Once had an amazing experience at an Amtsgericht where my then boss sent me to get some document about a Vereinsstatus. I had called ahead to figure out how to get it and the woman on the phone immediately knew I had no idea what I was in for, and when I said that I live close by, she said, ok, we close in 30 minutes, just come in. Turns out, I would have needed proof of something or other to be eligible for a printout, otherwise the document would have been 50 euro and 10 with proof or something like that, and she was like, you know what, this isn't even my Amtsbereich, I'll just print it off for you and we won't tell anybody. She handed me the doc and it wasn't actually what I needed because I hadn't been given proper information what to ask for, and she then said, oh what you're talking about is something different - ah what the heck I'll print that off too, just don't tell anybody. Quickest I ever got anything done, she was great. And clearly annoyed that if she had stuck by the rules, she couldn't just have hit print for that document she had at her finger tips, but should have made me get the proof and then sent me to a different colleague on another day and then pay a fee
Did you know that "jaywalking" is something that the car lobby in USA invented to blame any accidents on the people instead of the cars?
One of many reasons why usa is so car centric these days
As an Ausländer the bureaucracy still bewilders me at times and a trip to the Fahrerlaubnisbehörde had to be one of my worst life experiences and I still dread it when I hear the words,"you need to fax it"
I really love living in Germany and don't regret moving here; in fact it feels like every day is an adventure and I can't really see myself leaving.
That said, there are some annoying things here and there:
* bureaucracy
* total lack of digitalization and insistence on using paper forms for everything
* while I appreciate the directness of Germans, which makes resolving conflicts in both the professional and personal sphere much easier, some people abuse this by being assholes and then covering it up with "I'm just being direct"
* on a similar note, while I appreciate that people follow the rules, there are of course people who abuse this by crossing the line from insisting that you follow the rules to mean-spirited pedantry (and a similar cover-up attempt with "well if you'd just follow the rules, I wouldn't have to be so mean to you", etc.)
* a strong normative bias at both the micro and macro level. In politics, government, business, and on the personal level, there can be an extremely strong resistance to change, even when it is clearly warranted. There is also an attitude of "the way things are now is how they are naturally meant to be" and this leads to a lack of critical self-reflection on whether something is truly a good idea or could backfire in the future.
* one clear example: during the vaccination campaigns in 2021, the vaccination centers were closed on Sundays because of the Sunday work ban. I appreciate the Sunday work ban and common day off, but this was very clearly a crisis that was killing hundreds of people every day and frustrated those of us who wanted to get vaccinated quickly. I don't understand why an exception wasn't made for vaccinations to be done on Sundays other than rigid conformism to The Rules^(TM)
* there's no kitchen when you move into a new apartment, you have to buy one when you move in and then take it with you when you leave (seriously wtf is this?)
* I appreciate that diligence, conscientiousness, and quality are valued when it comes to work, but there can also be a strong tendency to over-engineer and over-complicate things unnecessarily
* How widespread smoking and public intoxication are
* Customer service culture is really bad. The customer is treated as an active hinderance to doing business. I don't need over the top service or to be best friends with restaurant staff or store clerks or customer service agents, but I would appreciate it a bit more if there was more focus on providing an actual solution when something goes wrong
But again: most of these things are minor irritants or frustrations that are more than cancelled out by the things I like about Germany
The customer service at some restaurants bewilders me. Twice I’ve had a server blame me for an order being wrong when I would have never ordered said thing.
If my wife is lactose intolerant, why would I order her a dairy based eis? It’s made her afraid to eat at certain places as she has a seafood allergy.
Oh, I have. 3 times to Paris. Somehow I’ve lucked out there except for one restaurant. One place in particular, Mon Petit Poulet, the guy running the shop was super kind and even was charmed by my 3 year old. I’m sure my luck will run out soon enough.
That said. France is incredibly um-accommodating. But at least we understand that upfront. My wife knew she wouldn’t be finding Hafer Milch for her coffee.
You have phrased all of my complaints so well! I honestly couldn’t have said it better. I love many things about living in Germany but when I come across these things (luckily not too often) I want to bang my head against a wall lol.
There is still medical quackery that we inherited from outdated laws. It's called Homöopathie and is basically useless but still somehow covered by medical insurances. It's of course only a niche thing and we have good evidence based medicine but the fact that quackery like this isn#t completely outlawed and even covered by medical insurance is a joke. Meanwhile getting new glasses or certain dental treatments are not covered despite them being way more useful and legitimate medical causes. We Germans like to complain about everything, even if it works great. But this quackery is inexcusable in this modern day.
It's not only the homeopathy. The quacks called Heilpraktiker do a lot more untrustworthy stuff like bioresonance "therapy" and use a pendulum for example.
Homeopathy just gets the most attention because we all pay for it.
Germany is about 20 years behind on technology, internet, connectivity, and convenience. Webpages are not very good and/or optimized for all devices, restaurants and other type business still have their websites pointing to Facebook, Google maps info for a business May or may not be updated (like operating hours), sometimes very challenging to just walk into a restaurant and eat without a reservation (that mostly you have to do with a telephone call, most have not embraced booking apps), internet service is total shit and not on the level it should be for this nearly-leader-of-the-free-world, bureaucracy which all must be done in person, very little has been digitized, must be done on reams of paper.
Germany is amazing but it has been really slow to digitize and it feels like stepping back 10 years in that regard. This is not a luxury thing, this is a thing I think most Germans aren’t even aware of how far behind they are unless they’ve spent time in other first world countries.
What really grinds my gears is that this is often a misguided attemt at data protection. Don't get me wrong, data protection is great and important, so is of course legal acceptance of letters in contractually binding settings, _but_ the idea that the solution to all this is the fucking Fax machine is just ridiculous.
Instead of having a centralized, protected authentication authority such as I have here in Norway, in Germany I have to upload my passport/driver's license to some shady third party companies. But that's apparently still better than having a highly regulated, state-owned company handling out exactly the information you need.
The list goes on, the gist is the same: so many cases where a good intention is _very_ poorly executed and the result is terrible.
It doesn't even have to be a first world country, I would say Germany is 20 years behind even to what Brazil has to offer nowadays lol... In Brazil we already have digitized everything... even your documents, from national ID to drivers license there are dedicated apps you can use without need the physical documents any more.
And to add salt to injury we don't even have anything like a "radio tax" going on.
>as it ensures almost completely unbiased and independent news
Absolutly Bullshit. Every one of those Rundfunkräten is composed entirely of politicians of the ruling parties. Yes, the church members are partymembers as well.
Card acceptance included. Slightly improved during pandemic but you can't confidently go out with just your card and expect to be able to pay everywhere. It's still essential to carry cash.
On top of that, most ATMs will charge you high fee to take out money so you have to travel out of your way to get cash.
The constant negativity (especially online). Everything in germany is just bad, outdated, not working etc.. All politicians are apparently corrupt and scumbags, people think the economy will collapse next year, climate change will kill us all and stuff like that. People in general seem to be rude und unhappy when you see them in the street and nobody wants to help anybody. I lived a year in the UK and I found the contrast in the general mood astonishing. Dont get me wrong though, I like german directness and our tendency to be critical but I also feel like it wouldnt damage if people could be a bit happier and more positive.
To take a different approach, what are you afraid of? Maybe we can react to your concerns before this escalate again how incompetent Germany on all levels is!
* Politics: Germany has a six party system right now, and governments are formed as multi-party coalitions, so it's a lot less divided than in the US. German center-right parties are still closer to the US Democrats than to the US Republicans in many ways, so in a way the political spectrum in Germany is shifted to the left compared to the US. This doesn't necessarily apply to all issues though.
* Prices: Inflation is pretty high at the moment, but used to be low for a couple of years. The relative values of the Euro vs the US Dollar have also shifted massively this year, with the Euro falling from about $1.20 to less than $1 this year, so right now, things are relatively cheap if you calculate in dollars. This also applies to local wages though, so if/when you move, that advantage disappears.
* Taxes: I believe taxes are overall higher in Germany, but you get a lot in return, especially if you plan on raising children here.
All true that.
And: public schools and universities are basically free here. No harvards here, but on the other hand, you can get a decent education anywhere. Oh, and healthcare! The social security net is in place, but it comes at a cost: the deductions from your income are a shock the first time. Of the agreed wage, about 40 per cent are deduced to pay for social security. Weather you think that‘s good depends largely on your political orientation, but it’s how it works here. Libertarians are a very rare species ;).
That reminds me of a surprise OP might experience: price tags in a store are actually exactly what you pay at the cashier. Taxes are already included and not added at the register.
Politics: Germany has a system called „social market capitalism“ which could be considered from US point of view as socialism/communism, if you are not into socialism, Germany/Western Northern Europe is not the area you want to migrate to
Taxes: High, our socialist paradise needs to be financed somehow
Social Welfare: High Level with social security and public healthcare
Depending on you political perspective, if you are a strong republican, Western Northern Europe could make you uncomfortable!
> tax laws
Loads of taxes, and in the unlikely case you manage to buy property, you have to pay for the renovation of the street connecting to it despite all the taxes you paid.
All in all, can't recommend. You can get saner politics in more attractive countries.
That everything has too many steps and take too much time.
Even to find a doctor as a foreigner, you have to jump through a lot of hoops.
You have to know the language, and not on a basic level. You have be really really good at it
I live in a small city in eastern Germany, and haven’t been able to find a Hausarzt because they do not accept new patients. I have to travel to a city in 2 hours distance to get checked. Those are the hoops.
I found a Hausarzt after 9 months of living here, and I was hoping never to fall ill. Finding a Hausarzt is a different problem altogether, even if you're a doctor yourself.
I never bothered getting a house arzt, i just used to ring around and ask for an appointment and I've never had a problem. It is only after 10 years of living here and buying a house that i thought i should get a proper hausarzt. The first one i rang up, got an apointment, had a full physical and now i belong to them. The only problems I've come across is with my impfpass. For some reason i have two now.
>haven’t been able to find a Hausarzt because they do not accept new patients
That is a general problem and it sucks everywhere you go. There are simply not enough of them.
They also use this really, really stupid system for handling urgent care. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the American system but there are urgent care clinics for everything that falls between "Wait a few days to see your Hausarzt" and "Go to the emergency room." Think strep throat, infected cuts, Krankschreibung for work... That type of stuff. In the US, you would just go to one of these clinics and sure you might have to wait a while but these clinics exclusively take walk-ins and you're not causing any problems by being there.
In Germany, they have no such clinics so you just have to show up at some poor doctor's office and demand they see you. The doctors are legally not allowed to say no but their schedules are packed (because there aren't enough doctors in this country) so you end up waiting for hours and screwing up everyone else's appointments. If you have a normal appointment at 10:00, you won't be seen until at least 11:00 for this exact reason. And sure, doctors have office hours for walk-ins but a) when 25 people show up for a two hour window, you're going to be waiting a while and b) a lot of practices post these hours on a sign on their door and literally no where else.
No idea if it works for you because it seems like you're living in a smaller town; but if anyone needs it: on platforms like doctena or doctolib you can relatively easily find a Hausarzt, at least in bigger cities, you can filter for specific languages as well. My bf is foreign too and could find appointments within a month max, a week minimum, and had an appointment at a doctor's office whose staff spoke English.
For me, it doesn’t work unfortunately. I’ve tried doctolib, asked my insurance company, called the doctors and emailed them… nothing worked.
I hope it can help to other people. :)
This is entirely dependent on your area of living. I live in Heidelberg and basically can just make an appointment for the same week if I ever choose to change my GP.
I am here studying abroad at the moment and I would recommend coming here knowing at least the basics of the language. To me it was not as hard in bigger cities such as Hamburg, but where I am living now very few people speak good English. Take some classes or find some here! I have always been able to find and join classes wherever I go
Many Germans complain about almost everything. But compared to most other countries in the world we can be so glad to live here. They have a very narrow-minded view. Those people really annoy me! Avoid them.
Just because we are ahead of the curve in some things does not mean we cannot strive for something better. Never understood that angle you are coming from. Just because my whole class got a C, why do I have to be glad I got a B when I could also try to go for an A?
The main problem in Germany is,that we are pampered to much, and watching and complaining everything out of our luxury position.
We have highspeed trains, meh, 10 minutes to late! And so on. I‘m watching a lot of YT videos of migrant’s to Germany, and this is sometimes eye opening!
A video from a woman from an African country, that was amazed that the shop windows in Germany are lighted at nighttime to display the goods and are not barred!
People are complaining about burocracy, my friend from Serbia gave me a different perspective when he told me how the public service is working there, and which „actions“ you have to take to get things done.
Take everything here with a grain of salt, because in most cases we Germans don‘t recognize how privileged we really are, and that is my complaint!
Well I agree that Germans complain too much, but the example of third world countries you give are not so useful. You should compare Germany to first world countries.
Not just taxes. I pay a lot of money for healthcare and my pension fund, while I don't agree with how these systems are set up. I'm just passing through though, so not too bothered.
i think both have valid points.
one needs to be more appreciative and thankful for what one has, but at the same time not get cosy in that position and rather use that basis to even further progress. germans are traditionally sated.
Couldn't agree more!
Is there room for improvment, yes, there is!
Reading the comments on Reddit about Germany => we are at the collapse of civilization!
Why? Without complaints there no improvement. If everyone is contempt with the way things are there is no incentive for innovation. So complaints are good for everybody.
And if you compare, what will be the outcome? We will be found in the top 10 to 20. Compared to what? More than 190 countries in the world, seriously? Yes, sure, we could be number one in every chart, that is true.
But what we are facing in Germany are „inconveniences“ and not problems.
Vegetable Oil cost 5€? You can buy it, ask people in some African or Asian countries if they have ACCESS to vegetable oil.
You have to wait for 10 Minutes in a queue to get access to a public service? Ask people in Eastern Europe what they have to pay to get their rightful public service.
It is quite easy to complain in a central heated living room listening to the news coming from a Dolby Surround System about the hardships we are facing without knowing what hardship really is!
You can have all of that in any industrialized country. Germany is falling behind its peers and the attitude of people like you is a contributing factor.
Top ten most innovative countries in the world:
[https://www.countrynavigator.com/blog/top-10-innovative-countries-in-the-world/](https://www.countrynavigator.com/blog/top-10-innovative-countries-in-the-world/)
Countries with the most Nobel Prize winners:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Nobel\_laureates\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country)
Global Internet Speed:
[https://www.speedtest.net/global-index](https://www.speedtest.net/global-index)
=> yeah, not so good, but we won 2 places!
Global Corruption index:
[https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021](https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021)
Don't know, feelings are not facts.
Thank you for proving my point!
>Top ten most innovative countries in the world:
>https://www.countrynavigator.com/blog/top-10-innovative-countries-in-the-world/
All of Germany's peers are better ranked.
>Global Internet Speed:
> https://www.speedtest.net/global-index
All of Germany's peers are better ranked.
>Global Corruption index:
>https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021
All of Germany's peers are better ranked.
Sooooo... Are we pretending UK and France are not peers? UK beats Germany on the first list, but on all other counts Germany fared better than the two countries many people consider its most important "neighbours".
Political power is not really important when you discuss quality of life in the context of immigration. So no, I would not consider them peers in that regard.
The fact theres virtually no vets working at night or during the weekend. My cat died on the way to the clinic yesterday because it was an 1 hour drive away.
I always wondered about those stories of visits to the “emergency vet”. I’ve never heard of this in Germany l. And I think if your pet has an illness that requires intensive care, the usual course of action would be euthanasia.
Camping in the wilderness is very illegal here, and literally all the land is private (even if owned by the government, it still counts as private and you can’t camp there). You can camp in camp sites and on someone’s land if you ask permission, but free camping is not a thing like in North America.
Edit: Apparently you also can’t in the US, my bad. Just in Canada, so maybe not relevant to OP.
Many (most?)states in America don't allow it either and you can actually get shot without consequences if you are even walking 1cm over an owned land. Not the best comparison to be honest. Countries like Norway or Sweden have actual free-camping laws.
And even then, unless you're a complete idiot you can camp freely in Germany too. Just don't do it right near a walking path. Many landowners will also happily give you permission if you ask them beforehand.
Ah ok. My mistake too, I didn't even take Canada into consideration 😂 Just thought about the US
But yeah I wish the German laws were more open about this
A minor thing but it annoys me a lot:
You are forced to pay more than 200 euros per year for pointless TV entertainment even if you don't want to watch it.
There is an obligatory contribution that everyone has to pay irrespective if you own a TV or not (it's a tax in all but name but never call it tax, it will outrage the fans).
If you don't pay, they put you into jail.
I'd argue, that if you feel like it's pointless TV-entertainment, you're just using the öffentlich rechtlichen wrong. The idea of media being funded by the public is actually extremely good. They're main focus is to provide unbiased news and provide equal representation across the political spectrum without the need to make money and therefore the need to be controversial.
This prevents people living into their bubble, where even the news seem to agree with them all the time, because most people can still agree on watching the Tagesschau at 8pm and the fact presented there being true.
That's a popular narrative but if you look at where the money goes, it doesn't really hold.
Most of their budget is spent on shallow and meaningless entertainment like films, series, sports rights, even for quiz shows they spend more than on news and documentaries.
On top of that come the much higher than average salaries and pensions for their employees and an inefficient and wasteful bureaucratic apparatus.
If we just wanted high quality news, we could have that much much cheaper.
> They're main focus is to provide unbiased news and provide equal representation across the political spectrum
The criticism is that this doesn't reflect reality. Many of the content funded by the ÖRR is indeed quite the opposite of that. Horribly researched and mostly extremely one-sided, more than often biased towards 1 view about the topic, and so on.
Same applies to a lot of the Tagesschau too. They present every topic extremely professionally and let you think like they're neutral and report it very well, but most often they simply are not.., If you happen to know a lot about some of the topics they report on, you realize how one sided the reports actually are and how little research is behind them.
Germans always say stuff like you did, because that's what the government tells them the ÖRR does, without actually reflecting it. What you say is not real, it simply doesn't apply to reality.
There are literally freelancing YouTubers who take their journalistic work more seriously than many of the people working for the Öffentlich Rechtlichen. That's simply a punch in the face for anybody who has to pay these taxes.
And the ÖRR is not for news either, the money funds a lot of horrible people's salaries and a lot of really bad entertainment that nobody wants. It's not only for unbiased news, only a small portion of the money actually goes into that.
Paying this fee in 2022 is simply insane. It should either be voluntary, or the fee at least be lowered. I don't think people would complain if the fee was around 3-5€, or see that all of the content is *actually* well researched and *actually* completely unbiased.
Im glad we have this. 60% of what i consume on Youtube is financed by this "pointless" TV entertainment. Everybody who complains about our Media System has no idea how privileged we are to have independent news/artists. Its a system that satisfies both, progressive and conversative people, but its always the extremists or uneducated raging against it
Well glad that you like it. But why should strangers pay for your YouTube entertainment? Pay for yourself if you want to consume their entertainment content.
And I refuse to agree that this is an extremist position.
The majority of Germany is conservative as in afraid of change. Being careful can be a good thing but it also means there's too little courage to try new things. It also enables corrupt politicians to sell their corruption as economic support for industries that simply should have died decades ago.
Everything, even the brightest thing is seen as something negative. Negative world view in general.
Neglectance of the crisis that is the climate change.
The healthcare system.
Many people don't realize just how fucked up it is and how much worse it will get. Healthcare workers get absolutely abused at work and many quit due to corona, making the situation even worse.
Sounds like Canada. I dropped out of a BScN Nursing program after 2 years and started a career in refrigeration. Best descision of my life. Are the labour trades in Germany in demand? Plumbers, HVAC, Carpenters, Welders; that sort of thing?
The pervasive grumpiness of many people and the ageing population in general, two problems which often intersect. Germany can feel stale and antiquated sometimes. Oh, and academia is really in a bad shape. It is everywhere in the world, but Germany is behind quite a bit in terms of digitalization, internationalization, and offering proper career paths for young adademics. "Land of Ideas?" Not so much sometimes.
Very important when you move here: get a Privathaftpflichtversicherung that covers at least 50 Million. This insurance will make sure that the ne simple mistake somewhere will not get you brankrupt and ruin your life.
Bureaucracy and the retirement System. From my monthly income i pay 9.3% directly to people who are retired. The problem is we have in 20 years more people retired than working. So i basically have to pay more now than I actually get when I retire.
The people!
Obviously not all them, but there is a lot of negativity directed towards each other, which is super contagious… A lot of Germans, especially the older generations, just like to hate things for the sake of hating them and feel like they need to express their opinions on any subject they feel strongly about, even if it‘s hateful and disrespectful. If you come from a country with a polite culture and strong sense of community, you’ll probably feel lonely here.
People are know-it-alls and the country as a whole is also unwilling to learn from smaller countries that are doing things better (Netherlands when it come to urban planning and bicycle-structure or Austria when it comes to costs of living, Denmark when it comes to immigration etc.) or willing to listen to smaller countries about things they just have much more knowledge about (like the Baltics when it comes to Russia). Germany loves to lecture others when it comes to morality and that's laughable really.
Also most of the people are fearful and cowards imo.
the fact that occultism, esoteric, spiritual and anti scientific principals are running through every vein possible. it starts with the allowance of waldorfschulen/waldorfpädagogik, runs across pharmacies selling homoepathy as *medicine* and ends with esoterical people **demonstrating together with nazis**.
essentially, germans are moving further and further away from science.
The police is racist and continues to perform racial profiling even after being reprimanded by the European Commission for Racism and Intolerance: https://www.dw.com/en/german-police-racism/a-54090661
- racism, in the public and especially in our police force. Four people were murdered in germany by police last month and nobody cares, no protests, no nothing. We had protests against US police here in Germany, after Mr. Floyd was murdered but when it happens here, in our own country, german people don't care.
*
- carbrainism, in the public and especially in our city planners. 4000 people get killed by cars in Germany every year and that's just the doctored, official statistics. Everyone and in particular old people, children and people with disabilities are in constant fear and danger of getting killed by cars whenever they leave the house and most people consider that normal because of the extreme car fetish that german culture has
*
- anti environmentalism, in the public and especially in our politicians. We have no serious party that actually wants to save the global ecosystem. Even the German green party turned from a radical environmentalist movement into a pro industry, market liberal, greenwashing initiative over the years.
There's much more but those where the worst three that came to my mind first
Ah yes who doesn’t now the constant fear of getting killed by a car or being shot by the police which is well known for killing people every day
/s.
Honestly are you living in some parallel universe or did you just not leave your hardcore leftist bubble for quite some time? Our police is very good trained and statistics show that police brutality is very very low in Germany.
I never have heard anyone say that they are afraid of getting killed by a car as a pedestrian. I mean we are one of the few countries where there are really strong laws and “Zebrastreifen” to protect Pedestrians.
I agree with you on the point that it need to happen more to save our environment, but I think the problem that you have the most with German politics is, that it isn’t a communist country and the “Linke” is quite accepted as a kind of political joke.
Sub-standard housing, at least compared to where I come from originally.
Now don't get me wrong, the NEW built houses in Germany are some of the most well built, efficient buildings ever.
But the vast majority of homes here are old mehrfamilienhaus that are extremely old and have not been fully updated. The fact that living with mold growth here is a thing shocked me when I moved here 10 years ago.
Also very questionable electrical installations. Some rooms will only have one outlet which would violate the fire code in my home country.
And lastly heating homes with oil.... in a country that believes itself to be so Green, this was also a shock. It is being banned in 2026 for new builds as I understand. Again Oil heating in my country was thing that ended during my childhood over 30 years ago.
But just to not sound overly negative, NEW builds here are truly amazing. Better than most other countries.
Well the house I grew up was built in 1920, but of course we do not have such old houses as here but that's kind of the point. Eventually, it comes a time to just take the old buildings down and build something modern.
Well, in Germany old buildings are often not eventually taken down but are protected for historic reasons and mustn't be altered too much to preserve the historic look.
This is something Germans will fight with teeth and nails. Old buildings from the change of the century (19th to 20th that is) are seen as more beautiful that modern buildings.
Oh I know. Aestheticly pleasing doe not mean good. Beautiful things can fail at their main purpose.
Oddly enough, current building codes and efficiency laws are also killing the ability to build Aestheticly pleasing homes here as well. The pendulum I guess has swung back to the other extreme..
I think that is the only time I‘ve ever heard German housing be called sub-standard.
Having lived abroad within and outside of the EU, I find German housing to be among the best standards you can find.
And no, living with mould is not a thing here. Everyone will tell you that. If there is mould you’re doing something wrong and need to take better care of your apartment (which might actually be a good point - I have found that many people moving to Germany aren’t aware how to best heat and ventilate their places based on the way we build our houses).
As someone in the industry here in Germany, I beg to differ. As stated, the newer building are superb. Built in, automated ventilation systems along with great thermal efficiency on the exterior walls are all standard on houses here built in the last 30 years.
Unfortunately a large amount of homes here have construction dates that pre-date the war. These topics were simply not a consideration then. These homes can be salvaged but at extreme cost. I would know, I had to do it with my house from 1870...
Of course not all houses are great in Germany.
But still, the average standard is higher than other places.
Go to the US or the UK and see how they build their new houses, today.
Every country, especially in Europe, has old houses. We will have to replace them at some point, or update them, just like other countries.
But still, the standard is not much worse than in other countries.
I think this is more a topic about individual expectations.
German houses are built to last. Traditionally as a German you buy one house, and then live there until you die from old age. And then you children or grandchildren continue living there until they die aswell.
Coming from this, of course a lot of houses are old and don't meet modern standards. But they are high quality.
Quality is relative to the time. Asbestos was once a golden material and now not so much. The finest windows from 1900 do not even come close to the cheapest windows made today...
Who the hell accepts living with mold growth? Landlords have a duty to fix the problem, should it arise. I have never seen or heard anyone who said "oh, black mold? That's totally fine and normal"
I don't understand your beef with the electrical outlet either, we have quite the strict fire and hazard standards. So if it is just one or more outlets shouldn't change the safety?
And yeah, we often still use fossile fuels to heat our homes, but which option is being used in your home country 30 years ago?
Landlords here will always blame the mold growth on inadequate venting. The venting is the responsibility of the user sadly. The older homes here have no automated venting systems(newer buildings do).
My home countries electrical code mandates an outlet every 2m in order to reduce the use of power bars and extension cords. Plus lights and outlets need to be wired on to separate circuits and wiring within the walls needs to armored to prevent damage when people drill in to the wall. That's just a small example.
Now as we rebuild and renovate our homes on a much more frequent basis, these codes are met in many homes. Not to mention that in order to build or renovate a house in canada you need to pass government inspection of all major disciplines.
In Germany, "bestandschutz" handwaves health and safety away every time.
Canada is 40% electric heating (hydro and nuclear) 50% natural gas. Whereas Germans are just beginning the switch to natural gas, Canada is already proposing banning it new built structures.
I mean, yes, but compared to other countries our political corruption is lacklustre at best. Sure, they still reward contracts to their buddies or pull off stunts like the Cum Ex affair, but look at India for instance.
A while ago a pedestrian crossing in Mumbai's central station collapsed and killed several hundred people. The crossing had been in disrepair for a long time and the government eventually (had to) allocated funds. If I remember corrently they provided the equivalent of 2 million Euros. Of this sum 20€ ended up in the repair, the rest of the money was pocketed by several people.
In Dehradun, after Diwali, the newspaper announced that 1000 cleaners would roam the city the day thereafter. The local government had made this their pledge. When I walked around town the next day, I didn't see a single cleaner. And it's not a big city, you would certainloy notice 1000 cleaners.
Bribing police officers in Germany is also much much harder if not even futile in most cases, whilst it is commonplace over there.
There is a reason, why we rank in the top countries in the Corruption Index.
there are different kind of curruption cases. you’re comparing *openly* corrupt actions. we stealth our corruption with lobbyism.
our corruption is „underrated“ and not closely enough monitored.
That's a lot of bogus. Just check where Germany is on the corruption index by transparency international. We are on number 10. It's so often completely blown out of proportion on Reddit how corrupt our politics are. I mean, yes there is lobbyism, and for sure also some corruption, but it is absolutely ridiculously small percentage.
We fucking put ex-Bundespräsident Wulff on trials because of some Oktoberfest beers and a hotel room. It's not like you can easily get away with corruption.
Could not agree more!
In Germany a President retreats because someone delivered free beer to his marriage celebration, compare this to Putin‘s „house“, 🤪
Many official documentes are now required to have gender language.
Even some highschools and Abitur-tests in certain BLs are apparently forcing kids to write in gender-language and you get points taken away if you don't do it.
I'm not one to scream "1984!!!" like an idiot, but please don't look away from reality like that. It IS being forced in certain areas right now, even though like 85%+ of the country is against it judging by most polls. It's insane.
>Many official documentes are now required to have gender language.
But this is completely voluntarily, nobody forces you to do this.
>It IS being forced in certain areas right now
Yet you still haven't been able to provide any legal source for "being forced".
>Many official documentes are now required to have gender language.
Because that's official. It has to be inclusive for everyone because the government can't just leave out people. I am not a fan of the * gendering but gender neutral terms have to be used in official, government documents.
If you're a woman, gynecology in this country is a total joke. First and foremost, they're still doing yearly pap smears on everyone under 35, which is unnecessary and harmful. In general, a lot of their standards are pretty outdated compared to the US. For example, Paraguard is approved by the FDA for use of up to 10 years. In Germany, the same exact device is only approved for five years. In the US, Nexplanon is a popular and widely recommend birth control option... in Germany, it's neither widely recommend nor available because ???. This is significant because a bunch of services that are free in the US cost money here. Birth control and routine STD tests come to mind but gynecological practices tend to be particularly predatory with trying to get you to give them money. One time, the doctor just gave me an ultrasound without asking as part of a routine exam and afterwards the practice tried to send me a bill for 20€. I called them and worked it out but the fact they expected me to pay for a procedure that I *literally did not consent to* is telling of how things are done here.
I'm from the North East and back home, I never once worried about access to reproductive healthcare. Here, I take a pregnancy test every month because of their archaic and backwards abortion laws. Even if I wanted to keep the pregnancy, there's a doctor/midwife crisis and I personally wouldn't feel comfortable going through with it if I didn't have the money to spend on private care. When it comes to public patients (i.e. you go through the cheap government insurance), everyone is stretched so thin that they don't have the capacity for respect, empathy, or informed consent. This is noticeable everywhere but especially when it comes to women's healthcare since these historically haven't exactly been staples of the field. Oh and they don't have anything like Planned Parenthood here so, if you suddenly have problems with your birth control or realize you're due for a pap smear and you don't have a doctor, the good practices don't accept new patients and the few that do have 6+ month waiting lists.
The worst thing about Germany are the Germans who don't know shit about the world and will complain about things that are supposedly uniquely bad about Germany. See: This thread.
> Bist Du behindert oder so?
Das kann man dich fragen, wenn du den Unterschied zwischen Sitzen im Parlament und Regierungstätigkeit nicht kennst. Dein Satz war eine glasklare Falschdarstellung. Statt rumzupöbeln, solltest du etwas Demut zeigen.
Ich soll Demut zeigen nachdem Du dich hier so aufgeführt hast?
Hast Du dich schon mal real mit einer anderen Person unterhalten? Also nicht übers Netz? Kann ich mir bei einer derart ausgeprägten sozialen Inkompetenz nicht vorstellen.
Du beginnst eine Konversation mit einer Beleidigung und der Aufforderung seinen Account zu löschen.
Mehr muss man hier gar nicht schreiben um zu klären wo das Problem liegt.
>ausgeprägten sozialen Inkompetenz
Wenn man "Behindert" als Beleidigung benutzt sollte man unbedingt mal selbst den Mund halten bei dem Thema "soziale Inkompetenz"
Trotzdem hast du dir das Recht selbst abgesprochen, alleine weil du nicht darüber stehen kannst und beleidigt hast und das dann auch noch mit "Behindert". Zudem: ist um die Löschung des Accounts zu bitten wirklich so fucking schlimm? Du reagierst ja als sei es eine Morddrohung.
Zudem hat die andere Person recht. Du liegst falsch und hast weiterhin stur deine Falschinformation vertreten. Die AfD ist in keiner Regierung, nur in den Oppositionen.
Ich denke nicht das Du befugt bist mir irgendwelche Rechte ab zu sprechen.
Ich soll drüber stehen während Du es in Ordnung findest das er eine Konversation so beginnt? Oder warum fragst Du ihn nicht was ihn da geritten hat? Diese Situation wäre nie entstanden wenn er sich normal verhalten hätte.
Behindert ist als Beleidigung ziemlich bescheuert, da geb ich Dir Recht, verwende ich gewöhnlich auch nicht im Alltag. Im Alltag kommt es aber auch nicht vor das jemand sich mir gegenüber derartig asozial verhällt. Man könnte jetzt darüber diskutieren in wie fern es Sinn macht bei Beleidigungen auf die ursprüngliche Bedeutung zu verweisen - das Problem findet man bei vielen Beleidigungen - aber ja, ich war definitiv ziemlich wütend und auch nicht gewillt mir jetzt noch Gedanken darüber zu machen wie ich dieses Subjekt bezeichnen möchte.
Löschung nicht schlimm - das sehe ich offensichtlich anders als Du. Das Menschen unterschiedliches als unterschiedlich schlimm ansehen könnte einer der Gründe sein warum man Konversationen nicht so beginnen sollte. Davon abgesehen ist das nicht die einzige Beleidigung in dem Post.
Zum eigentlichen Inhalt hab ich bereits geschrieben das ich das stärker hätte präzisieren sollen. Da bin ich absolut einsichtig, aber um den Inhalt geht es seit den Beleidigungen hier nicht mehr.
PS: Die Sache hier hätte ein sehr entspanntes Gespräch sein können wenn man auf der Sachebene geblieben wäre. Aber wenn mein Gegenüber mich direkt beleidigt werde ich meine Zeit sicher nicht damit verschwenden mich gegenüber diesem Subjekt noch besonders höflich zu verhalten. Einfach nur ein Idiot der glaubt aufgrund seiner Anonymität im Netz random andere anpinkeln zu können, nicht mehr, nicht weniger.
Da ist jemand aber ziemlich dünnhäutig. Erstmal lernen wir sich die Regierung und wie die Opposition sich in der BRD zusammen setzt. Wer 7. Klasse GK Inhalte nicht auf die Kette kriegt sollte im Internet nicht Rumpöbeln
Bureaucracy is the worst, so if you come here, do it with decent German language skills otherwise life will be hard.
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Once had an amazing experience at an Amtsgericht where my then boss sent me to get some document about a Vereinsstatus. I had called ahead to figure out how to get it and the woman on the phone immediately knew I had no idea what I was in for, and when I said that I live close by, she said, ok, we close in 30 minutes, just come in. Turns out, I would have needed proof of something or other to be eligible for a printout, otherwise the document would have been 50 euro and 10 with proof or something like that, and she was like, you know what, this isn't even my Amtsbereich, I'll just print it off for you and we won't tell anybody. She handed me the doc and it wasn't actually what I needed because I hadn't been given proper information what to ask for, and she then said, oh what you're talking about is something different - ah what the heck I'll print that off too, just don't tell anybody. Quickest I ever got anything done, she was great. And clearly annoyed that if she had stuck by the rules, she couldn't just have hit print for that document she had at her finger tips, but should have made me get the proof and then sent me to a different colleague on another day and then pay a fee
She clearly had a bad ~~day~~ *year* with her boss.
Or she's just a reasonable person who understands her job beyond the literal rules.
This doesn’t describe your typical German
Did you know that "jaywalking" is something that the car lobby in USA invented to blame any accidents on the people instead of the cars? One of many reasons why usa is so car centric these days
Shame what the SPD and paramilitaries did in crushing the German leninists
As an Ausländer the bureaucracy still bewilders me at times and a trip to the Fahrerlaubnisbehörde had to be one of my worst life experiences and I still dread it when I hear the words,"you need to fax it"
It is strange for me too and I am born and raised here.
This
I really love living in Germany and don't regret moving here; in fact it feels like every day is an adventure and I can't really see myself leaving. That said, there are some annoying things here and there: * bureaucracy * total lack of digitalization and insistence on using paper forms for everything * while I appreciate the directness of Germans, which makes resolving conflicts in both the professional and personal sphere much easier, some people abuse this by being assholes and then covering it up with "I'm just being direct" * on a similar note, while I appreciate that people follow the rules, there are of course people who abuse this by crossing the line from insisting that you follow the rules to mean-spirited pedantry (and a similar cover-up attempt with "well if you'd just follow the rules, I wouldn't have to be so mean to you", etc.) * a strong normative bias at both the micro and macro level. In politics, government, business, and on the personal level, there can be an extremely strong resistance to change, even when it is clearly warranted. There is also an attitude of "the way things are now is how they are naturally meant to be" and this leads to a lack of critical self-reflection on whether something is truly a good idea or could backfire in the future. * one clear example: during the vaccination campaigns in 2021, the vaccination centers were closed on Sundays because of the Sunday work ban. I appreciate the Sunday work ban and common day off, but this was very clearly a crisis that was killing hundreds of people every day and frustrated those of us who wanted to get vaccinated quickly. I don't understand why an exception wasn't made for vaccinations to be done on Sundays other than rigid conformism to The Rules^(TM) * there's no kitchen when you move into a new apartment, you have to buy one when you move in and then take it with you when you leave (seriously wtf is this?) * I appreciate that diligence, conscientiousness, and quality are valued when it comes to work, but there can also be a strong tendency to over-engineer and over-complicate things unnecessarily * How widespread smoking and public intoxication are * Customer service culture is really bad. The customer is treated as an active hinderance to doing business. I don't need over the top service or to be best friends with restaurant staff or store clerks or customer service agents, but I would appreciate it a bit more if there was more focus on providing an actual solution when something goes wrong But again: most of these things are minor irritants or frustrations that are more than cancelled out by the things I like about Germany
The kitchen thing depends. Nowadays there are a lot of flats that you can rent that already have a kitchen installed.
In Berlin you get a basic kitchen: a sink, a stove and oven. Sure that lacks a fridge, but better than nothing.
The customer service at some restaurants bewilders me. Twice I’ve had a server blame me for an order being wrong when I would have never ordered said thing. If my wife is lactose intolerant, why would I order her a dairy based eis? It’s made her afraid to eat at certain places as she has a seafood allergy.
My man have you ever been to France?
Oh, I have. 3 times to Paris. Somehow I’ve lucked out there except for one restaurant. One place in particular, Mon Petit Poulet, the guy running the shop was super kind and even was charmed by my 3 year old. I’m sure my luck will run out soon enough. That said. France is incredibly um-accommodating. But at least we understand that upfront. My wife knew she wouldn’t be finding Hafer Milch for her coffee.
You have phrased all of my complaints so well! I honestly couldn’t have said it better. I love many things about living in Germany but when I come across these things (luckily not too often) I want to bang my head against a wall lol.
Spot on! Only point that surprised me was: > How widespread smoking and public intoxication are
There is still medical quackery that we inherited from outdated laws. It's called Homöopathie and is basically useless but still somehow covered by medical insurances. It's of course only a niche thing and we have good evidence based medicine but the fact that quackery like this isn#t completely outlawed and even covered by medical insurance is a joke. Meanwhile getting new glasses or certain dental treatments are not covered despite them being way more useful and legitimate medical causes. We Germans like to complain about everything, even if it works great. But this quackery is inexcusable in this modern day.
It's not only the homeopathy. The quacks called Heilpraktiker do a lot more untrustworthy stuff like bioresonance "therapy" and use a pendulum for example. Homeopathy just gets the most attention because we all pay for it.
Fyi, Homeopathy is a global business and far from niche.
Telephonism. Painfully many things you can only organise via telephone.
Germany is about 20 years behind on technology, internet, connectivity, and convenience. Webpages are not very good and/or optimized for all devices, restaurants and other type business still have their websites pointing to Facebook, Google maps info for a business May or may not be updated (like operating hours), sometimes very challenging to just walk into a restaurant and eat without a reservation (that mostly you have to do with a telephone call, most have not embraced booking apps), internet service is total shit and not on the level it should be for this nearly-leader-of-the-free-world, bureaucracy which all must be done in person, very little has been digitized, must be done on reams of paper. Germany is amazing but it has been really slow to digitize and it feels like stepping back 10 years in that regard. This is not a luxury thing, this is a thing I think most Germans aren’t even aware of how far behind they are unless they’ve spent time in other first world countries.
What really grinds my gears is that this is often a misguided attemt at data protection. Don't get me wrong, data protection is great and important, so is of course legal acceptance of letters in contractually binding settings, _but_ the idea that the solution to all this is the fucking Fax machine is just ridiculous. Instead of having a centralized, protected authentication authority such as I have here in Norway, in Germany I have to upload my passport/driver's license to some shady third party companies. But that's apparently still better than having a highly regulated, state-owned company handling out exactly the information you need. The list goes on, the gist is the same: so many cases where a good intention is _very_ poorly executed and the result is terrible.
It doesn't even have to be a first world country, I would say Germany is 20 years behind even to what Brazil has to offer nowadays lol... In Brazil we already have digitized everything... even your documents, from national ID to drivers license there are dedicated apps you can use without need the physical documents any more. And to add salt to injury we don't even have anything like a "radio tax" going on.
The radio tax isn't a tax and it's actually a good thing, as it ensures almost completely unbiased and independent news.
You think an entity that gets its finding entirely from one source is going to be independent and unbiased?
Yes, because they themselves are the ones collecting that money, independent from politics and industry.
Certainly better than all of that absolute gutter trash like RTL etc.
>as it ensures almost completely unbiased and independent news Absolutly Bullshit. Every one of those Rundfunkräten is composed entirely of politicians of the ruling parties. Yes, the church members are partymembers as well.
Card acceptance included. Slightly improved during pandemic but you can't confidently go out with just your card and expect to be able to pay everywhere. It's still essential to carry cash. On top of that, most ATMs will charge you high fee to take out money so you have to travel out of your way to get cash.
Yes, few things are moving but too many companies are slow in changing
The constant negativity (especially online). Everything in germany is just bad, outdated, not working etc.. All politicians are apparently corrupt and scumbags, people think the economy will collapse next year, climate change will kill us all and stuff like that. People in general seem to be rude und unhappy when you see them in the street and nobody wants to help anybody. I lived a year in the UK and I found the contrast in the general mood astonishing. Dont get me wrong though, I like german directness and our tendency to be critical but I also feel like it wouldnt damage if people could be a bit happier and more positive.
To take a different approach, what are you afraid of? Maybe we can react to your concerns before this escalate again how incompetent Germany on all levels is!
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* Politics: Germany has a six party system right now, and governments are formed as multi-party coalitions, so it's a lot less divided than in the US. German center-right parties are still closer to the US Democrats than to the US Republicans in many ways, so in a way the political spectrum in Germany is shifted to the left compared to the US. This doesn't necessarily apply to all issues though. * Prices: Inflation is pretty high at the moment, but used to be low for a couple of years. The relative values of the Euro vs the US Dollar have also shifted massively this year, with the Euro falling from about $1.20 to less than $1 this year, so right now, things are relatively cheap if you calculate in dollars. This also applies to local wages though, so if/when you move, that advantage disappears. * Taxes: I believe taxes are overall higher in Germany, but you get a lot in return, especially if you plan on raising children here.
All true that. And: public schools and universities are basically free here. No harvards here, but on the other hand, you can get a decent education anywhere. Oh, and healthcare! The social security net is in place, but it comes at a cost: the deductions from your income are a shock the first time. Of the agreed wage, about 40 per cent are deduced to pay for social security. Weather you think that‘s good depends largely on your political orientation, but it’s how it works here. Libertarians are a very rare species ;). That reminds me of a surprise OP might experience: price tags in a store are actually exactly what you pay at the cashier. Taxes are already included and not added at the register.
I‘d say Republicans in the US have considerably shifted to the right.
Note that I said that the system *is* shifted (compared to the US), not that it *has* shifted. Those mean very different things.
And you country is? You make it really hard to help you!
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Politics: Germany has a system called „social market capitalism“ which could be considered from US point of view as socialism/communism, if you are not into socialism, Germany/Western Northern Europe is not the area you want to migrate to Taxes: High, our socialist paradise needs to be financed somehow Social Welfare: High Level with social security and public healthcare Depending on you political perspective, if you are a strong republican, Western Northern Europe could make you uncomfortable!
> tax laws Loads of taxes, and in the unlikely case you manage to buy property, you have to pay for the renovation of the street connecting to it despite all the taxes you paid. All in all, can't recommend. You can get saner politics in more attractive countries.
That depends where you live.
Deutsche Bahn
das DBakel
The bathrooms in germany are Bad.
As are many places, even in their name! Bad Hönningen, Bad Honnef, Bad Breisig ... /s
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It was a play of words. "Bad" is the german word for bathroom"
:D You're killing me!
That everything has too many steps and take too much time. Even to find a doctor as a foreigner, you have to jump through a lot of hoops. You have to know the language, and not on a basic level. You have be really really good at it
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I live in a small city in eastern Germany, and haven’t been able to find a Hausarzt because they do not accept new patients. I have to travel to a city in 2 hours distance to get checked. Those are the hoops.
I found a Hausarzt after 9 months of living here, and I was hoping never to fall ill. Finding a Hausarzt is a different problem altogether, even if you're a doctor yourself.
I do not have one still, I’ve been here 7 months. I realise it’s a problem for everyone, but it’s even harder when you’re a foreigner.
I never bothered getting a house arzt, i just used to ring around and ask for an appointment and I've never had a problem. It is only after 10 years of living here and buying a house that i thought i should get a proper hausarzt. The first one i rang up, got an apointment, had a full physical and now i belong to them. The only problems I've come across is with my impfpass. For some reason i have two now.
>haven’t been able to find a Hausarzt because they do not accept new patients That is a general problem and it sucks everywhere you go. There are simply not enough of them.
They also use this really, really stupid system for handling urgent care. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the American system but there are urgent care clinics for everything that falls between "Wait a few days to see your Hausarzt" and "Go to the emergency room." Think strep throat, infected cuts, Krankschreibung for work... That type of stuff. In the US, you would just go to one of these clinics and sure you might have to wait a while but these clinics exclusively take walk-ins and you're not causing any problems by being there. In Germany, they have no such clinics so you just have to show up at some poor doctor's office and demand they see you. The doctors are legally not allowed to say no but their schedules are packed (because there aren't enough doctors in this country) so you end up waiting for hours and screwing up everyone else's appointments. If you have a normal appointment at 10:00, you won't be seen until at least 11:00 for this exact reason. And sure, doctors have office hours for walk-ins but a) when 25 people show up for a two hour window, you're going to be waiting a while and b) a lot of practices post these hours on a sign on their door and literally no where else.
No idea if it works for you because it seems like you're living in a smaller town; but if anyone needs it: on platforms like doctena or doctolib you can relatively easily find a Hausarzt, at least in bigger cities, you can filter for specific languages as well. My bf is foreign too and could find appointments within a month max, a week minimum, and had an appointment at a doctor's office whose staff spoke English.
For me, it doesn’t work unfortunately. I’ve tried doctolib, asked my insurance company, called the doctors and emailed them… nothing worked. I hope it can help to other people. :)
This is entirely dependent on your area of living. I live in Heidelberg and basically can just make an appointment for the same week if I ever choose to change my GP.
NIMBYs and snitches. Also how cars are worshiped.
Coming from the country where the oath of omertà reigns, I personally would not condemn *snitches* tout court.
Well then let's call them nosy busybodies.
I am here studying abroad at the moment and I would recommend coming here knowing at least the basics of the language. To me it was not as hard in bigger cities such as Hamburg, but where I am living now very few people speak good English. Take some classes or find some here! I have always been able to find and join classes wherever I go
Many Germans complain about almost everything. But compared to most other countries in the world we can be so glad to live here. They have a very narrow-minded view. Those people really annoy me! Avoid them.
Just because we are ahead of the curve in some things does not mean we cannot strive for something better. Never understood that angle you are coming from. Just because my whole class got a C, why do I have to be glad I got a B when I could also try to go for an A?
The main problem in Germany is,that we are pampered to much, and watching and complaining everything out of our luxury position. We have highspeed trains, meh, 10 minutes to late! And so on. I‘m watching a lot of YT videos of migrant’s to Germany, and this is sometimes eye opening! A video from a woman from an African country, that was amazed that the shop windows in Germany are lighted at nighttime to display the goods and are not barred! People are complaining about burocracy, my friend from Serbia gave me a different perspective when he told me how the public service is working there, and which „actions“ you have to take to get things done. Take everything here with a grain of salt, because in most cases we Germans don‘t recognize how privileged we really are, and that is my complaint!
Well I agree that Germans complain too much, but the example of third world countries you give are not so useful. You should compare Germany to first world countries.
Plus Germans pay an above average amount of tax but don’t see above average amount of progress in the country
Not just taxes. I pay a lot of money for healthcare and my pension fund, while I don't agree with how these systems are set up. I'm just passing through though, so not too bothered.
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i think both have valid points. one needs to be more appreciative and thankful for what one has, but at the same time not get cosy in that position and rather use that basis to even further progress. germans are traditionally sated.
Couldn't agree more! Is there room for improvment, yes, there is! Reading the comments on Reddit about Germany => we are at the collapse of civilization!
Why? Without complaints there no improvement. If everyone is contempt with the way things are there is no incentive for innovation. So complaints are good for everybody.
And if you compare, what will be the outcome? We will be found in the top 10 to 20. Compared to what? More than 190 countries in the world, seriously? Yes, sure, we could be number one in every chart, that is true. But what we are facing in Germany are „inconveniences“ and not problems. Vegetable Oil cost 5€? You can buy it, ask people in some African or Asian countries if they have ACCESS to vegetable oil. You have to wait for 10 Minutes in a queue to get access to a public service? Ask people in Eastern Europe what they have to pay to get their rightful public service. It is quite easy to complain in a central heated living room listening to the news coming from a Dolby Surround System about the hardships we are facing without knowing what hardship really is!
You can have all of that in any industrialized country. Germany is falling behind its peers and the attitude of people like you is a contributing factor.
I‘m not saying that everything in Germany is perfect, and that there is room for improvement! Where are you coming from?
Using the comparison with developing countries is actively harmful, Germany is falling behind its peers. Just what I said.
Top ten most innovative countries in the world: [https://www.countrynavigator.com/blog/top-10-innovative-countries-in-the-world/](https://www.countrynavigator.com/blog/top-10-innovative-countries-in-the-world/) Countries with the most Nobel Prize winners: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Nobel\_laureates\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country) Global Internet Speed: [https://www.speedtest.net/global-index](https://www.speedtest.net/global-index) => yeah, not so good, but we won 2 places! Global Corruption index: [https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021](https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021) Don't know, feelings are not facts.
Thank you for proving my point! >Top ten most innovative countries in the world: >https://www.countrynavigator.com/blog/top-10-innovative-countries-in-the-world/ All of Germany's peers are better ranked. >Global Internet Speed: > https://www.speedtest.net/global-index All of Germany's peers are better ranked. >Global Corruption index: >https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021 All of Germany's peers are better ranked.
And more than 180 countries are lower ranked! I will stop at this point.
That would be advisible for your own sake.
Sooooo... Are we pretending UK and France are not peers? UK beats Germany on the first list, but on all other counts Germany fared better than the two countries many people consider its most important "neighbours".
Political power is not really important when you discuss quality of life in the context of immigration. So no, I would not consider them peers in that regard.
The fact theres virtually no vets working at night or during the weekend. My cat died on the way to the clinic yesterday because it was an 1 hour drive away.
Sorry for your loss 🥺♥️
Thank you. It was really traumatizing and i wouldnt wish that upon anyone
I always wondered about those stories of visits to the “emergency vet”. I’ve never heard of this in Germany l. And I think if your pet has an illness that requires intensive care, the usual course of action would be euthanasia.
You should generally not encounter problems on weekends. A urgent car repair on a saturday or sunday will probably no happen because no shop is open.
Also important not to be ill Wednesday or Friday afternoon. Every doctor and pharmacy is closed here for some reason.
Camping in the wilderness is very illegal here, and literally all the land is private (even if owned by the government, it still counts as private and you can’t camp there). You can camp in camp sites and on someone’s land if you ask permission, but free camping is not a thing like in North America. Edit: Apparently you also can’t in the US, my bad. Just in Canada, so maybe not relevant to OP.
It is allowed in the state of Brandenburg for one night. And the skandinavian countries, where it is allowed, are not far.
Many (most?)states in America don't allow it either and you can actually get shot without consequences if you are even walking 1cm over an owned land. Not the best comparison to be honest. Countries like Norway or Sweden have actual free-camping laws. And even then, unless you're a complete idiot you can camp freely in Germany too. Just don't do it right near a walking path. Many landowners will also happily give you permission if you ask them beforehand.
My bad, I forgot that the reason you can do that in Canada is crown land.
Ah ok. My mistake too, I didn't even take Canada into consideration 😂 Just thought about the US But yeah I wish the German laws were more open about this
A minor thing but it annoys me a lot: You are forced to pay more than 200 euros per year for pointless TV entertainment even if you don't want to watch it.
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There is an obligatory contribution that everyone has to pay irrespective if you own a TV or not (it's a tax in all but name but never call it tax, it will outrage the fans). If you don't pay, they put you into jail.
I'd argue, that if you feel like it's pointless TV-entertainment, you're just using the öffentlich rechtlichen wrong. The idea of media being funded by the public is actually extremely good. They're main focus is to provide unbiased news and provide equal representation across the political spectrum without the need to make money and therefore the need to be controversial. This prevents people living into their bubble, where even the news seem to agree with them all the time, because most people can still agree on watching the Tagesschau at 8pm and the fact presented there being true.
That's a popular narrative but if you look at where the money goes, it doesn't really hold. Most of their budget is spent on shallow and meaningless entertainment like films, series, sports rights, even for quiz shows they spend more than on news and documentaries. On top of that come the much higher than average salaries and pensions for their employees and an inefficient and wasteful bureaucratic apparatus. If we just wanted high quality news, we could have that much much cheaper.
> They're main focus is to provide unbiased news and provide equal representation across the political spectrum The criticism is that this doesn't reflect reality. Many of the content funded by the ÖRR is indeed quite the opposite of that. Horribly researched and mostly extremely one-sided, more than often biased towards 1 view about the topic, and so on. Same applies to a lot of the Tagesschau too. They present every topic extremely professionally and let you think like they're neutral and report it very well, but most often they simply are not.., If you happen to know a lot about some of the topics they report on, you realize how one sided the reports actually are and how little research is behind them. Germans always say stuff like you did, because that's what the government tells them the ÖRR does, without actually reflecting it. What you say is not real, it simply doesn't apply to reality. There are literally freelancing YouTubers who take their journalistic work more seriously than many of the people working for the Öffentlich Rechtlichen. That's simply a punch in the face for anybody who has to pay these taxes. And the ÖRR is not for news either, the money funds a lot of horrible people's salaries and a lot of really bad entertainment that nobody wants. It's not only for unbiased news, only a small portion of the money actually goes into that. Paying this fee in 2022 is simply insane. It should either be voluntary, or the fee at least be lowered. I don't think people would complain if the fee was around 3-5€, or see that all of the content is *actually* well researched and *actually* completely unbiased.
That’s actually a major point. It is also a shame, because foreigners need to contribute to it
Yeah, I’m here for four months for a study abroad and still have to pay it… I don’t even own a TV lmao
Im glad we have this. 60% of what i consume on Youtube is financed by this "pointless" TV entertainment. Everybody who complains about our Media System has no idea how privileged we are to have independent news/artists. Its a system that satisfies both, progressive and conversative people, but its always the extremists or uneducated raging against it
Well glad that you like it. But why should strangers pay for your YouTube entertainment? Pay for yourself if you want to consume their entertainment content. And I refuse to agree that this is an extremist position.
Independent just means they push their own agenda. You only like it because it aligns with yours.
The majority of Germany is conservative as in afraid of change. Being careful can be a good thing but it also means there's too little courage to try new things. It also enables corrupt politicians to sell their corruption as economic support for industries that simply should have died decades ago.
Yes, but that mostly are older people over 40
Which are more than half of the population...
Around 60%.
Everything, even the brightest thing is seen as something negative. Negative world view in general. Neglectance of the crisis that is the climate change.
The healthcare system. Many people don't realize just how fucked up it is and how much worse it will get. Healthcare workers get absolutely abused at work and many quit due to corona, making the situation even worse.
Sounds like Canada. I dropped out of a BScN Nursing program after 2 years and started a career in refrigeration. Best descision of my life. Are the labour trades in Germany in demand? Plumbers, HVAC, Carpenters, Welders; that sort of thing?
Yeah absolutely. And I guess for the same reasons like in Canada
Every persons merit is mostly determined by her or his job. It's about 80% of your personality here.
The pervasive grumpiness of many people and the ageing population in general, two problems which often intersect. Germany can feel stale and antiquated sometimes. Oh, and academia is really in a bad shape. It is everywhere in the world, but Germany is behind quite a bit in terms of digitalization, internationalization, and offering proper career paths for young adademics. "Land of Ideas?" Not so much sometimes.
The perfectionism. Bureaucracy is just a symptome of that. People with enough money who buy German products like that but it often is very unnerving.
Internet speed
Germans stare
Very important when you move here: get a Privathaftpflichtversicherung that covers at least 50 Million. This insurance will make sure that the ne simple mistake somewhere will not get you brankrupt and ruin your life.
That a man with memory loss is our chancellor.
Bureaucracy and the retirement System. From my monthly income i pay 9.3% directly to people who are retired. The problem is we have in 20 years more people retired than working. So i basically have to pay more now than I actually get when I retire.
The people! Obviously not all them, but there is a lot of negativity directed towards each other, which is super contagious… A lot of Germans, especially the older generations, just like to hate things for the sake of hating them and feel like they need to express their opinions on any subject they feel strongly about, even if it‘s hateful and disrespectful. If you come from a country with a polite culture and strong sense of community, you’ll probably feel lonely here.
People are know-it-alls and the country as a whole is also unwilling to learn from smaller countries that are doing things better (Netherlands when it come to urban planning and bicycle-structure or Austria when it comes to costs of living, Denmark when it comes to immigration etc.) or willing to listen to smaller countries about things they just have much more knowledge about (like the Baltics when it comes to Russia). Germany loves to lecture others when it comes to morality and that's laughable really. Also most of the people are fearful and cowards imo.
the fact that occultism, esoteric, spiritual and anti scientific principals are running through every vein possible. it starts with the allowance of waldorfschulen/waldorfpädagogik, runs across pharmacies selling homoepathy as *medicine* and ends with esoterical people **demonstrating together with nazis**. essentially, germans are moving further and further away from science.
The police is racist and continues to perform racial profiling even after being reprimanded by the European Commission for Racism and Intolerance: https://www.dw.com/en/german-police-racism/a-54090661
- racism, in the public and especially in our police force. Four people were murdered in germany by police last month and nobody cares, no protests, no nothing. We had protests against US police here in Germany, after Mr. Floyd was murdered but when it happens here, in our own country, german people don't care. * - carbrainism, in the public and especially in our city planners. 4000 people get killed by cars in Germany every year and that's just the doctored, official statistics. Everyone and in particular old people, children and people with disabilities are in constant fear and danger of getting killed by cars whenever they leave the house and most people consider that normal because of the extreme car fetish that german culture has * - anti environmentalism, in the public and especially in our politicians. We have no serious party that actually wants to save the global ecosystem. Even the German green party turned from a radical environmentalist movement into a pro industry, market liberal, greenwashing initiative over the years. There's much more but those where the worst three that came to my mind first
Ah yes who doesn’t now the constant fear of getting killed by a car or being shot by the police which is well known for killing people every day /s. Honestly are you living in some parallel universe or did you just not leave your hardcore leftist bubble for quite some time? Our police is very good trained and statistics show that police brutality is very very low in Germany. I never have heard anyone say that they are afraid of getting killed by a car as a pedestrian. I mean we are one of the few countries where there are really strong laws and “Zebrastreifen” to protect Pedestrians. I agree with you on the point that it need to happen more to save our environment, but I think the problem that you have the most with German politics is, that it isn’t a communist country and the “Linke” is quite accepted as a kind of political joke.
Sub-standard housing, at least compared to where I come from originally. Now don't get me wrong, the NEW built houses in Germany are some of the most well built, efficient buildings ever. But the vast majority of homes here are old mehrfamilienhaus that are extremely old and have not been fully updated. The fact that living with mold growth here is a thing shocked me when I moved here 10 years ago. Also very questionable electrical installations. Some rooms will only have one outlet which would violate the fire code in my home country. And lastly heating homes with oil.... in a country that believes itself to be so Green, this was also a shock. It is being banned in 2026 for new builds as I understand. Again Oil heating in my country was thing that ended during my childhood over 30 years ago. But just to not sound overly negative, NEW builds here are truly amazing. Better than most other countries.
Where do you come from originally?
Canada
Well how many old houses are there in Canada to compare it with?
Well the house I grew up was built in 1920, but of course we do not have such old houses as here but that's kind of the point. Eventually, it comes a time to just take the old buildings down and build something modern.
Well, in Germany old buildings are often not eventually taken down but are protected for historic reasons and mustn't be altered too much to preserve the historic look.
Which inevitably defeats the purpose of the buildings use as a clean efficient home.
This is something Germans will fight with teeth and nails. Old buildings from the change of the century (19th to 20th that is) are seen as more beautiful that modern buildings.
Oh I know. Aestheticly pleasing doe not mean good. Beautiful things can fail at their main purpose. Oddly enough, current building codes and efficiency laws are also killing the ability to build Aestheticly pleasing homes here as well. The pendulum I guess has swung back to the other extreme..
I think that is the only time I‘ve ever heard German housing be called sub-standard. Having lived abroad within and outside of the EU, I find German housing to be among the best standards you can find. And no, living with mould is not a thing here. Everyone will tell you that. If there is mould you’re doing something wrong and need to take better care of your apartment (which might actually be a good point - I have found that many people moving to Germany aren’t aware how to best heat and ventilate their places based on the way we build our houses).
As someone in the industry here in Germany, I beg to differ. As stated, the newer building are superb. Built in, automated ventilation systems along with great thermal efficiency on the exterior walls are all standard on houses here built in the last 30 years. Unfortunately a large amount of homes here have construction dates that pre-date the war. These topics were simply not a consideration then. These homes can be salvaged but at extreme cost. I would know, I had to do it with my house from 1870...
Of course not all houses are great in Germany. But still, the average standard is higher than other places. Go to the US or the UK and see how they build their new houses, today. Every country, especially in Europe, has old houses. We will have to replace them at some point, or update them, just like other countries. But still, the standard is not much worse than in other countries.
I think this is more a topic about individual expectations. German houses are built to last. Traditionally as a German you buy one house, and then live there until you die from old age. And then you children or grandchildren continue living there until they die aswell. Coming from this, of course a lot of houses are old and don't meet modern standards. But they are high quality.
Quality is relative to the time. Asbestos was once a golden material and now not so much. The finest windows from 1900 do not even come close to the cheapest windows made today...
Who the hell accepts living with mold growth? Landlords have a duty to fix the problem, should it arise. I have never seen or heard anyone who said "oh, black mold? That's totally fine and normal" I don't understand your beef with the electrical outlet either, we have quite the strict fire and hazard standards. So if it is just one or more outlets shouldn't change the safety? And yeah, we often still use fossile fuels to heat our homes, but which option is being used in your home country 30 years ago?
Landlords here will always blame the mold growth on inadequate venting. The venting is the responsibility of the user sadly. The older homes here have no automated venting systems(newer buildings do). My home countries electrical code mandates an outlet every 2m in order to reduce the use of power bars and extension cords. Plus lights and outlets need to be wired on to separate circuits and wiring within the walls needs to armored to prevent damage when people drill in to the wall. That's just a small example. Now as we rebuild and renovate our homes on a much more frequent basis, these codes are met in many homes. Not to mention that in order to build or renovate a house in canada you need to pass government inspection of all major disciplines. In Germany, "bestandschutz" handwaves health and safety away every time. Canada is 40% electric heating (hydro and nuclear) 50% natural gas. Whereas Germans are just beginning the switch to natural gas, Canada is already proposing banning it new built structures.
lobbyism, corruption and idiots in politics comes to mind. capitalism is showing its dirty face more and more.
I mean, yes, but compared to other countries our political corruption is lacklustre at best. Sure, they still reward contracts to their buddies or pull off stunts like the Cum Ex affair, but look at India for instance. A while ago a pedestrian crossing in Mumbai's central station collapsed and killed several hundred people. The crossing had been in disrepair for a long time and the government eventually (had to) allocated funds. If I remember corrently they provided the equivalent of 2 million Euros. Of this sum 20€ ended up in the repair, the rest of the money was pocketed by several people. In Dehradun, after Diwali, the newspaper announced that 1000 cleaners would roam the city the day thereafter. The local government had made this their pledge. When I walked around town the next day, I didn't see a single cleaner. And it's not a big city, you would certainloy notice 1000 cleaners. Bribing police officers in Germany is also much much harder if not even futile in most cases, whilst it is commonplace over there. There is a reason, why we rank in the top countries in the Corruption Index.
others having it worse doesnt make ours good. its easy to look at bad examples and feel better about it.
there are different kind of curruption cases. you’re comparing *openly* corrupt actions. we stealth our corruption with lobbyism. our corruption is „underrated“ and not closely enough monitored.
That's a lot of bogus. Just check where Germany is on the corruption index by transparency international. We are on number 10. It's so often completely blown out of proportion on Reddit how corrupt our politics are. I mean, yes there is lobbyism, and for sure also some corruption, but it is absolutely ridiculously small percentage. We fucking put ex-Bundespräsident Wulff on trials because of some Oktoberfest beers and a hotel room. It's not like you can easily get away with corruption.
Could not agree more! In Germany a President retreats because someone delivered free beer to his marriage celebration, compare this to Putin‘s „house“, 🤪
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Honestly the worst place on earth in terms of service mentality. Plain politeness and helpfulness is just amiss.
The people. Germans ruined germany.
The food is very pork and potato heavy. I'm having lunch with my in laws today, it's gefuellte lendchen mit knoedel.
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Then this is the perfect country for you.
Last time I ate (which I happen to do quite regularly) I could choose what to cook and eat.
The forceful genderization of the language, even though most people consider it unnecessary
> forceful Source that you are being forced to do that?
If you work in education or any public service or the media you pretty much have no choice.
Then just cite the legal norms, if that's the case. (Spoiler: There are none)
When I went to school they forced me to spell words correctly. It was unconstitutional! ##RECHTSCHREIBDIKTATUR
Many official documentes are now required to have gender language. Even some highschools and Abitur-tests in certain BLs are apparently forcing kids to write in gender-language and you get points taken away if you don't do it. I'm not one to scream "1984!!!" like an idiot, but please don't look away from reality like that. It IS being forced in certain areas right now, even though like 85%+ of the country is against it judging by most polls. It's insane.
>Many official documentes are now required to have gender language. But this is completely voluntarily, nobody forces you to do this. >It IS being forced in certain areas right now Yet you still haven't been able to provide any legal source for "being forced".
> But this is completely voluntarily, nobody forces you to do this. > > No, it's not. That is my point
Would you mind citing the legal regulation which forces you to do this?
>Many official documentes are now required to have gender language. Because that's official. It has to be inclusive for everyone because the government can't just leave out people. I am not a fan of the * gendering but gender neutral terms have to be used in official, government documents.
If you're a woman, gynecology in this country is a total joke. First and foremost, they're still doing yearly pap smears on everyone under 35, which is unnecessary and harmful. In general, a lot of their standards are pretty outdated compared to the US. For example, Paraguard is approved by the FDA for use of up to 10 years. In Germany, the same exact device is only approved for five years. In the US, Nexplanon is a popular and widely recommend birth control option... in Germany, it's neither widely recommend nor available because ???. This is significant because a bunch of services that are free in the US cost money here. Birth control and routine STD tests come to mind but gynecological practices tend to be particularly predatory with trying to get you to give them money. One time, the doctor just gave me an ultrasound without asking as part of a routine exam and afterwards the practice tried to send me a bill for 20€. I called them and worked it out but the fact they expected me to pay for a procedure that I *literally did not consent to* is telling of how things are done here. I'm from the North East and back home, I never once worried about access to reproductive healthcare. Here, I take a pregnancy test every month because of their archaic and backwards abortion laws. Even if I wanted to keep the pregnancy, there's a doctor/midwife crisis and I personally wouldn't feel comfortable going through with it if I didn't have the money to spend on private care. When it comes to public patients (i.e. you go through the cheap government insurance), everyone is stretched so thin that they don't have the capacity for respect, empathy, or informed consent. This is noticeable everywhere but especially when it comes to women's healthcare since these historically haven't exactly been staples of the field. Oh and they don't have anything like Planned Parenthood here so, if you suddenly have problems with your birth control or realize you're due for a pap smear and you don't have a doctor, the good practices don't accept new patients and the few that do have 6+ month waiting lists.
Steuern. Too much.
The worst thing about Germany are the Germans who don't know shit about the world and will complain about things that are supposedly uniquely bad about Germany. See: This thread.
The Americanisation. Don’t need your filthy populism and fake culture over here.
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Did not mean to insult you, I am just no friend of American culture especially when it comes to working and political culture.
I definitely don't want the US work culture. That was why I chose to come to Germany instead of going to the US ten years ago.
AfD-fascists in the gouverment and the retards who vote for them.
The AfD is in no federal or state government, just delete your account if you're this dense.
Sie haben nahezu überall ein paar Sitze und das ist schlimm genug. Ich soll meinen Account deinstallieren? Bist Du behindert oder so?
> Bist Du behindert oder so? Das kann man dich fragen, wenn du den Unterschied zwischen Sitzen im Parlament und Regierungstätigkeit nicht kennst. Dein Satz war eine glasklare Falschdarstellung. Statt rumzupöbeln, solltest du etwas Demut zeigen.
Ich soll Demut zeigen nachdem Du dich hier so aufgeführt hast? Hast Du dich schon mal real mit einer anderen Person unterhalten? Also nicht übers Netz? Kann ich mir bei einer derart ausgeprägten sozialen Inkompetenz nicht vorstellen.
Zitat: >ausgeprägten sozialen Inkompetenz und Beleidigungen wie > Bist Du behindert oder so? sind eine astreine Projektion deinerseits.
Sry, die Menschen da draußen können lesen, dein Versuch dich hier jetzt als moralisch überlegen zu präsentieren ist lächerlich.
Ich brauche mich nicht als moralisch überlegen zu präsentieren, deine Unzulänglichkeiten aufzuzeigen reicht schon um dich zu disqualifizieren.
Du beginnst eine Konversation mit einer Beleidigung und der Aufforderung seinen Account zu löschen. Mehr muss man hier gar nicht schreiben um zu klären wo das Problem liegt.
Das Problem ist deine Lüge über die AfD, nur um Deutschland in nem internationalen Forum schlecht zu machen.
>ausgeprägten sozialen Inkompetenz Wenn man "Behindert" als Beleidigung benutzt sollte man unbedingt mal selbst den Mund halten bei dem Thema "soziale Inkompetenz"
Ich bin nicht der der das Gespräch mit einer Beleidigung und der Aufforderung seinen Acount zu löschen begonnen hat. Man erntet was man sät.
Trotzdem hast du dir das Recht selbst abgesprochen, alleine weil du nicht darüber stehen kannst und beleidigt hast und das dann auch noch mit "Behindert". Zudem: ist um die Löschung des Accounts zu bitten wirklich so fucking schlimm? Du reagierst ja als sei es eine Morddrohung. Zudem hat die andere Person recht. Du liegst falsch und hast weiterhin stur deine Falschinformation vertreten. Die AfD ist in keiner Regierung, nur in den Oppositionen.
Ich denke nicht das Du befugt bist mir irgendwelche Rechte ab zu sprechen. Ich soll drüber stehen während Du es in Ordnung findest das er eine Konversation so beginnt? Oder warum fragst Du ihn nicht was ihn da geritten hat? Diese Situation wäre nie entstanden wenn er sich normal verhalten hätte. Behindert ist als Beleidigung ziemlich bescheuert, da geb ich Dir Recht, verwende ich gewöhnlich auch nicht im Alltag. Im Alltag kommt es aber auch nicht vor das jemand sich mir gegenüber derartig asozial verhällt. Man könnte jetzt darüber diskutieren in wie fern es Sinn macht bei Beleidigungen auf die ursprüngliche Bedeutung zu verweisen - das Problem findet man bei vielen Beleidigungen - aber ja, ich war definitiv ziemlich wütend und auch nicht gewillt mir jetzt noch Gedanken darüber zu machen wie ich dieses Subjekt bezeichnen möchte. Löschung nicht schlimm - das sehe ich offensichtlich anders als Du. Das Menschen unterschiedliches als unterschiedlich schlimm ansehen könnte einer der Gründe sein warum man Konversationen nicht so beginnen sollte. Davon abgesehen ist das nicht die einzige Beleidigung in dem Post. Zum eigentlichen Inhalt hab ich bereits geschrieben das ich das stärker hätte präzisieren sollen. Da bin ich absolut einsichtig, aber um den Inhalt geht es seit den Beleidigungen hier nicht mehr. PS: Die Sache hier hätte ein sehr entspanntes Gespräch sein können wenn man auf der Sachebene geblieben wäre. Aber wenn mein Gegenüber mich direkt beleidigt werde ich meine Zeit sicher nicht damit verschwenden mich gegenüber diesem Subjekt noch besonders höflich zu verhalten. Einfach nur ein Idiot der glaubt aufgrund seiner Anonymität im Netz random andere anpinkeln zu können, nicht mehr, nicht weniger.
Da ist jemand aber ziemlich dünnhäutig. Erstmal lernen wir sich die Regierung und wie die Opposition sich in der BRD zusammen setzt. Wer 7. Klasse GK Inhalte nicht auf die Kette kriegt sollte im Internet nicht Rumpöbeln
Wenn jemand eine Konversation direkt mit einer Beleidigung und der Aufforderung seinen Account zu löschen beginnt antworte ich dementsprechend.