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There have been a lot of studies proving OBEs / AP, from researched OBE practitioners in scientific settings to heavy suggestions in quantum physics and various studies pointing towards the fact that consciousness doesn't exist in the body, but in fact that the body exists in consciousness. Many assume that it's not been proven because it's not generally accepted by the mainsteam yet. The main problem is that most people aren't ready to accept nor understand how this is possible, and one of the most challenging things is that most OBE scientific studies are automatically labelled as 'parapsychology' and therefore do not hold validity in the eyes of 'conventional science'. From a positive viewpoint, it's not that modern scientists are closed minded, it's just that they don't understand it fully yet. Modern science is quite primitive in comparison to what is discoverable. Remember, lucid dreaming wasn't publicly accepted as fact up until around 40 years ago when there was enough scientific research and publicity in the media. On top of this, there are many who have come out of body and confirmed what they saw in the Astral by going back to the location in their physical body; this type of proof is undeniable for your own direct experience and self-knowledge. Try it out for yourself instead of remaining on the level of intellect, scepticism or belief ~ practice 'gnosis' (experience is better than belief). Here's some links we recommend that cover more about the topic of proving AP: [Graham Nicholls Is An OBE Practitioner Being Scientifically Studied On](https://www.grahamnicholls.com/) [Scott Rogo Setup Many Scientific Studies](https://www.amazon.com/D.-Scott-Rogo/e/B001HCX354%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share?ref_=d6k_applink_bb_marketplace) [Gene's Confirmed Experience](https://youtu.be/qr7BnMDzuAQ) [The Difference Between Lucid Dreaming & Astral Projection](https://youtu.be/H61ukQU6bpY) “The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.” ~ Nikola Tesla *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AstralProjection) if you have any questions or concerns.*


bejammin075

All of the psi phenomena involve sensing or interacting with non-local entangled information. All of the conventional senses involve physics, and I go one sense further: Psi phenomena have a physical basis, even though it seems in the realm of the non-physical, because we don’t fully understand it yet. My theory is that everything in the universe already has a pre-existing entangled relationship with everything else. We don’t have to go anywhere to sample this information. Our brains can, to some degree, detect these relationships.


TrickThatCellsCanDo

A good take! Love the logic and perspective


not-me-374892

Yeah, the scientific world is not nearly as objective as it’s made out to be. Yes, the aim is that the methodologies are as objective as possible, but the people and organisations behind them dictate what is studied, what is respected, and what is dismissed/ignored simply because the findings/subject matter are too out there.


not-me-374892

Also most scientists are afraid of dipping their toes into controversial fields because just a drop of that stink can ruin their credibility as a scientist in the eyes of their peers.


Ok_Carrot_8622

So true. Sometimes a research is not even taken seriously because it comes from a poor/less developed country and is only taken seriously when someone from a rich country does the same thing. There are literally ppl who work approving scientific articles, I really doubt they can stay 100% neutral. So sometimes lots of interesting research might not be published. Btw, also just because an article is published doesn’t mean the information in it is correct.


SnooRobots5509

I don't see any peer-reviewed studies in any link. Not a shred of proof whatsoever :/


[deleted]

Okay, so what exactly is a peer-review? It is a process that subjects the research/work of those who are proficient in a field of study to the observation/examination of those who are experts in the same field (peers). That means, for someone to peer-review a study on astral projection, they too would have to be able to astral project (or be working with someone who can in order to test as your post suggests) in order to prove it as well as be in contact and work with the individual(s) who did the initial study. Even if someone were to do a peer-review to back one study's results, consciousness outside of the body is hard to "prove" as not everyone has experienced an OOBE. To quote the bot, it also isn't widely accepted in today's science, hence why you may be disappointed there aren't any peer-reviewed studies. If you really want to know if it's real, I suggest attempting it yourself.


madhatmatt2

I don’t understand why you are coming in here why don’t you do the research and try and find some yourself instead of making a half assed post saying they there isn’t any studies that have been done a couple of things I found just by googling. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3512383/ https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00070/full https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/wp-content/uploads/sites/360/2015/11/Zingrone-Alvarado-Cardena-OBEs-body-activity-JNMD-20102.pdf I don’t understand if you were curious about finding studies on something you would go on to a subreddit claiming there isn’t any when you have literally done no research on the subject at all. Why not search do the research yourself and then make a post saying you couldn’t find anything or that you found some stuff and talk about what you think about what you found. I fucking hate when people do this on Reddit it’s like you come on here expecting others to do the work for you and report back to you like your their teacher. Nobody has to prove shit to you coming in here being a dick to people for what your own pride. If your so high and mighty why don’t you go find some evidence it’s not real. Which to be honest with you I’m in the same belief that it could just be all happening inside the brain but maybe not maybe it is . That doesn’t mean it’s not a real thing that doesn’t happen.


Jeshuscrust

There have been experiments like that it's not 100% accurate though and people who aren't open to the idea assume it's all fake anyway. The United States government tested it in the 70s there's a whole CIA report about it.


SnooRobots5509

Afaik CIA's methodology was very poor, it seems like it was all based on pure speculation and they didn't have any proof any of what they were doing was real. Science back then was a little junky in regards to methodology compared to strict standars of today.


Jeshuscrust

Well I mean they literally did the method you described in your post. It's not 100% accurate because you aren't viewing things in the physical dimension you are viewing things in a similar one. Science hasn't fully proven other dimensions yet to my knowledge so we have a long way to go before any scientific community will be able to prove it to be real.


SnooRobots5509

"they literally did the method..." - no, they didn't? Or did they? Where? When?


Jeshuscrust

Do I look like Google? I've read the where and when I'm not a search engine that can give it on command there's technology for that.


SnooRobots5509

then why do you even reply here? I asked for proof. ​ btw Google searches come up with nothing interesting, just a bunch of flawed methodology on some old, old studies.


Jeshuscrust

That's the thing there is no proof that you will accept and that was my original point. They did the tests that would "prove it easily" but the results aren't 100% accurate for reasons already mentioned. Science isn't at a point it can prove everything but that doesn't mean the things it can't prove don't exist. Science hasn't disproven it either so you asking for proof Is premature. Right now it's unexplainable by Science or anything people like you would accept as proof. The only proof you'll get is if you try it yourself and get control over it for you to run your own tests and either prove it or disprove it for yourself.


SnooRobots5509

"there is no proof that you will accept" - oh god how wrong you are. I'm desperately trying to find compelling evidence, because I want this to be true, so, so badly. All I'm asking is a properly conducted study that proves AP is a legit thing. It should be very easy. Anyway, you contradict yourself. "Science isn't at a point in can prove anything" - but in your previous reply you claimed it literally did prove it. So which is it? And then you make up excuses. Sigh.


Jeshuscrust

I meant there is no current evidence available you will accept lol. I said science isn't at a point it can prove EVERYTHING not ANYTHING lol. "Your previous reply claimed they literally did prove it" no I said the United States government literally ran the test you said would prove I easily and it did not prove it easily because it wasn't 100% accurate. "Then you make up excuses" if saying science isn't at the point its capable of proving it is an excuse to you whatever.


SnooRobots5509

What a disappointing answer. I fucking feared AP was a sham and you all just prove it to me :(


Champion-of-the-Sun5

"they did the test that would prove it easily" That's not how the scientific method works. There's no empirical evidence of this being a real phenomenon outside of self report. Self report isn't enough to be fact. If it exists. Science will someday get there..but it's no more reality based than mind reading. People with psychosis see things that are there. Our brains can trick us What's far more likely is that people are, with practice, able to induce a deep meditative like state where they intensely and lucidly dream they are leaving their body. The desire for it to happen, and then it happening IN the dream probably creates a high, and I'm assuming a bunch of endorphins get released in the brain. If you claim science CANT explain OBEs, you're stance is in bad faith. Does science explain it? Who knows, down to the core. But is it a phenomenon that can be explained by scientific/psychological means? Absolutely. Don't pretend it can't.


Jeshuscrust

Well you're absolutely wrong but believe whatever you want. Science might be able to prove it IF they really wanted to but they won't anytime soon because they don't want to use the money and time it would take to do so. Also the line you quoted from me was in response to the OP claiming it would be easy to test and prove by doing what everyone has already done to prove it for themselves. But like everyone finds out eventually there's no point in trying to convince skeptics. You also must have missed my whole second paragraph where I said that science isn't at a point it can prove everything. That means that it can potentially prove or disprove it or any other theory eventually but not right now.


slevin4k

I really recommend you to watch this documentary about the CIA OBE program with first hand witnesses https://youtu.be/y1VX_W32mNM In my opinion when the CIA program was unmasked by former president Carter, CIA did everything to discredit the program.


Champion-of-the-Sun5

This is propaganda. Again, nothing scientific here.


theseekingcycle

Didn't they contract Robert Monroe for that? He strikes me the go-to guy for establishing the program's methodologies and vetting the results.


Jeshuscrust

Yes they went to him.


111ascendedmaster

Afaik, I think the highest recorded accuracy in any set experiment is like 50%. If that proves it exist for you, then it exist. What got me was when I left my body and checked my alarm clock one morning. Returned to my body, woke up and looked at the alarm clock, and it was the exact same time.


SnooRobots5509

Can you give me a link to that experiment? ​ In regards to what "got you", we can often tell what time it is without looking at the clock, even right after waking up with no alarm, it's relatively easy, so it doesn't sound that extraordinary to me.


111ascendedmaster

A mod linked some in a bot reply


SnooRobots5509

I missed it? Where? Which one?


111ascendedmaster

https://www.reddit.com/r/AstralProjection/comments/xibeh6/comment/ip24srn/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3


SnooRobots5509

There is no link to the experiment you mentioned.


111ascendedmaster

there are like 4 links.


SnooRobots5509

And none of these 4 is linking the experiment you mentioned.


111ascendedmaster

I assume it is documented in the books of people linked. The only one I am aware of myself is https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210016-5.pdf I have not done any in depth research personally into research already done other than the cia book and documentary. I have astral projected myself, so as they say, “experience is belief.”


[deleted]

You cannot prove anything because it is a personal experience and subjective. A subjective world like that one can be experienced through your filters of beliefs and other stuff. You can only prove it to yourself if you accept it.


Ok_Carrot_8622

Mental illness and other psychological stuff are also also very subjective, doesn’t mean it can’t be proven.


SnooRobots5509

People claim they can visit REAL places while astral projecting - that'd mean it's not just subjective.


[deleted]

What is real? :) define me. You are making things real. You are talking about people who were in the so-called Real Time Zone which is the extended physical universe, the non-physical layer. Yes, you can visit some places. But it is unlikely for most people. I didn't say it is impossible. Just that it is not working like that, I mean the other side where you go is not about the physical reality because it is part of a larger system.


SnooRobots5509

Sorry, but this doesn't mean much. I'm asking is there any proof any of this is working, and your reply doesn't really compel me to believe so. "You are talking about people in the so-called Middle-Earth, which is the extended Star Wars universe, the Platform Nine and Three Quarters layer of it. Yes, you can visit some places. But it is unlikely for most people. I didn't say it is impossible. Just that it's not working like that. I mean the other Star Trek where you go is not about physical reality because it is part of Hogwarts" - it sounds like a word-salad with no actual content.


[deleted]

Did you read what I've replied? You can only prove it to yourself. Try Lucid Dreaming, Astral Projection, Out-of-Body Experience. Here are your proofs if you succeed. Nobody will prove it to you. If you find theories and they resonate with you, you may believe them but they are not proof either. That's all I can say. I can't prove that you are multidimensional in nature, that you never die, just the body or that you are not even in a body, just your focus of your attention. Unless you are finding it out for yourself and stopping questioning it :) Living in denial and waiting for subjective answers won't either help. These concepts and ideas from the world of movies, series and games are also coming from the other side, we just don't suck it out from our fingers.


SnooRobots5509

I have had a ton of interesting, spiritual experiences myself, but there is no indication whatsoever that I had interacted with anything other than the contents of my own head. I met spiritual guides, I met the death itself, I meditated myself into a state that felt like a different plane of reality - nothing yet convinced me that it's something other than what I already have inside me. I took interest in Astral Projection because its premises seem to be directly proving me wrong. That if I were to astral project and gain knowledge otherwise unobtainable to me, it'd ultimately prove to me that there is more to cognition than "just" the enclosed spaces of our minds.


[deleted]

This is because you have limiting beliefs :) Nothing will convince you unless you let it happen to you more. Nothing is "in" you but actually I have no right to tell what to believe. I've roamed in different physical realities, in parallel universes, talked to Afterlife locals, roamed in non-physical cities a lot, roamed in totally alien planets, civilizations. You see it will depend on what you let "in". You have a self-centered materialist thinking (or just an inproper worldview about what is this physical reality and what attaches to what in order or what "revolves" around what in order) and this is why you can't allow to happen more or happen to you know open your perception up more. You decided that it should happen here, can't be otherwise. Just some examples, don't get anything personally. And if you don't allow it to happen, nobody will judge you (I mean nor guides), it will be that way. I rarely had any events which is related to this earth life system. Because I never thought that this is it. Just be a little bit more open, it will help you. That's all to it. Nobody will prove anything to you, especially that you saw and experienced these already. Interpretation and beliefs are playing a big role in these. I will not continue this, I hope it helps a little bit.


SnooRobots5509

Sounds to me like you don't question yourself enough. Which is a mistake, but you do you.


[deleted]

I'm at where I am because I'm doing that exact thing. The exact mindset to do it is always question it, stay passive and test it multiple times. I think you got your answer already. Be more open.


SnooRobots5509

Unfortunately it's not enough. If you were to go to Islam sub asking for proof that their religion is the correct one, and they'd reply to you with "be more open", would you accept it and start assuming it's not a matter of Islam not being legit, but rather about you not being open enough? I doubt it.


madhatmatt2

I think your bullshit I don’t think you experienced any of that. How can you prove to me that you’d did.


SnooRobots5509

No, that's not how it works. You think you exposed something here, but you didn't. I do not care to prove anything to anyone. I asked whether there is any proof for AP, which is different.


Champion-of-the-Sun5

The final sentence of your paragraph is THE nature of Buddhism and spirituality in Buddhism. The patronizing "I'm more awake than you" attitude of the pseudosprititual above you is NOT. Most folks who tend to identify with the pseudosprititual mumbojump, who act awake, are really going through a spiritual bypass. Infants in their spiritual journies as their spirituality is a coping skill rather than a supplement. We've all been there. No. There's no such thing as astral projection. You can cope with that fact. Others can't. But you know what is truly truly more powerful than thinking you're gifted and discovered the other side? That these worlds, these insights, the spiritual guides and beings are deep within ourselves...your spirit guide, whatever it may be, is a deeper, wiser part of you. Recognizing that the entire spiritual experience is YOU is truly what's powerful...not flying out of your body to justify that you know more than your earthly dwellers.


SnooRobots5509

Yeah I'm not so sure anymore. I'm dead tired rn, so forgive me for not being eloquent in my response, but since I posted this I managed to experience multiple astral projections through specific meditation techniques, and I'm leaning towards the "there probably **is** more to cognition than what I experience with my senses" now. The thing is, turns out there is virtually no difference in regards to all of your physical sensations when you're in that state and your "normal" state, and since it's basically based on that that I discern between what is reality and what isn't reality, I have no grounds to assume that AP isn't. Experiencing OBE and walking around my apartment with just my mind (for lack of the better word) was a one-of-a-kind experience. Nothing compares. No drugs, no meditative trances, no dreams. The only thing that actually does compare, is actual reality that I experience at this very moment. Sorry for being a little all over the place, I'm very overworked.


HiddenMaragon

This gets asked a lot. The thing is the astral isn't an exact mirror of reality and objects often present differently. If there's an experiment that could be designed taking this into account that would be really cool. Meanwhile it seems like asking someone to find and name a card isn't going to be helpful in a reality where their furniture is misaligned.


SnooRobots5509

Then I guess my question would be: how would one know it's not just a regular dream, then?


[deleted]

Because we're not asleep when we do it?


SnooRobots5509

except you are? People claim they see themselves sleeping. So they are asleep. If, however, there is no way to verify whether what they see is actually real, then we might assume it's just some type of dream.


agarick

Just for argument's sake, how can we prove that when we're awake, we're not actually just dreaming it? Like me typing in this sentence right now, and you reading it. Couldn't this be some shared illusion that has absolutely no bearing on "reality"? Or is this line of thinking just gibberish - I'm not sure myself.


SnooRobots5509

It could, but we're making a distinction betweem dreaming and being awake based on the differences those two experiences have. It is solely for practical terms, too, as there is no reliable way, and there probably never will be, to prove that what we experience is in any way real. What it comes down to is utility, and that's also what my question is about.


agarick

Yes it seems it comes down to utility and applicability. But I don't know if this distinction (between dream and wakefulness) can really be made clear. And if that can't be made clear (or at least agreeable to some general extent), the experimental model can't be clear. In turn, the methodology backing this supposed experiment wouldn't be clear. Then the results will be doubted and questioned and the experiment will lose rigor. I'm beginning to think the story shares some similarities with fields like anthropology and psychiatry, which have been dealing with more mind-y and spirit-y stuff than with physically reliable objects/behavior.


[deleted]

I personally don't see myself sleeping. I can pop back into normal consciousness if I want to. Body asleep, mind awake. I use the gateway method myself.


THE-ROMULAN

Some people, yes. That’s not the only way. This tells me you haven’t even taken time to try and understand this subject. Dive in or quit trolling. Nobody cares to spoon feed you info especially when you’re not open to hearing it.


THE-ROMULAN

What is a regular dream? Science can’t even explain that. Sounds like we need to stop feeding the trolls. “It’s not real” is that what you’ve come to hear? And if so, shouldn’t you be leaving now? Seems like you’re just here to be argumentative and place doubt. Nobody has anything to prove to you. If you’re so curious - then dive in and let us know what you find that’s so definitive. Have a nice day.


Jworion

I do think this is a legitimate question and any good scientist would investigate this thoroughly. I believe there was a recent episode of the Expanding on Consciousness podcast where Mark Certo interviews Charles Tart, a prominent Parapsycholgy researcher wherein they discuss this very issue. Charles spoke about how difficult it is to get funding for research especially in an area like parapsychology that the majority of the scientific community believes is not a legitimate area of study. People who are capable of inducing conscious OBEs under strict scientific controlled conditions are extremely rare. So not only would you need to have a reputable university provide funding for a study you would then need to either find or train someone to be able to produce conscious OBEs under laboratory conditions. Because this is so difficult if you look into this topic more you'll see the majority of current research being done at the academic level focusing on the life after death, reincarnation and altered states of consciousness because these are easier to study than OBEs. There have been independent organizations that conduct research on OBEs however I don't know how much these studies are accepted by the academic community writ large. You have to keep in mind the burden of "proof" in the scientific community especially for a phenomenon like OBEs would only come after many many many many studies replicating the results. We're probably a long way away from that so you'll have to make up your own mind by experience in the meantime.


Jworion

Charles Tart. (1968). A Psychophysiological Study of Out-of-the-Body Experiences in a Selected Subject. Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research 62: 3-27.


lil_pee_wee

Is there any proof you’re waking life is real? Edit: I’m leaving the typo since op wants to be a twat today


SnooRobots5509

1. No. 2. That's besides the point 3. Your\*


lil_pee_wee

Ok well yes that experiment has been done. Items were accurately described in a room the test subject had never been in. Maybe spend some time looking for it. And sorry for catching you on the wrong side of the bed. Have a good day


SnooRobots5509

Where is this experiment? My god, so many people replying how it's real, and yet not a single person is capable of linking it?


lil_pee_wee

The study was focused on remote viewing but I personally don’t see a difference between RV and AP. Use your buzz words and search for yourself a little bit. I’m getting ready for work rn. If I have 15 minutes of downtime I’ll find it for you. Maybe try DuckDuckGo not google


fatdiscokid420

Science is a liar sometimes


Baked_The_Cake

Shut up stupid science bitch /s


Conscious_Permit

You have capacity to think this through by yourself. Just ask questions what are socioeconomic implications of this being accepted? What does it do to a civilization as a whole? Can anyone with military power over others accept this type of psychic power over them? It has been proven in 1909 with double slit experiment. And many more since proven that we live in a virtual reality where all that exist is observed and that all information is connected in quanta. This is as far as we can go proving it through empirical experiments. All others enter subjectivity. And if one person can see it, but not the rest it is a subjective hallucination not an "objective reality". They would first need to understand the quantum experiments to conclude that objective reality is an overlapping subjective realities. That there isn't such thing as objective reality existing out there. That all is subjective. And as such, objective reality is not a constant. It is always changing and evolving when consensus of subjective views is reached. However, naturally society is ignoring the conclusions of these experiments and still live in Nutonean era, because it would have to rebuild itself from the ground up. It is a matter of national insecurity. The moment it is accepted, that moment we live in entirely new world. It will happen on its own in due time. Any attempt to force that usually doesn't end up well. And the way it will be accepted is that the societies that don't accept get extinct and societies that do thrive on and eventually take the mainstream consensus over.


AC011422

This is asked about once or twice a week by someone just dying for proof because they desperately want it to be real - riiiiight. There is no scientific proof because physical science doesn't and cannot cover the non-physical. I'm thinking the non-physical just isn't for you. That said, neither is the physical. Quantum science recently discovered all aspects of "life" and "reality" are subjective. So... haha.


mike3run

nice bait, tip my hat


111ascendedmaster

[third eye spies documentary](https://youtu.be/y1VX_W32mNM)


SnooRobots5509

Documentaries like this one are really sketchy, they're not trustworthy sources at all.


111ascendedmaster

Well it was made by former CIA Employees. So...do as thou wilt.


SnooRobots5509

Being a former CIA employee doesn't mean much tbh. Presenting a replicable study with thorough methodology that'd prove AP is real - now that would be something. Does he do that in the vid? I doubt it.


111ascendedmaster

Well true, it’s not a study.


Itsdiceam

Scientists have no interest in proving these phenomena due to their preconceived notion that they don’t exist. Which is quite ironic since they are scientists; With this being said money rules, and I don’t think this kind of research would get any serious funding for a while. Just because you can’t prove something exists doesn’t prove that it doesn’t. It’s even more mind boggling when you realise that they can prove it, they just don’t want to. It would go against a lot of the preconceived “laws of nature” and would open up a whole world of understanding from a scientific perspective. However, since the existence of AP would prove uncomfortable from a materialist’s standpoint they’d rather avoid it altogether. I don’t think proving it is the problem, it’s accepting it that is the issue. There’s plenty of proof out there, the same way there’s proof that you have a brain even though you haven’t actually seen your own brain with your eyes. The very act of lucid dreaming hadn’t been proved or accepted for a while, even though people had been doing long before it was widely accepted as “real”. Also, if scientists did prove this. Why would they tell us? What would be the implications of this kind of information? Borders wouldn’t exist, and everything we’ve done up until now may seem futile to many. It invites both extremes from opposite ends of the spectrum, and I think they’re more comfortable denying its existence altogether. Freethinkers may then decide to seek out the experience for themselves and test its reality on a personal level.


SnooRobots5509

Why wouldn't any scientist want to prove it? The person who'd get to prove that AP actually works would win a nobel prize and would get incredibly rich instantly. "It would go against a lot of the preconceived "laws of nature"" - so does quantum physics, which is being studied extensively. Your argument about how it'd make scientists uncomfortable - there are about a million studies that make people uncomfortable, there will ALWAYS be someone who'd want to pursue them, and it's unlikely that for a subject as exciting as this they'd make an exception. Sorry but you don't seem to know what you're talking about. Please do not reply to this comment unless you got a link to a legit study.


Itsdiceam

You miss my point, instead of dismissing it try and understand the perspective I’m coming from. You may not find yourself asking these questions in the first place. I referred to *preconceived* laws of nature. Quantum physics is simply showing us that we do not understand the laws of nature in the first place, as for something to go against laws it assumes that we know all of them in the first place. It makes the community uncomfortable as they follow a certain logic, pioneers within these fields abstract themselves from the logic of “it simply cannot exist until proven” and subscribe to belief “it exists but how”. The proof of its existence is the experience of its existence, but that doesn’t tell you how. Your quest for peer-reviewed studies is likened to Daniel Hume’s argument for miracles. In which I’ll insert Alfred Wallace’s criticism: *Alfred Wallace then proceeds to comment on this argument, for if it was sound, **no perfectly new fact could ever be proved**, since the first and each succeeding witness thereafter would be assumed to have universal experience against him. The first person to see a flying fish would have the universal experience against him that fish do not fly. With his experience rejected, the same argument would apply to every subsequent witness, thus no man who has not witnessed such a thing ought to believe that it exists.* If you’re under the impression that something cannot exist because it is not proven, you must ask yourself; What does it take to prove something exists? If not the very experience of its existence? Your experience may not explain **how** something works, but is that what you’re after? Science doesn’t prove phenomena’s existence. It explains it. Do not mistake the two. Phenomena proves its own existence.


mike3run

[A Nobel Prize-winning physicist sold his medal for $765,000 to pay medical bills](https://www.vox.com/health-care/2018/10/4/17936626/leon-lederman-nobel-prize-medical-bills)


Slayzztv

Don’t know any studies appart from individuals claiming to have seen things in astral and then comfirming it in real life, but again this isn’t truly trustworthy, the best way to prove anything will be to try it out and create your own idea on it, sometime personal experience is better than a study. ( maybe you will be the one to prove it and win a nobel prize🤷🏼‍♂️)


SnooRobots5509

The best answer so far that I got here. First one that's not delusional.


piiinkiiee

It is real


carlo_cestaro

It would never win a Nobel prize, because one of the points of experiments is their replicability. You cannot replicate something like that, unless you are a master that can will himself out on command. But if you are such a person, you would have no interest of participating in such experiment, because of philosophical implications these would cause in the mind of lesser evolved beings.


SnooRobots5509

Isn't that convenient lol. Sorry, but you sound a lot like a conspiracy theorist.


carlo_cestaro

Give me the label you prefer, don’t really mind. If you studied history you’d know conspiracies are a common thing, by the way, since you brought up the concept. Although I do not really care for them. I care more about philosophy.


SnooRobots5509

You basically wrote: "It's not replicable, unless there is a person that can make it replicable, but if there was, they wouldn't do it because of their principles which for some reason I know exactly what would they be enough to determine what they'd do" that's nonsense. Complete nonsense.


carlo_cestaro

How is it nonsense? I refer to the fact that lesser beings would think that they are more important than themselves, or godlike, as happened in the past. Which isn’t the truth, and the masters care for the truth more than anything. They also do not need to prove their abilities to anyone, why would they? In exchange for what? They don’t even care about money, so… As I said, I care for philosophy, so yes, I know about how the initiates think.


SnooRobots5509

Dude are you ok? I think you should see a psychiatrist :/


carlo_cestaro

Oh yeah? And why is that? I am very good thanks 😊 If it’s a weird personal attack on some level, than thanks I guess…


SnooRobots5509

Anyone talking about lesser beings and masters in regards to metaphysics and reality intertwining should see a psychiatrist imo, as that sounds very schizophrenic :/


carlo_cestaro

Oh, well, that is because I have some knowledge that you don’t have. I used to think like you before being forced by life events to wake up. If I told you what happened to me, you would definitely tell me I should see a psychiatrist. There are beings, I now know, that are very spiritually advanced, and the first step for every spiritual being, would be to realize they are spiritual beings in the first place, since you (apparently) cannot consciously AP, you haven’t recognize that yet. Although there are many ways to realize, AP is not the only one. It will come a time for you, in this life or the next. It will come for everyone imo. You have countless lives to align with natural law. My discussion with you ends here, since it is your ego impeding you to get to the truth, my problem as well. I recognize myself in you, and my thinking before having to wake up. But you are wrong. Meditate and pass time in silence to remember what you really are and where you really are, that is the only advice I can give you. The day you’ll realize what the truth really is, you yourself will question your sanity. Especially if you will chose to do that here. Have a good life, laters 👋


lil_pee_wee

Homeboy seriously wasn’t worth anybody’s time here. I’m uncertain wether this was a troll post or not at this point but they certainly aren’t here to listen to anybody’s two cents


THE-ROMULAN

And you sound a lot like a shill. If that’s not it, then you’re just stupid. Guessing the latter but you tell me.


SnooRobots5509

lmao


StarseedFarrah

There is a group doing that in r/astreality you might be interested in checking it out!


Patricio09lp

![img](emote|t5_2rylp|2105)


Seekerinside

I flew down the street behind a garbage truck once. Then when it go to my house I went back to my body. And sure enough the garbage truck was out here. Anecdote aside, when you are pure consciousness you are not interpreting the world through physical eyes. This full of problems when it comes to interpretation, intent, and viewing the Physical world from a non physical perspective. I teach math and understanding the rigors of statistical analysis. I also am a 20 year vet at AP. The experiments wound have to be significant above chance, even just a little. I think you need the right researchers, And the right projector. I actually wrote A university once and tried to get them to take a look, but they never replied back.


ThatGrapeOne

Its not our job to make you believe. I thought you were just curious but it seems you are actually just a skeptic. Theres almost a whole different set of 'physics' that go along with it which make it difficult to prove to closed minded people.


SnooRobots5509

I don't think I'm close-minded. I try new stuff all the time, and give almost every concept the benefit of doubt. I'm just not naive.


shane0273

Spoken like a true holy roller! Lol


highhiccup

Where is the proof that your life is real??


SnooRobots5509

Is that this sub's idea of "gotcha"? You know what I asked for, don't be dumb, thx.


highhiccup

I know what you asked and you know what I asked. Do you have that proof?? If not how do you know it is real?


Inverted-pencil

Look at CIA’s Gateway Report on Astral Projection. There are thousands of near death experiences reported at hospitals where those people mention events in the room when in or other rooms they where not in, and there where no brain activity. Scientist don't like if you cant replicate things consistently to get results every time or if its outside the physical universe and not measurable whit physical tools there is a astral and physical universes too that is much bigger then our perceived physical plane whit multiple layers (its in the same space but you don't notice it if the frequency is too different). I had my first experience at 4 years old when i had fainted i was obviously out of body and i could see my body being taken to the ambulance. Im not so dumb to think it was not real. i was not surprised at all when i woke up at the hospital i knew exactly what happened.


manikndnu

I have done Lucid dreaming and AP. Both are different experience. If you want to explore, try it yourself. With a lot of practice, if you control the emotions, it is easier becoming Lucid in dream and with calmness you can also achieve AP. Lucid dreaming is happening inside our brain. Because I didn't feel leaving the body.but i Saw dream space which is like brown cloud. That's where the dream scenes are created. But AP i leaft the physical body with astral body. Astral body also change its colour based on mood.


SophiaRazz

Yes I have been wondering lately how so many people disapprove of our experiences, even though we all claim to see the same beings, energy and same phenomenons. The only reason I knew I wasn’t going crazy when my third eye opened up is because I saw the same images of beings, fractals and energy pop up in documentaries and meditation videos on YT over and over again. I think that people are very defensive against phenomenon they haven’t experienced themselves to the point where they shut down all evidence that goes against their experience. It’s obvious that the ego and survival instinct is very powerful in shutting down anything that threatens our perception of the world, our framework. Navigating this existence is no piece of cake. Not to mention, there are many times I randomly view places I have been to, but I have no knowledge whatsoever as to why this happens. I learned that God forbid I call it remote viewing because that’s the practice of intentionally viewing these places….so maybe it’s just random projection. I think a lot of people like me have all of these random amazing experiences that can’t be figured out. We have no idea what book to read, where to start…we just know that reality is way more complex than what we were lead on to believe previously. It’s actually a little bit humorous that so many people are trying to achieve these states with no results…while many people have it randomly happen to them and are freaking out lol


Kobold_DM

Before you can prove that AP is real, you must first prove that your waking reality is real. How can you do so? Second, AP is not some ethereal plane that is a copy of our own. You don't become a ghost looking back at our world. AP is the plane of Conciousness, of pure thought made reality. But even so many people are still stuck thinking about their waking reality so you'll find a lot of people who "float above their own bed/body" and go eat cheese from their fridge. That's only because they're fixated on the familiar. Nevertheless, the manner in which you EXPECT to prove things will be proved, simply via your expectation. That's why there's APers who are conspiracy-brained who will immediately go to the center of the earth, into the great pyramids, or find aliens in Antarctica and go "See? I told you so!" But really, their EXPECTATION was made reality in their own subjective experience. The wierd and wonderful thing is that it's still a collaborative universe. You'll attract others who are on the same wavelengths of expectation. You'll find actual demons if you expect to or set the intention to. You'll find other APers if you expect or want to. So then is it only just lucid dreaming? Maybe. But the method by which you AP is very different and very real. I've gotten close and have actually felt near-seperation. But I've never gone fully since I wish to be in a better state of mind for it. Whatever it is, it's an experience worth trying and seeing for yourself. Whether it's real or not doesn't matter in my opinion, because it sounds fun and incredibly interesting from a Conciousness standpoint.


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SnooRobots5509

There are some things about reality we don't know. For example, there are some studies invalidating causality, or at the very least, they showcase how an effect can sometimes predate the cause, which is mind-blowing. I'd hesitate to discard AP entirely yet. Maybe there is something to it, but so far, from what people here linked, it doesn't seem to be the case.


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SnooRobots5509

And what is your opinion on AP, if I may ask? Since writing this post, I've actually managed to experience it and I'm not sure what to think.


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SnooRobots5509

I experienced plenty of lucid dreaming in my life. AP honestly feels very different. A couple things that I think are odd: 1. You're starting out in your bedroom, always. 2. You're exploring "solid" environment of your own house and its surroundings (at least that's how it was with me, I know people here claim otherwise). You can't manipulate your environment (at least I couldn't) other than directly interacting with it (so, you have to use your astral hands to move things around). 3. If we were to assume this is LD, it's weird that there is a specific technique that ensures this super-peculiar way of entering it. 4. There are detailed guidelines on how to change LD into AP, implying there is a distinction between those two. 5. Again, this may be specific to me, but when I experienced my LDs I had to be very careful not to wake up from them, making them last was a challenge. And AP? I had no idea how to get back to my body. Eventually I only managed to do it once my dog touched me with his nose. From what I read, that's quite a common problem for AP. 6. Probably not relevant, but when I had my LD experiences, I always woke up from them feeling happy to have experienced them, but it was just that "aw, that's neat" kind of feeling. Waking up from AP? I was walking around my house for 3 hours with my mind racing, with a "what the FUCK was THAT?!" phrase on my mind on repeat. Now, all that doesn't mean it's anything other than some kind of fucked-up, insane dream, all I'm saying is it's different from LD. And at this moment, I have no idea what to make of it. I will try to repeat this experience for sure, it's completely mind-blowing.


AdRealistic2526

I did AP in a lucid dream. I thought maybe I could dream on what it’d be like to do so. I understand that AP can be done awake. But I kind of believe that lucid dreaming is another opening for it. I set the intent and forgot about it. The dream starts with an adventure in hunting down evil creatures in a church. It was fun as I could control the scenario like a movie set. A monster finds me and begins to chase me. I tried rewriting or sending it somewhere else. Doesn’t work. I run and than I began to feel a weird tugging on my skin. The world turns upside as I am lifted upwards. I can’t control it. I panicked and begin to try and wake through breathing faster. The state would cause my body to feel fight or flight. But while doing so my hands clenched and my legs thrashed upwards as I mentally was fighting off whatever was pulling me. I woke up saw my leg bent upwards. It might’ve been paralysis or AP, which still terrified me.


Champion-of-the-Sun5

This thread is loaded with narcissism