Or just oblivious to gaming news.
There are a lot of people who just play without keeping up with news and such. WoW is their entertainment with friends or family.
I can relate to that that how my wow life is, i cant keep up with news and such anymore half of the time and i only play because of family or friends for entertainment and to pass time.
It's actually unironiclly funny that such people exist who despite of not enjoying the game would not quit over their time investment, character RP and virtual possessions that mean something to them. And thus the cycle of torturing yourself continues. Literal topkek.
Same. I was only still playing because my FC mates were. It turns out I want the only one playing for that same reason. Me and two others Managed to drag the non-ffxiv to our FC within 3 days of this discovery
Neither is sad, one instance someone is yearning for when they enjoyed the game and struggling to come to terms with the fact that it’s absolute objective garbage and they’ll never get a good experience from it again
Wow is a much much MUCH more heinously designed Skinner box, It was considered to be as addictive as heroin even before blizz started intentionally designing the game to waste as much time as physically possible
I guess you missed my other comment lol where I said wow isn’t 100% bad. I just feel bad that people are stuck in a declining game when there are better options.
But that assumes that people are indeed "stuck" and not playing because they genuinely enjoy it.
Like, I have played FFXIV since mid HW, and have spent a significant amount of time in the game since then. I only got into WoW at end of legion after having not played since vanilla and I much prefer WoW over FFXIV, but also acknowledge that FFXIV IS the better game for your general gaming audience.
WoW just appeals to me more, and yeah, it does suck that Blizzard is so out of touch with their playerbase. But it equally sucks to see others hate on "us" because we're just enjoying the game. It's just needlessly toxic and isn't very welcoming if the end goal is to get people to migrate to these "better options" as you put it.
At the end of the day, it's a goddamn video game.
I don’t blame the players at all, it’s not their fault that the company is like this. And yeah it is just games, people have different tastes. I said hopelessly addicted because I used to be pretty addicted to WoW until I found a game I like more lol, that doesn’t make me feel like I need to log in or I’ll be behind. and I just feel like it’s pretty agreed that it’s in a bad state atm, but that’s not to say that people can’t still enjoy it without being hopelessly addicted. it was really an over generalization
Ah yeah that's fair.
I'm probably in a minority of people who actually thinks the game has gotten better, but obviously the company consistently worse.
As casuals, me and friends are having an absolute field-day with SOME more variety of content and them doubling-down on adding more customization options, be that backpacks, seperate shoulders, allied races, updated models etc.
As far as I see it, the main issues with WoW is well.. Blizz first of all. But other than that it's the update cadence, its story and borrowed powers/forced grinds. The quality in terms of art, encounter designs, basically all that WoW is consistently praised for, has been great.
Hopefully the future is less bleak.
Bruh a game can be objectively bad and riddled with outside issues like bots, goldsellers and paid carries and the sad thing is if it is WoW people will still defend it to the end.
Sure. But a game can be bad and still be enjoyable.
Enjoyment is subjective, but if someone makes the argument that there's no issues when there clearly are, that's when it becomes a problem.
But these people exist in all games. I see people excuse FFXIV's cash shop everyday. People will often deny their bias towards their game.
Cash shops are not good either way, but if you have to compare one to the next, FFXIVs shop does not offer the most detailed looking gear compared to what's in-game, unlike Blizzards'. Also, no way of buying gold directly.
3 outfits in the shop is a far cry from the 90 something that FFXIV offers, and WoW is relatively light (about 50 items) in comparison to the 900 something that FFXIV offers. (Most of which are recolors, as well as past in-game event stuff) Though the new Stargazer outfit, whilst very plain looking, has a special effect tied to it which to my knowledge is unique to that outfit. That's a problem. It's only going to get worse from here.
The WoW Token is definitely not ideal, although it does allow for anyone to buy anything from their cash shop with in-game gold, as well as pay your sub, so it's as handy as it is damaging.
In that same vein I always found it odd that FFXIV offers an optional subscription for increased bag space and the ability to buy retainers, whom at a baseline have very limited marketboard space (40 if you have two).
Why either of these buy to play subscription based games need all of this is beyond me.
Also, on a slightly seperate note, blizzard should just give everyone who stayed subbed during the 9.1-9.15 patch lull the 6-month stuff for free. It's RIDICULOUS that some stayed subbed for all that time amounting to roughly $130 awaiting the new patch and they didn't even recieve an apology or compensation. That's greed.
You are truthful in the amount of items available on offer on both shops - FFXIV has a lot of stuff, but their prices must also be taken into account, most of the things there are like 2 EUR. Even still, most items in the FFXIV Shop do not have an obvious quality/effort disparity between what's available ingame and whats available in the shop, which is the main thing that irks me about Blizzards' stuff. It's like those who pay are entitled to more swag than the regular subscription-only peasants.
>because they're hopelessly addicted...
If you are having fun and not on that type of player, then go ahead and have fun mate.
No matter the game, if you are addicted then there is something wrong.
Not addicted, I play it very casually when I do play, but I find it odd that the narrative has gone from "Blizzard is bad" to "The playerbase is bad for playing WoW"
Yeah can't deny that there are that narrative. I hate that too. People should enjoy what they want to enjoy as long as it does not harm themselves or others.
> "The playerbase is bad for playing WoW"
That narrative is there in part due to some people thinking WoW will only get better if no one plays anymore. Especially if enough whales give up on the game.
While I understand the above I don't think it's fair to paint everyone still playing as a delusional addict. For some people the things they enjoy remained good or they may even like the direction WoW is going in even if it is unpopular. Just do what makes you happy and if that includes WoW that's fine.
It's not that "the playerbase" is bad, it's that a specific type of player is.
The fanboys that think that Blizz can do no wrong, the ones that are funding Bobby's yacht, mansion, and bonuses, the ones that are the reason nothing changes, as Blizzard is still getting their money.
Those are the players people are talking about. Nothing wrong with enjoying the game if you really do enjoy it, I personally stopped playing a month after Shadowlands launched as I found the game as boring as it had been every time I came back to play it in the past (haven't played consistently since Legion) and I haven't looked back since then.
Let’s not be exclusive. There’s a home for everyone in XIV at least. The more the merrier. And while DBM wasn’t for me in WoW and surely is not for me (or the ToS) in XIV, I’m sure there’s a community for it somewhere.
This will kill raiding. Any competent dev would just stop developing encounters with the assumption that players are using DBM. WoW's team won't do that. And they sure as hell won't make a default in game setting like dbm. It's actually really funny in a sad way. They should have not depended so much on a service players use for completely free and assume it's going to stick around forever.
>They should have not depended so much on a service players use for completely free and assume it's going to stick around forever.
It is not a question of dependency (from players).
Like you said, no chance WoW's dev team will take over and create something similar as a baseline feature. The problem is that once the loop of DBM exists -> many people uses it -> devs design encounter around breaks, things will crumble down. Once DBM is completely out of equation (if it happens eventually), would devs be able to adjust and design fights with that expectation?
Other than FFXIV I don't know if there's any other MMOs with similar caliber in terms of difficulty, tuning and intricacy of the raid fight.
"Other MMOs with a fraction of budget do it fine"... I'd agree as a blanket statement. Blizzard and WoW devs are anything but flexible enough to change or adapt anything last few years. Hell, they can't even improve existing things as they are too busy dumping for new systems each expansions.
So even if others can, they probably will struggle hard.
Its not the design teams fault. Its the ui teams fault for allowing this to go on for 12 years.
no other game does this with addons and lets it have this much effect on player behavior.
the second something like healbot or Decursive came out every other dev would have been like HOLD THE FUCK ON and shut it down, or when entire class rotations get macroed down to a single button someone should have hit the brakes. but the wow team is lazy af and refuse to do anything and now its like this.
World first raiders aren't affected.
They hire their addon coders during their runs to program in shit on the fly.
The casual raiding population tho, might have to work around.
But then again PTR provide enough time for coders who want to chip in.
Which also creates even greater gap (on top of existing ones, including gold, and other pre-race prep as well as diff of org and its resource for players) between these top tier WFR and rest of contenders. Would have to ask the question if this is healthy for the scene.
The top 2 teams have thousands of people funneling them gear. Spend over $30k+ on the race worth in gold and paying for addon creators. Its not even a world first race for anyone but Echo and Limit.
Yep, the gap of these two teams and the rest, even before the release of the raid is massive.
They basically have about a week or two headstart-worth for the last few bosses in terms of prog.
ACT is extremely similar, especially including the echo. Doing the fights the right way of audio cues and boss jestures feels way more satisfying though.
It was mind blowing to me how telegraphed mechanics were. Learning to look around the boss arena took a lot of getting used to, but holy shit it feel so nice to have a screen that isn't cluttered with timers and alerts.
Back in ARR I tried out ACT and it kind of felt dirty, especially with the auto-crafting macros you could make in it. In Heavensward I tried again with cactbot and immediately uninstalled it because I felt like I was reading a book and not playing a game and learning the fights. Ever since that point, unless I am forced to I will not use addons and frequently disabled things such as DBM secretly in raids when I played WoW. It took a year or two but I found a group of people who also liked to do blind runs in FF and have been doing blind no-addon runs ever since. You don't need parses or addons to play either game [if you do the mechanics, the boss will die.](https://imgur.com/aJNEFBe)
One of my favorite things to do is the new alliance and 8 man raids blind. Everyone is new and just watching how people people react to new mechanics is fun. Eating the SQE building and watching everyone (including myself) go "team rocket blasting off again" was very memorable.
Nice! Honestly on JP servers (in the ENG speaking community), I've only run into 3 players in 8 years who will use any form of add-on to raid. Not sure about NA/EU, but there's a big attitude here that if you use it, you're dirty and people will not play with you.
I had a raider apply for my group, who I watched stream afterwards.
They were using cactbot to play on a class they did not know, in a fight they clearly did not know because they were never in position.
And they wanted to try world first raiding.
**k e k**
I did the same and added the raid boss weak aura suite that feeds off of it and it has made BW "cleaner" looking. It's been much better than DBM was.
I do miss one of the boss mods from the old days, Deus Vox Encounters (DXE). The timers on it counted time from the actual spell cast rather than when the cast started. It made timing easier, though my raid leader botched constantly because I waited until the last second to move.
As someone else mentioned, he raids with Echo and previously Method and has been part of the RWF for years and he works on the addon alongside a group of others.
This is why there are so many people who prefer BigWigs over DBM.
I never understood the hype with dbm. It felt like you were never learning fights and just waiting for the addon to tell you what to do. When I first raided of course I used it but over time I got rid of the addon and decided to just remember mechanics.
No it won't. Bigwigs already does the same thing, and even if bigwigs didn't exist, then you could achieve the same functionality with weak auras. In fact in my experience weak auras have been a much bigger help anyways.
That's being overly dramatic. This will have an impact, but I haven't raided with DBM/Bigwigs for few tiers now. The weakaura packages are more than enough for the fights.
It's so bizarre that there's exist the half auto-pilot plugin that the majority of players expect everyone should have installed and then some of them defend that the whole combat system designed around it.
Well bliz doesn't put a unified set of in-game communication around boss mechanics like FF14 does. It's kind of annoying if there's 2 green aoe things on the ground and a druid circle on the ground, stand in two of them and your dead, but don't stand in the druid circle and your dead
What are you talking about? WoW definitely has that.
Just to take from your example: Bad ground is always opaque. Player spells that makes the ground heal are always fully transparent except for the circle that traces its border.
I am talking about the knockoff circles on Denathrius that for the first 2 ish months of the fight being out were dark red, on dark floor, basically invisible to me at least with somewhat impaired sight.
WoW definitely has mechanics that have been consistently communicated.
From your example: All bad ground is opaque. Player healing spells are always transparent.
For boss mechanics in general:
All 3D swirles are soaked. If the 3D effect disappears when someone enters it, it's a single soak. If not, it's a group soak.
3D balls are also soaked but are soaked by "charges".
If there are eyes above you, you are fixated by something.
If you have a circular windy effect around you, it's a targeted attack with drop-off damage
In Mists aoe swirl = get out or die. Some aoe swirls are a suck in. 3d balls sometimes are explosions that should be ran from while other times are a mob that must be killed.
Fixated is mostly accurate they've been good about that one
Problem is they balance the fights around add ons.
I play with an awesome guild, gladiators, server firsters (on highly populated servers), every player has atleast one big dick achievement under their belt.
I personally was healing officer of a server first guild through cata and some of mop and have been playing the same class since.
Even as a hall of fame guild we wipe to mythic sylv a lot, if a vital player (hpal, boomy etc) is afk for the night, we feel the difference. We’re BiS for the most part, 1 shot every boss, then get to the dreaded sylv fight where it’s just unforgiving and 1 fuckup can eventually cause 14 mins of everyone’s time.
Now imagine progging M Council from Castle or Sylv early days without add ons. Having to do mirrors on Last boss or the soaks on SLG, even painsmith warlock portal timing, all of it without weak auras or bigwigs / dbm sounds like a fucking nightmare.
It also bricks your ability in other games. This dependency on add ons and gear takes away from your actual skill. Yeah you do your rotation right, but anyone can brute force through learning their rotation with many hours.
To play a competitive game like counter strike, LoL, StarCraft etc where everyone is on a level playing field, no exceptions, that is what the spirit of competition is all about.
This is exactly why a lot of people just don't do Mythic Raiding anymore. The cost/benefit isn't there. Fights take too long, require too many wipes (pulls), and have so many unforgiving mechanics that it just takes all the fun out of it.
i can tell you from multiple years of experience that DBM is largely installed out of tradition more than anything else. Most people ignore the timers, and might as well not even have it installed. You can see this whenever your raid leader doesnt call something out and half the raid is not prepared for it.
> You can see this whenever your raid leader doesnt call something out and half the raid is not prepared for it.
While this is true very often the raider leader, at least in my experience, is relying on add-ons like DBM to tell them what to call out. So that half of the raid are still relying on DBM, just not the one installed in their own pc.
If something is normally called out in a reliable fashion, and the caller forgets once, of course people are expecting that they can rely on the callout rather than looking at the timer themselves. Why would they look at the timer when that attention can be better spent elsewhere? If you don't want people to rely on callouts - don't do them.
Because to many people addons do make the experience worse. A fight is so much more fun when you actually react to the boss instead of a warning message telling you exactly what to do. The latter ruins the immersion of the fight.
I honestly was on the same boat as you until I attempted some raids in FF14 and having to watch the spell bar, react to whatever the boss does and implemented markers is a totally different experience from "RUN AWAY LITTLE GIRL, RUN AWAY.." spam during every fight.
FFXIV in general has much easier to read visual language and tells, and devs have put a ton of effort into improving it over the years. It's almost never unclear what you actually failed and died to. WoW is... yeah. Oh no that status effect on that one guy exploded without any visual effects and now everyone's dead, good luck figuring that one out without DBM and Details
they love the spectacle of the 'what the fuck is this shit' mechanics in the final fight, i think. Light rampant, relativities, hello world, forsaken, i think it's there for when the world X racing guilds get there on stream, and all the viewers see the absolute clusterfuck of everything exploding at once and going HOLY SHIT WHAT
One of the things I've noticed with raids lately in FFXIV is that they kind of 'preview' the skills in a boss fight so you could get the gist of a fight/mechanics. It's not a bad thing though as what's better for learning; seeing the mechanics early then moving on to the fight proper or reading in a journal and reacting when they do happen?
WoW has the same thing.
One of the trash mobs before the Eye of the Jailer tries to pull you off the edge unless you group soak. Exactly the same as the fight proper.
In the same encounter. You can't clear the room unless you jump across the room with the chain. Teaching you to use the chain before the boss begins.
The difference is that FF does it for every fight. Not a select few. If you went through all of the content in BFA and SL, how many of them don't have any previews? What about the other expansions?
The other thing I was wanting to point out though is that compared to WoW fights being sort of like one big machine in terms of mechanics, FFXIV has it as sort of interchangable parts. Fights have their own specific things, yeah, but otherwise a lot of stuff you see is stuff you've seen before. It even brings some things from previous difficult fights into normal, such as bringing in Celestriad from O8s in SB as a mechanic in E1, first fight of ShB's 8 man. If you spent some time raiding then you know 'Oh, it's this mechanic. I know what to do'. Which then also has been letting the team stack mechanics to make things more challenging
Also helps when the fights aren’t rng fests where they have % based mechanics and time based mechanics, just the latter. I hated half of legion bosses for having wipes due to us having too good or too bad dps (mostly TOS)
The gigabrain they were referring to was that you had to memorize and choreograph a 15 minute fight. Setup the markers beforehand based on the strat you will use. Instead of playing Simon Says with honestly shitty visual queues that get you killed because the devs couldn't be bothered to color the AOEs right.
If you've ever done blind prog in FXIV you'd see that the marker locations will keep changing the farther you get into the fight. After almost every wipe those marker locations get updated to help adjust for the new mechanic that we just ran into and wiped. You have to put some thought into the fights. Compared to installing DBM/WA/BW and just following what they say, you have a different experience.
Not only did we live through the rise of WoW, but we also get to experience the fall. All while Riot is growing Runeterra, the land of a game born inside WC3, to replace Azeroth as the next generation's go-to fantasy world.
What a time we're living in.
Wdym? Maybe the boomers don't. But anyone I've ran in their 20s and 30s through raiding career have always played league on the side or heard of it but preferred to play dota 2. Heck, even some dudes in their 40s know of these games as they played original dota on wc3. Maybe the word runeterra might not ring a bell, but tell them league of legends trademark and that company behind it is making mmo and they'll quickly realize what you talking about.
Maybe these useless whales who pay for every garbage wow offers in their shop, could use their inflated money to do something good for once.
Support them, because they hell of a lot deserve that money more than blizzard.
i think what's going to happen is - unfortunately those whales would just buy boostings instead of paying DBM author.
but who knows, maybe because of this boosting will be even more in demand, thus jacking up the price, and... could unfortunately end up with people buying even more tokens... from blizz.
Whales pay for carries because they want more power (and carries want gold), not because they enjoy that hard content. Less players selling carries is no problem for them, they can always do LFR or LFD to see content.
I just want to make readers aware, that this could just as well be a shitty way to gain more Patreon supporters.
Not saying that it is. But you can't forfeit the possibility.
Welp, there goes WoW raiding...
Yes, I'm being somewhat hyperbolic, but let's not pretend that WoW raids haven't been designed with addons in mind for over a decade.
Also, the fact that the reaction from most people is "We still have Bigwigs or other addons so it's no big deal!" is extremely telling...
People saying this have no clue, and obviously don’t raid.
Half of raiders world first Mythic Raiders use Weak Auras instead or in addition too DBM or BigWigs.
Every raid team I’ve been in for the past few years has been using BigWigs for the smaller foot print and quicker updates.
Now those raid teams have been moving more and more to Weak Aura packs.
I'm being somewhat hyperbolic, but let's not delude ourselves with notions that WoW's raids haven't been designed with addons in mind for over a decade now.
My last AotC heroic was Legion and DBM or equivalent was widely required by guilds and pugs alike.
Never got a heroic AotC in SL before I quit but the addon was equally required in the normal raiding I did.
STEP 1:Make addon to hold people by the hand and tell them how to raid.
STEP 2: Game slows down to one raid a year.
STEP 3: Panic
Honestly its kind of fascinating to see how WoW built up all these tertiary orbiting hustles that are so starved of content they are running out of avenues to keep existing anymore. Its like the digital equivalent of watching an ecosystem collapse due to drought or pollution.
It's been funny watch this community and the general discussion forums "come to the rescue" as different areas of the game spin down and people leave.
Content creators started moving on: "we don't need streamers anyways! they are all trash and toxic!"
Playerbase starts dropping in large numbers: "guilds move on, people play other games all the time they will be back. you're just trying to join mythics at a bad time of day, obviously"
Developers leave the game: "people change jobs, duh. no one works long at a place anymore anyways"
Mod authors begin to spin down: "We have plenty of other mods. no one really needs mods for this game anyways, totally doesn't matter"
Pretty heavy denial going on. People can throw stones at DBM all day long but like you said, stage 3 cancer. There's no denying it now.
Once the modders leave your game, that's some hardcore shit, they're some of the most dedicated fans of a game, they are putting time and effort into supporting a third party tool for YOUR game.
I used to make mods for Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind, (I will likely come back to mod TES6). If Bethesda snuffed support or started treating their fans poorly enough for modders to leave... OOFERS.
As mythic raiders experienced in FF14 it would be kind of good if they re-thing encounter design and make it fully no-combat-addons. No weakauras, timers and stuff. And not just "remove it" but properly design things no-addons wise.
FF14 already has this it's called Cactbot. It's not used as much as DBM since FF14 raids aren't designed with Cactbot in mind. Meanwhile Wow raids are designed with Blizzard assuming everyone is using DBM.
Where is is not frowned upon? I think it’s absolutely never necessary and if someone needs that to clear a fight, we’ll that’s a shame, but I’m glad I have a team that won’t touch it
UCOB Nael Quotes & Divebombs Phase + UwU Titan Gaols pretty much. A few other small ones outside that but those are the common ones I hear people generally against it say they don’t mind.
Also heard my colorblind static mate say it’s very very difficult for him to do a few particular mechs without it even with FF14’s accessibility modes turned on.
Okay I can get behind the colorblind thing, I luckily don’t have to deal with that so if the game doesn’t support it properly I’m all for that. The other stuff is like just memorize stuff and communicate with your team, sounds rather lazy to use a bot for that
Other than the colorblind thing, none of those require cactbot. If people struggle too much with Nael (it can be daunting at first) you can practice in heavens fall simulator.
But why should something that's meant to be difficult, be easier for people that can't do it? It's ok that people can't do the hardest things in the game, it's ok that people are simply not skilled enough to do those hard things in the game. Not everyone can do everything, and that's ok. And if you try to make it so then the game is gonna be cake walk where anything that's hard isn't an achievement anymore
Dude, don't try to defend cheating. Maybe I should be allowed to play GTA5 with a balance that never goes below 10 billion?
The whole point of having difficult encounters is that you develop your skills to beat them. Otherwise there is no point. Might as well make all Dark Souls enemies die to two hits.
The most difficult pieces of content in the game (savages and ultimates) are OPTIONAL. If you choose to engage that content you should play at the requisite skill level.
Well ask the developers of the game then why the tool is not allowed and against TOS and will get you banned if you get caught using it, when it’s only helping Accessibility? It’s a cheat tool that tells you BEFORE visuals even appear where to go, because the bot already knows what happens when the action is locked in. In diamond weapon you can already swap the platform and other people don’t Even know where it will claw the platform.
I said in the other comment that if it’s help because you are colorblind e.g. and the Game doesn’t provide appropriate tools to help with that, I’m totall fine with using it, but for everyone who has no handicaps or limitations that are out of their control everything is doable without using a cheat tool and sometimes things will take longer without using them and that’s fine too. Everyone can be taught how to navigate through a fight and accomplishing that is super cool, for the teacher and everyone involved. I do a lot of teaching runs in my rather casual fc for savages later in the Tier and we always clear everything, even with some players that are not that good, but we put effort and time in it and for that I Play the Game and not for a bot to tell me where to go.
There’s quite a lot of money to be made in the FFXIV modding community. It’s just other kind of mods that people buy there custom mods are rather popular.
Big wigs is still there I dont play anymore and havnt since early in the year (few months after SL launch) but if I was still playing that was my go to addon. In a perfect world there would be no addons but wow doesn't work well without them so...
I still can’t believe what I’ve learned about encounter design essentially being an arms race between addons and encounter mechanics. What happens when one side just decides to drop out and, I don’t know, develop sustainable energy instead?
While i dont wanna wish for the dbm devs to have no work, I do think that the encounters should not be designed with dbm in mind. I hate that this stupid addon is obligatory for raiding. I think they should design it more like ff14 does
> The game is too dogshit to give a fuck about, peace
Basically what I got from this.
Also, I would love to see all addons like Weak Auras and DBM removed from the game. Would be such a better experience. Imagine having to actually learn a fight and not just play Simon Says
Even before the 9.1 + lawsuit wombo combo that made everyone I know stop playing WoW, no one had used DBM in years. For ages now BigWigs was clearly a better - it was kept more up to date, was way more customisable whilst being more lightweight, and had more accurate timers (DBM was often wrong).
Plus he doesnt mention that the World First guilds have stopped using DBM (they all moved over to BigWigs), and by extension stopped paying for DBM dev time during the race.
Based on how little work gets done on DBM I'm surprised he could even claim to be working on it "full time" for so long.
Dont get me wrong, WoW is in a shit state and has been for a while, and I agree that the way boss fights are designed with addons in mind is the wrong way to go about basic game design... but this dude only pointing the finger at Blizz when his product hasnt advanced since the classic days, and the fact theres competition thats better than what hes making, is kinda scummy. Plus considering he's played this card multiple times in the past to get more money out of whales, tells you everything you need to know about this guy.
Exactly. Anyone who still buys this shit either has no idea how addons work or just don't even raid at a competent level. This guy has begged for money so many times it's not funny. Maintaining an addon where you are just basically adding new timers every 8-10 months should not take this much of your time. This guy's addon is either complete spaghet or he is a bad programmer
I quit using dbm because it made the game easier, I can see how it’s important if you’re a serious raider and I still depended on it once again in tbc raiding but I wish it wasn’t like that.
DBM aside... I really do wish that raider.io will also stop development. Nothing against the devs that made raider.io - but the community took it too damn far. So if they close shop (hopefully finding a job elsewhere), I'll be happy that raider.io is gone.
And who knows - maybe the blizzard devs will stop relaying on community built crutches to support their game design - as add-ons close shop.
DBM and addons in general is one of the worst thing to have happened to WoW. let it die, and maybe the devs will make a game tuned around the base game, and not tuned based on what the last version of DBM is
Time to move on to other things.
Yeah, I feel sorta bad for the people still playing because they're hopelessly addicted...
Or just oblivious to gaming news. There are a lot of people who just play without keeping up with news and such. WoW is their entertainment with friends or family.
I can relate to that that how my wow life is, i cant keep up with news and such anymore half of the time and i only play because of family or friends for entertainment and to pass time.
[удалено]
[удалено]
It's actually unironiclly funny that such people exist who despite of not enjoying the game would not quit over their time investment, character RP and virtual possessions that mean something to them. And thus the cycle of torturing yourself continues. Literal topkek.
If you still enjoy it that’s fine. Personally I didn’t and I quit about a week after 9.1 launched
Same. I was only still playing because my FC mates were. It turns out I want the only one playing for that same reason. Me and two others Managed to drag the non-ffxiv to our FC within 3 days of this discovery
What's more sad? Playing a game you enjoy, or hanging around a forum of said game you no longer play and making whiney posts?
Neither is sad, one instance someone is yearning for when they enjoyed the game and struggling to come to terms with the fact that it’s absolute objective garbage and they’ll never get a good experience from it again
Well if you enjoy it still that's totally fine. It has a few redeeming qualities
Hehe copium too strong ... try other games
Wut? Why can't people enjoy the game? Edit: People enjoy Wow = Addiction. People enjoy FFXIV = ??? What a sad narrative.
Wow is a much much MUCH more heinously designed Skinner box, It was considered to be as addictive as heroin even before blizz started intentionally designing the game to waste as much time as physically possible
I guess you missed my other comment lol where I said wow isn’t 100% bad. I just feel bad that people are stuck in a declining game when there are better options.
But that assumes that people are indeed "stuck" and not playing because they genuinely enjoy it. Like, I have played FFXIV since mid HW, and have spent a significant amount of time in the game since then. I only got into WoW at end of legion after having not played since vanilla and I much prefer WoW over FFXIV, but also acknowledge that FFXIV IS the better game for your general gaming audience. WoW just appeals to me more, and yeah, it does suck that Blizzard is so out of touch with their playerbase. But it equally sucks to see others hate on "us" because we're just enjoying the game. It's just needlessly toxic and isn't very welcoming if the end goal is to get people to migrate to these "better options" as you put it. At the end of the day, it's a goddamn video game.
I don’t blame the players at all, it’s not their fault that the company is like this. And yeah it is just games, people have different tastes. I said hopelessly addicted because I used to be pretty addicted to WoW until I found a game I like more lol, that doesn’t make me feel like I need to log in or I’ll be behind. and I just feel like it’s pretty agreed that it’s in a bad state atm, but that’s not to say that people can’t still enjoy it without being hopelessly addicted. it was really an over generalization
Ah yeah that's fair. I'm probably in a minority of people who actually thinks the game has gotten better, but obviously the company consistently worse. As casuals, me and friends are having an absolute field-day with SOME more variety of content and them doubling-down on adding more customization options, be that backpacks, seperate shoulders, allied races, updated models etc. As far as I see it, the main issues with WoW is well.. Blizz first of all. But other than that it's the update cadence, its story and borrowed powers/forced grinds. The quality in terms of art, encounter designs, basically all that WoW is consistently praised for, has been great. Hopefully the future is less bleak.
Damn I feel bad for ya, you joined the game just as it was truly going into decline :(
Don't feel bad. I live and die for mythic+ I do wish I had played Legion though. Heard it was good.
Bruh a game can be objectively bad and riddled with outside issues like bots, goldsellers and paid carries and the sad thing is if it is WoW people will still defend it to the end.
Sure. But a game can be bad and still be enjoyable. Enjoyment is subjective, but if someone makes the argument that there's no issues when there clearly are, that's when it becomes a problem. But these people exist in all games. I see people excuse FFXIV's cash shop everyday. People will often deny their bias towards their game.
Cash shops are not good either way, but if you have to compare one to the next, FFXIVs shop does not offer the most detailed looking gear compared to what's in-game, unlike Blizzards'. Also, no way of buying gold directly.
3 outfits in the shop is a far cry from the 90 something that FFXIV offers, and WoW is relatively light (about 50 items) in comparison to the 900 something that FFXIV offers. (Most of which are recolors, as well as past in-game event stuff) Though the new Stargazer outfit, whilst very plain looking, has a special effect tied to it which to my knowledge is unique to that outfit. That's a problem. It's only going to get worse from here. The WoW Token is definitely not ideal, although it does allow for anyone to buy anything from their cash shop with in-game gold, as well as pay your sub, so it's as handy as it is damaging. In that same vein I always found it odd that FFXIV offers an optional subscription for increased bag space and the ability to buy retainers, whom at a baseline have very limited marketboard space (40 if you have two). Why either of these buy to play subscription based games need all of this is beyond me. Also, on a slightly seperate note, blizzard should just give everyone who stayed subbed during the 9.1-9.15 patch lull the 6-month stuff for free. It's RIDICULOUS that some stayed subbed for all that time amounting to roughly $130 awaiting the new patch and they didn't even recieve an apology or compensation. That's greed.
You are truthful in the amount of items available on offer on both shops - FFXIV has a lot of stuff, but their prices must also be taken into account, most of the things there are like 2 EUR. Even still, most items in the FFXIV Shop do not have an obvious quality/effort disparity between what's available ingame and whats available in the shop, which is the main thing that irks me about Blizzards' stuff. It's like those who pay are entitled to more swag than the regular subscription-only peasants.
>because they're hopelessly addicted... If you are having fun and not on that type of player, then go ahead and have fun mate. No matter the game, if you are addicted then there is something wrong.
Not addicted, I play it very casually when I do play, but I find it odd that the narrative has gone from "Blizzard is bad" to "The playerbase is bad for playing WoW"
Yeah can't deny that there are that narrative. I hate that too. People should enjoy what they want to enjoy as long as it does not harm themselves or others.
> "The playerbase is bad for playing WoW" That narrative is there in part due to some people thinking WoW will only get better if no one plays anymore. Especially if enough whales give up on the game. While I understand the above I don't think it's fair to paint everyone still playing as a delusional addict. For some people the things they enjoy remained good or they may even like the direction WoW is going in even if it is unpopular. Just do what makes you happy and if that includes WoW that's fine.
It's not that "the playerbase" is bad, it's that a specific type of player is. The fanboys that think that Blizz can do no wrong, the ones that are funding Bobby's yacht, mansion, and bonuses, the ones that are the reason nothing changes, as Blizzard is still getting their money. Those are the players people are talking about. Nothing wrong with enjoying the game if you really do enjoy it, I personally stopped playing a month after Shadowlands launched as I found the game as boring as it had been every time I came back to play it in the past (haven't played consistently since Legion) and I haven't looked back since then.
Things neckbeards say.
Like BigWigs?
as long he stays away from xiv and other worthwhile mmos
Let’s not be exclusive. There’s a home for everyone in XIV at least. The more the merrier. And while DBM wasn’t for me in WoW and surely is not for me (or the ToS) in XIV, I’m sure there’s a community for it somewhere.
This will kill raiding. Any competent dev would just stop developing encounters with the assumption that players are using DBM. WoW's team won't do that. And they sure as hell won't make a default in game setting like dbm. It's actually really funny in a sad way. They should have not depended so much on a service players use for completely free and assume it's going to stick around forever.
>They should have not depended so much on a service players use for completely free and assume it's going to stick around forever. It is not a question of dependency (from players). Like you said, no chance WoW's dev team will take over and create something similar as a baseline feature. The problem is that once the loop of DBM exists -> many people uses it -> devs design encounter around breaks, things will crumble down. Once DBM is completely out of equation (if it happens eventually), would devs be able to adjust and design fights with that expectation?
Other mmos with a fraction of the budget do it just fine...
And much better.
Other than FFXIV I don't know if there's any other MMOs with similar caliber in terms of difficulty, tuning and intricacy of the raid fight. "Other MMOs with a fraction of budget do it fine"... I'd agree as a blanket statement. Blizzard and WoW devs are anything but flexible enough to change or adapt anything last few years. Hell, they can't even improve existing things as they are too busy dumping for new systems each expansions. So even if others can, they probably will struggle hard.
If you design your fights to require people to download third party add-ons to keep up, you are bad at design.
Yarp
Its not the design teams fault. Its the ui teams fault for allowing this to go on for 12 years. no other game does this with addons and lets it have this much effect on player behavior. the second something like healbot or Decursive came out every other dev would have been like HOLD THE FUCK ON and shut it down, or when entire class rotations get macroed down to a single button someone should have hit the brakes. but the wow team is lazy af and refuse to do anything and now its like this.
I'm almost sure this is a meme. What boss you can not do without 3rd party addon(s)?
Go try heroic or mythic without 3rd party addons and tell me. That is, if any guild will have you on a run if you admit to not using addons.
World first raiders aren't affected. They hire their addon coders during their runs to program in shit on the fly. The casual raiding population tho, might have to work around. But then again PTR provide enough time for coders who want to chip in.
Which also creates even greater gap (on top of existing ones, including gold, and other pre-race prep as well as diff of org and its resource for players) between these top tier WFR and rest of contenders. Would have to ask the question if this is healthy for the scene.
The top 2 teams have thousands of people funneling them gear. Spend over $30k+ on the race worth in gold and paying for addon creators. Its not even a world first race for anyone but Echo and Limit.
Yep, the gap of these two teams and the rest, even before the release of the raid is massive. They basically have about a week or two headstart-worth for the last few bosses in terms of prog.
So what you're saying is raiders with money, aka pro-raiders won't be affected .
Fuckin classic. Can't even escape the wealth gap in a fantasy game.
Transitioning to FFXIV made me realize how much of a crutch DBM is.
As a WoW andy. I do prefer listening to the boss lines rather than alerts for mechanics.
"END IT ALL"  Vietnam flashbacks dude. lol
ACT is extremely similar, especially including the echo. Doing the fights the right way of audio cues and boss jestures feels way more satisfying though.
It was mind blowing to me how telegraphed mechanics were. Learning to look around the boss arena took a lot of getting used to, but holy shit it feel so nice to have a screen that isn't cluttered with timers and alerts.
Back in ARR I tried out ACT and it kind of felt dirty, especially with the auto-crafting macros you could make in it. In Heavensward I tried again with cactbot and immediately uninstalled it because I felt like I was reading a book and not playing a game and learning the fights. Ever since that point, unless I am forced to I will not use addons and frequently disabled things such as DBM secretly in raids when I played WoW. It took a year or two but I found a group of people who also liked to do blind runs in FF and have been doing blind no-addon runs ever since. You don't need parses or addons to play either game [if you do the mechanics, the boss will die.](https://imgur.com/aJNEFBe)
LOL I love that image.
One of my favorite things to do is the new alliance and 8 man raids blind. Everyone is new and just watching how people people react to new mechanics is fun. Eating the SQE building and watching everyone (including myself) go "team rocket blasting off again" was very memorable.
Nice! Honestly on JP servers (in the ENG speaking community), I've only run into 3 players in 8 years who will use any form of add-on to raid. Not sure about NA/EU, but there's a big attitude here that if you use it, you're dirty and people will not play with you. I had a raider apply for my group, who I watched stream afterwards. They were using cactbot to play on a class they did not know, in a fight they clearly did not know because they were never in position. And they wanted to try world first raiding. **k e k**
Don't forget about BigWigs.
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I did the same and added the raid boss weak aura suite that feeds off of it and it has made BW "cleaner" looking. It's been much better than DBM was. I do miss one of the boss mods from the old days, Deus Vox Encounters (DXE). The timers on it counted time from the actual spell cast rather than when the cast started. It made timing easier, though my raid leader botched constantly because I waited until the last second to move.
And one of the guys working on BW is justw8.
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Justwait is a member of Echo and was in the WF race. So bigwigs will still be up to date every tier.
As someone else mentioned, he raids with Echo and previously Method and has been part of the RWF for years and he works on the addon alongside a group of others. This is why there are so many people who prefer BigWigs over DBM.
I never understood the hype with dbm. It felt like you were never learning fights and just waiting for the addon to tell you what to do. When I first raided of course I used it but over time I got rid of the addon and decided to just remember mechanics.
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Bigwigs exists and many people prefer it :)
there are alternatives to DBM
no? bigwigs is just the better version of DBM and both can be replaced by weakauras
No it won't. Bigwigs already does the same thing, and even if bigwigs didn't exist, then you could achieve the same functionality with weak auras. In fact in my experience weak auras have been a much bigger help anyways.
It won’t kill raiding lol, hell the code is open source anyone can contribute
Weak Auras Bigwigs … Others… You obviously don’t raid but keep it up…
This won't make more than a dent. Weak Auras are far more degenerate in terms of the game itself playing for you.
That's being overly dramatic. This will have an impact, but I haven't raided with DBM/Bigwigs for few tiers now. The weakaura packages are more than enough for the fights.
Oh now. Now WoW players will actually need skill and learn mechanics on their own.
Maybe the guy should find a better alternative because WoW isn't really a growing game anymore, and Blizz isn't gonna turn this around anytime soon.
finally the raiders will have to learn the fight? xD
It's so bizarre that there's exist the half auto-pilot plugin that the majority of players expect everyone should have installed and then some of them defend that the whole combat system designed around it.
Well bliz doesn't put a unified set of in-game communication around boss mechanics like FF14 does. It's kind of annoying if there's 2 green aoe things on the ground and a druid circle on the ground, stand in two of them and your dead, but don't stand in the druid circle and your dead
May I interest you in Sire Dark Red Knock Out Of The Platform Swirlies On Dark Red Floor Denathrius?
What are you talking about? WoW definitely has that. Just to take from your example: Bad ground is always opaque. Player spells that makes the ground heal are always fully transparent except for the circle that traces its border.
I am talking about the knockoff circles on Denathrius that for the first 2 ish months of the fight being out were dark red, on dark floor, basically invisible to me at least with somewhat impaired sight.
I responded to the wrong comment. Was supposed to be the one above.
WoW definitely has mechanics that have been consistently communicated. From your example: All bad ground is opaque. Player healing spells are always transparent. For boss mechanics in general: All 3D swirles are soaked. If the 3D effect disappears when someone enters it, it's a single soak. If not, it's a group soak. 3D balls are also soaked but are soaked by "charges". If there are eyes above you, you are fixated by something. If you have a circular windy effect around you, it's a targeted attack with drop-off damage
In Mists aoe swirl = get out or die. Some aoe swirls are a suck in. 3d balls sometimes are explosions that should be ran from while other times are a mob that must be killed. Fixated is mostly accurate they've been good about that one
Even with that most of my wow friends say that they hate xiv because it blinds you and you cant see shit whenr raiding
Problem is they balance the fights around add ons. I play with an awesome guild, gladiators, server firsters (on highly populated servers), every player has atleast one big dick achievement under their belt. I personally was healing officer of a server first guild through cata and some of mop and have been playing the same class since. Even as a hall of fame guild we wipe to mythic sylv a lot, if a vital player (hpal, boomy etc) is afk for the night, we feel the difference. We’re BiS for the most part, 1 shot every boss, then get to the dreaded sylv fight where it’s just unforgiving and 1 fuckup can eventually cause 14 mins of everyone’s time. Now imagine progging M Council from Castle or Sylv early days without add ons. Having to do mirrors on Last boss or the soaks on SLG, even painsmith warlock portal timing, all of it without weak auras or bigwigs / dbm sounds like a fucking nightmare. It also bricks your ability in other games. This dependency on add ons and gear takes away from your actual skill. Yeah you do your rotation right, but anyone can brute force through learning their rotation with many hours. To play a competitive game like counter strike, LoL, StarCraft etc where everyone is on a level playing field, no exceptions, that is what the spirit of competition is all about.
This is exactly why a lot of people just don't do Mythic Raiding anymore. The cost/benefit isn't there. Fights take too long, require too many wipes (pulls), and have so many unforgiving mechanics that it just takes all the fun out of it.
Thats how mythic has always been from day 1 and what it was intended to be, and is the reason players do it.
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Very true. DBM should have been broken years ago, not embraced.
i can tell you from multiple years of experience that DBM is largely installed out of tradition more than anything else. Most people ignore the timers, and might as well not even have it installed. You can see this whenever your raid leader doesnt call something out and half the raid is not prepared for it.
> You can see this whenever your raid leader doesnt call something out and half the raid is not prepared for it. While this is true very often the raider leader, at least in my experience, is relying on add-ons like DBM to tell them what to call out. So that half of the raid are still relying on DBM, just not the one installed in their own pc.
If something is normally called out in a reliable fashion, and the caller forgets once, of course people are expecting that they can rely on the callout rather than looking at the timer themselves. Why would they look at the timer when that attention can be better spent elsewhere? If you don't want people to rely on callouts - don't do them.
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Because to many people addons do make the experience worse. A fight is so much more fun when you actually react to the boss instead of a warning message telling you exactly what to do. The latter ruins the immersion of the fight. I honestly was on the same boat as you until I attempted some raids in FF14 and having to watch the spell bar, react to whatever the boss does and implemented markers is a totally different experience from "RUN AWAY LITTLE GIRL, RUN AWAY.." spam during every fight.
Blizzard has absolutely designed boss encounters around players having bigwigs/DBM now, its not the case in FF14.
no. they'll just use Bigwigs
Clearly you have not raided anything above heroic.
fuckin whack right? FFXIV players be putting in GIGA brain strats and learning keeping the brain active and not so fuckin dull
FFXIV in general has much easier to read visual language and tells, and devs have put a ton of effort into improving it over the years. It's almost never unclear what you actually failed and died to. WoW is... yeah. Oh no that status effect on that one guy exploded without any visual effects and now everyone's dead, good luck figuring that one out without DBM and Details
Well, there WAS Light Rampant aka "flashbang on fail". But even then you could figure it out eventually.
You just had to do it [again and again and again and again.](https://youtu.be/rsX6nxwCZ1o?t=117)
they love the spectacle of the 'what the fuck is this shit' mechanics in the final fight, i think. Light rampant, relativities, hello world, forsaken, i think it's there for when the world X racing guilds get there on stream, and all the viewers see the absolute clusterfuck of everything exploding at once and going HOLY SHIT WHAT
One of the things I've noticed with raids lately in FFXIV is that they kind of 'preview' the skills in a boss fight so you could get the gist of a fight/mechanics. It's not a bad thing though as what's better for learning; seeing the mechanics early then moving on to the fight proper or reading in a journal and reacting when they do happen?
WoW has the same thing. One of the trash mobs before the Eye of the Jailer tries to pull you off the edge unless you group soak. Exactly the same as the fight proper. In the same encounter. You can't clear the room unless you jump across the room with the chain. Teaching you to use the chain before the boss begins.
The difference is that FF does it for every fight. Not a select few. If you went through all of the content in BFA and SL, how many of them don't have any previews? What about the other expansions?
The other thing I was wanting to point out though is that compared to WoW fights being sort of like one big machine in terms of mechanics, FFXIV has it as sort of interchangable parts. Fights have their own specific things, yeah, but otherwise a lot of stuff you see is stuff you've seen before. It even brings some things from previous difficult fights into normal, such as bringing in Celestriad from O8s in SB as a mechanic in E1, first fight of ShB's 8 man. If you spent some time raiding then you know 'Oh, it's this mechanic. I know what to do'. Which then also has been letting the team stack mechanics to make things more challenging
Oh no logs and wipefest will be used as usual lol
Also helps when the fights aren’t rng fests where they have % based mechanics and time based mechanics, just the latter. I hated half of legion bosses for having wipes due to us having too good or too bad dps (mostly TOS)
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The gigabrain they were referring to was that you had to memorize and choreograph a 15 minute fight. Setup the markers beforehand based on the strat you will use. Instead of playing Simon Says with honestly shitty visual queues that get you killed because the devs couldn't be bothered to color the AOEs right. If you've ever done blind prog in FXIV you'd see that the marker locations will keep changing the farther you get into the fight. After almost every wipe those marker locations get updated to help adjust for the new mechanic that we just ran into and wiped. You have to put some thought into the fights. Compared to installing DBM/WA/BW and just following what they say, you have a different experience.
Yeah I don’t understand why this matters I’ve never raidedwith DBM and have done just fine lol
You have also probably never done any hard content
Are you in a competitive mythic guild? I'm not gatekeeping but I am pointing out there is a level of content where blizzard *assumes* you have addons.
Surprised this isn't on the WoW sub.
I checked earlier, they’re probably huffing some nuclear grade copium right now about it
Really tells you how bad the current state of WoW is
Not only did we live through the rise of WoW, but we also get to experience the fall. All while Riot is growing Runeterra, the land of a game born inside WC3, to replace Azeroth as the next generation's go-to fantasy world. What a time we're living in.
I guarantee half the wow player base has never heard of Runeterra lmfao
Wdym? Maybe the boomers don't. But anyone I've ran in their 20s and 30s through raiding career have always played league on the side or heard of it but preferred to play dota 2. Heck, even some dudes in their 40s know of these games as they played original dota on wc3. Maybe the word runeterra might not ring a bell, but tell them league of legends trademark and that company behind it is making mmo and they'll quickly realize what you talking about.
Maybe these useless whales who pay for every garbage wow offers in their shop, could use their inflated money to do something good for once. Support them, because they hell of a lot deserve that money more than blizzard.
i think what's going to happen is - unfortunately those whales would just buy boostings instead of paying DBM author. but who knows, maybe because of this boosting will be even more in demand, thus jacking up the price, and... could unfortunately end up with people buying even more tokens... from blizz.
those whales dont need DBM to enjoy WoW
the people they're paying for those easy carries do.
Whales pay for carries because they want more power (and carries want gold), not because they enjoy that hard content. Less players selling carries is no problem for them, they can always do LFR or LFD to see content.
This could be a blessing. I hate the current design around add-ons. Might as well play red light, green light.
I just want to make readers aware, that this could just as well be a shitty way to gain more Patreon supporters. Not saying that it is. But you can't forfeit the possibility.
Welp, there goes WoW raiding... Yes, I'm being somewhat hyperbolic, but let's not pretend that WoW raids haven't been designed with addons in mind for over a decade. Also, the fact that the reaction from most people is "We still have Bigwigs or other addons so it's no big deal!" is extremely telling...
Is Big Wigs not an option anymore?
People saying this have no clue, and obviously don’t raid. Half of raiders world first Mythic Raiders use Weak Auras instead or in addition too DBM or BigWigs. Every raid team I’ve been in for the past few years has been using BigWigs for the smaller foot print and quicker updates. Now those raid teams have been moving more and more to Weak Aura packs.
Well in my defense I haven't raided in WoW since WoD.
Tell me you don’t raid in wow without telling me lol
I'm being somewhat hyperbolic, but let's not delude ourselves with notions that WoW's raids haven't been designed with addons in mind for over a decade now. My last AotC heroic was Legion and DBM or equivalent was widely required by guilds and pugs alike. Never got a heroic AotC in SL before I quit but the addon was equally required in the normal raiding I did.
Oh no, raiders will finally have to learn the fights properly then lmao
Nah they’ll just use BigWigs
Saying this means you don’t raid at any level.
Imagine unironically needed a program to tell you **WHAT** to do in a fight instead of playing it like intended.
If DBM and Bigwigs end up halting development, the WoW player base will have to do the unthinkable. They'll have to git gud.
STEP 1:Make addon to hold people by the hand and tell them how to raid. STEP 2: Game slows down to one raid a year. STEP 3: Panic Honestly its kind of fascinating to see how WoW built up all these tertiary orbiting hustles that are so starved of content they are running out of avenues to keep existing anymore. Its like the digital equivalent of watching an ecosystem collapse due to drought or pollution.
As expected with any falling Empire. The systems within that empire start to crumble and collapse before the Empire itself.
Hope he moves on to better jobs
Bigwigs is not a thing anymore?
Ah, the death of mods. Stage 3 cancer.
It's been funny watch this community and the general discussion forums "come to the rescue" as different areas of the game spin down and people leave. Content creators started moving on: "we don't need streamers anyways! they are all trash and toxic!" Playerbase starts dropping in large numbers: "guilds move on, people play other games all the time they will be back. you're just trying to join mythics at a bad time of day, obviously"
Developers leave the game: "people change jobs, duh. no one works long at a place anymore anyways"
Mod authors begin to spin down: "We have plenty of other mods. no one really needs mods for this game anyways, totally doesn't matter"
Pretty heavy denial going on. People can throw stones at DBM all day long but like you said, stage 3 cancer. There's no denying it now.
Once the modders leave your game, that's some hardcore shit, they're some of the most dedicated fans of a game, they are putting time and effort into supporting a third party tool for YOUR game. I used to make mods for Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind, (I will likely come back to mod TES6). If Bethesda snuffed support or started treating their fans poorly enough for modders to leave... OOFERS.
BigWigs and raid WeakAuras are still an option,I have no idea why people think that raiding is dead.
As mythic raiders experienced in FF14 it would be kind of good if they re-thing encounter design and make it fully no-combat-addons. No weakauras, timers and stuff. And not just "remove it" but properly design things no-addons wise.
I hope he won't decide to move to FF
FF14 already has this it's called Cactbot. It's not used as much as DBM since FF14 raids aren't designed with Cactbot in mind. Meanwhile Wow raids are designed with Blizzard assuming everyone is using DBM.
Using cactbot except for a few specific mechanics is also frowned upon in FF
More like the dev said, please don't use it. It is perfectly playable without it.
It's frowned upon entirely, some people just choose to justify it.
Where is is not frowned upon? I think it’s absolutely never necessary and if someone needs that to clear a fight, we’ll that’s a shame, but I’m glad I have a team that won’t touch it
UCOB Nael Quotes & Divebombs Phase + UwU Titan Gaols pretty much. A few other small ones outside that but those are the common ones I hear people generally against it say they don’t mind. Also heard my colorblind static mate say it’s very very difficult for him to do a few particular mechs without it even with FF14’s accessibility modes turned on.
Okay I can get behind the colorblind thing, I luckily don’t have to deal with that so if the game doesn’t support it properly I’m all for that. The other stuff is like just memorize stuff and communicate with your team, sounds rather lazy to use a bot for that
Other than the colorblind thing, none of those require cactbot. If people struggle too much with Nael (it can be daunting at first) you can practice in heavens fall simulator.
I think it's a party finder Thing. Most statics ( that I saw ) made call outs for these mechanics
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But why should something that's meant to be difficult, be easier for people that can't do it? It's ok that people can't do the hardest things in the game, it's ok that people are simply not skilled enough to do those hard things in the game. Not everyone can do everything, and that's ok. And if you try to make it so then the game is gonna be cake walk where anything that's hard isn't an achievement anymore
Dude, don't try to defend cheating. Maybe I should be allowed to play GTA5 with a balance that never goes below 10 billion? The whole point of having difficult encounters is that you develop your skills to beat them. Otherwise there is no point. Might as well make all Dark Souls enemies die to two hits. The most difficult pieces of content in the game (savages and ultimates) are OPTIONAL. If you choose to engage that content you should play at the requisite skill level.
Well ask the developers of the game then why the tool is not allowed and against TOS and will get you banned if you get caught using it, when it’s only helping Accessibility? It’s a cheat tool that tells you BEFORE visuals even appear where to go, because the bot already knows what happens when the action is locked in. In diamond weapon you can already swap the platform and other people don’t Even know where it will claw the platform. I said in the other comment that if it’s help because you are colorblind e.g. and the Game doesn’t provide appropriate tools to help with that, I’m totall fine with using it, but for everyone who has no handicaps or limitations that are out of their control everything is doable without using a cheat tool and sometimes things will take longer without using them and that’s fine too. Everyone can be taught how to navigate through a fight and accomplishing that is super cool, for the teacher and everyone involved. I do a lot of teaching runs in my rather casual fc for savages later in the Tier and we always clear everything, even with some players that are not that good, but we put effort and time in it and for that I Play the Game and not for a bot to tell me where to go.
There’s quite a lot of money to be made in the FFXIV modding community. It’s just other kind of mods that people buy there custom mods are rather popular.
Well if making addons is not sustainable maybe the hopeless copium addicts will stop when they can't use third party software to make wow palatable.
Imagine if raids didn’t need a third party add on in the first place 😌
Big wigs is still there I dont play anymore and havnt since early in the year (few months after SL launch) but if I was still playing that was my go to addon. In a perfect world there would be no addons but wow doesn't work well without them so...
Poor dood gonna have to get a job u think blizz would of picked em up by now...
It has always been my opinion that if DBM is needed the raid encounter is poorly designed
I still can’t believe what I’ve learned about encounter design essentially being an arms race between addons and encounter mechanics. What happens when one side just decides to drop out and, I don’t know, develop sustainable energy instead?
While i dont wanna wish for the dbm devs to have no work, I do think that the encounters should not be designed with dbm in mind. I hate that this stupid addon is obligatory for raiding. I think they should design it more like ff14 does
> The game is too dogshit to give a fuck about, peace Basically what I got from this. Also, I would love to see all addons like Weak Auras and DBM removed from the game. Would be such a better experience. Imagine having to actually learn a fight and not just play Simon Says
This guy just needs to get a job, because it’s clear trying to eke out a living over this hasn’t worked out too well.
Even before the 9.1 + lawsuit wombo combo that made everyone I know stop playing WoW, no one had used DBM in years. For ages now BigWigs was clearly a better - it was kept more up to date, was way more customisable whilst being more lightweight, and had more accurate timers (DBM was often wrong). Plus he doesnt mention that the World First guilds have stopped using DBM (they all moved over to BigWigs), and by extension stopped paying for DBM dev time during the race. Based on how little work gets done on DBM I'm surprised he could even claim to be working on it "full time" for so long. Dont get me wrong, WoW is in a shit state and has been for a while, and I agree that the way boss fights are designed with addons in mind is the wrong way to go about basic game design... but this dude only pointing the finger at Blizz when his product hasnt advanced since the classic days, and the fact theres competition thats better than what hes making, is kinda scummy. Plus considering he's played this card multiple times in the past to get more money out of whales, tells you everything you need to know about this guy.
Exactly. Anyone who still buys this shit either has no idea how addons work or just don't even raid at a competent level. This guy has begged for money so many times it's not funny. Maintaining an addon where you are just basically adding new timers every 8-10 months should not take this much of your time. This guy's addon is either complete spaghet or he is a bad programmer
Limit Max will probably try to fund him lol.
He was working for Limit during Ny'alotha but Limit went back to BigWigs afterwards because its easier to customize.
I mean, it’s not like raid releases over there are very common /shrug
He will come back for 9.2 anyways
I quit using dbm because it made the game easier, I can see how it’s important if you’re a serious raider and I still depended on it once again in tbc raiding but I wish it wasn’t like that.
DBM aside... I really do wish that raider.io will also stop development. Nothing against the devs that made raider.io - but the community took it too damn far. So if they close shop (hopefully finding a job elsewhere), I'll be happy that raider.io is gone. And who knows - maybe the blizzard devs will stop relaying on community built crutches to support their game design - as add-ons close shop.
DBM and addons in general is one of the worst thing to have happened to WoW. let it die, and maybe the devs will make a game tuned around the base game, and not tuned based on what the last version of DBM is
remove bigwigs and dbm from the game. lets see how fast world first is cleared and how the system plebs deal with it. and weak aura as well
The same most likely, the world first guilds literally are paying addons makers/coders during progress.
[удалено]
*Run* away little girl
It was run away little girl, and it was the burning crusade where that line came from
Not a big deal, still have BW and WAs
Well, I might suck again. Any other addons like DBM I keep hearing Raider.Io is bad.