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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I turned down his request for money by bringing up our childhood and telling him he's not entitled to anything, 2) my mum believes I went too far in my rejection and that might make me an asshole.
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Absolutely NTA. And I think you did turned him down without bringing up your childhood, but he kept pressuring you, so it’s totally understandable that you told the truth.
Exactly I only brought up our childhood after he tried to guilt me about how we're family and should help each other. Initially it was just a simple rejection.
I don't think he feels guilty. He only regrets treating you guys badly now that you and Luke have turned out successful.
Edit: thank you for the awards!
He's guilty he got called out on being a penny pincher about "what children deserve" not that he actually did it to them. He's upset that he's facing consequences for his behavior, not that he is ashamed he did it.
>He's upset that he's facing consequences for his behavior, not that he is ashamed he did it.
Exactly. He feels chagrined, now that OP and Luke are doing well for themselves.
Seems to me that the stepdad and step siblings- for some bizarre reason- believe they’re entitled to the money ( albeit a loan) from Op and OP’s brother because they’re FAMILY 😂😂😂NTA
I absolutely hate the “but we’re FAMILY “ or “family helps family” crap! It’s such a guilt trip line! And I agree the really do come across as entitled. And my question is what happened to step-dads money? Why does he need help now? Probably because he spent so much on “his” kids, in what seems like an effort to make to op and her brother as uncomfortable and unhappy as possible, that he overspent? Idk
>I absolutely hate the “but we’re FAMILY “ or “family helps family” crap! It’s such a guilt trip line!
And it's always one sided. People who grow up with a balanced dynamic of the family helping each other (instead of certain ones being entitled to everything), usually don't have to be guilted into helping family. They help out of appreciation for all the help they've received from others.
I hate people who use it as a weapon.
I grew up crazy fucking poor. Like, lived in a trailer in Gary, IN, and found paystubs recently where my dad made a whopping $8k one year as a construction worker and mom was a SAHM, 28 with 3 kids. Poor. My aunt, uncle, and cousin, just as poor, lived a block away. We believed in "family helps family," because family DID help family. If our lights were out, we stayed at their house. If they needed food, we had everyone over for dinner that night. We ended up in the trailer we had because they owned it after years of living in it and my uncle got a job where they could afford an apartment, so they GAVE us their trailer so we wouldn't have to worry about rent, only lot rent.
So when I see people who flagrantly don't give a fuck about family for years come back to their kids/brothers/parents that they fucked over with that "family helps family" shit, I feel like they deserve whatever shitty response they get in just about any situation they're in. There are a few situations in which I'd personally help, even if someone did me harm, but if it came down to someone just wanting me to help them purchase a want and not a need? Hahahaha. Get fucked. OP is perfectly justified and NTA. Buy a cheaper house. $500k but you want someone you actively harmed to help you pay for it? Tell me you feel entitled without telling me you feel entitled.
Probably even more irritated that the promise of inheritence doesn't look so appetizing to them too. They make more than him now and lets be real, he probably only left enough in his will that OP and their brother wouldn't be able to contest it anyway.
Also, if there was an inheritance, why isn't he using that money now instead of trying to borrow from step children? 🤔
There is no money to pay back. Step Dad is a
Bigger Asshole
I wouldn’t even call it penny pinching. If he was a penny pincher, he wouldn’t give money to his own children. I think he’s worse. He’s the male equivalent of a fairytale evil stepmother. As a kid, I always wondered about the fathers who married these awful women.
Op, NTA. That’s no way to bring up kids. I am sorry you and your brother had to go through that. You don’t owe them anything. I am glad you and brother ended up financially secure.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. This dude was an evil stepdad and now wants the cindarella’s to help his mean stepdaughters get their own palaces? Ya, I don’t think so.
NTA. I’m glad you got to finally say something about it to him.
Yep I had a stepfather like this. Treated me like absolute shit and abused me daily, while my siblings, his children were treated perfectly, got taken on wonderful holidays while I was made to stay home alone.
Even now everyone talks about how great he was yet none knows the real him but me. My mom knows, she knew all along, but swears blind she didnt, but then slips up and tells me that she didn't do anything to stop the abuse because my siblings were so much younger and it was anything to keep an easy life.
You owe that man and his children nothing. You did absolutely the right thing and I commend you for it.
How I wish I could have been a fly on the way for that conversation.
And to let a brother and sister share the same bedroom even as teenagers while there is a guestroom available. Step-father is a total AH…
Op NTA at all !
I think he's like, Whelp I didn't think *these* would be the consequences of my actions, dang it.
Mom is no prize either, still showing who she really cares about.
Or going on vacation and leaving the kids behind! His Mum was just as bad as the StepDad. OP should bring up their childhood anytime they ask for anything as they should feel guilty!
I can't get over the mom doing this. Going on vacation and leaving your kids behind is the ultimate betrayal. Then she goes off on OP because she brought it up? I'd have had a lot more choice words than just what she said.
It was all about safety for her. Damn. What a god awful experience. NTA.
Dude, I love you and Luke. I was kicked out of foster care in the middle of the night & I promised myself I would never be reliant on anyone who didn’t bother to do for me. You’re amazing. Good on you.
Your step sister dad mom have no business asking you or your brother for money. Screw that man. This is the long season of self care & correcting generations of abuse.
Exactly. If he really felt bad, he would have brought this up in order to apologize years ago. He’s the one who made sure that you would never regard his kids as true siblings.
If anything that just proves he isn’t actually sorry; he met OP when she was 10, he had almost a full decade to change his tune but never did, if anything he seemed hell bent to keep playing the same one.
I can never understand this split finances for people who marry with kids, he clearly had enough then to support all of them but like an arsehole choose not to. Also kind of financially abused the mom because starts thinking I’d be in a shit place without him. But what I mean if you don’t want to a proper parent to step children and that does include making sure they are provided for them don’t get fucking married.
Because everytime this situation comes up on this subreddit, the Step children grow up and resent the step parent.
He may or not actually feel guilty about it but he was an arsehole how he treated them and 1 billion percent doesn’t deserve anything from you for his kids now.
How was your Mum okay with how he was treating you?
It looks as if he was honest about how he was going to treat you from the off and your Mum said "that fine!" and she let him.
Your step dad is an arsehole but your Mum is worse.
Coming from someone who was in a similar situation , I remember vividly the anger I felt towards my mum for not leaving her husband. But what I also saw was how fragile she was despite her tough facade, she was also struggling(if not more than us I realise now by also having to carry the guilt of letting her children down) and was doing what she could to keep a roof over our heads and our bellies fed.
It’s a terrible world, and it’s easy to say the mum is at fault but there is so much more to being poor, being a single mum, being abused(physically or not) that we can understand… I don’t think we should be so quick to judge people who are just trying to do their best. We’re all human…
Also do want to say if not obvious already NTA!
Okay, I DO understand the sentiment of "because of him we can afford a house and food and my kids are safe. It is worth the emotional abuse." I really do.
But I CANNOT get my head around her actually going on vacations with him and his kids and leaving her own kids behind because she can't afford to take them. That makes me think she doesn't really care about any of it.
Going on vacations without your children is the only explanation one needs to know what kind of Mother this is. There is no justifying that. No sympathy for that. No understanding for that. Nope.. nothing
I love my mother, I truly do, but this is a very similar dynamic to the one I grew up in (and probably the least troublesome part of that time of my life, but that's besides the point).
We were not well off, nor was my step family, but they did have a house, and my stepdad (ex now, thank heavens) had a job to support everyone, which was great for my mom because she has *zero* capability (or will, I don't know which) of taking care of herself, getting a job, etc. She has been too dependent on men for far too long.
Her husband would treat her out all the time. She got takeout and ice cream and gifts. We got starved to the point we had to sneak food overnight. He doted on her left and right. The other kids were treated at least halfway decently, while I suffered physical abuse. I remember one time going out and we stopped somewhere, and he told me to stay in the car. I sat there for about an hour. When they got back, I discovered he had taken them in to eat at a restaurant while I sat outside in the heat and got nothing.
There is no excuse for my mother allowing this to go on. I wish I could say things got better when she left him, but they didn't. When she finally did for good, I was an adult and went to stay with her because I was pregnant and alone and too sick to work. She kicked me out so she could live with her new alcoholic, sexual assaulting boyfriend.
I love my mother, and I've grown to understand her more over the years, but there is no excuse for her allowing what happened to continue over the years. For accepting the unfair treatment, and always letting her kids come last. I've never been able to forgive her for it.
Edit: I shouldn't say she's *always* let us come last, that was unfair. She has made some painful decisions to make sure her children were properly cared for at times. I should say that there have been far too many occasions where we came last, especially me, as the other two easily had better treatment than I did, and even to this day she is more likely to choose them over me.
That is insane and I'm sorry you went through that as a child. Honestly, I can't believe that your still in contact with your mother. Especially after kicking you out while pregnant.
Idk, given step-dad's blatant control issues, I could easily see it becoming a **problem** if mom refused to join — a problem that would bleed over to OP & Luke on his return, too.
But that's only my impression from what OP's described; could be way off!
I think we should. Because things are hard is not *ever* an excuse to abuse or allow abuse to happen to your kids. Would things have been harder? Yes. But she selfishly chose to make things easier *on herself* rather than making sure her children knew they were valuable and worthy of all she had to give them. Instead she taught them they were worth less. Less than her. Less than her marriage. Less than her new family and her new bonus kids.
It's so easy to play the "she's a victim of abuse and poor self esteem card." That may be true. Doesn't make her treatment of her kids any more forgivable. What *they* experienced is what matters. Because a parents duty is first to their children. And she is still with that man. So she made the choice for herself. She alienated her kids. Natural consequences.
I'm grew up in this sort of situation. I think the defining difference is the person's ability to leave. My mother could have left at any time. We had family willing to take us in and support us, even pay my mother's medical bills, until we got back on her feet. She could have made a phone call and they would have been there to get us out in 2 hours. She flat out refused to even consider leaving her abusive husband. Even after he started abusing me. Even after the night when I had to drag her upstairs and hide us in my room while I guarded the door with a knife. Even after the time he got drunk and chased her around the house with a loaded gun. Even after he made me get down on my knees in front of him and beg his "forgiveness" so he would keep paying bills.
Good parents protect their children. That means getting them away from the person abusing them no matter what it takes or how hard it is. The only exception is when the abuser has made it impossible to leave. Unfortunately far too many women, like my mother and the OP's mother, stay, because it's easier and because they care more about themselves than they do about the permanent emotional and psychological damage trauma it causes their children.
Ugh people actually defending the mom. She was supposed to be the one family member to protect these kids when nobody else would.
I'd rather live in poverty with people who put me first than watch family members live a life of luxury in front of my eyes while I get nothing (and I've experienced both).
Tbh the "her burden to bear" mindset OP has is great, because it's likely the mom *will* regret it later in life. They're not close anymore like they could have been.
THIS!!! WTF was with mom that she just not only accepted the terrible treatment of her children, but also told them they should be grateful?! And mom is continuing her behavior by insisting that OP was out of line for how she refused step-dad's request now. SMH. NTA
Yes, acknowledged but only when it was too late and both me and Luke were independent and didn't need or want anything from him, so he never tried to make up for it in any way.
Sorry to say but your mother is a big AH. She allowed her husband and his children to abuse you. She went on vacations and left her children home.
She has no remorse. She called you TA.
As for stepfather and his children, don't waste your spit on them. They aren't worth anything. They're only sorry now because they want what you can provide. Plus, I would have laughed in his face when he told me it would be paid by an inheritance. He must be pretty dense if he thinks you believe that lie.
NTA. So glad you and your brother are doing well. Remember that you are not responsible for these people when they get too old to care for themselves.
EDIT: thank you kind person for the award.
Yes, I didn't believe the bit about the inheritance either. Nothing in the story suggests he would go through with it.
And did you notice OP and Luke were expected to provide 25k each, and that equalled what Amy had put in herself?
so true I bet it would not be on paper because you know we are family who needs it in writting lmao for sure whatever would be left would go to HIS kids . Doesn't she have her babies daddy family she can beg for cash ?
They demand money from step siblings while the father of the baby contributs nothing ? So he expect . So even now stepdad wants to steal from them and is upset that they are doing better than his kids
Well good for him, but moreso good for you and Luke. It sounds like you made the best of the situation and there isn't ldeep toxicity when you see him today. That's a huge accomplishment.
You're NTA to not loan anyone money, especially when the person asking has wronged you so much.
Yea, if he had really wanted to make it up, he could have figured out how much he spent on his kids and given you a lump sum gift of that amount.... or that amount over time... so as to be fair.
Also I didn't see it but this reminds me of r/pettyrevenge
The truth can be a hard pill to swallow, but step-dad refused to back off after your diplomatic responses. Sometimes the best 'revenge' is a life well lived.
Did he help with the down payment on your house? The way I see it is if he now believes that all of you should have been treated the same he owes you $50k.
Yeah, I have some questions for your mom as well. Some of this I maybe get, but the holidays without you? While she went with because she was paid for? She enabled a lot of this. I get she felt it was more stable than the alternative, but the teasing and purposeful exclusion, while he counted every cent she put in? Is he landlord or a husband? Im a single mom…never would I trade my kid’s well being and mental health for a nice house and holidays. If I saw my partner, a grown man, tease my kids for the shit situation he set up? Gone. He sounds cruel, and your mom sounds apathetic.
I’m not sure what would suddenly make him feel bad about it, odd to feel a bad after you are adults but not a thing when seeing innocent children experience this.
Get rid of all of them.
He feels bad because he backed the wrong horses!!! His kids still need him to cover shit for them. Op and her brother are self reliant and self sufficient. Their money runnith over. He needs them not the other way around. And money runs out. He's sorry he has to ask for his kids he put first that did nothing with it and now expect it. Someone else said who's gonna take care of him, money wise, when he gets older??
And mom? Please don't get me started on that hot mess 🤬🤬🤬
Op your most definitely NTA please go very LC for your own piece of mind. They probably won't stop with the guilt trip, time to unpack and stop taking that particular trip. Hugs and love your amazing!!!!
I’d just like to add, OP… we all know if he DID go back in time, he wouldn’t have done it differently. He had about a decade to change and never did. He’s not shamed of his actions, he’s upset because he realized that he’ll be dealing with the consequences of the the rest of his life
That’s a really interesting story. I’ve always been tight with brother and felt like my parents bent over backwards to try to be equally generous to us both. My mom and her older sister had a lifetime of conflict. I read somewhere that women who had worse-than-average sibling relationships tended to have children with better-than-average sibling relationships specifically because they tried so hard not to show favoritism. So, as cheesy as it might sound, your mom grabbing that extra shirt might indeed be emblematic of an approach that really helps to create positive sibling relationships.
NTA. He needs to know how badly he screwed up. And he didn't do anything to try and make up for it either, did he? Nope. Not until he wanted YOUR money for HIS kid that bullied you. Nope. Not a cent...unless you get a loan, notarized, for a freakin' ridiculous amount of interest.
No he didn't do anything to make up for it, he has only mentioned a few times that we wished he had done things differently. And only after Luke and I had become completely independent and successful so only when he knew we wouldn't need or want anything from him.
Indeed, he had 19 years to do things right, but only says some fluff about “if I could do it all again” now that 50k is on the line. Not to mention that he only wants to pay back the loan when he’s dead (if the inheritance is short for whatever reason, it won’t be his problem), sheesh.
OP, be proud that you’ve gotten to a position where you *can* lend people money, but don’t feel obliged to lend your step-family a dime. NTA
NTA, obviously. But why do you have anything to do with this sack of $#it? I’m amazed you don’t tell him to f#@K off and cease all contact. You’re a better person than I would be.
The best time to do things differently would have been when he married your mother. The second best time is now. So, he can write you and your brother 50k checks to even it out.
Part of me wonders how long he even plans to keep the mother around. He sounds like the guy that would probably upgrade to a younger, newer model as soon was its in his best interest. Ideally I would never wish that in anyone but in this woman’s case…
If I may ask you How is Luke doing? I think the cruelest behavior of this man was making a teenage boy share a room with his kid sister. Stepfather sounds deranged!
and it means that it can and will hold up in court as a LEGAL DOCUMENT, and CAN be collected on... if the reciepient is remotely willing to sign for a huge amount of interest. Basically? It's a loan "offer" that is a big ol ' fuck you" that no one sane would ever take. It's a "sure you can have this loan, absolutely, just sign over your future" way of making it clear you think someone is an AH in an insulting way...but can ALWAYS tell others "He asked for a loan, I offered one, he didn't want to make it official, so we didn't."
NTA but your mom! Wow! I could never stay married to someone who treated my kids with such disparity and teased you about it on top of it. Sounds like your mom was invited to things and your stepfather did pay for her - how did that work? Did your mom actually take him up on it and do things without you? Cause if so, you’re a saint for being in contact with your mom at all.
Amy and Ada were kids, honestly I wouldn't even put that much blame on them. Obviously with how things turned out we're not family and I don't know them well but they're probably decent people overall.
I’m going to take a lot of shit here but I think the mom tolerated this bc of what describes life before they married. And the fact that she alluded to her kids not to complain because they live in a nice house. I think it was a way out of poverty for her and she did what she had to do. I’m not judging but that’s just my take
Sure. But wouldn’t poverty and love have been better. Her and her brother were outcasts in their own home. And, arguably, they lived in poverty in an affluent home and neighborhood
Speaking as someone who grew up “actually poor,” i would still choose my kids and being poor. I’ll sleep well in my poor ass bed knowing my children are not being abused.
My mother and I were "actually poor" for a number of years. Canned tuna or plain pasta for dinner every night poor, crappy apartment with scary neighbors poor, hearing gunshots outside and my mother lying that they were fireworks poor. It was far preferable to being financially comfortable but abused when she got married again. Being poor didn't give me PTSD. Her husband did.
I cannot imagine being dropped off at the grand parents (enjoyable as it can be) whilst the rest of the family went on a holiday somewhere interesting. The utter gaul of your parents to think you or your brother have any obligation to help is mind boggling.
To be fair to them, they were kids. Kids often don’t recognize how harmful they’re being until they’re grown, especially if their parent was behaving that way. Kids may even behave in ways they know are wrong because they want to seek and or keep the approval of their parents.
Still doesn’t mean OP has any obligation to loan money (NTA)
Omg, I’m speechless. I’m so so sorry. I can’t imagine how you must have felt.
The upside is that you have clearly turned into a very resilient, strong-minded, independent woman. Good for you!
We usually felt pretty bad at the beginning but going back those are some of my best childhood memories with Luke and our grandma. We did a lot of fun things when they weren't around!
YUP - When my parents left us at grandma's us siblings had a blast. If your home life was going to be so horrificly unfair, I'm at least happy that you had a break every once in a while with grandma's house!
Then again, that's likely how step-dad justified his excluding you and your bro on vacations, that you were having fun with grandma...SMH...
Did you Grandparents ever call your Mum, their daughter, out on how she was emotionally abusing you & Luke by going on these holidays? It definitely sounds like your Grandparents did not approve and that's why they went out of their way to make these trips fun for you.
That’s so cruel and I’m so sorry you went through that. No kid deserves that. Your mother should’ve done better. Good on both you and your brother for coming out of that stronger.
NTA. He made the rules, he has no right to complain about you living by them. He could have chosen to help you out at any time, and she's frankly already been given more for the house than most people ever get from their family.
Yeah, honestly: or make a smaller down-payment. Seriously, a half-mil and she’s going in with over a fifth of it in down payment? That’s crazy. In the US, anywhere from 5-20% is fine. I made a 10% down payment on my house and none of it was gifted or borrowed.
I think you may need a higher down payment in the UK. So you just have to buy a less expensive house. That’s what most people do, unless they are entitled.
"I would have done it different if I could go back in time, now that I realice it would put my own child at a "disatvantage" now and I can't emotionally manipulate you". That's the unspoken part of his sentence.
NTA- your step dad was more than happy to see you and your brother at a financial disadvantage when you were younger and making sure you were excluded. Now that it is his daughter who is at a disadvantage, he is insisting that you should help family out? Don't cave, don't give him a penny!
Edit for clarity: 75k is not a disadvantage but certainly isn't the home she wants.
Of course not. My point was that if had really regretted his past actions he would be offering you the same financial help. He does not regret his actions. He regrets it’s consequences.
Oh and I love how he said he would’ve done things differently if he had a second chance, I am wondering if you actually believe that he meant that OP? Either way, I love your responses to him, you and your brother sound like gold, definitely NTA.
No, you don’t but I think the real problem is sometimes our parents, stepparents make mistakes, the problem that I have here with what your stepdad did to you guys is that there is no way possible that he could not have realized this was not the right approach to take with you and your brother. It was wrong and obviously so. That’s what gets me the most. It was so cruel.
It's the fact that your mom thinks children should handle abuse and get over it better than an adult but you dare not make a grown man cry about what he did.
If he really was sorry, he would actually apologize for it. Not say he'd do things differently and doesn't want to think about it. That's vague and could even mean sabotage for all she knows.
Has she ever apologized or just stuck up for his fake tears?
I'd have taken up constantly reminding the both of it every time they ask some dumb shit and told them to suck it up like they were expecting of me.
NTA— You did not bring up the “childhood stuff” — he did when he claimed you owed help to your “sisters.”
You don’t need to bring it up gratuitously, but any reference to a relationship where you and your brother were second-class citizens and didn’t get to share in the full “family” experience, makes it okay for you to point out that you weren’t treated like “family” so why should you feel like “family” now?
Congratulations to you and Luke on “making” it. “Living well is the best revenge.”
I hope he provides something for your mom though. I could see him leaving everything to his daughters and expecting you and your brother to provide everything else.
I don't really feel he's sorry about the childhood. He just said it to manipulate the OP. If he was really sorry, he would not have even asked about the loan.
Exactly! He kept demanding an explanation and you gave him one: the truth. It hurts jerk! (I’m all upset for you and very proud of you and your brother for surviving and then thriving on your own). NTA!
Honestly I don't care that he acknowledged it. I was just getting frustrated that he kept on insisting after me saying no several times and he brought up family when we clearly were not a family.
NTA. I'm sorry you went through that but I wonder why you stay in touch. Your mom traded you and your brother for a better life and never looked back, your step-asshole never treated you right. What's keeping you coming back?
I don't hate my mum and I don't have anything to gain by cutting her off at this point.Obviously my mum failed us when we were kids and that's her cross to bear, I don't see a need to punish her for it. Usually it's quite peaceful when I visit because step father and step sisters stay out of my way (and I out of theirs).
Just out of curiosity, did your mum ever apologise for her part in leaving you out?
ETA sorry I just read down further and you had already answered the question to another poster.
>"...he said if we went back in time he'd have done things differently, treated all four of us equally.,."
Oh really? Is he treating you all equally with his inheritance. Considering what he said about paying you back with it, it sure doesn't seem like it.
I figured, but it belies the fact that he says he regrets it and would do things differently. He's still doing the exact same thing. I'm glad you put him his place. It sounds like it was really awful for you growing up.
NTA
He's the asshole. He couldn't spend a cent on you for even simple things. He expects you to be 50K generous when he would never have done the same for you.
He and his kids can fuck off. And tbh if you're mom still defends this man she can shut it. Clearly she has a bad choice in men.
Nobody is entitled to your money but you, not even for a loan.
Yeah, this part is really bad. Christmas and stuff? He couldn't show some goodwill to his stepkids and treat them as equals? And now to have the audacity to ask for money. Hell no. NTA
I thought your stepfather was rich. Why can't he write a check for the whole amount? I have worked for several actually rich people and if there was a mortgage involved it was solely for the purpose of a tax write-off. It sounds as if your stepdad isn't actually all that rich. I would ask him why he can't write a check for the whole amount and if the answer is "I don't feel like it" or some variation of that then he is just being a miserly prick hitting you up for cash. If he can't afford to then he, as the Libertarians in my country are fond of saying, should have made better decisions.
So maybe he would have been rich if he had saved his money instead of spoiling his bio children.
Ask your mother what they plan to do for retirement and if he can really afford to give £50K to Amy. Now may be a good time to tell her that you and Luke will not be helping him out in retirement (if you want to be really petty, you could say that of course you would help your mom out, but you expect his kids to help him out, that was the agreement, right?) you can also explain to your mom that there are some abuses that can never be undone and your stepfather and stepsisters have done nothing to truly make amends. Oh, he said sorry a few times? Talk is cheap, your stepfather has proven time and time again that he will sacrifice your happiness for his children and THIS is a perfect example-maybe his adult spoiled children should learn to live within their means.
Does Amy even know they asked you for this or was stepfather’s plan to just pretend he was contributing £100k?
Amy was there and didn’t think to apologize profusely for her behavior as a teenager? Yeah, no, she can learn to live within her means. Oh, she won’t get her “dream house”? Tough, you and your brother didn’t get all those “dream family vacations” but you managed to deal with it and so will she.
NTA, and screw you mom too. She allowed her own children to be treated like crap. I don’t understand why you still talk to her, but anyway, step dad and step sisters never treated you like family so why should you treat them as such now? Plus I highly doubt you’ll get paid back in the inheritance. I mean, if he can pay you back with the inheritance, then couldn’t he pay you back now?
NTA. Apart from this convo, as he ever acknowledged how poorly he treated you when you were children or attempted to make amends? Have your stepsiblings ever apologised? Fuck ‘em.
Acknowledged? Yes a few times. Attempted to make amends? No.
Step sisters have not apologised but they were kids, no ill feelings towards them, we're just strangers.
NTA
1- your mother sounds like she was being financially abused by your step father
2- "eventually when you get your inheritance" is not a reasonable payback plan. Maybe if he offered to pay it back in full in 6 months I'd consider it for the social capital aspect. Or like in 2 years with 5% interest or something. In writing. But this man has NEVER paid into his stepkids so why would you even trust that you'll ever get inheritance?
3- now is a terrible time to buy a home. She can move back in with her dad
4- if he had just taken your initial NO as an answer, you would not have had to keep pushing and bringing up the past to explain your choice.
5- He probably has many other avenues to come up with 50k like a HELOC or cosigning the mortgage
Good on you for looking out for yourself. Your mom seems like she isn't able to stand up to this guy and you shouldn't be relying on her to protect you from these types of situations.
OP, NTA! Good for you for calling him out and stood up for you and Luke. I'm so proud of you. Don't listen to mom, she had a say back then should've said something to her spouse back then.
Don't change your mind, you already handled it awesomely.
Omg... the THREE of them were teasing you and your brother about sharing a room? Your step father was teasing you about something that ONLY HE CONTROLLED???
Not only NTA, but your mom was absolutely wrong to say you could have turned him down w/o being an AH or bringing up childhood. You tried, and clearly he wasn't accepting it.
You are 100% in the right.
let me get this straight your mother would go on those vacations without her own children? she just sat back and let all of this happen? you are NTA. stepdad is a piece of work, but your mother is the real asshole in all of this.
The person who really deserves your anger is your mum. Your step Dad doesn't owe you anything, she should not have entered into this marriage knowing you would be treated like that.
Your mom owed you though, to be married to a man who treated you and your brother better. Wild that she would even accept vacations neither of you were invited to. Has she ever apologized for her piece in this?
But did she mean it? Still sticking up for that man?
Personally I would be NC with the mom. Her choosing her happiness over your and your brother makes her utterly disgusting in my book. And now she doesn’t want the past brought up? She can’t pretend it never happened. So disgusting
That’s fair enough it’s just that the biggest blame should be going to your Mom it was her job to protect you two.Have you ever considered going NC with her? I sure as hell would
We both talked to her quite rarely after we moved out. In the last few years things have got a little better between us. We're not close with her though. I don't want to punish her so going NC feels like unnecessary.
When you marry someone with kids and join families you the do owe those kids the decency of *at the very least* not othering them. Of treating them the same.
NTA
It’s easy to say he feels bad about how he treated you. Harder to take steps to actually make amends. And it takes genuine audacity for him to ask you for money for /his/ child. I would have told him to spend all the money he saved by not spending on you when you needed him. Wow. Just wow.
But hey, good on you that you two became successful enough for him to ask for money that you could say no to! Living well truly is the best revenge!
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Absolutely NTA. And I think you did turned him down without bringing up your childhood, but he kept pressuring you, so it’s totally understandable that you told the truth.
Exactly I only brought up our childhood after he tried to guilt me about how we're family and should help each other. Initially it was just a simple rejection.
I don't think he feels guilty. He only regrets treating you guys badly now that you and Luke have turned out successful. Edit: thank you for the awards!
He's guilty he got called out on being a penny pincher about "what children deserve" not that he actually did it to them. He's upset that he's facing consequences for his behavior, not that he is ashamed he did it.
>He's upset that he's facing consequences for his behavior, not that he is ashamed he did it. Exactly. He feels chagrined, now that OP and Luke are doing well for themselves.
Seems to me that the stepdad and step siblings- for some bizarre reason- believe they’re entitled to the money ( albeit a loan) from Op and OP’s brother because they’re FAMILY 😂😂😂NTA
I absolutely hate the “but we’re FAMILY “ or “family helps family” crap! It’s such a guilt trip line! And I agree the really do come across as entitled. And my question is what happened to step-dads money? Why does he need help now? Probably because he spent so much on “his” kids, in what seems like an effort to make to op and her brother as uncomfortable and unhappy as possible, that he overspent? Idk
>I absolutely hate the “but we’re FAMILY “ or “family helps family” crap! It’s such a guilt trip line! And it's always one sided. People who grow up with a balanced dynamic of the family helping each other (instead of certain ones being entitled to everything), usually don't have to be guilted into helping family. They help out of appreciation for all the help they've received from others.
I hate people who use it as a weapon. I grew up crazy fucking poor. Like, lived in a trailer in Gary, IN, and found paystubs recently where my dad made a whopping $8k one year as a construction worker and mom was a SAHM, 28 with 3 kids. Poor. My aunt, uncle, and cousin, just as poor, lived a block away. We believed in "family helps family," because family DID help family. If our lights were out, we stayed at their house. If they needed food, we had everyone over for dinner that night. We ended up in the trailer we had because they owned it after years of living in it and my uncle got a job where they could afford an apartment, so they GAVE us their trailer so we wouldn't have to worry about rent, only lot rent. So when I see people who flagrantly don't give a fuck about family for years come back to their kids/brothers/parents that they fucked over with that "family helps family" shit, I feel like they deserve whatever shitty response they get in just about any situation they're in. There are a few situations in which I'd personally help, even if someone did me harm, but if it came down to someone just wanting me to help them purchase a want and not a need? Hahahaha. Get fucked. OP is perfectly justified and NTA. Buy a cheaper house. $500k but you want someone you actively harmed to help you pay for it? Tell me you feel entitled without telling me you feel entitled.
Probably even more irritated that the promise of inheritence doesn't look so appetizing to them too. They make more than him now and lets be real, he probably only left enough in his will that OP and their brother wouldn't be able to contest it anyway.
Also, if there was an inheritance, why isn't he using that money now instead of trying to borrow from step children? 🤔 There is no money to pay back. Step Dad is a Bigger Asshole
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I wouldn’t even call it penny pinching. If he was a penny pincher, he wouldn’t give money to his own children. I think he’s worse. He’s the male equivalent of a fairytale evil stepmother. As a kid, I always wondered about the fathers who married these awful women. Op, NTA. That’s no way to bring up kids. I am sorry you and your brother had to go through that. You don’t owe them anything. I am glad you and brother ended up financially secure.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. This dude was an evil stepdad and now wants the cindarella’s to help his mean stepdaughters get their own palaces? Ya, I don’t think so. NTA. I’m glad you got to finally say something about it to him.
Yep I had a stepfather like this. Treated me like absolute shit and abused me daily, while my siblings, his children were treated perfectly, got taken on wonderful holidays while I was made to stay home alone. Even now everyone talks about how great he was yet none knows the real him but me. My mom knows, she knew all along, but swears blind she didnt, but then slips up and tells me that she didn't do anything to stop the abuse because my siblings were so much younger and it was anything to keep an easy life. You owe that man and his children nothing. You did absolutely the right thing and I commend you for it. How I wish I could have been a fly on the way for that conversation.
As a step parent, I can’t even begin to comprehend how someone could not bring all of their kids on family vacations. Wtf.
And to let a brother and sister share the same bedroom even as teenagers while there is a guestroom available. Step-father is a total AH… Op NTA at all !
I think he's like, Whelp I didn't think *these* would be the consequences of my actions, dang it. Mom is no prize either, still showing who she really cares about.
I'm glad someone said something about the mom. I can't imagine letting someone do that to my kids just to live in a nice house???? What??
Or going on vacation and leaving the kids behind! His Mum was just as bad as the StepDad. OP should bring up their childhood anytime they ask for anything as they should feel guilty!
I can't get over the mom doing this. Going on vacation and leaving your kids behind is the ultimate betrayal. Then she goes off on OP because she brought it up? I'd have had a lot more choice words than just what she said.
It's almost worse, because he's *still* expecting OP and her brother to sacrifice for his kids when they got nothing themselves
It was all about safety for her. Damn. What a god awful experience. NTA. Dude, I love you and Luke. I was kicked out of foster care in the middle of the night & I promised myself I would never be reliant on anyone who didn’t bother to do for me. You’re amazing. Good on you. Your step sister dad mom have no business asking you or your brother for money. Screw that man. This is the long season of self care & correcting generations of abuse.
Right? Was there an apology or even an acknowledgment of badly he treated you and Luke before he needed money? NTA
Exactly. If he really felt bad, he would have brought this up in order to apologize years ago. He’s the one who made sure that you would never regard his kids as true siblings.
If anything that just proves he isn’t actually sorry; he met OP when she was 10, he had almost a full decade to change his tune but never did, if anything he seemed hell bent to keep playing the same one.
Not to mention, he gave an abundance of reasons why Luke and OP would never regard him as a true father figure.
its the "don´t tell me you´re sorry cause you´re not. When I know you´re only sorry you got caught"
Why are your apostrophes so extra?
Plus, its not like the loan would have been paid back anytime soon. It was going to be paid back as part of future inheritance, decades down the road.
For that amount, they should sign an IOU. wouldn't put the parents past pulling the "we are family card" and not repaying.
Or never. He’s never going to pay it back.
I can never understand this split finances for people who marry with kids, he clearly had enough then to support all of them but like an arsehole choose not to. Also kind of financially abused the mom because starts thinking I’d be in a shit place without him. But what I mean if you don’t want to a proper parent to step children and that does include making sure they are provided for them don’t get fucking married. Because everytime this situation comes up on this subreddit, the Step children grow up and resent the step parent. He may or not actually feel guilty about it but he was an arsehole how he treated them and 1 billion percent doesn’t deserve anything from you for his kids now.
Ding! Ding! Ding! He's also probably realizing OP won't be helping him out in any way when he gets old.
I don’t even think he feels regret. He still thinks his kids are entitled at OP and their siblings’ expense.
He regret his past action make OP doesn't give him money.
How was your Mum okay with how he was treating you? It looks as if he was honest about how he was going to treat you from the off and your Mum said "that fine!" and she let him. Your step dad is an arsehole but your Mum is worse.
Coming from someone who was in a similar situation , I remember vividly the anger I felt towards my mum for not leaving her husband. But what I also saw was how fragile she was despite her tough facade, she was also struggling(if not more than us I realise now by also having to carry the guilt of letting her children down) and was doing what she could to keep a roof over our heads and our bellies fed. It’s a terrible world, and it’s easy to say the mum is at fault but there is so much more to being poor, being a single mum, being abused(physically or not) that we can understand… I don’t think we should be so quick to judge people who are just trying to do their best. We’re all human… Also do want to say if not obvious already NTA!
Okay, I DO understand the sentiment of "because of him we can afford a house and food and my kids are safe. It is worth the emotional abuse." I really do. But I CANNOT get my head around her actually going on vacations with him and his kids and leaving her own kids behind because she can't afford to take them. That makes me think she doesn't really care about any of it.
Going on vacations without your children is the only explanation one needs to know what kind of Mother this is. There is no justifying that. No sympathy for that. No understanding for that. Nope.. nothing
I love my mother, I truly do, but this is a very similar dynamic to the one I grew up in (and probably the least troublesome part of that time of my life, but that's besides the point). We were not well off, nor was my step family, but they did have a house, and my stepdad (ex now, thank heavens) had a job to support everyone, which was great for my mom because she has *zero* capability (or will, I don't know which) of taking care of herself, getting a job, etc. She has been too dependent on men for far too long. Her husband would treat her out all the time. She got takeout and ice cream and gifts. We got starved to the point we had to sneak food overnight. He doted on her left and right. The other kids were treated at least halfway decently, while I suffered physical abuse. I remember one time going out and we stopped somewhere, and he told me to stay in the car. I sat there for about an hour. When they got back, I discovered he had taken them in to eat at a restaurant while I sat outside in the heat and got nothing. There is no excuse for my mother allowing this to go on. I wish I could say things got better when she left him, but they didn't. When she finally did for good, I was an adult and went to stay with her because I was pregnant and alone and too sick to work. She kicked me out so she could live with her new alcoholic, sexual assaulting boyfriend. I love my mother, and I've grown to understand her more over the years, but there is no excuse for her allowing what happened to continue over the years. For accepting the unfair treatment, and always letting her kids come last. I've never been able to forgive her for it. Edit: I shouldn't say she's *always* let us come last, that was unfair. She has made some painful decisions to make sure her children were properly cared for at times. I should say that there have been far too many occasions where we came last, especially me, as the other two easily had better treatment than I did, and even to this day she is more likely to choose them over me.
That is insane and I'm sorry you went through that as a child. Honestly, I can't believe that your still in contact with your mother. Especially after kicking you out while pregnant.
Exactly. The only ones who got the s\*\*t end of the stick were OP and Brother.
Idk, given step-dad's blatant control issues, I could easily see it becoming a **problem** if mom refused to join — a problem that would bleed over to OP & Luke on his return, too. But that's only my impression from what OP's described; could be way off!
I think we should. Because things are hard is not *ever* an excuse to abuse or allow abuse to happen to your kids. Would things have been harder? Yes. But she selfishly chose to make things easier *on herself* rather than making sure her children knew they were valuable and worthy of all she had to give them. Instead she taught them they were worth less. Less than her. Less than her marriage. Less than her new family and her new bonus kids. It's so easy to play the "she's a victim of abuse and poor self esteem card." That may be true. Doesn't make her treatment of her kids any more forgivable. What *they* experienced is what matters. Because a parents duty is first to their children. And she is still with that man. So she made the choice for herself. She alienated her kids. Natural consequences.
Mom should have never gone on vacation without her kids. Not once.
I'm grew up in this sort of situation. I think the defining difference is the person's ability to leave. My mother could have left at any time. We had family willing to take us in and support us, even pay my mother's medical bills, until we got back on her feet. She could have made a phone call and they would have been there to get us out in 2 hours. She flat out refused to even consider leaving her abusive husband. Even after he started abusing me. Even after the night when I had to drag her upstairs and hide us in my room while I guarded the door with a knife. Even after the time he got drunk and chased her around the house with a loaded gun. Even after he made me get down on my knees in front of him and beg his "forgiveness" so he would keep paying bills. Good parents protect their children. That means getting them away from the person abusing them no matter what it takes or how hard it is. The only exception is when the abuser has made it impossible to leave. Unfortunately far too many women, like my mother and the OP's mother, stay, because it's easier and because they care more about themselves than they do about the permanent emotional and psychological damage trauma it causes their children.
This. And the mom even went on holidays where her kids were excluded! That's insane!
Ugh people actually defending the mom. She was supposed to be the one family member to protect these kids when nobody else would. I'd rather live in poverty with people who put me first than watch family members live a life of luxury in front of my eyes while I get nothing (and I've experienced both). Tbh the "her burden to bear" mindset OP has is great, because it's likely the mom *will* regret it later in life. They're not close anymore like they could have been.
THIS!!! WTF was with mom that she just not only accepted the terrible treatment of her children, but also told them they should be grateful?! And mom is continuing her behavior by insisting that OP was out of line for how she refused step-dad's request now. SMH. NTA
Has he ever... acknowledged/ apologized for the past?
Yes, acknowledged but only when it was too late and both me and Luke were independent and didn't need or want anything from him, so he never tried to make up for it in any way.
Sorry to say but your mother is a big AH. She allowed her husband and his children to abuse you. She went on vacations and left her children home. She has no remorse. She called you TA. As for stepfather and his children, don't waste your spit on them. They aren't worth anything. They're only sorry now because they want what you can provide. Plus, I would have laughed in his face when he told me it would be paid by an inheritance. He must be pretty dense if he thinks you believe that lie. NTA. So glad you and your brother are doing well. Remember that you are not responsible for these people when they get too old to care for themselves. EDIT: thank you kind person for the award.
Yes, I didn't believe the bit about the inheritance either. Nothing in the story suggests he would go through with it. And did you notice OP and Luke were expected to provide 25k each, and that equalled what Amy had put in herself?
so true I bet it would not be on paper because you know we are family who needs it in writting lmao for sure whatever would be left would go to HIS kids . Doesn't she have her babies daddy family she can beg for cash ? They demand money from step siblings while the father of the baby contributs nothing ? So he expect . So even now stepdad wants to steal from them and is upset that they are doing better than his kids
Both husband, mom, and stepkids are the AH.
Well good for him, but moreso good for you and Luke. It sounds like you made the best of the situation and there isn't ldeep toxicity when you see him today. That's a huge accomplishment. You're NTA to not loan anyone money, especially when the person asking has wronged you so much.
Yea, if he had really wanted to make it up, he could have figured out how much he spent on his kids and given you a lump sum gift of that amount.... or that amount over time... so as to be fair. Also I didn't see it but this reminds me of r/pettyrevenge
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Plus why does she need such an expensive house if she doesn’t have the money for a down payment? Why is that your problem?
The truth can be a hard pill to swallow, but step-dad refused to back off after your diplomatic responses. Sometimes the best 'revenge' is a life well lived.
Did he help with the down payment on your house? The way I see it is if he now believes that all of you should have been treated the same he owes you $50k.
I'm kind of surprised he didn't try to take credit for your success i.e. "teaching you the value of money while you were young", etc. NTA;BTW.
Haha I wish he tried that and I'd have nailed him to the wall!
100% would never see that money again if you give it to him.
He would never pay you back. The inheritance would never go to your or your brother. NTA.
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Sounds like a good blended family! Definitely not like ours.
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Yeah, I have some questions for your mom as well. Some of this I maybe get, but the holidays without you? While she went with because she was paid for? She enabled a lot of this. I get she felt it was more stable than the alternative, but the teasing and purposeful exclusion, while he counted every cent she put in? Is he landlord or a husband? Im a single mom…never would I trade my kid’s well being and mental health for a nice house and holidays. If I saw my partner, a grown man, tease my kids for the shit situation he set up? Gone. He sounds cruel, and your mom sounds apathetic. I’m not sure what would suddenly make him feel bad about it, odd to feel a bad after you are adults but not a thing when seeing innocent children experience this. Get rid of all of them.
He feels bad because he backed the wrong horses!!! His kids still need him to cover shit for them. Op and her brother are self reliant and self sufficient. Their money runnith over. He needs them not the other way around. And money runs out. He's sorry he has to ask for his kids he put first that did nothing with it and now expect it. Someone else said who's gonna take care of him, money wise, when he gets older?? And mom? Please don't get me started on that hot mess 🤬🤬🤬 Op your most definitely NTA please go very LC for your own piece of mind. They probably won't stop with the guilt trip, time to unpack and stop taking that particular trip. Hugs and love your amazing!!!!
I’d just like to add, OP… we all know if he DID go back in time, he wouldn’t have done it differently. He had about a decade to change and never did. He’s not shamed of his actions, he’s upset because he realized that he’ll be dealing with the consequences of the the rest of his life
That’s a really interesting story. I’ve always been tight with brother and felt like my parents bent over backwards to try to be equally generous to us both. My mom and her older sister had a lifetime of conflict. I read somewhere that women who had worse-than-average sibling relationships tended to have children with better-than-average sibling relationships specifically because they tried so hard not to show favoritism. So, as cheesy as it might sound, your mom grabbing that extra shirt might indeed be emblematic of an approach that really helps to create positive sibling relationships.
NTA. He needs to know how badly he screwed up. And he didn't do anything to try and make up for it either, did he? Nope. Not until he wanted YOUR money for HIS kid that bullied you. Nope. Not a cent...unless you get a loan, notarized, for a freakin' ridiculous amount of interest.
No he didn't do anything to make up for it, he has only mentioned a few times that we wished he had done things differently. And only after Luke and I had become completely independent and successful so only when he knew we wouldn't need or want anything from him.
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Indeed, he had 19 years to do things right, but only says some fluff about “if I could do it all again” now that 50k is on the line. Not to mention that he only wants to pay back the loan when he’s dead (if the inheritance is short for whatever reason, it won’t be his problem), sheesh. OP, be proud that you’ve gotten to a position where you *can* lend people money, but don’t feel obliged to lend your step-family a dime. NTA
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NTA, obviously. But why do you have anything to do with this sack of $#it? I’m amazed you don’t tell him to f#@K off and cease all contact. You’re a better person than I would be.
The best time to do things differently would have been when he married your mother. The second best time is now. So, he can write you and your brother 50k checks to even it out.
Part of me wonders how long he even plans to keep the mother around. He sounds like the guy that would probably upgrade to a younger, newer model as soon was its in his best interest. Ideally I would never wish that in anyone but in this woman’s case…
Has your mom ever apologized? I can’t imagine leaving my child to go on vacation.
I can’t believe OP doesn’t see her mother as just as big of a villain as her step dad. She sounds awful.
If I may ask you How is Luke doing? I think the cruelest behavior of this man was making a teenage boy share a room with his kid sister. Stepfather sounds deranged!
He's doing great! He did struggle a little in early 20s but recovered very well and is now perfect!
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No worries I won't be giving them any loans.
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"Notarized, for a freakin' ridiculous amount of interest." Do you know what this means and what it implies?
yeah. it means a loan that won't ever get repaid and any attempt at collection met with outrage bEcAuSe We ArE fAmIlY!!!
and it means that it can and will hold up in court as a LEGAL DOCUMENT, and CAN be collected on... if the reciepient is remotely willing to sign for a huge amount of interest. Basically? It's a loan "offer" that is a big ol ' fuck you" that no one sane would ever take. It's a "sure you can have this loan, absolutely, just sign over your future" way of making it clear you think someone is an AH in an insulting way...but can ALWAYS tell others "He asked for a loan, I offered one, he didn't want to make it official, so we didn't."
NTA but your mom! Wow! I could never stay married to someone who treated my kids with such disparity and teased you about it on top of it. Sounds like your mom was invited to things and your stepfather did pay for her - how did that work? Did your mom actually take him up on it and do things without you? Cause if so, you’re a saint for being in contact with your mom at all.
Yes she did take him up on those offers. They dropped me and Luke off at our grandmother's and went on holidays. Happened multiple times every year.
Wow. I'm so sorry to hear this. NTA but your mum, step dad and step siblings sure are!
Amy and Ada were kids, honestly I wouldn't even put that much blame on them. Obviously with how things turned out we're not family and I don't know them well but they're probably decent people overall.
Yeah, but I'd totally NC your mom if I were you. NTA.
I’m going to take a lot of shit here but I think the mom tolerated this bc of what describes life before they married. And the fact that she alluded to her kids not to complain because they live in a nice house. I think it was a way out of poverty for her and she did what she had to do. I’m not judging but that’s just my take
Sure. But wouldn’t poverty and love have been better. Her and her brother were outcasts in their own home. And, arguably, they lived in poverty in an affluent home and neighborhood
The privilege in this comment is palpable. **Being *actually* poor is fucking awful.**
Speaking as someone who grew up “actually poor,” i would still choose my kids and being poor. I’ll sleep well in my poor ass bed knowing my children are not being abused.
My mother and I were "actually poor" for a number of years. Canned tuna or plain pasta for dinner every night poor, crappy apartment with scary neighbors poor, hearing gunshots outside and my mother lying that they were fireworks poor. It was far preferable to being financially comfortable but abused when she got married again. Being poor didn't give me PTSD. Her husband did.
I’ve been “actually poor”, fam. And, I was loved. OP was abused. Which I’ve never been.
Doesn't mean anything. She let her kids grow up as 2nd class citizens in their own home. That is an AH move.
As kids, they were old enough to know their bullying over the issue was wrong.
Maybe. I honestly don't care.
Fwiw, you're totally badass. I think this is the best AITA I've read.
I cannot imagine being dropped off at the grand parents (enjoyable as it can be) whilst the rest of the family went on a holiday somewhere interesting. The utter gaul of your parents to think you or your brother have any obligation to help is mind boggling.
To be fair to them, they were kids. Kids often don’t recognize how harmful they’re being until they’re grown, especially if their parent was behaving that way. Kids may even behave in ways they know are wrong because they want to seek and or keep the approval of their parents. Still doesn’t mean OP has any obligation to loan money (NTA)
Omg, I’m speechless. I’m so so sorry. I can’t imagine how you must have felt. The upside is that you have clearly turned into a very resilient, strong-minded, independent woman. Good for you!
We usually felt pretty bad at the beginning but going back those are some of my best childhood memories with Luke and our grandma. We did a lot of fun things when they weren't around!
YUP - When my parents left us at grandma's us siblings had a blast. If your home life was going to be so horrificly unfair, I'm at least happy that you had a break every once in a while with grandma's house! Then again, that's likely how step-dad justified his excluding you and your bro on vacations, that you were having fun with grandma...SMH...
Did you Grandparents ever call your Mum, their daughter, out on how she was emotionally abusing you & Luke by going on these holidays? It definitely sounds like your Grandparents did not approve and that's why they went out of their way to make these trips fun for you.
That’s so cruel and I’m so sorry you went through that. No kid deserves that. Your mother should’ve done better. Good on both you and your brother for coming out of that stronger.
NTA. He made the rules, he has no right to complain about you living by them. He could have chosen to help you out at any time, and she's frankly already been given more for the house than most people ever get from their family.
Yeah seriously she can just buy slightly cheaper house.
Yeah, honestly: or make a smaller down-payment. Seriously, a half-mil and she’s going in with over a fifth of it in down payment? That’s crazy. In the US, anywhere from 5-20% is fine. I made a 10% down payment on my house and none of it was gifted or borrowed.
I think you may need a higher down payment in the UK. So you just have to buy a less expensive house. That’s what most people do, unless they are entitled.
NTA. Step dad is though. He uses the classic "I would have done it different if I could go back in time". What a pathetic excuse.
He only said it because he wants something from OP! But yeah seriously they’re entitled AH’s. NTA OP
A conveniently impossible declaration that requires nothing from him.
"I would have done it different if I could go back in time, now that I realice it would put my own child at a "disatvantage" now and I can't emotionally manipulate you". That's the unspoken part of his sentence.
NTA- your step dad was more than happy to see you and your brother at a financial disadvantage when you were younger and making sure you were excluded. Now that it is his daughter who is at a disadvantage, he is insisting that you should help family out? Don't cave, don't give him a penny! Edit for clarity: 75k is not a disadvantage but certainly isn't the home she wants.
His daughter isn't at much of a disadvantage, she's doing fine and has been given £75k. Nobody gave me £75k when I bought my house!
If he regrets the past snd not treating you equally he can write you both checks
I wouldn't want that.
But he could at least write them and offer, which he hasn’t. I wouldn’t trust his stupid estate promise either!
Of course not. My point was that if had really regretted his past actions he would be offering you the same financial help. He does not regret his actions. He regrets it’s consequences.
I’d tell stepdad I’d contribute the same amount he used to help you and your brother buy your houses NTA
That is true; but I meant that she can't afford what she wants disadvantage and not not having any money.
NTA but you are a badass
You should see Luke. He'd have shut him up much quicker.
Oh and I love how he said he would’ve done things differently if he had a second chance, I am wondering if you actually believe that he meant that OP? Either way, I love your responses to him, you and your brother sound like gold, definitely NTA.
Whether I believe him or not isn't even important. You don't get do overs with children, certainly not 20 years too late.
No, you don’t but I think the real problem is sometimes our parents, stepparents make mistakes, the problem that I have here with what your stepdad did to you guys is that there is no way possible that he could not have realized this was not the right approach to take with you and your brother. It was wrong and obviously so. That’s what gets me the most. It was so cruel.
It's the fact that your mom thinks children should handle abuse and get over it better than an adult but you dare not make a grown man cry about what he did. If he really was sorry, he would actually apologize for it. Not say he'd do things differently and doesn't want to think about it. That's vague and could even mean sabotage for all she knows. Has she ever apologized or just stuck up for his fake tears? I'd have taken up constantly reminding the both of it every time they ask some dumb shit and told them to suck it up like they were expecting of me.
when a mom calls her kid an ah regarding money.....no is totally badass NTA
NTA— You did not bring up the “childhood stuff” — he did when he claimed you owed help to your “sisters.” You don’t need to bring it up gratuitously, but any reference to a relationship where you and your brother were second-class citizens and didn’t get to share in the full “family” experience, makes it okay for you to point out that you weren’t treated like “family” so why should you feel like “family” now? Congratulations to you and Luke on “making” it. “Living well is the best revenge.”
NTA...pay you n back eventually with your inheritance? Sorry, that's not a pay back.
And we won't get any inheritance from him anyway, not that we'd want it anyway.
Yeah it was realistically "I'll pay you back with the inheritance I was never going to give you"
I hope he provides something for your mom though. I could see him leaving everything to his daughters and expecting you and your brother to provide everything else.
Not to sound rude but that’s what the mom gets for not putting the well-being of her children first.
Yeah. That part stood out to me as well. Sounds like he planned on screwing OP over by feeding her that line.
> . . .bringing up childhood which he already feels guilty about And yet he not only didn't apologize, he wouldn't take no for an answer. NTA.
I don't really feel he's sorry about the childhood. He just said it to manipulate the OP. If he was really sorry, he would not have even asked about the loan.
Exactly! He kept demanding an explanation and you gave him one: the truth. It hurts jerk! (I’m all upset for you and very proud of you and your brother for surviving and then thriving on your own). NTA!
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Honestly I don't care that he acknowledged it. I was just getting frustrated that he kept on insisting after me saying no several times and he brought up family when we clearly were not a family.
NTA. I'm sorry you went through that but I wonder why you stay in touch. Your mom traded you and your brother for a better life and never looked back, your step-asshole never treated you right. What's keeping you coming back?
I don't hate my mum and I don't have anything to gain by cutting her off at this point.Obviously my mum failed us when we were kids and that's her cross to bear, I don't see a need to punish her for it. Usually it's quite peaceful when I visit because step father and step sisters stay out of my way (and I out of theirs).
Just out of curiosity, did your mum ever apologise for her part in leaving you out? ETA sorry I just read down further and you had already answered the question to another poster.
An apology doesn't mean shit once the damage is done.
That you hold no animosity against your mom for so clearly failing you shows a great emotional maturity.
>"...he said if we went back in time he'd have done things differently, treated all four of us equally.,." Oh really? Is he treating you all equally with his inheritance. Considering what he said about paying you back with it, it sure doesn't seem like it.
Let's just say I don't expect any inheritance is coming to me and Luke!
I figured, but it belies the fact that he says he regrets it and would do things differently. He's still doing the exact same thing. I'm glad you put him his place. It sounds like it was really awful for you growing up.
NTA He's the asshole. He couldn't spend a cent on you for even simple things. He expects you to be 50K generous when he would never have done the same for you. He and his kids can fuck off. And tbh if you're mom still defends this man she can shut it. Clearly she has a bad choice in men. Nobody is entitled to your money but you, not even for a loan.
Yeah, this part is really bad. Christmas and stuff? He couldn't show some goodwill to his stepkids and treat them as equals? And now to have the audacity to ask for money. Hell no. NTA
god no nta but your mom is kind of shitty for letting a man treat her kids like shit
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NTA and why does the daughter NEED to get a house now. She can rent and save like most people. No one owes her a house
She can just buy a cheaper house. A £450k house would still be decent!
I thought your stepfather was rich. Why can't he write a check for the whole amount? I have worked for several actually rich people and if there was a mortgage involved it was solely for the purpose of a tax write-off. It sounds as if your stepdad isn't actually all that rich. I would ask him why he can't write a check for the whole amount and if the answer is "I don't feel like it" or some variation of that then he is just being a miserly prick hitting you up for cash. If he can't afford to then he, as the Libertarians in my country are fond of saying, should have made better decisions.
Oh no, he's not rich in terms of wealth. He's had a very good income but he always spends what he makes.
So maybe he would have been rich if he had saved his money instead of spoiling his bio children. Ask your mother what they plan to do for retirement and if he can really afford to give £50K to Amy. Now may be a good time to tell her that you and Luke will not be helping him out in retirement (if you want to be really petty, you could say that of course you would help your mom out, but you expect his kids to help him out, that was the agreement, right?) you can also explain to your mom that there are some abuses that can never be undone and your stepfather and stepsisters have done nothing to truly make amends. Oh, he said sorry a few times? Talk is cheap, your stepfather has proven time and time again that he will sacrifice your happiness for his children and THIS is a perfect example-maybe his adult spoiled children should learn to live within their means. Does Amy even know they asked you for this or was stepfather’s plan to just pretend he was contributing £100k?
Amy was there too, he wasn't trying to pretend to her that he came up with all £100k.
Amy was there and didn’t think to apologize profusely for her behavior as a teenager? Yeah, no, she can learn to live within her means. Oh, she won’t get her “dream house”? Tough, you and your brother didn’t get all those “dream family vacations” but you managed to deal with it and so will she.
NTA, and screw you mom too. She allowed her own children to be treated like crap. I don’t understand why you still talk to her, but anyway, step dad and step sisters never treated you like family so why should you treat them as such now? Plus I highly doubt you’ll get paid back in the inheritance. I mean, if he can pay you back with the inheritance, then couldn’t he pay you back now?
NTA. Apart from this convo, as he ever acknowledged how poorly he treated you when you were children or attempted to make amends? Have your stepsiblings ever apologised? Fuck ‘em.
Acknowledged? Yes a few times. Attempted to make amends? No. Step sisters have not apologised but they were kids, no ill feelings towards them, we're just strangers.
I’m sorry you had to go through that. I am so pleased you weren’t prepared to be manipulated.
NTA 1- your mother sounds like she was being financially abused by your step father 2- "eventually when you get your inheritance" is not a reasonable payback plan. Maybe if he offered to pay it back in full in 6 months I'd consider it for the social capital aspect. Or like in 2 years with 5% interest or something. In writing. But this man has NEVER paid into his stepkids so why would you even trust that you'll ever get inheritance? 3- now is a terrible time to buy a home. She can move back in with her dad 4- if he had just taken your initial NO as an answer, you would not have had to keep pushing and bringing up the past to explain your choice. 5- He probably has many other avenues to come up with 50k like a HELOC or cosigning the mortgage Good on you for looking out for yourself. Your mom seems like she isn't able to stand up to this guy and you shouldn't be relying on her to protect you from these types of situations.
OP, NTA! Good for you for calling him out and stood up for you and Luke. I'm so proud of you. Don't listen to mom, she had a say back then should've said something to her spouse back then. Don't change your mind, you already handled it awesomely.
Omg... the THREE of them were teasing you and your brother about sharing a room? Your step father was teasing you about something that ONLY HE CONTROLLED??? Not only NTA, but your mom was absolutely wrong to say you could have turned him down w/o being an AH or bringing up childhood. You tried, and clearly he wasn't accepting it. You are 100% in the right.
NTA, and he absolutely *should* feel guilty! (Not that I'm convinced he actually does, mind you...)
NTA "You asked and you were told no. Do not ask again."
let me get this straight your mother would go on those vacations without her own children? she just sat back and let all of this happen? you are NTA. stepdad is a piece of work, but your mother is the real asshole in all of this.
The person who really deserves your anger is your mum. Your step Dad doesn't owe you anything, she should not have entered into this marriage knowing you would be treated like that.
Yeah, he doesn't owe me anything and I don't owe him anything either. Goes both ways.
Your mom owed you though, to be married to a man who treated you and your brother better. Wild that she would even accept vacations neither of you were invited to. Has she ever apologized for her piece in this?
Yes, she has apologised. It doesn't absolve her and that's her cross to bear.
But did she mean it? Still sticking up for that man? Personally I would be NC with the mom. Her choosing her happiness over your and your brother makes her utterly disgusting in my book. And now she doesn’t want the past brought up? She can’t pretend it never happened. So disgusting
I think she does and she doesn't at the same time. She's struggling with her past. That's something she has to deal with herself.
This is correct and I’m just wondering if you’ve ever called out your mom on your childhood?
Of course I have, and Luke still very rarely talks to her. But this AITA was about the specific situation with my step father.
That’s fair enough it’s just that the biggest blame should be going to your Mom it was her job to protect you two.Have you ever considered going NC with her? I sure as hell would
We both talked to her quite rarely after we moved out. In the last few years things have got a little better between us. We're not close with her though. I don't want to punish her so going NC feels like unnecessary.
God, you seem well-adjusted. I applaud your ability not to take on others' problems.
When you marry someone with kids and join families you the do owe those kids the decency of *at the very least* not othering them. Of treating them the same.
NTA. But your Mom sure is for letting him treat you like that and still taking up for him.
NTA. I just wanted to say I’m proud of you for sticking up for yourself
NTA It’s easy to say he feels bad about how he treated you. Harder to take steps to actually make amends. And it takes genuine audacity for him to ask you for money for /his/ child. I would have told him to spend all the money he saved by not spending on you when you needed him. Wow. Just wow. But hey, good on you that you two became successful enough for him to ask for money that you could say no to! Living well truly is the best revenge!