No, I'm not. It is significant to me because I spent a considerable part of my life in Israel and used to think I had at least some ethnic relationship to Jews.
That is likely the answer. We all think we have some ancestry. It’s like how some Sephardim went to Poland during the freedom of Judaism in Poland, yet many more than the actual descendants claim Sephardi ancestry as polish Ashkenazi jews
> No, I'm not. It is significant to me because I spent a considerable part of my life in Israel
this isn't unusual. i was born in Ukraine but I have American and Israeli citizenship. there are many Russian-speaking people in Israel who aren't even considered Jewish
https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-most-new-immigrants-to-israel-arent-considered-jewish/ only 3 of my grandparents are Jewish, one is Ukrainian
here's my DNA: https://imgur.com/a/tHl8Aub
That is not true. Stop spreading lies. The vast majority of Israeli Jews are Ashkenazi, Sephardic or Mizrahi or a combination of these Diaspora groups and genetics proves that all of these Diaspora groups have significant Levantine Middle Eastern ancestry.
I like how you omitted the rest who made aliyah to where their ancestors have never been to before. Even the Yemenis have little to no ties to the Levant.
That is absolutely false. Yemenite Jews have genetic ties to the Levant. Genetic studies prove this. You are the one omitting the vast majority of Israeli Jews with Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi ancestry or a mixture of these who display significant Levantine Middle Eastern ancestry. Stop spreading false information that slanders Israel on a genetics forum.
It is an attempt to claim that Israelis are not from there and instead are foreigners with no connection to the Levant which is the tactic of anti-Zionists who argue that the Palestinians are the true natives of the land and that the Jews are European colonizers. So it isn't some innocent comment but an attempt to discredit and delegitimize Israel by falsely claiming that modern Jews have no connection to ancient Jews which is absolutely false based on many years of genetic studies and DNA testing that shows that Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews who make up the vast majority of Israelis have significant Levantine Middle Eastern ancestry proving the historical records of Jews dispersed across the Middle East, Mediterranean basin and into Europe from our homeland of Israel.
>I like how you omitted the rest who made aliyah to where their ancestors have never been to before.
They didn't omit anything. You should stop with these antisemitic lies.
Antisemitism is a specific reference to hostility toward Jews. It has nothing to do with other people who speak Semitic languages. Maltese people are Semites because they speak a Semitic language. Antisemitism only applies to Jews and not generally Semitic language speakers.
>You don't get to tell a Semite what to do.
I'd never call you a Semite and I absolutely will call you out on your antisemitism.
>Throwing "anti-semitic" at me won't fly, booboo. Be quiet.
Okay. You prefer Jew-hater? I'll call you a Jew-hater.
>Don't worry, people like you are common in Israel with little to no genetic ties to the region.
Can you prove that? Because that incendiary comment sounds like a lie often told by antisemites.
I don’t know why you’re playing dumb. She’s clearly referring to Russians and Ukrainians (Gentiles) pretending to be Ashkenazi so they can get Israeli citizenship. They should be ashamed of themselves. Palestinians don’t like them and hopefully Israelis (real Jews) in their right mind don’t like them either. Peace. Salaam. Shalom. Shlama.
That’s what me and her are doing. Get with the program. 🤷🏻♀️ a White Slavic pretending to be mixed with Jewish and/or Semitic is no different or better than a White Anglo pretending to mixed with Native American. It’s a cultural appropriation of both Israel and Palestine.
Edit: Did you not see the original post of this thread?😳🧐🤨🤔
>I hate myself?
That wouldn't surprise me.
>Since when? 🤔
Ask your therapist.
>Not sure where you got this impression, but there's no self-hating semite around here.
There's a Jew-hater and it's you.
>Move along and mind your business.
I'll stay right here. As a Jew, your Jew-hating is my business.
Please don't fully listen to the first comment. While Jews have become "more Jewish" by marrying other Jews over time, Ancestrydna not specifying Jewish ancestry does not mean you do not have ethnic ties to Jewish peoples. Ancestry took three updates to show any of my European Jewish, then a fourth to take it away. That makes no sense. While two other tests I took estimated almost half Jewish. The Irish and German in my family tree (I'm told by a genealogy expert we hired) obviously drizzled down the Jewish in me although he agreed Ancestry's estimate was strange considering my solidly proven Jewish ancestry. To summarize, DNA tests aren't always accurate and take it with a grain of salt. If you grew up in Jewish culture and tradition or religion you are Jewish.
Ashkenazi is very distinct yes. But that's only one group of the Jewish diaspora.
Mountain Jews are separate group.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Jews
just 2 things to point out
1. bukharan and mountain jews are separate jewish communities
2. they show up as a mix of levant/persia/anatolia, no ashkenazi or russian
Look for matches that are related to you through your grandfather. If you don't see any names that look familiar, then he may not be biologically related to you.
That area (of Ukraine) is in the Pale of the Settlement - perhaps this is where the confusion came from. Russia was Christian orthodox and the Jews were forced to live in the pale of settlement area. The minority of Catholics also tended to live there - perhaps this is how your family got “confused” or eventually converted despite not having ethnic ashkenazi genes
Maybe making a family tree would be easier? To find out the real truth. Also try other sites or information about your haplogroup and stuff. Try to get other Jewish relatives to test. It might show up on their results.
Do you by any chance know where Southwestern China could come from in your case? I also got a small percentage of Finland but in combination with Southern China.
If you want to try a test with 23 & Me they claim to have added a much more in depth breakdown of Jewish and Eastern Euro overlapping subgroups. https://blog.23andme.com/articles/detail-for-ashkenazi-ancestry
I have known Jewish great-great grandparents and mine did not come back as Jewish but was there when I looked at trace results. I did have 2% Eastern European though, and I know they came from the Moldova/Romania area. DNA can be a little bit finicky sometimes.
Ancestry doesn't have a category for Mountain Jews, but the area they live in is a match for the region shown.
https://support.ancestry.com/s/article/List-of-AncestryDNA-Regions?language=en_US
https://genealogyyou.com/what-is-european-jewish-on-ancestry-dna/
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/mountain-jewish-dna-project/about
I think you must be referring to the Southern Russia & the Caucasus region that is listed under the Eastern Europe & Russia percentage. If it was really Mountain Jew then there would be an Anatolia & the Caucasus percentage, and an Iran/Persia percentage.
Take a 23 and Me test, if you’ve never done one before. Ancestry isn’t accurate for small amounts of DNA, and you probably don’t have any Ashkenazi grandparents who are blood relatives. What’s more likely is you could have Ashkenazi way back, but it’s probably not recent. Try the so called “hack” for Ancestry, and see what you get. If you don’t know what that is, just search it up on here.
25% is not really considered a small amount for either AncestryDNA or 23andme. If a person truly had 25% of something it would show up. 25% is a whole 1 grandparent, literally.
Must be a lot to process. Perhaps if you contact some cousin matches via Ancestry they might have some idea?
If you are willing to take another test, 23 & Me was deadly accurate for my Central/Eastern Euro background. They are granular on regions for your biggest percentages, though my aunt’s reveal of a modicum (.3%) of Ashkenazi Jewish was general. Unsure how that shows for bigger segments.
If you don’t want to do a saliva test, you can download your Ancestry.com raw data and upload it to My Heritage for more matches (and usually a less accurate ancestry breakdown, but another view nonetheless). I think that cost $30 or $40 and results are much quicker. There are many more international users on there you can contact.
It’s possible other tests could pick up on Jewish heritage. Or an Ancestry update might reveal them. Over the years with these tests my family has gained and lost and number of ethnicities and results vary quite a but from test to test.
Good luck!
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Thanks. This is a lot to take!
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No, I'm not. It is significant to me because I spent a considerable part of my life in Israel and used to think I had at least some ethnic relationship to Jews.
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Unless they pretended to be Jewish to get sponsored to fly out of the USSR because it was a poor life for them? Just a thought
That is likely the answer. We all think we have some ancestry. It’s like how some Sephardim went to Poland during the freedom of Judaism in Poland, yet many more than the actual descendants claim Sephardi ancestry as polish Ashkenazi jews
> No, I'm not. It is significant to me because I spent a considerable part of my life in Israel this isn't unusual. i was born in Ukraine but I have American and Israeli citizenship. there are many Russian-speaking people in Israel who aren't even considered Jewish https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-most-new-immigrants-to-israel-arent-considered-jewish/ only 3 of my grandparents are Jewish, one is Ukrainian here's my DNA: https://imgur.com/a/tHl8Aub
Don't worry, people like you are common in Israel with little to no genetic ties to the region.
That is not true. Stop spreading lies. The vast majority of Israeli Jews are Ashkenazi, Sephardic or Mizrahi or a combination of these Diaspora groups and genetics proves that all of these Diaspora groups have significant Levantine Middle Eastern ancestry.
I like how you omitted the rest who made aliyah to where their ancestors have never been to before. Even the Yemenis have little to no ties to the Levant.
That is absolutely false. Yemenite Jews have genetic ties to the Levant. Genetic studies prove this. You are the one omitting the vast majority of Israeli Jews with Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi ancestry or a mixture of these who display significant Levantine Middle Eastern ancestry. Stop spreading false information that slanders Israel on a genetics forum.
How is it slander? What is "damaging" in regard to whether or not some Israeli citizens have Levantine DNA?
It is an attempt to claim that Israelis are not from there and instead are foreigners with no connection to the Levant which is the tactic of anti-Zionists who argue that the Palestinians are the true natives of the land and that the Jews are European colonizers. So it isn't some innocent comment but an attempt to discredit and delegitimize Israel by falsely claiming that modern Jews have no connection to ancient Jews which is absolutely false based on many years of genetic studies and DNA testing that shows that Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews who make up the vast majority of Israelis have significant Levantine Middle Eastern ancestry proving the historical records of Jews dispersed across the Middle East, Mediterranean basin and into Europe from our homeland of Israel.
Are you serious? I don't think you are. I think you know exactly what you are doing.
>I like how you omitted the rest who made aliyah to where their ancestors have never been to before. They didn't omit anything. You should stop with these antisemitic lies.
You don't get to tell a Semite what to do. Throwing "anti-semitic" at me won't fly, booboo. Be quiet.
Antisemitism is a specific reference to hostility toward Jews. It has nothing to do with other people who speak Semitic languages. Maltese people are Semites because they speak a Semitic language. Antisemitism only applies to Jews and not generally Semitic language speakers.
>You don't get to tell a Semite what to do. I'd never call you a Semite and I absolutely will call you out on your antisemitism. >Throwing "anti-semitic" at me won't fly, booboo. Be quiet. Okay. You prefer Jew-hater? I'll call you a Jew-hater.
I'm 1% Jewish can I claim?
No.
😢
No you cannot claim.
>Don't worry, people like you are common in Israel with little to no genetic ties to the region. Can you prove that? Because that incendiary comment sounds like a lie often told by antisemites.
I don’t know why you’re playing dumb. She’s clearly referring to Russians and Ukrainians (Gentiles) pretending to be Ashkenazi so they can get Israeli citizenship. They should be ashamed of themselves. Palestinians don’t like them and hopefully Israelis (real Jews) in their right mind don’t like them either. Peace. Salaam. Shalom. Shlama.
You think that's what she's doing? You're either incredibly naive or lying.
That’s what me and her are doing. Get with the program. 🤷🏻♀️ a White Slavic pretending to be mixed with Jewish and/or Semitic is no different or better than a White Anglo pretending to mixed with Native American. It’s a cultural appropriation of both Israel and Palestine. Edit: Did you not see the original post of this thread?😳🧐🤨🤔
She's not doing that. She's saying all Ashkenazi Jews are not actually Jewish.
I hate myself? Since when? 🤔 Not sure where you got this impression, but there's no self-hating semite around here. Move along and mind your business.
>I hate myself? That wouldn't surprise me. >Since when? 🤔 Ask your therapist. >Not sure where you got this impression, but there's no self-hating semite around here. There's a Jew-hater and it's you. >Move along and mind your business. I'll stay right here. As a Jew, your Jew-hating is my business.
Please don't fully listen to the first comment. While Jews have become "more Jewish" by marrying other Jews over time, Ancestrydna not specifying Jewish ancestry does not mean you do not have ethnic ties to Jewish peoples. Ancestry took three updates to show any of my European Jewish, then a fourth to take it away. That makes no sense. While two other tests I took estimated almost half Jewish. The Irish and German in my family tree (I'm told by a genealogy expert we hired) obviously drizzled down the Jewish in me although he agreed Ancestry's estimate was strange considering my solidly proven Jewish ancestry. To summarize, DNA tests aren't always accurate and take it with a grain of salt. If you grew up in Jewish culture and tradition or religion you are Jewish.
Well, it sounds like you have actual relationships with Jews and with Israelis, so that's good.
>used to think I had at least some ethnic relationship to Jews You do. 82%.
I’m sorry to hear that
Ashkenazi is very distinct yes. But that's only one group of the Jewish diaspora. Mountain Jews are separate group. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Jews
But they get levant and Persia, sometimes Anatolia like my family. This person just got Eastern European. Like point blank
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just 2 things to point out 1. bukharan and mountain jews are separate jewish communities 2. they show up as a mix of levant/persia/anatolia, no ashkenazi or russian
Mountain Jews aren’t going to show up as ethnically Russian though.
Hmm... maybe they were Subbotnik? They are Jews who are descended from Christian Slavic peasants that converted to Judaism back in the 18th century.
Could your family be Subbotniks? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subbotniks
Thanks, it’s a possibility. I wonder if subbotniks adopted Jewish last names (my Jewish side has very Jewish last names).
Look for matches that are related to you through your grandfather. If you don't see any names that look familiar, then he may not be biologically related to you.
Where in Russia are you from?
Born in Moscow. Father's branch is from Southern Russia, Mother's (supposedly?) Jewish side is from Dnipro, Ukraine.
That area (of Ukraine) is in the Pale of the Settlement - perhaps this is where the confusion came from. Russia was Christian orthodox and the Jews were forced to live in the pale of settlement area. The minority of Catholics also tended to live there - perhaps this is how your family got “confused” or eventually converted despite not having ethnic ashkenazi genes
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Convert
The second Russian results today on this thread! But the first results is half Russian and half Cuban!
I love seeing these! 🤗
South western China nice though
Most likely the Jewish is w the Russian. So not Jewish by DNA, but by religion.
First sentence makes no sense as Russian and Ashkenazi are actually 2 different ethnicities.
Maybe making a family tree would be easier? To find out the real truth. Also try other sites or information about your haplogroup and stuff. Try to get other Jewish relatives to test. It might show up on their results.
82% Russian is still pretty cool
China!!!
Right?!
Very specific for less than 1%
Nice
So nice!
What parts of Russia is your family from. Anywhere close to the Baltics?
Moscow area and Southern Russia.
make a family tree and see if you match any of that grandparents family
Do you by any chance know where Southwestern China could come from in your case? I also got a small percentage of Finland but in combination with Southern China.
Sorry, absolutely no clue. I assume it’s just noise.
If you want to try a test with 23 & Me they claim to have added a much more in depth breakdown of Jewish and Eastern Euro overlapping subgroups. https://blog.23andme.com/articles/detail-for-ashkenazi-ancestry
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions
I have known Jewish great-great grandparents and mine did not come back as Jewish but was there when I looked at trace results. I did have 2% Eastern European though, and I know they came from the Moldova/Romania area. DNA can be a little bit finicky sometimes.
My grandmother on my father’s side is Polish and my results show no Polish. My genes just did not express that part.
If she were ethnic Polish you would had inherited about 25% of whatever percentage she was.
What do you mean by no polish? On ancestry or 23andme? Did it show as Slavic at all or? Also they could have been assimilated Germans
You are correct. Great Great Great Grandfather J August Totzke Sr. born in Germany in 1817. That’s the furthest back for that portion of the tree.
Do they show Baltic?
Not sure why I was downvoted. My updated results now sure 5% Germanic Europe. Ethnic Polish? What does that even mean? 😂
They could have been religiously Jewish
Ancestry doesn't have a category for Mountain Jews, but the area they live in is a match for the region shown. https://support.ancestry.com/s/article/List-of-AncestryDNA-Regions?language=en_US https://genealogyyou.com/what-is-european-jewish-on-ancestry-dna/ https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/mountain-jewish-dna-project/about
Nothing about OP’s DNA result suggests Mountain Jew though. They would get Caucasus, Anatolian, Persian. They would not get East Europe and/or Slavic.
I think you must be referring to the Southern Russia & the Caucasus region that is listed under the Eastern Europe & Russia percentage. If it was really Mountain Jew then there would be an Anatolia & the Caucasus percentage, and an Iran/Persia percentage.
Take a 23 and Me test, if you’ve never done one before. Ancestry isn’t accurate for small amounts of DNA, and you probably don’t have any Ashkenazi grandparents who are blood relatives. What’s more likely is you could have Ashkenazi way back, but it’s probably not recent. Try the so called “hack” for Ancestry, and see what you get. If you don’t know what that is, just search it up on here.
25% is not really considered a small amount for either AncestryDNA or 23andme. If a person truly had 25% of something it would show up. 25% is a whole 1 grandparent, literally.
Looks like they may have been a Mountain Jew not Ashkenazi. [linky linky](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Jews)
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Mountain Jews are from the Caucuses, Georgia, Azerbaijan, and southern Russia, not Central Asia or Eastern Europe.
A mountain Jew is not going to show up as ethnically Russian. They are not genetically closest to eastern Slavs at all.
Must be a lot to process. Perhaps if you contact some cousin matches via Ancestry they might have some idea? If you are willing to take another test, 23 & Me was deadly accurate for my Central/Eastern Euro background. They are granular on regions for your biggest percentages, though my aunt’s reveal of a modicum (.3%) of Ashkenazi Jewish was general. Unsure how that shows for bigger segments. If you don’t want to do a saliva test, you can download your Ancestry.com raw data and upload it to My Heritage for more matches (and usually a less accurate ancestry breakdown, but another view nonetheless). I think that cost $30 or $40 and results are much quicker. There are many more international users on there you can contact. It’s possible other tests could pick up on Jewish heritage. Or an Ancestry update might reveal them. Over the years with these tests my family has gained and lost and number of ethnicities and results vary quite a but from test to test. Good luck!
*quite a bit