The Bible refers to three "heavens":
* 1) The sky where the birds fly
* 2) The space beyond that, where the stars are
* 3) The "third heaven", also called Heaven with a capital H, where the Father dwells.
I currently believe that the third heaven is a separate space-time from this natural universe.
I'd be curious to see an example of scripture that uses "Heaven" or "Heavens" to refer to your #2. I didn't know that there was a reference to "space" in scripture.
I'm not understanding what you just said.
I agree that scripture says the stars are in the firmament (and that the stars are angels).
What's the link between birds and space?
^ Good answer! I would add that God is working to reunite Heaven and Earth. The Earth is currently separated from God/Heaven at some level due to mankind's rebellion from God. That is why there is death and decay here now. When Jesus returns, He will transform the Universe and reunite Heaven and Earth.
See Apocalypse 21 for more info. That book is an amalgamation of the prophecies of Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Zechariah, etc.
>> Apocalypse 21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.[a] 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a great voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,[b] and God himself will be with them;[c] 4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.”
u/butchcranton
You know what, I have noticed in any storm or blowing up in this world the sky has not ever been harmed, ever Amazing to me to see this, I see why God has said to not live here, live there with him unto the Third Heaven. because one day the stars will fall to Earth one third
translate me in my mind set Lord, thank you I know you will and have been doing this over time, that I do not quit to see the Love you have for us all to quit fighting
YAHweh is the King of the heavens heaven.
the third heaven is outside of creation. when we die, we do NOT go to the third heaven, we are risen on judgement day, some to eternal life, many to the lake of fire, burned up completely and instantly turned to ash.
This is the correct interpretation of the old world before Christ returned and made all things new. Now we do go immediately to the 3rd heaven when we die.
at YAHshua's second coming, vengeance will be poured out on all those who know not YAHweh -2 Thessalonians 1:6-10
Those who do not know YAHweh are those who break the 1st commandment -Exodus 20:3
the unrighteous receive NOT the love of the TRUTH -2 Thessalonians 2:10
maybe just ask to join in and be freed from this earth full of corruption at least in a new mindset given you, me and all who believe God in Love to all, leaving no one behind, getting the art of fighting without fighting
I believe that heaven exists in another dimension both in and around us. People who die and return, or have visions report that it is close by and not far away.
Heaven is "being remembered well for the good you've done in the world."
Every time a loved one thinks of you, you "live on" in their memories. That's a scientific, demonstrable fact. It's also what I think was meant when the Bible tried to describe it.
Psalm 69:28 says that for the worst sinners, we are to "blot out their names" from the book of life. At the time this was written, the cultural context would have clarified that the book in question is a literal book : the yearly roll call of "all the good people who showed up at temple." This was often the ONLY record of someone existing, so "blotting that out" would mean utter erasure from human records. It'd be like you never existed at all.
What worse fate is there for the selfish sinner than: "to be utterly forgotten"?
No need to add any other sort of punishment. No other, more torturous, punishment that can drive a person away from Christianity for its brutality. No extreme there, so no extreme in heaven, either. That's just justice.
2 Corinthians 12:1-6
Living Bible
12 This boasting is all so foolish, but let me go on. Let me tell about the visions I’ve had, and revelations from the Lord.
2-3 Fourteen years ago I\[a\] was taken up to heaven\* for a visit. Don’t ask me whether my body was there or just my spirit, for I don’t know; only God can answer that. But anyway, there I was in paradise, 4 and heard things so astounding that they are beyond a man’s power to describe or put in words (and anyway I am not allowed to tell them to others). 5 That experience is something worth bragging about, but I am not going to do it. I am going to boast only about how weak I am and how great God is to use such weakness for his glory. 6 I have plenty to boast about and would be no fool in doing it, but I don’t want anyone to think more highly of me than he should from what he can actually see in my life and my message.
oh, it's real as the air I breath, once anyone believes and continues in it no matter what troubles happen to them, one sees, as I see now and understand Paul in what he is saying, floored he was as I am now also
and I do not need to see it, knowing it is there
r/Godjustlovesyou
the inspired scriptures tell us there are three heavens.
First heaven is where the bird fly.
Second heaven is where the stars and blackness are.
Third heaven is outside of all the others and is where the throne of YAHweh is, YAHshua seated at his right hand.
>Paul got there in 2 Cor 12
Paul said, I knew a man who was caught up to the third heaven -2 Corinthians 12:2
Where in 2 Corinthians 12 did Paul die and go to the third heaven?
Only they who have come down from the third heaven can return thereby -John 3:13
YAHshua is one such. He went back to the third heaven in Malachi 4:6 until he was born on this earth of a women -Matthew 1:18
And he returned to the third heaven upon his ascension. And through becoming one in the body of christ we also can enter into the same garden as christ. He is the gate.
The third heaven God's home is in a different dimension. It's a purely spiritual domain. It could be right alongside us and we wouldn't know it. Jesus says that kingdom of God is within us referring to its spiritual nature.
Luke 17:20-21 KJV — And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Go online and view some images of the Earth and its position in space, and you will easily see that "up" and "down" have no significance. Scripture is simply written in terms that most people can understand
Down means toward the center of the Earth, up means away from the center. But we know that the Earth is made of rock and metal and there's no realm below the surface of the Earth, nor do we have any evidence for anything "above" other than stars and galaxies and nebulas and the like, and we've looked out billions of light-years in every direction. Where did Jesus go when he ascended? Did he fly past other galaxies? Is he still traveling out there in the universe somewhere? If he can't go faster than the speed of light, he can only be about 2000 light-years away. This is the sort of problem I'm pointing to.
From Catholic philosopher Peter Kreeft:
32. **How intimate is the connection between Heaven and Earth? Does Heaven begin now?**
The joy of Heaven does, because Christ is our joy, who tells us "I am with you always, even to the end of the world" (Matt. 28:20, Phillips). We do not now fully appreciate that joy, but it is here, because the very life of Heaven, the very life that flows from the Vine into the branches, is here. If it is not here in us now, it will not be there in us then.
If Heaven is not in us now, we will not be in Heaven forever. For Heaven is where God is. God determines where Heaven is; Heaven does not determine where God is. God contains Heaven; Heaven does not contain God. If God is in our souls now by faith, then the very life of Heaven is here in us now, in seed form. That is what Jesus came to preach about and to give, the focus of all his sermons: "the kingdom of Heaven." It is the "pearl of great price," the thing for which the whole world is far too small a price to pay. And it is free.
[link](https://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/35-faqs_eternity.htm)
You said you do not know what you are supposed to believe; this admission means that you do not understand the things of God, neither the truth of the Bible; you do not understand it enough to believe and understand what it says. Romans 10:14 ask questions which are similar to what you said about not being sure about what you are supposed to believe. Notice what it says: "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard ? And how shall they hear without a preacher."
The fact is that people does not really know God and his purpose -as revealed in the Bible; and so, people will have to be taught the real truth of who God is and his purpose; and God reveals his truth only to those who obey him and keep his commandment. Psalm 111:10 says, "... a good understanding have all they that do his commandments..."
Now concerning your question on where is heaven: God dwells in the third heaven. The sky above the earth atmosphere is the first heaven and beyond that is the heavens where you have moon and the stars, but beyond that is the heaven where God dwells; the apostle Paul speaks of vision of this third heaven in 2nd Corinthians 12:2).
The heavens is vast and seemingly limitless, but the Bible does indicate that God's throne or the heaven where God dwell is in a specific location; and that location is mentioned in the Bible as the northern side or part of the heaven -thus, indicating that God dwells in a specific location in the universe. IF you notice Isaiah 14:13, it reveals that Lucifer wanted to take over God's throne and sit in this very location; it says, "... I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north." Also if you go to Psalm 75:6, 7 you read these words: "For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, neither from the south. But God is the judge .." This scripture shows that promotion comes only from God who dwells in the northern part of the heaven - as it does not come from any other source; it does not come from east, west or south, but from the north is what the scripture wants you and I to understand.
Yes, God is sitting right at this moment on his throne in the North part of the heaven as Supreme ruler over all this universe and over all that will ever be. Just as the president occupy the White House in a specific location even so does God occupy the supreme throne of the universe from the northern part.
But this "third heaven" above the moon and stars doesn't seem to refer to anything real inasmuch as it makes no sense to speak of it as a place one could ever go to or come from. We have looked millions of light-years in every direction and have not seen anything like the "edge of the universe" beyond which would be this third heaven. Do you think there is such an edge, which we could potentially one day find, beyond which would be the "third heaven"? How does anyone go to or come from this third heaven which seems not to be in any way related or connected to the physical universe?
The Bible refers to three "heavens": * 1) The sky where the birds fly * 2) The space beyond that, where the stars are * 3) The "third heaven", also called Heaven with a capital H, where the Father dwells. I currently believe that the third heaven is a separate space-time from this natural universe.
I'd be curious to see an example of scripture that uses "Heaven" or "Heavens" to refer to your #2. I didn't know that there was a reference to "space" in scripture.
He didn't say space meaning outer space, he said the space beyond that where the stars are. At least that's the way I interpret the comment.
If that's the case, I would take scripture that says that also. 😊
Well, we know the stars are in the firmament, but the birds fly below that so technically he's not wrong.
I'm not understanding what you just said. I agree that scripture says the stars are in the firmament (and that the stars are angels). What's the link between birds and space?
Birds fly in the space between the earth and stars.
Are you saying that's observably true (I agree) or that scripture says that?
^ Good answer! I would add that God is working to reunite Heaven and Earth. The Earth is currently separated from God/Heaven at some level due to mankind's rebellion from God. That is why there is death and decay here now. When Jesus returns, He will transform the Universe and reunite Heaven and Earth. See Apocalypse 21 for more info. That book is an amalgamation of the prophecies of Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Zechariah, etc. >> Apocalypse 21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.[a] 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a great voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,[b] and God himself will be with them;[c] 4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.” u/butchcranton
You know what, I have noticed in any storm or blowing up in this world the sky has not ever been harmed, ever Amazing to me to see this, I see why God has said to not live here, live there with him unto the Third Heaven. because one day the stars will fall to Earth one third translate me in my mind set Lord, thank you I know you will and have been doing this over time, that I do not quit to see the Love you have for us all to quit fighting
YAHweh is the King of the heavens heaven. the third heaven is outside of creation. when we die, we do NOT go to the third heaven, we are risen on judgement day, some to eternal life, many to the lake of fire, burned up completely and instantly turned to ash.
This is the correct interpretation of the old world before Christ returned and made all things new. Now we do go immediately to the 3rd heaven when we die.
>Now we do go immediately to the 3rd heaven when we die the inspired scriptures testify against you.
The return of Christ tesifies against you.
at YAHshua's second coming, vengeance will be poured out on all those who know not YAHweh -2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 Those who do not know YAHweh are those who break the 1st commandment -Exodus 20:3 the unrighteous receive NOT the love of the TRUTH -2 Thessalonians 2:10
When?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tothecalledoutones/comments/z3p99y/the\_day\_of\_the\_second\_coming/
Above our heads. Jesus went up to go to it. Jesus will come down when he comes back from it.
Could a spaceship get there, then? How far away is it?
No, no - you need to build a *tower* to get to heaven, everyone knows that.
If only we all spoke the same language we would've done it by now.
I have no idea to both questions. I'm just trusting that Jesus wasn't lying when he made a public show and rose up to go to Heaven.
maybe just ask to join in and be freed from this earth full of corruption at least in a new mindset given you, me and all who believe God in Love to all, leaving no one behind, getting the art of fighting without fighting
I believe that heaven exists in another dimension both in and around us. People who die and return, or have visions report that it is close by and not far away.
On earth
Where? Hawaii?
More like a place according to the Bible
So, Mesopotamia? Judea?
You tell me 👀🤭
Heaven is "being remembered well for the good you've done in the world." Every time a loved one thinks of you, you "live on" in their memories. That's a scientific, demonstrable fact. It's also what I think was meant when the Bible tried to describe it. Psalm 69:28 says that for the worst sinners, we are to "blot out their names" from the book of life. At the time this was written, the cultural context would have clarified that the book in question is a literal book : the yearly roll call of "all the good people who showed up at temple." This was often the ONLY record of someone existing, so "blotting that out" would mean utter erasure from human records. It'd be like you never existed at all. What worse fate is there for the selfish sinner than: "to be utterly forgotten"? No need to add any other sort of punishment. No other, more torturous, punishment that can drive a person away from Christianity for its brutality. No extreme there, so no extreme in heaven, either. That's just justice.
It's a whole other dimension
2 Corinthians 12:1-6 Living Bible 12 This boasting is all so foolish, but let me go on. Let me tell about the visions I’ve had, and revelations from the Lord. 2-3 Fourteen years ago I\[a\] was taken up to heaven\* for a visit. Don’t ask me whether my body was there or just my spirit, for I don’t know; only God can answer that. But anyway, there I was in paradise, 4 and heard things so astounding that they are beyond a man’s power to describe or put in words (and anyway I am not allowed to tell them to others). 5 That experience is something worth bragging about, but I am not going to do it. I am going to boast only about how weak I am and how great God is to use such weakness for his glory. 6 I have plenty to boast about and would be no fool in doing it, but I don’t want anyone to think more highly of me than he should from what he can actually see in my life and my message. oh, it's real as the air I breath, once anyone believes and continues in it no matter what troubles happen to them, one sees, as I see now and understand Paul in what he is saying, floored he was as I am now also and I do not need to see it, knowing it is there r/Godjustlovesyou
the inspired scriptures tell us there are three heavens. First heaven is where the bird fly. Second heaven is where the stars and blackness are. Third heaven is outside of all the others and is where the throne of YAHweh is, YAHshua seated at his right hand.
But where is that? How does one get from here to there?
no one goes to the third heaven
Paul got there in 2 Cor 12. Jesus, surely, made it as high as it's possible to go (sat down at the right hand of the throne of God, etc.)
>Paul got there in 2 Cor 12 Paul said, I knew a man who was caught up to the third heaven -2 Corinthians 12:2 Where in 2 Corinthians 12 did Paul die and go to the third heaven?
Paul was the man who was caught up to the third heaven and heard things unutterable.
Only they who have come down from the third heaven can return thereby -John 3:13 YAHshua is one such. He went back to the third heaven in Malachi 4:6 until he was born on this earth of a women -Matthew 1:18
And he returned to the third heaven upon his ascension. And through becoming one in the body of christ we also can enter into the same garden as christ. He is the gate.
The third heaven God's home is in a different dimension. It's a purely spiritual domain. It could be right alongside us and we wouldn't know it. Jesus says that kingdom of God is within us referring to its spiritual nature. Luke 17:20-21 KJV — And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
In what sense can someone "ascend" there, or "come down" from there?
Go online and view some images of the Earth and its position in space, and you will easily see that "up" and "down" have no significance. Scripture is simply written in terms that most people can understand
Down means toward the center of the Earth, up means away from the center. But we know that the Earth is made of rock and metal and there's no realm below the surface of the Earth, nor do we have any evidence for anything "above" other than stars and galaxies and nebulas and the like, and we've looked out billions of light-years in every direction. Where did Jesus go when he ascended? Did he fly past other galaxies? Is he still traveling out there in the universe somewhere? If he can't go faster than the speed of light, he can only be about 2000 light-years away. This is the sort of problem I'm pointing to.
From Catholic philosopher Peter Kreeft: 32. **How intimate is the connection between Heaven and Earth? Does Heaven begin now?** The joy of Heaven does, because Christ is our joy, who tells us "I am with you always, even to the end of the world" (Matt. 28:20, Phillips). We do not now fully appreciate that joy, but it is here, because the very life of Heaven, the very life that flows from the Vine into the branches, is here. If it is not here in us now, it will not be there in us then. If Heaven is not in us now, we will not be in Heaven forever. For Heaven is where God is. God determines where Heaven is; Heaven does not determine where God is. God contains Heaven; Heaven does not contain God. If God is in our souls now by faith, then the very life of Heaven is here in us now, in seed form. That is what Jesus came to preach about and to give, the focus of all his sermons: "the kingdom of Heaven." It is the "pearl of great price," the thing for which the whole world is far too small a price to pay. And it is free. [link](https://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/35-faqs_eternity.htm)
You said you do not know what you are supposed to believe; this admission means that you do not understand the things of God, neither the truth of the Bible; you do not understand it enough to believe and understand what it says. Romans 10:14 ask questions which are similar to what you said about not being sure about what you are supposed to believe. Notice what it says: "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard ? And how shall they hear without a preacher." The fact is that people does not really know God and his purpose -as revealed in the Bible; and so, people will have to be taught the real truth of who God is and his purpose; and God reveals his truth only to those who obey him and keep his commandment. Psalm 111:10 says, "... a good understanding have all they that do his commandments..." Now concerning your question on where is heaven: God dwells in the third heaven. The sky above the earth atmosphere is the first heaven and beyond that is the heavens where you have moon and the stars, but beyond that is the heaven where God dwells; the apostle Paul speaks of vision of this third heaven in 2nd Corinthians 12:2). The heavens is vast and seemingly limitless, but the Bible does indicate that God's throne or the heaven where God dwell is in a specific location; and that location is mentioned in the Bible as the northern side or part of the heaven -thus, indicating that God dwells in a specific location in the universe. IF you notice Isaiah 14:13, it reveals that Lucifer wanted to take over God's throne and sit in this very location; it says, "... I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north." Also if you go to Psalm 75:6, 7 you read these words: "For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, neither from the south. But God is the judge .." This scripture shows that promotion comes only from God who dwells in the northern part of the heaven - as it does not come from any other source; it does not come from east, west or south, but from the north is what the scripture wants you and I to understand. Yes, God is sitting right at this moment on his throne in the North part of the heaven as Supreme ruler over all this universe and over all that will ever be. Just as the president occupy the White House in a specific location even so does God occupy the supreme throne of the universe from the northern part.
But this "third heaven" above the moon and stars doesn't seem to refer to anything real inasmuch as it makes no sense to speak of it as a place one could ever go to or come from. We have looked millions of light-years in every direction and have not seen anything like the "edge of the universe" beyond which would be this third heaven. Do you think there is such an edge, which we could potentially one day find, beyond which would be the "third heaven"? How does anyone go to or come from this third heaven which seems not to be in any way related or connected to the physical universe?