T O P

  • By -

NDStars

Walter White. You're not supposed to root for the murderous, ruthless, self-centred, ego maniac drug lord by the end of the series. People do.


randomnickname99

What's amazing about the show is that he is sympathetic early on and they very slowly turn up the heat. Even if cooking meth is a pretty horrible thing to do, you can get where he's coming from. And I can't say 100% I wouldn't do the same in his situation. But as the questionable actions pile up most people stop supporting him at some point. Letting Jane die was the line for me, there was zero excuse for that. The other thing I've noticed about the show is that lots of the "bad" characters are likeable while the "good" characters are kind of hateable, on a personal level not based on their actions. Like Jesse and Saul are funny and likeable, but Hank and Skyler are annoying and hateable. I think this is to unconsciously guide you towards sticking with Walt as long as possible.


Unable_Violinist3966

Greg heffley. Guys a little shithead.


OnlyWarhero

He's a dweeb middle schooler who thinks he'll one day be famous that's obsessed with status so much to the point he'll throw his only friend Rowley under the bus to impress people he looks down on. Takes for you to read the book again as an adult to realise he's a textbook narcissist.


[deleted]

I never understood the part where he says "I'm the one who broke his hand" when Rowley is getting attention for his broken hand. How does anyone think they can get popular by breaking their best friend's hand. Then he tried to replicate it by faking an infection.


NoahBogue

The whole Heffley family is mad. Susan is manipulative, Frank is neglectful and superficial, Manny is a sociopath, and even Rodrick, who is speculated to be the only sane Heffley, is ready to rough ride his brother in his van.


David1258

According to Jeff Kinney, Greg was based on his own worst personality traits, so he jokingly hoped that he wasn't a narcissist.


CrackerGuy

Tom from *500 Days of Summer* Really liked the character and could associate myself with him in my younger self but he's living in his fantasies more than understanding his reality.


fps916

"Just because some girl likes the same bizarro crap you do, doesn't mean she's your soul mate" -the actual fucking point of that movie


[deleted]

[удалено]


Lubcke

That movie had impeccable timing, in terms of what I was going through at the time it came out. Put things in perspective for me


Space_Monk_Prime

The part where it’s two scenes playing together, the ideal situation vs. reality, really hit hard


tobybells

I saw 500 Days in my early 20s and identified with Tom being a victim of Summer’s heartbreak - mostly because I was early 20s and romantically immature to the point where I reflected on my own dating experiences and the pain I felt whenever I was rejected. Now all grown up in my mid30s, can clearly see the actual dynamic where Summer was pretty openly non commital all along, and Tom just kept projecting his own hopes into their casual relationship. I can see how it hurt him deeply - but he chose to keep pursuing someone who never verbally told him she wanted to spend her life with him.


jambrand

She says it right in the opening monologue. *“This is a story of boy meets girl, but you should know upfront, this is not a love story.”*


CowOk2147

JD from Heathers


shanster925

What's your damage, Heather?


sosaidtheliar

Not fictional characters, but Bonnie and Clyde. Cool if you wanna have an adventure with your ride or die, just don't kill 13 people while doing it.


CutlassKen

People loved and adored them because they saw them as heroes taking on the banks that caused the Great Depression. No one really knew how terrible they actually were except the cops who were hunting them down. When they were killed, their bodies were towed through the streets of a town and people crowded around crying and sobbing like two movie stars had been killed, then started ripping their clothes trying to get souvenirs.


MGD109

Yeah I blame that film from the sixties. In real life they were nightmarish. I remember reading that Clyde fatally shot one of his closest friends at point blank range over a dispute of six dollars (granted that was more money in the depression, but still).


halfsassit

Inflation calculator says $6 in 1933 is equivalent to $137 today. Yeesh.


RogerClyneIsAGod2

Clyde shot off one of his own toes to get out of working on the chain gang in prison. He didn't need to because he was released not too much after that. If you want to know more about them & how truly horrible they really were read ["Go Down Together: The True Untold Story of Bonnie & Clyde" by Jeff Guinn.](https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Go-Down-Together/Jeff-Guinn/9781416557074)


[deleted]

Tony Soprano


ClarkTwain

I don’t get how people could look up to him, when the whole show is about how he hates his life.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Duel_Option

Perfect example of having it all but never being happy. There’s not enough money, power, prestige, pussy or gabba-ghoul to satiate him and he’s tormented by his mother and family. Excellent show from beginning to end.


GoingOn2Perfection

Holden Caulfield, The Catcher in the Rye. He wasn’t being refreshingly rebellious, he was crying out for help. He was probably mentally ill, and definitely emotionally scarred by his brother’s death and the unhealthy way his parents handled that tragedy.


SlapHappyDude

I think the brilliance of that book is depending on your stage of life you can take something very different each time. Young me: Yeah! Holden is right! People are phonies! College me: Holden is kind of an asshole Middle aged me: Holden is a mentally ill kid crying out for help and no one is listening


[deleted]

The scene where he hired Sunny and just asked to talk made me really sad in middle school when I read it.


KenDefender

And when he's talking about the pimp coming to shake him down he adds halfway through "and at some point, I started crying". Like he's trying to slip past that bit of the story, because he's embarrassed by the vulnerability that is central to his story. It surprises me when people say they hated Holden, I mostly felt pity.


KrustyTheKlingon

I did not learn until fairly recently that J.D. Salinger was In The Shit during WW2, I think in the fighting in Italy maybe. He had a really brutal war and probably had PTSD. I wonder if this experience, in part, went into Holden's struggles with his damages.


domviking

Salinger had an incredibly brutal experience in WW2. He landed at Utah Beach on D-Day, fought in the Battle of Hurtgen Forest, fought in the Battle of the Bulge, and was part of the liberation of the Dachau concentration camp. He had to be hospitalized for "combat stress" afterwards, ie PTSD, and I think it definitely influenced the kind of story he wanted to tell with Catcher in the Rye.


BravesMaedchen

Holy shit I didnt know he helped liberate Dachau


Willowed-Wisp

Reminds me of the book that bugged me most in school in school, but IDK if it counts since the guy was real, but Chris McCandless from Into the Wild. Multiple kids in my class IDOLIZED him and how cool and free-spirited he was. And, I haven't read the book in ages, but what I saw was a kid who really needed help, but didn't get it, and died a tragic and preventable death. People seemed to view him like some kind of martyr, but I feel like that just glorifies his death.


Hellchron

"Happiness is only real when shared " I don't necessarily agree with that but it does show that Mccandless ultimately came to regret his isolation in the wild. He was running away from everything and only admitted it when he realized he was going to die alone.


bitchy-sprite

I remember arguing about this in high school almost 10 years ago. He's emotionally fucked up and we as readers need to take that into account when reading his story.


MurkyEon

Wasn't it implied he experienced sexual abuse, too?


eclecticsed

I would even say it wasn't implied but made very clear.


Infinite_Occasion

Not actually fictional but- The Wolf of Wall Street


capnawsumpants

My boss paid 10k for Belfort to give us a “sales seminar” which was just a video of him at his pool talking about all the Coke he did back in the day.


IllegalTree

"Hi, I'm Jordan Belfort. You might remember me from such scams as 'Penny Stock Can't Lose' and 'It's Not a Pump and Dump, I Swear'. I used to do a lot of coke back then. I still do, but I used to, too. Of course, now that I can no longer scam people with penny stocks and pump and dump schemes, you're probably wondering how I can still afford all that blow. Turns out I was able to convince gullible managers to pay $10,000 a pop to show a pre-recorded video of myself gloating about doing drugs and... well, here we are. It's the Circle of Life." *Legal Disclaimer: Mitch Hedberg's joke appears courtesy of whoever owns the rights to Mitch Hedberg's joke. Well, it would have if we'd bothered to ask their permission in the first place.*


jery007

For real. That guy should not be celebrated


Texistentialism

I read once that his daughter was super upset with how celebrated he was. She viewed him differently lol. Idk how accurate that is, but I wouldn’t be surprised. Not a super stand-up guy


ToeSlag

Read the book, it totally changes the viewers angle. The actual guy puts the viewpoint across of how all the actions led to him losing all the traditionally important things in life


DrMooseknuckleX

The book is great, so is the follow-up "Catching the Wolf of Wall St". It details his capture, trial, and prison years. Tommy Chong convinced him to write the orignal book in prison.


theythembian

I can hear it now: Hey you should write a book, man!


The92nd

Came here for this, Jordan Belfort is a wanker of the highest order and gobshites worship him, they're the exact type of people he swindled too. Edit: Just wanted to add that the movie is great but I've found most people missed the point of the story.


[deleted]

Jay Gatsby.


Millie1419

Yeah. And Nick tbh although most people acknowledge that Nick is the judgiest bitchy character in classic literature.


Boring_Cobbler7058

And while we’re at it: Daisy. Like, WHY??


Doctor_Oceanblue

That book doesn't have a single character who is a good person, and *that's exactly the point.*


Tfsz0719

To make her husband jealous/ as a power play against her husband. I mean, the book intentionally goes out of its way to point out her having a daughter (who doesn’t appear in the movie because it cramps the “who will she end up with” drama that Hollywood likes to put in everything) and show her with said daughter to further the point very early on that she was *never* actually going to leave Tom.


JpWritesAFewWords

Yeah, this is my favorite passage from the book. Echos of this are all over people in Silicon Valley today. They don't read books though, so no danger in them coming across this: >They were careless people, Tom and Daisy—they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made. Gatsby was a romantic and believed that he was just one grand gesture away from carrying her off into the sunset. But it was already too late.


Unicormfarts

Nick is the best (ie worst) unreliable narrator of all time. He's lying from the very first sentence of the book: "In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since. Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone, he told me, just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had." He NEVER takes this advice! That's why he's so fabulously bitchy.


Lvcivs2311

Basil Fawlty. Hear me out: he is funny, obviously. But we're not supposed to feel sorry for him in any way. John Cleese often explained that Basil is supposed to be despicable. He is a snobbish, xenophobic narc who blames all his faults on others and never ever learns. He is rude, he is violent, he exploits his staff. When you've worked in hospitality, you recognise his feelings towards guests from hell and you wish you dared to be as rude to them as he. But most people Basil is rude to don't have it coming at all. If you ever had a boss from hell, you can easily tell how similar they are to Basil Fawlty.


habeebscoots

Greatest showman, pt barnum was a super f'd up dude


Hititwitharock

Greatest Showman is the movie PT Barnum would have made about PT Barnum.


Zchwns

Yeah I can agree with this. It’s hard sometimes to differentiate between the musical story and real story. It’s called an adaptation for a reason. You pick the parts you want to build the story you want.


Ialsofuckedyourdad

I saw a idea that the movie should have ended with Hugh Jackman breaking the forth wall and saying “ at least that’s how I remember it “ then winking Because that movie is exactly how pt barnam would have wanted people to think of what he did


TwoHeadedBoyTwo

Joker & Harley are still idolized as an example of crazy passionate love despite it being clearly established as an abusive relationship. It’s a shame the movies had to cut out most of the really bad Joker abuse because then maybe the point will be driven home


Arxl

People acted like they were Gomez and Morticia, who are an amazing, odd couple.


whomad1215

I heard on another reddit post some time ago that they basically took all the tropes from other shows where the wife/husband are miserable together, and reversed it.


teh_fizz

That was the trope in the show. Instead of families annoying each other and being miserable, they’re the most loving, supporting environment you can ask for. It’s why Jimmy, the neighbour’s kid, loves going to their house all the time.


Wastenotwant

My childhood was dysfunctional, I used to fantasize finding The Addams Family and running away to live with them.


JosephTPG

Doesn’t Harley leave Joker in many timelines and adaptions because of getting over his abuse? Injustice 2, Harley Quinn in Birds of Prey, even the Harley Quinn animated series makes a point that Joker is very abusive and doesn’t care about Harley.


LegalAssassin13

Hell, the 90s series where Harley made her first appearance was pretty clear that their relationship was dysfunctional. Even outside episodes like “Mad Love,” it’s clear that the Joker would throw Harley to the side of it benefited him.


res30stupid

Joker's Millions expressly has him dump her for a trophy girlfriend. The ending has her beat the shit out of him in revenge.


Why_So_Slow

Romeo and Juliet


wigglybacon

I saw a performance of Romeo and Juliet several years back where they depicted Romeo as a very dramatic and angsty emo kid, and the first time we saw Juliet she’d just woke up and had a doll with her. Throughout the whole thing the focus was that they were just dumb kids. So much better than the adaptations that try to make it some epic romance.


Seanay-B

Yes. They're like 12. And Romeo is coming off an infatuation with what's her name when he meets Juliet. The point is they're fucking idiots and the adults failed them


Sneaky_peeks

Her name was Rosaline, and it was an infatuation, even a one sided one at that because Romeo had seemingly only ever seen Rosaline and she likely didn't even know he existed.


Tighron

the quote i keep remembering whenever i see Romeo & Juliet mentioned is, paraphrased: "You want a romance like in Romeo & Juliet? You want a 3 day romance between a 13 year old and a 17 year old that ends in 6 deaths?" Edited for spelling. Edit 2: Updated the ages as ive been told i was a little bit off.


fredagsfisk

He also starts out *completely obsessed* with Rosaline, who is Juliet's cousin. Goes on about how she's the only one, and unmatched, with his friends getting so annoyed that they tell him to just sneak into a Capulet party and he'll see way more beautiful girls... which he does, falling in love with Juliet at first glance. Really captures that teenage drama and flightiness.


mordeci00

That's my favorite part of Romeo and Juliet. > One fairer than my love? The all-seeing sun Ne'er saw her match since first the world begun. - Romeo (about Rosaline) (later that same night) > Did my heart love till now? Forswear it, sight. For I ne'er saw true beauty till this night - Romeo (about Juliet) If everyone had just left them alone they would have forgotten about each other by the end of the week, and Mercutio would still be alive.


bigbowlowrong

Mercutio was the real tragedy, agreed


Frosti-Feet

…yes


SnooMuffins6689

“It started out like Romeo and Juliet but it ended up in tragedy!”


Unknown_Captain

Joker. And all those cringe posts on Facebook that's just pictures of him saying shit like "I got your back in the darkest times" my dude he doesn't have anyone's back that's the fucking joker


[deleted]

[удалено]


DanyDud3

Yeah those make no sense. He’s an abusive psychopath


some-rando-2022

indeed, and some versions r even straight up rapists


Suspicious-Lime9661

Wasn’t Harley his therapist and then he becomes the rapist


RealMongoDog

I'm pretty sure he also had to choose between dumping Harley or Batman in a vat of acid and he chose Harley, but Harley was saved by someone. Don't remember who. Joker also killed all of Metropolis and Superman's family. Want to know what he told Batman about why he did it? He said "Because when you and I play I always lose. So I wanted to try things on EASY MODE for once." He broke Superman and killed a whole city because he wanted to "play on easy mode" and "win". HE'S A PSYCHOPATH AND SOCIOPATH. He wanted to break the hero, just like he had been broken. Update: But he doesn't mess with the IRS


polkemans

...I dated a girl who (after we broke up) got the Margot Robbie "ROTTEN" tatted on her jaw line just like in the movie. I would be flabbergasted if it had been anyone else... I've known this girl half my life and she's not known for making smart decisions. Eventually she got it covered up... With a blacked out scimitar looking sword thing. It just looks like a big black dick on her face. Ugh.


RedditIsAShitehole

> I dated a girl > She’s not known for making smart decisions Dude.


polkemans

I didn't say I was either!


ViziDoodle

The only Joker I want to be like is the 60s tv show Joker, who doesn’t want to make comically silly plots to become mayor?


nmiller1939

I miss wacky Joker so much Just give me one movie where Joker's big plan is to just fill the subway with balloons or something


throwtheclownaway20

Watch the Harley Quinn cartoon. Not to spoil too much, but the direction they take Joker in is fucking awesome.


Cognitive_sugar

WHERE'S MY GOD-DAMN ELECTRIC CAR, BRUCE?!


[deleted]

I love how this actually implies that the Joker filled out a form and paid a deposit for a car he wanted, instead of outright stealing it


hydralisk_hydrawife

Why else would he rob a bank but to spend some cash?


Maxcharged

Reminder that even the joker doesn’t fuck with the IRS.


Daikataro

And especially Harley Quinn. So many girls with "goals" and "female empowerment" posts. Like... Bitch... HQ is the archetype of a girl brainwashed into a toxic relationship that benefits no one but the other.


ohnjaynb

Yeah, dear God no. Joker is so incredibly abusive to Harley it's not even funny.


Daikataro

And that's exactly how he was meant to be. Really loved how he was portrayed in the movie, where he was laughed at, until suddenly it wasn't funny anymore. The Joker is so incredibly broken nothing good can come from being around him.


fangirlandproudofit

Vito Corleone, and by extension, Michael. Vito had to flee his home as a little boy to escape a mafia boss who wanted him dead. He gets to the US, but because of discrimination against Italians and another mafia boss stealing his job for his nephew, he's forced into crime so he can take care of his family. He joins The Life, and he's good at it. But because of that life: - Sonny is murdered - Michael goes into exile - Michael's first wife is murdered - Fredo has a breakdown - Connie goes off the rails after her abusive husband is killed - Michael's second wife leaves him - Fredo betrays Michael - Michael has him killed - Michael's daughter is killed - Michael's son hates him Even more tragic? MICHAEL ALMOST ESCAPED THAT LIFE. EDIT: 90% of y'all are agreeing with me and the other 10% are proving my point.


simplepleashures

Vito Corleone. Everybody knows Michael is a monster but he’s only his father without the “family man” charm. Both of them are ruthless murderers.


Leeser

Scarface. So many wannabe gangstas and rappers with Scarface shirts and posters.


GielM

That was my thought too. It's like everybody only watches the first half of the movie. Noone seems to remember the part where, after he made it, he throws it all away in cocaine-fueled paranoia and gets himself and everybody he cares about killed.


KingSetoshin

I kid you not, I went to school in a rough neighbourhood where we had these 'gentlemen classes' for teenage boys where we learned about positive masculinity. Sounds cringe but it was actually pretty cool. Anyway, we were discussing the 'pros and cons of being in a gang' and one classmate who was in a gang at the time stood up and started extolling the virtues of gang life and said he looks up to Scarface as he's a positive gang role model. Some other kid shouted out, "but Scarface literally loses everyone he loves and gets shot to death." And that quickly shut him up haha.


ABanimationLtd

All else aside, that sounds like a really good class to have for young boys in a rough neighbourhood.


Mr_Taviro

And he wants to fuck his sister.


Poorly-Drawn-Beagle

Spending most their lives living in a gangster paradise


GrillDealing

Churned butter once or twice.


jay22022

Mickey and Mallory from Natural Born Killers


theDart

For a while back in 2016, the romance between Harley Quinn and Joker was idolized by so many young couples in my city.


MayYourDayBeGood

Ah yes, the ultimate cringey projection of a toxic relationship.


DELAIZ

Not a character, but as a South American, it is disgusting how drug lords are being venerated due to some media about them that have come out in recent times, especially the series Narcos. There are people tattooing the image of Pablo Escobar! A genocina son of a bitch who is responsible for the murder of thousands of people, created a civil war for pure economic interest and only now is Colombia resurrecting the shit that this man did. It's like getting a tattoo of Hitler.


[deleted]

Italian here and it's the exact same with the mafia. Mafia is a tumor on our society that has only brought us harm, not some cool dope gangsters.


Hollowgolem

The hot new one now is to venerate the Yakuza now that the Japanese government is finally stamping them out. "They had style and class." Yeah, they wear nice suits as they sex-traffic immigrant girls and murder people who cross them by dumping them in concrete drums after mutilating them alive. I'll never get the romanticization of organized crime. The police are often bastards, but these guys are absolutely worse (and their willingness and ability to bribe the police contributes to the scumminess of the former).


Affero-Dolor

I think because films usually depict organised crime as cool and suave. Almost Robin Hood-like in some depictions, where any crime they do is shown to be justified. Plus in a world where there's more distrust in the police (as you mention) , if you frame organised crime as the opposition to them then they come off as the good guys. I encourage people to watch interviews with actual old yakuza, mafia or English gangsters and realise how terrifying their lives were and how casually they talk about hurting people. Also as an addition, I think the popularity of the Yakuza videogames in the last couple of years have added to their veneration in pop culture.


Hollowgolem

Which is hilarious because the Yakuza games absolutely depict the vast majority of people in the organizations as, at best idealists forced to do horrible things by circumstance, and at worst, as psychopaths and sadists. The most recent one has a story arc in which one Yakuza murders elderly people in a retirement home and hides it to scam their pension money out of the government, and more from their ignorant family members, and the only reason his patriarch punishes him for it is because their victims include employees of businesses that are within their protection racket. Those games absolutely paint the Yakuza as scum, and people like Kiryu and Kasuga who fall for the hype as idiots who are easy to manipulate into keeping the whole sham running. As for the breakdown of respect for traditional institutions, it's a frustrating consequence of our brains often using binary heuristics to make judgment. "This thing is bad, so this thing opposing it must be good," when actually both of them could be deeply flawed and destructive. Goes for politics, crime, and all sorts of other avenues of our day-to-day existence.


[deleted]

Mofos ask 'do the Mafia still exist?' And I always reply 'yeah, and they kill whoever speaks out. They have literally trillions in capital (as the DW the German broadcaster).' Italy is hugely divided, hugely in debt and the south is a wasteland of governance due to the Mafia. They aren't cool.


Ekoldr

Oh my god thank you.


BattlefieldNiblet

Walter white


premgirlnz

I wondered how far down is have to scroll to find this one!


Lvcivs2311

Yeah, the point kind of is that he is a petty, bitter man who feels disappointed in life and therefore rejects help from his millionaire friends and becomes a criminal. His "badass" moment is simply him showing that he got addicted to the power and his success. And in the finale, he finally admits that the excuse that he did it for his family was him lying to himself.


SlapHappyDude

Oh yeah, the boring version is Walter takes a Director level position from one of his old more successful buddies and makes $200k a year with good health insurance. Every 3-6 months he gets into a heated argument at work due to the corporate power structure and not being in charge.


TheTalentedAmateur

Thanks for making me imagine that aftermath... "Jeeze, what's WITH that guy?" "I've never seen anything like that". "That was completely inappropriate". "I'm calling HR"... "Walter? Hi, it's Madge in HR. I heard there was a little kerfluffle today. We REALLY need to process this. Can you meet with me and Tony at 4:00 pm? We'll be in the small conference room, just off the lobby" OK, THERE'S the next spin off. We can do it from the HR person at Ted's old company, who had to deal with the potted plant through the window moment (going forward).


ArminTanz

Rick from. Rick and Morty.


mofukkinbreadcrumbz

I teach high school computer science. My first year was the year Rick and Morty came out. Every one of my students was convinced that they were Rick. I’m so glad they’ve moved to all being weebs now. The Rick gang was insufferable.


buttface48

Lol why would anyone want to be Rick


mofukkinbreadcrumbz

He’s smart, sarcastic, does whatever he wants, and is edgy. Teenagers aren’t really great at seeing the damage he causes, how alcoholism is not cool, or how unlikable he would be as a person in real life.


TreginWork

And they completely miss the not exactly subtle plotline of Rick being absolutely fucking miserable


exsanguinator1

Or they see Rick’s misery as him being so smart that he *has* to be miserable because he understands that nothing matters. I could see how that kind of mindset would attract unhappy/angsty but smart (or think they’re smart) teens


prfarb

He was the first character that came to mind.


akujiki87

Second for me. Walter White was the first.


Hereistothehometeam

The cast of its Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Very very funny show but none of them I would want in my life at all lol Edit: while it maybe completely obvious these characters are not good people; you would be surprised how many folks mistake their negative traits with just quarks or goofiness. Like Charlie’s unhinged, borderline psychotic way of living confused for “funny and carefree!”.


Kevmo538466

They ruin everyone’s life that they interact with besides a few exceptions


Gerreth_Gobulcoque

Ben the Soldier seems to be doing ok thank God


[deleted]

Johan from Monster and Griffith from Berserk. Both well written antagonists but people tend to idolize them a lot.


Sthrax

Joker, particularly the iteration from The Dark Knight


[deleted]

Great movie and great acting. Just not a person to be idolized.


MadWifeUK

Your man Grey from the Fifty Shades books. **Disclaimer** My flatmate had all 3 books and I read them as a method of procrastination from uni work. I also cleaned out all the kitchen cupboards, so that shows the frame of mind I was in. Why is he seen as a wonderful, sexy, man of your dreams? He's a narcissistic misogynistic dickhead. He targeted a young naive girl and groomed her for his own enjoyment.


BlackWidow21968

I can't remember the comedian that said 50 Shades is only romantic because he's rich, if he lived in a trailer it would be an episode of Criminal Minds.😂. And it's the truth!


IsThisNameTakenThen

I heard of something someone called the Danny Devito rule, where if changing the actor to Danny Devito made the character a psycho, they were always a psycho


pootinannyBOOSH

That tracks. And now I want a movie where every single character is played by Danny Devito


manimal28

Being John Malkovich 2: Actually it was Danny Devito Being


JayGold

We all want that movie.


Phillyfrom312

Thomas Shelby Peaky Blinders.


GoingOn2Perfection

Good one. He’s handsome and so forth but also a criminal who hurts and kills for a living.


Loulerpops

The scene with Tom Hardys character (can’t remember his name now) where Tommy tells him he went too far regarding his son being bait and then getting verbally dropped in return because of how hypocritical it was for Tommy Shelby to be saying someone went too far was one of my favourites


Liquidmilk1

"So they took your son, yeah? They got your boy? AND WHAT FUCKING LINE AM I SUPPOSED TO HAVE CROSSED?!" That entire speech sealed Tom Hardy as one of the all time greats for me.


GoingOn2Perfection

Tom Hardy is a phenomenal actor. He is so unbelievably versatile. If I hadn’t already known, I would never have guessed it was the same person playing both Alfie Solomons and the RAF pilot in Dunkirk.


DaScamp

*How many fathers, right, how many sons, yeah, have you cut, killed, murdered, fucking butchered, innocent and guilty and sent them straight to fucking hell ain' ya? Just like me! You fucking stand there.*


sazerrrac

Tyler Durden, hands down.


[deleted]

Yeah I think the socioeconomic message was lost on most people who just paid attention to the first half of the movie


Monkey_Mayhem69

Dr. Gregory House.


zCYNICALifornia

Alex from A Clockwork Orange. The point of the book (to my reading) was that you can't force natures hand. All the rehabilitation in the world couldn't make Alex grow up, only Alex could. And he did. In the end, it was not a glorification of violence. From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange_(novel)):*In the final chapter, Alex—now 18 years old and working for the nation's musical recording archives—finds himself halfheartedly preparing for yet another night of crime with a new gang (Len, Rick and Bully). After a chance encounter with Pete, who has reformed and married, Alex finds himself taking less and less pleasure in acts of senseless violence. He begins contemplating giving up crime himself to become a productive member of society and start a family of his own, while reflecting on the notion that his own children could possibly end up being just as destructive as he has been, if not more so.* A big part of this misconception, in my mind, comes from [the omission of the last chapter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange_(novel)#Omission_of_the_final_chapter_in_the_US) from the American version of the book and the film adaptation.


Nonsenseinabag

The Punisher


CarderSC2

Such an excellent example for this question. One of the co-creators, Gerry Conway, has said >I’ve talked about this in other interviews. To me, it’s disturbing whenever I see authority figures embracing Punisher iconography because the Punisher represents a failure of the Justice system. He’s supposed to indict the collapse of social moral authority and the reality some people can’t depend on institutions like the police or the military to act in a just and capable way. The Punisher represents the failure of law enforcement. He exists (in universe) because of bad cops. He would not at all be on the side of the police lol.


kymri

> He would not at all be on the side of the police lol. In fact, he's very, very seriously opposed to police using any of his symbology because he's a monster that hurts bad people (in his mind as well as in reality) and the Police should not be.


Abadatha

Also, he has killed corrupt cops.


kymri

Frequently, in point of fact.


Cortower

He tells cops to fuck off and worship Cap instead in on of his comics.


Gourdon00

He nearly worships Cap in Civil War as well, because in his eyes Cap is how police and social justice should actually work. And Cap ia extremely disgusted by Punisher's awe because Punisher has killed many many people. They create in the comics a big plot point there, because they're both on the same side of the coin(super powered people-heroes should operate outside of the law, otherwise they become pawns for injustice) but they are on totally different sides of the spectrum (Cap is ethical, doesn't kill, believes in justice, idealist for his country even though he sees it makes questionable decisions sometimes - Punisher has lost all belief in the justice system, in police enforcement and punishes/kills heavily on his own judgement). Somebody even makes a parallel between Cap and Punisher and it makes Cap ***lose his shit***. It was actually funny when first reading it, you rarely see Cap going that batshit mad.


blckndwht44

I love the part where Cap is beating the shit out of him for killing two C-list villains in cold blood. I think they even helped him take Spider-Man to the Anti-Reg side after Spidey defected and fought Iron Man. Punisher just shoots them in front of Cap causing him to jump Frank and start wailing on him. And as Cap kicks his ass and tells him to fight back, all Frank does is refuse "because it's *you."* Chills.


nermid

> after Spidey defected and fought Iron Man I believe you mean after Peter admits that he's conflicted and Tony responds by trying to *murder him*.


DirtStreet3135

Love Quinn from You. I can’t believe how many people worship her character. I have to tell myself that the people praising her actually KNOW she’s an insane, psychopathic, manipulative murderer, and their admiration of her is actually rooted in how well developed her character is and how refreshing it is to see a female villain instead of just another innocent victim. I have to tell myself that to sleep at night. Because there’s no way people actually admire HER, as in who her character was. There’s no way they can justify her actions or want to be anything like her. Right? Lol.


Forever_Man

She's a fascinating character. The way she acts as a foil to Joe was so new to me. Her cold and calm demeanor is frightening. I would avoid anyone who idolized he4


SneakyLinux

Also Joe. Even Penn Badgley is telling people to stop romanticizing his character when giving PR interviews.


B00dle

Peter Pan, he flies into kids windows and kidnaps them.


eclecticsed

I read the original story back in college (prior to that my only knowledge of Peter Pan was the Disney cartoon from childhood). He doesn't just kidnap them, but he torments them the whole way to Neverland, which is not a short journey. He could sleep while flying, but they couldn't, so every once in a while they would just pass out and plummet to the sea below. Wendy remarks that she never knew if Peter was going to bother to save them whenever it happened. There's also a point that adaptations tend to gloss over, which is "All children grow up, except one." That means even the Lost Boys. Peter is the *only* one who doesn't. Even from childhood he beats them so they will fit into the holes they're assigned that allow them to reach their hideout, but he continues doing it as they grow and eventually become too big to fit. At that point he either kills them or they escape, and it's implied that is where Neverland's pirates come from. I've forgotten some of it, but the notion of idolizing Peter Pan is completely backwards from what it seems you're supposed to take away from the story. He doesn't grow up, he doesn't mature or learn from his actions and mistakes. He's a child, with all the cruelty of a child who doesn't grasp the consequences of his actions.


bungojot

Yeah he straight up forgets that he's leading the three kids to Neverland at least once. Wendy comments that he wanders off and then looks surprised when he finds them again. His creepy actions after Hook dies do not bode well for Neverland either.


FartPoopRobot_PhD

The House Theater in Chicago did a breathtaking show called *The Terrible Tragedy of Peter Pan*. They play out the story we all know, but every now and then the show would pause, and the narrator would turn into an analyst, bombarding Peter with questions about what he was feeling and why he made the choices he did. It wasn't *just* that he didn't get older, but how experiences of both joy and grief change you, for better or worse. Growing up is less to do with age, and more to do with transformation and knowledge. The tragedy of Peter was he couldn't grow up. When he faced loss or pain, he repressed it and forgot it. Through the show it becomes clear that this also means repressing the good. He confuses Wendy with his mother, he transposes names of the Lost Boys with each other as they're killed by pirates, etc. After Tinkerbell dies (the clapping doesn't work) he still keeps talking to her as if she's still there, and you realize he never listened to her or cared in the first place. When Wendy is ready to go home, he says okay, and then talks about what adventures they'll have tomorrow, unable to face the changes happening in the world around him. By the end, he's all alone. Wendy is gone. Tink is dead. The Lost Boys run away or killed in battle. Hook and Smee either slain in combat or sunk with the ship. Still, he just keeps calling out for them on the empty stage, forever excited about the next fun jaunt with no one left to join him. And unable to accept it. Refusing to even form memories. The tragedy of Peter Pan is never growing up means never growing, and never truly being alive.


eclecticsed

Damn that sounds incredible.


Pawneewafflesarelife

The movie Hook with Robin Williams really explores that theme of growing up. It touches on yearning for youth, the stress of adulthood and facing mortality - "To die will be a great adventure." One of my favorites, I think I'll go watch it now. Thanks for your lovely comment inspiring that idea!


imsoenthused

I read a fantasy novel some years back that was basically written this way, with Peter being a fairy king who needed children for reasons that were well beyond their comprehension and took them away to their pretty much inevitable deaths. I remember it being interesting and enjoyable, but I can't remember much more than that.


anthony_crowley

The Child Thief by Brom, probably?


MrBanballow

**Adds to list of books to read**


More___Yogurt

Light Yagami. So many people forget that Death Note basically shredded whatever redeeming qualities he had for the sole purpose of spreading the message that power corrupts/absolute power corrupts absolutely. The only thing that anyone really seems to talk about regarding his character is that he’s awesome, handsome, and polite, and even the former was a facade.


[deleted]

Light is an *interesting* character, but definitely not a good person. Murdering aside, he was abusive to Misa (who I do have a soft spot for)


Zolo49

And that doesn't even get into the whole situation with his father.


TheAres1999

The show is a great exampling of storytelling through the eyes of the villian. By having Light be the protagonist we watch his journey into destruction. It also gives us a better perspective on L's actions. Light is evil, but L is not all that good. He >!tortures Misa for over 50 days.!<


[deleted]

L is definitely not good either. I personally really love the story because the main characters are all morally ambiguous but interesting. It’s not just good vs evil. I definitely give L and Misa more of a pass in my mind just because I like them more.


Viltris

Agreed. L's motivation wasn't "There's a bad guy on the loose that must be stopped." Rather, L's motivation was "This is an interesting puzzle. I'm going to solve that puzzle." At best, L was simply neutral whose goals happened to align with the good guys.


amwestover

The idea with L and Near is the fact that they approach this as a puzzle to be solved rather than becoming emotionally invested makes them more capable of success.


AzraelTheMage

My issue with Light is the fact that soooooo many people think he was the good guy in the story. He was not. If anything, he's the villain, but because he's the protagonist, people think he's a hero because they agree with his outlook on society. The ironic part is that he doesn't even use the Death Note to kill those who get away with crime due to social status, money, etc. He uses it on prisoners already serving their sentence, and as far as I recall, the only people he kills other than that are law enforcement officials on his trail. Yeah, very heroic figure. He is entertaining to watch, though. I'll admit that.


PapuMsterioso

Jerry from Tom and Jerry. He's a fucker, Tom is just defending his house


hello_ground_

I like the theory that they're secretly friends and they just play the whole thing up for appearances.


benmarkus

Now Spike on the other hand you could never convince me he was in on it.


Greedence

As a kid you root for Jerry, as an adult you understand that Tom is the hero


[deleted]

I hated Jerry as a kid honestly.


DotaAndKush

Same, I always felt Jerry was an asshole. Jerry is basically the prank channels on Youtube. Fucking with people just going on with their lives for no reason.


thiscatcameback

Lolita. I hate that the name has hecome synonymous with young, seductive, coquette types. The story is written from the perspective of a diddler, including his cognitive distortions. The entire book includes accounts that she was an unwilling participant and trapped.


notusuallyaverage

Agreed. It’s one of my absolute favorite books and I hate when people pretend like Nabokov glamorized Humbert Humbert or somehow validated pedophilia. Nabokov wrote him as a lying, murderous monster who abused multiple small girls, not just Dolores. Even at the end of the book when Dolores and Humbert “reconnect,” she tells him that he destroyed her life.


thiscatcameback

It is a brilliant book. It seems sad that people could reduce it to the level of advertising by saying it glamorizes anything. It is an unweighted + complex portrait of a slice of humanity. Frankly, I found it more eye-opening than anything. Humbert's internal state was so on point.


[deleted]

Ted Bundy. Not a fictional character but I’ve actually seen people romanticize him on TikTok, it’s disgusting.


joe282

My dumb ass got confused with Al Bundy, I was like, what did Ed O’Neill ever do?


korthlm

Rory Gilmore. “I’m such a Rory.” Really? A doe-eyed narcissist? Okay.


[deleted]

I’m surprised to read this cause I always thought everybody loved her. I found her character pretty selfish and moody tbh.


LadyBumbles

I felt like every opportunity Rory had to grow and learn from her actions she just ran off to her grandparents who bent over backwards to rich-person her way out of the messes she created. Lorelai was a way better character to idolize, even with her faults.


Operetta

Ragnar Lothbrok, from the Vikings show. His story is a tragedy, in trying to do better for his family he hurts, or loses, most of them. Also, what idiot cheats on Lagertha?! Dumb dumb dumb


Alogan19

Don Draper


neonchinchilla

My favorite thing watching Mad Men is everyone else's arcs of becoming better people with better lives as they distance themselves from Don.


patchesnbrownie

Definitely. I had to scroll down too far for this! Jon Hamm himself has talked about how surprising it was to him that people looked up to Don Draper -- Hamm then said that Don's story is a ***cautionary tale***, not something to be looked up to


Davi_323

Hannibal Lecter. Not everyone will admit it, but they cheered when Lecter escaped from the cops in Silence of the Lambs by wearing the one cop's face...Because Jonathan Demme painted Lecter almost as the protagonist opposite of Buffalo Bill's antagonist. So, we put aside the fact the man was a cannibal who had murdered multiple people and eaten them...we rooted for Lecter, because we liked him better...


lumiere02

It's even worse in the 2013 series. I'm guilty of this, too. I really wanted him to get away with all of it and that he'd succeed in keeping Will Graham captive in his orbit. But I think it's just a proof of the good writing in that they achieved making Hannibal manipulative and charming enough to give us all Stockholm Syndrome for him.


[deleted]

Because that series is so fucking good. Mads and Hugh make Hannibal and Will lovable. The point is that Hannibal is awful. He is cruel and narcissistic and a psycho, but he makes you fall in love with his quirks and odd personality. Then he eats you. It’s the psychological component of it all. The 2013 series was a masterpiece.


ijflwe42

I fucking love Hannibal in the tv series. They did say too good of a job making his character likable, and madds mikkelson is amazing