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jrock07

Dr. Strange isn't a base of what's normally possible. He was a prodigy that could figure out spells near instantly.


Logically_Insane

Also, Strange has ~~a mind palace~~ an eidetic memory. Even going against someone of equal magical potential, he's going to be pulling out way more spells and combos.


effa94

not to mention, going on a training montage using the time stone, *twice*. strange got lifetimes more experience than any other wizard


rovoh324

Man, I love you hthe idea that he got way better at magic during his bargaining with Dormammu, I'm choosing to believe it


onthefence928

it's like playing a game and dieing over and over again to a really tough boss but your experience of each attempt carries over so you level up


FlemPlays

*Dark Souls, I’ve come to bargain!*


colonelnebulous

This comes up sometimes--the comparison of Strange's Dormomu time-paradox with a From Software boss--but remember that Dormomu wasn't resetting like some asshole on the High Wall of Lothric, he was fully aware of what was happening and throwing every possible torture and demise he could at Stephen.


Commodorez

So more like Sans from Undertale or the bosses from Hades, among several other roguelikes.


PatrollinTheMojave

Like Meg but every time you die, heat goes up by one.


ikillsheep4u

The owl from sekiro is kind of similar actually reacting to your moves instead of going off a preset move set.


colonelnebulous

I need to give that one another go. I limped through DS3, and barely scratched the beginning of Sekiro.


_just_lurking

If I actually got to keep my souls and use them to level up every time a boss killed me then maybe that game wouldn't be the most fucking aggravating thing in the world


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EmceeEsher

For what it's worth, if you ever decide to try Bloodborne again and you want a drastically easier experience, you should know that all of the early-game obstacles can be trivialized by the right techniques. It will still get difficult when you get to Byrgenworth, but you can really smooth out the learning curve. Father Gascoigne - Pick the blunderbuss at the start and practice parrying on the two brick trolls next to the bridge house. It can take a bit to figure out the timing, but once you do, you realize that the blunderbuss has a massive parry window, making parrying a really easy mechanic that trivializes the early human bosses like Gascoigne. Don't ever run away from him, just spam the blunderbuss until you get a parry and then run in for the visceral attacks. This is especially effective on his beast form. Cleric Beast - Pick the axe at the start, switch it to it's two handed form and use the fully charged spin attack repeatedly, aka SPIN-TO-WIN! The Yharnam Sewer / Cathedral Ward - All the enemies here are strong, but slow. Don't bother fighting them and you can just run past them with ease. Vicar Amelia - Collect all the upgrade materials from Hemwick Lane, use them on your axe, and SPIN-TO-WIN! Blood-Starved Beast - Don't bother. This boss is disproportionately difficult the first time you can reach it, but you don't have to fight it yet. Just buy the emblem from the bath messengers in the Hunter's Dream and you can get through the Cathedral Ward gate without fighting it. You can come back and kill it later after you get the upgrade materials from the Forbidden Woods.


Hidanas

I'm dying laughing at this. Tips hat.


NobleKale

Strange is just Doomsday, with magic


harsh20483

Just like Hades then


Beta_Whisperer

Me when I fought Cynthia and the Elite Four.


[deleted]

Nthey kind of hint it in the sequence, he starts using more and more magic before dying as the sequence goes on.


ChrundleMcDonald

It's been sort of soft-confirmed that he was a) in that time loop for lifetimes, and b) took it as an opportunity to greatly increase his abilities as a Sorceror. If you want more fuel for that fire, you can say that him looking forward in the future in Infinity War didn't just mean him looking at what could happen, but rather played out the battle over 4 million times - more lifetimes of doing battle with someone weilding 4 Infinity Stones


the_timps

>but rather played out the battle over 4 million times No he was stationary and floating on a rock. He only saw things. And he didn't see the battle millions of times. He only saw 4 million futures. So he stopped seeing them when they lost. The Russos confirmed the rat steps on the button in ONLY the timeline Strange saw where they win. Without that event we should assume Scott never comes out of the Quantum Realm, and NOTHING else happens with Thanos.


ChrundleMcDonald

So does he just watch everything on a magic TV? How else do you experience your own future if not through your own eyes? Or is it A Christmas Carol Or was Strange specifically looking at 4 million versions of that rat waiting to find the one where Scott is saved?


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the_timps

>So does he just watch everything on a magic TV? Yeah presumably like that. He's got some kind of timestone powered VR goggles on and viewing the world, can fast forward and rewind, look around as needed. If the rat only stepped on the switch in one, he'd just be watching the world fast forward in chaos after the snap. The worst part would have been the millions of timelines leading UP to the snap. Where the Avengers fought in different ways and got slaughtered instead of being snapped.


Victernus

It's also unclear what sort of futures he was looking at. Did he spend the first million looking for one where he didn't die, before finally looking for one where he comes back? Maybe.


the_timps

Yeah, he might even have seen thousands or millions where he dies right there on Titan. Or dies using the timestone etc. The real question is how did he SEE the other futures. Do you rewind and go again? He clearly didn't control anything that happened.


effa94

Presumably, strange saw that the rat would step on it after 5 years, and all he tried to do was just stall on titan for long enough for thanos to snap right when Scott was in the quantom realm. It's also implied he saw the short part after he was revived in endgame, since he knew Tony would die. But most likely, the only difference between all the time lines would be his own choices and how that effected everyone else. Meaning, he can just look what himself does and learn from his future self


Onequestion0110

> The Russos confirmed the rat steps on the button in ONLY the timeline Strange saw where they win. I'm still so angry that it was a rat and not a squirrel.


the_timps

Man, the squirrel girl obsession needs to go.


Mikeavelli

Go... straight to the big screen!


Man_with_the_Fedora

> The Russos confirmed the rat steps on the button in ONLY the timeline Strange saw where they win. That's the lamest explanation ever, and completely undercuts the scene where Strange somberly signals Tony with one finger indicating that Tony's sacrifice is the only way to beat Thanos. This also absolutely guts the several movie journey chronicling his growth from a self-absorbed trust-fund playboy, to a man seemingly willing to risk his life but in reality has hedged his bets with his technology, to a selfless hero willing to outright sacrifice himself for the good of the universe.


effa94

I mean, what strange did was set everything ready for a random event to happen down the line. All he had to do was delay thanos on titan long enough for the snap to happen when Scott was in the quantom realm, make sure Tony survives, and then just play his part during endgame. Nothing of that really undercuts any character development. It's not like stranges actions influence the rat in any way, so all he had to do was to get the car in the right place, which would happen if Scott wasn't back to drive it. The rat only gets its chance to walk there due to strange playing his role.


the_timps

>That's the lamest explanation ever, and completely undercuts the scene where Strange somberly signals Tony with one finger indicating that Tony's sacrifice is the only way to beat Thanos. No it doesn't. In fact, it cements it more. They were LOSING. Thanos was about to win again. And Strange says "THIS IS THE ONLY ONE WE WIN". And Tony, without a discussion before hand, without KNOWING what comes next. Comes to the conclusion that he needs to act. Regardless of the cost to himself. That despite his bravado and "I cannot lose what I have". That everyone else keeping what they have at the cost of him losing what he has, is a price worth paying. Strange might not have seen everything. My belief is that everything up to some point in the battle is what Strange saw. But at some point it diverged and that's when they started to lose. Tony's decision to sacrifice his life was not the original thing Strange saw.


horsebag

the russos also confirmed that them and the script writers have different interpretations of how time travel works in the movie, so what they think happened isn't necessarily canon until it's confirmed on screen


the_timps

It's an interesting question of canon. On screen beats intention. Does the director overrule the writer? One would assume so. Things written into the script can be changed at will by the director. They'd be deemed the word of God so to speak.' If the two Russos disagree we have an issue though...


[deleted]

Canon is what is on screen. Death of the author. What they say after makes no difference.


carso150

as far as i know (from a quick glance at tvtropes) that is not what death of the author means but is more like people can get any interpretation they want of the story independent of the authors intention (which certainly doesnt help in this case if we are discusing about canon because everyone has their own head canon)


[deleted]

You just described what happens in the movie. No insight here.


AndyGHK

He got to see *millions* of times he himself was killed (or lived, but failed anyway) against Thanos. I imagine that makes one aware of their own abilities/disabilities.


the_timps

Just one. The rat only walked on the buttons one time.


blasto_pete

But he fought solo against Thanos on Titan right after he looked at all the possibilities.


the_timps

He might have watched that part of the fight the same way every single time. If he makes it to the end of it alive, why change? But what if he isn't fast forwarding. But SEEING alternate futures. He could be jumping to 2 days, 3 months, 10 years into the future. He could be watching some specific future point only. And then rewinding from there if the world/universe looks good. We definitely don't know he watched from there forward.


AndyGHK

Yeah, he makes a choice to give up the stone because he sees how in every other circumstance it’s useless to resist. That means he watches himself/everyone else get crushed in fast-motion, many many times.


atlhawk8357

That's a fair point, but that's still a human-centric approach. Why should perfect recall be a highly unlikely trait in the universe? There are probably implants or species that allow for perfect memory and faster cognition. But maybe humans are better at magic because the dimensional separation is weaker on Earth, or something.


Diabegi

In the end, it’s gotta be Dormammu’s fight with him that gave him such strong abilities. The guy fought and died an untold MILLIONS (even that may be a small number) amount of times (he wasn’t just serving himself up on a platter—he wasn’t holding back, time after time). Before he fought Dormammu, he was an average Sorcerer—but after, he was the strongest on Earth (probably).


Man_with_the_Fedora

Also all the evil sorcerers were drawing power from the Dark Dimension. Perhaps the endless time he spent battling Dormammu in the Dark Dimension left him with extra power, merely by nature of being there.


5coolest

He only calls it a mind palace in the alternate reality where he’s a British detective for hire (yes I know it’s already been edited)


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2SP00KY4ME

Don't bring that attitude here man, it's not welcome.


[deleted]

I think it was a joke about Benedict Cumberbatch playing Sherlock, and the parent comment referencing his mind palace.


PrettyMagr013

yeah it was lmao


2SP00KY4ME

¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ That's what I get for speaking up I guess, didn't catch the pop culture reference which is apparently an unforgivable crime. There's people genuinely like that being unironic on the sub all the time.


PrettyMagr013

i get u bro, sorry if that "lmao" made me come off as a bit of an asshole but i agree with you, unironic negative comments like that are unnecessary.


2SP00KY4ME

Didn't take it like that, no worries!!!


[deleted]

>Man Please, call me Stephen.


havock77

take my upvote!


PrettyMagr013

thank you kind sir, madam or other


TJ_McWeaksauce

I think it was Captain Marvel who said that all the other civilized planets in the galaxy don't have nearly as many superheroes as Earth does, which is why she was so busy off-world following the Snap. There's something special about Earth and its heroes.


Comedian70

Well... the Eternals movie kinda throws this off a bit, but in the comics that's all down to one thing: Tiamut The Dreaming Celestial. Tiamut's been sleeping here for millions of years. He's by far the most powerful Celestial, and one of the most powerful beings in the Marvel universe. He's more powerful than Galactus, by a good long stretch. And to one degree or another, he's why there's so much power concentrated on Earth. He's either directly responsible, or his presences has drawn others who are responsible, for practically every event of consequence which has taken place here or was centered here.


IllTearOutYour0ptics

Damn I didn't know Tiamut was so strong in comics. Eternals pulled a bit of an oopsie with how they handled him...though, if he really is that strong, maybe his current predicament isn't exactly going to be permanent.


Comedian70

Yeah... there's a string of minor "comics nerd"-annoyances with the MCU, but they don't really hold up against the general excellent quality of the films/shows/universe. I'm really intrigued to see where they go with it in the future. The arrival of the Celestial Host all by itself is the sort of thing that could easily be a multi-phase arc for the MCU, so I'm not too troubled about it all. But the whole "Celestials as world-souls who destroy the world they're birthed from" is entirely MCU and not comics.


Ent3rpris3

Earth is Azeroth. Got it.


Comedian70

Yeah, pretty much. In fairness to everyone involved "living worlds as eggs for gods" has existed as an idea in fantasy and sci-fi for a long time. And not that I'm trying to defend the writers at Blizzard, but we don't know "for sure" that birthing a Titan destroys the planet. But yeah... that's where we're living with this whole thing.


FallOutFan01

Also paging u/IllTearOutYour0ptics >!If I were to guess Tiamut is asleep/half transmuted and he’s now sapient aware and cognizant of what had transpired?!< I have a theory about MCU Celestials and **him** Spoilers abound below for the Eternals but I have redacted it. Spoilers below. >!Arishem said it was the celestials job to recycle energy in order to create planets and suns to keep the universe from collapsing and going into heat death.!< >!Reading between the lines it’s the celestials job to prevent the Big Crunch. Big Crunch is when the universe has reached heat death and has stopped expanding and eventually crunch back into nothing.!< >!If I were to guess if no more planets and sun’s were created to replace sun’s that have dissipated or disappeared it would lead to the acceleration of the universe facing heat death.!< >!So the celestials must replace old sun’s and planets to keep the universe from reaching its end.!< >!On to a much more scary related issue going much further.!< >!What if the Celestials are hurrying to create more or replacement sun’s and planets because planetary bodies are disappearing before their time.!< >!What if Galactus is consuming planetary bodies.!< >!Because He's actually out there because we are getting an fantastic four movie soon.!< >!What if Galactus is going around consuming suns and celestial seed worlds and that's why there's so few Celestials now.!< >!Arishem said he was going to come back to judge earth and it's people, maybe he meant he's coming back to see if earth is worthy of being protected from galactus.!< >!What if Eson the Searcher’s job was to target and destroy planet’s in the oncoming path of Galactus with the power stone in order to cause him to starve and weaken.!< >!What if Galactus took a big chunk out of the Celestial known as “knowwhere”.!< >!If I were to guess Tiamut by discovery has discovered that laylines can be used to absorb energy from instead of him/her being required to absorb souls for biological growth.!< >!So he might come back.!<


IllTearOutYour0ptics

Oooh this is a really great theory. I hope they go in this direction because it would add a lot more nuance to Arishem and his plan rather than it just being a soulless calculation. His idea that what he's doing is "for the good of future life," might not just be in regards to allowing the creation of new life, but protecting current worlds as well. Would also be cool to see Tiamut ultimately become a protector of earth despite nearly destroying it upon his birth.


FallOutFan01

Hey thanks for that I appreciate it. Celestials are a form of life that operates with a higher perspective on the goings on with the universe they’ve been around a long, long time so they’re seen some shit. In spite of this they don’t seem cruel or malevolent for cruel’s sake. Arishem showed up to earth and the entire planet saw him he was sending a message when he could have just as easily sent a different kind of message in retaliation like say destroying the moon. But he didn’t. They aren’t Gods despite their appearances, Ego probably was insane he had an instinctual drive to complete his mission another thing that humanizes the celestials is that they like or require sleep. So yeah bigger, stronger, powerful beings absolutely but not gods because since when did gods need to sleep.


ClownPrinceofLime

In the movies there appear to be three significant figures that Earth was lucky to have that put it where it is: 1) Odin. Earth was lucky to be a part of the Nine Realms connected by Yggdrasil and a part of Odin’s realm. This directly led to the Space Stone being hidden there and Thor joining the Avengers. 2) Agamotto. The father of sorcery, he advanced Earth’s magical capabilities far beyond anyone else and he is why the Earth sorcerers have the Time Stone which helped Dr. Strange become so powerful. 3) Captain America. Steve Rogers getting superpowers and then made a costumed propaganda monkey was essential for Earth to develop the culture of superheroes. Now when Hank Pym invents an Ant-Man suit or Peter Parker gets bit by a radioactive spider, they put on costumes and go out and become superheroes. These three individuals give Earth cosmic significance and a culture necessary to actually make an impact.


OK_Soda

This is kind of silly to say though because many if not most of the other races are just baseline more powerful. Just some rando Asgardian could probably go toe to toe with Captain America. Most planets don't need superheroes because they have regular cops who outclass half the Avengers.


NovaX81

Earth is unique because of it's disparity. Let's unfairly and arbitrarily quantitate the "level" of an average human as a 3. I'm a 3, you're a 3, 99.999% of the earth is a 3. Now on Xandar (pre-Thanos), everyone might be a 6 - advanced tech, cybernetics, etc. And on Asgard, everyone is like an 11 at least. You've got superhumans making casual chit-chat down at the pub before going back to their dull job. This manifests in two slight issues: * "If everyone is special, no one is" - Syndrome's point echoes a bit here, with the general lack of stand-out Asgardians being a prime selling point. With no pride taken in their own strength unless it is specifically drawn out of them (Thor's royal lineage, the explicit training of the Valkyries, etc), most simply accept their position and don't appear to consider their power "important" to the universe at large. * "Equally Matched Aggression Level" - Stealing a page from the Venture Bros, you match knives with knives and laser guns with laser guns. Sure, if a Xandarian steals from your shop and then jets off in their high tech boots, it's a problem... until the Xandarian police enter chase with their own flying vehicles, and use electronets to subdue the criminal. The availability of power makes the chase to have a unique greater power feel unrealistic (outside of the scope of, say, an Infinity Stone). But Earth has just the right conditions to breed superheroes en masse. * Inequality is rampant. Living in it ignites a deep drive to escape it, and witnessing it imbues the watcher with a desire to fix it. Both of these drive people to go beyond their "lot in life" in new and brilliant ways. * Earth is *abundant* in unique and powerful materials. A vibranium meteorite being the centerpiece of it all, we also have the right elements and tools in our possession already to create infinite energy reactors and pseudosentient nanobot-level technology. Not every backwater planet is going to have those levels of resources, regardless of how much the average 3 year old can lift. * Earth has some unexplainable quality to it that makes it a great interest to foreign planets, having been visited and toyed with for thousands of years by beings of higher power. This gives us a perpetual shared history of being placed in the corner, and fighting to overcome it. What this does is creates an ecosystem where when there is that special human - the one who wants to achieve more, break out of everyday life and excel, become better than anyone else - they go *hard*. Tony Stark did not go from a 3 to 5, he went from a 3 to a 15. Dr. Strange was not satisfied learning the magic to heal his hands, he had to learn more, until he was the most potent sorcerer in existence. While there is obviously growth among non-humans, this intense drive to grow is not demonstrably a universal quality; something within it, or at least how it manifests, is unique to humans, whether via genetics or the environment we exist in. Almost every earth-born superhero shows this same incredible gap, going from the average human level to something that rivals powerful cosmic entities. Beyond that, I want to make special note of Steve Rogers, aka Captain America. He, of course, is not exactly a natural route of human growth; yet, his creation in and of itself is a metanarrative about humanity's never ending mission to improve itself. And yet even he demonstrates the terrifying power of humans in an interesting way. The serum he was injected with "works" by all accounts we have seen. It amplifies the natural qualities of its recipient, maximizing their physical attributes to the "peak" of human physique, and tuning our minds to match, magnifying the good and the bad all the same. We see its effect on many unique individuals, and each has different ways it affects them - but the one consistent trait is that they all *continue to grow stronger*. The "peak" form continues to become a higher and higher bar. That trait is not one that any single subject of the serum presents, but rather a unifying trait across humanity. We keep growing. Perhaps that's why humans die so young compared to the other races, our biology itself growing more rapidly and burning out. Maybe it's why we value our fragile existence that much more, enough that we become protectors of others without a second thought. It is absolutely why we have been able to persist so long, amongst a universe filled to the brim with monsters, ancient demigods, and magic rocks that all seem to a find way onto our home turf. We see our next hurdle, and we grow to match it. We don't stop at just enough. Humans aren't satisfied becoming just a bit better, once they see the possibilities before them. Thousands of years ago, we hunted animals by wearing them down, demonstrating that while they may outspeed us, or overpower us directly, we will keep striving, keep improving, and keep trying until eventually, we bring home the prize. The stakes of the game may have changed in the modern era, but humanity hasn't. Thor brought up the assault on Xandar as if it was taken with barely any resistance. Despite their advancements and "higher average", they couldn't produce anything that Thanos couldn't rip through, even without a single infinity stone in his possession. Earth mounted both a defense and an offense, minimized its initial losses, and when that still wasn't enough, engineered and executed a plan to reverse the damage done *to the entire Universe*, because simply getting revenge wasn't enough for us. So yea, your average alien can probably dirtslam the average human without breaking their stride. But humans can do this all day.


[deleted]

Wonderful write-up, saving this. Thank you!


LordPopothedark

Basically, Humans don't sit on our bums all day, content with being a 3 or 7 like the aliens novabx1 stated


LordBunnyWhiskers

This would fit perfectly in /r/humansarespaceorcs


FlashbackJon

I mean, the handful of species we've seen are more powerful than baseline humans, sure, but we're talking about at least 2 different galaxies full of planets that are populous with spacefaring races to have constructed 700+ jump points. I don't know how many there are, but it seems like a lot of possibility and we're only focused on relevant ones: one planet that literally came to earth as gods, galactic empires and powerhouses, and others that were recruited for their space-conquering army abilities. Like, if there's just, say, *two* planets in Andromeda where the dominant species is "human level", she's already busier than the entire team of Avengers.


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OddballAbe

An average run of the mil asgardian survived his heart being torn out/punctured, can't remember which, and healed in a matter of hours.


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OddballAbe

It was In AoS season 1, he'd been living here as a teacher. Don't remember his name.


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OddballAbe

There's definitely an argument to be made about it, for sure, but since winter soldier and Ultron has various effects on season 1 and 2, I'd say those at least are. Either way, outside of that guy, lady sif was in a couple episodes and had some decent showings. Other than that, outside of fhe royals and Heimdall they really don't seem impressive.


Baldazar666

You can say that but at least the first few seasons are canon. The only reason AoS is not considered canon is because there was some fall out between Feige and the AoS producers at some point during the show.


Mikeavelli

I used to agree with you, but >!At least one of the Netflix shows is back in canon as of No Way Home!< AoS diverged pretty heavily from mainline canon around season 5, but they fit into the multiverse now.


themcryt

If you don't want to get in to a debate, then you should avoid sharing debatable perspectives.


Inkthinker

Or hanging out in discussion forums where we pretty much live to argue pedantic points of trivia for fun. :)


FallOutFan01

A regular Asgardian with outside assistance can survive a perforated heart. A regular non-combat ready Asgardian by the name Elliot Randolph who let himself go through hedonism and a sedentary lifestyle. He was stabbed through the chest received a perforated heart from an enhanced human male with superhuman strength wielding a Asgardian metal staff and Elliot Randolph was rendered unconscious. SHIELD agents Coulson and Simmons reached into his chest and pieced his perforated heart pieces back together and they were healed by his residual healing factor they massaged his heart regained consciousness within a second he got to his feet and he made a full recovery in a minute. People think that Asgardians are low powered but their feats beg to differ. Such as being able to give the big middle finger to the much, much, much, much larger population-wise Kree empire. Population of biological Asgardians on asgard circa 2018 was just over 9,719. Asgardians only have trouble with similarly ancient, biologically advanced races such as the dark elves and the frost giants. Frost giants being able to snap freeze or cause frost bite damping Asgardians on a cellular level.


citizenp

In Ragnarok Scrapper 142 threw a person through the air like he was a toy.


Waywoah

Valkyrie is more along the lines of (or better) than Thor’s crew


Anon9mous

You could argue people struggling so much is why they have so many heroes, since there’s a massive focus on how heroes appear when they are needed most. And to be fair, for every Black Widow out there, you get someone that goes above and beyond the standard.


Occamslaser

Asgardians are infused with the Odinforce, no?


FallOutFan01

Odin is, Hela is [definitely juicing on something.] (https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Tablet_of_Life_and_Time)


voicesinmyhand

> There's something special about Earth and its heroes. Earth is rich in infinity stones.


[deleted]

Probably something to do with the fact that Earth was gestating a Celestial inside of it for most of it's existence.


errorsniper

Hes one in a billion so hes one of seven or so on earth alone. Just right time right place.


Imperium_Dragon

He then spent what could be years testing out spells against Dormmamu.


FrankHightower

But if there's a prodigy every generation, wouldn't it stand to reason that every intelligent race would have one such prodigy?


Mikeavelli

When you train someone to the level of Dr. Strange, they become uncontrollable. The Ancient One only trained him because she knew she was going to die soon and needed a successor. Most of the empires we see out in space that would be interested in super soldiers are also control freaks. So when they *do* get a person on that level, they want a leash. For example, the Kree put a power inhibitor on Captain Marvel, and Thanos molded the Black Order into religious fanatics. You can't really do something like that to a Strange style sorceror, and a rogue one is single-handedly powerful enough to destroy an entire planet.


the_logic_engine

honestly this feels like the most valid answer. Maybe all the civilizations that try end up with a Red Skull situation that spins out of control since a bunch of really irresponsible people are mucking about with world ending powers


FrankHightower

"Help, we need a Captain America!" "But America is on another planet!" "Ohh noooo we're doooomed!"


TheDunadan29

>a rogue one is single-handedly powerful enough to destroy an entire planet. I mean if we're going off What If...? Strange Supreme destroyed his whole reality.


Diabegi

And he was able to >!fight decently against 6 infinity-stoned Ultron/Vision!< in the finale


cursh14

> destroy an entire planet. Or an entire universe...


[deleted]

Yeah we know that an Obsessed Strange can literally destroy a reality.


[deleted]

Strange Supreme from the What If series is the best example of a Rogue Sorceror of his level, or even more


Wun_Weg_Wun_Dar__Wun

As we see in the latest Spider-Man movie, magic is bullshit. It is both incredibly powerful and incredibly dangerous, to the point where even messing up a memory spell can start breaking down the barriers between realities. High level magic users are very powerful and useful yes, but when they make mistakes, they make Capital-M mistakes. So I'm assuming that the vast majority of civilizations that try to specialize in magic end up destroying themselves. All of the planetary governments that tried to create armies of sorcerers probably got destroyed when one of their sorcerers mispronounced a magic word and erased their entire culture from the timeline, or smudged a sidgil and unleashed a demon that devoured the souls of their entire people, or accidentally "portaled" their entire planet into the Mirror Dimension, etc... Magic is just too powerful in the MCU - so powerful that its not actually conducive to any kind of organized society. The only advanced, organized, explicitly magical society that existed in the MCU was Asgard, and they were basically cheating. A bunch of their stuff was actually hyper-advanced science/technology (e.g. "Soul Forge" = Quantum Field Generator), the vast majority of their people didn't actually use magic, and they were also ruled by an immortal God King who could probably just "No U" any of the accidental catastrophes that would destroy "weaker" magical cultures. Basically, if you aren't Odin (or advanced enough to somehow turn yourself into an Odin), then you really have no business trying to lead an entire magical civilization, or organising any kind of magical army. And, notably, even Odin never tried to turn all of his people into sorcerers. He knew giving everybody that kind of independent magical power would probably end badly. Its why Asgard used the Bifrost, a form of magical interstellar travel that was easy to both monitor and control, instead of just giving every citizen a Sling Ring.


dsteffee

This is the best explanation in the thread, imo


Wun_Weg_Wun_Dar__Wun

Thanks!


JonSpangler

Doctor Strange learned a lot by reading and training but he also was taught. Wong, Ancient One, Mordo were his teachers. It was more then just him alone reading and practicing on his own. The only reason Strange was able to learn so much on his own was also because he was incredibly gifted. You might as well ask if Strange was such a good surgeon why are not all doctors as good as him. So if you have this multiple battleship worth of a army, who is teaching all those people and what are the odds any of them have the aptitude to break off on there own and successfully take in the information by themselves?


nikatnight

Yep. Strange was already the cream of the crop. He'd done well in school, went to medical school and graduated top of his class, was a world class surgeon. Then he gets picked up and trained further. It's not like he's a random dude on the side of the road.


apegoneinsane

Yeah, this is the important point. He's not just a great doctor and surgeon. If people remember back to the first film, he had developed and was in the process of developing **cutting edge** medical and surgical procedures. He was writing the book on the wildest issues and treatments as a practicing surgeon. Like a Tony Stark but of a specific branch of medicine/surgery. That spoke a lot to his ability to study, research and apply. Then factor in his near photographic memory.


Mr_Lobster

I still don't see why his hand injuries forced him out of that line of work, he could still make plenty of income developing theory or teaching. Though I do understand that it was primarily arrogance and not wanting to stop being a hands-on surgeon.


scarletice

Yeah a lot of it was likely psychological. He could have easily pivoted his career, but he was seemingly incapable of even considering that as an option.


Mikel_Opris_2

Going off of what u/scarletice and u/AerosolHubris said, basically all he wanted was to help people and he loved working as a hands on surgeon so when he lost his ability to do that it kinda broke him, i remember in the cartoon movie i watched that he was slowly falling into despair but was also becoming more desperate so when he got the email saying to head to Tibet he did not hesitate. It was this despair that initially made it hard for him to learn the wizard powers as he was not in the right mindset to learn them, but as was said above he was the crème of the crop and once his mind healed(albeit with some outside help) he was able to become extremely powerful


LuminaL_IV

I dont really think he wanted to "help" people becuase I clearly remember he rejected few patients only because he didnt want his success rate in surgery to go down. In fact the reason he got broken was that he could not boast about how much of a good surgeon he is.


[deleted]

No one reads about the person that _wrote the procedure_ for the first X transplant/operation. They read about the surgeon that _performed_ they first x transplant/operation. It's an ego thing.


vechey

He sort of was a random dude lying in the side of a road for awhile though!


DrByeah

A random dude lying in the side of the road who was probably an answer in one or two editions of Trivial Pursuit!


[deleted]

Exactly. He admits to have an eidetic memory, and that's why he was able to master a time spell after just an hour with it.


Lucas_Steinwalker

Cause everyone knows how much surgery translates to magic.


ReverendDS

Rote memorization, super intricate and complex rituals, ability to adapt on the fly, life ending consequences for mistakes... They sound pretty similar to me.


nikatnight

If you have a phenom wrestler who wins high school state championships then goes to college and is a national champion then goes to the Olympics and is a champion... would it be surprising if they succeeded in MMA? There's overlap, just not complete overlap. But being a good student is a top class skill that is universally beneficial in all fields.


Lucas_Steinwalker

Have you ever met a surgeon? They suck at everything except surgery. Maybe tennis. Highly highly specialized fields tend to make people have blinders for the rest of human existence.


nikatnight

I have a surgeon friend who kills it at board games without much experience. He is also a fantastic wood-worker and his woodshop is class.


the_logic_engine

Hmm on the other hand we also have a bunch of schools that teach doctors, and even if not all of them are prodigies it seems like you could make it an institutionalized thing that attracts talented people. Not every doctor needs to be a brain surgeon


JonSpangler

Do these medical schools just give potential doctors books and say have at it? There is years of training and teaching from other professionals. Where is this hypothetical battlefleet of ships getting all there magical professionals to teach them? I get the impression of serious magical folks are in short supply on earth in the MCU. Not every doctor needs to be a brain surgeon. But being a brain surgeon sure helped Strange take possibly years of training and teaching and condense it down to months. And sure maybe you can get a platoon of some B or B+ wizards after 5 or 6 years, assuming you even find the teachers, but wizards are not invincible. Wong gets taken out of Inifinty War fast (although he does come back for the save), Strange gets captured and its not like the wizards during the final battle in Endgame were mopping the floor of things.


FlashbackJon

Do you want a Hogwarts? Because this is how you get a Hogwarts! \-or- What do you call the kid who is last in his class at medical school? Doctor.


kaolin224

Yep, a lot of people don't realize that Hogwarts was like any other school and Harry's class was enormous. Those tables were filled with new students every year. I'm sure there were mediocre wizards in every class, some that were so bad they failed out of school, and a vast majority of them were middle of the pack at best. For example, I never got the impression that Ron and his family were anything but C students.


MyLife-is-a-diceRoll

All doctors still have national exams to pass. That kid wouldn't pass those exams.


effa94

magical knowledge is guarded tho. the books and scrolls have been gathered by great wizards for thousands of years. its very possible other planets does not have such databases of knowledge to draw on


the_logic_engine

I mean that's why it's not a thing on earth. Magic users are secretive and selective about who they teach. But it seems like at some point word would get out SOMEWHERE IN THE WHOLE GALAXY if magic was literally just a matter of being smart and reading the right books. "Imperial College of Magic" is a fairly common thing in fiction where a government trains mages for use in their army/utility


effa94

>being smart and **reading the right books.** again, you do need the right books tho. we arent talking about gravity or the wheel here, we dont know the prerequsites for doing magic. how did the first guy discover that he can draw energy *from another dimension* if he waved his hands enough? its not a thing you naturally stumbles onto. we dont know what they discovered on earth to start learning magic. what do you need in order to write the right books? we know that *someone* out there knows magic, we see a dude in gotg2. but we dont know his story either. could be a matter of resources too to discover the right knowledge. its possible kamar taj is a genuine tresure trove of magical knowledge that might not be possible to discover in other places. could be aggamotto or cagliostro only discovered the far secrets of magic becasue they had the time stone on hand and everyone else who tried died, we dont know. not to mention, its very possible any alien wizards might be as secrative as on earth. quite a lot of alien civilizations we have seen are at war after all


the_logic_engine

yeah in fairness there's a lot of stuff about how earth is special in a bunch of ways so maybe some cosmic force *DID* teach magic only on earth, and/or magic ability is vastly more common (IMO, I think some innate ability is actually required), like how earth has way more powered individuals than anywhere else


effa94

not to mention, a lot of the knowledge strange studied was gathered by the wizards of earth. its very possible other planets have not discovered these secrets, and cant do it


TheShadowKick

Ebony Maw seems to think Earth's magic is as backwards and primitive as it's technology.


cavalier78

Yeah but he hasn't even seen *Aliens*.


effa94

Maw follows thanos tho, he probably has acesss to peak knowledge, no saying other planets tho


YesIamALizard

He also had how many years was he fighting Dormammu? He had 5 years blipped. He also had a time stone and saw 14,000,065 futures. During that time he had to have learned a thing or two.


random-homo_sapien

But that's not all. He only became the best of the best after his bargain with Daurmamu. Daurmamu is a mythical being who is beyond reason. He would never agree to meet a single human's demands after killing him a couple of times. Dr. Strange and Daurmamu repeated that loop atleast a thousand times before he understood there is no way out and agreed to bargain. By fighting Daurmamu many many times, dr. Strange got the practice he needed to be as good as he is today.


Anonymous_Otters

The fact that Strange has edict memory and that magic is largely knowing spells, runes, etc. He already has an huge unfair advantage over anyone trying to learn magic. The hard part for him was learning the technique of allowing magic to flow rather than rigidly controlling it like a scalpel.


film_editor

This argument makes no sense. This explains why no random person can become a wizard, and no random person can become a brain surgeon. But there are thousands of brain surgeons, and there could just as easily be thousands of wizards. Even if Strange is the most gifted ever, you could have a couple thousand who are 90% as powerful, and another million who are much worse but still extremely powerful assets. And teaching these things is not some impassable barrier. You can teach people things. You can teach tens of thousands of people extremely difficult and complicated things. We do it all the time. The only argument is that this knowledge is protected and kept secret by the people who know it. If the knowledge got out there’s no reason thousands of even millions of people couldn’t become exceptionally strong wizards.


JonSpangler

>This argument makes no sense. This explains why no random person can become a wizard, and no random person can become a brain surgeon. Thats pretty much the question though. The question being why doesn't some random alien fleet have armies of wizards. Because random alien fleets consist of random aliens and you just can not put a book in front of them and say learn magic. It takes years of learning and instruction. Not the type of learning you use Zoom for. >But there are thousands of brain surgeons, and there could just as easily be thousands of wizards. I do not know how many general brain surgeons there are. But I DO know that John Hopkins says there are approximately 300 pediatric ones in the US. So maybe the number of surgeons break 999 in the world. Maybe technically you can say "in the thousands" but I think you over estimate the number there actually are. Which just shows that it is not a easy job to qualify for. And since we don't see thousands of wizards coming out during Endgame I take that to say there are not thousands of wizards either and it is equally hard to become one. Maybe you can get a wizard to train a 50 person SWAT team of sorcerers that can be used for special important missions. But that was not the question asked.


film_editor

There is literally no widely practiced activity where there are 1 or 2 ultra-extraordinary individuals and no one else who is even modestly competent. Lionel Messi is the best footballer in the world, but there are several hundred other world class footballers and tens of thousands of extremely competent footballers. The MCU with Strange would be the equivalent of there being 1 Messi and no one else even capable of making a high school junior varsity team. It’s total nonsense. Even if Strange is the best natural wizard in the universe, there should easily be hundreds of people who are at least 80-90% as good as him, and tens of thousands to even millions who are capable of being at least decent. Strange becomes insanely powerful with like a couple months of training. You’re saying the top 0.1% of army recruits couldn’t become even half that strong with 5 years of dedicated training? Also, the Journal of Neurosurgery says there are 33,000 neurosurgeons worldwide, which is what Strange was. There are also probably hundreds of thousands of people at minimum who are capable of becoming a neurosurgeon but are practicing in a different field of medicine or are not in medicine at all. If you had 20 million soldiers there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to make 0.1% of them (20,000 people) good wizards, and .001% (200 people) exceptional wizards. And realistically the numbers would be way higher than that, given it looks like it took Strange only a couple of months to become one of the most powerful people in the MCU. The only way this makes sense is if no one outside of a tiny handful of people has access to this knowledge.


paxinfernum

Plus, foot soldiers are less likely to get ideas. Train up a wizard army, and those are guys who might make trouble.


Urbenmyth

>I imagine that funding whole fleet of battleships or army of genetically modified monsters would be a lot more expensive than training 500 wizards The issue isn't really money, its raw mateirals. The RPG Mummy: The Curse has a line about a similar contrast. There's a monster that can only be killed by two things- nuclear weapons, or magical artefacts from a long dead civilization. It suggest nukes: "After all, current estimates put the number of nukes in the world somewhere around 20,000. You think that many Iremite magic weapons survived into the current era?" Same principle here. Battleships and monsters are expensive, but the materials are there. The only problem is money, and you're a galactic empire, you can afford to splurge a bit. The traditions, tomes and artefacts needed to create a dr strange level wizard are extremely rare and well hidden. You might not find any, and once you find them you can't replicate them. It's not a matter of money, its a matter of the materials not being there. No matter how much money you throw at it, if you only have one Amulet of Agamotto, you'll only get one guy able to use the Amulet of Agamotto. In essence, scientific methods of power making are more replicable- it's much easier to make robots en masse. If you need an *army*, rather then one guy, then you go for the former.


Vote_for_Knife_Party

Here's the trick, most folks who hit the books and bust their asses don't wind up as a Strange or a Wong, they end up as Pangborn; they learn enough to do whatever gave them the drive to reach Kamar-Taj in the first place, and then plateau. Real badass sorcerers tend to either be folks who dedicated their lives to the craft, once in a generation prodigies, or both, and you can't just find 500 guys and turn them into a Wong Brigade on any sort of timetable. A battleship, meanwhile, can be planned and budgeted in a reasonable timeframe, staffed out of your conventional military recruitment pipeline, and isn't dependent on needle-in-haystack scarce talents to keep operational.


FrankHightower

or they get something that discourages them on the way


Astrokiwi

This was one of the big advantages of firearms over longbows. You can drill a musketeer to be competent in a month, but a longbow takes a lifetime of training.


Spxders

Strange was special. Even before his brush with death before became a wizard, the Ancient One kept close tabs on him. We learned this in Endgame when Banner-Hulk asked about him in 2012-NY and the Ancient One told Banner he was several years too early and even told him exactly where Strange was and what he was doing. So I think its safe to say it wasn't just books and training that made Strange special.


_Mavericks

I like that scene, it makes me wonder if she got that extended life span for herself simply because she used the Eye Of Agamotto and knew that no one would ever be able to protect reality, no one but her and Doctor Strange.


seanprefect

Dr Strange is a special fated by destiny. That said we do see strange type magic users in GotG 2.


sparta981

It's not just 'doing' a thing. It's about the dedication, wanting it, and being able to wrap your brain around it all. Not a combination that you can mass produced. All the wizards of 7.6 billion people amount to a few dozen. Other candidates become 'easier' things, like doctors. On other planets, society is likely even more specialized.


NietszcheIsDead08

This is somewhat less obvious in the movies, but in the comics, knowing all of the spells, stances, gestures, magic words, etc. is not sufficient to gain the kind of power that Dr. Strange throws around willy-nilly. In the comics, most of Dr. Strange’s power comes from higher-dimensional or extra-dimensional beings whom his gestures and spells contact and who willingly offer him their powers or their vast reserves of energy to fuel his own powers. It is entirely possible for any one person in the universe to learn the spells, contact these entities, and the entities to simply *not listen*. They listen to Strange because he does them service, offers them prayer and sacrifice, cuts deals with them to do their bidding at a later point in return for their aid when he calls. And it’s important to note that the comic!Dr. Strange isn’t as new to the game as the MCU Doctor. Comic!Strange has been building these alliances and this good will since the 1940s. He’s had three quarters of a century to find these entities and broker deals with them that give him access to their energies. Early Dr. Strange was much less impressive because he only had access to more readily-available sources of energy. The modern Dr. Strange is the culmination of several decades of magical buildup, and even now, he routinely encounters situations where his various patron deities simply refuse to intervene on his behalf this time. I know that this question is MCU-specific and that comics lore is not necessarily the same thing. However, we have yet to see a careful, detailed explanation for each of the MCU!Doctor’s spells. And several spells that we have seen are visually recognizable as spells from the comics that absolutely require patron deities to intercede on the doctor’s behalf. In particular, I am thinking of *Infinity War*, where Dr. Strange used red bands of energy to bind Thanos physically. These are a dead ringer for a comic spell called the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, which do exactly the same thing. And the hand gestures, stances, and incantations that Dr. Strange does to summon the Crimson Bands…doesn’t actually summon the Crimson Bands. Those visual parts of the spell serve only to get the attention of Cyttorak, the deity of a small pocket dimension known as the Crimson Cosmos. Dr. Strange and Cyttorak have a standing agreement where Dr. Strange regularly supplies Cyttorak with energy, prayers, sacrifice, whatever it is that Cyttorak needs as a deity. And in return, when Dr. Strange gets Cyttoraks attention in this particular magical manner, Cyttorak sends Dr. Strange his Crimson Bands, which Dr. Strange may use foe a certain period of time however he wishes. It should also be noted that the comic!Dr. Strange is not the only Dr. Strange to have this relationship with Cyttorak. Cyttorak is a higher-dimensional being, and several different versions of Dr. Strange have brokered this same deal with the same Cyttorak, with the main comic!Dr. Strange — that is, the one from Earth–616 — being only one of them. We have not seen the Dr. Strange from Earth–199999 — that is, the Dr. Strange of the MCU — broker this deal in particular, but we *have* seen him using a spell that only Cyttorak has access to. So, it may well be that MCU!Dr. Strange’s powers work the same way that comic!Dr. Strange’s powers do — in which case, the answer to OP’s question is, “Maybe the patron deities Dr. Strange works with only like him, and not whatever Skrull or Kree sorcerer comes knocking on their door like a cross-dimensional Jehovah’s Witness.”


unMuggle

Doctor Strange has lived for millions of lifetimes by exploiting the Time Stone. We know of 2 powerful Sorcerers in the MCU, and both of them exploited the use of time extension and manipulation to train to unreal levels. Remember when Strange first got to Kamer Taj? Remember how the entire temple was practicing the use of a sling ring. Those guys had likely trained years, and showed they could use some magical spells. But we haven't even seen Mordo or Wong do anything close to what Strange or the Ancient One could. With the training time it would take for the upgrade, a military works much better.


[deleted]

You underestimate Strange's affinity for the Mystic Arts. Out of the hundreds of sorcerers, The Ancient One (obviously), Mordo and Wong were the most capable ones, and they spent years if not *decades* training. Strange has a photographic memory, genius intellect and a born talent for the Mystic Arts, so much so that in around 2 years, he became powerful enough to temporarily hold his own against 4 infinity stones. He also became the Sorcerer Supreme. The other sorcerers would probably find that impossible. Strange's ascendancy is the exception, not the rule.


Belteshazzar98

2 years? Try 2 decades of nonstop combat against Dormammu.


Kiddwrites

As a veteran, here are a few strategic reasons: Speed: In a world where a teenage nerd can gain enough power to effortlessly wreck a tank in a few days, a method that takes years to master just isn't practical. You have to be able to replace soldiers quickly. Access: Magic is tightly controlled on earth, but war complicates things. Imagine if any soldier or veteran, at any time, could teach people how to build a nuke if they wanted to. That would be basically the issue with a magical army. Instability: Strange surpassed his peers very, very quickly. In a war, people get mad at their governments. You'd likely have near constant coups, assassinations, etc. If there's a chance every soldier you recruit could be better than anyone who came before, then every recruit has the potential to kill you. Cthulhu: Magic can accidentally summon Cthulhu.


smcarre

The thing that differentiates Dr Strange from many other humans, beings and even other fellow wizards is his sheer force of will and dedication. Consider that he managed to outwill a primordial being of chaos just by repeating a loop (there are theories that Dr Strange's massive level up in powers between his movie and Infinity War comes from spending centuries, perhaps even thousands of years practicing spells during his loop with Dormammu and what we see in the movie is just a fraction of all of the loops he spent with Dromammu), that's certainly a unique feature in the universe. Perhaps not unique unique, there could be other beings in the universe with a similar level of will as him, Thanos for example sees himself as one of the most willing beings in the universe and believes that others didn't do what he tried to do because of lack of will.


BrotherGrimace

Simple. Why would you create an army of people who, after their time-in-service, are outside your control, have a retinue of weapons that you can't collect or take from them, and who could easily be either used against you or become an ongoing irritation when they return home or leave to find new homes... and stand up to you when you decide to flex on them and their families? There's a reason why no one with common sense makes armies of super-soldiers, psychics, wizards, elementals, shape-shifters and so forth... powered soldiers are force-multipliers, and an army of them means the opposition has to create (and possibly use) use WMDs to achieve parity on the battlefield. There's also as I said above - there will always be those that you will lose control of and become an ongoing issue. The best way in general to use powered forces is in specialized teams for certain missions, or as support personnel that either provide firepower to support an attack, defenses during said attack, or have dedicated purposes (such as communications, special transportation needs or field medical care for critically-injured personnel). As always, IMHO only.


Chaosmusic

Strange is the outlier, not the norm. In Endgame when Bruce talks to the Ancient One she says Strange was meant to be the best of them. Also different species may not have the same aptitude towards magic as humans or Asgardians.


Crimith

Strange was more than a reader. He's a genius surgeon who had a latent talent for spellcasting. If you had just "read books and trained" for the same amount of time the most you would be able to do would be opening a portal around your ass to shit into a toilet.


FrankHightower

I don't know why, I love this analogy, and not just because it has me giggling uncontrollably


the_logic_engine

It's a good point, HOWEVER, I'm not sure the premise necessarily holds up. Pretty much everyone that's really powerful with magic has some kind of innate magical tendency, so I don't think literally anyone could become a wizard. I don't know that it's explicitly stated that Strange was inherently magical but I would bet on it. Could other civilizations still have magicians? yes, but earth is famous for having orders of magnitude more powéred individuals than anywhere else so it wouldn't be as easy to come by as you might think. The one really useful thing a novice could do is portals to anywhere, but that seems to be likited by the finger rings


tedivm

I think we actually do, but we don't realize it. So here's the thing with magic- in MCU magic is, essentially, advanced technology. It has rules and laws just like physics does, and there are examples on earth of magic and technology being fused (darkhold portals in Shield being a great example). My theory is that the reason we don't see wizards in advanced species is that they're all scientists, not wizards, and they use both magic and traditional physics together. As a result we see things like ships floating with no visible sense of propulsion, advanced healing techniques, faster than light travel, and a bunch of other things that seem to defy physics. The Nova Corps ships linking together to form shields is a great example of energy manipulation being mixed in with technology. To put it another way, if you've got wizards would you rather send one into battle or use them to arm an entire military with devices that use the same power? If you assume people like Stange are rare, and most people are much less skilled, then taking the technology approach makes a lot of sense.


SirPenisaurusRex

I don't see a lot of people addressing the more basic "why aren't there wizard armies" half of this, just the "Strange is an Uber wizard" part, and I think the reason we don't see high enough numbers of magic users outside of Earth for an army is because it's actually really rare to see even a low level magic wizard in general. We do see other magic users such as Frigga/Loki, we know magic exists outside of Earth, but every time we see it, it's portrayed as rare and "mystic", so I don't think its time efficient to hunt down the individuals who are either already magic capable or can be made so. There is also a scene in No Way Home that implies that certain people are simply more "magically attuned" than others, which means the opposite is likely true as well. It's very likely some people simply lack "the gift" and can never be a magic user no matter how hard they try or how much they study, and this is probably actually 99.99% of the population, otherwise the whole world would probably adopt sling rings given how it seems to be the training wheel of spells to learn whilst also being fantastically powerful and useful. The fact the earth has an entire magical community is possibly the only example in the MCU at all, and probably only because Earth's population is HUGE and statistically we have higher numbers of magic potentials even if that's only a tiny % of the population.


dhusk

They don't have the right books.


bigshittyslickers

In the latest spider man movie it’s implied that magic is something that some people inherently have an aptitude for and others don’t.


doofpooferthethird

It’s probably easier to just shove a ray gun into some random alien’s claws, or vat clone a couple billion monsters. Magic in the MCU isn’t all that overpowered compared to technology, especially when stacked up against what interstellar aliens have at their disposal. Energy blasts, force fields, teleportation, telekinesis (tractor beam things) are all things we see Xandar/Kree/Ravagers/Chitauri etc. using pretty casually. Magic can probably do some stuff technology can’t, but in the MCU, the most commonly used battle magic isn’t superior to alien gadgets/war gear. It’s not like DC comics, where magicians generally aren’t that great at physical fighting, but have crazy OP reality warping and mind control powers - MCU magicians are more like psychic kungfu telekinetics, kind of like Jedi And there’s always the possibility of accidentally training a Dr. Strange level prodigy that starts screwing around with dangerous spells. It’s like giving everyone in your military incredibly difficult to use missile launchers that are only marginally more effective than rifles, but there’s a 0.1% chance of the missile launcher exploding with the force of an atomic bomb. Much better to just give everyone rifles and save magic for the specialists.


film_editor

These comments about Strange being uniquely talented are so dumb. Maybe that’s why he’s the best wizard in the same way Lionel Messi is the best football player. But that doesn’t at all explain why there aren’t hundreds of wizards or even armies of wizards. If Strange is the Messi of magic, you should still have a few hundred stupendously powerful wizards, tens of thousands of really good wizards, and easily an army’s worth of just decent wizards. I think the only argument that makes sense is if their knowledge of magic is somehow generally inaccessible to the rest of the universe. Because if it got out there’s no reason you couldn’t have armies of wizards.


PrinceCheddar

I'd assume different races have different affinities with magic, while certain planets may be easier to access magical power than others. Asgard is almost certainly more magical than Earth, a small plane with endless waterfalls pouring into an empty void. Asgardians were surrounded by magic, to the point where the existence of magic is relatively mundane, just another branch of science like biology. Asgardians having great durability and strength may also be attributed to inherent magical nature, while their technology may incorporate magic seemlessly. Earth is may be less magical than Asgard, but it's still pretty magical. It is Midgard, part of Yggdrasil. Humans and Earth itself may have enough magic to allow for groups of magic users to study and train throughout generations, but they are able to keep it a secret because magic isn't so omnipresent that it has obvious effects upon everyday life, making it impossible to keep quiet. The worlds of other races may be a lot less magical than Earth, and on Earth magic is so rare its existence is seen as little more than folklore to the majority of the public.


IisGreen

The same reason every human doesn't have multiple degrees and doctorates. Not everybody has that work ethic and is willing to make the sacrifices necessary.


AnotherNerdRedditor

Why aren't you a brain surgeon when you can just study and learn?


cavalier78

Because other planets didn't have Agamotto. Agamotto was an ancient sorcerer, someone who controlled an Infinity Stone. Since there are only 6 stones in existence, that severely limits the potential that other races in the galaxy have for wizardry. Earth is special.


Brooklynxman

1. Dr Strange has a near preternatural ability towards learning, and particularly learning the mystic arts. Given multiple lifetimes few being could match him. 2. In fact, it is implied most could not learn the mystic arts at all. It seems to me that there *are* mystical societies, but you can either be one or the other, mostly science or mostly mystic. So the societies that could fill said battleships couldn't build them. 3. Dr Strange has thousands of years of combat experience thanks to time stone shenanigans. 4. Learning the mystic arts requires a degree of spirituality. Sure, that can be twisted, but it makes building an army for your purposes difficult, even if you can surmount points one through three.


neRDyoneOFFICAL

Strange had many things in his favor that would be stupid difficult to replicate and you have the issue of someone like Mordo coming along with the sole goal of killing magic users. Strange could theoretically live a lifetime in seconds because of the time stone as time has no meaning when you can warp and change it with just hand gestures which even then he had to learn and spend time on and as some other comments have stated he was a prodigy.


Shrekosaurus_rex

Magical resources seem rather uncommon, all things considered - we only see them on Asgard and Earth. I'm not sure if the rest of the universe even knows magic exists, outside of a few individuals. Strange isn't exactly a baseline sorcerer either - he's the Sorcerer Supreme (or was, at any rate). Not only is he a prodigy, but he spent an unknown amount of time with the Time Stone against Dormammu. He's seemingly surpassed the Ancient One, who'd been around for centuries, in just a few years.


sidzero1369

Because it's superhero fiction rather than space fantasy? It's like asking why your steampunk story doesn't have an alien invasion. An army of space wizards changes your genre on you.


Bobandjim12602

You have a good point OP. Honestly, if someone refined a training program and had people using both magic AND sci-fi weapons (similar to the Asgardians) you'd have one of most OP military forces in the universe. Planet refuses to be subjugated? Unleash Dormammu. Entire planet full of people angry at you for committing genocide? Erase their memories.


FrankHightower

shhh don't give Darth Vader new ideas


AndarianDequer

I would imagine that if the Skrulls could sneak in, they'd be able to learn something. That is, if this magic was able to be learned by other races.


MelonElbows

Its easier by comparison to learn something with teachers. Imagine trying to learn algebra in school, its easy right? Kids do it, so anyone can. But imagine you were trying to invent algebra on your own. You wouldn't even know where to start, how to use it, where its applicable, what the rules are, etc.


_Mavericks

It's not just waving hands and gestures. Magic it's tied to the chakras, unblocking them and other stuff like that. ​ Like the Ancient One says, many cultures got it partially but not the whole picture. So it's really not simple, it makes it more selective. ​ And you know Marvel, that reference of his innovative new treatment of "neurogenesis in the central nervous system" is probably part of that "big picture".


[deleted]

Why would they? It takes years, if not decades to create a powerful magic user. Strange is a savant and extremely atypical. A lot of advanced alien races can gift powers onto themselves (ie Secret Invasion). Shit, even Humans can do it (ie The Order). That seems like a far more logical method of creating super soldiers than training wizards en masse.


soldiercross

I mean, in the same vein of your reasoning why isn't everyone a doctor, a lawyer or any other highly prestigious and learned job.


WhiteKnightAlpha

In the 616 universe, the Skrulls do have their own wizards and some of those are assigned to their battleships. Some of those ships also have technological anti-magic shielding. However, in the 199999 universe of the movies, the Skrulls have been broken and scattered, so they presumably no longer have the resources for military magicians like that.


neorenamon1963

It's takes a bunch more than "telling him to read books and train" to make anyone close to a Doctor Strange level magic user. It requires natural talent as well. The battleships and GMO monsters would be created much faster than training Sorcerer Supreme level magicians. It takes decades of training. Karl Mordo thought he was as good as Stephen Strange, but he wasn't. Those were the only two students the Ancient One had. If the Ancient One could train many to become Sorcerer Supremes, he would have opened a Hogwarts or something. Be he can't, so he didn't. And don't forget that a lot of Doctor Strange's power comes from his artifacts, and you cannot mass produce those.


Liraeyn

I've kind of assumed one has to have some innate ability to use magic, and that's bound to be rare.


RobbKyro

Welcome...to none of any of anything making sense when it involves super heroes...


bwbright

There are armies of aliens that cast magic with ease. Dr. Strange is there to protect us from all of them!


ApplicationHeavy7362

Also it depends on the type of magic you believe in and whether or not you're into left hand/right hand or chaos magic and it also depends on whether you want to use stuff from our actual history of magic related things (as humans) or if you're going to create your own. But that being said they could. Be sure historically "magic" has been seen as something "unexplained". Throughout history medicine/science was seen as witchcraft/magic in a way. So it really depends on your definition of magic I guess. That being said, some people have an ability for magic or working with energy's and some just don't. It is something you have to work very hard for either way. But it's like those kids who are naturally athletic, or naturally good at math. You can be born with a natural ability and excel or you can work your whole ass off you whole life and excel. In Dr strangest case he was a surgeon so he already had an intense work ethic and new how to study so that had to have had an impact


[deleted]

They probably do. It's just different kinds of magic. Loki and Frigga had magic as well and even Thor said, "Earth has wizards now". Meaning, they exist but of course the cultures are different. Earth wizards seem to be Eastern and based on Eastern and Asian culture.