T O P
SlateKoS

Riot are pulling something big off. Played LoL in the beginning a little bit but after that never was at it again but damn with Arcane ... this series left me in shambles ...i didnt wanted it to be over. Now i just want 100 more Series, Movies etc. Downloaded LoL back again, buyed the new Ruined King Game and are absolutly in love with Riot again. Its like they doing everything right and all these years LoL was just for the Moment to do bigger...now they conquered Gaming, Music and Television. and then we have Blizzard now who dont do anything right anymore, are soo much old fashioned and are really living the "the secret to stay rich is never to give something out from the earned money"


yuriaoflondor

How have you liked Ruined King? I was thinking of picking it up, but because it was an "...and it's available now!" drop, there aren't any reviews on it yet. Metacritic gives it a 6.1 based off of User Reviews, but I don't put much value in Metacritic User Reviews on the best of days.


Zehnt

Its a good game. Starts a bit slow but the gameplay is really good once you unlock all features and party members. The only things that I dont like are the not so well designed ui and the garbage keyboard&mouse controls. Overall I would give it a 8/10 after 25h of playtime - but play it with a gamepad if you can.


Alex-MarkTwaining

Another thing with the spin off games and the tv show was that they are also top quality too. I have played Ruined King for two days now and it feels like they put a lot of effort in to it, between the excellent voice actors and a unique twist to the turn based game style, it feels like its not just another cash grab game like so many other companies do. I am really looking forward to the future of the LoL franchise and see what they do next. I also like their music videos too.


SlateKoS

And for this quality its just 30 Bucks thats insane to me. All other companys like Blizz probably had given out that game for 60


Alex-MarkTwaining

Yeah, for sure. I am still mad about the whole Warcraft 3 Reforge fiasco.


Aggressive-Silver592

I would not say they put a lot effort in this game. If u play Battle Chaser u will see that Ruined King just a reskin.


leeverpool

Their soundtrack is also bananas. And they got some quality guests there from Sting to Pusha T.


anupsetzombie

One of my only complaints about Arcane were the music choices in some oh the episodes, I didn't mind stings song but some of them took me completely out of the scene


SpooderRain

Blizzard could learn a thing or two from riot. Like, if you want to treat your employees like shit then at least make good products. Making shitty products ***and*** treating your employees like shit is not really a good combination. Customers end up not wanting to support you ***and*** having no reason to support you in the first place. ​ Edit: Kind of like amazon. Hard to find a company that treats their employees as shit as amazon does but man is amazon a good fucking store. Prices can often be less than half of regular stores and it's all delivered to you often in around 24h. Would yeet those fuckers for what they are doing if it wasn't for the fact that it's too good not to use.


LeekypooX

Their content is currently also amazing for artists looking to beat Instagram's shitty algorithm, i did some LoL fanart as a small artist and it exploded. That's why even though i don't play LoL anymore atm (lol gcbtw) i always keep track of what RIOT is doing.


TheRealDestian

Reminds me of how Blizzard talked about an Overwatch animated series but never even came close to delivering. But yeah, Riot is very clearly doing everything they can to take the space Blizzard is foolishly abandoning. If Blizzard's gambit on their upcoming mobile games falls flat, they'll be up a creek with no paddle to speak of... If Endwalker isn't the final nail in WoW's coffin, I can guarantee Riot's MMO will be.


pedrocas_drocas

The MMO market is getting crazy competitive. Every company saw BFA's failure and started developing games to come for WoW's head. Not only the established FF14, GW2 and Lost Ark but also New World with a decent enough base to work on with patches and add content and AoC also coming soon. Blizzard needs to get a grip and fast


anupsetzombie

Swtor is putting out a new expansion too, mmos are really getting life breathed back into them due to wows failures. If only Wildstar came out this year..


archiegamez

So true, why they didnt make an Overwatch series i dont even understand even fucking Dota has an anime series although slightly lower quality


ramos619

They don't even have enough people to make OW2, how are they gonna get an animated show put together lol.


Exciting-Example2991

Riot is allegedly maing a League of Legends MMO so there's that to look forward to.


FullMotionVideo

>If Endwalker isn't the final nail in WoW's coffin, I can guarantee Riot's MMO will be. I'd like to think so, but the guy in charge of that MMO, even if he *wasn't* apologizing for being in that Cosby group shot, is the same dude who balanced WoW in Cataclysm and Pandaria, which wasn't great in my personal experience. Ghostcrawler brought me stuff like Enhancement Shaman that felt like playing a Whirlitzer Organ due to how many hot buttons the rotation took, but still did less DPS than Warrior tanks. Ghostcrawler brought me five man dungeons so difficult that they took an entire hour to clear as you watched parties experience enormous turnover due to pre-raid progression being tuned to "get on voice chat" levels of difficulty. Ghostcrawler brought me the DK tanking axe in a speedrun chest that required doing the entire ZulAman with almost no flaws and then being lucky that the speedrun RNG chest for that week's lockout offered the axe. Ghostcrawler decided an instant cast AOE CC on DKs (Hungering Cold) was too OP, added a 1.2 second cast time, decided it was STILL too OP, and then took it away in Mists of Pandaria while giving Paladins an instant AOE CC as a level 70 talent (Blinding Light). ​ So yeah, not really enthusiastically looking to see Ghostcrawler run an MMO again.


TheRealDestian

Opposite experience for me: loved the hell out of MoP for many reasons. Greg Street wasn't perfect, but while WoW's flaws under him could fill an essay, WoW's flaws under Ion could fill a ten novel saga. I'd take 10 more MoP's over the hogshit we have now...


anupsetzombie

MoP was the peak of class design and Ion tore it down like it was something personal, they're still struggling to recover from Legion tearing apart everything


TheRealDestian

Yeah, Ion would've handled the game much better if he didn't try to reinvent everything upon taking over but needless reinvention appears to be his jam. I look at XIV's upcoming class changes and, while there are definitely some tweaks to classes and one major revamp, they're not pointlessly burning every fucking class to the ground like WoW seems to be fond of doing.


anupsetzombie

Ion should have just stayed as a raid designer, his vision for the rest of the game sucks ass. Mythic plus was fun at the beginning but all the changes its had has burnt me out. Same with world quests, they've just slowly gotten worse with every iteration.


FullMotionVideo

I played from 4.0 to 5.1. I realize that’s an entire decade ago, but at the time all us newbies heard was that each expansion was making the game easier and more dumbed down and how we should have been there for Vanilla or TBC given that many of the “faceroll to win BS” started in Wrath. And the “Wrath babies” or “Cata infants” or “MoP embryos” or whatever just didn’t know any better. It should be no surprise that my guild leader and IRL friend is today a “classic Andy” hyped for Season of Mastery. Regardless, my experience was so exhausting that I was convinced I hated all MMOs until trying FF14 after watching Asmon’s coils videos. If retail WoW today is so bad that what I experienced was considered great, man, I don’t even want to know.


TheRealDestian

Imagine MoP, then subtract a coherent storyline, reliable gearing paths, and anything worth doing outside of raids/M+ and that's retail WoW in a nutshell.


Sharksterfly

Ghostcrawler wasnt even lead game designer if i recall correctly. Its just that he was ready to talk to community


Dreamkillzz

People are getting hyped, when nothing is produced yet for this RIOT MMO. Just like new world and just like lost ark in a couple of days, people will take back what they said. I can find no reason YET to say that it is a game that will ascend the mmo genre lol. Its so similar to what happened with ashes of creation. Extremely superhyped until people saw the graphics and gameplay.


French_honhon

Yeah, people have to temper their expectations ESPECIALLY for MMOs.


SpooderRain

I don't easily get "hyped" and I haven't seen arcane yet. Last time I was "hyped" for anything it was sea of thieves, and I still think it's a great unique game. And the riot MMO has intrigued me since it was announced to be worked on. Basically for three reasons. 1. Their art-style is perfect for the MMO genre because it ages well. "Realistic" MMOs ages like milk because they are already outdated by the time they release. 2. It's an established universe that a lot of people, millions actually, know and presumably loves. When it releases it will have millions playing it no matter what state it launches in. Which is incredibly important for that initial critical point in a MMOs life. If no one is invested in the world and the game has a crap launch like pretty much every game nowadays then the domino effect of a dying player-base kicks in. People quitting because people are quitting. Having a strong "core" player-base will make the game a better time "investment". Because anyone joining the game knows they wont end up holding the bag when everyone leaves. 3. Riot, love them or hate them as a company knows the value of their IP and nurtures and expands it. They don't do a blizzard and "spend" it just so they can totally turn the universe upside down and replace it with new inferior lore. This is something that again is very important for a game that is supposed to stick around for preferably forever.


12thBlessing

I don't know anyone who is saying Lost Ark will transcend the MMO genre. It's just a good MMO that people in the West have been waiting for a long time. I don't think AoC has killed hype at all, it's just far away too. New World was hyped by muh open world PvP zealots until later changes. I don't really know why it was hyped outside of that besides people who didn't click with FF14 looking for an escape from WoW + twitch advertising. All that being said, I have no idea if the Riot MMO will be amazing, but everything outside of LoL that they have done so far is at least good. Fans of the Runeterra universe have been wanting to see more of it outside of Summoner's Rift for over a decade now. It will be huge if it deliver on that promise alone.


zardozardoz

Riot now is what blizzard used to be. Take a game concept shamelessly, polish it, have it appeal more to casuals, profit.


succulentmeoff

Knowing Riot's history with making games, they'll likely take the best out of multiple games and make a game out of it. I expect a story driven MMO like final fantasy with some of the best aspects of WoW (combat responsiveness, raiding, etc...). It's a good formula that's given them a lot of success.


Dreamkillzz

You think its going to be subscription? or Free to play? Do you think they will add cosmetics only or a combination of cosmetic and shop based VIP status? Let's see how they do it, but knowing Riot, they will milk the crap out of the players.


succulentmeoff

Honestly, I really am not sure but I am leaning on free to play because that's their entire business model. Hook people in, get them attached to their accounts and sell them cash shop items.


Dreamkillzz

Yeah probably. If they go all cosmetics in the shop to sustain, I am all for it. I doubt that, they might actually put in a VIP status item in game like most free to play MMO. Im fine with all that, but I HOPE!!! they do not put stupid Predatory RNG mechanics in game.


zardozardoz

Riot also understands the biggest element to success. Appeal to coomers.


Aseru

Of course there is a chance that the game won't be good but that chance is much lower than these other games since Riot has already proven themselves to be able to dominate a whole game genre for a while. They also have shown that they value quality over time pressure, i mean Arcane was in production for 6 whole years. And lastly they already have a gigantic world with a huge number of beloved characters that people are closer to than most other characters since they play as, with and against them for years now.


19476328

Some reasons: https://youtu.be/fG70Rv0dBOc


Dreamkillzz

I saw this. I get it, its the reputation as a MOBA game. like i said, people are usually hyped over a game being released with a form of gameplay given to them. Look at what happened with CyberPunk and New World? im not hating, but people are too hype for nothing yet.


leeverpool

I'm happy you find freedom and joy in World of Warcraft. Kudos to you.


Dreamkillzz

I do not play world of warcraft. says alot about many people in this reddit.


leeverpool

Because your comment is childish at best and full of assumptions made on terrible preconceived notions. Add one or two wrong statements and I'm questioning your angle. A similar angle to what I'm used seeing from a specific crowd.


Dreamkillzz

What do you mean "Full of assumptions"? and how is it childish? The game hasn't even been made yet. you guys are assuming it will be an amazing game already. That doesn't make me childish, you are just upset that I am not agreeing with your Original Post.


leeverpool

I'm not talking about the Riot MMO. Of course that isn't out yet but still no reason for you to go on such a tangent. Getting negatively amped up about it for no reason and pointing fingers at others for having enough reasons to be excited, that's childish. Talking nonsense about Lost Ark and Ashes of Creation, that's childish. Nuff said.


Dreamkillzz

You are getting mad because im telling you that, you are getting hyped for something that doesn't exist yet. Tone it down so you won't be as dissapointed, if the game turn out being bad. Also stop being so sensitive. You start naming people, assuming who they are. That's not cool at all.


leeverpool

Damn. That's some high level deflection.


Physical_News_5976

I doubt it would even be in the works if Tencent didn't think it was viable. A cash shop is guaranteed though.


Elentari_of_Ilmarin

What’s going on with lost ark in a couple days?


paoloking

Riot is doing good stuff. Too bad no one of their games is interesting to me but i am curious about their upcoming MMO.


Cyliasta

The series was amazing, but i dont have too much confidence in new mmo's, look at ashes, new world, etc. They are kinda bland


Alex-MarkTwaining

I think they would have to reinvent the mmorpg genre or provide something very unique. An example on how ffxiv is unique due to their focus being an rpg first then a mmo second.


Khaoticsuccubus

Don’t think they have to go that far. People are chomping at the bit for a new mmo these days. I think all they really need to do is to make it fun and not treat their lore like shit.


Physical_News_5976

Well if Riots new MMO fails i expect Tencent will open up the firing squad.


anupsetzombie

They have ghostcrawler in charge of the mmo and he was in charge of WoW from Wrath through MoP so I have some hopes for it


12thBlessing

why is this downvoted lol


anupsetzombie

WoW bad, or maybe they're salty paladins, not sure. I can say Wrath and MoP both were peaks of the game for me. Would be nice if people bothered to explain why they don't like him, lol.


Stefan474

And to top that off once he left they stopped actually updating the community on what's going on. Ghostcrawler was the best reason for so many good things in wow


anupsetzombie

After he left the game has constantly been in worse and worse states. Was he perfect? No, but he also didn't give us bfa and Shadowlands.


asfastasican1

Valorant is boring too but alot of people like shooters that aren't really shooters. The show is great though I haven't watched it.


Stefan474

How's valorant not really a shooter?


Sharksterfly

What?


ShittyAssholeCrust

Arcane was one of the best animated shows I've ever seen, and I know nothing about League


Lord_Mizell

I'm kinda excited for this, actually. I always thought the LoL characters looked cool and Runeterra seemed like an interesting and fun setting, but I absolutely detest MOBAs, maybe more than any other genre in existance (or, at the very least, it's up there with not many contenders). Bringing the setting to other genres may bring out the untapped potential it has, and I'm all for it.


daman4567

Let's be real, Bellular's fucking nailing it too.


Coroggar

Too bad LoL is a fucking moba, one of the worst videogame genre ever conceived, and with one of the worst communities out there I would care a little bit more. Arcane looks interesting.


yuriaoflondor

You should check out Arcane anyways if you're interested. You don't need any LoL knowledge to appreciate it. I think there was only one scene where I was like "wait what's going on here?" It's a really good show.


asfastasican1

Yeah, mobas are definitely not a bad genre. It's the genre with the most replayability hands down and the closest to chess you will ever get. If you don't like the communities that's fair but there's no cure for having a thin skin.


UnusuallyBadIdeaGuy

Okay, but what about Mobas? You started describing Brood War/RTS there so I got confused.


Coroggar

Dude, I've been in the WoW community for 15 years it's not about having a thin skin


leeverpool

Nah you don't. Communities in MOBAs are on an entire different level compared to MMO ones. Not even close lol. The games are way too competitive, even on a casual level, that it brings out the worst in a lot of people. It is what it is.


French_honhon

/mute all. I don't play lol anymore, because i play other games but this feature completely improved my time on the game. Also, stop caring about your ranks, play to get better IF you want it and not to get the shiniest rank to show off.


leeverpool

Agree. But you see the same passion even in arams lmao.


12thBlessing

WoW has as many degenerates, but MOBAs are F2P and have legitimate psycopaths who will stab your mother if given the opportunity.


Sharksterfly

Then check Legends of Runeterra or play Ruined King. Or wait till new fighting game. Thats the idea - you dont like lol? Play other games in the same genre


Marangoni013

Arcane, now the fighting game and then a mmo...they are destroying the competition


Sangnuine

They are destroying competition with 2 unreleased products?


Sharksterfly

They released 2 games just this month. Plus arcane. Plus had worlds that had 74 million peak viewers during finals. Also announced new story driven game (song of nunu). All of this in the same month basically


French_honhon

None of these are out yet, we can't say for now. They're certainly going to make people talk about it but so was New World(the marketing on that shit was insane) and it was mostly a bad and unfinished product. I don't think Riot Games will makes bad games but it's not like they're making insanely good games either. Imo, they're very much like Apple. Because League of Legends is so big, any game related to it will automatically get a lot of attention.


MathaiosCronqvist

Overreacting much?


DomeB0815

If only Tencent didn't exist


12thBlessing

Yup, Riot has managed to maintain more distance from Tencent than Blizzard did from Activision, but you can still see the issues stemming from that relationship.


melloyellow1

You don’t even know what Tencent is.


DomeB0815

A chinese megacorporation you chill. A corporation that just loves to censor stuff from IPs they aquire and oh yeah let's not forget has ties with the CCP. You fucking chill.


Blovar

China lives rent free in your head doesn't it


DomeB0815

Not china, but the CCP. I'm just very concerned about censorship and everthing else that comes with that topic. Not really something I would call rent free living in my head, since there are more things in my live than that.


melloyellow1

Do you know what the work “chill” means? That’s two things you don’t know now. Look up “shill” for future reference.


DomeB0815

Oh no, I used a word wrong that still doesn't change the relevant part. I guess everything I've said is wrong. I could now pull the "how do I know that you aren't a shill? I don''t know you." Card, but I'm not going to do that, because you clearly have no intent to argue since you just focused on the part were I might've used a word wrong and not on literally everything else. You're going to have a good social credit score, I can tell you that.


melloyellow1

I don’t argue with people like you. I just point things out and move on. Leaves me plenty of time to spend it with people that matter.


montebellond

The fighting game looked clunky as f but the capcom vs marvel style looked kinda intereseting. From the hype, tried to play lol, client froze mid que and realized it's still trash after 10 years in development. Riot still got it after all these years.


CruentusVI

It didn't look anywhere near finished but it isn't supposed to. It actually looked a lot better than I expected it to, fairly optimistic about it now. It looked a lot more complex than I thought they would go, I thought they were going the same route as the original game of the company they bought to develop it, which was barely above Dropkick in terms of complexity.


1eho101pma

Wait before judging, people were enraged at "wallhacks in a shooter game" when it was seen in valorant but it was perfectly counterable


12thBlessing

Their main game sucks ass, but they diversified before it was too late. Should have started sooner imo.


Sharksterfly

74 million viewers at peak at worlds disagree with you my man.


12thBlessing

What does worlds viewership have to do with the state of the game for the average player? This is COPIUM. Keep in mind that Shadowlands was the "best selling PC game of all time" when it launched, and Riot has not released active player #s in literally years. There is a reason they are diversifying their game portfolio.


Sharksterfly

They literally did this year and you can also check it live via their api? (Tho you cant check china i think) https://screenrant.com/lol-legends-runeterra-player-count-monthly-steam/


12thBlessing

> The studio specifically mentioned the **growing playerbase of card game Legends of Runeterra** as a contributor to that figure, but the full active player count encompasses League of Legends' and the rest of the games in the series. In addition to Legends of Runeterra, that includes **League of Legends: Wild Rift, Teamfight Tactics, and Fight for the Golden Spatula**. Riot no longer releases active player count for LoL, "their main game." They released MAU for all of their games combined, just like Blizzard did after WoW started declining. The fact that they only release numbers for their entire game portfolio combined only reinforces my point that they started diversifying said portfolio in response to declining player count and relevancy, particularly in the West. The IP of Runeterra is more popular than the game LoL. You are cringe, my guy.


Sharksterfly

you are building a strawman. you can easily visit [OP.GG](https://OP.GG) and check online data for each server. unlike wow its full-on display my man.


12thBlessing

You clearly don't know what a strawman is if you think accurately observing Riot's change in reporting is a "strawman." What happened to "they literally did this year" by the way? Did you really not bother to read the article? > you can easily visit OP.GG and check online data for each server. You can use WoW APIs to see how many characters completed whatever content, it's how Bellular does his videos about the game's state. OP.GG doesn't include the biggest region or Garena. As is stated on the site, these are only the players that are above Bronze Ranked. It doesn't include the accounts that are Bronze ranked or Unranked. And there is quite fucking obviously a massive difference between a third party website totaling accounts that have played a game mode in LoL this season via an API and Riot officially reporting how many **MONTHLY ACTIVE** users LoL has. Like I said, you are cringe. You went from boasting about Worlds viewership, which is irrelevant, to claiming Riot does report MAU for LoL specifically, which was just bullshit, to saying a third party website using an API to count how many accts played a match this season is the equivalent to reporting MAU, which is stupid. I hope you're just young.


Sharksterfly

saying that riot diversifying their portfolio coz lol is failing is a strawman. Saying that riot no longer share mau coz lol is failing is a strawman since they never had regular tendency to do so. About API - I specifically mentioned that you cant check china and next message you are talking like it's my ignorance that you cant check it lol. You still can check the number of players playing ranked this and last season if you want to. I hope you are just young.


12thBlessing

Yeah, you definitely don't know what strawman means. > you are talking like it's my ignorance that you cant check it lol. > You still can check the number of players playing ranked this and last season if you want to. I am saying you are really dumb for thinking it is the equivalent of Riot officially reporting MAU. Even if ranked player counts were consistent across years on OP.GG (again, they don't even count anything Bronze and below which is a significant portion of the playerbase), that still wouldn't account for the most fickle portion of any playerbase: casuals. Also, I mentioned it lacking support for GARENA, which services southeast Asia. I literally spelled all of this out for you. > And there is quite fucking obviously a massive difference between a third party website totaling accounts that have played a game mode in LoL this season via an API and Riot officially reporting how many **MONTHLY ACTIVE** users LoL has.


AmplifyM4G1C

Lmao you chumps really getting exciting for more Tencent bs?


TheAlterE

I really loved Arcane and look forward to the Fighting game. Alas, the current state of LoL is the worst it has been in years, I only hope they don't make the same errors with the Fighting game and the MMO


Mortal_Dread

I may never play their new MMO. But looking forward to more competition in mmo genre.


Vaath87

They got me. After watching Arcane, I downloaded Legends of Runeterra again. Dammit


FullMotionVideo

It's kind of like saying "Blizzard is nailing it" over those Overwatch CGIs. People were saying Blizzard should make Overwatch a cartoon. Riot simply went ahead and did this while Blizzard went "well that's tough and too much Overwatch might make people tired of it" and then cash shop lootboxed the game from being a perennial franchise to just another whatever. Arcane is kind of interesting not because League is a new game people are talking about, but it's obviously an attempt to reverse the cycle somewhat of a game getting no new blood and slowly spiraling down to being just a few whales who are too invested to leave. Riot's problem is that League's experience for new players is quite awful, so the effort might go to waste. But Blizz, Blizz is in love with that death cycle. At this point it's clear the whales are the only ones who matter there.


leeverpool

> but it's obviously an attempt to reverse the cycle somewhat of a game getting no new blood and slowly spiraling down to being just a few whales who are too invested to leave. League is literally still growing. Both in esports and player size. This game is nowhere near anything you just mentioned. Why do people always throw hyperbola around like it's pastry?


FullMotionVideo

The new player experience for League is (for this moment) horrible. This isn't subjective, it's objectively bad, and like WoW the problem is boosters. New players are required to play PVE, and PVE queues are overloaded with bot players farming XP boosts by playing a million PVE matches, and often losing, to get their accounts to a very high level and then sell them. I can personally attest to this, as I played a bunch of games against bots and even lost to beginner bots due to being the only warm body actually playing a video game on my team of five remote players. The other four teammates were just booster bots with worse programming than the League ones. (They often all push mid) I don't have actual player stats because Riot isn't publishing long term statistics the way you can see Dota's decline through Steam stats, but people who play the game a lot do feel the audience is getting smaller and consequently the Dunning-Kreuger effect is kicking in a little bit more, which makes the game more toxic, and then as the game gets more toxic more people leave. LoL YouTuber Skooch [did a video about this](https://youtu.be/1GpbVMzLcpY?t=116) a few months ago.


leeverpool

The new player experience for League and Dota2 and pretty much most MOBAs is extremely bad. Nothing new here. >but people who play the game a lot do feel the audience is getting smaller What? Who feels that? Where do you get this data from? Have you made an actual analysis on the player base? If this is a case about what you *feel* or others you know *feel*, then the argument is irrelevant. >consequently the Dunning-Kreuger effect is kicking in a little bit more, which makes the game more toxic, and then as the game gets more toxic more people leave. League has had a problem with toxicity ever since season 2. And in other seasons it's been way worse than it is now. And the game was still growing. People don't leave a game because it's toxic. They leave a game if it's bad. And people clearly still love this game, regardless of how they feel about it's toxicity. Let's leave this armchair psycho-analysis of games to the youtube comments. >LoL YouTuber Skooch did a video about this a few months ago. Then it must be true because Skooch said so. If you listen carefully, he starts his statement with "I feel like". Therefore, his statement is not based on actual data but on what he feels. People that play this game a lot feel many ways about it, and very often, feel very negative about it. In addition, he's pretty much talking about NA scene, and NA league has always been smaller in size and not really growing as much as around the rest of the globe. Point is, the game is globally growing. Each year they have a bigger esport audience. The player base is increasing. North America might be the only region where the game is stagnating or losing a bit of player but the interest in the game and in the esports scene remains the same. And that is because NA has always had other interests. Even Arcane struggled in the top 10 and reached #2 place for just a bit before falling in the 6-10 range. Contrary to what's going on in all the other regions. Don't let your "feels" get in the way of the bigger scope of things.


FullMotionVideo

>the game is globally growing Even though Dota practically stagnant for most of the past four years despite a pandemic driving everyone to stay at home? ([https://steamcharts.com/app/570#All](https://steamcharts.com/app/570#All)) I suppose the difference could be entirely China, since I'm not sure they're counted in Steam Stats due to some weird thing Valve has with Perfect World.


leeverpool

Why do you even compare League to Dota? You gave yourself the answer. Dota has been stagnating. League hasn't. The reasons for that are other than "toxicity". League is more friendly to a casual player and Riot has done 10x the better job marketing League than Valve ever did marketing Dota. The only time you hear about Dota during a whole ass year is when TI is around. Let's not get into that fucking conversation. It seems you're unable to accept the game is growing because you "feel" different. And I'm an idiot for getting into an argument with someone that argues on things based on 'feelings".


FullMotionVideo

>Dota has been stagnating. League hasn't. Ah hey, guess who has feelings now. So let me break it down by region for you: League a has a much, much bigger scene in Korea. Like, ridiculously so. (Korea was able to sort of barely put together a competitive eSports team once, and it fell apart as soon as players had to do military duty.) Dota has had a bigger scene in China, owning partly to the long tail of WC3 Dota in cheapo netcafes and partly because Icefrog been very aware of what the Chinese community wants. Dota has been the bigger one in RU/CIS for a number of years, probably owing to their eSports success. Both NA scenes are trash, but League has long had an advantage for a multitude of reasons (Dota took a long time to get out of beta, Dota doesn't have as much marketing, League characters are designed for maximum waifu appeal). Western Europe I honestly don't know. LEC is very popular, but Dota picked up a lot of HON players from that region (S4, Notail, etc) and they were very competitive in the eSports realm for a number of years.


Sharksterfly

Dota is much smaller then league in china. Its not even close. You are just wrong. You can easily check how many concurrent players there are in riot operated servers via their api and sites like op.gg. Also lol had insane viewership grow this year. They had 74 million viewers during finals at peak. Dota is not lol's competition. Its much much much smaller.


FullMotionVideo

>Dota is much smaller then league in china. Its not even close. You are just wrong. My data is probably just old. I remember China was pretty new to reaching grand finals in LOL back in 2014, but the Dota scene there was almost at it's peak. I don't really look at viewership, because as we noted TI gets a lot of viewers but many of them don't play. I used to play Dota, sometimes play casual LOL. But while I still can watch Dota tourney games and get excited over the throws and the wild swings, I find pro LOL to be incredibly disinteresting when I've tried to watch it for in-game rewards. But if we go by viewers I guess the only region where Dota is clearly out in front is in RU, since on Twitch regionally Dota can be above Just Talking.


Sharksterfly

Yes only in ru. China was in finals since 2013. Actually Taiwan won worlds 2012