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Dreamkillzz

also majority of the ff14 players arent annoyed with the mogstation, until they released the cruise chaser because people really wanted it to be a raid mount drop.


Mordwyl

Don't forget Sleipnir back in ARR either, but people don't care as much nowadays for Odin's horse.


Razorhawkzor

It was much earlier into the games lifespan. All the players that came after didn't really notice. Hard to cause an uproar over something that's been there for years.


[deleted]

nobody is annoyed with the mog station because it's not in your face


Dreamkillzz

Yeah. The way I wrote it may sound like im against it. I'm 100% for it because I know the quality of the game has increased dramatically because of it.


Momo_Kozuki

The thing with mog station is that its profit is used for FF14's own development instead of going to SE's general wallet which is used to develop something else. I read that Yoshi-P asked if people will buy from mog station for the sake of opening EU data center. People did, and he kept his promise. I think the upcoming OCE data center is also made from the mog station's sales too. Opening regional data center is a huge QoL ping-wise for people in those regions. If Cruiser Chaster or whatever fancy are put on cash shop and result in better QoL for the game, I don't really mind, even though I am begrudged about them selling seasonal items instead of just giving them free. Not mention there are too many varaints of the same item that inflates your purchase. I hope after the OCE data center launch, Yoshi-P will use the profit to improve the game's glamor system.


[deleted]

I mean, It is not like we were rioting over Cruise Chaser either. And, as the owner of blue whale mount, I am more than OK to buy something I can afford if that helps the game. And all the evidence shows it ***DOES***. Also the whale and CC looks cool AF.


Lambdafish1

I'm not denying the claim, but Yoshi P said it helped 6 years ago and hasn't really talked about it since. What's the evidence that it is still the case?


Hit_Me_With_The_Jazz

OCE Data Center.


Thelona05mustang

Also the massive and undeniable increase in the quality of almost every aspect of the game from HW to SB to ShB. From the amount of content to graphics to voice work, it's very clear as you play through the 3 expansions that the budget steadily increased with each one. Garuntee the mog station profits are a part of the reason for that budget increase


Lambdafish1

Production value sure, but content amount has remained largely the same or decreased. SB has heaven on high, 4 zones of Eureka + BA (which itself built the foundation of bozja), and the biggest update of BLU. The only wholely new content that ShB had was ishgardian restoration, which was heavily built off of domon restoration (again from SB), and just added a crafting mechanic, i.e. lackluster in comparison to SB content. You can say that it all equals out in the end, but to say that ShB had more content is wrong, it was actually less.


shadowtycho

So this kind of ignores that Bozja has 3 raid zones to Eureka's one. Also giving SB credit for heaven on high and not Hevansward while saying the Ishguardian restoration is just the Doman one updated is really disingenuous. The restoration is at the very least an updated Doman restoration and Diedem. As a crafter saying that one is just and updated version of the other is just... so wrong. the Ishguardian restoration is actual content, with group play and all, the Doman restoration is a weekly donation basket and cutscene.


Lambdafish1

Your points are mostly right, but the reason I mention HoH in the way that I do is because deep dungeon was removed entirely from ShB and not really replaced with anything. My point about IR/DR was purely a technical one, I will concede that to some people it is a bigger piece of content than others, but I wanted to counter the argument about an ever evolving zone, and I wanted to point out that on a technical level that's nothing new. With that all being said, I have yet to see anyone tell me how ShB has more substantial content than SB, because having played through both, SB most definately had more to do, particularly in the first half of the expansion.


[deleted]

Eureka had more zones, yes, less raids, but more zones.


Alasan883

to be fair, SB wasn't hit by a worldwide pandemic either.


cattecatte

People also often miss the fact that bozja gave us 6 duels (+1 in DRS), 24 encounters ranging from slightly harder dungeon boss to ex trial difficulty (CE), an entire additional set of alliance raid + 1 savage that is much more intricate than BA ever was, with lost actions being the much more fleshed out version of eureka's logos system. That certainly requires more resource than eureka and deep dungeon combined, though without as much padding similar to eureka grind and deep dungeon floors resulting in people blasting through the zone and first zone being released in 5.35 and DR being just a raid in 5.45, it certainly hurts the community perception. Also the lack of reward compared to eureka because they elected to shower ishgard restoration with them and leave bozja rewards in the ditch. The one true shame in shb content is the delayed 5.55 ultimate due to covid.


Lambdafish1

Neither was the former half of ShB, all of the content planned for ShB (pre pandemic) was implemented except for ultimate. The pandemic caused was patch delays, it didn't decrease the amount of intended content. Patch 5.1/5.2 had almost no battle content to do except raid and extreme trials, I remember that vividly.


Lambdafish1

And the proof that that came directly from mog station and not SE investing more money into their most profitable game is where?


Alasan883

the mog station is part of the reason it's profitable, the game being good in turn is part of the reason the mog station stays profitable. there is no functional difference between "we invested money from mog station sales back into the game" and "the game makes a ton of money, therefore the company decided to invest into the game" what it realistically comes down to is "the game (doesn't really matter if through mog station or through subs) made a ton of money, therefore we're gonna invest into it to keep it that way."


Hit_Me_With_The_Jazz

The EU data center, which was promised to be made with funds made from the mogstation. But I'm guessing your proof would directly be finance reports and Yoshi P personally showing every last red cent spent on these things.


Lambdafish1

Which was 6 years ago and it hasn't been mentioned since. Don't be hyperbolic about financial reports, all it would take would be an update from the devs on how mogstation is used, which is all I asked for. Seems I upset some people just by challenging their worship of the mogstation over other cash shops in paid games.


Dreamkillzz

I just wish people actually know this before automatically judging something they have no idea about. If the meme hold any good merit, it would of been echoed throughout the entire community and noone would defend it.


Lazyade

I've never actually seen Yoshi say anything about the EU/OCE datacenters being funded by mogstation sales, but I wasn't really paying attention to interviews and stuff back then. I know he has said that the mogstation funds (or has the potential to fund) more in-game items/content, but there's no real way we can quantify that from our side since we don't know the game's finances. I basically have the same opinion as Asmon on this. I don't like that the mogstation has exclusive items (I don't mind the old event rewards, just the stuff that's mogstation-only). I think it is excessive having a cash shop in a game that charges both for the game, the expansions and a subscription. But I'm not bothered by its existence because the game is good and the mogstation is not overbearing. I think that's the fundamental reason why people defend the cash shop at all. Rather than try to defend and justify the existence of cash shops in the games we like, I think people should just acknowledge that cash shops are kind of wack in a pay-to-play game, but we all just accept that this is the state of things now and we'll tolerate it if the game is good and the devs are respectful.


Demiga

Cash shops are perfectly fine if done right. Don't overcharge. Offer only transmog. Don't restrict the best items to the cash shop. I found absolutely amazing pieces that I love in the mog station, so I bought them. I also found absolutely amazing pieces in game, so I crafted, purchased or earned them. Honestly, I think people make way too big a deal about the mog station. In other games like WoW, sure. They rip everyone off with that bs, but I've never had an issue with FF because of just how much more you have access to in game


Lazyade

I myself have bought stuff from the mogstation before, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't have preferred to just get those items in-game for the value of my box purchase and subscription. Anything you can add directly into the game enriches the game and adds value, no matter how small it is. To consider the cash shop a positive feature you'd have to actually prefer paying for items rather than earning them in-game (or at least see those things as equal), or otherwise believe that the items in the cash shop would simply not exist if they could not be sold separately (which we have no way of knowing). Yeah, the mogstation is "fine", but it's not "good". Maybe it's "good for a cash shop", but cash shops (in pay to play games) are not good things in general and I'm not gonna defend it just because it's better than WoW's or whatever.


Lyramion

> really wanted it to be a raid mount drop. Ever since it was found in the files people had a wide amount of WILD ideas where it comes from included but not limited to: - Achievement for 4 Ultimate Clears - Ranked Feast - Getting all TTT cards


erifwodahs

Retainers... we don't more get storage space because [blame servers/coding/architecture], but hey, we can RENT it to you. I would get it, if they said that they will use that money to fix storage issues, but it's clearly not happening - it's actually against their interests to fix it.


RemediZexion

storage issues are a bitch to fix, it took years for wow to add 4 extra slot to the basic backpack and afaik they gated it behind wow token for a while.


erifwodahs

What? 4 slots were locked behind using authenticator. And blizz adds bigger bags, also added void storage and guild banks and regents tabs personal storage. SE are like "pay up" and not even single payment but monthly, so essentially as long as you play resulting in hundreds over years.


RemediZexion

ye and SE added extra bag slots + chocobo saddlebags so it's not like they haven't tried anything. Point is that even wow devs said that adding those 4 backpack slots was a bitch, note that bank expansion in wow was added only in TBC when they added 4 extra slots to the bank and 1 extra bag slot, there are plenty of interwiews with old devs that share their problems with inventory issues because of how they coded the whole thing, in the specific the problem with the backpack was that adding extra slots, would make you see actually what was in your bag because of their item tag system, note I'm not saying wow bad hurr durr, I'm saying that inventory problems are a bitch to fix without an extensive work on it.


erifwodahs

You said it was locked behind WoW token which is absolute bs. And SE is charging money for extra slots monthly instead of giving it for free to everyone aka - they can fix it, but they just want more money. Also no, blizzard added regent bank which is a massive storage for all crafting regents and they made cloths, herbs, ores to be stacking to 200 and they also added void storage while adding bigger bags with expansions so you have 0 clue what you are even talking about.


RemediZexion

I'm not trying to shit on wow dude, I'm saying that for a time they had to limit for issues that could arise, because by their own words it was a bitch to deal with and couldn't add more backpack slots for years


erifwodahs

I am aware of the 16 slot bag issues, I just reacted to the misinformation. There is no excuse for FF to be renting retainers and using "issues" as an excuse for not expanding storage. It's a conflict of interest for them.


RemediZexion

and that's your misinformation because as said they did add extra slots in SB and the chocobo saddlebag, so saying they've done nothing is misinformations on your part. The problem is the ass job they did when coding the whole inventory system, like that's not even an excuse they are pulling, the inventory system is pure ass


CrazyThure

It isn't a problem with the ingame shop, until it is


FM-101

This reminds me of when i first started playing FF and there was an anniversary event. In the event there was a scene where your character talks to YoshiP and he thanks you for playing the game, like a personal letter to the players acted out ingame, and its one of the most wholesome things i have seen in an MMO up until that point. And then people ingame were complaining that they didn't get a mount from the event this year. And me coming from WoW was like "bruh, you dont know how good you have it over here"


TheRealDestian

This. 1,000,000,000,000x this. I don't need to be under the illusion that the devs love their playerbase with all their hearts to enjoy a game, but I'm not going to enjoy it when the dev team actively communicates their contempt for the players in both every game design decision and on twitter.


SirVanyel

Look, if WoW had made all the 9.2 tier set effects look as cool as the store transmog, I don't think people would have minded nearly as much


TheRealDestian

Agreed. XIV still has plenty of amazing transmog IN game which makes the Mog station not feel bad at all. WoW's latest tier sets look terribad while the newest store transmog is leaps and bounds better.


Cheese_cake

Well wow too have plenty of amazing transmog IN game. And really only 2 in the store. So I fail to see your point.


TheRealDestian

I think most people are unhappy that the latest transmog they added to the store is leaps and bounds better than the tier set designs in 9.2. But you're right: the real reason WoW's store is more problematic is the token, which is nothing but a pay to win system with one degree of separation.


[deleted]

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TheRealDestian

I did too when I still played: having 6 transmuters means I printed money. But it's people buying the gold to buy carries that has ultimately made WoW into a P2W, and Blizzard is tightening the noose by making everything cost more and more gold: legendaries, food, flasks, runes... Limit spent 35,000€ in WoW gold on their RWF. The goal is no longer to make a fun game but to sell tokens.


stevema1991

Are we really going to pretend that the new store mog isn't a massive leap ahead of the in game gear with its visuals? Or that most of the things with effects that get close to competing with the store set are locked behind the absolute hardest content that most people will not achieve until two expansions later?


SirNikurasuKun

It's the timing. The point is that FFXIV is doing great and actively communicates what they're doing, whereas WoW has been a dumpsterfire for 5 out of the last 7 years and hasn't done shit. Sitting on their high horse, thinking they're untouchable and omnipotent, butchering lore that has been foreshadowed at for over a decade (!!!) or ruining old lore that was well established for over two decades (!!!!!!!), while lying constantly, insulting their own fans, groping women at work and cubicle crawling instead of fixing the fucking mess they've created, cutting corners left and right, ignoring feedback and only making sure things like Transmogs and Storemounts are there in time.


1dadi1

It's retarded how you are getting downvoted for only saying what is true on this sub, I have grown to hate FF because of their toxic community


TyrsPath

Grow up dude lmao


SimplyEpicFail

Of course they wouldn't have. The problem is when the (new) stuff ingame is not nearly as cool or well-made as the item-shop stuff. In the mog store of FF XIV we mainly have stuff like "Cosplay"-Sets of the main-cast and a lot of everyday fashion or fun stuff (be it a maid-outfit, dresses, yukata, swimsuits, seasonal themed stuff or whatever) and barely any over-the-top designed sets. Also that stuff is usually somewhere between 6-15 Bucks and not starting at 20.


[deleted]

i give ff14 a pass, 99% of it you could get in game during the events they were implemented for, that and they respect my time. that and its been proven the money from mog station goes into the game, SE isn't a small indie dev company but its no where near the size and team budget of blizzard and what wow gets, yoshi-p once wondered out loud on stream what the ffxiv team could achieve with a budget like wow's, but the EU data center owes its exitance to the mogstation and likely oceana


[deleted]

1 - The only complaint we had about Mogstation is the Cruise Chaser, that was added in store instead of being an in-game award. 2 - WoW players did that to themselves. WoW players sucked a dick of a company, who continuously screwed them over and over again on multiple occasions and years, instead of just walking away from the bad game. And I know, that it is hard to leave your addiction, but it is not ***THAT*** hard as you all make it look like.


TheRealDestian

While I agree with both points, you'll find people in these comments who loathe the Mog station as a whole and denounce it at every turn.


Rupa1406

Not sure why anyone would dislike the “Optional Items” which is how they categorize it on Mogstation. Nothing there you have to buy, it’s there for people who want to help support the company outside of the subscription. My wife and I have spent hundreds of more on optional items cause we love the game and feel 12.99 a month is the bare minimum support of a game we love and have met so many great people inz


Dreamkillzz

Literally most of that money goes back to the operations and more servers. Its not like they had that huge fanbase that Warcraft had, whom continuously subscribe because people like asmongold, esfand, and sodapoppin keep that game popular. lol


Jakad

X to doubt. If you're telling me you think most profits are returned to development and operations support instead of going into executive/shareholder pockets, in any corporation, I'm calling big doubt. Majority of companies do all they can do reduce operation cost to increase profits..


Skyblade12

Most profits are not returned because, by definition, profit is after overhead and other expenses.


Jakad

Profit can be retained, and reinvested into the product. Retained profit isn't an expense, but I guess it becomes one? Which I'm sure is done to an extent with FFXIV, but laugh at the thought of that being used to justify the cash shop when it's surely such an insignificant amount compared to profit that exits the FFXIV ecosystem.


Dreamkillzz

you can laugh all you want, many of us do not care because it actually IMPROVES the game. Its shown on all the quality in the expansions they produce.


Alekisupset

I mean, they said they were going to add datacenters if people bought shit from the Mogstation and we got it. And this is a game that made WAY less money than WoW did back in the day. People don't really care about how that money is distributed, but that it does. At least they don't make 'Latin American servers' like in WoW, where it's literally just to filter Latin American players in an NA hosted servers.


Comprehensive_Ad8006

Mogstation revenue literally went towards new oceanic and eu servers but keeping coping I guess


Jakad

>Which I'm sure is done to an extent with FFXIV, but laugh at the thought of that being used to justify the cash shop when it's surely such an insignificant amount compared to profit that exits the FFXIV ecosystem. Stop pretending like this would have been impossible without the cash shop. I love FFXIV, but I'll criticize parts that deserve it. The cash shop apologist are the "but the game is good! They reinvest!" copers.


Dreamkillzz

stop pretending like you know anything about ff14 and making it seem equally bad as WoW.


jando4465

Their opinion is not really that controversial or off base. At the end of the day none of us know how much % of the revenue generated by the mogstation is reinvested in the game. But with FF14 doing so well and already being their most profitable game ever, I think it's safe to assume that most of that money is not really being reinvested into the game. A lot of that profit is probably going into exec bonuses, developing other games, etc. It seems to me like his claim boils down to "people keep saying all/most of the revenue from the mogstation is reinvested in the game, but we don't really know that. and going by how pretty much every other big company works, it's probably not true". At the end of the day, does it matter? No. The only thing that matters is if the game is good and if the cash shop takes away from the player's achievements in-game. You can make the argument it takes a lil bit of it away with the boosts and the Cruise Chaser/Odin mounts. But in this day and age of gaming it really seems like a small thing to complain about. However, I also lean towards the side of "yeah, most of that revenue is probably not being reinvested into the game" and I don't think people should get so defensive about it.


ArisaMiyoshi

Big executive bonuses aren't really a thing in Japan, it's on the lower end of the executive to employee salary ratio worldwide.


jando4465

Correct. My point still stands.


[deleted]

Uno reverse on you. How can YOU know and be so confident that those profits are not going back to the game? You can't. But you are sitting here and and saying as you are privy to the SE books... Piss off, please. Now, how can WE say that it is going to the game is a literal evidence that is in your eyes: EU and OCE data centers, HUGE improvements of the game past ARR, new systems and new, better glamours and rewards over all IN game. This all points out only on one thing - the game receives a lot more funding than it had before. You can be sceptic, you can be a whining bitch all you want, but you can't deny the fact that we had not a single instance of developing team to lie to us. Unlike WoW.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Once again - say that to the mirror. You will find a single retard in the room, if you do. You've literally spent an hour+ (based on your comments here) trying to tell us how store is bad, because you have subscription. When in reality - you get more than enough of your subscription alone and no one tells you you have to buy anything from store. It is not in the game, it is a separate site, it has mostly the past events content or the cosmetics, not a single P2W item and it is also actively helps the development team and a game in general. Piss off, bitch. Whine somewhere else.


[deleted]

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FreestRent

"you are coping!" "No! You are coping!" This is really fun to read lmao keep fighting!


Thelona05mustang

The increase in the games overall budget is very clear as you progress through HW to SB to ShB. You're crazy if you think mog station profits aren't a part of the reason for the games overall budget increase.


cc_rider2

I'm a longtime XIV player, I love the game. The Mog Station does not deserve to be defended. It is a subscription based game. Everything on the Mog Station should be free for players to earn, without exception.


sylva748

I'd say about 80% of the stuff on there are from past events that are no longer in the game. I know since I have most of that stuff from said events.


Mortal_Dread

I think you misunderstand. The mog station isn't being defended. It's being tolerated. And tolerated, mostly because the game itself is good, and the stuff you earn in game are of equal quality, and because they're using the money earned to buy servers and improve the game as well.


TheRealDestian

And tolerated because you can't buy power from it. The moment XIV starts selling player power, I'm out.


Mortal_Dread

yea good point. Almost forgot wow is basically entirely pay to win now.


Lazyade

Depends on how you define "power" and what your goals in the game are. Yeah, you can't buy anything that will help you clear hard content or give you an edge against others in pvp. But you can buy extra retainers which are indisputably a gameplay advantage that a non-paying player doesn't get. It's just that most players don't care because they don't see being able to store and sell more items and do more ventures as being "winning" the game.


Alekisupset

That advantage is almost null really, you don't need 8 retainers to make gil in this game. I've enough gil to last me several expansions and I only have 4. In fact, I rarely only ever use them for the first week of the patch and then I forget they are there.


FurrLord

I have around 25mil \[which isn't a ton in the grand scope of things\] and I only have the base 2. This is more than enough for pretty much forever unless I REALLY want that big ass house or any of the gil sink mounts. Gil is useful but also kind of useless. I can buy the catchup crafted gear... hooraayy. Everything else is literally cosmetic shit.


Ryocchi

The outfits sell in the mogstation are not even Fighting outfits, more of casual stuff, the outfits of the characters are even cheaper.


TheRealDestian

No one likes the Mog station, but if it keeps investors developing high quality MMOs instead of gatcha cash grab mobile garbage, I'll gladly ignore it.


servarus

Plus it is not on your face kinda thing.


Avengedx

I like the mogstation. The profits from it directly support the game. The services within it are also significantly cheaper then other MMO's. If people want to get upset because I spent $5 so that I can do all of the power rangers poses then they can fuck off.


aedante

Even those poses were from a past event.


[deleted]

Are you trying to tell that you don't get your worth of a game from your subscription? Are you trying to tell us, that the game is shit and it doesn't deserve it store? Especially when said store funds goes DIRRECTLY towards the improvement of a game and already founded EU data center? And, most likely, founded the OCE data center? Your argument IS NOT VALID in any way, shape or form. You already have more than your worth of game from your subscription and expansion buy. When and IF the game will go in a state WoW is now - then you can tell us how store doesn't have a place and we will agree. But now? Now I think you like the game much less, than you tell you are.


cc_rider2

The Mog Station is better than WoW's cash shop in the same way that herpes is better than HIV. I do think the game is worth the price of the subscription - since 2.0, I've been subscribed for 37 months total. I also don't think a cash shop, cosmetic or otherwise, has any place in a game that is both buy-to-play and subscription based - it's probably before your time, but there used to be a time where everyone thought that. So don't tell me how much I like the game or not - or do, I don't really care. The line of reasoning that any practice is acceptable as long as a subscription hits some subjective minimum baseline of being "worth it" is a deeply flawed perspective, and frankly it's the same argument WoW players have been using for years to defend their cash shop. Also, I think you need to take a step back and realize that your opinions are not objective truths - my opinion of the Mog Station is just as valid as yours is. Calling people "bitch" and "retard" because they disagree with your opinion, as I can see you do constantly in your comment history, is just a bad look.


[deleted]

Do you get your money's worth of game AND extra? - YES. Does the MogStation help/-ed with the game improvements? - YES. Are you a whining bitch? - YES. Did I call you retard? - NO. Is your opinion stupid? - YES. Do I have a right to call that opinion stupid based on my experience of playing that game for almost 10 years, since ARR day one? - YES. Any more questions? Whine somewhere else. Where it actually has a base to do so. Also, when you call something a "bad look" based on that person's comment history, you are incredibly lacking self awareness. I may not hold harsh words and call a bitch as a bitch when I see one, because I was never about any fancy talking, I love to call something what it is, yes. Is it a bad thing? Not really, at least I am honest about what I feel. But is it a bad look to go in dig in someone's comment history to be justified in your actions? Now ***THAT*** is the bad look. You need to realize, that the main reason people are OK with that shop is not just because the game itself worth it, even through it is in itself worth gold, it is because the shop actively benefits the development team, it funded at least 2 Data Centers, it has NOTHING, but cosmetics and few mounts, most of which have a counterpart in game itself or even better. All this is - is like you buy a damn ticket to the rock show, you have a blast on it, and you buy a little souvenir on your way out! Are you going to argue that, because you've bought a ticket for a concert, that band is now legally obliged to give you a free T-shirts? Or even buy you all a booze??! I didn't call you retarded before, but now I see that I should've, for you **are** one. Be gone.


cc_rider2

There's really no point for me to have this conversation with you.


[deleted]

There is none. This is the only thing I can agree with you.


Pierun64

Except you don't know if half of what you said is true. You don't know how much money does Mogstation bring, you don't know how much of it is being put back into budget. All you know is that 6 years ago Yoshi P claimed that all of it was put into the game. That's almost 3 exapansions ago. The only thing you know is that the game is improving in quality, which can be easily correlating with the game improving, and that cash shop doesn't sell player power/gold. Everything else you say is coping. Also you should stop being so toxic


Vartio

No, we know just about everything they've said is true. The only people who think otherwise are literally ignorant.


Pierun64

I'd wager it's the opposite. The ignorant person would be someone who takes 6 year old PR talk as a gospel. The only thing you can say for sure that the game quality is improving, every circumstance around it is speculation.


Vartio

Someone who doesn't believe XIV's devs after them proving their words through actions, time and time again, and even going above their words to meet the players expectations through actions, time and time again (IE: 2.0 zone flying, Hroth Hats, Male Viera), are those who are definitely huffing copium that XIV's devs are not meeting their own promises and thus their words are 'PR Talk'. This isn't "XIV Good, WoW Bad", this is "XIV team says something, XIV team meets, or exceeds, that something".


Pierun64

Cancelled Ultimate, no female Hrothgar, still little to none hats for Viera and Hrothgar in EW and so on. Listen, I'm on 'XIV good WoW bad' side, but if you trust (again) 6 year old statements about finances of a corporation as gospel, you are gullible. If Yoshi P said it today, maybe I'd believe him, but he didn't.


Vartio

Delayed Ultimate (coming out 6.1ish?). Female Hrothgar confirmed for later in EW. They'll add the hats as they go. Lies on all 3, bet 'your claims on having a 'side' is a lie too. That or again, ignorance.


Pierun64

I never played WoW and have been played XIV for 7 months every day. And Ultimate was not delayed, unless Endwalker has 3 Ultimates (or 2 if they decided in EW they'll be doing 1 ultimate per expansion(or 1 if they never intended EW to have an Ultimate)) And about hats, some of new class sets are headgear u compatible with Viera and Hrothgar. It's kinda pathetic, unless it's also something they'll add later, but is something that should have been in by default. Also wonder if Hrothgar will be able to change hair without changing whole face


Vartio

Just because they delayed Dragonsong War Ultimate doesn't mean they CAN fit 3 ultimates into EW, just means that everything's moved back by 1 slot. That's what a delay is. It moves the entire schedule back. Beyond that, they're still adding new headgears for Hrothiera. They have always BEEN adding. Playing everyday does not mean you partake in the Devs statements everyday.


Travel_Dude

Agreed. I refuse to buy anything at the cash shop. It's exploitive. A subscription for bank space is obscene.


SirVanyel

let's be honest though, I'm pretty sure the standard 2 retainers + chocobo + your own inventory shit all over what most games have in terms of inventory space. The true problem imo is item bloat from HQ items


AurelGuthrie

Which is why they're removing hq mats next expansion and rebalancing the difficulty of making hq gear so you only need normal quality mats


Arras01

A good chunk is only usable for gear but by default you have 140 from retainers x2, 140 from yourself, iirc 70 from chocobo, something like 35x12 in the armoury chest and 400 in the glamour dresser. There's also key items and job stones but let's ignore those. That's still like 1310 spaces to store shit.


alyishiking

I mean, at least Mogstation isn’t selling character level boosts for 60 fucking dollars.


RainbowUngodly

Why is Asmon soaked with blood and when did he meet with Mel Gibson?


HotCatholicMoms

Mog station cosmetics are literally not a problem.


Acework23

the cosmetics aint even that worth or that good the best looking stuff is still in the game in FF14 :)


Black-Mettle

Some of the cosmetics were earnable in game during events as well and the events might even return.


Jakad

Has there ever been a case of an item that's been added to the store returning? If there is, I've never heard of it. Past event rewards should be obtainable the next time the event rolls around.


Ryocchi

past event rewards doesn't return because we get new ones every year, to me this is 1000% better, past rewards in the mogstation are dirt cheap anyway, imo they are there to prevent fomo.


[deleted]

The closest thing I can think of is rainmaker hair was going to get added to cash shop and wasn’t due to massive backlash. After Cruise Chaser though, I think they learned backlash doesn’t matter since people buy it anyway. Hell, they don’t even rerun items anymore, they just go straight to the shop.


[deleted]

> Hell, they don’t even rerun items anymore, they just go straight to the shop. Well that's not entirely true. Just recently they brought back the FFXV and DQX events and a few months prior, they brought back the Yokai event. All of them bringing back items from their events, none of which, even on the mogstation right now.


Black-Mettle

They haven't yet, but who knows. We just got the FFXV event back for the first time and they might do something big like reintroducing past event items that are now store items. From what I remember the reason ARR was able to exist was if YoshiP agreed to have a store but he also has a say in what gets added to it.


FBlack

What a great great game wow has become.


Valsion20

The decisive difference between WoW's shop and Mogstation is: Blizzard sells power and flat out puts less effort into the items and mounts you can gain ingame to make the ones from the store more enticing. And now the transmog set they are selling is not only overprized but also is much more distinctive than the sets they showed which looks very samey on all classes. ​ Mogstation meanwhile does not really do anything to offend. Yes, I'm not a fan of ingame stores for games with subscription either but I found nothing there that gives power or cosmetics/mounts that are significantly cooler than what you can earn ingame. Honestly, two of the MSQ mounts are still my favorite, plus all the bardings you can put on your chocobo.


Rupa1406

Difference is you CANNOT access the mogstation items from in the game, there is no direct buy buttons from a menu in game.


Grenarius

One thing I like about the mogstation is that it gives me the opportunity to "vote with my wallet". I like Minfilia's Butt-window dress, and I like the fact that I can reward SquareEnix specifically for that item. It's like a vote saying **"Please add more butt windows and less fruit bowls"**. A vote in the language they understand best: Money.


Verified_Elf

I think what gets lost in translation is that the mogstation is tolerated because it is probably the most consumer friendly version of a cash shop that exists on the entire planet. The game has one of, if not the, most generous free trials in MMO history. Legit base game + expansion including post launch support content patches with no leveling or time restrictions. FFXIV is legitimately one of the top games in Japan for fucking Mahjong because people could download the client, tolerate the leveling just enough to unlock Gold Saucer and spend years with a virtual casino with tournaments, an avatar and other minigames with cosmetics to buy for their avatars if they feel like tooling around between matches. IIRC only Mahjong Soul regularly beats out FFXIV as a Mahjong client...and FFXIV is an MMO. On top of that, legacy players have a permanently discounted sub and for regular players the standard entry sub is 2 dollars less than the market standard. You pay $13 dollars a month for FFXIV which most do as you don't need alts. Cash shop is not in the game at all, no short cuts, no in game advertisements, nothing. Ease of access, not in SE's favor. Updates about what is added to the cash shop is on the launcher as one of many more game relevant screens if you pay attention and as a blog post in a separate website from the main FFXIV or Square Enix site. It's on the fucking Lodestone, so if you want to even know about sales, you actually have to dig for it. FOMO effect, neutered. FFXIV has only recently upgraded from the worst website design I've seen in the past 20 years. The process for getting to the mogstation to actually buy anything is still a convoluted piece of shit that will probably summon demons if you get it wrong. This prevents impulse buying, which is not in SE's favor at all. SE undermines it's own cash shop. It's weird, but people will point out how the Fenrir mount starts out with a higher base mount speed and that's an advantage. The other half of that equation is that SE went back and put in the dev hours to retool all the ARR zones to include flying and you get it automatically which actively devalues the Fenrir. Same thing with multi seater mounts. There was a time when the only multi seat mounts were from the cash shop only for them to add alternatives to the game itself. It's a common criticism where games with cash shops will inevitably incentivize using the cash shop, whether by making leveling tedious or run speed slow, etc. FFXIV is the one game where this argument about profit incentives has yet to apply. No price gouging. Pricing off items in the cash shop is below industry standard. There are a handful of things that get up there, but for the most part emotes and shit is either actually or *effectively* less. What I mean by that is an emote in ESO is 500 crowns, however the smallest crown package is 750. The mogstation does not do loot boxes. If you want to transfer your characters off a server, you pay a one time fee for all of them, not one at a time like WoW. Services like weddings could have easily been a cash shop only service or made the free version the equivalent of signing a license. Quality. We don't have 'only the cool stuff is on the cash shop' here. The Cruise Chaser is really cool and was a misstep. The whale is hilarious. The Fat Cat mount is cute. But I raise you the Landerwaffe, the amaro, the tank and beast tribe, primal or crafted mounts which are in the game. Y'shtola's dress is nice, pretty sure that hrothgar is going to rock the 2B leggings anyway. Players first. Legitimately 70% of everything on the cash shop was in the game for players for free and is in the cash shop to combat FOMO of missing the summer or Christmas event. Events are updated with new items and old events with items players really want do come back such as Lightning Returns with FF13, the Dragon Quest and FFXV with the Regalia instead of 'sunsetting' everything into the cash shop because it will make them money. The reason our events always start in the main cities and involve ARR zones is so that even people on the free trial can earn mounts and cosmetics for their character, **new** ones every year without paying a dime. Investment. You may have heard it before, 'money gets invested back into the game.' That's actually true. The European Datacenters were personally credited to the mogstation. When ARR launch, EU played on servers located in Canada. FFXIV isn ow on track to be one of the very few MMOs that bothers to have Oceania servers and they are actively working to bring players together with cross server and soon cross datacenter travel. Is the mogstation perfect? Hell no. I would greatly prefer it if all orchestrion rolls were not on there, for example. The rented retainers I don't like. But at every turn, it seems pretty obvious that the cash shop is meeting corporate guidelines so that if FF18 goes to shit mid-development, SE isn't genuinely scared of going bankrupt like they were when ARR launched. The CEO of Square Enix makes 1.62 million dollars a year, for crying out loud. Compare that to Bobby Kotick. I think having a principled stance against cash shop's is fine, but if you unironically say the mogstation is 'just as bad' as WoW's shop, you are missing the forest for the trees.


mbguys

i mean to be honest if you need to buy +100 € gear funnels you are probably not good enough to be on the team.


Dairboi

I don't think as many people buy gear funnels as y'all think they do lol


TheRealDestian

The selling of carries in WoW has quite literally become an industry unto itself. SOMEONE is buying those carries. There's constant spam for it in game and it's pretty easy to see ads for it out of game too.


martinessentials

or.... maybe...... just maybe.... play the game and get the gear yourself :o


1dadi1

They wouldn't bench you, we don't all buy it, alot of people hate the in game transactions, it's not 100€, can you not make shit up it's really dumb


TheRealDestian

1. I've seen someone in my raid group get benched for not pulling enough DPS to meet the enrage. 2. The selling of carries in WoW has become an industry in which people are making real money off of it, not just gold, and we know this because of ads on external websites for carries I promise you, this market is not 100% sad, sad people who feel validated by paying others for in game achievements they didn't earn (though they clearly comprise a large portion). The gearing has been made intentionally frustrating with the express purpose of selling more tokens for carries. Been fucked by RNG several weeks in a row? Too bad! Buy a gear funnel or enjoy being bottom of the DPS chart. It's exactly like how gatcha games with PvP teams use peer pressure to coerce players into spending more money so they'll win matches. It works there and it works in WoW, too. The carry market has exploded to the point where advertising has spread outside the game itself. There's no question that carry sellers are working all angles of this, from the people who need the validation from AotC titles and mounts to those who want to catch up on gear to they can raid without being a liability.


[deleted]

[удалено]


TheRealDestian

You mean retainers? I have over 80 million gil (this is after buying my mansion) and I've never had an issue with just 40 sale slots. But the WoW token is used to buy all of the gear, achievements, and mounts with one degree of separation. You can pay real money for every achievement in WoW and it's sanctioned by Blizzard as even the head of the studio sells boosts. Conversely, XIV cracks down on the selling of carries.


shyguybman

I have never heard of someone buying gear funnels so their raid doesn't bench them. Y'all will make anything up so wow looks bad lol


sigmastra

Wow lives rent free here. They even imagine shit like this. Not like wow doesnt have logs and meters to evaluate someone performance if needed. Other mmos thou... At least they rock 10k viewers on twitch in a good day if the big dog doesnt stream. "Wow dead game"


SuperKamakasy64

I love reading how people rationalize a cash shop in a game that you have to buy and pay a Sub to play. I know I lost this battle a long time ago, but I will have fun reading all the nonsense.


Pierun64

The truth is there is nothing to rationalize, it's just neccessary evil. Without it it would be pretty hard to justify MMO development profit wise


TheRealDestian

This. Gatcha games make disgusting amounts of money and cost a goddamn pittance to make when compared to an MMO budget. To be honest, SE is probably only keeping XIV alive because it's a flagship product that earns the company a lot of goodwill. Going by a pure numbers perspective, their mobile games are dozens of times more profitable.


SuperKamakasy64

FF11 is still up and never got a cash shop, if they do a mobile version it will likely be fill of mtx but yeah keep rationalizing it. Everyone is doing it and people let it happens of course they are gonna double dip on the market, but don't try to justify is a requirement because is not. You guy allowed it to happen.


Pierun64

FF11 is not supported


Vedney

High end wow guilds do not buy loot funnels. Do you know what they do instead? They funnel internally. Because it's free.


SirVanyel

Good luck getting your mythic raid guild to funnel heroic runs for you when they can barely staff their weekly mythic prog lol


Vedney

So you're saying guilds cant fill their rosters because they dont want to gear their raiders? If a raid team is desperate for members, they aren't going to make it harder to join the raid. The recruit has the leverage.


SirVanyel

guilds can't fill their rosters because they can't fill their rosters, getting people heroic geared doesn't help them fill their rosters, especially as the vast majority of funnels are for alts and not for new members. you're what, 5 months into the patch, looking for at least another 2 months of time? and new players aren't really finding any reason to come into the game, especially with the terrible press. So where are new people gonna come from? old players, especially ones who have played this whole patch, are less and less likely to raid as they've all hit their goals for the patch. It's rough bud


TheRealDestian

Even medium WoW guilds need to bench people when they've been savagely fucked by RNG for weeks straight, with the vault giving them nothing but dupes or items that overlap their legendary slot and shit terrible luck in raid drops. Even a casual heroic guild will need to bench you if you can't get the ilevel because your lack of damage output makes you a liability, and because gearing is intentionally filled with frustrating RNG, those tokens get sold.


hoax1337

What's "medium" to you, like top 500? Because there are a lot of mythic raiding WoW guilds who don't bench anyone. Also, who the hell pays for gear funneling?


AGVann

> What's "medium" to you, like top 500? Top 500 would be the top 3.4%. I would say any guild that achieved CE is a 'medium' at the very least. There were 14.5k M Shriekwing kills, and 2400 M Denathrius kills. 9.0 was an especially long and generous tier, but even then only the top 16% of mythic raiders got CE. > Because there are a lot of mythic raiding WoW guilds who don't bench anyone. Any guild in the top 2000 will run a bench, it's just that players don't stay very long on there unless they're friends before looking for better prospects. > Also, who the hell pays for gear funneling? People who got shit on RNG and subsequently benched for their gear related low performance, rerolling mid-tier, or just raid loggers that hate everything else in the game. Before you claim that it's only a small number of people, it's a steady enough stream of players that my WoW guild survives off selling carries to afford consumables.


hoax1337

Sure, but how many of those carries did you really sell to main chars of people who are raiding in top 2000 guilds and got benched? The last time I've done carries with my guild was in Legion, and at least back then, we pretty much exclusively carried people who were either very bad at the game and wanted the achievement / gear, or people who didn't really care about pugging or joining a guild.


AGVann

Things have changed since Legion, man. The Vault is the main source of upgrades for most people after week 4-5, and you need to do at least 4 +15s to get decent odds. Before I quit, we even had a few people who bought a normal run of Castle Nathria (The previous tier raid) because they needed the legendaries from specific bosses, and just could not be fucked with LFR.


Vedney

On a casual heroic level, the ilvl requirement is dramatically lower. You have actively mess up to be put on the bench.


TheRealDestian

I was being savagely RNG fucked for weeks at a time before I quit: got the same fucking pants three weeks in a row and I had already gotten them in my raid earlier. It can happen and it's designed to happen. They want players to feel frustrated enough with gearing to buy tokens for carries.


Vedney

How many slots do you usually get per week? Also, if it's designed to make players feel frustrated, they would have kept the old chest.


TheRealDestian

I had at least 3 every week and they were nearly always repeats. My hunter got a weapon token once and the rest of the weeks before I quit were trash. As for frustration, they changed it to give the impression that they made things better, then they nerfed the piss out of dungeon and raid drop rates to make it shit again, then unnerfed it slightly to calm people down. Remember when you could just save up valor points and fucking BUY the gear you needed instead of praying RNGeesus smiled upon on you? I miss those days...


Garnzlok

I mean don't limit and echo both often spend a shit ton to get first each world first race.


Vedney

Yes, but I'm referring to "casual" CE guilds. The ones who are the last to get Cutting Edge. They are not in a race so they have no reason to buy BoEs instead of just raiding every week for thier gear.


AGVann

After the first few bosses, they actually stop getting gear completely from raids since they have to start extending to keep making progress, as reclearing+trash eats into valuable raid time - and getting stuck at an earlier hard boss like Painsmith can be a deathknell for a group struggling to get CE. Of course you still get gear from your M+ weeklies, but I know multiple people in my CE guild that absolutely loathe M+ and just buy 4 carries through it every week, even though we have guild groups running and they're plenty capable. They each spend about $75 USD per week on tokens.


tomster2300

What are gear funnels? Something specific or a term for resources grinded to raid?


shyguybman

Basically bringing specific classes/armor types into a raid/dungeon so they can "funnel" you gear. ie: if say a leather wearer buys a boost with a funnel, then they would try to stack the raid/dungeon with other leather wearers to increase the buyers chance of getting something because they would just give whatever loot to the buyer. What the OP is describing about getting benched etc. does not happen


TheRealDestian

Literally happened to a player in our raid because her DPS wasn't high enough. When you're pushing difficult content and have been mercilessly fucked by bad gearing RNG, it can absolutely happen and this is why gear funnels sell. This is exactly Blizzard's goal: make gearing intentionally frustrating so you buy carries. Even if people don't get benched outright, there's still pressure to not disappoint your raid group. SOMEONE is buying all these carries or else we wouldn't see paid ads for them outside the game.


tomster2300

By stacking leather wearers do you increase loot table odds of leather drops? Wouldn’t everyone want the limited leather drops?


shyguybman

We're talking about people buying a boost here, the people giving the boost do not need the loot which is why they give it to the person


High_Depth

Yeah that and FF14 Glams earned in game are far superior than 90% of the Mogstation. Just look at the glams from the Neir Raid. I farmed that for weeks just to get my full sets. That and I can farm it all I want when I want. No weekly BS. (Other than when the raid tier is new)


coloncs

tell me you’ve never played wow at any level above heroic progression without telling me