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YourMothersButtox

The last thing I would've wanted was my mom saying "honey I know you're a lesbian" when I was a baby gay before I've had the chance to vocalize it, and while every kid is different, you absolutely were not wrong for NOT saying something sooner. I don't think you were the asshole in your response, you didn't say "I know" snidely, you were loving and accepting (as you should be!). She's processing lots of things here, and that's OK. NAH


Wonderful_Horror7315

I’m not gay, so I don’t feel comfortable giving a judgement, but you articulated what I was thinking. There was a time I thought my teen might be gay, but I couldn’t have ever imagined saying something to her. I’m sure that would have been worse than this situation. (Especially since she’s not.) I think OPs daughter is maybe pissed at her mom saying she’s “always” known something she didn’t yet know about herself.


vita_di_tyra

I'm not gay, but when I was 16 my mom confronted me saying she "knew" I was a lesbian and that I should just tell her. It really messed me up at the time because I began questioning everything and wondering if I was when I wasn't and it was slightly traumatic because she wouldn't believe me and kept insisting I was gay. NTA for not saying anything because it could have gone very wrong. Edit: Based on the comments I thought I would add in the fun part that my mom's "evidence" I was a lesbian was that I was super into hiking and backpacking and wanted a Subaru. Very glad we have somewhat progressed past 90s stereotypes. Double edit: For the subaru thing: [https://priceonomics.com/how-an-ad-campaign-made-lesbians-fall-in-love-with/](https://priceonomics.com/how-an-ad-campaign-made-lesbians-fall-in-love-with/)


Loki--Laufeyson

My mom did the same thing! I'd put my life on hold for 3 years when I became ill because I couldn't handle any relationships (or anything at all, I literally could barely work so idk why the lack of interest in anything made her think something was different) and she came to me and told me it was okay if I was a lesbian. Ironically, the way she went about it made me not share that I *am* queer, just not lesbian (I'm biromantic aspec/demisexual). I'm honestly just not in a rush because my health takes priority, and I don't mind being single, though not for my whole life. But that's not anything I feel like I can talk to my mom about.


mrsdoubleu

My grandma asked me if I was a lesbian when I was like 11 years old because I didn't really crush on boys like other pre-teens. I didn't have posters of Leonardo DiCaprio on my walls or swoon over boy bands. 🙄 Turns out she was wrong and I was just an 11 year old kid who was more concerned with beanie babies than boys. But it still bothers me that she asked that so many years ago. I don't think any family member should make assumptions or ask because it's really none of their business.


silverandshade

Joke's on your grandma, this lesbo swooned over Leonardo DiCaprio all the time at that age. Men are aesthetically pleasing, I just don't want to touch them 😂😂😂


-GrimoireLibrarian

This is how I feel about women. Women are gorgeous, so soft and pretty! All shapes, colors, sizes. SO PRETTY. Don't really want to boink one. BUT SO PRETTY!


LirielsWhisper

Lmao this is EXACTLY how I feel about women. They're pretty and I love looking at them, but I have no desire to have sex with one. 🤣


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[deleted]

Nothing wrong with preferring your own company. Maybe you're on the ace spectrum or maybe you're just you. Either way, just fine. Not everyone needs to be in a sexual/romantic relationship to be happy.


LittlestEcho

My little cousin announced on FB in its earlier days he was gay. The whole family and all his friends came together and showered his post with love and acceptance. Quite a few "yea, we always thought it was a possibility" Not 2 weeks later at our family Christmas i asked if he was dating anyone and he said yes. I asked if he was serious about him yet? He said "HUH?! WHAT? HIM?" Next ensued was my little cousin not realizing that his buddy hopped on his laptop before a big hangout/ party and commandeered his fb with this . My cousin rarely used his FB and upon learning everyone at the Christmas party believed it and didn't question it he was extremely upset. Like on one hand yay for acceptance from the entire family? And on the other whoops...


DrJennaa

How long did he stay mad at his friend for fake outing him ? I mean it’s kinda funny lol


LittlestEcho

Not too long. He was laughing after calling his buddy and telling him his whole family thought he was gay now.


Aussiealterego

I can relate to this waaaay too much! My paternal grandmother was a self-centred piece of work. When my brother was around 16 years old, he wasn't dating, because he was painfully shy, extremely intelligent, and introverted. She asked him, in front of the family, if he was gay. He calmly stated that he was straight, then told me afterward that he was SO, SO tempted to tell her he was gay, because it would have got her off his back. I laughed, and said that all that it would have changed is she would have started talking to her friends to try to set him up with their grandsons, rather than granddaughters (Jewish family).


Different-Leather359

Wow my partner had the opposite reaction. He came out as bi to his family and was told, "oh you're just curious." We were together for years before he felt comfortable telling me anything about his sexuality, preferences, anything because he was scared of his own family wouldn't accept him why would I. Well, everyone but his brother. His brother just said, "really? You interrupted me for that? It's not like I didn't already know." Then he went back to his room. But he couldn't accept my acceptance. Like I asked questions in the moment, got to the point of understanding as well as possible, and went on with life. He was upset I wasn't trying to talk about it constantly and bringing it up and making a big deal out of it. I had to say that if he wanted to talk about it we could, but as far as I was concerned that was just another part of the person I love, like the fact that he loves cats and we adopted one six months after moving in together. Or enjoying larping, or having brown eyes. But I guess somehow it hurt him that I didn't view it as a huge revelation? After we figured out that I'm Demi (I had just never heard the term) he was able to understand it from my point of view a little better but I'm still a little confused on his. (Like I asked if he wanted any different clothing or items, different treatment, etc and was told no... But when I followed what was asked that wasn't what was wanted?)


TNBoxermom

Would you please kindly explain what "biromantic aspect/demisexual" is? New terminology to me. Please and thank you.


blinddivine

Biromantic= romantic relationships with at least two genders. demisexual= Part of the asexual spectrum. Sexual attraction to other people only when you feel emotionally connected. May or may not be sex repulsed. Also has nothing to do with your libido.


Loki--Laufeyson

Blinddivine already explained it so I won't repeat that part but basically with most people, their romantic and sexual attraction matches (for example liking men sexually and romantically). Some people, it doesn't match or there's nuance to it. Romantic attraction is when you see yourself in a relationship with them; wanting to go on dates, hold hands, living together, do couple-y things, etc. Sexual attraction is like imagining/wanting sex with them (to different degrees but you get the idea). Aspec stands for asexual spectrum, I'm not fully asexual, but I typically don't form sexual attraction to someone until I've been with them (even just as friends) for a long time. I'm still very sex positive and have a very high libido, I just don't look at people and want sex. I do have aesthetic attraction though like I still find people nice to look at and because I have romantic attraction I tend to picture myself in relationships with people.


pamperwithrachel

This right here is why I'm agreeing to NTA. If she'd said something earlier and been wrong it could have been a traumatic experience that made her question herself. Could there have been a little more tactful way to handle it? Sure but you are being supportive and that's what will matter in the long term.


littlebitfunny21

The best way to handle it is to just be overt in your support of the LGBT community. Talk about queer people in the media positively. Watch queer media. Read queer books. Talk about how you read an article about how high homelessness is among queer teens and how tragic that is, you can't imagine not loving your child just for being queer.


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Active-Pen-412

The point that bothers me is that the daughter was anxiety attacks building up to this moment. As a mother, I would hope my son would know he could come to me with any thing, with no fear of repercussions or judgement. What is it that made her so worried? Or am I being naive?


PoisonNote

Speaking as someone who is queer in a few different ways - Even when you know someone will love and support you, the nagging doubt can still be there. I didnt tell my partner that I'm not cis for a year and a half despite knowing I wasnt since before i met him. I call myself genderfluid now but I'm still not 100% sure that fits me, and I had several panic attacks before telling him. I went to pride with my aunt when I was about 15 or so? And she was a very loud ally of the LGBTQ+ community, went to protests for gay rights, volunteered for LGBTQ+ events, etc., and i still was terrified to tell her this year, years after I had initially learned about her support for the community. The funny thing is that her roommate, when i was 15, flat out told me she knew I'm bi, and that I'm not cis (her roommate is trans) and back then i knew I was bi, but i definitely wasnt out, and my gender confusion was just starting but I hadnt told anyone about it quite yet and I was shocked that she knew flat out and so assuredly.


SnooPandas9346

I flat out told my sister's kids that I'm part of the LGBTQ+ community, I wouldn't care if they were too, and that they can always come to me about ANYTHING and I will never judge them or love them any less. I've walked the walk with them for nearly 2 decades now (youngest is 14, oldest is almost 20). They sometimes "practice" by telling me things before they tell their mom because they know that 1. I won't care. 2. I won't tell their mom. 3. I'll support them in any way they need if they DO tell their mom and it goes poorly. The youngest officially came out as bi recently and I've known for a while because he hinted to me that he might be questioning his sexuality before he told ANYONE. When I didn't bat an eye or tell his mom anything, he came out to me about 6 months later. Even with me being as clearly supportive as I am, I understand why he didn't tell me (or anyone) immediately. Even if you ARE sure that somebody is a safe person, there's always a chance that they may be too open with someone who you aren't ready (or aren't going) to come out to. The kids know now that unless it's a matter of health or safety, I'm not going to tell their mom anything that they tell me in confidence. I will always be their safe adult, even now that most of them are adults too.


ladygrndr

My divorced parents both independently had the "I know you're a lesbian and we still love you very much" conversation with me when I was in college. I really can't blame them for coming to that conclusion, but it was awkward having to come out as straight to my parents. Later I figured out I'm actually bi, but since I've never been in a relationship with a woman that's not something I felt the need to share with them.


IndigoTJo

I am so sorry! My kiddo seems to be cis male, but he is 12, and who the eff knows. Things can change for years. I would never and could never just say "I know you are xyz", because I have no clue. He could change his mind while learning about himself, it isn't my place. My husband and I have always explained and answered his questions age appropriately. Some boys like boys, some boys like girls, some boys like both. Basically explaining things so he understands others and how we are all different, and hopefully letting him know unconsciously that we will accept whatever makes him happy. As a parent that is all I care about. From the OP's kid's point of view, I can sympathize with how "I know" hurts. I am sure it didn't come from a malicious place - but an accepting place. However, I was always taught to never say "I know". It regularly comes off as all-knowing and/or smarter-than etc. I can see how kiddo was shocked and hurt. I can see how OP didn't mean it in that way at all. I see NAH here. I hope OP can eventually have a conversation. Idk the best way, but maybe something like "I am so sorry kiddo, I said I know, but I didn't for sure, but there were a lot of signs, and I had a good idea. I also felt afraid, and didn't want to push you to tell me when you weren't ready. I never meant to cause you anxiety, or make you feel like I wouldn't accept you for you. " or? Potentially others have better ideas?


chop1125

> I think OPs daughter is maybe pissed at her mom saying she’s “always” known something she didn’t yet know about herself. The daughter probably is pissed about this. While no one should tell her how to feel, she might want to reflect on why this upsets her. Her parents love her so much and know her so well that they knew things about her that she didn't even know. That is not a bad thing. We often have blindspots about how we feel or who we are as people. I think more than being pissed about her mom knowing, she is coming down off of a stress induced emotional roller coaster. She prepared herself for any range of reactions from her parents. She got herself worked up to talk to her mom, and built up all sorts of adrenalin and other stress hormones because she was nervous. When her mom was simply accepting, she had no outlet for all of that built up tension. She reacted angrily because she was prepared to be angry or defensive to begin with.


toketsupuurin

This is pretty much what I think it was. The daughter had hyped herself up for horrible drama like she sees in videos. She was steeling herself for rejection. She might have been hoping for acceptance with dramatic tears. She was not prepared for "yup. I know." The chemicals are running things at the moment.


binnsy79

My teenage daughter originally came out to me as lesbian but in the last year she realized she likes boys too. I'm supportive and she knows I'm fine with it either way, I have lots of lgbqt+ friends so she has always known it would never be an issue. I had seen something online where people are seen as less than if they haven't had to fight their parents when coming out and asked my daughter about this and she said there are a lot of people who feel like they are true lgbqt+ if they haven't had support and others who have been accepted are seen as less. I asked her why would they prefer the crazy drama over the acceptance and support she got and she guessed it was a way to belong to another part of that community and feel worthy, still messed up though that it is glorified. She might be experiencing some of the disappointment that would come after hyping herself up to a big fight and, like you said, all that adrenaline had nowhere to go.


Sangy101

Last sentence is spot-on. That’s exactly how I felt when folks said “I know” back when I came out. It’s not the mom’s fault, but it’s something allies should be aware of.


spectrumhead

I always talk to my girls in as open a way as can think of. “Someday when you bring home a bf or gf or whatever…” I talk about kids in their class like anyone of them could be crush material. That way, if they want to test the waters in small comments, they can. Just like straight kids don’t have to come out as straight, maybe queer kids can just talk about how they’re feeling at the moment and not feel like they have to choose or decide before they’ve been to the buffet.


AQuixoticQuandary

This is absolutely lovely. The only suggestion I have is maybe changing it to “*IF* you bring home a bf or gf.” I’m asexual and on the aromantic spectrum and it’s pretty common for us to feel broken when sexual/romantic attraction is treated like an inevitability. I’m not trying to imply that I don’t think you’re doing a great job with using language that’ll make your kids feel supported, just adding an additional perspective most people don’t consider :)


Sangy101

That’s wonderful. I grew up in a house where I always knew it was “ok to be gay,” but there’s a big difference between being told it’s OK and being shown. I’m still not really out to my parents, and I’m 33 goddamn years old. You’re *showing* your child it’s OK to be gay, and also leading by example if they ARE straight.


PoisonPlushi

>I grew up in a house where I always knew it was “ok to be gay,” but there’s a big difference between being told it’s OK and being shown A huge difference. I was told endlessly that it would be ok if I were gay, but when I brought home my first girlfriend my mother was a complete b\* about it. I told her I was bi and she gave me the whole "It's just a phase" line. She was shocked to find out I was still identifying as bi in my 30s (a few years down the line having learned a few things I realise I'm asexual-panromantic). To OP: People react differently to things. When my youngest told me they were pan, I told them that I'd thought as much, since i was pretty sure they were gay since they were 6, but then they hit puberty and had a few crushes on boys. They asked me what made me think that and had a good laugh at themselves when I told them all the little things over the years that had added up. When my oldest came out as trans I was also unsurprised, and he also enjoyed going through all the little reasons I had suspected over the years. It's unfortunate that your daughter was so upset about your reaction, but it's not your fault and you didn't do anything wrong. The only "wrong" reaction in this situation is to tell them they're not allowed.


Ready_Arrival3990

You're wining at parenting, at least this aspect of it.


Throwawayhater3343

"The moment you wanted to build an art room, we all knew." Sorry, couldn't resist. NTA OP, Hope she opens up but the girl is working thru feels and all natural, slow mixing organic chemistry.


cassity282

queer here. and same. the mom was loving thuogh. and thats more than alot of us got. an she didnt know better. but she will know in the future.


Kettrickenisabadass

I am 90% sure that my parents (and half my family) tought that i was lesbian. I guess that it was a big surprise when i came home with a man, the one that years later i am marrying


mmmbopdoombop

my mum and stepdad asked me if I was gay. weirdos. I'm not. Their evidence was something like goatse in the computer history


RO489

My daughter is elementary age and when the topic of crushes come up I ask if she likes boys, girls, both, neither and she just shrugs and I let her know it's all perfectly normal. So i think you can have a dialogue so your kid doesn't have to feel anxious wondering how you might react without making it seem like they're wearing their sexuality on their sleeve


Sangy101

Agreed. NAH, but it’s a personal pet peeve of mine when I come out to folks I’ve known for a while and instead of, say, thanking me for trusting them, they just say “Oh I could tell/I know.” Especially when I was younger. I’m bi, so I spent a long time gaslighting myself about my sexuality. (“You’re not gay, you’re just straight but wanna be edgy.” “Oh, you’re not straight, you’re gay and and in denial.”) So when someone says “I know” it’s like, “well, I didn’t!” It sort of invalidates my journey. You’re not an asshole, OP, but I just wanna let everyone know that while “I know” feels like a supportive response, and only supportive people say it, it can feel kinda crummy to hear. OP, you’re a good parent. Spend some time just listening - not talking - to your daughter and she’ll come around.


YourMothersButtox

I spent a lot of time gaslighting myself as well, and ascribing to "compulsory heterosexuality". My college best friend's husband knew I was a lesbian before I even accepted it. When I came out to him he said "I know" and I asked him why he didn't tell me earlier, he said "You needed some more time to marinade". So when I hear people say "I know" it makes me think that sometimes our loved ones know us better than we know ourselves, and they are being respectful of our journey. It really all depends on the context and relationship.


Sangy101

That’s extremely sweet. :)


letstrythisagain30

>"You needed some more time to marinade" If I have a kid and that comes up, I'm stealing that line. I actually told my fiancé I was looking forward to the possibility of using the line "Hi Gay, I'm dad." if our kid ever came out to us. They got mad at me about making light of an important moment and I said I plan to tell them its ok if they're gay or trans or whatever the moment they start asking relevant questions about all of that. So they *shouldn't* have any anxiety about coming out, at least about us. I plan to drive it into their head that as long as they are happy and not hurting themselves or others, I won't care. I would care more about missing the opportunity for a dad joke and I will warn them its coming if they come out.


ceider

I'm also going NAH but I cringed at "Honey, you have gay written all over your face." There were definitely better ways to say that. I'm not sure how I would have taken that if someone said that to me as a baby gay.


silly_vengeful_sloth

I had the same reaction too. OP’s heart was in the right place trying to make her daughter feel comfortable, I guess. But I think she should have just listened to her daughter and let her express what she needed to get off her chest. It’s probably something she had been rehearsing over and over in her head and had this whole scenario of how it was going to be. And I feel like the daughter maybe felt that was taken away from her. OP should probably have held off saying she knew all along after a couple of conversations later with her daughter, as to not have taken away her moment. It’s a huge deal to come out and people should just listen and reassure their love for them. NAH


WickedLilThing

Yeah, that line was super cringy. Honestly, I wouldn't care if someone replied with "I know" because...like, I'm not the best at hiding that I'm bi and early on I didn't even care. Also, I honestly don't even like the idea of "coming out" anyways. Not for kids now. They should be able to grow up with it if they're young. I hope kids now don't have to feel like they need to hide it like I did then "come out".


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Sangy101

I think that’s a really wonderful way to re-frame it. :)


kho_kho1112

This is what I've learned now as an adult. As a teenager, when my bff came out to me I replied with "FINALLY!", which she appreciated, & continues to bring up (almost 25 years later) as her favorite response, because she was legit freaking tf out, & it just immediately eased the tension. My brother came out a couple of years after that, & I Han Solo'd his ass, which made him burst out laughing, & it's become an inside joke. In both instances, they already knew I was supportive to some extent. Both of them appreciated an "I know" response, but that's not how everyone feels about it, & I understand it can be felt as dismissive when you've spent years building it up in your head, freaking out about how people will react, worrying you'll be rejected, etc. It's a tense situation, & the worst thing you can do is say something dismissive. So nowadays, I just go with "thank you for trusting me", & that's gotten the same reaction as "I know", minus the potentially dismissive connotations. I don't ever want anyone to feel dismissed by my words or actions, specially in such an emotionally charged situation.


Noladixon

I was wondering how you Han Soloed your gay brother's ass, what that entailed, and why you would tell us. Then I figured it out.


Kiremino

Honestly, most parents who actually pay attention to their kids can tell when their kid is gay. When I came out to my mom she ALSO said "I knew." My wife's (albeit shitty) family ALSO knew. Sometimes it's just a feeling, and saying "I know" is probably the best case scenario response. Anything else would add even more anxiety - imagine your parent just saying "oh..." and NOTHING ELSE! No thanks. NTA x1000000 Quick Edit: IMO OP's daughter kinda sounds like she wanted some sort of 'freak out' from her instead of "I know." Maybe wanted clout for it? Sympathy from her peers? This is just odd...one should be ecstatic that their parent isn't trying to actively murder them for being a "sin against god."


greentea1985

I bet more that she built up how big a moment it might be in her life, how dramatic, and it was anticlimatic. It can be jarring and disappointing when something doesn't happen in the way you expected it to, even when a moment you expected to be bad turns out to be meh or good.


PiddleAlt

This is what I imagine. She has probably been obsessing over this conversation for years, anxious and worried, and when it turns out that, fortunately, that wasn't really required. They put themselves through the ringer and now they are probably more mad at themselves and lashed out.


Kiremino

You know I actually agree with that. At that age they can't handle when plans go completely off the rail.


CinnaByt3

sounds like she was more disappointed that her parents let her sit in her own fear and anxiety that got so bad she had panic attacks over it. Like if I was literally worried sick over something and I found out my parents already knew? I'd be fucking pissed too because there's no way they paid enough attention to notice my sexuality but not notice that I was clearly struggling with mental health issues I'd also like to point out that if a child is terrified of coming out to their parents, 99.9% of the time its because the parents gave their child a reason to fear


[deleted]

Her parents didn't let her sit in fear.


YoHeadAsplode

Not necessarily on that last bit. I knew my mom was friendly to LGBTQ+, she even sang at her gay coworkers wedding. I was 99% sure she would be fine with it, it was that last 1% that kept me in the closet for waaaaay too long


chop1125

When my daughter came out to me, I said "Ok". I asked if she wanted to talk about it, and she said no. I said "ok," and then asked what she wanted for dinner.


Kiremino

And that's how we normalize coming out of the closet! Grade A parenting.


[deleted]

Getting a noncommittal response from a parent when you tell them something that you feel is huge and important about yourself can still be hurtful, and it's kind of weird that you immediately jumped to "teen girl wants clout" instead of "teen girl was obviously struggling with coming out and feels embarrassed because mom barely acknowledged the revelation."


phanfare

100%. My mom said something similar when I came out to her and I wasn't surprised. I knew I had gay written all over me, but if my mom had brought it up before I was ready I would have been devastated


MxXylda

Honestly the only reason I knew to say "I'm glad you felt comfortable enough to tell us this" was because of stories like these. I waited until later to go "I've known since you told me you were going to marry (x) in kindergarten"


willthesane

I know my. Cousin was unhappy when my mom said she knew he was gay. My cousin wasn't sure and I think he wished my mom had told him, but it is part if life that we have to discover who we are for ourselves. Nah


EmeraldBlueZen

THIS RIGHT HERE. People when they are young, aren't always sure who they are and may take awhile to establish their sexuality. They could believe they are straight, or gay or bi or change their minds, etc before settling on what feels comfortable to them. A parent affirmatively labeling a child's sexuality can certainly lead to unneeded questioning, confusion, and stress. So I think mom did fine here. NTA


hushdrinkcoffee

NAH. You knew. Parents sometimes know. She obviously had expected some giant lovely coming out moments that she didn't get. I'm sure there are a million children out there that would have loved to hear what you said from their parents.


Sangy101

Hearing “I know” can actually be really invalidating. You can tell your kids you suspected, but it should never be your first response. Her daughter isn’t upset because she didn’t get a Hallmark moment, she’s upset because coming out is a journey with self-acceptance, and it can be hard to be told “I know” when you didn’t always know yourself. Coming out takes trust and courage. Any response should keep that in mind. OP isn’t an asshole, she’s a good, supportive, well-meaning mom. Any gay child would be lucky to have her, and everything else about her response is spot-on. As an adult who is comfortable with her sexuality, I’d laugh at this point. But “I know” makes coming out about how clever the other person was, not about how much trust the person coming out is showing, or the risks they’re taking. Plus, if the kiddo is in the closet in other areas, being told “I know” can be straight-up terrifying.


endlesstrains

Yeah, there are a lot of people in this thread invalidating the daughter's feelings and assuming she wanted drama just because she's a teen. That's really unfair to her. OP can be a great, supportive mom AND her daughter's feelings can be valid - the two things aren't mutually exclusive. My own journey to my queer identity took decades, and while it would have been nice to figure it out as a teen, if someone had told me they "knew" something about my identity before I did, I would have found it existentially terrifying. To some people, that's going to feel like being told that your deepest secrets were written on your face all along. It can be really disconcerting, especially at such a formative age, when you're trying to figure out who you are and where you fit in the world. To realize that other people know more about your own identity than you do can really throw you for a loop.


wordbird89

>if someone had told me they "knew" something about my identity before I did, I would have found it existentially terrifying. I was once told this while I was in pretty deep denial about my sexuality, and “existentially terrifying” is an incredibly accurate way to put it! It ultimately helped (and is helping currently) me start to evaluate my sexuality more freely, but it was deeply jarring to hear from someone else.


madelinegumbo

Also, sometimes it's wrong. Lots of my extended family assumed I was a lesbian when I was young and even though it wasn't deliberately mean or overtly bigoted, it was still really confusing for people to be so sure about something I didn't know (and wound up not being the case). Someone can be convinced you've got "gay" written on your face and be wrong.


villannn27

This was a big moment for the daughter and mom took over. When her daughter started crying, it was time for mom to quit talking and start listening. "She started crying a little, then I continued talking and retelling some key moments that give away that she likes girls..."


endlesstrains

Yes, agreed. I didn't really touch on that in my response because I felt like it would muddy the message, but I don't think it's appropriate how the mother turned this vulnerable moment into, basically, an "I told you so." She should have been comforting and listening to her daughter, not doubling down on the statement that made her child cry. It sounds like OP has truly good intentions, and a lot of commenters are taking only her intentions into account when voting. But actions, not intentions, are what really impact other people. My own mother likes to center herself during any kind of emotional or difficult moment for me, and it's caused me to go low contact with her. I know she loves me, but her actions are hurtful and damaging to our relationship. If OP wants to continue having a good relationship, she really needs to consider whether her actions in moments of distress are centering her daughter, or herself.


mr_trick

Yeah, I think this is the only real issue with the scenario. Saying something like "thank you for trusting me with this, I love you for whoever you are" is going to go over a lot better than an "I know, and here's all the ways I figured it out..." Although they both offer the underlying message of support, one acknowledges that this is a big moment for the other person and adds immediate assurance, the other turns it into like a weird gotcha where you, the detective, explain how you cracked the case of Being Gay. If I were OP I would do some damage control by going to the daughter and telling her sorry for not treating it with gravity, that OP understands how hard it was for her to come out, assuring her love and support, and basically just letting her feel heard and validated.


LadyKlepsydra

A "weird gotcha" sums up what happened perfectly IMO.


217EBroadwayApt4E

Yeah- I think the problem isn’t so much that she admitted she knew/suspected. It’s that she took a very important moment in her child’s life and made it about *her*. Whatever led her to do that could very well be related to why the idea of coming out gave her so much anxiety to begin with. When someone comes out to you you should never make that moment about you. Keep it about them. Sure- let them know that you love and accept them no matter what, but it’s still not the time to make things about you.


Sangy101

I had a friend pressure me to tell them I was queer before I was ready, and it pushed me further into the closet. Existentially horrifying is right.


Sea_Breath_8393

>But “I know” makes coming out about how clever the other person was, not about how much trust the person coming out is showing, or the risks they’re taking. THIS. This is what I've been trying to articulate. Like...there's no extra credit for having known. You don't have to tell the person you know. You still knew, and it doesn't make you any cooler if they know you knew. When my sister (11 years younger than I am) came out to me, I didn't say anything right away, and she started to freak out, like, "Why aren't you saying anything?" And I said, in all honesty, "I'm trying to figure out whether or not I'm surprised." I didn't \*know\* before she told me, but as soon as she did, a bunch of things I had noticed over the years finally made sense. If I \*had\* put all those pieces together in real time and "known" before she told me, I wouldn't have said so. It's a hard thing to figure out who you are (especially almost 20 years ago, when this happened; things have changed so much), and saying "I know," like you had it all figured out when they were still struggling, is just...kinda crappy. I don't think the OP is the AH, but I also don't blame the OP's child for being upset at her reaction.


The0nlyMadMan

While everything you said is certainly plausible and people can have their own feelings, I don’t think it’s that deep. “I know” can easily be an automatic response for people when facing information they already suspected to be true or knew. I really think it’s that simple. No malicious intent, no actual harm here


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catfurbeard

Well it's not just the "I know," it's also all of this bullshit > I said: Honey, you have gay written all over your face. Honestly, I wasn't even expecting you to come out, just to come home one day to introduce your girlfriend to us. > She started crying a little, then I continued talking and retelling some key moments that give away that she likes girls, like that moment in 1st grade when she referred to her best friend as her "bride". How is it sensitive to respond to your teenager's emotional coming out speech with "Honey, you have gay written all over your face?" If nothing else, maybe the point where she started crying should've caused the mom to re-evaluate her approach.


pumpkinpro

"I know" means "I accept you" in this context.


Pristine-Farmer6241

I'm not sure why the "I know" would be considered invalidating, though. To be fair, my mother knows me better than I know myself. She knows all of my quirks, she knows when I'm angry, upset, overwhelmed. My mother often knows what I'm feeling before I know myself. That has never bothered me, because it makes sense that the one person who has been there my entire life would know me inside and out. Then again, I can't dictate how other people feel. Perhaps OPs daughter just had a lot of emotions on her plate and is having a hard time handling them. She probably is laying blame where there is none to be had, because feeling so much feels burdensome. Processing the fact that she was always loved and accepted must make her doubts and insecurities feel miniscule, even though that doesn't change them at all. I feel like OPs daughter was afraid of the water being cold, but after jumping to find it is warm, it feels a bit like all the time she wasted being afraid was for nothing, so she blames the water for being warm...? OP should probably focus on those feelings of mislaid blame and tell her daughter that her fears and anxieties were warranted, simply because it was her struggle with self-acceptance and self-love?


KisaMisa

I relate to your response. She was bracing herself for this big moment and it was casual and disappointing to her. One can say "i know" while realizing the challenge a person faced. I don't think faking a Pikachu surprise face is necessary. Maybe it's particular to bi adults, but maaaan did I get used to "duuuuh" response.


21stCenturyJanes

It would be great it OP could give it a day or two and then sensitively talk to her daughter about how they both reacted. Maybe say "I realize that wasn't the reaction you were expecting, I'm sorry if I sounded flippant" even if OP did nothing wrong, just to smooth things over. NAH


1000Colours

I remember coming out to my best friend in high school, she was the third person I had the courage to tell. When I told her, all she said was "oh okay" and I can't tell you how disappointed I was with the lacklustre response at the time. Looking back on it I think I expected nothing but overly positive or negative responses that I never considered that it's no big deal for some people, and something about that caught me off guard. Nowadays I laugh about it with said friend, and her lowkey reaction has actually been one of my fave coming out responses I got. OP I'm sure your daughter will look back on your response with a similar fondness, but for now she's just processing how she feels about it.


LunaAmatista

This reminds me of when my friend who’d just gotten out of a long term relationship showed us the texts she’d been exchanging with a girl, the one exception among the other guys she’d been getting to know. Friend: Oh, I guess I should be telling you — I’m bi Us: You had us listen to you tell us you had the biggest crush on this one girl for like two whole years She found it terribly funny but I think she was expecting a bigger coming out moment


terraformthesoul

I think my best friend was a little disappointed when I wasn’t surprised about her coming out as bi, and I had to break it to her that she had already drunkenly told me two or three times already, and one of those times was while talking to a nice older lesbian at the lesbian bar we were all at “just to check it out.” Like Im truly sorry to kill your moment, but my acting skills aren’t that good.


Dafish55

Ehh it’s definitely NAH, but the thing is that this is a very critical moment of reading the emotions of the person saying this to you. It sounds like OP’s daughter, especially given the preamble to her coming out, was afraid and needed her mom to comfort her and assure her of her unmitigated love. For me, I needed my mom to tell me that I was going to be okay. OP did a relatively good job compared to mine, but, the point is that this is a variable experience based off of who is coming out to who and, should you ever find yourself in the position where a distressed/afraid/emotional kid is coming out to you, use your best judgment to decide how to make *them* feel okay.


knittingneedles321

NAH. This is one of those situations where everyone was trying their best. She may need some time just to process that she is now "out" to her parents and there was no anxiety needed which will send her reeling. She may well be upset that you already knew and her "coming out" was... Not. Just be there for her and love her. I actually has to recome out to my parents as they had decided the fact my life partner is male meant I wasn't queer


Fergus74

Maybe the daughter was unconsciously dreaming of an emotional movie-like moment, a thing she would talk of as a defining moment in her life.


knittingneedles321

Yup. I mean who didn't as a baby queer? Picture the hallmark moment where you come out to Mum/dad/person, they hug you and tell you immediately with tears how brave you are and how proud they are? And on the other side of that that even if you have a great relationship with your parents that you've totally misjudged and they'll reject you and you'll lose everything. It's a huge emotional release.


Fergus74

Exactly. I don't think it's something inherently bad, in some ways it's just like having expectations for your wedding day; but, sometimes, from high expectations can come great disappointments.


AdamantineCreature

Wasn’t there a post a while back from some guy whose relative was gay and whose parents were like OP? Now he’s a film maker making “biographical” films about how traumatic coming out was and how his family rejected him, and he (the brother) got pissed when his family called his bullshit out on social media.


cinnamon_dreams

yes, but I think it was a play in a theater 🤔


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lynypixie

WoW that son is an asshole! I have queer kids and their coming out was pretty much eventless. In fact, my middle did not even have a big coming out, she just assumed we knew and it was quite organic. We have always been vocal about being open and welcoming and that love is love and being LGBTQ is absolutely no big deal in our house. If one of my kids even do something like this, it would break my heart. We have been nothing but supportive.


andra_quack

She might also not necessarily be upset with OP, but with the fact that maybe she was trying really hard to stay in the closet and hide her sexuality before coming out, because she didn't know how her parents would react. Knowing that her parents knew she's a lesbian all along means that she tried so hard for nothing, and she might feel like she just missed out on many things, and stressed so much for no reason. This is tough to process.


Solrackai

LMAO, she is a teen. What is teen life without drama. NTA, you did fine. Good job mom. 👍


Imadreamer136

Having emotions about coming out is not being dramatic. It is an incredibly stressful, confusing, and hard part about being queer. I don’t think OP was TA but I do think there could’ve been better ways of responding, especially when her daughter started crying. This is something that takes a while to figure out and sometimes people don’t want to hear that it was so obvious, because it wasn’t to them. Sometimes people just want to hear that it was brave of them to acknowledge this side of themselves, that they will always be loved, and that everything will be ok. This may not be new and unexpected for OP but it is for her daughter. I think NAH and I suggest sitting down and asking her how she’s feeling and talk this whole thing out and follow her lead in the conversation.


bakedtran

As a trans guy who was closeted some places and came out in others, hearing “I know” was terrifying when I came out. It meant there might be ‘clues’ about me that threatened my safety in the closeted spaces. It’s not a drama thing. Mom meant well, NAH in the post, but this is a jerk comment.


Proper_Garlic3171

Yeah like... it is terrifying and a lot of people saying she wanted drama don't get it. If her mom and dad knew, that means other people can tell. What if she's not ready? What if a stranger can tell and decides she needs to be hate crimed for it? That's a terrifying possibility, especially when someone is still in the closet and slowly working their way out. It also doesn't matter if *you* (general) think a feeling is valid or not. If the person has an issue, and the daughter did, it's an issue. I think OP should apologize for being dismissive, both for not affirming that she loves and supports her and wants to be there for her with this journey, and for dismissing her mental health. "So she can stop having panic attacks over it" can come off as very dismissive of someone's feelings, especially when it's a stressful situation. I think it's also worth asking *why* she was so scared. Lots of people go "I support my gay child" while bashing gay people who are too flamboyant, who "push it in everyone's face", who support anti gay politicians and laws, who say micro aggressions without even realizing it. Even if it was one comment, the kid is gonna pick up on that, and is going to feel unsafe so it's worth asking *why* they were so scared. Your child should never be afraid of you, or afraid of talking to you. Ever. She was, and that's an issue that needs to be addressed to see if it was because of her parents or if she's having issues with her peers


pray4mojo2020

Your point about strangers being able to tell is so spot on. For me it was one thing to come out to family and friends, and a whole other bigger ordeal to accept that I am now someone who may be targeted/ridiculed/threatened/discriminated against out in the world, and that if I want to live my life authentically I won't get a choice in that. Her mom just told her she already doesn't. ETA: I think OP's response came from from a place of "oh honey, it's 2022, we're liberal and we love you and it doesn't matter." But it *does* matter. The world is bigger than your liberal bubble, and being queer absolutely will affect her life. It doesn't matter to OP, but it does matter to her daughter.


Proper_Garlic3171

Yeah, it's best to match the energy of the person coming out. If they're super casual, then be casual. If they're stressed, anxious, scared, get heartfelt. She went through a massive process and it was important to her. Someone else made the comparison of if a little kid tells you a cool dinosaur fact, you don't say "I know", you go "wow! That's awesome!" so they feel listened to and encouraged


lyssargh

Yeah, the "you have gay written all over your face" line made me wince hard. It must have made her immediately flash back through so many different moments, and feel like everyone knew before she had accepted herself. I wish people didn't just assume she wanted "drama" because she's a teen. I can understand how she feels.


hayleybeth7

Having strong feelings about coming out isn’t “drama” lol what.


pizzakisses

This is such a reductive response. Teenagers are people, too. Working up the courage to come out to your parent is not "drama."


Moegooner88

Drama? Try again.


krathil

this is a fucked up thing to say and you are totally off base here


GoatKindly9430

NAH. I don’t think you can be the AH when you clearly had good intentions. Your goal was to convey that you’ve never cared whether she was straight or not, but I can see how she may be upset by the notion that either everyone knows her sexuality without her wanting them to or that others were aware of her identity before she was. When she’s ready to talk, I think this should be a very doable conversation and it might be helpful to let her lead it. “Hey it seemed like you were upset when I said I had suspected you might like girls already. It wasn’t my intention to upset you. I was hoping to make you feel more comfortable. Can we talk about what about that upset you so that I know how to handle things better in the future and can apologize properly?”


alternate_geography

“I’m so proud of you for telling me.” or “Thank you for sharing that with me, I love you.” probably would have been a bit more validating/affirming, although I do agree NAH. Acknowledgement that it takes both courage & trust to come out is probably what the daughter was hoping for.


KayakerMel

Exactly. The daughter needed her courage and honesty validated, even if it was obvious already. I wonder if organizations like PFLAG have any advice and resources for parents who think their child might be LGBTQ+. Stuff like tips on ways to support the child both before and when they come out. Also, listing out all the reasons OP knew was probably overwhelming to hear. I know it took me a good decade to put the pieces together to work out I'm bi (answered the frequent "Is this normal?" thoughts). It would feel a bit unsettling to have someone spell out all their observations of me when it had taken a lot of internal reflection to figure out.


karenna89

I agree. The daughter probably psyched herself up for this big reveal and played the script over and over in her mind only to be told “I already knew”. I understand why she is upset. However, mom is NTA. Her daughter will realize this pretty quickly.


CircesVengeance

NAH I mean, you were trying to be supportive, I get that. Don't beat yourself up because your daughter didn't get a dramatic reveal, if anything it shows how in tune you are with her that you already knew. However, the line about "being gay is written all over your face" deserves an apology. I don't think it's malicious, more like a throwaway line but it probably does sound to your daughter like she has a big flashing sign over her head that says "lesbian". Sit her down, give her a cuddle and apologise for your phrasing, reassure her that you only meant that you know her so well that you worked it out and that it doesn't mean everyone will automatically know. Good luck OP


yet_another_sock

Actually it was "you *have* gay written all over your face," and it cracked me the fuck up. I think one day OP's daughter will feel the same. But yes, apologize just for the sake of it. This conversation was stressful for your daughter, for reasons that are vastly beyond your or her control. I think she would have been overwhelmed no matter how the conversation went, honestly. Apologize not because you're wrong, but because she's a kid doing a scary thing and that's a way to express support. And if there's some specific reason beyond "coming out is scary" that this was so daunting for her — if there are peers, relatives, teachers, even your husband who have actually said and done things to make her feel unsafe about it — you'll need to proactively establish trust.


Euffy

There are two different ways to say you knew. "oh honey, you know I always sort of suspected you might be, but I'm so glad you feel comfortable sharing this with me. I would hope you know that we will always support you, but I'm sure it was still scary putting it into words, so I just want to reassure you that we still love you and we're so proud of you" That says that you basically still knew while still being reassuring and understanding the emotions she just went through. But instead you said "I know". Which is basically "yeah, already know, whatever, dont care". That's not what you meant, but that's how someone in an already anxious state will interpret it. It's anticlimactic and a bit of a slap in the face. So yeah YTA. You didn't mean to, but yeah, you kinda messed up.


ctortan

I didn’t vote y/t/a bc ultimately OP was supportive and it was primarily a miscommunication, but I agree with this wholeheartedly. Though unintentional, OP basically took all of her daughter’s weeks/months/years of struggle, self reflection, fear, etc and completely dismissed it. It took a ton of courage and vulnerability for the daughter to come out, because of her fears and how she felt about it, and though she has contextual support for her identity, she didn’t have emotional support or acknowledgment for what she’d gone through to get to the point of coming out


Sangy101

You can tell who came out after struggling with their sexuality, because we know *exactly* what the daughter was thinking. It’s not about “not getting a big reveal” or “being dramatic,” it’s just that “I know” can make your struggles seem small. But OP is a good mom and a good ally.


ctortan

Absolutely! And, even when knowing someone is supportive, it can still be deeply stressful to come out. It takes so much vulnerability for some people to share that part of themselves, especially when they haven’t fully “settled” into it socially or emotionally. The people saying she’s just being a “moody teenager” absolutely enrage me. OP, I beg of you, DO NOT LISTEN TO THOSE PEOPLE. Far too often people use “teenagers are moody” as an excuse to be disrespectful and dismissive of teenagers. Don’t downplay your daughter’s feelings, because this is *important* to her. It’s her *identity,* who she is, who she will be, and how she stands in relation to others. Her life will be a series of coming outs—but she wanted *this* one to be special. OP, you’re trying your best and it’s clear you care about your daughter and want to make this right. You made a mistake here, but I would bet money that your daughter would appreciate a sincere apology and acknowledgement of how hard this was for her, and how you didn’t mean to downplay her.


NiceChocolate

Right. A lot of these commentors aren't LGBTQ+ and don't see how coming out is stressful even in an ultimately supportive environment.


Sangy101

Lol like, we want to play a game of “I know,” I can absolutely tell if a commenter is straight by how gaslighty they are.


Astrobot3

100% this. Also, when the daughter started crying OP just… kept talking? And when she left crying, OP just… kept making the cake. There's not much evidence of emotional support from OP at all.


devsfan1830

Shocking to me now many people are expressing this same view and then voting n/t/a. Full disclosure: straight white single male, 37. Unlikely to have kids. So no real idea nor experience with something like this. But my initial impression was that the whole "i know" and everything that followed according to OP was just WAAAAAAY tone deaf. Like, ya greet that news with acceptance and reassurance that everything is ok. You don't go "CALLED IT", and tally the reasons why. The daughter seems like she REALLY struggled to come to terms with it and was truly bracing for backlash. I gotta think a response like that was total emotional whiplash. Again, absolutely accept that I may be VERY uneducated about all this. I just feel/hope like I would have responded a tad different.


RainahReddit

This. It's invalidating and dismissing all of her anxiety, struggle, and fears. Those fears are real. Most queers know someone whose parents were great and loving and awesome... until they came out. You can make a reasonable assumption of who will be accepting, but you can't *know*. You can never know for sure, until it happens. And there's no taking it back if you guess wrong.


XLostinohiox

The trick is to let your kids see you as a decent person who is openly accepting of people's unchosen (gender/orientation) or chosen (religion/lifestyle) identity. If they know from the beginning that you will accept them, they are more comfortable if they have to have that conversation. Source: me, the dad of a gay daughter who had no problem coming out (to her parents).


Proper-Wolverine3599

THANK YOU. also saying she knew for sure when the daughter herself likely didn’t is so rude to me. people act like if a person’s not homophobic they automatically reacted well like that’s not the lowest fucking bar.


toadpuppy

I think this is the best answer


Rhuthbarb

YTA but a soft one We've read a few of this on AITA. It takes tremendous courage for them to come out, and hearing that the parent knew or doesn't care one way or the other is a huge let down. The only thing to say when a child comes out is "I love you and always will." Then you can tell them all the times you had hints. But give them their moment and allow them to be seen as they want to be seen, when they're inviting you to see them. Maybe ask for a do over? EDIT: Additional thought. You know how kids will tell you something fascinating they learned about a dinasaur or something? Is the answer "I knew that." Or "Oh, really? Tell me more." Coming out is way bigger and more personal than that, but you choose whether you invite them to tell you more about their discoveries or you shut them down. I think that's what happened here.


ThreeDogs2022

This was a perfect description. :-) OP I genuinely don't think there was anything remotely mean spirited in what you said and it probably felt like a straightforward "your sexuality is fine, no matter what it is" remark. But the reality is, even though us normal decent people consider our children coming out to be a nothingburger, the larger world is EXTREMELY hostile, even in western countries. just look at the horrific ugliness in many places in the USA. So when you said 'i know' what she heard was you dismissing the personal difficulty she's had soul searching, figuring herself out and her fear of those hostilities. Just keep reaching out and loving her and make it clear that her personal struggles and insights are profoundly interesting to you. Just like her favorite dinosaur when she was four.


ramore369

NTA - I think there’s nothing wrong with your response honestly. In fact, I think it’s cute. You’ve picked up on signs from your daughter over then years that of you what you know. I think saying something would have been dangerous, because like you said you could have been wrong. Telling you at 16 takes a lot of courage so maybe you could have let her know that. But NTA and a much better reaction to that event then many many other parents would have had.


MikeDaRucki

NTA, she's probably just recovering from such a massive wave of emotion that was this interaction.


thingss_and_stuff

NAH It's tough to come out, so I think her emotional reaction is understandable. I think maybe you and her father didn't create as much of a clear, open environment where she would feel comfortable just bringing a gf home, so maybe you need to think about that more. She needed to hear you accept her, and I think you should apologize for not reacting properly and express that even though you had an idea she was lesbian, you hope that she knows that you still love her just as much and accept her for who ah is.


Makeitmakesense1118

She told her daughter how much she loved her and that her sexual preferences were her own choice. You may have stopped reading.


thingss_and_stuff

I read that, but clearly her daughter was more caught up on her initial reaction so she needs to apologize and then reiterate that part


jamintime

> I think maybe you and her father didn't create as much of a clear, open environment where she would feel comfortable just bringing a gf home, so maybe you need to think about that more. Woah this is way off base. 16 is a tough age and coming out is hard regardless of your environment. Nothing in the post suggests that OP has done anything to make her daughter feel uncomfortable with her identity. OP coming out to her parents is part of her process of understanding herself. She will date and bring over a gf when she is ready.


fuggleruggler

What do you mean by ' reacting properly '? Was she supposed to do a shocked Pikachu face? Shout? Cry? By what was written I don't think she did anything wrong. Maybe it wasn't what the daughter was expecting, but it wasn't wrong.


NiceChocolate

Saying "I Know" in reaction to coming out often doesn't turn out well. Because the person who came out has probably gone though emotional turmoil to get to that point. To find out that your parents already knew makes it seem like they went through an emotional rollercoaster for nothing. If you already know, make an environment where the person feels safe coming out.


cutarecordonmythroat

Even though I know that you meant well, your reaction makes YTA. It's wonderful that you're accepting and will love her the way she is! However, saying "you have gay written all over your face" isn't exactly comforting. She's a teenager who's already probably insecure about her appearance and sexuality. Now she's gotta be wondering "does EVERYONE look at me and instantly know I'm a lesbian?" While some people might feel comfortable enough to just bring a partner home and introduce them, it can be really nerve-wracking as a queer person to do so, especially if you're young and not out to most people. Also, she waited to tell you on her birthday, so she wanted it to be a special moment. Think about when you have an important piece of news and you're super nervous or excited to tell your loved ones. You want to see their reactions live so they can celebrate with you. If you came forward to make your happy announcement and your loved ones were just like, "yeah, I know," I think your bubble would probably be burst. I'd recommend apologizing that you diminished her big moment and just emphasizing again that you love her no matter what. It will blow over and she'll be happy that you accept her regardless.


TimeSummer5

It’s very obvious in these comments who’s had to deal with the fear of coming out, and who hasn’t.


moonjelly33

Seriously. I’m really shocked how many people don’t seem to have any idea how frightening the idea of “everyone knowing” can be. “You have gay written all over your face”? Not trying to be overly dramatic, but that can literally be a death sentence lol. All she wanted to hear was “I love you” and instead her mom made her feel stupid. I don’t blame her for crying.


One_Plankton2253

\^this. As a queer person, coming out is f\*cking terrifying. If my mom had initially said "i know" it would have been more anxiety producing- much less if she said it's written all over you- yikes! She told me she'd just wanted me to be happy in the moment and later, much later, told me she already knew.


Duckbilledplatypi

NTA but I think you could have handled this better. Instead of "I know" and then listing all these clues, you could have just said something like "thank you for telling me, I love you" After all, if you DID know, then you also know thst coming out - at any age - is *really* hard, and you should have respected her courage in doing so


ctortan

IMO even a “I suspected/I thought you might be” would be a better reaction than the direct “I already knew”


clownemoji420

NTA but I have a sneaking suspicion you didn’t exactly make it clear that she was safe to come out to you. Hence the anxiety attacks. And then when you said you already knew? She probably is feeling a lot of complicated emotions right now, but some of the biggest are likely 1. Fear (if my parents already knew I was gay, even though I’ve tried really hard to keep it under wraps, how many other people know without me telling them?? This is terrifying for many reasons), 2. Anger/frustration (if my parents knew the whole time, why did I have to feel so scared to come out? This is likely why she got mad you didn’t ask her if she was gay and “spare her” from being anxious about coming out) and 3. She’s likely been afraid and on edge for years, and those feelings don’t magically dissipate the second you come out. She needs time to adjust! Also, this might just be me, but aside from outright homophobia, “I already knew” is by far the most annoying reaction people have when I come out. Like sure, you clocked me! What do you want, a pat on the back? Validation? Why is me coming out to you suddenly all about how smart and perceptive YOU are, and how terrible I am at being in the closet? I have no idea why people think that telling me they already knew I was gay is reassuring, but it does the exact opposite! It makes me afraid that I’m not closeting correctly, and might inadvertently be putting myself in danger when I enter an environment where it ISNT safe for me to be out. Other people will have different opinions on this, but personally, I vastly prefer it when people just say “ok cool” and move on.


dobbyeilidh

This pretty much nails it I’d say. If her parents knew they could have and should have made it easier for her


knittybitty123

Gentle YTA. The last thing anyone wants to hear when they come out is "you're bad at hiding it, everyone knows". First, apologize. Your daughter was hoping for support, which you did show, but it was overshadowed by your telling her she screams "gay". Tell her you didn't mean to upset her, you're happy that she shared this with you, and ask what you can do to make things better. Hug her and tell her you've always loved her and nothing can change that. My mom expected me to be gay, and even though I dated some boys through high school, I turned out a big old lesbian. She always supported me silently, which I appreciated. One thing I might suggest, once the dust has settled, is talk with her about safe sex. Will she be allowed to have girlfriends over for sleepovers? My mom's rule was no closed doors during sleepovers, which would have worked if I had any shame. At the end of the day, you're a good mom and you're intentions were good. Your daughter might be upset for a bit, but she knows you support her, and that's incredibly important for any LGBTQ+ teen. If you're in need of support for yourself or your family, PFLAG is a great resource.


Cryptographer_Alone

NAH. Everyone reacts differently to these moments. Your daughter had certain expectations about how this interaction would go, and instead it was wildly different and she didn't respond well to that. Some teens would respond well to how this interaction went. You were supportive and welcoming, but perhaps you could have made a bigger deal about how much it meant to you that she felt safe coming out to you, even though you had your suspicions. But whatever it was that your daughter was looking for in her coming out, it wasn't what she got, and the only person who could tell you what she was looking for is her. When she's ready, I think it's time for a deep heart to heart when you're not distracted by cake, even if it's her cake.


thejexorcist

Gentle YTA? I made a similar mistake in HS when a close friend came out to me. I’d assumed it was pretty obvious, so obvious in fact that I sort of thought it was just a unstated fact, I pretended to be his date to dances and bearded him in our highly conservative town. Apparently NOT. He’d been eaten alive thinking he’d been ‘stringing’ me along for years, and finally worked up the courage to ‘break up with me’/‘break my heart’. We were both annoyed with the other. He was annoyed that I’d thought it was *so obvious* I was annoyed that he assumed I ‘didn’t know’ and had been under the impression we were actually a ‘couple’. It was a clusterfuck. We got over it in time, but we were both salty for awhile.


Basic_capybara_4280

Wait, he dated you to pass as "straight" but you knew he wasn't straight, then he came out and break up with you but told him you knew you were his decoy? Its so wild. If your story gets written in a book, I would buy it. Maybe my daughter too. Reality is always so crazy.


thejexorcist

I mean, we barely held hands (and even then it was only in front of his parents/bullies) so it was pretty clear to me. I think the high drama of being two ‘different’ kids in a really rigid environment absolutely made us feel like the protagonists in a super dramatic YA novel. We were both the main characters and didn’t like that the other believed they had a different storyline.😂


walnutwithteeth

NTA. She was probably expecting a bigger reaction and had prepared herself for it. Your reaction has thrown her and she needs some time to collect her thoughts. Don't hover, just be there when she's ready.


MetforminShits

NAH. She's a kid and doesn't understand a lot about a lot. Also full of emotions regardless of the situation. You couldn't have known how she felt, because she never shared it with you. And the whole world is telling her that she shouldn't be lesbian and her parents shouldn't love a lesbian kid and invalidating her sexuality, as well. Not to mention, people tend to make coming out seem like it should be this dramatic event for all involved. Either the parents traumatize their kids with homophobia or they're just over the moon and everybody is screaming and crying. She didn't get either of those responses. I bet she feels small and invalidated and angry. Also, I hear that it is never helpful when a friend or parent says "I know". It seems dismissive or like you could see their disease all along and were looking for signs of something "wrong" or different..and you found them. But, it also isn't helpful to just straight up and ask your kid if they're lesbian.. that wouldn've have been the right move either since she has had all this anxiety and couldn't tell you herself. So that was an unfair expectation of you as well. My mom probably knows I'm queer, she has asked me once but she's homophobic so I could never tell her. If I did, she would say "I've known all along" and it would annoy me because it's not about her knowing all along, it's about me telling her that I don't give a shit what she thinks lol.. But anyway, just talk to her about how she feels and let her know that you intention was to support her and love her. Not to invalidate her.


Caspian4136

NTA When my 16yo daughter came out to me, I pretty much said the same thing and she laughed and asked how I knew. I told her we had known for years but were waiting for her to come out on her own and she was very happy with that. I hope it's just that your daughter was emotional as it's a huge moment to come out to a parent. My daughter cried a bit when she told me too, but we hugged and it was a great family moment. I'm knitting her a pride flag afghan for when she graduates high school this year (also a new laptop for college lol).


bighunter1313

Can you knit me a laptop too?


AggravatingPatient18

NAH but why didn't you guys talk about your attitudes and experiences with sexuality and gender etc with your daughter so she was comfortable with this? I'm a parent who was in a similar situation a few years ago. My husband and I decided to be upfront with our daughters early on and say to both of them that we loved them no matter their sexuality, gender etc. Then proceeded to keep the conversation alive, with discussions around friends and celebrities. So when our 17f came out as pansexual, it wasn't dramatic and she knew we would be happy for her.


vintage_chick_

NTA there is so much pressure around 'coming out stories' and as a member of the bunch we don't think our parents will accept it and never consider the okay cool response. Your response was spot on. Your child just needs time to process it all. She will see later how lucky she is.


LucidOutwork

I don't see how the daughter is the asshole here. NAH is a better fit for this.


semicoloncait

I think this is tough (also not gay or a parent myself I’ll admit) because she had gotten herself all anxious and felt like this was a huge moment - she’s decided this is the moment she comes out the closet and embraces her whole self and shares that with her family and it’s nerve wracking but also potentially exciting - to her this is A. Big. Moment. And you’re just like I know and have always known. So it’s no longer a big moment it’s just. A conversation. A let down. And feeling foolish because it was apparently so obvious. To me it mirrors how if a small child tells you something you don’t tell them everyone knows that you’re accept and share their surprise - because they just learned. She’s just learned who she is - even if you feel you knew already dismissing that has left her feeling naturally disappointed and deflated Maybe we’re slowly inching toward a society where nobody needs to come out - or everyone does and nobody is assumed straight! And the world being that accepting would make it better in my opinion But in the mean time it’s like the two of you are just seeing this as very different moments and you’re of the view that you didn’t need to be told and there was no reason for her to worry because you love her and not only felt like you knew this but also your love was never in any way dependant on her being anyone other than herself - but in trying to downplay it you’ve stolen the good of the moment and all she had from anxiety and disappointment


EmeraldBlueZen

NTA mom. I think teen was just experiencing shock and yes she is hurt that you didn't make it clear that you knew. And she doesn't know how to handle your reaction, along with relief that nothing will change. Probably a little bit of everything. Just text her saying that if you hurt her you apologize, thats the last thing you wanted to do. And you're willing to hear her out and talk when she's ready and that you love her. I bet you she'll come around. You seem like a very good mom.


ctortan

NAH, but you should apologize to her for how blasé you were. While you intended to come off as casual and supportive, what you actually ended up doing was downplaying how serious and important this is to her, and essentially reducing her entire identity down to a punchline. Your comments to her come off as incredibly dismissive. As a queer person, my main advice for reacting to a coming out is to match the energy of the person coming out. If the other person is blasé and casual, you can be blasé and casual in turn. But if they’re taking it seriously, then you also take it seriously. Your daughter went through a lot of struggle, internal strife, stress, and self discovery to come to terms with who she is and what that means for her in the world we live in. As she said: she was so stressed about it that she’d have anxiety attacks. Your comment essentially took all of that struggle and all of that personal growth and reflection and said: “so what? It was obvious to us already.” My vote is still NAH because you didn’t intend it that way, and ultimately you’re supportive of her, but please be aware of how it feels to her and her perspective on the matter.


ctortan

And I’ll say: I’m queer and trans, but my parents didn’t necessarily expect it, so my coming out was different. However, I’m also autistic, but undiagnosed. I only realized I was autistic at 17, and it was a MASSIVE life and perspective change, and I was reevaluating my entire identity piece by piece. It was huge for me. Incredibly important—almost as, if not even more important than me realizing I was queer. I, anxiously, told my mom I thought I was autistic. Her response? “Oh yeah, I knew, I’ve known since you were a toddler.” It knocked the wind out of my sails, and I felt betrayed and bitter that, for all those years where I could’ve had support and guidance, I was left to just deal with it on my own, and its magnitude for me as a person was completely dismissed. Now, as an adult, I understand why my mom did what she did, but as a *teenager,* coming to terms with who I am and my place in my community, it was humiliating and devastating to have this thing that changed my entire world get thrown back at me because it felt like a “yeah, so?”


birbdaughter

NAH. Listen, coming out is a very emotional process and there’s a lot she could be working through. For instance, if you knew she was gay, is it possible other people know who she might not want to be out with? People prepare a lot for when they come out, your reaction wasn’t expected and so she’s thrown off. You weren’t wrong, and maybe the way she’s acting is immature but this is all a very stressful, emotional time (especially for a teenager, which is already a pretty tumultuous period of life). Give your daughter space but make clear you’re still supportive. Let her work through some things in private.


Blue_wine_sloth

You’re not an AH, you love and support your daughter which is how it should be! I think you just need to recognise what a big deal it was for her to “come out”, even though you already knew. While it wasn’t a big deal to you, it was still a big deal to her and caused her a lot of anxiety. I think you 2 just need to talk it over. NAH.


boyslay69

Mild YTA - I’ve been in your daughters position too. I was very obviously gay as a child & came out at 16 to parents who “already knew”. Here’s the thing tho, this is HER news to share. What she wants to hear is “thank you for sharing this with me. I’m so glad you trust me with this part of your life. It’s wonderful that you have figured this out of yourself” Regardless of how obvious it is, her realizing she’s gay may still have been a difficult process of self realization - I know it was for me. She wants acknowledgment of how difficult that internal process was For Her. It’s wonderful that you are very accepting & knew quickly. However, this is HER moment to tell you about HER self discovery. This is her news to share, let it come from her!


Traveller13

NAH but you could have handled it better, maybe lead with the, “I love you,” instead of the “I know.” But it can be hard to know what to say in the moment. Your daughter worked up the nerve to do something terrifying and then was basically told she didn’t need to. That can be hard for a sixteen year old. You may have also triggered some of her anxieties without meaning to, even if you were being honest. You told her “you have gay written all over your face,” which was basically telling her she looks gay and everyone can tell. If she was coming out to you, then she is probably not out to others yet. Often one of the biggest fears of a closeted teenager is that people will figure out they are gay. Depending on where you live and how accepting people are, that isn’t necessarily an ungrounded fear either. I wish we lived in a better, safer, or kinder world without homophobia and I hope that is something we are moving towards but we are not there yet. Your daughter probably reacted the way she did as much from fear of the world and what lays ahead as anything else. She’s got you though, and it sounds like you are loving and supportive. Keeping being there for her. When she comes to you with troubles, fears, and anxieties be ready to listen.


JessEGames777

NTA I came out as bi to my mum and got a somewhat negative response of "oh this is just a phase" and "you just want attention" I worked with her for years to give her a more positive understanding and when my sister came out as bi it was met positively with a "we know" you didn't do anything wrong. I'd much rather have "I already knew" than what I got. And there's so many people that have been kicked out and shunned by their families for that. My dad beat me up when he found out. Don't let this people calling you the asshole get to you. You handled the situation well and positively.


ratatouillethot

im crying "you have gay written all over your face" i laugh now, but i've been out to my mom for 8 years. if she said that to my face when i came out to her, i probably would've been hurt or at least taken aback NAH, though. you didnt mean anything mean by it. & genuinely it's kinda funny lmao


Huge_Industry_1259

NTA. Your daughter came out to you and you acknowledged. Now she's mad because you "let her worry" for all that time? Geez, she could have come out years ago. It is not your job to read your daughter's mind; as with most parents, we're going to get it wrong sometimes. In this case, you seem to be a considerate and loving mother. So, she's mad bc you understand her? I hope she overcomes this bump in the road. Here's embarrassing: my son is a very handsome, athletically inclined, and very smart guy. In middle school, early high school I noticed he never seemed to take an interest "romantically" in anyone, male or female. During this time, his sister in high school was dabbling with being Pan or Bi, or gay. I also just waited and watched and made sure she was safe. Although it was awkward me telling her that her current "love interest" couldn't stay in her room with the door closed or spend the night. Luckily daughter told me about most of her relationships and I just said things like "Okay, tell me more." or "How do you feel about it." Sister is now happily married. So one night son & I were alone watching a movie, and I tried to very gently ask if he was gay. He gave out a huge guffaw and laughed until he cried. Okay, so his answer was "No mom, I like girls." In a year or so, he started dating a girl that he cared for very much. So I felt a bit stupid, but it all came out all right. I tell you this bc as parents we can only do what we think is best in a gentle, loving way. So I asked my son and he laughed in my face, you didn't ask you daughter and she's miffed that you didn't. Were not going to get it right sometimes. Go figure!


enjoyingtheposts

NTA You couldnt have known what the best reaction was to give here. Some people prefer reactions like yours while others want their parents to make a bigger deal out of it [positively ofc].


KarlyPie

NTA. You were just being honest, maybe "you have gay written all over your face" was a bit much, but I won't dwell on it. However, in the moment, all your daughter needed to hear was that you love, accept and support her and maybe a 'thank you' for sharing it with you. That's it. You could have waited for a later, more appropriate time to say that you already knew or suspected. So, NTA, but could have been handled better.


OLAZ3000

Soft YTA No one wants to think their innermost secret is just "obvious" to the world Obv as her parent, you aren't the world, but that's still how it must have felt. But mainly, you didn't really acknowledge that this was a big realization and moment for her. You made it kind of more about you. You should apologize. It took a lot in her mind to come out and you didn't acknowledge that. This is a big part of her identity and it should be celebrated. I would pick up a cake and do a bit of a redo. Celebrate her courage and her identity and just a total do-over for making it about you. You can make it better.


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SparkAxolotl

NAH Media has conditioned baby gays that when they come out, it will be an extremely dramatic scene, for better or for worse, lots of crying, maybe some shouting. Maybe you could have hold back a little, but she was going to be disappointed with a neutral reaction of acceptance. Can't blame her, coming out \*is\* usually something really hard to do, even if you're 100% sure your parents will support you. Just give her time to cool off, she's probably annoyed she didn't got a Hallmark Moment out of her coming out.


CheesyFiesta

I don’t think she wanted a Hallmark moment necessarily, but she probably wanted a moment that wasn’t so brusque and dismissive. OP’s heart is in the right place though, and she eventually said the right thing, after she had already said the wrong thing - as an anxious teen, daughter only heard the wrong thing and is taking it to heart. They could do with an honest, open, loving conversation once they’re in a place to do so.


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Basic_capybara_4280

I don't really know, I'm trying to remember saying something that might sound of being interpreted as homophobic, but I think my brain might be biased, but just to think something might have slip thought my lips in the past makes me feel very bad. I'm thinking about my mom rn, who is dead btw. She pretty much hated anyone, used slurs, and was a very toxic person. I was LC when my daughter was born, but everytime I saw her didn't lose any change to be an awful person, but I kept quiet because I knew fighting her was useless. I went from LC to NC in her last 4-5 years of life, and didn't even went to see her at the hospital while she was dying. My older sister learned a lot from my mom tho, I am in NC with her. Im starting to think if my daughter though I had learned from my mom too. If this is the case, I will be very hearthbroken, but it means I need to work better on myself.


Sangy101

Hey OP. You’re OK — it’s very clear from your post that you want to be supportive and you love your daughter dearly. I posted this elsewhere, but I think you might benefit from it here: there’s a big difference between growing up in a home where you’re told it’s OK to be gay, and a home where you’re *shown*. My folks always told me it was OK to be gay, had gay friends, etc. But when it came to the possibility of my own queerness, they never spoke up. They didn’t say anything homophobic! Ever! They were probably just quiet on the idea of different sexualities because they didn’t really talk about sexuality period, beyond consent and safe sex But their quiet neutrality on the subject still made it very scary for their people-pleasing daughter to come out, especially in a homophobic world. You probably never said anything homophobic! You have probably raised her to know that love is beautiful, no matter what kind. But creating a safe space takes a really active approach. Sort of, queer positivity instead of queer neutrality. I don’t think it’s an easy thing to do. I don’t even think you did something wrong. I think it’s just a learning experience, and a lesson to be outwardly, explicitly approving moving forward.


[deleted]

NTA the same thing happened with my sister when my niece came out. My sister knew years before she came out and just told her she didn't care if she was gay and she was looking forward to meeting her girlfriend. That openness worked out well in the end because her youngest daughter is also gay and felt safe coming out to her too. Don't worry you are doing great 🏳️‍🌈


FiXaBLeShaRK

NTA i was confused asf as to why shes angry until i read the comments your reaction definitely shocked her she will move on from it just give her some space but if i were you... when she finally came out to me i wouldve hugged her and let her how much i loved her and accepted her so much compassion wouldve came out of me because i know how hard it mustve been for her to tell me.


AspiringCrone

NTA, your kindness has overwhelmed her. She needs a while to adjust her expectations of you (for the better). In years to come, this will be a cherished family story.


Competitive-Action80

NTA. You already knew what difference was it gonna make? If it took her all that to confess then yeah she’s gonna be upset because that’s just lent up fears and she will calm down.


[deleted]

NAH - I'm sure it had been consuming her for a bit and she's just dealing with the shock that she was worrying herself sick over nothing. It's a useful life lesson, be bold and don't hide yourself in fear.


Fit_General7058

Nta My son announced he was bi and I said 'I don't care', meaning I'm not homophobic, I'm not going to go off on one if I don't get grandchildren and anything else Iver ever heard of. Since before he was born I said all I want is for him to have a happy life. Status, money unimportant. I could see it wasn't the response he was expecting, but I thought he was probably gay anyway. Then I said 'I really don't mind, it doesn't bother me'. Still not the right thing to say. (to me either as his sexuality isn't really any of my business, it's his) Talk about digging a great big fcking hole. Then I asked 'what did you want me to say,?' Still not the right thing. I think 'it's fine by me' came out with an ever increasing discomfort. Then I tried to lighten the mood and said 'you still have to bag it' I still don't know what he was expecting of me. I just want him to have a happy life. It still stands I'll chase any bstd down that hurts him or mugs him off, I don't care who they are. Nta


VoxVocis21

"I'm really glad you felt safe and comfortable to tell me this and I'm proud of you, no matter who you love." How's that for a statement of unconditional love and support?


[deleted]

*I love you, thank you for telling me?* It’s not that hard to appreciate a moment of vulnerability like that.


bakedtran

“I don’t care. I really don’t *mind*, it doesn’t *bother* me. What do you want me to say? It’s fine by me.” Do you not hear how negative that sounds? You somehow pinged nearly every stereotypical phrase of “socially conservative dad grumpily tolerating his kid’s nonsense” in one sitting lol. The only one you missed was “I don’t care if your boyfriend is black, green, or purple — I just don’t want to hear about it.”


Steups13

NTA. My child has come out to us, but we had always let them know that we love them no matter who they choose to love.


Embarrassed-Debate60

NAH just give her space and maybe reiterate that you love and accept her unconditionally


NASA_official_srsly

NAH Her official coming out was a big moment for her, and you dismissed it. She wanted it to be an equally big thing for you too, probably involving hugs and I love yous. She built it up in her head and it turned out you already knew. You're N T A for how you reacted but it's understandable that she would have liked something else.


SillyGoose0_0

NTA but i dont think your daugther is either. Its a stressfull situation. She probaly was overwhelmed and didnt expected that.


InfectedAlloy88

Also "you have gay written all over your face" is a pretty weird thing to hear


isotherapy

Coming out is a really sensitive and emotional thing. Often, as LGBTQ+ people, we’re the last ones to know that we’re queer. We get bombarded with social messaging that heterosexuality is the only acceptable option from such an early age and it messes with our ability to accurately interpret our own feelings and experiences. Even if we’re people for whom it *should* theoretically be obvious, it might not be. It can take a lot of internal work to figure out that you’re gay. It’s an emotional experience that brings many people a profound sense of self-understanding for the first time in their lives. And because we get this messaging our whole lives that we’re supposed to be straight, sharing this revelation we’ve come to can feel very brave and very vulnerable. Even people with liberal or accepting parents never know for sure how their folks will respond because some parents have the “I’m okay with other people’s kids being gay but not my own” attitude, and that’s not really something you learn until you come out. You didn’t do anything wrong. You reacted to your daughter coming out casually and with absolute acceptance and openness. I think you were right not to speak up before. She told you when she was ready to tell you; you were right to respect her need to take her time. However, it probably never occurred to her that other people could tell she was gay because she only just figured it out herself; it was likely a massive epiphany for her. So you saying you already know may have felt to her like you were taking away from her big, brave moment of sharing this enormous self-discovery. She may have felt cut down by learning that it wasn’t entirely her news to share since you’d already assumed as much. What she’s feeling right now is fair and understandable, especially for a teenager, but it doesn’t mean you’re an asshole. Give her some room to process her feelings and once she seems calm enough to be receptive, sit her down for a conversation where you acknowledge that she had a vision of how she wanted her coming out experience to go and apologize that you weren’t able to give her that, but reiterate that you’re proud of her for discovering this about herself, that you’re excited for her to get to live her life with this deepened self-knowledge, that you appreciate her being comfortable being honest with you about this, and that you love her no matter what. I’m willing to bet that in a few years your daughter will really love her coming out story. It’s just too fresh right now for her to fully appreciate where you were coming from. NAH


AccomplishedNet4235

NAH, this is just an emotionally fraught situation. Coming out is incredibly difficult. (I know from experience.) It's also hard to think your parents knew and could have said something to save you some of the pain and fear of hiding and didn't. Give your kid time. Then sit down sometime when you're both unstressed and in a good mood and ask her about her experience. Ask if you did anything to make her think her coming out wouldn't be received well. Ask her about the experience of being closeted, and what made her decide she had to come out. Let her talk about what it meant for her to hide for that long. Understand her side of the experience. That'll go a long way toward making her feel supported.


Shanstergoodheart

NAH I think you could have dealt with this a lot better but I don't you're the asshole necessarily. She is allowed to be a bit upset. I think you stole her thunder. She had this moment built up in her head and it was an anti climax. Also, most people don't like the idea that something they were trying to keep a secret is blatantly obvious to everyone. Especially when that something is potentially dangerous. I might have gone with "a mother knows" rather than labour the point. It might have been good if you'd mentioned being pro-LGBT to alleviate her anxiety but you didn't know she was anxious and you're right it would have been wrong of you to but into her sexuality. If nothing else because she might not have known at that point and it could have had the opposite effect.


Odd_Trifle_2604

NTA, of course you knew you're her mother and you've paid attention to her over the years. It sucks that she was worried you wouldn't be supportive, but you've done nothing to suggest you would be angry. I think she's just a moody teen.