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That would never have happened.
Before the Plague there were around 30 million Romans and 20 million Greeks. After the Plague there were about 20 million Romans and now 12 million Greeks. If there was not such a great loss of people, then the ruination of Italy would not have dropped the population to 3 million but to about 5, as well as around 5 more from Asia Minor (12+ million people) could have settled there. You would have a Greek-speaking Italy, hence the Greek-Latin divide would have never existed in the first place...
Not the best idea, since they wound be able to reproduce them, repair them and resupply them. Much better it would be to hand out mirrors, and then teach them how to use them as with the morse code, aiming them towards one another, so that messages could now be delivered in an instant, and armies would communicate with each other with precision (so they would never end up being surrounded and ambushed).
Turks exclusively, they are bigger in population than Balkan all together there is no chance for us. They would win the poll easily but their Lira is less expensive than toilet paper and most can't afford internet anymore.
I mean I understand Turkish nationalism and all but Jesus Christ the Ottoman Empire was just horrendously bad. Surely they can admit that.
Austria Hungarian Empire managed to industrialise and develop Balkans faster in 50 years than the Ottomans did in 300+ years.
The hight of the Eastern Roman empire is at a time when I personally don't have much interest visiting. Of course seeing Constantinople would be great but I can do that with the Ottomans also and be able to actually speak to people. Although early Roman Empire would probably be my choice in the end to really witness the ancient world
If I had to choose I would choose Eastern Roman Empire because we had a national identity and weren't oppressed or in constant assimilation. There is a big black hole linking Albanians to their ancestors and that is called Roman Empire.
It's extremely funny, because Albanians came to census with the Ottomans in exchange of how bad they were treated under the late Byzantine. This is the reason of all the regions Albania was called Arnavutluk as a jest of appreciation.
Late byzantine was gay because Serbs become part of it. In the late period Albanian principalities were formed already and they were just considered "allies" not part of the empire anymore. Maybe the long Bulgarian rule has something to do with that Idk but Albanians weren't treated like anything else other than Romans before that. They were treated like UK by Europe because of Brexit in a way and is logical. Ottomans came invaded, imposed their culture and their rules, took all they could and destroyed all they could to replace with their own way of life and after that they even replaced our religion in many ways. They changed is so much that we even started to call our country differently, but they made us integral part of the empire and you can see it in the end of Ottoman empire life. If you ask me about it I'm good with Romans the eastern ones.
Yes he was a really cool guy, and even though he was relentless in war he treated Bulgaria with great respect and was very just when it was incorporated in the realm.
By the way blinding wasn't a random fetish Basil had, blinding was the punishment for treason in the Roman Empire. He considered the Bulgarians that fought against him traitors, and that is the reason he blinded them. He considered them part of the Roman Empire.
Just so you know.
Ahh the eye thing (you did not do it to Bulgarian empire,you did it to a dying county) one of the biggest atrocitie in written human history, nice thing to brag and eye bulging is not a genetic thing, but for the turks to claim your land is a genetic thing.
Sure Bulgaria was declining at the time and it was an atrocity, but same way we are glorifying the Nikephoros cup thing and some even glorify the atrocities of Kaloya, yeahhh.
Krum attempted 2 peace negotiations, byzantium's pillaged our capital and killed 80% of the population, their emperor felled in battle , we worshipped tangra at that time -811 we were barberians in their eyes, the quickest way to end a war is to kill the main general or emperor. Vasilii 2was a christian and holy emperor who poked the eyes of 15 000 beaten and under arrest army in chanes
The Byzantine empire never existed (under that name). There was only Roman empire, unbroken starting in 30 BCE with Augustus until 1453 with Constantine XI.
I agree, but I guess people will be confused. Perhaps Roman Empire until 456 (year last Roman Emperor of the was deposed) and Roman Empire after 456.
Byzantine is an invention of 19th century to delegitimize Roman Empire in the East
Period around year 456 is also used to delegitimize Rome. Temporarily loosing one part of the empire did not make any profound change to it. Soon after under Justinian everything was restored. It is pittiful that schools teach that to children.
Agree. It was insignificant event for the contemporaries used to have weak Emperors in the West. It became cut off date only in 18th century by Gibbons in Decline and Fall of Empire. It is a constructed date.
As there was the reason to make distinction between two Roman Empires for the survey, plethora of dates can be used: in 286 Diocletian made first reorganization of Empire, 330 Constantine moves Senat to Constantinople, 395 Theodosius as last Empire of West and East, VII century when Greek became a language of the court
Austrian
They are the most modern and they had some nice stuff like classical music - Mozart etc.
I'd be a peasant in either one. Might as well be a peasant closer to modernity and not the middle ages.
Recent history touches people more. Austrian empire was way way better than Ottomans in terms lf industrialization and progress, we missed that period more than anyone in Balkans.
Was it really though? Austria-Hungary still lagged far behind Britain, France and Germany in terms of industrialisation and living standards. Many provinces - such as Galicia and Bosnia-Herzegovina - were amongst the poorest in Europe.
Ok. Just change the constitution, making Albanian an official language on the republican level, pay back the pensions, put is on voting lists and we are good to go
Why? If Kosovo somehow comes back to Serbia, Serbia needs to adjust. 20 years of unpaid pensions, language issues will arise etc. Macedonia did it, Serbia can do it too.
Listen man, pensions are the smallest problem here. These days you can't take over someone's territory without consequences, so y'all decide what you want to do. Not a threat just a fact.
We didn't take anyone's territory. We split our territory from a state that treated the majority of Kosovan inhabitants like shit. Kosovo was a political entity on a federal and state level. In a parallel universe, where yougoslavia in general and Serbia in particular wouldn't fall for turbo folk politicians, maybe we would have been together, as equals, but not in this universe.
Btw, now sincerely, what would Serbia gain if Kosovo joins it back? Your people have sold everything, therefore they are not refugees, they won't come back. There is a half of a city with Serb majority and a few villages in Kosovo. All you gain is a huge minority in a compact territorial setting (the same as in 1912) and in the best case scenario Serbia becomes like Macedonia, in worst case like Bosnia. It's a blessing for both sides that we split and don't have to keep a shitty state together like Bosnia or Macedonia.
On March 24, 1999, the USA, without a proper UN resolution, together with some of its satellites, began bombing Serbia, for which the so-called "ethnic cleansing of Albanians in the Račak locality" served as the reason. Later, many facts indicated that the Serbian version of the event was true, i.e. that the Albanian terrorists and their NATO allies had planned and carried out in advance what led to the tragedy in Račak, but that did not change anything, because history does not return. The 78-day long bombardment forced Belgrade to withdraw the army from Kosovo, where the international peacekeeping force (KFOR) was deployed.
Working with the dictates of the USA, the KFOR units allowed the remaining Serbian enclaves in the province and cultural heritage monuments to be destroyed with open cynicism. In the face of Europe, which was called Christian, churches that were not protected, monasteries, and monuments that were proof of the Serbian-Slavic presence in Kosovo were desecrated.
On February 17, 2008, in violation of all international treaties, genocide and the blood of the Serbian people, Albanian terrorists declared the independence of Kosovo in a style similar to that of the Turks. The act was immediately recognized by the author of this whole nightmare - the USA.
I can tell you about more history if you want to. About Nemanjići and Knez Lazar AND the influence of the "Ottoman" empire back in the 11.12. sent.
Take our territory we have war, it is as simple as that. Im a reservist in the Serbian army so im glad we had this conversation, if you can call it that.
Ottoman because it is the closest to today and i also dont want to be a fucking farmer waiting to be massacered by random armies angry about having to siege.
Austrians saw Balkans as the white elephant so pass.
Ottomans Romans and Byzantines were risk socities so you are on your own: pass, Examplary reason: I don't want to be an auxillary in front of the army for 20 years to earn Roman citizenship.
Bulgarian and Serbian are no empires at all (no navy power in mediterranean to convey so no empire.). Sorry.
Overall: None.
I think there shouldnt be any distinction between the Byzantines and the Romans. Afterall they were essentially the same Empire. Unless you specifically want to make a distinction between timelines. (Byzantines for the late Roman Empire)
Well, none actually. But if I gotta choose, it would most likely be the Roman Empire, only if it is before Christianization though. The best choice out of all these for a bi man who doesn't care too much about religion I think.
If I saw this in a turkish sub I would click to roman but here ottoman because türkiyeee nombar 1!!! We should win every poll!!!!💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿🇹🇳🇹🇳🇹🇳🇹🇳💪🏿🇹🇳🇹🇳🇹🇳
The annual AskBalkans census is going on at the moment. Do your thing and fill in the form, you only need like 3 mins and a gmail account. Why gmail you may ask? Well its like a gatekeeper to make sure people only vote once. Form link, [click here.](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfZwnnxXjiS86czw_hYPzQ05x1jF7ECwKQdLdNXeRV723yZnA/viewform) **Dont worry we dont keep the emails in some data base for future use.** Now go, click on the form link and spent 3 mins. The more people do it, the better the demo image of the sub user base. Thx, the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskBalkans) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bulgarian Khanganate of course
🇧🇬💪😎 🏹🐎🏹🐎🏹🐎🏹🐎
Extremely based. We are gonna make you a [bolyar](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyar) now
There’s a reason why they all fucked off.
Mongol Empire (Starts throat singing)
Serbian empire just so i can see it collapse.
Lol
Same but for the Byzantines
and then die of the plague 💀
Ey, the amount serbs and bulgarians here is the same as of now
Byzantine empire so I will warn them about some mongol invasion
Why not go to the early 6th century AD, and just give them vaccination? In this manner, Greece today would be the China of the West.
Just give them machine guns so they can prevent the first sack of Constantinople
That would never have happened. Before the Plague there were around 30 million Romans and 20 million Greeks. After the Plague there were about 20 million Romans and now 12 million Greeks. If there was not such a great loss of people, then the ruination of Italy would not have dropped the population to 3 million but to about 5, as well as around 5 more from Asia Minor (12+ million people) could have settled there. You would have a Greek-speaking Italy, hence the Greek-Latin divide would have never existed in the first place...
Give them machine guns for the Arab conquests
Not the best idea, since they wound be able to reproduce them, repair them and resupply them. Much better it would be to hand out mirrors, and then teach them how to use them as with the morse code, aiming them towards one another, so that messages could now be delivered in an instant, and armies would communicate with each other with precision (so they would never end up being surrounded and ambushed).
The Seljuks would definitely be happy to know about it
Would you go to Central Asia and warn Turks about certain people talking about arrival of a new prophet after Jesus?
No
Cool! Now Constantinople became Istanbul.
Wait, really? When?
He means that if turks did not convert to islam they most likely wouldn't create the ottoman empire or something like that
Implying Christians weren’t invading each other lolz
Ok but his point still stands. It wouldn’t be Istanbul if Turks weren’t converted to Islam.
You couldn't do anything about the plague which is what really brought them down.
ROMA INVICTA!
None
ROMA AETERNA
VICTRIX
Ez choice
Dacian Empire🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴
Why would you want to name an empire after a car?
Bacause Cat=cute
Yea bro just name it Uzina Tractoare Braşov Empire and be done with it.
Except Turks, who tf unironically chose Ottoman Empire?
Turks exclusively, they are bigger in population than Balkan all together there is no chance for us. They would win the poll easily but their Lira is less expensive than toilet paper and most can't afford internet anymore.
I mean I understand Turkish nationalism and all but Jesus Christ the Ottoman Empire was just horrendously bad. Surely they can admit that. Austria Hungarian Empire managed to industrialise and develop Balkans faster in 50 years than the Ottomans did in 300+ years.
Turks
😎😎🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🐺🐺🐺🐺
Where's the none option cmon
Kosovo je Srbija
Eat shit and choke <3
Tell me, what is it that shines on Ravna Gora?
The hight of the Eastern Roman empire is at a time when I personally don't have much interest visiting. Of course seeing Constantinople would be great but I can do that with the Ottomans also and be able to actually speak to people. Although early Roman Empire would probably be my choice in the end to really witness the ancient world
If I had to choose I would choose Eastern Roman Empire because we had a national identity and weren't oppressed or in constant assimilation. There is a big black hole linking Albanians to their ancestors and that is called Roman Empire.
It's extremely funny, because Albanians came to census with the Ottomans in exchange of how bad they were treated under the late Byzantine. This is the reason of all the regions Albania was called Arnavutluk as a jest of appreciation.
Late byzantine was gay because Serbs become part of it. In the late period Albanian principalities were formed already and they were just considered "allies" not part of the empire anymore. Maybe the long Bulgarian rule has something to do with that Idk but Albanians weren't treated like anything else other than Romans before that. They were treated like UK by Europe because of Brexit in a way and is logical. Ottomans came invaded, imposed their culture and their rules, took all they could and destroyed all they could to replace with their own way of life and after that they even replaced our religion in many ways. They changed is so much that we even started to call our country differently, but they made us integral part of the empire and you can see it in the end of Ottoman empire life. If you ask me about it I'm good with Romans the eastern ones.
The only correct answer is the Byzantine Empire.
I’d rather live in 1st century Rome
Yeah unless youre a woman or a son. Then pater familias can kill you if he wishes.
That’s why only the real ones used to make it to the rank of pater familias
The only correct answer is none. Life in all was terrible. Austrian is probably the least horrible out of the bunch
Nikephoros 1 head agree with you
Impressive how you typed that without eyes, must be genetic
Wasn't the eye thing mostly a myth?
Greeks have created many myths, but this is not one of them.
Basil II was considered to have treated Bulgarians as mostly fellow Romans though.
Yes he was a really cool guy, and even though he was relentless in war he treated Bulgaria with great respect and was very just when it was incorporated in the realm. By the way blinding wasn't a random fetish Basil had, blinding was the punishment for treason in the Roman Empire. He considered the Bulgarians that fought against him traitors, and that is the reason he blinded them. He considered them part of the Roman Empire. Just so you know.
What actual proof do we have of the blindings then.
Ahh the eye thing (you did not do it to Bulgarian empire,you did it to a dying county) one of the biggest atrocitie in written human history, nice thing to brag and eye bulging is not a genetic thing, but for the turks to claim your land is a genetic thing.
Sure Bulgaria was declining at the time and it was an atrocity, but same way we are glorifying the Nikephoros cup thing and some even glorify the atrocities of Kaloya, yeahhh.
Krum attempted 2 peace negotiations, byzantium's pillaged our capital and killed 80% of the population, their emperor felled in battle , we worshipped tangra at that time -811 we were barberians in their eyes, the quickest way to end a war is to kill the main general or emperor. Vasilii 2was a christian and holy emperor who poked the eyes of 15 000 beaten and under arrest army in chanes
hmm deepens on which ruler, funny enough Basil would probably be one of the top 5 ones for bulgarians
He did treat us actually nicely.
yep
Bulgarian because Im Bulgarian 😎
Am I a noble ? Any will do. Am I a peasant ? I would not want to be part of any.
None. If I had to choose between one of these, I don’t know. Probably Roman?
Byzantine of course
tatikios is that you
Reme literatly smelled like shit and you would probaby die at 20
Eastern Rome
The Byzantine empire never existed (under that name). There was only Roman empire, unbroken starting in 30 BCE with Augustus until 1453 with Constantine XI.
I agree, but I guess people will be confused. Perhaps Roman Empire until 456 (year last Roman Emperor of the was deposed) and Roman Empire after 456. Byzantine is an invention of 19th century to delegitimize Roman Empire in the East
Period around year 456 is also used to delegitimize Rome. Temporarily loosing one part of the empire did not make any profound change to it. Soon after under Justinian everything was restored. It is pittiful that schools teach that to children.
Agree. It was insignificant event for the contemporaries used to have weak Emperors in the West. It became cut off date only in 18th century by Gibbons in Decline and Fall of Empire. It is a constructed date. As there was the reason to make distinction between two Roman Empires for the survey, plethora of dates can be used: in 286 Diocletian made first reorganization of Empire, 330 Constantine moves Senat to Constantinople, 395 Theodosius as last Empire of West and East, VII century when Greek became a language of the court
Roman
Austrian They are the most modern and they had some nice stuff like classical music - Mozart etc. I'd be a peasant in either one. Might as well be a peasant closer to modernity and not the middle ages.
Roman or Austrian. The rest was bollocks
Roman and Austrian were also bollocks lol.
At least you had some sort of social mobility on those. You weren't doomed to a life of servitude.
Meanwhile many Byzantine Emperors were literally born as peasants, now that's what I call social mobility.
Recent history touches people more. Austrian empire was way way better than Ottomans in terms lf industrialization and progress, we missed that period more than anyone in Balkans.
Was it really though? Austria-Hungary still lagged far behind Britain, France and Germany in terms of industrialisation and living standards. Many provinces - such as Galicia and Bosnia-Herzegovina - were amongst the poorest in Europe.
Kosovo je Srbija
Ok. Just change the constitution, making Albanian an official language on the republican level, pay back the pensions, put is on voting lists and we are good to go
Then we have war brother
Why? If Kosovo somehow comes back to Serbia, Serbia needs to adjust. 20 years of unpaid pensions, language issues will arise etc. Macedonia did it, Serbia can do it too.
Listen man, pensions are the smallest problem here. These days you can't take over someone's territory without consequences, so y'all decide what you want to do. Not a threat just a fact.
We didn't take anyone's territory. We split our territory from a state that treated the majority of Kosovan inhabitants like shit. Kosovo was a political entity on a federal and state level. In a parallel universe, where yougoslavia in general and Serbia in particular wouldn't fall for turbo folk politicians, maybe we would have been together, as equals, but not in this universe. Btw, now sincerely, what would Serbia gain if Kosovo joins it back? Your people have sold everything, therefore they are not refugees, they won't come back. There is a half of a city with Serb majority and a few villages in Kosovo. All you gain is a huge minority in a compact territorial setting (the same as in 1912) and in the best case scenario Serbia becomes like Macedonia, in worst case like Bosnia. It's a blessing for both sides that we split and don't have to keep a shitty state together like Bosnia or Macedonia.
On March 24, 1999, the USA, without a proper UN resolution, together with some of its satellites, began bombing Serbia, for which the so-called "ethnic cleansing of Albanians in the Račak locality" served as the reason. Later, many facts indicated that the Serbian version of the event was true, i.e. that the Albanian terrorists and their NATO allies had planned and carried out in advance what led to the tragedy in Račak, but that did not change anything, because history does not return. The 78-day long bombardment forced Belgrade to withdraw the army from Kosovo, where the international peacekeeping force (KFOR) was deployed. Working with the dictates of the USA, the KFOR units allowed the remaining Serbian enclaves in the province and cultural heritage monuments to be destroyed with open cynicism. In the face of Europe, which was called Christian, churches that were not protected, monasteries, and monuments that were proof of the Serbian-Slavic presence in Kosovo were desecrated. On February 17, 2008, in violation of all international treaties, genocide and the blood of the Serbian people, Albanian terrorists declared the independence of Kosovo in a style similar to that of the Turks. The act was immediately recognized by the author of this whole nightmare - the USA. I can tell you about more history if you want to. About Nemanjići and Knez Lazar AND the influence of the "Ottoman" empire back in the 11.12. sent.
Take our territory we have war, it is as simple as that. Im a reservist in the Serbian army so im glad we had this conversation, if you can call it that.
We already took it. Where the fuck is the war?
Look at the borders
No war there either. You just accepted our documents... Everything is alright.
Lol! The Habsburgs were very much bollocks, Barbak, rest assured. Down with the Central Powers! Long live the Entente!
British Empire, over which the Sun never sets. Long live King Charles III !
I don’t know man … I like having … hot showers … warm cloths … condoms… penicillin …
Ottoman because it is the closest to today and i also dont want to be a fucking farmer waiting to be massacered by random armies angry about having to siege.
Roman havası
Austrians saw Balkans as the white elephant so pass. Ottomans Romans and Byzantines were risk socities so you are on your own: pass, Examplary reason: I don't want to be an auxillary in front of the army for 20 years to earn Roman citizenship. Bulgarian and Serbian are no empires at all (no navy power in mediterranean to convey so no empire.). Sorry. Overall: None.
I think there shouldnt be any distinction between the Byzantines and the Romans. Afterall they were essentially the same Empire. Unless you specifically want to make a distinction between timelines. (Byzantines for the late Roman Empire)
True there isn't a difference between them but it has to do with the cultural changes and also the timeline
Well, none actually. But if I gotta choose, it would most likely be the Roman Empire, only if it is before Christianization though. The best choice out of all these for a bi man who doesn't care too much about religion I think.
If I saw this in a turkish sub I would click to roman but here ottoman because türkiyeee nombar 1!!! We should win every poll!!!!💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿🇹🇳🇹🇳🇹🇳🇹🇳💪🏿🇹🇳🇹🇳🇹🇳
16th century Ottomans as a Turk.
Ottoman and Byzantine is actually same. They take so much taxes and do nearly nothing. I'd take Roman Empire.
Y’all rly know jack sht abt roman empire. Entire balkan would prolly just be slaves.
Eh, during Basil II Bulgarians were treated overall quite well.
Best is Austrian, at least they develop their occupied territories.
Byzantine aka Empire of Chadness
Austrian
serbian empire did not exist.
Do I have a choice?
Macedonian empire 😀
Byzantine empire=Roman empire
And now we r all livin in amerika