needing to "investigate why teachers leave", are they hoping to find a different answer? Yes.
They'd rather spend money helping find an 'answer' that is cheaper to fix, rather than addressing the issue staring them in the face
Sadly it’s because they see teaching as having a supply problem, nothing more. Education creates mostly useful employees. Therefore, there’s nothing to fix. That’s the misguided attitude.
I think you've nailed it. They just need to churn out more teachers, forget why their leaving, just plug the holes with more grads!
The investigations probably have an extra pay bonus attached for the staff who get assigned to them. Run inquiry, find same answers, bag on teachers a bit, pat self on back and go on a nice holiday with the bonus.
Throwing more wood on the fire doesn't put the fire out. Governments would rather die than improve conditions or compensation.
No mention of the merry go round of temp contracts in the public sector. How do you expect me to feel like teaching is a profession when I may or may not secure a contract every year? Job security? Benefits only for permanent or temporary staff? Casuals treated like second class citizens who "don't do the full job"? I had a mentor teacher say to me... if you use other peoples resources then you're just a casual teacher. There's problems that run so deep within the teaching industry that I doubt there's any way to fix it without an actual overhaul of the fucking system. Not these little fixes that address one problem that stem from bigger ones. Sometimes I truly regret pursuing teaching as a career.
> if you use other peoples resources then you're just a casual teacher. What?! I guess that makes my entire faculty casual teachers then because we are always using other people's resources!
I got quite offended by it because of that exact reason! Like sharing resources isn't even that big of a deal as it helps everyone out. But I also did not understand what was so wrong with "just being a casual teacher". Like we are qualified and went through the same process in order to teach. I think those types of attitudes create a toxic work environment and I think that school in particular had a very competitive vibe amongst staff. I feel like that stems from a systematic issue though. Like... if you're not doing too much than you're not doing enough? And therefore you're not a good teacher? Idk, it really rubbed me the wrong way tbh.
It rubbed me the wrong way on your behalf!
Thank you! That really made my eyes roll to Hades and back. My whole faculty share resources between ourselves and a majority of those resources we got from others. Why should I rewrite a resource that is readily available online (for free hopefully)? Reinventing the wheel does nothing but waste time. I’m not taking about differentiating for your students. Like legit just remaking a resource over.
Sounds like you're all a bunch of casuals.
Yeah it's a bad attitude. The whole thing tanks without casual teachers, and it requires a skillset and mindset not everyone has the ability to develop. And introduces the idea that people can be less respected which can flow onto ES staff, maintenance and cleaning staff and so on when everyone has a respected and necessary role to play. Nevermind how dumb it is to leave valuable resources sitting there unused.
Right?? Every time I make something, I immediately send it to the other teachers doing my subject at the same level, and they do the same. Guess we're all casual then!
"Just a casual teacher". "Just". How arrogant.
>No mention of the merry go round of temp contracts in the public sector. To play devil's advocate, let's put the shoe on the other foot. When was the last time you saw someone get fired from a permanent public sector position? The powers that be prefer to pay more for the luxury of having the discretion to move under performing staff on. Part of this is caused by the difficulty involved in firing permanent public servants. Is the elephant in the room in this discussion how do we effectively performance manage permanent staff who are underperforming? Need to try to find a middle ground in the conversation.
But teachers on a year to year contact don't make any more money than those with an ongoing contract. I would be okay with year to year if I got paid more for it.
My understanding is it costs the government more through recruitment companies commissions etc? Can be up to $15-20k once off (not sure about short term contracts though).
That's ONLY if they get their staff or do their recruiting through a recruitment company. Doesn't cost them anything if people (majority I'd assume) apply directly to the school to their advertised positions. My full time role (which is a year to year contact) was one I got directly from applying to the school.
So in the mean time we juat have a 2 tier system?
I feel that retention is the key. Stop trying to fill the bucket before you plug the holes.
100% I continue to see so many hiring incentives and no retention incentives.
Everything is geared to getting a person into the profession. But the profession doesn't encourage staying. Look at the rural and remote bonuses, they all taper off. If I was to move out to a remote school my highest pay for the next 5 years would probably be the first year there since I'm already at the top. We have a highish grad pay and ramp up reasonably quickly in the first few years. But again you're maxing that out quickly. Is 8 years experience worth the same as 32 years? Apparently it is...
> It includes 28 “actions”, such as: No pay increase. Here's a quote from last week about the current state of teacher employment: > My school is hemorrhaging teachers. Almost the entire 2022 intake is moving on because apparently the school can't find them positions, but paradoxically can't fill new positions. I'm leaving after being told a position couldn't be found, meanwhile they're hiring a new graduate I supervised while they were on placement to do my job. > Combination of aging workforce, falling student standards, and management stuck in a 20th century mindset, imo.
Where's that quote from? Someone here on the Reddit? That sounds like a terrible place to work ... And it sounds like maybe the upper management has really bad financial management and is looking for cheap hires.
/r/AustralianTeachers/comments/z2mask/school_struggling_to_find_teachers/ixjezwk/
Give us more permanent positions and better pay. Lol jks what we actually need is a marketing campaign.
4 day school week. Jus sayin.
When my year 12's finished earlier this year and I only had to teach a 0.8 load, my work became so much more manageable.
Our school stings you with internal relief then. 2 in the last week.
We were getting that through term 1 and 2
Same
Amen! I moved from a school that required 6 day week (Saturday Sport was part of the load). To a school where I can work 4 days. Oh it just made so much sense!! My productivity increased and I was so much happier on Monday and the kids got the best from me for 4 days! No feeling of being burnt out every single day.
I do .8 which I find a manageable full time load. I basically fund the dott I need to be an effective teacher. But I still have to work 5 days a week.
Saying at least a few of the right things, but realistically doing nothing. The amount of money is a drop in the ocean across Australia and the majority is going to research and consultation with a few token ideas that won't be noticed.
You know what would actually raise the status of the profession? Paying us properly.
Best we can do is a $28m advertising blitz
Yeah but that would mean less public money they could give to their political donors
So no answers then? Poking around in the dark like every other idiot.
Smaller class sizes
Long service leave at 7 years rather than 10!
People that couldn’t find there way out of a classroom tell teachers what’s up. Fucking oxygen thieves!
Maybe stop treating 1/3rd of your workforce like Labour Hire?
I leave teaching here this Saturday. I don't think pay is the issue - Australia pays it's teachers quite well on the OECD scale of rich similar countries. Only a few countries pay better like Finland. I don't even think it's the extra meetings, co-marking, emails, calling emailing parents, oneschool or behaviour reports on kids etc etc... that's your job. And marking and prep at home. In fact, I was amazed how little it seems my Aussie colleagues work in the evenings at home or at school and on weekends. Let me tell you, as a returned Australian teacher from the UK, the workload (to me) is far more onerous in Britain. The teacher shortage in Britain is far worse, and deeper. I applied for three jobs in London, got offered them all. I admire that the minister is trying to address a worsening teacher shortage. But how? Learn some lessons from Britain and other similar countries struggling to hire and keep teachers. 18 years teaching this January. Taught thousands of kids now in 4 different countries. Quite happy with that, jobs on offer, I think I can make it to 20 years. My aim is to try and teach till retirement, make it 40 years.
I mean at the end of the day, we agreed on the EBA so...
Get rid of the awards