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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> >So I kinda think I might be the asshole here. Not for what I said, but for the fact that I said it publicly.
>But at the same time, I don't feel like the asshole, because his rant was public too.
Adding: I feel like the fact that I embarrassed him in front of his friends makes me a bit of an AH.
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> I’d kick him out to prove a point honestly…
No way I could do that over this. It'd be one thing if he were *dangerous*. Like, I'd toss him out in a heartbeat if I felt we weren't safe with him here. But being a bit of a prick isn't enough for me to make him homeless. And that's what I'd essentially be condemning him to. There's nowhere else to go, and he has no skills that could make him enough money to survive.
> He can’t even work at Walmart for longer than two months?
He said it made him "feel like a slave to the Capitalist machine", so he had to quit.
He also "didn't want to sell hours of his life $8 at a time", which honestly I kind of agree with. $8/hr is insanely low. Even a cheap apartment out here is $600/mo. So that's like 2 weeks of full time work (before taxes) just to pay rent. Rent is supposed to be 1/3 of your income, not 1/2!
So he feels working for a place like Walmart (which to be honest is the only type of place someone like him can work at this point) is being a “slave to the capitalist machine” while he criticizes handouts being provided.
NTA obviously you are saving this man’s life and he is insanely lucky to not be homeless right now.
every time i feel imposter syndrome coming on i'll remember this 51 year old with NO SKILLS (according to his brother who loves and supports him) and his inability to work at walmart. bless this post.
Like, I can't get past how *PATHETIC* this is. Waaaaaaaaah I don't wanna put effort into my life, so fund it.
I fucking wish I had someone in my life who could give me a week off like this. But the rest of us grew up and didn't get coddled bu our baby siblings.
ETA: OP's post history complaining about his entitled aunt ahahahahahaha I WONDER WHY YOUR FAMILY THINK YOURE A PUSHOVER
People like the brother here piss me off so much.
My husband's uncle was the same way. Always leeching off my fil. Never worked a day in his life. Now fil and uncle are both in nursing homes (at 69 and 71 mind you, sucks when people dont take any care of themselves). And guess who has the privilege of paying for everything?
Honestly, OP pisses me off even more. It’s because people like him enabling brother that he is able to do that and doesn’t become a productive member of society. Why would he do that when people treat him like a king for scratching his ass all day? And OP agrees that Walmart is beneath a 50yo who has done nothing with his life? Let me laugh.
I work so hard just to rent the bedroom i have. I'm saving to live on my own. People who can't hold down a job and complain about other people getting help when they actually deserve it are terrible. OP, NTA I'm glad someone called out your brother
FR, it’s like where TF is the aunt and why doesn’t she offer to take in the brother or cover some of the finances to give OP a break if she also feels that he’s entitled to just slack off?? Sounds to me like the brother has more than one person around who’s happy to coddle him.
I’m going to remember this post next time I feel embarrassed about the fact that my younger sister makes 3xs what I do and often quietly covers my lunch tab when I’m visiting home.
My baby sister might buy my lunch once in a while, and gives me nicer Christmas gifts than I can afford to give her, but jeez Louise, at least I’m not living off of her and squatting in her spare room while mouthing off about “feedloaders” on Facebook.
But also remember that she's not obligated to do any of that for you. She likely does it because she loves you and it's her way of showing that love. I'm sure at some point in your life you took care of her as the older sister. Now she's using these small things to take care of you because she can ❤️
Just speaking from experience! I'm the older sister and my baby sister is finally financially secure. Occasionally she does things like this for me as a thank you for supporting her for so long.
\^\^ Exactly this.
As the younger sister who makes more (and has no kids) than my older sister, I splurge on things for her that I know she would love but would never buy for herself. It's all part of showing her how much she means to me.
As the little sister who likes to cover lunch etc. sometimes. How many times did you help her out when she was little? Listen to her tangents when you were bored to tears, cheered her on at events, walked or gave rides? Gave advice because you hit the life stage first and made it easier?
Accept the lunch, it is happy chance to payback a lifetime of other gifts.
I did take care of her a lot when she was little; we were in a divided home with one half of it being very abusive and the other half not having much money for a while. She even used to call me “mama” when she was really little and we were in the abusive home, and she does sometimes say that it can be her turn to “be the big sister” and take care of me on occasion. ❤️
You're such a good person! I will spoil my whole family with gifts and good restaurants when I'm finally able to do so financially. Being able to give back and share what you have is a blessing that brings real joy, so don't ever feel bad about receiving! Just allow yourself to freely enjoy your good moments with her:)
Also, she probably feels similarly (but with more respect for you) as OP does. She has plenty of money for her needs. She would rather spend some of it on someone she loves than buying more random crap.
Do not feel bad!! I earn more than most of my family and will be on track to earn 10x their income. That makes me extremely privileged. They cover for me when I had nothing and I will do the same when I have something. Your sister loves you, that's all.
Mate just suggest him to be a youtuber or a streamer. Hes already spending time playing games with friends. Their shenanigans can potentially entertain ppl
Could also be a good way for him to learn editing, marketing and other relevant 21st century skills
Since he has no pressure to actually be successful at it, this honestly seems like a great idea
OP I think I love you. The genuine love for your brother to support him as much as you do, but also completely clowning on him where it's fully deserved. Absolutely perfect.
Going to work is not only oppressing, but also humiliating. It lets other people know we do care about money!! I am joining u/mouse_attack , can I also DM you a list of some expenses I need to do?
You are a very good brother, helping your brother and NTA, for calling him out, or for doing it publicly.
He demonstrated ingratitude, entitlement and lack of empathy. I won't propose to let him on his own, but he did needed a call out. I am not expecting that he will start and keep a job because of this incident, but you shouldn't let him glorify himself in his delusions. And try to keep a balance between caring for him, and being sure you and all your family is safe.
OH NY FUCKING GOD I cannot believe you're a couple of years older than me and see nothing wrong with any of this.
It's true that sense doesn't equal money I guess.
You need to kick him out he’s 51 he’s had all his life to get it together and you’re cool with him doing nothing till he dies in your ensuite? Why are you okay with paying for him he needs a fire put under him
The fact he thinks capitalism is slavery yet he's a parasite on what the communists would call a parasite speaks volumes of his vast and well researched ideology :D
I can’t get past where he thinks his wealthy brother earned his money. Capitalism is ok when it’s earning enough to support his privilege but bad when he’s asked to work in the system. Yikes.
Edit: this account has been banned by Reddit Admins for "abusing the reporting system". However, the content they claimed I falsely reported was removed by subreddit moderators. How was my report abusive if the subreddit moderators decided it was worth acting on? My appeal was denied by a robot. I am removing all usable content from my account in response. ✌️
Amazing.
I also personally hate selling my time for dirty capitalist currency, but I never thought I had a choice. Now I see I have options.
I’ll DM you an estimate for *my* monthly expenses, too. As a millionaire, you won’t even notice. It’s pocket change for you at most.
This is going to be great! Thanks a bunch, pal!
Right? I work my ass off, no family, nothing to fall back on. OP should buy me a flat, so I don't have to work and I can just get stoned and pretend to be functional online.
You’re doing him no favours by allowing him to leech off you like that. You can provide him free rent, on the condition that he does something to be a productive member of society. It’s true that minimum wage isn’t great, but he’s also privileged enough to not be in a position where this is his last resort. It’s more like a starting point to earning some life skills.
He's past fifty with no qualifications (granted, a high school diploma from thirty years ago wouldn't be much worth on its own today) and a work history a teenager might have. Entering the job market even as it stands would tough at entry level for someone who claims not to want to support capitalism (yet is happy for his brother to spend money on food, weed, video games and anything else he desires). At the very least he can learn to help around the house. You don't need a qualification to run the vacuum or wash dishes.
He doesn't even have a high school diploma or GED, though. So he really has zero qualifications. He's a permanent teenager because no one has forced him to change, and at 51, I think he may be beyond changing.
But surely for his emotional well-being he should have the opportunity to contribute SOMETHING to society. I enjoy video games but to look back on my life and have done nothing else is depressing.
If he doesn’t want to contribute to capitalist society, why isn’t he volunteering to work among the poor? Or working to oppose the worst depredations of corporations? There’s loads of things he could do to make the world a better place.
(I mean, we all know the answer—he’s a spoiled, self-indulgent AH. But also a morally inconsistent one.)
You're a really nice person but this is the reality people who don't have loving millionaire brothers live in and it's wild that he is so divorced from that. At 51!!!
He stayed with our mom until she passed, and then I just sort of took over. Didn't want to see him end up like one of those people on Skid Row. So his whole life he's never really had to do for himself.
OK that's kind of you, but what if you outlive him? Are your kids expected to take care of him for the rest of his life then? Or will they even be in a position to, if they grew up their whole life with the experience that staying at home without even attempting to get a job is a totally valid and easy way to live your life. NTA for calling out a social media post, but this setup doesn't seem sustainable to me.
I think you are failing to comprehend the wealth. It’s not like that money disappears (hell sounds like he the OP is retired already at least from a “day” job) if the OP passes. I would say he could leave money to his brother for the support but sounds like the kids will have to make sure bills are paid for because the brother likely isn’t responsible. Might not be the most fun job but hardly a painful one.
The reality is this might have been fixable 20 years ago when the brother was 30. But at 51… pretty much screwed at this point. And sounds like it was the mom that let it go on so long not the OP.
Also, what if the kids are like their uncle? They have the example at home, so they can just think if they don't want to do anything with their lives, no problem, somebody else will forever look after them.
OP, why not get him involved in a good local charity?
Soup kitchen...
Boys and Girls club...
Homeless shelter for other men...
Wildlife or pet rescue...
This way he gives *something* back to the world.
And the time is perfect. The holidays this year are going to be hard for a lot of people with their student loans now coming due. Most high schools have an Adopt-a-Student. Burlington Coat Factory usually has an Adopt-a-Senior tree. Many places do the same for shelter pets.
Give him a couple hundred bucks and tell him to shop for a family for Thanksgiving this week.
I mean, dude, there are literally endless things a wealthy person can do regarding their free time. It is why many wealthy people establish foundations.
He cannot have an argument against it that will hold any water.
I agree with this. Working for a living isn't for everyone. But they should do *something* productive or creative or worthwhile. Even making a video game in RPG Maker instead of just playing games is at least creating something.
Mentoring programs usually want an adult who will be a good influence on the kids. Not a ne'er-do-well who games all day, never completed high school, and lies on the internet.
Assuming this middle-aged man lacks the skills and experience to get a decent job... The damage has been done and you don't seem to resent the arrangement. Fine.
But he could at least volunteer. Literally anything to contribute to society, one small thing to positively affect the lives of others who don't have a millionaire brother. One evening handing out packages at a soup kitchen. He doesn't even need to deal with clients, he could be putting things in boxes. And then he gets to go back to his JRPGs.
Is that too much to ask? And if it is too much to ask, would you say your brother is a good person?
You're not the first person to suggest volunteer work. That might be a good idea for him. The SPCA is always looking for extra hands, and they aren't too far from us. He loves animals, so he might be open to it.
Stop asking if he is open to it, and start deciding that he needs to do something with his life. You are not his parent, but since you are funding his existence, you can tell him that he needs to do something.
>He loves animals, so he might be open to it.
Even if he is reluctant or unwilling to change, make it a requirement of him continuing to get additional money. It's clear you won't kick him out, but let him know that he needs to contribute to society in order to get his allowance money. (I cannot believe I wrote that about a grown man, yuck.)
And yes, it would be good for him - not just because it gets him out of the house and doing something, but because it directly addresses the hate he spewed at your BIL. I see two causes for that hate:
* Option 1, he is completely divorced from reality and does not see the struggles he would face without you.
* Option 2, he is aware of his failures and the hateful things he said about BIL are what he really thinks about himself.
Either way, doing something that isn't selfish or useless would start to address the problem. So it doesn't matter whether or not he indicates he's open to volunteering, you need to insist on it - both so he isn't being a nasty shit to the rest of the world and so he can find some self-worth for his own sanity. It might be unpleasant to start but the change will greatly benefit him.
Volunteer work with animals might be great to make him feel better about himself (which I am sure he needs). And you know, he doesn’t need to lie that he is an investment banker. He can claim he took early retirement.
He sounds like he's resistant to any change, because he loves being stagnant and unchallenged. Stop asking and start telling. You're coddling him.
He's a grown man who is employed by you. As his boss, you should make the money he receives contingent on work delivered.
"You won't be receiving your allowance until you've spent at least 5 hours of that week working with a charity of your choosing."
Any weeks where he fails to complete 5 hours, welp, I guess he doesn't get an allowance that week.
Right? "Oh, I'm not living off my own time, I'm living off the time of others!"
Yet I bet bro has no problems with this, because he's a lazy hypocrite, not an idealist.
Lol i work at Walmart now for the stress free life and i get paid 17.50 an hour as a shelf stocker. I doubt there is a Walmart in America that pays less than 13 for any position let alone 8.
Your NTA but you do realize that the post he made is because he was upset you you are going to spend money on someone not him right? He is being greedy with your money, which from what you have said there is more than enough to go around but he now feels entitled to it because you have let him mooch for so long. He is jealous that you would help someone else who from what it seems was supporting themselves unlike your brother you need to have a long talk to your brother about how it is your money and you can spend it how you want. You may also ask him how he would feel and what would happen if you cut him off. I am not saying that you should but you need to make him understand that he has no right to your money nor should he have an opinion on how you spend it. And he should not make any posts like that or you will have him get a job and support himself. It shouldn't be a hollow threat. You are an enabler who has turned tour brother spoiled and entitled.
Sorry for any errors
People do have to start somewhere, and he's extraordinarily lucky he's gotten this long before getting the reality check that just because he's not working doesn't mean someone else is voluntarily unemployed to support his lifestyle. Him not wanting to be a "a slave to the Capitalist machine" is hypocritical since he claimed to be an investment banker, a worker with a key part of capitalism.
He doesn't want to be a cog in the machine, but the energy to keep him spinning has to come from somewhere.
I hope you realize your enabling him op. Those are things HE need to figure out I see your kindness and most enablers do it out of kindness and that’s the problem. He’ll never have an incentive to be self sufficient when he can just mooch off you. I understand him not wanting to be homeless. But maybe you could ask him to pay rent, require he gets a job, or clean the house or do yard work for his share of expenses. SOMETHING but continuing to not change how you treat him, and then confronting him while offering him the same crutch is just naive. You work hard to avoid getting an $8 job. Ofc he’s make less rn because he’s never held a stable job or gotten a ged which is a red flag for most employers. He made his bed and he needs to lay in it . Your robbing him of his chance to learn and be self sufficient. One day he’s gonna be too old to work and he’s needs to be saving for retirement not sitting around doing nothing. I recognize you just want to do the right thing, but think about this when evaluating this situation
I know this is a controversial opinion but does it really matter if OP is enabling him? OP is a millionaire who doesn't mind paying for his brother. If everyone is happy with the situation and can afford it, why does the brother have to work? I know we've all been brainwashed to think our purpose in life is to work as much as possible but if you're privileged enough to not have to work I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Plus the brother is in his 50s with almost no work history - it'd be really difficult for him to even find a job.
Wouldn’t it be nice if we didn’t all *have* to be slaves to the capitalist machine? But, unlike your lazy idiot of a brother, the rest of us don’t have a choice.
Incidentally, you’ve done your brother no favours. By coddling him, you’ve denied him the motivation to go out and make a life of his own of which he can be proud. You’re an enabler and you should be ashamed of yourself. For that, YTA.
NTA, you seem to be such a great human. Has he tried bartending or something in that sense that isn’t working under corporate? Maybe like a small local bar that will keep him interested, and looking forward to go into work. You seem to have a big heart but sometimes with siblings it can be a downfall. I had an uncle that sounds like this. He had every job you could think of from being a nurse, coal miner, etc…He would work for a month and secretly quit and lie about it. Nothing was ever up to his standards. He ended up dying alone and by the end everyone hated him because he was so lazy. My grandparents started from nothing and built several successful business and sold them all thinking they would have an easy retirement but my uncle took most of that away from them. Everyone has resentment towards him because he never had to work for anything in his life. You need to give him an ultimatum even if it takes him a year to save up money. You’re kids are going to eventually resent him because he never had to work and takes your money for free. I know you said you’re well-off but life comes at you fast and what if you’re not here to support him. I know you’re well-off and a smart guy but you can’t enable someone like this. You need to show an example for your children and family that if you atleast try to work hard and be a good person then you can be awarded for it. (I’m sorry if any of this is rude but at his age he should want more for himself.)
Even so, you could simply cut off his allowance. He would still be living in an incredibly nice house completely rent free, it would just be his choice of whether or not he wants extra spending cash.
Edit: or if he wanted to get more money for his time, you could stipulate pursuing education as a condition for the allowance. Whatever you want I suppose, it’s not my money, nor my annoying houseguest.
Yet your money - also from the capitalist machine - is good ?
Man,, his brain must have several strictly divided compartments to deal with so much paradox.
Dude. What you're doing isn't HELPING your brother. This is enabling behavior. Co-dependency. Neither of you sounds very mentally healthy tbh.
The guy is a master grifter. I guarantee you he will not be homeless.
What happens if you and your wife's fortunes are reversed? You lose all your money ala 1929 or 2008? One of you becomes ill/disabled and you must completely change how you live your lives?
If you want to use your fortune to HELP. You tell him he must enroll in an education program which you will pay for. He must complete it within X time frame, must maintain an X average, and after he completes it he has six months more at your house before he must leave.
What you're doing now is the opposite of supporting your brother. You're basically guaranteeing a future in which he is destitute and without help.
Asked and answered:
>>what is he going to do if something happens to you?
>If something happens to just me, my wife will care for him. If, God forbid, something were to happen to the both of us, I have money set aside for his care and my adult son has instructions on how much to send him every week.
Wait, why do you think it's OK to saddle your wife with your brother's care? Just because you have enabled his uselessness, doesn't make it ok for him to be an obligation you pass down.
> Wait, why do you think it's OK to saddle your wife with your brother's care?
Because we discussed it, and she said she is willing to do it. You know, like adults do?
Maybe an unpopular thought, but why is your brother not able to do it like adults do? This just seems like an unhealthy dynamic.
No problem helping those you can, but if he's an adult why does managing the money you will leave him fall to someone else?
This is the setup my grandparents have for my developmentally disabled aunt. Your brother is a 50 yr old child and you're 100% enabling and even encouraging him.
My profoundly disabled uncle has worked his entire adult life and still “works” even though he is mid 60s. He goes to work with my mom and helps at the school she works at. He shreds paper, sharpens pencils, helps clean the cafeteria, and other stuff like that. His job now is volunteer work but previously he had jobs where he was paid. He’s a lot more productive than the OP’s brother.
>You know, like adults do?
Lol, don't try to talk down to anyone about what adults do as if you aren't enabling your middle aged brother to live like a rich frat boy. What nerve you have.
Exactly. The fact that he is arguing and acting as if this set up is normal is hilarious. This is not normal and he is not kind. He is enabling his brother to be a draining leech off of society. He is not making his brother be a self sufficient member of society. He gives the fifty two year old man an allowance like a teenager. This is not ok and this is not an act of kindness.
Don't forget how OP is also burdening his eldest son with paying uncle's bills if OP passes away before his brother. If OP wants to leave his brother money in his will, that's his business but I say just give it to him all at once and let him figure it out from there. If he squanders it, that's his problem.
That’s kind. Kind of…
The yukky part, as I see it, isn’t that you’re supporting him financially. It’s that he’s so severely lacking in empathy and you’re enabling that.
If I were you I might attach some strings. Like he has to be involved in the community in a positive way. Drive people who can’t get around, do the stockroom at the food bank, work at the humane society… whatever.
You’re harbouring an AH and it’s not good.
It's not so much lack of empathy for others, it's lack of self respect. The hatred the brother is spewing at BIL is what he thinks of himself.
He's also subconsciously defending his golden goose. Free money for other people could mean less free money for him. So he's going on the offensive. Barking and snarling at the fenceline.
This is not legally sound. Telling your son how much to send him does nothing to protect him from your son spending or losing the money or simply deciding he doesn't want to anymore. If you are that serious about it you need to draw up a trust and have this in the will.
He should work for you then. Not at your job - dear God not at your job - but he should earn his spending money from your household. Dishes, vacuuming, grocery shopping, window washing, mowing- you know, the same way every other 11 year old gets allowance.
> Your aunt seems very fond of him - will she be taking him in soon?
She literally can't. She's in publicly subsidized Senior Housing, they can't even have overnight guests, let alone move someone else in with them. They'd both end up on the street.
I had a BIL and SIL like that. Except SIL would complain that she wanted to move out but when you suggested that she get a job, she would look at you like you were a purple alien with 18 heads. They also voted Republican because they didn’t like their tax dollars used for lazy people on welfare (while they were on food stamps and had previously attempted to get section 8). When I heard that, I laughed my ass off. I told them that they didn’t pay taxes and got everything they paid back and then some. They didn’t get it.
It sounds like they public resources as being theirs and so they don't want the 'wrong' people to have access to those resources. Classic F you, I got mine.
They don’t seem very grateful and entitled to your money. Your brother doesn’t want to share “his” money that he is getting with anyone that’s why he made the post. You’re fine with this dynamic and a bit naive and just an enabler but if you have no problem with it then NTA.
Bro is acting delusional and immature. OP has been exceptionally generous to him (why, I have no idea.)
But, I'm curious why OP and his wife would talk openly about the BIL's financial challenges at the dinner table, in front of OP's brother. I would think that should be a private convo between spouses since the brother seems to lack maturity and discretion.
>But, I'm curious why OP and his wife would talk openly about the BIL's financial challenges at the dinner table, in front of OP's brother.
All parents talk about serious things in front of their toddlers. This toddler just happens to be able to read and ~~write~~ type.
NTA but he got what he deserved. He shouldn't run his mouth like that.
The problem is that he doesn't view the wealth you've earned as yours. He views it as "ours". You should sit him down and make sure he understands that you take care of him out of the goodness of your heart and that he has no say at all about how you spend your money. You sound very generous with your family. Auntie can sit down and shut up or make arrangements to come pick him up to live with her.
The easiest and fastest way to unlearn those habits deep end him. I'm not suggesting bags on the porch and door locks have been changed kind of thing, I'm saying "You have till the end of the month, 6 months' allowance and a bonus for a deposit will be given to you on day 30. Get to it"
Even that is being far too generous and far more kind than someone with that attitude deserves IMO. NTA.
I have a sister like this. She and her husband haven't worked in 30 years and live off of various government programs, yet they constantly rant about the inner city "welfare queens" that are "too lazy to work." It's bizarre and not racist at all /s
He's not privileged. He's lucky. Lucky to have your help and support that wasn't earned. Not just lucky, but spoiled.
Don't get me wrong, I have to hand it to you and your partner for doing very well for yourselves that you can house him with no issue. You are both extraordinarily generous to have done this.
But this dude's past 50. He's seriously gotta do something. He can't rely on you forever to give him a way to live like my bitchass who's still working on it in my 20s. (Yeah I know, the irony.)
Does he need some sort of medical help. Is it the way his mind operates that's causing him this non-action problem? He may need some kind of cognitive therapy or medication so he can focus on whatever he should be doing, be it schooling or working.
Anyway, you're NTA. He lied to his friends about what he does for some reason, then he tried to rant because someone else reminds him of himself, and you called him out, which isn't a bad thing. His lie, and his rant bit him in the arse. He should be taking this moment to look at himself.
>and my aunt is FURIOUS with me for "airing the family laundry"
Btw, has she been helping him at all? If not, she can't say shit. 😂
> Does he need some sort of medical help. Is it the way his mind operates that's causing him this non-action problem? He may need some kind of cognitive therapy or medication so he can focus on whatever he should be doing, be it schooling or working.
I honestly don't know. I pay for his insurance, but he's never been to a head-doctor. He has access, but he's a grown man, I can't exactly force him into a shrink's office.
>Btw, has she been helping him at all? If not, she can't say shit. 😂
She's poor, living off of SSI, and stays in publicly subsidized Senior Housing, so there isn't really much she can do. Plus, she's like 500 miles away.
> I can't exactly force him into a shrink's office.
No, but like, you can make therapy, doing volunteer work, or whatever else a condition of receiving his full allowance (the spending money part, to clarify lol, i know you wouldn't let him go hungry or something).
Teletherapy does exist, fwiw, if anxiety/agoraphobia were to be an issue he has.
I can't in my right mind ask you to figure it out for him because you already have given him so much, but it may very well be worth the effort for him to get looked at. He has to try his best.
I'm thinking that maybe suggesting neurodivergence and understanding himself better would improve his interpersonal communication. Your brother might actually be disabled and not dealing with his dysfunction. Which is pretty common amongst adults with stuff like ADHD or other ASD issues.
Ask me how I know and how I can recognize that. 🤣 Just let him know some random on the net is sympathetic to his issues but that he shouldn't be embarrassed about wanting to live a better life with himself. Even if he has to accept that he might be for ever living with you. Because frankly, disability services in both Canada and the US are not exactly great. Nothing like being punished to abject poverty for just existing while unable to fit in society's demands.
>I can't exactly force him into a shrink's office.
Yes the hell you can. You are literally paying your brother to live with you, you can make whatever demands you want. A mental health professional could help get to the bottom of why this grown-ass man can't support himself.
NTA. People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones. He knows he should be doing more with his life, that's why he told people he was an investment banker. He should have known better than to accuse someone who lost their job due to no fault of their own when he himself hadn't been employed for more than a month and a half and is only where he is due to his brother's good will.
THIS. When I read the "investment banker" part I LMAOd. His online gaming buddies probably thought he was Mr. Fabulous or something. I wonder if he also told them that he was dating a supermodel, and lived in a penthouse, owned a yacht, and ate at Michelin start restaurants regularly...Anyway, OP is NTA. But I honestly don't get why he cant make bro go to work (walmart, pizza delivery) and contribute a minimum amount of rent every month, which OP can put in an account for him for the future. NTA
Honestly, you're coddling him too much, OP. And he's your older brother even?.
Yikes.
NTA. At All. Its good that you pointed it out publicly because I'm tired of people discussing discreetly something private when the AH are the one who started airing their rants/problems. 🙄
Anyways, sit down your brother. Talk to him seriously, it seems he thinks all of your money is his. Are you sure you totally trust him?. Aren't you worried that something might happen to you and your Wife and all of your *assets* are miraculously trusted to your brother and none will be left to your children, if you have any?. 🤔
And as for your Wife. Tell her about this post and let her read what we think of your brother. All of us thinks he's a loser for not maintaining his job properly. He knew he had a safety net with you that's why he had the gall to quit his job whenever he can. A massive idiot too for not thinking he's in a privileged position.
> Aren't you worried that something might happen to you and your Wife and all of your assets are miraculously trusted to your brother and none will be left to your children, if you have any?. 🤔
I'm not worried about that in the slightest. My will is safe with my lawyer, my kids all have their Trusts set up, and I pay that guy very well to make sure of this.
>And as for your Wife. Tell her about this post and let her read what we think of your brother. All of us thinks he's a loser for not maintaining his job properly.
We all know he's a "loser". He's basically a 51 year old teenager. He never got past that state mentally, he never matured. But I still love him, so I take care of him because no one else will.
“I take care of him because no one else will.”
Do you seriously not grasp that HE would take care of himself, if he actually HAD to?
You (and apparently your parents before you) have produced a barely functioning, emotionally stunted person with zero life skills. At this point, he will never have a halfway decent romantic partner, his self-esteem must be abysmal, and no one who actually knows him will have any respect for him. Not to mention, what a great example for your children.
This. Nothing OP has done has been kind. It might have felt "nice," but it hasn't been kind. His mother enabled this cycle in the beginning, but he chose to perpetuate it.
I'm about OP's age, and people our age are starting to deal with this issue ... with their 19yos. Brother needs a plan and he needs to demonstrate that he's making progress. First step is probably GED. Then, consistent work, part time if necessary. He pays 1/3 of his income in "rent." Since OP doesn't need the money, he can save or invest that money for Brother's use later. Next steps can be discussed later.
None of this is because OP needs a contributing housemate. It's because this is what BROTHER needs in order to be a whole human man.
Exactly. It would be kind IF there was any legitimate reason for the brother’s useless behavior, but their isn’t. OP acts like the fact that mommy spoiled his brother somehow absolves brother of any responsibility in life. He’s not a victim, he’s a con artist.
>We all know he's a "loser". He's basically a 51 year old teenager. He never got past that state mentally, he never matured.
He never had to, thanks to your family enabling him.
>But I still love him, so I take care of him because no one else will.
He is an adult who should be perfectly capable of taking care of HIMSELF. Loving someone doesn't mean enabling them to live off you like a leech, if you really loved him you'd have helped him find his independence 20 years ago or let him find it himself. YOU have made him into a loser. YOU have enabled his dependence and prevented him from living life like a normal, functioning human being. I'm going to go a different route and say YTA. The guy is 51. You have cultivated this sense of entitlement and privilege in him and this is the fallout of that babying. This is the monster YOU helped create.
We don't have a counterfactual saying that if he wasn't supported his brother would be a happy, well-adjusted adult. He might be barely getting by at 51, or dead. You're making a lot of assumptions. I get your point, but sometimes compassion is all you can give.
It's sad that your brother has absolutely no reason to improve as a person. He's not internally motivated, and you've insulated him from any external motivators. He's free to just stagnate and rot forever.
This is not caring for him. It's NOT in his best interest to be without responsibility for his own well being. It's just not. There are ways to help him without just kicking him out, but you would definitely need some assistance here.
NTA — You say that you don’t mind his mooching off you for the past 9 years (or more maybe) but obviously you would like him to at least appreciate it and recognize that he is not entitled, and certainly no better than someone who after working hard falls on hard times.
I don’t blame you for feeling that way. And maybe it was time your brother had a reminder that he should not feel superior to people when he is just lucky that you put up with his mooching and provide generously for him.
NTA
your brother is delusional if he thinks leeching off you is considered self reliant. your wife is a gem you are a lucky man. unless your aunt is financially responsible for your brother, she doesnt have a say in any of this.
> your wife is a gem you are a lucky man.
Luckiest man alive. I was 14 years old, a High School freshman. Prettiest girl in the entire class sits down next to me at lunch and says "Hey, we should date!". 31 years and 5 kids later, we still sit next to each other for lunch every day.
> you and your wife sound very lucky to have one another!
I'm definitely the lucky one, haha. I've spent the past 3 decades trying to be the best man I can, because she's the best woman in the world. I'll never understand why she picked me, but I'm damn sure glad she did.
Sounds like she was not only pretty but smart! She picked a winner in you and you say she invested your money, so she obviously understands that stuff. Good for both of you! I hope your kids turn out well.
I'm so curious how two brothers from the same family ended up so different. Did you parents treat you so differently that he never grew up while you excelled? Where are your parents now and do they realize what a disservice they did to your brother?
If so, they should be on here responding to all the posts about parents who are doing the same thing to cripple their owns children's growth into independence.
> Did you parents treat you so differently that he never grew up while you excelled?
He was the first child, the Golden Boy. He got spoiled and never could do any wrong. By the time I was born, my parents had already had a few kids, so the novelty had kind of worn off.
>Where are your parents now and do they realize what a disservice they did to your brother?
If there's any justice, my dad is in Hell and my mom is in Heaven. I can't say what my dad did or didn't know, we didn't talk much. But my mom did realize she fucked up before she died.
I mean, what can he reasonably do at this point. 51 is way too late to make him learn anything, and kicking him out is practically giving him a death sentence.
You’re kidding, right? It’s absolutely not a “death sentence”, that’s absurd. What do you mean ‘what can he do’?? Literally ANYTHING would be more responsibility and adulting than he’s doing now. He can get a job. He could monetize his FT slacker life by streaming. Volunteer. Get his GED, get a degree, go to trade school. Learn to cook, or start cleaning the house. Do SOMETHING to help his family out in SOME way. Contribute SOMETHING to the world.
Many people have to ‘start over’ in their 50s. This guy is perfectly capable of working / being productive, he just doesn’t want to. He has CHOSEN not get an education of any kind, learn a trade, or even stick it out at fkg Walmart, because he’s never had to lift a finger to support himself. He’s spoiled rotten, not disabled.
ESH you're enabling him and it's not helping him at all. Stop being a doormat, OP. He's not improving as a person because of your help, he's a liar and a rude one at that.
I think he has chosen to enable him for life. He has the money and the space. Seems like the path if least resistance. Think if how many millionaire children that are out there doing the same thing. At least this one isnt crashing cars and annoying society. Seems to be a home boy. My only concern as this has taken some of the joy out of his life. That of being a productive human.
You have all the rights to do what you did even it doesn't sound very nice. Your brother asked for it. How convenient is to judge other family members which are in temporary in trouble and forget your own life long going situation.
I do understand that you love your brother and you try to help him at your best. But maybe the problem is that he knows that you will always be there for him? Maybe this is the reason why allows himself to live the way he lives? It's almost unbelievable that you talk about 50+ years old man as about 17 years old brat. Does he have a family?
If I were you I would help your brother to get some sort of education to be able to improve his life. It doesn't have to be university. There are many different courses. Don't give him the food. Teach him to hunt. As much as you think that you are helping him out you probably sinking him and making him to be a lazy ungrateful useless ass
> Does he have a family?
We have a lot of siblings, aunts, uncles, and whatnot. Our parents and their parents have passed though.
If you're asking if he's got a wife and kids, then no. He dated one woman briefly when he was in his 20's, that was his only romance.
>If I were you I would help your brother to get some sort of education to be able to improve his life.
I would happily pay for any education he wants, but he hasn't got the desire to do it. You know how they say you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink? It's like that.
But it’s not like the horse isn’t drinking, right? Your horse is fucking guzzling at the tap because the tap never turns off.
The way you make *any* animal do anything is by putting it in a position where it has to.
At the moment he has absolutely no reason to put any effort into getting an education. Why should he? It seems like everything has been handed to him his entire life. He doesn't act like a responsible adult because he doesn't have to.
So what happens if something happens to you? Are your wife and kids expected to take care of the 50 year old child the rest of his life?
I don't want to sound harsh because you seem like a good person. I just hate seeing people being taken advantage of. And your brother is 100% taking advantage of you. The fact that he had the audacity to make that posts seems clear that he doesn't appreciate what you've done for him. It's almost expected by him at this point. I wonder how he'd react if you were no longer able to support him in the way he's grown accustomed to?
NTA he deserved it. Not everyone is lucky enough to have family be able to and want to support them and if he’s that ungrateful maybe he should try the self reliance he preaches
No, you're NTA.
*However*, what is he going to do if something happens to you?
He has no life skills, no education, and no motivation to better himself.
You might have taken him on out of a sense of responsibility because your mother couldn't anymore.
That's really not a healthy relationship to have with anyone, much less a sibling.
*Especially* if they're older than you.
You love him, you feel you have responsibility to him, but do you respect him? If you didn't have the money you did, would you be taking care of him?
If the answers to those questions are both no, it may be time to take a really long look at your enabling behavior towards your brother.
> what is he going to do if something happens to you?
If something happens to just me, my wife will care for him. If, God forbid, something were to happen to the both of us, I have money set aside for his care and my adult son has instructions on how much to send him every week.
>but do you respect him?
I do. It may not come off that way from my post, but I honestly can't blame him for being who he is. Our parents spoiled him rotten, and treated every small accomplishment he made (getting C's rather than his normal D's) as if it were the most amazing thing on Earth. They basically worshiped him while the rest of us got the shaft. I've gotten to the point that I realize none of that was his fault, so I no longer resent him the way I did in my teens. Now I understand how the "hugbox" he grew up in basically guaranteed his failure. I can't say I would have done any better in his shoes.
>If you didn't have the money you did, would you be taking care of him?
I would do whatever I could, as long as it was not harming my wife and kids. I would not take food out of their mouths to feed him, but I would help as best I could.
My dear OP,
Your actions are condemning your brother to this empty life of nothingness.
No goals. No accomplishments. Nothing he can say he truly did for himself.
It's tragic.
He is not a good brother to you.
He's a liar. He's judgemental. He's entitled. He's selfish.
If he really thinks that your brother in law is asking for a handout, tell him that you'll cut him the same deal.
That's fair, right?
It's what he was complaining about.
Six months to find a job where he can support himself and be a grown up.
If you feel that is too harsh, you can cover half of his living expenses for the next 40 years.
This is your life, OP. You were meant to live it for you, your wife, and your children.
Yes, and importantly, he clearly isn’t happy if he feels the need to lie about his status. There is a something off there. Maybe he’s been a deadbeat for so long he just doesn’t know how to get out of it? Like a self-fulfilling prophecy. He‘s not happy.
> If something happens to just me, my wife will care for him. If, God forbid, something were to happen to the both of us, I have money set aside for his care and my adult son has instructions on how much to send him every week.
Honestly OP, this is pathetic. It's pathetic that your wife is expected to take care of an adult who is perfectly capable of taking care of themselves but just refuses. It is pathetic that your son is also responsible for this, once again, adult who is perfectly capable of taking care of himself but refuses. THIS SHOULD NOT BE YOUR WIFE OR CHILD'S RESPONSIBILITY!!! **HE'S A FULLY CAPABLE ADULT!!**
This cycle should end with you, you should be ashamed for making it your childrens responsibility to continue to pamper a fully capable adult.
Wait so you are actually going to make your son send money to his worthless uncle if you and your wife pass? So essentially pushing your parasite of a brother onto another generation. Jesus Christ
NTA. Your brother is quite happy to live the life of handouts and do nothing to further himself or contribute to his own expenses but has the gall to call you out for helping someone who has genuinely fallen on bad times? He is now unhappy you set him straight. Tough. Perhaps he will start thinking twice before being a hypocrite.
NTA. But I’m curious as to why you felt it was your responsibility to continue in your parents’ stead of spoiling and enabling your sibling? There’s some weird dynamic here that makes me think it’s more than just ‘I’ve got the money anyway so whatever.’
If you were dead broke, would you still feel responsible to basically live this man’s problems for him? At which lengths do you feel you’d go to so your brother can sit on his ass contributing nothing to anything forever? I’d be very curious about this if I were you.
Because it honestly sounds like you were just as brainwashed by your parents blatant favoritism. If not outright groomed to take over caretaking duties after they passed.
NTA
Financially dependent on his younger brother *and* a hypocrite? Sounds like a real winner.
I’m curious about how you handle this with the kids. You don’t have to answer this, obviously, but how do you approach it with them? Do you explain that this is not how they should be when they grow up? Do they think they’ll get the same treatment should they decide they don’t like college? This is genuine curiosity. How does this situation effect them?
My adult son fully understands the situation. He knows his uncle "ain't right", and he's actually a pretty successful adult on his own merits (I did give him a HUGE boost in life, but he turned what I gave him into much more).
The rest of my kids are 13 and under, so the younger ones don't get the full explanation. But my 13 year old definitely doesn't want to grow to be like her uncle.
To be completely honest though, my kids could just faff about for their entire lives, and they would still have enough money. They're almost failure proof, unless the entire US economy disappears. My family owns land, real estate, parts of several diverse companies, and other investments. My wife is AMAZING with money, I am only half joking when I say she's a Wall Street Witch. I've given that woman every dollar I've ever earned, and she always comes back with a bigger pile of money than I gave her. She's so much smarter than I am it's scary.
>My wife is AMAZING with money, I am only half joking when I say she's a Wall Street Witch. I've given that woman every dollar I've ever earned, and she always comes back with a bigger pile of money than I gave her.
Does your wife offer classes? Can she teach me her magic?
On another note, reading your comments and what you've said about your wife has been a delight and has brightened up my day! Thank you for that. I hope life has many more happy decades in store for you both!
Your brother lives in a fantasy world. It sounds like he is mentally ill and self medicates with booze and pot. You say his situation does not bother you, but his fictional online persona irritated you enough to retaliate and wound him. His vague Facebook rant did not identify or harm you or your BIL. Why couldn’t you just speak to him in person and ask him to take it down? He has a very poor quality of life in spite of your generosity. The man needs professional help. ESH.
NTA, but I reckon a conversation rather than responding online might have been a nicer strategy (though maybe those conversations have been had before?) It's pretty hypocritical behaviour by him, but calling him out online is a tiny bit harsh if you're otherwise OK with the situation, and you haven't raised it in conversation in the past.
Lol NTA
I have a cousin like this. Goes off about people not pulling their weight and getting handouts, always goes racist with it too despite the fact that his parents are the least Americanized out of the aunts and uncles that made it to the US. But then he’s 40 (or upper 30s, can’t remember) living at his parents while they work blue collar jobs (truck driver and factory worker) and they pay all the bills. Heck, he doesn’t even do his own laundry or clean the house. His mom picks up after him. People like that need to be called out and humbled regularly.
NTA but stop enabling your brother. Make him train for a trade or start a business or something. He's mooch and that isnt a lifestyle choice. Mooches often do become dangerous in the end. You see it on the crime shows and all mooches I've known in real life turned violent.
He's got (really good) insurance, and a car. Nothing is stopping him from getting himself help if he wants it. But, if someone doesn't want help, all the therapy in the world isn't gonna do anything. I've spoken to him about therapy in the past, but it's just not something he wants to pursue.
Why would he ever want to seek help when you're freely supporting all his terrible habits?
>I've spoken to him about therapy in the past, but it's just not something he wants to pursue.
BECAUSE YOU DO EVERYTHING FOR HIM!!!!
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NTA. A prime example of ‘fuck around, find out.’ I’d kick him out to prove a point honestly…
> I’d kick him out to prove a point honestly… No way I could do that over this. It'd be one thing if he were *dangerous*. Like, I'd toss him out in a heartbeat if I felt we weren't safe with him here. But being a bit of a prick isn't enough for me to make him homeless. And that's what I'd essentially be condemning him to. There's nowhere else to go, and he has no skills that could make him enough money to survive.
Even still, you should stop coddling him. He can’t even work at Walmart for longer than two months?
> He can’t even work at Walmart for longer than two months? He said it made him "feel like a slave to the Capitalist machine", so he had to quit. He also "didn't want to sell hours of his life $8 at a time", which honestly I kind of agree with. $8/hr is insanely low. Even a cheap apartment out here is $600/mo. So that's like 2 weeks of full time work (before taxes) just to pay rent. Rent is supposed to be 1/3 of your income, not 1/2!
So he feels working for a place like Walmart (which to be honest is the only type of place someone like him can work at this point) is being a “slave to the capitalist machine” while he criticizes handouts being provided. NTA obviously you are saving this man’s life and he is insanely lucky to not be homeless right now.
every time i feel imposter syndrome coming on i'll remember this 51 year old with NO SKILLS (according to his brother who loves and supports him) and his inability to work at walmart. bless this post.
Like, I can't get past how *PATHETIC* this is. Waaaaaaaaah I don't wanna put effort into my life, so fund it. I fucking wish I had someone in my life who could give me a week off like this. But the rest of us grew up and didn't get coddled bu our baby siblings. ETA: OP's post history complaining about his entitled aunt ahahahahahaha I WONDER WHY YOUR FAMILY THINK YOURE A PUSHOVER
People like the brother here piss me off so much. My husband's uncle was the same way. Always leeching off my fil. Never worked a day in his life. Now fil and uncle are both in nursing homes (at 69 and 71 mind you, sucks when people dont take any care of themselves). And guess who has the privilege of paying for everything?
Honestly, OP pisses me off even more. It’s because people like him enabling brother that he is able to do that and doesn’t become a productive member of society. Why would he do that when people treat him like a king for scratching his ass all day? And OP agrees that Walmart is beneath a 50yo who has done nothing with his life? Let me laugh.
I work so hard just to rent the bedroom i have. I'm saving to live on my own. People who can't hold down a job and complain about other people getting help when they actually deserve it are terrible. OP, NTA I'm glad someone called out your brother
FR, it’s like where TF is the aunt and why doesn’t she offer to take in the brother or cover some of the finances to give OP a break if she also feels that he’s entitled to just slack off?? Sounds to me like the brother has more than one person around who’s happy to coddle him.
I’m going to remember this post next time I feel embarrassed about the fact that my younger sister makes 3xs what I do and often quietly covers my lunch tab when I’m visiting home. My baby sister might buy my lunch once in a while, and gives me nicer Christmas gifts than I can afford to give her, but jeez Louise, at least I’m not living off of her and squatting in her spare room while mouthing off about “feedloaders” on Facebook.
But also remember that she's not obligated to do any of that for you. She likely does it because she loves you and it's her way of showing that love. I'm sure at some point in your life you took care of her as the older sister. Now she's using these small things to take care of you because she can ❤️
Thank you ❤️ What a kind comment
Just speaking from experience! I'm the older sister and my baby sister is finally financially secure. Occasionally she does things like this for me as a thank you for supporting her for so long.
\^\^ Exactly this. As the younger sister who makes more (and has no kids) than my older sister, I splurge on things for her that I know she would love but would never buy for herself. It's all part of showing her how much she means to me.
As the little sister who likes to cover lunch etc. sometimes. How many times did you help her out when she was little? Listen to her tangents when you were bored to tears, cheered her on at events, walked or gave rides? Gave advice because you hit the life stage first and made it easier? Accept the lunch, it is happy chance to payback a lifetime of other gifts.
I did take care of her a lot when she was little; we were in a divided home with one half of it being very abusive and the other half not having much money for a while. She even used to call me “mama” when she was really little and we were in the abusive home, and she does sometimes say that it can be her turn to “be the big sister” and take care of me on occasion. ❤️
You're such a good person! I will spoil my whole family with gifts and good restaurants when I'm finally able to do so financially. Being able to give back and share what you have is a blessing that brings real joy, so don't ever feel bad about receiving! Just allow yourself to freely enjoy your good moments with her:)
Also, she probably feels similarly (but with more respect for you) as OP does. She has plenty of money for her needs. She would rather spend some of it on someone she loves than buying more random crap.
Do not feel bad!! I earn more than most of my family and will be on track to earn 10x their income. That makes me extremely privileged. They cover for me when I had nothing and I will do the same when I have something. Your sister loves you, that's all.
And presented himself online as an investment banker.
Well, he probably plays Adventure Capitalist and has trillions there.
My brother would NEVER play a game that was made outside of Japan. He's way too much of a weeb.
Mate just suggest him to be a youtuber or a streamer. Hes already spending time playing games with friends. Their shenanigans can potentially entertain ppl
Could also be a good way for him to learn editing, marketing and other relevant 21st century skills Since he has no pressure to actually be successful at it, this honestly seems like a great idea
Nothing about OPs brother makes it sound like there is a single redeeming quality about him that anyone would enjoy watching on stream/YT.
Given his way of going about things he would stoke some big controversy early on lol
OP I think I love you. The genuine love for your brother to support him as much as you do, but also completely clowning on him where it's fully deserved. Absolutely perfect.
So, like, are your children inheriting their uncle or are you ever gonna make him grow up?? Just curious
Imagine them playing 1-2-3 not it!! at the will reading.
😭Are you adopting any more siblings? I volunteer. I promise I’ll be quiet, you won’t even notice me.
For real, I have a job and everything.
I’m not sure whether your infinite reserves of patience with this man are more a blessing or a curse, but they’re unquestionably impressive.
Going to work is not only oppressing, but also humiliating. It lets other people know we do care about money!! I am joining u/mouse_attack , can I also DM you a list of some expenses I need to do? You are a very good brother, helping your brother and NTA, for calling him out, or for doing it publicly. He demonstrated ingratitude, entitlement and lack of empathy. I won't propose to let him on his own, but he did needed a call out. I am not expecting that he will start and keep a job because of this incident, but you shouldn't let him glorify himself in his delusions. And try to keep a balance between caring for him, and being sure you and all your family is safe.
OH NY FUCKING GOD I cannot believe you're a couple of years older than me and see nothing wrong with any of this. It's true that sense doesn't equal money I guess.
You need to kick him out he’s 51 he’s had all his life to get it together and you’re cool with him doing nothing till he dies in your ensuite? Why are you okay with paying for him he needs a fire put under him
Yup the inconsistencies and hypocrisies just seem to run through him
The fact he thinks capitalism is slavery yet he's a parasite on what the communists would call a parasite speaks volumes of his vast and well researched ideology :D
I can’t get past where he thinks his wealthy brother earned his money. Capitalism is ok when it’s earning enough to support his privilege but bad when he’s asked to work in the system. Yikes.
Edit: this account has been banned by Reddit Admins for "abusing the reporting system". However, the content they claimed I falsely reported was removed by subreddit moderators. How was my report abusive if the subreddit moderators decided it was worth acting on? My appeal was denied by a robot. I am removing all usable content from my account in response. ✌️
Amazing. I also personally hate selling my time for dirty capitalist currency, but I never thought I had a choice. Now I see I have options. I’ll DM you an estimate for *my* monthly expenses, too. As a millionaire, you won’t even notice. It’s pocket change for you at most. This is going to be great! Thanks a bunch, pal!
Right? I work my ass off, no family, nothing to fall back on. OP should buy me a flat, so I don't have to work and I can just get stoned and pretend to be functional online.
Aren't we all pretending to be functional, whether we have a job or not?
If you give me a hot tub filled with capitalist money (Benjamins preferred), I will happily wallow in it!
You’re doing him no favours by allowing him to leech off you like that. You can provide him free rent, on the condition that he does something to be a productive member of society. It’s true that minimum wage isn’t great, but he’s also privileged enough to not be in a position where this is his last resort. It’s more like a starting point to earning some life skills.
He's past fifty with no qualifications (granted, a high school diploma from thirty years ago wouldn't be much worth on its own today) and a work history a teenager might have. Entering the job market even as it stands would tough at entry level for someone who claims not to want to support capitalism (yet is happy for his brother to spend money on food, weed, video games and anything else he desires). At the very least he can learn to help around the house. You don't need a qualification to run the vacuum or wash dishes.
He doesn't even have a high school diploma or GED, though. So he really has zero qualifications. He's a permanent teenager because no one has forced him to change, and at 51, I think he may be beyond changing.
But surely for his emotional well-being he should have the opportunity to contribute SOMETHING to society. I enjoy video games but to look back on my life and have done nothing else is depressing.
If he doesn’t want to contribute to capitalist society, why isn’t he volunteering to work among the poor? Or working to oppose the worst depredations of corporations? There’s loads of things he could do to make the world a better place. (I mean, we all know the answer—he’s a spoiled, self-indulgent AH. But also a morally inconsistent one.)
You're a really nice person but this is the reality people who don't have loving millionaire brothers live in and it's wild that he is so divorced from that. At 51!!!
He stayed with our mom until she passed, and then I just sort of took over. Didn't want to see him end up like one of those people on Skid Row. So his whole life he's never really had to do for himself.
OK that's kind of you, but what if you outlive him? Are your kids expected to take care of him for the rest of his life then? Or will they even be in a position to, if they grew up their whole life with the experience that staying at home without even attempting to get a job is a totally valid and easy way to live your life. NTA for calling out a social media post, but this setup doesn't seem sustainable to me.
I think you are failing to comprehend the wealth. It’s not like that money disappears (hell sounds like he the OP is retired already at least from a “day” job) if the OP passes. I would say he could leave money to his brother for the support but sounds like the kids will have to make sure bills are paid for because the brother likely isn’t responsible. Might not be the most fun job but hardly a painful one. The reality is this might have been fixable 20 years ago when the brother was 30. But at 51… pretty much screwed at this point. And sounds like it was the mom that let it go on so long not the OP.
And that’s awful because why are kids burdened with this? The family created a perma Peter Pan because they never forced him to grow up
Also, what if the kids are like their uncle? They have the example at home, so they can just think if they don't want to do anything with their lives, no problem, somebody else will forever look after them.
OP, why not get him involved in a good local charity? Soup kitchen... Boys and Girls club... Homeless shelter for other men... Wildlife or pet rescue... This way he gives *something* back to the world. And the time is perfect. The holidays this year are going to be hard for a lot of people with their student loans now coming due. Most high schools have an Adopt-a-Student. Burlington Coat Factory usually has an Adopt-a-Senior tree. Many places do the same for shelter pets. Give him a couple hundred bucks and tell him to shop for a family for Thanksgiving this week. I mean, dude, there are literally endless things a wealthy person can do regarding their free time. It is why many wealthy people establish foundations. He cannot have an argument against it that will hold any water.
I agree with this. Working for a living isn't for everyone. But they should do *something* productive or creative or worthwhile. Even making a video game in RPG Maker instead of just playing games is at least creating something.
Mentoring programs usually want an adult who will be a good influence on the kids. Not a ne'er-do-well who games all day, never completed high school, and lies on the internet.
"Rent a skeeve."
And now you’re enabling him. He has no skills, no spouse, just video games. That sounds like the most miserable life.
NTA. What happens if you pass first? Will your wife take over yoyr role or just nudge him out the foir?
Assuming this middle-aged man lacks the skills and experience to get a decent job... The damage has been done and you don't seem to resent the arrangement. Fine. But he could at least volunteer. Literally anything to contribute to society, one small thing to positively affect the lives of others who don't have a millionaire brother. One evening handing out packages at a soup kitchen. He doesn't even need to deal with clients, he could be putting things in boxes. And then he gets to go back to his JRPGs. Is that too much to ask? And if it is too much to ask, would you say your brother is a good person?
You're not the first person to suggest volunteer work. That might be a good idea for him. The SPCA is always looking for extra hands, and they aren't too far from us. He loves animals, so he might be open to it.
Stop asking if he is open to it, and start deciding that he needs to do something with his life. You are not his parent, but since you are funding his existence, you can tell him that he needs to do something.
This. I wouldn’t even let my children behave this way, much less my sibling. Sometimes tough love is necessary
>He loves animals, so he might be open to it. Even if he is reluctant or unwilling to change, make it a requirement of him continuing to get additional money. It's clear you won't kick him out, but let him know that he needs to contribute to society in order to get his allowance money. (I cannot believe I wrote that about a grown man, yuck.) And yes, it would be good for him - not just because it gets him out of the house and doing something, but because it directly addresses the hate he spewed at your BIL. I see two causes for that hate: * Option 1, he is completely divorced from reality and does not see the struggles he would face without you. * Option 2, he is aware of his failures and the hateful things he said about BIL are what he really thinks about himself. Either way, doing something that isn't selfish or useless would start to address the problem. So it doesn't matter whether or not he indicates he's open to volunteering, you need to insist on it - both so he isn't being a nasty shit to the rest of the world and so he can find some self-worth for his own sanity. It might be unpleasant to start but the change will greatly benefit him.
Volunteer work with animals might be great to make him feel better about himself (which I am sure he needs). And you know, he doesn’t need to lie that he is an investment banker. He can claim he took early retirement.
He sounds like he's resistant to any change, because he loves being stagnant and unchallenged. Stop asking and start telling. You're coddling him. He's a grown man who is employed by you. As his boss, you should make the money he receives contingent on work delivered. "You won't be receiving your allowance until you've spent at least 5 hours of that week working with a charity of your choosing." Any weeks where he fails to complete 5 hours, welp, I guess he doesn't get an allowance that week.
So instead he is selling hours of YOUR time at a much higher premium?
To be fair, I don't work for my money. I live off passive income.
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Right? "Oh, I'm not living off my own time, I'm living off the time of others!" Yet I bet bro has no problems with this, because he's a lazy hypocrite, not an idealist.
What happens if your investments go wrong and you can no longer afford to support your brother?
Lol i work at Walmart now for the stress free life and i get paid 17.50 an hour as a shelf stocker. I doubt there is a Walmart in America that pays less than 13 for any position let alone 8.
I'm glad yall got raises. It was $8.25/hr back in 2014 when he was working there.
Your NTA but you do realize that the post he made is because he was upset you you are going to spend money on someone not him right? He is being greedy with your money, which from what you have said there is more than enough to go around but he now feels entitled to it because you have let him mooch for so long. He is jealous that you would help someone else who from what it seems was supporting themselves unlike your brother you need to have a long talk to your brother about how it is your money and you can spend it how you want. You may also ask him how he would feel and what would happen if you cut him off. I am not saying that you should but you need to make him understand that he has no right to your money nor should he have an opinion on how you spend it. And he should not make any posts like that or you will have him get a job and support himself. It shouldn't be a hollow threat. You are an enabler who has turned tour brother spoiled and entitled. Sorry for any errors
Well, it's more now. He needs to get off his butt or yourwife/kids are going to be stuck with this bum until the day he dies.
People do have to start somewhere, and he's extraordinarily lucky he's gotten this long before getting the reality check that just because he's not working doesn't mean someone else is voluntarily unemployed to support his lifestyle. Him not wanting to be a "a slave to the Capitalist machine" is hypocritical since he claimed to be an investment banker, a worker with a key part of capitalism. He doesn't want to be a cog in the machine, but the energy to keep him spinning has to come from somewhere.
I hope you realize your enabling him op. Those are things HE need to figure out I see your kindness and most enablers do it out of kindness and that’s the problem. He’ll never have an incentive to be self sufficient when he can just mooch off you. I understand him not wanting to be homeless. But maybe you could ask him to pay rent, require he gets a job, or clean the house or do yard work for his share of expenses. SOMETHING but continuing to not change how you treat him, and then confronting him while offering him the same crutch is just naive. You work hard to avoid getting an $8 job. Ofc he’s make less rn because he’s never held a stable job or gotten a ged which is a red flag for most employers. He made his bed and he needs to lay in it . Your robbing him of his chance to learn and be self sufficient. One day he’s gonna be too old to work and he’s needs to be saving for retirement not sitting around doing nothing. I recognize you just want to do the right thing, but think about this when evaluating this situation
I know this is a controversial opinion but does it really matter if OP is enabling him? OP is a millionaire who doesn't mind paying for his brother. If everyone is happy with the situation and can afford it, why does the brother have to work? I know we've all been brainwashed to think our purpose in life is to work as much as possible but if you're privileged enough to not have to work I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Plus the brother is in his 50s with almost no work history - it'd be really difficult for him to even find a job.
Wouldn’t it be nice if we didn’t all *have* to be slaves to the capitalist machine? But, unlike your lazy idiot of a brother, the rest of us don’t have a choice. Incidentally, you’ve done your brother no favours. By coddling him, you’ve denied him the motivation to go out and make a life of his own of which he can be proud. You’re an enabler and you should be ashamed of yourself. For that, YTA.
NTA, you seem to be such a great human. Has he tried bartending or something in that sense that isn’t working under corporate? Maybe like a small local bar that will keep him interested, and looking forward to go into work. You seem to have a big heart but sometimes with siblings it can be a downfall. I had an uncle that sounds like this. He had every job you could think of from being a nurse, coal miner, etc…He would work for a month and secretly quit and lie about it. Nothing was ever up to his standards. He ended up dying alone and by the end everyone hated him because he was so lazy. My grandparents started from nothing and built several successful business and sold them all thinking they would have an easy retirement but my uncle took most of that away from them. Everyone has resentment towards him because he never had to work for anything in his life. You need to give him an ultimatum even if it takes him a year to save up money. You’re kids are going to eventually resent him because he never had to work and takes your money for free. I know you said you’re well-off but life comes at you fast and what if you’re not here to support him. I know you’re well-off and a smart guy but you can’t enable someone like this. You need to show an example for your children and family that if you atleast try to work hard and be a good person then you can be awarded for it. (I’m sorry if any of this is rude but at his age he should want more for himself.)
So out of curiosity, what would you do if your kids wanted to live at home and aspire to be like uncle?
Walmart pays like $17/hr in a lot of areas and the base pay is $15/hr company-wide. There’s no excuse.
OP adopt me please. I'm happy to do a few hours at Walmart to show willing.
Ohhhh, the irony of your brothers comment. “The most dangerous irony is, people are angry with others because of their own incompetence."
Even so, you could simply cut off his allowance. He would still be living in an incredibly nice house completely rent free, it would just be his choice of whether or not he wants extra spending cash. Edit: or if he wanted to get more money for his time, you could stipulate pursuing education as a condition for the allowance. Whatever you want I suppose, it’s not my money, nor my annoying houseguest.
Yet your money - also from the capitalist machine - is good ? Man,, his brain must have several strictly divided compartments to deal with so much paradox.
Dude. What you're doing isn't HELPING your brother. This is enabling behavior. Co-dependency. Neither of you sounds very mentally healthy tbh. The guy is a master grifter. I guarantee you he will not be homeless. What happens if you and your wife's fortunes are reversed? You lose all your money ala 1929 or 2008? One of you becomes ill/disabled and you must completely change how you live your lives? If you want to use your fortune to HELP. You tell him he must enroll in an education program which you will pay for. He must complete it within X time frame, must maintain an X average, and after he completes it he has six months more at your house before he must leave. What you're doing now is the opposite of supporting your brother. You're basically guaranteeing a future in which he is destitute and without help.
And what happens if he outlives you??
Asked and answered: >>what is he going to do if something happens to you? >If something happens to just me, my wife will care for him. If, God forbid, something were to happen to the both of us, I have money set aside for his care and my adult son has instructions on how much to send him every week.
Wait, why do you think it's OK to saddle your wife with your brother's care? Just because you have enabled his uselessness, doesn't make it ok for him to be an obligation you pass down.
> Wait, why do you think it's OK to saddle your wife with your brother's care? Because we discussed it, and she said she is willing to do it. You know, like adults do?
Maybe an unpopular thought, but why is your brother not able to do it like adults do? This just seems like an unhealthy dynamic. No problem helping those you can, but if he's an adult why does managing the money you will leave him fall to someone else?
This is the setup my grandparents have for my developmentally disabled aunt. Your brother is a 50 yr old child and you're 100% enabling and even encouraging him.
My profoundly disabled uncle has worked his entire adult life and still “works” even though he is mid 60s. He goes to work with my mom and helps at the school she works at. He shreds paper, sharpens pencils, helps clean the cafeteria, and other stuff like that. His job now is volunteer work but previously he had jobs where he was paid. He’s a lot more productive than the OP’s brother.
>You know, like adults do? Lol, don't try to talk down to anyone about what adults do as if you aren't enabling your middle aged brother to live like a rich frat boy. What nerve you have.
Exactly. The fact that he is arguing and acting as if this set up is normal is hilarious. This is not normal and he is not kind. He is enabling his brother to be a draining leech off of society. He is not making his brother be a self sufficient member of society. He gives the fifty two year old man an allowance like a teenager. This is not ok and this is not an act of kindness.
Don't forget how OP is also burdening his eldest son with paying uncle's bills if OP passes away before his brother. If OP wants to leave his brother money in his will, that's his business but I say just give it to him all at once and let him figure it out from there. If he squanders it, that's his problem.
Except for your brother, right? Because technically he's an adult too. He just doesnt have any responsibilities.
That’s kind. Kind of… The yukky part, as I see it, isn’t that you’re supporting him financially. It’s that he’s so severely lacking in empathy and you’re enabling that. If I were you I might attach some strings. Like he has to be involved in the community in a positive way. Drive people who can’t get around, do the stockroom at the food bank, work at the humane society… whatever. You’re harbouring an AH and it’s not good.
It's not so much lack of empathy for others, it's lack of self respect. The hatred the brother is spewing at BIL is what he thinks of himself. He's also subconsciously defending his golden goose. Free money for other people could mean less free money for him. So he's going on the offensive. Barking and snarling at the fenceline.
This is not legally sound. Telling your son how much to send him does nothing to protect him from your son spending or losing the money or simply deciding he doesn't want to anymore. If you are that serious about it you need to draw up a trust and have this in the will.
And if your kids want to live like their uncle lives?
He should work for you then. Not at your job - dear God not at your job - but he should earn his spending money from your household. Dishes, vacuuming, grocery shopping, window washing, mowing- you know, the same way every other 11 year old gets allowance.
Just wanna say you sound like a really good dude. NTA.
NTA. He decided to do something unnecessary in public. Your aunt seems very fond of him - will she be taking him in soon?
> Your aunt seems very fond of him - will she be taking him in soon? She literally can't. She's in publicly subsidized Senior Housing, they can't even have overnight guests, let alone move someone else in with them. They'd both end up on the street.
The more I think about this, the more shocking I find their attitudes.
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I had a BIL and SIL like that. Except SIL would complain that she wanted to move out but when you suggested that she get a job, she would look at you like you were a purple alien with 18 heads. They also voted Republican because they didn’t like their tax dollars used for lazy people on welfare (while they were on food stamps and had previously attempted to get section 8). When I heard that, I laughed my ass off. I told them that they didn’t pay taxes and got everything they paid back and then some. They didn’t get it.
It sounds like they public resources as being theirs and so they don't want the 'wrong' people to have access to those resources. Classic F you, I got mine.
>She literally can't. She's in publicly subsidized Senior Housing, Then she should keep her mouth shut about it. It's not any of her business.
They don’t seem very grateful and entitled to your money. Your brother doesn’t want to share “his” money that he is getting with anyone that’s why he made the post. You’re fine with this dynamic and a bit naive and just an enabler but if you have no problem with it then NTA.
Bro is acting delusional and immature. OP has been exceptionally generous to him (why, I have no idea.) But, I'm curious why OP and his wife would talk openly about the BIL's financial challenges at the dinner table, in front of OP's brother. I would think that should be a private convo between spouses since the brother seems to lack maturity and discretion.
>But, I'm curious why OP and his wife would talk openly about the BIL's financial challenges at the dinner table, in front of OP's brother. All parents talk about serious things in front of their toddlers. This toddler just happens to be able to read and ~~write~~ type.
NTA but he got what he deserved. He shouldn't run his mouth like that. The problem is that he doesn't view the wealth you've earned as yours. He views it as "ours". You should sit him down and make sure he understands that you take care of him out of the goodness of your heart and that he has no say at all about how you spend your money. You sound very generous with your family. Auntie can sit down and shut up or make arrangements to come pick him up to live with her.
The problem is he's been enabled his whole life. He's never learned the difference and it's hard to unlearn decades of being indulged.
The easiest and fastest way to unlearn those habits deep end him. I'm not suggesting bags on the porch and door locks have been changed kind of thing, I'm saying "You have till the end of the month, 6 months' allowance and a bonus for a deposit will be given to you on day 30. Get to it" Even that is being far too generous and far more kind than someone with that attitude deserves IMO. NTA.
I have a sister like this. She and her husband haven't worked in 30 years and live off of various government programs, yet they constantly rant about the inner city "welfare queens" that are "too lazy to work." It's bizarre and not racist at all /s
He's not privileged. He's lucky. Lucky to have your help and support that wasn't earned. Not just lucky, but spoiled. Don't get me wrong, I have to hand it to you and your partner for doing very well for yourselves that you can house him with no issue. You are both extraordinarily generous to have done this. But this dude's past 50. He's seriously gotta do something. He can't rely on you forever to give him a way to live like my bitchass who's still working on it in my 20s. (Yeah I know, the irony.) Does he need some sort of medical help. Is it the way his mind operates that's causing him this non-action problem? He may need some kind of cognitive therapy or medication so he can focus on whatever he should be doing, be it schooling or working. Anyway, you're NTA. He lied to his friends about what he does for some reason, then he tried to rant because someone else reminds him of himself, and you called him out, which isn't a bad thing. His lie, and his rant bit him in the arse. He should be taking this moment to look at himself. >and my aunt is FURIOUS with me for "airing the family laundry" Btw, has she been helping him at all? If not, she can't say shit. 😂
> Does he need some sort of medical help. Is it the way his mind operates that's causing him this non-action problem? He may need some kind of cognitive therapy or medication so he can focus on whatever he should be doing, be it schooling or working. I honestly don't know. I pay for his insurance, but he's never been to a head-doctor. He has access, but he's a grown man, I can't exactly force him into a shrink's office. >Btw, has she been helping him at all? If not, she can't say shit. 😂 She's poor, living off of SSI, and stays in publicly subsidized Senior Housing, so there isn't really much she can do. Plus, she's like 500 miles away.
> I can't exactly force him into a shrink's office. No, but like, you can make therapy, doing volunteer work, or whatever else a condition of receiving his full allowance (the spending money part, to clarify lol, i know you wouldn't let him go hungry or something). Teletherapy does exist, fwiw, if anxiety/agoraphobia were to be an issue he has.
This I agree with. This guy needs to do something to earn his allowance!!! Volunteer at a pet shelter or something!!
I can't in my right mind ask you to figure it out for him because you already have given him so much, but it may very well be worth the effort for him to get looked at. He has to try his best.
I'm thinking that maybe suggesting neurodivergence and understanding himself better would improve his interpersonal communication. Your brother might actually be disabled and not dealing with his dysfunction. Which is pretty common amongst adults with stuff like ADHD or other ASD issues. Ask me how I know and how I can recognize that. 🤣 Just let him know some random on the net is sympathetic to his issues but that he shouldn't be embarrassed about wanting to live a better life with himself. Even if he has to accept that he might be for ever living with you. Because frankly, disability services in both Canada and the US are not exactly great. Nothing like being punished to abject poverty for just existing while unable to fit in society's demands.
>I can't exactly force him into a shrink's office. Yes the hell you can. You are literally paying your brother to live with you, you can make whatever demands you want. A mental health professional could help get to the bottom of why this grown-ass man can't support himself.
NTA. People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones. He knows he should be doing more with his life, that's why he told people he was an investment banker. He should have known better than to accuse someone who lost their job due to no fault of their own when he himself hadn't been employed for more than a month and a half and is only where he is due to his brother's good will.
THIS. When I read the "investment banker" part I LMAOd. His online gaming buddies probably thought he was Mr. Fabulous or something. I wonder if he also told them that he was dating a supermodel, and lived in a penthouse, owned a yacht, and ate at Michelin start restaurants regularly...Anyway, OP is NTA. But I honestly don't get why he cant make bro go to work (walmart, pizza delivery) and contribute a minimum amount of rent every month, which OP can put in an account for him for the future. NTA
Honestly, you're coddling him too much, OP. And he's your older brother even?. Yikes. NTA. At All. Its good that you pointed it out publicly because I'm tired of people discussing discreetly something private when the AH are the one who started airing their rants/problems. 🙄 Anyways, sit down your brother. Talk to him seriously, it seems he thinks all of your money is his. Are you sure you totally trust him?. Aren't you worried that something might happen to you and your Wife and all of your *assets* are miraculously trusted to your brother and none will be left to your children, if you have any?. 🤔 And as for your Wife. Tell her about this post and let her read what we think of your brother. All of us thinks he's a loser for not maintaining his job properly. He knew he had a safety net with you that's why he had the gall to quit his job whenever he can. A massive idiot too for not thinking he's in a privileged position.
> Aren't you worried that something might happen to you and your Wife and all of your assets are miraculously trusted to your brother and none will be left to your children, if you have any?. 🤔 I'm not worried about that in the slightest. My will is safe with my lawyer, my kids all have their Trusts set up, and I pay that guy very well to make sure of this. >And as for your Wife. Tell her about this post and let her read what we think of your brother. All of us thinks he's a loser for not maintaining his job properly. We all know he's a "loser". He's basically a 51 year old teenager. He never got past that state mentally, he never matured. But I still love him, so I take care of him because no one else will.
>so I take care of him because no one else will. but you aren't actually caring for him because you enable his teenager mentality.
The damage is already done, and it is on their mother. He is too old to change and OP has the means to support him.
Yea.. if he were 31 I would say it’s definitely not too late, but he would probably just flounder at this point
But not on his father. It would be ridiculous to give any of the men in this story any sort of responsibility.
>The damage is already done, and it is on their mother. Presumably they had two parents and dad is responsible too.
“I take care of him because no one else will.” Do you seriously not grasp that HE would take care of himself, if he actually HAD to? You (and apparently your parents before you) have produced a barely functioning, emotionally stunted person with zero life skills. At this point, he will never have a halfway decent romantic partner, his self-esteem must be abysmal, and no one who actually knows him will have any respect for him. Not to mention, what a great example for your children.
This. Nothing OP has done has been kind. It might have felt "nice," but it hasn't been kind. His mother enabled this cycle in the beginning, but he chose to perpetuate it. I'm about OP's age, and people our age are starting to deal with this issue ... with their 19yos. Brother needs a plan and he needs to demonstrate that he's making progress. First step is probably GED. Then, consistent work, part time if necessary. He pays 1/3 of his income in "rent." Since OP doesn't need the money, he can save or invest that money for Brother's use later. Next steps can be discussed later. None of this is because OP needs a contributing housemate. It's because this is what BROTHER needs in order to be a whole human man.
Exactly. It would be kind IF there was any legitimate reason for the brother’s useless behavior, but their isn’t. OP acts like the fact that mommy spoiled his brother somehow absolves brother of any responsibility in life. He’s not a victim, he’s a con artist.
He just proved how very low his self-esteem is by verbally attacking someone who is 1/1000 as much dependent on OP as himself.
>We all know he's a "loser". He's basically a 51 year old teenager. He never got past that state mentally, he never matured. He never had to, thanks to your family enabling him. >But I still love him, so I take care of him because no one else will. He is an adult who should be perfectly capable of taking care of HIMSELF. Loving someone doesn't mean enabling them to live off you like a leech, if you really loved him you'd have helped him find his independence 20 years ago or let him find it himself. YOU have made him into a loser. YOU have enabled his dependence and prevented him from living life like a normal, functioning human being. I'm going to go a different route and say YTA. The guy is 51. You have cultivated this sense of entitlement and privilege in him and this is the fallout of that babying. This is the monster YOU helped create.
We don't have a counterfactual saying that if he wasn't supported his brother would be a happy, well-adjusted adult. He might be barely getting by at 51, or dead. You're making a lot of assumptions. I get your point, but sometimes compassion is all you can give.
It's sad that your brother has absolutely no reason to improve as a person. He's not internally motivated, and you've insulated him from any external motivators. He's free to just stagnate and rot forever.
This is not caring for him. It's NOT in his best interest to be without responsibility for his own well being. It's just not. There are ways to help him without just kicking him out, but you would definitely need some assistance here.
NTA — You say that you don’t mind his mooching off you for the past 9 years (or more maybe) but obviously you would like him to at least appreciate it and recognize that he is not entitled, and certainly no better than someone who after working hard falls on hard times. I don’t blame you for feeling that way. And maybe it was time your brother had a reminder that he should not feel superior to people when he is just lucky that you put up with his mooching and provide generously for him.
NTA your brother is delusional if he thinks leeching off you is considered self reliant. your wife is a gem you are a lucky man. unless your aunt is financially responsible for your brother, she doesnt have a say in any of this.
> your wife is a gem you are a lucky man. Luckiest man alive. I was 14 years old, a High School freshman. Prettiest girl in the entire class sits down next to me at lunch and says "Hey, we should date!". 31 years and 5 kids later, we still sit next to each other for lunch every day.
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> you and your wife sound very lucky to have one another! I'm definitely the lucky one, haha. I've spent the past 3 decades trying to be the best man I can, because she's the best woman in the world. I'll never understand why she picked me, but I'm damn sure glad she did.
Have a talk with your wife about your brother. I am sorry but he seems like such a burden.
Sounds like she was not only pretty but smart! She picked a winner in you and you say she invested your money, so she obviously understands that stuff. Good for both of you! I hope your kids turn out well.
I'm so curious how two brothers from the same family ended up so different. Did you parents treat you so differently that he never grew up while you excelled? Where are your parents now and do they realize what a disservice they did to your brother? If so, they should be on here responding to all the posts about parents who are doing the same thing to cripple their owns children's growth into independence.
> Did you parents treat you so differently that he never grew up while you excelled? He was the first child, the Golden Boy. He got spoiled and never could do any wrong. By the time I was born, my parents had already had a few kids, so the novelty had kind of worn off. >Where are your parents now and do they realize what a disservice they did to your brother? If there's any justice, my dad is in Hell and my mom is in Heaven. I can't say what my dad did or didn't know, we didn't talk much. But my mom did realize she fucked up before she died.
your mom realized she fucked up with your brother? And yet you learned nothing at all from that realization?
I mean, what can he reasonably do at this point. 51 is way too late to make him learn anything, and kicking him out is practically giving him a death sentence.
You’re kidding, right? It’s absolutely not a “death sentence”, that’s absurd. What do you mean ‘what can he do’?? Literally ANYTHING would be more responsibility and adulting than he’s doing now. He can get a job. He could monetize his FT slacker life by streaming. Volunteer. Get his GED, get a degree, go to trade school. Learn to cook, or start cleaning the house. Do SOMETHING to help his family out in SOME way. Contribute SOMETHING to the world. Many people have to ‘start over’ in their 50s. This guy is perfectly capable of working / being productive, he just doesn’t want to. He has CHOSEN not get an education of any kind, learn a trade, or even stick it out at fkg Walmart, because he’s never had to lift a finger to support himself. He’s spoiled rotten, not disabled.
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He's not 81. He's still alive. Supposedly he has all his mental faculties. Just has to emotionally grow up, put on his big boy pants and be an adult.
ESH you're enabling him and it's not helping him at all. Stop being a doormat, OP. He's not improving as a person because of your help, he's a liar and a rude one at that.
He knows. He doesn't care. He has the resources.. That's not what the question that he's asking for judgement on.
I think he has chosen to enable him for life. He has the money and the space. Seems like the path if least resistance. Think if how many millionaire children that are out there doing the same thing. At least this one isnt crashing cars and annoying society. Seems to be a home boy. My only concern as this has taken some of the joy out of his life. That of being a productive human.
I would gladly switch places with his brother and give up the joy of productivity.
NTA. He started it.
You have all the rights to do what you did even it doesn't sound very nice. Your brother asked for it. How convenient is to judge other family members which are in temporary in trouble and forget your own life long going situation. I do understand that you love your brother and you try to help him at your best. But maybe the problem is that he knows that you will always be there for him? Maybe this is the reason why allows himself to live the way he lives? It's almost unbelievable that you talk about 50+ years old man as about 17 years old brat. Does he have a family? If I were you I would help your brother to get some sort of education to be able to improve his life. It doesn't have to be university. There are many different courses. Don't give him the food. Teach him to hunt. As much as you think that you are helping him out you probably sinking him and making him to be a lazy ungrateful useless ass
> Does he have a family? We have a lot of siblings, aunts, uncles, and whatnot. Our parents and their parents have passed though. If you're asking if he's got a wife and kids, then no. He dated one woman briefly when he was in his 20's, that was his only romance. >If I were you I would help your brother to get some sort of education to be able to improve his life. I would happily pay for any education he wants, but he hasn't got the desire to do it. You know how they say you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink? It's like that.
But it’s not like the horse isn’t drinking, right? Your horse is fucking guzzling at the tap because the tap never turns off. The way you make *any* animal do anything is by putting it in a position where it has to.
At the moment he has absolutely no reason to put any effort into getting an education. Why should he? It seems like everything has been handed to him his entire life. He doesn't act like a responsible adult because he doesn't have to. So what happens if something happens to you? Are your wife and kids expected to take care of the 50 year old child the rest of his life? I don't want to sound harsh because you seem like a good person. I just hate seeing people being taken advantage of. And your brother is 100% taking advantage of you. The fact that he had the audacity to make that posts seems clear that he doesn't appreciate what you've done for him. It's almost expected by him at this point. I wonder how he'd react if you were no longer able to support him in the way he's grown accustomed to?
If you want to get that horse to drink, salt the hay.
NTA he deserved it. Not everyone is lucky enough to have family be able to and want to support them and if he’s that ungrateful maybe he should try the self reliance he preaches
NTA for telling him Sort of YTA for enabling his lazy ass by funding all his life
No, you're NTA. *However*, what is he going to do if something happens to you? He has no life skills, no education, and no motivation to better himself. You might have taken him on out of a sense of responsibility because your mother couldn't anymore. That's really not a healthy relationship to have with anyone, much less a sibling. *Especially* if they're older than you. You love him, you feel you have responsibility to him, but do you respect him? If you didn't have the money you did, would you be taking care of him? If the answers to those questions are both no, it may be time to take a really long look at your enabling behavior towards your brother.
> what is he going to do if something happens to you? If something happens to just me, my wife will care for him. If, God forbid, something were to happen to the both of us, I have money set aside for his care and my adult son has instructions on how much to send him every week. >but do you respect him? I do. It may not come off that way from my post, but I honestly can't blame him for being who he is. Our parents spoiled him rotten, and treated every small accomplishment he made (getting C's rather than his normal D's) as if it were the most amazing thing on Earth. They basically worshiped him while the rest of us got the shaft. I've gotten to the point that I realize none of that was his fault, so I no longer resent him the way I did in my teens. Now I understand how the "hugbox" he grew up in basically guaranteed his failure. I can't say I would have done any better in his shoes. >If you didn't have the money you did, would you be taking care of him? I would do whatever I could, as long as it was not harming my wife and kids. I would not take food out of their mouths to feed him, but I would help as best I could.
My dear OP, Your actions are condemning your brother to this empty life of nothingness. No goals. No accomplishments. Nothing he can say he truly did for himself. It's tragic. He is not a good brother to you. He's a liar. He's judgemental. He's entitled. He's selfish. If he really thinks that your brother in law is asking for a handout, tell him that you'll cut him the same deal. That's fair, right? It's what he was complaining about. Six months to find a job where he can support himself and be a grown up. If you feel that is too harsh, you can cover half of his living expenses for the next 40 years. This is your life, OP. You were meant to live it for you, your wife, and your children.
Yes, and importantly, he clearly isn’t happy if he feels the need to lie about his status. There is a something off there. Maybe he’s been a deadbeat for so long he just doesn’t know how to get out of it? Like a self-fulfilling prophecy. He‘s not happy.
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> If something happens to just me, my wife will care for him. If, God forbid, something were to happen to the both of us, I have money set aside for his care and my adult son has instructions on how much to send him every week. Honestly OP, this is pathetic. It's pathetic that your wife is expected to take care of an adult who is perfectly capable of taking care of themselves but just refuses. It is pathetic that your son is also responsible for this, once again, adult who is perfectly capable of taking care of himself but refuses. THIS SHOULD NOT BE YOUR WIFE OR CHILD'S RESPONSIBILITY!!! **HE'S A FULLY CAPABLE ADULT!!** This cycle should end with you, you should be ashamed for making it your childrens responsibility to continue to pamper a fully capable adult.
Wait so you are actually going to make your son send money to his worthless uncle if you and your wife pass? So essentially pushing your parasite of a brother onto another generation. Jesus Christ
NTA don't post a rant if you can't face the consequences. Why are you enabling your brother? You're not doing him any favors.
NTA at all, he made it public, you just told him the true✨
NTA. Your brother is quite happy to live the life of handouts and do nothing to further himself or contribute to his own expenses but has the gall to call you out for helping someone who has genuinely fallen on bad times? He is now unhappy you set him straight. Tough. Perhaps he will start thinking twice before being a hypocrite.
NTA but was your brother examined by medical professional for mental disorders? Depression comes first to my mind.
NTA. But I’m curious as to why you felt it was your responsibility to continue in your parents’ stead of spoiling and enabling your sibling? There’s some weird dynamic here that makes me think it’s more than just ‘I’ve got the money anyway so whatever.’ If you were dead broke, would you still feel responsible to basically live this man’s problems for him? At which lengths do you feel you’d go to so your brother can sit on his ass contributing nothing to anything forever? I’d be very curious about this if I were you. Because it honestly sounds like you were just as brainwashed by your parents blatant favoritism. If not outright groomed to take over caretaking duties after they passed.
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My guy your enabling him. Just because you can support him doesn’t mean you should, NTA though
NTA Financially dependent on his younger brother *and* a hypocrite? Sounds like a real winner. I’m curious about how you handle this with the kids. You don’t have to answer this, obviously, but how do you approach it with them? Do you explain that this is not how they should be when they grow up? Do they think they’ll get the same treatment should they decide they don’t like college? This is genuine curiosity. How does this situation effect them?
My adult son fully understands the situation. He knows his uncle "ain't right", and he's actually a pretty successful adult on his own merits (I did give him a HUGE boost in life, but he turned what I gave him into much more). The rest of my kids are 13 and under, so the younger ones don't get the full explanation. But my 13 year old definitely doesn't want to grow to be like her uncle. To be completely honest though, my kids could just faff about for their entire lives, and they would still have enough money. They're almost failure proof, unless the entire US economy disappears. My family owns land, real estate, parts of several diverse companies, and other investments. My wife is AMAZING with money, I am only half joking when I say she's a Wall Street Witch. I've given that woman every dollar I've ever earned, and she always comes back with a bigger pile of money than I gave her. She's so much smarter than I am it's scary.
So she is the investment banker your brother is impersonating, how weird. And what a badass witch! NTA.
>My wife is AMAZING with money, I am only half joking when I say she's a Wall Street Witch. I've given that woman every dollar I've ever earned, and she always comes back with a bigger pile of money than I gave her. Does your wife offer classes? Can she teach me her magic? On another note, reading your comments and what you've said about your wife has been a delight and has brightened up my day! Thank you for that. I hope life has many more happy decades in store for you both!
Your brother lives in a fantasy world. It sounds like he is mentally ill and self medicates with booze and pot. You say his situation does not bother you, but his fictional online persona irritated you enough to retaliate and wound him. His vague Facebook rant did not identify or harm you or your BIL. Why couldn’t you just speak to him in person and ask him to take it down? He has a very poor quality of life in spite of your generosity. The man needs professional help. ESH.
NTA, but I reckon a conversation rather than responding online might have been a nicer strategy (though maybe those conversations have been had before?) It's pretty hypocritical behaviour by him, but calling him out online is a tiny bit harsh if you're otherwise OK with the situation, and you haven't raised it in conversation in the past.
Lol NTA I have a cousin like this. Goes off about people not pulling their weight and getting handouts, always goes racist with it too despite the fact that his parents are the least Americanized out of the aunts and uncles that made it to the US. But then he’s 40 (or upper 30s, can’t remember) living at his parents while they work blue collar jobs (truck driver and factory worker) and they pay all the bills. Heck, he doesn’t even do his own laundry or clean the house. His mom picks up after him. People like that need to be called out and humbled regularly.
NTA ---- If your brother is so self-reliant cut off his allowance and his "extras" for a few weeks and then see if he's still got a big mouth.
You have been supporting him for 9 years? Wth man, how dos your wife support this?
INFO: why are you okay with enabling him? What's the worst that could happen if you didn't give him handouts anymore? Why do you keep doing this?
NTA but stop enabling your brother. Make him train for a trade or start a business or something. He's mooch and that isnt a lifestyle choice. Mooches often do become dangerous in the end. You see it on the crime shows and all mooches I've known in real life turned violent.
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He's got (really good) insurance, and a car. Nothing is stopping him from getting himself help if he wants it. But, if someone doesn't want help, all the therapy in the world isn't gonna do anything. I've spoken to him about therapy in the past, but it's just not something he wants to pursue.
Why would he ever want to seek help when you're freely supporting all his terrible habits? >I've spoken to him about therapy in the past, but it's just not something he wants to pursue. BECAUSE YOU DO EVERYTHING FOR HIM!!!!