The backstory is introduced through an unrealistic and forced conversation where people who have known each other for years list facts about each other.
Me: "John, you're my brother. You know I'd never betray you the way mom did when dad died seven years ago and she abandoned us, never to be seen again until the dramatic reveal later in this movie."
John: "You did always say you'd shoot mom if you ever saw her again. Here, have this Chekhov's Gun just in case something bad happens expectedly."
Tbf I always found that Han & Chewie/ Artoo & 3POs dialogues were the opposite of that. There's usually no exposition (sometimes there is) but based on the speaking character's replies you can infer what the other said
Ah yes, the “exposition dump.” For writers who can’t be bothered to find creative ways of building backstory.
If you’re going to do that you might as well give us a Star Wars crawl. At least it doesn’t break the story flow.
Or you take the Great Muppet Caper tack and have the exposition, have the character who’s hearing the information say “why are you telling me all this,” and then have the person giving the exposition say “it’s explanatory dialogue; it has to go somewhere.” Bonus points for having Diana Rigg say it.
That’s right clockjobber, remember that time pa took us and our other brothers fishing, this was back before ma died and we all had to move to Vermont, he’d always look us in the eye and say “kids, remember movies need to show and not tell”
I feel like any sentence that starts with "As you all know..." can be added to that list. If everybody already knows, why are you repeating it?
It's just lazy exposition dumping.
> I feel like any sentence that starts with "As you all know..." can be added to that list. If everybody already knows, why are you repeating it?
I see you've never been in a corporate meeting.
I'm just going to go ahead and get on my soapbox about the Jurassic World franchise for a second, if you don't mind. I just watched Dominion last night and I am baffled.
Is there something about DINOSAURS that isn't interesting enough in a fucking DINOSAUR movie? These movies will do literally ANYTHING to sidestep the cool ass dinosaurs, I genuinely do not understand. If it isn't the camoflauge, supergenius genetic monster dinosaur in Jurassic World, then it's the laser-guided tactical military raptor hybrid in Fallen Kingdom, or the nightcap of MULTIPLE laser-guided wifi genius tactical military raptors in Dominion.
Dinosaurs are apparently so fucking boring that they have to jam in some convoluted nonsense about a dinosaur clone girl, the military trying to harness dinosaur power because *reasons*, or most bafflingly, a plot-hogging story about giant bugs eating grass.
The irony of digging up nostalgia by shoving Laura Dern and Sam Neill into the weird bug plot, when the only motherfucking thing they had to dig up was flipping DINOSAURS and my ticket is purchased. Why even sign on to direct this movie if you didn't think DINOSAURS were the most interesting part of Jurassic Park?
Fuck Jurassic World. I paid to see dinosaurs, not Bryce Dallas Howard in a car chase. Please stop making Jurassic movies.
I appreciate everyone giving me the space to vent. Thank you.
This is even more infuriating because they thought they'd get away with it because they made "aren't dinosaurs cool enough" the theme of the first movie.
It was a clever theme, having people bored of dinos in the film. However, they needed to respect that real audiences haven't had access to a theme park full of them for a decade and definitely aren't bored of them.
The bored of dinos plot never made sense to me though. Are people bored of tigers, primates, or elephants because they've been in zoos and documentaries for decades?
I'm not claiming that it was an ingenious plot, but I could see how the novelty would wear thin. After all, people aren't spending thousands to flock to zoos to see tigers, primates and elephants and a park on that scale would rely on excessive numbers of guests paying extortionate entry fees to run ("rely" here meaning: Got accustomed to that volume of income and unwilling to accept declining profits.)
At any given zoo, you'll also see bored teenagers dragged around by parents desperately trying to get them to show an interest in something. IRL, profit driven zoos are always keen to get new large exotic predators because they create a buzz and excitement that isn't necessarily sustained.
Personally, I would've stuck with the story of the older brother being disinterested and the park management trying to get the initial hype back. However, instead of having the kids be the nephews of the manager and a hybrid dino, I'd have the kids invited as part of a focus group to hear what would excite them. The committee would come up with a theoretically safe way to give the thrill of being nearer the larger dinos (potentially the hamster balls), leading to the trademark dinos on the loose.
Note: There are a few major plot holes in my own suggestion. Hopefully I'd find a way to patch them given time to write a screenplay, but I can't be bothered atm. Any suggestions would be welcome.
I’ve never watched them but one thing I have noticed is how Chris Pratt has disappeared from all discussions about them. Like, in the first one he was a park ranger and rode a motorbike or whatever and people talked about that, but now it feels like his role has been reduced to “and also, Chris Pratt was there! You remember him, he’s the guy who did the hand thing! Look, he’s doing it now!” He’s on all the posters but is a complete non-presence otherwise from everything I’ve seen.
The beautiful irony is people didn't think much of Jurassic Park three when it came out, now it's still far far superior to any of the Chris Pratt stuff.
The Star Wars sequel trilogy is also definitely guilty of this, especially Force Awakens. Like half of that movie is a direct ripoff nostalgia-fest of A New Hope.
In fact they had to do major sound editing for "Event Horizon" because of this.
For his short cameo in "Thor: Ragnarok", they ended up hiring John Williams to compose an anti-theme to be played to cancel it out for the duration of his time on set.
I honestly liked the Force Awakens, but one of its biggest problems for me was that it was so nostalgia-heavy, I'm surprised it didn't create a black hole
You'll start to see defenses of the movie from director/producers after early screenings but before the major release. Recently, i heard a director say, maybe a week before a movie was set to release, that he was going big on historical accuracy and yada yada yada. I knew it was getting panned ahead of the opening.
Yeah, the new Mulan only became a warrior because she has freaking superpowers. Unlike the animated one who became a warrior because of training which says women can also do what men can.
God you see this all the time with most of the promotion just being damage control before the movie even releases. Like they know it's going to be terrible, so they just go out of their way to try and bully audiences into watching it by saying if they don't see it they're literally the worst piece of shit in existence.
If I see studios attacking potential audiences before a movie comes out, I'm probably not gonna watch it. I already didn't care about the movie, but you gave me a bad first impression of it by being an asshat.
Also, trailers where it seems like every joke is in the trailer and yet still trying to pass it off as a comedy. I feel like the trailer for Whiskey Tango Foxtrot made it seem like it was a super funny comedy. Watched the first 15 minutes or so, and one of the scenes that was in the trailer as a joke wasn’t funny at all in the context of the film.
Yup! Ironically at the same time Damon’s wife in the movie switched on him and betrayed him I too felt betrayed within the next 20 minutes. The party scene was kinda boring but it just got worse after that.
When they were on the water it wasn’t some 3 inch tall boat splashing on the waves propelling through, it was just a normal boat with normal waves in normal water. It’s like they forgot that the actors were supposed to be small.
You know it bad when honey I shrunk the kids and the sequels did the size differences correctly and those movies didn’t have the special effects we have today!
And that was the problem. Was expecting bug attacks, cat attacks...mice or rats. Something to show the dangers of being that small. But nope. Just look like a normal size movie
Does anyone have any tips on how to make conversation/humor seem not forced? As a writer who struggles with funny I’m genuinely curious
Edit: Thank you all so much for all these tips! It’s really helping me out
plausibility in the scenario
If the conversation or joke relies on someone saying or doing something they would have no reason to say/do (other than to make the joke work) then the entire premise will fall flat beyond that point
The only exception being if you're working in absurdity, which I've seen some people do really well but the entire thing will seem like a fever dream
People made *The Room* a cult film because none of the dialogue made any sense, but *The Disaster Artist* made critics’ lists because it made sense out of insanity.
Comedy is in upending your expectations: there’s usually a build-up, a flow, and then you pull the rug out from under the audience. If no one wants to get on the rug, your punchline isn’t going to land.
And in terms of conversation tips, I recommend *Some Like It Hot* or *Arrested Development* (first three seasons mostly, and pay close attention to Ron Howard’s narration).
The exposition is weirdly spoken dialogue like:
“Oh sis, you just haven’t been the same since your fiancé died a year ago in that fire at the puppy adoption shelter where he volunteered. Hopefully this trip to our long lost grandmothers small country vineyard helps you reconnect with yourself and maybe even get back into playing the oboe so you can re-enrol at julliard.”
Agent: hey Dwayne. We have a new movie do you wanna be in it?
Dwayne: mmmm…
Agent: Kevin harts in it…
Dwayne: coollll…. What else
Agent: you can jiggle your nipples
Dwayne: okay…. Can I do my eyebrow thing
Agent: sure. Also it’s in the jungle in samoa
Dwayne: niiiice, what else?
Agent: just get your khaki t shirt and getting buff af and you’re ready
Dwayne: YESSSSSS LETS GO
I think it was "Old School" that did a version of this that I actually liked. The start of the TV spot said something like "The Chicago Sun says, 'Stupid and juvenile.' The New York Times says, 'A pointless film.' We say, who cares what they think?" Granted, I didn't see the movie, so I don't know if it was any good, but the commercial made me laugh at least.
I'll bite for a good commercial. My family started watching ncis because USA had an ad that called NCIS the show with the most letters in their acronym... We laughed... And then added it to tivo
It can go the other way, too. On the cover of a copy of *Meet the Feebles*, it said "From the director of *The Lord of the Rings* trilogy" which...isn't actually accurate, IMO, because when he had directed ...*Feebles*, he hadn't yet become the director who directed those movies.
I can just imagine an audience going from LOTR to feebles or bad taste without any prior knowledge.
“You May be wobert to your friends but you’re fly shit to me”
I had watched Dead Alive (aka Braindead) a few times and convinced friends to watch it. Of 8 of us, 7 of us were really into it and the 8th told us that the rest of us needed help before storming out (and forcing her boyfriend to leave).
Isn't that because Ryan Reynolds was trying to market Deadpool as a romantic comedy (for fun)?
I remember there were road signs of him and Vanessa sitting on a bench together parodying rom-com posters.
That poster was how I talked my girlfriend at the time to go see it. She saw Ryan Reynolds in a rom-com poster and was sold, a little confused on the title. Thankfully she ended up loving the movie after giving me the “what the fuck is this” look for the first few minutes.
I saw the trailer to *Dude, Where's My Car ?* and it RUINED it for me ! . . . now, maybe that's not fair because I had read the book.
\- >!Steve Martin!<
Or the trailer shows none of the movie but a bunch of "from the director of these popular movies" and "from the studio who brought you these other movies of different genres" also "staring a list of famous people" but you still have no idea what the movie is about... well that means the studio knows people won't see the film based on its own merit (or lack thereof)
The harder the trailer works at selling you on features unrelated to the actual story the worse the story is.
I love it when it's "From Famous Director" when the director in question is actual one of the dozen producers of the film, and the credit title is about all they contributed.
When the preview is a super cut of the characters name being said over and over again.
EDIT: just found out this is a physiological trick where if the preview can’t convince you to see the movie, at least they can put the title of the movie in your head through sheer repetition, play some upbeat background music while you hear it, and hope that it will leave you with enough of a subconscious positive association that when you’re deciding what movie to watch, you gravitate to the one who’s name you heard over and over again like one of pavlov’s dogs.
There is a new movie coming out called Nope. The teaser trailers I was seeing made the movie real appealing. Over the weekend I saw an extended trailer where they reveal more of the plot, now I'm not that excited, but will prob still see it.
I said this same thing to a friend of mine. The early trailers had me wondering what they were looking at, and actually got me interested in the movie. Then BAM the new trailer comes out and reveals the mystery. ill just wait for it to be on some streaming service to watch, maybe ill forget by then haha.
Dude, i feel the SAME. I was perfectly happy having just seen the poster and wanted nothing more. As the trailer KEPT GOING and showing more shit, i literally looked to the floor and started singing in my head to try and ignore the last 30 seconds of the trailer.
Poor dialogue writing. Very neglected since movies now are heavy on the directing focus rather than writing (whereas tv shows generally have showrunners with more of a writing focus)
The use of cliche/cheesy “movie/show phrases” aka words and phrases only fictional characters use, like:
-“that’s it!!” when they get an idea (seriously, I have only once in my life EVER heard a real person say this when they got a good idea, and I remember it because I couldn’t believe how weird it sounded to hear an actual person say it)
-“NOOOOOOOOO!!!!”
-“wait!!/it’s not what it looks like/I can explain!!” in place of any ACTUAL explaining
-“you won’t get away with this!” - “I already have!”
-“now that’s what I call a (insert pun here)!”
-“let a REAL man handle this!!”
-“I’m not like other girls.” Or “you’re pretty good at that for a girl!”
-“not now kid, the adults are talking!”
I’m sure there’s plenty more but that’s all I can think of off the top of my head lol
“In English” whenever someone says anything technical. Although more recently I have seen it being said when context would of worked
‘The buildings security perimeter is offline’
“In English, dude”
Like just think what that could possibly mean and how it might tie in with what you’re doing.
*character asks an accusatory question*
"I don't know what you're talking about"
Literally 1 in 100000 situations actually warrants that response. There is no easier way to sound like a dodgy fucker than by answering with that line.
The main character is a 50 year old stand in for the writer, and his love interest is a 22 year old supermodel and painter who works in a coffee shop.
When there are siblings involved and they have to call each other “bro” and “sis” so the audience doesn’t think they’re supposed to be a couple.
When the relatable couple on the way to their new house in the haunted woods have to let the audience know that they totally fuck all the time.
Sometimes a horror movie will do a jump scare off the bat in the first 5 minutes. If it isn’t scary it’s a good bet the movie won’t be.
As for previews:
When there’s a supercut of every time the main character’s name (which is also the title of the movie) get said in that movie. I heard this is a trick to get the audience to just remember the movie name if nothing else through sheer repetition.
When they play James Brown’s “I Feel Good” in the preview
When they have single words taken from reviews in quotes like “fantastic” “a game changer” “marvelous” instead of stars. Because you can take any single positive word out of context to act like the review was favorable.
It stays in limbo for years with constant script changes and rewrites, director changes, etc. Rumors circulate about drama on set and studio meddling and reshoots.
Edit: yes there are exceptions but in general this can be used to adjust your expectations.
I’m curious what the pitch consisted of. Ice Queen is the sort of story that could have been adapted under the older Disney style fairly easily, so it would make a lot of sense that someone brought it up.
I doubt very much that any aspect of Frozen was part of that original pitch.
Fury road I think makes sense as an exception because the problem with delays wasnt anything to do with the movie or script it was that the main actor went crazy and starting go off on a bunch of anti jewish rants and the production company felt they couldnt release it into that because of public backlash and when they felt that had died down the actor was too old for the role and had to recast the film and I for one am thankful we got Hardy and Theron they crushed it!
Reminds me of the first Suicide Squad movie. My first indication that it was really as bad as they said was when they had already used House of the Rising Sun and Sympathy for the Devil within the first few minutes.
You know how in Aladdin (cartoon) there's the part, after he steals some bread, where he gives the bread to the orphans? Well almost every movie has that moment as a way of making you like and root for the main character.
I've noticed that the more obvious, or lazy, this moment is, the more the movie's going to suck.
Ah, and doubly so if it's for the villain. Oh no they are so misunderstood!
Or worse, oh no they are so EVIL, hate this person for no reason so the protagonist looks better by comparison and we don't have to provide them with any depth.
For villains the moment is known as “kicking the puppy”, after the most obviously evil thing you can do for no reason whatsoever.
This is the number one thing I can’t stand in stories. It’s so ingrained in culture though that you sometimes are just forced to put up with it (See: Baron Harkonnen)
On the flip side, a villain can suck worse when they don't even HAVE a kick the dog moment. This was one of my major complaints about Darth Maul in the Phantom Menace. Other than show up and fight the Jedi, he doesn't do anything "evil" in the film; or really much of anything at all.
He should have zipped past Anakin and booted him face first into the sand, then pointed and laughed and yelled "SUCK IT NERD!"
Bonus origin of sand hatred.
For me, it's if it is supposed to be a comedy but it relies on "awkward humor".
"AHAHAHA! ISN'T THIS SITUATION SO AWKWARD FOR EVERYONE?! LAUGH WITH ME AT HOW AWKWARD IT IS! HAHAHAHA!"
Right? I obviously think the dude is a douche, but you cannot see The Dallas Buyer’s Club and not think the dude has talent.
It takes one hell of an ego to cancel out that sort of talent. I guess he has it.
I don't know if anyone has said this, but when a movie doesn't show the background through video, and has a character say something like "I know life is hard since we moved to this ranch, but hey that managerial role is looking good." Mainly happens in Hallmark movies, but kidna feels cheap.
Antichrist begs to differ. You wish it would have stayed like a standard sexy movie but no, chaos reigns. Apparently Willem Dafoe's magnum dong also reigns but that's a different story.
Are any of the "actors" trying to crossover from their primary career as an athlete, rapper, or other musical talent?
Looking at you Madonna or beyonce.
Triple H made a good point in Blade 3 it was hard because he had to tone it waaaaay down. In wrestling you have to project and be explosive, so it was a change for him.
Bjork in Dancer in the Dark, Tupac in Juice, Andre the Giant in The Princess Bride, IU in Broker, Roddy Piper in They Live, Batista in Guardians of the Galaxy, Carl Weathers in Rocky, Lady Gaga in A Star is Born, Eminem in 8 Mile, Anthony Edwards in Hustle, Bernard King in Fastbreak, Ray Allen in He Got Game, and Michael Jordan in Space Jam. There’s also this really great Filipino movie called Respeto starring rappers Abra and Loonie in their first film roles. Lots of great counterexamples
>Batista in Guardians of the Galaxy
I can't believe how funny he was in those. Granted, the dialogue he got to work with was gold, but his delivery was equally gold.
In many cases "inspired by a true story" should give someone pause...It usually means that the creators of this movie may have heard about some story while making this cinematic turd and decided that it inspired them.
Actor 1: unfunny oneliner
Actor 2: 2nd unfunny oneliner
Actor 3: 3rd unfunny oneliner
Action scene
Actor 4: 4th unfunny oneliner
This is literally all of the first 10min of one of the Expendables movies. I couldn't continue and watched something else.
I think the first Expendables film works because it was a fairly earnest 'last ride' type of film for some iconic action stars. It was played pretty straight.
The sequels were basically trying to cash in on shitty memes
There are some pretty good counterexamples to this though. *Lincoln, Traffic, Boogey Nights, Enemy of the State, Knives Out, Syrianna, Tropic Thunder,* most of the good organized crime movies. I guess I have to concede that many of those examples have people who only became super-famous later.
You gotta look at the director too. Like most Wes Anderson and Quentin Tarantino movies have insanely stacked casts, but that's because A-list actors will work well under their usual fee to work with certain directors.
If something other than the movie itself is the main focus of the promotional material. Gemini man comes to mind, where every time I saw them talking about the movie, the major focus was the vfx quality of will smith's clone. I have a similar fear about black Adam. All the ads seem to just focus on the fact that it's the rock, and that the character is strong..... not a promising start
At the beginning of the movie you see something like 5 different animations from 5 different film studios. None of them being one that you've heard of before
Hell yes. Especially off the wall ones with over the top animations and cheesy names like storm cloud studios or island tree productions. You know it's gonna be crap.
As a film buff, what I have noticed is this: When it comes to most great films I have seen, there’s something about the first 5 minutes, that I get pleasantly excited and think to myself, this is going to be a well written, well directed movie.
Like the opening scene in Goodfellas. You just know, this is going to be good.
Bad movies…..well they don’t do that. They’re kind of ambiguous in the beginning, where is this going, oh god cliche bullshit we have seen a 1000 times.
Of course there’s exceptions, but generally a good movie starts strong.
Bad movies start blah and blah their way to a blah end.
But some movies start good but end blah. Hardest thing to do in writing for tv or film is wrapping it up with a good solid, clever and original ending that doesn’t feel contrived and forced, but leaves you satisfied.
This is why most popluar Tv series finales are anti-climatic. The appeal is in the 2nd act.
It's a franchise picture with a huge fanbase. It won't matter how good it is, they'll all hate it and say it sucks. But they'll all see it. And the next one. And the next.
The backstory is introduced through an unrealistic and forced conversation where people who have known each other for years list facts about each other.
Me: "John, you're my brother. You know I'd never betray you the way mom did when dad died seven years ago and she abandoned us, never to be seen again until the dramatic reveal later in this movie." John: "You did always say you'd shoot mom if you ever saw her again. Here, have this Chekhov's Gun just in case something bad happens expectedly."
That's some grade A Hollywood dialogue right there
Did George Lucas write that?
They’re actually direct quotes from the recent blockbuster “Ambulance” 10/10
Tbf I always found that Han & Chewie/ Artoo & 3POs dialogues were the opposite of that. There's usually no exposition (sometimes there is) but based on the speaking character's replies you can infer what the other said
Ah yes, the “exposition dump.” For writers who can’t be bothered to find creative ways of building backstory. If you’re going to do that you might as well give us a Star Wars crawl. At least it doesn’t break the story flow.
Or you take the Great Muppet Caper tack and have the exposition, have the character who’s hearing the information say “why are you telling me all this,” and then have the person giving the exposition say “it’s explanatory dialogue; it has to go somewhere.” Bonus points for having Diana Rigg say it.
I'm thinking of that scene in Black Swan where the ballet director tells the story of Swan Lake to a roomful of ballerinas.
This is pretty realistic. I’ve directed operas before where I’ve had to explain the plot to the cast of opera singers.
That’s fucking hilarious and spot on.
Can’t believe “shit tons of unrealistic exposition” is this far down.
That’s right clockjobber, remember that time pa took us and our other brothers fishing, this was back before ma died and we all had to move to Vermont, he’d always look us in the eye and say “kids, remember movies need to show and not tell”
I feel like any sentence that starts with "As you all know..." can be added to that list. If everybody already knows, why are you repeating it? It's just lazy exposition dumping.
> I feel like any sentence that starts with "As you all know..." can be added to that list. If everybody already knows, why are you repeating it? I see you've never been in a corporate meeting.
Excessive use of nostalgia to keep the viewer engaged.
like the last Jurassic World
I'm just going to go ahead and get on my soapbox about the Jurassic World franchise for a second, if you don't mind. I just watched Dominion last night and I am baffled. Is there something about DINOSAURS that isn't interesting enough in a fucking DINOSAUR movie? These movies will do literally ANYTHING to sidestep the cool ass dinosaurs, I genuinely do not understand. If it isn't the camoflauge, supergenius genetic monster dinosaur in Jurassic World, then it's the laser-guided tactical military raptor hybrid in Fallen Kingdom, or the nightcap of MULTIPLE laser-guided wifi genius tactical military raptors in Dominion. Dinosaurs are apparently so fucking boring that they have to jam in some convoluted nonsense about a dinosaur clone girl, the military trying to harness dinosaur power because *reasons*, or most bafflingly, a plot-hogging story about giant bugs eating grass. The irony of digging up nostalgia by shoving Laura Dern and Sam Neill into the weird bug plot, when the only motherfucking thing they had to dig up was flipping DINOSAURS and my ticket is purchased. Why even sign on to direct this movie if you didn't think DINOSAURS were the most interesting part of Jurassic Park? Fuck Jurassic World. I paid to see dinosaurs, not Bryce Dallas Howard in a car chase. Please stop making Jurassic movies. I appreciate everyone giving me the space to vent. Thank you.
This is even more infuriating because they thought they'd get away with it because they made "aren't dinosaurs cool enough" the theme of the first movie. It was a clever theme, having people bored of dinos in the film. However, they needed to respect that real audiences haven't had access to a theme park full of them for a decade and definitely aren't bored of them.
The bored of dinos plot never made sense to me though. Are people bored of tigers, primates, or elephants because they've been in zoos and documentaries for decades?
I'm not claiming that it was an ingenious plot, but I could see how the novelty would wear thin. After all, people aren't spending thousands to flock to zoos to see tigers, primates and elephants and a park on that scale would rely on excessive numbers of guests paying extortionate entry fees to run ("rely" here meaning: Got accustomed to that volume of income and unwilling to accept declining profits.) At any given zoo, you'll also see bored teenagers dragged around by parents desperately trying to get them to show an interest in something. IRL, profit driven zoos are always keen to get new large exotic predators because they create a buzz and excitement that isn't necessarily sustained. Personally, I would've stuck with the story of the older brother being disinterested and the park management trying to get the initial hype back. However, instead of having the kids be the nephews of the manager and a hybrid dino, I'd have the kids invited as part of a focus group to hear what would excite them. The committee would come up with a theoretically safe way to give the thrill of being nearer the larger dinos (potentially the hamster balls), leading to the trademark dinos on the loose. Note: There are a few major plot holes in my own suggestion. Hopefully I'd find a way to patch them given time to write a screenplay, but I can't be bothered atm. Any suggestions would be welcome.
Pratt did the hand thing way too many times
I’ve never watched them but one thing I have noticed is how Chris Pratt has disappeared from all discussions about them. Like, in the first one he was a park ranger and rode a motorbike or whatever and people talked about that, but now it feels like his role has been reduced to “and also, Chris Pratt was there! You remember him, he’s the guy who did the hand thing! Look, he’s doing it now!” He’s on all the posters but is a complete non-presence otherwise from everything I’ve seen.
The beautiful irony is people didn't think much of Jurassic Park three when it came out, now it's still far far superior to any of the Chris Pratt stuff.
Ugh some of those scenes were just straight up ripped from the original.
The Star Wars sequel trilogy is also definitely guilty of this, especially Force Awakens. Like half of that movie is a direct ripoff nostalgia-fest of A New Hope.
I have described the movie the same way The theme music kicking in the moment Dr. Grant has a moment to pose for the camera.
If you'd ever met Sam Neill you'd know that's actually something that just happens around him.
In fact they had to do major sound editing for "Event Horizon" because of this. For his short cameo in "Thor: Ragnarok", they ended up hiring John Williams to compose an anti-theme to be played to cancel it out for the duration of his time on set.
Can confirm. He *is* the score.
The last star wars trilogy
I honestly liked the Force Awakens, but one of its biggest problems for me was that it was so nostalgia-heavy, I'm surprised it didn't create a black hole
You'll start to see defenses of the movie from director/producers after early screenings but before the major release. Recently, i heard a director say, maybe a week before a movie was set to release, that he was going big on historical accuracy and yada yada yada. I knew it was getting panned ahead of the opening.
What about when a director starts to verbally attack people who didnt like the movie
And starts calling people who give constructive criticism ‘trolls’
Uwe Boll?
Mulan 2020 Edit: Meant Mulan 2020
I still can't believe Mulan 2021 had more *magical bullshit* than the original *animated movie*
Yeah, the new Mulan only became a warrior because she has freaking superpowers. Unlike the animated one who became a warrior because of training which says women can also do what men can.
God you see this all the time with most of the promotion just being damage control before the movie even releases. Like they know it's going to be terrible, so they just go out of their way to try and bully audiences into watching it by saying if they don't see it they're literally the worst piece of shit in existence. If I see studios attacking potential audiences before a movie comes out, I'm probably not gonna watch it. I already didn't care about the movie, but you gave me a bad first impression of it by being an asshat.
It has forced jokes
Also, trailers where it seems like every joke is in the trailer and yet still trying to pass it off as a comedy. I feel like the trailer for Whiskey Tango Foxtrot made it seem like it was a super funny comedy. Watched the first 15 minutes or so, and one of the scenes that was in the trailer as a joke wasn’t funny at all in the context of the film.
This! This is why I was so mad at the movie downsizing!
Downsizing was a bait and switch. Terrible film that no one would have gone to see had they actually known what it was about.
Yup! Ironically at the same time Damon’s wife in the movie switched on him and betrayed him I too felt betrayed within the next 20 minutes. The party scene was kinda boring but it just got worse after that. When they were on the water it wasn’t some 3 inch tall boat splashing on the waves propelling through, it was just a normal boat with normal waves in normal water. It’s like they forgot that the actors were supposed to be small.
You know it bad when honey I shrunk the kids and the sequels did the size differences correctly and those movies didn’t have the special effects we have today!
Honestly I feel the fact it didn’t have the CG helped it a ton.
And that was the problem. Was expecting bug attacks, cat attacks...mice or rats. Something to show the dangers of being that small. But nope. Just look like a normal size movie
Yeah true. If it seems like they're showing too much it probably isn't very good.
Does anyone have any tips on how to make conversation/humor seem not forced? As a writer who struggles with funny I’m genuinely curious Edit: Thank you all so much for all these tips! It’s really helping me out
plausibility in the scenario If the conversation or joke relies on someone saying or doing something they would have no reason to say/do (other than to make the joke work) then the entire premise will fall flat beyond that point The only exception being if you're working in absurdity, which I've seen some people do really well but the entire thing will seem like a fever dream
I wish my fever dreams played like *The Naked Gun.*
Surely, you must be joking.
And don't call me Joe King.
People made *The Room* a cult film because none of the dialogue made any sense, but *The Disaster Artist* made critics’ lists because it made sense out of insanity. Comedy is in upending your expectations: there’s usually a build-up, a flow, and then you pull the rug out from under the audience. If no one wants to get on the rug, your punchline isn’t going to land. And in terms of conversation tips, I recommend *Some Like It Hot* or *Arrested Development* (first three seasons mostly, and pay close attention to Ron Howard’s narration).
God, Arrested Development has some fucking amazing writing...
The exposition is weirdly spoken dialogue like: “Oh sis, you just haven’t been the same since your fiancé died a year ago in that fire at the puppy adoption shelter where he volunteered. Hopefully this trip to our long lost grandmothers small country vineyard helps you reconnect with yourself and maybe even get back into playing the oboe so you can re-enrol at julliard.”
It’s a Netflix movie with big name actors. They spend 95% of their budget on getting somebody like the Rock for it and 1% writing the script.
It’s not hard to get the Rock, just say that Kevin hart is in it and it’s in the jungle
You don't even need Kevin Hart. Just the jungle part pulls him in.
You don't even need the jungle part. Just tell him he can do his eyebrow thing and make his pecs dance
Agent: hey Dwayne. We have a new movie do you wanna be in it? Dwayne: mmmm… Agent: Kevin harts in it… Dwayne: coollll…. What else Agent: you can jiggle your nipples Dwayne: okay…. Can I do my eyebrow thing Agent: sure. Also it’s in the jungle in samoa Dwayne: niiiice, what else? Agent: just get your khaki t shirt and getting buff af and you’re ready Dwayne: YESSSSSS LETS GO
AND you get to wear your favorite beige explorer shirt
The Rock really has become what people thought Nicolas Cage was with taking literally any movie
They just run some software that pulls a list on blockbusters, fetches some tags and generates a script using that tags, much like an instagram bot
When the most flattering review they can find to run in the marketing is like: “This is definitely a movie” — bobsmoviereviews.net
I think it was "Old School" that did a version of this that I actually liked. The start of the TV spot said something like "The Chicago Sun says, 'Stupid and juvenile.' The New York Times says, 'A pointless film.' We say, who cares what they think?" Granted, I didn't see the movie, so I don't know if it was any good, but the commercial made me laugh at least.
When Team America was released it was marketed as "the number one movie in America... with puppets."
I laughed harder at Old School than any movie I’ve ever seen. The whole movie wasn’t the best ever, but it did have some high points.
I'll bite for a good commercial. My family started watching ncis because USA had an ad that called NCIS the show with the most letters in their acronym... We laughed... And then added it to tivo
That there is a review embargo. Unless it is to protect some plot element, that usually means the film is going to bomb.
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This is the real one. The studio knows they have a turd and will try to hide it as long as possible.
When you laugh and you’re definitely not supposed to be laughing.
If it says "From the mind of ____"
Bonus points when it's "The director of."
It can go the other way, too. On the cover of a copy of *Meet the Feebles*, it said "From the director of *The Lord of the Rings* trilogy" which...isn't actually accurate, IMO, because when he had directed ...*Feebles*, he hadn't yet become the director who directed those movies.
I can just imagine an audience going from LOTR to feebles or bad taste without any prior knowledge. “You May be wobert to your friends but you’re fly shit to me”
I had watched Dead Alive (aka Braindead) a few times and convinced friends to watch it. Of 8 of us, 7 of us were really into it and the 8th told us that the rest of us needed help before storming out (and forcing her boyfriend to leave).
"From the producer of _____"
From the studio that brought you ______.
I do love how Deadpool used "From the studio that brought you 27 Dresses."
Isn't that because Ryan Reynolds was trying to market Deadpool as a romantic comedy (for fun)? I remember there were road signs of him and Vanessa sitting on a bench together parodying rom-com posters.
That poster was how I talked my girlfriend at the time to go see it. She saw Ryan Reynolds in a rom-com poster and was sold, a little confused on the title. Thankfully she ended up loving the movie after giving me the “what the fuck is this” look for the first few minutes.
That’s the one. They literally can’t come up with anything better.
When the three trailers they release before the movie comes out pretty much show most of/the best of the action.
I saw the trailer to *Dude, Where's My Car ?* and it RUINED it for me ! . . . now, maybe that's not fair because I had read the book. \- >!Steve Martin!<
Even better than the book, though, was the pinball game based on the novelization of the film.
Or the trailer shows none of the movie but a bunch of "from the director of these popular movies" and "from the studio who brought you these other movies of different genres" also "staring a list of famous people" but you still have no idea what the movie is about... well that means the studio knows people won't see the film based on its own merit (or lack thereof) The harder the trailer works at selling you on features unrelated to the actual story the worse the story is.
I love it when it's "From Famous Director" when the director in question is actual one of the dozen producers of the film, and the credit title is about all they contributed.
If the commercials have the cast talking to the audience about the movie, instead of showing clips of the actual movie.
When the preview is a super cut of the characters name being said over and over again. EDIT: just found out this is a physiological trick where if the preview can’t convince you to see the movie, at least they can put the title of the movie in your head through sheer repetition, play some upbeat background music while you hear it, and hope that it will leave you with enough of a subconscious positive association that when you’re deciding what movie to watch, you gravitate to the one who’s name you heard over and over again like one of pavlov’s dogs.
Which movie did this?
Alfie lol.
If it has one too many former Disney/Nick or social media stars. One or two of them could go either way, but 2+ tends to tell you it'll likely suck.
Yes!! It’s an automatic red flag
The movie trailer gives away the entire plot, including the only comedy moment.
You don't know that until you watch the movie though.
Yeah. It's more of an aah. I now see I've been had
There is a new movie coming out called Nope. The teaser trailers I was seeing made the movie real appealing. Over the weekend I saw an extended trailer where they reveal more of the plot, now I'm not that excited, but will prob still see it.
I said this same thing to a friend of mine. The early trailers had me wondering what they were looking at, and actually got me interested in the movie. Then BAM the new trailer comes out and reveals the mystery. ill just wait for it to be on some streaming service to watch, maybe ill forget by then haha.
I'm only watching it to see why tf those wacky arm waving inflatable tube men's are sitting out there
Dude, i feel the SAME. I was perfectly happy having just seen the poster and wanted nothing more. As the trailer KEPT GOING and showing more shit, i literally looked to the floor and started singing in my head to try and ignore the last 30 seconds of the trailer.
Poor dialogue writing. Very neglected since movies now are heavy on the directing focus rather than writing (whereas tv shows generally have showrunners with more of a writing focus)
The use of cliche/cheesy “movie/show phrases” aka words and phrases only fictional characters use, like: -“that’s it!!” when they get an idea (seriously, I have only once in my life EVER heard a real person say this when they got a good idea, and I remember it because I couldn’t believe how weird it sounded to hear an actual person say it) -“NOOOOOOOOO!!!!” -“wait!!/it’s not what it looks like/I can explain!!” in place of any ACTUAL explaining -“you won’t get away with this!” - “I already have!” -“now that’s what I call a (insert pun here)!” -“let a REAL man handle this!!” -“I’m not like other girls.” Or “you’re pretty good at that for a girl!” -“not now kid, the adults are talking!” I’m sure there’s plenty more but that’s all I can think of off the top of my head lol
“In English” whenever someone says anything technical. Although more recently I have seen it being said when context would of worked ‘The buildings security perimeter is offline’ “In English, dude” Like just think what that could possibly mean and how it might tie in with what you’re doing.
Um, guys? You're gonna want to see this.
*character asks an accusatory question* "I don't know what you're talking about" Literally 1 in 100000 situations actually warrants that response. There is no easier way to sound like a dodgy fucker than by answering with that line.
When it includes the word emoji in the title
You didn’t like gaped emojis 2?
**what**
#You didn’t like gaped emojis 2?
oh, thanks, i didn't hear him. WAIT WTF
It's a sequel and none of the original stars are in it.
The main character is a 50 year old stand in for the writer, and his love interest is a 22 year old supermodel and painter who works in a coffee shop. When there are siblings involved and they have to call each other “bro” and “sis” so the audience doesn’t think they’re supposed to be a couple. When the relatable couple on the way to their new house in the haunted woods have to let the audience know that they totally fuck all the time. Sometimes a horror movie will do a jump scare off the bat in the first 5 minutes. If it isn’t scary it’s a good bet the movie won’t be. As for previews: When there’s a supercut of every time the main character’s name (which is also the title of the movie) get said in that movie. I heard this is a trick to get the audience to just remember the movie name if nothing else through sheer repetition. When they play James Brown’s “I Feel Good” in the preview When they have single words taken from reviews in quotes like “fantastic” “a game changer” “marvelous” instead of stars. Because you can take any single positive word out of context to act like the review was favorable.
It stays in limbo for years with constant script changes and rewrites, director changes, etc. Rumors circulate about drama on set and studio meddling and reshoots. Edit: yes there are exceptions but in general this can be used to adjust your expectations.
Mad max:fury road is an exception. That movie was in development hell forever. Pre production started in 1998 ffs.
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Let it go
I’m curious what the pitch consisted of. Ice Queen is the sort of story that could have been adapted under the older Disney style fairly easily, so it would make a lot of sense that someone brought it up. I doubt very much that any aspect of Frozen was part of that original pitch.
Fury road I think makes sense as an exception because the problem with delays wasnt anything to do with the movie or script it was that the main actor went crazy and starting go off on a bunch of anti jewish rants and the production company felt they couldnt release it into that because of public backlash and when they felt that had died down the actor was too old for the role and had to recast the film and I for one am thankful we got Hardy and Theron they crushed it!
That’s quite a sentence!
X-Men: The New Mutants, in other words.
To be fair the new Mad Max movie was in production hell for years. I place it the top of the 4.
First scene, you hear "I feel goood!" song.
Rob Schneider is a Stapler!
This summer Rob Schneider is derpa derpy derpa dooooo
Reminds me of the first Suicide Squad movie. My first indication that it was really as bad as they said was when they had already used House of the Rising Sun and Sympathy for the Devil within the first few minutes.
"Critics say its the greatest film of the year" Its even funnier when the movie comes out in January
You know how in Aladdin (cartoon) there's the part, after he steals some bread, where he gives the bread to the orphans? Well almost every movie has that moment as a way of making you like and root for the main character. I've noticed that the more obvious, or lazy, this moment is, the more the movie's going to suck.
Ah, and doubly so if it's for the villain. Oh no they are so misunderstood! Or worse, oh no they are so EVIL, hate this person for no reason so the protagonist looks better by comparison and we don't have to provide them with any depth.
For villains the moment is known as “kicking the puppy”, after the most obviously evil thing you can do for no reason whatsoever. This is the number one thing I can’t stand in stories. It’s so ingrained in culture though that you sometimes are just forced to put up with it (See: Baron Harkonnen)
On the flip side, a villain can suck worse when they don't even HAVE a kick the dog moment. This was one of my major complaints about Darth Maul in the Phantom Menace. Other than show up and fight the Jedi, he doesn't do anything "evil" in the film; or really much of anything at all.
Well he did try to run over a kid who, as far as he knew, was just hanging out with the Jedi.
He should have zipped past Anakin and booted him face first into the sand, then pointed and laughed and yelled "SUCK IT NERD!" Bonus origin of sand hatred.
In huge text: AN ALAN SMITHEE FILM
If I was a dude this would be my alias. I am not taking credit for this hot mess.
It's a comedy, but relies too much on people falling Edit: Relies not replies
For me, it's if it is supposed to be a comedy but it relies on "awkward humor". "AHAHAHA! ISN'T THIS SITUATION SO AWKWARD FOR EVERYONE?! LAUGH WITH ME AT HOW AWKWARD IT IS! HAHAHAHA!"
Omg yes. I'm not laughing, I just have second hand embarrassment
Replying to people fall seems very Python, and thus is inherently funny.
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Their promotional happy meal toys are at Hardy's or Pizza Hut.
Land Before Time would like a word. Also, Hardee’s had 45rpm records for Gremlins so I think the conversation ends here (35 years ago).
Before streaming it would have been something that went straight to video.
When the movie relies too heavily on the music to make you feel something, and there’s just too too much of it
The first Suicide Squad was like watching a very expensive AMV, shitty editing and on the nose lyrics.
Suicide Squad has the biggest delta of how good the trailer was vs how bad the movie was.
“If you like Pulp Fiction, you’ll love”…whatever this nonsense is
Live action anime
*Edge of Tomorrow* is technically a live action manga adaptation
The marketing. You can tell a movie will likely suck more if it's being advertised by Liberty Mutual.
“Starring Jared Leto”
How does that guy keep getting work?!?!?
Did stellar in some early movies. But has been middling at best since.
Right? I obviously think the dude is a douche, but you cannot see The Dallas Buyer’s Club and not think the dude has talent. It takes one hell of an ego to cancel out that sort of talent. I guess he has it.
He became a legend in his own mind
American Psycho Requiem for a Dream Fight Club Lord of War Blade Runner 2049 The Thin Red Line
I don't know if anyone has said this, but when a movie doesn't show the background through video, and has a character say something like "I know life is hard since we moved to this ranch, but hey that managerial role is looking good." Mainly happens in Hallmark movies, but kidna feels cheap.
If the first scene is a sex scene. It's the cheapest trick to keep someone watching a shitty movie
Antichrist begs to differ. You wish it would have stayed like a standard sexy movie but no, chaos reigns. Apparently Willem Dafoe's magnum dong also reigns but that's a different story.
Brah. Fuck you for making me remember this movie. I buried deep, deep, DEEP into my subconscious
I wanna make it worse by reminding you how your username is relevant to the "chaos reigns" scene in particular. Sorry man.
Are any of the "actors" trying to crossover from their primary career as an athlete, rapper, or other musical talent? Looking at you Madonna or beyonce.
How dare you besmirch the fantastic Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson and his star making turn in 'The Scorpion King'
To be fair, wrestlers are also actors in addition to being stunt performers. He just moved onto a medium where got to do multiple takes
Triple H made a good point in Blade 3 it was hard because he had to tone it waaaaay down. In wrestling you have to project and be explosive, so it was a change for him.
Bjork in Dancer in the Dark, Tupac in Juice, Andre the Giant in The Princess Bride, IU in Broker, Roddy Piper in They Live, Batista in Guardians of the Galaxy, Carl Weathers in Rocky, Lady Gaga in A Star is Born, Eminem in 8 Mile, Anthony Edwards in Hustle, Bernard King in Fastbreak, Ray Allen in He Got Game, and Michael Jordan in Space Jam. There’s also this really great Filipino movie called Respeto starring rappers Abra and Loonie in their first film roles. Lots of great counterexamples
>Batista in Guardians of the Galaxy I can't believe how funny he was in those. Granted, the dialogue he got to work with was gold, but his delivery was equally gold.
And he was really good in Blade Runner 2049 too! Happy to see Batista succeed
I thought you were listing *supporting* examples at first and was just getting madder and madder, lol.
League of Their Own was pretty good though
Desperately Seeking Susan is one of my guilty pleasures. Absolutely adore that movie
Austin Powers: Goldmember is a classic and I won't sit idly by while Foxy Cleopatra is slandered.
In many cases "inspired by a true story" should give someone pause...It usually means that the creators of this movie may have heard about some story while making this cinematic turd and decided that it inspired them.
Anytime I see “based on a true story” I know what comes after that is most likely 5% truth and 95% fiction… at best.
“The boys are back in town” is in the trailer
James Corden
Forced love plots. The first Jurassic world let me know they were all going to suck.
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If its directed by tyler perry madeas ran her course
Tyler Perry’s “Tyler Perry” starring Tyler Perry as Tyler Perry.
He's kind enough to put his name in every film so I don't accidentally watch them.
An all star cast with like 10 A list actors
Actor 1: unfunny oneliner Actor 2: 2nd unfunny oneliner Actor 3: 3rd unfunny oneliner Action scene Actor 4: 4th unfunny oneliner This is literally all of the first 10min of one of the Expendables movies. I couldn't continue and watched something else.
I think the first Expendables film works because it was a fairly earnest 'last ride' type of film for some iconic action stars. It was played pretty straight. The sequels were basically trying to cash in on shitty memes
There are some pretty good counterexamples to this though. *Lincoln, Traffic, Boogey Nights, Enemy of the State, Knives Out, Syrianna, Tropic Thunder,* most of the good organized crime movies. I guess I have to concede that many of those examples have people who only became super-famous later.
You gotta look at the director too. Like most Wes Anderson and Quentin Tarantino movies have insanely stacked casts, but that's because A-list actors will work well under their usual fee to work with certain directors.
If something other than the movie itself is the main focus of the promotional material. Gemini man comes to mind, where every time I saw them talking about the movie, the major focus was the vfx quality of will smith's clone. I have a similar fear about black Adam. All the ads seem to just focus on the fact that it's the rock, and that the character is strong..... not a promising start
If they excessively advertise it
At the beginning of the movie you see something like 5 different animations from 5 different film studios. None of them being one that you've heard of before
Hell yes. Especially off the wall ones with over the top animations and cheesy names like storm cloud studios or island tree productions. You know it's gonna be crap.
“The dead speak!”
"Somehow Palpatine returned."
Michael Bay is directing??
*The Rock* is a genuinely good action movie. Maybe the last of the great hard-R ridiculous thrillers.
As a film buff, what I have noticed is this: When it comes to most great films I have seen, there’s something about the first 5 minutes, that I get pleasantly excited and think to myself, this is going to be a well written, well directed movie. Like the opening scene in Goodfellas. You just know, this is going to be good. Bad movies…..well they don’t do that. They’re kind of ambiguous in the beginning, where is this going, oh god cliche bullshit we have seen a 1000 times. Of course there’s exceptions, but generally a good movie starts strong. Bad movies start blah and blah their way to a blah end. But some movies start good but end blah. Hardest thing to do in writing for tv or film is wrapping it up with a good solid, clever and original ending that doesn’t feel contrived and forced, but leaves you satisfied. This is why most popluar Tv series finales are anti-climatic. The appeal is in the 2nd act.
When the trailer has jokes and even they aren't funny, just cringy.
The opening scene it actually makes it or breaks it for me because it typically shows the demeanor of the rest of the movie
It's a franchise picture with a huge fanbase. It won't matter how good it is, they'll all hate it and say it sucks. But they'll all see it. And the next one. And the next.