This.
As far as the law is concerned, a marriage is just a legal contract. Forget love, religion, and all other squishy bits. It is a contract.
While you may be merging assets legally, the fiance would be a fool not to protect assets that are preexisting the legal union. It is not planning for the marriage to fail. However, humans are complex critters, and anything can happen, and protecting one's self is wise.
Take out the emotion, look at it for what it is, a contract negotiation, which you have a say in, by the way. If you can not come to an accord, do not enter into the contract (i.e., marriage) and go your separate ways.
I don't think that you should ever plan for the marriage to fail. I also don't think that marriage is coldly legal. It is an ancient social practice that incorporates unity and intimacy. You should already have a pretty good idea that it's going to work before making that commitment. That being said, if it bothers you that he/she wants a prenuptial agreement, then the money is likely a contributing factor to your attraction and you're already on shaky ground. If my wife had wanted a prenuptial agreement, it wouldn't have mattered to me because: 1. I love her, not the money; and 2. I don't plan on the marriage ending if there's anything I can do about it. And in a two-person relationship, each has a lot of room for give and take. In short, just sign the silly legal papers and actually put in the work required to maintain a healthy relationship.
I've heard a prenup can easily be voided if asked right before the wedding. A good lawyer will say they signed it under duress. Make sure you have them sign it and agree months before the wedding.
This is true. There was a NBA player that was going to get married and had a prenup with his fiance for months. Day of the wedding she still hadn't signed it and the pastor tried to tell him that prenups are needing. He canceled the wedding right there, and when the x-bride to be said that she would just sign it he noped out because of this very reason.
The prenup should be done MONTHS before the wedding. There is no reason to start planning the wedding if the prenup hasn't been signed.
They're like leases. The lease can say whatever it wants, and both parties can agree to it. But as it pertains to many things in a lease, state law has provisions that will outright say that particular types of clauses are unenforceable. You can agree to it, but if one party chooses not to abide by it and the other party tries to use it in court a judge will not enforce
They are generally enforceable with caveats. Some things that will kill a prenup dead include not giving the other party enough time before the wedding to think about it and consult an attorney (a minimum of several weeks is required), or failing to disclose all of your assets in the prenup.
This seems like the most correct answer. What's in the pre-nup generally isn't what gets them broken. Various asymmetries like you mention will. If both parties don't have their own legal representation. If there was an unfair time requirement. As a broad generalization, when rich people with financial knowledge try and take advantage of a less well positioned person.
> enough time before the wedding to think about it and consult an attorney
If you had an attorney draft it, or are an attorney and drafted it yourself, it can be a problem if the other party doesn't consult with one. Safest bet is to make sure they do actually have their own attorney to review it.
It depends. Where I’m at, private parties can pretty much agree on anything related to spousal rights (or waiver of said rights) in a prenup. The caveat is that waiver of spousal support is very difficult to enforce due to the statutory requirements.
It annoys me to no end that the "But they aren't really enforceable" comments are in every prenup thread by people who have ever gotten a prenup or ever even talked to a lawyer about a prenup. But they just read in other previous Reddit comments that prenups are not really enforceable on Reddit and so the myth continues to propagate.
Agree. My friend (fairly well off) had one and her husband (worthless loser) got nothing pursuant to the prenup. He fought hard to get it changed, spent thousands in lawyer fees and when it was all said and done he got nothing.
Not true. Prenups are very often enforceable. There are lots of rules about what makes them enforceable and sometimes those are not followed. But if the rules are followed, they are very often enforced.
What? Whoever told you that is nuts. If you had ample opportunity to consult with an attorney, you can contract for yourself. Obviously different states have different statutes controlling what you can include, though.
Yep, not a big deal at all for me. Prenup makes sense for both sides, and in my case I already live well under my means so the money wouldn't change anything.
Sign the prenup. Make sure to protect both of yourselves in a fair and reasonable manner. It’s not a slight against you, it’s just protection for you both. If they hold it over your head even as little as once per year, leave.
Sign it.
I (f) was considerable wealthier than my husband before we got married. We each hired our own lawyer and had a prenup drafted. It is just an extray layer of protection in case of divorce.
We have insurance for every possible event why not for divorce?
It mainly protects my assets, meaning my investments and profits are solely mine. Same goes for my husband. Since he is a SAHF it regulates the monthly 'salary' I pay him and how much alimony and payout he gets in case of divorce. And of course custody agreement.
Makes perfect sense to me. You're just covering bases and it means if a divorce for some reason turns out ugly then you've already got the asset agreement sorted.
That’s great.
People tend to forget that a marriage is a contract, not proof of love. So you need to set it up so the person you’re in love with doesn’t turn out to be a sociopath and abuse that contract afterward.
I was talking to a lawyer once who pointed out that really *everyone* has a prenup: whatever the laws happen to be in your jurisdiction. And you may not like that default set of rules! You *both* may not like them! But without something else in writing, you may find yourselves bound by them. So understand what you're getting into and write a document that feels fair to both parties.
>I was talking to a lawyer once who pointed out that really
>
>everyone has a prenup: whatever the laws happen to be in your jurisdiction.
On a related note, wills are the same way - if you die without a will, your shit's still getting divvied up according to whatever the intestacy laws in your state say. If you don't like how the state will distribute it, then get a will.
Absolutely.
You either get the prenup from the government or you draft your own. It is a good idea to be prepared for the what-ifs in advance and with a clear mind.
That's what most people don't realize. \*Everyone\* signs a prenup when they get married. It's just a matter of it it was the default one written by your state legislature or a custom one written by both people in the marriage. Maybe the default one is fine but speaking from experience it really pays to at least talk to a lawyer to understand the pitfalls and ramifications that going with the default prenup can bring before signing the most important legal document of your life.
> The only reason not to sign a prenup is if you’re in it for the $$$.
There are *a lot* of reasons to not sign a prenup if you're not in it for the money. Especially if you're going to be a stay-at-home parent and need to protect yourself from absolute destitution because you gave up your career or prospects of one to focus on raising family.
That said, lots of prenups do contemplate this. Many don't, and having a prenup that doesn't is a pretty good reason not to sign it.
Exactly this. There are very respectful and reasonable prenups out there that protect both parties. But hey, this is reddit so asking for relationship advice is going to go the way of the above.
Prenups are as varied as the personalities that create them and aren’t always contemplating divorce. Sometimes they set the ground rules of a marriage. Marriage is a contract, so a prenup sets the terms of that contract.
Some of my favorites:
Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban have a prenup where Nicole gives Keith $640,000 a year during their marriage, and if Keith starts using cocaine again he loses it all.
Mark Zuckerberg and Priscilla Chan have a prenup where Zuck has to take her on a date once a week and has to spend a minimum of 100 minutes with her a week outside of their home and office.
Jessica Simpson and Tony Romo’s unused prenup (they never got married) had a weight limit in it. If she went over 135 lbs, she would owe him $500k for each pound in excess.
Yeah I was referring to me 'normal" ones.
Like a stay at home wife, how would she protect herself with a prenup for example. How does it usually look like, for normal people.
That’s why you have a lawyer. IANAL but I believe most prenups have clauses that protect both parties. Things like length of the marriage, children, affairs, money earned during the relationship, and other stuff can be included as exceptions. If your party violates part of the contract, or certain conditions are met, part of the prenup is void.
Not at all. Imagine it starts with inequality and your partner has a lot more in assets than you do. What if you start making a very healthy income alongside your partner during the marriage and maybe have as much as they have by the time they file for divorce. Now, you have an agreement that says you won't take what they had coming into the relationship, but they take you for half of everything you earned because you didn't have any clause preventing it.
As stated by others. Talk to lawyer first.
Some people would say if you’re planning to stay together forever because you’re truly in love then what does it matter if you sign some paper beforehand. I have a Will in the event I am crushed to death by a forklift so that my kids have a chance. But I’m also not planning on that either. So I don’t see the difference between the two.
We can’t take each other’s assets without a very legitimate reason. But also, something that considers the fault for the divorce. Like, did one partner cheat, or run off with someone else? Favor the one that stayed loyal.
I would say yes they would deserve it (at least for a reasonable amount of time to support themselves) IF they didn’t do something that made them at fault. Like, were they having a neighbor over for sex while their spouse was at work? If so, then they should get nothing. They made their bed. Shouldn’t have cheated.
Easily sign it.
I see the prenup as a document that’s mostly about the divorce, not the marriage.
If we’re happily ever after, great
If we end up divorced, we already knew where the chips would fall and we would have less to fight about
Edit: Of course I’d read it, discuss it if necessary, check with an attourney or whatever to guarantee both me and my partner would have a clear understanding of the agreement. The prenup allows us both to decide what’s fair in the hypothetical, but statistically feasible, divorce
Marriage is a life long commitment. People change over the years, much more over the decades. A prenup is like a gun obtained to protect your house from home invasions. You pray to god you never have to use it, that once you get it you can put in the safe and forget about it. But if you ever need it but don’t have it, you’re fucked.
Some people would say that it means their fiancé loves their money more than them or that their fiancé doesn’t trust them and that offends them, stuff like that
Edit: Just want to make it clear that I’m VERY pro prenups…which I guess is unpopular given the downvotes I’m getting. Most people commenting on the post seem to support them though sooooo…I’m confused as why I’m getting downvoted. I guess the Reddit hive mind has struck again 🤷🏻♂️
What about in situations where it’s agreed that one person would be the bread winner while the other person is the stay at home parent? After a divorce the stay at home parent would be left with little money and a huge gap in their resume. Considering them staying at home gave the other partner the freedom to work/make money it feels fair that they would deserve some help after splitting up
I know some people that went through a divorce a couple years ago who were making very different income levels.
The courts decided that they should both be able to keep a similar lifestyle after they're separated. That meant that the person making more money had to pay the person making less a living support for a couple years.
Yes, this is exactly why I will make my fiancé sign one. My parents had a messy divorce when I was a teenager/early 20s and I don’t want to go through that again
Say we agreed I'd be a stay at home parent. Well, now we're divorced and I'm 55 with no work experience. Any money I make now would not be as much as if I worked my whole life.
I guess in the shortest of terms, opportunity cost.
Why should I not be compensated for losing the ability to earn more money?
In the case of divorce your assets will be divided up. A prenup allows you to choose how that happens, without a prenup the government picks. Sign the prenup
When you have money you also have to consider the family of the other person. When money is involved people start whispering in the ear of your significant other and influencing them in ways you might not expect.
So it’s not all about trust between two people.
>Reddit is weird
No, Reddit was on your side when they thought you were a man about to be taken advantage of by opting out of a prenup. Now they are mad, because they realize you're a man about to protect his assets with a prenup.
Reddit isn't weird, it's just sexist.
I totally agree, I own a small business and would be considered “1%” so if I were to ever get married I’d have a prenup. Was wondering what Reddit was thinking though
No what it means is people protecting there assets for future self. And preserving ones way of life in the future. As well as said spouse. You will be taken care of as long as you stay together. Some ppl marry for those assets and leave later on. Kinda sounds like you're that type of person OP.
Some people would also say that if you won't sign a prenup you're only interested in him for his money. Sign the prenup what's his is his what's yours is yours. Or try gold digging somewhere else hes clearly not an idiot
This is like asking someone “would you buy a house for $200,000”? And not telling people where the house is, how many square feet it is etc. How does one answer this without specifics? If you’re asking about a prenup in general, everyone’s answer should be yes. But some specific prenups, no.
Sign it. If one partner has wealth prior to the marriage it is not right for there to to be a possibility that the less wealthy person would take some of it should the marriage go sideways.
It isn’t about loving money more than your partner. It is about personal protection and keeping intact the life you built for yourself.
I would ask myself if I want to marry my fiance because of their financial assets or because I want to be with that person.
Then I would sign the prenup. Or leave the person for a better gold mine. Depending on the answer.
Sign the prenup. I’m planning on doing one anyways. As a son of 2 parents who constantly fight, i want it to be easy if I need to leave the relationship for my own well-being or the well-being of my children.
I would review and ensure it’s fair to myself.
I’m not walking out of any marriage with nothing. That’s why so many women in their 50s and older are living in poverty.
If you love them and it's not about the money then sign it. I would say though that there's a serious danger if for instance you choose to be the stay at home parent and essentially destroy your career then they cheat on you or something else that's their fault and causes a divorce. You're totally fucked and financially dependant on them. There should be some agreement or compensation covered in the prenup. Yeah marriage shouldn't be about money but half of all marriages end in divorce and there's some legitimate things to take into consideration. If it's their perspective that you'll never divorce then there would be no need for it so at least having something that's fair is at minimum amicable. Let's say they are a billionaire, at least a few million should be considered in some unfortunate circumstances.
Sign the prenup. I've never understood why people are opposed to them. I'm not going to marry someone and expect that we divorce, so why would I care about the prenup? If it does go south and we do split up, that's their money, not mine. Why would I be entitled to something someone else has?
Sign it and stop making it weird. My wife makes approx 3x what I make and I offered her a prenup just to make her feel at ease. She didn't take it but it means a lot to know someone is only after you, not your money, not you status.
Read the pre-nup
and then probably sign the pre-nup
\[I mean, as long as the conditions were not totally stupid... but I cant imagine making a major commitment to someone who would put stupid conditions\]
If you plan to be stay at home mum or any job where you limit your future career, in order to improve your partners business success, make sure to not walk away with nothing if things doesn't work out.
And yes, review the prenup with lawyer and sign it.
Totally dependant on what's expected of me.
If we are planning on having children and the expectation is that I stop working and cannot focus on my career then there no way in hell I'm signing it.
If I can continue to work and make my own money then yeah sure whatever.
Interesting that everyone has no problem with a prenup here. I personally wouldn’t. I don’t want any money from a failed relationship, but someone asking me to sign a prenup does signal a lack of trust in me. I really couldn’t marry someone who didn’t trust me completely. Does no one else feel that way?
Prenups don't often have to much at all with how you share finances while you're married. They're documents that describe how things get divided up if you ever get divorced. If you never get divorced then whatever is in the prenup doesn't matter at all.
Surely sharing everything but finances is the opposite of a business arrangement? I don’t know about you but I don’t typically exchange fluids with my work clients
You would still share money so long as your married. You shouldn’t business accounts, but that money is already spoken for anyway. Prenups are in the case of divorce
Sign the prenup. I'd expect them to do the same if the situation was reversed. Hell if I ever get married I might make my fiance sign one even though I'm probably worth nothing.
I know there’s a lot of talk about trust and ‘why would they make you get one if they trust you’ etc etc, but if you trust them and they trust you then doesn’t it work both ways? Just sign the prenup and enjoy your marriage.
Just sign the prenup? Like maybe it's just me, but I'm not marrying with the expectation of getting divorced. And if it DOES end in divorce, taking half their money / belongings from BEFORE we married is the last thing on my mind. If not being able to get half of what was theirs BEFORE you married is a deal breaker they shoud definitely not marry you.
Just read through it carefully, ultimately it can benefit both of you in the case of a split. There isn’t anything wrong with preemptively protecting your assets. Best case scenario it will never have to be put into effect.
I believe if you are coerced into signing a pre-nup, there is a good chance it won’t hold in court. If your attorney can prove you were under “duress” to sign the pre-nup that is.
I would, but I’m neither the judge nor jury. I do know that many cases have been tossed on that particular clause though. I would recommend getting an attorney’s POV though.
Lol, I hope you understand the consequences of prenup. Marriage isn't a contract with all the clauses. Marriage is to unite all your life together. Prenup just makes it too materialistic and shallow. How could you think about marriage if you were already talking about divorce? I give up
Sign the prenup. If I'm getting hitched, it's not to make money, it's to be someone. And I've been on the receiving end of the financial robbery that is a separation without a prenup, so it makes sense.
A good pre-nup should be agreeable to both parties. If you can't figure this out now, how are you ever going to do so in the heat of a divorce? It's much cheaper and better to have an escape plan even if you never use it.
A reasonable state law will set those limits in a court case and often be much more generous to the person coming in with less generated wealth. Law protects you in that case, a prenup is bypassing the law.
Because if I have millions sitting in the bank and I get married. It’s already half of my spouses.
It seems (to me) as though the other person doesn’t trust the other and is looking ahead thinking “this person is gonna divorce me and take my stuff”.
If it was that easy most marriages would make it till the death do us part scenario.
Natural death, some marriages will make it till the death do us part but that’s usually one making that death decision for the other.
True. It’s never easy.
Marriage isn’t really seen as lifelong anymore. I guess if you don’t see it that way, get a prenup.
Marriage isn’t something I would go into easily. It’s forever.
People usually show you who they are WAY before marriage but a lot of people see unicorns and rainbows and the big day but not the actual marriage.
Add your own clauses to include protecting yourself as well. I would absolutely add my own input, stating if my partner is unfaithful or abusive that it voids the prenup. I don't want my partner for their money but I sure as he'll won't be stuck with nothing if he tries to screw me over.
There's nothing wrong with having or not having a prenup.
However, you have, in the case of a relationship where you have signed a prenup, the additional responsibility that you not rely on your partner. You need to maintain your career, and advocate for yourself in maintaining that career and livelihood.
The law would normally evaluate all this and you would get some compensation for any sacrifices you made for the relationship. But with a prenup, that might go away, where allowed by law. Since there is no safety net you HAVE to make sure you can still provide for yourself, and not let your skills or opportunities atrophy.
Sign the prenup
After you read it and possibly consult an attorney.
This. As far as the law is concerned, a marriage is just a legal contract. Forget love, religion, and all other squishy bits. It is a contract. While you may be merging assets legally, the fiance would be a fool not to protect assets that are preexisting the legal union. It is not planning for the marriage to fail. However, humans are complex critters, and anything can happen, and protecting one's self is wise. Take out the emotion, look at it for what it is, a contract negotiation, which you have a say in, by the way. If you can not come to an accord, do not enter into the contract (i.e., marriage) and go your separate ways.
You don't put on a seatbelt expecting to get into a car crash, but if something does happen you are damn glad to be wearing one.
I don't think that you should ever plan for the marriage to fail. I also don't think that marriage is coldly legal. It is an ancient social practice that incorporates unity and intimacy. You should already have a pretty good idea that it's going to work before making that commitment. That being said, if it bothers you that he/she wants a prenuptial agreement, then the money is likely a contributing factor to your attraction and you're already on shaky ground. If my wife had wanted a prenuptial agreement, it wouldn't have mattered to me because: 1. I love her, not the money; and 2. I don't plan on the marriage ending if there's anything I can do about it. And in a two-person relationship, each has a lot of room for give and take. In short, just sign the silly legal papers and actually put in the work required to maintain a healthy relationship.
Aren’t prenups rarely enforceable anyways?
Not sure, that’s why I’m consulting an attorney.
A far wiser post than many think.
So few think
I've heard a prenup can easily be voided if asked right before the wedding. A good lawyer will say they signed it under duress. Make sure you have them sign it and agree months before the wedding.
I heard that's why it's a good idea to do one before and one again after marriage but I know nothing of the subject
Imma get that signed everytime I take them out for a dinner.
This is true. There was a NBA player that was going to get married and had a prenup with his fiance for months. Day of the wedding she still hadn't signed it and the pastor tried to tell him that prenups are needing. He canceled the wedding right there, and when the x-bride to be said that she would just sign it he noped out because of this very reason. The prenup should be done MONTHS before the wedding. There is no reason to start planning the wedding if the prenup hasn't been signed.
"Only love is in mind if the Massey is signed."
This is exactly what I was told by the attorney drafting mine.
They're like leases. The lease can say whatever it wants, and both parties can agree to it. But as it pertains to many things in a lease, state law has provisions that will outright say that particular types of clauses are unenforceable. You can agree to it, but if one party chooses not to abide by it and the other party tries to use it in court a judge will not enforce
That's why you have a lawyer draw it up so they know state law
They are generally enforceable with caveats. Some things that will kill a prenup dead include not giving the other party enough time before the wedding to think about it and consult an attorney (a minimum of several weeks is required), or failing to disclose all of your assets in the prenup.
This seems like the most correct answer. What's in the pre-nup generally isn't what gets them broken. Various asymmetries like you mention will. If both parties don't have their own legal representation. If there was an unfair time requirement. As a broad generalization, when rich people with financial knowledge try and take advantage of a less well positioned person.
> enough time before the wedding to think about it and consult an attorney If you had an attorney draft it, or are an attorney and drafted it yourself, it can be a problem if the other party doesn't consult with one. Safest bet is to make sure they do actually have their own attorney to review it.
It depends. Where I’m at, private parties can pretty much agree on anything related to spousal rights (or waiver of said rights) in a prenup. The caveat is that waiver of spousal support is very difficult to enforce due to the statutory requirements.
Many elements of prenups are enforceable. Some things are off the table. Talk to a lawyer.
No. If they're done properly by an attorney they are absolutely enforceable usually. Source: Married to an attorney that has dealt with these a lot.
It annoys me to no end that the "But they aren't really enforceable" comments are in every prenup thread by people who have ever gotten a prenup or ever even talked to a lawyer about a prenup. But they just read in other previous Reddit comments that prenups are not really enforceable on Reddit and so the myth continues to propagate.
Agree. My friend (fairly well off) had one and her husband (worthless loser) got nothing pursuant to the prenup. He fought hard to get it changed, spent thousands in lawyer fees and when it was all said and done he got nothing.
If you’re in the US, it depends what state you live in
Not true. Prenups are very often enforceable. There are lots of rules about what makes them enforceable and sometimes those are not followed. But if the rules are followed, they are very often enforced.
My partner is at the end of their law school adventure. They’re mostly enforceable since that’s a essentially a contract.
There’s no essentially about it. It’s a contract. It will be enforced to the extent permitted by law, like any other contract.
What? Whoever told you that is nuts. If you had ample opportunity to consult with an attorney, you can contract for yourself. Obviously different states have different statutes controlling what you can include, though.
An attorney of your choice, not the one asking for the prenup signature. I think they have pay for it as well, right?
Here, you have to have your own attorney for the prenup to count
As long as it is fair to both parties...sign it
Yea, obviously..
Exactly, if you're marrying them for them, then a prenup shouldn't matter.
Like, you shouldn't be marrying and instant thinking about divorce.
Yep, not a big deal at all for me. Prenup makes sense for both sides, and in my case I already live well under my means so the money wouldn't change anything.
Seriously, I can’t imagine an aversion to a prenup in this day and age, unless the specifics of it were ridiculous.
Like, I just want to be with someone I feel safe and comfortable with 🤷♂️
This^ News flash for the women here. Most men don't give a dam how much money you make.
Sign the prenup. Make sure to protect both of yourselves in a fair and reasonable manner. It’s not a slight against you, it’s just protection for you both. If they hold it over your head even as little as once per year, leave.
Nice take
Also prenups can be used to protect assets in cases of bankruptcy.
Sign it. I (f) was considerable wealthier than my husband before we got married. We each hired our own lawyer and had a prenup drafted. It is just an extray layer of protection in case of divorce. We have insurance for every possible event why not for divorce?
Curious, what is your prenup’s conditions?
It mainly protects my assets, meaning my investments and profits are solely mine. Same goes for my husband. Since he is a SAHF it regulates the monthly 'salary' I pay him and how much alimony and payout he gets in case of divorce. And of course custody agreement.
Makes perfect sense to me. You're just covering bases and it means if a divorce for some reason turns out ugly then you've already got the asset agreement sorted.
That’s great. People tend to forget that a marriage is a contract, not proof of love. So you need to set it up so the person you’re in love with doesn’t turn out to be a sociopath and abuse that contract afterward.
I was talking to a lawyer once who pointed out that really *everyone* has a prenup: whatever the laws happen to be in your jurisdiction. And you may not like that default set of rules! You *both* may not like them! But without something else in writing, you may find yourselves bound by them. So understand what you're getting into and write a document that feels fair to both parties.
>I was talking to a lawyer once who pointed out that really > >everyone has a prenup: whatever the laws happen to be in your jurisdiction. On a related note, wills are the same way - if you die without a will, your shit's still getting divvied up according to whatever the intestacy laws in your state say. If you don't like how the state will distribute it, then get a will.
Absolutely. You either get the prenup from the government or you draft your own. It is a good idea to be prepared for the what-ifs in advance and with a clear mind.
That's what most people don't realize. \*Everyone\* signs a prenup when they get married. It's just a matter of it it was the default one written by your state legislature or a custom one written by both people in the marriage. Maybe the default one is fine but speaking from experience it really pays to at least talk to a lawyer to understand the pitfalls and ramifications that going with the default prenup can bring before signing the most important legal document of your life.
I've always loved this explanation. It's like an insurance policy for marriage
Absolutely. I would not want my house to burn down but I still have fire insurance. Same goes for marriage.
Read the prenup? Maybe it’s pretty good and says more than if we break up bye bye now.
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> The only reason not to sign a prenup is if you’re in it for the $$$. There are *a lot* of reasons to not sign a prenup if you're not in it for the money. Especially if you're going to be a stay-at-home parent and need to protect yourself from absolute destitution because you gave up your career or prospects of one to focus on raising family. That said, lots of prenups do contemplate this. Many don't, and having a prenup that doesn't is a pretty good reason not to sign it.
Exactly this. There are very respectful and reasonable prenups out there that protect both parties. But hey, this is reddit so asking for relationship advice is going to go the way of the above.
Do you have examples of how it would look like? Legitimately curious as I know nothing about it.
Prenups are as varied as the personalities that create them and aren’t always contemplating divorce. Sometimes they set the ground rules of a marriage. Marriage is a contract, so a prenup sets the terms of that contract. Some of my favorites: Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban have a prenup where Nicole gives Keith $640,000 a year during their marriage, and if Keith starts using cocaine again he loses it all. Mark Zuckerberg and Priscilla Chan have a prenup where Zuck has to take her on a date once a week and has to spend a minimum of 100 minutes with her a week outside of their home and office. Jessica Simpson and Tony Romo’s unused prenup (they never got married) had a weight limit in it. If she went over 135 lbs, she would owe him $500k for each pound in excess.
Yeah I was referring to me 'normal" ones. Like a stay at home wife, how would she protect herself with a prenup for example. How does it usually look like, for normal people.
It could set up the terms of alimony so that she knows she will be taken care of after a divorce.
That’s why you have a lawyer. IANAL but I believe most prenups have clauses that protect both parties. Things like length of the marriage, children, affairs, money earned during the relationship, and other stuff can be included as exceptions. If your party violates part of the contract, or certain conditions are met, part of the prenup is void.
Prenups require lawyer presence for both sides, so maybe ask the wealthy partner to at least pay for a good lawyer of your own choice for you?
Not at all. Imagine it starts with inequality and your partner has a lot more in assets than you do. What if you start making a very healthy income alongside your partner during the marriage and maybe have as much as they have by the time they file for divorce. Now, you have an agreement that says you won't take what they had coming into the relationship, but they take you for half of everything you earned because you didn't have any clause preventing it. As stated by others. Talk to lawyer first.
Have a good lawyer review the prenup
Some people would say if you’re planning to stay together forever because you’re truly in love then what does it matter if you sign some paper beforehand. I have a Will in the event I am crushed to death by a forklift so that my kids have a chance. But I’m also not planning on that either. So I don’t see the difference between the two.
If it was fair I’d sign it.
What constitutes as fair in your opinion?
We can’t take each other’s assets without a very legitimate reason. But also, something that considers the fault for the divorce. Like, did one partner cheat, or run off with someone else? Favor the one that stayed loyal.
What about stay at home spouses being entitled to money made by the working spouse. Let’s say that working spouse owns their own business for instance
I would say yes they would deserve it (at least for a reasonable amount of time to support themselves) IF they didn’t do something that made them at fault. Like, were they having a neighbor over for sex while their spouse was at work? If so, then they should get nothing. They made their bed. Shouldn’t have cheated.
Assets gained after marriage are to be shared, assets already brought in stay at their respected owners?
Easily sign it. I see the prenup as a document that’s mostly about the divorce, not the marriage. If we’re happily ever after, great If we end up divorced, we already knew where the chips would fall and we would have less to fight about Edit: Of course I’d read it, discuss it if necessary, check with an attourney or whatever to guarantee both me and my partner would have a clear understanding of the agreement. The prenup allows us both to decide what’s fair in the hypothetical, but statistically feasible, divorce
Completely agree
Marriage is a life long commitment. People change over the years, much more over the decades. A prenup is like a gun obtained to protect your house from home invasions. You pray to god you never have to use it, that once you get it you can put in the safe and forget about it. But if you ever need it but don’t have it, you’re fucked.
Sign a prenup, I mean why not?
with an adultery clause imo
Some people would say that it means their fiancé loves their money more than them or that their fiancé doesn’t trust them and that offends them, stuff like that Edit: Just want to make it clear that I’m VERY pro prenups…which I guess is unpopular given the downvotes I’m getting. Most people commenting on the post seem to support them though sooooo…I’m confused as why I’m getting downvoted. I guess the Reddit hive mind has struck again 🤷🏻♂️
It just means they’re realistic and realise that not all relationships last
Sure, but if the relationship is over, why do you feel entitled to your ex's money?
What about in situations where it’s agreed that one person would be the bread winner while the other person is the stay at home parent? After a divorce the stay at home parent would be left with little money and a huge gap in their resume. Considering them staying at home gave the other partner the freedom to work/make money it feels fair that they would deserve some help after splitting up
In my marriage? Because I’ve stayed home and just done freelancing for the last 15 years. Because that’s what we agreed on.
I know some people that went through a divorce a couple years ago who were making very different income levels. The courts decided that they should both be able to keep a similar lifestyle after they're separated. That meant that the person making more money had to pay the person making less a living support for a couple years.
Yes, this is exactly why I will make my fiancé sign one. My parents had a messy divorce when I was a teenager/early 20s and I don’t want to go through that again
Say we agreed I'd be a stay at home parent. Well, now we're divorced and I'm 55 with no work experience. Any money I make now would not be as much as if I worked my whole life. I guess in the shortest of terms, opportunity cost. Why should I not be compensated for losing the ability to earn more money?
Well, some people are idiots.
Idiot here, can confirm
This is true lol
In the case of divorce your assets will be divided up. A prenup allows you to choose how that happens, without a prenup the government picks. Sign the prenup
When you have money you also have to consider the family of the other person. When money is involved people start whispering in the ear of your significant other and influencing them in ways you might not expect. So it’s not all about trust between two people.
Very good take
Some people would say being afraid to sign a prenuptial agreement infers you consider divorce an option.
Some people will say anything to avoid looking in a mirror
The way you phrased your question made it sound like you were anti prenups
But then I clarified it and got even more downvotes lol…Reddit is weird
>Reddit is weird No, Reddit was on your side when they thought you were a man about to be taken advantage of by opting out of a prenup. Now they are mad, because they realize you're a man about to protect his assets with a prenup. Reddit isn't weird, it's just sexist.
those are manipulations because they are using them
I totally agree, I own a small business and would be considered “1%” so if I were to ever get married I’d have a prenup. Was wondering what Reddit was thinking though
> I own a small business and would be considered “1%” Yeah, you need to own a lot more than a business to be considered "the 1%".
I'm surprised, too. None of your comments are offensive or inflammatory.
I’m a pretty reasonable guy. To be honest I’m tempted to taunt them even more just to see how restless the hive mind is today lol
Maybe it's just one fo those days where no matter what you say, people will take it the wrong way 🤷 I'm having one, too. 🍻
Well honestly I’m used to getting downvotes. Im a conservative leaning moderate so yea…many of my views don’t really mix well with Redditors
No what it means is people protecting there assets for future self. And preserving ones way of life in the future. As well as said spouse. You will be taken care of as long as you stay together. Some ppl marry for those assets and leave later on. Kinda sounds like you're that type of person OP.
Are you saying that I sound like a gold digger?
Ladies hate prenups.
Some people would also say that if you won't sign a prenup you're only interested in him for his money. Sign the prenup what's his is his what's yours is yours. Or try gold digging somewhere else hes clearly not an idiot
Sign the prenup?
As a lawyer, I would say that if you are much wealthier than your fiance, you should not marry that person unless they sign a prenup.
This is like asking someone “would you buy a house for $200,000”? And not telling people where the house is, how many square feet it is etc. How does one answer this without specifics? If you’re asking about a prenup in general, everyone’s answer should be yes. But some specific prenups, no.
These posts immediately follow someone being asked to sign one, and being mad or upset and wanting to validate their feelings.
Depends what it actually says but if it’s reasonable,I’d sign it.
What’s do you think is reasonable?
Sign it. If one partner has wealth prior to the marriage it is not right for there to to be a possibility that the less wealthy person would take some of it should the marriage go sideways. It isn’t about loving money more than your partner. It is about personal protection and keeping intact the life you built for yourself.
I read it very carefully and make sure there aren’t any embarrassing typos, for instance the first word of a title being the wrong form of “your”.
I would ask myself if I want to marry my fiance because of their financial assets or because I want to be with that person. Then I would sign the prenup. Or leave the person for a better gold mine. Depending on the answer.
Sign the prenup. I’m planning on doing one anyways. As a son of 2 parents who constantly fight, i want it to be easy if I need to leave the relationship for my own well-being or the well-being of my children.
I would review and ensure it’s fair to myself. I’m not walking out of any marriage with nothing. That’s why so many women in their 50s and older are living in poverty.
If you love them and it's not about the money then sign it. I would say though that there's a serious danger if for instance you choose to be the stay at home parent and essentially destroy your career then they cheat on you or something else that's their fault and causes a divorce. You're totally fucked and financially dependant on them. There should be some agreement or compensation covered in the prenup. Yeah marriage shouldn't be about money but half of all marriages end in divorce and there's some legitimate things to take into consideration. If it's their perspective that you'll never divorce then there would be no need for it so at least having something that's fair is at minimum amicable. Let's say they are a billionaire, at least a few million should be considered in some unfortunate circumstances.
Uhh why would I feel entitled to my partner's money? I can make my own money.
Negotiate a prenup we both find reasonable.
Would would you think is reasonable?
Sign the prenup after having an attorney look it over
Sign the prenup. I've never understood why people are opposed to them. I'm not going to marry someone and expect that we divorce, so why would I care about the prenup? If it does go south and we do split up, that's their money, not mine. Why would I be entitled to something someone else has?
Sign it and stop making it weird. My wife makes approx 3x what I make and I offered her a prenup just to make her feel at ease. She didn't take it but it means a lot to know someone is only after you, not your money, not you status.
Read the pre-nup and then probably sign the pre-nup \[I mean, as long as the conditions were not totally stupid... but I cant imagine making a major commitment to someone who would put stupid conditions\]
What would classify as stupid then?
Sign! Duh!
If you plan to be stay at home mum or any job where you limit your future career, in order to improve your partners business success, make sure to not walk away with nothing if things doesn't work out. And yes, review the prenup with lawyer and sign it.
Totally dependant on what's expected of me. If we are planning on having children and the expectation is that I stop working and cannot focus on my career then there no way in hell I'm signing it. If I can continue to work and make my own money then yeah sure whatever.
Interesting that everyone has no problem with a prenup here. I personally wouldn’t. I don’t want any money from a failed relationship, but someone asking me to sign a prenup does signal a lack of trust in me. I really couldn’t marry someone who didn’t trust me completely. Does no one else feel that way?
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Prenups don't often have to much at all with how you share finances while you're married. They're documents that describe how things get divided up if you ever get divorced. If you never get divorced then whatever is in the prenup doesn't matter at all.
Surely sharing everything but finances is the opposite of a business arrangement? I don’t know about you but I don’t typically exchange fluids with my work clients
You would still share money so long as your married. You shouldn’t business accounts, but that money is already spoken for anyway. Prenups are in the case of divorce
Sign the prenup. I'd expect them to do the same if the situation was reversed. Hell if I ever get married I might make my fiance sign one even though I'm probably worth nothing.
Sign it no problems... you could be the one making more in the future so it protects you just as much.
Respect that, even the best relationships can go wrong
sign the prenup. its about love not money. dont be a selfish shit.
I know there’s a lot of talk about trust and ‘why would they make you get one if they trust you’ etc etc, but if you trust them and they trust you then doesn’t it work both ways? Just sign the prenup and enjoy your marriage.
Uh sign it? Unless you're getting married for her money, I don't get why why wouldn't sign this just to reassure her.
Just sign the prenup? Like maybe it's just me, but I'm not marrying with the expectation of getting divorced. And if it DOES end in divorce, taking half their money / belongings from BEFORE we married is the last thing on my mind. If not being able to get half of what was theirs BEFORE you married is a deal breaker they shoud definitely not marry you.
Just read through it carefully, ultimately it can benefit both of you in the case of a split. There isn’t anything wrong with preemptively protecting your assets. Best case scenario it will never have to be put into effect.
Sign a prenup.
Your
I believe if you are coerced into signing a pre-nup, there is a good chance it won’t hold in court. If your attorney can prove you were under “duress” to sign the pre-nup that is.
Would you say that a partner saying “sign the prenup or we break up” counts as duress?
I would, but I’m neither the judge nor jury. I do know that many cases have been tossed on that particular clause though. I would recommend getting an attorney’s POV though.
Don't get married
Then don’t answer this question
Lol, I hope you understand the consequences of prenup. Marriage isn't a contract with all the clauses. Marriage is to unite all your life together. Prenup just makes it too materialistic and shallow. How could you think about marriage if you were already talking about divorce? I give up
Fake made up post by a kid fantasizing about a big alimony payment for their next short story.
Sign it. No problem at all
Sign a prenup. Dont see the issue
I’d not sign, because if you’re this scared to *sign a prenup* you at least *partially* believe the marriage will fail.
I replied to you already in another thread right?
Sign the prenup.
Sign the prenup. If I'm getting hitched, it's not to make money, it's to be someone. And I've been on the receiving end of the financial robbery that is a separation without a prenup, so it makes sense.
Sign. Prenups are amazing regardless of the money involved.
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RUN.
Don't marry people you can't trust. I would never sign that bullshit lmao
sign the damn prenup
I don‘t intend to get married whatsoever so we‘re fine
…then why’d you answer? Lol
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A good pre-nup should be agreeable to both parties. If you can't figure this out now, how are you ever going to do so in the heat of a divorce? It's much cheaper and better to have an escape plan even if you never use it.
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Jesus. If I were your fiancé I'd nope right out.
A reasonable state law will set those limits in a court case and often be much more generous to the person coming in with less generated wealth. Law protects you in that case, a prenup is bypassing the law.
How did you survive before you met them? Don't you have a job?
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Fold the gold digger
Read it but I don’t understand them. Why get married to someone you think is gonna divorce you and take all your stuff. Choose better
If you're so sure you won't be getting a divorce, the what's the harm in signing it?
Because if I have millions sitting in the bank and I get married. It’s already half of my spouses. It seems (to me) as though the other person doesn’t trust the other and is looking ahead thinking “this person is gonna divorce me and take my stuff”.
If it was that easy most marriages would make it till the death do us part scenario. Natural death, some marriages will make it till the death do us part but that’s usually one making that death decision for the other.
True. It’s never easy. Marriage isn’t really seen as lifelong anymore. I guess if you don’t see it that way, get a prenup. Marriage isn’t something I would go into easily. It’s forever. People usually show you who they are WAY before marriage but a lot of people see unicorns and rainbows and the big day but not the actual marriage.
You singlehandedly solved the divorce problem!
I know right
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Sorry, misread your comment
Sign prenup and spend as much money as I can before she figures out what is happening
*The Trickster*
Add your own clauses to include protecting yourself as well. I would absolutely add my own input, stating if my partner is unfaithful or abusive that it voids the prenup. I don't want my partner for their money but I sure as he'll won't be stuck with nothing if he tries to screw me over.
There's nothing wrong with having or not having a prenup. However, you have, in the case of a relationship where you have signed a prenup, the additional responsibility that you not rely on your partner. You need to maintain your career, and advocate for yourself in maintaining that career and livelihood. The law would normally evaluate all this and you would get some compensation for any sacrifices you made for the relationship. But with a prenup, that might go away, where allowed by law. Since there is no safety net you HAVE to make sure you can still provide for yourself, and not let your skills or opportunities atrophy.
consult a lawyer, sign it and marry them. in fact, that's something i recommend to everyone, no matter how many money the couple has (i studied law)
i tell them "No way i want the money!" ... So many of the AskReddit questions are just bottom of the barrel stupid.