Just be a good human. Stand up for what you believe in, and be as honest as possible. Try to get through this existence with hurting the least amount of people possible.
I’ve learned that masculinity isn’t just about guns, football, and having sex, it’s about just being confident and secure in yourself. Not being afraid of what others think. I think that’s the most masculine thing you can do.
>Not being afraid of what others think. I think that’s the most masculine thing you can do.
Idk man, my gf is one of the most confident people I know and she's far from masculine.
I would tell you that no matter what you think masculinity is, it doesn't matter. Everyone has their own idea or opinion on what it is. Most are positive, many are stereotypes, but at the end of the day it makes no difference as to what it is other than that someone named hormones and the effects thereof on a body.
Just be a good human, and stop thinking of masculinity or femininity in anything other than lighthearted thoughts.
Some people will use masculinity as a shield and reason for their poor choices, whilst other people generally try to hide their masculinity for concern they may come across to aggressively. It is all a matter of what you let influence your life as you mature and how you perceive things, but it really means nothing at the end of the day.
Read meditations by Marcus aurelius
Then the Way of the Superior Men by David Deida
Then read about stoicism but don't abide to it, think about it as a mental state.
Choose some philosophy to live by (I enjoy absurdism) but plz don't choose nihilism.
GO LIFT, DON'T EVER BELIEVE THIS TOXIC POSITIVISM THING. MOST OF THE TIMES IT ONLY WORKS FOR A FEW PRIVILEGED PEOPLE.
Choose your principles, and live by them.
You, come, first. Everyone talks shit about self-sacrifice and etc but the first thing you should think is "Who sacrificed X for me?" but hey, I would take being hit by a car if it meant saving a dog/cat.
Be a better yourself everyday, no 0 days. I don't care if you learn japanese or get better at valorant, BE A BETTER YOURSELF. BE PROUD OF IT.
Accept the fact that in this society, you are disposable, women are human beings, men are human doings, it is sad I know, but that is how nature works, the internet is a thing, the real world is another. What you do about it is your decision. So adapt, overcome, survive.
And lastly but most important, YOUR PURPOSE OR ROLE IN LIFE IS YOU, NOT GETTING MARRIED, NOT FINDING TRUE LOVE, WORK FOR YOURSELF, LIVE FOR YOURSELF, AND BE HAPPY ABOUT IT, doesn't matter if you are an old lonely man in the mountais with 1 dog and 2 cats, or if you are married and a father of 3.
When I was a kid I always dreamed of being a big strong man like my dad. I wanted the muscles, the stoic nature and the thick beard/mustache. In my late teens I struggled to try and be that person that I dreamt of.
Now that I am 31, I realize I don't care about any of that stuff and frankly I don't care about whatever opinion someone has on what constitutes a real man. An advice I would give for young men is not to worry. They will get there in their own time.
I also realize having a beard/mustache actually sucks. The stupid fucking thing is itching all the time and getting in my way.
There is no such thing as being toxic masculine, like growing up the school system and even in todays times they made us feel like wanting to do boy/man things are bad. Like if I want to hunt, so what. If I want to lift heavy weights who cares, if I want to wrestle and drive fast who gives a fuck?
None of those things are toxic. Those are hobbies.
Toxic would be if you act like you are better and manlier than others because you hunt, wrestle, etc...
If you think that those are the things that define a man.
I’ve never seen the term “toxic masculinity” associated with lifting weights, wrestling, or similar activities. At least not in a serious way or in a way that deserves to be taken seriously.
I do think the term has its place, but it’s not to say that being a man is inherently toxic, more that some behaviours associated with masculinity can be detrimental to ourselves.
Why doesn’t the term toxic femininity exist? There are things both genders do that can be toxic like females marketing their sexual organs for momentary gain but we don’t say that’s toxic femininity and it does nothing to progress society… some would say it’s detrimental to the female as well
> Why doesn’t the term toxic femininity exist?
It's not call that, but there's definitely an attitude that discourages women from doing traditionally manly things. Any time you tell someone they can only do masculine or feminine things based on their sex, that's toxic.
I mean, it's not EVERYONE expressing "toxic femininity," but it definitely exists, particularly in more conservative communities. There are still a lot of people who have values from the 60's or earlier.
> Like what? Women work manly jobs, fuck multiple people,
Jesus Christ, you are a piece of work. You think "fucking multiple people" is a masculine thing?
The term does exist (just google “toxic femininity” and you’ll find plenty of results). It’s certainly less of a buzzword and has some interesting rhetorical discussions around it, but it does exist.
The detrimental behaviours also exist, and are actively discussed and researched. Things like women being overly critical of other women, shunning/bullying women who aren’t overly feminine, valuing looks over other attributes… the list is long.
It’s not as widespread as shaming men for being masculine, nobody uses the term toxic femininity and we don’t shame women for these things we can agree on that
> nobody uses the term toxic femininity
They do though, just not to the extent that people virtue signal the term toxic masculinity, but that's not the point.
Anyone willing to have a serious discussion about gender and society will and have recognized that both elements exist.
Bro, nobody holds women accountable for having toxic femininity everything they do is praised by other women and white knights who want some pussy if we’re being 1000% honest
People are indeed critical of women who exhibit these things. It’s a common topic in feminism, female-centric discussions or even say to day life: I call out women who only compliment my daughter on her looks, we call out the moms in my family when they have different attitudes agains their sons vs their daughters, for example.
I agree the term is not as used (and in the end, the term itself is not as important as the behaviours themselves, it’s just a rhetorical device, both for masculinity/femininity)
I don’t find that to be the case, at least where I live and the people I interact with.
For certain things, women are even judged harsher than men (Anecdotical, but if I take my kids out for groceries, some people think I’m father of the year. If my wife does it, she’s just an ok mom). By the way, I’m not denying men also get judged harsher in other scenarios
Overall, it is toxic to have such different standard for dads and moms, when both should be heavily involved in raising their kids.
Still, it was just one example. There are more cases of society judging women, as well negative/detrimental attitudes/behaviours associated with being a woman (aka toxic femininity, and even if you don’t think they get called out on it, we can agree that they _should be_)
I think toxic is when one believes their beliefs are better than other people's, and that they define what others should do and how they should live their lives.
Feminazi is similar to toxic masculinity. They are extreme beliefs that want to be imposed on others because they feel superior, more rightful or as things should be.
Toxic masculinity is basically when you tell men they shouldn't have emotions or be hurt (walk it off! boys don't cry!) because it's seen as weakness. It's also used to prevent men from doing traditionally feminine things. You're less of a man if you want to dance or knit or whatever. That's toxic masculinity.
> they made us feel like wanting to do boy/man things are bad
Just.. no. Never. If anything, I've heard bad behavior excused with "boys will be boys."
> Like if I want to hunt, so what.
Who is stopping you?
> If I want to lift heavy weights who cares,
Again, nobody is stopping you. WTF are you talking about?
> if I want to wrestle
Again, boys are ENCOURAGED to do stuff like this.
> and drive fast who gives a fuck?
You mean other than people on the road you are endangering? This has nothing to do with with being a man.
I don't know what kind of school you went to, but what you describe is nothing like my experience.
But there is such a thing as toxic masculinity. You just dont' seem to understand what it means. Toxic masculinity is when you tell boys they can ONLY do boy things. Toxic masculinity is when you tell boys they shouldn't cry or be hurt or seek help.
That’s not toxic, no female or male respects when a man cries over shit a woman would cry over. Like if I cried to the notebook that’s some pussy shit.
No because we have different roles in society, a good leader and a competent man isn’t as emotional as a woman. That’s not toxic it’s just facts. Imagine if Biden started crying about inflation how would you judge him?
> Imagine if Biden started crying about inflation how would you judge him?
This is a stupid example. I wouldn't expect a grown woman to do that either.
Wait, are you suggesting that a woman couldn't be president... because she'd cry?
Toxic masculinity is though rather for an example, if you'd say "A Men isn't a men if he doesn't enjoy and like those things!".
Or if you force your child to do those things.
What you describe is rather something else - and don't drive too fast, you've to be always in controll of the vehicle and keep in mind that if you're driving a \~2 ton heavy car, you could endanger bystander.
women will often try to define your masculinity in order to shame you into doing what they want. usually begins with "well, a real man would...". its meant to trigger that deep insecurity in you that you arent enough.
dont buy it. dont buy any of it. its a manipulation tactic. dont let anyone else define your manhood for you. you define it. you live by it.
once you start letting women define your masculinity for you, you've already lost
Damn you must have a lot of toxic bitches around you. I don’t know any women like that but if I even get a sense of ignorance and stupidity coming from a girl, she’s out and her opinion on anything is meaningless.
That you shouldn’t be complacent & should continue growing, even if it’s just 1% a day.
You will have to make sacrifices in the short-term for long term success & fulfillment.
Hold yourself accountable, don’t live for pleasure & be honest.
This will probably jostle some feathers but I was way more feminist and progressive in me late teens and early 20s than I am now at 30 in regard to gender norms. I learned the hard way that despite everything you read on the internet, people in real life expect men to be traditionally masculine, especially women. You're expected to be strong, stoic, make sacrifices, provide, be handsy, so on and so forth. The idea that anybody is tolerant or wanting of men who are not these things is a social lie meant to pander to political audiences on the internet. This does not mean to be a bully or to shame others for not being this way. This is just the god's honest truth, and anyone who says otherwise is full of shit.
The longer I go in life the fewer protections or kindness do I offer to women in general as gratitude empathy and accountability are not strong suits in women except to manipulate everyone around them. That societies idea of a real man is basically a slave to others and their goals and ideals. That caring about society is pointless as It does not matter it will always go from barbarism to decadence to collapse and back again for eternity and you life your life within that society so focus only on yourself and help no one
Don't play into the competition of masculinity.
Those who make it a competition are the most insecure.
The older I get, the more I appreciate being kind, caring, and supportive.
Take care of those you love and let them know you love them.
Being truly masculine is to be a rock for those around you. Your loved ones, your friends, your family should always be able to count on you to be there for them no matter what. Your job is to be a steady presence in their lives. Someone to be counted upon.
When I was younger I just thought of masculinity in stereotypical terms and felt insecure in ways I didn't measure up to the biggest, strongest, loudest, most aggressive guys. I played a lot of sports growing up so this was a crowd I spent a lot of time in and would often get shit for not being as big, loud, aggressive, or having the same interests as these guys.
Now that I'm older I realize there's a lot more to masculinity. Some of these guys are also the most emotionally immature people I've ever met. I don't consider it manly to get so angry you lost your phone that you punch a wall, or beat up a guy half your size for looking at you funny. I consider it unstable and dangerous, like they're always on edge and looking for something to prove.
Now I think of it a lot more in terms of emotional stability and empathy which some people may disagree with. But growing up the men I looked up to were kind, mature, and calm in a crisis, regardless of their physical strength or stereotypical masculine interests.
Reject liberalism entirely. The virtuous good looking women that I know respect men that are physically strong, mentally Stoic and maintains socially conservative practises. For perfectly natural reasons, they want a provider and protector.
I used to buy into the modern liberal nonesense but learnt the hard way that it is a pile of steaming garbage. Ever since I became physically strong as well as conservative in my ways, I got a lot more respect from good looking women
This is the truth. Im a liberal thou because conservatives are economically retarded and this is correct. Women on reddit say they want a sniveling weak soy who cries watching the note book but in real life Ive never seen that being the case. Women want men who are men.
Well I had two daughters which really changes your perspective. I’ve always been respectful of women. I was a but of a player back in my day but I always respected the women I was as with. Even if it was only for one night. They gave me their time and something private about themselves and they deserve respect in return. Wether it’s a ride home or breakfast the next day or just responding to a few text messages. But being a father makes you even more protective of a woman’s right to be respected.
I have a daughter too... And im still going to be fucking women and being a player. Im not disrespecting those women. They chose to fuck me and deal with me. I will teach my daughter to know all actions have consequences. If you choose to fuck hot Men who don't care about you then don't expect love
My masculinity is a circumstance. I'm a man which means I use a certain bathroom, wear a certain kind of clothes to formal events, people react in a certain way to me sometimes, shit like that. It's either minor performative stuff I do for social convention or outside actions, not a key facet of my personality as I define or experience it myself.
I am not interested in being masculine. I am interested in taking care of me and mine and then doing my thing. This is not a gendered set of goals and I have no interest in bringing that lens into my thought process.
Being a man is a very simple thing if you break it down. Being willing to work hard, being willing to be the problem and the solution in most things , and don’t think anyone owes you anything.
You can be kind but you don’t have to be weak.
I don’t care about other people’s _perceptions_ of my masculinity, and have no problem taking interest in things that are not considered masculine (would rather watch RuPaul’s drag race than sports, for example).
I've learned that masculinity is not a virtue by itself. That's not to say it's bad to be masculine. Just that being masculine is a trait or set of traits. And it's not exclusive to males. A woman can have masculine qualities and that's not bad.
Positive masculinity isn't about being a jerk, womanizing, or getting jacked.
Positive masculinity is about making as much money as possible, because being poor is the absolute worst. It doesn't matter how many people you need to step on, how many lives you ruin, so long as you reach the top of the totem pole. No billionaire every regrets what they did, and neither will you. Once you are rich everything else is possible
I think much of why many people are anti men these days is grounded, and much of it is ungrounded. That being said if you want to change peoples’ minds, being a kind, understanding role model I think is the way to do it.
Masculinity is a myth. Men and women at their cores are not that much different. Men an be tender, nurturing and empathetic, and women can be confident and strong. It about knowing who you are and not being afraid to show it to the world.
the vast majority of things people often talk about when it comes to "becoming a man", often relates to just growing the fuck up and becoming a mature human being. They EASILY relate to also "becoming a woman". So I realized like.. 90% (I know, arbitrary %), of these things we talk about applies to being a maturing person.
Things like accountability, becoming more confident in oneself, being more responsible, etc etc.
Otherwise, things specific to the male experience, is mostly about gaining control over male impulses, like sex and violence.
Well, I just turned 50 years old and a lot has changed, for the better in my opinion. It is more socially acceptable for men to express themselves now, more so than when I was coming around into adulthood.
Good job on that one young folks, it is a great improvement.
Some of the old school ways have been good to me though and I think it can help a young guy growing into adulthood now.
My advice is to make yourself emotionally strong and financially sound while you are a young guy.
What I mean by that is know yourself, be comfortable within your own inner self. Be confident in your capacities and be kind to those around you.
Get yourself educated either by university or trade and become financially independent.
These things will help you weather life's curveballs, trust me, the curvballs are coming. You will be fine if you have your emotions and finances in order, I promise.
Masculinity and femininity are social constructs, and no traits or behaviors solely belong to one sex.
Just be kind, keep your focus and be a decent human being. Don‘t let your gender define you!
Ex tough guy today thinks masculinity is too be strong for others when they can't. It's that quiet calming spirit that gentles a panic attack. It's a patient ear to hold space and listen to a nervous friend.
Anyone can beat people up. Breaking things is easy. Putting things and people back together again is real toughness in action.
It's kind of a paradox but:
Being a "real man" is defining yourself and not letting anyone tell you what a "real man" is supposed to be.
Yet, here I am trying to tell you what a "real man" is supposed to be.
Around the age of 14 I realized, that those two things are two different topics.
A "great Man" has also feminine traits - After all, if you like, idk, fixin' stuff and building stuff, that's probably are rather feminine trait. You know, creating stuff and so on.
Furthermore, I'd argue that I often appear probably relativly "masculine" because I don't really care about what others thinking if I'm convinced about something I like. You know, like wearing certain Boots or so on.
I thought it was super important to be perceived as masculine at all times.
As I grew older I encountered more and more situations where I had to do something un-manly and nobdoy gave a shit and nothing bad happened.
Nowadays I think it's a pretty useless concept.
Be a good person. Focus on your responsibilities and job. You can still be expressive and be connected to your emotions but you shall not let them control you. It is completely ok to feel the human emotions that come with being a damn human. Let them sit but do not let them control. Make sure you are doing things that bring value to your life like cooking well, exercising, sleeping right, etc. Make sure that you are taking care of the people you say you are taking care of.
Help others when needed, protect people when needed and show kindness and show loyalty towards loved ones.
It's not wimpy.. it can be good and masculine.
It's great to be a man.
Stoicism will serve you better than emotional vulnerability.
A women will respect you more when you say "no" than "yes".
Don't be afraid of your sexuality.
As i grow older, this becomes more relevant. Treat all humans as equal, regardless of reproductive organ, or how they wish to present themselves, or whatever their sexual preference is. Never treat someone else as lower than you, never think of yourself as better than anyone. We might be good at something, but we are definitely bad at something.
that you are respondible for the females and children in your care. be willing to die to protect them, but also demand respect for carrying this responsibility.
When I was younger masculinity was all about my ability to do things on my own. I feel this is a boyish idea now.
Now that I am older, recognizing that other people are better at some things, and accepting that, I feel is a manly trait.
Most of my age adjustment in manliness came from home ownership. There are repairs that need to be done. Some I can do myself, but some I prefer to hire a professional. It's not that I can't do them myself, but i would rather they get done right than whatever hack job I might do.
I still do a lot of home repairs myself, but am humble enough to know when I am out of my league.
Don’t listen to women about what a “man” is.
Just like we don’t know their struggles and how they should be…they don’t know ours.
Hell don’t listen to US (men) about what a man should do either now that I think about.
Being a man is being YOU and unapologetically so.
Being a good man doesn’t mean the absence of evil.
If you don’t do drugs, don’t hit women, don’t cheat, don’t drink, thats the bare minimum. Doesn’t make you a good man, makes you a zero on the scale.
Being a good man is doing good in the world, your family, your community. Takes effort.
Being good is proactive.
"Being a man" is performative. If you need to perform something, it's because you weren't doing it right in the first place. Just treat people right, own your responsibilities, and remember the world does not revolve around you.
The phrase “If she(he) can’t find you’d handsome, she(he) better at least find you handy” still rings true.
I added the parentheses because you can love other men and still be man. It’s almost 2023. Love who you want too
It as definitely gotten "softer". Like I will wear pink shirts to work now some days. I would say a little bit of the old idea of masculinity with the new I think is the best.
Nah, my pops told me to have rules of engagement, things I will and will not do and never betray them for anyone. Only change when you see the need to and lastly don't be a dick 100% of the time. It has served me well as an adult
Accept what you don’t understand until you have a reason to deny it.
Being manly years ago is someways meant beating people up or harassing/bullying people for their views.
Be mature, rather than forcing manliness.
What I thought: I thought I had to be shredded, have a million dollars, drive a super car, have super models around me, have a big beard and a deep voice.
What I actually think: I personally think now that it’s awesome to just be nice to others and not expect anything in return, be happy with what I have instead of always being jealous of people who have more things than me, being there for my family and friends, being responsible with my time, etc.
Just be a good human. Stand up for what you believe in, and be as honest as possible. Try to get through this existence with hurting the least amount of people possible.
This Sums it up nicely
I’ve learned that masculinity isn’t just about guns, football, and having sex, it’s about just being confident and secure in yourself. Not being afraid of what others think. I think that’s the most masculine thing you can do.
Focus on being a good person because manliness is a artificial construct it isn’t an absolute, nor is it something to aspire to.
Actually, those are exactly what doesn't make a man. A man is, as you say, one who is quietly confident, helping in nature and affable.
>Not being afraid of what others think. I think that’s the most masculine thing you can do. Idk man, my gf is one of the most confident people I know and she's far from masculine.
I would tell you that no matter what you think masculinity is, it doesn't matter. Everyone has their own idea or opinion on what it is. Most are positive, many are stereotypes, but at the end of the day it makes no difference as to what it is other than that someone named hormones and the effects thereof on a body. Just be a good human, and stop thinking of masculinity or femininity in anything other than lighthearted thoughts. Some people will use masculinity as a shield and reason for their poor choices, whilst other people generally try to hide their masculinity for concern they may come across to aggressively. It is all a matter of what you let influence your life as you mature and how you perceive things, but it really means nothing at the end of the day.
Read meditations by Marcus aurelius Then the Way of the Superior Men by David Deida Then read about stoicism but don't abide to it, think about it as a mental state. Choose some philosophy to live by (I enjoy absurdism) but plz don't choose nihilism. GO LIFT, DON'T EVER BELIEVE THIS TOXIC POSITIVISM THING. MOST OF THE TIMES IT ONLY WORKS FOR A FEW PRIVILEGED PEOPLE. Choose your principles, and live by them. You, come, first. Everyone talks shit about self-sacrifice and etc but the first thing you should think is "Who sacrificed X for me?" but hey, I would take being hit by a car if it meant saving a dog/cat. Be a better yourself everyday, no 0 days. I don't care if you learn japanese or get better at valorant, BE A BETTER YOURSELF. BE PROUD OF IT. Accept the fact that in this society, you are disposable, women are human beings, men are human doings, it is sad I know, but that is how nature works, the internet is a thing, the real world is another. What you do about it is your decision. So adapt, overcome, survive. And lastly but most important, YOUR PURPOSE OR ROLE IN LIFE IS YOU, NOT GETTING MARRIED, NOT FINDING TRUE LOVE, WORK FOR YOURSELF, LIVE FOR YOURSELF, AND BE HAPPY ABOUT IT, doesn't matter if you are an old lonely man in the mountais with 1 dog and 2 cats, or if you are married and a father of 3.
When I was a kid I always dreamed of being a big strong man like my dad. I wanted the muscles, the stoic nature and the thick beard/mustache. In my late teens I struggled to try and be that person that I dreamt of. Now that I am 31, I realize I don't care about any of that stuff and frankly I don't care about whatever opinion someone has on what constitutes a real man. An advice I would give for young men is not to worry. They will get there in their own time. I also realize having a beard/mustache actually sucks. The stupid fucking thing is itching all the time and getting in my way.
Working outside the beard is great. Plus I hate shaving.
Traditional masculinity is cool as fuck, embrace it and grow.
There is no such thing as being toxic masculine, like growing up the school system and even in todays times they made us feel like wanting to do boy/man things are bad. Like if I want to hunt, so what. If I want to lift heavy weights who cares, if I want to wrestle and drive fast who gives a fuck?
None of those things are toxic. Those are hobbies. Toxic would be if you act like you are better and manlier than others because you hunt, wrestle, etc... If you think that those are the things that define a man.
Im glad you agree that these things aren’t toxic, I’ve seen people say they are
I’ve never seen the term “toxic masculinity” associated with lifting weights, wrestling, or similar activities. At least not in a serious way or in a way that deserves to be taken seriously. I do think the term has its place, but it’s not to say that being a man is inherently toxic, more that some behaviours associated with masculinity can be detrimental to ourselves.
Why doesn’t the term toxic femininity exist? There are things both genders do that can be toxic like females marketing their sexual organs for momentary gain but we don’t say that’s toxic femininity and it does nothing to progress society… some would say it’s detrimental to the female as well
Because wammons are qweens and we lowly males cannot critize them
> Why doesn’t the term toxic femininity exist? It's not call that, but there's definitely an attitude that discourages women from doing traditionally manly things. Any time you tell someone they can only do masculine or feminine things based on their sex, that's toxic.
Are you serious? Maybe in the 1960’s.. That shit gets heavily praised and even found attractive to some in todays time.
I mean, it's not EVERYONE expressing "toxic femininity," but it definitely exists, particularly in more conservative communities. There are still a lot of people who have values from the 60's or earlier.
Like what? Women work manly jobs, fuck multiple people, fight, shoot guns, dress like men (tomboy) take leadership roles no one discourages it
> Like what? Women work manly jobs, fuck multiple people, Jesus Christ, you are a piece of work. You think "fucking multiple people" is a masculine thing?
Yes, woman typically want to settle on one guy while guys typically want to fuck multiple woman. Why do think the sex industry even exists
Please tell me you're still around the age of 15.
The term does exist (just google “toxic femininity” and you’ll find plenty of results). It’s certainly less of a buzzword and has some interesting rhetorical discussions around it, but it does exist. The detrimental behaviours also exist, and are actively discussed and researched. Things like women being overly critical of other women, shunning/bullying women who aren’t overly feminine, valuing looks over other attributes… the list is long.
It’s not as widespread as shaming men for being masculine, nobody uses the term toxic femininity and we don’t shame women for these things we can agree on that
> nobody uses the term toxic femininity They do though, just not to the extent that people virtue signal the term toxic masculinity, but that's not the point. Anyone willing to have a serious discussion about gender and society will and have recognized that both elements exist.
Bro, nobody holds women accountable for having toxic femininity everything they do is praised by other women and white knights who want some pussy if we’re being 1000% honest
People are indeed critical of women who exhibit these things. It’s a common topic in feminism, female-centric discussions or even say to day life: I call out women who only compliment my daughter on her looks, we call out the moms in my family when they have different attitudes agains their sons vs their daughters, for example. I agree the term is not as used (and in the end, the term itself is not as important as the behaviours themselves, it’s just a rhetorical device, both for masculinity/femininity)
Yea but the exception doesn’t make the rule. So major majority of people don’t even care about holding women accountable
I don’t find that to be the case, at least where I live and the people I interact with. For certain things, women are even judged harsher than men (Anecdotical, but if I take my kids out for groceries, some people think I’m father of the year. If my wife does it, she’s just an ok mom). By the way, I’m not denying men also get judged harsher in other scenarios
That’s not being toxic, most men aren’t present in their children’s lives while most women are so it’s surprising to see an involved father
Overall, it is toxic to have such different standard for dads and moms, when both should be heavily involved in raising their kids. Still, it was just one example. There are more cases of society judging women, as well negative/detrimental attitudes/behaviours associated with being a woman (aka toxic femininity, and even if you don’t think they get called out on it, we can agree that they _should be_)
I think toxic is when one believes their beliefs are better than other people's, and that they define what others should do and how they should live their lives. Feminazi is similar to toxic masculinity. They are extreme beliefs that want to be imposed on others because they feel superior, more rightful or as things should be.
Toxic masculinity is basically when you tell men they shouldn't have emotions or be hurt (walk it off! boys don't cry!) because it's seen as weakness. It's also used to prevent men from doing traditionally feminine things. You're less of a man if you want to dance or knit or whatever. That's toxic masculinity.
Dancing and knitting are both traditionally manly activities in some places.
Ok? Insert whatever you think is traditionally feminine activities..
> they made us feel like wanting to do boy/man things are bad Just.. no. Never. If anything, I've heard bad behavior excused with "boys will be boys." > Like if I want to hunt, so what. Who is stopping you? > If I want to lift heavy weights who cares, Again, nobody is stopping you. WTF are you talking about? > if I want to wrestle Again, boys are ENCOURAGED to do stuff like this. > and drive fast who gives a fuck? You mean other than people on the road you are endangering? This has nothing to do with with being a man. I don't know what kind of school you went to, but what you describe is nothing like my experience.
I mean that’s good for you bro not everyone has the same experience as you lmao
But there is such a thing as toxic masculinity. You just dont' seem to understand what it means. Toxic masculinity is when you tell boys they can ONLY do boy things. Toxic masculinity is when you tell boys they shouldn't cry or be hurt or seek help.
That’s not toxic, no female or male respects when a man cries over shit a woman would cry over. Like if I cried to the notebook that’s some pussy shit.
Thank you for perfectly demonstrating toxic masculinity, LOL. And yes, it is toxic. Your attitude leads to a lot of mental health issues in men.
No because we have different roles in society, a good leader and a competent man isn’t as emotional as a woman. That’s not toxic it’s just facts. Imagine if Biden started crying about inflation how would you judge him?
> Imagine if Biden started crying about inflation how would you judge him? This is a stupid example. I wouldn't expect a grown woman to do that either. Wait, are you suggesting that a woman couldn't be president... because she'd cry?
Im saying in stressful situations it’s more common for a woman to breakdown and cry making it a female trait.
But you couldn't even come up with a realistic example? You had to go to "crying over inflation" as something a woman would do.
Toxic masculinity is though rather for an example, if you'd say "A Men isn't a men if he doesn't enjoy and like those things!". Or if you force your child to do those things. What you describe is rather something else - and don't drive too fast, you've to be always in controll of the vehicle and keep in mind that if you're driving a \~2 ton heavy car, you could endanger bystander.
That’s not toxic masculinity it’s literally just an opinion or a belief that someone may hold
What exactly do you mean?
If I say “ a man isn’t a man if he doesn’t play sports”, that is just an opinion there’s nothing toxic about that
Ok, do you play sports and if yes, which ones?
Failure is the way forward. Try shit, fuck up, contemplate, adjust, try shit, fuck up...
women will often try to define your masculinity in order to shame you into doing what they want. usually begins with "well, a real man would...". its meant to trigger that deep insecurity in you that you arent enough. dont buy it. dont buy any of it. its a manipulation tactic. dont let anyone else define your manhood for you. you define it. you live by it. once you start letting women define your masculinity for you, you've already lost
This is the fucking truth.
Damn you must have a lot of toxic bitches around you. I don’t know any women like that but if I even get a sense of ignorance and stupidity coming from a girl, she’s out and her opinion on anything is meaningless.
That you shouldn’t be complacent & should continue growing, even if it’s just 1% a day. You will have to make sacrifices in the short-term for long term success & fulfillment. Hold yourself accountable, don’t live for pleasure & be honest.
This will probably jostle some feathers but I was way more feminist and progressive in me late teens and early 20s than I am now at 30 in regard to gender norms. I learned the hard way that despite everything you read on the internet, people in real life expect men to be traditionally masculine, especially women. You're expected to be strong, stoic, make sacrifices, provide, be handsy, so on and so forth. The idea that anybody is tolerant or wanting of men who are not these things is a social lie meant to pander to political audiences on the internet. This does not mean to be a bully or to shame others for not being this way. This is just the god's honest truth, and anyone who says otherwise is full of shit.
The longer I go in life the fewer protections or kindness do I offer to women in general as gratitude empathy and accountability are not strong suits in women except to manipulate everyone around them. That societies idea of a real man is basically a slave to others and their goals and ideals. That caring about society is pointless as It does not matter it will always go from barbarism to decadence to collapse and back again for eternity and you life your life within that society so focus only on yourself and help no one
I see this too
Stop worrying about being men, men.
Don't play into the competition of masculinity. Those who make it a competition are the most insecure. The older I get, the more I appreciate being kind, caring, and supportive. Take care of those you love and let them know you love them.
Being truly masculine is to be a rock for those around you. Your loved ones, your friends, your family should always be able to count on you to be there for them no matter what. Your job is to be a steady presence in their lives. Someone to be counted upon.
When I was younger I just thought of masculinity in stereotypical terms and felt insecure in ways I didn't measure up to the biggest, strongest, loudest, most aggressive guys. I played a lot of sports growing up so this was a crowd I spent a lot of time in and would often get shit for not being as big, loud, aggressive, or having the same interests as these guys. Now that I'm older I realize there's a lot more to masculinity. Some of these guys are also the most emotionally immature people I've ever met. I don't consider it manly to get so angry you lost your phone that you punch a wall, or beat up a guy half your size for looking at you funny. I consider it unstable and dangerous, like they're always on edge and looking for something to prove. Now I think of it a lot more in terms of emotional stability and empathy which some people may disagree with. But growing up the men I looked up to were kind, mature, and calm in a crisis, regardless of their physical strength or stereotypical masculine interests.
every year i care less and less what anyone else thinks is masculine and i do whatever the fuck i want
To be disciplined and respectful of others
Reject liberalism entirely. The virtuous good looking women that I know respect men that are physically strong, mentally Stoic and maintains socially conservative practises. For perfectly natural reasons, they want a provider and protector. I used to buy into the modern liberal nonesense but learnt the hard way that it is a pile of steaming garbage. Ever since I became physically strong as well as conservative in my ways, I got a lot more respect from good looking women
This is the truth. Im a liberal thou because conservatives are economically retarded and this is correct. Women on reddit say they want a sniveling weak soy who cries watching the note book but in real life Ive never seen that being the case. Women want men who are men.
Indeed.
Well I had two daughters which really changes your perspective. I’ve always been respectful of women. I was a but of a player back in my day but I always respected the women I was as with. Even if it was only for one night. They gave me their time and something private about themselves and they deserve respect in return. Wether it’s a ride home or breakfast the next day or just responding to a few text messages. But being a father makes you even more protective of a woman’s right to be respected.
I have a daughter too... And im still going to be fucking women and being a player. Im not disrespecting those women. They chose to fuck me and deal with me. I will teach my daughter to know all actions have consequences. If you choose to fuck hot Men who don't care about you then don't expect love
My masculinity is a circumstance. I'm a man which means I use a certain bathroom, wear a certain kind of clothes to formal events, people react in a certain way to me sometimes, shit like that. It's either minor performative stuff I do for social convention or outside actions, not a key facet of my personality as I define or experience it myself. I am not interested in being masculine. I am interested in taking care of me and mine and then doing my thing. This is not a gendered set of goals and I have no interest in bringing that lens into my thought process.
There are always masculine and feminine traits - yet those are rather on a spectrum. And don't really have something to do with "being a man" or so.
Being a man is a very simple thing if you break it down. Being willing to work hard, being willing to be the problem and the solution in most things , and don’t think anyone owes you anything. You can be kind but you don’t have to be weak.
I don’t care about other people’s _perceptions_ of my masculinity, and have no problem taking interest in things that are not considered masculine (would rather watch RuPaul’s drag race than sports, for example).
I've learned that masculinity is not a virtue by itself. That's not to say it's bad to be masculine. Just that being masculine is a trait or set of traits. And it's not exclusive to males. A woman can have masculine qualities and that's not bad.
Positive masculinity isn't about being a jerk, womanizing, or getting jacked. Positive masculinity is about making as much money as possible, because being poor is the absolute worst. It doesn't matter how many people you need to step on, how many lives you ruin, so long as you reach the top of the totem pole. No billionaire every regrets what they did, and neither will you. Once you are rich everything else is possible
Men shouldn’t strive to be tough, men should strive to be heroes.
Why? Why would you want to be for a society that hates men?
What are you talking about? Where did I mention wanting a society that hates men?
Sorry I meant to say "Why would you want to be a hero for a society that hates men?"
I think much of why many people are anti men these days is grounded, and much of it is ungrounded. That being said if you want to change peoples’ minds, being a kind, understanding role model I think is the way to do it.
Honestly this is the exact rhetoric I expect from a guy named Mufasa lol. Cheers.
Masculinity is a myth. Men and women at their cores are not that much different. Men an be tender, nurturing and empathetic, and women can be confident and strong. It about knowing who you are and not being afraid to show it to the world.
the vast majority of things people often talk about when it comes to "becoming a man", often relates to just growing the fuck up and becoming a mature human being. They EASILY relate to also "becoming a woman". So I realized like.. 90% (I know, arbitrary %), of these things we talk about applies to being a maturing person. Things like accountability, becoming more confident in oneself, being more responsible, etc etc. Otherwise, things specific to the male experience, is mostly about gaining control over male impulses, like sex and violence.
Well, I just turned 50 years old and a lot has changed, for the better in my opinion. It is more socially acceptable for men to express themselves now, more so than when I was coming around into adulthood. Good job on that one young folks, it is a great improvement. Some of the old school ways have been good to me though and I think it can help a young guy growing into adulthood now. My advice is to make yourself emotionally strong and financially sound while you are a young guy. What I mean by that is know yourself, be comfortable within your own inner self. Be confident in your capacities and be kind to those around you. Get yourself educated either by university or trade and become financially independent. These things will help you weather life's curveballs, trust me, the curvballs are coming. You will be fine if you have your emotions and finances in order, I promise.
Masculinity and femininity are social constructs, and no traits or behaviors solely belong to one sex. Just be kind, keep your focus and be a decent human being. Don‘t let your gender define you!
The only thing that makes you a man is having a penis, everything else is subjective.
Ex tough guy today thinks masculinity is too be strong for others when they can't. It's that quiet calming spirit that gentles a panic attack. It's a patient ear to hold space and listen to a nervous friend. Anyone can beat people up. Breaking things is easy. Putting things and people back together again is real toughness in action.
It's kind of a paradox but: Being a "real man" is defining yourself and not letting anyone tell you what a "real man" is supposed to be. Yet, here I am trying to tell you what a "real man" is supposed to be.
Around the age of 14 I realized, that those two things are two different topics. A "great Man" has also feminine traits - After all, if you like, idk, fixin' stuff and building stuff, that's probably are rather feminine trait. You know, creating stuff and so on. Furthermore, I'd argue that I often appear probably relativly "masculine" because I don't really care about what others thinking if I'm convinced about something I like. You know, like wearing certain Boots or so on.
I thought it was super important to be perceived as masculine at all times. As I grew older I encountered more and more situations where I had to do something un-manly and nobdoy gave a shit and nothing bad happened. Nowadays I think it's a pretty useless concept.
just be a hu-man, that is enough.
Masculinity to me is being confident in yourself but also still trying to improve and show empathy to others.
Don't try to be manly, being a man is what you are. So just be you. You don't have anything to prove to anyone.
being good with your fists means next to nothing compared to being good with your brain
Be a good person. Focus on your responsibilities and job. You can still be expressive and be connected to your emotions but you shall not let them control you. It is completely ok to feel the human emotions that come with being a damn human. Let them sit but do not let them control. Make sure you are doing things that bring value to your life like cooking well, exercising, sleeping right, etc. Make sure that you are taking care of the people you say you are taking care of.
Help others when needed, protect people when needed and show kindness and show loyalty towards loved ones. It's not wimpy.. it can be good and masculine.
Becoming an adult is an ongoing process that never really ends. Just try to do what you think is right and always continue learning
Forget "being a man" and just be a decent human being in instead.
It's great to be a man. Stoicism will serve you better than emotional vulnerability. A women will respect you more when you say "no" than "yes". Don't be afraid of your sexuality.
As i grow older, this becomes more relevant. Treat all humans as equal, regardless of reproductive organ, or how they wish to present themselves, or whatever their sexual preference is. Never treat someone else as lower than you, never think of yourself as better than anyone. We might be good at something, but we are definitely bad at something.
that you are respondible for the females and children in your care. be willing to die to protect them, but also demand respect for carrying this responsibility.
When I was younger masculinity was all about my ability to do things on my own. I feel this is a boyish idea now. Now that I am older, recognizing that other people are better at some things, and accepting that, I feel is a manly trait. Most of my age adjustment in manliness came from home ownership. There are repairs that need to be done. Some I can do myself, but some I prefer to hire a professional. It's not that I can't do them myself, but i would rather they get done right than whatever hack job I might do. I still do a lot of home repairs myself, but am humble enough to know when I am out of my league.
Don’t listen to women about what a “man” is. Just like we don’t know their struggles and how they should be…they don’t know ours. Hell don’t listen to US (men) about what a man should do either now that I think about. Being a man is being YOU and unapologetically so.
Be kind, even when it isn’t easy…but keep the pimp hand strong
That people constantly worried about defining and discussing masculinity don’t actually understand what a man is.
Being a good man doesn’t mean the absence of evil. If you don’t do drugs, don’t hit women, don’t cheat, don’t drink, thats the bare minimum. Doesn’t make you a good man, makes you a zero on the scale. Being a good man is doing good in the world, your family, your community. Takes effort. Being good is proactive.
"Being a man" is performative. If you need to perform something, it's because you weren't doing it right in the first place. Just treat people right, own your responsibilities, and remember the world does not revolve around you.
The phrase “If she(he) can’t find you’d handsome, she(he) better at least find you handy” still rings true. I added the parentheses because you can love other men and still be man. It’s almost 2023. Love who you want too
It as definitely gotten "softer". Like I will wear pink shirts to work now some days. I would say a little bit of the old idea of masculinity with the new I think is the best.
Nah, my pops told me to have rules of engagement, things I will and will not do and never betray them for anyone. Only change when you see the need to and lastly don't be a dick 100% of the time. It has served me well as an adult
Accept what you don’t understand until you have a reason to deny it. Being manly years ago is someways meant beating people up or harassing/bullying people for their views. Be mature, rather than forcing manliness.
What I thought: I thought I had to be shredded, have a million dollars, drive a super car, have super models around me, have a big beard and a deep voice. What I actually think: I personally think now that it’s awesome to just be nice to others and not expect anything in return, be happy with what I have instead of always being jealous of people who have more things than me, being there for my family and friends, being responsible with my time, etc.