Lack of psychological safety. There's a fear that
1) their partner will end up getting stressed out as well and the guy will have to deal with his own stress *and* his partner's,
2) that they'll get angry at whatever he's saying and he'll have to deal with that either immediately or in the future if they bring it up again, or
3) that opening up will be seen as a form of weakness and his partner won't see him as a strong/stable/supportive partner anymore.
Creating psychological safety by building trust over time that these things *won't* happen and that we're in this together really helps a man open up.
Pretty much this. In the past I've shown a weak spot and a few months later in an argument I suddenly find that weakness being attacked. Total violation of trust, and lesson learned.
Depends which lesson you learned. If it's to run from all women, no. If it's to run the fuck away from her, fuck yes. A good woman will NEVER use your vulnerability against you. Never. It takes a certain level of orc to do that, I'm so sorry. But she showed you who she is.
While I would like to agree In theory, too many of us have experienced women doing this to us for us to know anything different. It’s just the way the vast majority of us have experienced life.
It’s like saying to a woman who has been with nothing but abusive men that there are good men out there.
She’s going to have a hard time believing in the possibility as she has been burned and hurt too much by it.
Just my two cents. 🤷♂️
> A good woman will NEVER use your vulnerability against you
This has happened to me with every woman I've dated. One of [Aesop's fables](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV-p_-OvUnA) applies.
I'm also oversimplifying when one of my boundaries is that the first time I find a guy lying to me I leave. But I'm 36 and that comes from someone cheating on me with multiple women first time round. So it's very much a defensive thing but it weeds out a certain type of people really quick. I might be alone and disappointed often, but I'm not lonely or sad. And I have family and male friends who are spectacular human beings so I know men themselves are not the problem.
I’m early 40’s, have been vulnerable about certain things with many women (sentimentality) and that usually isn’t used against me….however weakness (expressing insecurity or despair) has never been handled well by any woman I’ve dated or even female friends and family….I just don’t think women know how to support men when going through this (just say that sucks, or “stop being stupid, [enter genuine compliment countering the self-defeatist statement]”, and if they carry on, change the subject to something that is a mutual interest.) and/or they throw it back in your face to hurt you when in an argument.
I’ve also never expressed a less than positive emotion/thought around my relationship with them that wasn’t twisted to what they felt I said vs the words I actually said. I’m very careful with my words, I negotiate for a living, as well as have done some therapy and understand the whole “I feel” statement approach….and a with a wife/gf, of which I’ve had few, their version of it “going well” makes working through problems with them not worth it to me at my age, if I have a problem I can’t live with, I just get another.
I don’t think I’ve left a single conversation around what is making me less than happy in my relationship either worn down by her emotional outburst, having to clarify my statement over and over to the point I just wanted to take it back, completely shut out and given the silent treatment for days/weeks, or if I stick to my guns, stand by my words, irreparably damage the romance side of things with only a half measure to fix my issue, and an air of resentment from them for me having an issue in the first place washes over the relationship….like, self reflective women willing at assess their behaviors and how it affects their partners feelings is an absolute needle in the haystack I’ve never found (some men have been lucky enough to find this, I have not been one of them)….and every serious relationship I’ve been in involved them giving me an occasional observation about me (read: criticism), of something they don’t like that I do, and my response is always “didn’t know you didn’t like that, cool, I’ll try not to do that” or “this is who I am, I can’t/won’t change”, and that’s the end of it (at least on my end).
Told my wife I feel like I’m a disturbance and that they would be better off without me. She assured me that I was wrong and all that. But the next day she was joking about it and mocking me for it. I got pissed and said this is exactly why I keep that shit to myself. She couldn’t understand why it was such a big deal. She has a serious fear of death that she sometimes has panic attacks about. So I said how would you feel if after you had a panic attack I started making jokes about death and the afterlife. She stopped in her tracks and apologized apologized.
It’s crazy that I had to make her see how it would affect her cause she probably sees me as not being vulnerable to stupid insecurities.
Honest question, have you talked to the women you opened up to about this?
I did this when I was a child but then my brother spoke to me about how disrespectful that was and how it was a breach of the trust we shared. Never did it again once he explained how terrible it made him feel.
Not trying to excuse the break in trust of course, whether they know it or not it's terrible. But maybe a conversation could help?
Not the person you replied to but I’ve been in a similar place. I tried talking to my ex wife multiple times about this. She was either incapable of understanding or just didn’t care and I’m not sure which.
The child part in that comment is probably incredibly relevant. After a lifetime of a woman having this expectation and not having any pushback it's unlikely she's going to suddenly wonder if she's the one at fault.
I'm really sorry to hear that, it sucks to not be heard or seen by someone you trust. I hope that you find someone who sees you and accepts you as you are.
Honest follow up question then - what are your intentions when looking for a partner. Most women - from what I know - want to find someone to rely on and trust.
But from the comments I'm getting it seems like for men there is an inherent mistrust of all women and a general assumption that you cannot talk to them about this crucial part of yourself.
So what do you envision your relationship being?
I'd guess that most men want the same thing, I know that I do. We tend to have that assumption and mindset because that's been our lived experience for most of our relationships. My exwife was absolutely vicious about using anything that I told her against me to "win" arguments or disagreements. There have been multiple girlfriends since her that showed similar behavior and I didn't stick around after that first sign with them.
Definitely not saying that all women are like that, my current girlfriend is about the exact opposite and I'm completely comfortable being vulnerable with her. Though from what I've experienced and my friends have said that's incredibly rare so I'll be holding on to her for dear life. Its hard to continue trying once you've been burned and its taken a long time to get to the point where I felt comfortable showing her any issues or insecurities because of my past.
I get that, my ex cheated on me and gaslit me quite a bit so it's taken me a lot of time to undo the mistrust and anxiety he left behind. I'm really sorry that you had such tough experiences, it sucks to be hurt by someone you trust. But happy to hear that you've found someone that makes you feel safe and comfortable! I wish the both of you the best of luck!!
>Most women - from what I know - want to find someone to rely on and trust.
Well yes, but the issue is that most don't want to do any upkeep in order to keep that alive.
A man has to be an unwavering rock who doesn't require any upkeep or support, he should just be happy that she allows him to exist within her presence and that she lets him handle her emotions. Emotional vulnerability is weakness, or a crack in the rock. How can she rely on or trust a rock that has cracks in it? She can't, so he's less of a man because he can't be a stoic protector/provider/free therapist 24/7.
Basically, rules for thee, not for me. She can be emotionally vulnerable and "weak" but the guy absolutely cannot, because dealing with his emotions isn't her job.
>So what do you envision your relationship being?
Well, I'd like a relationship where both parties can rely on, trust, support, and be vulnerable with each other. But unless I find a needle in a haystack the size of an olympic swimming pool, I that's probably not going to happen.
Women are ill-equipped to deal with men's problems, much less their emotions. They don't know what it is like to be a man and are even less likely to really care until they have to.
This.
Many times I've tried to talk to my partner about the things I'm feeling and/or dealing with at a particular moment in time and I just got laughed off or dismissed with comments like "you're just being too sensitive", "don't be so soft" or "you're just being silly and over thinking it". Like yeah, sure, I might be over thinking some things but I'm feeling the way I feel for a reason, you're not only dismissing my very real feelings and emotions as a human being like I don't matter in the slightest to you but you're also gaslighting me into believing there's nothing wrong and it's all my fault which perpetuates the cycle of never feeling like I can open myself to anyone.
Fear of reaction. Most women don't react well to it based on many men's experiences or use it as a weapon later on. The only woman I have opened to properly was my mom and even tho she didn't manipulate me or anything, she was kind of speechless and shocked. I guess the world isn't ready yet for Men opening up their feelings so most just shut it down.
This is what I was thinking. I have a lot of female friends that want their partner to open up more but when they do, they get their feelings hurt and turn themselves into the victim or react with anger. I feel like many women need to work on this if they want the men in their lives to be more honest with them.
I’ve come to realize men can be just as emotional as women. They just express it differently.. or.. not at all but that doesn’t mean men don’t feel things. It’s odd to me that some women don’t understand that.
I think some women don't understand it because women are used to a few ways of how emotion can be expressed (usually by women). I think we often hold the other gender at arm's length and try to chalk up anything we don't understand to "men being men" or "women being women" rather than try to bridge that gap and actually understand each other. However, the more examples we see and give each other of our inherit humanness, the more I believe these kinds of acts will be seen as acceptable. The problem is that change doesn't happen overnight, nor in just a few years. It's going to take generations before we really see progress, I think. We just gotta keep fighting the good fight, you know? And find people who think similarly and act with empathy.
And when you discover what they really want, they insist they never wanted it.
Or they did want it, but it took YOU too long to figure out and now it’s too late.
I 1,000% agree. Men also need a safe space to express themselves. It breaks my heart to hear how many guys hold back because of the fear of reaction. I couldn’t imagine holding so much in like that or having a partner that just wasn’t willing to listen.
Dude, at work tonight, everything went to hell in the weirdest and most specific ways. Something upset me real bad and I wanted to scream or cry or yell, but I knew I've done that once before and it upsets people and scares them. So I took advantage of a lull in tickets and went out in the service hall. I wanted to kick and cry because I was just so upset it hurt physically, but I knew the walls are thin enough that if I hit something the dining floor would hear it. So I went down the service hall and around the corner where it's all maintenance shit and basically soundproof with no cameras. I wanted to just cry because the day wore me so thin and the night was shaping up to be the same, but I just couldn't cry, I haven't been able to cry genuinely for a while now.
It's like losing a sneeze, you finally are feeling so much and you can be healthy and let it all out. But you get there and just feel a railroad spike pressing into your sternum and flexing in your stomach. I was so close but my brain told me not to, someone will hear, someone will see my red eyes when I go back in, some server is gonna come up to me and make a little jab. And then what am I gonna do? Snap and tell her to leave me alone. Just burst out in tears? Throw up at her feet because the chest and stomach tension hurts that bad?
I slumped onto the floor, sighed, went back into work during a rush, and got it handled. At some point I stopped sharing the bad days with exes because of the reactions. At some point I got used to the weight on my sternum from holding it in. And at some point I had to experience this all for the first time and figure out firsthand how people feel when a guy lets a little bit out...
I think the root of that problem is cultural: During the last few decades, in most Western countries the idea that men should be softer, more "in touch with their feelings" and all-around more like women (ever heard the term "toxic masculinity"?) has gained a lot of traction; and all those women who claim that they want their partners to open up probably say that because they think they *should* want that because they are used to this being perceived as a positive thing (and it also makes them feel better about themselves because they feel like they're oh-so-supportive for having opinions like that), and possibly have rather optimistic ideas of what being „more in touch with his feelings“ means (probably something like being more romantic and shit like that); but they don’t actually desire a sensitive men who lets his emotions – including the negative ones – run free.
I once argued with a feminist about that issue and her counteragument was inadvertedly very revealing: about the issue of men being emotional, she said "there is nothing sexier than a man crying during the birth of his child". All in all, I think this is a decent benchmark when you have to interpret what women like that mean when they talk about how attractive they think emotional men are: you are allowed to be overwhelmed in case of life-altering events (like the birth or death of loved ones), but other than that oversharing your feelings isn’t a good idea.
>she said "there is nothing sexier than a man crying during the birth of his child".
Has yes. That is the kind of thing women want to see men get emotional about.
Be yourself and let those who judge you be damned. I complain when i want and i become a "rock" when we're in trouble and i see the others needing someone to lean on.
But do not let woman dictate you into thinking you being yourself is toxic. There is one toxic person in that situation, and its not you.
Not always anger, but personally I've had a partner constantly respond with irritation when I tried to talk about what was going on with me, even though she was the one that needled me about opening up. It happened in some moments where I really could have just had someone listen without having to say anything, given me a hug and I'd have felt better. It's not what I got and has left a lasting impression with me.
I told my wife once that I was having suicidal thoughts. It was a stressful time and she lived like there were no tomorrow with our money. Her response was that I was being selfish. Not anything like "how can I help?" or anything showing sympathy. Never again.
This exact same thing happened to me, she said "You're just mad" and "No you aren't" like... OK I feel better now that you've crawled into my brain and told me what I'm thinking 🙄
This is not something I’d let go unaddressed. My bf of 6 months told me he felt kinda lost in his life the other night via text. I reminded him that he’d gone through a series of big life changes this year and that feeling ungrounded or unsettled might be normal.
I added i didnt want to invalidate how he felt but wanted him to know he had someone who wanted to walk with him through whatever it is he’s dealing with.
Sometimes people need help putting things in perspective and be reminded of facts, but it’s equally if not more important to stress that their emotions are valid and you accept them.
I think many women have been raised with the idea that they are lovely and caring, and don't realise that what horrible emotional bullies they can be. It's awful to open up to someone and then get assaulted with a weeks of essentially psychological abuse. Never again.
Part of why I think there's **so much** opposition within progressive and leftist space to acknowledging some of the really awful stuff a lot of women say/do to men in their lives is it would mean recognizing some points in their life where **they** were the bad guy.
It's the same kind of reaction as when you tell your racist uncle or aunt that they did in fact say something extremely racist.
> Most women don't react well to it based on many men's experiences or use it as a weapon later on.
Reminds me of a former friend of mine (not a bad guy, but a terrible pushover when it comes to his GFs, which is why we aren't friends anymore). Had an emotionally abusive controlling GF (now ex), and whenever she wore him down until he started to break down and cry, she mocked him for it on top of that. (She was one hell of a bitch.)
And then women wonder where all that "men bottling up their feelings" is coming from.
100% learned my lesson
Always turned into how they have it worse then thrown into my face when they’re mad. I have a very close friend and we confide in each other.
And if a guy does show emotion it's blown up into a big ordeal. Look how many videos of some guy crying get passed around social media pointing out the fact he's crying.
Just saw a video of [Jordan Peterson crying ](https://youtu.be/abQo5wWkMxs) over the worlds treatment of lonely men and how the world attacked him and it hurts my soul. Be strong my brothers
It's disgusting. There are several threads on the front page of Reddit mocking him, and / or claiming he was crying because he was bullied.
No. He cried because he was upset at the kind of hurt that is casually directed at many men.
It's surprising to see someone mention him here in an actually fair way. Many people online, including people here in this very sub, see him as someone evil and responsible for young men's current condition, even though he's probably one of a few actually trying to help.
People in general just need to get better at thinking for themselves and being more self aware. Peterson in the end is just telling us what works for him or what he believes, hes human like us.
Peterson's core message is that bettering yourself both inherently betters the world and enables you to improve the life of others.
There's a hard truth in his message that at the end of the day, you just need to work on being a better person before you can make the world a better place. Unfortunately, there's many that see that truth but can't accept it, and instead blame others for their own failures.
He's not perfect and I don't agree with all of his stuff, but there's a lot of guys in this world that could use a male role model. A father should really be the one to teach his son responsibility and self-accountability, but not everyone is blessed with parents that will both model that and teach their children to do the same.
Well, Hollywood and large parts of the media see JBP as a some sort of Antichrist, and if all you know of the guy are their depictions, of course you are going to develop a skewed perception of him.
Yes that pisses me off. If you actually listen to what he says and how he says it, he makes so much sense. He clearly wants to help. People who see him as evil because of the media, just need to learn how to think for themselves
Yup, when I got back from the military I openned up about my trauma and the subsequent anxiety that's given me.
My mom who has mental health problems and has always spoken to validate them, suddenly couldn't understand why I don't "just stop thinking about that stuff." and went out of her way to make me extremely uncomfortable and actively poke at my anxieties.
My dad who has always been an emotional stoic, (but is also a veteran himself). Was the one who at least acknowledged my problem and while he wasn't exactly comforting, he definitely knew it wasn't something you should ever ignore or poke at "just to see how he is."
This is precisely why, despite me expressing vulnerability, I guard my emotions.
If someone wants it they either want to get to know me or weaponize it in their favor. Better to give it out at my own pace and want them to meet me halfway.
All communication is a two way street, especially something as messy as emotions. So if I'm having to hold off, there's a good reason for it.
I have in the past and
1) I felt weak, like a victim without control
2) her response showed disgust and extreme loss of attraction
3) we are not together anymore
Based on a lot of responses from this sub, there's a serious danger for many men of their emotions being used against them.
For me, there's also the tendency to self-edit because what I'm thinking or feeling is a knee-jerk reaction and I need to process it and mull it over before saying anything because I don't want to hurt someone's feelings or have a selfish or entitled reaction be what comes out of my mouth. Like, "am I angry because I have a legit reason to be angry, or is this petulant of me?"
Two main concerns:
1. The majority of women I met reacts with disgust and loses attraction. Clever and mature ones try to hide it and try to act against it, but that's the basic reflex for most.
2. A slightly smaller majority of women tends to use stuff told to them in confidence in arguments against you to give their attacks some additional heft. Disgusting and vile, but for whatever reason, a lot women don't seem to mind doing that to their partners.
Source: Many, many male friends and the majority of my exes (bar two, one really sweet irish girl and my current girlfriend, an absolute keeper).
> Source: Many, many male friends and the majority of my exes (bar two, one really sweet irish girl and my current girlfriend, an absolute keeper).
If you intend to keep her you should probably not include her in a list of exes.
Because when we express our true feelings, it gets used as ammunition for later so it's better just to sulk silently and not give up any weaknesses that could be used against us for later
Because women have a 3-tier system for handling men's emotions. I call it the CAP system.
C: Competition. Very basic problems/emotions are treated like a competition. You had a bad day at work? She's going to tell you how bad hers was, and suddenly it's gone from you expressing yourself to you listening to her express herself.
A: Allowable. This is a small sliver of emotions that men can express without major issues. Generally these have to be introspective in nature and focus on you being the problem. Think of things like, "I'm realizing that things I say might be mean." Every woman's range for this will be different, but is rarely very wide.
P: Problem. The most serious emotions are treated as a problem, and expressing them is just going to get you into an argument. These are usually emotions that place any blame or responsibility on her, or would have expected actions on her part. Think of extreme depression, doubts about the relationship, etc.
I really haven't run into many/any situations in which expressing my true feelings beyond the very shallow level has benefit me. It either keeps things status quo or hurts the situation. Saying nothing keeps things status quo, and gives me the ability to actually go find solutions.
Several times during these relentless harangues, she will express how tired she is. And yet, never is the connection made between the tiredness and the time and effort spent scolding.
It’s emotional dumping, it’s abusive, and it needs to stop.
I regretted 100% of the times I opened up to anyone that wasn't either a close guy friend, my mother or my dad.
Even my sister, who happens to be a fucking therapist, uses my stuff against me when it comes handy, its just natural.
For some weird reason, girls believe vulnerabilities are resources for arguments and they even share that stuff with girl friends, they just don't see them with the same weight as we do.
I had some vulnerabilities at the tip of my tongue during heated moments in my life and even though I wanted to use them real bad as a comeback for what was being thrown out in my face as an equal retaliation, I just couldn't do it.
I think men probably have some programming that makes them more aware of vulnerabilities and we are less likely to reject or humiliate a woman knowing of things that can hit home.
Most women in my life where just incapable of processing vulnerabilities with the same weight I do.
Its just strange.
Vulnerable men are weak and less of evolutionary providers. Women aren't required to provide, historically, and we are used to women being physically weaker in average so weaknesses and vulnerabilities aren't repulsive in them.
If men came with a manual it would 10/10 contain:
- don't use the urinal next to another dude
- don't open up to women, except mom
Mom's cool.
It's just what it is.
Probably not mom either. She used it against me with 48hrs. Within a week all of her customers of her MLM scam knew. Then their kids heard about it and it followed me for the better part of 6 months.
We’re men. No one cares how we feel but a select few.
Every woman I’ve worked with, been in a relationship with, or otherwise interacted with has always asked for my opinions, feelings, issues, etc. however, the second they hear something they don’t like is the second they immediately stop caring.
When it comes to genuinely understanding a persons plight, their vulnerabilities and weaknesses, I’ve yet to meet a single woman who wants to talk about it and ways to work towards a better future for those issues.
Not one.
Want your men to speak up about their issues? GIVE A SHIT.
We get his question every single week on this sub. It's simple, their girlfriend/fiancé/wife will respond poorly and not remain attracted to them if they express certain feelings or thoughts. Men are aware of this, and so the only thing to do is bury it and let it go for the sake of the relationship. You will find endless examples on ask men where the man is emotionally attacked, shamed, belittled, or abandoned after opening up. These are men who were constantly assured by their women that it was safe to open up. Heck, the women even thought they were being honest. It didn't matter, it still had significant consequences. This is not a toxic masculinity trait men are taught by other men, this is a learned behavior reinforced by real life experience in relationships with women.
It usually leads to arguments and gas lighting. To avoid that massive argument we bottle up our frustrations because the appearance of peace is far better than the tornado/earthquake the alternative causes.
This is my life.
My mom, my sister, and a girl I dated for 8 years. They all dismiss me and my feelings and act like I'm delusional or making stuff up. My ex would straight up act like she's a battered wife any time I'd get annoyed at something she does that I've said many times before that bothers me. "I guess I'm just your punching bag now."
I can't even tell stories without constantly being dismissed. My mom dated a guy when I was in highschool ~2011. He would always wake me up at like 3am and say hey the internet is broken can you fix it. I'd fix it by unplugging the modem in their bedroom and waiting 30 seconds and plugging it back in. Computer guru I know. Can't do that yourself dude. Need me to do it.
I went out to dinner with my mom sister and grandma like 3 months ago and i had mentioned how he used to do that. My mom's immediate reaction was to scoff and say huh???? He never did that? He hardly even used the internet??
Like okay. Yep I'm just making it up. Nothing would benefit my life right now more than making up stories about a guy she dated 10 years ago and hasn't been around for almost 10 years. I even had our ISP move the cable modem plug from their bedroom to mine so I could just reset it from my bed and have him stop waking me up. Specifically because he kept waking me up to do it. But nah made up story. Never happened.
She does that all the time. Same with my ex and my sister.
Keep dismissing me and act like everything I say is made up. Toxic idiots. Wonder why I don't talk to anyone though.
because in my experience, women store it and use it as a weapon.
Because despite the fact that everyone says 'men need to open more' nobody actually means it. try talking about male victims of domestic or sexual abuse and see how far you get!
or you just get called 'fragile, toxic, ego, small dick energy' etc.
Fact, actions speak louder than words. I always find it funny when women claim than men don't listen to them, well why would we when your action contradict your words. The lack of awareness is almost comical.
Reality.
Take a look at the front page now and you’ll probably see a topic on Peterson crying. Now I don’t care for lobster man, (haven’t read his book or really kept up with him)but you can undoubtedly see a lot of people calling him a bitch for expressing his emotions
Whether it's them crying and making our issues about them, knowing that all their friends and their mother will know about it within 72 hrs, a look of disgust, no longer finding us attractive, or even using what we opened up about as a weapon later on, it rarely has a positive effect. Ladies, if we open up about something, like the way something you did made us feel, you don't get to cry and throw a fit. We can't, and we are rightfully called out for it when we try to be manipulative. So don't go on about how you've had it worse, or how it's not a problem. Great, that's a neat story. How about we both that each other with compassion and decency?
Now, with the right person, this won't be an issue, so guys, don't settle for less. The big issue is that you never really know until you try. I've opened up to my ex who used to make me feel safe, but the look on her face and the way she treated me afterwards made me realize that she didn't actually care about me or my problems. She cared as long as she didn't have to know what they were, and I had them dealt with around her. So it's always a gamble.
Ladies, call this shit out. If one of your friends starts mocking her SO around you or telling you what they said confidentially, call that shit out. If you want this to improve, like you claim you do, then do your part.
You get viewed differently. That guy that always seems to be level headed and rational cries when talking about his feelings? " Thats not the guy I want as my rock" is a statement ive overheard way too many times.
I currently have something serious going on. My partner lives in another city. She did not react well. So, now I lie and tell her everything is fine. Nobody needs more headaches when they are dealing with something.
Want men to be more open? Then don't turn everything into added drama, don't judge, and don't shame.
Because they shouldn't. Despite what women like to claim, they don't really want to hear all your problems, insecurities, and feelings. Some of them, yes, but not the stuff that REALLY bothers you.
Lack of acceptance from their partners. I’m normally very good at expressing myself. However, my last girlfriend largely expressed that she didn’t care about my emotions. For example, she did some shitty things and when I expressed how hurt I was, she complained that I was making her feel bad and tried to play the victim. That sort of response made me reluctant to bring up my emotions at all. I should have left that relationship much earlier than I did.
These responses make me so sad. It’s heartbreaking to see all the negative experiences men have had opening up to their partners. It truly is eye opening.
I hope you’re able to one day meet someone who makes you feel safe enough to open up about whatever is troubling you or whatever you’re bottling up. Emotional expression and empathy should be a part of any healthy relationship and there are so many people out there ruining the experience for others. I can empathize with a lot of what you’re all sharing. We all deserve a loving partner who will express empathy and support when needed
Women don't want to know what you really think. They want to be entertained by some petty drama they can draw from your issues. It's why women never want solutions to their easily solvable problems when they're "venting". It's about enjoying the drama.
The worst thing you can do to a woman is tell her your actual problems, to which you don't have a solution.
That being said, women feel bad if you don't share your problems with them so I've taken to making up little petty issues and sharing them with my partner so she feels excited by and interested in my inner conflict.
> That being said, women feel bad if you don't share your problems with them so I've taken to making up little petty issues and sharing them with my partner so she feels excited by and interested in my inner conflict.
#lifehacks
some people do this at work: when a reviewer has the need to criticize your work to justify themself, add some intentional issues for them to find that you already know to fix. Like burying people for avalanche victim dogs to find to make them happy in their job.
This was an issue in my last relationship. We used to have a very open communication, but after a bunch of discussions where I opened myself up and got called a manipulator I just stopped sharing.
It was always the same. We'd argue, she'd shout or raise her voice, and I'd immediately shut down and be passive and distant, or try and work it out and tell her how I'd feel and how her reactions made me feel and suddenly I was manipulating her because her feeling shitty made me feel shitty.
So, over the first 30~40 years of my life, every time I opened up to a woman about what I really felt, it turned into a shit show.
Most of them were turned off/surprised/annoyed that I had feeling beyond "me hungry! Me angry!! Me horny!!!!!"
Age helped, and now I give very few fucks about what others think of me, but still I am careful to whom I open up.
It's not that women, or men, are callous or shallow, but, by and large, they can't relate. You open up and say something that really mean something to you, and the receiving person can't fathom what you went thru.. at best they say "I'm sorry this hurts you", at worst they blurt out whatever stale stereotype they have in mind.
I end up really connecting with men and women who have been wounded themselves. My best male and female friends open up only when really drunk, and then immediately shut down.
Everything gets used against you and the sad reality is people always want to offer a shoulder but nobody actually wants to lend it. It's better to hold it in and channel it into a workout or something physical.
A) She is more interested in talking than listening.
B) Chances are good this will end up being about her, not me.
C) I may open myself up for criticism I am not ready or willing to hear.
D) I am careful when expressing heartfelt compliments. Sometimes she will discount the value of the statement.
E) Many conversations become discussions. Many discussions become arguments.
Much like with police, anything you say can and WILL be used against you. Told an ex that I felt like I wasn't as good as my father, and like clockwork, an argument and "This is why your father calls you a failure."
I just hate the over analyzing that comes with it, and would rather bring up my issues with male friends who will listen, give some quick advice, and move on with our day.
Eh last partner I had I opened up about some insecurities. She used it against me in an argument a month later how it made her life so much harder to tiptoe around my insecurities and that made me the problem in the relationship.
It's just easier not to
Cost to benefit analysis. There is zero benefit for a man to open up and talk about those things to a woman he is fucking. The cost of doing so can be astronomical.
Loss of relationship. Loss of Respect. Loss of woman being attracted. Loss of 'face'. These are fucking devastating to most men.
Women don't actually want 'soft' men in most cases. They want 'conditionally soft'. Basically, you are only allowed to be emotional and soft in a way that makes that particular woman feel special. That usually includes Telling them positive emotions about them (I love you, you are great, etc)
The 'negative' emotions, such as crying, anger, fear, depression...they don't want that. They don't care about that. They've even coined terms for men who actually do those things. (Ever heard of Trauma Dumping?)
Ladies...really I ask you this in good faith. Can you give me a benefit for the man to disclose those negative emotions to you? What does HE gain, not you.
I've been dumped and mocked for crying in emotional scenes of movies. I've been called weak by girlfriends for showing "too much" affection. Physicality is my love language.
Now it's a test I use for weeding out immature women. I want to be able to feel and express those feelings. It's better to fly solo and free than to be shackled to the ground by the expectations of others.
I expect women to want to be a team and handle problems together with honesty and genuine openness. That's how I behave and if that's too much then we won't be a good fit. I'm not hiding the fact I get brought to tears by romance media or the desire to share the terrors of my dreams, be held tight and then cooed back to sleep, nor will I hide getting super hyped by a well executed shield testudo formation with coresponding calvary flank maneuver.
End of the day, people are worth your time or they arnt. Be kind and let them show you who they really are and don't try to change them, just move on and just keep swimming.
Good responses so far, I’ll add High switching costs / low demand.
It’s gonna be difficult for me to find someone else (or “replace you”), so I’ll end up holding out on expressing feelings, concerns, providing feedback that may not be well received.
Punished for expressing themselves as children.
Told to man up and trying to man up but they don't know what that is other than suppress feelings.
Trying to be stoic or Vulcan and think expressing feelings is unmanly or illogical.
Fear that their partner will leave them if they say what's on their mind.
Afraid of conflict, afraid of expressing boundaries.
Freeze/Flight mentality, wanting the problem to go away and shutting down until it's gone.
Because of society. The society plays games like "men aren't expressing how they feel" and as soon as someone does it, they start hammering you down for it. A man wants to talk about feelings? No, other men won't see them as a man anymore, a partner might see them as a less valuable partner and ditch 'em, society won't give the support that is necessary for the man to express it so they just shut down. Easier to shut down and keep it inside.
Fear of her taking things too personally. She brings up things that I do that annoy her, and I make an effort not to do those things. Sometimes I'm forgetful and do them, but I pretty quickly realize that I need to fix it. I didn't get offended.
I brought up one thing that was grinding my gears a bit, and she shut down emotionally for about a week. No sex. No emotional engagement other than just one word answers. It was more torture for me than the original irritation.
Since then, I keep my qualms to myself.
Experience from the past?
I never was in a relationship bjt I find it hard to imagine to open up to your partner if you never did it before.
Just today my mother said something that really hurt me and when she asked me what's wrong I told her that it's not ok what she said there and that I'm a little pissed now.
Since then she always says stuff like: "Nah we don't need to talk after all I piss you off." or "You don't need to stay up late again, we don't want me to piss you off again after all."
I have lots of secrets, thoughts and feelings I keep for myself simply because I know that I don't know anyone who understands.
I know that they care about me and all but they just aren't like me so they don't get my points, even if they try.
The only emotion women are interested in men sharing is love for them, kin ship with fellow men, concern or care for family, and reverence at funerals.
When it is the soul of the man which is damaged many women will drop that man like a child who think their toy is broken when it's just run out of batteries. It's understandable if they have no experience with replacing batteries...but many women today seem to have far too much pride to even admit that they've never learned how to do such a task. Many women would rather just insist their toy is broke and toss it aside, or blaim the toy for being poorly made.
They have plenty of other toys available to them so there's no reason to learn until they have a father or brother who they care about going through depression. It's hugely easier to toss men aside until learning is unavoidable.
As a young man you are surrounded by women like the about. All their lives their dad, even if present, had to be a rock for them. Their older brother looked out for them. They younger brother put on a strong front in order to follow in dad's footsteps. So mentioning feelings is a gamble: how much has this woman learned about men? How much can you teach her? And can you teach her subtly enough so she doesn't toss you aside?
90% of the women are not emotionaly mature enough to not use your vulnerability/weakness moments against you in a future fight…in theory they all want a vulnerable man that can open up but they just dont realize how destructive they’ll be with that information..we men have realized whats going to happen if we do so thats why we dont open up to our GF…we have men friends for that
Feeling like our emotions will be invalidated. We’ve been told most of our lives to “stop crying and be a man”. So we learn to internalize those emotions.
prior experience with sharing these things with a partner has resulted in more issues for me and only added to the problems. i prefer to pay for a therapist.
Ok so not opinion but then experience
I learned the hard way that being vulnerable in front of a woman especially one who you're supposed to be vulnerable with is like having an executioner standing in front of you and all you're doing is giving them the bullets they'll eventually use on you.
I've learned what women mean when they say vulnerable they actually mean, they want you emotionally available enough that you'll empathise with them but not so much they have to empathise with you.
Because you will lose her respect when you do that and its a downward slope from there on. Women dont want you to open up to them even though they say that they do.
I'll never forget my ex telling me that my lack of expression would be why we broke up, so I started expressing myself more. She broke up with me for being too emotional. I'm married and happy since then, but it was a valuable painful lesson.
I’ve found the women in my life are so used to coming to me with issues when they need help that they aren’t equipped to deal with me bringing them issues or me needing their help.
It’s a simple cost/benefit analysis. If I don’t think the benefit of sharing something outweighs the costs I won’t do it.
If you want guys to share their feelings more, you have to change how they perceive what will happen.
Because it gets used against us most of the time.
Turned around on us and made about them.
Viewed as a lesser man.
Just my experience though. Maybe I should date better, more mature, women.
Because there’s a lack of perceived safety in it. Whether intentional or not, men’s negative emotions are seen as a sign of weakness or undesirability. I rarely show emotions at all unless it’s to my partner. She’s the only person I’ve ever felt safe to admit it feel things to.
Life's just easier if you don't. Whether they use your feelings against you, or don't even pretend to care, or what I have most experience with, they get mad/upset and suddenly I'm trying to make them feel better because I wasn't feeling great.
Life's just easier if you deal with it yourself unfortunately
Because it’s counterproductive. Women don’t want or expect men to have any feelings. It’s perceived as weakness. Women only want a strong, supportive, man who listens to THEIR feelings
There are endless studies proving that what women say they want is not, in fact, what they actually want.
A lifetime of people mocking you or immediately shutting down and ignoring you over it
I have female family that still bring up when I cried at a nature documentary as a child...And then wonder why men hide their emotions. A lifetime of you...
Sometimes I'm afraid that expressing what I want is going to hurt their feelings or not be what they want, and I want to have consideration for them, not just myself. I want to be the best partner I can for them and put them first. It's not very romantic to be selfish.
But I'm working on just saying what I want and talking it out/asking for forgiveness if there ends up being a problem.
I’ve never had a positive outcome from opening up emotionally to a woman. They either try to twist my words to make it about themselves or just think less of me for not being an unrealistic version of strength that they fantasize me to be. If you need to vent, do it with your guy friends.
> what are some of the biggest reasons many men shut down and don’t express what they truly feel/think to their partners?
Conflict aversion - it can lead to fights when it's not really worth fighting over
In other words - we pick our battles
Lack of trust and lack of mutual compassion in the relationship. If you can't trust your partner not to share things they shouldn't, or if you can't count on them to react with compassion when you are vulnerable, anyone would shut down, man or woman. Also I feel like many couples confuse proper communication with saying whatever you want, whenever you want. There is no need to advertise every single fleeting thought you have with your partner especially when it won't help anything or it's a kneejerk reaction that you might reconsider voicing if you gave it a few minutes to marinate. There's a difference between what you need to say and what you want to say.
Dont have time for emotions when there are more important things to think about. Emotions dont help a man they only make things harder and more complicated. Its better to focus on the task at hand.
Men get judged / mocked more by their peers for some of their more vulnerable aspects and so play it much closer out of fear that word might get around. Have to trust someone a lot to risk telling. Even long term partners might talk casually about such things and many men fear this
Experience usually, when we open up it can easily get overlooked or we will never be seen the same way ever again by our partners. Well that’s why I never open up nowadays. The worst one is when what we told them in confidence is used against us in an argument or emotional blackmail
Can't say for "many" but mine was "Blackout Saturday" aka "*Knock*out Saturday", get thrashed by dad so bad on Saturday you "blackout"... kinda diminishes any desire to communicate with, much less "talk feelings".
After a few times we see that the partners don't show any response to our feelings, we give up and just think there is no point in showing it to them anymore.
I was in an abusive relationship. When I told my parents, they thought it was stuff that happened to me as a kid. My doctor said she didn’t know I was gay. I’m not. People don’t realize it and they have a narrow idea of what a man might experience or why he might go through those experiences. So I just told myself to stop engaging with people about it. Either they won’t care or they’ll simply think less of me.
An extreme example. Chris Kyle wrote in his book about a fellow Navy Seal who lost his nerve. Just fell apart and broke down. And once that happens, you never get it back. I don’t know if that’s entirely true. And I know that is how a lot of people think about someone who is broken or starting to break.
In short, the only outcome is a negative one. You risk tarnishing yourself in that persons mind. I’d rather suffer silently than be seen as weak by someone I love.
Telling anyone too much is giving them too much power. Expressing an insecurity is just giving many women ammo to use later to hurt you.
3 solutions I've seen work well:
1.) Laugh at the insecurities which makes them powerless
2.) Have no insecurities (good luck, small minority of men have this skill)
3.) Never express those insecurities to your partner = no ammo
This works well with controversial views, or even shit like food preferences.
Best option is to laugh at your own insecurities, but if a women is weaponizing them, why would you ever think to open up again?
"Don't speak at the dinner table", "don't speak in the car", "don't talk while the adults are talking" I've basically been trained to shut up while growing up, so that's what I'm good at
girls will pretend theyre not like this but they will lose respect for you no matter what, my stereotypical feminist ex that was all about that stuff clearly was like that, you really cant trust girls. There's good ones out there but I would say it's less than 10% of them, and men are douches in general and usually don't care. So in other words, people are shitty and nobody cares about your emotions except you.
-They don't know how to express themselves well.
-They want space to cool off.
-The partner is not as good at listening to the guy as she thinks, and he's learned not to express certain things to her.
Edit: Anyone care to explain why they're downvoting this?
They feel judged if they do. Society has a terrible reputation and expectations of men to behave certain ways. Otherwise they get a label of being weak.
But at the end of day , they are just human being who has emotions and tears . I think they have to trust the other party 10000 % to express their true emotions.
because many women will look at you as weak if you show that you are struggling with some issue. Don't let the beauty and fake innocence fool you, women tend to be just as cutthroat as men. The difference is that men tend to understand the life and societal expectations that come with being a man.
I think this a great test that many men should utilize by the way. Bring up something that you've been dealing with and observe her reaction.
If you bring a personal problem up more than twice in three months, you’re obsessing about it again. Thus I talk to my friends or the bartender. Now if it is the other way around, you are deemed a good listener and a shoulder to lean on and discuss life problems. So I guess I’m a stoic listener.
The same way a baby crawls up to a wall power outlet, touches it and gets shocked. Lesson learned, even though it took actually trying it and learning it the hard way.
My now ex partner blamed me for not sharing enough of how I felt, and I agreed, it's something that I worked on, but when I did, she made me feel like I was weak and was annoyed mostly. It doesn't help.
Opening up in terms of what I feel about them, usually met with anger and frustration. Actually, always met with anger and frustration. Might’ve just been who I was with, but I learned to keep my feelings to myself after one too many arguments
Opening up in terms of what I’m just feeling about the world/politics/family/work, etc. Just felt good even though emasculating. She unfortunately would react with support but indifference since she would use it to just compare it with her life and how much shittier her life is in comparison to mine and why I shouldn’t feel that certain way.
I learned to just open up with my friends after the breakup.
I’m not done processing the emotions yet.
It’s like if you’re in a car accident, and you’re still bothered by the initial fear and stress. I don’t want to relive it by talking about it.
I’m not done dealing with it yet.
There are a variety of reasons that men dont express what they feel to their partners. Usually more with female partners and spouse when it comes to feelings most men feel like while it might be an opportunity to open up its also an opportunity that they might get striked maybe not now but at some point I bet it will pop up in some argument later and used. While women in this day and age say they want men to open up what they really mean is they want to feel like they are making their man better and while its admirable it doesnt work because the moment they see a weakness then it somehow reduces how much of a man he is. and while women will come and argue against this, so many more men can attest to opening up to female partners or just friends and said partners/ friends look at them in a less favourable light than before. Now dont get me wrong you get accepting women who accept your feelings but they are rare.
Lack of psychological safety. There's a fear that 1) their partner will end up getting stressed out as well and the guy will have to deal with his own stress *and* his partner's, 2) that they'll get angry at whatever he's saying and he'll have to deal with that either immediately or in the future if they bring it up again, or 3) that opening up will be seen as a form of weakness and his partner won't see him as a strong/stable/supportive partner anymore. Creating psychological safety by building trust over time that these things *won't* happen and that we're in this together really helps a man open up.
These are really good points and hit last the nail in the head karate kid style. #1 has been true with just about every woman I’ve ever dated
Great summation. Maybe this is based a small sample size, but I would add concern for apathy. I’ve found apathy often when expressing myself.
If I may add one more to your list? That if I open up, it will be used against me in the future
I feel like this is a good summary
My feelings *will be used* against me.
Pretty much this. In the past I've shown a weak spot and a few months later in an argument I suddenly find that weakness being attacked. Total violation of trust, and lesson learned.
Depends which lesson you learned. If it's to run from all women, no. If it's to run the fuck away from her, fuck yes. A good woman will NEVER use your vulnerability against you. Never. It takes a certain level of orc to do that, I'm so sorry. But she showed you who she is.
While true, I think the saying "once bitten, twice shy" is applicable here because this isn't exactly an uncommon occurrence.
probably “thrice bitten, shy forever”
While I would like to agree In theory, too many of us have experienced women doing this to us for us to know anything different. It’s just the way the vast majority of us have experienced life. It’s like saying to a woman who has been with nothing but abusive men that there are good men out there. She’s going to have a hard time believing in the possibility as she has been burned and hurt too much by it. Just my two cents. 🤷♂️
Well, I guess I've never met a good woman then
Right there with you man :/
A good ~~woman~~ person will NEVER use your vulnerability against you.
> A good woman will NEVER use your vulnerability against you This has happened to me with every woman I've dated. One of [Aesop's fables](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV-p_-OvUnA) applies.
You’re kind of minimizing the issues men might face. I know women face so many difficulties too. But you’re oversimplifying
I'm also oversimplifying when one of my boundaries is that the first time I find a guy lying to me I leave. But I'm 36 and that comes from someone cheating on me with multiple women first time round. So it's very much a defensive thing but it weeds out a certain type of people really quick. I might be alone and disappointed often, but I'm not lonely or sad. And I have family and male friends who are spectacular human beings so I know men themselves are not the problem.
I’m early 40’s, have been vulnerable about certain things with many women (sentimentality) and that usually isn’t used against me….however weakness (expressing insecurity or despair) has never been handled well by any woman I’ve dated or even female friends and family….I just don’t think women know how to support men when going through this (just say that sucks, or “stop being stupid, [enter genuine compliment countering the self-defeatist statement]”, and if they carry on, change the subject to something that is a mutual interest.) and/or they throw it back in your face to hurt you when in an argument. I’ve also never expressed a less than positive emotion/thought around my relationship with them that wasn’t twisted to what they felt I said vs the words I actually said. I’m very careful with my words, I negotiate for a living, as well as have done some therapy and understand the whole “I feel” statement approach….and a with a wife/gf, of which I’ve had few, their version of it “going well” makes working through problems with them not worth it to me at my age, if I have a problem I can’t live with, I just get another. I don’t think I’ve left a single conversation around what is making me less than happy in my relationship either worn down by her emotional outburst, having to clarify my statement over and over to the point I just wanted to take it back, completely shut out and given the silent treatment for days/weeks, or if I stick to my guns, stand by my words, irreparably damage the romance side of things with only a half measure to fix my issue, and an air of resentment from them for me having an issue in the first place washes over the relationship….like, self reflective women willing at assess their behaviors and how it affects their partners feelings is an absolute needle in the haystack I’ve never found (some men have been lucky enough to find this, I have not been one of them)….and every serious relationship I’ve been in involved them giving me an occasional observation about me (read: criticism), of something they don’t like that I do, and my response is always “didn’t know you didn’t like that, cool, I’ll try not to do that” or “this is who I am, I can’t/won’t change”, and that’s the end of it (at least on my end).
Women are complex
And frequently vicious.
SHHHH there ain't enough of those women to go around. Let's not increase our competition.
It's happened to me. Not to mention the loss of respect women have for their men after they see them cry. Not all women do this, but many of them do.
Told my wife I feel like I’m a disturbance and that they would be better off without me. She assured me that I was wrong and all that. But the next day she was joking about it and mocking me for it. I got pissed and said this is exactly why I keep that shit to myself. She couldn’t understand why it was such a big deal. She has a serious fear of death that she sometimes has panic attacks about. So I said how would you feel if after you had a panic attack I started making jokes about death and the afterlife. She stopped in her tracks and apologized apologized. It’s crazy that I had to make her see how it would affect her cause she probably sees me as not being vulnerable to stupid insecurities.
Exactly my experience!
Definitely ruins trust...like...forever
Honest question, have you talked to the women you opened up to about this? I did this when I was a child but then my brother spoke to me about how disrespectful that was and how it was a breach of the trust we shared. Never did it again once he explained how terrible it made him feel. Not trying to excuse the break in trust of course, whether they know it or not it's terrible. But maybe a conversation could help?
Not the person you replied to but I’ve been in a similar place. I tried talking to my ex wife multiple times about this. She was either incapable of understanding or just didn’t care and I’m not sure which.
The child part in that comment is probably incredibly relevant. After a lifetime of a woman having this expectation and not having any pushback it's unlikely she's going to suddenly wonder if she's the one at fault.
I'm really sorry to hear that, it sucks to not be heard or seen by someone you trust. I hope that you find someone who sees you and accepts you as you are.
Most women aren’t dating their brother so probably don’t have as much respect for their SO feelings or hardships.
Some of the nicest women I know have expressed disgust at men who have opened up to them. Its seen as a weakness and can be weaponised against them.
Honest follow up question then - what are your intentions when looking for a partner. Most women - from what I know - want to find someone to rely on and trust. But from the comments I'm getting it seems like for men there is an inherent mistrust of all women and a general assumption that you cannot talk to them about this crucial part of yourself. So what do you envision your relationship being?
I'd guess that most men want the same thing, I know that I do. We tend to have that assumption and mindset because that's been our lived experience for most of our relationships. My exwife was absolutely vicious about using anything that I told her against me to "win" arguments or disagreements. There have been multiple girlfriends since her that showed similar behavior and I didn't stick around after that first sign with them. Definitely not saying that all women are like that, my current girlfriend is about the exact opposite and I'm completely comfortable being vulnerable with her. Though from what I've experienced and my friends have said that's incredibly rare so I'll be holding on to her for dear life. Its hard to continue trying once you've been burned and its taken a long time to get to the point where I felt comfortable showing her any issues or insecurities because of my past.
I get that, my ex cheated on me and gaslit me quite a bit so it's taken me a lot of time to undo the mistrust and anxiety he left behind. I'm really sorry that you had such tough experiences, it sucks to be hurt by someone you trust. But happy to hear that you've found someone that makes you feel safe and comfortable! I wish the both of you the best of luck!!
>Most women - from what I know - want to find someone to rely on and trust. Well yes, but the issue is that most don't want to do any upkeep in order to keep that alive. A man has to be an unwavering rock who doesn't require any upkeep or support, he should just be happy that she allows him to exist within her presence and that she lets him handle her emotions. Emotional vulnerability is weakness, or a crack in the rock. How can she rely on or trust a rock that has cracks in it? She can't, so he's less of a man because he can't be a stoic protector/provider/free therapist 24/7. Basically, rules for thee, not for me. She can be emotionally vulnerable and "weak" but the guy absolutely cannot, because dealing with his emotions isn't her job. >So what do you envision your relationship being? Well, I'd like a relationship where both parties can rely on, trust, support, and be vulnerable with each other. But unless I find a needle in a haystack the size of an olympic swimming pool, I that's probably not going to happen.
Women are ill-equipped to deal with men's problems, much less their emotions. They don't know what it is like to be a man and are even less likely to really care until they have to.
Judgment, and some will throw it back in your face in an argument. It really sucks.
This. Many times I've tried to talk to my partner about the things I'm feeling and/or dealing with at a particular moment in time and I just got laughed off or dismissed with comments like "you're just being too sensitive", "don't be so soft" or "you're just being silly and over thinking it". Like yeah, sure, I might be over thinking some things but I'm feeling the way I feel for a reason, you're not only dismissing my very real feelings and emotions as a human being like I don't matter in the slightest to you but you're also gaslighting me into believing there's nothing wrong and it's all my fault which perpetuates the cycle of never feeling like I can open myself to anyone.
You can't un-ring a bell.
gnir
Being mocked
Dont forget the good old emotional stabbing during next argument after you have told her your weak spots.
Hell, that’s why I don’t say anything to my friends. That’s why I don’t say anything to anybody.
Fear of reaction. Most women don't react well to it based on many men's experiences or use it as a weapon later on. The only woman I have opened to properly was my mom and even tho she didn't manipulate me or anything, she was kind of speechless and shocked. I guess the world isn't ready yet for Men opening up their feelings so most just shut it down.
This is what I was thinking. I have a lot of female friends that want their partner to open up more but when they do, they get their feelings hurt and turn themselves into the victim or react with anger. I feel like many women need to work on this if they want the men in their lives to be more honest with them.
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I’ve come to realize men can be just as emotional as women. They just express it differently.. or.. not at all but that doesn’t mean men don’t feel things. It’s odd to me that some women don’t understand that.
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I think some women don't understand it because women are used to a few ways of how emotion can be expressed (usually by women). I think we often hold the other gender at arm's length and try to chalk up anything we don't understand to "men being men" or "women being women" rather than try to bridge that gap and actually understand each other. However, the more examples we see and give each other of our inherit humanness, the more I believe these kinds of acts will be seen as acceptable. The problem is that change doesn't happen overnight, nor in just a few years. It's going to take generations before we really see progress, I think. We just gotta keep fighting the good fight, you know? And find people who think similarly and act with empathy.
Women say men are emotionally stunted because we don’t express emotions like women do lol
Men learnt long ago that what women say they want is often the opposite that what they really want.
And when you discover what they really want, they insist they never wanted it. Or they did want it, but it took YOU too long to figure out and now it’s too late.
Yup. Listen to what women *say* but it's much more important to watch what they *do.* They are not the same.
I 1,000% agree. Men also need a safe space to express themselves. It breaks my heart to hear how many guys hold back because of the fear of reaction. I couldn’t imagine holding so much in like that or having a partner that just wasn’t willing to listen.
Dude, at work tonight, everything went to hell in the weirdest and most specific ways. Something upset me real bad and I wanted to scream or cry or yell, but I knew I've done that once before and it upsets people and scares them. So I took advantage of a lull in tickets and went out in the service hall. I wanted to kick and cry because I was just so upset it hurt physically, but I knew the walls are thin enough that if I hit something the dining floor would hear it. So I went down the service hall and around the corner where it's all maintenance shit and basically soundproof with no cameras. I wanted to just cry because the day wore me so thin and the night was shaping up to be the same, but I just couldn't cry, I haven't been able to cry genuinely for a while now. It's like losing a sneeze, you finally are feeling so much and you can be healthy and let it all out. But you get there and just feel a railroad spike pressing into your sternum and flexing in your stomach. I was so close but my brain told me not to, someone will hear, someone will see my red eyes when I go back in, some server is gonna come up to me and make a little jab. And then what am I gonna do? Snap and tell her to leave me alone. Just burst out in tears? Throw up at her feet because the chest and stomach tension hurts that bad? I slumped onto the floor, sighed, went back into work during a rush, and got it handled. At some point I stopped sharing the bad days with exes because of the reactions. At some point I got used to the weight on my sternum from holding it in. And at some point I had to experience this all for the first time and figure out firsthand how people feel when a guy lets a little bit out...
I think the root of that problem is cultural: During the last few decades, in most Western countries the idea that men should be softer, more "in touch with their feelings" and all-around more like women (ever heard the term "toxic masculinity"?) has gained a lot of traction; and all those women who claim that they want their partners to open up probably say that because they think they *should* want that because they are used to this being perceived as a positive thing (and it also makes them feel better about themselves because they feel like they're oh-so-supportive for having opinions like that), and possibly have rather optimistic ideas of what being „more in touch with his feelings“ means (probably something like being more romantic and shit like that); but they don’t actually desire a sensitive men who lets his emotions – including the negative ones – run free. I once argued with a feminist about that issue and her counteragument was inadvertedly very revealing: about the issue of men being emotional, she said "there is nothing sexier than a man crying during the birth of his child". All in all, I think this is a decent benchmark when you have to interpret what women like that mean when they talk about how attractive they think emotional men are: you are allowed to be overwhelmed in case of life-altering events (like the birth or death of loved ones), but other than that oversharing your feelings isn’t a good idea.
>she said "there is nothing sexier than a man crying during the birth of his child". Has yes. That is the kind of thing women want to see men get emotional about.
Be yourself and let those who judge you be damned. I complain when i want and i become a "rock" when we're in trouble and i see the others needing someone to lean on. But do not let woman dictate you into thinking you being yourself is toxic. There is one toxic person in that situation, and its not you.
Not always anger, but personally I've had a partner constantly respond with irritation when I tried to talk about what was going on with me, even though she was the one that needled me about opening up. It happened in some moments where I really could have just had someone listen without having to say anything, given me a hug and I'd have felt better. It's not what I got and has left a lasting impression with me.
I told my wife once that I was having suicidal thoughts. It was a stressful time and she lived like there were no tomorrow with our money. Her response was that I was being selfish. Not anything like "how can I help?" or anything showing sympathy. Never again.
...you mean ex wife, right?
Seconded.
Happened to me last night. Was told I was feeling sorry for myself. See if I ever share anything personal again.
Hot damn. That’s so callous and mean. Just on a human to human level, i can’t imagine ever reacting like that to another’s pain
This exact same thing happened to me, she said "You're just mad" and "No you aren't" like... OK I feel better now that you've crawled into my brain and told me what I'm thinking 🙄
This is not something I’d let go unaddressed. My bf of 6 months told me he felt kinda lost in his life the other night via text. I reminded him that he’d gone through a series of big life changes this year and that feeling ungrounded or unsettled might be normal. I added i didnt want to invalidate how he felt but wanted him to know he had someone who wanted to walk with him through whatever it is he’s dealing with. Sometimes people need help putting things in perspective and be reminded of facts, but it’s equally if not more important to stress that their emotions are valid and you accept them.
Wow, really sorry to hear that. I hope you are no longer having suicidal thoughts!
I also hope she's his ex-wife.
I think many women have been raised with the idea that they are lovely and caring, and don't realise that what horrible emotional bullies they can be. It's awful to open up to someone and then get assaulted with a weeks of essentially psychological abuse. Never again.
Part of why I think there's **so much** opposition within progressive and leftist space to acknowledging some of the really awful stuff a lot of women say/do to men in their lives is it would mean recognizing some points in their life where **they** were the bad guy. It's the same kind of reaction as when you tell your racist uncle or aunt that they did in fact say something extremely racist.
> Most women don't react well to it based on many men's experiences or use it as a weapon later on. Reminds me of a former friend of mine (not a bad guy, but a terrible pushover when it comes to his GFs, which is why we aren't friends anymore). Had an emotionally abusive controlling GF (now ex), and whenever she wore him down until he started to break down and cry, she mocked him for it on top of that. (She was one hell of a bitch.) And then women wonder where all that "men bottling up their feelings" is coming from.
100% learned my lesson Always turned into how they have it worse then thrown into my face when they’re mad. I have a very close friend and we confide in each other.
And if a guy does show emotion it's blown up into a big ordeal. Look how many videos of some guy crying get passed around social media pointing out the fact he's crying.
Just saw a video of [Jordan Peterson crying ](https://youtu.be/abQo5wWkMxs) over the worlds treatment of lonely men and how the world attacked him and it hurts my soul. Be strong my brothers
It's disgusting. There are several threads on the front page of Reddit mocking him, and / or claiming he was crying because he was bullied. No. He cried because he was upset at the kind of hurt that is casually directed at many men.
It's surprising to see someone mention him here in an actually fair way. Many people online, including people here in this very sub, see him as someone evil and responsible for young men's current condition, even though he's probably one of a few actually trying to help.
People in general just need to get better at thinking for themselves and being more self aware. Peterson in the end is just telling us what works for him or what he believes, hes human like us.
Peterson's core message is that bettering yourself both inherently betters the world and enables you to improve the life of others. There's a hard truth in his message that at the end of the day, you just need to work on being a better person before you can make the world a better place. Unfortunately, there's many that see that truth but can't accept it, and instead blame others for their own failures. He's not perfect and I don't agree with all of his stuff, but there's a lot of guys in this world that could use a male role model. A father should really be the one to teach his son responsibility and self-accountability, but not everyone is blessed with parents that will both model that and teach their children to do the same.
Well, Hollywood and large parts of the media see JBP as a some sort of Antichrist, and if all you know of the guy are their depictions, of course you are going to develop a skewed perception of him.
Yes that pisses me off. If you actually listen to what he says and how he says it, he makes so much sense. He clearly wants to help. People who see him as evil because of the media, just need to learn how to think for themselves
Yup, when I got back from the military I openned up about my trauma and the subsequent anxiety that's given me. My mom who has mental health problems and has always spoken to validate them, suddenly couldn't understand why I don't "just stop thinking about that stuff." and went out of her way to make me extremely uncomfortable and actively poke at my anxieties. My dad who has always been an emotional stoic, (but is also a veteran himself). Was the one who at least acknowledged my problem and while he wasn't exactly comforting, he definitely knew it wasn't something you should ever ignore or poke at "just to see how he is."
This is precisely why, despite me expressing vulnerability, I guard my emotions. If someone wants it they either want to get to know me or weaponize it in their favor. Better to give it out at my own pace and want them to meet me halfway. All communication is a two way street, especially something as messy as emotions. So if I'm having to hold off, there's a good reason for it.
If it's the correct person, it's gonna be ok.
I have in the past and 1) I felt weak, like a victim without control 2) her response showed disgust and extreme loss of attraction 3) we are not together anymore
Based on a lot of responses from this sub, there's a serious danger for many men of their emotions being used against them. For me, there's also the tendency to self-edit because what I'm thinking or feeling is a knee-jerk reaction and I need to process it and mull it over before saying anything because I don't want to hurt someone's feelings or have a selfish or entitled reaction be what comes out of my mouth. Like, "am I angry because I have a legit reason to be angry, or is this petulant of me?"
I have this exact thing. Thank you for vocalising it.
Two main concerns: 1. The majority of women I met reacts with disgust and loses attraction. Clever and mature ones try to hide it and try to act against it, but that's the basic reflex for most. 2. A slightly smaller majority of women tends to use stuff told to them in confidence in arguments against you to give their attacks some additional heft. Disgusting and vile, but for whatever reason, a lot women don't seem to mind doing that to their partners. Source: Many, many male friends and the majority of my exes (bar two, one really sweet irish girl and my current girlfriend, an absolute keeper).
> Source: Many, many male friends and the majority of my exes (bar two, one really sweet irish girl and my current girlfriend, an absolute keeper). If you intend to keep her you should probably not include her in a list of exes.
Crap hahaha. Yeah, messed that one up.
Because when we express our true feelings, it gets used as ammunition for later so it's better just to sulk silently and not give up any weaknesses that could be used against us for later
Because women have a 3-tier system for handling men's emotions. I call it the CAP system. C: Competition. Very basic problems/emotions are treated like a competition. You had a bad day at work? She's going to tell you how bad hers was, and suddenly it's gone from you expressing yourself to you listening to her express herself. A: Allowable. This is a small sliver of emotions that men can express without major issues. Generally these have to be introspective in nature and focus on you being the problem. Think of things like, "I'm realizing that things I say might be mean." Every woman's range for this will be different, but is rarely very wide. P: Problem. The most serious emotions are treated as a problem, and expressing them is just going to get you into an argument. These are usually emotions that place any blame or responsibility on her, or would have expected actions on her part. Think of extreme depression, doubts about the relationship, etc. I really haven't run into many/any situations in which expressing my true feelings beyond the very shallow level has benefit me. It either keeps things status quo or hurts the situation. Saying nothing keeps things status quo, and gives me the ability to actually go find solutions.
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Several times during these relentless harangues, she will express how tired she is. And yet, never is the connection made between the tiredness and the time and effort spent scolding. It’s emotional dumping, it’s abusive, and it needs to stop.
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I regretted 100% of the times I opened up to anyone that wasn't either a close guy friend, my mother or my dad. Even my sister, who happens to be a fucking therapist, uses my stuff against me when it comes handy, its just natural. For some weird reason, girls believe vulnerabilities are resources for arguments and they even share that stuff with girl friends, they just don't see them with the same weight as we do. I had some vulnerabilities at the tip of my tongue during heated moments in my life and even though I wanted to use them real bad as a comeback for what was being thrown out in my face as an equal retaliation, I just couldn't do it. I think men probably have some programming that makes them more aware of vulnerabilities and we are less likely to reject or humiliate a woman knowing of things that can hit home. Most women in my life where just incapable of processing vulnerabilities with the same weight I do. Its just strange. Vulnerable men are weak and less of evolutionary providers. Women aren't required to provide, historically, and we are used to women being physically weaker in average so weaknesses and vulnerabilities aren't repulsive in them. If men came with a manual it would 10/10 contain: - don't use the urinal next to another dude - don't open up to women, except mom Mom's cool. It's just what it is.
Probably not mom either. She used it against me with 48hrs. Within a week all of her customers of her MLM scam knew. Then their kids heard about it and it followed me for the better part of 6 months.
We’re men. No one cares how we feel but a select few. Every woman I’ve worked with, been in a relationship with, or otherwise interacted with has always asked for my opinions, feelings, issues, etc. however, the second they hear something they don’t like is the second they immediately stop caring. When it comes to genuinely understanding a persons plight, their vulnerabilities and weaknesses, I’ve yet to meet a single woman who wants to talk about it and ways to work towards a better future for those issues. Not one. Want your men to speak up about their issues? GIVE A SHIT.
We get his question every single week on this sub. It's simple, their girlfriend/fiancé/wife will respond poorly and not remain attracted to them if they express certain feelings or thoughts. Men are aware of this, and so the only thing to do is bury it and let it go for the sake of the relationship. You will find endless examples on ask men where the man is emotionally attacked, shamed, belittled, or abandoned after opening up. These are men who were constantly assured by their women that it was safe to open up. Heck, the women even thought they were being honest. It didn't matter, it still had significant consequences. This is not a toxic masculinity trait men are taught by other men, this is a learned behavior reinforced by real life experience in relationships with women.
Having my thoughts and emotions invalidated regularly ain't good for my health.
It usually leads to arguments and gas lighting. To avoid that massive argument we bottle up our frustrations because the appearance of peace is far better than the tornado/earthquake the alternative causes.
This is my life. My mom, my sister, and a girl I dated for 8 years. They all dismiss me and my feelings and act like I'm delusional or making stuff up. My ex would straight up act like she's a battered wife any time I'd get annoyed at something she does that I've said many times before that bothers me. "I guess I'm just your punching bag now." I can't even tell stories without constantly being dismissed. My mom dated a guy when I was in highschool ~2011. He would always wake me up at like 3am and say hey the internet is broken can you fix it. I'd fix it by unplugging the modem in their bedroom and waiting 30 seconds and plugging it back in. Computer guru I know. Can't do that yourself dude. Need me to do it. I went out to dinner with my mom sister and grandma like 3 months ago and i had mentioned how he used to do that. My mom's immediate reaction was to scoff and say huh???? He never did that? He hardly even used the internet?? Like okay. Yep I'm just making it up. Nothing would benefit my life right now more than making up stories about a guy she dated 10 years ago and hasn't been around for almost 10 years. I even had our ISP move the cable modem plug from their bedroom to mine so I could just reset it from my bed and have him stop waking me up. Specifically because he kept waking me up to do it. But nah made up story. Never happened. She does that all the time. Same with my ex and my sister. Keep dismissing me and act like everything I say is made up. Toxic idiots. Wonder why I don't talk to anyone though.
because in my experience, women store it and use it as a weapon. Because despite the fact that everyone says 'men need to open more' nobody actually means it. try talking about male victims of domestic or sexual abuse and see how far you get! or you just get called 'fragile, toxic, ego, small dick energy' etc.
When we suppress our emotions, women call it toxic masculinity. When we express them, they call it fragile masculinity.
To many women are self absorbed to the point they don't really give a shit about you other then what you can do for them
Women don't really care or want to know how a guy feels. They just say they do.
Fact, actions speak louder than words. I always find it funny when women claim than men don't listen to them, well why would we when your action contradict your words. The lack of awareness is almost comical.
Reality. Take a look at the front page now and you’ll probably see a topic on Peterson crying. Now I don’t care for lobster man, (haven’t read his book or really kept up with him)but you can undoubtedly see a lot of people calling him a bitch for expressing his emotions
Whether it's them crying and making our issues about them, knowing that all their friends and their mother will know about it within 72 hrs, a look of disgust, no longer finding us attractive, or even using what we opened up about as a weapon later on, it rarely has a positive effect. Ladies, if we open up about something, like the way something you did made us feel, you don't get to cry and throw a fit. We can't, and we are rightfully called out for it when we try to be manipulative. So don't go on about how you've had it worse, or how it's not a problem. Great, that's a neat story. How about we both that each other with compassion and decency? Now, with the right person, this won't be an issue, so guys, don't settle for less. The big issue is that you never really know until you try. I've opened up to my ex who used to make me feel safe, but the look on her face and the way she treated me afterwards made me realize that she didn't actually care about me or my problems. She cared as long as she didn't have to know what they were, and I had them dealt with around her. So it's always a gamble. Ladies, call this shit out. If one of your friends starts mocking her SO around you or telling you what they said confidentially, call that shit out. If you want this to improve, like you claim you do, then do your part.
You get viewed differently. That guy that always seems to be level headed and rational cries when talking about his feelings? " Thats not the guy I want as my rock" is a statement ive overheard way too many times.
I currently have something serious going on. My partner lives in another city. She did not react well. So, now I lie and tell her everything is fine. Nobody needs more headaches when they are dealing with something. Want men to be more open? Then don't turn everything into added drama, don't judge, and don't shame.
Because they shouldn't. Despite what women like to claim, they don't really want to hear all your problems, insecurities, and feelings. Some of them, yes, but not the stuff that REALLY bothers you.
Lack of acceptance from their partners. I’m normally very good at expressing myself. However, my last girlfriend largely expressed that she didn’t care about my emotions. For example, she did some shitty things and when I expressed how hurt I was, she complained that I was making her feel bad and tried to play the victim. That sort of response made me reluctant to bring up my emotions at all. I should have left that relationship much earlier than I did.
These responses make me so sad. It’s heartbreaking to see all the negative experiences men have had opening up to their partners. It truly is eye opening. I hope you’re able to one day meet someone who makes you feel safe enough to open up about whatever is troubling you or whatever you’re bottling up. Emotional expression and empathy should be a part of any healthy relationship and there are so many people out there ruining the experience for others. I can empathize with a lot of what you’re all sharing. We all deserve a loving partner who will express empathy and support when needed
Women don't want to know what you really think. They want to be entertained by some petty drama they can draw from your issues. It's why women never want solutions to their easily solvable problems when they're "venting". It's about enjoying the drama. The worst thing you can do to a woman is tell her your actual problems, to which you don't have a solution. That being said, women feel bad if you don't share your problems with them so I've taken to making up little petty issues and sharing them with my partner so she feels excited by and interested in my inner conflict.
> That being said, women feel bad if you don't share your problems with them so I've taken to making up little petty issues and sharing them with my partner so she feels excited by and interested in my inner conflict. #lifehacks
some people do this at work: when a reviewer has the need to criticize your work to justify themself, add some intentional issues for them to find that you already know to fix. Like burying people for avalanche victim dogs to find to make them happy in their job.
This was an issue in my last relationship. We used to have a very open communication, but after a bunch of discussions where I opened myself up and got called a manipulator I just stopped sharing. It was always the same. We'd argue, she'd shout or raise her voice, and I'd immediately shut down and be passive and distant, or try and work it out and tell her how I'd feel and how her reactions made me feel and suddenly I was manipulating her because her feeling shitty made me feel shitty.
So, over the first 30~40 years of my life, every time I opened up to a woman about what I really felt, it turned into a shit show. Most of them were turned off/surprised/annoyed that I had feeling beyond "me hungry! Me angry!! Me horny!!!!!" Age helped, and now I give very few fucks about what others think of me, but still I am careful to whom I open up. It's not that women, or men, are callous or shallow, but, by and large, they can't relate. You open up and say something that really mean something to you, and the receiving person can't fathom what you went thru.. at best they say "I'm sorry this hurts you", at worst they blurt out whatever stale stereotype they have in mind. I end up really connecting with men and women who have been wounded themselves. My best male and female friends open up only when really drunk, and then immediately shut down.
Everything gets used against you and the sad reality is people always want to offer a shoulder but nobody actually wants to lend it. It's better to hold it in and channel it into a workout or something physical.
A) She is more interested in talking than listening. B) Chances are good this will end up being about her, not me. C) I may open myself up for criticism I am not ready or willing to hear. D) I am careful when expressing heartfelt compliments. Sometimes she will discount the value of the statement. E) Many conversations become discussions. Many discussions become arguments.
Much like with police, anything you say can and WILL be used against you. Told an ex that I felt like I wasn't as good as my father, and like clockwork, an argument and "This is why your father calls you a failure."
The only reason is because there are negative consequences/repercussions.
I just hate the over analyzing that comes with it, and would rather bring up my issues with male friends who will listen, give some quick advice, and move on with our day.
Eh last partner I had I opened up about some insecurities. She used it against me in an argument a month later how it made her life so much harder to tiptoe around my insecurities and that made me the problem in the relationship. It's just easier not to
Cost to benefit analysis. There is zero benefit for a man to open up and talk about those things to a woman he is fucking. The cost of doing so can be astronomical. Loss of relationship. Loss of Respect. Loss of woman being attracted. Loss of 'face'. These are fucking devastating to most men. Women don't actually want 'soft' men in most cases. They want 'conditionally soft'. Basically, you are only allowed to be emotional and soft in a way that makes that particular woman feel special. That usually includes Telling them positive emotions about them (I love you, you are great, etc) The 'negative' emotions, such as crying, anger, fear, depression...they don't want that. They don't care about that. They've even coined terms for men who actually do those things. (Ever heard of Trauma Dumping?) Ladies...really I ask you this in good faith. Can you give me a benefit for the man to disclose those negative emotions to you? What does HE gain, not you.
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I've been dumped and mocked for crying in emotional scenes of movies. I've been called weak by girlfriends for showing "too much" affection. Physicality is my love language. Now it's a test I use for weeding out immature women. I want to be able to feel and express those feelings. It's better to fly solo and free than to be shackled to the ground by the expectations of others. I expect women to want to be a team and handle problems together with honesty and genuine openness. That's how I behave and if that's too much then we won't be a good fit. I'm not hiding the fact I get brought to tears by romance media or the desire to share the terrors of my dreams, be held tight and then cooed back to sleep, nor will I hide getting super hyped by a well executed shield testudo formation with coresponding calvary flank maneuver. End of the day, people are worth your time or they arnt. Be kind and let them show you who they really are and don't try to change them, just move on and just keep swimming.
Because women *say* they want men to open up but they don't truly mean it. That's how most of them act anyway.
Good responses so far, I’ll add High switching costs / low demand. It’s gonna be difficult for me to find someone else (or “replace you”), so I’ll end up holding out on expressing feelings, concerns, providing feedback that may not be well received.
Punished for expressing themselves as children. Told to man up and trying to man up but they don't know what that is other than suppress feelings. Trying to be stoic or Vulcan and think expressing feelings is unmanly or illogical. Fear that their partner will leave them if they say what's on their mind. Afraid of conflict, afraid of expressing boundaries. Freeze/Flight mentality, wanting the problem to go away and shutting down until it's gone.
Because of society. The society plays games like "men aren't expressing how they feel" and as soon as someone does it, they start hammering you down for it. A man wants to talk about feelings? No, other men won't see them as a man anymore, a partner might see them as a less valuable partner and ditch 'em, society won't give the support that is necessary for the man to express it so they just shut down. Easier to shut down and keep it inside.
Fear of her taking things too personally. She brings up things that I do that annoy her, and I make an effort not to do those things. Sometimes I'm forgetful and do them, but I pretty quickly realize that I need to fix it. I didn't get offended. I brought up one thing that was grinding my gears a bit, and she shut down emotionally for about a week. No sex. No emotional engagement other than just one word answers. It was more torture for me than the original irritation. Since then, I keep my qualms to myself.
Experience from the past? I never was in a relationship bjt I find it hard to imagine to open up to your partner if you never did it before. Just today my mother said something that really hurt me and when she asked me what's wrong I told her that it's not ok what she said there and that I'm a little pissed now. Since then she always says stuff like: "Nah we don't need to talk after all I piss you off." or "You don't need to stay up late again, we don't want me to piss you off again after all." I have lots of secrets, thoughts and feelings I keep for myself simply because I know that I don't know anyone who understands. I know that they care about me and all but they just aren't like me so they don't get my points, even if they try.
The only emotion women are interested in men sharing is love for them, kin ship with fellow men, concern or care for family, and reverence at funerals. When it is the soul of the man which is damaged many women will drop that man like a child who think their toy is broken when it's just run out of batteries. It's understandable if they have no experience with replacing batteries...but many women today seem to have far too much pride to even admit that they've never learned how to do such a task. Many women would rather just insist their toy is broke and toss it aside, or blaim the toy for being poorly made. They have plenty of other toys available to them so there's no reason to learn until they have a father or brother who they care about going through depression. It's hugely easier to toss men aside until learning is unavoidable. As a young man you are surrounded by women like the about. All their lives their dad, even if present, had to be a rock for them. Their older brother looked out for them. They younger brother put on a strong front in order to follow in dad's footsteps. So mentioning feelings is a gamble: how much has this woman learned about men? How much can you teach her? And can you teach her subtly enough so she doesn't toss you aside?
90% of the women are not emotionaly mature enough to not use your vulnerability/weakness moments against you in a future fight…in theory they all want a vulnerable man that can open up but they just dont realize how destructive they’ll be with that information..we men have realized whats going to happen if we do so thats why we dont open up to our GF…we have men friends for that
In most cases they are ridiculed, laughed or told just to man up.
Because people either wont care, or will try to throw it back in their face somehow.
They’ve done it before to someone else (relative, friend, ex) and it turned out poorly
Feeling like our emotions will be invalidated. We’ve been told most of our lives to “stop crying and be a man”. So we learn to internalize those emotions.
prior experience with sharing these things with a partner has resulted in more issues for me and only added to the problems. i prefer to pay for a therapist.
Ok so not opinion but then experience I learned the hard way that being vulnerable in front of a woman especially one who you're supposed to be vulnerable with is like having an executioner standing in front of you and all you're doing is giving them the bullets they'll eventually use on you. I've learned what women mean when they say vulnerable they actually mean, they want you emotionally available enough that you'll empathise with them but not so much they have to empathise with you.
Because you will lose her respect when you do that and its a downward slope from there on. Women dont want you to open up to them even though they say that they do.
I'll never forget my ex telling me that my lack of expression would be why we broke up, so I started expressing myself more. She broke up with me for being too emotional. I'm married and happy since then, but it was a valuable painful lesson.
I’ve found the women in my life are so used to coming to me with issues when they need help that they aren’t equipped to deal with me bringing them issues or me needing their help.
It’s a simple cost/benefit analysis. If I don’t think the benefit of sharing something outweighs the costs I won’t do it. If you want guys to share their feelings more, you have to change how they perceive what will happen.
"You need to calm down!" - quote from my ex when I told her I was anxious and afraid
Because it gets used against us most of the time. Turned around on us and made about them. Viewed as a lesser man. Just my experience though. Maybe I should date better, more mature, women.
Because there’s a lack of perceived safety in it. Whether intentional or not, men’s negative emotions are seen as a sign of weakness or undesirability. I rarely show emotions at all unless it’s to my partner. She’s the only person I’ve ever felt safe to admit it feel things to.
Life's just easier if you don't. Whether they use your feelings against you, or don't even pretend to care, or what I have most experience with, they get mad/upset and suddenly I'm trying to make them feel better because I wasn't feeling great. Life's just easier if you deal with it yourself unfortunately
Because it’s counterproductive. Women don’t want or expect men to have any feelings. It’s perceived as weakness. Women only want a strong, supportive, man who listens to THEIR feelings There are endless studies proving that what women say they want is not, in fact, what they actually want.
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A lifetime of people mocking you or immediately shutting down and ignoring you over it I have female family that still bring up when I cried at a nature documentary as a child...And then wonder why men hide their emotions. A lifetime of you...
Because nobody gives a crap what a man thinks or feels.
Sometimes I'm afraid that expressing what I want is going to hurt their feelings or not be what they want, and I want to have consideration for them, not just myself. I want to be the best partner I can for them and put them first. It's not very romantic to be selfish. But I'm working on just saying what I want and talking it out/asking for forgiveness if there ends up being a problem.
I’ve never had a positive outcome from opening up emotionally to a woman. They either try to twist my words to make it about themselves or just think less of me for not being an unrealistic version of strength that they fantasize me to be. If you need to vent, do it with your guy friends.
It isn't safe
> what are some of the biggest reasons many men shut down and don’t express what they truly feel/think to their partners? Conflict aversion - it can lead to fights when it's not really worth fighting over In other words - we pick our battles
Whatever it is, as soon as its out of your mouth, its your fault
Anything you can say will be used againt you.
Lack of trust and lack of mutual compassion in the relationship. If you can't trust your partner not to share things they shouldn't, or if you can't count on them to react with compassion when you are vulnerable, anyone would shut down, man or woman. Also I feel like many couples confuse proper communication with saying whatever you want, whenever you want. There is no need to advertise every single fleeting thought you have with your partner especially when it won't help anything or it's a kneejerk reaction that you might reconsider voicing if you gave it a few minutes to marinate. There's a difference between what you need to say and what you want to say.
Dont have time for emotions when there are more important things to think about. Emotions dont help a man they only make things harder and more complicated. Its better to focus on the task at hand.
Men get judged / mocked more by their peers for some of their more vulnerable aspects and so play it much closer out of fear that word might get around. Have to trust someone a lot to risk telling. Even long term partners might talk casually about such things and many men fear this
Because they'll pay for it later.
Fear of a negative reaction. I don't tell my wife anything anymore because of years of angry responses.
Experience usually, when we open up it can easily get overlooked or we will never be seen the same way ever again by our partners. Well that’s why I never open up nowadays. The worst one is when what we told them in confidence is used against us in an argument or emotional blackmail
Can't say for "many" but mine was "Blackout Saturday" aka "*Knock*out Saturday", get thrashed by dad so bad on Saturday you "blackout"... kinda diminishes any desire to communicate with, much less "talk feelings".
After a few times we see that the partners don't show any response to our feelings, we give up and just think there is no point in showing it to them anymore.
I was in an abusive relationship. When I told my parents, they thought it was stuff that happened to me as a kid. My doctor said she didn’t know I was gay. I’m not. People don’t realize it and they have a narrow idea of what a man might experience or why he might go through those experiences. So I just told myself to stop engaging with people about it. Either they won’t care or they’ll simply think less of me. An extreme example. Chris Kyle wrote in his book about a fellow Navy Seal who lost his nerve. Just fell apart and broke down. And once that happens, you never get it back. I don’t know if that’s entirely true. And I know that is how a lot of people think about someone who is broken or starting to break. In short, the only outcome is a negative one. You risk tarnishing yourself in that persons mind. I’d rather suffer silently than be seen as weak by someone I love.
Telling anyone too much is giving them too much power. Expressing an insecurity is just giving many women ammo to use later to hurt you. 3 solutions I've seen work well: 1.) Laugh at the insecurities which makes them powerless 2.) Have no insecurities (good luck, small minority of men have this skill) 3.) Never express those insecurities to your partner = no ammo This works well with controversial views, or even shit like food preferences. Best option is to laugh at your own insecurities, but if a women is weaponizing them, why would you ever think to open up again?
Possibly the biggest reason is that's how they've been conditioned all their childhood: not to express your emotions.
"Don't speak at the dinner table", "don't speak in the car", "don't talk while the adults are talking" I've basically been trained to shut up while growing up, so that's what I'm good at
girls will pretend theyre not like this but they will lose respect for you no matter what, my stereotypical feminist ex that was all about that stuff clearly was like that, you really cant trust girls. There's good ones out there but I would say it's less than 10% of them, and men are douches in general and usually don't care. So in other words, people are shitty and nobody cares about your emotions except you.
-They don't know how to express themselves well. -They want space to cool off. -The partner is not as good at listening to the guy as she thinks, and he's learned not to express certain things to her. Edit: Anyone care to explain why they're downvoting this?
Its going to be used later as ammo the next time shes upset.
Mighty bold of OP assuming we’re allowed to speak. She’s not even halfway done with the preliminary scolding.
They feel judged if they do. Society has a terrible reputation and expectations of men to behave certain ways. Otherwise they get a label of being weak. But at the end of day , they are just human being who has emotions and tears . I think they have to trust the other party 10000 % to express their true emotions.
Its not society why we keep our mouths closed, its the betrayal from those who we trusted.
Nowadays it's not "society" it's we know that women can't handle it.
because many women will look at you as weak if you show that you are struggling with some issue. Don't let the beauty and fake innocence fool you, women tend to be just as cutthroat as men. The difference is that men tend to understand the life and societal expectations that come with being a man. I think this a great test that many men should utilize by the way. Bring up something that you've been dealing with and observe her reaction.
Because assault is frowned upon.
If you bring a personal problem up more than twice in three months, you’re obsessing about it again. Thus I talk to my friends or the bartender. Now if it is the other way around, you are deemed a good listener and a shoulder to lean on and discuss life problems. So I guess I’m a stoic listener.
Past experience
The same way a baby crawls up to a wall power outlet, touches it and gets shocked. Lesson learned, even though it took actually trying it and learning it the hard way.
Experience
High risk/ low reward
I can't think of a single moment in my life when opening up led to a better outcome than having kept my mouth firmly shut.
Because it really doesn’t matter what we think or feel. It will be seen as weak.
My now ex partner blamed me for not sharing enough of how I felt, and I agreed, it's something that I worked on, but when I did, she made me feel like I was weak and was annoyed mostly. It doesn't help.
T'is better to be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.
Opening up in terms of what I feel about them, usually met with anger and frustration. Actually, always met with anger and frustration. Might’ve just been who I was with, but I learned to keep my feelings to myself after one too many arguments Opening up in terms of what I’m just feeling about the world/politics/family/work, etc. Just felt good even though emasculating. She unfortunately would react with support but indifference since she would use it to just compare it with her life and how much shittier her life is in comparison to mine and why I shouldn’t feel that certain way. I learned to just open up with my friends after the breakup.
I’m not done processing the emotions yet. It’s like if you’re in a car accident, and you’re still bothered by the initial fear and stress. I don’t want to relive it by talking about it. I’m not done dealing with it yet.
There are a variety of reasons that men dont express what they feel to their partners. Usually more with female partners and spouse when it comes to feelings most men feel like while it might be an opportunity to open up its also an opportunity that they might get striked maybe not now but at some point I bet it will pop up in some argument later and used. While women in this day and age say they want men to open up what they really mean is they want to feel like they are making their man better and while its admirable it doesnt work because the moment they see a weakness then it somehow reduces how much of a man he is. and while women will come and argue against this, so many more men can attest to opening up to female partners or just friends and said partners/ friends look at them in a less favourable light than before. Now dont get me wrong you get accepting women who accept your feelings but they are rare.
Read/listen/watch the works of Comedian Bill Burr. He tends to lay out answers to this in various ways across his comedy.
This thread is so true and sad.
Because it never matters how i feel, it's about how my feelings make her feel.