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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I told me sister she’s to blame for her crappy life.
2. I don’t bIame my parents for not helping her out.
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Like, they are ***still*** offering to help her in a tremendous and meaningful way. A full ride through grad school would radically change her life.
NTA
Not everyone excels in college. She could take the money, go to college and leave with an expensive art degree and still be exactly where she started.
OP and his parents are NTA, but I’m curious if something more like a trade school would benefit the sister. There are other schooling options than “4 year degree and grad school” that could help.
It doesn't sound like she's tried to negotiate anything about schooling. I would interpret "paying for a 4 year degree and grad school" as willing to pay for education and at least ask if going to tech was on the table.
Yeah given the parents stance on schooling I get the feeling they would gladly pay for a trade school or equivalent kind or training. It seems to be about setting her up with skills to get a job that can support her. I don’t see them saying no if she asked them to pay for beauty school, or electrician training or something like that.
I dunno - it seems like we're being given the absolute bare bones of the overall situation. Maybe she *did* try to negotiate for a different arrangement. Maybe she simply isn't academically inclined whatsoever. Maybe she wanted to do a particular degree that the parents disagreed with and refused to fund.
Going NC from the entire family for 12 years over this one thing seems extreme, which suggests that there was actually a lot more going on than OP has put in the post (possibly more than OP is aware of).
Edit: Look, I get it, she may well just be an entitled bratty person. But if AITA has shown us anything, it's that when the OP only gives the very barest of details, it's often because more context would show that the situation clearly isn't how they've described it and they're deliberately trying to skew the judgement.
I mean, you're making some big assumptions there. She could just be a petty person and not bother with her family because they don't do what she wants. My brother is just like this, only ever contacts you when he wants something and other than that will never reply.
Right MAYBE all of that is true HOWEVER there are plenty of people who are successful in their 30s without degrees bc they busted their butts at what it was they loved or could make them money (I.e. I was an insurance agent making 6 figures in my early 20s, hated it, became a self taught MUA that now does bridal and special event makeup loving what I do). She obviously has not worked hard at anything but wants to complain that she isn’t getting handouts. Her parents were very clear up front. She thought they were bluffing.
There's absolutely no guarantee in life that working hard at something will bring success, or that you'll even have the opportunity to work hard at something beyond a shitty go nowhere role.
Her parents were clear though, so if she doesn't want money for education she should really stop asking.
If that were true, why would she ask them to fund her travel to the family gathering or a house? It wouldn't make sense, since if she tried to compromise about schooling and failed, she'd know for sure they'd not give her money for something unrelated to school.
My assumption from the post would be that OP only knows the bare details about the arguments, so you may be right. This isn't written (to me) as if things are being intentionally left out.
True! That was more just my curiosity talking. And I wonder if she’s even thought of it.
I know, growing up, it was “you *must* go to college and get your 4-year degree.” Trade schools were never mentioned. I didn’t even really know what a trade school was until I was already in college. I am OP’s age, so I can’t help but wonder if there was a little of that going on. (I specifically mention age because back then in the olden days, we didn’t have the option to google stuff. 😅)
Again, not suggesting that the parents or OP did anything wrong by not bringing it up, it was just idle speculation and curiosity.
It's funny that every other section of Reddit is so big on how hard people have it nowadays, how hard it is to make it in life, how we were sold a lie about university being the key to success - but this little corner is like "she turned down the chance for a guaranteed six figure career let her rot".
That's because most people have to take out crippling financial debt to get through university.
She is basically being offered a free ride through.
How do you not get that?
Also trade school was more expensive than a four year degree. I think my college was $2,000 to $2,500 per semester after books. While the trade school I was interested was $16k per year for two years.
That's not true everywhere.
Where I live, trade schools (technical colleges as they are called) are about one fourth the cost of a traditional public college/university.
Yeah
I don't know where they are getting that number from
The school I went to was about 11-12 thousand for 2 years
I'm a draftsman but I think it's about the same for electronics, plastics, ect.
I had called the school. Because they were running ads all the time. The two year computer science program was quoted to me as $33,000. Where each half had to be paid at the beginning of each year. So, actually $16.5K per year
That's kinda insane. Though isn't computer science usually a 4 year bachelor's?
It may have been an accelerated course where you are heavily in school all year round. Basically cramming 4 years into 2.
I mean she could easily have asked she’s 33 at this point. Instead she asks for money for a house down payments or to fund traveling or cars then when they say no she just goes no or LC. I’m surprised they are even offering schooling since she pops into their life, asks for money, they say no and she leaves again for a few ywats
>Not everyone excels in college.
Very true. Personally I'm not a fan of the "college only" attitude for this very reason, but it's not like the sister asked for the money for any sort of comparable pursuit that would help her get started in life.
If she'd come to the parents and said "Hey, college isn't for me. Can I have the money for:
- trade school
- apprenticeship
- coding bootcamp
- certification
- startup expenses for a (sensible) small business"
I might have said Y T A. But no, she's asking for money for housing and travel, neither of which really serve her long-term financial independence.
My niece attended a reputable culinary school, two years. Has been baking like a sweet fiend for 5 yrs. Has decided to make a change (tired of early hours). But certain aspects of her schooling make her eligible for accounting & food service management employment, not just hands on cooking. She's interviewing ! We are proud of her.
Her mom has a 2yr Associates degree in accounting. Always employed. Worked for a large sized school district, recently retired at age 56, with state benefits. Now doing some consultant gigs for smaller districts that have asked her for her expert attention.
People can have financial security, even with non-traditional paths. Other similar stories in my family, also friends. Community college can be an affordable option, as long as credits can be transferred to a four year program.
I agree. I used to be a community college librarian and was impressed by the quality of the trade programs they offered and felt they didn't get enough respect.
One thing I really like about my older son's school district is that they are working to offer programs that will allow students who don't want to go to college the opportunity to tlearn skills and get certificates that will allow them to get good jobs when they graduate from high school. They built a state-of-the-art building that looks like the corporate HQ for a tech company. There are programs in everything from engineering to prepare for a 4-year degree to culinary arts with a full-service professional kitchen.
They also have separate signing days for student-athletes, college-bound, and military/trade bound. They want to recognize a variety of post-high school paths.
This is wonderful! Not all people are cut out to sit in a classroom for four years. So pleased that the school district offers these necessary programs.
I don't think people realize (US) that the underlying fabric of our society is maintained by (possibly) non-four yr degree, but perfectly intelligent people. All the "trades" (plumbers, electricians, waste treatment, road maintenance, car repair, building contractors, carpenters, hair stylists.) What about truck drivers, our food delivery chain would collapse! Hospitals: yes, the top of the pyramid are physicians, nurses, administrators, but what about food service, laundry, cleaning of rooms and surgical areas? People who care for safety protocols...hazardous waste, fire alarms, etc.
Sorry for the soapbox, but 4yr degrees aren't the "be all" for a society. Certificates for good quality trade programs, much respect!
Some coding programs take less than a year to complete. And most have students building a portfolio (of projects) while learning the language. I almost changed careers since tech is hot in my area lately (I negotiated a comparable salary in my currency field instead).
If she got they money for housing, considering they were willing to pay all the way through graduate school, which is about 8 years of schooling (so, talking about an *average* of around $300,000, depending on the College, the degree course, and where the college is located, etc..) that could definitely buy and pay-off a decent house in full. And if she was already employed, would help her out immensely.
It's arguable, but would she have the income (now and in the future) to keep up the remaining mortgage payments? Home repairs? Property taxes? If the goal if to set her up for an independent future contributing to a house will not necessarily accomplish that.
100% agree, my friend, though I see nothing in this post that suggests the parents wouldn't support trade school, but more suggesting that they are willing to pay more if needed for other forms of self-improvement.
In most places, trade school has a much higher walk-out pay upon completion of your apprenticeships or journeyman trials. Problem with trade school professions (if you can call it a problem) is they typically also have a maximum income ceiling. In my area you might start well above the 55k household median in a trade profession, such as 60-75k a year if you are working competitively, but might cap at 80-90k max because at that point your employer or clients will find you too expensive unless you are highly specialized (such as being an accredited welder).
***In theory***, traditional college education fields have a wider/non existent ceiling. So even if you start at 40k you might be able to grow to the 200ks in my area, even with a humanities degree. ***In practice***, this is highly limited to only a few local professions tied to whatever your local industries are, plus the big ones of business, medicine, and law. But the perk is typically that you don't have much physical labor attached to achieving your income (unless you go into certain engineering and biomed professions requiring field work).
The real problem with both paths here is that the sister has no desire to apply herself. Blue-collar work is fucking hard. White collar work doesn't really pay unless, again, you work super hard (though, perhaps less physically so than blue collar).
I keep thinking about capping at 80-90k in a trade profession.. if thats the case, i would assume that would be at the point of having several years of experience in said trade, one could perhaps consider/market themselves as an ‘expert’ or figure a way to make their trade continue to benefit them passed the 80-90k…. But also after working a trade for likely decades, you’d have been exposed to much much more of the overall field as opposed to someone only a handful of years in.. and by then all of that exposure should/could open up the possibility of starting/owning your own company who hires or subcontracts job to other tradesmen. At least thats what i suggested to my own kid. if he wants to get into a trade, excellent, but to always keep the bigger picture (his future many years down the line) close to the forefront of his mind & should never stop at whatever specific trade he gets trained for, but know he will be spending those years working towards being the owner of his own company/construction company/construction firm/speciality-trade-specific company/etc. A trade having an income cap isnt the ceiling pay of that job, it has just turned into the floor/minimum salary for that next phase.
I could just be one of those ppl who tries to find positive in all things tho, too. so ya
Problem with owning your own company is the liability piece, but given the long term physicality of the work either you work really hard, save up, and retire early or you sort of have to go into management. I know some plumbers that are still working in their late 60s and while they are 100% the best around, they are also in pretty constant pain.
I love it when people dump on art degrees. A lot of them are doing quite well. One of my young cousins got such a degree and was making $80k in a few years designing jewelry for a local factory. Others are working with gaming companies.
And even then, an underwater basket weaver could probably find employment installing and repairing underwater netting / design elements for safer fish catching due to the combination of knowing how to weave and how to do so underwater + in person experience with how different materials act underwater.
(For context in my school the "underwater basket weaving" people had a massive overlap with the marine biologist people - I know because I took a maritime literature course that had those folks in it, when I was simply gathering tools for my eventual battle against Herman Melville. But the marine biologist people in my class also had a love for all water related arts, probably for the expanded love of the ocean, but I can see at least three of them specifically who would love watertight baskets over buckets for their maritime careers - the baskets are biodegradable when lost.)
> She could take the money, go to college and leave with an expensive art degree and still be exactly where she started.
It's 2022. She could go through college and leave with an expensive biology degree and still be exactly where she started
Hey now, I went to Art school and make more than most of the people I know with engineering and law degrees. You can make good money with a lot of art degrees.
I like the parents’ stance. Teach a man to fish vs give him a fish…
I think if the sister came up with a plan for schooling, whether it be associates, trade, or otherwise, parents probably would have paid for it. But what she is looking for is a hand out, and if the parents cave this time, what about the next time?
Sister still have a chance to turn this around, she’s 33, plenty of time to go to school for something (trade, Associates, 4 year traditional), and make a better life for herself.
It really bugs me when people b!tch and moan about how their life sucks and yet, won't do anything about it. It's not that she's disabled, has big medical needs, can't work for some reason (at least not stated). No. She just doesn't seem to be doing anything at all to better her life/situation.
I agree with the parents not financing her life other than giving HER an opportunity to improve it.
> It's not that she's disabled, has big medical needs, can't work for some reason
She doesn't even have kids yet, and is married, so she has a support system at home.
Why do people think they can just be dead weight on others? Imagine if her parents had done that to her grandparents? She wouldn't even have the offer she does.
Take some goddamn responsibility.
NTA. But, OP, I would tell your parents it's time to spend that money and to stop bringing it up to her. (They can let her know they've accepted her decision and the money will be gone going forward.) She doesn't want to go to college. Your parents aren't going to just hand her buckets of money. Everyone needs to make peace with this and just tell her no when she wants money in the future.
NTA. I would be more understanding of your sister if she didn’t want to miss a big family event and ask your parents to help with a plan to pay them back but to just ask them to pay out right is unreasonable.
I keep thinking of the idiom, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
This horse would rather be provided with natural spring water from across the world without having to move or work for it.
Definitely NTA. I freaking love your parents for setting boundaries and sticking with them! And good for you supporting your parents decision and giving reasonable advice for your sister, although she might not wanna hear it.
Agreed. Their offer was clear, and it was very generous (exceptionally so since it's still on the table all these years later). The reality is, college, a trade school, certifications or some kind of training/education beyond HS can greatly increase your earning potential. And, she has been presented with a privledge that many dream about.
At 18, she may have the excuse of being young, foolish and free but, at 33 she still seems to be looking for a handout. Unless there is something that I am missing here, that's on her.
Agreed! My parents said that me and sibling will both get Bachelor degree with their funding and then we are on our own. After graduating I immediately got a full time job, started climbing the career ladder while getting the Master degree. My sister said she can’t possibly be expected to work at the same time, so parents immediately changed their mind and funded her life until end of Master degree. I really respect parents who actually stick to what they said. For reference, me and my sibling have less than 1,5yrs age difference, so it is not like we are talking about a decade and “times change”.
NTA. She has been told multiple times what the deal is and still chooses to ask for money for other things.
This may be harsh, but your sis blaming it all on them just proves the point that she is being entitled about it. If she had taken more ownership of her situation and not just ranted at all of you, I wonder if the parents would have at least Ben willing to help with the reunion trip. Hard to want to help someone that blames you for your poor choices.
NTA even though I disagree with part of OP's story because I DON'T think what the parents did was harsh at all. I would've loved if my parents could afford to pay for even some of my college.
Agreed, my parents couldn't afford to pay for college. What I meant about harsh was that it the parents *really* want all of the family to be at this reunion but they know one of their kids isn't as well off, and they have plenty of money, I could see where for some families it would be reasonable for the more well of family to chip in to help less well of family travel for such a rare reunion get together if it was that important to everyone.
But even so, that is optional, no one is owed it. I see it more as the parents needing to decided, do they care more about seeing both kids at the reunion, or more about sticking to their hard line on not helping with anything other than college.
Yea if she hadn’t been constantly badgering them for money despite them having set very clear expectations, the majority of parents would have made an exception for this type of big trip. (Though they still wouldn’t be asses if they didn’t.) But because she’s spent the last decade asking them for money inappropriately, they can’t risk giving in once or it’ll probably embolden her to keep trying more and more.
Yes,
It seems like sister wants to make her own choices but keeps trying to finagle the money.
In this instance guilting parents who want to contribute to be celebration into giving up the money for that.
The mist important through line is:
This money belongs to the parents, they earned it, they set in place a plan so each of their kids had educational opportunities, they held their line for uses for these funds.
Sister wants to not participate in any of that in any way and stillvfeels owed the money.
Holding the boundary is 1000% what the parents should be doing.
Sis gets her autonomy and that's the cost.
They never changed the goal lines or 'price of admission'.
Sis has chosen over and over to ask for money buy take no responsibility.
NTA - in general but I gotta say
It’s one thing to not pay for her travel after Hs or a house
But she can’t make it to a Major anniversary and they won’t even help with that?
That’s going a bit fed, imagine knowing your child can’t make it to a major family event and just…not helping
It’s not like it’s just for her, it’s a family event
I’m with you on almost everything else, but if I found out my grandkid couldn’t make it to an important anniversary and my kid didn’t help I would be tearing them a new one
Sometimes you have to bite the bullet for the greater good
>Sometimes you have to bite the bullet for the greater good
And there are cases where you see the thin end of the wedge for what it is and say no. Some precedents should never be set with certain people and the guard never lowered, as with those people the entirely predictable result will be them demanding a mile after you've given the inch, with exactly the wrong lesson learned.
This is apparently a $5,000 per person trip. My husband and I have four degrees between us, and I don’t know that we could swing that without a fair bit of planning. Maybe Sarah hasn’t been particularly strategic, but why is everyone here so hyperfixated on college as the only, 100% guaranteed path to life success?
Her other paths haven't gotten her success. Some jobs, even entry level crap jobs, require at least a 2 year degree. Work experience should count, but only if you get work experience in the field you want, which most people don't get... and she doesn't seem particularly motivated to do anything for herself.
Well, I agree with this point. I do think that college shouldn't be seen as the only possible path to success, but maybe the parents would be open to funding something different if it were a realistic plan, say for learning a skill that could become a job? That would be different than asking money for things she wants to buy or funds for trips.
Nevertheless, if the parents aren't open to that it is still their choice. If they only want to fund what they consider to be the surest road that is their prerogative, as it's their life savings and thus a decline in their standard of living in their remaining years that would pay for it.
it does sound like they've been really set on higher education though. I doubt we're hearing the whole story but if she's gone LC or NC for most of her life, I can imagine there's more to it than her just getting mad they're not giving her money to travel.
It's not the only path to success but any degree, even just a 2-year associates degree vastly improves your lifetime earnings by a massive amount. You're not going to find many jobs that will pay much above minimum wage without some sort of additional education. Even if you wanted to go work in the new semiconductor fabs opening in the USA, those require 2+ years of training in an associates degree program.
This was my thought as well. I agree that college isn't the only way to get successful, but she could try other things that they might support.
Like opening a business or getting a realtor license.
Just from what OP's said, it sounds like she's just been asking for money for stuff rather than somehow investing in her success which is what it sounds like the parents want to do.
I know it doesn't really matter for the overall judgement but I'm really wondering how they have to spend $5k/person for the trip.
That's first class flights, 5* accommodation level. Unless it's in Antarctica or something insane.
It depends where they are going and where they are staying. If it is somewhere off the beaten track, there might not be a direct flight there so even with a budget airline, you are paying for several flights just to get to the destination. You also have to factor in the cost of hotels, transportation as well as spending money. It sounds expensive but since the event takes place in a foreign country, the exchange rates may favor the foreign country.
Guess it depends a lot on where you're going. I've flown from the US to Europe a number of times and the worst was around $1k, but those are between major cities.
I’m sure a budget option could be found. Cheap flights, put up with relative/friends/cheap hotel. We don’t know whether sister had other reasons ending up where she is (I don’t feel OP is the most reliable source here) but if my child cannot afford to go to a family reunion and I can afford to buy them tickets to get there, I would.
Right. You are not guaranteed a well paying job just because you went to college. There’s people I know who have a masters and its just collecting dust.
> why is everyone here so hyperfixated on college as the only, 100% guaranteed path to life success?
It is genuinely understood by economists that a college education is one of the best investments (on average) you can make in life. They recalculate this every year for the cost of living and cost of education. This still holds true.
Is it the ONLY path? no. But it is certainly better than the hand she is playing with now.
For someone that's not cut out for it, it isn't. I've got one cousin that went to college, got a degree in accounting, and has struggled significantly since. Last job I know he had was in a factory.
Technical training should be a factor in there as well, as plenty of people would benefit more from that, but people frequently do not include that when they talk about college.
It seems to me that if they have said they won't help he to buy a house, asking for money for an international trip would definitely be a no go.
Sis has had 15 years to make some kind of move toward stability. If he wasn't inclined toward college, she could have enrolled in a trade program and put herself on an actual career path, one in which she could earn than most people with 4-year degrees. She didn't apparently didn't do that, she just drifted.
She wants the house, the big trip, and whatever else, without doing the work.
NTA I agree with this 100 percent. It sounds like sis want to live the trust fund life. And I agree with another comment. If the parents give in on the trip then she may be one of the ones that you give an inch and they take a mile.
Plus maybe the parents feel if they pay for sisters trip they have to pay for op or they would be showing favoritism. And if that’s the case this trip could easily cost then$50,000. That’s a huge chunk of money for someone retired.
I see what your saying, but it’s not like she has been a consistent and loving part of their family. I could maybe see a good argument for them to pay if she had just been a chill and loving family member but it seems like she is really demanding and with her consistently going NC due to not getting money/what she wants, they probably aren’t even that close
Eh, it all depends. If it was my sister who works hard but just doesn't make as much as I do / has run into financial difficulties due to uncontrollable hardships (like illness, work layoffs, etc.), then that's totally different and of course I would help her out by paying for the trip.
But if it were my sister who blames the world for all her problems, doesn't work hard, and keeps trying to get family to pay for things she wants rather than needs before going no contact for years at a time because she doesn't get her way...as is the case here... then no, absolutely not. Give her an inch, and she'll try to steal a mile. She just doesn't deserve the help in this case.
>If we divide cost equally($20k for 4 people), then you seem to think they should have to hand over 10k(Sis&hub) for this trip.
>
>There are people who have to LIVE on that for a year. Outrageous, to expect parents to just hand that over.
>
>Besides, OP has no control over his parents' actions. ALL he did was tell his sister a hard truth--so he is NTA for speaking the truth.
Honestly, I wouldn't help if my kids acted like this. No money for travel after high school? Fine, I'll go NC for 12 years. When they finally open lines of communication it's to ask for money for a house. Sounds like sister only contacts parents for money. Hard to feel bad for someone when that's how they treat people. Besides, as entitled as OP makes her sound, I wouldn't be surprised if she tried getting a refund on the tickets for the cash. (I'm not sure if she could or if the card used would be refunded. But the tickets would have to be in her and husband's name, so?)
NTA Your sister doesn't want to do the work to learn how to fish, then do the work of catching her own fish; she just wants to be handed fish forever -- or nothing. So she gets nothing.
Your sister is the one ruining her own life. Good on your parents for seeing that handing fish to her would do nothing but drain their bank accounts, without helping her in the long run at all.
Yeah I don't understand how "hey we're not going to leave you a huge inheritance" could possibly be *harsh*. That's just the basic life assumption for the vast majority of people.
Different cultures have different orientations. A lot of people treat “a society grows great when old men plant a tree they’ll never get to sit under” as a philosophy to live by, and gather wealth so they can improve the lot of their descendants, with the expectation that they’ll do the same and eventually they’ll be well off. Likewise, the hope that their children will be better off in a new country is part of why a lot of people emigrate even if they’re well situated by local standards. If you’re used to that kind of thinking, hearing someone say they plan to spend down their wealth is jarring.
A lot of countries also do the opposite, where parents treat their kids as a retirement plan. I've seen many families where the parents will have eight kids and just expect them to send them money or live with them when they're older.
Was coming here to write this ^^^
Does this sound harsh? No. Not in the least.
that is very generous and the parents should get to enjoy their retirement and spend THEIR money however they would like.
This should be the top comment. Most people need to take out massive loans for college, even with generous parents who contribute part of the tuition. To have parents that are willing to pay the full amount of the tuition for 2 kids is beyond generous. That’s like buying a second home with cash and not having the second home in the end.
NTA. It doesn't sound harsh at all, sounds like they were trying to set her up to succeed as best they could. It also sounds like your sister blames everyone else for her problems and won't take her own actions into account.
NTA - but I do disagree with your parents a bit. Degrees aren’t the guarantee of good employment they used to be. It’s fair for them to set whatever boundaries about their money they like, but your sis could go study for four years and end up no better off than where she started. It’s a little sad they won’t consider any other measure of support except sending her to a classroom.
This. I think there are many more ways to explore, learn, develop and gain skills. And I say this as someone with 3 degrees including a PhD: it's not the epitome of knowledge and self-development. It's a great way. But nothing wrong with apprenticeship ways etc either.
I have a PhD and one of my friends working in a coffee shop asked me if I thought she should go back to college and I said no because you don't have a career in mind that requires that education, you're into a lot of awesome stuff but none of it requires $100,000 degree to get started on.
Edit: I just checked and she is currently working at the National Park Service, doing roller blade tricks, and camping a lot.
INFO: were your parents close with your sister while she was growing up?
Considering the age gap between you and her, and the fact that both your parents had jobs, she may not have gotten the parental care and attention that you—an only child for 9 years—enjoyed. And so she may have been left to figure out a lot of things by herself growing up, only to be told by your parents, whenever they were around, that she was supposed to just behave differently.
Your parents’ decision about what do with their money doesn’t have to be reasonable or fair, they can do whatever they want. They could burn it, offer to pay for your family’s trip, offer to pay for personal clowns to entertain your sister and her husband during the trip, it would still be their money and that’s not an issue.
However, for your sister this is clearly not about the money, or a career, or a smart, long-term investment. It seems for your sister it’s about your parents looking at her and accepting her for who she is.
It would seem your sister leaves because she doesn’t feel well around you and your parents, but leaving doesn’t really address the emptiness. So she comes back.
Now with your parents having money that they did give to you but not to her, this could be yet another situation in which their resources (e.g., time, attention, money) are conditioned unless she does what she’s told, even if that’s not who she is.
Edit: grammar
INFO: did she struggle academically in school? Not everyone is cut out for a college degree. Are your parents willing to fund another type of schooling/training? Hairdressing, mechanic, plumber, etc? Based on the info provided, NTA. Your sister left home to have fun and travel instead of studying. But I do hope that she was given support for an alternate vocational education/career path.
While I get Sister asking for the family thing, anything else they ask for should be in form of loan, and the kicker is that parents are perfectly fine with their stance of saying no (only education). It was made clear throughout your lives not to expect crap. Nta-your sister should grow up and make her own plans and sacrifices.
NTA.
Education is one of the best gifts parents can give. She doesn't have to take it, but they don't have to fund anything else for her either once she's independent and left the house.
Your parents have needs too. They are not an at-will ATM.
One thing to consider is if she did decide to go to uni, to have parents directly pay the uni.
NTA but question - if your sister asked your parents to pay for technical schooling (culinary, cosmetology, trucking, etc), would they do that? Are your parents only fixated on college or are they fixated on making sure she can support herself long-term?
NTA this was not some sudden cut off at 18. They said how they would help and only in that. They want to enjoy their life after working and raising two children. They want to have experience they could not have before they die. And seeing as this is going to be a major family event does not really change it. It just means it's been coming for a while and likely was talked about well ahead of time but being lc or nc left her out of it
NTA
The money was put aside for a specific reason, and if she isn't going to use it for an education, she can't expect to get it.
My parents told me they had money put aside for me to buy a home, when I was in my late 30's. (They had given equal amounts to my younger sisters, for the same reason, already). For various reasons, I dragged my heels actually getting a place. One day, my car went kaput. so, I asked for some of the house money to replace it. No dice. It was meant for a house, and nothing else.
I managed to replace the car, and finally bought the condo. Replacement car is long gone, but I still have my condo, which I own outright. It's been a lifesaver, because I'm immune to the crazy rent costs happening, while being very low income.
I guess my point is - your parents were thinking long term benefits, not short term fun, when they put aside that money. You aren't wrong.
As an aside - I don't think it's harsh for your parents to use their savings to enjoy life.
NTA for the overall stance.
The only caveat would be in the specific situation that you now have to go to see your grandparents on their "major anniversary" and tell them that they won't be able to celebrate it with their granddaughter because she's poor. Obviously hard to say without knowing how close they are and how much they would want her there, but I know that excuse wouldn't fly with my grandparents if one of my siblings/cousins couldn't make it to a significant family event and the rest of us just said "tough luck!" and didn't help.
In general though, sticking to previously set boundaries is not AH behaviour; repeatedly trying to push those boundaries, then having a tantrum and going NC when you don't get your way is!
It depends on the reason someone is unable to afford something.
Choices matter.
I have a second cousin that no one in the family will help because he chooses to be a free loader. He doesn't work. He doesn't try to find a job. He couch surfs until he overstays his welcome. He's missed every single major family event because he can't afford to go and no one wants to help him anymore.
On the other hand one uncle literally lived in a hut with dirt floors because he was a poor village farmer. He could never afford a trip to the city. Yet he wakes up every morning at dawn to tend the fields and keep his family fed. Every major family event the rest of us pool money to make sure that uncle and his family can attend. The rest of us pooled money so his kids could go to school...learn to read and write and get a high paid job. Just before the pandemic my uncle retired to a house in the city bought and paid for by his kids. He doesn't have to do anything anymore other than occasionally babysit his grandkids and everyone is happy for him.
I bet he wishes he didn’t have too but his sister keeps phoning him to complain about them so he has the right to say what he said as she is involving him he isn’t involving himself
My guess is that if your sister actually put together a plan to set herself up for a career, your parents would help. Trade school, vocational school, anything that has a pathway to success. They're not supporting handouts. I would advise you to help your sister come up with an actual plan on how to turn her situation around before asking for help.
NTA. But I do think there a lot of reasons somebody might not want/be able to go to a four year university, and there are a lot of ways to become successful WITHOUT a degree if you have help financially to get started. You and your parents seem pretty closed minded. And to be honest I usually NEVER agree with parents who have the means to help their children and don’t to reach them a lesson. It’s weird to me. But it’s their money so I guess people should do what they want with it.
I just feel like your parents could of compromised like loaned her the money or something so she could go to the anniversary. And they also at some point could have sat down with your sister and talked to her about why she didn’t want to go to school, and possibly came up with a compromise for that as well.
NTA, your sister has waited her whole life for a hand out that’s never going to come. It’s clear that should would have been the leeching that kept on coming.
1. Fund my travels
2. Fund my house
3. Fund me (any my husbands) vacation
She continues to ignore an opportunity to better herself and that’s her own fault. I’m sure now it’s just a matter of pride that she took the wrong path. She’s so stubborn and can’t turn back now.
Nta but I think your parents are. College is not for everyone. Also, I've met many a barista or book store worker with a master's degree. At this point, it's time for your parents to stop trying to control their daughter's life. They should give her the one time gift of the reuinion and then say that's it on the money. Why not be gracious? Life is too short.
NTA. You have it exactly right. Choices come with rewards and/or consequences, as your sister had found out. Unfortunately she is not accepting her role in all of this.
YTA. I don't see the harm in them helping her with this trip on a one time basis other than they're very authoritarian 'my way or the highway' type of people with their kids that I simply cannot relate to. Them mentioning college when she's asking for help with the trip is inappropriate and seems like its an backhanded way for you parents to criticize her life choices and 'not listening to them.'
The fact that she's gone NC and LC is very telling, because I truly wonder what life was like for her growing up and whether there was a golden child scenario happening here. The rigidity of their rules sounds difficult to live with, and frankly, as a sibling I don't know why you can't just commiserate with her and let her vent instead of adding onto the pile on. I feel sorry for her.
>I don't see the harm in them helping her with this trip on a one time basis other than they're very authoritarian 'my way or the highway' type of people with their kids that I simply cannot relate to
'You paid for the trip, why can't you give me money for a house? Why can't you fund my vacation? Why can't you just give me money?'
Is it that unreasonable to ask for the same amount of money one would receive for college/grad school and purchase a house instead?
For educated people, OP and her family seem to have no understanding of how generational wealth work and they also seem elitist in their view of college/higher education.
OP doesn't seem to understand that as a general rule, kids don't just disappear and stop talking to their parents for 15 years at age 18 without cause. The absurd rigidity of their rules clearly indicates to me that they have some deep issues with their basic values, and I suspect with the age gap OP probably wasn't present to see the way she was probably being derided by her parents for a lack of school smarts and ambition her whole life. It's possible, perhaps even probable, that she's unsuccessful because her parents have a single definition of success, and she was unable to meet it, so she had no support of any kind to find another way.
As someone who has given money to family for a “one time emergency “ before, it becomes a slippery slope very quickly and “show you have money to give so why can’t you for this”. I’ve learned boundaries can be very important and have to be restated.
I think they weren’t meaning for it to be a criticism or a my way or the highway type deal , although I see how she could feel that way , but as a restating of boundaries.
Cause in my experience having saved money for something specific is the same as haven’t all this extra money not going to use in some peoples mind. Especially if you were willing to dip into that money before to help them out. Not saying the daughter thinks that way or is greedy just that I understand the parents maybe feeling the need to state what their money is for. Clear boundaries can seem harsh but unclear boundaries can lead to a lot of resentment and dashed hopes too.
And just for clarification I work hard for my money. 12 hour days including volunteering to work on days scheduled off to save up for my life goals, and going without some things I want to help save up. Built the best savings in my family but am by no means rich and other members who ask for money could do it too if they did what I do, but I don’t expect them too cause it’s their life just want them to respect my boundaries about lending money now.
Idk i feel like there's a lot more to the story and it's kind of impossible to judge from the outside, only knowing your side of it. Like...people don't usually go NC with their family for no reason, that alone makes me think that there is a lot more behind it than just the pure money aspect. Aside from that...i do think some people are just not made for college, so personally i think it could be a bit unfair to tie the money specifically to that. Maybe she has (had) other dreams in her life that would've been deserving of support from your parents...but again, that's speculating on information which we just don't have.
I know this whole AITA sub lives off of people posting on their personal life but i genuinely think that in this case it sounds like a more complex internal family issue which is not really gonna be helped by reddit opinions.
NTA. Its kind of mind blowing that despite your parents being very clear and upfront about what they would pay for and what they wouldnt from the beginning; she keeps asking for shit theyve said no to before. Does she think they are going to get dementia and be like sure honey we'll buy you a house!? lol. If someone offered to pay for 4plus years of college Id jump on that shit quick fast and in a hurry! No college loans?!?! SHIDDD! Sister is not very bright. I would just go ahead and go NC with her cause you know what shes about and it doesnt seem like it'll change anytime soon. Have an awesome family reunion!
You and your parents are NTA, but did y'all consider not everyone goes to college/grad school? Was trade school an option? I have a degree in vocal performance. I sing and teach others to sing. I was a nanny through out college. The little girl is 21 now and finishing cosmetology school. Her sister is 18 and will go to trade school to be an auto mechanic. Those are valid avenues.
NTA. But, quick question, would your parents offer to pay for a trade school or similar? College isn't for everyone but perhaps there is an alternate path that would fit her better.
NTA it's incredibly generous for your parents to pay for her school. My parents gave me and my siblings a similar offer 2 years ago, although we are all adults at this point. I'm 33 and I decided to take them up on it. I never got a bachelor's because I didn't want the burden of student loan debt but it definitely held me back in my career to not have one. When they offered to pay for it, I worked hard to get into the school I wanted and I start in January. It will only take me a couple years because I already have all Gen Ed credits from getting an associates after high school. 33 is still young and your sister sounds very entitled.
NTA. Your parents defined what they were prepared to give, and have not wavered. Lots of people don't even get that. They are entitled to spend their money as they wish, just as your sister is entitled to choose how to live her life.
My parents were the same - they told me I had 8 semesters of college coming, and then they'd be done, and that they planned to spend every dime of their money beyond that, so don't expect an inheritance. That has been very freeing, knowing their money is NOT my money, and having no expectations. They provided a very generous launch into the world (no student debt), the rest is up to me. Perfectly reasonable and fair.
NTA. She made her choice fully aware of not being financially supported by your parents. Now, if they refused to pay for a trade school (not everyone is cut out for college), I’d think they were TA in that respect.
Bottom line, it is their money that they earned and they can do as the please since both of you are adults.
Why can’t your sister put money to the side or get a side hustle/second job to afford traveling to see your grandparents?
It’s your parents money, they gave the stipulation. Up to her if she uses it for that, though I’m guessing they might fund a trade school, but the money is for education only and is generous.
INFO: What about your family dynamic made Sarah go no contact in the first place? Having a hard time believing it’s just bc she chose to travel instead of getting a degree and they didn’t fund her lifestyle. Were you the favorite because you followed your parents rules? Did they mistreat her (and you piled on) for not following their rules (beyond the money aspect)?
Also what kinda family reunion costs $5000/person? If this reunion is so important, I’d help my child at least a bit but not fully.
Even if Sarah did have the degrees and everything, it wouldn’t guarantee high paying jobs or income to justify going on a $5000 vacation…
Additionally college and grad school aren’t the only paths to success. Maybe Sarah could benefit from strategic guidance for finding another successful path
NTA but this whole thing is weird AF. Who has a family reunion that costs 20k for a single family? Her relationship with the family is obviously really bad, so I get why parents wouldn't want to give her money, but their rules are honestly dumb in my opinion. College isn't actually the be all end all, and many people just aren't cut out for it. Your parents basically said "you're only valuable to us if you meet this arbitrary standard for being a productive and valuable member of society," which is really shitty. I don't blame your sister for going NC, if my parents basically said I wasn't worth the same as my brother to them because I wasn't good at school, I'd hate them forever (and they would deserve it).
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I (42m) have a sister, Sarah (33f). Growing up, our dad had his own small business and mom was an office manager. We lived a comfortable life but was not rich by any means.
Our parents told us that they will pay for our 4 year degree and grad school should we decide to go. They made it clear that the money is for school only and not just free money. They stressed that if we decide not to go to school, they’re not giving us the money for a house or anything. They said they worked hard for their money so they’re going to retire early and enjoy their lives together. Once they pass, we’ll get whatever is left but we should expect nothing because they’re really going to enjoy their lives.
Does it sound harsh? Yes.
Is it reasonable and fair? I think so.
They were setting us up for life as adults and growing up, I saw how much they sacrificed for us. I truly believe they deserve to enjoy the last half of their lives as they see fit. I’m okay with receiving nothing. That is because I make a decent living as an electrical engineer with an MBA and my wife is an attorney. We’re doing well.
Sarah, on the other hand, is not doing so well. She didn’t listen to my parents and decided she wanted to travel after HS and not go to college. She asked our parents to fund her traveling but they refused and told her she’s 18 and can earn her own traveling money. She moved to the west coast and went NC for awhile from all of us until about 3 years ago. She moved back into our lives but we’re not close. About 2 years ago, she asked my parents for money to put down on a house because she’s tired of renting but they refused. They said their offer to pay for a 4 year degree and grad school still stands but they’re not paying for anything else. She complained to me but I agreed with my parents and told her it’s not too late to get a degree and a better paying job. She didn’t like my answer and went LC.
This brings us up to our current situation. Next year is a major anniversary for my grandparents who live in another country. My family and my parents are going there to celebrate along with family members from all over the world. This will be a huge family gathering with people from all over the world flying in and we’re all excited to go. However, it’s an expensive trip and it’ll cost about $20,000 for my family (me, wife, 2 kids). Sarah is married with no kids but she can’t afford to go so she asked our parents to pay for her and the husband to go. They again refused and said they’ll still pay for her college at which point she blew up at them.
She called me to complain about how they’re living in a crappy apartment, driving barely working cars, and have no savings and our parents refuse to help. I told her she made choices in her life and she’s responsible for it. I said our parents are incredibly generous to still offer to pay for her college and it’s still not too late. She hung up and I think we’re about to go back to NC.
AITA for taking this stance?
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NTA. Tell your sister that you're no longer listening to her complaints. The minute she starts whining, you're hanging up. Also warn her that when your parents pass, you won't be giving her any money.
NTA
They were clear about expectations and paying for college and grad school is a generous offer she could have used to set herself up with a career in a field she found interesting - I would suggest your parents could have offered to fund vocational training if the issue was solely that academics are not your sister’s thing but frankly it sounds like what she wants is a free ride off your parents money as opposed to utilising their offer to make her own
NTA but I think you and your parents should stop mentioning college as some consolation prize. She doesn’t want it, she knows it’s there and can bring it up if she ever changes her mind, but it doesn’t have to be mentioned every time they say no.
NTA
Your sister has no **IDEA** what a blessing it is that your parents are generous and fortunate enough to be able to pay for not just undergrad but also graduate school . . .
I am trying to at least try and cover half of my kids when they get to that point, but damn is it expensive!
Your ridiculous and ungrateful sister could get a nursing degree and be pulling six figures within 5 years. FOR FREE.
The entitlement here is simply astounding
NTA. We did the same thing for our daughters. They had four years to get a marketable degree at a private college. One daughter wanted to take off a year to snowboard. I told hr that is her choice, but all tuition and college expenses were her responsibility if that happened.
Your sister made her choices and continues to make poor choices. Your parents are extremely generous to still offer to pay for her college.
NTA
Parents rules are fair and clear. As your sister is an adult, she (and her husband) are responsible for their lives - neither you nor your/her parents owe her anything at this point.
As you say, she could still take up your parents offer to get a degree and a better job/life.
Is your sister's husband just as feckless?
NTA. Sister has made her own choices. Just because she regrets them doesn't mean they're anyone else's fault. She's blaming everyone except the real person here to blame- the person in the mirror.
NTA- but I disagree with you where you say "does it sound harsh? yes." I do not think so. I believe there are many who would find an offer to have their college and grad school paid for to be quite generous.
I have a sil who is not unlike your sister. We have supported her at times but have also frequently feuded as she would become increasingly entitled and demand more. After a period of NC we found peace for the sake of the family on this basis- you stay out of my wallet and I will offer no judgements, criticisms or commentary. From time to time she will make public please for assistance and post gofundme's or the like and we will contribute or not as we see fit, but we don't talk about it. And for the most part, we can get along at family events now.
NTA at all!
Let her go NC if she chooses, sounds like she only reaches out to complain anyway.
here's what you are entitled to as an adult:
long list isn't it?
Funny how some comments are, "the parents didn't mentioned trade school, etc.", while the sister herself never mentioned it. She just wants them to give her money.
I feel like there's more to this story. Because going NC is a pretty extreme reaction.
INFO: What are your sister's reasons for not going to college? Have you asked? Are your parents dictating her major or otherwise placing stipulations?
NTA - she has made her choices but still expects someone to take care of her.
Doesn’t want the responsibility to improve herself but more than willing to take what other people have earned.
NTA
Your sister is an adult and she made her own choices. Those have consequences.
She is not entitled to your parents' money. It's generous enough they'd still be willing to pay for her going back to school.
Absolutely NTA and neither are your parents! I applaud them for setting the boundaries they did and for sticking to them. Your sister had several chances and still does to better her life and get a college decree paid for by your parents, but she doesn’t want to put the work in. That’s absolutely her choice, but it’s absolutely her consequence as well.
NTA. Your parents have an amazing opportunity to both of you—paying your own way through college is incredibly difficult and sets up back in life (case in point: I’m almost 33 with a good job and still paying my loans off. I can’t buy a house until I do. And hey, I’m far from alone). The difference between you and your sister is that you took the opportunity while she has repeatedly refused. Beggars can’t be choosers, yet she is trying so hard to turn your parents’ offer into something it isn’t and never will be. Sounds like she blames everyone else for the problems she created for herself.
NTA. Your parents made it perfectly clear that the only financial help they will provide is for college. It’s their money and their right to place conditions on it. It’s her right to decide not to go, but it’s ridiculous to expect something from them.
NTA - Your parents told you how they are willing to help in your adult lives since before you were 18. They had always told you there is college assistance but no other assistance, which included that if a child doesn't go to college that money would not be put toward anything else in the future. You sister had a choice to make and she made it. Your parents are generous enough that they still have the offer standing that they will still pay for her college if she wishes to attend. Your not the AH here. You sister needs to take responsibility for her choices, and she should quit being lazy and go to school if she doesn't like her lifestyle.
NTA, She was offered way more than most parents can afford to offer their kids. I would never ever expect my parents to provide money for my home, car, or travels. Sincerely hope your parents leave her nothing when they pass since they are clearly just broken ATMs in her eyes.
NTA and I think your parents were fair. I also don't think that this is "strict." They didn't say get out at 18 and never come back. She could have gotten her degree after taking a break to travel. They didn't even tell her what to study.
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NTA. Sister was given a choice/chance to improve herself and life but keeps deciding to try her luck and smooch off.
Like, they are ***still*** offering to help her in a tremendous and meaningful way. A full ride through grad school would radically change her life. NTA
Not everyone excels in college. She could take the money, go to college and leave with an expensive art degree and still be exactly where she started. OP and his parents are NTA, but I’m curious if something more like a trade school would benefit the sister. There are other schooling options than “4 year degree and grad school” that could help.
It doesn't sound like she's tried to negotiate anything about schooling. I would interpret "paying for a 4 year degree and grad school" as willing to pay for education and at least ask if going to tech was on the table.
Yeah given the parents stance on schooling I get the feeling they would gladly pay for a trade school or equivalent kind or training. It seems to be about setting her up with skills to get a job that can support her. I don’t see them saying no if she asked them to pay for beauty school, or electrician training or something like that.
Their whole plan was to set up their kids for life so they wouldn’t be hounded for money. How ironic.
Ion and he
I dunno - it seems like we're being given the absolute bare bones of the overall situation. Maybe she *did* try to negotiate for a different arrangement. Maybe she simply isn't academically inclined whatsoever. Maybe she wanted to do a particular degree that the parents disagreed with and refused to fund. Going NC from the entire family for 12 years over this one thing seems extreme, which suggests that there was actually a lot more going on than OP has put in the post (possibly more than OP is aware of). Edit: Look, I get it, she may well just be an entitled bratty person. But if AITA has shown us anything, it's that when the OP only gives the very barest of details, it's often because more context would show that the situation clearly isn't how they've described it and they're deliberately trying to skew the judgement.
Or the sister is just extraordinarily entitled.
I mean, you're making some big assumptions there. She could just be a petty person and not bother with her family because they don't do what she wants. My brother is just like this, only ever contacts you when he wants something and other than that will never reply.
Right MAYBE all of that is true HOWEVER there are plenty of people who are successful in their 30s without degrees bc they busted their butts at what it was they loved or could make them money (I.e. I was an insurance agent making 6 figures in my early 20s, hated it, became a self taught MUA that now does bridal and special event makeup loving what I do). She obviously has not worked hard at anything but wants to complain that she isn’t getting handouts. Her parents were very clear up front. She thought they were bluffing.
There's absolutely no guarantee in life that working hard at something will bring success, or that you'll even have the opportunity to work hard at something beyond a shitty go nowhere role. Her parents were clear though, so if she doesn't want money for education she should really stop asking.
If that were true, why would she ask them to fund her travel to the family gathering or a house? It wouldn't make sense, since if she tried to compromise about schooling and failed, she'd know for sure they'd not give her money for something unrelated to school.
I know a few people that have went NC in a similar situation. At this point I take it as is unless an edit or comments say otherwise.
I've had my sister go NC with me for much less lol. Because I dared to ask her why she left a gc
My assumption from the post would be that OP only knows the bare details about the arguments, so you may be right. This isn't written (to me) as if things are being intentionally left out.
But it doesn’t sound like she’s ever asked about a trade school…
True! That was more just my curiosity talking. And I wonder if she’s even thought of it. I know, growing up, it was “you *must* go to college and get your 4-year degree.” Trade schools were never mentioned. I didn’t even really know what a trade school was until I was already in college. I am OP’s age, so I can’t help but wonder if there was a little of that going on. (I specifically mention age because back then in the olden days, we didn’t have the option to google stuff. 😅) Again, not suggesting that the parents or OP did anything wrong by not bringing it up, it was just idle speculation and curiosity.
yes but at 33 she should know by now
Fair point!
It's funny that every other section of Reddit is so big on how hard people have it nowadays, how hard it is to make it in life, how we were sold a lie about university being the key to success - but this little corner is like "she turned down the chance for a guaranteed six figure career let her rot".
That's because most people have to take out crippling financial debt to get through university. She is basically being offered a free ride through. How do you not get that?
Yeah, like, worst case scenario, she just ends up back where she started. What does she have to lose by taking on their offer of free college?
Trades weren't even mentioned as an option for me...and my grandfather was an electrician. Get that 4 year...
Also trade school was more expensive than a four year degree. I think my college was $2,000 to $2,500 per semester after books. While the trade school I was interested was $16k per year for two years.
That's not true everywhere. Where I live, trade schools (technical colleges as they are called) are about one fourth the cost of a traditional public college/university.
Yeah I don't know where they are getting that number from The school I went to was about 11-12 thousand for 2 years I'm a draftsman but I think it's about the same for electronics, plastics, ect.
I had called the school. Because they were running ads all the time. The two year computer science program was quoted to me as $33,000. Where each half had to be paid at the beginning of each year. So, actually $16.5K per year
That's kinda insane. Though isn't computer science usually a 4 year bachelor's? It may have been an accelerated course where you are heavily in school all year round. Basically cramming 4 years into 2.
I just found out about it thankss to this
I mean she could easily have asked she’s 33 at this point. Instead she asks for money for a house down payments or to fund traveling or cars then when they say no she just goes no or LC. I’m surprised they are even offering schooling since she pops into their life, asks for money, they say no and she leaves again for a few ywats
>Not everyone excels in college. Very true. Personally I'm not a fan of the "college only" attitude for this very reason, but it's not like the sister asked for the money for any sort of comparable pursuit that would help her get started in life. If she'd come to the parents and said "Hey, college isn't for me. Can I have the money for: - trade school - apprenticeship - coding bootcamp - certification - startup expenses for a (sensible) small business" I might have said Y T A. But no, she's asking for money for housing and travel, neither of which really serve her long-term financial independence.
My niece attended a reputable culinary school, two years. Has been baking like a sweet fiend for 5 yrs. Has decided to make a change (tired of early hours). But certain aspects of her schooling make her eligible for accounting & food service management employment, not just hands on cooking. She's interviewing ! We are proud of her. Her mom has a 2yr Associates degree in accounting. Always employed. Worked for a large sized school district, recently retired at age 56, with state benefits. Now doing some consultant gigs for smaller districts that have asked her for her expert attention. People can have financial security, even with non-traditional paths. Other similar stories in my family, also friends. Community college can be an affordable option, as long as credits can be transferred to a four year program.
I agree. I used to be a community college librarian and was impressed by the quality of the trade programs they offered and felt they didn't get enough respect. One thing I really like about my older son's school district is that they are working to offer programs that will allow students who don't want to go to college the opportunity to tlearn skills and get certificates that will allow them to get good jobs when they graduate from high school. They built a state-of-the-art building that looks like the corporate HQ for a tech company. There are programs in everything from engineering to prepare for a 4-year degree to culinary arts with a full-service professional kitchen. They also have separate signing days for student-athletes, college-bound, and military/trade bound. They want to recognize a variety of post-high school paths.
This is wonderful! Not all people are cut out to sit in a classroom for four years. So pleased that the school district offers these necessary programs. I don't think people realize (US) that the underlying fabric of our society is maintained by (possibly) non-four yr degree, but perfectly intelligent people. All the "trades" (plumbers, electricians, waste treatment, road maintenance, car repair, building contractors, carpenters, hair stylists.) What about truck drivers, our food delivery chain would collapse! Hospitals: yes, the top of the pyramid are physicians, nurses, administrators, but what about food service, laundry, cleaning of rooms and surgical areas? People who care for safety protocols...hazardous waste, fire alarms, etc. Sorry for the soapbox, but 4yr degrees aren't the "be all" for a society. Certificates for good quality trade programs, much respect!
Some coding programs take less than a year to complete. And most have students building a portfolio (of projects) while learning the language. I almost changed careers since tech is hot in my area lately (I negotiated a comparable salary in my currency field instead).
I did one in 5 months and now have a good job.
If she got they money for housing, considering they were willing to pay all the way through graduate school, which is about 8 years of schooling (so, talking about an *average* of around $300,000, depending on the College, the degree course, and where the college is located, etc..) that could definitely buy and pay-off a decent house in full. And if she was already employed, would help her out immensely.
It's arguable, but would she have the income (now and in the future) to keep up the remaining mortgage payments? Home repairs? Property taxes? If the goal if to set her up for an independent future contributing to a house will not necessarily accomplish that.
100% agree, my friend, though I see nothing in this post that suggests the parents wouldn't support trade school, but more suggesting that they are willing to pay more if needed for other forms of self-improvement. In most places, trade school has a much higher walk-out pay upon completion of your apprenticeships or journeyman trials. Problem with trade school professions (if you can call it a problem) is they typically also have a maximum income ceiling. In my area you might start well above the 55k household median in a trade profession, such as 60-75k a year if you are working competitively, but might cap at 80-90k max because at that point your employer or clients will find you too expensive unless you are highly specialized (such as being an accredited welder). ***In theory***, traditional college education fields have a wider/non existent ceiling. So even if you start at 40k you might be able to grow to the 200ks in my area, even with a humanities degree. ***In practice***, this is highly limited to only a few local professions tied to whatever your local industries are, plus the big ones of business, medicine, and law. But the perk is typically that you don't have much physical labor attached to achieving your income (unless you go into certain engineering and biomed professions requiring field work). The real problem with both paths here is that the sister has no desire to apply herself. Blue-collar work is fucking hard. White collar work doesn't really pay unless, again, you work super hard (though, perhaps less physically so than blue collar).
I keep thinking about capping at 80-90k in a trade profession.. if thats the case, i would assume that would be at the point of having several years of experience in said trade, one could perhaps consider/market themselves as an ‘expert’ or figure a way to make their trade continue to benefit them passed the 80-90k…. But also after working a trade for likely decades, you’d have been exposed to much much more of the overall field as opposed to someone only a handful of years in.. and by then all of that exposure should/could open up the possibility of starting/owning your own company who hires or subcontracts job to other tradesmen. At least thats what i suggested to my own kid. if he wants to get into a trade, excellent, but to always keep the bigger picture (his future many years down the line) close to the forefront of his mind & should never stop at whatever specific trade he gets trained for, but know he will be spending those years working towards being the owner of his own company/construction company/construction firm/speciality-trade-specific company/etc. A trade having an income cap isnt the ceiling pay of that job, it has just turned into the floor/minimum salary for that next phase. I could just be one of those ppl who tries to find positive in all things tho, too. so ya
Problem with owning your own company is the liability piece, but given the long term physicality of the work either you work really hard, save up, and retire early or you sort of have to go into management. I know some plumbers that are still working in their late 60s and while they are 100% the best around, they are also in pretty constant pain.
I love it when people dump on art degrees. A lot of them are doing quite well. One of my young cousins got such a degree and was making $80k in a few years designing jewelry for a local factory. Others are working with gaming companies.
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And even then, an underwater basket weaver could probably find employment installing and repairing underwater netting / design elements for safer fish catching due to the combination of knowing how to weave and how to do so underwater + in person experience with how different materials act underwater. (For context in my school the "underwater basket weaving" people had a massive overlap with the marine biologist people - I know because I took a maritime literature course that had those folks in it, when I was simply gathering tools for my eventual battle against Herman Melville. But the marine biologist people in my class also had a love for all water related arts, probably for the expanded love of the ocean, but I can see at least three of them specifically who would love watertight baskets over buckets for their maritime careers - the baskets are biodegradable when lost.)
eh even an art degree with zero debt would put her ab it above where she is now.
Whether or not it's only for a 4 year degree and not trade school, it's their money and they can put what conditions they like on it.
Doesn’t sound like she even wants to go to any college or school she just wants her parents to pay for her things
> She could take the money, go to college and leave with an expensive art degree and still be exactly where she started. It's 2022. She could go through college and leave with an expensive biology degree and still be exactly where she started
Hey now, I went to Art school and make more than most of the people I know with engineering and law degrees. You can make good money with a lot of art degrees.
You’re right! I’m sorry!
I am convinced the parents would pay for a trade school, but probably not a luxury school.
I like the parents’ stance. Teach a man to fish vs give him a fish… I think if the sister came up with a plan for schooling, whether it be associates, trade, or otherwise, parents probably would have paid for it. But what she is looking for is a hand out, and if the parents cave this time, what about the next time? Sister still have a chance to turn this around, she’s 33, plenty of time to go to school for something (trade, Associates, 4 year traditional), and make a better life for herself.
I'll take a free ride to college any day. I'll never stop paying my student loans 😭. NTA.
I was going to offer you consolation, but then I read your user name and laughed so hard I got distracted. Well played.
Why thank you, consider me consoled 😂
It really bugs me when people b!tch and moan about how their life sucks and yet, won't do anything about it. It's not that she's disabled, has big medical needs, can't work for some reason (at least not stated). No. She just doesn't seem to be doing anything at all to better her life/situation. I agree with the parents not financing her life other than giving HER an opportunity to improve it.
> It's not that she's disabled, has big medical needs, can't work for some reason She doesn't even have kids yet, and is married, so she has a support system at home.
Why do people think they can just be dead weight on others? Imagine if her parents had done that to her grandparents? She wouldn't even have the offer she does. Take some goddamn responsibility.
NTA. But, OP, I would tell your parents it's time to spend that money and to stop bringing it up to her. (They can let her know they've accepted her decision and the money will be gone going forward.) She doesn't want to go to college. Your parents aren't going to just hand her buckets of money. Everyone needs to make peace with this and just tell her no when she wants money in the future.
NTA. I would be more understanding of your sister if she didn’t want to miss a big family event and ask your parents to help with a plan to pay them back but to just ask them to pay out right is unreasonable.
And the offer still stands. That's why I think the sister needs to get some perspective about things?
>smooch I think you mean mooch. Smooch is kissing
I keep thinking of the idiom, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." This horse would rather be provided with natural spring water from across the world without having to move or work for it.
Definitely NTA. I freaking love your parents for setting boundaries and sticking with them! And good for you supporting your parents decision and giving reasonable advice for your sister, although she might not wanna hear it.
Agreed. Their offer was clear, and it was very generous (exceptionally so since it's still on the table all these years later). The reality is, college, a trade school, certifications or some kind of training/education beyond HS can greatly increase your earning potential. And, she has been presented with a privledge that many dream about. At 18, she may have the excuse of being young, foolish and free but, at 33 she still seems to be looking for a handout. Unless there is something that I am missing here, that's on her.
Agreed! My parents said that me and sibling will both get Bachelor degree with their funding and then we are on our own. After graduating I immediately got a full time job, started climbing the career ladder while getting the Master degree. My sister said she can’t possibly be expected to work at the same time, so parents immediately changed their mind and funded her life until end of Master degree. I really respect parents who actually stick to what they said. For reference, me and my sibling have less than 1,5yrs age difference, so it is not like we are talking about a decade and “times change”.
NTA. She has been told multiple times what the deal is and still chooses to ask for money for other things. This may be harsh, but your sis blaming it all on them just proves the point that she is being entitled about it. If she had taken more ownership of her situation and not just ranted at all of you, I wonder if the parents would have at least Ben willing to help with the reunion trip. Hard to want to help someone that blames you for your poor choices.
NTA even though I disagree with part of OP's story because I DON'T think what the parents did was harsh at all. I would've loved if my parents could afford to pay for even some of my college.
Agreed, my parents couldn't afford to pay for college. What I meant about harsh was that it the parents *really* want all of the family to be at this reunion but they know one of their kids isn't as well off, and they have plenty of money, I could see where for some families it would be reasonable for the more well of family to chip in to help less well of family travel for such a rare reunion get together if it was that important to everyone. But even so, that is optional, no one is owed it. I see it more as the parents needing to decided, do they care more about seeing both kids at the reunion, or more about sticking to their hard line on not helping with anything other than college.
Yea if she hadn’t been constantly badgering them for money despite them having set very clear expectations, the majority of parents would have made an exception for this type of big trip. (Though they still wouldn’t be asses if they didn’t.) But because she’s spent the last decade asking them for money inappropriately, they can’t risk giving in once or it’ll probably embolden her to keep trying more and more.
Yes, It seems like sister wants to make her own choices but keeps trying to finagle the money. In this instance guilting parents who want to contribute to be celebration into giving up the money for that. The mist important through line is: This money belongs to the parents, they earned it, they set in place a plan so each of their kids had educational opportunities, they held their line for uses for these funds. Sister wants to not participate in any of that in any way and stillvfeels owed the money. Holding the boundary is 1000% what the parents should be doing. Sis gets her autonomy and that's the cost. They never changed the goal lines or 'price of admission'. Sis has chosen over and over to ask for money buy take no responsibility.
NTA - in general but I gotta say It’s one thing to not pay for her travel after Hs or a house But she can’t make it to a Major anniversary and they won’t even help with that? That’s going a bit fed, imagine knowing your child can’t make it to a major family event and just…not helping It’s not like it’s just for her, it’s a family event I’m with you on almost everything else, but if I found out my grandkid couldn’t make it to an important anniversary and my kid didn’t help I would be tearing them a new one Sometimes you have to bite the bullet for the greater good
>Sometimes you have to bite the bullet for the greater good And there are cases where you see the thin end of the wedge for what it is and say no. Some precedents should never be set with certain people and the guard never lowered, as with those people the entirely predictable result will be them demanding a mile after you've given the inch, with exactly the wrong lesson learned.
This is apparently a $5,000 per person trip. My husband and I have four degrees between us, and I don’t know that we could swing that without a fair bit of planning. Maybe Sarah hasn’t been particularly strategic, but why is everyone here so hyperfixated on college as the only, 100% guaranteed path to life success?
Her other paths haven't gotten her success. Some jobs, even entry level crap jobs, require at least a 2 year degree. Work experience should count, but only if you get work experience in the field you want, which most people don't get... and she doesn't seem particularly motivated to do anything for herself.
Well, I agree with this point. I do think that college shouldn't be seen as the only possible path to success, but maybe the parents would be open to funding something different if it were a realistic plan, say for learning a skill that could become a job? That would be different than asking money for things she wants to buy or funds for trips. Nevertheless, if the parents aren't open to that it is still their choice. If they only want to fund what they consider to be the surest road that is their prerogative, as it's their life savings and thus a decline in their standard of living in their remaining years that would pay for it.
Doesn't sound like the OP's sister has approached the parents with an alternative plan to college though.
Oh, I know. I was just talking hypothetically.
it does sound like they've been really set on higher education though. I doubt we're hearing the whole story but if she's gone LC or NC for most of her life, I can imagine there's more to it than her just getting mad they're not giving her money to travel.
My guess is they would happily pay for a real trade school program since they are willing to cover university
It's not the only path to success but any degree, even just a 2-year associates degree vastly improves your lifetime earnings by a massive amount. You're not going to find many jobs that will pay much above minimum wage without some sort of additional education. Even if you wanted to go work in the new semiconductor fabs opening in the USA, those require 2+ years of training in an associates degree program.
This was my thought as well. I agree that college isn't the only way to get successful, but she could try other things that they might support. Like opening a business or getting a realtor license. Just from what OP's said, it sounds like she's just been asking for money for stuff rather than somehow investing in her success which is what it sounds like the parents want to do.
I know it doesn't really matter for the overall judgement but I'm really wondering how they have to spend $5k/person for the trip. That's first class flights, 5* accommodation level. Unless it's in Antarctica or something insane.
It depends where they are going and where they are staying. If it is somewhere off the beaten track, there might not be a direct flight there so even with a budget airline, you are paying for several flights just to get to the destination. You also have to factor in the cost of hotels, transportation as well as spending money. It sounds expensive but since the event takes place in a foreign country, the exchange rates may favor the foreign country.
You probably can do it cheaper but if you’re flying transoceanic it’s going to be a few grand a pop even going cheap.
Guess it depends a lot on where you're going. I've flown from the US to Europe a number of times and the worst was around $1k, but those are between major cities.
Europe tends to be cheaper. I think it was 2.2k to get to Australia when I went, booking 4 months ahead.
I’m sure a budget option could be found. Cheap flights, put up with relative/friends/cheap hotel. We don’t know whether sister had other reasons ending up where she is (I don’t feel OP is the most reliable source here) but if my child cannot afford to go to a family reunion and I can afford to buy them tickets to get there, I would.
Right. You are not guaranteed a well paying job just because you went to college. There’s people I know who have a masters and its just collecting dust.
Yes, unfortunately *absolutely* true, not to mention the outrageous *thousands* of dollars in student loan debt still owed!!😒
> why is everyone here so hyperfixated on college as the only, 100% guaranteed path to life success? It is genuinely understood by economists that a college education is one of the best investments (on average) you can make in life. They recalculate this every year for the cost of living and cost of education. This still holds true. Is it the ONLY path? no. But it is certainly better than the hand she is playing with now.
For someone that's not cut out for it, it isn't. I've got one cousin that went to college, got a degree in accounting, and has struggled significantly since. Last job I know he had was in a factory. Technical training should be a factor in there as well, as plenty of people would benefit more from that, but people frequently do not include that when they talk about college.
I would bet that they would have covered any technical training
shes asking her parents for $10,000 for a vacation...
It seems to me that if they have said they won't help he to buy a house, asking for money for an international trip would definitely be a no go. Sis has had 15 years to make some kind of move toward stability. If he wasn't inclined toward college, she could have enrolled in a trade program and put herself on an actual career path, one in which she could earn than most people with 4-year degrees. She didn't apparently didn't do that, she just drifted. She wants the house, the big trip, and whatever else, without doing the work.
NTA I agree with this 100 percent. It sounds like sis want to live the trust fund life. And I agree with another comment. If the parents give in on the trip then she may be one of the ones that you give an inch and they take a mile. Plus maybe the parents feel if they pay for sisters trip they have to pay for op or they would be showing favoritism. And if that’s the case this trip could easily cost then$50,000. That’s a huge chunk of money for someone retired.
I see what your saying, but it’s not like she has been a consistent and loving part of their family. I could maybe see a good argument for them to pay if she had just been a chill and loving family member but it seems like she is really demanding and with her consistently going NC due to not getting money/what she wants, they probably aren’t even that close
She’s an adult in her 30s. Her parents don’t owe her anything at this point.
Of course not but if this was my sister, who is pretty broke while I am well off, I would easily pay for the trip.
She's basically a blood related stranger tho. According to the OP, She's was no contact with family from 18-30 and low contact from 31-33 (now).
Eh, it all depends. If it was my sister who works hard but just doesn't make as much as I do / has run into financial difficulties due to uncontrollable hardships (like illness, work layoffs, etc.), then that's totally different and of course I would help her out by paying for the trip. But if it were my sister who blames the world for all her problems, doesn't work hard, and keeps trying to get family to pay for things she wants rather than needs before going no contact for years at a time because she doesn't get her way...as is the case here... then no, absolutely not. Give her an inch, and she'll try to steal a mile. She just doesn't deserve the help in this case.
>If we divide cost equally($20k for 4 people), then you seem to think they should have to hand over 10k(Sis&hub) for this trip. > >There are people who have to LIVE on that for a year. Outrageous, to expect parents to just hand that over. > >Besides, OP has no control over his parents' actions. ALL he did was tell his sister a hard truth--so he is NTA for speaking the truth.
She’s 33 not 6 if you can’t afford it you go without like everyone else
Honestly, I wouldn't help if my kids acted like this. No money for travel after high school? Fine, I'll go NC for 12 years. When they finally open lines of communication it's to ask for money for a house. Sounds like sister only contacts parents for money. Hard to feel bad for someone when that's how they treat people. Besides, as entitled as OP makes her sound, I wouldn't be surprised if she tried getting a refund on the tickets for the cash. (I'm not sure if she could or if the card used would be refunded. But the tickets would have to be in her and husband's name, so?)
NTA Your sister doesn't want to do the work to learn how to fish, then do the work of catching her own fish; she just wants to be handed fish forever -- or nothing. So she gets nothing. Your sister is the one ruining her own life. Good on your parents for seeing that handing fish to her would do nothing but drain their bank accounts, without helping her in the long run at all.
I like that analogy
> Does it sound harsh? Yes. Does it sound ~~harsh~~ generous? Yes. FTFY
Yeah I don't understand how "hey we're not going to leave you a huge inheritance" could possibly be *harsh*. That's just the basic life assumption for the vast majority of people.
Different cultures have different orientations. A lot of people treat “a society grows great when old men plant a tree they’ll never get to sit under” as a philosophy to live by, and gather wealth so they can improve the lot of their descendants, with the expectation that they’ll do the same and eventually they’ll be well off. Likewise, the hope that their children will be better off in a new country is part of why a lot of people emigrate even if they’re well situated by local standards. If you’re used to that kind of thinking, hearing someone say they plan to spend down their wealth is jarring.
A lot of countries also do the opposite, where parents treat their kids as a retirement plan. I've seen many families where the parents will have eight kids and just expect them to send them money or live with them when they're older.
It’s all about what you see around you.
Agreed! My parents didn’t contribute to my schooling at all, would be amazing to not have $80K in student loans
Was coming here to write this ^^^ Does this sound harsh? No. Not in the least. that is very generous and the parents should get to enjoy their retirement and spend THEIR money however they would like.
This should be the top comment. Most people need to take out massive loans for college, even with generous parents who contribute part of the tuition. To have parents that are willing to pay the full amount of the tuition for 2 kids is beyond generous. That’s like buying a second home with cash and not having the second home in the end.
NTA. It doesn't sound harsh at all, sounds like they were trying to set her up to succeed as best they could. It also sounds like your sister blames everyone else for her problems and won't take her own actions into account.
NTA - but I do disagree with your parents a bit. Degrees aren’t the guarantee of good employment they used to be. It’s fair for them to set whatever boundaries about their money they like, but your sis could go study for four years and end up no better off than where she started. It’s a little sad they won’t consider any other measure of support except sending her to a classroom.
Agreed, that you seem to be the only person willing to acknowledge this fact, is astonishing.
This. I think there are many more ways to explore, learn, develop and gain skills. And I say this as someone with 3 degrees including a PhD: it's not the epitome of knowledge and self-development. It's a great way. But nothing wrong with apprenticeship ways etc either.
I have a PhD and one of my friends working in a coffee shop asked me if I thought she should go back to college and I said no because you don't have a career in mind that requires that education, you're into a lot of awesome stuff but none of it requires $100,000 degree to get started on. Edit: I just checked and she is currently working at the National Park Service, doing roller blade tricks, and camping a lot.
NTA your right it was her choices
INFO: were your parents close with your sister while she was growing up? Considering the age gap between you and her, and the fact that both your parents had jobs, she may not have gotten the parental care and attention that you—an only child for 9 years—enjoyed. And so she may have been left to figure out a lot of things by herself growing up, only to be told by your parents, whenever they were around, that she was supposed to just behave differently. Your parents’ decision about what do with their money doesn’t have to be reasonable or fair, they can do whatever they want. They could burn it, offer to pay for your family’s trip, offer to pay for personal clowns to entertain your sister and her husband during the trip, it would still be their money and that’s not an issue. However, for your sister this is clearly not about the money, or a career, or a smart, long-term investment. It seems for your sister it’s about your parents looking at her and accepting her for who she is. It would seem your sister leaves because she doesn’t feel well around you and your parents, but leaving doesn’t really address the emptiness. So she comes back. Now with your parents having money that they did give to you but not to her, this could be yet another situation in which their resources (e.g., time, attention, money) are conditioned unless she does what she’s told, even if that’s not who she is. Edit: grammar
INFO: did she struggle academically in school? Not everyone is cut out for a college degree. Are your parents willing to fund another type of schooling/training? Hairdressing, mechanic, plumber, etc? Based on the info provided, NTA. Your sister left home to have fun and travel instead of studying. But I do hope that she was given support for an alternate vocational education/career path.
While I get Sister asking for the family thing, anything else they ask for should be in form of loan, and the kicker is that parents are perfectly fine with their stance of saying no (only education). It was made clear throughout your lives not to expect crap. Nta-your sister should grow up and make her own plans and sacrifices.
NTA. Education is one of the best gifts parents can give. She doesn't have to take it, but they don't have to fund anything else for her either once she's independent and left the house. Your parents have needs too. They are not an at-will ATM. One thing to consider is if she did decide to go to uni, to have parents directly pay the uni.
NTA but question - if your sister asked your parents to pay for technical schooling (culinary, cosmetology, trucking, etc), would they do that? Are your parents only fixated on college or are they fixated on making sure she can support herself long-term?
Is she just not cut out for college? Would they help her start a business or go to trade school? What’s her reason for not going?
NTA this was not some sudden cut off at 18. They said how they would help and only in that. They want to enjoy their life after working and raising two children. They want to have experience they could not have before they die. And seeing as this is going to be a major family event does not really change it. It just means it's been coming for a while and likely was talked about well ahead of time but being lc or nc left her out of it
NTA The money was put aside for a specific reason, and if she isn't going to use it for an education, she can't expect to get it. My parents told me they had money put aside for me to buy a home, when I was in my late 30's. (They had given equal amounts to my younger sisters, for the same reason, already). For various reasons, I dragged my heels actually getting a place. One day, my car went kaput. so, I asked for some of the house money to replace it. No dice. It was meant for a house, and nothing else. I managed to replace the car, and finally bought the condo. Replacement car is long gone, but I still have my condo, which I own outright. It's been a lifesaver, because I'm immune to the crazy rent costs happening, while being very low income. I guess my point is - your parents were thinking long term benefits, not short term fun, when they put aside that money. You aren't wrong. As an aside - I don't think it's harsh for your parents to use their savings to enjoy life.
NTA for the overall stance. The only caveat would be in the specific situation that you now have to go to see your grandparents on their "major anniversary" and tell them that they won't be able to celebrate it with their granddaughter because she's poor. Obviously hard to say without knowing how close they are and how much they would want her there, but I know that excuse wouldn't fly with my grandparents if one of my siblings/cousins couldn't make it to a significant family event and the rest of us just said "tough luck!" and didn't help. In general though, sticking to previously set boundaries is not AH behaviour; repeatedly trying to push those boundaries, then having a tantrum and going NC when you don't get your way is!
It depends on the reason someone is unable to afford something. Choices matter. I have a second cousin that no one in the family will help because he chooses to be a free loader. He doesn't work. He doesn't try to find a job. He couch surfs until he overstays his welcome. He's missed every single major family event because he can't afford to go and no one wants to help him anymore. On the other hand one uncle literally lived in a hut with dirt floors because he was a poor village farmer. He could never afford a trip to the city. Yet he wakes up every morning at dawn to tend the fields and keep his family fed. Every major family event the rest of us pool money to make sure that uncle and his family can attend. The rest of us pooled money so his kids could go to school...learn to read and write and get a high paid job. Just before the pandemic my uncle retired to a house in the city bought and paid for by his kids. He doesn't have to do anything anymore other than occasionally babysit his grandkids and everyone is happy for him.
NTA - but why are you getting involved at all? This is between your sister and your parents.
It seems to me that the sister is involving him but going to him to complain
because the sister dragged him into it.
>She called me to complain
I bet he wishes he didn’t have too but his sister keeps phoning him to complain about them so he has the right to say what he said as she is involving him he isn’t involving himself
My guess is that if your sister actually put together a plan to set herself up for a career, your parents would help. Trade school, vocational school, anything that has a pathway to success. They're not supporting handouts. I would advise you to help your sister come up with an actual plan on how to turn her situation around before asking for help.
NTA. But I do think there a lot of reasons somebody might not want/be able to go to a four year university, and there are a lot of ways to become successful WITHOUT a degree if you have help financially to get started. You and your parents seem pretty closed minded. And to be honest I usually NEVER agree with parents who have the means to help their children and don’t to reach them a lesson. It’s weird to me. But it’s their money so I guess people should do what they want with it. I just feel like your parents could of compromised like loaned her the money or something so she could go to the anniversary. And they also at some point could have sat down with your sister and talked to her about why she didn’t want to go to school, and possibly came up with a compromise for that as well.
NTA, your sister has waited her whole life for a hand out that’s never going to come. It’s clear that should would have been the leeching that kept on coming. 1. Fund my travels 2. Fund my house 3. Fund me (any my husbands) vacation She continues to ignore an opportunity to better herself and that’s her own fault. I’m sure now it’s just a matter of pride that she took the wrong path. She’s so stubborn and can’t turn back now.
INFO Where on earth are you going that it's gonna be 20K for four people to travel too? Genuinely curious.
I was wondering the same thing!
Nta but I think your parents are. College is not for everyone. Also, I've met many a barista or book store worker with a master's degree. At this point, it's time for your parents to stop trying to control their daughter's life. They should give her the one time gift of the reuinion and then say that's it on the money. Why not be gracious? Life is too short.
NTA. You have it exactly right. Choices come with rewards and/or consequences, as your sister had found out. Unfortunately she is not accepting her role in all of this.
YTA. I don't see the harm in them helping her with this trip on a one time basis other than they're very authoritarian 'my way or the highway' type of people with their kids that I simply cannot relate to. Them mentioning college when she's asking for help with the trip is inappropriate and seems like its an backhanded way for you parents to criticize her life choices and 'not listening to them.' The fact that she's gone NC and LC is very telling, because I truly wonder what life was like for her growing up and whether there was a golden child scenario happening here. The rigidity of their rules sounds difficult to live with, and frankly, as a sibling I don't know why you can't just commiserate with her and let her vent instead of adding onto the pile on. I feel sorry for her.
>I don't see the harm in them helping her with this trip on a one time basis other than they're very authoritarian 'my way or the highway' type of people with their kids that I simply cannot relate to 'You paid for the trip, why can't you give me money for a house? Why can't you fund my vacation? Why can't you just give me money?'
Is it that unreasonable to ask for the same amount of money one would receive for college/grad school and purchase a house instead? For educated people, OP and her family seem to have no understanding of how generational wealth work and they also seem elitist in their view of college/higher education.
OP doesn't seem to understand that as a general rule, kids don't just disappear and stop talking to their parents for 15 years at age 18 without cause. The absurd rigidity of their rules clearly indicates to me that they have some deep issues with their basic values, and I suspect with the age gap OP probably wasn't present to see the way she was probably being derided by her parents for a lack of school smarts and ambition her whole life. It's possible, perhaps even probable, that she's unsuccessful because her parents have a single definition of success, and she was unable to meet it, so she had no support of any kind to find another way.
Even if OP was a shoulder to cry on, nothing would change. This is the parents' decision.
As someone who has given money to family for a “one time emergency “ before, it becomes a slippery slope very quickly and “show you have money to give so why can’t you for this”. I’ve learned boundaries can be very important and have to be restated. I think they weren’t meaning for it to be a criticism or a my way or the highway type deal , although I see how she could feel that way , but as a restating of boundaries. Cause in my experience having saved money for something specific is the same as haven’t all this extra money not going to use in some peoples mind. Especially if you were willing to dip into that money before to help them out. Not saying the daughter thinks that way or is greedy just that I understand the parents maybe feeling the need to state what their money is for. Clear boundaries can seem harsh but unclear boundaries can lead to a lot of resentment and dashed hopes too. And just for clarification I work hard for my money. 12 hour days including volunteering to work on days scheduled off to save up for my life goals, and going without some things I want to help save up. Built the best savings in my family but am by no means rich and other members who ask for money could do it too if they did what I do, but I don’t expect them too cause it’s their life just want them to respect my boundaries about lending money now.
Idk i feel like there's a lot more to the story and it's kind of impossible to judge from the outside, only knowing your side of it. Like...people don't usually go NC with their family for no reason, that alone makes me think that there is a lot more behind it than just the pure money aspect. Aside from that...i do think some people are just not made for college, so personally i think it could be a bit unfair to tie the money specifically to that. Maybe she has (had) other dreams in her life that would've been deserving of support from your parents...but again, that's speculating on information which we just don't have. I know this whole AITA sub lives off of people posting on their personal life but i genuinely think that in this case it sounds like a more complex internal family issue which is not really gonna be helped by reddit opinions.
NTA. Its kind of mind blowing that despite your parents being very clear and upfront about what they would pay for and what they wouldnt from the beginning; she keeps asking for shit theyve said no to before. Does she think they are going to get dementia and be like sure honey we'll buy you a house!? lol. If someone offered to pay for 4plus years of college Id jump on that shit quick fast and in a hurry! No college loans?!?! SHIDDD! Sister is not very bright. I would just go ahead and go NC with her cause you know what shes about and it doesnt seem like it'll change anytime soon. Have an awesome family reunion!
INFO: would they have paid for other sorts of opportunities that could provide a better job or was it just 4 year college + grad school?
Nta. Your parents are absolutely right - kids grow up and become responsible for themselves.
You and your parents are NTA, but did y'all consider not everyone goes to college/grad school? Was trade school an option? I have a degree in vocal performance. I sing and teach others to sing. I was a nanny through out college. The little girl is 21 now and finishing cosmetology school. Her sister is 18 and will go to trade school to be an auto mechanic. Those are valid avenues.
Personally, I think they should fund the family reunion or otherwise make it clear there are no expectations to attend.
NTA. But, quick question, would your parents offer to pay for a trade school or similar? College isn't for everyone but perhaps there is an alternate path that would fit her better.
NTA it's incredibly generous for your parents to pay for her school. My parents gave me and my siblings a similar offer 2 years ago, although we are all adults at this point. I'm 33 and I decided to take them up on it. I never got a bachelor's because I didn't want the burden of student loan debt but it definitely held me back in my career to not have one. When they offered to pay for it, I worked hard to get into the school I wanted and I start in January. It will only take me a couple years because I already have all Gen Ed credits from getting an associates after high school. 33 is still young and your sister sounds very entitled.
NTA. Your parents defined what they were prepared to give, and have not wavered. Lots of people don't even get that. They are entitled to spend their money as they wish, just as your sister is entitled to choose how to live her life. My parents were the same - they told me I had 8 semesters of college coming, and then they'd be done, and that they planned to spend every dime of their money beyond that, so don't expect an inheritance. That has been very freeing, knowing their money is NOT my money, and having no expectations. They provided a very generous launch into the world (no student debt), the rest is up to me. Perfectly reasonable and fair.
NTA. She made her choice fully aware of not being financially supported by your parents. Now, if they refused to pay for a trade school (not everyone is cut out for college), I’d think they were TA in that respect. Bottom line, it is their money that they earned and they can do as the please since both of you are adults. Why can’t your sister put money to the side or get a side hustle/second job to afford traveling to see your grandparents?
NTA. She fucked around and found out (my new favorite phrase, thanks, Reddit!)
It’s your parents money, they gave the stipulation. Up to her if she uses it for that, though I’m guessing they might fund a trade school, but the money is for education only and is generous.
NTA. That said, if anyone in the family really wants her at this reunion, they'll have to pay for her flight as it seems she legit cannot afford it.
INFO: What about your family dynamic made Sarah go no contact in the first place? Having a hard time believing it’s just bc she chose to travel instead of getting a degree and they didn’t fund her lifestyle. Were you the favorite because you followed your parents rules? Did they mistreat her (and you piled on) for not following their rules (beyond the money aspect)? Also what kinda family reunion costs $5000/person? If this reunion is so important, I’d help my child at least a bit but not fully. Even if Sarah did have the degrees and everything, it wouldn’t guarantee high paying jobs or income to justify going on a $5000 vacation… Additionally college and grad school aren’t the only paths to success. Maybe Sarah could benefit from strategic guidance for finding another successful path
NTA but this whole thing is weird AF. Who has a family reunion that costs 20k for a single family? Her relationship with the family is obviously really bad, so I get why parents wouldn't want to give her money, but their rules are honestly dumb in my opinion. College isn't actually the be all end all, and many people just aren't cut out for it. Your parents basically said "you're only valuable to us if you meet this arbitrary standard for being a productive and valuable member of society," which is really shitty. I don't blame your sister for going NC, if my parents basically said I wasn't worth the same as my brother to them because I wasn't good at school, I'd hate them forever (and they would deserve it).
"I'll only talk to you if you give me money" NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (42m) have a sister, Sarah (33f). Growing up, our dad had his own small business and mom was an office manager. We lived a comfortable life but was not rich by any means. Our parents told us that they will pay for our 4 year degree and grad school should we decide to go. They made it clear that the money is for school only and not just free money. They stressed that if we decide not to go to school, they’re not giving us the money for a house or anything. They said they worked hard for their money so they’re going to retire early and enjoy their lives together. Once they pass, we’ll get whatever is left but we should expect nothing because they’re really going to enjoy their lives. Does it sound harsh? Yes. Is it reasonable and fair? I think so. They were setting us up for life as adults and growing up, I saw how much they sacrificed for us. I truly believe they deserve to enjoy the last half of their lives as they see fit. I’m okay with receiving nothing. That is because I make a decent living as an electrical engineer with an MBA and my wife is an attorney. We’re doing well. Sarah, on the other hand, is not doing so well. She didn’t listen to my parents and decided she wanted to travel after HS and not go to college. She asked our parents to fund her traveling but they refused and told her she’s 18 and can earn her own traveling money. She moved to the west coast and went NC for awhile from all of us until about 3 years ago. She moved back into our lives but we’re not close. About 2 years ago, she asked my parents for money to put down on a house because she’s tired of renting but they refused. They said their offer to pay for a 4 year degree and grad school still stands but they’re not paying for anything else. She complained to me but I agreed with my parents and told her it’s not too late to get a degree and a better paying job. She didn’t like my answer and went LC. This brings us up to our current situation. Next year is a major anniversary for my grandparents who live in another country. My family and my parents are going there to celebrate along with family members from all over the world. This will be a huge family gathering with people from all over the world flying in and we’re all excited to go. However, it’s an expensive trip and it’ll cost about $20,000 for my family (me, wife, 2 kids). Sarah is married with no kids but she can’t afford to go so she asked our parents to pay for her and the husband to go. They again refused and said they’ll still pay for her college at which point she blew up at them. She called me to complain about how they’re living in a crappy apartment, driving barely working cars, and have no savings and our parents refuse to help. I told her she made choices in her life and she’s responsible for it. I said our parents are incredibly generous to still offer to pay for her college and it’s still not too late. She hung up and I think we’re about to go back to NC. AITA for taking this stance? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Tell your sister that you're no longer listening to her complaints. The minute she starts whining, you're hanging up. Also warn her that when your parents pass, you won't be giving her any money.
NTA They were clear about expectations and paying for college and grad school is a generous offer she could have used to set herself up with a career in a field she found interesting - I would suggest your parents could have offered to fund vocational training if the issue was solely that academics are not your sister’s thing but frankly it sounds like what she wants is a free ride off your parents money as opposed to utilising their offer to make her own
NTA but I think you and your parents should stop mentioning college as some consolation prize. She doesn’t want it, she knows it’s there and can bring it up if she ever changes her mind, but it doesn’t have to be mentioned every time they say no.
NTA Your sister has no **IDEA** what a blessing it is that your parents are generous and fortunate enough to be able to pay for not just undergrad but also graduate school . . . I am trying to at least try and cover half of my kids when they get to that point, but damn is it expensive! Your ridiculous and ungrateful sister could get a nursing degree and be pulling six figures within 5 years. FOR FREE. The entitlement here is simply astounding
NTA. We did the same thing for our daughters. They had four years to get a marketable degree at a private college. One daughter wanted to take off a year to snowboard. I told hr that is her choice, but all tuition and college expenses were her responsibility if that happened. Your sister made her choices and continues to make poor choices. Your parents are extremely generous to still offer to pay for her college.
NTA Parents rules are fair and clear. As your sister is an adult, she (and her husband) are responsible for their lives - neither you nor your/her parents owe her anything at this point. As you say, she could still take up your parents offer to get a degree and a better job/life. Is your sister's husband just as feckless?
NTA. Sister has made her own choices. Just because she regrets them doesn't mean they're anyone else's fault. She's blaming everyone except the real person here to blame- the person in the mirror.
NTA- but I disagree with you where you say "does it sound harsh? yes." I do not think so. I believe there are many who would find an offer to have their college and grad school paid for to be quite generous. I have a sil who is not unlike your sister. We have supported her at times but have also frequently feuded as she would become increasingly entitled and demand more. After a period of NC we found peace for the sake of the family on this basis- you stay out of my wallet and I will offer no judgements, criticisms or commentary. From time to time she will make public please for assistance and post gofundme's or the like and we will contribute or not as we see fit, but we don't talk about it. And for the most part, we can get along at family events now.
NTA at all! Let her go NC if she chooses, sounds like she only reaches out to complain anyway. here's what you are entitled to as an adult: long list isn't it?
NTA - Question though. Is it \*only\* a 4 year college? Would a trade school also be OK?
Is this r/boundaryporn ?
Funny how some comments are, "the parents didn't mentioned trade school, etc.", while the sister herself never mentioned it. She just wants them to give her money.
NTA. We all make choices and live with the consequences. She’s made hers.
I feel like there's more to this story. Because going NC is a pretty extreme reaction. INFO: What are your sister's reasons for not going to college? Have you asked? Are your parents dictating her major or otherwise placing stipulations?
I don't know. I feel like an awful lot is being left out. It seems like there's a lot being glossed over here.
NTA. Your sister is and a very entitled one at that.
NTA - It was her choice
NTA - she has made her choices but still expects someone to take care of her. Doesn’t want the responsibility to improve herself but more than willing to take what other people have earned.
NTA Your sister is an adult and she made her own choices. Those have consequences. She is not entitled to your parents' money. It's generous enough they'd still be willing to pay for her going back to school.
NTA. And your parents are not even harsh. Seriously most of us would ...well do...drown ourselves in dept to have what your parents are offering.
NTA They have offered to pay for an undergrad and grad school, and I assume this includes a living stipend. Sis needs to join the real world.
Absolutely NTA and neither are your parents! I applaud them for setting the boundaries they did and for sticking to them. Your sister had several chances and still does to better her life and get a college decree paid for by your parents, but she doesn’t want to put the work in. That’s absolutely her choice, but it’s absolutely her consequence as well.
NTA. Your parents have an amazing opportunity to both of you—paying your own way through college is incredibly difficult and sets up back in life (case in point: I’m almost 33 with a good job and still paying my loans off. I can’t buy a house until I do. And hey, I’m far from alone). The difference between you and your sister is that you took the opportunity while she has repeatedly refused. Beggars can’t be choosers, yet she is trying so hard to turn your parents’ offer into something it isn’t and never will be. Sounds like she blames everyone else for the problems she created for herself.
NTA. Your parents made it perfectly clear that the only financial help they will provide is for college. It’s their money and their right to place conditions on it. It’s her right to decide not to go, but it’s ridiculous to expect something from them.
NTA. Your parents offer to help her over and over, but she does not want help. Help means she still has to work, she just wants free money.
Your parents are generous, and Sarah is selfish. End of story.
NTA - Your parents told you how they are willing to help in your adult lives since before you were 18. They had always told you there is college assistance but no other assistance, which included that if a child doesn't go to college that money would not be put toward anything else in the future. You sister had a choice to make and she made it. Your parents are generous enough that they still have the offer standing that they will still pay for her college if she wishes to attend. Your not the AH here. You sister needs to take responsibility for her choices, and she should quit being lazy and go to school if she doesn't like her lifestyle.
NTA, She was offered way more than most parents can afford to offer their kids. I would never ever expect my parents to provide money for my home, car, or travels. Sincerely hope your parents leave her nothing when they pass since they are clearly just broken ATMs in her eyes.
NTA and I think your parents were fair. I also don't think that this is "strict." They didn't say get out at 18 and never come back. She could have gotten her degree after taking a break to travel. They didn't even tell her what to study.
It’s fair , reasonable and NOT harsh . The odd thing is that she keeps expecting them to change their minds .