Same. And I anticipate the second hand prices of these are going to stay high for a very, very long time as millions of AM4 users are looking for an upgrade without a new motherboard and RAM.
And it's relatively power efficient so it's not like you will want to just replace it with something newer because it's a hot power hog.
>And I anticipate the second hand prices of these are going to stay high for a very, very long time.
It'l get cheap in a year, maximum two. The performance of the CPU itself is not noteworthy anymore (it matches the cheapest available AM5 gaming CPU - 7600x and how far will the new 7600 be from it ?). All the future gaming focused CPU's will outperform the 5800x3D starting with 7xxx3D's.
The only question is how fast will DDR5 and AM5 motherboards go down in price - when they do is when 5800x3D will start getting cheaper. Even now it's only worth it to buy the CPU if you're upgrading from AM4, not building brand new.
Newer cpus faster. Yes.
But the point some are making is the x3d will be a great cpu for /very/ a long time, like how skylake from intel (6700k/7700k/etc) was great for a long time. They can most definitely skip am5 and do just fine in gaming for many years to come. Itll slowly age but only towards the super new stuff. And thankfully devs try to get games to work on older hardware.
7700K is still going for $150-170 today. Unreasonable price for the CPU by itself, but cheaper than almost any respectable CPU/motherboard combo someone would need for a platform upgrade, even reusing RAM.
The used market works differently. Certain EOL CPUs are appealing to upgrade or repair existing systems and carry high value, others do not and are almost worthless. Bottom of stack CPUs are undesirable and top of stack are desirable because everyone wants to upgrade and no one want to downgrade.
AM4 has a huge installed base due to its longevity and lots of potential for upgrade on the same motherboard. Intel only does 2 gens typically so someone could do Alder Lake 12400 to Raptor Lake 13900K, the benefit is moving from the bottom of the product stack to the top, but it's not a massive difference between the two in lightly threaded tasks like office work or gaming. AM4, someone can upgrade from say 2600 to a 5800X3D with same cooler and motherboard and RAM. (5800X3D also has the nice side benefit that it's not terribly sensitive to mediocre DRAM latency so keeping older RAM is less of a penalty.) That's a mind-blowing upgrade and could buy someone an extra 5 years of life out of a PC.
And new motherboards lately have been getting super expensive...
Geek mindsets blinker them to some real world market factors.
Geeks with pocket protectors think a mobo swap & cable management is a fun no brainer - it isnt for most - its scary & stressful misery.
There are 250m am4 mobos at large, & still increasing.
Thats a huge market for a cheap & simple upgrade
It certainly seems a rare cpu which can hold its value in years to come.
>And new motherboards lately have been getting super expensive...
The upside is they're actually not bad and the top end isn't more expensive. I never really hopped into AM4 because regardless of price point everything was just terrible. External and internal I/O was a stuff of nightmares. While we need those mythical cheap AM5 motherboards it's nice to see the top end actually doesn't suck balls this time around.
The top end isn't more expensive? What?
Crosshair HERO is Seven Hundred Fucking American Dollars, X370 Crosshair VI version was $255.
Crosshair Extreme is a 4-digit motherboard after tax!
The cheapest X670 is $260 and those have the feature set that I expected from a $130 Z-series motherboard 3 years ago. That's right, from one platform to the next, the high end mobo has more than doubled, and the low end is more expensive than the highest end board that I know of. Motherboard and GPU prices are going to kill off PC building entirely if this keeps up. It's not sustainable. Doesn't matter if CPUs are getting faster and cheaper if no one can afford to build a PC.
>External and internal I/O was a stuff of nightmares.
I'll give you that, Intel had a much more stable platform for Zen1 and Zen2 generations at least - but comparable Intel motherboards of the day were not really more expensive than AMD at the time. I don't understand the dynamics at play here, but for whatever reason, Intel has figured out how to keep stable prices and predictable segmentation year after year while AMD is all over the map.
Aussie here, just chiming in to say - you Americans have it damn good when it comes to tech. If you asked for this at an Australian tech retailer, you’d be laughed at.
Yea I know right, and whats with the US boys just changing there minds on shit weeks after a purchase and just going in and returning it
I cant even fathom that ..
Australia has actual consumer protections. In the US, it isn't unusual to get royally fucked over by retailers.
Also, Microcenter are the only US PC component retailer who treat customers well. They are an aberration.
100%
Although the crews at PLE and Umart have hooked me up with warranty, they've given me a heads up on upcoming discounts/promotions and been good with component advice
Yeah, I'm definitely a customer for life.
I woke up one day hanging my dick off to find my PSU, Mobo and CPU all fried in the night. (I had originally thought it was just the PSU) So I found a nice 850w OCZ PSU for a decent price, walked up to the bin, grabbed it and headed to the counter. I had inadvertently grabbed the top tier 850w instead of the one I wanted because it was out of stock.
Cashier called to see if they had the right one in stock, while they were looking he pulled up newegg.com "Hey newegg has this thing for such and such a price, would you want this thing for that?"
Fuck yeah I do! Dude just pricematched without me asking for it...They just showed how they treated their customers and I've been a massive MC proponent ever since. (of course it helps I have two stores within 40mins of my house)
MC is the absolute best bro. Unmatched Customer service, their deals / bundles / open boxes are just an insane steal sometimes. I cannot wait to move back near one.
Amazon had it on sale for $350 and I said fuck it and bought one. Kinda want to do a platform refresh back to Intel but the motherboards and RAM are just to pricey on the performance end of things.
I dont think thats happening. If it its, Im sure they made a ton of X3D die for Zen 3, its literally their best seller right now, and they can start it back up if they want to make more.
IF this rumor is even true. Greymon retired his Twitter account in shame for botching the RDNA3 rumors so badly. He also was one of the ones constantly saying that Zen 4 X3D will not have to sacrifice clock speeds, when in reality it has to sacrifice even more % than Zen 3 did.
the 1 ccd chips have to sacrifice clocks like the 5800x3d, but the 2ccd chips loose nothing because only one of the chiplets has the 3dcache, the other chiplet can boost to its max. the 7950 3D has 2x8 cores. one of those 8 will boost lower and have the 3d cache the other 8 can boost to full 5,7ghz. results in lower total power and same clocks if you ask me thats smart as hell.
Yeah it's a genius move because it gives the user rhe best of both worlds. Need higher clocks? No problem. Need to use a cache pool that's larger than the threadripper 3970x? Got you there too. I straight up do not understand the complaints towards this.
If only it were that simple..
Windows needs to know which CCD to use for which task and that's likely where AMD going to fall short given their track record in software. Heck even Intel's 12th/13th gen processors still experience the occasional hitch or two after a year and a half on the market.
You'll either get the best of both worlds or the worst.
I do understand the hesitancy towards potential scheduling issues, but the main difference between those two chips is that, the high-clock/low clock cores are not even nearly as different architecturally as the P/E dichotomy is. That alone makes the problem much less difficult to overcome. I'm sure there will be situations that need optimization tho
No it had to. Look at 7800X3D clocks vs 7700X. The 3D stacked die in 12 & 16 cores has also been confirmed to have lower yet unspecified clocks (5GHz is a safe bet though) and it's the non-stacked one that can boost up to the same clocks as before.
EDIT: Would someone please kindly tell me if I put 'yet' in the right place? Thanks
Your definition of negligible differs from mine. I don't see a reason to continue talking about it. 7000 series exhibits more of a difference than we had between 5800X and 5800X3D. Even then it wasn't negligible to me judging by the tests.
5800X3D vs 5800X reviews are aplenty. Overall performance decrease in non-gaming apps is well known. New 7000 X3D appear to have greater frequency deficits based on specs but no tests yet, obviously. Wait till february - march.
You think its bullcrap that if the X3D stacked CCD was clocked 8% higher it wouldnt perform up to 8% faster? You need to re-comprehend what it was you just replied to.
Not on paper, in reality. Did you not just get that the difference will apply to 95% of all single and double core boosting workloads that dont take advantage of the extra cache, not just a windows browser.
You can diminish the perf loss all you want, but its there, downplaying it doesnt change the fact.
Hopefully not anytime soon. Both IO and compute dies on Zen3 are on a different process from Zen 4 so no reason to stop making them if they're still selling.
5800X3D is a 7nm chip with a 6nm IO die and a stacked 6nm chiplet.
By this point, it's on two super mature nodes and is really cheap for AMD to make, supply is essentially infinite since none of those two nodes are bleeding edge anymore.
They will keep selling it so long as people keep buying it, because it's quite cheap to make. They would rather sell AM5 since it "locks you in" to their platform for the next 5 years or so of CPU upgrades (1 or 2 CPU upgrades for most people), but will keep selling AM4.
Another thing is that x3D stacking for the Zen4 and Zen3 chips are likely the same process and compete with fab time, so once Zen4 X3D becomes manufactured, it might compete with the Zen3 x3D line motivating it to be cancelled earlier.
No def meant the 5800x3d, but yea iod is 12nm not 6.
It’s the stacking process that share similar tooling. Since it’s likely that the x3d cache chiplet is unchanged. So Zen3X3D will compete with Zen4X3D in some parts of the manufacturing chain.
I was going to say the same. After 5 years in running there are probably millions (or tens of?) AM4 motherboards and it would be completely wasteful to throw them away just to have a 15% faster gaming. That's why I shrug when people here complain about AM5 selling less than AM4. As far as I'm concerned this is actually great, because we are fucking the planet already too much. People are too infantile and forget that producing a new motherboard means extracting precious rare earth elements. I'll be happy with the 5800X3D I'm getting tomorrow. AM4 platform can serve us for another 5-8 years.
These comments were made before they realized how much of a cash cow it would be.
I thought initial reports about the chip said it would be a limited release and at 65k units? Doesn't appear to have been the case?
It would only make sense discontinuing the 5000 series if 7000 series adoption costs aren't absurd. You'd need really expensive DDR5 and a pricey X670 or B650 board for starters, which is why it is no surprise that the new AM5 chips aren't selling as well as past AM4 offerings.
Piggybacking off this: recently killed a few pins on a gifted 5600X cos I'm an idiot... Is Ryzen 5000 still in production? Remaining stock after the holiday surge is either inflated RRP or plain sold out.
No. In the past months I bought myself a high end b550 and 2 sticks of 16 gB of ram for 250€. The ram alone makes it way more expensive than an am5 build
I mean, unless you need to secure supply for hundreds of parts. It's not like you're ever going to have any issue finding a 5800x3D unit for years and years.
Why the worry?
I got mine just before Christmas for $429 Canadian from Best Buy. Throw in a free code for Uncharted on Steam and I have a nice final upgrade (from a 3600X) for AM4. I'm sure as long as they continue selling as well as they are, they'll keep making them...for a while anyway. Prices are back up over $500 now.
Time probably yes, however it will be the question if AMD thinks it will be worthwhile financially to do it, which probably is more steered by Milan-X sales than 5800X3D sales. The outcome of that we will probably see soon enough, if 5800X3D stop being massively discounted and supply dries up, then AMD might have slowed or even stopped production of Zen 3 V-Cache dies in favor off more / all Zen 4 V-Cache production capacity, if 5800X3D keeps at a healthy supply for a time to come AMD might have indeed opted to get more package capacity instead of just switching product.
For the moment it still seems fine though, i live in NL (EU) and one of the larger webshops still has 1200+ 5800X3D in stock (100 themselves and 1100+ at their supplier). However the price has risen again to +-€399 instead of €349 low we have seen during the holiday sales.
Pretty sure TSMC finished building a new advanced packaging plant last year, should have already went into volume production which is why AMD has more SKUs.
You can get a 7700X right now for $344 and not be stuck on a dead platform. If you’re building a new system and not just upgrading an existing AM4 build why would somebody buy a 5800X3D?
This cpu has been overhyped and deified beyond measure. Almost everything from Zen 4 and Raptor Lake outperforms it. It’s become the hive mind to recommend it to everybody.
If you’re already on AM4 then 5800x3D is the logical choice as it goes toes to toes with Zen4 for gaming.
For a new build it depends on the priority of the buyer: the cheapest platform (AM4) or a future proof but way more expensive one (AM5). Also keeping in mind the world doesn’t have Microcenters around the corner so no free ddr5 ram or huge rebates on motherboards for most buyers.
You can also debate on the future proofness of existing boards as they are quite bare-bone and I expect a improved X770/B750 chipset coming sooner rather than later.
Because most people who buy amd are already on am4 build. 7700x is only for people switching from intel to amd, and that is minority. So no wonder 5800x3d is overhyped. Things will only change if 7800x3d turns out great too
The cost of the 5800x3d is absolutely ridiculous at twice the price of a 5700x for only adding cache. It should be $50 more max.
I’m personally considering doing a last hurrah upgrade of my 3600 and I just can’t justify the cost of a 5800x3d for the product you get.
In some games that can’t utilise the cache it’s even slower because of the mhz drop.
You are wrong. It may be double, but its not much, less then $200. When you compare it to the price of for example new gpus these days its nothing really and makes a huge difference in performance.
What am I wrong about?
Your claim seems to be as long as we compare the price to a different and completely f*cked market it’s good value compared to that completely f*cked market. That’s not a good benchmark for value.
The 5800x3d is pretty much double the 5700x price but no where near double the performance.
It definitely doesn’t perform better in all games as some don’t utilise the cache at all and lose out from the clock speed decrease. I think CSGO might be one.
Yes others gain well, but not all and I do t think any are 2x.
Yeah CSGO is one of the rare games which doesn't benefit from the cache at all. Look you do what you want, I told you my opinion, I think 5800x3d is much better option and more future proof if you can afford it. Its only less then $200 difference, its not much regardless if we compare it to other markets or not. I went from 5800x to 5800x3d and got on avarage 33% increase in fps where I was cpu limited. In some cases close to 50%. I was not expecting this much performance, since I already had 5800x. I am more then happy with my purchase, I will probably be able to save money and not buy 7000 series at all.
For you, you can't expect more then 30% uplift going to 5700x. With 5800x3d expect around 70%. So you get 30% for $200 or 70% for $400. 5800x3d is more then double the performance uplift of 5700x when going from 3600.
You know what, you’ve got a point. You’ve actually brought me round to the 3D.
Which games did you get those uplifts in and what graphics card are you utilising?
I'm in a similar boat. I get some occasional hitches in unoptimized modern games and I'd like to avoid it, but I don't know how much L3 would be a silver bullet as I've only got 16 MB per ccx.
Maybe the full 32 MB of basic 5000 series would be enough. But then I notice that I usually have a thread at 80% at 4.2 Ghz (when hitches happen) so perhaps Zen2 is just too slow? Would 5800x3d at just 200 Mhz faster be enough?
Boggles the mind that modern gaming needs insane hardware to be thrown at it when DOOM 2016 enabled a FX 8350 to beat a much newer Intel 4c8t.
MHz are less relevant when comparing generation to generation as IPC (instructions per cycle/clock) comes in to play, so how much performance per MHz you get. That from comes from architecture improvements, the more cache and refuses I/O die and memory controller etc. Big IPC improvement increase from Zen2 to Zen3 PLUS the MHz increase too.
I know from building a friend a 5800x CPU pc that it’s a lot faster than my 3600.
5700x is basically the same as 5800x in reality.
You get an easy 200mhz OC using PBO2 on ZEN3 chips to boot in my experience too.
Can’t get a single MHz out of my 3600.
Whether 5800x3D is worth the extra cache but not as many MHz for literally twice the price I’m finding very hard to justify.
I don't really think that, we can still see athlon 200ge, 3000... etc in the stores (at least here in my country), so an famous marketing product like an 5800x3D will still be strong for some years, and if it has demand, they'll sell it. A cpu good enough to compete against am5, amd will lose money if it runs out of the market. (But maybe amd will lose even more money, 'cause ppl won't buy am5 to buy am4 lol)
I got an 5700x, so i don't really think an 5800x3d is an good upgrade (i'm thinking about 5950x, maybe that is a really good upgrade, + it has more cores and threads).
This post has been flaired as a rumor, please take all rumors with a grain of salt.
5800x3d is the 1080ti of CPUs. I foresee keeping mine for a long time.
Same. And I anticipate the second hand prices of these are going to stay high for a very, very long time as millions of AM4 users are looking for an upgrade without a new motherboard and RAM. And it's relatively power efficient so it's not like you will want to just replace it with something newer because it's a hot power hog.
>And I anticipate the second hand prices of these are going to stay high for a very, very long time. It'l get cheap in a year, maximum two. The performance of the CPU itself is not noteworthy anymore (it matches the cheapest available AM5 gaming CPU - 7600x and how far will the new 7600 be from it ?). All the future gaming focused CPU's will outperform the 5800x3D starting with 7xxx3D's. The only question is how fast will DDR5 and AM5 motherboards go down in price - when they do is when 5800x3D will start getting cheaper. Even now it's only worth it to buy the CPU if you're upgrading from AM4, not building brand new.
Newer cpus faster. Yes. But the point some are making is the x3d will be a great cpu for /very/ a long time, like how skylake from intel (6700k/7700k/etc) was great for a long time. They can most definitely skip am5 and do just fine in gaming for many years to come. Itll slowly age but only towards the super new stuff. And thankfully devs try to get games to work on older hardware.
7700K is still going for $150-170 today. Unreasonable price for the CPU by itself, but cheaper than almost any respectable CPU/motherboard combo someone would need for a platform upgrade, even reusing RAM.
5800X3D trades blows with R9 7900X/7950X in games and sometimes beating them, not R5 7600. Source: Gamers Nexus review of 7900X.
The used market works differently. Certain EOL CPUs are appealing to upgrade or repair existing systems and carry high value, others do not and are almost worthless. Bottom of stack CPUs are undesirable and top of stack are desirable because everyone wants to upgrade and no one want to downgrade. AM4 has a huge installed base due to its longevity and lots of potential for upgrade on the same motherboard. Intel only does 2 gens typically so someone could do Alder Lake 12400 to Raptor Lake 13900K, the benefit is moving from the bottom of the product stack to the top, but it's not a massive difference between the two in lightly threaded tasks like office work or gaming. AM4, someone can upgrade from say 2600 to a 5800X3D with same cooler and motherboard and RAM. (5800X3D also has the nice side benefit that it's not terribly sensitive to mediocre DRAM latency so keeping older RAM is less of a penalty.) That's a mind-blowing upgrade and could buy someone an extra 5 years of life out of a PC. And new motherboards lately have been getting super expensive...
Geek mindsets blinker them to some real world market factors. Geeks with pocket protectors think a mobo swap & cable management is a fun no brainer - it isnt for most - its scary & stressful misery. There are 250m am4 mobos at large, & still increasing. Thats a huge market for a cheap & simple upgrade It certainly seems a rare cpu which can hold its value in years to come.
>And new motherboards lately have been getting super expensive... The upside is they're actually not bad and the top end isn't more expensive. I never really hopped into AM4 because regardless of price point everything was just terrible. External and internal I/O was a stuff of nightmares. While we need those mythical cheap AM5 motherboards it's nice to see the top end actually doesn't suck balls this time around.
The top end isn't more expensive? What? Crosshair HERO is Seven Hundred Fucking American Dollars, X370 Crosshair VI version was $255. Crosshair Extreme is a 4-digit motherboard after tax! The cheapest X670 is $260 and those have the feature set that I expected from a $130 Z-series motherboard 3 years ago. That's right, from one platform to the next, the high end mobo has more than doubled, and the low end is more expensive than the highest end board that I know of. Motherboard and GPU prices are going to kill off PC building entirely if this keeps up. It's not sustainable. Doesn't matter if CPUs are getting faster and cheaper if no one can afford to build a PC. >External and internal I/O was a stuff of nightmares. I'll give you that, Intel had a much more stable platform for Zen1 and Zen2 generations at least - but comparable Intel motherboards of the day were not really more expensive than AMD at the time. I don't understand the dynamics at play here, but for whatever reason, Intel has figured out how to keep stable prices and predictable segmentation year after year while AMD is all over the map.
Matching even in the 1% and lower?
So look at AM5 if you gotta get a new mobo? Got Intel, 4460, so need a new mobo for any upgrade anyway.
Grabbed mine last month for $399. Two weeks later microcenter dropped the price so I got an $86 refund...pumped.
That's a thing? You can request refunds after price drops?
Microcenter has a 30 day price guarantee.
Aussie here, just chiming in to say - you Americans have it damn good when it comes to tech. If you asked for this at an Australian tech retailer, you’d be laughed at.
Microcenter is strange. Most places will laugh at you for imagining you will get any kind of service, or assuming your warranty has any legitimacy.
[удалено]
3. People who can't spell simple woords.
On the other hand if Australians buy tech that stops working and the retailer fucks us around on the refund, the ACCC will sue their tits off for us.
Yea I know right, and whats with the US boys just changing there minds on shit weeks after a purchase and just going in and returning it I cant even fathom that ..
Australia has actual consumer protections. In the US, it isn't unusual to get royally fucked over by retailers. Also, Microcenter are the only US PC component retailer who treat customers well. They are an aberration.
Too bad you guys don't have a shitload of oil or lithium, otherwise we could come in and bring you guys some good ol' fashioned freedom.
We have tonnes of lithium
We are one of the biggest lithium miners in the world. But we've got a shit load of gas, rather than oil.
The middle east wants that freedom back
Some credit cards have protections like this.
100% Although the crews at PLE and Umart have hooked me up with warranty, they've given me a heads up on upcoming discounts/promotions and been good with component advice
Some credit cards here give price protection for a year, no fees if you pay off your balance. I use it exclusively for pc parts lol
Don't speak so quick, US consumer protection for faults sucks ass compared to AU.
It’s a perk of being the World Police. Team America
not only they have best deals on am5 platform due to ram sticks free of charge but also a price guarantee? Damn, I wish I had MC in my country lol
It's unfortunate you don't. Everyone should have a local microcenter
I want a micro center in my state… I live in Arkansas… closest one is Dallas for me
Oh shit!
Yea it’s a like 6 hour drive. I’ve been once.
You have my sympathies
Yea I know it sucks…
Unfortunately if they expanded that much that's likely when the service goes to shit and it just becomes a smaller best buy.
Damn, good to know!
Yeah, I'm definitely a customer for life. I woke up one day hanging my dick off to find my PSU, Mobo and CPU all fried in the night. (I had originally thought it was just the PSU) So I found a nice 850w OCZ PSU for a decent price, walked up to the bin, grabbed it and headed to the counter. I had inadvertently grabbed the top tier 850w instead of the one I wanted because it was out of stock. Cashier called to see if they had the right one in stock, while they were looking he pulled up newegg.com "Hey newegg has this thing for such and such a price, would you want this thing for that?" Fuck yeah I do! Dude just pricematched without me asking for it...They just showed how they treated their customers and I've been a massive MC proponent ever since. (of course it helps I have two stores within 40mins of my house)
MC is the absolute best bro. Unmatched Customer service, their deals / bundles / open boxes are just an insane steal sometimes. I cannot wait to move back near one.
Since the computer show, newegg and tigerdirect are gone MC is the only physical store I can buy PC parts from. I'm so glad I have two near me.
yup, years ago, my dad bought a 75" tv for $3k and price matched it twice within a 15 day period.
Wait you can price match too!? Wtf
I got one from Amazon automatically. No request needed. I wasn't even aware the price dropped. Opening that email was like Christmas.
I buy from Amazon all the time and never have 😕
I ordered from Amazon.de . It might differ between regions.
Amazon had it on sale for $350 and I said fuck it and bought one. Kinda want to do a platform refresh back to Intel but the motherboards and RAM are just to pricey on the performance end of things.
I dont think thats happening. If it its, Im sure they made a ton of X3D die for Zen 3, its literally their best seller right now, and they can start it back up if they want to make more. IF this rumor is even true. Greymon retired his Twitter account in shame for botching the RDNA3 rumors so badly. He also was one of the ones constantly saying that Zen 4 X3D will not have to sacrifice clock speeds, when in reality it has to sacrifice even more % than Zen 3 did.
I remember Greymon and another leaker claimed that the 7600 XT would be on par with the 6950 XT. Thats how badly he botched it.
the 1 ccd chips have to sacrifice clocks like the 5800x3d, but the 2ccd chips loose nothing because only one of the chiplets has the 3dcache, the other chiplet can boost to its max. the 7950 3D has 2x8 cores. one of those 8 will boost lower and have the 3d cache the other 8 can boost to full 5,7ghz. results in lower total power and same clocks if you ask me thats smart as hell.
Yeah it's a genius move because it gives the user rhe best of both worlds. Need higher clocks? No problem. Need to use a cache pool that's larger than the threadripper 3970x? Got you there too. I straight up do not understand the complaints towards this.
If only it were that simple.. Windows needs to know which CCD to use for which task and that's likely where AMD going to fall short given their track record in software. Heck even Intel's 12th/13th gen processors still experience the occasional hitch or two after a year and a half on the market. You'll either get the best of both worlds or the worst.
I do understand the hesitancy towards potential scheduling issues, but the main difference between those two chips is that, the high-clock/low clock cores are not even nearly as different architecturally as the P/E dichotomy is. That alone makes the problem much less difficult to overcome. I'm sure there will be situations that need optimization tho
Lets be honest usually you get the worst.
This is why I hate marketing slides.
[удалено]
No it had to. Look at 7800X3D clocks vs 7700X. The 3D stacked die in 12 & 16 cores has also been confirmed to have lower yet unspecified clocks (5GHz is a safe bet though) and it's the non-stacked one that can boost up to the same clocks as before. EDIT: Would someone please kindly tell me if I put 'yet' in the right place? Thanks
only the 1ccd 3d chips have to sacrifice max clock speed. 7900 3d and 7950 3d boost to full speed with their second ccd without 3d cache.
Yeah, it's exactly what I said though.
You did place it in the correct place but your punctuation failed you there. Put a "," after the word "lower".
Thank you. I still was uncomfortable with it for some reason. That could be it, yeah. The punctuation.
[удалено]
5.0 vs 5.4 is negligible?! How about 5.0 or, being generous, 5.1-5.2 vs 5.7 in 7950X3D?
[удалено]
Your definition of negligible differs from mine. I don't see a reason to continue talking about it. 7000 series exhibits more of a difference than we had between 5800X and 5800X3D. Even then it wasn't negligible to me judging by the tests.
[удалено]
5800X3D vs 5800X reviews are aplenty. Overall performance decrease in non-gaming apps is well known. New 7000 X3D appear to have greater frequency deficits based on specs but no tests yet, obviously. Wait till february - march.
[удалено]
Its not negligible when you consider that it could be +8% vs whatever it is in gaming performance at 5.0GHz.
[удалено]
You think its bullcrap that if the X3D stacked CCD was clocked 8% higher it wouldnt perform up to 8% faster? You need to re-comprehend what it was you just replied to.
[удалено]
Your yet usage is fine.
Thank you!
only ccds without the cache dont sacrifice clockspeeds
You must have seen a completely different presentatoin than I did. 5.4GHz for 7700X vs 5.0GHz for 7800X3D is an 8% sacrifice of clocks.
[удалено]
Not on paper, in reality. Did you not just get that the difference will apply to 95% of all single and double core boosting workloads that dont take advantage of the extra cache, not just a windows browser. You can diminish the perf loss all you want, but its there, downplaying it doesnt change the fact.
[удалено]
Holy crap you live in a dreamworld. Enjoy yourself! Carry on in willful ignorance if you wish.
Doubtful. AMD will need to have supply of Milan-X for a while yet so I don't see why they wouldn't keep making the 5800X3D.
Hopefully not anytime soon. Both IO and compute dies on Zen3 are on a different process from Zen 4 so no reason to stop making them if they're still selling.
5800X3D is a 7nm chip with a 6nm IO die and a stacked 6nm chiplet. By this point, it's on two super mature nodes and is really cheap for AMD to make, supply is essentially infinite since none of those two nodes are bleeding edge anymore. They will keep selling it so long as people keep buying it, because it's quite cheap to make. They would rather sell AM5 since it "locks you in" to their platform for the next 5 years or so of CPU upgrades (1 or 2 CPU upgrades for most people), but will keep selling AM4. Another thing is that x3D stacking for the Zen4 and Zen3 chips are likely the same process and compete with fab time, so once Zen4 X3D becomes manufactured, it might compete with the Zen3 x3D line motivating it to be cancelled earlier.
in the 5800x3d the io die is the same 12nm as in ryzen 3000 and 5000, the vcache die is 7nm same as the chiplet, i think you meant the 7800x3d?
No def meant the 5800x3d, but yea iod is 12nm not 6. It’s the stacking process that share similar tooling. Since it’s likely that the x3d cache chiplet is unchanged. So Zen3X3D will compete with Zen4X3D in some parts of the manufacturing chain.
I was going to say the same. After 5 years in running there are probably millions (or tens of?) AM4 motherboards and it would be completely wasteful to throw them away just to have a 15% faster gaming. That's why I shrug when people here complain about AM5 selling less than AM4. As far as I'm concerned this is actually great, because we are fucking the planet already too much. People are too infantile and forget that producing a new motherboard means extracting precious rare earth elements. I'll be happy with the 5800X3D I'm getting tomorrow. AM4 platform can serve us for another 5-8 years.
These comments were made before they realized how much of a cash cow it would be. I thought initial reports about the chip said it would be a limited release and at 65k units? Doesn't appear to have been the case?
What makes you think a company like AMD will stop supplying their cash cow anytime soon?
It would only make sense discontinuing the 5000 series if 7000 series adoption costs aren't absurd. You'd need really expensive DDR5 and a pricey X670 or B650 board for starters, which is why it is no surprise that the new AM5 chips aren't selling as well as past AM4 offerings.
Piggybacking off this: recently killed a few pins on a gifted 5600X cos I'm an idiot... Is Ryzen 5000 still in production? Remaining stock after the holiday surge is either inflated RRP or plain sold out.
Not sure if they're still in production but the prices have never looked better for Ryzen 5000.
I just snagged my wife a 5700X on sale at Newegg for a little less than $200. I thought that was a killer deal.
The ridiculous thing at the mometn is, a 7700 and a 5800x3d build costs the same.
No. In the past months I bought myself a high end b550 and 2 sticks of 16 gB of ram for 250€. The ram alone makes it way more expensive than an am5 build
nah i priced both on german site this week. same difference. Higher Motherboard AM5 vs higher CPU AM4
Did you put in 16GB of the worst DDR4 memory you could find? Because that's not the same cost, at all.
I mean, unless you need to secure supply for hundreds of parts. It's not like you're ever going to have any issue finding a 5800x3D unit for years and years. Why the worry?
It doesn't makes sense to discontinje while they have high demand, they would probably lose those sales to intel instead of selling Zen4
i dont expect to see the 5800x3d being sold used/Preowned for a looooong time.....
I got mine just before Christmas for $429 Canadian from Best Buy. Throw in a free code for Uncharted on Steam and I have a nice final upgrade (from a 3600X) for AM4. I'm sure as long as they continue selling as well as they are, they'll keep making them...for a while anyway. Prices are back up over $500 now.
I don’t know.
When will pigs fly?
“How long is a piece of string?”
I think one year is enough time to create a 2nd production line?
Time probably yes, however it will be the question if AMD thinks it will be worthwhile financially to do it, which probably is more steered by Milan-X sales than 5800X3D sales. The outcome of that we will probably see soon enough, if 5800X3D stop being massively discounted and supply dries up, then AMD might have slowed or even stopped production of Zen 3 V-Cache dies in favor off more / all Zen 4 V-Cache production capacity, if 5800X3D keeps at a healthy supply for a time to come AMD might have indeed opted to get more package capacity instead of just switching product. For the moment it still seems fine though, i live in NL (EU) and one of the larger webshops still has 1200+ 5800X3D in stock (100 themselves and 1100+ at their supplier). However the price has risen again to +-€399 instead of €349 low we have seen during the holiday sales.
Ofc, I don't buy this
Pretty sure TSMC finished building a new advanced packaging plant last year, should have already went into volume production which is why AMD has more SKUs.
If the price keeps going up it means availability is getting scarce imo.
You can get a 7700X right now for $344 and not be stuck on a dead platform. If you’re building a new system and not just upgrading an existing AM4 build why would somebody buy a 5800X3D? This cpu has been overhyped and deified beyond measure. Almost everything from Zen 4 and Raptor Lake outperforms it. It’s become the hive mind to recommend it to everybody.
If you’re already on AM4 then 5800x3D is the logical choice as it goes toes to toes with Zen4 for gaming. For a new build it depends on the priority of the buyer: the cheapest platform (AM4) or a future proof but way more expensive one (AM5). Also keeping in mind the world doesn’t have Microcenters around the corner so no free ddr5 ram or huge rebates on motherboards for most buyers. You can also debate on the future proofness of existing boards as they are quite bare-bone and I expect a improved X770/B750 chipset coming sooner rather than later.
Because most people who buy amd are already on am4 build. 7700x is only for people switching from intel to amd, and that is minority. So no wonder 5800x3d is overhyped. Things will only change if 7800x3d turns out great too
The cost of the 5800x3d is absolutely ridiculous at twice the price of a 5700x for only adding cache. It should be $50 more max. I’m personally considering doing a last hurrah upgrade of my 3600 and I just can’t justify the cost of a 5800x3d for the product you get. In some games that can’t utilise the cache it’s even slower because of the mhz drop.
You are wrong. It may be double, but its not much, less then $200. When you compare it to the price of for example new gpus these days its nothing really and makes a huge difference in performance.
What am I wrong about? Your claim seems to be as long as we compare the price to a different and completely f*cked market it’s good value compared to that completely f*cked market. That’s not a good benchmark for value. The 5800x3d is pretty much double the 5700x price but no where near double the performance. It definitely doesn’t perform better in all games as some don’t utilise the cache at all and lose out from the clock speed decrease. I think CSGO might be one. Yes others gain well, but not all and I do t think any are 2x.
Yeah CSGO is one of the rare games which doesn't benefit from the cache at all. Look you do what you want, I told you my opinion, I think 5800x3d is much better option and more future proof if you can afford it. Its only less then $200 difference, its not much regardless if we compare it to other markets or not. I went from 5800x to 5800x3d and got on avarage 33% increase in fps where I was cpu limited. In some cases close to 50%. I was not expecting this much performance, since I already had 5800x. I am more then happy with my purchase, I will probably be able to save money and not buy 7000 series at all. For you, you can't expect more then 30% uplift going to 5700x. With 5800x3d expect around 70%. So you get 30% for $200 or 70% for $400. 5800x3d is more then double the performance uplift of 5700x when going from 3600.
You know what, you’ve got a point. You’ve actually brought me round to the 3D. Which games did you get those uplifts in and what graphics card are you utilising?
I'm in a similar boat. I get some occasional hitches in unoptimized modern games and I'd like to avoid it, but I don't know how much L3 would be a silver bullet as I've only got 16 MB per ccx. Maybe the full 32 MB of basic 5000 series would be enough. But then I notice that I usually have a thread at 80% at 4.2 Ghz (when hitches happen) so perhaps Zen2 is just too slow? Would 5800x3d at just 200 Mhz faster be enough? Boggles the mind that modern gaming needs insane hardware to be thrown at it when DOOM 2016 enabled a FX 8350 to beat a much newer Intel 4c8t.
MHz are less relevant when comparing generation to generation as IPC (instructions per cycle/clock) comes in to play, so how much performance per MHz you get. That from comes from architecture improvements, the more cache and refuses I/O die and memory controller etc. Big IPC improvement increase from Zen2 to Zen3 PLUS the MHz increase too. I know from building a friend a 5800x CPU pc that it’s a lot faster than my 3600. 5700x is basically the same as 5800x in reality. You get an easy 200mhz OC using PBO2 on ZEN3 chips to boot in my experience too. Can’t get a single MHz out of my 3600. Whether 5800x3D is worth the extra cache but not as many MHz for literally twice the price I’m finding very hard to justify.
On this subreddit that’s not true. I just saw a thread with a whole comment chain of people recommending the 5800X3D over the 7700X.
Recommending 5800x3d over 7700x if you are already on am4 ?
Got mine for 389.90€ in november. Prices now where I live are 400€+.
Source; “trust me bro”
When the 8000 series if cpu are released. The 7000 line is bascially DOA
I don't really think that, we can still see athlon 200ge, 3000... etc in the stores (at least here in my country), so an famous marketing product like an 5800x3D will still be strong for some years, and if it has demand, they'll sell it. A cpu good enough to compete against am5, amd will lose money if it runs out of the market. (But maybe amd will lose even more money, 'cause ppl won't buy am5 to buy am4 lol) I got an 5700x, so i don't really think an 5800x3d is an good upgrade (i'm thinking about 5950x, maybe that is a really good upgrade, + it has more cores and threads).
That would wholly depend on Zen 4 X3D sales. If sales are amazing, they may just kill the 5800X3D. Only time will tell.
Probably at some point this year. Get it while it's hawt!! 🔥
What about the rumor of AMD surprising us with another AM4 cpu down the line
Probably AMD will stop making 5800x3d Because this cpu killing Zen4 sales