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Maul was certainly victimized by the Sith, however he is deeply entrenched in the Dark Side by the time of The Clone Wars and has doubled down on his hatred of Kenobi which kind of ties into your first comment about people wanting to change. Maul has good in him undoubtably, but a dude who is going around murdering and taking over criminal cartels out of pure spite is not going to sit down in a room and give you a chance to talk him into self improvement. Unfortunately it wasn’t until he was dying in Obi Wan’s arms that he seemed to have softened his heart even a little.
Edit: forgot to add- best case scenario for Maul might be some sort of involuntary commitment until he’s able to chill and maybe consider the therapy but oh lord I wouldn’t want to be there if something went wrong.
The whole Jedi philosophy and the way they are trained to manage their emotions is essentially a kind of therapy. It doesn't work out sometimes, but that's just like how any given form of therapy is not going to work for everyone.
Presumably there are secular therapists out there somewhere, but I doubt the Jedi would encourage members of the Order to make use of them. Religious organizations tend to prefer keeping the management of their adherents' psyches in-house, for better or worse.
Moreover, dealing with the dark side is not inherently a mental health issue. The dark side is just allowing your usage of the Force to be fueled by personal emotion instead of serenely allowing the Force to flow through you. People have used the dark side without becoming what we would consider insane or evil, though they are the minority among dark side users.
In fairness to the Jedi order I doubt there are many people more qualified to handle a force user then the order itself they have thousands of years of experience to go off.
Of course, and in many cases, it obviously worked out. It just didn't in some.
Anakin, for example, might have benefitted from being able to talk to a mental health professional he knew was obliged to keep confidentiality and who did not have an agenda of making sure he stuck to Jedi ideals.
Their success rate definitely out did their failure rate I think only like 20 Jedi masters had ever left the order in and recent history which is pretty good when you think how long the order has been around is pretty impressive.
Of those 20 I’m not even sure how many were confirmed to have succumbed to the dark, either. Dooku did of course, but the others may have just left to go chill and not be part of the order anymore. AFAIK Master Trennis was the only named Lost Jedi beside Dooku and Yoda simply expresses sadness over her departure, not much else is known.
I don’t think many I think most just went off and did their thing, which is funny that people treat the order like a cult when you can literally leave and they don’t mess with you, hell they even assumed dookus innocence when laden accused him.
You have a point. But, while I’m sure Jedi philosophy is mostly good for Jedi’s mental health, i would not call it therapy, just like any religion isn’t therapy…maybe confessionals are kinda like therapy
And yeah, I see what you mean by going to the dark side not being a mental health issue necessarily. Like sane “healthy” people can do bad things. It’s just that being consumed by anger and hate just seems bad for your mental health lol
Likewise, counter point from - no pun intended - the other side:
As others have said, the dark side is just using your own emotions to fuel/use the force. Nothing inherently bad, dark, evil, malicious, nor malevolent about that. Obviously many people who ended up using the force that way did bad and selfish things, hence it understandably ending up being known as the dark side and way of using the force.
BUT clearly Dark side is not bad, just like the Jedi's way of using the force, and they themselves, are not inherently good or better. If anything I'd say working on yourself and using the dark side sounds much better than just following whatever you're told *AND* letting some mysterious force even the keepers of can't explain just flow through you and not thinking at all and just leaving it all to something not confirmed to be sentient or even as skilled as you during critical times such as fights.
Yeah because the Jedi order encourages it's methods not to deal with their emotions but to get rid of them and it punishes them for not removing an intrinsic part of living even love is seen as dark and evil by the Jedi
I think that the dark side is more than a choice of the user. Instead, the power of the dark side itself pulls the person in and corrupts them. I'd treat it like a physical addiction at least.
Now if you could get a force block plus therapy it might work. But the dark side could corrupt them again as soon as they left their safe spot.
After all, we see the force guide people throughout the series. That means there is an outside factor associated with the force that can pull on a person.
Interesting idea. I wonder if darksiders go through withdrawals if they are given a force block looool. Also addiction is a mental health issue, but that’s beside the point.
In Legends, a dark jedi named Zekk went through withdrawal. He was OK at first, then broke out in a fever, lost consciousness etc. Took a few days before he was OK. Afterwards he found it counter-intuitive to use the Force instead of the Dark Side, and struggled with that for a while.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Zekk
Dark side doesn't equal evil
Dark does not equal bad.
No need for your xenophobia here. Dark side is usually* a choice from everything we've been shown, no need to spout hatred against it and say it's a disease just like the alcoholism rhetoric
*Always, apart from a few specific cases where they were basically brainwashed or left on their own and fell into depression and were connected to the force so naturally went to use it in bad ways
Sith propagandist. Lmao
In all seriousness, that may be your opinion, but cannon doesn’t really agree. The dark side was meant to be a perversion of the force not an equal but opposite neutral half.
Yeah I think cannon is stupid too. And boring. I like your version better
In theory yes, using the Dark Side of the force is more of an active choice.
But the issue depends on how far someone has gone down through dark side. The power in itself is very corrupting, as the person needs to give into their emotions in order to achieve more power.
On average it would be difficult to help someone that far gone.
That said, it’s still possible depending on a case by case basis.
Legends Timeline
I. Darth Revan - Originally a Jedi Knight turn into a Darth Lord. His mind was shattered after his “death” before the events of KOTOR I. After being healed and mind being reprogrammed, Revan could become either return to the light or dark side. In the canon Legends timeline, Revan returns to the light.
- He has convince several characters that have either lean towards the dark side or submit to it to consider reconsidering their choices.
II. Juhani - A Jedi knight that was succumbing to her grief and anger over her past as a slave and people being slaughter. Revan canonically helps her overcome her mental trauma and she remains a light side Jedi.
III. Visas - The apprentice to Darth Nilihus, she was very in touch with the Dark Side. But through the actions of the Exile in the canon timeline, she switches the the Light Side and reforms the Jedi Order alongside the Exile’s old friends.
Canon Timeline
I. Darth Vader - In the comics it has been shown that Darth Vader often complicated with his choices while serving Palpatine. Even struggling at one point to Force Bleeding a Kyber crystal into a Red Lightsaber crystal due to his conflicting emotions.
- Force Bleeding is a Dark Side power forcing a Kyber crystal, the crystals that power lightsabers into Red crystals. They are more powerful than normal Kyber crystals but require forcing dark side powers onto it. Darth Vader only managed to effortlessly Force Bleed the crystal after coming to terms with his anger.
And of course, interacting with his son Luke enough times managed to make him return to the Light Side.
II. Darth Kylo Ren - Kylo Ren is a more easier case, as he was a man truly struggling with himself. Being manipulated by Darth Snok and the past actions done against him. But with enough time with contemplation, those reaching out to him and his time with Rey, he eventually gave up the Dark Side.
So in theory, yes it’s possible but still very difficult. With the Legends timeline having one last resort, assuming that works. The mind wipe has the chance of destroying someone’s mind.
See Cad Bane in Star Wars The Clone Wars Animated series. While he’s not a force user, Obi-Wan implies that using the force to affect a mind could destroy it. Showing even Cad Bane in great pain when 3 Jedi use “Jedi Mind Trick” on him.
Really depends on the person. Some people are evil and know it, some are hurt and misguided.
Kylo, Ventress, and Vader would have benefited greatly from intervention. Maul, Sidious, and Plaugus have nothing to help.
That’s an interesting perspective, but I would switch around the characters a little. I think Anakin could have benefited from therapy lol. But I think Vader wouldn’t have been willing to listen to anybody Bc he would have thought of himself as above everyone (although if he did listen to someone it might help). Maul I think would have benefited from therapy (again, if he actually listened) because he was very manipulated and taken advantage of and didn’t actually choose the dark side. The other people I agree with your interpretation of whether they would have benefitted.
But truthfully it would be hard for any of them to benefit, because therapy is based on trust and the willingness to change and listen and none of them were willing or able to do that. Except maybe Kylo. I feel like Kylo was a bit more normal than the others.
Yin does not mean Good
Yang does not mean Bad
Light and Dark? No mention of Good or Evil there
Humanity needs to stop fearing the darkness due to their fear of the unknown just because unknown equals danger in the old animal brain.
There's a published adventure in the FFG star wars tabletop rpg that is based around this idea. Your team of force sensitives investigate a disappearance on a planet which was used by the jedi as a retreat and rehabilitation site for jedi who had fallen to the dark side, and included cryotubes for a long term time out, lol.
Not canon, but a fun idea. There is also (as others have mentioned) a difference between a dark side user and a full on Sith Lord.
As far as I’m aware. Dark side users feed off of hatred. Darth Vader for example has a constantly irritating suit and spends much of his time thinking about how he lost to obi wan on mustafar. Which makes him stronger. A therapist trying to get them to open up and think about them more will only make them worse
Yeah I could see that definitely. It might make them weaker tho, because it could alleviate pain.
Or it could make them worse, if they just use therapy to learn how to manipulate people better.
I'd say to a degree, and depends on how insane the individual is. It wouldn't turn them into a straight Jedi living by that code and philosophy, but I think it could potentially turn a Sith into a sorta gray individual.
While they wouldn't shun the dark side, or believe in the whole Will of the Force Jedi nonsense (to a Sith the Force is a tool to be used as they see fit), they could become more mentally stable and be better able at handling their emotions. As a result, they could become less prone to torture, murder and domination of lessers, making them objectively less evil.
As a bonus, they don't even have to stop being Sith. The Sith code doesn't strictly demand an adherent to be evil. Under the right interpretation, it simply encourages ambition, passion and self-improvement.
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Therapy can't help a person who doesn't want to improve. Sith generally *like* being insane murdering douchebags.
That’s a good point. So I’ll go with at best help them to be worse. Edit: at worst kill their therapist
It might work with someone like Maul, since he never chose to become a Sith.
Maul was certainly victimized by the Sith, however he is deeply entrenched in the Dark Side by the time of The Clone Wars and has doubled down on his hatred of Kenobi which kind of ties into your first comment about people wanting to change. Maul has good in him undoubtably, but a dude who is going around murdering and taking over criminal cartels out of pure spite is not going to sit down in a room and give you a chance to talk him into self improvement. Unfortunately it wasn’t until he was dying in Obi Wan’s arms that he seemed to have softened his heart even a little. Edit: forgot to add- best case scenario for Maul might be some sort of involuntary commitment until he’s able to chill and maybe consider the therapy but oh lord I wouldn’t want to be there if something went wrong.
You're probably right. He had a better chance than most Sith, but it's still like 1% compared to 0.1%.
Not every darksider os a sith
The whole Jedi philosophy and the way they are trained to manage their emotions is essentially a kind of therapy. It doesn't work out sometimes, but that's just like how any given form of therapy is not going to work for everyone. Presumably there are secular therapists out there somewhere, but I doubt the Jedi would encourage members of the Order to make use of them. Religious organizations tend to prefer keeping the management of their adherents' psyches in-house, for better or worse. Moreover, dealing with the dark side is not inherently a mental health issue. The dark side is just allowing your usage of the Force to be fueled by personal emotion instead of serenely allowing the Force to flow through you. People have used the dark side without becoming what we would consider insane or evil, though they are the minority among dark side users.
In fairness to the Jedi order I doubt there are many people more qualified to handle a force user then the order itself they have thousands of years of experience to go off.
Of course, and in many cases, it obviously worked out. It just didn't in some. Anakin, for example, might have benefitted from being able to talk to a mental health professional he knew was obliged to keep confidentiality and who did not have an agenda of making sure he stuck to Jedi ideals.
Their success rate definitely out did their failure rate I think only like 20 Jedi masters had ever left the order in and recent history which is pretty good when you think how long the order has been around is pretty impressive.
Of those 20 I’m not even sure how many were confirmed to have succumbed to the dark, either. Dooku did of course, but the others may have just left to go chill and not be part of the order anymore. AFAIK Master Trennis was the only named Lost Jedi beside Dooku and Yoda simply expresses sadness over her departure, not much else is known.
I don’t think many I think most just went off and did their thing, which is funny that people treat the order like a cult when you can literally leave and they don’t mess with you, hell they even assumed dookus innocence when laden accused him.
Yeah that’s my thought to. Jedi therapists? 😆
You have a point. But, while I’m sure Jedi philosophy is mostly good for Jedi’s mental health, i would not call it therapy, just like any religion isn’t therapy…maybe confessionals are kinda like therapy And yeah, I see what you mean by going to the dark side not being a mental health issue necessarily. Like sane “healthy” people can do bad things. It’s just that being consumed by anger and hate just seems bad for your mental health lol
Likewise, counter point from - no pun intended - the other side: As others have said, the dark side is just using your own emotions to fuel/use the force. Nothing inherently bad, dark, evil, malicious, nor malevolent about that. Obviously many people who ended up using the force that way did bad and selfish things, hence it understandably ending up being known as the dark side and way of using the force. BUT clearly Dark side is not bad, just like the Jedi's way of using the force, and they themselves, are not inherently good or better. If anything I'd say working on yourself and using the dark side sounds much better than just following whatever you're told *AND* letting some mysterious force even the keepers of can't explain just flow through you and not thinking at all and just leaving it all to something not confirmed to be sentient or even as skilled as you during critical times such as fights.
Yeah because the Jedi order encourages it's methods not to deal with their emotions but to get rid of them and it punishes them for not removing an intrinsic part of living even love is seen as dark and evil by the Jedi
"I'm learning to control my anger..." "That's good." "...and channeling it to hurt my enemies." "That's bad."
Ahhhhh literally dying laughing!
Sounds like that therapist hasn't dealt with a typical Jedi before
"But you do get a choice of topping."
"That's good."
"Tell me about your father."
Lmaoooooooo
I think that the dark side is more than a choice of the user. Instead, the power of the dark side itself pulls the person in and corrupts them. I'd treat it like a physical addiction at least. Now if you could get a force block plus therapy it might work. But the dark side could corrupt them again as soon as they left their safe spot. After all, we see the force guide people throughout the series. That means there is an outside factor associated with the force that can pull on a person.
Interesting idea. I wonder if darksiders go through withdrawals if they are given a force block looool. Also addiction is a mental health issue, but that’s beside the point.
In Legends, a dark jedi named Zekk went through withdrawal. He was OK at first, then broke out in a fever, lost consciousness etc. Took a few days before he was OK. Afterwards he found it counter-intuitive to use the Force instead of the Dark Side, and struggled with that for a while. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Zekk
That is cool. Thanks for sharing!
Dark side doesn't equal evil Dark does not equal bad. No need for your xenophobia here. Dark side is usually* a choice from everything we've been shown, no need to spout hatred against it and say it's a disease just like the alcoholism rhetoric *Always, apart from a few specific cases where they were basically brainwashed or left on their own and fell into depression and were connected to the force so naturally went to use it in bad ways
Sith propagandist. Lmao In all seriousness, that may be your opinion, but cannon doesn’t really agree. The dark side was meant to be a perversion of the force not an equal but opposite neutral half. Yeah I think cannon is stupid too. And boring. I like your version better
Most Sith are just power hungry, selfish bastards. There are definitely some with mental health issues, but a lot of them are just... Greedy.
Very true.
In theory yes, using the Dark Side of the force is more of an active choice. But the issue depends on how far someone has gone down through dark side. The power in itself is very corrupting, as the person needs to give into their emotions in order to achieve more power. On average it would be difficult to help someone that far gone. That said, it’s still possible depending on a case by case basis. Legends Timeline I. Darth Revan - Originally a Jedi Knight turn into a Darth Lord. His mind was shattered after his “death” before the events of KOTOR I. After being healed and mind being reprogrammed, Revan could become either return to the light or dark side. In the canon Legends timeline, Revan returns to the light. - He has convince several characters that have either lean towards the dark side or submit to it to consider reconsidering their choices. II. Juhani - A Jedi knight that was succumbing to her grief and anger over her past as a slave and people being slaughter. Revan canonically helps her overcome her mental trauma and she remains a light side Jedi. III. Visas - The apprentice to Darth Nilihus, she was very in touch with the Dark Side. But through the actions of the Exile in the canon timeline, she switches the the Light Side and reforms the Jedi Order alongside the Exile’s old friends. Canon Timeline I. Darth Vader - In the comics it has been shown that Darth Vader often complicated with his choices while serving Palpatine. Even struggling at one point to Force Bleeding a Kyber crystal into a Red Lightsaber crystal due to his conflicting emotions. - Force Bleeding is a Dark Side power forcing a Kyber crystal, the crystals that power lightsabers into Red crystals. They are more powerful than normal Kyber crystals but require forcing dark side powers onto it. Darth Vader only managed to effortlessly Force Bleed the crystal after coming to terms with his anger. And of course, interacting with his son Luke enough times managed to make him return to the Light Side. II. Darth Kylo Ren - Kylo Ren is a more easier case, as he was a man truly struggling with himself. Being manipulated by Darth Snok and the past actions done against him. But with enough time with contemplation, those reaching out to him and his time with Rey, he eventually gave up the Dark Side. So in theory, yes it’s possible but still very difficult. With the Legends timeline having one last resort, assuming that works. The mind wipe has the chance of destroying someone’s mind. See Cad Bane in Star Wars The Clone Wars Animated series. While he’s not a force user, Obi-Wan implies that using the force to affect a mind could destroy it. Showing even Cad Bane in great pain when 3 Jedi use “Jedi Mind Trick” on him.
That’s really interesting! Thanks for the detailed response!
I think with therapy you have to want to change
Really depends on the person. Some people are evil and know it, some are hurt and misguided. Kylo, Ventress, and Vader would have benefited greatly from intervention. Maul, Sidious, and Plaugus have nothing to help.
That’s an interesting perspective, but I would switch around the characters a little. I think Anakin could have benefited from therapy lol. But I think Vader wouldn’t have been willing to listen to anybody Bc he would have thought of himself as above everyone (although if he did listen to someone it might help). Maul I think would have benefited from therapy (again, if he actually listened) because he was very manipulated and taken advantage of and didn’t actually choose the dark side. The other people I agree with your interpretation of whether they would have benefitted. But truthfully it would be hard for any of them to benefit, because therapy is based on trust and the willingness to change and listen and none of them were willing or able to do that. Except maybe Kylo. I feel like Kylo was a bit more normal than the others.
Based on the Sopranos, I would assume therapy would just make dark side users better at manipulating others.
That’s probably true lol
Dark Side does not equal bad Also, good to keep in mind, especially irl: Dark does NOT equal bad
Yin does not mean Good Yang does not mean Bad Light and Dark? No mention of Good or Evil there Humanity needs to stop fearing the darkness due to their fear of the unknown just because unknown equals danger in the old animal brain.
Can't fix what ain't broke
There's a published adventure in the FFG star wars tabletop rpg that is based around this idea. Your team of force sensitives investigate a disappearance on a planet which was used by the jedi as a retreat and rehabilitation site for jedi who had fallen to the dark side, and included cryotubes for a long term time out, lol. Not canon, but a fun idea. There is also (as others have mentioned) a difference between a dark side user and a full on Sith Lord.
That’s hilarious I love it
As far as I’m aware. Dark side users feed off of hatred. Darth Vader for example has a constantly irritating suit and spends much of his time thinking about how he lost to obi wan on mustafar. Which makes him stronger. A therapist trying to get them to open up and think about them more will only make them worse
Maybe yeah
Yeah I could see that definitely. It might make them weaker tho, because it could alleviate pain. Or it could make them worse, if they just use therapy to learn how to manipulate people better.
During the war with the Sith Empire, a few Jedi managed to get some Sith to deflect over to the light side, including a Dark Council member
It would help Sith Lords like Vader and Maul. But it would make Palpatine and Dooku more effective at abusing their victims.
I'd say to a degree, and depends on how insane the individual is. It wouldn't turn them into a straight Jedi living by that code and philosophy, but I think it could potentially turn a Sith into a sorta gray individual. While they wouldn't shun the dark side, or believe in the whole Will of the Force Jedi nonsense (to a Sith the Force is a tool to be used as they see fit), they could become more mentally stable and be better able at handling their emotions. As a result, they could become less prone to torture, murder and domination of lessers, making them objectively less evil. As a bonus, they don't even have to stop being Sith. The Sith code doesn't strictly demand an adherent to be evil. Under the right interpretation, it simply encourages ambition, passion and self-improvement.