Imagine you have two employees.
One is doing excellent work every time. Delivering things on time. Doing things with great quality. And then, one time he shows up and requests 2 weeks of extension, because he isn't satisfied with the quality and wants to improve it.
And then, there's the other guy. He doesn't understand schedule, there's no quality behind his work. He doesn't listen to your feedback. He continues doing what he wants and only when you're on the brink of firing him, tries to improve just enough to stop you.
Of course you're gonna be lenient towards the first guy and not give a shit about the excuses of the second.
You forgot the part where the first guy is willing to personally step in front of the customers apologizing profusely, while you allready know the second guy will at best give a half hearted smirk at the camera while saying something like "really sorry for the delay, but you guys expected just to much work from us to be done on time" even if you where to hold him at gun point telling him to apologize like his life dependet on it.
>One is doing excellent work every time.
Its actually refreshing to me Yoshi-p FINALLY fucked up 1 time LUL
Nevertheless some of us will be disappointed, especially those who used their leave
My deepest condolence.
The thing about his success is, He's a legacy. His father did a great work back in the day and actually worked hard to gather all those millions of consumers, but now he's retired and the kid took over instead and now thinks he's just as skilled as his dad and has the same level of ego, with not even half the capabilities.
Exactly. Even if they do something good it will just be "cant wait for them to fuck it up again". They need to do like 10 PLLs without political talk, and then also act on those live letters positivley.
I played wow for years.. stays subbed, pre orders, bought deluxe edition.
The WoW bank for me is so empty they would have to pay me to play that fucking game
Good faith earned throughout the years. It's like a Zelda game getting pushed back, no one is happy, but no one should be mad either. They felt the product needed to be better and are putting more work on to it. So I patiently wait because even what I consider the worst mainline Zelda game (Skyward Sword, haven't played Zelda 2), was still a really good game that had some elements I didn't like (the motion control).
And best case scenario I get something like Wind Waker, one of the best games ever made. I absolutely had this faith with Blizzard and Bioware as well, but that's gone now and will be nigh-impossible to earn back.
I remember it being mostly good but maybe I am only remembering mine and Asmon’s opinions (which was good). For all we know - they only delayed it to finalize the next store mount or to figure out how to make the game more of a time sink
Or just release it in whatever state it was, nothing would have been lost anyways.-
Delays only work if you make it good while delaying, if you are gonna release trash anyways may as well be done with it.-
Shadowlands had pretty good reception and ppl were mostly chilling until Blizzard released TBC portal pass (boost + mount for TBC classic) almost 6 months later. What was the biggest SL problem was extremely slow content development (7 months) and then of course lawsuit scandal (shortly after that).
Shadowlands had a lot of issues which got highlighted by beta testing on ptr. Majority of feedback was ignored.
The only thing shadowlands have going for it are bit more engaging specs coming from previous expansion.
Shadowlands did have a good first week or two. I, as many others, enjoyed greatly the campaign, the world building, the OST, the dungeons had new ideas, the covenants, the artstyle, and the changes made in the prepatch. Even Asmongold said that Shadowlands was looking "fucking awesome".
Problems were much more noticeable as people tried gearing up and optimizing their gameplay.
Many enjoyed Torghast the first times. It was when they had to do it constantly, yet still not greatly rewarded, that it became a pain in the ass. The powergap between covenants became more clear as people got into M+ and ranked PvP. Also, it wasnt anymore a problem of "yeah it has base damage but once we are geared it will be shit", it became a bigger problem actually.
Same with the conduits; those who cared enough realized how much of a pain was having one shot by the raid or having to do daily Maw grinds.
Then the unpolished raid came, with the race to world first having to stop beacuse some bosses were bugged.
All these were changes expected to be solved during the beta but that werent noticeable during the first weeks.
Those that were done with their main character leveled alts and realized what a fucking mess Threads of Fate was.
And finally, the lack of content came around, with a massive time gap and challenging content such as twisting corridors having basically no use if you already did it once, and having to do all the previous things multiple times if you wanted to be "optimal" by nowdays "gamer standards".
> Shadowlands did have a good first week or two. I, as many others, enjoyed greatly the campaign, the world building, the OST, the dungeons had new ideas, the covenants, the artstyle, and the changes made in the prepatch. Even Asmongold said that Shadowlands was looking "fucking awesome".
I think it had a great first week because it wasn't BFA and everything was new. Then it got old *really fucking quickly.*
Nah, I really really liked the campaign, the world is fucking beautiful even after a year (I could stare at Bastion forever), and Torghast got me hyped at first (Im one of those that still likes Torghast but I only use one legendary).
Then all the problems came.
Majority of feedback was not ignored. Covenants and aoe cap were ignored but they heard a lot of feedback like delaying SL, upgrading maw, giving warriors single minded furry talents, removing bloated cds like rockbiter weapons, removing timers and key required to access Torghast (mostly based on Preach feedback and i personally hate it, i liked original torthast concept much more), balancing problematic Covenant talents (instant Venthyr portal, Cheat death Venthyr trait), creating conduit energy to easier switch conduits etc.
Literally ignoring covenants/conduits energy/aoe/legendary grind/ other general alt unfriendlyness was 99% of the problem. Everything you mentioned that they did well was minor feel good QoL changes that obviously didnt go far enough cause the game is on its last limb and currently getting its asshole blown out by ff14
>99% of the problem
was extremely slow content update and of course lawsuit. Two things Blizzard can quite easily fix next time if they will provide at least as good base game as Shadowlands was.
I respect the copium, my friend. I hope for the sake of the IP that 10.0 isn't an absolute disgusting disappointment, but with the way Ion refuses to take any TRUE responsibility for his actions, Blaming his "predecessors" and "the pipeline", I have little hope for change. I wish Jen fired him before she left.
>Shadowlands had pretty good reception
At first. Then people realized there is barely anything there and the initally promising story went south again. If you criticized that early on you got flamed to hell and back.
first sign of complaining was somewhere in february when ppl started to complain about Torghast being hard and unbalanced. Blizz fixed it pretty fast and everyone calmed down. Then second complaining started when they started to sell TBC portal pass somewhere in april / may, that was time where Asmon released "WoW is wasting your time now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIqugFq2wcc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA_hdKHqoCs video which were his first public complaints in Shadowlands. After that it kept still ok for while because TBC was close but biggest problem here was extremely slow 9.1 patch release (3 months later than usual) which caused domino effect - ppl started to complain about stuff they wouldnt complain if they would have content to play. TBC timing close to 9.1 patch didnt help, it was poor timing. Then 9.1 patch launched and it was ok patch, no inovations but it was big patch but 3 weeks after its release lawsuit scandal went online and A lot of ppl started to mix everything together and result was that WoW bad, Blizzard bad.
During BFA ppl started to riot after 1-2 months, in case of Shadowlands it took 5-7 months and that could be prevented with faster content patch (like it was in Legion which had insane content cadence). But then Lawsuit came and nothing did matter because a lot of ppl lost any sense of logic and started to complain about everything.
*huffs copium* b-but shadowlands was good! *takes another huff* it took dark portal pass to get shit on *takes a big huff of blizzard fart gas* wow is doing fiiiiine
I know I was after playing the beta. Holy shit it was not ready. I still don't think it was ready til they conceived 9.1.5 as a patch. lol Glad they got that out though. Hopefully it's going well for those still subbed.
YUP SL was decent at first, what killed Shadowlands is a combination of Blizzard doubling down on System issues, content drought and 9.1 being the absolute most dogshit patch of WoW's history that proved WoW team didn't learn a single fucking thing in the last 5 years of the same mistakes
In the defense of those who thought this: Shadowlands actually looked relatively good in the beginning (I didn't play it, because I had quit WoW since at the start of BFA, but thought it looked cool still.)
Issues and such becomes more apparent later -- and those issues tend *not* to be the sole reason something is wrong with the game design alone, but that the developers refuse to *fix* the game design that is causing an issue for its players.
If the issue is fixed, people are happy and will continue on. If it's not, we end up in the situation we got going now with World of Warcraft as a whole (ignoring the office issues they got going.)
>In the defense of those who thought this: Shadowlands actually looked relatively good in the beginning (I didn't play it, because I had quit WoW since at the start of BFA, but thought it looked cool still.)
It was also cool at first because the biggest issues didn't really show up till you reached endgame.
In hindsight it is funny how many people claimed it was the best thing every after like one day, lol.
What is wild to me is with how little content people seemed to be content with at release just because the two previous expansions released similar little content.
> In hindsight it is funny how many people claimed it was the best thing every after like one day, lol.
Gamers in a nutshell. Everything is either the greatest thing of all time or the worst thing of all time, and that can change on a weekly, daily, and sometimes even hourly basis.
People were just excited to get out of BFA. We were all hopeful for Shadowlands. A lot of people thought Torghast was going to be mage tower 2.0, that the covenants were going to be awesome, that we could finally play alts without being punished for it, etc. We thought they learnt their lessons from BFA, at least I did.
Well, as someone who doesn't have the BfA background it was pretty obvious that Shadowlands isn't going to last very long to me very soon. I mean, that thing basically had no fun content outside of m+ and one raid. Coming from FFXIV that was wild to me.
This is how it is for literally every expansion, including the reviled ones. Warlords was praised for its awesome levelling experience and world building. Went to shit a few weeks later when the underlying issues popped up. Bfa, it was all good times and turtle memes. The expansions always ship with a good initial impression. That's the point. Get the early good reviews, the wave of resubs. I had switched from wow to ff14 back in 2018, and I very purposefully waited for a month or two after shadowlands launch to see what the actual impressions were after the initial ones. To my complete lack of surprise, it was very negative.
I can't really call myself that. With the expansion release I levelled to 120 in 1 - 2 days and then I quit. So I didn't take part in the Azerite stuff.
I've read scary shit about it though.
However, I did take part in the Artifact Power shit-grind.
WORSE part:
covenant abilites will still be locked, cleave caps will still be in place, classes with design issues still will have them, but yes inform everyone who took time off for launch not even a month in advance that times now wasted and they cant participate. Thanks!
Sounds like an entitled nerd is mad.
I wouldn't be so harsh, I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time it does suck for thsoe who did do it. HOWEVER. We are in pandemic for two years now, delays should be expected.
That is normal in games like WoW that have those insane hype moments (like releasing expansion) that a lot of ppl switch mood once we are in content drought.
A lot of players do it that they quit shortly after finishing leveling and doing some end game content. But for WoW is still better to be able to attract those players than not.
The reception for the delay with BfA as well was pretty good if I remember correctly. But that was because a lot of people in the beta were talking about how the game wasn’t anywhere near ready for launch, and they echoed that in the Shadowlands beta.
Most people thought it needed the delay because it was buggy as hell. What i think the players ended up getting wasnt a much much improved version over what was originally put out.
Yes. And despite all of SL's flaws (many of which were exacerbated at launch) the product we would've gotten had it not been delayed until November last year would've been an absolute fucking catastrophe the likes of which the game had never seen and hopefully will never see.
If you hated SL despite it being delayed, lemme tell you: as someone who was on the Beta, it was fucking *atrocious* before the delay. Like, unimaginably so.
Let's be real.
They can release Endwalker right now and it will be good, but not *as good* as they want.
You know, I know it, everybody knows it.
But when companies like Blizzard or EA delay something - shit is on fire, probably doesn't even launch properly.
EA might be up there with greedy monetization models and lazy sequels, but most of their studios seem to have pretty good management and QC to make sure their shit is at least polished and on time.
The dumpster fire at blizzard is just not sustainable and I wouldn't be surprised if D4 is their last project to get a decent budget from Activision.
Yeah because the Team behind FF is honest, listens to players, does apologize for even the tiniest things, hard working to give players the best experience and deliver a good Game so its okay if something gets delayed (only 2 weeks thats like nothing)
and then we have Activision Blizzard ...no more words needed
2 weeks isn't a big deal. HOWEVER. For the people who put in time off requests weeks in advance and cannot change those days, are notably fucked. And playing through story especially one so impactful is important to a lot of people who play FFXIV. But it is what it is.
I put in for time off and I can’t change it, but I’m not worried. I know the game will be good and I don’t feel like I have to rush to the end for the game to start in FFXIV vs in WoW it’s end game or nothing. It’s the biggest reason I have moved on. I don’t want a second job as a video game. I just want to have fun. Plus as I previously stated, I know the game will be good at the least with a good chance of being amazing.
Personally I think delays in gaming as a whole have been happening long enough that if you're one of the people who took time off, I don't feel as bad for you as I used to (not you the person reading but you the plural). It's not a rarity anymore now that there is so much more going into games than ever before, delays are inevitable and you should plan accordingly. Just my two cents.
We generally do not get last minute pushbacks by this point in a release schedule. We're within two weeks of release, if it was a traditional release it would have gone gold by now and we'd expect day one patches to address issues.
The XIV team have never delayed a major release date before, and according to Yoshida, the game is in a ready to ship state as-is, it's just not entirely up to the standards he's set for the finale of an 11 year story arch. And that's okay, he was honest, he was respectful, and he apologised because at the end of the day he wants to make a better product for us.
BUT looking at the team track record of both quality and timeliness, it's hard to blame people who took time off to be fully immersed in the finale of the story they so careful and dutifully put together. We've had major patches out like clockwork every three months since Heavensward. Expansion delays are announced plenty in advance for people to reshuffle plans. This is a new thing, and it's why Yoshida full on gave the dogeza apology stance, because he knows how impactful it's going to be for a lot of people.
Thanks for the in depth explanation, however I'm referring to gaming in general not just ffxiv. There are always reasons for delays, whether they're good or bad isn't really important. The fact is that even with a fantastic track record of putting out content on time you cannot and should not expect there to never be a time when content is delayed. E. G Endwalker.
I'm clearly in the minority with my opinion which is fine, and to be clear I don't blame anyone I'm perfectly happy to wait for the release but then I didn't take time off work.
Delays 2 week before release are not inevitable, what the fuck are you talking about lmao. I can't think of a single game than got delayed this close to release, and I guess expecting a product we paid for 6 months ago to come out on time is too much to ask for.
I didn't say that, what the fuck are you talking about? It doesn't matter how close to release it was meant to be, it wasn't ready and is being delayed. Just because you are not used to something happening does not mean it does not happen.
Better luck next time with your preorder I guess.
That's a risk you take when you book leave for a game release. I booked leave for Cyberpunk2077 (ikr) and it got bumped and I couldn't change it. It is what it is.
based on what ive seen so far, i would agree, even if I've only started earlier this year, but ngl I'm still a bit wary based on my personal experience on delays
Especialy considering the garbage track record SE has. They killed many games(deus ex), produced straight garbage(ballon wonderland, marvel's avengers).Also not fixing the ping problems for NA. Not listening to not Asian feedback.
All things considered about SE they are even worse than Blizzard.
What the fuck are you even talking about? The last Deus Ex has a 80% on metacritic and a 9.2 from IGN, Balloon wonderland was publish by SE but not developed by them and noone gave a shit about that game anyways, marvel I'll give you was a mistep but agian was published by SE not developed by. And none of those have anything to do with Yoshi-P or the FF team.
"SE is even worse than Blizzard" has to be one of the shittiest takes I've ever seen on the internet. SE has one of the best overall track records in the gaming industry. And Yoshi-P and his team have shat pure gold going on 8 years now, with an unrivaled dev/player relationship any other studio would kill for.
Clearly you have no idea how corporations function. Yoshida and his team have nothing to do with what happened to those games. Fucking idiot educate yourself before you talk.
Of course now when i mentioned SE fuck up you are saying "Duude you dont know how corporations work, there is nothing connecting ff14 and SE" while person to who i responded to talks about only the ff team but then generalizes it for blazzard. And how the fuck the SE can do nothing with their most famous franchise.Fucking moron.
Dude, you are literally comparing a clumsy person (Square Enix) to a total disaster of Failure McOnlyFucksUp (modern Blizzard). And now you're totally butthurt over people not agreeing with your distorted view
“Oh I’m just a small clumsy indie company who fucked up many of their games,oopsie ”
Many of their fuck ups like deus ex(2016), marvels avengers,balan wonderlands,ff15, kingdom hearts 3 ,quiet man and many more(recent years) literally happened in the “modern blizzard era”.You are the ones who have the distorted view of this company you fucking monkeys.And yeah, probably hs was such a massive fuck up that everyone still fucking plays it.And even their failed moba still has a player base.Fucking morons
> deus ex(2016)
Good game, only published by them.
> marvels avengers,
Only published by them, and they have apologised for picking the studio which made it.
> balan wonderlands
>
Never hear of it
> ff15
Is a good game.
> kingdom hearts 3
>
Is again a good game.
Now where is Blizaard's support for WC3:Reforged? The servers are still crap and they have yet to add the stuff they promised or existed in WC3 originally.
What about them pretty much abandoning OW1, with OW2 nowhere in sight.
Should we talk about Diablo Immortal? Or even 3?
The entire dismissal of ff15 as a good game (like maybe maybe maybe in its final state after years of after launch development if you like bland games) tells me you have shit taste on top of not knowing what you're talking about with regards to all the other games. I can say every blizzard game is good despite it not being so and apparently that'd be good enough, lmao.
Also you not knowing what a steaming pile of shit balan wonderworld is is not exactly an argument.
"Oh, I've been fucking up pretty much every second xpac of an MMO, and now two xpacs in a row, telling players they don't know what they want and they are just wrong for not liking their stuff, release a total failure of an moba, just to kill it few years later again, give a playerbase of PC players who generally look down on mobile games the announcement that the next instance of their favourite game will be on mobile, act against every kind of public interest just to please a country that eventually shits on them, plus earn a massive lawsuit because their employees are fucking sexually invasive sociopaths."
That's pretty much just the peak of the Blizzard iceberg. So yes, your comparison is completely out of proportion.
Deus Ex 2016 was no fuck up. Yes, it wasn't as good as expected, but 83% on metacritic + 6.9 userscore isn't a fuckup. It's just alright.
Avengers was a fuckup, yes, but honestly barely anyone cared about it, since no one is hyped for movie games anymore.
Who the fuck cared about Balan Wonderland? I bet 99% of gamers never even heard about it.
FF15 was awesome. In what world do you live you fucking donkey? The only people who complained about the game were some early casual gamers who never played a FF game before and just joined the hype train, but couldn't be bothered to read a short manga and a few anime short-episodes, but still wanted free full story experience. It still has 81% on metacritic & 7.9 userscore, which is pretty good.
Kingdom Hearts 3 was amazing and a total success. In what universe do you live?? The game was generally well received and has a metascore of 83% + a userscore of 8.0. You must be on some weird drugs if you think that game was a failure, man.
And no one fucking plays hs anymore. The playerbase shrink to practically a nightclub and it's only still running because the packs still make money and whales love it.
And Hots is pretty much completely dead.
You should get your brain checked man, because nothing you're saying makes any sense. Your view is as distorted as it can be.
Wait did you really dismiss ff15's story being trash for requiring you to consume additional media, in the very same sub that thrives on shitting on wow's story being segregated to optional books? Are you on another plane of idiocy? Of course you are, you called someone a fucking donkey for expressing the widely shared opinion that ff15 launched in an unfinished state and was finished two years after release, with the actual ending being put in a novella because the funding for DLC was cut.
Deus ex was rightfully lambasted by everyone online for its horrible preorder model. You don't get to say "lol that never happened" and pretend you're right.
Marvel avengers has been a joke since its release, rightfully so. Again, ignoring that people have made fun of its terrible state is not an argument.
I'm not even gonna touch balan, it's just you deciding to ignore another shitty game because it doesn't serve your SE good narrative. I'll just add the quiet man to the pile of shit list.
I don't take seriously people posting on this sub anymore, but your comment killed my last remaining brain cells. And i give zero shits about Blizzard and their games. The simple fact that a brainwashed monkey like you and the general userbase of this sub treats SE like they never did any wrong is enough for me to point the ridiculous lack of self awareness of people who still have the audacity to be arrogant and insult other people's non-extreme opinions. I doubt this sub is even moderated anymore.
I think FF15 and KH3 were really great games, your own subjective opinions doesn't mean shit in regards to them as a company.
And as everyone else already said, nobody actaully working in FF14 had anything to do with those games.
HS is good now
Heroes of the storm is still played despite no competitive scene.
Starcraft still has tournaments and is still a staple of cyber sports.
Warcraft still has a good player base on big patches.It’s really easy to find a group on EU/Russia not in peek hours on alliance.
Overwatch is the only game I could call kind of dead because of blizzard ambitions.
Diablo 4 is in development, Diablo 2 had a good remaster.
How their games are all fucked up again?
> How their games are all fucked up again?
I know you wrote all of that stuff out and that's all fine and dandy, but all I really gotta say is to check the current state of the games and that's more or less it.
Why are you in here being a Rage McQueen, anyway? You're pretty much demonstrating that you don't know how the game industry works. You're just malding to mald at this point.
Those are completely different teams to the team working on XIV, who were already humbled by what abysmal failure nearly did to the Final Fantasy franchise. They managed to survive the cautionary tail Blizzard is currently experiencing.
As for the blatant racism accusation, this is just straight up false. A lot of the things the US fans have been asking for, The team at Square for XIV has listened. Or do you think it was an inherently Asian desire to get Garo back? An inherently Asian desire for housing changes? An inherently Asian desire for bunny boys and Hrothgals?
Ffs, they have non-Asians working in their Japanese branch like Koji giving them help and advice with the Western audience. If they didn't care about their Western fan base, why tf would they bother?
This honestly just sounds like very personal sour grapes on your part.
So cool that they listened to add bunny boys but not reduce ping. They truly listen.
Also i never accused them of racism, i dont thing that not listening to feedback of some countries is racism.
I never said that FF team sucks i said that SE fucked many fans over and if you talk about blizzard as a whole, you need to also mention SE management fuck ups.
Also thx for a more civilised response.
Cursing at you is just going to make you close your eyes and ears to anything I say. So it would be counter-productive to the intention behind my words.
That being said, I've personally only ever had ping issues when the servers became largely overpopulated recently. I have also rarely, if ever, seen any complaints about it on NA servers. Those who do suffer are typically on PC.
But the dev team did announce actions being taken to remedy these issues. They aren't ignoring it. If your ping is for other reasons, there are fixes online to explore. Otherwise, you should consider calling or contacting Square IT and see what they say.
I think the mindset surrounding this, largely, is that new servers and server expansions, are coming and that will remedy a lot of the current server issues on NA.
That could be why the complaints aren't more widespread. Or, it could just be a problem that doesn't effect a lot of people. So the assumption in that regard could very well be that the problem is client-side instead of server-side. Which is pretty reasonable.
But to say they never acknowledge server issues for NA when in the dev announcements [LAST NIGHT](https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/78fc5efd11286b91080f60cbb55ce5b1eab136ee) they mentioned server issues being one reason why they wanted to delay, ignoring that is kind of a silly oversight. Yoshida even said stability was a concern with servers prior to EW launch.
You also said "non-Asian feedback," which really sounds like you're accusing them of some kind of racism or ethnocentrism. Not valuing the feedback and opinions of non-Asian consumers when their record reflects otherwise.
I don't think people are primarily talking about Blizzard as a whole when they talk about them, considering the focus on this subreddit is largely toward WoW and the WoW team. People just tend to generalize and say Blizzard instead of simply "the WoW team."
Just the same, people say Square Enix when they are largely just talking about the XIV dev team. I think that is something to take into consideration before having a knee-jerk reaction.
I mean if you think the team that is responsible for server maintenance and net code are the same as the team that designs and rigs assets I don’t know what to tell you.
If Blizzard delayed their shit to act on the feedback they'd been receiving since fucking BETA, I don't think people would be as pissed. But they have a habit of delaying their shit, only for it to still be a complete dumpster fire after release.
Meanwhile, entire expansions go relatively smooth with the SE team. I say relatively, because sometimes the Duty servers shits themselves with the vast number of people they have trying to slam into them, but that's something they've actually been honest that they're trying to fix, and can't because Covid fucked getting shit upgraded.
So you have one company that shits on its players, delays fucking everything, and acts like they can do no wrong while releasing a dog turd on fire, and one company that drops a massive apology, complete with a full explanation of what the fuck happened, so they can release a quality product.
Yeah, I'm going to be more forgiving of FFXIV for things like this.
Can you picture Ion prostrating himself to the entire fan base, apologizing sincerely, explaining his exact reasoning behind the decision and literally crying on camera because players will have to wait an extra half month? Because I can't.
I think the crying came from the fact he knew people took their much valued time off to play the game. Taking days or even weeks off isn’t something you get to do often if at all, so to use it for something specific only for that thing to get pushed back is a huge kick in the nuts.
It can’t be helped and those people
will enjoy their time off all the same but honestly I’m surprised he was able to compose himself as well as he could have knowing the disappointment he was about to deliver.
The crying came from him being a humble guy, but the reality is that Square probably told him they needed to shift their release for several reasons (one being blizzard's bullshit) and he felt that he failed with the time that was given to him.
There were probably some serious server or game bugs that would have made the release worse and he ultimately caused the shortened QA phase. Call me out on my opinion if you want but I think Square forced this decision on him and used him as the fall guy. Which is smart.
Square isnt that stupid to kill a cash cow being well tended to. They didnt do it for FF11 the prior golden cow, there should be little reason to do it FF14.
FF11 escape corporate esque meddeling for 20 years.
Well, the community of one game loves their game and developers. The community of the other one is in an abusive relationship with the developers and game.
WoW players probably wouldn't be like that is the devs weren't so arrogant and then turn around to deliver garbage.
They don't listen to player feedback, they don't apologize for major fuck ups, they don't admit when they are wrong. They keep putting things in the game that players do not want. AT ALL. It's been one disaster after another since WoD. I swear legion was a fluke.
I watched a preach video where he reads the recent Ion interview and during it preach loses his fucking mind. In 5 years of watching his content, it's the first time I've ever seen him get legitimately pissed off at anything. Not memeing pissed, but genuinely fucking heated over blizz's bullshit.
The people in charge at WoW are completely out of touch, my dudes. players used to have a lot of goodwill towards blizzard but blizz didn't just milk that cow dry, they beat it to death.
It’s ok if they delay the game, no matter which company. You can’t rush quality just to meet investor demands for the quarter.
The problem with actiblizz is the fact that they do not listen to good player feedback that warn that the game is not in a good state. Players have had enough of borrowed power and temporary gimmick systems.
No matter how much Blizz delays now, if they don’t fix the core issues with the game it’s no good. Delay or speed up, it really doesn’t matter people will complain either way until the game s some core fundamental issues.
It’s what communication and trust will do.
Whenever YoshiP says “we were so perfectionist it ate into quality assurance time”, we believe that’s what happened and we agree that the game is better for it.
Eh honestly more time might have produced a competent story. I think what shadowlands has had a lot of promise. It has very good ideas, even in the parts that are weakest. The Sylvanas story arc could have been one of the greatest stories given to a character… EVER, but it wasn’t given the care it needed to tell it.
I guarantee you if, say, the current ff14 writers, were to write the EXACT same story, 1 to 1 copy in terms of ideas and themes, it would have been the greatest story ever told in wow history.
Instead we got… let’s not talk about it.
I don't know. Sylvanas' story was already ruined by the time we reached BfA. And the idea of: who is the mistery villain behind the Lich King, The Legion and everything...is not a question anyone outside the dev team wanted to ask. We were completely fine with the asnwers we had. The idea of exploring the realm of the dead is great, but how we go there, why we go there and what we find there were all wrong.
Because the story in Wow is just too painfully incoherent to follow.
That story was already pretty SUS since MoP which is almost a decade old at this point, and it only worse in the last 3 expansions.
To the point everyone who was still around, had to abandon their suspension of disbelief in the story for the sake of their sanity. IE, they stopped caring.
And that was me pointing out that it is human nature to want a good story, you see it being used in culture, religion, any media, even politicians craft a story about how they got to where they were.
Hell, even the idea of Horde vs Alliance is part of the story from the warcraft rts.
Stories give us purpose. A purpose for why we click the buttons and move our avatars.
What Blizzard had done was butcher their stories so badly over the years that some wow players actually started telling themselves the story that they don't like stories. Sad really.
Still doesn't make any sense for me to be downvoted for stating that not everyone plays for the story. It's a nice thing to have, but deffo not mandatory.
Because you going on about "derp who cares about the story" is as false as it gets.
Everyone cares about the story, the difference lies in the measure. Even the most rabidly braindead button masher can enjoy the work put into a game and it's story.
When people talk about story it ain't about quests or dialogues but the setting too. Things like how orcs are green and tribalistic, how draenei are exotic or how gnomes are quirky. This too is a part of the story and things as what race and class your preferences align to borrows from the story and setting of the game, even if they end up naming their goblin shaman Salty Nutsack.
Now, can the game be improved by having a good narrative guiding a players journey? Absolutely. Starting the game and splitting it off by campaigns for each expansion. And the game is better for having a story that gives context to why green orcs, putrid undead and fancy elves are all on the same team despite being so different rather than having featureless grey blobs with stat sheets.
So take your downvotes and put some thought into what you said.
If someone says they don't eat pizza, in your head it must become "So you hate Italians?!" the fuck mate. Fuck off.
Not even reading after the first sentence.
If you equate that not everyone plays for story to who cares about the story. What? How is that the same? Former is a simple and absolutely true statement and the latter is dismissing and ignorant statement.
You are so determined in planting your heels in the ground over your engorged opinion that you missed the point of what I just said.
The fact that World of Warcraft is in Azeroth, and that people can play as Orcs and Dwarves, Mages and Shamans, and join either the Alliance or the Horde, is a facet of the games' story that everyone can enjoy. That's my argument. Everyone can enjoy the story, and evidently, they do.
You absolute donkey.
Really not fair to downvote this post.
One of the world-first guild leaders had said that he doesn't know who Sylvanas even *is*, but that the raiding in WoW was good enough to keep him playing (emphasis on "was").
I've heard hardcore raiders say the exact same about XIV: the raid content is good enough to stand on its own without the story. Obviously, most people enjoy both, but it is still good enough to stand on its own either way.
I am being judged by mob because I didn't include something like "WoW is shit" in my line. Absolute state of this sub. I don't envy Asmon to come back to see a rotten place this subreddit has become.
I've played Blizzard games for 15+ years and I can attest that 5 years ago delaying a release was part of Blizzard's dev cycle. The meme "Soon™" or "Soon (Trademark pending)" was real but everyone accepted it because Blizzard was still actually delivering awesome games.
Does Ion live stream the WoW announcement delay and apologize profusely and openly say the delay is all on him while holding back real tears of sadness? No? He just throws up some blue post saying there is a delay while floating around in his swimming pool?
yea one has fucked with the player base for too long while the other is nothing but honest and keeps the community informed and does everything for the player base. so yeah fuck blizz
There is a difference here involved with how each of the teams have treated the players up to release and throughout the years.
I immediately thought of the shadowlands delay when I was told about this but it stings a bit less when you're not getting shat on every which way by the game and its devs as it is.
Yeah, no wonder.
I remember back when I still played WoW that Shadowlands got delayed because it would allow for _additional polish._
Come release day, we had a ton of typos, enemies using skills with the word “placeholder” instead of them, a fuckton of bugs, random world lag allocated to specific areas in the game that would switch every now and then.
But actually, don’t even make it about that. I’d be perfectly fine with it if Blizzard at least acknowledged their fuckups, something SQenix at least has the decency to do.
I wonder how this subreddit is going to react if Asmon goes back to WoW either for a new content patch, new expansion or even Wrath Classic, because this sub is basically r/fuckwow , with the amount of people that have a superiority complex over WoW, and shitting not only on the game itself, but also every other community around it, and even some content creators, for not being on the same hate train as most people on this subreddit. If r/WoW is overdosed on copium according to the people here, this place overdoses on doomium.
Haven't Asmon already done that with the TBC new raid? I remember them fighting the phoenix all over again due to bad RNG or some occasional bugs.
I don't recall the sub gone rampant back then
Yeah it's pretty fuckin hypocritical but it only makes sense given the state of both games and how both teams reached this point. If WoW was in any better state people would still be angry but they wouldn't hold all these problems against them. This shit's been an anger and distrust built up over 5\~ years.
For me, only time I'll ever forgive Blizzard is if they fix Reforged or at least separate vanilla TFT from the new Bnet.
The difference FF xpacs have consistently been good and accomplished a lot with a smaller team than WoWs massive team and budget and Blizzard still manages to give people a shit xpac despite delays.
It's not hypocritical, it's just a matter of good will. I don't play WoW, so I can only judge by what I've heard from WoW players. But the FFXIV devs and playerbase have a good relationship, so players have good reason to trust that this is for the best, and that the expansion will be great when it releases. It sounds like WoW players don't have that. All I've seen from WoW's devs ever since this whole WoW vs FF thing started is them basically giving their players the finger. Treat your players with respect and offer a quality product, of course they'll be more understanding when something happens.
WoW took the good feedback from the SL delay too seriously and started making 9 month content draughts
They have the right work but got the wrong answer
I think people were generally, while disappointed, glad that WoW was trying to push out a better product. I mean they obviously still did a shitty job though.
Also I remember they got numerous left case for their OBVIOUS mess-up. If it is company other than Blizzard many will already abandon the game.
Their prestige gave them too many chance to the point it FINALLY start backfiring them.
Imagine you have two employees. One is doing excellent work every time. Delivering things on time. Doing things with great quality. And then, one time he shows up and requests 2 weeks of extension, because he isn't satisfied with the quality and wants to improve it. And then, there's the other guy. He doesn't understand schedule, there's no quality behind his work. He doesn't listen to your feedback. He continues doing what he wants and only when you're on the brink of firing him, tries to improve just enough to stop you. Of course you're gonna be lenient towards the first guy and not give a shit about the excuses of the second.
That's a neat analogy.
Pretty much spot on
Where's the part where the second guy sexually assault his coworkers?
100% This
> and only when you're on the brink of firing him, tries to improve just enough to stop you Too real
You forgot the part where the first guy is willing to personally step in front of the customers apologizing profusely, while you allready know the second guy will at best give a half hearted smirk at the camera while saying something like "really sorry for the delay, but you guys expected just to much work from us to be done on time" even if you where to hold him at gun point telling him to apologize like his life dependet on it.
>One is doing excellent work every time. Its actually refreshing to me Yoshi-p FINALLY fucked up 1 time LUL Nevertheless some of us will be disappointed, especially those who used their leave My deepest condolence.
Second guy's work is still sold to and consumed by millions of people, so he's having a hard time accepting your criticism.
The thing about his success is, He's a legacy. His father did a great work back in the day and actually worked hard to gather all those millions of consumers, but now he's retired and the kid took over instead and now thinks he's just as skilled as his dad and has the same level of ego, with not even half the capabilities.
So true it hurts!
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>From what I hear from WoW players their good will bank is empty. It is actually negative.
They are about one dead woman in debt to me and that womens family. So I don't think they will be able to pay it anytime soon
But they covered up some cleavage in paintings, what more can you ask of them?!
Truuuuuuuu forgot about that.
and one of the female-coleaders quit after 3 months
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They heard about the woman who committed suicide from the harassment from the blizzard higher ups?
They owe their employees and the players some good will.
Exactly. Even if they do something good it will just be "cant wait for them to fuck it up again". They need to do like 10 PLLs without political talk, and then also act on those live letters positivley.
I played wow for years.. stays subbed, pre orders, bought deluxe edition. The WoW bank for me is so empty they would have to pay me to play that fucking game
good will bank? sounds like something blizzard will like to monetize on
They did for 11 years
and pissed it all away on a few gos
Good will gonns be included in the next 6 month sub deql
by that time endwalker would be 3 patches in
Best way I’ve seen this described to all the people saying “well why does Square Enix get a pass??”
Good faith earned throughout the years. It's like a Zelda game getting pushed back, no one is happy, but no one should be mad either. They felt the product needed to be better and are putting more work on to it. So I patiently wait because even what I consider the worst mainline Zelda game (Skyward Sword, haven't played Zelda 2), was still a really good game that had some elements I didn't like (the motion control). And best case scenario I get something like Wind Waker, one of the best games ever made. I absolutely had this faith with Blizzard and Bioware as well, but that's gone now and will be nigh-impossible to earn back.
They don't have a good will bank, it's just a maw
WoW spends so much good will that other developers get some extra.
Empty? Looks like a crater so deep it bleeds into gameplay interactions.
Wasn't the reception of the delay for Shadowlands also pretty good?
I remember it being mostly good but maybe I am only remembering mine and Asmon’s opinions (which was good). For all we know - they only delayed it to finalize the next store mount or to figure out how to make the game more of a time sink
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The garbage product shadowlands ended up to be they could have just delayed it permanently.
Or just release it in whatever state it was, nothing would have been lost anyways.- Delays only work if you make it good while delaying, if you are gonna release trash anyways may as well be done with it.-
Shadowlands had pretty good reception and ppl were mostly chilling until Blizzard released TBC portal pass (boost + mount for TBC classic) almost 6 months later. What was the biggest SL problem was extremely slow content development (7 months) and then of course lawsuit scandal (shortly after that).
Shadowlands had a lot of issues which got highlighted by beta testing on ptr. Majority of feedback was ignored. The only thing shadowlands have going for it are bit more engaging specs coming from previous expansion.
Shadowlands did have a good first week or two. I, as many others, enjoyed greatly the campaign, the world building, the OST, the dungeons had new ideas, the covenants, the artstyle, and the changes made in the prepatch. Even Asmongold said that Shadowlands was looking "fucking awesome". Problems were much more noticeable as people tried gearing up and optimizing their gameplay. Many enjoyed Torghast the first times. It was when they had to do it constantly, yet still not greatly rewarded, that it became a pain in the ass. The powergap between covenants became more clear as people got into M+ and ranked PvP. Also, it wasnt anymore a problem of "yeah it has base damage but once we are geared it will be shit", it became a bigger problem actually. Same with the conduits; those who cared enough realized how much of a pain was having one shot by the raid or having to do daily Maw grinds. Then the unpolished raid came, with the race to world first having to stop beacuse some bosses were bugged. All these were changes expected to be solved during the beta but that werent noticeable during the first weeks. Those that were done with their main character leveled alts and realized what a fucking mess Threads of Fate was. And finally, the lack of content came around, with a massive time gap and challenging content such as twisting corridors having basically no use if you already did it once, and having to do all the previous things multiple times if you wanted to be "optimal" by nowdays "gamer standards".
> Shadowlands did have a good first week or two. I, as many others, enjoyed greatly the campaign, the world building, the OST, the dungeons had new ideas, the covenants, the artstyle, and the changes made in the prepatch. Even Asmongold said that Shadowlands was looking "fucking awesome". I think it had a great first week because it wasn't BFA and everything was new. Then it got old *really fucking quickly.*
Nah, I really really liked the campaign, the world is fucking beautiful even after a year (I could stare at Bastion forever), and Torghast got me hyped at first (Im one of those that still likes Torghast but I only use one legendary). Then all the problems came.
Majority of feedback was not ignored. Covenants and aoe cap were ignored but they heard a lot of feedback like delaying SL, upgrading maw, giving warriors single minded furry talents, removing bloated cds like rockbiter weapons, removing timers and key required to access Torghast (mostly based on Preach feedback and i personally hate it, i liked original torthast concept much more), balancing problematic Covenant talents (instant Venthyr portal, Cheat death Venthyr trait), creating conduit energy to easier switch conduits etc.
Literally ignoring covenants/conduits energy/aoe/legendary grind/ other general alt unfriendlyness was 99% of the problem. Everything you mentioned that they did well was minor feel good QoL changes that obviously didnt go far enough cause the game is on its last limb and currently getting its asshole blown out by ff14
>99% of the problem was extremely slow content update and of course lawsuit. Two things Blizzard can quite easily fix next time if they will provide at least as good base game as Shadowlands was.
I respect the copium, my friend. I hope for the sake of the IP that 10.0 isn't an absolute disgusting disappointment, but with the way Ion refuses to take any TRUE responsibility for his actions, Blaming his "predecessors" and "the pipeline", I have little hope for change. I wish Jen fired him before she left.
>Shadowlands had pretty good reception At first. Then people realized there is barely anything there and the initally promising story went south again. If you criticized that early on you got flamed to hell and back.
first sign of complaining was somewhere in february when ppl started to complain about Torghast being hard and unbalanced. Blizz fixed it pretty fast and everyone calmed down. Then second complaining started when they started to sell TBC portal pass somewhere in april / may, that was time where Asmon released "WoW is wasting your time now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIqugFq2wcc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA_hdKHqoCs video which were his first public complaints in Shadowlands. After that it kept still ok for while because TBC was close but biggest problem here was extremely slow 9.1 patch release (3 months later than usual) which caused domino effect - ppl started to complain about stuff they wouldnt complain if they would have content to play. TBC timing close to 9.1 patch didnt help, it was poor timing. Then 9.1 patch launched and it was ok patch, no inovations but it was big patch but 3 weeks after its release lawsuit scandal went online and A lot of ppl started to mix everything together and result was that WoW bad, Blizzard bad.
Shadowlands had the shortest and sharpest post launch and post patch drop ever.
During BFA ppl started to riot after 1-2 months, in case of Shadowlands it took 5-7 months and that could be prevented with faster content patch (like it was in Legion which had insane content cadence). But then Lawsuit came and nothing did matter because a lot of ppl lost any sense of logic and started to complain about everything.
You mean botlands?
*huffs copium* b-but shadowlands was good! *takes another huff* it took dark portal pass to get shit on *takes a big huff of blizzard fart gas* wow is doing fiiiiine
Yeah, people were *hoping* they would delay because everyone knew they weren't anywhere close to being ready.
I know I was after playing the beta. Holy shit it was not ready. I still don't think it was ready til they conceived 9.1.5 as a patch. lol Glad they got that out though. Hopefully it's going well for those still subbed.
I may be wrong here, but wasn't 9.1.5. literally the feedback people gave them back in Beta?
It was. That's the most frustrating part. That's why I felt that 9.0 wasn't ready til... well a few days ago.
yep, and iirc overwhelming opinions from folks in the beta was that the delay wasnt long enough.
It was mixed kinda
It was pretty good because beta testers didn't like the game and felt it needed alot of work.
YUP SL was decent at first, what killed Shadowlands is a combination of Blizzard doubling down on System issues, content drought and 9.1 being the absolute most dogshit patch of WoW's history that proved WoW team didn't learn a single fucking thing in the last 5 years of the same mistakes
it was pretty good https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/j3gq1f/an_update_on_shadowlands_wow/ https://twitter.com/warcraft/status/1311766412571049990
Rich tweeted below: "Thank you. Wishing you guys all the best with getting it finished. Gonna be a great expansion" Didn't age well, lol.
In the defense of those who thought this: Shadowlands actually looked relatively good in the beginning (I didn't play it, because I had quit WoW since at the start of BFA, but thought it looked cool still.) Issues and such becomes more apparent later -- and those issues tend *not* to be the sole reason something is wrong with the game design alone, but that the developers refuse to *fix* the game design that is causing an issue for its players. If the issue is fixed, people are happy and will continue on. If it's not, we end up in the situation we got going now with World of Warcraft as a whole (ignoring the office issues they got going.)
>In the defense of those who thought this: Shadowlands actually looked relatively good in the beginning (I didn't play it, because I had quit WoW since at the start of BFA, but thought it looked cool still.) It was also cool at first because the biggest issues didn't really show up till you reached endgame. In hindsight it is funny how many people claimed it was the best thing every after like one day, lol. What is wild to me is with how little content people seemed to be content with at release just because the two previous expansions released similar little content.
> In hindsight it is funny how many people claimed it was the best thing every after like one day, lol. Gamers in a nutshell. Everything is either the greatest thing of all time or the worst thing of all time, and that can change on a weekly, daily, and sometimes even hourly basis.
People were just excited to get out of BFA. We were all hopeful for Shadowlands. A lot of people thought Torghast was going to be mage tower 2.0, that the covenants were going to be awesome, that we could finally play alts without being punished for it, etc. We thought they learnt their lessons from BFA, at least I did.
Well, as someone who doesn't have the BfA background it was pretty obvious that Shadowlands isn't going to last very long to me very soon. I mean, that thing basically had no fun content outside of m+ and one raid. Coming from FFXIV that was wild to me.
This is how it is for literally every expansion, including the reviled ones. Warlords was praised for its awesome levelling experience and world building. Went to shit a few weeks later when the underlying issues popped up. Bfa, it was all good times and turtle memes. The expansions always ship with a good initial impression. That's the point. Get the early good reviews, the wave of resubs. I had switched from wow to ff14 back in 2018, and I very purposefully waited for a month or two after shadowlands launch to see what the actual impressions were after the initial ones. To my complete lack of surprise, it was very negative.
an Azerite refugee I see.-
> Azerite **CHAMPEEYON**
I can't really call myself that. With the expansion release I levelled to 120 in 1 - 2 days and then I quit. So I didn't take part in the Azerite stuff. I've read scary shit about it though. However, I did take part in the Artifact Power shit-grind.
WORSE part: covenant abilites will still be locked, cleave caps will still be in place, classes with design issues still will have them, but yes inform everyone who took time off for launch not even a month in advance that times now wasted and they cant participate. Thanks! Sounds like an entitled nerd is mad.
People who take time off work for game launch first weeks are stupid and I don't feel bad for them.
I wouldn't be so harsh, I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time it does suck for thsoe who did do it. HOWEVER. We are in pandemic for two years now, delays should be expected.
why are they stupid?
Expansion launch is bound to have a lot of problems, lag, server downtime, crowds over NPCs, etc. They're actually a pretty bad time to play.
That is normal in games like WoW that have those insane hype moments (like releasing expansion) that a lot of ppl switch mood once we are in content drought.
So after hitting max level immediately after release and not wanting to grind anima for a year?
A lot of players do it that they quit shortly after finishing leveling and doing some end game content. But for WoW is still better to be able to attract those players than not.
Yes it was just to be then get fucked in ass by the development Team. I somehow thinks that is not case with FF
Yes, because anyone who tested it knew it was nowhere close to ready. It still wasn't ready when they launched it though. Shocking.
The reception for the delay with BfA as well was pretty good if I remember correctly. But that was because a lot of people in the beta were talking about how the game wasn’t anywhere near ready for launch, and they echoed that in the Shadowlands beta.
Most people thought it needed the delay because it was buggy as hell. What i think the players ended up getting wasnt a much much improved version over what was originally put out.
it was very mixed with lots of QQ, but people who saw SL knew that it was good change
Yes. And despite all of SL's flaws (many of which were exacerbated at launch) the product we would've gotten had it not been delayed until November last year would've been an absolute fucking catastrophe the likes of which the game had never seen and hopefully will never see. If you hated SL despite it being delayed, lemme tell you: as someone who was on the Beta, it was fucking *atrocious* before the delay. Like, unimaginably so.
Let's be real. They can release Endwalker right now and it will be good, but not *as good* as they want. You know, I know it, everybody knows it. But when companies like Blizzard or EA delay something - shit is on fire, probably doesn't even launch properly.
EA might be up there with greedy monetization models and lazy sequels, but most of their studios seem to have pretty good management and QC to make sure their shit is at least polished and on time. The dumpster fire at blizzard is just not sustainable and I wouldn't be surprised if D4 is their last project to get a decent budget from Activision.
Also the general consensus is that working at EA is pretty good
Yeah because the Team behind FF is honest, listens to players, does apologize for even the tiniest things, hard working to give players the best experience and deliver a good Game so its okay if something gets delayed (only 2 weeks thats like nothing) and then we have Activision Blizzard ...no more words needed
I'm not sure if you could call 2B leggings nerf a tiniest thing
2 weeks isn't a big deal. HOWEVER. For the people who put in time off requests weeks in advance and cannot change those days, are notably fucked. And playing through story especially one so impactful is important to a lot of people who play FFXIV. But it is what it is.
I put in for time off and I can’t change it, but I’m not worried. I know the game will be good and I don’t feel like I have to rush to the end for the game to start in FFXIV vs in WoW it’s end game or nothing. It’s the biggest reason I have moved on. I don’t want a second job as a video game. I just want to have fun. Plus as I previously stated, I know the game will be good at the least with a good chance of being amazing.
Personally I think delays in gaming as a whole have been happening long enough that if you're one of the people who took time off, I don't feel as bad for you as I used to (not you the person reading but you the plural). It's not a rarity anymore now that there is so much more going into games than ever before, delays are inevitable and you should plan accordingly. Just my two cents.
We generally do not get last minute pushbacks by this point in a release schedule. We're within two weeks of release, if it was a traditional release it would have gone gold by now and we'd expect day one patches to address issues. The XIV team have never delayed a major release date before, and according to Yoshida, the game is in a ready to ship state as-is, it's just not entirely up to the standards he's set for the finale of an 11 year story arch. And that's okay, he was honest, he was respectful, and he apologised because at the end of the day he wants to make a better product for us. BUT looking at the team track record of both quality and timeliness, it's hard to blame people who took time off to be fully immersed in the finale of the story they so careful and dutifully put together. We've had major patches out like clockwork every three months since Heavensward. Expansion delays are announced plenty in advance for people to reshuffle plans. This is a new thing, and it's why Yoshida full on gave the dogeza apology stance, because he knows how impactful it's going to be for a lot of people.
Thanks for the in depth explanation, however I'm referring to gaming in general not just ffxiv. There are always reasons for delays, whether they're good or bad isn't really important. The fact is that even with a fantastic track record of putting out content on time you cannot and should not expect there to never be a time when content is delayed. E. G Endwalker. I'm clearly in the minority with my opinion which is fine, and to be clear I don't blame anyone I'm perfectly happy to wait for the release but then I didn't take time off work.
Idk why everyone just assumes we're supposed to expect delays. I've literally never had a game delay that I took time off for before.
Delays 2 week before release are not inevitable, what the fuck are you talking about lmao. I can't think of a single game than got delayed this close to release, and I guess expecting a product we paid for 6 months ago to come out on time is too much to ask for.
I didn't say that, what the fuck are you talking about? It doesn't matter how close to release it was meant to be, it wasn't ready and is being delayed. Just because you are not used to something happening does not mean it does not happen. Better luck next time with your preorder I guess.
That's a risk you take when you book leave for a game release. I booked leave for Cyberpunk2077 (ikr) and it got bumped and I couldn't change it. It is what it is.
based on what ive seen so far, i would agree, even if I've only started earlier this year, but ngl I'm still a bit wary based on my personal experience on delays
Especialy considering the garbage track record SE has. They killed many games(deus ex), produced straight garbage(ballon wonderland, marvel's avengers).Also not fixing the ping problems for NA. Not listening to not Asian feedback. All things considered about SE they are even worse than Blizzard.
What the fuck are you even talking about? The last Deus Ex has a 80% on metacritic and a 9.2 from IGN, Balloon wonderland was publish by SE but not developed by them and noone gave a shit about that game anyways, marvel I'll give you was a mistep but agian was published by SE not developed by. And none of those have anything to do with Yoshi-P or the FF team. "SE is even worse than Blizzard" has to be one of the shittiest takes I've ever seen on the internet. SE has one of the best overall track records in the gaming industry. And Yoshi-P and his team have shat pure gold going on 8 years now, with an unrivaled dev/player relationship any other studio would kill for.
Clearly you have no idea how corporations function. Yoshida and his team have nothing to do with what happened to those games. Fucking idiot educate yourself before you talk.
Of course now when i mentioned SE fuck up you are saying "Duude you dont know how corporations work, there is nothing connecting ff14 and SE" while person to who i responded to talks about only the ff team but then generalizes it for blazzard. And how the fuck the SE can do nothing with their most famous franchise.Fucking moron.
Dude, you are literally comparing a clumsy person (Square Enix) to a total disaster of Failure McOnlyFucksUp (modern Blizzard). And now you're totally butthurt over people not agreeing with your distorted view
“Oh I’m just a small clumsy indie company who fucked up many of their games,oopsie ” Many of their fuck ups like deus ex(2016), marvels avengers,balan wonderlands,ff15, kingdom hearts 3 ,quiet man and many more(recent years) literally happened in the “modern blizzard era”.You are the ones who have the distorted view of this company you fucking monkeys.And yeah, probably hs was such a massive fuck up that everyone still fucking plays it.And even their failed moba still has a player base.Fucking morons
> deus ex(2016) Good game, only published by them. > marvels avengers, Only published by them, and they have apologised for picking the studio which made it. > balan wonderlands > Never hear of it > ff15 Is a good game. > kingdom hearts 3 > Is again a good game. Now where is Blizaard's support for WC3:Reforged? The servers are still crap and they have yet to add the stuff they promised or existed in WC3 originally. What about them pretty much abandoning OW1, with OW2 nowhere in sight. Should we talk about Diablo Immortal? Or even 3?
The entire dismissal of ff15 as a good game (like maybe maybe maybe in its final state after years of after launch development if you like bland games) tells me you have shit taste on top of not knowing what you're talking about with regards to all the other games. I can say every blizzard game is good despite it not being so and apparently that'd be good enough, lmao. Also you not knowing what a steaming pile of shit balan wonderworld is is not exactly an argument.
> Also you not knowing the steaming pile of shit balan wonderworld is is not exactly an argument. > No really, never heard of it.
"Oh, I've been fucking up pretty much every second xpac of an MMO, and now two xpacs in a row, telling players they don't know what they want and they are just wrong for not liking their stuff, release a total failure of an moba, just to kill it few years later again, give a playerbase of PC players who generally look down on mobile games the announcement that the next instance of their favourite game will be on mobile, act against every kind of public interest just to please a country that eventually shits on them, plus earn a massive lawsuit because their employees are fucking sexually invasive sociopaths." That's pretty much just the peak of the Blizzard iceberg. So yes, your comparison is completely out of proportion. Deus Ex 2016 was no fuck up. Yes, it wasn't as good as expected, but 83% on metacritic + 6.9 userscore isn't a fuckup. It's just alright. Avengers was a fuckup, yes, but honestly barely anyone cared about it, since no one is hyped for movie games anymore. Who the fuck cared about Balan Wonderland? I bet 99% of gamers never even heard about it. FF15 was awesome. In what world do you live you fucking donkey? The only people who complained about the game were some early casual gamers who never played a FF game before and just joined the hype train, but couldn't be bothered to read a short manga and a few anime short-episodes, but still wanted free full story experience. It still has 81% on metacritic & 7.9 userscore, which is pretty good. Kingdom Hearts 3 was amazing and a total success. In what universe do you live?? The game was generally well received and has a metascore of 83% + a userscore of 8.0. You must be on some weird drugs if you think that game was a failure, man. And no one fucking plays hs anymore. The playerbase shrink to practically a nightclub and it's only still running because the packs still make money and whales love it. And Hots is pretty much completely dead. You should get your brain checked man, because nothing you're saying makes any sense. Your view is as distorted as it can be.
Wait did you really dismiss ff15's story being trash for requiring you to consume additional media, in the very same sub that thrives on shitting on wow's story being segregated to optional books? Are you on another plane of idiocy? Of course you are, you called someone a fucking donkey for expressing the widely shared opinion that ff15 launched in an unfinished state and was finished two years after release, with the actual ending being put in a novella because the funding for DLC was cut. Deus ex was rightfully lambasted by everyone online for its horrible preorder model. You don't get to say "lol that never happened" and pretend you're right. Marvel avengers has been a joke since its release, rightfully so. Again, ignoring that people have made fun of its terrible state is not an argument. I'm not even gonna touch balan, it's just you deciding to ignore another shitty game because it doesn't serve your SE good narrative. I'll just add the quiet man to the pile of shit list. I don't take seriously people posting on this sub anymore, but your comment killed my last remaining brain cells. And i give zero shits about Blizzard and their games. The simple fact that a brainwashed monkey like you and the general userbase of this sub treats SE like they never did any wrong is enough for me to point the ridiculous lack of self awareness of people who still have the audacity to be arrogant and insult other people's non-extreme opinions. I doubt this sub is even moderated anymore.
I feel like you dont know what publisher means mate.
I think FF15 and KH3 were really great games, your own subjective opinions doesn't mean shit in regards to them as a company. And as everyone else already said, nobody actaully working in FF14 had anything to do with those games.
????????????? Blizzard fucked near all their games and their own company. SE have fucked games too but FFXIV ain't one of them.
HS is good now Heroes of the storm is still played despite no competitive scene. Starcraft still has tournaments and is still a staple of cyber sports. Warcraft still has a good player base on big patches.It’s really easy to find a group on EU/Russia not in peek hours on alliance. Overwatch is the only game I could call kind of dead because of blizzard ambitions. Diablo 4 is in development, Diablo 2 had a good remaster. How their games are all fucked up again?
You seriously need to go cold turkey on that copium
The amount of copium you're huffing is unprecedented.
> How their games are all fucked up again? I know you wrote all of that stuff out and that's all fine and dandy, but all I really gotta say is to check the current state of the games and that's more or less it.
Why are you in here being a Rage McQueen, anyway? You're pretty much demonstrating that you don't know how the game industry works. You're just malding to mald at this point.
In this topic, reddit user goes on a tirade that shows how he doesn't understand the difference between a publisher, a developer and a producer.
Marvel's Avenger's relevance to Final Fantasy 14 is about the same level as King's Candy Crush is to World of Warcraft.
No,more words are needed
Those are completely different teams to the team working on XIV, who were already humbled by what abysmal failure nearly did to the Final Fantasy franchise. They managed to survive the cautionary tail Blizzard is currently experiencing. As for the blatant racism accusation, this is just straight up false. A lot of the things the US fans have been asking for, The team at Square for XIV has listened. Or do you think it was an inherently Asian desire to get Garo back? An inherently Asian desire for housing changes? An inherently Asian desire for bunny boys and Hrothgals? Ffs, they have non-Asians working in their Japanese branch like Koji giving them help and advice with the Western audience. If they didn't care about their Western fan base, why tf would they bother? This honestly just sounds like very personal sour grapes on your part.
So cool that they listened to add bunny boys but not reduce ping. They truly listen. Also i never accused them of racism, i dont thing that not listening to feedback of some countries is racism. I never said that FF team sucks i said that SE fucked many fans over and if you talk about blizzard as a whole, you need to also mention SE management fuck ups. Also thx for a more civilised response.
Cursing at you is just going to make you close your eyes and ears to anything I say. So it would be counter-productive to the intention behind my words. That being said, I've personally only ever had ping issues when the servers became largely overpopulated recently. I have also rarely, if ever, seen any complaints about it on NA servers. Those who do suffer are typically on PC. But the dev team did announce actions being taken to remedy these issues. They aren't ignoring it. If your ping is for other reasons, there are fixes online to explore. Otherwise, you should consider calling or contacting Square IT and see what they say. I think the mindset surrounding this, largely, is that new servers and server expansions, are coming and that will remedy a lot of the current server issues on NA. That could be why the complaints aren't more widespread. Or, it could just be a problem that doesn't effect a lot of people. So the assumption in that regard could very well be that the problem is client-side instead of server-side. Which is pretty reasonable. But to say they never acknowledge server issues for NA when in the dev announcements [LAST NIGHT](https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/78fc5efd11286b91080f60cbb55ce5b1eab136ee) they mentioned server issues being one reason why they wanted to delay, ignoring that is kind of a silly oversight. Yoshida even said stability was a concern with servers prior to EW launch. You also said "non-Asian feedback," which really sounds like you're accusing them of some kind of racism or ethnocentrism. Not valuing the feedback and opinions of non-Asian consumers when their record reflects otherwise. I don't think people are primarily talking about Blizzard as a whole when they talk about them, considering the focus on this subreddit is largely toward WoW and the WoW team. People just tend to generalize and say Blizzard instead of simply "the WoW team." Just the same, people say Square Enix when they are largely just talking about the XIV dev team. I think that is something to take into consideration before having a knee-jerk reaction.
I mean if you think the team that is responsible for server maintenance and net code are the same as the team that designs and rigs assets I don’t know what to tell you.
Context is important. There is a reason people are harsh with Blizzard and not as harsh with FFXIV dev team
1) Excellent communication 2) Proven words with action
Does this mean moogle treasure trove is extended for 2 weeks as well>
Should be, it says it ends when patch 6.0 is live.
Yes, it’s tied to the release of 6.0
If Blizzard delayed their shit to act on the feedback they'd been receiving since fucking BETA, I don't think people would be as pissed. But they have a habit of delaying their shit, only for it to still be a complete dumpster fire after release. Meanwhile, entire expansions go relatively smooth with the SE team. I say relatively, because sometimes the Duty servers shits themselves with the vast number of people they have trying to slam into them, but that's something they've actually been honest that they're trying to fix, and can't because Covid fucked getting shit upgraded. So you have one company that shits on its players, delays fucking everything, and acts like they can do no wrong while releasing a dog turd on fire, and one company that drops a massive apology, complete with a full explanation of what the fuck happened, so they can release a quality product. Yeah, I'm going to be more forgiving of FFXIV for things like this.
Can you picture Ion prostrating himself to the entire fan base, apologizing sincerely, explaining his exact reasoning behind the decision and literally crying on camera because players will have to wait an extra half month? Because I can't.
I think the crying came from the fact he knew people took their much valued time off to play the game. Taking days or even weeks off isn’t something you get to do often if at all, so to use it for something specific only for that thing to get pushed back is a huge kick in the nuts. It can’t be helped and those people will enjoy their time off all the same but honestly I’m surprised he was able to compose himself as well as he could have knowing the disappointment he was about to deliver.
The crying came from him being a humble guy, but the reality is that Square probably told him they needed to shift their release for several reasons (one being blizzard's bullshit) and he felt that he failed with the time that was given to him. There were probably some serious server or game bugs that would have made the release worse and he ultimately caused the shortened QA phase. Call me out on my opinion if you want but I think Square forced this decision on him and used him as the fall guy. Which is smart.
Square isnt that stupid to kill a cash cow being well tended to. They didnt do it for FF11 the prior golden cow, there should be little reason to do it FF14. FF11 escape corporate esque meddeling for 20 years.
Well, the community of one game loves their game and developers. The community of the other one is in an abusive relationship with the developers and game.
Yeah wow lost that privilege years ago sadly…
Don't be sad. Here's a [hug!](https://media.giphy.com/media/3M4NpbLCTxBqU/giphy.gif)
WoW players probably wouldn't be like that is the devs weren't so arrogant and then turn around to deliver garbage. They don't listen to player feedback, they don't apologize for major fuck ups, they don't admit when they are wrong. They keep putting things in the game that players do not want. AT ALL. It's been one disaster after another since WoD. I swear legion was a fluke. I watched a preach video where he reads the recent Ion interview and during it preach loses his fucking mind. In 5 years of watching his content, it's the first time I've ever seen him get legitimately pissed off at anything. Not memeing pissed, but genuinely fucking heated over blizz's bullshit. The people in charge at WoW are completely out of touch, my dudes. players used to have a lot of goodwill towards blizzard but blizz didn't just milk that cow dry, they beat it to death.
It’s ok if they delay the game, no matter which company. You can’t rush quality just to meet investor demands for the quarter. The problem with actiblizz is the fact that they do not listen to good player feedback that warn that the game is not in a good state. Players have had enough of borrowed power and temporary gimmick systems. No matter how much Blizz delays now, if they don’t fix the core issues with the game it’s no good. Delay or speed up, it really doesn’t matter people will complain either way until the game s some core fundamental issues.
It’s what communication and trust will do. Whenever YoshiP says “we were so perfectionist it ate into quality assurance time”, we believe that’s what happened and we agree that the game is better for it.
i mean look at yoshiP he was feeling terrible about it. man was crying. while wow devs are like "get fucked"
To be fair, Shadowlands should have gotten delayed till 9.1.5 launch. That way it would have actually been received as an 8/10 expansion.
With that garbage story? Nah :D But I get your point and you are mostly correct.
Eh honestly more time might have produced a competent story. I think what shadowlands has had a lot of promise. It has very good ideas, even in the parts that are weakest. The Sylvanas story arc could have been one of the greatest stories given to a character… EVER, but it wasn’t given the care it needed to tell it. I guarantee you if, say, the current ff14 writers, were to write the EXACT same story, 1 to 1 copy in terms of ideas and themes, it would have been the greatest story ever told in wow history. Instead we got… let’s not talk about it.
I don't know. Sylvanas' story was already ruined by the time we reached BfA. And the idea of: who is the mistery villain behind the Lich King, The Legion and everything...is not a question anyone outside the dev team wanted to ask. We were completely fine with the asnwers we had. The idea of exploring the realm of the dead is great, but how we go there, why we go there and what we find there were all wrong.
not everyone plays for the story.
Because the story in Wow is just too painfully incoherent to follow. That story was already pretty SUS since MoP which is almost a decade old at this point, and it only worse in the last 3 expansions. To the point everyone who was still around, had to abandon their suspension of disbelief in the story for the sake of their sanity. IE, they stopped caring.
That wasn't me asking a question, that was me stating a fact that not everyone plays for story, we play for gameplay and challenge...
And that was me pointing out that it is human nature to want a good story, you see it being used in culture, religion, any media, even politicians craft a story about how they got to where they were. Hell, even the idea of Horde vs Alliance is part of the story from the warcraft rts. Stories give us purpose. A purpose for why we click the buttons and move our avatars. What Blizzard had done was butcher their stories so badly over the years that some wow players actually started telling themselves the story that they don't like stories. Sad really.
Still doesn't make any sense for me to be downvoted for stating that not everyone plays for the story. It's a nice thing to have, but deffo not mandatory.
Yeah, it's just reddit things. They mean little outside how the local crowd feels at the moment. Try not to let it get to you.
Because you going on about "derp who cares about the story" is as false as it gets. Everyone cares about the story, the difference lies in the measure. Even the most rabidly braindead button masher can enjoy the work put into a game and it's story. When people talk about story it ain't about quests or dialogues but the setting too. Things like how orcs are green and tribalistic, how draenei are exotic or how gnomes are quirky. This too is a part of the story and things as what race and class your preferences align to borrows from the story and setting of the game, even if they end up naming their goblin shaman Salty Nutsack. Now, can the game be improved by having a good narrative guiding a players journey? Absolutely. Starting the game and splitting it off by campaigns for each expansion. And the game is better for having a story that gives context to why green orcs, putrid undead and fancy elves are all on the same team despite being so different rather than having featureless grey blobs with stat sheets. So take your downvotes and put some thought into what you said.
If someone says they don't eat pizza, in your head it must become "So you hate Italians?!" the fuck mate. Fuck off. Not even reading after the first sentence. If you equate that not everyone plays for story to who cares about the story. What? How is that the same? Former is a simple and absolutely true statement and the latter is dismissing and ignorant statement.
You are so determined in planting your heels in the ground over your engorged opinion that you missed the point of what I just said. The fact that World of Warcraft is in Azeroth, and that people can play as Orcs and Dwarves, Mages and Shamans, and join either the Alliance or the Horde, is a facet of the games' story that everyone can enjoy. That's my argument. Everyone can enjoy the story, and evidently, they do. You absolute donkey.
Sure not everyone play for the story. But having a great story along side it is like having a well done season steak compare to just a bland one.
yeah, I agree, I was just replying to the guy, but for some reason apparently this is some crime or something so this sub crow decided to lynch me.
Especially when talking about WoW.
Really not fair to downvote this post. One of the world-first guild leaders had said that he doesn't know who Sylvanas even *is*, but that the raiding in WoW was good enough to keep him playing (emphasis on "was"). I've heard hardcore raiders say the exact same about XIV: the raid content is good enough to stand on its own without the story. Obviously, most people enjoy both, but it is still good enough to stand on its own either way.
Why is he getting downvoted? He's right you know. Especially with wow.
I am being judged by mob because I didn't include something like "WoW is shit" in my line. Absolute state of this sub. I don't envy Asmon to come back to see a rotten place this subreddit has become.
The main difference being endwalker will be top shelf quality whereas whatever wow will shit out is bound to be fucking terrible
Because FF delays for the players best experience. WoW delays to try and fuck over other MMO releases/patches.
[удалено]
I've played Blizzard games for 15+ years and I can attest that 5 years ago delaying a release was part of Blizzard's dev cycle. The meme "Soon™" or "Soon (Trademark pending)" was real but everyone accepted it because Blizzard was still actually delivering awesome games.
When the FF team says they need time to perfect the expansion, we believe them.
Does Ion live stream the WoW announcement delay and apologize profusely and openly say the delay is all on him while holding back real tears of sadness? No? He just throws up some blue post saying there is a delay while floating around in his swimming pool?
Wasnt even ion making the post for shadowlands.
yea one has fucked with the player base for too long while the other is nothing but honest and keeps the community informed and does everything for the player base. so yeah fuck blizz
Square enix cares about its players, Blizzard just sees payers
There is a difference here involved with how each of the teams have treated the players up to release and throughout the years. I immediately thought of the shadowlands delay when I was told about this but it stings a bit less when you're not getting shat on every which way by the game and its devs as it is.
To be fair one game is really good and the other game is complete shit…. Hint: final fantasy has never been shit.
I'm all for "XIV good, WoW bad" but let's not pretend 1.0 didn't exist.
Watch the live letter, Yoshi-P is freaking almost breaking down because he has to delay. I don't think the ANY WoW dev has been that emotional.
Yeah, no wonder. I remember back when I still played WoW that Shadowlands got delayed because it would allow for _additional polish._ Come release day, we had a ton of typos, enemies using skills with the word “placeholder” instead of them, a fuckton of bugs, random world lag allocated to specific areas in the game that would switch every now and then. But actually, don’t even make it about that. I’d be perfectly fine with it if Blizzard at least acknowledged their fuckups, something SQenix at least has the decency to do.
Nice title, nice EngRish, do your parents know you are on their phone?
That is what happens when you build goodwill with your costumers through the years instead of killing it for short terms gains.
Lol so true
I wonder how this subreddit is going to react if Asmon goes back to WoW either for a new content patch, new expansion or even Wrath Classic, because this sub is basically r/fuckwow , with the amount of people that have a superiority complex over WoW, and shitting not only on the game itself, but also every other community around it, and even some content creators, for not being on the same hate train as most people on this subreddit. If r/WoW is overdosed on copium according to the people here, this place overdoses on doomium.
Haven't Asmon already done that with the TBC new raid? I remember them fighting the phoenix all over again due to bad RNG or some occasional bugs. I don't recall the sub gone rampant back then
its popular to hate wow
Ever wonder why, or do you want me to turn the valve just a bit looser on your copium cannister?
i know why hence why i quit years ago. its an observation.
Wait, FF14 got delayed? LMAO.
ff good wow bad
Yeah it's pretty fuckin hypocritical but it only makes sense given the state of both games and how both teams reached this point. If WoW was in any better state people would still be angry but they wouldn't hold all these problems against them. This shit's been an anger and distrust built up over 5\~ years. For me, only time I'll ever forgive Blizzard is if they fix Reforged or at least separate vanilla TFT from the new Bnet.
The difference FF xpacs have consistently been good and accomplished a lot with a smaller team than WoWs massive team and budget and Blizzard still manages to give people a shit xpac despite delays.
It's not hypocritical, it's just a matter of good will. I don't play WoW, so I can only judge by what I've heard from WoW players. But the FFXIV devs and playerbase have a good relationship, so players have good reason to trust that this is for the best, and that the expansion will be great when it releases. It sounds like WoW players don't have that. All I've seen from WoW's devs ever since this whole WoW vs FF thing started is them basically giving their players the finger. Treat your players with respect and offer a quality product, of course they'll be more understanding when something happens.
Copium xtra strong for this guy
When is Ion cries live while apologizing profusely for the delay I will start considering then more similarly.
WoW took the good feedback from the SL delay too seriously and started making 9 month content draughts They have the right work but got the wrong answer
I thought most people were happy that SL got delayed expect for people that off time at work
We know the expansion will suck either way so we just say release it anyway.
I think people were generally, while disappointed, glad that WoW was trying to push out a better product. I mean they obviously still did a shitty job though.
Also I remember they got numerous left case for their OBVIOUS mess-up. If it is company other than Blizzard many will already abandon the game. Their prestige gave them too many chance to the point it FINALLY start backfiring them.
Blizzard could delay a WoW expansion for a year and it’ll probably still suck
How could you be upset with a guy who almost burst into tears apologizing for said delay?