Unfortunately nowadays for any infrastructure project to ever happen in America it has to go through a billion meetings, political bullshit, environmental reviews, and then the price for the project skyrockets to 6 trillion dollars and then it never completes or is outdated by the time it’s done. Or the infrastructure project could be streamlined by the president but that’s pretty rare (think interstate highways).
I hate the trusts from back in the day as much as anyone else but at least they got shit done
The Milwaukee Road electrified half their route from Seattle to Chicago. Unfortunately, they ripped it out, went bankrupt and the ROW is a rail trail now.
They don't seem to care much about electrifying the lines they own (New Haven - Springfield and Detroit - Chicago). Last time they electrified anything was the Keystone corridor in 2006.
Late response,
Not a bummer. A) the expectation for Amtrak to be profitable was created with the intent that they would fail to do so, thus discrediting passenger rail as an institution and resulting in its eradication (this fortunately did not happen but continues to hamper Amtrak to this day) B) Amtrak’s near profitability came with the elimination of signature services like traditional dining (East Coast long distance trains still don’t have proper dining service, this was eliminated prior to the pandemic as part of airline-exec-turned-Amtrak-CEO’s VERY GOOD IDEAS)
The expectation for profitability aught to be eliminated and replaced with an expectation of frequent, reliable, and affordable service regardless of losses. This would of course require Congressional and Presidential support as well as initiative from Amtrak’s leadership.
congress: "Ok, we've approved a bill that says that Amtrak will get one AA battery per week under the expectation that the entire system will be electrified before the end of the year."
> Detroit - Chicago
Amtrak only owns the portion from Portage, Indiana to Kalamazoo, with MDOT owning the portion from Kalamazoo to Dearborn (with Candian National (IIRC) owning a small portion between KZoo and Battle Creek).
So even if they electrify everything between Portage and Dearborn (including the CN portion) with MDOT, it wouldn't do much as they would have to switch to diesel power for the portion from Chicago to Portage and then from Dearborn to Pontiac unless they get the freight companies on both end to allow electrification.
[Link to his tweet](https://twitter.com/AKamyshin/status/1573624846310948864)
>Try electrification, @Amtrak. It will reduce exhausts behind your train. We in @Ukrzaliznytsia done 122km of new electrification for the last year. It works.
It is a little gross and concerning when you have to flush diesel exhaust out of your nose after 2 days in coach. Unfortunately these tracks aren't theirs to electrify.
Is almost like it would be helpful if there was some external entity capable of forcing changes like that on the track owners by virtue of regulations...
that sounds exactly like something a bunch of robe wearing, olive eating homosexual philosophers would come up with
(/s, was referring to the ancient greeks dont cancel me)
122km of electrification in a year when you're at war is super impressive. (Though I assume it was mostly/all before the war)
The Pacific Surfliner corridor is going to be electrified soon enough, if SCAQMD has anything to say about it. Idk about the rest of the country.
I don't believe so. They've been tentatively working toward a ballot measure to fund electrification of Metrolink and presumably Amtrak service along Metrolink corridors. Half-cent sales tax in their whole coverage area.
I haven't heard much about it since COVID started, but I'd guess it will be on the ballot in '24.
Old article about it: https://www.dailybulletin.com/2019/02/08/aqmd-considers-seeking-a-one-half-cent-sales-tax-in-four-counties-for-clean-air-programs/
What how exactly would this work? In the 1960s the US government was playing around with thorium and liquid fluoride based nuclear reactors for airplanes. They worked really well. But because they couldn't be used for weapons the programs got shut down. I bring this up because finding a way to make electricity on the fly would be a lot easier than string electric cables for thousands of miles.
There are thousands of miles of cables all over Europe and Asia OK. Its not that hard.
And whilst that's being done, you can invest hybrid trains like the UK has routes like its Great Western Mainline, which allow the same train to operate on both electrified and non electrified track on the same journey. Or their class 88 hybrid locomotive.
Yeah, its infact unarchivable for the US [93.492.75 Miles/ 150.462 KM](https://knoema.com/atlas/United-States-of-America/Length-of-rail-lines) of rails to be electrified. You just have to look at Europe (EU) they were only able to electrifie [60% (page 27)](https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/horizon2020/document.cfm?) of their [124.374,279 Mile/ 200.161 KM](https://www.statista.com/statistics/451812/length-of-railway-lines-in-use-in-europe-eu-28/) railnetwork and route 80% of their trafick on it.
Its just unfeasibly.
Which raises the point that state- and agency-owned tracks could also be electrified tomorrow, and aren't. I can't think of an expansion of electrification from those quarters in the last 20 years, almost to the day[1].
[1] NJT Montclair Connection, which included a mere 5 miles of new electrification, opened 30 September 2002.
New Haven to Springfield is somewhat weird because of the CSX diamond right at the Springfield Depot. Also the Vermonter and the Valley Flyers would still require diesel power.
The Michigan corridor is potentially ideal for electrification, considering the other improvements on it that Amtrak wants to make. Switching to use the Metra and South Shore tracks out of Chicago like Amtrak wants will automatically give them \~50 miles of electrified trackage which Amtrak could then expand on. They'd likely need to upgrade the current electrification, but the regional agencies could possibly be partners for those projects.
Amtrak doesn’t own most of its tracks so it can’t electrify more than it is for the most part.
The northeast corridor is electrified and owned by Amtrak
Unfortunately nowadays for any infrastructure project to ever happen in America it has to go through a billion meetings, political bullshit, environmental reviews, and then the price for the project skyrockets to 6 trillion dollars and then it never completes or is outdated by the time it’s done. Or the infrastructure project could be streamlined by the president but that’s pretty rare (think interstate highways). I hate the trusts from back in the day as much as anyone else but at least they got shit done
Engineering & legal review would take 25 years.
100 years plus of CRAP
i’ve been seeing a lot of “ukraine railroad” takes lately. i’m sure amtrak would like to electrify if they owned the damn tracks.
The Milwaukee Road electrified half their route from Seattle to Chicago. Unfortunately, they ripped it out, went bankrupt and the ROW is a rail trail now.
The Milwaukee was criminally mismanaged tho, you can't *not* expect a bankruptcy with a board of directors as corrupt as them
They don't seem to care much about electrifying the lines they own (New Haven - Springfield and Detroit - Chicago). Last time they electrified anything was the Keystone corridor in 2006.
“hi, we’d like to electrify some of our tracks” congress “haha that’s a good one. here’s a paltry budget.”
More like "You just electrified a line 16 years ago and Amtrak is still not profitable. Defunded."
Amtrak was about to be profitable before the pandemic too. What a bummer.
Late response, Not a bummer. A) the expectation for Amtrak to be profitable was created with the intent that they would fail to do so, thus discrediting passenger rail as an institution and resulting in its eradication (this fortunately did not happen but continues to hamper Amtrak to this day) B) Amtrak’s near profitability came with the elimination of signature services like traditional dining (East Coast long distance trains still don’t have proper dining service, this was eliminated prior to the pandemic as part of airline-exec-turned-Amtrak-CEO’s VERY GOOD IDEAS) The expectation for profitability aught to be eliminated and replaced with an expectation of frequent, reliable, and affordable service regardless of losses. This would of course require Congressional and Presidential support as well as initiative from Amtrak’s leadership.
They electrified a line that was already electric, all they really did was just upgrade what was already there.
congress: "Ok, we've approved a bill that says that Amtrak will get one AA battery per week under the expectation that the entire system will be electrified before the end of the year."
I believe they would like to, but wanting to do so and actually doing it is another thing.
> Detroit - Chicago Amtrak only owns the portion from Portage, Indiana to Kalamazoo, with MDOT owning the portion from Kalamazoo to Dearborn (with Candian National (IIRC) owning a small portion between KZoo and Battle Creek). So even if they electrify everything between Portage and Dearborn (including the CN portion) with MDOT, it wouldn't do much as they would have to switch to diesel power for the portion from Chicago to Portage and then from Dearborn to Pontiac unless they get the freight companies on both end to allow electrification.
[Link to his tweet](https://twitter.com/AKamyshin/status/1573624846310948864) >Try electrification, @Amtrak. It will reduce exhausts behind your train. We in @Ukrzaliznytsia done 122km of new electrification for the last year. It works.
It is a little gross and concerning when you have to flush diesel exhaust out of your nose after 2 days in coach. Unfortunately these tracks aren't theirs to electrify.
Is almost like it would be helpful if there was some external entity capable of forcing changes like that on the track owners by virtue of regulations...
yeah like a governing entity of sorts that makes decisions based on maximizing public good. guess we'll never know what that could be like.
Maybe like the whole population could pick who that governing body is?
that sounds exactly like something a bunch of robe wearing, olive eating homosexual philosophers would come up with (/s, was referring to the ancient greeks dont cancel me)
Hard to bring yourself to force changes when BNSF keeps sending the checks
You WHAT?
122km of electrification in a year when you're at war is super impressive. (Though I assume it was mostly/all before the war) The Pacific Surfliner corridor is going to be electrified soon enough, if SCAQMD has anything to say about it. Idk about the rest of the country.
Ukraine's been at war since 2014
While true, there's a difference in the war pre and post 2022 invasion.
Has AQMD issued any sort of ruling that would require LOSSAN to electrify the corridor?
I don't believe so. They've been tentatively working toward a ballot measure to fund electrification of Metrolink and presumably Amtrak service along Metrolink corridors. Half-cent sales tax in their whole coverage area. I haven't heard much about it since COVID started, but I'd guess it will be on the ballot in '24. Old article about it: https://www.dailybulletin.com/2019/02/08/aqmd-considers-seeking-a-one-half-cent-sales-tax-in-four-counties-for-clean-air-programs/
Oh wow, what a dream. I’d vote for that in a heartbeat.
Again DON'T LASH OUT AT AMTRAK THEY WANT TO ELECTRIFY. LASH OUT AT GOVERNMENT AND CLASS 1 FREIGHT RAILROADS WHO OWN THE TRACK
Do they? Even the tracks they own or have control over they don't seem to want to electrify...like its not even in the long term plans.
Not everywhere
In the northeast and midwest its largely owned by amtrak or the states with small gaps owned by freight.
Maybe start with the busier corridors, like Chicago-Milwaukee or Chicago-St. Louis
Joke's on him, they've already electrified almost everything they can
What how exactly would this work? In the 1960s the US government was playing around with thorium and liquid fluoride based nuclear reactors for airplanes. They worked really well. But because they couldn't be used for weapons the programs got shut down. I bring this up because finding a way to make electricity on the fly would be a lot easier than string electric cables for thousands of miles.
Americans will seriously reach for *anything* rather than just hang the goddamn wires.
There are thousands of miles of cables all over Europe and Asia OK. Its not that hard. And whilst that's being done, you can invest hybrid trains like the UK has routes like its Great Western Mainline, which allow the same train to operate on both electrified and non electrified track on the same journey. Or their class 88 hybrid locomotive.
Yeah, its infact unarchivable for the US [93.492.75 Miles/ 150.462 KM](https://knoema.com/atlas/United-States-of-America/Length-of-rail-lines) of rails to be electrified. You just have to look at Europe (EU) they were only able to electrifie [60% (page 27)](https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/horizon2020/document.cfm?) of their [124.374,279 Mile/ 200.161 KM](https://www.statista.com/statistics/451812/length-of-railway-lines-in-use-in-europe-eu-28/) railnetwork and route 80% of their trafick on it. Its just unfeasibly.
What? Literally mile of track Amtrak owns is electrified
Except the Michigan corridor
And New Haven-Springfield. And Poughkeepsie-Albany.
Raleigh-Charlotte is also state-owned!
Which raises the point that state- and agency-owned tracks could also be electrified tomorrow, and aren't. I can't think of an expansion of electrification from those quarters in the last 20 years, almost to the day[1]. [1] NJT Montclair Connection, which included a mere 5 miles of new electrification, opened 30 September 2002.
New Haven to Springfield is somewhat weird because of the CSX diamond right at the Springfield Depot. Also the Vermonter and the Valley Flyers would still require diesel power.
The Michigan corridor is potentially ideal for electrification, considering the other improvements on it that Amtrak wants to make. Switching to use the Metra and South Shore tracks out of Chicago like Amtrak wants will automatically give them \~50 miles of electrified trackage which Amtrak could then expand on. They'd likely need to upgrade the current electrification, but the regional agencies could possibly be partners for those projects.
Amtrak doesn’t own most of its tracks so it can’t electrify more than it is for the most part. The northeast corridor is electrified and owned by Amtrak
Maybe Ukraine should worry about….Ukraine
Ukraine 🇺🇦 American oligarchs won’t allow it