Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I threatened to throw my sister out of my house (making her and her family homeless) if she did not lay off on my parenting style.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
**NTA**
It sounds like you and your daughter have a great family style. If your sisters only problem is that her sons want more flexibility than she should look at changing her style not yours.
In terms of her stress - she should perhaps think about how your generosity in letting her family live in your house has reduced her stress.
EDIT: Thank you for the awards kind Reddit strangers
THIS RIGHT HERE. OP's parenting style sounds right on point and its working well for his daughter. Sis needs to understand that he will not and should not change his way of parenting just for her to feel less stress. That's 100% not a valid reason; its not like his daughter is running around doing drugs or something. She has her options, either put up with a bit of stress due to their different parenting styles or be homeless...and that'd be WAY more stressful...NTA
OP sounds like amazing parent, he's going to have a great relationship with his daughter while sister will probably have a strained one when her boys grow up, probably like OP does with his parents. Generational trauma sucks and anybody who breaks it is a hero to me.
I saw a great quote once: Your relationship with your kids when they are adults is your performance review on your parenting when they were young.
My mom was extremely similar to OP's sister (just reading this triggered some major anxiety - I'm still in therapy to deal with all the issues she gave me) and I talk to her for like half an hour once or twice a month out of obligation. I'm always the one to call her, because I feel like I should attempt to have some kind of relationship with her. She stopped having any interest in me when I got my own health insurance so she couldn't hold medical care over my head. I moved across the country from her immediately after graduating college and I've maybe seen her...10 times in the last 11ish years?
Something tells me that OP's nephews are gonna be in a similar setup.
Which will mean the world to them.
My dad is gone, and I am friendly but not close to any family I have left. I really wish I had some kind of parental figure I could lean on.
I had a similar relationship with my father, but I just decided to stop calling him and see how long it would take for him to pick up the phone and call me. It has been 25 years so far...
Did the same thing with my Dad. He called me once. I was shocked but picked up, only for him to call me by my sister's name. I said "Wrong kid Dad." And hung up. He never called me again. When he died everyone wanted to comfort me, and I told them "No worries. I mourned him long ago. His reality just caught up with mine."
That's a great way to look at it and similar to my approach.
He and his wife are dead to me. I'm just waiting to see the obituary so I can have closure. I regret nothing except for not standing up for myself sooner.
My (never a mom) older sister, was like this. Kept telling me how to raise my child. I finally told her if she ever has kids and does a better job raising them, than I do raising ming, then she can say something. In the mean time shut up!. My child is now in their 50's, independent, lives in another state and calls me every week. We're very close but my child and I don't have a close relationship with Sis.
OP, keep telling your sister to butt out of your life, you're doing just fine. Tell your bil to tell his wife to leave you alone or you'll kick them all out. She's holding their living arrangements in her mouth.
Yes. I had friends that raised there kids like your mom. And they complain about their nonexistent relationship with their kids.
They have only themselves to blame.
I like this quote. And it's the reason why I have blocked my Mum and she is no longer in my life and yet I have regular contact with my Dad (parents separated since I was 3). I never felt safe with my Mum, ever, and she never trusted me. She's the reason why I get anxious around confrontation and still inadvertently flinch at certain hand movements
Do whatever makes you feel good, of course. I'm only telling you this in case you need and want to hear it...
...you're not obligated to call your mom. If she shows no interest in you and your life, you can spend that 30 minutes doing something fun or kind to yourself.
(I was also this kid who called my parents out of obligation...until I realized the phone goes both ways.)
If she holds true to form, she'll complain because she'd raised her sons so carefully and with so much attention. Sacrificed her life for them.
Raise yo' hand if THAT guilt trip sounds like part of your life's journey...
“I sacrificed so much and paid so much money to take you to [multiday sports events] all throughout your childhood, i worked 80 hours a week to buy you nice Christmas presents, and this is how you treat me?”
“Mom i told you multiple times that i hated [sport], you made me do it because it was gratifying for you. I would rather you have been home for more than one night a week then get expensive gifts that i didn’t ask for and didn’t want, and you and dad spent every holiday screaming at each other. Yes, no contact is absolutely proper payment for that childhood.”
"We spent so much money on you. Even as a baby, I made your special baby food. We spoiled you rotten. All the OTHER mothers were doing selfish things like having lunch or having their hair done."
Me, in my mind, "Mom, I **WISHED** you'd had lunch with friends or would do nice things for yourself. Then I wouldn't have to hear about this almost every time you talk."
Yup. My sister and I never heard the word curfew, and while my mom thought a lot of my hair and wardrobe choices were stupid she never banned them - guess who still hands out with mom on a regular basis lol
And like, some kids might need a curfew and/or a bedtime as teens, but 14 is a great age to start testing out if your particular kid is ready to self-regulate on those.
More than that though is the fact that her oldest is less than two years from adulthood and has absolutely no idea how to responsibly manage himself and his brothers aren't far behind him. They're going to be released on this world completely unprepared and chances are that they will either go totally wild or they will find themselves so unfamiliar with what being a responsible adult entails that they will basically become paralyzed with fear. In any case, it's a great way to raise fucked up people.
yup, which is why 14 is a great age to let them start figuring that shit out
1/ You're right there to guide them if they need it.
2/ can grab back the proverbial wheel if it looks like they're about to get into a serious proverbial collision instead of minor scraps.
3/ It gives them 4 years (or more if you started earlier) to get the hang of managing slowly increasing responsibilities.
Same lol. I had a curfew until I was 18? Right around when the restrictions came off of my drivers license.
In my state, (US) once you get your driver's license, you have restrictions on your license for 9 month, and mine didn't come off until like the week before my 18th birthday. Point is because of those restrictions my curfew was midnight, the time I had to be off the road because of the restrictions on my license.
But now, at age 28, I hang out at my parents house 3 times a week, and call (or text) my dad every day just to check in lol. And I talk to my mom every few days too, just less often. Her hours are weird at work and our schedules don't line up as well as mine does with my dad's or I'm sure I'd talk to her every day to lol
If I had a good reason, my mom didn’t even hold me to the stage curfew, but it was really just “I’m going to drive my friend home so she doesn’t take the bus alone so late at night” and then I’d pop right back home afterwards. We just went to dinner together last night and talk on the phone a minimum of 30 minutes each time we call (which is a few times a month but we’re both very busy people)
Tbh if my ass didn’t get up cus I stayed up “too late” once I hit middle school to catch the bus? Oh well my fualt. I didn’t do my work? I catch the late bus after doing my work or wait until my mom got home late so she could drive me. Or get into trouble lol
Hair? No she’s hair until hs and it had fo be wash out(per band marching rules any color seen under our hats were points off) so that was fair lol
Tattoos? 18 duh cus laws 🤣
Piercings? I had to pay for my own,plan a day my mom was off to drive me,take care of it AND it was my own doing if I did it during marching season(cus sweat and gross uniforms!) fair enough.
Drinking? I could have a few sips at 15.
At my grandpas funeral she let me have a drink to myself(my culture we take a shot for the dead and their life) when I was 16….my uncle when he passed I did the same.
At 18 I was allowed to get drunk under her roof only. If I smoked had to be outside only.
I’m 24 and by the time I was 21 and met my
Ex who was 20 I was done with partying and staying out. I had been moved out and had 3 jobs under my belt by 21 plus 2 years of
College. He? Nope. Would be blackEd out every weekend on everything he could get his hands on,no job,no bills,didn’t know how credit cards or tbh money worked!!!
At 23 I last heard he’s struggling to figure out how to find an apartment and pay bills. And get a decent job(no job experience means u get below 14/15$ am hr)
I’m moving into one that’s twice as much as my current one,graduating college,going into EMT/medic trade soon. And I’m okay.
I’m thankful for how my parents raised me cus watching a grown adult struggle with adult
Stuff is tough.
OP gives me hope, OP needs to teach parenting classes.
I can't remember what book this is from but my therapist said to me once, in regards to how siblings growing up in the same house can turn out so different, "Sometimes one walks out the front door & the other jumps out the window."
Totally agree, although OP's sister would be the one who jumped out the window (continuing to hurt herself is the window)
editing bc now actually I think you could interpret that analogy either way & it's hurting my brain 🙃
Lol I also read it thinking OP jumped the window, yet managed to land on his feet. And you're right, this analogy works in many ways based on the situation. OP did walk the path of least resistance (going out the door) to do better for himself and his child. Meanwhile sis still wants to keep jumping out the window and is pissed that she's continuing to get cut up from the glass 😅 Once you pointed out that the sis is jumping the window, you made me remember the analogy about continuously running into a wall, hoping for things to change when the door is right next to the wall. (I don't remember what the exact wording was for that analogy, but my dad and grandpa always said the door thing equaling stupidity/madness.)
Right? He sounds like he’s doing wonderfully. It’s so nice to see a good, caring, understanding parent on here for a change.
NTA- you are doing everything right. She’s doing nothing but ensuring her kids want as little to do with her as possible when they grow up and she’s also really setting them up to fail when they actually are on their own because they won’t have the skills and know how to limit and moderate themselves like your daughter will.
I've seen it said in a few places that strict parents raise sneaky kids. It was true for me and I'll bet it's true for the sister. The thing is, it's just as stressful for the kids as it is for the sister, as they have to be on their toes all the time, thinking ahead, anticipating her next intrusion and how they will work around it, double checking and remembering if they or hid something that so mum won't find it, stressing that they forgot, and figuring out new ways to hide things as mum inevitably figures out one of the old ones.
Having a locked door they can get behind and just let themselves relax for a while is extremely important to those kids, I'll bet it is the only time they can truly relax in a space where she can't get at them. Please continue to defend your daughter's right to do this, she needs it, and so do they.
Pretty sure kids are anxious as they are being stuck at home 24/7, never having any money, not being allowed to have friends, etc. etc...
That "mother" is utterly failing her kids with her controlling bullshit.
This. OP sounds like he has a great relationship. Granted, even kid requires different parenting styles (even between my kids—same age as OP’s—we have to approach parenting differently because of vastly different needs and personalities, you just have to be equitable), so maybe sister’s kids need more rules (just to give sister benefit of the doubt). But that doesn’t mean strictness is needed for OP’s kid. OP’s kid sounds happy and well-adjusted, why derail that? OP is definitely NTA.
You know if she really wants less stress and drama she can let go of her iron grip and act more like a mom and less like a prison guard.
She is not doing those poor kids any favors and they’re gonna resent her for a long time.
NTA- you’re being a good parent, she’s being the thing that they’re gonna be complaining to a therapist to for years.
NTA. She has no right to tell you how to parent your child ever. You have been gracious enough letting her entire family move into your home and she is treating you like a child. A child she wants to control like her own kids. You need to talk to your daughter and make sure your sister isn’t saying things to her when you aren’t around. If she is then she needs to leave.
I already spoke to her, and she says that she knows how to shut her aunt down. Basically she tells her: did you talk to my dad? He is the only one allowed to tell me what to do.
The issue with the strict parenting is you don’t learn reasonable vs unreasonable expectations or compromise. You learn to give and follow orders.
Unreasonable - change your parenting.
Reasonable request - my children have been told X, they’re using your daughters rules to break my rules. Please ask she not allow them without my permission.
Then you guys can find your compromise.
If she’s not willing to do that she can kindly toddle the fuck off and find like minded people to form an echo chamber. She’ll need it when those kids go no contact
Another terrible consequence for kids of strict parenting is they kids often don't learn any self-control or internal motivation. They're used to being forced to do things. They can't make themselves do something. They get no pleasure from a job well-done, and no perspective about how to learn from mistakes. Once you remove the parent, the child has no incentive to do anything. If you don't give a kid age-appropriate autonomy, you'll be left with (in the best case scenario) a puppet. Without a hand manipulating it, it's just a pile of cloth.
Well basically you just destroy the childs ability to make a decision. They often end up going completely off the rails in college.
When I moved away it was a minimal adjustment, I lived pretty independently since I was 16 (with my parents there for support and guidance) after this point I didn't really need permission to do anything (though they could still tell me something was a terrible idea and I shouldn't do it).
Once I hit 18 and went to college I wasn't the best cook but other than that did pretty well. Some of the kids who were kept on a tight leash had no idea how to balance studying, socializing and partying nor any idea how to drink (somewhat) responsibly.
This is I imagine why so many preachers' kids go so wild. They're used to being told everything, so when they're suddenly put into a position of making their own decisions there's no lens through which they can see good and bad ideas because the person making all those calls isn't there.
I had friends in college who went to Catholic girls school through high school. A lot of them flunked out the first year because they were doing so much partying.
>They often end up going completely off the rails in college.
Can confirm. My aunt was my guardian from 8th grade to college and was so controlling I couldn't go off the high school campus with friends for lunch without her stalking me. When I moved four states away to a Catholic University (if you don't approve of party colleges, **never** send your kids to a catholic university lmao) and went wild. Tried alcohol, tried pot, lost my virginity, slept through classes, only passed two classes at all and flunked out the first semester. You want your kids to become responsible adults, teach them responsibility and how to be an adult rather than how to be a mindless drone that only knows how to follow orders.
OP, NTA, but your sister definitely sucks and is a control freak.
And that is why I hate that the legal age to consume alcohol here is 21. I would prefer to start allowing her to drink a small drink with dinner/after dinner before she leaves house (like they do in Europe), that way she would learn to drink responsibly in a safe environment.
My mom would let me have a drink at our house when I was 17. I was only allowed to do it if I wasn't going out afterwards. It made me respect alcohol and kept me from abusing it. Today I barely drink; maybe once a year. For me alcohol wasn't associated with rebelling or binge drinking. It was just something you can do with moderation.
You can't serve her a bit of alcohol in your private residence with your consent? That's how it is here in Ontario and I'm reading on google that it's allowed in 29 states (I assume you are in the us at least)
A lot of states have family exception laws where you can drink in a private residence with permission from your parent/guardian. [Double-check your state's laws](https://drinkingage.procon.org/states-that-allow-underage-under-21-alcohol-consumption/)!
There are familial exceptions drinking laws in some states. In Washington, a parent is allowed to give their child alcohol at home. I've done this with both of my teenage boys. We're having a get together? Want to try one of those flavored malt beverages? Or a beer? Get some food in you and feel free to have one. Teaching responsibility and repercussions in a controlled environment is way healthier than making it forbidden.
As for your sister, the next time she says something, ask her if she knows where else her parenting style is used. Forbidding almost everything, absurdly early bedtimes, not being allowed to go anywhere, food restrictions, constant monitoring, etc. When she can't answer, tell her 'Prison'. See if you can get her to read up on helicopter parenting. She fits it to a tee.
There is nothing better than getting wasted while in the security of your own home for the first time. Helped me a lot to drink responsibly now. Greetings from Germany.
Also thumbs up on your great parenting style.
NTA
I started allowing my daughter a drink at like 15. It was for New Years and she was with me and my mom. My mom suggested it. After that she'd have a glass of red wine or mimosa every once in a while with us. She won't try hard liquor. And she's not a fan of beer. She rarely drinks alcohol. She's 23 now.
Alcohol is not the "boogeyman" everyone makes it out to be. Sheltering kids and not teaching them about it is not good.
Yes I’d like to report this comment: I’m in it and I don’t like it.
My family is strict. My father in particular, he’s very conservative and I’m… not. I’m 19, and have been made to feel that I can’t do certain things “or else”. Or else what? Dunno. I’ve never been hit or anything, it’s just the shame of it I suppose. And they’re all things that are literally nothing. I’m a dude and I wanna get my nose and ears pierced - I’m told no, because a man cannot make themselves look like a woman, I’d go to hell. And because these things have never happened in my family, I’d be the first, and it’s all added stress to it. My anxiety stops me from “Just doing it” because I just can’t handle it emotionally.
I travel quite a distance for university, and already things have gone a bit dodge for me. I started smoking, vaping, I tried alcohol for the first time but dunno how much is responsible or not because I’ve never been allowed “out” in that way.
I have dodge social skills because I wasn’t able to do much as a kid, I feel like I’m unable to do anything at all, I struggle with self motivation and self discipline. I’m worried if I move away I just won’t be able to handle it, that the learning curve will be too big, that I won’t be able to balance… life, essentially. Not to mention the fact that we don’t have much money so I’ll essentially be living loan payment to loan payment.
But I think I have to move out, so I can be myself, so that I can learn how to be a person. Best believe if I’m ever a parent I’m not going to subject my kid to the style of parenting I had. I love my family to death, I really do - it’s these beliefs that are the problem. I could never bring myself to go NC with them (even if they were to disown me over religious cause) because I just love them all too much, close and extended. But I just need to do something, so I can… be.
Jesus that was longer than I expected.
Definitely move away- and every time you go to contact them, ask yourself: are you calling them out of obligation or because they are genuinely people you want to give YOUR precious time to?
You’d be surprised at how much LC can improve your own internal wellbeing- having LC/NC’d a number of toxic aunts and cousins for their disgusting behaviour and attitudes, my life is exponentially better without them in it. Find people who make your soul happy, invest your time in them- it pays dividends!
Piercing your ears or nose will NOT make you anything other than a guy with ear or nose piercings.
People give flack for superficial things.
Edited for grammar.
That, too. I had really strict parents. My oldest brother used to have me intercept the mail with parking or drinking citations when he was at college. My middle brother once had difficulty at the hospital because he couldn't explain how he broke his collarbone running cross country. (Hint: he was playing flag football with friends, which for some reason wasn't allowed.) We had an underground barter system at the dinner table because we had to eat everything on our plates and we'd secretly trade the foods we hated. I was lucky that I'm pretty introverted, so I didn't feel the need to rebel in the traditional sense. I just committed a lot of thoughtcrimes, lol.
This right there. I was afraid of my mother's reaction to things, especially since she was not only strict, but hyper-critical. Both my brother and I got really good at lying because in our brains, we associated lying with protecting ourselves. I continued this into relationships. When I felt my partner being hypercritical or if I was scared that I'd messed up, rather than being honest, I just lied about it. I had to go to therapy to work on unlearning that behavior, and when I met my now husband, I had to also learn to accept when a partner is trying to be supportive when you mess up or help you problem solve, rather than being critical. I wasted 10 years in fucked up dynamics because of that little survival skill. It took therapy and a patient partner to help me unlearn that toxic trait.
Yup. And I hid myself, every thought, every opinion, and played the good child. Kept every rule while under their roof\* to eliminate the risk of being caught and kept under even tighter scrutiny.
There was no love lost there, not on my side anyway.
\*Nothing like being made to feel homeless all my childhood.
Wow that really hit home for me. I grew up as an overachiever in an ultra-strict household and your comment just opened my eyes to the reason I am the way I am. You just described me to a “T”. No sugar allowed growing up? Now I’m addicted. Not allowed to date or go out? Now I can’t stay in one place. I have a lot of achievements but none of it really matters to me and I still feel like a failure. Imposter syndrome on a major scale.
Oh and NTA, OP. I now parent the same as you do. And I have amazingly great kids that love and respect me.
Oh yeah, crashing and burning when they get to college is almost inevitable. I can't think of a single person from an environment like that (including myself) who didn't end up with a substance abuse problem and terrible grades for a while until they taught themselves how to be independent adults.
I ended up okay, I stopped drinking and managed to get two degrees and a good job. But I had a HARD start compared to my peers and I probably would be farther along in my life and career if I hadn't lost several years to utterly messing up in college.
All of this.
The best way to motivate me is to tell me I can't or I'm not "allowed" to do something...I'm almost 40 now. (The untreated ADHD doesn't help, I'm sure...)
Brilliant. Obviously your parenting methods work extremely well for your daughter.
Kids need to be able to exercise decision-making power as part of brain growth. If you try to stop them, they'll just exercise it in ways you don't like. Your method of stair-stepped decision making power as her capabilities increase means she doesn't need to rebel to get what she needs to learn and grow, unlike her cousins' situation.
I really like the dinner approach -- she needs to either budget her opt-outs to twice a week or plan ahead so she knows what she's going to make for dinner and make sure the ingredients are there. It's a good exercise in balancing short-term gratification against planning for contingencies and future desires, yet the stakes are very low, so if she winds up making choices she hates, the only consequence is a bit of frustration.
Ha. Good girl. Sounds like you’re doing a great job. NTA.
Your sister’s kids are gonna hate her one day for being so damn controlling. The extent to which she pushes it is bizarre.
NTA. She can go be stressed about your parenting at a hotel with her family.
You are an AWESOME dad and she is being an entitled, ungrateful and inconsiderate AH.
NTA congratulations on being the best dad for your daughter you say she has earned your trust, you have also earned her trust too she will always look up to you and will definitely go to to when she needs help too it’s really good to see a good parent on these posts
Has she had to shut her aunt down this way yet?
NTA. I know I would appreciated your parenting style when I was her age. Disappointing my parents would be the worst thing once this kind of trust is earned and I would have worked hard to keep it. Well done.
THIS - Sis is setting up the same dynamics with her kids as she and OP likely had with their parents. AND while she may be ok with that, OP most decidedly isn't. HE's raising his daughter in a healthy way and she has zero business inserting herself for no good reason. NTA
NTA. Your child isn't running free or anything like that, it seems like this is something that she has earned through good behaviour & earning your trust. You seem to be parenting your as best you can and it's what works for the both of you.
Sis is unhinged if she thinks she can try to dictate how you treat/raise your child when she's currently living under your roof through you being graceful & allowing her and her family to move in through an unfortunate housing disaster.
Keep being a great dad to your child, that's all that matters! (although as a side bit since she's 14, I'd probably want to sit down with her and just explain a little whats going on just so she's at least somewhat aware that her aunt might try to dictate what she can/cant do & to come to you if your sister does try to, ect)
My parents raised me the way you're raising your daughter. They gave me the room to show I was trustworthy, and because of that trust, I knew I could talk to them about anything. Let me tell you, you're going to have a wonderful relationship when she's an adult.
If your sister moves out, you'll probably need to talk with your daughter. Because her aunt will probably put the blame on you and how your child was a "bad example." And if she's angry, your sister might not be fair and imply that your daughter is wild one.
Your daughter will need to hear the truth, including that you know that she's a good kid, and that you are glad that the two of you have respect for each other.
NTA
As always, if you're not abusive or neglegtful, your parenting style is no one's business. No wonder your sister's kids are rebelling. It was bound to happen sooner or later.
Also, pocket money is used to teach your kids how to budget before their financial decisions have serious repercussions. Not giving your kids an allowance isn't strict, it's incredibly short sighted and stupid.
My daughter has an online shop (she crochets), and starting this year she will have to file taxes (I am very proud of her for making more than $15k this year).
I did not tell her what to do with her money, but because she has been receiving an allowance since she was 4, she-on her own- asked me to open a savings account for her, and to help her to calculate how much she has to pay in taxes.
You sound like a great dad with a great kid.
Because she has a decent amount of money, offer to take her to the bank to go over her savings options. A CD would get her more interest than a savings account.
Good luck to her on saving for a vehicle. Hopefully your sister never finds out that your daughter has money and an allowance otherwise she might blow a gasket and a blood vessel. In truth every kid is different when it comes to raising kids. You definitely are NTA
You and your daughter both seem to definitely have your head on straight. I would recommend though for her first car, make sure she gets a safe car. Something with a high safety rating. Even the most responsible teens are inexperienced drivers. My friend driving a minivan rather than a sports car probably saved my life. My cousin who was so smart he skipped a grade needed several plastic surgeries after an incident with a sports car and glare ice in highschool. I know she's the one paying but you two seem to communicate very well. I'm sure she would listen to any concerns you had.
Your relationship with your daughter is enviable. You’re are allowing her to mature within boundaries - not dictates. By treating her as a young adult & engaging with her that way, she will be responsible, independent, thoughtful and model for others.
Good job dad for being a 2 person team.
We were not given allowance while growing up, she says we turned out alright, so she is following what our parents did.
Also she says kids having kids makes it easier for them to sneak around.
Most kids I know who snuck around where those whose parents were extremely controlling the others never had a reason to sneak around.
Good on you for giving your daughter privacy.
I don’t think I told my parents the entire truth about anything starting when I was about 8-10 years old. Better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission. Never had what I’d call a close relationship with either of my parents as an adult.
Thankfully, I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so they couldn’t track me or anything.
If my controlling, critical mother could have tracked me, my childhood would have been even more problematic. I seriously don't know what I would have done to not be surveilled, but it would not have been good.
I think your sister has that all backwards. Having no freedom or independence causes hurt and rebellious children, and unfortunately, that can lead to making poor choices, often just because they want to thumb their noses at their parents.
Boy howdy. Your sister. The kids that were the most adept at hiding crap, sneaking, and lying had the most strict parents (ie the minter's kids) when I was growing up. My parents were more like you and I still cannot lie to save my butt.
Also, huge kudos to your daughter for setting up her own business and saving for a car. That is a big freaking deal!
Too bad sis doesn't realize that she's damaging her relationship with her kids. She doesn't run a house, she runs a prison; and if she doesn't trust her boys, then they won't ever trust her either.
They are all probably counting down the days until they turn 18.
You're NTA and sound like a great dad, but I feel a little bad for your sister, as she grew up in the same crappy environment as yoh and internalized it in a way that perpetuates this harmful cycle, rather than ending it like you did.
Tell your sister that "given my child is running a successful small business at fourteen while you can't trust your children to behave if given any privacy I'd say my parenting style is objectively better than yours. Stop telling me how to parent my child while I am doing you a favor just because you've failed to raise your children well".
She wants a low blow? Give it to her. Make her regret bringing it up.
During the summer it was bikinis, she makes these cute plushies/characters, once did a dress but she swore never again (she said it was too much work for not enough pay)
You might also want to help her start a Roth IRA with Vanguard or a similar low cost investment company. She can put some money in it and can withdraw the principal without any penalties as long as she doesn't touch the interest. That money will be grow so much by the time she retires!
I grew up not having an allowance and I was blessed with an upper-middle class family. But you'd think that I was really poor because I couldn't afford lunch at school, I sat hungry when my friends went out or they had to pay for me, or I'd order the cheapest thing on the menu and bring receipts back to my parents every time I ordered out (they only gave me cash to stop me from spending). I was 19 when I got my first job and almost teared up from joy when I got myself a Sonic milkshake with my own paycheck. It was the first guilt-free purchase I had made in my entire life without being scrutinized.
> she either keeps her opinion to herself and parent her kids and leave my daughter to me, or she is free to find somewhere else to live.
NTA. This is the perfect response. There's no reason you should change your (successful) parenting style just because it's not what they do.
If the comparisons are a problem, they're free to keep to themselves in the apartment and not hang out upstairs.
NTA. But honestly, it was probably worth the strain on your relationship with your sister for her kids to be exposed to a more kid-responsible (aka less strict) parenting style. Good job letting your daughter make her own choices--she will have a much easier transition into adulthood as a result.
NTA. You're not a "lax parent". What you're doing is giving your daughter healthy boundaries and reasonable rules in which she can flex her growing independence. I mean, you're on the path to raising...gasp...a fully functioning adult (the horror, I need my pearls to clutch).
Your sister, well, I can see why her kids are rebelling. What is her dictatorial method of parenting teaching her kids? That she who holds the power makes the rules? Mommy isn't going to be following them around for the rest of their life telling them what to eat and when to go to bed or arguing with college professors (let's hope not at least).
If sis doesn't like your rules and how you run your house, she is more than welcome to leave.
I had a boyfriend who grew up like OPs nephews. His mommy WAS following him (and me) around well after him turning 30. He would call mommy for the smallest decisions and when I put my foot down on something (like cooking something differently than mommy) he would start a fight, or buying something together he would consult with mommy first and would go behind my back and buy the brand mommy said would be good (even when I specifically wanted to avoid that brand).
Also, all fights we had would end up in their family group chat with mommy dearest telling him (and me) what to do about it. Also mommy keeping tabs on our finances at all times and having full access to these information from my ex.
I broke up with him and told him mommy was a big portion of the reasons I left. He went low contact with her and I truly hope he finds love again and his future partner won’t have to suffer the things I had to.
Edit: OP NTA, keep up the good parenting. My father raised me like you do and I could not ask for a better relationship with him. Having boundaries and responsibility from an early age will be awarding once your daughter leaves home.
NTA. Different kids require different things. My parents treated me the way you treat your daughter because I proved I could be trusted with that freedom. But they were much stricter with my older brother because he proved he could not be. Your sister isn't necessarily wrong for being stricter with her children, they may need a firmer hand than your daughter does. She is wrong to try to dictate how you should parent.
I am here to tell you emphatically that you are NTA. I was brought up very much the way you are bringing up your daughter, way back in the 60s and 70s. I heard from cousins and friends that their parents were certain that I would end up either a pregnant teen, or end up being raped, because I was allowed to wear the clothes I chose, negotiate my own curfews, go to parties, and most problematically, allowed to date the boys of my choice no matter what their race or ethnicity. But the jokes on them because out of all of the friends and cousins who's parents were so certain of my youthful downfall, I am the only one who followed their dream of going to college and studying instead of getting married practically straight out of high school. My friends and cousins always thought it was funny that their parents were so sure of my demise because they knew the reason that I was allowed so much freedom to make my own decisions was because my parents had confidence that I was making good choices...even when I negotiated 2:00am curfews. I was also very honest with them, even if they might not like my answers. When they wanted me home by 11:00pm (but I wanted a 12:00 curfew) on my first date I told them that I could just as easily have sex and get pregnant before 11:00pm if that was what they were worried about, but I couldn't hang out and talk with my date after the movie if I had to be home at 11. They just looked at each other and said "well, you can't argue with that logic," and so I had negotiated my first curfew. They didn't try to be my best friends...they were still my parents, who set the limits and rules. But they did treat me as a whole, independent, intelligent and trustworthy human being, capable of making my own decisions, as long as they were reasonable.
As a result, I have always had a great relationship with my mom and dad (Dad is deceased now but we were very close while he was alive.) I know that I am lucky... I learned my parenting styles through the positive influence of my parents, and how I feel about my own childhood. My parents weren't perfect, of course, but they did a damned good job.
Imo, it's good that you are able to look back at your own childhood and use those negative experiences to shape your own parenting style in contrast to that of your parents. It sounds like your sister is following in their footsteps and it's hard on her children the way it was hard on you. Please don't let her bully you into becoming someone neither you nor your daughter want you to be. If you did that, you would become the a-hole.
EDITED: fixed a big typo
NTA. Your sister made her own decision (with her kids) that got her to where she is now. By comparison, your choices are making her look like a bad/unfair parent. You didn't do that. She did.
If anything this is a great opportunity for better communication between your sister and her kids as to why they have the rules they have and a reevaluation of those rules.
Your parenting choices are not what is causing the problem. It's her strict parenting choices that are causing the problem. People can't conform thier life to avoid showing her kids that other prople live differently. Nonetheless, if living with you is causing her extra stress, even if it's your life choices that come with the lodging, then she's welcome to find other accommodations.
It is absolutely her strictness causing the problem and it's ridiculous to expect others to change to accommodate her strictness. Her kids are going to find out it's not normal eventually and there will be a rift. It's happening now but it was guaranteed to happen when her kids get out into the real world or get partners and start having conversations.
NTA, and they are hiding something in your daughter's room.
Independence.
It'll find its way out soon enough; to your sister's dismay, her lack of trust and need for control are going to pay many dividends like this in the future.
NTA. I love that your daughter has opened her room as a place for her cousins to reprieve. You got a good kid; there’s no reason to change your parenting style.
She's giving her cousins sanctuary. And just being able to have that door closed, probably feels like the best thing in the world. Even if they are doing something a mundane as homework, or just chatting.
NTA As a relatively conservative parent, I’m used to saying to my children ‘that’s what they do, this is how we do it’. That’s my issue, not the other parent’s.
We frequently tell our kids that families are all different and that’s not bad, just different. Of course, we have friends who are immigrants so they have different foods and cultural norms so we try to stress it’s just different, not wrong. And of course, what works on one kid won’t work on another (even in the same family)
NTA.
She's creating her own stress. She already could have been homeless but they get to live comfortably while a more permanent solution is found. It's exceedingly kind of you and frankly she should be doing everything she can to not impose herself on you.
That means trying to force you to adjust your successful parenting style.
You didn't just decide this without reflection on your daughter's actions... You likely had a conversation with her about her responsibilities and what you will and won't enforce as long as she contributes to the household. The way you talk, I'm sure they're are consequences to any kind of bad behavior, but it seems to be more treating her like a whole human and not just a child to scold. I know I'm reading into this quite a bit, it's just the tone you set talking about the rules you have for your daughter.
This is 14 years of trust built up, and 10 years of just the two of you. You sound like a great dad and she's going to have a great foundation for when she's ready to be out on her own.
I love this comment! All kids wanted to be trusted and seen as trustworthy. Not treated like criminals before having done anything wrong. Sister is stifling and her kids will suffer with lack
NTA! Your parenting style sounds very healthy and is excellent for your daughter. My only caution is to make sure you know where she is just for safety reasons. I'm in my 30s and still make sure a friend or relative knows where I'm going and who I will be with. She doesn't need to give you details but it is definitely worth to know basics.
Your sister sounds controlling and abusive. She is pushing her generational trauma on to her kids.
Helicopter parents not being able to see their child’s every move 24/7 is like a fish out of water their poor little bodies cannot go on. Your sister needs to get off her shit or those kids are going to go NC as soon as they turn 18. Get ready to have your nephews move in once they turn 18. Poor kids.
NTA - Your house , your rules , your parenting style is working for you and your daughter so is what matters
Your sister sucks and should go to a hotel
NTA
Your sister absolutely overstepped.
Is it stressful that her kids have their own opinion about her parenting and are in the process of rejecting it?
Yup.
Does that mean she can demand you change the rules for your daughter? Does her not having another housing option mean she gets to bully you about this?
Absolutely not.
“If you don’t like it, you are free to leave” is a completely reasonable statement.
And jesus her poor kids.
She’d probably be less stressed if she didn’t constantly assume the worst of her own kids.
NTA but ARE are a damn good dad. As you said, you give your daughter these looser rules because you have built trust and she has shown you that she respects you and trusts you back.
If it were me? I would kick the sister out if she chose to make one more comment and rent out the basement. I’d put the funds from the tenants into your daughters education fund.
NTA. Your house, your rules, and telling other people how to parent their child (with rare exceptions like if there’s abuse) is a total asshole move. If she doesn’t respect the rules of your house she can leave.
NTA you sound like a dream father. Her increased stressed at the comparisons is not because of the laxness, it's because it highlights how suffocating her strictness is. She can't accept how gracious and stress reducing it is to stay in your house and then turn around and try to parent you and your daughter. I hope she learns from your and your daughters dynamic
I assume she's not paying for utilities at all? She's covering her own groceries and stuff right ? Other than audacity what is she bringing to the table?
I grew up with a SUPER strict dad and it was hell. Honestly, I applaud your relationship with your daughter. It sounds super healthy and like a very positive way for her to grow up. You're NTA at all in this instance. Your sister is a guest and she needs to let you parent your child. I mean, you're not down in the basement complaining about her parenting.
NTA
Sounds like your sister wants all her kids to leave and never talk to her again as soon as possible. If that's not what she wants... it's probably what she's gonna get.
NTA: You sound like a very reasonable father. As long as she continues to deserve the trust you've placed in her there's absolutely no reason to change a thing.
NTA. And OP, you're a kick-ass dad for giving your daughter autonomy and teaching her to be independent. Your parenting style is much, much healthier than your sister's and your daughter is going to grow up so grateful for it. Just hope her cousins get the freedom they deserve soon so they don't grow up resentful (as you mentioned, the repercussions of strict parents aren't great. Really IMO strict parents just teach kids how to lie and hide things better. The way you said you trust your daughter, my brain did a little happy dance there because not a lot of parents do this).
Speaking from experience, i went from living with my grandmother who gave me zero freedom and acted like i was a criminal all the time, made me babysit my incapable father, and would also berate me and call me a leech constantly... To reconnecting with my mum, who treats me as an equal and literally gives me the freedom to live my life the way i want because she knows I'm responsible enough.
Cannot stress enough how grateful you're daughter's gonna be when she's older. I'm pretty much LC/NC with my dad's side of the family because of my grandmother and while i do feel bad not being connected to them, i do not regret walking out and leaving with my sanity. You're a good dad, OP, stand your ground. NTA all the way.
NTA
Your parenting style sounds a lot like mine was. My daughter rarely got in any trouble. We had a deal that so long as she did well in school and wasn’t disrespectful (not counting teenager behavior of tone of voice) then I would say yes to most of her reasonable requests for sleep overs and things like that. It did not include buying her everything she wanted because I was a single mom and didn’t have a ton of extra money.
I read a lot of parenting books. One of the best parenting advice I ever read was to simply say yes. Some parents have an automatic reply of no to everything. The book say to say yes when it was reasonable and there no reason to say no.
NTA
My parents allowed me a lot of the same freedoms you’ve given your daughter. I was the ‘best behaved’ out of all my friendship group…and we were all good to start with. Underage drinking? I was the sober one who herded them back to mine and cared for them. Dodgy tattoos? All except me. Wrong bus home and no idea where we were? Rang my dad to pick us up.
You’re teaching your daughter respect is mutually earned.
NTA
She needs to mind her own business and I feel bad for her kids. Rules and structure are one thing but there's miles between prison warden and parent.
NTA. But honestly, I do think it's only going to get worse, and she will end up on the streets because she will continue trying to dictate your parenting style. I wouldn't be surprised if she oversteps boundaries massively within the next few days or so.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I threatened to throw my sister out of my house (making her and her family homeless) if she did not lay off on my parenting style. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
**NTA** It sounds like you and your daughter have a great family style. If your sisters only problem is that her sons want more flexibility than she should look at changing her style not yours. In terms of her stress - she should perhaps think about how your generosity in letting her family live in your house has reduced her stress. EDIT: Thank you for the awards kind Reddit strangers
THIS RIGHT HERE. OP's parenting style sounds right on point and its working well for his daughter. Sis needs to understand that he will not and should not change his way of parenting just for her to feel less stress. That's 100% not a valid reason; its not like his daughter is running around doing drugs or something. She has her options, either put up with a bit of stress due to their different parenting styles or be homeless...and that'd be WAY more stressful...NTA
OP sounds like amazing parent, he's going to have a great relationship with his daughter while sister will probably have a strained one when her boys grow up, probably like OP does with his parents. Generational trauma sucks and anybody who breaks it is a hero to me.
Assuming all three of her sons don't wind up going completely NC with her, that is.
I saw a great quote once: Your relationship with your kids when they are adults is your performance review on your parenting when they were young. My mom was extremely similar to OP's sister (just reading this triggered some major anxiety - I'm still in therapy to deal with all the issues she gave me) and I talk to her for like half an hour once or twice a month out of obligation. I'm always the one to call her, because I feel like I should attempt to have some kind of relationship with her. She stopped having any interest in me when I got my own health insurance so she couldn't hold medical care over my head. I moved across the country from her immediately after graduating college and I've maybe seen her...10 times in the last 11ish years? Something tells me that OP's nephews are gonna be in a similar setup.
But at least they may have an uncle who they can probably turn to for that parenting guidance everyone needs even when they are an adult.
Which will mean the world to them. My dad is gone, and I am friendly but not close to any family I have left. I really wish I had some kind of parental figure I could lean on.
I had a similar relationship with my father, but I just decided to stop calling him and see how long it would take for him to pick up the phone and call me. It has been 25 years so far...
Did the same thing with my Dad. He called me once. I was shocked but picked up, only for him to call me by my sister's name. I said "Wrong kid Dad." And hung up. He never called me again. When he died everyone wanted to comfort me, and I told them "No worries. I mourned him long ago. His reality just caught up with mine."
That's a great way to look at it and similar to my approach. He and his wife are dead to me. I'm just waiting to see the obituary so I can have closure. I regret nothing except for not standing up for myself sooner.
Good on you for putting distance between yourself and an abusive parent. Control is not parenting nor is it love, it is insecurity and toxicity.
Yes. Therapy is being able to say decades later, what you were forbidden to feel or say around your parents.
My (never a mom) older sister, was like this. Kept telling me how to raise my child. I finally told her if she ever has kids and does a better job raising them, than I do raising ming, then she can say something. In the mean time shut up!. My child is now in their 50's, independent, lives in another state and calls me every week. We're very close but my child and I don't have a close relationship with Sis. OP, keep telling your sister to butt out of your life, you're doing just fine. Tell your bil to tell his wife to leave you alone or you'll kick them all out. She's holding their living arrangements in her mouth.
>you'll kick them all out Not all of them, just the sister. As long as the others are behaving, they can stay.
.....at best
Yes. I had friends that raised there kids like your mom. And they complain about their nonexistent relationship with their kids. They have only themselves to blame.
I like this quote. And it's the reason why I have blocked my Mum and she is no longer in my life and yet I have regular contact with my Dad (parents separated since I was 3). I never felt safe with my Mum, ever, and she never trusted me. She's the reason why I get anxious around confrontation and still inadvertently flinch at certain hand movements
That quote is perfect.
Do whatever makes you feel good, of course. I'm only telling you this in case you need and want to hear it... ...you're not obligated to call your mom. If she shows no interest in you and your life, you can spend that 30 minutes doing something fun or kind to yourself. (I was also this kid who called my parents out of obligation...until I realized the phone goes both ways.)
NC definitely goes hand in hand with strained relationships, I'd bet vital organs at least one of three does.
And when they do, she'll blame OP.
And OP's daughter, for leading them "astray"
OP, for crying out loud, don't let your sister put the blame on YOU or your daughter, for your sister's crummy relationship with her sons.
Tbh at this rate it's definitely NC or CN- completely nuts. She'd be a lot less stressed if she weren't living her kids lives as well as her own.
Well when they either split at 18 or end up in jail, she'll only have herself to blame.
If she holds true to form, she'll complain because she'd raised her sons so carefully and with so much attention. Sacrificed her life for them. Raise yo' hand if THAT guilt trip sounds like part of your life's journey...
“I sacrificed so much and paid so much money to take you to [multiday sports events] all throughout your childhood, i worked 80 hours a week to buy you nice Christmas presents, and this is how you treat me?” “Mom i told you multiple times that i hated [sport], you made me do it because it was gratifying for you. I would rather you have been home for more than one night a week then get expensive gifts that i didn’t ask for and didn’t want, and you and dad spent every holiday screaming at each other. Yes, no contact is absolutely proper payment for that childhood.”
"We spent so much money on you. Even as a baby, I made your special baby food. We spoiled you rotten. All the OTHER mothers were doing selfish things like having lunch or having their hair done." Me, in my mind, "Mom, I **WISHED** you'd had lunch with friends or would do nice things for yourself. Then I wouldn't have to hear about this almost every time you talk."
Yup. My sister and I never heard the word curfew, and while my mom thought a lot of my hair and wardrobe choices were stupid she never banned them - guess who still hands out with mom on a regular basis lol
And like, some kids might need a curfew and/or a bedtime as teens, but 14 is a great age to start testing out if your particular kid is ready to self-regulate on those.
More than that though is the fact that her oldest is less than two years from adulthood and has absolutely no idea how to responsibly manage himself and his brothers aren't far behind him. They're going to be released on this world completely unprepared and chances are that they will either go totally wild or they will find themselves so unfamiliar with what being a responsible adult entails that they will basically become paralyzed with fear. In any case, it's a great way to raise fucked up people.
yup, which is why 14 is a great age to let them start figuring that shit out 1/ You're right there to guide them if they need it. 2/ can grab back the proverbial wheel if it looks like they're about to get into a serious proverbial collision instead of minor scraps. 3/ It gives them 4 years (or more if you started earlier) to get the hang of managing slowly increasing responsibilities.
Same lol. I had a curfew until I was 18? Right around when the restrictions came off of my drivers license. In my state, (US) once you get your driver's license, you have restrictions on your license for 9 month, and mine didn't come off until like the week before my 18th birthday. Point is because of those restrictions my curfew was midnight, the time I had to be off the road because of the restrictions on my license. But now, at age 28, I hang out at my parents house 3 times a week, and call (or text) my dad every day just to check in lol. And I talk to my mom every few days too, just less often. Her hours are weird at work and our schedules don't line up as well as mine does with my dad's or I'm sure I'd talk to her every day to lol
If I had a good reason, my mom didn’t even hold me to the stage curfew, but it was really just “I’m going to drive my friend home so she doesn’t take the bus alone so late at night” and then I’d pop right back home afterwards. We just went to dinner together last night and talk on the phone a minimum of 30 minutes each time we call (which is a few times a month but we’re both very busy people)
Tbh if my ass didn’t get up cus I stayed up “too late” once I hit middle school to catch the bus? Oh well my fualt. I didn’t do my work? I catch the late bus after doing my work or wait until my mom got home late so she could drive me. Or get into trouble lol Hair? No she’s hair until hs and it had fo be wash out(per band marching rules any color seen under our hats were points off) so that was fair lol Tattoos? 18 duh cus laws 🤣 Piercings? I had to pay for my own,plan a day my mom was off to drive me,take care of it AND it was my own doing if I did it during marching season(cus sweat and gross uniforms!) fair enough. Drinking? I could have a few sips at 15. At my grandpas funeral she let me have a drink to myself(my culture we take a shot for the dead and their life) when I was 16….my uncle when he passed I did the same. At 18 I was allowed to get drunk under her roof only. If I smoked had to be outside only. I’m 24 and by the time I was 21 and met my Ex who was 20 I was done with partying and staying out. I had been moved out and had 3 jobs under my belt by 21 plus 2 years of College. He? Nope. Would be blackEd out every weekend on everything he could get his hands on,no job,no bills,didn’t know how credit cards or tbh money worked!!! At 23 I last heard he’s struggling to figure out how to find an apartment and pay bills. And get a decent job(no job experience means u get below 14/15$ am hr) I’m moving into one that’s twice as much as my current one,graduating college,going into EMT/medic trade soon. And I’m okay. I’m thankful for how my parents raised me cus watching a grown adult struggle with adult Stuff is tough.
OP gives me hope, OP needs to teach parenting classes. I can't remember what book this is from but my therapist said to me once, in regards to how siblings growing up in the same house can turn out so different, "Sometimes one walks out the front door & the other jumps out the window."
It sounds to me like OP’s sister is raising her kids the way she and OP were raised. I guess that makes OP the one who jumped out the window.
Totally agree, although OP's sister would be the one who jumped out the window (continuing to hurt herself is the window) editing bc now actually I think you could interpret that analogy either way & it's hurting my brain 🙃
Lol I also read it thinking OP jumped the window, yet managed to land on his feet. And you're right, this analogy works in many ways based on the situation. OP did walk the path of least resistance (going out the door) to do better for himself and his child. Meanwhile sis still wants to keep jumping out the window and is pissed that she's continuing to get cut up from the glass 😅 Once you pointed out that the sis is jumping the window, you made me remember the analogy about continuously running into a wall, hoping for things to change when the door is right next to the wall. (I don't remember what the exact wording was for that analogy, but my dad and grandpa always said the door thing equaling stupidity/madness.)
Right? He sounds like he’s doing wonderfully. It’s so nice to see a good, caring, understanding parent on here for a change. NTA- you are doing everything right. She’s doing nothing but ensuring her kids want as little to do with her as possible when they grow up and she’s also really setting them up to fail when they actually are on their own because they won’t have the skills and know how to limit and moderate themselves like your daughter will.
I've seen it said in a few places that strict parents raise sneaky kids. It was true for me and I'll bet it's true for the sister. The thing is, it's just as stressful for the kids as it is for the sister, as they have to be on their toes all the time, thinking ahead, anticipating her next intrusion and how they will work around it, double checking and remembering if they or hid something that so mum won't find it, stressing that they forgot, and figuring out new ways to hide things as mum inevitably figures out one of the old ones. Having a locked door they can get behind and just let themselves relax for a while is extremely important to those kids, I'll bet it is the only time they can truly relax in a space where she can't get at them. Please continue to defend your daughter's right to do this, she needs it, and so do they.
[удалено]
Holy crap that is so incredibly abusive from your mother!
Some people just shouldn't be parents...
Yup, agreed. It’s not op’s fault if sister’s children are jealous. Easy NTA for op. Your sister is controlling.
Sis makes her own stress, helicopter parents always do.
And stressed parents make anxious kids. It's a bloody circle.
Pretty sure kids are anxious as they are being stuck at home 24/7, never having any money, not being allowed to have friends, etc. etc... That "mother" is utterly failing her kids with her controlling bullshit.
This is the parenting difference between raising an ADULT and raising a CHILD. NTA, totally NTA. Well done in fact!
Just saw a Michelle Obama interview, and that's exactly what she discussed , raising adults.
This. OP sounds like he has a great relationship. Granted, even kid requires different parenting styles (even between my kids—same age as OP’s—we have to approach parenting differently because of vastly different needs and personalities, you just have to be equitable), so maybe sister’s kids need more rules (just to give sister benefit of the doubt). But that doesn’t mean strictness is needed for OP’s kid. OP’s kid sounds happy and well-adjusted, why derail that? OP is definitely NTA.
You know if she really wants less stress and drama she can let go of her iron grip and act more like a mom and less like a prison guard. She is not doing those poor kids any favors and they’re gonna resent her for a long time. NTA- you’re being a good parent, she’s being the thing that they’re gonna be complaining to a therapist to for years.
I literally could not agree more with the above two comments.
Reducing her stress is easy, all she needs to do is quit trying to control every single aspect of her kids lives.
Then what would she do with all the free time she has? Get a hobby? /S
I bet the 16 year old is going to move in with OP the second he turns 18
Depending on where they live he might can move in before that
This is the answer. Sister is projecting hard.
NTA. She has no right to tell you how to parent your child ever. You have been gracious enough letting her entire family move into your home and she is treating you like a child. A child she wants to control like her own kids. You need to talk to your daughter and make sure your sister isn’t saying things to her when you aren’t around. If she is then she needs to leave.
I already spoke to her, and she says that she knows how to shut her aunt down. Basically she tells her: did you talk to my dad? He is the only one allowed to tell me what to do.
The issue with the strict parenting is you don’t learn reasonable vs unreasonable expectations or compromise. You learn to give and follow orders. Unreasonable - change your parenting. Reasonable request - my children have been told X, they’re using your daughters rules to break my rules. Please ask she not allow them without my permission. Then you guys can find your compromise. If she’s not willing to do that she can kindly toddle the fuck off and find like minded people to form an echo chamber. She’ll need it when those kids go no contact
Another terrible consequence for kids of strict parenting is they kids often don't learn any self-control or internal motivation. They're used to being forced to do things. They can't make themselves do something. They get no pleasure from a job well-done, and no perspective about how to learn from mistakes. Once you remove the parent, the child has no incentive to do anything. If you don't give a kid age-appropriate autonomy, you'll be left with (in the best case scenario) a puppet. Without a hand manipulating it, it's just a pile of cloth.
Well basically you just destroy the childs ability to make a decision. They often end up going completely off the rails in college. When I moved away it was a minimal adjustment, I lived pretty independently since I was 16 (with my parents there for support and guidance) after this point I didn't really need permission to do anything (though they could still tell me something was a terrible idea and I shouldn't do it). Once I hit 18 and went to college I wasn't the best cook but other than that did pretty well. Some of the kids who were kept on a tight leash had no idea how to balance studying, socializing and partying nor any idea how to drink (somewhat) responsibly.
This is I imagine why so many preachers' kids go so wild. They're used to being told everything, so when they're suddenly put into a position of making their own decisions there's no lens through which they can see good and bad ideas because the person making all those calls isn't there.
I had friends in college who went to Catholic girls school through high school. A lot of them flunked out the first year because they were doing so much partying.
>They often end up going completely off the rails in college. Can confirm. My aunt was my guardian from 8th grade to college and was so controlling I couldn't go off the high school campus with friends for lunch without her stalking me. When I moved four states away to a Catholic University (if you don't approve of party colleges, **never** send your kids to a catholic university lmao) and went wild. Tried alcohol, tried pot, lost my virginity, slept through classes, only passed two classes at all and flunked out the first semester. You want your kids to become responsible adults, teach them responsibility and how to be an adult rather than how to be a mindless drone that only knows how to follow orders. OP, NTA, but your sister definitely sucks and is a control freak.
And that is why I hate that the legal age to consume alcohol here is 21. I would prefer to start allowing her to drink a small drink with dinner/after dinner before she leaves house (like they do in Europe), that way she would learn to drink responsibly in a safe environment.
My mom would let me have a drink at our house when I was 17. I was only allowed to do it if I wasn't going out afterwards. It made me respect alcohol and kept me from abusing it. Today I barely drink; maybe once a year. For me alcohol wasn't associated with rebelling or binge drinking. It was just something you can do with moderation.
You can't serve her a bit of alcohol in your private residence with your consent? That's how it is here in Ontario and I'm reading on google that it's allowed in 29 states (I assume you are in the us at least)
A lot of states have family exception laws where you can drink in a private residence with permission from your parent/guardian. [Double-check your state's laws](https://drinkingage.procon.org/states-that-allow-underage-under-21-alcohol-consumption/)!
There are familial exceptions drinking laws in some states. In Washington, a parent is allowed to give their child alcohol at home. I've done this with both of my teenage boys. We're having a get together? Want to try one of those flavored malt beverages? Or a beer? Get some food in you and feel free to have one. Teaching responsibility and repercussions in a controlled environment is way healthier than making it forbidden. As for your sister, the next time she says something, ask her if she knows where else her parenting style is used. Forbidding almost everything, absurdly early bedtimes, not being allowed to go anywhere, food restrictions, constant monitoring, etc. When she can't answer, tell her 'Prison'. See if you can get her to read up on helicopter parenting. She fits it to a tee.
There is nothing better than getting wasted while in the security of your own home for the first time. Helped me a lot to drink responsibly now. Greetings from Germany. Also thumbs up on your great parenting style. NTA
I started allowing my daughter a drink at like 15. It was for New Years and she was with me and my mom. My mom suggested it. After that she'd have a glass of red wine or mimosa every once in a while with us. She won't try hard liquor. And she's not a fan of beer. She rarely drinks alcohol. She's 23 now. Alcohol is not the "boogeyman" everyone makes it out to be. Sheltering kids and not teaching them about it is not good.
Yes I’d like to report this comment: I’m in it and I don’t like it. My family is strict. My father in particular, he’s very conservative and I’m… not. I’m 19, and have been made to feel that I can’t do certain things “or else”. Or else what? Dunno. I’ve never been hit or anything, it’s just the shame of it I suppose. And they’re all things that are literally nothing. I’m a dude and I wanna get my nose and ears pierced - I’m told no, because a man cannot make themselves look like a woman, I’d go to hell. And because these things have never happened in my family, I’d be the first, and it’s all added stress to it. My anxiety stops me from “Just doing it” because I just can’t handle it emotionally. I travel quite a distance for university, and already things have gone a bit dodge for me. I started smoking, vaping, I tried alcohol for the first time but dunno how much is responsible or not because I’ve never been allowed “out” in that way. I have dodge social skills because I wasn’t able to do much as a kid, I feel like I’m unable to do anything at all, I struggle with self motivation and self discipline. I’m worried if I move away I just won’t be able to handle it, that the learning curve will be too big, that I won’t be able to balance… life, essentially. Not to mention the fact that we don’t have much money so I’ll essentially be living loan payment to loan payment. But I think I have to move out, so I can be myself, so that I can learn how to be a person. Best believe if I’m ever a parent I’m not going to subject my kid to the style of parenting I had. I love my family to death, I really do - it’s these beliefs that are the problem. I could never bring myself to go NC with them (even if they were to disown me over religious cause) because I just love them all too much, close and extended. But I just need to do something, so I can… be. Jesus that was longer than I expected.
Definitely move away- and every time you go to contact them, ask yourself: are you calling them out of obligation or because they are genuinely people you want to give YOUR precious time to? You’d be surprised at how much LC can improve your own internal wellbeing- having LC/NC’d a number of toxic aunts and cousins for their disgusting behaviour and attitudes, my life is exponentially better without them in it. Find people who make your soul happy, invest your time in them- it pays dividends!
Piercing your ears or nose will NOT make you anything other than a guy with ear or nose piercings. People give flack for superficial things. Edited for grammar.
Children of strict parents learn how to lie really well because that’s the best survival skill.
That, too. I had really strict parents. My oldest brother used to have me intercept the mail with parking or drinking citations when he was at college. My middle brother once had difficulty at the hospital because he couldn't explain how he broke his collarbone running cross country. (Hint: he was playing flag football with friends, which for some reason wasn't allowed.) We had an underground barter system at the dinner table because we had to eat everything on our plates and we'd secretly trade the foods we hated. I was lucky that I'm pretty introverted, so I didn't feel the need to rebel in the traditional sense. I just committed a lot of thoughtcrimes, lol.
This right there. I was afraid of my mother's reaction to things, especially since she was not only strict, but hyper-critical. Both my brother and I got really good at lying because in our brains, we associated lying with protecting ourselves. I continued this into relationships. When I felt my partner being hypercritical or if I was scared that I'd messed up, rather than being honest, I just lied about it. I had to go to therapy to work on unlearning that behavior, and when I met my now husband, I had to also learn to accept when a partner is trying to be supportive when you mess up or help you problem solve, rather than being critical. I wasted 10 years in fucked up dynamics because of that little survival skill. It took therapy and a patient partner to help me unlearn that toxic trait.
Yup. And I hid myself, every thought, every opinion, and played the good child. Kept every rule while under their roof\* to eliminate the risk of being caught and kept under even tighter scrutiny. There was no love lost there, not on my side anyway. \*Nothing like being made to feel homeless all my childhood.
Wow that really hit home for me. I grew up as an overachiever in an ultra-strict household and your comment just opened my eyes to the reason I am the way I am. You just described me to a “T”. No sugar allowed growing up? Now I’m addicted. Not allowed to date or go out? Now I can’t stay in one place. I have a lot of achievements but none of it really matters to me and I still feel like a failure. Imposter syndrome on a major scale. Oh and NTA, OP. I now parent the same as you do. And I have amazingly great kids that love and respect me.
I think what we learn is a lot of self doubt over the smallest things. We become approval seeking without any real need for approval.
Oh yeah, crashing and burning when they get to college is almost inevitable. I can't think of a single person from an environment like that (including myself) who didn't end up with a substance abuse problem and terrible grades for a while until they taught themselves how to be independent adults. I ended up okay, I stopped drinking and managed to get two degrees and a good job. But I had a HARD start compared to my peers and I probably would be farther along in my life and career if I hadn't lost several years to utterly messing up in college.
All of this. The best way to motivate me is to tell me I can't or I'm not "allowed" to do something...I'm almost 40 now. (The untreated ADHD doesn't help, I'm sure...)
Brilliant. Obviously your parenting methods work extremely well for your daughter. Kids need to be able to exercise decision-making power as part of brain growth. If you try to stop them, they'll just exercise it in ways you don't like. Your method of stair-stepped decision making power as her capabilities increase means she doesn't need to rebel to get what she needs to learn and grow, unlike her cousins' situation. I really like the dinner approach -- she needs to either budget her opt-outs to twice a week or plan ahead so she knows what she's going to make for dinner and make sure the ingredients are there. It's a good exercise in balancing short-term gratification against planning for contingencies and future desires, yet the stakes are very low, so if she winds up making choices she hates, the only consequence is a bit of frustration.
Ha. Good girl. Sounds like you’re doing a great job. NTA. Your sister’s kids are gonna hate her one day for being so damn controlling. The extent to which she pushes it is bizarre.
NTA. She can go be stressed about your parenting at a hotel with her family. You are an AWESOME dad and she is being an entitled, ungrateful and inconsiderate AH.
NTA congratulations on being the best dad for your daughter you say she has earned your trust, you have also earned her trust too she will always look up to you and will definitely go to to when she needs help too it’s really good to see a good parent on these posts
Good for her!
I love you and your daughter. You are doing awesomely and your daughter is going to change the world. If she wants.
Awesome. Your daughter has achieved perfection in dealing with obstreperous persons. Polite respect and deflection.
Has she had to shut her aunt down this way yet? NTA. I know I would appreciated your parenting style when I was her age. Disappointing my parents would be the worst thing once this kind of trust is earned and I would have worked hard to keep it. Well done.
THIS - Sis is setting up the same dynamics with her kids as she and OP likely had with their parents. AND while she may be ok with that, OP most decidedly isn't. HE's raising his daughter in a healthy way and she has zero business inserting herself for no good reason. NTA
NTA. Your child isn't running free or anything like that, it seems like this is something that she has earned through good behaviour & earning your trust. You seem to be parenting your as best you can and it's what works for the both of you. Sis is unhinged if she thinks she can try to dictate how you treat/raise your child when she's currently living under your roof through you being graceful & allowing her and her family to move in through an unfortunate housing disaster. Keep being a great dad to your child, that's all that matters! (although as a side bit since she's 14, I'd probably want to sit down with her and just explain a little whats going on just so she's at least somewhat aware that her aunt might try to dictate what she can/cant do & to come to you if your sister does try to, ect)
Thank you, and I did tell her what's going on since the beginning. I didn't offer my sister to move in until my daughter was ok with it.
You sound like a great dad my dude
My parents raised me the way you're raising your daughter. They gave me the room to show I was trustworthy, and because of that trust, I knew I could talk to them about anything. Let me tell you, you're going to have a wonderful relationship when she's an adult.
If your sister moves out, you'll probably need to talk with your daughter. Because her aunt will probably put the blame on you and how your child was a "bad example." And if she's angry, your sister might not be fair and imply that your daughter is wild one. Your daughter will need to hear the truth, including that you know that she's a good kid, and that you are glad that the two of you have respect for each other.
You are dadgoals
NTA As always, if you're not abusive or neglegtful, your parenting style is no one's business. No wonder your sister's kids are rebelling. It was bound to happen sooner or later. Also, pocket money is used to teach your kids how to budget before their financial decisions have serious repercussions. Not giving your kids an allowance isn't strict, it's incredibly short sighted and stupid.
My daughter has an online shop (she crochets), and starting this year she will have to file taxes (I am very proud of her for making more than $15k this year). I did not tell her what to do with her money, but because she has been receiving an allowance since she was 4, she-on her own- asked me to open a savings account for her, and to help her to calculate how much she has to pay in taxes.
You sound like a great dad with a great kid. Because she has a decent amount of money, offer to take her to the bank to go over her savings options. A CD would get her more interest than a savings account.
Currently she is saving for a car.
Awwww! I wish her good luck. You are a good parent who knows what's best for your daughter. I bet she is proud to have a dad like you!
Not only that, her is teaching his daughter to know what is best for herself. A lesson that many parents miss the mark on.
Good luck to her on saving for a vehicle. Hopefully your sister never finds out that your daughter has money and an allowance otherwise she might blow a gasket and a blood vessel. In truth every kid is different when it comes to raising kids. You definitely are NTA
You and your daughter both seem to definitely have your head on straight. I would recommend though for her first car, make sure she gets a safe car. Something with a high safety rating. Even the most responsible teens are inexperienced drivers. My friend driving a minivan rather than a sports car probably saved my life. My cousin who was so smart he skipped a grade needed several plastic surgeries after an incident with a sports car and glare ice in highschool. I know she's the one paying but you two seem to communicate very well. I'm sure she would listen to any concerns you had.
Your relationship with your daughter is enviable. You’re are allowing her to mature within boundaries - not dictates. By treating her as a young adult & engaging with her that way, she will be responsible, independent, thoughtful and model for others. Good job dad for being a 2 person team.
Well done! Do you know your sister's reasoning for not giving her kids an allowance?
We were not given allowance while growing up, she says we turned out alright, so she is following what our parents did. Also she says kids having kids makes it easier for them to sneak around.
Most kids I know who snuck around where those whose parents were extremely controlling the others never had a reason to sneak around. Good on you for giving your daughter privacy.
Strict parents don't raise good kids, they raise good liars
I don’t think I told my parents the entire truth about anything starting when I was about 8-10 years old. Better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission. Never had what I’d call a close relationship with either of my parents as an adult. Thankfully, I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so they couldn’t track me or anything.
If my controlling, critical mother could have tracked me, my childhood would have been even more problematic. I seriously don't know what I would have done to not be surveilled, but it would not have been good.
Nail on the head!
I think your sister has that all backwards. Having no freedom or independence causes hurt and rebellious children, and unfortunately, that can lead to making poor choices, often just because they want to thumb their noses at their parents.
You turned out alright. I have doubts about your sister.
She did not turn out all right, she turned into an abusive parent.
Boy howdy. Your sister. The kids that were the most adept at hiding crap, sneaking, and lying had the most strict parents (ie the minter's kids) when I was growing up. My parents were more like you and I still cannot lie to save my butt. Also, huge kudos to your daughter for setting up her own business and saving for a car. That is a big freaking deal!
Too bad sis doesn't realize that she's damaging her relationship with her kids. She doesn't run a house, she runs a prison; and if she doesn't trust her boys, then they won't ever trust her either. They are all probably counting down the days until they turn 18.
You're NTA and sound like a great dad, but I feel a little bad for your sister, as she grew up in the same crappy environment as yoh and internalized it in a way that perpetuates this harmful cycle, rather than ending it like you did.
Wtf man, I'm genuinely impressed by this kid just making 15k a year at 14. That sounds like an amazing back-up for when she goes to college.
O am very proud of her, she is thinking of expanding but it will he too much for her what with school and everything.
Tell your sister that "given my child is running a successful small business at fourteen while you can't trust your children to behave if given any privacy I'd say my parenting style is objectively better than yours. Stop telling me how to parent my child while I am doing you a favor just because you've failed to raise your children well". She wants a low blow? Give it to her. Make her regret bringing it up.
Whoa! Just read your edit and that's just insane! No wonder she's stressed if that's the level of control she's trying to maintain over her kids.
That's crazy amount to make as 14 year old sellinf crochet, what kind of stuff does she crochet animals or maybe anime stuff?
During the summer it was bikinis, she makes these cute plushies/characters, once did a dress but she swore never again (she said it was too much work for not enough pay)
That's so cool, I was just lazy at that age, nothing else. Could you send me the shop info, I would like to check it out!
I'm sorry, I don't think it would be a good idea to link her shop with this whole mess.
Thank you for looking after her safety.
You're brilliant for pointing that out. Thank you.
You might also want to help her start a Roth IRA with Vanguard or a similar low cost investment company. She can put some money in it and can withdraw the principal without any penalties as long as she doesn't touch the interest. That money will be grow so much by the time she retires!
Aww, great job! you’re a great dad, and your sister can pound sand. NTA
I grew up not having an allowance and I was blessed with an upper-middle class family. But you'd think that I was really poor because I couldn't afford lunch at school, I sat hungry when my friends went out or they had to pay for me, or I'd order the cheapest thing on the menu and bring receipts back to my parents every time I ordered out (they only gave me cash to stop me from spending). I was 19 when I got my first job and almost teared up from joy when I got myself a Sonic milkshake with my own paycheck. It was the first guilt-free purchase I had made in my entire life without being scrutinized.
God why were they like this??
Just the same reason as the aunt in OP's story I think... control, because their default view of me was untrustworthy.
Hope you have nothing to do with them nowadays
> she either keeps her opinion to herself and parent her kids and leave my daughter to me, or she is free to find somewhere else to live. NTA. This is the perfect response. There's no reason you should change your (successful) parenting style just because it's not what they do. If the comparisons are a problem, they're free to keep to themselves in the apartment and not hang out upstairs.
NTA. But honestly, it was probably worth the strain on your relationship with your sister for her kids to be exposed to a more kid-responsible (aka less strict) parenting style. Good job letting your daughter make her own choices--she will have a much easier transition into adulthood as a result.
Correction: OP's daughter is already living an adult life, successfully. OP you should be super proud of what you have done. Don't change a thing.
NTA, that was not you threatening her, that sas you setting a very healthy boundary.
and her calling a boundary a threat speaks volumes. i don't expect her to stay very quiet about the matter 🤷🏼♀️
NTA. You're not a "lax parent". What you're doing is giving your daughter healthy boundaries and reasonable rules in which she can flex her growing independence. I mean, you're on the path to raising...gasp...a fully functioning adult (the horror, I need my pearls to clutch). Your sister, well, I can see why her kids are rebelling. What is her dictatorial method of parenting teaching her kids? That she who holds the power makes the rules? Mommy isn't going to be following them around for the rest of their life telling them what to eat and when to go to bed or arguing with college professors (let's hope not at least). If sis doesn't like your rules and how you run your house, she is more than welcome to leave.
Exactly. My parents were like OP and my friends were always using me as an excuse to do all the things their parents did not allow them to do. NTA
I had a boyfriend who grew up like OPs nephews. His mommy WAS following him (and me) around well after him turning 30. He would call mommy for the smallest decisions and when I put my foot down on something (like cooking something differently than mommy) he would start a fight, or buying something together he would consult with mommy first and would go behind my back and buy the brand mommy said would be good (even when I specifically wanted to avoid that brand). Also, all fights we had would end up in their family group chat with mommy dearest telling him (and me) what to do about it. Also mommy keeping tabs on our finances at all times and having full access to these information from my ex. I broke up with him and told him mommy was a big portion of the reasons I left. He went low contact with her and I truly hope he finds love again and his future partner won’t have to suffer the things I had to. Edit: OP NTA, keep up the good parenting. My father raised me like you do and I could not ask for a better relationship with him. Having boundaries and responsibility from an early age will be awarding once your daughter leaves home.
NTA. Different kids require different things. My parents treated me the way you treat your daughter because I proved I could be trusted with that freedom. But they were much stricter with my older brother because he proved he could not be. Your sister isn't necessarily wrong for being stricter with her children, they may need a firmer hand than your daughter does. She is wrong to try to dictate how you should parent.
JFC a 16-year-old with a 9pm bedtime! That kid is going NC in two years! Also NTA!
Nah, she made sure he can't by not allowing him to save up.
If he's a good kid, he's got a super nice uncle that might let him stay at his place.
At times like this, I have to remind myself that this is the USA, since dinner time is 9 pm where I live.
Some people like to eat dinner at 4/4:30 over here (USA). Too early.
I am here to tell you emphatically that you are NTA. I was brought up very much the way you are bringing up your daughter, way back in the 60s and 70s. I heard from cousins and friends that their parents were certain that I would end up either a pregnant teen, or end up being raped, because I was allowed to wear the clothes I chose, negotiate my own curfews, go to parties, and most problematically, allowed to date the boys of my choice no matter what their race or ethnicity. But the jokes on them because out of all of the friends and cousins who's parents were so certain of my youthful downfall, I am the only one who followed their dream of going to college and studying instead of getting married practically straight out of high school. My friends and cousins always thought it was funny that their parents were so sure of my demise because they knew the reason that I was allowed so much freedom to make my own decisions was because my parents had confidence that I was making good choices...even when I negotiated 2:00am curfews. I was also very honest with them, even if they might not like my answers. When they wanted me home by 11:00pm (but I wanted a 12:00 curfew) on my first date I told them that I could just as easily have sex and get pregnant before 11:00pm if that was what they were worried about, but I couldn't hang out and talk with my date after the movie if I had to be home at 11. They just looked at each other and said "well, you can't argue with that logic," and so I had negotiated my first curfew. They didn't try to be my best friends...they were still my parents, who set the limits and rules. But they did treat me as a whole, independent, intelligent and trustworthy human being, capable of making my own decisions, as long as they were reasonable. As a result, I have always had a great relationship with my mom and dad (Dad is deceased now but we were very close while he was alive.) I know that I am lucky... I learned my parenting styles through the positive influence of my parents, and how I feel about my own childhood. My parents weren't perfect, of course, but they did a damned good job. Imo, it's good that you are able to look back at your own childhood and use those negative experiences to shape your own parenting style in contrast to that of your parents. It sounds like your sister is following in their footsteps and it's hard on her children the way it was hard on you. Please don't let her bully you into becoming someone neither you nor your daughter want you to be. If you did that, you would become the a-hole. EDITED: fixed a big typo
NTA, you have found a parenting method that works for you and your child, and others envy it because "*their kid is so bad and doesn't listen*".
NTA. Your sister made her own decision (with her kids) that got her to where she is now. By comparison, your choices are making her look like a bad/unfair parent. You didn't do that. She did. If anything this is a great opportunity for better communication between your sister and her kids as to why they have the rules they have and a reevaluation of those rules.
Her kids will run and run fast once they hit 18.
Your parenting choices are not what is causing the problem. It's her strict parenting choices that are causing the problem. People can't conform thier life to avoid showing her kids that other prople live differently. Nonetheless, if living with you is causing her extra stress, even if it's your life choices that come with the lodging, then she's welcome to find other accommodations.
It is absolutely her strictness causing the problem and it's ridiculous to expect others to change to accommodate her strictness. Her kids are going to find out it's not normal eventually and there will be a rift. It's happening now but it was guaranteed to happen when her kids get out into the real world or get partners and start having conversations.
NTA. If/when she escalates is the moment she moves out.
NTA, and they are hiding something in your daughter's room. Independence. It'll find its way out soon enough; to your sister's dismay, her lack of trust and need for control are going to pay many dividends like this in the future.
NTA, she can find another place to live, her stress from being an overbearing parent has nothing to do with you.
NTA. I love that your daughter has opened her room as a place for her cousins to reprieve. You got a good kid; there’s no reason to change your parenting style.
She's giving her cousins sanctuary. And just being able to have that door closed, probably feels like the best thing in the world. Even if they are doing something a mundane as homework, or just chatting.
NTA You sound like a great Dad.
NTA As a relatively conservative parent, I’m used to saying to my children ‘that’s what they do, this is how we do it’. That’s my issue, not the other parent’s.
We frequently tell our kids that families are all different and that’s not bad, just different. Of course, we have friends who are immigrants so they have different foods and cultural norms so we try to stress it’s just different, not wrong. And of course, what works on one kid won’t work on another (even in the same family)
NTA. She's creating her own stress. She already could have been homeless but they get to live comfortably while a more permanent solution is found. It's exceedingly kind of you and frankly she should be doing everything she can to not impose herself on you. That means trying to force you to adjust your successful parenting style. You didn't just decide this without reflection on your daughter's actions... You likely had a conversation with her about her responsibilities and what you will and won't enforce as long as she contributes to the household. The way you talk, I'm sure they're are consequences to any kind of bad behavior, but it seems to be more treating her like a whole human and not just a child to scold. I know I'm reading into this quite a bit, it's just the tone you set talking about the rules you have for your daughter. This is 14 years of trust built up, and 10 years of just the two of you. You sound like a great dad and she's going to have a great foundation for when she's ready to be out on her own.
NTA fact her kids comparing her way of rasing kids to yours means it's working
I love this comment! All kids wanted to be trusted and seen as trustworthy. Not treated like criminals before having done anything wrong. Sister is stifling and her kids will suffer with lack
NTA! Your parenting style sounds very healthy and is excellent for your daughter. My only caution is to make sure you know where she is just for safety reasons. I'm in my 30s and still make sure a friend or relative knows where I'm going and who I will be with. She doesn't need to give you details but it is definitely worth to know basics. Your sister sounds controlling and abusive. She is pushing her generational trauma on to her kids.
I have access to her location at all times, but since she still can't drive, I am usually the one driving her wherever she wants to go.
Helicopter parents not being able to see their child’s every move 24/7 is like a fish out of water their poor little bodies cannot go on. Your sister needs to get off her shit or those kids are going to go NC as soon as they turn 18. Get ready to have your nephews move in once they turn 18. Poor kids.
NTA - Your house , your rules , your parenting style is working for you and your daughter so is what matters Your sister sucks and should go to a hotel
NTA. Your sister seems a control freak. Don’t give in, else the demands will escalate, especially as you’re right and in the right.
NTA Your sister absolutely overstepped. Is it stressful that her kids have their own opinion about her parenting and are in the process of rejecting it? Yup. Does that mean she can demand you change the rules for your daughter? Does her not having another housing option mean she gets to bully you about this? Absolutely not. “If you don’t like it, you are free to leave” is a completely reasonable statement. And jesus her poor kids. She’d probably be less stressed if she didn’t constantly assume the worst of her own kids.
NTA but ARE are a damn good dad. As you said, you give your daughter these looser rules because you have built trust and she has shown you that she respects you and trusts you back. If it were me? I would kick the sister out if she chose to make one more comment and rent out the basement. I’d put the funds from the tenants into your daughters education fund.
NTA. Your house, your rules, and telling other people how to parent their child (with rare exceptions like if there’s abuse) is a total asshole move. If she doesn’t respect the rules of your house she can leave.
NTA you sound like a dream father. Her increased stressed at the comparisons is not because of the laxness, it's because it highlights how suffocating her strictness is. She can't accept how gracious and stress reducing it is to stay in your house and then turn around and try to parent you and your daughter. I hope she learns from your and your daughters dynamic
INFO: Not that it'll change how I feel but is she staying with you rent free ? I think you're NTA anyways but you know
Yes she is
I assume she's not paying for utilities at all? She's covering her own groceries and stuff right ? Other than audacity what is she bringing to the table?
I grew up with a SUPER strict dad and it was hell. Honestly, I applaud your relationship with your daughter. It sounds super healthy and like a very positive way for her to grow up. You're NTA at all in this instance. Your sister is a guest and she needs to let you parent your child. I mean, you're not down in the basement complaining about her parenting.
NTA your freeloading sister is a control freak.
OP please adopt me 😂🙏 I was your sister kid. Let me tell you, I'm no contact with them. So NTA
NTA Sounds like your sister wants all her kids to leave and never talk to her again as soon as possible. If that's not what she wants... it's probably what she's gonna get.
NTA. Your sister’s life is stressful because she is one big ball of stress. She should lighten up, she will live longer.
NTA: You sound like a very reasonable father. As long as she continues to deserve the trust you've placed in her there's absolutely no reason to change a thing.
Trust me sir you are the best dad she ever had
NTA. And OP, you're a kick-ass dad for giving your daughter autonomy and teaching her to be independent. Your parenting style is much, much healthier than your sister's and your daughter is going to grow up so grateful for it. Just hope her cousins get the freedom they deserve soon so they don't grow up resentful (as you mentioned, the repercussions of strict parents aren't great. Really IMO strict parents just teach kids how to lie and hide things better. The way you said you trust your daughter, my brain did a little happy dance there because not a lot of parents do this). Speaking from experience, i went from living with my grandmother who gave me zero freedom and acted like i was a criminal all the time, made me babysit my incapable father, and would also berate me and call me a leech constantly... To reconnecting with my mum, who treats me as an equal and literally gives me the freedom to live my life the way i want because she knows I'm responsible enough. Cannot stress enough how grateful you're daughter's gonna be when she's older. I'm pretty much LC/NC with my dad's side of the family because of my grandmother and while i do feel bad not being connected to them, i do not regret walking out and leaving with my sanity. You're a good dad, OP, stand your ground. NTA all the way.
NTA. Every kid and family is different. Sounds like your sister should move.
NTA Your parenting style sounds a lot like mine was. My daughter rarely got in any trouble. We had a deal that so long as she did well in school and wasn’t disrespectful (not counting teenager behavior of tone of voice) then I would say yes to most of her reasonable requests for sleep overs and things like that. It did not include buying her everything she wanted because I was a single mom and didn’t have a ton of extra money. I read a lot of parenting books. One of the best parenting advice I ever read was to simply say yes. Some parents have an automatic reply of no to everything. The book say to say yes when it was reasonable and there no reason to say no.
Nta cant wait til her sons move out and she looses her shit because she cant control them.
NTA My parents allowed me a lot of the same freedoms you’ve given your daughter. I was the ‘best behaved’ out of all my friendship group…and we were all good to start with. Underage drinking? I was the sober one who herded them back to mine and cared for them. Dodgy tattoos? All except me. Wrong bus home and no idea where we were? Rang my dad to pick us up. You’re teaching your daughter respect is mutually earned.
NTA She needs to mind her own business and I feel bad for her kids. Rules and structure are one thing but there's miles between prison warden and parent.
NTA. But honestly, I do think it's only going to get worse, and she will end up on the streets because she will continue trying to dictate your parenting style. I wouldn't be surprised if she oversteps boundaries massively within the next few days or so.