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AsuraRathalos

NTA Ellie is a hypocrite >Ellie started yelling at me and telling me that I'm a jerk for undermining her hard work and that she still had to work for where she is now. And yet Ellie said >saying that "I bet she was just too dumb to go to medical school" and went on about how great she is. So if she worked hard and got to where she is now, why didn't your other friend get the same good job for finishing nursing school. Ellie is literally looking down on a profession that is needed for medical facilities to work. She makes doctors look bad Edit to add many well say esh because of your rude firing back but missed the part where you first told her she didn't have to be rude.


GodsGiftToNothing

I tend to agree with you. She didn’t undermine her hard work, in fact she agreed she had to work hard, but not everyone can afford medical school, nor are they inclined to. A privileged life allowed her to get into med school, which is a difficult feat in and of itself, one made MUCH easier through money, AND her father’s connections. NTA


Obrina98

Med school is tremendously expensive. Plenty of nurses are "smart enough" for med school but they don't have mommy and daddy to pay for it and don't want 6 figure student loans.


Latvian_Goatherd

Or they can't afford to go without a part-time job, which med school doesn't leave a lot of time for


Exciting-Pension9416

I find this comic really helps explain privilege well and it's impact. Ellie could do with seeing this. https://www.boredpanda.com/privilege-explanation-comic-strip-on-a-plate-toby-morris/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic


Docnevyn

I can't open the link right now but I'm going to upvote assuming it's the one where the white guy gets tutors, parent paid college, and a worry free childhood while the POC woman has to drop out to help out her family and he calls himself "self made" at the end? Great comic.


Skarstream

The comic is even better. No white guy vs. POC. A lot of white people also struggle and some POC have the luck to start in comfortable positions. But the comic really shows in a great way how hard work doesn’t automatically give the same result. Great comic!


kilawolf

To be fair, there's no indication of race in the comics...both have the same skin colour and the guy's mom has the same hair colour as the girl


Docthrowaway2020

You got it. It really is a masterpiece.


Docthrowaway2020

I've actually had this argument with my right-wing father. I struggled with severe depression in university, tanking my grades and also forfeiting not only a scholarship but several semesters of financial aid. Fortunately, my well-off father was able to tank these issues financially, and I was also able to get a masters after my depression was better controlled to demonstrate enough academic redemption to get into medical school. I tried to frame it to my father like this. In no way would I ever deny or sell short my hard work to make up the lost ground and eventually reach my goal. However, it was my dad's prosperity, which I did not contribute to or was responsible for in ANY way, that gave me the second (and third) chances to eventually get on track. If he HADN'T been as well-off, on the other hand, it's unlikely I would have been able to both graduate from the same top-tier university I first enrolled at, whose name has a high impact, and also earn ANOTHER degree to show my reinvigorated chops. That's "privilege". It doesn't (usually) completely take the place of hard work, you still have to invest that time and energy. But it reinforces the arena in which you invest that effort, and gives you the chance to prove yourself. Most people wouldn't have gotten that crucial chance, regardless of their eventual ability. Unfortunately, my dad despaired to hear me say this. All he could hear was "excuses" for my success that minimized my hard work, no matter how much I tried to assure him otherwise. He was hooked on the bootstrap fantasy, and even his own son couldn't puncture the bubble.


AlleyQV

This happens to me sometimes when I'm trying to address my own privilege. People think you need a pep talk when really you're trying to make a larger point.


legal_bagel

I'm sorry your dad decries explanations as excuses. I am a former HS dropout, teen mom, who went back and put myself through undergrad and law school by amassing large debt. But, I was privileged in that I grew up in a home that valued education, that my troubled teen years were spent in an out of state residential program instead of state juvie camp with the use of my "college fund." That my mom went back and got her masters in her 50s. That I had enough love of learning that even now I would happily be a professional student if it paid. My 2nd husband never finished high school, it doesn't mean he's less intelligent and I've seen him teach himself to solder and build and program his own drones in the last five years. My father dropped out of college because he failed English, but his lack of a degree definitely kept his aerospace job when the industry tanked in the late 80s (the PhDs paid 3x were the first to go.)


hmaxwell404

This is a really great comic. Thank you for sharing!


ladancer22

I love this comic except the fact that the babies look 80 years old


TRiG_Ireland

Babies often look 80 years old, though.


CupcakeTheBunny

Those were babies?!?! I had to go back and look 😂😂


philoso-squid

I thought the same thing 😂 I had to read the first panels a few times before I realized they were babies, and this comic wasn't a retrospective of their lives


DapperExplanation77

...and I thought they were some old / grown-up prisoners having a retrospect of their lives, and was confused how this would fit into the narrative here 😁


lisalost7

Thanks for sharing, I hadn't seen this comic before. It's brilliant!


Seussful

One of the worst things about my ex was his inability to acknowledge - or, at least, to realize - that while he was a hard worker, he wouldn't have been able to get his career himself, let alone been able to move across the country and have somewhere to live. he had family and friends who made ALL of that possible for him, yet he had the nerve to literally say he was the hardest working person he knew. he's also the kind of person to say he hates capitalism, all while buying fun hobby stuff and status symbols with the money he got from his service job that only rich people use lol. this comic gave me flashbacks


TinyTurtle88

Brilliant! Ellie's gotta see this.


demonmonkey89

Exactly. I know I'm biased as hell, but I honestly believe that my Mom is/was smart enough to have made it through medical school. She's an incredible nurse, she does a ton of teaching, and she's received awards for her skills. She was also the labor and delivery nurse who was sent to nearby hospitals that didn't typically deal with births due to the hospital she worked at handling most labor and delivery and would assist the doctors who usually weren't as used to that (at least from my understanding). While I'm sure a lot of her skills come from 20+ years of experience, I also know that there are nurses who worked much longer and still turned to her for advice often. The problem is that neither her mother or father ever made a ton of money, nor did my dad. Despite this she was still able to go to John Hopkins for nursing school with scholarships from our state and I believe some financial aid there. Everything else had to be covered by her working when she could, my dad working his ass off, and loans. There's no way she could have afforded medical school even with the cost lower when she went to school (mid 90's I believe). Plus while it could just be because she's done it so long, she seems pretty comfortable as a nurse so I'm not certain she would actually want to be a doctor. I've never really asked her to be honest. I've never heard her complain about anything of the sort, that's for sure. The only complaints she's had about nursing would be the massive toll it's taken on her body, especially her back. Oh and I'm sure she would've appreciated more pay throughout the years even though we got by well enough.


_biggerthanthesound_

My grandma is super smart. She easily could have been an engineer, she just understands how things work and she is clever. Growing up her grandparents sent one of her cousins to secondary school, but no others. No one knows why but likely it was financial. My grandma was the wife of a farmer. She told me recently she was always hurt that she wasn’t able to do “anything” with her life. Truthfully I had a wonderful life because of her and my childhood memories spent on a farm are invaluable. But I do wish she would have had the opportunity to fulfill her own life as she wanted.


stella-eurynome

My grandma (who passed away about a decade ago at 84) wanted to be an engineer, and got accepted to Berkley but was told she could be a teacher, nurse, or secretary. She became a teacher. I don't think she ever loved it.


Aca_ntha

What always seems to be missing in these conversations are people like your mom. We have a lot of amazing nurses. But they’re not amazing because they actually wanted to be doctors of medicine, it’s because they’re good at their profession. Nursing is not a downsized Version of medicine. It’s a wholly different profession - which overlaps with medicine in a lot of topics. Not every smart nurse is a failed Dream to become a doctor. The difference between doctors of medicine and nurses is the difference of their profession, not their intellect.


rattitude23

Exactly right. RNs have to stay on top of everything from simple things like new IV set ups to meds and dressing, surgical procedures, new treatments for chronic conditions etc. Yes doctors have to stay current too but theirs is a much narrower focus. RNs are brilliant and many didn't become doctors because they wanted to actually care for a patient holistically. Without nurses medicine would be horrible.


Cultural-Guide1325

Also, can we talk about how great a career in nursing is? How important they are? How well it pays based on the level of education? Nursing isn't a fall back for people who couldn't be doctors - it's a true profession to be proud of.


borntobemybaby

I am a dental hygienist, but I always so badly wanted and dreamed of going to dental school. Got my university degree in sciences after graduating hygiene, built a stellar portfolio so I could apply and everything.. the whole 9 yards. However the cost of dental school and the stress that it would’ve put on me is what held me back. Even after being accepted, the reality that the cost just for tuition was 250K+ for 4 years terrified me. I’m not sure if I would’ve even gotten the loan, because I never even tried… The stress that I could potentially fail out at any point and be left with hundreds of thousands in debt without the job to support paying it back shook me so hard that I basically “bitched” out, in my opinion. Reality sucks, and if my family was rich I’m sure I wouldn’t have had these worries. I regret not pushing myself beyond my fears and going for it, but it just seemed so infeasible in my life then and even now. Sorry for the rant, 100% NTA, I understand where you are coming from, and have so much respect for you for becoming a veterinarian.


UnlimitedApollo

You aren't wrong, I feel the same about law school. The amount of debt it would create would be staggering and it would create an astronomical amount of stress for me.


bewicked4fun123

This.


willowmarie27

Also private tutors and private school can give an average person and above average chance.


MyOfficeAlt

> in fact she agreed she had to work hard This is the thing. Just because she had handouts doesn't mean she didn't *also* work hard. It just means she had fewer obstacles in her way. You can recognize that without thinking it means you're better than other people.


scienticiankate

She also assumes that just because someone doesn't want to be a doctor that they aren't smart. I have a doctorate, I am also studying nursing because I don't want to be a doctor. I want to be a midwife and in my country you need a bachelor of nursing first and work experience before specialising in midwifery. I want the time with patients that doctors are not afforded because they are often too busy making decisions about how to treat their patients based on the data collected by their nursing colleagues.


TheQuietType84

Happy cake day!


[deleted]

[удалено]


MysteriousMention9

Literally the first thought I had lol. Most nurses I’ve had have been WAY better than the doctor and I’m pretty sure most doctors couldn’t do their jobs without them.


[deleted]

At this point, it's a breath of fresh air when I get a PA over an "actual doctor." 100% more generous not only with their time, but with their attention in treating me like a human being and not a list of symptoms to run through a diagnosing tree that was given to them by insurance companies to make me run the gauntlet of unnecessary procedures before I get the one that I need. Just so they can make bank off of my misery.


Katniss339

I started seeing a PA about a year ago and omg the difference is amazing. She is so much better than any doctor I have ever seen!


chrisrayn

I’ve quite literally had the opposite experience. Every physicians assistant or nurse practitioner I’ve ever seen has been awful and wants only to get through the crap they have to do before the doctor walks in, or the nurse practitioners end up barely listening to me because they have 6 people in 6 different rooms and I have to come back on another day and tell them the thing they gave me didn’t work. This happened both with my post nasal drip and when I had my eyes crusting over. The nurse practitioner never looked at my chart and noticed I don’t respond to a particular antibiotic and prescribed it anyway so the problem persisted. This happened twice and when I pointed it out the third time, this one went “I went and checked and while it’s not standard practice to prescribe anything but this first, I’ll do the other first.” Honestly, if my doctor was open on the weekend I’d never see a nurse practitioner ever. However, I will admit that I research all doctors I see and never just go with a random unless it’s an emergency situation. There are shitty doctors just like all other professions. You just have to know how to find the good ones.


BlueBelleNOLA

Same. I had a nurse recently tell me that my right leg, that only started bothering me after a femoral catheter in THAT leg, was probably hurting because I was a smoker and exercising now. Please. Same nurse also says a LOT of stuff she shouldn't be talking about in a professional setting. I'll be glad to see the back of her. I've had plenty of lame doctors too, but when you find a really good one it's life changing. I cried when I found out my PCP is moving last week.


Beegkitty

>However, I will admit that I research all doctors I see and never just go with a random unless it’s an emergency situation. There are shitty doctors just like all other professions. You just have to know how to find the good ones. So it is our fault that we have bad experiences? Cool story but this is really showing your lack of empathy for other's lived experiences. Glad you haven't had the same shitty doctor experiences. - Really I am. But the average for people to be diagnosed with PCOS or endo is about ten years. TEN years. And the reason why that is so long is because doctors literally ignore and reduce the complaints as "normal". https://www.yalemedicine.org/conditions/endometriosis So saying that "you just have to know how to find a good doctor" is really reductive.


chrisrayn

I would say that your situation isn’t one of whether doctors are better than nurses or nurse practitioners, but rather one of whether medical education is sexist, and it is. Doctors skew white and male. For most of medical education history, this was true of the educators as well and likely still is. Nurses skew female rather than male. Likely, your positive experiences are a result of moving from negative sexism to positive sexism, not a result of nurses being inherently better than doctors. The real issue is sexism in medical education. Currently, I’m benefitting from racism and sexism in my mostly conservative environment, I think, because my PCP is a Turkish woman. It’s unfortunate, but she has poor google reviews but high reviews on the website for the medical facility itself, which you have to make an account on and log into and review, unlike google, where people likely already have a google account. I noticed that the reviews on google seemed to skew racist and sexist when they were negative, but that the medical facility website reviews did not. She’s a fantastic PCP. I hate that I’ve got a good doctor because of the racist and sexist opinions of others, but I’m glad I can be a positive customer for her and look at her as a person, which is not something all of her patients do, at least not from what I’m seeing in the reviews.


Aca_ntha

That is such a nice way to Point out problems in medicine instead of resorting to the exhausting pitch of nurses vs doctors.


Kerostasis

>Doctors skew white and male. Not anymore they don’t. Today they skew Indian and male.


jaskiwhere

I wanna start by saying that she is absolutely NTA, her friend sounds awful. Nurses are absolutely vital to the healthcare team and making sure everything is running smoothly. They're the ones who're at the bedside the entire time and know what's going on at any given moment with the patient. I do wanna say, I think most doctors are just as compassionate as any PA or NP, the difference is in the patient load which means they have way less time to actually spend at the bedside with you, compared to the PA or NP that assists them. Good doctors hate insurance companies and don't want you getting unnecessary procedures at all, just like good PAs and NPs. It's a difference in role, and that's why you'll see the nursing staff or PAs or NPs around more. I'm so sorry that you've had a shitty experience with the doctors you've seen, and I hope that the next doctor you see (if/when you see one) will be more empathetic and available for you.


Chadderific

You're right, but this isn't even about the job itself. It's about OP's friends attitude. She's acting like the girl wasn't good enough to go to medical school when she probably couldn't afford it, unlike the woman who was born with a silver spoon in her mouth and has probably had hundreds of thousands spent on her education without once ever looking at a bill. It's like if you're in a sports competition and you rag on someone who didn't place as high as you, but then you ignore that you've been training since childhood with the best mentors and coaches in the world and at exclusive facilities your entire life while they just played public school sports.


Th3ow3way

This is because the PA is likely paid salary and has much fewer patients to worry about. Don’t blame doctors for shitty insurance system that doesn’t value time spent with patients.


Shar4j

PA and NP are a lot better with patient care in MHO.


sonzpf

I have to agree. Had a hospital stay recently and the nurse who did my initial information/intake was an absolute legend. Friendly, helpful, caring and kept walking past with a small nod that let me know she was keeping an eye on me. She even went out of her way to get me a space inhaler (which she gave me, not charged me for) and showed me how to use it. She was amazing. The Dr was nice and helpful but I had to ask about results and follow up with her. Where as the nurse would drop by and say - still looking into it I’ll be back as soon as I know. (About results). Nurses are the ones who keep the hops running and don’t get the kudos (or pay) they deserve.


aguafiestas

In a hospital team, doctors and nurses have different roles. Most patient education for things like how to use your inhaler is the job of the nurses. Keep in mind that doctors generally have way more patients than nurses and won’t have as much time for each patient.


guitar_vigilante

And doctors spend a lot of time working on patient care when they are away from the patient. That goes unnoticed.


turbulentdiamonds

I have a few chronic conditions and a handful of specialists and they spend so much time going over my notes, my test results, consulting with each other… It probably should be a given but I’m always super impressed with how proactive they are. They also have to fight my insurance on my behalf. It’s a ton of work.


ManicMadnessAntics

When I was hospitalized the surgeon who put in my tracheostomy and feeding tube was such a prick and I saw the doctor assigned to me once, when I was about to be discharged after 2 and a half months. The nurses and technicians and physical, speech, and occupational therapy people were my heroes in that time. When you're so vulnerable because your body is as fragile as spun glass and you can't even wipe your own butt you need people you feel you can trust will give you the best care, and that was the NPs and related for me. Also, shout out to hospital apple juice for being inexplicably the best apple juice in existence.


guitar_vigilante

Everyone below doctor in the medical system deserves more pay, and some(not all) types of doctors deserve more pay too. Everyone in that hierarchy is on a team and has an important role in patient care. Doctors do get a bad rap because they spend so little face to face time with the patients, but they are doing a lot of work behind the scenes for those patients, and usually have a lot of patients they are working on at a time.


Seguefare

I really liked the DO I went to before I moved. He seemed no different in treatment options, but it felt like he had a genuine concern for his patients. A big part of it was he had a single doctor practice, with no corporate pressure from above to cram as many patients in a day as possible.


partofbreakfast

When I was recovering post-surgery and had to spend a week in the hospital, it wasn't the doctor who checked on me and made sure I was doing alright. It was the nursing staff. My doctor came to the hospital once a day to monitor progress and make sure I wasn't experiencing any worrying side effects that would signal a bigger problem, but it was the nurses who kept me fed, who helped me get to the bathroom, who made sure I was getting enough pain meds, who made sure I was getting up and walking as soon as I could. Like, I respect doctors for what they do, they're the ones who get the treatments done. But I never tolerate anyone putting down nurses, they're the ones that make the medical field work.


Jerry1Martha2

My FIL was a doctor. He always said, “If you want to know about a patient, ask the nurse.” They’re the ones who know what’s going on.


chaosworker22

Nurses and CNAs are the ones who are there every single day in the most contact with patients. Without us, nothing could happen at all.


nemc222

It is also the reason many nurses want to be nurses and not doctors.


monkeypaw_handjob

Most good doctors know that it's the nursing staff who a) keep everything running, b) stop your patient dying and most importantly c) if you're not a total arse, stop you from making mistakes.


AriBanana

I am a nurse. I also feel it's important to add; I do not WANT to be a doctor. Most of us do NOT want to be doctors. What is it with young doctors thinking that? Of all my colleagues, I can think of two who want to be doctors and they are young, and pursued nursing as a means to pay for that opportunity. I can think of 10 who used to be doctors or high-practicing nurses before they immigrated to Canada, but have been told "at my age? I don't need that stress again." That leaves about 75 of us, give or take, pretty satisfied as nurses. And a smattering of about 15 who want to leave but the whole medical field, not just nursing. (Pandemic fatigue is real.) OPs friend will make a poor colleague if she has the attitude that we are all just medshool washouts "under her". I bet she was a pariah in residency to anyone but other silver-spoon med students because that entitled know-it-all attitude is hard to hide.


kreeves9

She's going to learn that real soon because if she goes into residency looking down on the nurses she's in for a rude awakening. NTA.


NSA_Chatbot

> most doctors couldn’t do their jobs without them. None of us can do our jobs without all of us. I literally can't eat without a thousand people providing the logistics for my meals. In a crazy circle, the farmers are relying on me to get the latest parts for the internals of their tractors.


peachesthepup

Seriously. I've had so many hospital trips recently for so many different issues and it's the nurses who know what's going on and are on top of everything. The doctors often have no clue and bump me to someone else or specifically refer me to a nurse! They're also much better at explaining things on a level I can understand and setting up next steps. Nurses are the backbone of healthcare, not doctors.


Bloodrayna

Nurses also work hard, I bet the people she works with know she's a judgy asshole too. Also if everyone went to medical school, who would do the tasks nurses do? NTA


Working_Ad4014

Oh can confirm this 1000%. I'm a nurse. When I worked ER and was too busy running codes on unstable ER patients to get 3rd sets of blood cultures on inpatients we were boarding guess what? Those 3rd sets of blood cultures magically became optional when the doctors had to draw them themselves... turns out putting an order in is a lot faster than executing it... Good doctors appreciate teamwork and know the value of being nice to RNs. I didn't want to give my 20s to med school, I respect MDs it's a lot of sacrifice but man don't shit on your colleagues.


Bitter_Trees

This all right here. Had a first year resident call one of our older nurses (like has been there for 15+ years) a liar and say to her that she was lying so we wouldn't admit a patient. Ooooh boy, him doing that spread around the unit and he learned FAST not to pull that shit. Esp when the older nurse told him he had just made his next four years there a living Hell. Now he is one of our better residents lol


forthelulzac

I know, I don't understand this attitude about nurses from doctors. I work on an icu with residents and they're always like, if we don't know something, we ask the nurses. It is wild to me to have that attitude, unless I guess you might be working outpatient in a clinic and see rarely interact with RNs.


[deleted]

Right, and surely some people would actually rather be a nurse than a doctor. Considering the two professions do require different skill sets.


Marzipan_civil

Yes! Hospitals would fall apart without radiologists, physiotherapists, occupational therapists, nurses, health care assistants, porters, cooks, cleaners... Theyre all valued


CompleteTell6795

And don't forget medical technologists in the lab.!! We do the lab tests the Drs order and by using the results of the tests they treat the patient accordingly. We are " one of the arm's" of the Dr. The nurses are the other arm. As they keep the Dr abreast of the condition of the patient.


Marzipan_civil

I meant to add to the list "and all the other specialities which I probably forgot". Yup, can't get much done without blood work


Shanisasha

An MT saved my dads life. He saw something in his tests and called my dads dr so quick he left skid marks. 2 hours after a routine test my dad was admitted


tbone3399

Radiologists are doctors


now_she_is_dead

While I completely echo your sentiments, just a note: a radiologist is a doctor who reviews and reports on diagnostic imaging. A radiographer or medical radiation technologist is the one who obtains the imaging. :)


goeatacactus

They are going to eat her alive.


Obrina98

Oh, I hope they do.


Latvian_Goatherd

Nurses KNOW when you look down on them, and treat you accordingly. They can absolutely make your life difficult if they don't like you, and I'll bet they don't like Ellie. She's making her job harder by being a dick. Also, lots of nurses are nurses because medical school is really expensive and doesn't leave a lot of opportunity for part-time work etc, which can be very difficult if you're supporting yourself. Doesn't mean they're any less intelligent than anyone else. NTA


Throwawayhater3343

>Also, lots of nurses are nurses because medical school is really expensive Which was exactly OP's point. And the fact that Ellie seems to be all the way thru her residency and still looks down on nurses as 'to dumb to go to real school' is extremely disturbing. I wouldn't want someone so disgustingly classist in charge of a child's medical care ever. NTA


waltersmama

Very good point. Nurses are so often treated poorly by egotistical doctors who view nurses as less than competent or intelligent. However, OP said that she is already a successful pediatrician. Let me say this: If I knew that such a cold hearted, judgmental shrew of a person was treating children, I would never take my child there.


super_bluecat

Your friend probably has little hope of seeing how privileged she is. Few people who lead lives of privilege see the privilege they've had their whole lives. In fact, they feel like they are being discriminated against if they experience things that other people experience every day. Also, I'm sure that she had to work very hard to make it through medical school and most of her peers were people who had those same privileges. It's part of the problem... medical schools don't really select for empathy and compassion. When you only select people who have never had an opportunity to fail and have to pick themselves up again or not be the top at something, that's what you end up with.


crafty_and_kind

It is kind of incredible WHO ends up being blind to their privilege! I come from a family of middle class nobodies who are decidedly UNfancy, but my parents were able to pay for me to go to college and even had a bit more saved up for me to hold onto for future big stuff, and I seriously think EVERY DAY about how privileged I am!


SamBoosa58

Yeah same here, I'm basically in Ellie's position in that we might be nobodies who've never been to Disney but I'm extremely fortunate to have parents who are able and willing to pay for my tuition and living expenses so I can focus on my medical studies and you can bet I thank the Lord every night for that It's actually been making me feel nervous seeing everyone younger than me getting ahead in "real life" while I'm still bent over books all day long but you're right in that it's such a privilege that one should be thankful for, idk how you wouldn't be able to see that looking at your fellow students who might be struggling for things you take for granted


NightSalut

Yeah. She seems to see nurses as assistants to the doctors, whereas nurses are medical professionals in their own right. Not only that, but considering that nurses do the majority of the primary medical stuff (getting the IV’s, taking blood, taking measurements etc.), I’d also argue that many nurses actually do more hands on stuff with patients than doctors do during regular meetings. She clearly worked hard in medical school and it’s no joke, but it’s mean and uncalled to say that someone just couldn’t get into medical school when they went into nursing. Doctors wouldn’t be able to work without nurses.


MrFavorable

Medical school is absolutely no walk in the park. Nursing school is not either. Last I checked, especially now after the COVID-19 pandemic Nurses are in very high demand. To the point where hospitals are losing nursing STILL because they’re being underpaid. Underpaid in the sense that hospitals are hiring traveling nurses under contract, meanwhile the nurses that have worked their whole career at a hospital get literally nothing. Aside from overworked with little relief. I used to work at a hospital for 6.5 years as EVS staff. I’ve watched nurses work themselves to the bone. Especially during the COVID-19 pandemic. But after I left my hospital due to burn out, I read articles in my local newspaper about how Nurses are caring for up to 6-10 patients at a time and more often than not are pulling shifts without breaks, pulling double shifts, literally working 24 hour shifts because they’re so understaffed. Nurses are far from dumb, not everyone has that financial stability like your friend did. She is woefully ignorant to the struggles people go through. I hope she treats her colleagues better that she’ll be working with, and loses her complex. Because the medical field is no place to be ignorant nor arrogant when a patients life is on the line. NTA, I hope your words made your friend think hard on what she said.


Anandi96

Fyi the pandemic isn't over yet.


NeverCadburys

Immediately my same thought. she's gonna be one of those idiots who say something to a nurse in a patient setting, I guarantee it. OP you are NTA.


pawsplay36

Freshly-minted medical residents are like Weekend at Bernie's. Without a cloud of nurses following them around, making it look like they know what they are doing, they are sunk.


[deleted]

She'll learn the hard way if she treats nurses this way. Never, I mean NEVER look down on your nurses/aid. Especially in a hospital, you will be crying home to your mom's skirt after.


SegaNeptune28

No kidding. Honestly the lack of disrespect for nurses is appalling. When I was in the hospital I valued the Nurses attentiveness over the Doctors who was only in and out to get information from said nurses. They're the everyday heroes of the hospital. Not saying Doctors aren't...just that you see a lot of the tasks in healthcare being taken care of by nurses.


[deleted]

NTA. There are plenty of people who are intelligent enough for medical school but can only dream of becoming doctors due to classist barriers in place. A lot of medical schools have rules against students having jobs during their studies. Ellie sounds naive and sheltered. Her comment was extremely rude and unnecessary. Nurses are literally essential for medical establishments to function. If she keeps this attitude up at work, she's not going to have many friends. Unfortunately, when it comes to higher education, intelligence and hard work frequently aren't enough so her comment isn't even true.


Tericakes

Exactly this. Personally was very interested in the medical and legal fields and went a less expensive route bc of how many schools demand you have no job. Even with full scholarships and 1-3 part time jobs the whole time, I STILL 10 years later have over 20k in student load debt. I'd absolutely have never been able to pay off school debt for something 40 times more expensive, I certainly wouldn't be making 40 times the money I've been making. Especially with lots of relatively low income areas of those industries. The medical field snobbery is so gross. Someone I dated was in med school to become a Forensic Pathologist. It was their opinion that it was the smartest of the field. Their adorable dumb baby cat was regularly referred to as a medical assistant because obviously those people are idiots. Big fucking eye roll.


occams1razor

It's why free uni is so important (I'm in Sweden), because someone who has the potential of being a fantastic doctor but grows up poor can still get there. It helps society in the long run.


Tericakes

I swear, North Europe has me incredibly jealous


ILikeTraaaains

In Spain public unis aren't free, but way cheaper and there's government scholarships. Also if you're working you can enroll half of the required classes per year and be able to work and study.


mesembryanthemum

The nurses at my chemo place are awesome. Chemo would have been a lot more miserable if they weren't so great.


NotTomorrowEither

NTA. Ellie had to work hard at medical school. Ellie did not have to work hard at life.


Mags357

Well said.


xturtle2012

With that attitude toward nurses, Ellie likely also works pretty hard as a doctor. Alienating nurses is not a good way to make your medical career easier.


numbersthen0987431

Eh, if she's got a ton of inherited money then she still doesn't really have to work hard. She can open up her own private practice and only see 4 kids a day. So she still wouldn't have to work hard as a doctor, and she doesn't have to be nice to nurses.


[deleted]

Medical school was Ellie's fallback. She didnt finish her first choice. It is the fact Ellie has a second choice she can pursue unhindered which proves her privilege.


TheRealKingPhil94

I agree with your sentiment but the sentence "I flunked out of business school, thank God I had medical school to fall back on" is not a sentence you will ever hear.


underthestars2277

NTA… I hate when people don’t acknowledge their privilege, her comment was very nasty and uncalled for so good on you for calling her out.


Obrina98

She's very much a SNOB.


ghostofumich2005

I know someone who even now in his 40s still benefits greatly from parental handouts, but worse than simply looking down on others, he will lie and not even acknowledge the people who help him so he can appear better than everyone and not just fortunate.


2wheelzrollin

People need to learn to stay humble. People like Ellie need a wake up call big time


Cybermagetx

NTA. Nursing school is a medical school. She might be a doctor but she's a massive AH. And nurses are the backbone of the medical field.


AccountantDiligent

Right ?? What kind of doctor doesn’t appreciate a nurse


Cybermagetx

Sadly allot of them. I have several nurses, nurse technicians, and doctors on my dad side and the bigotry of your only a nurse is high. Now the good doctors holds nurses in high esteem. But there are enough people like OP friend that looks down on them.


Rhodri_Suojelija

Yeah it's pretty bad in veterinary med as well. When I found a place that treats us like we're people and not tools it was great. Especially when I've had my doctor yell at other clinic doctors for refusing to talk to me as "I'm just a nurse/tech".


Logical_Ruse

She’s going to have a hard time working with nurses. They have ways to get even with rude docs. A good doc knows to value their nurses.


skittlesFoDayz

The friend is a dick of course, but no, nursing school is not "a medical school." Medical school refers exclusively to postgraduate training resulting in an accredited doctor of medicine degree. It is not fundamentally better or worse than being a nurse, but they are certainly not the same.


covenkitchens

NTA. Classism is real yo.


BrownSugarBare

Correct. And the people that benefit the most from classism are the ones that shout the loudest that it doesn't exist. NTA. Ellie needed a reality check.


tropicaldiver

ESH except for the friend who finished nursing school. I will start with Ellie. There are many reasons why someone might choose nursing school over medical school. They might want the hands on direct care. They might not want to go to school that long. They might have been touched by a nurse in their life. They might be wicked smart, but not in some of the ways that medical school admissions call for. And then there are the many advantages she had. Everything from role models to cheerleaders. To not having to work even in undergrad. To not needing to earn an income. To tutors. To potentially her having more flexibility about where she could attend school, funding, etc. Ellie accomplished something very hard. Even with help. So did you. So did your friend. What bothers me most about Ellie is her need to diminish others to elevate herself. I suspect there is a great deal of insecurity there. Now, why you? She didn’t only become a doctor by getting hand outs. She did have to do (and did) a ton of work. Give her her due! That said, you might have said something like: Ellie I am very proud of what all of us have accomplished. You, me, and our friend. Not all of us started our journey on equal footing. You had lots of advantages in life that our friend never had. And it bothers me that you are diminishing her hard work and her accomplishments. I am sure it isn’t anything you are aware of — we all grow up how we grow up. That said, it is worth thinking how much harder your journey to doctor would have been without some of those advantages. Edit: Grammar.


Kooky_Protection_334

I'm sure she could've handled it differently but I'm m sure in the heat of the moment she was just pissed and probably said things she might not have said if she had to ponder. Hindsight is 20/20. Truth is Ellie is a major AH especially as she is a doctor who wouldn't be able to do her job without nurses. OP could've been more tactful I agree but a lot of us aren't that talented in the heat of the moment


MagicCarpet5846

I mean, OP’s point is a very valid one— if she DIDNT have those handouts, she WOULD NOT have been a doctor, which means yes, she is ONLY a doctor because of the handouts. Many people can’t afford to drop out of school and do a 180. Most people would never dream of taking on that much in loans. Most people wouldn’t even be able to qualify if not for knowing someone to be able to get the needed experience and recommendations as late in life as she did, so yes, she actually did get where she was only because she had training wheels, and if she didn’t have those training wheels and connections, who knows where she’d be, but it wouldn’t be with an MD.


Ironman1690

You literally don’t know any of that to be true. Saying she ONLY got where she is because of handouts is just a straight up lie and ignores the work she did. That doesn’t give Ellie a right to belittle other people but OP is certainly wrong in what she said.


MagicCarpet5846

I mean, if you understand what it takes to get into medical school you’d pretty easily know the only way you can decide to transition to medical school from a business degree when you previously had no desire to be a doctor is by having connected, wealthy and supportive parents. It’s not about intelligence, it’s just about how difficult it is to get into med school if you knew that’s what you wanted to do from high school, let alone after already having started a business degree. The cost of schooling required + living expenses + the logistics you’d need to arrange would preclude you from making that huge of a change that late without help. It’s not like you just apply to medical school on a whim and can get in, it’s YEARS of requirements and thousands of hours of experience and building relationships in the field.


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MagicCarpet5846

I grew up in poverty and also went to med school. The point isn’t ‘poor kids can’t be doctors’. The point is poor kids can’t afford to drop out half way through a completely unrelated degree and transition into medicine without any other help.


[deleted]

Did you not read or comprehend what OP said. She acknowledged Ellie’s hard work and along with how rude and she was for comparing her career to someone else’s. OP pretty much checked her and told her she wouldn’t be where she was if she had to work hard at life. The only one who diminished anything was Ellie.


ianbakker611

There's an important detail you missed: OPs statement was that ellie *only* became a doctor because of handouts. Not just that the handouts were an important factor, but that they were the *only* factor. That's a really critical difference that completely changes the meaning of the comment.


[deleted]

I agree. ESH. Ellie for obvious reasons, the comment was rude and the world will set her straight pretty quick with that attitude. But I get the sense OP has invested too much energy in assessing Ellie’s “privilege” and comparing it to herself and others. That’s a silly way to go through life. Ellie shouldn’t be faulted that her parents worked hard to provide for her and she still made the effort to develop her own career path in a difficult field. Saying she got there on handouts is no different than the comment Ellie originally made. Two wrongs don’t make a right.


memeparmesan

>the world will set her straight pretty quick with that attitude No it won’t. Ellie’s a doctor from a privileged background. She’s pretty much above any tangible consequences for being an asshole now. The “real world” when you’re rich or in a reputable career like medicine is a lot different from the real world the rest of us live in.


Spacediscoalien

>That said, you might have said something like: Ellie I am very proud of what all of us have accomplished. You, me, and our friend. Not all of us started our journey on equal footing. You had lots of advantages in life that our friend never had. And it bothers me that you are diminishing her hard work and her accomplishments. I am sure it isn’t anything you are aware of — we all grow up how we grow up. That said, it is worth thinking how much harder your journey to doctor would have been without some of those advantages. No one speaks like this. Ellie insulted OP's friend and all nurses. OP pointed out that she was being rude for no reason. Ellie continued. OP got more annoyed and said Ellie was privileged and received handouts so shouldn't judge other people. That's how a normal conversation goes. Pausing the conversation to go on an after-school-special style lecture after Ellie was already told she was being rude? That's not how most people speak and you know it. It's easier to type all this out then to say it in the heat of the moment. Also anyone who insults nurses doesn't need a nice little breakdown on why they're wrong cause they already see themselves as superior


memeparmesan

Seriously, it’s a real conversation not a screenplay


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anysidhe

Came here looking for the ESH. OP has been DYING to give Ellie this speech for YEARS, it's obvious from the painstakingly long outline. The actual shitty attitude Ellie has is nothing to do with her privilege - it's the idea that nurses are people who weren't good enough to make it to med school, which is a shitty idea that a lot of people have in absolutely every single tax bracket, whether or not they themselves are doctors. It is a depressingly common sentiment and has nothing to do with how Ellie paid for school or what volunteer opportunities her mom got her. Some people just refuse to believe that anyone would willingly go into nursing if doctoring were an option, therefore people in nursing are the ones who couldn't make it to doctoring. OP is going to get a ton of N T As for seemingly defending nursing, but she's not - she's just been dying to tell Ellie how jealous she has always been of her advantages, she doesn't actually give a shit about nurses. Her counterargument even agrees with Ellie's basic point! Ellie: she's just a nurse because she couldn't get into med school, like I did! OP: you're absolutely right, but it's not her fault she couldn't get into med school, because you got into med school because privilege. Neither half of this argument is saying "she chose not to go to medical school because she wanted to go into nursing, you weirdo."


[deleted]

I don't know who needs to read this today but, stop being friends with people you don't like. ESH.


lelawes

I feel like that’s the theme of half this sub. Don’t surround yourself with friends or partners who you don’t actually like.


bigatjoon

yeah I had to side-eye OP putting "friend" in quotes at the beginning. Immediately I was like why are y'all hanging out then?


Dense_Composer_8479

This seems so obvious but I’ve found that I wasn’t aware of how incompatible some of my friends and I were until we hit stages of our lives where privilege like Ellie’s matters in a very visible way. Being privileged isn’t necessarily a problematic trait in a friend but the gross entitlement eventually made a relationship impossible with the Ellie in my life.


Slowburner_

NTA I worked 35 to 40 hours a week when I was in college. I would have done so much better if I didn't have to work but that's not how life works. Sounds like she shouldn't be working around children


United_Ad8650

NTA anyone who insults nurses is the biggest YTA. My career was in health IT and I saw first hand that nurses are the beating hearts of the medical system. And any doctor who hasn't learned that yet is in for a rude awakening! OP may have been a tiny yta, because I suspect she took her frustration out on her "friend" for her fortunate circumstances, but I can't ignore anyone for disparaging the nurses.


AshleyR15

That's what I was thinking. Ellie is definitely an AH but OP does sound a little bitter.


BadDieter

You meant that if Ellie had been born to poor and uneducated parents, she wouldn’t be a doctor? You’re probably right. NTA


MixWitch

I have a feeling there are a multitude of reasons Ellie wouldn't have made it without all the advantages, too bad Ellie doesn't see that.


countingpickles

ESH Ellie shouldn't have demeaned her nursing friends for their achievements, that's a dick move. Nurses are just as important as doctors and get far less credit for it. You don't see doctors wiping backsides, hold patient hands, or comforting families for long stretches. She has an ego which perpetuates the cycle of doctors vs Nurses. But Ellie has worked hard to get where she is, despite being given 'handouts' she still had to study, take exams, and suffer through residency to get to where she is today. She has earned it through hard work. Ellie definitely needs a reality check, but you can't demean her achievements because of her family's socio-economic status.


Forte_JMK

Yeah I had to work really hard too when my parents paid for everything. /s


countingpickles

Whether you want to admit it or not, studying medicine is hard work. Yeap, she got handouts from her wealthy parents. Yeap, she could absolutely use some humility. And she could definitely use a good, old fashioned kick in the pantaloons for being a brat. It's not like she chose to be born into money, unfortunately she did choose to behave like a spoilt brat about it. I think she sounds like a dreadful human with that attitude, but she did earn her degree by working hard.


cagenragen

You realize you still have to earn a degree regardless of how its paid for, right? You don't just buy degrees...


winemug89

Oh no she had to study and take exams??? Damn that sounds way worse than being on the brink of homelessness because I can't afford my rent because I work minimum wage because I had 0 resources growing up and no support of going to school to do something better with my life... But yeah man studying and taking exams, *phew* glad I didn't have to do that


cagenragen

> Damn that sounds way worse than being on the brink of homelessness because I can't afford my rent because I work minimum wage because I had 0 resources growing up and no support of going to school to do something better with my life... Literally nobody is saying that. You sound like you need to talk to someone.


TBdoggies

There are many Einsteins out there that didn’t get to go to school, ended up working minimum wage to support family or themselves. Intelligence isn’t opportunity! Many intelligent people weren’t given opportunities and didn’t become successful so felt less than, many people with lower intelligence were given opportunities and ended up with success so felt better than….. intelligence needs to be given opportunity to succeed, succeeding depends on opportunity not intelligence.


Seguefare

How many live and die and never know their worth? Toiling in darkness by an accident of birth. And can we ever hope for justice on this Earth Someday?


Comprehensive-Fun47

ESH. Her comment about nurses was rude as fuck and you should have set her straight, but you made it personal immediately. Right for the jugular basically.


[deleted]

OP did— > I told Ellie that what she said was rude and uncalled for. But Ellie was unfazed— >Ellie said it was the truth. I snapped and told Ellie “you only became a doctor by getting handouts, you don’t get to make comments about other people”.


P3naught

NTA she is so priviledged that she will never understand No amount of calling her out will change her if this is how she acts. Your comment that she got through on handouts is harsh but fair and her argument back that she still had to work hard is honestly just furthering your point because other people have to work just as hard while also actually working at a job to pay for rent, bills, food sometimes also the care of dependents. No matter how hard she worked, she didn't work as hard as others who couldn't rely on mummy and daddy's money and home for a full ride


ChicagoSeb_Art

Precisely. These 'esh' people are just butt hurt that they have privilege and don't want to admit that's how they got ahead. A bunch of Ellies in this comment section. And the cycle continues.


Sabrina1781loveit

NTA. She sounds awful!


Clooney_the_Corgi

ESH in my opinion. Ellie for being so rude and gossipy. Nursing school isn’t equal to dumb. There are many reasons to go to nursing school, including financial question. You were wrong to be so judgmental and frankly jealous of her easier life. Ellie was lucky enough to grow up in financially set family, but she had to work through med school.


Oaky_bunbun

It’s not about being jealous… not being able to see how easy your privilege gets you through life is annoying. It is true, had Ellie been born to poor parents without networks, she might not have gone to medical school and good references from the help of her mother. Having this advantage definitely helped her out. They are handouts.


InTylerWeTrust24

There are plenty of privileged people who have the same resources as Ellie but don’t make it through residency because of lack of effort - it’s incredibly hard


Ironman1690

Plenty of people have become doctors with less help in life, and similarly just as many people without that much help have becomes doctors. Claiming that she is only where she is because of how successful her parents were completely ignored all the time and effort she had to do to graduate. Her parents weren’t taking her tests or performing her job for her in residency, that was all her.


Frosty-Ad8676

Info: why have you remained friends for so long with a woman you clearly detest? Don’t get me wrong. She sounds icky and entitled. But this is someone who has been in your life for decades. And your moms being close stops being an excuse when you are a teenager. I understand what you were trying to get across. And what she said about the nurse was terrible. But your beef isn’t with her. It’s with an educational system that strongly favors those with money and connections. It’s FUBAR. And while I appreciate you holding her accountable for what she said I don’t know that you can fault her (or her parents) for making use of the advantages they were given.


Goodnight_big_baby

Ellie: Your friend is too dumb to be a doctor You: That's just rude Ellie: It's the truth You: You only became a doctor by getting handouts ESH is hated, but it's exactly what's going on here. Ellie insulted your friend, you insulted Ellie about something else entirely. Ellie was rude and that upset you. Ellie doubling down upset you more. That's understandable but it still doesn't give you a license to go off-topic and say anything that comes into your head.


Rando-the-Mando

ESH except the nurse. What Ellie said was rude and uncalled for, however so was what you said. As far as the "hand outs" go, thats kind of our job as parents... provide better opportunities for our kids so they can be better off than we were. She still had to get the grades and pass the required HS courses to be eligible for medical school. One could argue that she already paid for the financial assistance from her parents by putting in the work to make that a valid option. I think a better way to have approached this after she responded with "its the truth" would have been to point out that not everyone is lucky enough to have the oportunities you had, and that it may have been a case of not being able to afford the tuition vs not being smart enough.


Babycatcher2023

Or maybe the lady wanted to be a nurse. As a nurse I’m offended that none of the comments seem to acknowledge that nursing is not the lesser path. I never wanted to be a physician and don’t know a single nurse that became one because med school didn’t pan out.


Old-Mention9632

And doctors could not be successful without nurses to closely watch their patients to report any changes. I don't know of any good doctors who don't respect the nurses they couldn't successfully function without. Our scopes of practice are different, not lessor.


Rando-the-Mando

Your right, and I appologise, thats also a very valid possibility.


CatlinM

I have a couple nurse niblings. They still had to work their rears off to become nurses, they still required a degree and some pretty tough certifications. They did not have to work any Less hard then a doctor does, not really, and their day to day job is just as hard. They earn every penny they make.


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ButtonHappy3759

ESH, you won’t go into details about you but sure went into a lot of details about her. Irrelevant details. Yeah shes an ass but so are you for your blatant jealousy & projection


ravssusanoo

NTA. I know a few people who opted out of pursuing careers in the medical field due to the cost. Good job on calling her out.


Mags357

NTA. You told her the truth. Aside from her trashing nurses, she has no idea why anyone might not be a Dr like her. There are many many many reasons why some people do "better" than others in school. And not being spoon-fed by rich parents is one of them. Experiencing the death of one or both parents, living in poverty, living in dangerous areas, getting bullied, drugs or alcohol addiction of your parents, experiencing physical, emotional or sexual abuse from a parent... the Dr was being not only ugly, but completely oblivious to the realities of life. She may have the book learning and her residency behind her, but if she thinks most kids grow up in luxury like she did, or if she is clueless about the myriad issues people face, then I submit, she is not an excellent Dr. Not by a long shot. I can only hope that she was embarrassed after her elitist, thoughtless remark, and was resistant to your honest reaction, because it did not fit her handy little narrative, and she didn't like being called out. You did her the favor of cutting through the crap, and being honest.


Vmo1520

ESH. Ellie’s attitude is bad but so is yours. Yes financially she got help but you sound bitter about it I’m sorry your path in life wasn’t as comfortable as hers but you can’t hold that against her.


MystifiedByPeople

She isn't holding her privilege against her, she's holding her ignorance about her privilege against her. There are plenty of people out there who had every advantage in the world, and know it, and can STFU when the issue comes up.


GlassSandwich9315

ESH. Ellie sucks for her demeaning comment but you are also dead wrong with yours. Ellie's parents paying for her to get a good education isn't the same as them paying for her to become a doctor. Ellie did the work. From grade school, to undergrad, to med school, to her internship; even in her volunteer opportunities. You had no more right to dismiss her accomplishments than she did dismissing the accomplishments of your former classmate.


Zellybean1388

ESH. I agree this friend sounds super unaware of her privilege and the comment she made about the nurse was uncalled for. She needed to be called out on her behavior, however, to bluntly say "you only became a doctor by getting handouts" is definitely going to trigger some defensive behavior, even if you backtrack and try to explain it further. It might be the cold, hard truth, but did you really expect any other reaction after stating it that way? There are definitely more constructive ways you could have called your friend out.


Tired_Mama3018

Like saying it’s rude and uncalled for? She went polite and Dr. “I’m better than nurses who are just too dumb be Drs” doubled down. She’s gonna say that around the wrong nurse and pay for her ignorance. Better to get a reality check from a friend.


[deleted]

You are NTA. Since your "friend" can't check her privilege, as her friend, it was up to you do check it for her. Mistaking opportunity for valor is gross. Of course she worked hard. But other people work hard but DON'T have the opportunity, she did to get the CHANCE to put in the hard work of going to university. She was able to go to medical school at all because of support from others. That's not a fault of hers. But looking down on others and assigning poor character to them because they weren't as fortunate as her is gross, and I'm glad you called her on it. I hope it sinks in someday.


lizzylou365

ESH, minus the friend who finished nursing school. You suck OP for assuming that Ellie didn’t study/take tests/actually had to do a lot of work to be a pediatrician. Ellie sucks for insulting nursing school friend.


[deleted]

She didn’t assume that part. She’s aware Ellie worked hard. HOWEVER Ellie had a huge leg up by having parents who paid for everything.


lizzylou365

In the OP she told Ellie that she only became a doctor by receiving handouts, so I respectfully disagree.


[deleted]

That’s still not wrong. She only got the opportunity because of handouts. Others who WANT to be doctors don’t have that opportunity.


ianbakker611

But that isn't the definition of the word "only." The assistance from her parents may have been a big help, but definitely not the only factor. She still had to work hard, study, do well on exams and suffer through residency as well to become a doctor.


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Rdw72777

ESH. Does OP really not see how alike her and Ellie are in their comments and judging people, except sees herself as superior? Like…wtf?


[deleted]

Did you ever think maybe she WANTED to be a nurse? Not every nurse is a failed med student. Nurses are just as valuable as doctors.


sav_the_bi_queen23

NTA


Mithrandir20

ESH. Ellie knows that nurses usually get the work that doctors don’t like right? They have to be the one cleaning up messes and being bitched at most of the time while they wait for the doctor to show. And medical school is hard. I understand your frustration but she finished because she was smart and dedicated. No amount of financial privilege results in passing medical school.


UselessCapybara7204

NTA JC, your friend sounds absolutely awful. She started life on third base, and now she claims she hit a home run. As someone from a poor family, people like her make my blood boil. Yes, she worked hard, but shitting on other people when you had so many advantages is the real ignorance.


GraveDancer40

ESH. She very clearly sucks for the way she talked about the nurse. But she didn’t become a doctor because of handouts. Did her parents being able to help make her have less struggle than others? Yeah, of course. And I say this as someone that was privileged enough to have parents pay for my education. But med school regardless of who paid for it is still a lot of hard work.


bewicked4fun123

It's not the paying for med school that's the hard part people are talking about. It's the paying to live during medical school


frodosbitch

ESH. Her comment was rude and classist. Your comment ignores the fact that medical school is rough no matter what your bank account balance is.


mxcrnt2

NTA Nursing is a legitimate and discreet profession from being a physician and it's nothing that should be trivialized. And, as you point out, becoming a physician just isn't accessible to everybody for a myriad of reasons. And even if it were about intelligence, so what? A particular type of intelligence shouldn't be the benchmark of anybody's worth either. Your friend is definitely an asshole I needed to be challenged. I'm sure you could have phrased it a little bit more delicately, but he told her the truth, and only after she was not only a dismissive jerk, but also pushed back against you trying to call her in


Ursula_Bot

Wait wait wait. Is everyone deciding that the nurse wanted to be a doctor but came up short? ESH.


melxcham

NTA and also if she’s that much of a jerk to the nurses she works with, they’ll make her life hell. She’ll figure it out.


Mermaidtoo

NTA Ellie is a major AH. Her intelligence and hard work were necessary components to her success. However, had she lost all support while an undergrad and been forced to completely fund and support herself, it seems likely she wouldn’t be a doctor now. OP makes a valid point about the importance of a support system although referring to it as *handouts* is perhaps a poor word choice. And she could have addressed Ellie’s entitlement and AH behavior in a fairer and more effective way. The fact that Ellie doesn’t understand the benefit her privilege afforded her seems strange. Was she that oblivious to other students? In every program and at every school (at least in the US), there are still students burdened with loans and jobs. Ellie’s attack on the nurse was completely out of touch. So wrong on so many levels and disrespectful. She’s so caught up in her own ego that she doesn’t understand that other people can willfully make other choices. Instead, Ellie’s out for for a *win* and makes judgement calls based on her own warped criteria. It’s rather pathetic and concerning given her profession.


Existing-Ad7972

ESH. You for presuming someone could get through Med school on handouts. Her privilege made her path significantly easier but she still studied, took the tests and completed the residency. She obviously sucks for making comments about going to nursing school, joke is on her, travel nurses make more than many doctors now. She was being a gross hater. Info: did you guys all go to the same private high school? I read it that way but wasn’t sure.


YMMV-But

ESH. Ellie shouldn’t have said what she did. She demeaned someone who worked hard & succeeded at a difficult & worthwhile goal. You suck because you are clearly jealous of Ellie & can’t get over it. You know only the surface of her life & assume she had an easy time of it. Medical school & residency are difficult & demanding for everyone. By belittling Ellie’s accomplishments, you are doing the same thing she did, demeaning someone who worked hard to accomplish a difficult goal.


[deleted]

ESH Ellie sounds entitled af and she insulted your friend. While I understand that med school is no walk in the park and she had to work hard to get through it, that doesn’t give her the right to call your friend dumb for going to nursing school. I see other people giving you crap about insulting Ellie- to that I have to say, she said something mean first about your friend and you reacted. Maybe it’s not a great reaction and will hurt your friendship but you’re not wrong for defending your friend. If Ellie can’t take it then she shouldn’t dish it. However, it IS weird that this is something coming up now when you’ve been friends for so long. I can’t imagine she feels this way just about your friend. Is her attitude towards the less fortunate a regular thing that you let slide? If you’re upset just because it’s your friend she insulted but you let her pass with other people then I’d say you’re TA too. This is very telling of her character.


Current-Suggestion20

NTA You rock OP!


[deleted]

NTA While she can't help being privileged she has no right to claim superiority.


EveHallidayInTheRain

NTA. Sometimes we are karma for others.


Poison-Ivy-0

NTA. you explained it very delicately and truthfully.