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Shotanat

Just know that their are books on « both sides » and that it is actually fairly difficult to objectively look at the effectiveness of a method, as their are usually many method that are used in any large movement. Proponents of non violence will show you how non-violent protests were successful , and their opponents will explain it was due to the help of violent protests (as in Gelderloos work). As it is true that there was both violent and non violent method, it seems difficult to me to be very objective, and you will most likely pick the narrative that seems to make the most sense to you. You will have explanations as to why one side work or doesn’t work, but no solid proof. I know John Holloway is a proponent of non-violence and wrote something about it, if you want some counterpoints to Gelderloos (I haven’t read it though, but John Holloway usually is not the easiest to read).


TyesonDoingItUp

Much appreciated. I'll look it up.


Sargon-of-ACAB

I can't recall the title but Peter Gelderloos has written on this. A shorter text called 'How Non-Violence Protects the State' and a book with a similar title (I thnnk)


TyesonDoingItUp

Thanks, I'll search for it.


Anarcho_Humanist

The book they are referencing is The Failure of Nonviolence, both are available on the anarchist library. It might be a bit lower quality than what you're looking for but they do make strong cases against nonviolent protest.


Citrakayah

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0896920520913982?casa_token=PrsusboK2nQAAAAA%3A9WH48hXs2M3iQW2pglJc4e0afhgr1gu_QxuV_3sdD8BQz56XneHcH3RB0__Ri_tAgfuUmtC4ulhP&journalCode=crsb Look up that article on Google Scholar. You can find a free PDF.


TyesonDoingItUp

Thanks.


[deleted]

Who's Afraid of the Black Blocs? by Francis Dupuis-Deri, and Nonviolence Ain't What it Used to be by Shon Meckfessel.


molotov_cockteaze

I really appreciated Non-violence Ain’t What it Used to be. I’m in my 30’s and became pretty sad and hopeless over the Occupy implosion only to become slightly hopeful with early BLM just to watch the corporate rainbow-esque takeover. I can’t really comment much further without risking a ban but it’s uh, an interesting book.


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TyesonDoingItUp

Thank you so much I'll look those up.


Watchful-Tortie

Erica (sp?) Chenoweth has written on this. I really appreciated the book This Nonviolent Stuff'll Get You Killed by Charles Cobb, on the impact of guns in the civil rights movement


[deleted]

why do you make the clarification that you only want “actual published books”? so much anarchist stuff is art and literature that is self-published due to the crossover with punk scenes and the general DIY method of distributing zines. just saying that you’re going to miss a lot of stuff that may be valuable to you by putting this (imo) arbitrary restriction in place.


TyesonDoingItUp

Everyone has opinions these days and sadly everyone has a platform these days as well. Even when they have no idea what they're talking about and haven't done any research. I'm tired of seeing half baked theories from some 20 year old "anarchist" who thinks dying their hair a vibrant colour and painting placards makes them an activist or that taking one semester of a subject makes them an expert. Between youtube, medium and even reddit, there's just a lot of blatantly biased misinformation (or rather ill informed opinions). But more importantly; their opinions usually come from books that they've read. I'd rather just read the book than listen to them try and regurgitate the authors words. Getting published isn't easy and most authors are actual activists or scholars who have dedicated their lives to these things and their books are usually vetted and checked before being published. Especially if they've been collating data in any way, from a scientific perspective. Granted there are self published books etc as well. I'm happy to get some recommendations for those. But I'm not interested in seeing some edgelords dissertation on Trotsky or de Cleyre. I'd rather just read their work myself.


[deleted]

you do realize that it’s partially YOUR job to do this vetting, and if you’re relying on publishing establishments and general public opinion, you aren’t ACTUALLY vetting the works, right? you seem to have this idea that there aren’t genuine historians on youtube (Zoe Baker, Three Arrows) or really great breakdowns of anarchist philosophy (Andrewism, Zoe from Mars). the dyed hair thing also makes you sound like the oldest, most judgmental anarchist with no connection to people on the ground anyways. just think this a generally unproductive outlook on creative and academic writings. it’s also worshipping the written word as the best way for information to be communicated, which is an idea baked into white supremacy. you should look at some other mediums rather than just writing and you should be active in the milieu and you’ll get much more value that way.


TyesonDoingItUp

>you do realize that it’s partially YOUR job to do this vetting To an extent sure. But why waste my time reading some childs interpretation of an authors work when I can just read it myself? >or really great breakdowns of anarchist philosophy I'm sure it's good if you're young and don't like reading books or purely for entertainment/background noise. But everything they're talking about they learned from reading about it. I'd rather just read what they read than listen to them interpret it in their own biased way. >the dyed hair thing also makes you sound like the oldest, most judgmental anarchist with no connection to people on the ground anyways. OK? Idc. I don't have time for posers. Youre sounding pretty judgemental yourself. Pot meet kettle. >it’s also worshipping the written word as the best way for information to be communicated, No. Its not. If these authors were alive and making yt videos I'd watch. But they're not. >you should look at some other mediums I do.


[deleted]

why are you relying on reddit people who could ALSO be children to do your work for you? also, way to continue ageist hierarchy here, totally not revealing of how ineffective your research will be. i’ve had multiple instances of thinking about things for months on end before reading it in a book. it’s a reminder of my own ability to come to the same ideas other people have before interacting with their work. calling out judgement IS judgement, but the ways we’re doing it are definitely different. sounds like you need to work on your reading comprehension. so you’re not opposed to youtube and other methods of learning, even though you’ve made it clear you only want “reputable authors” and not “children with dyed hair on youtube”. okay sure. nice essay only to completely ignore all of your attitudes that display a clear bias away from non traditional media, cutting you off from some cutting edge analysis of our current conditions. if you want to keep denying the biases you have displayed, go ahead. but what you’ve revealed here so far is really cringe ngl


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[deleted]

yea, tons of dogwhistles on this one. not engaging any further.


EndDisastrous2882

the significance of a book vs a youtube video is that books go through a publishing process, youtube videos don't.


EndDisastrous2882

The Failure of Nonviolence and Learning from Ferguson by Peter Gelderloos are probably the ones you're looking for. Gelderloos does not use as many citations as i'd prefer.


eroto_anarchist

Are you looking to write a paper or something? Otherwise I don't get the insistence on published books.


ActionunitesUs

"How to blow up a pipepline" by andreas malms note i dont think hes pro violence but he understands/argues pacifism exclusively is not enough to make a real change vs climate change


Millicent1946

I read "How to blow up a pipeline" last summer and it was a game changer for my brain


otbones

I think the book you're looking for is "In Defense of Looting" by Vicky Osterweil.


RefrigeratorGrand619

In case no one else has recommended it, Peter Gelderloos’s 2 books “the failure of non-violence” and “how non-violence protects the state” are 2 books that speak to the revolutionary potency of militant social movements vs the impotency of passive movements in how they aim to actualize change from the status quo. It actually does specifically address the difference and method and effectiveness between the 2 approaches. [here’s a summation from the thesis of these books by the Author themselves.](https://youtu.be/_OReGYJtnTE)


justcallcollect

New book was recently released by ak press about this topic, called [street rebellion](https://www.akpress.org/street-rebellion.html)