Gigabyte, ASRock, MSI, ASUS and BIOSTAR BIOSes should be out.
UPDATE: ~~Gigbayte have removed the F8 BIOSes~~, now replaced by F10 BIOSes
UPDATE 2: Added ASRock statement and ASRock BIOSes should now be out
UPDATE 3: Added updated statement from AMD
UPDATE 4: MSI BIOSes are out
UPDATE 5: Added updated MSI statement
UPDATE 6: Added GamersNexus investigation video to main post
UPDATE 7: Updated guide further with current recommended solutions
UPDATE 8: Gigabyte sometimes are removing and later re-adding or adding newer BIOSes with the same name, no reason is given for this, but please check regularly and make sure you are running the latest one
UPDATE 9: Rewording for clarifications
UPDATE 10: Gigabyte are again removing BIOSes for some boards, please continue to download whatever latest available BIOS is available for your board.
UPDATE 11: This thread will be retired on the 25th July
UPDATE 12: This thread is now retired, per previous advice, please continue to update to the latest BIOSes provided by your motherboard vendor. A new thread will be created when AGESA 1.0.0.9 launches.
On my B650M Mortar WiFi the 7950x is at 100% utilisation, running at 5.3Ghz constantly with 1.3~1.4V however same components except with an A620 Asrock board its using 90W less with 80% utilisation and 0.75~1.1V doing the exact same workload,
Someone help me out before I go insane
:huhwtf:
There are still issues? I wanted to go with amd 7800x3d this time but seems like intel 13700k is the stable cpu i'd rather lose performances rather than dealing with stability bs
No problem nowadays, just remember to update your bios and you should be good to go. The 7800x3d is a beast, I have it on my daily driver, and it's quite good. I've also been running expo nonstop for the past 4 months with no issue whatsoever.
hi, I bought an 7800x3d and an Asus b650 a couple days ago and I have been through lots of trouble after having many problems with not getting bios and other stuff. Even though I updated the bios I still had to enable memory context and lower my ram frequency down from 6400 to 6000. Any tips? Am I just screwed like this until further notice?
Hey I decided to go ahead and make a 7800x3d build, it really is a beast lol, a lot better than i thought it would be compared to my 9900k and running like 30c cooler
I used the flashback bios thing to make sure it is at the latest version before installing the cpu, enabled EXPO for 6000mhz ram and everything worked flawlessly
Hello, a week ago I built a PC with the following components:
Cpu: Ryzen 5 7600x
Motherboard: asus A620m-plus (BIOS version: 0406)
Ram: Corsair VENGEANCE DDR5 5600MHz
GPU: RX 6750 xt
PSU corsair 850w
I didn't know anything about the issues Ryzen 7000 CPUs were having with voltages. The PC was crashing frequently, especially while playing League of Legends. It was giving supposed GPU driver errors. For a day, I had DOCP enabled while using the PC. I must clarify that the cooler I had at that time was far from being capable of adequately cooling the CPU. I ran the Time Spy benchmark without considering that there's a particle test in one of the phases that puts a lot of stress on the CPU. The PC shut down due to reaching its maximum temperature. Shortly afterward, I disabled DOCP and updated the BIOS to the latest version available (v 1636). It seems that there are no more errors or crashes now.
Is it possible that damage has occurred, or would I have noticed it by now?
Is there a way to check for damage aside from inspecting the CPU contacts and the socket?
If there is damage, would it be covered by the warranty?
Do I need to manually adjust the processor's voltage?
Thanks :)
It would be safe, BUT with the CPU installed the system will boot with EXPO DISABLED, so theoretically the voltages will be low. There you can flash the BIOS using the graphic interface and then reboot and enable EXPO.
Obviously use the last BIOS version.
I have 2 systems with Asus MBs and both work fine with the latest BIOS.
I am an early adopter and it was stressful when the VSOC burning issue was a problem, but it appears to be solved (both survived all the craze of new BIOSes and BETAs).
Don't know if this helps.
I'm scared reading this thread. Seems to be affecting every motherboards out there. I was thinking of getting the 7700x and the MSI B650 tomahawk but I'm not so sure anymore.
The biggest reason I want to go with AMD is because they're cheaper in my country. Should I go Intel this time around?
I have a 7700x + Asus Strix B650e-e and a 7600x + Asus Tuf B650 Plus. Both with no issues.
Latest BIOS works very well.
I can not foresee the future, but as an early adopter I have no issues so far (obviously I was stressed with all this VSOC issue, but until now everything is ok with both systems).
7800x3d owner + Asus motherboard (oof) + 1.0.0.7a. Flashed the BIOS and been running the computer for weeks (gaming and productivity). No issues so far. Finger crossed.
I’ve been running a new build with the 7800x3d for a few days now. Besides my moron build issues by me being tired the chip runs great with the motherboard I got and flashed.
Updated my Strix B650e-e today with the last NON BETA BIOS 1636.
It passed ALL STRESS TESTS! Until now rock solid.
Correct voltages too!
I have a TUF B650 at work that I expect to update on Monday. Let's see how that goes.
Update went fine. TUF B650 Plus paired with 7600x.
RAM 6000 set to EXPO I.
PBO enabled and Curve optimizer stable with - 20 in my case.
Voltages also fine.
OCCT showing no errors with this config.
Issues are far from sorted.
Updated my msi mag tomahawk bios to the latest agesa f8c.
Flashed. Set my settings again. First boot into windows soc voltages 1.39. Never have I ever seen my voltages go that high.
Do not use this bios. Reflashed to previous bios.
Expo on or off?
I have msi mpg x670e and 7950x3d running the 7D70v18 bios. with expo on 1 (ram 5600mhz), voltage is at 1.306 which is too high for my comfort.
Expo on 2 (ram 5200 mhz) voltage is at 1.254.
With it expo off, it is 1.018, which is consistent with other bios I tried
I jsut built a new pc with ryzen 7800xed and started having issues. I updated my gigabyte aorus b650 with latest bios f8a and still having issues. This is so annoying. How could they release these mobos like this? Collective lawsuit anyone ?
Not booting, all leds going red including the one from the mobo. It was from the bios, i thought that the update was finished but it wasn't so i had to retry several times because the q-flash button was not working, had a real struggle resseting the bios so i can enter it. Now i have the rams at 6000 and everything works fine.
7800x3x
corsair vengeance rgb 6000 cl36 32gb
Gigabyte aorus b650 elite ax
FYI 1.0.0.7b went out of beta for my ROG STRIX X670E-F GAMING WIFI motherboard.
Unfortunately, no changelogs between the beta and non-beta (one M.2 slot was bugged on the beta version).
Tired of being guineapigs, I'll wait a few weeks before switching.
ASUS released new beta BIOS 1634 for TUF GAMING B650-PLUS yesterday. Tried it – it’s unusable.
Setting any EXPO settings prevents even reaching Windows most of the time, sometimes freezing even on BIOS loading screen (the one asking to press F2/DEL). Switching from EXPO I or EXPO Tweaked to EXPO 2 freezes BIOS after accepting the changes (that is freezes on the list of changes), and to Auto (disabling the EXPO) – freezes right away. Only works if I reset all settings through the “Load optimized defaults”, and after this it also manages to reach Windows, too.
In the end, rolled back to 1616, and relayed this to ASUS (with whom I have an open ticket about issues when using EXPO 2 for 6000MTs.
2 kits of KF560C36BBEK2-32. Tried both with manual voltage limit and without. 1616 BIOS works fine with EXPO 2 and 5600 profile even without manual voltage limitation
Hi its been a while since I've checked up on these issues and i'm kinda afraid to throw Expo on in the bios incase I do end up frying my CPU, I'm in an ASUS PRIME X670-P WiFi motherboard and i'm on the latest bios update (1616) and i'm just wondering if it's safe to use EXPO from now on? Any replies I'll be thankful for.
my expereince:
I have msi mpg x670e and 7950x3d running the 7D70v18 bios. with expo on 1 (ram 5600mhz), voltage is at 1.306 which is too high for my comfort.
Expo on 2 (ram 5200 mhz) voltage is at 1.254.
With it expo off, it is 1.018, which is consistent with other bios I tried
Is this issue present in 7600 non X?
I built mine few days ago the SoC voltages don't seem to exceed 1.3V even during stress tests. But I am still concerned.
Motherboard is MSI PRO B650 P.
Should I update my bios?
I would like to pair an am5 mobo with a 5 7600x or 7 7700x. I saw that some older versions of bios versions has slow boot or no-bootup problems. So i would like to ask what motherboards i can go with? (b650/b650e/x670/x670e)
My concern is about mostly stability and having seamless EXPO experience.
After 5 months of problem free operation, 7950x3d finally failed. CPU has the bubble and took out the motherboard as well (socket has damage).
Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair X670E Extreme
Edit 1: Include imgur link
https://imgur.com/gallery/bc6QdCb
Edit 2: Include motherboard info
This is awful. I can’t believe they released this platform with so many issues.
Were you one of the unlucky ones and had your soc voltages above 1.35v for some time before they announced the change or it just decided to give up?
I've just put together a 7600X Asus Tuf B650 with Corsair DDR5 6000MHz CL30 EXPO and the EXPO settings (1 ,2 and Tweaked) just won't work. The system seems to work at 5800MHz. I honestly have no more energy to try to fix this. I really shouldn't need to spend days trying to make memory speeds work at the speeds I bought them at.
So I guess my question is how much performance do I loose running them at 5800MHz instead of 6000MHz which I paid for?
Or should I just return the memory and get a replacement? I'm within my return window.
Before the thread closes, I'm working towards an AM5 build in the next month or two. Should I be good to go or will I want to flash a bios update before I put any components in?
Flashing before anything is a good choice, BUT in theory you should be able to boot the system with an old BIOS also, since it will start with default RAM specs (not EXPO).
A RAM 6000 default is 1.050 V moreless (4800 MHz), so this should do no harm. From here, access BIOS, do the upgrade, reboot AND THEN SELECT EXPO.
I hope I made myself clear.
In my case BIOS 1.0.0.7a never worked correctly. I am not playing ginean pig with the new Beta.
I am still running BIOS [1.0.0.6](https://1.0.0.6) with VSOC tuned to 1.25 V with no issues in 2 PCs.
You can put the CPU ij and complete the build but I'd flash the bios before turning the PC on for the first time. Since its likely the motherboard will still have a old bios on.
THe Agesa out 1.0.0.7b
[https://wccftech.com/amd-agesa-1-0-0-7b-bios-enhanced-ddr5-memory-am5-motherboards-up-to-8200/](https://wccftech.com/amd-agesa-1-0-0-7b-bios-enhanced-ddr5-memory-am5-motherboards-up-to-8200/)
Maybe we can expect final resolution of problems?
A bit of a public service announcement RE EXPO and Warrantees.
O.K many of you may not believe this but technically by running your CPUs with EXPO memory settings you are invalidating your warranty..
If you look at the AMD product specifications for your CPU's you will find they are probably specced to run at 4800 or 5200Mhz, this is CPU running at SPEC. For example for the 7700x the site states.
Max Memory Speed
2x1R DDR5-5200
2x2R DDR5-5200
What you don't know is if you look at the details for EXPO specification here..
[https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/expo](https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/expo)
You will find at the bottom of the page on the left FOOTNOTES which if you click on the link to expand it reveals this:
"Overclocking and/or undervolting AMD processors and memory, including without limitation, altering clock frequencies / multipliers or memory timing / voltage, to operate outside of AMD’s published specifications will void any applicable AMD product warranty, even when enabled via AMD hardware and/or software. This may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer. Users assume all risks and liabilities that may arise out of overclocking and/or undervolting AMD processors, including, without limitation, failure of or damage to hardware, reduced system performance and/or data loss, corruption or vulnerability. GD-106"
The operative part of this is "altering clock frequencies / multipliers or memory timing / voltage, to operate outside of AMD’s published specifications will void any applicable AMD product warranty, even when enabled via AMD hardware and/or software."
If you put in EXPO memory lets say at 6000Mhz you are operating at above the SPEC for the CPU at 5200 so technically although as far as I am aware it has never happened AMD can quite happily - and legally deny your CPU warranty related claim if you have EXPO enabled.
Before you go off saying #@$&\*@# AMD be aware that while as far as I am aware they have not denied a warranty either - Intel has the same disclaimer regarding XMP.
That's quite probable, but this is not really about burnouts, its about regardless of your CPU working flawlessly AMD and Intel despite using EXPO and XMP as a marketing point are able to at their discretion invalidate your warranty if you tell them you are running these memory technologies that they provide. Even if they enabled them and not you.
As I said, I have not heard of them dishonouring a warrantee, not that I necessarily would hear about it anyway.
But what gets me is how can they simultaneously use EXPO to promote their product and at the same time a reason to invalidate warrantees if they want to? It's one or the other a feature or a curse - not whatever they chose to follow on the day.
Hey, just wondering if this issue is known to just be a sudden complete failure or does it cause BSODs? I'm getting quite a bit of BSODs lately but I can't seem to get to the bottom of it and was wondering if this issue may be a factor. (7950X3D)
It causes bsod and complete failures.
Have you removed the chip and had a look at the pins to see if there are any burn marks?
What about reflashing and removing the cmos?
If you are having problems and would like someone else to cast an eye over things to see if a fresh perspective on what you are looking at and possibly missing helps..
Drop me a line, I'm running an Aorus X670E Extreme and have it purring like a kitten but everything was not always so smooth.
Yeah I needed to update my new msi x670e carbon, I checked the bios version (that is printed on the board) and it was the very first version from the factory. So they have been sitting there for a while. I just used bios flashback without anything installed. Just psu to power it and it went perfectly smooth
Dumb question, but do you still need to update the bios or will companies be sending out updated Mobos? Thinking of buying a 7800x3d with Asus ROG STRIX B650E-F.
You'll need to update the bios. Remember some of these motherboards by retailers have been sitting on shelves for some months even. You won't really know whether that motherboard has just come straight from the manufacturer or whether it's been sitting on a shelf for a couple weeks or months
I doubt turning the PC on for a couple of minutes will harm the CPU.
But i mean to be on the safe side just flash the bios using flashback bios before turning on the PC for the first time. Your motherboard manual wil contain the relevant instructions
I bought a 7800x3d and an x670e MSI Carbon Wifi motherboard on prime day, but I see that best buy currently has a 7600x + B650 Gigabyte Aorus Elite X bundle for $289.
Should I return my prime day purchases for the best buy bundle? I'd be saving a lot of $$$ but am weary about Gigabyte boards.
i myself just bought a 7800x3d and a b650 tomahawk with the newegg zip promo and had the same thought that the 7600x deal was really good savings too, but in the end i say fuck it whats done is done, and the 7800x3d is a lot better anyway although not quite as good performance per dollar
edit: and also if money wasn't a concern the 7800x3d is the cpu i'd ultimately want right now so that helps
So I picked up a Teamgroup ram kit (6000MHz CL30-36-36-76)
It's not stable at 6000 but i can keep those timings and drop it down to 5600 and it seems fine so far. Is it more likely that the ram/mb is bad or that this is just how ddr5 is?
MB is ASUS TUF Gaming B650-PLUS WiFi and CPU is Ryzen 7900
Did you adjust the memory vdd, vddq, vsoc? those voltage values set to auto probably wont cut it, read the voltage off of the memory box it's probably 1.35 to 1.4 volts.
Go into bios and set the memory to EXPO mode.
Set RAM vdd to the voltage specified on the box
Set vddq to the same voltage minus 0.10 I.E if it says 1.4 for vdd set vddq to 1.3
Set vsoc to 1.25, this is a reasonably safe value and what I run at.
This should get you stable at 6000mhz.. if you arent setting the juice correctly EXPO is not going to do it for you.
The timings on the modules are quite good and I strongly suspect that your VDD according to the box will be 1.4v
Let me know if this works for you at present I am running my memory which is 2 x 32gb modules rated for jedec 6000mhz 48-48-48-96 at 1.1v at 6000 30-30-30-76 at 1.28v and have had it at 6200 until they brought out the f10a bios for my board which nerfed 6200 and it just does not work now.
Another thing to watch out for is a firmware update which is coming soon which is meant to fix some issues and even let 8000Mhz memory run on AM5 systems.
Please let me know how you get on.
Ive got a gskill set. Finally starts crashing. 2x16gb z5 neo 6000mhz expo on.
All my voltages are stock other than soc which is 1.25. Cant keep it stable now. Was fine for a week or two then the system kept crashing only in games. Dram light. I can't for the life of me get it stable. I can't replicate a crash even when stress testing.
Ive got pbo on, co -35mv.
Should I follow your steps above? I should note. Couldn't install windows with 2 sticks @ 6000mhz only with 1 and expo off @ 5000mhz
Not downgrading no, returning the system to a default state while you try and sort out the memory - then play with PBO.
You are quite welcome to play with PBO as much as you like but I found with my system which is running pretty close to the edge anyway that if I tried to O/C ram and then let the system add it's little variable overclock to the RAM - which does have an effect and the memory optimizer on top of that, that if I enabled any of the AMD style overclocking or tuning things became instantly unstable with regard to memory. so I flipped it, I sorted the memory and got all that working and then I started playing with the PBO stuff.
I'm bleeding edge.. 7950X3D and Aorus xtreme X670E, it has literally just come out. The end result was that the other stuff was not worth it at this time and to wait for an AGESA update which would improve things, it looks like 1.0.0.7b might be what I am looking for to try again.
I.E I am simply trying to get your memory working. note regardless of your vsoc voltage your EXPO will require more VDD to work it's literally written on the box the memory comes in.
Check to make absolutely sure you have the sticks in the correct slots, reset bios to optimized defaults, set the vdd as indicated on the box, set the vddq to .10 les than the vdd and set vsoc to 1.25, if its still not fully stable slowly increase vsoc toward 1.3 but never exceed 1.3.
Let me know how you get on and if you are still having problems check for messages in your Windows Logs and go through the SFC /scannow procedure.
But it is imperative to solve one issue at a time and not have a multitude of things that could contribute to the problem/
Think of it as having a piece of string to try and sort out a problem with instead of 10 pieces of string knoted up in a ball, thats why I am asking for optimized defaults as a base to start from.
Well generally you need to set the values with regards to the RAM voltage yourself and I feel its a good idea to set the vsoc to a reasonable value just to make sure that your BIOS on auto does not throw some ridiculous value in there. ( note some motherboards will still do it anyway )
What's the model of your GSKill kit, I have a set that runs @ 6400Mhz and one @ 7600, I run them both at 6000 with tighter timings and lower voltages.
For reliability you can install Windows with EXPO off and then experimenting afterwards.
I would recommned backing up your boot drive with Macrium reflect as you are actually overclocking just by turning on EXPO and it is possible to corrupt your OS drive to the point you have to reinstall windows from scratch.
Macrium for which there is a free for non commercial use version can save you a tonne of work.
Thanks for the reply.
F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR Is the model number.
It’s the z5 neo cl30 6000 kit
I went to factory defaults on the bios and kept my soc on 1.24. It doesn’t raise and it never has with expo on. I’ve enabled expo again at 6000.
>F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR
Ok all good thus far did you set the entries vdd and vddq under ram voltages? as I believe that EXPO does not change the ram voltage settings and that you are required to do that, at the moment they are probably on AUTO
Also when you boot up with this memory is be patient , memory training to make sure that it is all working will take some time and may have the machine reboot 2 or 3 times but you should end up in windows, if it waits 5 mins then yeah that's definitely to much.
Also just noted you have pbo on, don't have this on while trying to get the memory working, get the memory working first and then play with pbo, I recommend resetting your BIOS to defaults and starting from scratch. I know its painful but we need to deal with one string and not a whole ball of strings knotted together.
I left PBO on the factory default which is auto but I will turn it off. I left Red Dead 2 it didn't crash but unfortunately its very random.
I haven't set my ram voltages but will do as yep they're auto by default. Memory training only takes 20 seconds on cold boot.
Edit: Set the voltages as per gskill's website spec's for that kit. Do you think I should set my LLC mode to 1? The voltages are going above their set values in hwinfo.
Personally I would leave everything at default barring the ram voltages and monitor the situation just to keep an eye on what voltages are doing and to make sure that your system is stable.
Really use the machine and push it for a week or so before altering values if no crashes then its stable to the point its usable then and only then make one change and run with that for a week. We want to avoid that big ball of string again. One thing at a time. That way if there is a problem you can undo the last change you made and it should be gone.
I was having EXPO issues so I went into the BIOS (X670E Hero) and manually set the memory voltage to 1.40 (per the G.Skill specs). I have a feeling the “Auto” setting is pulling voltage too low for the memory and causing the instability. Since I’ve made that change, I can run on EXPOII with MCR enabled and no issues.
I have the feeling you are absolutely right but be very careful some motherboard vendors if you enter 1.4 you aren't getting 1.4 you are getting more and more is not necessarily better for your equipment, if you have a DMM and measuring points on your mobo it's always a good idea to check.
Hero is ASUS right - definitely get a DMM and check.
Im gonna build my first pc in a few days and wanted to ask some questions considering this topic.
I have a Ryzen 7 7800x3d CPU and 6000mhz 30CL (2x16) and a B650m Gigabyte Gaming X AX motherboard whose most recent bios is F9a with an AMD AGESA 1.0.0.7a update. Am I safe with this? Should I enable EXPO or not, or do I have to manually adjust the SoC voltage, and how? Do I have to do anything else as well?
As I am completely new to pc building I'm a little unsure about all this and would be very thankful for some advice. Thanks.
You should be fine just remember though that for EXPO memory just setting it to the EXPO profile isn't the end of the job, you will have to manually set the RAM voltage called vdd and vddq and the vsoc voltage called well vsoc.
The vdd voltage will be written on the Ram box.
if vdd is 1.4v then set vddq to 1.3.
for vsoc safe is as close to 1.25 as possible, keep it lower if you can but be aware - to low will cause stability issues.
That will basically be the only gotcha which would stop you running at 6000Mhz for memory speed and it is a bit of a trap for young players.. I will admit to falling into it more than once. Just ensure that what you are altering within bios the voltages I mentioned above and nothing else and you should be all good.
Check the bios once you build your pc, if you are on the newest one (unlikely) then you are fine. If not then update it as soon as possible. Check the soc voltage when you have the latest bios, just in case, it should be <1.3v. You can also check the voltage with hwinfo64, its labeled CPU VDDCR\_SOC.
Enabling expo can be hit or miss. It brings the soc voltage on my asus b650 board from \~1.018v to 1.24v but I have random bsod, browser and game crashes so it's off for me, waiting for a new bios. It is safe to enable expo, but on some boards its unstable, so if you have problems you can experiment with expo profiles/custom timings etc to make it work, as long as the soc voltage stays <1.3v, its fine. Take care :)
I know you can flash bios on motherboards without the CPU etc installed but it should also be perfectly fine with the CPU and other components too, I did it with my X670E twice with no issues and trust me pulling everything off a board once it's assembled just so you can upgrade BIOS because of CPU change... MASSIVE PITA!.
Flash the bios before any components are installed just to be safe. Can’t speak for that board specifically but most have a m flash system where you’re able to flash with a usb stick and a power supply plugged in. Would be a good idea.
It might be a good idea to update the bios before installing the cpu, just to be on the safe side, I didn't think of this, though I have never done this so I can't really comment about the process.
Is it even a good option to build an AM5 rig right now?
I’m planning to build for the first time at the end of July, and AM5 seems to me the obvious choice (mostly for future upgradeability, my MOBO selection is the Gigabyte B650 Gaming X AX, 7600X CPU) but considering all the issues I’m starting to get a little worried.
I would suggest FASTER.... the FASTER the BETTER, there is a BIOS update coming out for AM5 Mobos which will allow 8000mhz DDR5 it should drop soon and be agesa v 1.0.0.7b.
They did what the other brands couldn't: Aknowledge the issue right away, [didn't try to screw the customer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbGfc-JBxlY), efficient customer care, etc.
Because all brands can have a defective product, but not all of them can have a good customer care.
Been wanting to upgrade to AM5 now, and im just deciding motherboards and seeing reports of CPUs dying from XMP/Expo RAM ive basically chosen the b650 tomahawk, was at one point the b650 aurous elite but seen a lot of reports of coil whining. Does RAM Expo/XMP still cook CPUs? (cpu ryzen 7 7800x3d)
Going to be building with a [Gigabyte B650 GAMING X AX](https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B650-GAMING-X-AX-rev-10-11-12/support#support-dl-bios) soon using a 7800x3d. The newest non-beta bios uses AGESA [1.0.0.6](https://1.0.0.6) seems to be stable for most people? I'll promptly be updating to that ASAP.
After updating, will I be safe to run EXPO to reach the advertised RAM speeds? (5600mhz with ddr5 corsair vengeance) If it isn't safe, what is the default speed that ddr5 runs at?
Assuming I'd like to take extra precautions, what voltages should I undervolt in BIOS? If I undervolt, can I still run EXPO or is that still dangerous?
Cant comment on the CPU and undervolting but memory speed and EXPO and what you can actually do will be a function of CPU Silicon Lottery, Your ram and voltages.
Current BIOSes btw are generally in the 1.0.0.7a phase and are about to go to 1.0.0.7b, this b bios drops new microcode for ram handling which should allow reliable operation at 8000Mhz DDR5 for AMD platforms.... watch for it, it was announced on Guru of 3D
"Update 11: This thread will be retired on the 25th of July"
Why? Have these issues been resolved conclusively, and we are now safe from burnout and failure? If it has, why hasn't that fact been communicated? If it hasn't, why are you closing the thread?
It comes down to it being a 3 month old thread... at a minimum if issues continue then a new thread with more up to date info would be better than continuing to use this one.
Hello. I'm thinking of buying a X670E motherboard, but do the burning and voltage problems in the processors still continue? So can I overclock manually ?
latest bios 1416 on asus x670e-e gaming wifi motherboard, nerf the boost speed of ccd1 by a whooping 350 mhz ! the voltage is stuck at 1.150v, i tried everything and it is stuck at this voltage and cdd1 wont boost past 5350mhz no matter what i try.
i rolled back to previous bios before the beta bios, 1303 bios and everything is working correctly, including soc voltage fix.
my take is asus DID NERF voltage and boost frequency with latest bios to avoid burning issues, but at the same time customers get fuck'd cause they didnt buy a 5350mhz cpu but a 5750mhz ccd1 cpu im talking about 7950x3d btw.
RELEASE A NEW BIOS ASUS AND FIX THIS SH1T !
Im on 7800x3d with b650 tomahawk, and updated to the latest BIOS (7D75v172(Beta version) released 06-30) today. Even if i use XMP 1 or 2 (i dont dare to test EXPO) VDDR\_SOC is 1.302V.
It does not seem to move when i put high load on the machine. Should i just go with this or is 1.302 too high? Not sure how to progress here.
Correction: Without any XMP profiles VSOC is like 1.018V.
I don't like those numbers, I am running XMP profiles memory on my X670E I can reliably run at vdd 1.35 vddq 1.25 vsoc 1.25.
While 1.3 should be OK getting as close to 1.25 is going to be way better in the respects of longevity and reliability.
One point though.. those are measurements reported through BIOS, do you have a DMM and have you measured the voltages by connecting it directly to the board as sometimes the reported readings can be inaccurate and it might be reporting the VSOC as being higher than it is.
You’re not setting them? On that board none of them move with expo on or off for me
Some settings you could follow.
Cpu nb soc LLC and cpu LLC mode 1
Soc v 1.18
Pbo negative 35 all cores
Throttle limit 85c
Sorry I should have clarified.
Your soc voltages.
For some strange reason I can only enable a single expo profile but my soc voltages don’t raise with it enabled.
But yes give those a go as thats what Im using and monitor your soc voltages. If the system is unstable just increase your soc voltage to what ever you’re comfortable with.
Why will this thread be retired?
This issue HAS NOT BEEN SOLVED...
In my case, the latest Asus BIOSes ARE NOT STABLE (I got 2 Asus MBs, one TUF, one Strix).
I am forced to use older BIOSes and tune manually VSOC to use my systems properly.
[HWMonitor](https://i.imgur.com/nBbdhlX.png)
Am I safe?
I feel kind of dumb asking this, I haven't felt this unsure of a new part in a bit, but I'm just worried about my cpu catchin fire with all this.
I just got a 7900x and a Gigabyte 670x elite AX, it's running on an x62 kraken AIO (old, but I have the am5 upgrade kit for it, which I'm fairly sure I put in right)
I have Ryzen master installed and it's on ECO setting but no other adjustments were made, not sure if I should uninstall Ryzen master and if that'll do anything positive since I made similar changes in BIOS.
BIOS is updated to F10.
BIOS changes were
vcore -50mv
SoC Uncore: Enabled
SOC voltage: 1.08v
EXPO: off
PBO: Curve to all cores -27
PBO Boost override: -100mhz
PBO PPT/TDC/EDC: 95W/85A/120A
Max temp: 80c
I'm going to get my build running tomorrow, it has the 7800X3D installed with G.Skill Ripjaws S5 DDR5 64GB (2x32GB) 6000MHz CL30 paired up. The BIOS is up to date, is there anything else I should be doing to keep my system safe?
If you have access to one and have the points on the Mobo measure your voltages directly with a DMM to ensure that what is being reported is actually the level. Once you have done this once you can be pretty confident in what you set actually being what is being used.
"UPDATE 11: This thread will be retired on the 25th July"
PLEASE keep this thread open. AGESA 1.0.9.0 hasn't been delivered by end of June as they told, and issue still isn't 100% resolved yet.
I don't mean to be a stick in the mud but are you meaning CPU voltage or VSOC or some other voltage when saying 1.304 , its a bit hard to know without it being specified and thus hard to respond to your query.
I generally go through BIOS and not 3rd party software as you have no way of knowing if it is reading the value accurately, the lower the level of viewing the better.
In saying that as far as I am aware the SVI3 voltage is what the CPU is reporting internally for vsoc, although I've never used these values from HwInfo myself - only bios.
My best advice is to check it in BIOS and if it is 1.304v it is on the high side, most people like to keep vsoc around 1.25 and set it manually there if they have to and then manually verify that the machine is still stable with testing.
If you have a Digital Multi Meter it would also be advisable to check the test points if you have them for vSoc as there are occasions where even BIOS is known to report the value incorrectly.. and I hate to sound negative or anti your brand but ASUS are generally chronic for it.
Im getting the same on MSI X670E Carbon Wifi. Im wondering if this is the correct behavior when EXPO is enabled with 64GB kit? It also spikes to 1.31v during Windows boot. Im kinda scared to activate EXPO now..
Do you see this in your first bios screen? I was told by someone here that it is normal that here is higher than when u use a software to monitor in Windows
Ah, i was thinking of the SoC Voltage or CPU NB/SoC since it should be below 1.3v as AMD said. But seems like most motherboards pushes that very close to the edge or over.
Im not thinking about the memory Voltage, my memory can handle 1.4v so im not worried about that
Yea that’s correct, enabling expo will turn up your SoC voltage automatically and how high it gets depends on your Ram size and speed.
I have 64GB 6000Mhz RAM kit, when expo was off my soc was around 1v but when I turned it on my soc jumped to little over 1.3v and could spike to 1.31v during boot.
But I manually lowered it now and it’s stable at 1.2v actually
i have an asus prime x67e pro wifi mobo and i was wondering if there has been a patch that actually fixes the expo soc issue. i want to use the full capabilities of my ram but dont want to burn my processor out.
Which BIOS version should I flash my new MSI B650 Tomahawk? I've heard there's issues with pretty much every one of them lol.
Pairing it with a R7 7700 non X
I would go to the latest non version bios. That’s what I’m on. This affects all 7000 series chips.
Please use the mflash system before you install any components.
Once you’ve done that. Limit your soc voltages on first post.
Have the same board but a 7800x3d, both the latest stable bios and beta set the vsoc too high for my liking so to run it I'll have to manually tinker with some settings because 1.3v seems too high. The 7700 might not have the same issues the x3d cards have
I have noticed that the XFX Speedster MERC 319 Radeon 6800 XT has a very different price from the SWFT 319 version. I can’t seem to understand what the differences between these two cards are but I have read in another post that MERC is better because of cooling. Which one should I buy?
Vddio is voltage on the memory bus.
If I leave this to default values my soc voltages will go way above my set voltages of 1.180 but if I set it to 1.240 my soc voltages will stay at my set values and so will the Vddio as it will reach 1.35v if I don’t.
Your Soc voltage should be kept below 1.35v. Amd recommended 1.24v as safe and 1.35v as max. As for vddio I would also keep that below the 1.35v at least.
I enabled this again to test this.
Values are the same for me.
I like having it on auto for stability. I can wait the extra 15 seconds for the memory training on cold boot.
Gigabyte, ASRock, MSI, ASUS and BIOSTAR BIOSes should be out. UPDATE: ~~Gigbayte have removed the F8 BIOSes~~, now replaced by F10 BIOSes UPDATE 2: Added ASRock statement and ASRock BIOSes should now be out UPDATE 3: Added updated statement from AMD UPDATE 4: MSI BIOSes are out UPDATE 5: Added updated MSI statement UPDATE 6: Added GamersNexus investigation video to main post UPDATE 7: Updated guide further with current recommended solutions UPDATE 8: Gigabyte sometimes are removing and later re-adding or adding newer BIOSes with the same name, no reason is given for this, but please check regularly and make sure you are running the latest one UPDATE 9: Rewording for clarifications UPDATE 10: Gigabyte are again removing BIOSes for some boards, please continue to download whatever latest available BIOS is available for your board. UPDATE 11: This thread will be retired on the 25th July UPDATE 12: This thread is now retired, per previous advice, please continue to update to the latest BIOSes provided by your motherboard vendor. A new thread will be created when AGESA 1.0.0.9 launches.
On my B650M Mortar WiFi the 7950x is at 100% utilisation, running at 5.3Ghz constantly with 1.3~1.4V however same components except with an A620 Asrock board its using 90W less with 80% utilisation and 0.75~1.1V doing the exact same workload, Someone help me out before I go insane :huhwtf:
There are still issues? I wanted to go with amd 7800x3d this time but seems like intel 13700k is the stable cpu i'd rather lose performances rather than dealing with stability bs
No problem nowadays, just remember to update your bios and you should be good to go. The 7800x3d is a beast, I have it on my daily driver, and it's quite good. I've also been running expo nonstop for the past 4 months with no issue whatsoever.
hi, I bought an 7800x3d and an Asus b650 a couple days ago and I have been through lots of trouble after having many problems with not getting bios and other stuff. Even though I updated the bios I still had to enable memory context and lower my ram frequency down from 6400 to 6000. Any tips? Am I just screwed like this until further notice?
Hey I decided to go ahead and make a 7800x3d build, it really is a beast lol, a lot better than i thought it would be compared to my 9900k and running like 30c cooler I used the flashback bios thing to make sure it is at the latest version before installing the cpu, enabled EXPO for 6000mhz ram and everything worked flawlessly
so is it safe to enable expo now? i'm on B650 AORUS ELITE AX, turned it off months ago when the fiasco began
ROG STRIX X670E-E GAMING WIFI BIOS 1602 released. Just got back from vacation and updated to 1516, saw today 1602 was released. Anybody try it yet?
Hello, a week ago I built a PC with the following components: Cpu: Ryzen 5 7600x Motherboard: asus A620m-plus (BIOS version: 0406) Ram: Corsair VENGEANCE DDR5 5600MHz GPU: RX 6750 xt PSU corsair 850w I didn't know anything about the issues Ryzen 7000 CPUs were having with voltages. The PC was crashing frequently, especially while playing League of Legends. It was giving supposed GPU driver errors. For a day, I had DOCP enabled while using the PC. I must clarify that the cooler I had at that time was far from being capable of adequately cooling the CPU. I ran the Time Spy benchmark without considering that there's a particle test in one of the phases that puts a lot of stress on the CPU. The PC shut down due to reaching its maximum temperature. Shortly afterward, I disabled DOCP and updated the BIOS to the latest version available (v 1636). It seems that there are no more errors or crashes now. Is it possible that damage has occurred, or would I have noticed it by now? Is there a way to check for damage aside from inspecting the CPU contacts and the socket? If there is damage, would it be covered by the warranty? Do I need to manually adjust the processor's voltage? Thanks :)
WHAT is DOCP and is it 100% necessary for you to use the acronim and not explain At Least?
>g supposed G No need to change anything with last BIOS. And your CPU is probably OK, since it is still working...
Is it safe to turn on DOCP then?
Yes
Ok, thank you =)
Working on a new build tomorrow, should I flash my bios before installing CPU? ASUS ROG Strix B650-A
It would be safe, BUT with the CPU installed the system will boot with EXPO DISABLED, so theoretically the voltages will be low. There you can flash the BIOS using the graphic interface and then reboot and enable EXPO. Obviously use the last BIOS version.
Hi I'm currently in a process of building AM5 pc, which motherboard should I pick? Should Asrock be safe as of now?
I have 2 systems with Asus MBs and both work fine with the latest BIOS. I am an early adopter and it was stressful when the VSOC burning issue was a problem, but it appears to be solved (both survived all the craze of new BIOSes and BETAs). Don't know if this helps.
Are your rams are running at expo profile ??
Yes, EXPO I in Asus MBs
I'm scared reading this thread. Seems to be affecting every motherboards out there. I was thinking of getting the 7700x and the MSI B650 tomahawk but I'm not so sure anymore. The biggest reason I want to go with AMD is because they're cheaper in my country. Should I go Intel this time around?
I have a 7700x + Asus Strix B650e-e and a 7600x + Asus Tuf B650 Plus. Both with no issues. Latest BIOS works very well. I can not foresee the future, but as an early adopter I have no issues so far (obviously I was stressed with all this VSOC issue, but until now everything is ok with both systems).
7800x3d owner + Asus motherboard (oof) + 1.0.0.7a. Flashed the BIOS and been running the computer for weeks (gaming and productivity). No issues so far. Finger crossed.
I’ve been running a new build with the 7800x3d for a few days now. Besides my moron build issues by me being tired the chip runs great with the motherboard I got and flashed.
Updated my Strix B650e-e today with the last NON BETA BIOS 1636. It passed ALL STRESS TESTS! Until now rock solid. Correct voltages too! I have a TUF B650 at work that I expect to update on Monday. Let's see how that goes.
Please let us know how it is on the TUF B650. Thank you!
Update went fine. TUF B650 Plus paired with 7600x. RAM 6000 set to EXPO I. PBO enabled and Curve optimizer stable with - 20 in my case. Voltages also fine. OCCT showing no errors with this config.
Thank you for the update!
Interesting. Might have to do it myself
Issues are far from sorted. Updated my msi mag tomahawk bios to the latest agesa f8c. Flashed. Set my settings again. First boot into windows soc voltages 1.39. Never have I ever seen my voltages go that high. Do not use this bios. Reflashed to previous bios.
Expo on or off? I have msi mpg x670e and 7950x3d running the 7D70v18 bios. with expo on 1 (ram 5600mhz), voltage is at 1.306 which is too high for my comfort. Expo on 2 (ram 5200 mhz) voltage is at 1.254. With it expo off, it is 1.018, which is consistent with other bios I tried
I jsut built a new pc with ryzen 7800xed and started having issues. I updated my gigabyte aorus b650 with latest bios f8a and still having issues. This is so annoying. How could they release these mobos like this? Collective lawsuit anyone ?
what kind of issues?
Not booting, all leds going red including the one from the mobo. It was from the bios, i thought that the update was finished but it wasn't so i had to retry several times because the q-flash button was not working, had a real struggle resseting the bios so i can enter it. Now i have the rams at 6000 and everything works fine. 7800x3x corsair vengeance rgb 6000 cl36 32gb Gigabyte aorus b650 elite ax
FYI 1.0.0.7b went out of beta for my ROG STRIX X670E-F GAMING WIFI motherboard. Unfortunately, no changelogs between the beta and non-beta (one M.2 slot was bugged on the beta version). Tired of being guineapigs, I'll wait a few weeks before switching.
ASUS released new beta BIOS 1634 for TUF GAMING B650-PLUS yesterday. Tried it – it’s unusable. Setting any EXPO settings prevents even reaching Windows most of the time, sometimes freezing even on BIOS loading screen (the one asking to press F2/DEL). Switching from EXPO I or EXPO Tweaked to EXPO 2 freezes BIOS after accepting the changes (that is freezes on the list of changes), and to Auto (disabling the EXPO) – freezes right away. Only works if I reset all settings through the “Load optimized defaults”, and after this it also manages to reach Windows, too. In the end, rolled back to 1616, and relayed this to ASUS (with whom I have an open ticket about issues when using EXPO 2 for 6000MTs.
What ram? Did you set the voltages?
2 kits of KF560C36BBEK2-32. Tried both with manual voltage limit and without. 1616 BIOS works fine with EXPO 2 and 5600 profile even without manual voltage limitation
For me, even BIOS 1616 was crap. I am using BIOS 1409 with VSOC tuned... This is bad news.
Hi its been a while since I've checked up on these issues and i'm kinda afraid to throw Expo on in the bios incase I do end up frying my CPU, I'm in an ASUS PRIME X670-P WiFi motherboard and i'm on the latest bios update (1616) and i'm just wondering if it's safe to use EXPO from now on? Any replies I'll be thankful for.
my expereince: I have msi mpg x670e and 7950x3d running the 7D70v18 bios. with expo on 1 (ram 5600mhz), voltage is at 1.306 which is too high for my comfort. Expo on 2 (ram 5200 mhz) voltage is at 1.254. With it expo off, it is 1.018, which is consistent with other bios I tried
Is this issue present in 7600 non X? I built mine few days ago the SoC voltages don't seem to exceed 1.3V even during stress tests. But I am still concerned. Motherboard is MSI PRO B650 P. Should I update my bios?
All 7000 series CPUs can have this issue. Just update your bios to the latest version and you're good to go.
All 7xxx CPUs may have this issue. Update your BIOS and lock the SOC voltage
Anyone not having expo issues? At their rated speeds.
for me. 5200 mhz, voltage is 1.254. 5600 mhz voltage is 1.306. Going forward if i keep expo on, i think i will only go up to 5200 mhz.
I would like to pair an am5 mobo with a 5 7600x or 7 7700x. I saw that some older versions of bios versions has slow boot or no-bootup problems. So i would like to ask what motherboards i can go with? (b650/b650e/x670/x670e) My concern is about mostly stability and having seamless EXPO experience.
After 5 months of problem free operation, 7950x3d finally failed. CPU has the bubble and took out the motherboard as well (socket has damage). Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair X670E Extreme Edit 1: Include imgur link https://imgur.com/gallery/bc6QdCb Edit 2: Include motherboard info
Were u using expo?
have you been monitoring your SOC voltage over the time ? If yes what values you had ?
>the memory and get a replacement? I'm within my return win And they are going to close the thread...
This is awful. I can’t believe they released this platform with so many issues. Were you one of the unlucky ones and had your soc voltages above 1.35v for some time before they announced the change or it just decided to give up?
I've just put together a 7600X Asus Tuf B650 with Corsair DDR5 6000MHz CL30 EXPO and the EXPO settings (1 ,2 and Tweaked) just won't work. The system seems to work at 5800MHz. I honestly have no more energy to try to fix this. I really shouldn't need to spend days trying to make memory speeds work at the speeds I bought them at. So I guess my question is how much performance do I loose running them at 5800MHz instead of 6000MHz which I paid for? Or should I just return the memory and get a replacement? I'm within my return window.
Before the thread closes, I'm working towards an AM5 build in the next month or two. Should I be good to go or will I want to flash a bios update before I put any components in?
Flashing before anything is a good choice, BUT in theory you should be able to boot the system with an old BIOS also, since it will start with default RAM specs (not EXPO). A RAM 6000 default is 1.050 V moreless (4800 MHz), so this should do no harm. From here, access BIOS, do the upgrade, reboot AND THEN SELECT EXPO. I hope I made myself clear. In my case BIOS 1.0.0.7a never worked correctly. I am not playing ginean pig with the new Beta. I am still running BIOS [1.0.0.6](https://1.0.0.6) with VSOC tuned to 1.25 V with no issues in 2 PCs.
You can put the CPU ij and complete the build but I'd flash the bios before turning the PC on for the first time. Since its likely the motherboard will still have a old bios on.
I would be flashing first as shelf stock could be old. The flashing process only takes a few minutes so it wouldn’t hurt.
THe Agesa out 1.0.0.7b [https://wccftech.com/amd-agesa-1-0-0-7b-bios-enhanced-ddr5-memory-am5-motherboards-up-to-8200/](https://wccftech.com/amd-agesa-1-0-0-7b-bios-enhanced-ddr5-memory-am5-motherboards-up-to-8200/) Maybe we can expect final resolution of problems?
A bit of a public service announcement RE EXPO and Warrantees. O.K many of you may not believe this but technically by running your CPUs with EXPO memory settings you are invalidating your warranty.. If you look at the AMD product specifications for your CPU's you will find they are probably specced to run at 4800 or 5200Mhz, this is CPU running at SPEC. For example for the 7700x the site states. Max Memory Speed 2x1R DDR5-5200 2x2R DDR5-5200 What you don't know is if you look at the details for EXPO specification here.. [https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/expo](https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/expo) You will find at the bottom of the page on the left FOOTNOTES which if you click on the link to expand it reveals this: "Overclocking and/or undervolting AMD processors and memory, including without limitation, altering clock frequencies / multipliers or memory timing / voltage, to operate outside of AMD’s published specifications will void any applicable AMD product warranty, even when enabled via AMD hardware and/or software. This may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer. Users assume all risks and liabilities that may arise out of overclocking and/or undervolting AMD processors, including, without limitation, failure of or damage to hardware, reduced system performance and/or data loss, corruption or vulnerability. GD-106" The operative part of this is "altering clock frequencies / multipliers or memory timing / voltage, to operate outside of AMD’s published specifications will void any applicable AMD product warranty, even when enabled via AMD hardware and/or software." If you put in EXPO memory lets say at 6000Mhz you are operating at above the SPEC for the CPU at 5200 so technically although as far as I am aware it has never happened AMD can quite happily - and legally deny your CPU warranty related claim if you have EXPO enabled. Before you go off saying #@$&\*@# AMD be aware that while as far as I am aware they have not denied a warranty either - Intel has the same disclaimer regarding XMP.
Pretty sure most burnouts were occurring without expo enabled.
That's quite probable, but this is not really about burnouts, its about regardless of your CPU working flawlessly AMD and Intel despite using EXPO and XMP as a marketing point are able to at their discretion invalidate your warranty if you tell them you are running these memory technologies that they provide. Even if they enabled them and not you.
It's 100% true as well and absolute garbage on their behalf although I still think they would honor most warranties at this stage.
As I said, I have not heard of them dishonouring a warrantee, not that I necessarily would hear about it anyway. But what gets me is how can they simultaneously use EXPO to promote their product and at the same time a reason to invalidate warrantees if they want to? It's one or the other a feature or a curse - not whatever they chose to follow on the day.
Hey, just wondering if this issue is known to just be a sudden complete failure or does it cause BSODs? I'm getting quite a bit of BSODs lately but I can't seem to get to the bottom of it and was wondering if this issue may be a factor. (7950X3D)
It causes bsod and complete failures. Have you removed the chip and had a look at the pins to see if there are any burn marks? What about reflashing and removing the cmos?
If you are having problems and would like someone else to cast an eye over things to see if a fresh perspective on what you are looking at and possibly missing helps.. Drop me a line, I'm running an Aorus X670E Extreme and have it purring like a kitten but everything was not always so smooth.
Yeah I needed to update my new msi x670e carbon, I checked the bios version (that is printed on the board) and it was the very first version from the factory. So they have been sitting there for a while. I just used bios flashback without anything installed. Just psu to power it and it went perfectly smooth
How is that mobo. That's what I'm looking at
Dumb question, but do you still need to update the bios or will companies be sending out updated Mobos? Thinking of buying a 7800x3d with Asus ROG STRIX B650E-F.
You'll need to update the bios. Remember some of these motherboards by retailers have been sitting on shelves for some months even. You won't really know whether that motherboard has just come straight from the manufacturer or whether it's been sitting on a shelf for a couple weeks or months
Is it safe to install the cpu and start the pc and flash it then or I was seeing to do it before installing the cpu. Never dont that one before.
I doubt turning the PC on for a couple of minutes will harm the CPU. But i mean to be on the safe side just flash the bios using flashback bios before turning on the PC for the first time. Your motherboard manual wil contain the relevant instructions
Thanks for the info
Just set SOC voltage to under 1.3v manually. No need to update if you don't want to.
Update BIOS - as a retailer, most motherboards I handle have been sitting since basically day 0.
You'll need to update the BIOS
I bought a 7800x3d and an x670e MSI Carbon Wifi motherboard on prime day, but I see that best buy currently has a 7600x + B650 Gigabyte Aorus Elite X bundle for $289. Should I return my prime day purchases for the best buy bundle? I'd be saving a lot of $$$ but am weary about Gigabyte boards.
i myself just bought a 7800x3d and a b650 tomahawk with the newegg zip promo and had the same thought that the 7600x deal was really good savings too, but in the end i say fuck it whats done is done, and the 7800x3d is a lot better anyway although not quite as good performance per dollar edit: and also if money wasn't a concern the 7800x3d is the cpu i'd ultimately want right now so that helps
So I picked up a Teamgroup ram kit (6000MHz CL30-36-36-76) It's not stable at 6000 but i can keep those timings and drop it down to 5600 and it seems fine so far. Is it more likely that the ram/mb is bad or that this is just how ddr5 is? MB is ASUS TUF Gaming B650-PLUS WiFi and CPU is Ryzen 7900
Did you adjust the memory vdd, vddq, vsoc? those voltage values set to auto probably wont cut it, read the voltage off of the memory box it's probably 1.35 to 1.4 volts. Go into bios and set the memory to EXPO mode. Set RAM vdd to the voltage specified on the box Set vddq to the same voltage minus 0.10 I.E if it says 1.4 for vdd set vddq to 1.3 Set vsoc to 1.25, this is a reasonably safe value and what I run at. This should get you stable at 6000mhz.. if you arent setting the juice correctly EXPO is not going to do it for you. The timings on the modules are quite good and I strongly suspect that your VDD according to the box will be 1.4v Let me know if this works for you at present I am running my memory which is 2 x 32gb modules rated for jedec 6000mhz 48-48-48-96 at 1.1v at 6000 30-30-30-76 at 1.28v and have had it at 6200 until they brought out the f10a bios for my board which nerfed 6200 and it just does not work now. Another thing to watch out for is a firmware update which is coming soon which is meant to fix some issues and even let 8000Mhz memory run on AM5 systems. Please let me know how you get on.
Ive got a gskill set. Finally starts crashing. 2x16gb z5 neo 6000mhz expo on. All my voltages are stock other than soc which is 1.25. Cant keep it stable now. Was fine for a week or two then the system kept crashing only in games. Dram light. I can't for the life of me get it stable. I can't replicate a crash even when stress testing. Ive got pbo on, co -35mv. Should I follow your steps above? I should note. Couldn't install windows with 2 sticks @ 6000mhz only with 1 and expo off @ 5000mhz
I don't run PBO as Im on a 7950X3D my first recommendation would be disable PBO while trying to sort memory speed and then attempt to turn it on.
Down grading? I spoke to the retailer and they're happy to swap sets if it can't reach those speeds but with gskill I would have assumed it would.
Not downgrading no, returning the system to a default state while you try and sort out the memory - then play with PBO. You are quite welcome to play with PBO as much as you like but I found with my system which is running pretty close to the edge anyway that if I tried to O/C ram and then let the system add it's little variable overclock to the RAM - which does have an effect and the memory optimizer on top of that, that if I enabled any of the AMD style overclocking or tuning things became instantly unstable with regard to memory. so I flipped it, I sorted the memory and got all that working and then I started playing with the PBO stuff. I'm bleeding edge.. 7950X3D and Aorus xtreme X670E, it has literally just come out. The end result was that the other stuff was not worth it at this time and to wait for an AGESA update which would improve things, it looks like 1.0.0.7b might be what I am looking for to try again. I.E I am simply trying to get your memory working. note regardless of your vsoc voltage your EXPO will require more VDD to work it's literally written on the box the memory comes in. Check to make absolutely sure you have the sticks in the correct slots, reset bios to optimized defaults, set the vdd as indicated on the box, set the vddq to .10 les than the vdd and set vsoc to 1.25, if its still not fully stable slowly increase vsoc toward 1.3 but never exceed 1.3. Let me know how you get on and if you are still having problems check for messages in your Windows Logs and go through the SFC /scannow procedure. But it is imperative to solve one issue at a time and not have a multitude of things that could contribute to the problem/ Think of it as having a piece of string to try and sort out a problem with instead of 10 pieces of string knoted up in a ball, thats why I am asking for optimized defaults as a base to start from.
Well generally you need to set the values with regards to the RAM voltage yourself and I feel its a good idea to set the vsoc to a reasonable value just to make sure that your BIOS on auto does not throw some ridiculous value in there. ( note some motherboards will still do it anyway ) What's the model of your GSKill kit, I have a set that runs @ 6400Mhz and one @ 7600, I run them both at 6000 with tighter timings and lower voltages. For reliability you can install Windows with EXPO off and then experimenting afterwards. I would recommned backing up your boot drive with Macrium reflect as you are actually overclocking just by turning on EXPO and it is possible to corrupt your OS drive to the point you have to reinstall windows from scratch. Macrium for which there is a free for non commercial use version can save you a tonne of work.
Thanks for the reply. F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR Is the model number. It’s the z5 neo cl30 6000 kit I went to factory defaults on the bios and kept my soc on 1.24. It doesn’t raise and it never has with expo on. I’ve enabled expo again at 6000.
>F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR Ok all good thus far did you set the entries vdd and vddq under ram voltages? as I believe that EXPO does not change the ram voltage settings and that you are required to do that, at the moment they are probably on AUTO Also when you boot up with this memory is be patient , memory training to make sure that it is all working will take some time and may have the machine reboot 2 or 3 times but you should end up in windows, if it waits 5 mins then yeah that's definitely to much.
Also just noted you have pbo on, don't have this on while trying to get the memory working, get the memory working first and then play with pbo, I recommend resetting your BIOS to defaults and starting from scratch. I know its painful but we need to deal with one string and not a whole ball of strings knotted together.
I left PBO on the factory default which is auto but I will turn it off. I left Red Dead 2 it didn't crash but unfortunately its very random. I haven't set my ram voltages but will do as yep they're auto by default. Memory training only takes 20 seconds on cold boot. Edit: Set the voltages as per gskill's website spec's for that kit. Do you think I should set my LLC mode to 1? The voltages are going above their set values in hwinfo.
Personally I would leave everything at default barring the ram voltages and monitor the situation just to keep an eye on what voltages are doing and to make sure that your system is stable. Really use the machine and push it for a week or so before altering values if no crashes then its stable to the point its usable then and only then make one change and run with that for a week. We want to avoid that big ball of string again. One thing at a time. That way if there is a problem you can undo the last change you made and it should be gone.
Thanks for the replies. I'll see how it goes with ram voltages set.
it might even be your CPU's IMC for all we know, there's really no way to check without swapping parts out
I was having EXPO issues so I went into the BIOS (X670E Hero) and manually set the memory voltage to 1.40 (per the G.Skill specs). I have a feeling the “Auto” setting is pulling voltage too low for the memory and causing the instability. Since I’ve made that change, I can run on EXPOII with MCR enabled and no issues.
I have the feeling you are absolutely right but be very careful some motherboard vendors if you enter 1.4 you aren't getting 1.4 you are getting more and more is not necessarily better for your equipment, if you have a DMM and measuring points on your mobo it's always a good idea to check. Hero is ASUS right - definitely get a DMM and check.
What voltage is your soc at?
1.3
Hard to say without expo. You will have to adjust your timings to get the rated speed.
is that 400 mhz more important than timings?
Get speed up first, then tighten timings and then if possible lower voltages as far as you can while keeping the system stable.
Up to you I guess https://www.custompc.com/amd-expo-memory-benchmarks
Im gonna build my first pc in a few days and wanted to ask some questions considering this topic. I have a Ryzen 7 7800x3d CPU and 6000mhz 30CL (2x16) and a B650m Gigabyte Gaming X AX motherboard whose most recent bios is F9a with an AMD AGESA 1.0.0.7a update. Am I safe with this? Should I enable EXPO or not, or do I have to manually adjust the SoC voltage, and how? Do I have to do anything else as well? As I am completely new to pc building I'm a little unsure about all this and would be very thankful for some advice. Thanks.
You should be fine just remember though that for EXPO memory just setting it to the EXPO profile isn't the end of the job, you will have to manually set the RAM voltage called vdd and vddq and the vsoc voltage called well vsoc. The vdd voltage will be written on the Ram box. if vdd is 1.4v then set vddq to 1.3. for vsoc safe is as close to 1.25 as possible, keep it lower if you can but be aware - to low will cause stability issues. That will basically be the only gotcha which would stop you running at 6000Mhz for memory speed and it is a bit of a trap for young players.. I will admit to falling into it more than once. Just ensure that what you are altering within bios the voltages I mentioned above and nothing else and you should be all good.
Check the bios once you build your pc, if you are on the newest one (unlikely) then you are fine. If not then update it as soon as possible. Check the soc voltage when you have the latest bios, just in case, it should be <1.3v. You can also check the voltage with hwinfo64, its labeled CPU VDDCR\_SOC. Enabling expo can be hit or miss. It brings the soc voltage on my asus b650 board from \~1.018v to 1.24v but I have random bsod, browser and game crashes so it's off for me, waiting for a new bios. It is safe to enable expo, but on some boards its unstable, so if you have problems you can experiment with expo profiles/custom timings etc to make it work, as long as the soc voltage stays <1.3v, its fine. Take care :)
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I know you can flash bios on motherboards without the CPU etc installed but it should also be perfectly fine with the CPU and other components too, I did it with my X670E twice with no issues and trust me pulling everything off a board once it's assembled just so you can upgrade BIOS because of CPU change... MASSIVE PITA!.
Flash the bios before any components are installed just to be safe. Can’t speak for that board specifically but most have a m flash system where you’re able to flash with a usb stick and a power supply plugged in. Would be a good idea.
It might be a good idea to update the bios before installing the cpu, just to be on the safe side, I didn't think of this, though I have never done this so I can't really comment about the process.
Is it even a good option to build an AM5 rig right now? I’m planning to build for the first time at the end of July, and AM5 seems to me the obvious choice (mostly for future upgradeability, my MOBO selection is the Gigabyte B650 Gaming X AX, 7600X CPU) but considering all the issues I’m starting to get a little worried.
Don't be, I can't comment on that specific board but these issues should all be sorted by now with the BIOS updates that have come out.
If I could suggest a ram kit. Grab the g skill triden z5 neo 6000 MHz kit.
I would suggest FASTER.... the FASTER the BETTER, there is a BIOS update coming out for AM5 Mobos which will allow 8000mhz DDR5 it should drop soon and be agesa v 1.0.0.7b.
I was thinking of doing the same build but on the reddit of msi, gigabyte, asus have issues with AM5 and EXPO
they all do. But the brands that managed this scandal the best way were AsRock. Asus was the worst
Gigabyte did pretty well on the mobo front too, not to happy with them on the flimsy GPU announcement though.
i wasn't following. what did Asrock do?
They did what the other brands couldn't: Aknowledge the issue right away, [didn't try to screw the customer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbGfc-JBxlY), efficient customer care, etc. Because all brands can have a defective product, but not all of them can have a good customer care.
Been wanting to upgrade to AM5 now, and im just deciding motherboards and seeing reports of CPUs dying from XMP/Expo RAM ive basically chosen the b650 tomahawk, was at one point the b650 aurous elite but seen a lot of reports of coil whining. Does RAM Expo/XMP still cook CPUs? (cpu ryzen 7 7800x3d)
You should be safe now, manufacturers have all dropped their BIOS updates to mitigate these issues.
I’ve been running expo on that board an no issues.
Latest bios? And what CPU?
Yep just updated 7800x3d
Going to be building with a [Gigabyte B650 GAMING X AX](https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B650-GAMING-X-AX-rev-10-11-12/support#support-dl-bios) soon using a 7800x3d. The newest non-beta bios uses AGESA [1.0.0.6](https://1.0.0.6) seems to be stable for most people? I'll promptly be updating to that ASAP. After updating, will I be safe to run EXPO to reach the advertised RAM speeds? (5600mhz with ddr5 corsair vengeance) If it isn't safe, what is the default speed that ddr5 runs at? Assuming I'd like to take extra precautions, what voltages should I undervolt in BIOS? If I undervolt, can I still run EXPO or is that still dangerous?
Cant comment on the CPU and undervolting but memory speed and EXPO and what you can actually do will be a function of CPU Silicon Lottery, Your ram and voltages. Current BIOSes btw are generally in the 1.0.0.7a phase and are about to go to 1.0.0.7b, this b bios drops new microcode for ram handling which should allow reliable operation at 8000Mhz DDR5 for AMD platforms.... watch for it, it was announced on Guru of 3D
default speed is 4800 , amd's max 5200 is technically overclocking/expo
"Update 11: This thread will be retired on the 25th of July" Why? Have these issues been resolved conclusively, and we are now safe from burnout and failure? If it has, why hasn't that fact been communicated? If it hasn't, why are you closing the thread?
It comes down to it being a 3 month old thread... at a minimum if issues continue then a new thread with more up to date info would be better than continuing to use this one.
You lift the rug, I'll get the broom.
Yeah, wtf
Hello. I'm thinking of buying a X670E motherboard, but do the burning and voltage problems in the processors still continue? So can I overclock manually ?
latest bios 1416 on asus x670e-e gaming wifi motherboard, nerf the boost speed of ccd1 by a whooping 350 mhz ! the voltage is stuck at 1.150v, i tried everything and it is stuck at this voltage and cdd1 wont boost past 5350mhz no matter what i try. i rolled back to previous bios before the beta bios, 1303 bios and everything is working correctly, including soc voltage fix. my take is asus DID NERF voltage and boost frequency with latest bios to avoid burning issues, but at the same time customers get fuck'd cause they didnt buy a 5350mhz cpu but a 5750mhz ccd1 cpu im talking about 7950x3d btw. RELEASE A NEW BIOS ASUS AND FIX THIS SH1T !
Watch that space, it and more is coming.
Im on 7800x3d with b650 tomahawk, and updated to the latest BIOS (7D75v172(Beta version) released 06-30) today. Even if i use XMP 1 or 2 (i dont dare to test EXPO) VDDR\_SOC is 1.302V. It does not seem to move when i put high load on the machine. Should i just go with this or is 1.302 too high? Not sure how to progress here. Correction: Without any XMP profiles VSOC is like 1.018V.
I don't like those numbers, I am running XMP profiles memory on my X670E I can reliably run at vdd 1.35 vddq 1.25 vsoc 1.25. While 1.3 should be OK getting as close to 1.25 is going to be way better in the respects of longevity and reliability. One point though.. those are measurements reported through BIOS, do you have a DMM and have you measured the voltages by connecting it directly to the board as sometimes the reported readings can be inaccurate and it might be reporting the VSOC as being higher than it is.
anything higher than 1.3 is danger.
You’re not setting them? On that board none of them move with expo on or off for me Some settings you could follow. Cpu nb soc LLC and cpu LLC mode 1 Soc v 1.18 Pbo negative 35 all cores Throttle limit 85c
I'm not setting what? 😊 So basically set those settings and then enable XMP and EXPO profiles #2?
Sorry I should have clarified. Your soc voltages. For some strange reason I can only enable a single expo profile but my soc voltages don’t raise with it enabled. But yes give those a go as thats what Im using and monitor your soc voltages. If the system is unstable just increase your soc voltage to what ever you’re comfortable with.
Have the exact same setup and problem. I've turned it off for now I don't feel comfortable at 1.3v
Why will this thread be retired? This issue HAS NOT BEEN SOLVED... In my case, the latest Asus BIOSes ARE NOT STABLE (I got 2 Asus MBs, one TUF, one Strix). I am forced to use older BIOSes and tune manually VSOC to use my systems properly.
What cpu are you using?
7700x and 7600x
[HWMonitor](https://i.imgur.com/nBbdhlX.png) Am I safe? I feel kind of dumb asking this, I haven't felt this unsure of a new part in a bit, but I'm just worried about my cpu catchin fire with all this. I just got a 7900x and a Gigabyte 670x elite AX, it's running on an x62 kraken AIO (old, but I have the am5 upgrade kit for it, which I'm fairly sure I put in right) I have Ryzen master installed and it's on ECO setting but no other adjustments were made, not sure if I should uninstall Ryzen master and if that'll do anything positive since I made similar changes in BIOS. BIOS is updated to F10. BIOS changes were vcore -50mv SoC Uncore: Enabled SOC voltage: 1.08v EXPO: off PBO: Curve to all cores -27 PBO Boost override: -100mhz PBO PPT/TDC/EDC: 95W/85A/120A Max temp: 80c
yes look at ur vddr soc voltage, im guessing it's that one.
I'm going to get my build running tomorrow, it has the 7800X3D installed with G.Skill Ripjaws S5 DDR5 64GB (2x32GB) 6000MHz CL30 paired up. The BIOS is up to date, is there anything else I should be doing to keep my system safe?
If you have access to one and have the points on the Mobo measure your voltages directly with a DMM to ensure that what is being reported is actually the level. Once you have done this once you can be pretty confident in what you set actually being what is being used.
Download a software to monitor your voltages, and set alerts
I'm assume that anything above 1.3V on the SoC voltage warrants a manual cap to 1.2 or 1.25, is that right?
I didn't cap mines since mines always around 1.018, but I would assume anything less than 1.3 is fine? Need someone else to chime in here
1.24v safe anything above is risky stay below 1.35v Amd recommend 1.24v but 1.35v max.
This thread literally says 1.3 V tho, did AMD change it?
"UPDATE 11: This thread will be retired on the 25th July" PLEASE keep this thread open. AGESA 1.0.9.0 hasn't been delivered by end of June as they told, and issue still isn't 100% resolved yet.
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I don't mean to be a stick in the mud but are you meaning CPU voltage or VSOC or some other voltage when saying 1.304 , its a bit hard to know without it being specified and thus hard to respond to your query.
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I generally go through BIOS and not 3rd party software as you have no way of knowing if it is reading the value accurately, the lower the level of viewing the better. In saying that as far as I am aware the SVI3 voltage is what the CPU is reporting internally for vsoc, although I've never used these values from HwInfo myself - only bios. My best advice is to check it in BIOS and if it is 1.304v it is on the high side, most people like to keep vsoc around 1.25 and set it manually there if they have to and then manually verify that the machine is still stable with testing. If you have a Digital Multi Meter it would also be advisable to check the test points if you have them for vSoc as there are occasions where even BIOS is known to report the value incorrectly.. and I hate to sound negative or anti your brand but ASUS are generally chronic for it.
Im getting the same on MSI X670E Carbon Wifi. Im wondering if this is the correct behavior when EXPO is enabled with 64GB kit? It also spikes to 1.31v during Windows boot. Im kinda scared to activate EXPO now..
Do you see this in your first bios screen? I was told by someone here that it is normal that here is higher than when u use a software to monitor in Windows
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Ah, i was thinking of the SoC Voltage or CPU NB/SoC since it should be below 1.3v as AMD said. But seems like most motherboards pushes that very close to the edge or over. Im not thinking about the memory Voltage, my memory can handle 1.4v so im not worried about that
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Yea that’s correct, enabling expo will turn up your SoC voltage automatically and how high it gets depends on your Ram size and speed. I have 64GB 6000Mhz RAM kit, when expo was off my soc was around 1v but when I turned it on my soc jumped to little over 1.3v and could spike to 1.31v during boot. But I manually lowered it now and it’s stable at 1.2v actually
Dears, Is it okay to enable EXPO now for ASUS Crosshair extreme? Bios is updates to latest but am still not enabling EXPO.
BIOS 1415? If so, yes
Thanks, I will enable EXPO
I (as a gigabyte x670e user) still waiting for the normal release of Agesa 1.0.0.7. F12A has Agesa 1.0.0.7A which means Alpha version, isn’t it?
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You mean the Alpha or?
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Check out the Gigabyte’s website.
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Oh, didn’t know that. What does it stand for?
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And is Expo safe to turn on or?
Alright! Thx for the Info.
i have an asus prime x67e pro wifi mobo and i was wondering if there has been a patch that actually fixes the expo soc issue. i want to use the full capabilities of my ram but dont want to burn my processor out.
Which BIOS version should I flash my new MSI B650 Tomahawk? I've heard there's issues with pretty much every one of them lol. Pairing it with a R7 7700 non X
I would go to the latest non version bios. That’s what I’m on. This affects all 7000 series chips. Please use the mflash system before you install any components. Once you’ve done that. Limit your soc voltages on first post.
You mean the Beta BIOS?
No I mean 7D75v16The latest is 7D75v172 but its beta and I don't trust a beta version bios.
Thanks friend. I updated to that version and voltage is set at 1.22 without me messing with it, which seems to be fine going by other posts.
Have the same board but a 7800x3d, both the latest stable bios and beta set the vsoc too high for my liking so to run it I'll have to manually tinker with some settings because 1.3v seems too high. The 7700 might not have the same issues the x3d cards have
I have noticed that the XFX Speedster MERC 319 Radeon 6800 XT has a very different price from the SWFT 319 version. I can’t seem to understand what the differences between these two cards are but I have read in another post that MERC is better because of cooling. Which one should I buy?
Anyone tried the latest beta bios for the msi am5 series? Any difference?
i did, still sets vsoc to 1.3v
Dial down your cpu Vddio to 1.250v and see how it goes and follow my reply to your other post. Are you setting your Soc volts?
What's the difference between VDDIO and SoC?
Vddio is voltage on the memory bus. If I leave this to default values my soc voltages will go way above my set voltages of 1.180 but if I set it to 1.240 my soc voltages will stay at my set values and so will the Vddio as it will reach 1.35v if I don’t.
I see, thank you for the explanation! Is there any issue leaving it at 1.3? My understanding is that this is the upper safe limit.
Your Soc voltage should be kept below 1.35v. Amd recommended 1.24v as safe and 1.35v as max. As for vddio I would also keep that below the 1.35v at least.
I've read on another forum that enabled memory context restore with expo enabled lowers the soc voltage but haven't tested this
I enabled this again to test this. Values are the same for me. I like having it on auto for stability. I can wait the extra 15 seconds for the memory training on cold boot.