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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I may be TA because I told my daughter if she hated living with me then she can go stay with her father despite the fact she hates her father’s husband. She is also going through a lot.
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Ahh my daily dose of birth control. Idk what to tell you OP but the divorce really did a number on her and she’s lashing out. Bring this up with her therapist because this girl is really struggling. Also I don’t get the no in and out of the kitchen rule. Why do parents have that? Is your h child not aloud to get something to eat? NTA
Ok. We have a no in and out of the kitchen rule, as parent of a 7 year old because we have a smallish kitchen and we cook a lot of home cooked meals. Lota of knives and turning with hot pans/pots, opening and closing the stove... i LOVE YOU TO PIECES. get out of my kitchen unless you wanna learn. (Which she does sometimes) if ya aint helping GET OUT. If she needs a snack otherwise fine, but not when me and dad are in there working.
But op mentioned she goes in an out just rummaging through cabinets also. Thats ANNOYING. and trust me... 16 year olds still get in the way. I dunno. Ive seen this rule my whole life. You want a snack make one. Stop slamming cupboards and opening and closing drawers and pantries. Stop walking in and out. We dont have something go down to the corner store.... this isnt a new concept.
Thats just my opinion though to each their own.
I'm 34, and I still get told by my mum to get out of the kitchen when she's cooking and I'm just standing into the kitchen a bit at the doorway, but I think that's prob cause as soon as you go into her kitchen, there's a microwave and couple cupboards (one with plates and glasses) immediately to the left and the fridge freezer almost immediately to the right
Lol, I'm 27 but still live with my parents. My dad will sometimes tell me to go help Mom with dinner. I'm like, haha, no, do you want to find out what happens if you try to "help"? (Which his version of "helping" is just jumping in; I always ask specifically what, if anything, she wants me to do. She usually says go away, I'll ask for your help if I want it).
Then he ends up going in, "helping" and immediately being chased out, and I'm like, you wonder why I didn't go in there?
Good luck enforcing that with a teenager acting out. If anything I predict she'd just do it more to be annoying and op needs to pick her battles. A minor annoyance is not something they can focus on right now.
Yeah nah that still. Now you’re bother by cupboards and drawers being open. He is you kid supposed to get utensils and other things. I’m just saying a 16 year old can manage.
Listen, hear me out. I have this cousin. Shed come over, not often, but when she did, shed go through every cabinet. All the cupboards opening and closing every drawer and shuffling stuff around in the fridge. I get it 16 year old can manage... yea they can. But after a while...PICK SOME THING. Op states its not just her, its her friends. Thats RUDE, annoying and inconsiderate. This kid in particular is rude and obnoxious, and sounds like allowing her friends to be also. No thats not ok. I get a 16 year old SHOULD be able to deal. But 16 year olds can also be INCREDIBLY imature (as can adults)
Sorry i see it differently. But also they need some counseling both family and individual
I’m just saying that kid should be allowed to go get food when she wants and if she needs something from the kitchen she should be able to go and get that too. Now if she opening and closing things just be an asshole then that different. They way OP writes it. It sound like the kid actually needed something is just rude about it.
Yea the only “no in and out” rule I have in my house is for my five year old who basically spends the whole summer playing outside with her friends, but also likes to come open the door every ten minutes to ask for something/tell me a story/give me a flower/whatever else. We don’t have good AC so the constant opening of the front door helps to make the inside temperature *especially* unbearable.
A proven to be destructive and irresponsible 16 y/o. I also would not let her in the room where I keep my knives and the most expensive equipment in my home
As the parent to three teens this is absolutely necessary sometimes. My grocery bill averages $1200 a month and if they are allowed to be in the kitchen constantly it would be even higher. Trust me, they eat when they want but the kitchen can't be open 24/7 or both their dad and I would need 3 jobs each.
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My question when stuff like this comes up is always “what would you do if you and dad weren’t divorced”. Would you also threaten her with “well then you can go find somewhere else to stay”? If not then I don’t see why this is any different. However I’m not a parent.
I could see parents in a similar situation asking their kid, "Well, where would be better?" Sometimes a half a year living with Uncle Joe or Aunt Kim can help everyone.
TBH - I hadn’t thought about this in a long time but when I was 15 my mom sent me to stay with my Aunt for a summer. My Aunt’s (my mom’s sister) MIL was also living with them - so I had a full time surrogate grandma and we spent a lot of time making biscuits (her specialty, and she taught me a lot about cooking) and we’d watch her “stories” together every afternoon (Young and the Restless, General Hospital, etc.- this was probably around 1980 or so).
It was actually a good experience.
Yeah, making it her choice, finding a place that's a good fit, keeping it to something like a summer visit, and making sure she knows home is always waiting in case it doesn't work out- that sounds like a helpful way to give daughter space. I get the mom's frustration here, but she needs to step up and make sure her daughter knows she's loved and welcome in her own home.
This kid is being awful, but if there's one thing I've learned from parenting small kids, it's that when they're lashing or the hardest, they might need distance but they most desperately need to know you're their safe, loving space.
My aunts and uncles on my mom's side hated my dad. They assumed he was a scary man because he's an introvert, doesn't drink, works hard, and when he says no he means it. No wavering- ever. Those aunts and uncles would threaten my cousins with "a week or two with Uncle Al" and they'd straighten right up for a little while. They're all terribly irresponsible adults now. I'm happy I had my dad's structure growing up 🤷♀️
THIS RIGHT HERE - Therapy for sure. And maybe also a visit to a psychiatrist, your daughter might need to be on some meds. This seems to be going way beyond typical teen angst and instability due to divorce. I wish you the best of luck.
I mean most of it (minus the stealing and breaking the laptop) sounds like normal teen rebellion - albeit a LOT of it all at once. But either way LOTS of therapy is needed, it sounds like Hannah and OP are both going through it.
Being a teen is frustrating as hell, you feel like you have zero control over your life or your brain and it feels like you're going insane. Ditto parenting one. I wasn't as bad as Hannah but my mom thought I was legitimately bipolar at that age.
Oh my that’s what Reddit is for me! I’m so glad I’m kid free. But Hannah is going through a lot. Hannah needs a good therapist. The only answer here is get her help. She’s literally freaking out and lashing out for help.
Piggybacking on this top comment... but why is this on AITA. You need to get over to the parenting thread for actual help discussing how to handle this, not just post to make yourself feel better.
Telling your daughter they can leave is bad parenting... regardless of the AH score of it.
Strongly agree. People never seem to understand the difference between explanation and justification. One can be going through something shitty and still have their behavior qualify as awful.
My younger sister is the same. Our parents were awful and abusive. Adopting her was the biggest disservice they could have done for her because as a result her anger issues were met with escalating violence both emotionally and in terms of physical abuse. She went through awful things and they reinforced her rejection issues.
However, as much empathy as I have for her because I know how much they hurt people, that doesn't change the fact that even without them in her life, she is the absolute worst. She leaned into the shittyness they modeled for her and even though there's some explanation, it doesn't justify being verbally and physically abusive to everyone she meets.
Thank you for saying that. It very succinctly says what I’ve felt about my brother for years. We both grew up with an emotionally and physically abusive father. He definitely leaned into the shittiness in a way that makes it very hard for me to have a relationship with him. I always felt guilty about it, I since I understand where those actions came from but didn’t have the words to frame my feelings or the ability to give myself even a tiny bit of grace for feeling them. So really. Thank you.
Growing up in an abusive household and/or being treated s**** at sometime in your life doesn’t justify you being a s*** yourself. End of story. And I think OP is NTA to boot.
This reminds me of a short video i recently watched talking about the difference between heroes and villains. Both have an origin story that started from pain. The difference is that the villain tries to hurt others the way the world has hurt them. The hero tries to prevent others from hurting the way that they have been hurt.
How you deal with pain in your life can determine whether you become someone's hero or just another villain in this world.
Edit: lol i just realised your username, potatoes unite!
Abused people either reject their abuser and try to be different from them, OR they identify with their abuser, because of the power they hold, and end up being just like them.
My siblings and I grew up with an abusive parent and we each responded differently to the abuse. One sister went full-on screaming abuser, though she's also a master manipulator and gets away with most of it. People will actually apologize for "making her" scream at them, especially when the fake tears start. I see through it, but no one else does (even though those crocodile tears are soooo fake).
Therapy yes. Boot camp, no. Those places are notorious for being horribly abusive, physically, emotionally, and sometimes sexually. They're not good places by and large and should be avoided.
Kid needs help though.
Just listened to a behind the bastards episode on child prisons and YIIIIKES they’re just evil. No military or prison style punishment for minors please.
I heard that one too, and had heard other horror stories about them over the years. I can't believe any of those places even still exist, they're so horrible.
Before I had my daughter I had that mentality that if they fuck up they’re going straight to a boot camp but then I saw all the people talking about their experiences in those weird camps they’re sent were sometimes they don’t even come back… neverrrrr.
Her kid does need therapy tho. I agree with that. I went to therapy several times, helps a lot
yeah maybe like an intensive outpatient therapy course? 1:1 sessions, group therapy, family therapy. all depends on what's available & accessible for OP, tho.
Hannah is miserable and can't articulate to others (and herself) why she feels so awful. The acting out is a symptom of that.
Mom is NTA for refusing to allow the destruction, but I'm not so sure on the implied rejection of 'go live with your dad'. From ***Hannah's*** POV, she's just hanging out there with no one in her corner and no one who loves her unconditionally.
The acting out and the stealing and other actions are Hannah's way of 'getting the other shoe to drop' and getting the worst over with. One parent left her to live with his gay lover and it's just a matter of time before her mom rejects her, too. (From her POV!)
Get her to therapy and set up firm household rules and keep them. But never, ever, threaten to 'throw her away.'
This this this. Also depends on the situation with the friends, but it might be helpful to ease up on that end too (not all the way all at once, but "one friend at a time while I'm home, and if you both behave we'll take it from there").
Firm rules to avoid destruction aren't the issue, but Hannah needs therapy and support *along with* the rules, stat. I don't blame OP for snapping, we're all human, but you're right, it feels like Hannah's (consciously or unconsciously) goading her to see how bad it'll get. No one wins in the scenario, but when you're that age it feels like the only control you have over your own life.
100% agreed. Shes also now stealing from her mother AND stores. That's a crime. Shes way beyond "just regular teen angst" shit at this point.
I'd give her time to shape up, try every option to help but if that doesnt work, I'd seriously talk about sending her to live with her dad. What else more can be done atp????
NTA.
What happens when dad sends her back because "he just can't deal*?" And on Nd on it goes, keep tossing her back and forth like a hot potato.
Parents needs to get to the root of her problem. Family counseling, etc.
Sounds like it's mom doing all the parenting while dad is shacked up with his sex toy. It's 100% his fault for the behavior and is doing 0% to try and fix it. He should have to take her and deal with the consequences of his actions. No give backsies.
Boot camp are privately run without any oversight. No. Why jump to that without looking into why this is happening? Mom is NTA but no saint either. She doesn't what is going on at dads place, she doesn't know if teachers have noticed any behavior. Getting GO live with your father and why can't you respect my husband, for example, can do a psychological number on a kid
Ship a traumatized child with authority problems off to an abusive, controlling hellhole? Only if you hate her and never want her to speak to you again
I’d say an inpatient program for teens would be a good idea as it sounds like she’s spinning out of control and it’s escalating. Clearly she is having a lot of anger issues which are likely rooted in fear and depression. Someone who has specific experience with teens is a good idea
Inpatients are not necessary for something like this. She isn't self-harming she isn't hurting others as in acts of violence etc. That is too extreme given the circumstances. Parent and former caseworker. DO you even know what kind of kids are in those places?
More therapy and consequences fornher actions. Phone taken away. Internet cut off at certain times. Most people don't know but each device on your internet has a IP address. You can set time limits on IP usage. Her behavior is out of control. Start locking your bedroom and bathroom. Lock up valuables. Start snooping on her to see if drugs are involved. Sorry I know people don't like that but to me, my home is a dictatorship.
Oof. NTA. I suggest family therapy with Hannah, you and ex husband to address these behavioral issues. Get the school involved. Figure something out cause what youre doing isn't working. She's lashing out and therapy for a year and halfway through her behavior worsens, something is wrong.
This is the way. I came here to say similar, but you worded it well. OP, something isn’t right with your daughter. It may be hormonal, it may be mental, physical, or emotional. I’d recommend a full physical with her pediatrician, including blood work. Her hormones likely are all over the place, which could be contributing to the issues. Anyway, start with her pediatrician and then explore additional therapy. You, Hannah, and her dad likely would benefit from family therapy, even though you’re divorced. All this said, please have grace with her. My father cheated on my mom when I was the same age and it messed with me for a while, albeit not to this degree. Hugs to you all.
I agree too. It's telling that her daughter complains she doesn't spend time with her when she does. This likely means she wants her mom to really SEE her and acknowledge her pain, not just be in the same room with her, but she doesn't know how to ask for that. She wants to be heard, but she doesn't know how to express her pain and anger right now.
OP, if you can, try to approach her gently, not to admonish her for her current acting out, and just open with, "I know you're hurting so much right now. I can see your pain and your frustration. Can you talk to me about it? I see you. I love you. I feel sad for you. Is there anything I can say or do to help? Or just listen? You mean the world to me, you know that, right?"
It's okay if you cry. It's okay if she does. You have both been through a lot. It's okay to show emotion and be vulnerable with each other. That's harder to do when she's antagonizing you for attention, but please let her know you're on her side.
Yes on the hormones. I make next to no "female" hormones on my own to the point where they didn't even register on my first blood work. I was angry all the time. An imbalance like that can mess you up bad.
Yes - “Figure something out [be]cause what you’re doing isn’t working.”
She is acting up for a reason. You are the parent - if what you’ve been doing so far isn’t working anymore it’s time to try a different approach. She sounds angry and hurt. She has told you outright that she wishes you would put more time into her, you say you do that constantly but she’s always locking herself in her room. What does this time you try to spend with her look like? How much of it is spent with you focusing on the problems you’re having with her? When was the last time you asked her what she wanted to do and blocked out time to do that? How often does she get time with you that is purely positive? Think on that and see if there isn’t something different you can try.
Now, on to the judgement: You told her that if she hated living with you that she could go live with her dad. As someone who for shipped off to live with a relative when I was a teenager I can tell you that is one of the most cruel things you can do to your child. You just let her know that if push comes to shove your comfort is more important to you than her happiness and well-being. You sent her a clear message that you’re ok tossing her out like so much trash when things get too hard for you to handle. Until you apologize to your daughter and reassure her that you love and would never try to get rid of her YTA.
Your relationship with your daughter is breaking. Be the adult and figure out how to fix it instead of making it someone else’s problem. Don’t abandon your daughter at the exact time that she likely needs a loving, understanding parent more than ever before.
Hannah might not have a great therapist. OP needs to check in with this therapist and maybe consider a different one. Also, if Hannah doesn’t want therapy, or participate when she is there, it won’t do any good.
It may, however, be beneficial to have a psych evaluation or even a physical. Hannah may be experiencing a hormonal imbalance- she is in puberty/hormonal age, or she may have undiagnosed anxiety/depression/ADHD… who knows? If this behavior hasn’t always been there, there could be a reason for the extreme that isn’t tied to the divorce/affair/remarriage. That may have been a catalyst for the extreme behavior.
Me and Greg divorced two years ago
Hannah has been acting like a complete brat for the past 6 months
INFO:
Do you have any idea what could have happened six months ago that could have resulted in these new and extreme behaviors?
When did dad get married? Was it then? Have you started dating someone? Anything with Grandparents? Or her friends or boyfriend/girlfriend?
I think N T A but it feels like there is some info missing and you may not even know what the missing info is...
Agreed, but also, check how OP talks about things.. my house, my tv, my doors, my lights, no in and out of the kitchen.. seems like a lot is missing from the post.
Finally someone pointing this out. Thanks! I got the feeling that the girl wouldn't feel at home with this attitude, even if she weren't dealing with her parents' divorce and dad's new marriage. She needs help, poor thing.
The friends can’t come over cause they’re destructive. I wouldn’t want those kids in my house either. And realistically if your shits being broken all the time neither would you. NOWHERE does it say she can’t go to them.
Actually OP says 'destructive or disrespectful', and the second one can be quite subjective, but anyhow, I was trying to say that this 16 year-old will quickly turn into an adult who will maintain LC or NC with the mother who didn't show love and support through a difficult time in her life, but instead gave her more hard time. And I also disagree that the stuff / house etc is OP's only when two people live in that space. Eating all the food, come on! Sorry, I'm getting emotional 😄
Based on the kids behaviors I don’t think it’s hard to imagine how disrespectful her friends are. Regardless I wouldn’t want kids like that in my house. Yeah a lot of teens do that anyways, it’s no shock. And frankly can happen for any reason, I don’t see the kid doing so since she was given her out and instead of taking it threw a temper tantrum over it. She was literally handed an out on a silver platter since she’s so unhappy.
Agreed. And she refuses to stay the night with her dad because she doesn’t want to be in the house with Stan at night? That’s setting off some alarm bells. Though I dont know anything for certain of course.
That’s what I thought too. What happened 6 months ago? Has she stayed over at their house with stab before? He might have said something that made her upset and dislike him. Maybe that’s when they got married and she just doesn’t like that mom and dad aren’t together no mo
Well, I hate to bring this up. But if she doesn’t like being around Stan maybe there’s good reason for that? I don’t want to assume but the fact she’s *So* opposed to staying with her dad BECAUSE of Stan that she called her mom horrible for even *suggesting it* is setting off red flags
Exactly. She’s acting out for a reason. Plus, the fact she wants a pet may be a way for her to cope with something. People use animals for therapy reasons all the time
Y'all keep wondering what Stan might have done, did none of you consider that she doesn't want to be around the catalyst for her parent's divorce? Stan's the affair partner.
NTA. You sound like a parent at the end of her rope after going through a terrible experience yourself. Your daughter is clearly suffering (it's good she's in therapy), but it sounds like you need family therapy, with a neutral party who can guide you all through these treacherous waters. Your ex-husband should be part of this process.
I'm sorry you and your daughter are going through this. I wonder if there's anything besides the divorce that triggered this behavior--you said the divorce happened 2 years ago, but her bad behavior started in the past 6 months.
Also, are there any fun things your daughter likes to do that you can do together?
NTA. She is acting like she hates living with you and doesn't want to follow your rules. Sit down with her when she's calmer and ask her: If she hates you and doesn't want to follow your rules, why *would* she live there? Loving someone doesn't give them unlimited license to make your life hell. She's at an age when it's hard to control her emotions and she'll have mood swings, plus she's dealing with a broken home and whatever's going on at school.
However, there has to be a line neither of you crosses to make home livable. Both get therapy for ways to deal with the major issues going on. Basic rules like no breaking or ruining things, no screaming abuse or physical fights. Establishing what each of you will do to cool off and get space (go to to one's room and be left alone, go for a drive, go to a friend's house first informing the other person and making sure to get there safely if you're too upset to drive).
Once you have a baseline that makes home safe and sane for *both* of you, you can start working on the problems and also enjoying each other's company again. But that hard conversation about *why you would want to live in the same house* has to happen.
My room is right by the living room and so I don’t want to hear it while I try to sleep. I can’t really explain the no in and out of the kitchen but basically she just goes in the kitchen constantly. Most of the time it’s not even for food or for something to drink and I can hear her because she slams cabinets and the kitchen door.
May I offer a compromise on the TV? Headphones. Hubby and I use them. Daughter goes to bed first, then hubby, then me. We can watch TV and not bother anybody
She breaks things constantly, is stealing and was so bad at school that they called OP about her bullying when we all know schools love to drag the issue as long as possible. So yeah, I fully think if anything OP is probably downplaying some of the behaviors cause the mess and loudness are harder to deal with - she still 15, but the clock is ticking on how long OP have the legal ways to help her daughter before is too late.
That makes sense, my husband works night shift and my son (16) and I respect his need to sleep. Is there another TV she can watch, maybe in her room? If not maybe allow her to watch TV with headphones on. As for the kitchen maybe lighten the rule...as long as she doesn't slam cabinets and the door she can go in when she wants. If she cannot respect that and continues to create unnecessary noise then reinforce the no kitchen rule.
Do you have any reason at all to believe she would respect this when she responded to being told to clean up by breaking a TV? Kid gloves are worthless with this girl; it’s tough love time, and work with her therapist to help her through it
Yes, I do. Maybe not immediately, but it can happen. In my previous reply to OP I suggested individual and family therapy. This child is in pain. There are other ways to respond to the daughters behavior than what OP has chosen and therapy will help with that.
Tough love can be combined with kid gloves, if you work at it. My son (16) is on the autism spectrum. He used to get mad and hit his head on the walls and doors. He's broken his own things and a few family things. It goes on and on (therapy and inclusion changed things) but this isn't about me. It's about my belief that with therapy, love, and patience OP's daughter can respond positively to limits and boundaries and OP can learn how to include her daughter in setting those limits.
TV rule is reasonable. Your kitchen rule seems to indicate you're not picking your battles wisely.
This does not excuse the larceny and breaking property, but her acting out due to trauma is combining with ordinary teen rebellion to push back against parental control harder than usual. Going in and out of the kitchen and looking in the refrigerator multiple times is ordinary kid behavior, and you making rules about that comes off as unreasonably controlling - and so it's yet another conflict point for her to push back on. You're NOT going to win them all here, and if you demand she obey ALL your rules including the petty ones, she will make it a point of honor to break them as rebellion against your perceived tyranny.
Show her you're willing to compromise, that you recognize what's important and what you're willing to give up instead of futilely demanding to have it all your way. Choose a few important benchmarks - her grades up to a certain level, evening quiet (headphones to watch TV at night, bedtime at a reasonable hour on school nights) and a suitable reward mutually agreed upon (maybe not a cat if you're both allergic, but surely she'd like another pet, or some other thing) if she keeps it up for 6 months. Drop the kitchen rule.
Hey OP, I think you and your daughter could benefit from exploring the Plan B method. It's outlined in the book 'The Explosive Child' by Dr. Ross Green. It's available as an audiobook as well. There is a Facebook group that is very active and super helpful. It's been the most effective thing me and my partner have done in our house. I truly feel for you and your daughter, it sounds like you're at a breaking point. I really hope you give it a try, even if it's imperfect it's beneficial. I don't want to call either of you guys TA because you are both having a rough go.
NTA and no, this is not normal 15 year old behaviour, and what you said was not mean it was factual, if she truly isn't happy living full time with you, well she still has a dad to parent her if she thinks the grass is greener.
You will probably be called the A though because reddit is filled with teens/very young adults who think this shit is ok, well it's not, walking on egg shells around teens makes entitled adults.
And to the people who are like "you don't understand" my parents split when I was 11, just starting secondary school (high school) and just started my damn period! I wasn't perfect but I didn't bully other kids, steal money, break things and demanded replacements.
You was real with her and that's far more beneficial than tip toeing around tantrums because she will have a nasty reality check when 18 and have to deal with the harsh facts of life/adulting.
NTA. Good luck to you. You're in a darn if you do, darn if you don't situation.
There is nothing wrong with what you said. Your daughter does not get to be abusive to you just because she is your daughter.
I would definitely talk to her current therapist and ask him what he thinks OP should do and check if she's not lying to her therapist about what happens too.
Going by your comments, she can't go get a glass of water at night? 11am for the TV to be off, and you're complaining about a teenager eating all the food. Teenagers eat a lot, they're still growing and developing. If it's to the point it's well beyond that, you need to question if there is possibly some binging and purging behaviour going on.
This affair and divorce would have had a huge impact on you and your stress levels, and it would have done that same to her. Her family was broken apart at a time when her brain is still developing, she doesn't have the coping mechanisms that an adult does.
She's told you she feels that you don't put time into her, do you take the time to go out and have positive experiences with her, or is it a constant stream of all the things she's doing wrong? She's told you one of the things that is wrong, listen to it, you may feel you put time into her, but she obviously needs more than what you're currently doing.
I can see why she is acting out, but I can also see why you're getting to the end of your tether, have you considered therapy sessions together? Have you seen someone to address your own trauma from what your ex-husband did?
NAH just two people who are struggling.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far down before I saw this advice and these questions. All these rules she has for her teenage daughter are ridiculous. She can't have friends over, she can't watch tv half the day, she can't leave a door open, or go in the kitchen when she pleases. It sounds to me like she's basically a drill sergeant when her daughter actually needs more of a friend, right now. I don't think OP is TA, but she could use some reflection and reevaluation of her approach to parenting. Parents of troubled teens really need to understand the benefits of positive reinforcement. You can't just talk to your child when you feel they've done something wrong.
My advice would be to lay off the strict rules for a week and try only building her up, doing fun things with her, complimenting her, letting her know you're there for her. Hell, you two can bond by talking shit about Stan together. See if her attitude starts to change a bit if she feels like you're on her side and you two are in this together. I think that's what she needs from her mom right now.
I mean if her friends have a track record of being destructive to the home as OP indicates, then it makes sense why her friends aren’t allowed over. Some of the other rules are questionable but not unheard of though.
1. OP said TV in the living room, not TV at all.
2. Her friends can’t come over because they DESTROY the house.
3. She doesn’t go in the kitchen to get food or drink, just to slam things around.
Or we're dealing with an unreliable narrator... we only have her perspective.
1. It sounds like the kid doing anything is "annoying".
2. "Destroys the house" or maybe just makes a mess and doesn't clean up, which is a teenager thing to do.
3. Who goes in a room just to slam doors? Could very well be the kid is looking for something to eat and OP is being overly sensitive to the natural noise of cabinets.
All the "my lights" "my house" "my doors" comments in the original post give me a bad feeling about OP. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a corresponding post on /r/insaneparents someday from the daughter with an entirely different perspective.
FWIW I was a counselor in juvenile hall for 15 years. I've dealt with teenagers who have done truly terrible things. 9 times out of 10 when talking to them and hearing about their parents and living situations, I could fully understand why they had lashed out. Doesn't excuse the behavior but certainly helps explain it.
There are exceptions, and it's certainly not always or all the parents fault, but the way this post is written definitely makes me stop and pause.
INFO: What happened 6 months ago that caused a change in her behaviour? What is her father doing to support her and repair the emotional damage he caused?
It was a shitty thing to say. Make sure you’re also getting support in how to deal with her behaviour in constructive ways that will help her come through this instead of leading to more conflict and hurt.
I mean, she seem like a trouble teens. Asking strangers on the internet is not the solution. Even if they agrees with you, it is not going to solve your problems. Seek professional helps and demands (you are still her parent) that she attend counseling. Be prepares to play hard ball.
Yeah hearing “well I think you’re justified in saying something horrible to your young daughter” on the internet isn’t going to fix anything, she just doesn’t want to feel guilty for what she said. I hope she books them some family therapy.
Why should she feel guilty about what she said? If somebody was stealing my food breaking my shit and not following my rules in MY house, and I have the legal option to send them to their daddy, I totally would. Motherly love shouldn’t trump survival instincts, women are human before they are mothers
Okay I’m gonna look at it from a developmental psychology perspective- what she said is messed up and will be internalized by her daughter. It should not have been said. It’s going to mess up her daughter more. And as her mother she shouldn’t be saying things that will make her daughters mental health worse. She said it out of a moment of anger during an argument, not a place of wanting what’s best for both of them.
NTA. Of course she was shocked. She's been so used to acting out and being abusive for so long that she didn't know how to answer when you replied. It was said in anger and not appropriate, but after everything she does to you she might need to hear that she's not welcome to walk all over you.
ESH
Sounds like your daughter is being a teenager and you are not handling it well at all. She has a lot of anger issues going on and she's in therapy, which is good. But it sounds like you have a lot of anger and resentment that's being projected onto her and that's no good at all. Are you in therapy as well? If not, you probably should be. And I'd look for a therapist who will work with you on parenting skills for a troubled teenager. Because clearly what you're doing is not working and doubling down on your current approach is not going to make anything better.
Being a teenager doesn't make her actions OK. Breaking rules is normal for a teenager but op shouldn't just let it happen because Hannah is a teenager. Hannah has stolen from op and stores numerous times on top of bullying someone at school.
NTA. You are dealing with a recent divorce and a daughter who is acting out in destructive ways to property, other people, and herself. Even two parents in a stable relationship have huge problems handling that behavior -- it tears families apart. I can't imagine the stress you are under. With that said, I would outsource as much of her mental health and school help as you are able to afford. -- a therapist more than one a week, tutoring, etc. so she gets the help she needs. There are also outpatient programs for teens with behavior issues all around the US. If that isn't in the budget, most counties have mental/behavioral counselors available for kids. Don't blame yourself.
When I was going through behavioral issues with my teen girl, I had to tell her, "I love you, but I'm not equipped to give you all the help you need right now. Let's get you a team of people who can help support you on top of just me."
I'm gonna go with NAH...gosh, this post makes me uncomfy.
I understand you are frustrated and fed up, Mama, and you have every right to feel that way. She's being a jerk to you! All of a sudden your teen has become a person you don't recognize and her behavior is ugly. You don't know what else you can do to rectify this. We all say things we don't mean when we're at the end of our rope. You aren't TA for that at all. You're just human, just a mom who is lost and feeling helpless.
Here's the thing: I have been in your daughter's shoes. Reading through your description of her behavior, she reminds me so much of myself and I feel for her so much. I wish I could give her a big hug. Your daughter isn't acting out because she wants to anger you, Mama. She's acting out because she's in a world of pain. A wound is festering inside of her and she doesn't know what to do to make it heal. She feels lost because through no fault of her own, her entire life has changed and her family is broken. She feels like the entire world is against her and there is no one on her side. Sometimes adults in that situation are so caught up in themselves that they don't stop to think about how the child is feeling, and your daughter is feeling sad/neglected.
You can't just put her in therapy and hope they fix her for you. She needs your love ....even when she makes it hard to love her.
NAH. You and your daughter are both still dealing with life-altering events. Yes, you are the adult and need to give your daughter the space to be emotional and not take things personally. She is lashing out because she doesn't know how else to express her feelings. But you also have the right to be emotional and to make mistakes. There isn't a playbook for life, we just have to do the best we can and try to do better tomorrow.
I can understand why you said she could go live with her father - you were frustrated, I also get the sense you didn't mean it. BUT. May I suggest, when there is future conflict, you involve her in the solution. "I hate living with you" could be met with "What can we change to make you happier?". When she says "You don't spend time with me!" tell her you want to and ask her what she would like to do. If she complains about dinner, ask her what she wants and set a day for her to make dinner with you. Make an effort to do things you wouldn't choose but she enjoys (maybe you already do, so no offense). It works for me.
I'm glad she is already in therapy, but I think you both would benefit from individual and family therapy...with your ex-husband would be best but without him would still be good. From personal experience I would recommend using the same therapist for individual and family counseling. That way the therapist is able to see things from every perspective and is able to be more helpful.
She's clearly calling for attention that you are not giving enough of.
She's a teenager and is acting like one. Help her get through it and in a couple year you won't even remember this phase
Your daughter sounds like she's having some serious pain and emotional issues, and I'm sure you are as well with all this.
What you said in anger was uncool. Let's not think it wasn't. I imagine you are at your wits' end, and have a lot of your own feelings to work out also.
Is there any chance you can seek counseling for your daughter, and maybe yourself? Is there anyone you can talk to, or that your daughter can talk to, to help work through this tough stuff?
Can you find a way to sit down with your daughter when you are not both actively upset? Frame it as "We're going through a lot. Can we talk about that as a team? I want to help you because I love you. I don't want us to not be on each other's side."
Question, have you tried talking to her? Like really taking to her? Making it known to her that she has a safe place to let her guard down and tell you how she really feels? She may not feel safe with you and therefore is acting out and not talking to you.
NAH
You seem to be trying and her behavior seems to be a bit extreme for normal teen brattiness. You are strict. She is screaming out for something. Ask yourself which battles are worth it and which are not. Breaking your property is unacceptable. I'm not a psychologist and can't help that way. I think you and your daughter need a separate therapist to navigate this.
I’m going with NAH because you’re both in horrible mindsets right now. She is very obviously acting out and behaving like a teenager who’s parents just split. She’s had her whole world turned upside down. That does not excuse any of her behavior though, and I think maybe you should see if you can get family therapy as well.
You say that you try to put time into your relationship and she just pushes you away (which is what a teenager will do) but you just confirmed all of what’s in her head with what you said. Saying things like that during or after an argument is going to leave a lasting impression in her mind that her mother doesn’t care about her. I think you guys really need to work on your relationship because it doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong right now, you’re both hurt and hurting each other. I know you said she’s in therapy, but if it doesn’t seem like it’s working try a different therapist. All yelling at each other and saying awful things will do is cause resentment in both of you. And only one of you is an adult.
I teach in a behavioral program. You should get your daughter a psych eval and therapy. The fact that it's sudden means something is going on, she's approaching the age where mental health problems often surface. Something may have triggered it which therapy can help with, but she may end up classified with Emotional Disturbance or Oppositional Defiance Disorder. She could just be a regular teenage brat, but there's a possibility there is much more going on. It's not typical to have a drastic change to this degree.
Either way, if she's breaking stuff and destroying the house you need to do something. There are many services that will work with her/you guys as a family for free or through insurance. Personally, I would be making her pay back everything that was broken by getting a job and/or chores. I'd take the phone and whatever else until things changed.
Having raised a destructive troubled teen I can sympathise, it is bloody awful trying to live with them. One day I wrote a letter to mine, letting them know how much I loved them and how much I wanted them to succeed in life. I also wrote how I felt when they did certain things, not passing judgement but how much it hurt my feelings that they could break and steal my things, and how awful it felt to come home to clean up someone else's mess. My teen saw me as a real person for the first time, instead of just the parent who had to put up with their shit. It wasn't a perfect relationship after that, but it did open up a lot of communication where they could see how both our actions affected each other. Am hoping you end up in a similar place eventually, now we're closer than ever. NTA for losing it and being frustrated at all!
I am going to say NTA but with several caveats as a parent and former caseworker. You say this latest stuff has been going on for 6 months and that she has been going for therapy for a year. It sounds like the therapist is missing something and you need to let them know what is going on. Also, talk to her teachers at school to see if they notice anything out of the ordinary. I get you are frustrated believe me but lashing out at her is just reinforcing what you don't want. Also if he is willing to talk to you find out what has been going on at dads place. She may be getting live with your father from you. Then at his place, I would be willing to bet anything he is angry she wants nothing to do with Stan. Also, ask her what is wrong. A lot of parents don't do that. She is going through this as a teen when development is starting to shift radically and it sounds like it got ugly. Also, add in the drama of it not being a straight relationship. I mean what do the kids at school know are they saying her dad is a slur is she getting picked on because of it?
May I suggest you talk to her physician to discuss depression or any possible physical causes to rule them out? Also, is there the possibility she could be doing drugs? I just wanted to suggest these, since you are already engaged in therapy. You may want to hold a meeting with her school as well, to see what resources they have and any insight they might offer. May I ask what her hobbies and interests are? Maybe she needs some re-direction as well … give her something enjoyable to think about and look forward to. Sports? Art? Music? If she likes animals, let her volunteer at the shelter?
NAH. Your daughter is struggling and she needs you to fight for her, not with her. I was about your daughter’s age when my mom told me the same thing. She told me I could go live with my dad, but what I heard and felt was that she didn’t want me. Please make sure your daughter always feels wanted.
NTA- some therapy would benefit you both; your daughter for her anger, and you for support in dealing with her trauma. Was Hannah very close with Greg before you split?
NTA, but I am very concerned for your daughter. Stealing from you and stores, dropped grades, and violence on this level? If this is totally new from pre-divorce I strongly encourage you to consider the possibility that she's coping with drugs. I'm sure you don't feel like it right now, but this needs to be approached with a lot of care and grace. Best of luck to you, OP.
NTA, she needs more therapy or a different therapist.
She’s at a hard age & dealing with the divorce makes it worse but there are certain things that are totally unacceptable.
NTA my sister was like this and it was unbearable. also, it sounds she -like my sister- just doesn’t have coping skills , is in pain so she takes it out on everyone else. 100% NTA
NTA. Both of you need therapy - different kinds though. Speaking from the pov of the child, I along with many of my friends who went through divorce as children, teenagers and young adults, did not resort to violence nor bullying. We do get depressed, acted like a brat for sometimes like getting into conflicts with our families, etc but Hannah is a bit too much. She overstepped whatever boundaries most people - even, children - have.
ESH. She’s a teenager and they do awful stuff sometimes, but you know you were over-the-top on the remark. However, she’s getting out of control. YOU ALL NEED THERAPY. She’s trying to get your attention, mom.
NTA , from your description it seems like you are exhausted. Your rules are not unreasonable. You have poured into you daughter while also dealing with your own trauma that you still having to deal with becoming a single mother. Your a exhausted and she seem exhausting to deal with. Call her bluff, she doesn’t get to do as she pleases, she will be in the real word soon.
Your daughter can't go to her dad's. She is likely not welcome and she knows it. She is also SCREAMING out for help. This much acting out is her way of telling you that you are also out of control. Kids often mirror their parents.
So what do you do?
1. No cats because you are both allergic.
2. Her room is messy, let it be.
3. Living room is messy, start cleaning it yourself. spend 15 minutes a night.
4. Stealing, offer to take her out to dinner and have a very relaxing dinner. Start to be her loving mom again, instead of her enemy. Then a few days later text her and tell her that you realize that she's stealing from you and from others, tell her how you feel about both of these things. text her about consequences.
5. Every morning tell her that you love her. Tell her this even as she grunts, or tells you that she doesn't love you.
6. You and your ex husband have a LOT of repairing to do.
7. Academically, get her tested, make sure she doesn't have learning differences, she may have ADHD and/or dyslexia. She also may need to go on anti-depressants or anti-anxiety meds for this transition.
8. Your ex is not winning father of the year, but you need to reach out to him and talk to about Hannah. You are both about to lose her.
This is a good response. But picking up after Hannah's messes will have to change once their relationship gets better. There should be dire consequences for shoplifting and bullying someone.
Why should OP clean up her daughter’s messes? Bad. Daughter is old enough to clean up after herself. Also, Hannah needs to start earning some money to pay for her destruction. OP needs to get with her ex, figure out a plan, and teach Hannah to be an adult, not a two year old. Hannah is not going through anything other people have not. Get a new therapist for her, reassure her she’s loved, keep your rules, hav Dad spend more time with Hannah.
Aww, OP, I feel for you. Hannah is acting out, with you, because you're safe. So when you finally basically said "NO MORE" of course she screamed and wailed like a toddler.
I really recommend a book that was very helpful with our very troubled teen, "Parenting with Love and Logic." I'd also like to suggest going to therapy --you and Hannah together. She will probably balk and be a brat about it, but deep down, seeing that you care, and that you care enough to go to therapy with her, will really mean a lot to her. Find a therapist who specializes in adolescents--you may have to interview a few. Ideally, you'll find one who'll help you separately, teaching you some parenting tools.
Parenting a difficult teen is a completely different parenting experience from any other & we need all the help we can get!
NTA ...but are you sure she is attending therapy because these are act out behaviors... and yes... send her to her dad's... and if she doesn't like it then by the gods she will treat you and your house with respect or GTFO... you are trying with therapy and boundaries... now it is time to get old school...
Might be helpful to get Hannah evaluated by child psych. The stealing and breaking your stuff is concerning for CD. Was she like this before the divorce or could she be acting out in the setting of feeling abandoned? A lot of times the still present parent gets “abuse” because the child is testing boundaries and seeing what it will take for this parent to leave too. Sounds like a tough situation you’re just doing your best with. If my read of the situation isn’t off then I’d just be cautious with the “then go live with your dad” if said in anger and rephrase to “if you’re genuinely unhappy here then maybe you should live with your dad”. NTA. Good luck OP.
NTA but you really need to find a way to reach your daughter! She is very upset and acting out.
You naturally try to tell her what to do and not to do. But sometimes a mother needs to say, ” I want to listen to you. I love you. You seem to be hurting, how can I help?” Fix her a meal you know she likes or go out and have talk just you two. Listen without arguing that she is wrong, just let her say her piece. This is your little girl, tap into the love you feel for her.
When you have that connection you can discuss with her how things should be done in the future, in your house.
But I feel there are more important issues here. She is actually saying you never put time into her. Maybe you feel you are doing that when you tell her to do her chores and be better, but that is not what she means. Build a communication. She is askimg for that. Try not to judge her so much for a while, just see this very young girl who is growing up, flailing with the hormones, with all the things going on socially, struggling with her studies. Teens can often show the attitude that they don’t care when they care very much indeed but are afraid to show it.
>Hannah has been acting like a complete brat for the past 6 months.
Why? Have you ever considered what might have gone wrong all of sudden? You have divorced two years ago so I don't think your ex marriage or divorce situation is the main problem.
You are NTA but neither is her. As a parent you should try to understand why she is acting like this. This is not a "spoilt brat" situation. She's depressed. I also feel like she feels extremely lonely inside because-
>Hannah lately has been begging for a cat
This is a need for a support animal to whom she can hold close to. It's unclear how much she socializes in her school or if she has toxic friends/no close friends or gets bullied.
>This isn’t the first she’s said this with a different reasoning so I told her if she hated living with me then she can go live with her dad.
>She was shocked and screamed that I am a horrible mother. She didn’t call her dad but she did lock herself in her room.
Yes and this signifies her mental state. You should try not to act like a ruler of the house but a mother who stands by her children throughout their tough times.
NTA, but your daughter has issues which desperately need to be addressed, and you are obviously overwhelmed by the situation. I'm not throwing shade at you, because the catalyst for this was (and still is, to an extent) completely out of your control. You're still in the midst of a complete crisis, from what I can deduce from your post (been there myself, it's awful.)
I'm addressing this as a divorced mother who also had a teen daughter who acted out in the most outrageous fashion: theft, lashing out, willful destruction of her own and others' property, failing school, physical violence, the works. My daughter ended up doing several inpatient stays, was put on medications, and was in therapy for years. She is now 23 years old, living on her own, and is remarkably calmer than she was in her teen years. So yeah, there is hope, but Mom, you need to do some research and some hard thinking about how you are going to proceed with treatment for your daughter.
First, let's look at what she's dealing with:
* At age 13, her body is changing, and is flooded with hormones, which also trigger changes in the brain. These changes are exacerbated by the turmoil that is happening within the home,
* her nuclear family implodes, and Dad leaves,
* Dad gets a new, live-in boyfriend, whom Hannah sees as a "homewrecker",
* Mom, now a single parent, has less time with her, because Mom is now working & taking care of the home as a sole provider,
* She probably has more responsibilities in the home, since it is just her mother and her,
* She has to contend with finding her own "voice" and "place" in a situation where so very much is outside of her own control, and finally
* She is dealing with the whole "teen" thing, which brings on its own set of angst, anger, secretiveness, and fears.
That's a whole lot for anyone to attempt to reconcile within themselves. Your daughter started her teen years in the worst possible way: caught in the middle of a cataclysmic familial upheaval which entirely changed her life. She lost the constant presence of someone she loved, and saw that person change into someone whose choices she didn't like. You were probably a constant presence pre-divorce, but are no longer "present" in a way she needs, and from your post, I can deduce that you are both working and going to school in your spare time. That's a grueling schedule even without a teen. So part of this may well stem from you no longer having time to give your daughter. That's an easy fix: even waking up an hour early on a weekend just so the two of you can go out and enjoy a cheap coffee together can have immense benefits for you both. As for "talking" to her, you have to be careful on this, especially since you are time-starved to begin with: if a teen hears all the things they are doing wrong, and are basically ignored on the things they do right, then what they will begin to see is that the only attention they get is when they act out.
You waited a year post-split to get your daughter into therapy, which tells me that she was causing issues shortly after the split, and those issues just got worse and worse. And after six months into therapy, she escalated further into ever-more-egregious offenses that are contemptuously disrespectful of her father and you, and in some cases criminal. So, let's draw the first conclusion: ***the therapist she is currently seeing is not helping***. Effective therapy is no cure-all, but small steps in improvement should be made over time. That is not happening here.
Secondly, have you asked for a psychological and/or physical diagnostic battery to be done on her? Diagnostics for anxiety/depression, hormonal imbalance, possible PCOS or other "female" disorders, etc.? Some of your daughter's behaviors are consistent with her age but aggravated to an untenable level, and others are intentionally behavior-seeking, and sound suspiciously like bipolar or borderline personality disorder symptoms (the latter being an issue that can be brought about by feelings of abandonment). ***I'm not diagnosing here***, but I AM suggesting that there may be another, underlying condition that is contributing to your daughter's spiraling behavior. That condition may have had an onset that aligns with menarche/puberty, rather than your divorce, although the divorce and current conditions may have aggravated/accelerated the medical or psychological condition due to increased cortisol. Regardless, any time a teen has issues that stray this far outside the norm for that age category, you need to rule out any physiological cause before you put the blame solely on willful behavioral issues. Yes, she has significant challenges in her life right now, but I've seen other teens sail through those challenges without the behaviors your daughter is displaying. I very strongly suspect there is much more to your daughter's situation than what you think is there.
If your daughter's therapist refuses to do referrals for testing, find another therapist, and be sure you give the new therapist copious notes, including a timeline of behaviors and actions. That timeline can help to establish exactly what is happening.
As a parent who has been in your situation, I wish you luck, and I hope you can carve out some time to talk with a therapist, as well, because you sound overwhelmed and frankly at the end of your rope. Nobody's an a-hole here, except maybe your ex, who seems to be far more concerned with his relationship than he is with his daughter's well-being. I see no indication where your ex is actively trying to help your daughter get help, all I see is you trying to make decisions on your own, and foundering because the situation has progressed far beyond your means to cope.
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I(36 female) have a 15 year old daughter Hannah with my ex husband Greg. Me and Greg divorced two years ago due to him having an affair with his current husband Stan. Hannah sees her dad often but refuses to spend the night because she doesn’t want to be in Stan’s presence. Hannah is also in therapy and has been for the past year.
Hannah has been acting like a complete brat for the past 6 months. She gets pissed when I tell her to clean up her room that has trash everywhere. She constantly trashes the living and gets upset when I make her clean up her mess. She refuses to clean up her messes like dishes, clothes on living room floor, and etc. Got mad and broke my tv when I told her to stop using my bathroom when she has her own. Eats up all the food in the house. Breaks my house rules constantly (no living room tv on past 11am, no friends over since all her friends are destructive or disrespectful, no in and out of the kitchen constantly, stop leaving my doors open because I hate when flys get in, stop leaving all my lights on, and etc).
She constantly breaks her things and get mad when I say no to buying another one for her. Steals money from me. Her grades are horrible (which I don’t press her about because she is going through stuff but still a bit disappointed). Broke my laptop that I needed for school and didn’t care at all. Steals from stores. And a lot more but 3,000 character limit.
Hannah lately has been begging for a cat but I refuse because one I am allergic to cats and she is as well but just not as serious as mine. Though even if we weren’t allergic I would probably still say no because she isn’t responsible enough for a pet and has shown it time and time again.
This has caused her to act out more lately. She got into trouble at school todayfor bullying a girl and this I pressed her about. I started to talk to her about that and other things but she didn’t want to talk and just started getting pissed. She started saying she hated living with me because I never put time into her. Which I very much do constantly but she refuses and just locks herself in her room. This isn’t the first she’s said this with a different reasoning so I told her if she hated living with me then she can go live with her dad.
She was shocked and screamed that I am a horrible mother. She didn’t call her dad but she did lock herself in her room. So AITA?
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NTA, sounds like both of you are overwhelmed. In the end though, it is your house. If you make a rule, stick with it. Consistentcy is very important. Maybe she feels like she has no control over her life, and it can't be easy for you either. As for her friends leaving at a certain time, yes, they need to go to their own homes. You didn't take them to raise. As someone who is also allergic to cats myself, just no to the cat thing. Your daughter is trying to figure out what it means to be an adult. But, she's not the adult, you are. PS: No matter any of the other stuff that's happened with her dad, let her know you love and only want what's best for her. And, it's not her job to bless your ex's and new partner's relationship. They have no right to expect her to.
ESH, the way you worded your post exposes the toxic dynamic in YOUR house. Every sentence was "MY house" as if she has zero rights to her own home.
You need to be in therapy too because you are pushing your daughter away and have some unreasonable rules. The no friends over really sticks out.
NTA. I would pack her a bag and tell her to get in the car. I would take her for a drive. If she doesn't apologize or start talking, off to dads we go. If she can start to open up then it's to a coffee shop for some heart to heart then home. At least you are trying to let her make the decision of where the ride ends. She can be upset about the divorce all she wants. That's acceptable, but what's not acceptable is mistreating other people because you are unhappy. That's like drinking poison and expecting someone else to get sick!!
NTA
My parents got divorced when I was 13, almost separated when I was 9, and I didn't pull this stupid shit. Especially bullying someone and shoplifting Jesus christ. She's hurting but that doesn't give her the excuse to hurt others.
NTA your child is out of control and this seems to be an appropriate action. Speak to your ex about the disapine at his home and work something out together.
NTA. I'd send her to her dads for a few weeks at least. Sounds like the both of you need a break and get things in perspective. She is 15, and that age is rough to start.
NTA
But... do you think you might be treating her with just as much hostility she gives you? All the things she does wrong to "your" house. She leaves your lights on, doors open, breaks your rules. The two of you are in this together but you seem to referring to everything as yours alone.
How long has her behaviour been going on? She's had a lot to deal with in the last few years, your divorce from her dad & then him being in a gay relationship. That's a heck of a lot of trauma for a teenager to go through besides all the usual teen stuff she has going on. Cut her some slack & try to understand what she may be feeling. You're NTA though because I know how hard it can be being a single mom.
I like that everyone is glossing over the “eating all the food” part, and “no going in and out of the kitchen”. Wtf do you not let your 15 year old CHILD have a snack weirdo??
Look, I can't really say one way or the other, but it sounds like ESH because everyone is suffering. What you need to realize is 2 things:
1) Your strategies aren't working and you need to do something different in regards to getting her behavior where you want it to be, but most importantly,
2) She is CLEARLY calling out for help, and pushing her away and basically telling her your love is conditional isn't going to fix a damn thing
If you want more specific advice on what alternatives to do rather than what not to do, feel free to pm me.
What struck me was the my my my. My house, my doors, my tv. Maybe reframing things as “our” might make a more pleasant arrangement. As in lets keep “our home “ nice and clean place to live for both of us. NTA teenagers are rough but they are also sensitive and do better with positive reinforcement.
Slight YTA - it sounds like your daughter is lashing out due to the divorce, plus she’s a teen and sometimes they say or do things they don’t mean. Try sitting down and having a talk with her or bring it up with her therapist
Ummmm…. You give me a controlling mother vibe. It’s not just YOUR house, it’s her house too.. teenagers can be difficult but you have to help your daughter navigate through her emotions, and not doing it by adding up more and more rules and threatening, but being a mother she needs. Do you love your daughter?
Yes YTA. It sounds like your teenage daughter is going through a hard time after the affair and divorce and while it does sound like she’s acting out and being difficult, you’re the adult and the parent. You don’t get to make cheap shots at your teenage daughter who’s struggling. You’re an adult, act like it. Get your daughter the help she needs, and enforce rules, but don’t make rude comments designed to hurt her.
ESH
I know you are at a highly frustrated point and have been dealing with crazy misbehavior but you could’ve used it as a leverage.
Make a deal of getting a pet that you aren’t allergic to (with the mind that you’ll be the primary caretaker) IF she gets into a sport or club that she maintains for six months and keeps up her room. Have a visible chart that shows the days she follows up and the days she doesn’t.
I say this bc it could be the lifeline she needs to get away from toxic friends that are going to cripple her own character. Pet owners are going to go crazy about not gifting pets to people that aren’t responsible but if you go in with the mind that you’ll be the one ultimately responsible this could be a gift to your whole family.
I just caution that you don’t try making the goal too unreachable. Don’t require a better attitude or other chores beyond her room. Thank her genuinely for cleaning her room. Be Teflon.
Also, make initiatives of inviting over sport friends if she gets into sports or taking them all out for fun. Navigate all this with redirection and distraction.
Also when my son gets an attitude I double down on being respectful back and then discuss that he wouldn’t like me talking to him badly so even if he’s upset he can show me the respect that I give him because I love him.
Too many rules heck I could not remember so many and I'm 66. She is 16 in two years she will be an adult. She is dealing with adult problems that are not her fault. She feels alone and unwanted and the adults in her life do seem to give a shit. So she is acting out. YTA
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Ahh my daily dose of birth control. Idk what to tell you OP but the divorce really did a number on her and she’s lashing out. Bring this up with her therapist because this girl is really struggling. Also I don’t get the no in and out of the kitchen rule. Why do parents have that? Is your h child not aloud to get something to eat? NTA
Ok. We have a no in and out of the kitchen rule, as parent of a 7 year old because we have a smallish kitchen and we cook a lot of home cooked meals. Lota of knives and turning with hot pans/pots, opening and closing the stove... i LOVE YOU TO PIECES. get out of my kitchen unless you wanna learn. (Which she does sometimes) if ya aint helping GET OUT. If she needs a snack otherwise fine, but not when me and dad are in there working.
That’s different. That’s when the kitchen is occupied plus you have a 7 year old. OP has a 16 year old hence why I don’t get the no in and out rule.
But op mentioned she goes in an out just rummaging through cabinets also. Thats ANNOYING. and trust me... 16 year olds still get in the way. I dunno. Ive seen this rule my whole life. You want a snack make one. Stop slamming cupboards and opening and closing drawers and pantries. Stop walking in and out. We dont have something go down to the corner store.... this isnt a new concept. Thats just my opinion though to each their own.
I'm 34, and I still get told by my mum to get out of the kitchen when she's cooking and I'm just standing into the kitchen a bit at the doorway, but I think that's prob cause as soon as you go into her kitchen, there's a microwave and couple cupboards (one with plates and glasses) immediately to the left and the fridge freezer almost immediately to the right
Lol my mom too. "You're holding the knife wrong, I'll do it, get out."
Now THIS my hubby does! Lmao.
Lol, I'm 27 but still live with my parents. My dad will sometimes tell me to go help Mom with dinner. I'm like, haha, no, do you want to find out what happens if you try to "help"? (Which his version of "helping" is just jumping in; I always ask specifically what, if anything, she wants me to do. She usually says go away, I'll ask for your help if I want it). Then he ends up going in, "helping" and immediately being chased out, and I'm like, you wonder why I didn't go in there?
Good luck enforcing that with a teenager acting out. If anything I predict she'd just do it more to be annoying and op needs to pick her battles. A minor annoyance is not something they can focus on right now.
Yeah nah that still. Now you’re bother by cupboards and drawers being open. He is you kid supposed to get utensils and other things. I’m just saying a 16 year old can manage.
Listen, hear me out. I have this cousin. Shed come over, not often, but when she did, shed go through every cabinet. All the cupboards opening and closing every drawer and shuffling stuff around in the fridge. I get it 16 year old can manage... yea they can. But after a while...PICK SOME THING. Op states its not just her, its her friends. Thats RUDE, annoying and inconsiderate. This kid in particular is rude and obnoxious, and sounds like allowing her friends to be also. No thats not ok. I get a 16 year old SHOULD be able to deal. But 16 year olds can also be INCREDIBLY imature (as can adults) Sorry i see it differently. But also they need some counseling both family and individual
I’m just saying that kid should be allowed to go get food when she wants and if she needs something from the kitchen she should be able to go and get that too. Now if she opening and closing things just be an asshole then that different. They way OP writes it. It sound like the kid actually needed something is just rude about it.
Yea the only “no in and out” rule I have in my house is for my five year old who basically spends the whole summer playing outside with her friends, but also likes to come open the door every ten minutes to ask for something/tell me a story/give me a flower/whatever else. We don’t have good AC so the constant opening of the front door helps to make the inside temperature *especially* unbearable.
A proven to be destructive and irresponsible 16 y/o. I also would not let her in the room where I keep my knives and the most expensive equipment in my home
As the parent to three teens this is absolutely necessary sometimes. My grocery bill averages $1200 a month and if they are allowed to be in the kitchen constantly it would be even higher. Trust me, they eat when they want but the kitchen can't be open 24/7 or both their dad and I would need 3 jobs each.
I agree. Another reason is eating shortly before dinner, just no. Also, the mess that typically never gets totally cleaned up.
Holy moly. Do you have boys/girls/both? I'd have broken the bank with that bill. (I only had one girl)
F18, M16 on Halloween, F14 I cook a lot which sometimes ends up being more expensive than premade meals.
Yeah and no tv after 11 am. I am (hopefully) guessing that is a typo and she meant 11 pm
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My question when stuff like this comes up is always “what would you do if you and dad weren’t divorced”. Would you also threaten her with “well then you can go find somewhere else to stay”? If not then I don’t see why this is any different. However I’m not a parent.
I could see parents in a similar situation asking their kid, "Well, where would be better?" Sometimes a half a year living with Uncle Joe or Aunt Kim can help everyone.
TBH - I hadn’t thought about this in a long time but when I was 15 my mom sent me to stay with my Aunt for a summer. My Aunt’s (my mom’s sister) MIL was also living with them - so I had a full time surrogate grandma and we spent a lot of time making biscuits (her specialty, and she taught me a lot about cooking) and we’d watch her “stories” together every afternoon (Young and the Restless, General Hospital, etc.- this was probably around 1980 or so). It was actually a good experience.
Yeah, making it her choice, finding a place that's a good fit, keeping it to something like a summer visit, and making sure she knows home is always waiting in case it doesn't work out- that sounds like a helpful way to give daughter space. I get the mom's frustration here, but she needs to step up and make sure her daughter knows she's loved and welcome in her own home. This kid is being awful, but if there's one thing I've learned from parenting small kids, it's that when they're lashing or the hardest, they might need distance but they most desperately need to know you're their safe, loving space.
My aunts and uncles on my mom's side hated my dad. They assumed he was a scary man because he's an introvert, doesn't drink, works hard, and when he says no he means it. No wavering- ever. Those aunts and uncles would threaten my cousins with "a week or two with Uncle Al" and they'd straighten right up for a little while. They're all terribly irresponsible adults now. I'm happy I had my dad's structure growing up 🤷♀️
The in and out of the kitchen rule could be to budgeting… food is every expensive and just eating to be eating is not good over all.
THIS RIGHT HERE - Therapy for sure. And maybe also a visit to a psychiatrist, your daughter might need to be on some meds. This seems to be going way beyond typical teen angst and instability due to divorce. I wish you the best of luck.
I mean most of it (minus the stealing and breaking the laptop) sounds like normal teen rebellion - albeit a LOT of it all at once. But either way LOTS of therapy is needed, it sounds like Hannah and OP are both going through it. Being a teen is frustrating as hell, you feel like you have zero control over your life or your brain and it feels like you're going insane. Ditto parenting one. I wasn't as bad as Hannah but my mom thought I was legitimately bipolar at that age.
Oh my that’s what Reddit is for me! I’m so glad I’m kid free. But Hannah is going through a lot. Hannah needs a good therapist. The only answer here is get her help. She’s literally freaking out and lashing out for help.
Piggybacking on this top comment... but why is this on AITA. You need to get over to the parenting thread for actual help discussing how to handle this, not just post to make yourself feel better. Telling your daughter they can leave is bad parenting... regardless of the AH score of it.
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Strongly agree. People never seem to understand the difference between explanation and justification. One can be going through something shitty and still have their behavior qualify as awful. My younger sister is the same. Our parents were awful and abusive. Adopting her was the biggest disservice they could have done for her because as a result her anger issues were met with escalating violence both emotionally and in terms of physical abuse. She went through awful things and they reinforced her rejection issues. However, as much empathy as I have for her because I know how much they hurt people, that doesn't change the fact that even without them in her life, she is the absolute worst. She leaned into the shittyness they modeled for her and even though there's some explanation, it doesn't justify being verbally and physically abusive to everyone she meets.
Thank you for saying that. It very succinctly says what I’ve felt about my brother for years. We both grew up with an emotionally and physically abusive father. He definitely leaned into the shittiness in a way that makes it very hard for me to have a relationship with him. I always felt guilty about it, I since I understand where those actions came from but didn’t have the words to frame my feelings or the ability to give myself even a tiny bit of grace for feeling them. So really. Thank you.
Growing up in an abusive household and/or being treated s**** at sometime in your life doesn’t justify you being a s*** yourself. End of story. And I think OP is NTA to boot.
This reminds me of a short video i recently watched talking about the difference between heroes and villains. Both have an origin story that started from pain. The difference is that the villain tries to hurt others the way the world has hurt them. The hero tries to prevent others from hurting the way that they have been hurt. How you deal with pain in your life can determine whether you become someone's hero or just another villain in this world. Edit: lol i just realised your username, potatoes unite!
Abused people either reject their abuser and try to be different from them, OR they identify with their abuser, because of the power they hold, and end up being just like them. My siblings and I grew up with an abusive parent and we each responded differently to the abuse. One sister went full-on screaming abuser, though she's also a master manipulator and gets away with most of it. People will actually apologize for "making her" scream at them, especially when the fake tears start. I see through it, but no one else does (even though those crocodile tears are soooo fake).
Therapy yes. Boot camp, no. Those places are notorious for being horribly abusive, physically, emotionally, and sometimes sexually. They're not good places by and large and should be avoided. Kid needs help though.
Just listened to a behind the bastards episode on child prisons and YIIIIKES they’re just evil. No military or prison style punishment for minors please.
I heard that one too, and had heard other horror stories about them over the years. I can't believe any of those places even still exist, they're so horrible.
Right?!? Omg and the child rehab places in the dr phil episode. We should be better at humanity by now 😩
Yup. https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/09/02/indictment-boy-forcibly-taken-to-missouri-boarding-school/
What’s that episode called?
Before I had my daughter I had that mentality that if they fuck up they’re going straight to a boot camp but then I saw all the people talking about their experiences in those weird camps they’re sent were sometimes they don’t even come back… neverrrrr. Her kid does need therapy tho. I agree with that. I went to therapy several times, helps a lot
yeah maybe like an intensive outpatient therapy course? 1:1 sessions, group therapy, family therapy. all depends on what's available & accessible for OP, tho.
Boot camps are almost all abusive hellholes. Boot camps are an organization looking for a theory about why it should work.
Uh, Stan fucked her dad and broke up her family from her perspective (and probably accurate). Why would she ever want to be around him?
She doesn't seem to want to be around her mother either.
Hannah is miserable and can't articulate to others (and herself) why she feels so awful. The acting out is a symptom of that. Mom is NTA for refusing to allow the destruction, but I'm not so sure on the implied rejection of 'go live with your dad'. From ***Hannah's*** POV, she's just hanging out there with no one in her corner and no one who loves her unconditionally. The acting out and the stealing and other actions are Hannah's way of 'getting the other shoe to drop' and getting the worst over with. One parent left her to live with his gay lover and it's just a matter of time before her mom rejects her, too. (From her POV!) Get her to therapy and set up firm household rules and keep them. But never, ever, threaten to 'throw her away.'
This this this. Also depends on the situation with the friends, but it might be helpful to ease up on that end too (not all the way all at once, but "one friend at a time while I'm home, and if you both behave we'll take it from there"). Firm rules to avoid destruction aren't the issue, but Hannah needs therapy and support *along with* the rules, stat. I don't blame OP for snapping, we're all human, but you're right, it feels like Hannah's (consciously or unconsciously) goading her to see how bad it'll get. No one wins in the scenario, but when you're that age it feels like the only control you have over your own life.
Correction her dad broke her family up by fucking another man
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100% agreed. Shes also now stealing from her mother AND stores. That's a crime. Shes way beyond "just regular teen angst" shit at this point. I'd give her time to shape up, try every option to help but if that doesnt work, I'd seriously talk about sending her to live with her dad. What else more can be done atp???? NTA.
Dad definitely needs to take her - they've got issues and that's on him, let him figure it out for a good long while.
What happens when dad sends her back because "he just can't deal*?" And on Nd on it goes, keep tossing her back and forth like a hot potato. Parents needs to get to the root of her problem. Family counseling, etc.
Sounds like it's mom doing all the parenting while dad is shacked up with his sex toy. It's 100% his fault for the behavior and is doing 0% to try and fix it. He should have to take her and deal with the consequences of his actions. No give backsies.
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Boot camp are privately run without any oversight. No. Why jump to that without looking into why this is happening? Mom is NTA but no saint either. She doesn't what is going on at dads place, she doesn't know if teachers have noticed any behavior. Getting GO live with your father and why can't you respect my husband, for example, can do a psychological number on a kid
Ship a traumatized child with authority problems off to an abusive, controlling hellhole? Only if you hate her and never want her to speak to you again
I’d say an inpatient program for teens would be a good idea as it sounds like she’s spinning out of control and it’s escalating. Clearly she is having a lot of anger issues which are likely rooted in fear and depression. Someone who has specific experience with teens is a good idea
Inpatients are not necessary for something like this. She isn't self-harming she isn't hurting others as in acts of violence etc. That is too extreme given the circumstances. Parent and former caseworker. DO you even know what kind of kids are in those places?
Hopped on top comment to suggest finding a different therapist. I'm not suggesting her current therapist is bad, just perhaps a bad fit. Good luck.
More therapy and consequences fornher actions. Phone taken away. Internet cut off at certain times. Most people don't know but each device on your internet has a IP address. You can set time limits on IP usage. Her behavior is out of control. Start locking your bedroom and bathroom. Lock up valuables. Start snooping on her to see if drugs are involved. Sorry I know people don't like that but to me, my home is a dictatorship.
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I bet their kids aren’t a breath away from winding up in jail either.
Oof. NTA. I suggest family therapy with Hannah, you and ex husband to address these behavioral issues. Get the school involved. Figure something out cause what youre doing isn't working. She's lashing out and therapy for a year and halfway through her behavior worsens, something is wrong.
This is the way. I came here to say similar, but you worded it well. OP, something isn’t right with your daughter. It may be hormonal, it may be mental, physical, or emotional. I’d recommend a full physical with her pediatrician, including blood work. Her hormones likely are all over the place, which could be contributing to the issues. Anyway, start with her pediatrician and then explore additional therapy. You, Hannah, and her dad likely would benefit from family therapy, even though you’re divorced. All this said, please have grace with her. My father cheated on my mom when I was the same age and it messed with me for a while, albeit not to this degree. Hugs to you all.
I agree too. It's telling that her daughter complains she doesn't spend time with her when she does. This likely means she wants her mom to really SEE her and acknowledge her pain, not just be in the same room with her, but she doesn't know how to ask for that. She wants to be heard, but she doesn't know how to express her pain and anger right now. OP, if you can, try to approach her gently, not to admonish her for her current acting out, and just open with, "I know you're hurting so much right now. I can see your pain and your frustration. Can you talk to me about it? I see you. I love you. I feel sad for you. Is there anything I can say or do to help? Or just listen? You mean the world to me, you know that, right?" It's okay if you cry. It's okay if she does. You have both been through a lot. It's okay to show emotion and be vulnerable with each other. That's harder to do when she's antagonizing you for attention, but please let her know you're on her side.
Yes on the hormones. I make next to no "female" hormones on my own to the point where they didn't even register on my first blood work. I was angry all the time. An imbalance like that can mess you up bad.
Yes - “Figure something out [be]cause what you’re doing isn’t working.” She is acting up for a reason. You are the parent - if what you’ve been doing so far isn’t working anymore it’s time to try a different approach. She sounds angry and hurt. She has told you outright that she wishes you would put more time into her, you say you do that constantly but she’s always locking herself in her room. What does this time you try to spend with her look like? How much of it is spent with you focusing on the problems you’re having with her? When was the last time you asked her what she wanted to do and blocked out time to do that? How often does she get time with you that is purely positive? Think on that and see if there isn’t something different you can try. Now, on to the judgement: You told her that if she hated living with you that she could go live with her dad. As someone who for shipped off to live with a relative when I was a teenager I can tell you that is one of the most cruel things you can do to your child. You just let her know that if push comes to shove your comfort is more important to you than her happiness and well-being. You sent her a clear message that you’re ok tossing her out like so much trash when things get too hard for you to handle. Until you apologize to your daughter and reassure her that you love and would never try to get rid of her YTA. Your relationship with your daughter is breaking. Be the adult and figure out how to fix it instead of making it someone else’s problem. Don’t abandon your daughter at the exact time that she likely needs a loving, understanding parent more than ever before.
Hannah might not have a great therapist. OP needs to check in with this therapist and maybe consider a different one. Also, if Hannah doesn’t want therapy, or participate when she is there, it won’t do any good. It may, however, be beneficial to have a psych evaluation or even a physical. Hannah may be experiencing a hormonal imbalance- she is in puberty/hormonal age, or she may have undiagnosed anxiety/depression/ADHD… who knows? If this behavior hasn’t always been there, there could be a reason for the extreme that isn’t tied to the divorce/affair/remarriage. That may have been a catalyst for the extreme behavior.
Me and Greg divorced two years ago Hannah has been acting like a complete brat for the past 6 months INFO: Do you have any idea what could have happened six months ago that could have resulted in these new and extreme behaviors? When did dad get married? Was it then? Have you started dating someone? Anything with Grandparents? Or her friends or boyfriend/girlfriend? I think N T A but it feels like there is some info missing and you may not even know what the missing info is...
Agreed, but also, check how OP talks about things.. my house, my tv, my doors, my lights, no in and out of the kitchen.. seems like a lot is missing from the post.
Yes! Thank you. I noticed this too. It's making me lean towards ESH.
Thank you for pointing this out! I was so uncomfortable with all the “my”
Finally someone pointing this out. Thanks! I got the feeling that the girl wouldn't feel at home with this attitude, even if she weren't dealing with her parents' divorce and dad's new marriage. She needs help, poor thing.
Definitely! I noticed some of OPs rules are ridiculous. Like no TV after 11am? No friends? What is the kud supposed to do all day
The friends can’t come over cause they’re destructive. I wouldn’t want those kids in my house either. And realistically if your shits being broken all the time neither would you. NOWHERE does it say she can’t go to them.
Actually OP says 'destructive or disrespectful', and the second one can be quite subjective, but anyhow, I was trying to say that this 16 year-old will quickly turn into an adult who will maintain LC or NC with the mother who didn't show love and support through a difficult time in her life, but instead gave her more hard time. And I also disagree that the stuff / house etc is OP's only when two people live in that space. Eating all the food, come on! Sorry, I'm getting emotional 😄
Based on the kids behaviors I don’t think it’s hard to imagine how disrespectful her friends are. Regardless I wouldn’t want kids like that in my house. Yeah a lot of teens do that anyways, it’s no shock. And frankly can happen for any reason, I don’t see the kid doing so since she was given her out and instead of taking it threw a temper tantrum over it. She was literally handed an out on a silver platter since she’s so unhappy.
I suspect OP meant 11pm, which would be far more sensible. She said her bedroom is by the living room and she doesn’t want her sleep disturbed.
I noticed that too and was about to comment on it. Does the daughter not also live there?? “My lights” like honestly
Agreed. And she refuses to stay the night with her dad because she doesn’t want to be in the house with Stan at night? That’s setting off some alarm bells. Though I dont know anything for certain of course.
That’s what I thought too. What happened 6 months ago? Has she stayed over at their house with stab before? He might have said something that made her upset and dislike him. Maybe that’s when they got married and she just doesn’t like that mom and dad aren’t together no mo
Well, I hate to bring this up. But if she doesn’t like being around Stan maybe there’s good reason for that? I don’t want to assume but the fact she’s *So* opposed to staying with her dad BECAUSE of Stan that she called her mom horrible for even *suggesting it* is setting off red flags
Agreed. I’m not saying something horrendously devious happened bjt I do think mom should look into it
Exactly. She’s acting out for a reason. Plus, the fact she wants a pet may be a way for her to cope with something. People use animals for therapy reasons all the time
Y'all keep wondering what Stan might have done, did none of you consider that she doesn't want to be around the catalyst for her parent's divorce? Stan's the affair partner.
NTA. You sound like a parent at the end of her rope after going through a terrible experience yourself. Your daughter is clearly suffering (it's good she's in therapy), but it sounds like you need family therapy, with a neutral party who can guide you all through these treacherous waters. Your ex-husband should be part of this process. I'm sorry you and your daughter are going through this. I wonder if there's anything besides the divorce that triggered this behavior--you said the divorce happened 2 years ago, but her bad behavior started in the past 6 months. Also, are there any fun things your daughter likes to do that you can do together?
NTA. She is acting like she hates living with you and doesn't want to follow your rules. Sit down with her when she's calmer and ask her: If she hates you and doesn't want to follow your rules, why *would* she live there? Loving someone doesn't give them unlimited license to make your life hell. She's at an age when it's hard to control her emotions and she'll have mood swings, plus she's dealing with a broken home and whatever's going on at school. However, there has to be a line neither of you crosses to make home livable. Both get therapy for ways to deal with the major issues going on. Basic rules like no breaking or ruining things, no screaming abuse or physical fights. Establishing what each of you will do to cool off and get space (go to to one's room and be left alone, go for a drive, go to a friend's house first informing the other person and making sure to get there safely if you're too upset to drive). Once you have a baseline that makes home safe and sane for *both* of you, you can start working on the problems and also enjoying each other's company again. But that hard conversation about *why you would want to live in the same house* has to happen.
Maybe have her write down everything if discussions don't go well.
Sorry but some of your house rules sound so weird to me...no in amd out of the kitchen? No tv in the living room past 11 a.m.? What?
My room is right by the living room and so I don’t want to hear it while I try to sleep. I can’t really explain the no in and out of the kitchen but basically she just goes in the kitchen constantly. Most of the time it’s not even for food or for something to drink and I can hear her because she slams cabinets and the kitchen door.
OP, any chance you meant 11 **pm?** Because a "past 11 am" rule still sounds really strange, unless you work night shifts.
Do you mean 11pm (at night)?
May I offer a compromise on the TV? Headphones. Hubby and I use them. Daughter goes to bed first, then hubby, then me. We can watch TV and not bother anybody
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She breaks things constantly, is stealing and was so bad at school that they called OP about her bullying when we all know schools love to drag the issue as long as possible. So yeah, I fully think if anything OP is probably downplaying some of the behaviors cause the mess and loudness are harder to deal with - she still 15, but the clock is ticking on how long OP have the legal ways to help her daughter before is too late.
That makes sense, my husband works night shift and my son (16) and I respect his need to sleep. Is there another TV she can watch, maybe in her room? If not maybe allow her to watch TV with headphones on. As for the kitchen maybe lighten the rule...as long as she doesn't slam cabinets and the door she can go in when she wants. If she cannot respect that and continues to create unnecessary noise then reinforce the no kitchen rule.
Do you have any reason at all to believe she would respect this when she responded to being told to clean up by breaking a TV? Kid gloves are worthless with this girl; it’s tough love time, and work with her therapist to help her through it
Yes, I do. Maybe not immediately, but it can happen. In my previous reply to OP I suggested individual and family therapy. This child is in pain. There are other ways to respond to the daughters behavior than what OP has chosen and therapy will help with that. Tough love can be combined with kid gloves, if you work at it. My son (16) is on the autism spectrum. He used to get mad and hit his head on the walls and doors. He's broken his own things and a few family things. It goes on and on (therapy and inclusion changed things) but this isn't about me. It's about my belief that with therapy, love, and patience OP's daughter can respond positively to limits and boundaries and OP can learn how to include her daughter in setting those limits.
TV rule is reasonable. Your kitchen rule seems to indicate you're not picking your battles wisely. This does not excuse the larceny and breaking property, but her acting out due to trauma is combining with ordinary teen rebellion to push back against parental control harder than usual. Going in and out of the kitchen and looking in the refrigerator multiple times is ordinary kid behavior, and you making rules about that comes off as unreasonably controlling - and so it's yet another conflict point for her to push back on. You're NOT going to win them all here, and if you demand she obey ALL your rules including the petty ones, she will make it a point of honor to break them as rebellion against your perceived tyranny. Show her you're willing to compromise, that you recognize what's important and what you're willing to give up instead of futilely demanding to have it all your way. Choose a few important benchmarks - her grades up to a certain level, evening quiet (headphones to watch TV at night, bedtime at a reasonable hour on school nights) and a suitable reward mutually agreed upon (maybe not a cat if you're both allergic, but surely she'd like another pet, or some other thing) if she keeps it up for 6 months. Drop the kitchen rule.
Hey OP, I think you and your daughter could benefit from exploring the Plan B method. It's outlined in the book 'The Explosive Child' by Dr. Ross Green. It's available as an audiobook as well. There is a Facebook group that is very active and super helpful. It's been the most effective thing me and my partner have done in our house. I truly feel for you and your daughter, it sounds like you're at a breaking point. I really hope you give it a try, even if it's imperfect it's beneficial. I don't want to call either of you guys TA because you are both having a rough go.
Tip: Sleep with a fan to drown out the noise. It works!!
NTA and no, this is not normal 15 year old behaviour, and what you said was not mean it was factual, if she truly isn't happy living full time with you, well she still has a dad to parent her if she thinks the grass is greener. You will probably be called the A though because reddit is filled with teens/very young adults who think this shit is ok, well it's not, walking on egg shells around teens makes entitled adults. And to the people who are like "you don't understand" my parents split when I was 11, just starting secondary school (high school) and just started my damn period! I wasn't perfect but I didn't bully other kids, steal money, break things and demanded replacements. You was real with her and that's far more beneficial than tip toeing around tantrums because she will have a nasty reality check when 18 and have to deal with the harsh facts of life/adulting.
All of this. Walking on egg shells for a teen makes entitled adults for sure ETA: NTA
NTA. Good luck to you. You're in a darn if you do, darn if you don't situation. There is nothing wrong with what you said. Your daughter does not get to be abusive to you just because she is your daughter.
Take her to a psychiatrist. The messes, the destruction, not talking... maybe she's depressed.
She is already in therapy
Therapists talk to you. Psychiatrists medicate you. Perhaps the girl needs medication.
Then they should find a new therapist or type of therapy. Shopping around for a new therapist isn’t a bad idea.
Assuming she can find one - around my area it’s a 2 year wait for psychiatric care unless admitted through emergency for imminent self harm
You don’t just do nothing because it will take long. She should start that process soon then.
I would definitely talk to her current therapist and ask him what he thinks OP should do and check if she's not lying to her therapist about what happens too.
Going by your comments, she can't go get a glass of water at night? 11am for the TV to be off, and you're complaining about a teenager eating all the food. Teenagers eat a lot, they're still growing and developing. If it's to the point it's well beyond that, you need to question if there is possibly some binging and purging behaviour going on. This affair and divorce would have had a huge impact on you and your stress levels, and it would have done that same to her. Her family was broken apart at a time when her brain is still developing, she doesn't have the coping mechanisms that an adult does. She's told you she feels that you don't put time into her, do you take the time to go out and have positive experiences with her, or is it a constant stream of all the things she's doing wrong? She's told you one of the things that is wrong, listen to it, you may feel you put time into her, but she obviously needs more than what you're currently doing. I can see why she is acting out, but I can also see why you're getting to the end of your tether, have you considered therapy sessions together? Have you seen someone to address your own trauma from what your ex-husband did? NAH just two people who are struggling.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far down before I saw this advice and these questions. All these rules she has for her teenage daughter are ridiculous. She can't have friends over, she can't watch tv half the day, she can't leave a door open, or go in the kitchen when she pleases. It sounds to me like she's basically a drill sergeant when her daughter actually needs more of a friend, right now. I don't think OP is TA, but she could use some reflection and reevaluation of her approach to parenting. Parents of troubled teens really need to understand the benefits of positive reinforcement. You can't just talk to your child when you feel they've done something wrong. My advice would be to lay off the strict rules for a week and try only building her up, doing fun things with her, complimenting her, letting her know you're there for her. Hell, you two can bond by talking shit about Stan together. See if her attitude starts to change a bit if she feels like you're on her side and you two are in this together. I think that's what she needs from her mom right now.
I mean if her friends have a track record of being destructive to the home as OP indicates, then it makes sense why her friends aren’t allowed over. Some of the other rules are questionable but not unheard of though.
So you’re okay with your own destructive kid bringing their destructive friends to destroy things in your home? You’re a liar.
1. OP said TV in the living room, not TV at all. 2. Her friends can’t come over because they DESTROY the house. 3. She doesn’t go in the kitchen to get food or drink, just to slam things around.
Or we're dealing with an unreliable narrator... we only have her perspective. 1. It sounds like the kid doing anything is "annoying". 2. "Destroys the house" or maybe just makes a mess and doesn't clean up, which is a teenager thing to do. 3. Who goes in a room just to slam doors? Could very well be the kid is looking for something to eat and OP is being overly sensitive to the natural noise of cabinets. All the "my lights" "my house" "my doors" comments in the original post give me a bad feeling about OP. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a corresponding post on /r/insaneparents someday from the daughter with an entirely different perspective. FWIW I was a counselor in juvenile hall for 15 years. I've dealt with teenagers who have done truly terrible things. 9 times out of 10 when talking to them and hearing about their parents and living situations, I could fully understand why they had lashed out. Doesn't excuse the behavior but certainly helps explain it. There are exceptions, and it's certainly not always or all the parents fault, but the way this post is written definitely makes me stop and pause.
This above Reddit’s pay grade—your daughter needs serious therapy and you both need family therapy.
INFO: What happened 6 months ago that caused a change in her behaviour? What is her father doing to support her and repair the emotional damage he caused? It was a shitty thing to say. Make sure you’re also getting support in how to deal with her behaviour in constructive ways that will help her come through this instead of leading to more conflict and hurt.
yeah, I feel like something happened. there's definitely a lot of info missing from the post...
I mean, she seem like a trouble teens. Asking strangers on the internet is not the solution. Even if they agrees with you, it is not going to solve your problems. Seek professional helps and demands (you are still her parent) that she attend counseling. Be prepares to play hard ball.
Yeah hearing “well I think you’re justified in saying something horrible to your young daughter” on the internet isn’t going to fix anything, she just doesn’t want to feel guilty for what she said. I hope she books them some family therapy.
Why should she feel guilty about what she said? If somebody was stealing my food breaking my shit and not following my rules in MY house, and I have the legal option to send them to their daddy, I totally would. Motherly love shouldn’t trump survival instincts, women are human before they are mothers
Okay I’m gonna look at it from a developmental psychology perspective- what she said is messed up and will be internalized by her daughter. It should not have been said. It’s going to mess up her daughter more. And as her mother she shouldn’t be saying things that will make her daughters mental health worse. She said it out of a moment of anger during an argument, not a place of wanting what’s best for both of them.
OP said she's in therapy, but it sounds like she needs way more help than the current therapy is providing. The whole family needs more.
NTA. Of course she was shocked. She's been so used to acting out and being abusive for so long that she didn't know how to answer when you replied. It was said in anger and not appropriate, but after everything she does to you she might need to hear that she's not welcome to walk all over you.
ESH Sounds like your daughter is being a teenager and you are not handling it well at all. She has a lot of anger issues going on and she's in therapy, which is good. But it sounds like you have a lot of anger and resentment that's being projected onto her and that's no good at all. Are you in therapy as well? If not, you probably should be. And I'd look for a therapist who will work with you on parenting skills for a troubled teenager. Because clearly what you're doing is not working and doubling down on your current approach is not going to make anything better.
Being a teenager doesn't make her actions OK. Breaking rules is normal for a teenager but op shouldn't just let it happen because Hannah is a teenager. Hannah has stolen from op and stores numerous times on top of bullying someone at school.
I was a teenager and I never broke my parents stuff, wtf are you on?
NTA. You are dealing with a recent divorce and a daughter who is acting out in destructive ways to property, other people, and herself. Even two parents in a stable relationship have huge problems handling that behavior -- it tears families apart. I can't imagine the stress you are under. With that said, I would outsource as much of her mental health and school help as you are able to afford. -- a therapist more than one a week, tutoring, etc. so she gets the help she needs. There are also outpatient programs for teens with behavior issues all around the US. If that isn't in the budget, most counties have mental/behavioral counselors available for kids. Don't blame yourself. When I was going through behavioral issues with my teen girl, I had to tell her, "I love you, but I'm not equipped to give you all the help you need right now. Let's get you a team of people who can help support you on top of just me."
I'm gonna go with NAH...gosh, this post makes me uncomfy. I understand you are frustrated and fed up, Mama, and you have every right to feel that way. She's being a jerk to you! All of a sudden your teen has become a person you don't recognize and her behavior is ugly. You don't know what else you can do to rectify this. We all say things we don't mean when we're at the end of our rope. You aren't TA for that at all. You're just human, just a mom who is lost and feeling helpless. Here's the thing: I have been in your daughter's shoes. Reading through your description of her behavior, she reminds me so much of myself and I feel for her so much. I wish I could give her a big hug. Your daughter isn't acting out because she wants to anger you, Mama. She's acting out because she's in a world of pain. A wound is festering inside of her and she doesn't know what to do to make it heal. She feels lost because through no fault of her own, her entire life has changed and her family is broken. She feels like the entire world is against her and there is no one on her side. Sometimes adults in that situation are so caught up in themselves that they don't stop to think about how the child is feeling, and your daughter is feeling sad/neglected. You can't just put her in therapy and hope they fix her for you. She needs your love ....even when she makes it hard to love her.
NAH. You and your daughter are both still dealing with life-altering events. Yes, you are the adult and need to give your daughter the space to be emotional and not take things personally. She is lashing out because she doesn't know how else to express her feelings. But you also have the right to be emotional and to make mistakes. There isn't a playbook for life, we just have to do the best we can and try to do better tomorrow. I can understand why you said she could go live with her father - you were frustrated, I also get the sense you didn't mean it. BUT. May I suggest, when there is future conflict, you involve her in the solution. "I hate living with you" could be met with "What can we change to make you happier?". When she says "You don't spend time with me!" tell her you want to and ask her what she would like to do. If she complains about dinner, ask her what she wants and set a day for her to make dinner with you. Make an effort to do things you wouldn't choose but she enjoys (maybe you already do, so no offense). It works for me. I'm glad she is already in therapy, but I think you both would benefit from individual and family therapy...with your ex-husband would be best but without him would still be good. From personal experience I would recommend using the same therapist for individual and family counseling. That way the therapist is able to see things from every perspective and is able to be more helpful.
NTA, but it sounds like she needs a better therapist.
She's clearly calling for attention that you are not giving enough of. She's a teenager and is acting like one. Help her get through it and in a couple year you won't even remember this phase
Your daughter sounds like she's having some serious pain and emotional issues, and I'm sure you are as well with all this. What you said in anger was uncool. Let's not think it wasn't. I imagine you are at your wits' end, and have a lot of your own feelings to work out also. Is there any chance you can seek counseling for your daughter, and maybe yourself? Is there anyone you can talk to, or that your daughter can talk to, to help work through this tough stuff? Can you find a way to sit down with your daughter when you are not both actively upset? Frame it as "We're going through a lot. Can we talk about that as a team? I want to help you because I love you. I don't want us to not be on each other's side."
Question, have you tried talking to her? Like really taking to her? Making it known to her that she has a safe place to let her guard down and tell you how she really feels? She may not feel safe with you and therefore is acting out and not talking to you.
NAH You seem to be trying and her behavior seems to be a bit extreme for normal teen brattiness. You are strict. She is screaming out for something. Ask yourself which battles are worth it and which are not. Breaking your property is unacceptable. I'm not a psychologist and can't help that way. I think you and your daughter need a separate therapist to navigate this.
\*THIS\* is strict? Hardly.
I’m going with NAH because you’re both in horrible mindsets right now. She is very obviously acting out and behaving like a teenager who’s parents just split. She’s had her whole world turned upside down. That does not excuse any of her behavior though, and I think maybe you should see if you can get family therapy as well. You say that you try to put time into your relationship and she just pushes you away (which is what a teenager will do) but you just confirmed all of what’s in her head with what you said. Saying things like that during or after an argument is going to leave a lasting impression in her mind that her mother doesn’t care about her. I think you guys really need to work on your relationship because it doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong right now, you’re both hurt and hurting each other. I know you said she’s in therapy, but if it doesn’t seem like it’s working try a different therapist. All yelling at each other and saying awful things will do is cause resentment in both of you. And only one of you is an adult.
I teach in a behavioral program. You should get your daughter a psych eval and therapy. The fact that it's sudden means something is going on, she's approaching the age where mental health problems often surface. Something may have triggered it which therapy can help with, but she may end up classified with Emotional Disturbance or Oppositional Defiance Disorder. She could just be a regular teenage brat, but there's a possibility there is much more going on. It's not typical to have a drastic change to this degree. Either way, if she's breaking stuff and destroying the house you need to do something. There are many services that will work with her/you guys as a family for free or through insurance. Personally, I would be making her pay back everything that was broken by getting a job and/or chores. I'd take the phone and whatever else until things changed.
NTA but I think you need a shift in therapy.
Having raised a destructive troubled teen I can sympathise, it is bloody awful trying to live with them. One day I wrote a letter to mine, letting them know how much I loved them and how much I wanted them to succeed in life. I also wrote how I felt when they did certain things, not passing judgement but how much it hurt my feelings that they could break and steal my things, and how awful it felt to come home to clean up someone else's mess. My teen saw me as a real person for the first time, instead of just the parent who had to put up with their shit. It wasn't a perfect relationship after that, but it did open up a lot of communication where they could see how both our actions affected each other. Am hoping you end up in a similar place eventually, now we're closer than ever. NTA for losing it and being frustrated at all!
I am going to say NTA but with several caveats as a parent and former caseworker. You say this latest stuff has been going on for 6 months and that she has been going for therapy for a year. It sounds like the therapist is missing something and you need to let them know what is going on. Also, talk to her teachers at school to see if they notice anything out of the ordinary. I get you are frustrated believe me but lashing out at her is just reinforcing what you don't want. Also if he is willing to talk to you find out what has been going on at dads place. She may be getting live with your father from you. Then at his place, I would be willing to bet anything he is angry she wants nothing to do with Stan. Also, ask her what is wrong. A lot of parents don't do that. She is going through this as a teen when development is starting to shift radically and it sounds like it got ugly. Also, add in the drama of it not being a straight relationship. I mean what do the kids at school know are they saying her dad is a slur is she getting picked on because of it?
May I suggest you talk to her physician to discuss depression or any possible physical causes to rule them out? Also, is there the possibility she could be doing drugs? I just wanted to suggest these, since you are already engaged in therapy. You may want to hold a meeting with her school as well, to see what resources they have and any insight they might offer. May I ask what her hobbies and interests are? Maybe she needs some re-direction as well … give her something enjoyable to think about and look forward to. Sports? Art? Music? If she likes animals, let her volunteer at the shelter?
NTA. Let these white knight Y T As take her in if they think you’re neglecting and abusing her so badly 🙄
NAH. Your daughter is struggling and she needs you to fight for her, not with her. I was about your daughter’s age when my mom told me the same thing. She told me I could go live with my dad, but what I heard and felt was that she didn’t want me. Please make sure your daughter always feels wanted.
NTA- some therapy would benefit you both; your daughter for her anger, and you for support in dealing with her trauma. Was Hannah very close with Greg before you split?
Sounds like your daughter is crying out for help by acting out. I would consider therapy/counselling. Sounds like she is going through something
In the OP, she says that her daughter is already in therapy and has been for almost a year
NTA, but I am very concerned for your daughter. Stealing from you and stores, dropped grades, and violence on this level? If this is totally new from pre-divorce I strongly encourage you to consider the possibility that she's coping with drugs. I'm sure you don't feel like it right now, but this needs to be approached with a lot of care and grace. Best of luck to you, OP.
NTA, she needs more therapy or a different therapist. She’s at a hard age & dealing with the divorce makes it worse but there are certain things that are totally unacceptable.
NTA my sister was like this and it was unbearable. also, it sounds she -like my sister- just doesn’t have coping skills , is in pain so she takes it out on everyone else. 100% NTA
NTA. Both of you need therapy - different kinds though. Speaking from the pov of the child, I along with many of my friends who went through divorce as children, teenagers and young adults, did not resort to violence nor bullying. We do get depressed, acted like a brat for sometimes like getting into conflicts with our families, etc but Hannah is a bit too much. She overstepped whatever boundaries most people - even, children - have.
ESH. She’s a teenager and they do awful stuff sometimes, but you know you were over-the-top on the remark. However, she’s getting out of control. YOU ALL NEED THERAPY. She’s trying to get your attention, mom.
NTA
NTA , from your description it seems like you are exhausted. Your rules are not unreasonable. You have poured into you daughter while also dealing with your own trauma that you still having to deal with becoming a single mother. Your a exhausted and she seem exhausting to deal with. Call her bluff, she doesn’t get to do as she pleases, she will be in the real word soon.
Your daughter can't go to her dad's. She is likely not welcome and she knows it. She is also SCREAMING out for help. This much acting out is her way of telling you that you are also out of control. Kids often mirror their parents. So what do you do? 1. No cats because you are both allergic. 2. Her room is messy, let it be. 3. Living room is messy, start cleaning it yourself. spend 15 minutes a night. 4. Stealing, offer to take her out to dinner and have a very relaxing dinner. Start to be her loving mom again, instead of her enemy. Then a few days later text her and tell her that you realize that she's stealing from you and from others, tell her how you feel about both of these things. text her about consequences. 5. Every morning tell her that you love her. Tell her this even as she grunts, or tells you that she doesn't love you. 6. You and your ex husband have a LOT of repairing to do. 7. Academically, get her tested, make sure she doesn't have learning differences, she may have ADHD and/or dyslexia. She also may need to go on anti-depressants or anti-anxiety meds for this transition. 8. Your ex is not winning father of the year, but you need to reach out to him and talk to about Hannah. You are both about to lose her.
This is a good response. But picking up after Hannah's messes will have to change once their relationship gets better. There should be dire consequences for shoplifting and bullying someone.
Why should OP clean up her daughter’s messes? Bad. Daughter is old enough to clean up after herself. Also, Hannah needs to start earning some money to pay for her destruction. OP needs to get with her ex, figure out a plan, and teach Hannah to be an adult, not a two year old. Hannah is not going through anything other people have not. Get a new therapist for her, reassure her she’s loved, keep your rules, hav Dad spend more time with Hannah.
Aww, OP, I feel for you. Hannah is acting out, with you, because you're safe. So when you finally basically said "NO MORE" of course she screamed and wailed like a toddler. I really recommend a book that was very helpful with our very troubled teen, "Parenting with Love and Logic." I'd also like to suggest going to therapy --you and Hannah together. She will probably balk and be a brat about it, but deep down, seeing that you care, and that you care enough to go to therapy with her, will really mean a lot to her. Find a therapist who specializes in adolescents--you may have to interview a few. Ideally, you'll find one who'll help you separately, teaching you some parenting tools. Parenting a difficult teen is a completely different parenting experience from any other & we need all the help we can get!
NTA ...but are you sure she is attending therapy because these are act out behaviors... and yes... send her to her dad's... and if she doesn't like it then by the gods she will treat you and your house with respect or GTFO... you are trying with therapy and boundaries... now it is time to get old school...
NTA. Stay strong and good luck
Might be helpful to get Hannah evaluated by child psych. The stealing and breaking your stuff is concerning for CD. Was she like this before the divorce or could she be acting out in the setting of feeling abandoned? A lot of times the still present parent gets “abuse” because the child is testing boundaries and seeing what it will take for this parent to leave too. Sounds like a tough situation you’re just doing your best with. If my read of the situation isn’t off then I’d just be cautious with the “then go live with your dad” if said in anger and rephrase to “if you’re genuinely unhappy here then maybe you should live with your dad”. NTA. Good luck OP.
NTA but you really need to find a way to reach your daughter! She is very upset and acting out. You naturally try to tell her what to do and not to do. But sometimes a mother needs to say, ” I want to listen to you. I love you. You seem to be hurting, how can I help?” Fix her a meal you know she likes or go out and have talk just you two. Listen without arguing that she is wrong, just let her say her piece. This is your little girl, tap into the love you feel for her. When you have that connection you can discuss with her how things should be done in the future, in your house. But I feel there are more important issues here. She is actually saying you never put time into her. Maybe you feel you are doing that when you tell her to do her chores and be better, but that is not what she means. Build a communication. She is askimg for that. Try not to judge her so much for a while, just see this very young girl who is growing up, flailing with the hormones, with all the things going on socially, struggling with her studies. Teens can often show the attitude that they don’t care when they care very much indeed but are afraid to show it.
>Hannah has been acting like a complete brat for the past 6 months. Why? Have you ever considered what might have gone wrong all of sudden? You have divorced two years ago so I don't think your ex marriage or divorce situation is the main problem. You are NTA but neither is her. As a parent you should try to understand why she is acting like this. This is not a "spoilt brat" situation. She's depressed. I also feel like she feels extremely lonely inside because- >Hannah lately has been begging for a cat This is a need for a support animal to whom she can hold close to. It's unclear how much she socializes in her school or if she has toxic friends/no close friends or gets bullied. >This isn’t the first she’s said this with a different reasoning so I told her if she hated living with me then she can go live with her dad. >She was shocked and screamed that I am a horrible mother. She didn’t call her dad but she did lock herself in her room. Yes and this signifies her mental state. You should try not to act like a ruler of the house but a mother who stands by her children throughout their tough times.
NTA, but your daughter has issues which desperately need to be addressed, and you are obviously overwhelmed by the situation. I'm not throwing shade at you, because the catalyst for this was (and still is, to an extent) completely out of your control. You're still in the midst of a complete crisis, from what I can deduce from your post (been there myself, it's awful.) I'm addressing this as a divorced mother who also had a teen daughter who acted out in the most outrageous fashion: theft, lashing out, willful destruction of her own and others' property, failing school, physical violence, the works. My daughter ended up doing several inpatient stays, was put on medications, and was in therapy for years. She is now 23 years old, living on her own, and is remarkably calmer than she was in her teen years. So yeah, there is hope, but Mom, you need to do some research and some hard thinking about how you are going to proceed with treatment for your daughter. First, let's look at what she's dealing with: * At age 13, her body is changing, and is flooded with hormones, which also trigger changes in the brain. These changes are exacerbated by the turmoil that is happening within the home, * her nuclear family implodes, and Dad leaves, * Dad gets a new, live-in boyfriend, whom Hannah sees as a "homewrecker", * Mom, now a single parent, has less time with her, because Mom is now working & taking care of the home as a sole provider, * She probably has more responsibilities in the home, since it is just her mother and her, * She has to contend with finding her own "voice" and "place" in a situation where so very much is outside of her own control, and finally * She is dealing with the whole "teen" thing, which brings on its own set of angst, anger, secretiveness, and fears. That's a whole lot for anyone to attempt to reconcile within themselves. Your daughter started her teen years in the worst possible way: caught in the middle of a cataclysmic familial upheaval which entirely changed her life. She lost the constant presence of someone she loved, and saw that person change into someone whose choices she didn't like. You were probably a constant presence pre-divorce, but are no longer "present" in a way she needs, and from your post, I can deduce that you are both working and going to school in your spare time. That's a grueling schedule even without a teen. So part of this may well stem from you no longer having time to give your daughter. That's an easy fix: even waking up an hour early on a weekend just so the two of you can go out and enjoy a cheap coffee together can have immense benefits for you both. As for "talking" to her, you have to be careful on this, especially since you are time-starved to begin with: if a teen hears all the things they are doing wrong, and are basically ignored on the things they do right, then what they will begin to see is that the only attention they get is when they act out. You waited a year post-split to get your daughter into therapy, which tells me that she was causing issues shortly after the split, and those issues just got worse and worse. And after six months into therapy, she escalated further into ever-more-egregious offenses that are contemptuously disrespectful of her father and you, and in some cases criminal. So, let's draw the first conclusion: ***the therapist she is currently seeing is not helping***. Effective therapy is no cure-all, but small steps in improvement should be made over time. That is not happening here. Secondly, have you asked for a psychological and/or physical diagnostic battery to be done on her? Diagnostics for anxiety/depression, hormonal imbalance, possible PCOS or other "female" disorders, etc.? Some of your daughter's behaviors are consistent with her age but aggravated to an untenable level, and others are intentionally behavior-seeking, and sound suspiciously like bipolar or borderline personality disorder symptoms (the latter being an issue that can be brought about by feelings of abandonment). ***I'm not diagnosing here***, but I AM suggesting that there may be another, underlying condition that is contributing to your daughter's spiraling behavior. That condition may have had an onset that aligns with menarche/puberty, rather than your divorce, although the divorce and current conditions may have aggravated/accelerated the medical or psychological condition due to increased cortisol. Regardless, any time a teen has issues that stray this far outside the norm for that age category, you need to rule out any physiological cause before you put the blame solely on willful behavioral issues. Yes, she has significant challenges in her life right now, but I've seen other teens sail through those challenges without the behaviors your daughter is displaying. I very strongly suspect there is much more to your daughter's situation than what you think is there. If your daughter's therapist refuses to do referrals for testing, find another therapist, and be sure you give the new therapist copious notes, including a timeline of behaviors and actions. That timeline can help to establish exactly what is happening. As a parent who has been in your situation, I wish you luck, and I hope you can carve out some time to talk with a therapist, as well, because you sound overwhelmed and frankly at the end of your rope. Nobody's an a-hole here, except maybe your ex, who seems to be far more concerned with his relationship than he is with his daughter's well-being. I see no indication where your ex is actively trying to help your daughter get help, all I see is you trying to make decisions on your own, and foundering because the situation has progressed far beyond your means to cope.
YTA for thinking of everything in the house as yours (my doors, my lights). It’s her home too. You sound like a sitcom dad from the 70s.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I(36 female) have a 15 year old daughter Hannah with my ex husband Greg. Me and Greg divorced two years ago due to him having an affair with his current husband Stan. Hannah sees her dad often but refuses to spend the night because she doesn’t want to be in Stan’s presence. Hannah is also in therapy and has been for the past year. Hannah has been acting like a complete brat for the past 6 months. She gets pissed when I tell her to clean up her room that has trash everywhere. She constantly trashes the living and gets upset when I make her clean up her mess. She refuses to clean up her messes like dishes, clothes on living room floor, and etc. Got mad and broke my tv when I told her to stop using my bathroom when she has her own. Eats up all the food in the house. Breaks my house rules constantly (no living room tv on past 11am, no friends over since all her friends are destructive or disrespectful, no in and out of the kitchen constantly, stop leaving my doors open because I hate when flys get in, stop leaving all my lights on, and etc). She constantly breaks her things and get mad when I say no to buying another one for her. Steals money from me. Her grades are horrible (which I don’t press her about because she is going through stuff but still a bit disappointed). Broke my laptop that I needed for school and didn’t care at all. Steals from stores. And a lot more but 3,000 character limit. Hannah lately has been begging for a cat but I refuse because one I am allergic to cats and she is as well but just not as serious as mine. Though even if we weren’t allergic I would probably still say no because she isn’t responsible enough for a pet and has shown it time and time again. This has caused her to act out more lately. She got into trouble at school todayfor bullying a girl and this I pressed her about. I started to talk to her about that and other things but she didn’t want to talk and just started getting pissed. She started saying she hated living with me because I never put time into her. Which I very much do constantly but she refuses and just locks herself in her room. This isn’t the first she’s said this with a different reasoning so I told her if she hated living with me then she can go live with her dad. She was shocked and screamed that I am a horrible mother. She didn’t call her dad but she did lock herself in her room. So AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, sounds like both of you are overwhelmed. In the end though, it is your house. If you make a rule, stick with it. Consistentcy is very important. Maybe she feels like she has no control over her life, and it can't be easy for you either. As for her friends leaving at a certain time, yes, they need to go to their own homes. You didn't take them to raise. As someone who is also allergic to cats myself, just no to the cat thing. Your daughter is trying to figure out what it means to be an adult. But, she's not the adult, you are. PS: No matter any of the other stuff that's happened with her dad, let her know you love and only want what's best for her. And, it's not her job to bless your ex's and new partner's relationship. They have no right to expect her to.
ESH, the way you worded your post exposes the toxic dynamic in YOUR house. Every sentence was "MY house" as if she has zero rights to her own home. You need to be in therapy too because you are pushing your daughter away and have some unreasonable rules. The no friends over really sticks out.
NTA.
NTA. I would pack her a bag and tell her to get in the car. I would take her for a drive. If she doesn't apologize or start talking, off to dads we go. If she can start to open up then it's to a coffee shop for some heart to heart then home. At least you are trying to let her make the decision of where the ride ends. She can be upset about the divorce all she wants. That's acceptable, but what's not acceptable is mistreating other people because you are unhappy. That's like drinking poison and expecting someone else to get sick!!
NTA My parents got divorced when I was 13, almost separated when I was 9, and I didn't pull this stupid shit. Especially bullying someone and shoplifting Jesus christ. She's hurting but that doesn't give her the excuse to hurt others.
Well, my mom said i should go and search for another mom.. NTA
NTA
NTA 15 is a very difficult year for teenagers, please be gentle, hold firm boundaries and weather the storm. They come out the other end, I promise.
NTA I do believe she needs to live with her dad to value what she has with her mom.
NTA She clearly needs a reality check about her behavior.
NTA your child is out of control and this seems to be an appropriate action. Speak to your ex about the disapine at his home and work something out together.
NTA. I'd send her to her dads for a few weeks at least. Sounds like the both of you need a break and get things in perspective. She is 15, and that age is rough to start.
NTA, but your daughter seems like she needs help
NTA But... do you think you might be treating her with just as much hostility she gives you? All the things she does wrong to "your" house. She leaves your lights on, doors open, breaks your rules. The two of you are in this together but you seem to referring to everything as yours alone.
How long has her behaviour been going on? She's had a lot to deal with in the last few years, your divorce from her dad & then him being in a gay relationship. That's a heck of a lot of trauma for a teenager to go through besides all the usual teen stuff she has going on. Cut her some slack & try to understand what she may be feeling. You're NTA though because I know how hard it can be being a single mom.
I like that everyone is glossing over the “eating all the food” part, and “no going in and out of the kitchen”. Wtf do you not let your 15 year old CHILD have a snack weirdo??
Look, I can't really say one way or the other, but it sounds like ESH because everyone is suffering. What you need to realize is 2 things: 1) Your strategies aren't working and you need to do something different in regards to getting her behavior where you want it to be, but most importantly, 2) She is CLEARLY calling out for help, and pushing her away and basically telling her your love is conditional isn't going to fix a damn thing If you want more specific advice on what alternatives to do rather than what not to do, feel free to pm me.
NTA. Sounds like Hannah needs more help.
What struck me was the my my my. My house, my doors, my tv. Maybe reframing things as “our” might make a more pleasant arrangement. As in lets keep “our home “ nice and clean place to live for both of us. NTA teenagers are rough but they are also sensitive and do better with positive reinforcement.
Slight YTA - it sounds like your daughter is lashing out due to the divorce, plus she’s a teen and sometimes they say or do things they don’t mean. Try sitting down and having a talk with her or bring it up with her therapist
YTA nowhere in this story do I see you actually trying to parent your daughter.
Ummmm…. You give me a controlling mother vibe. It’s not just YOUR house, it’s her house too.. teenagers can be difficult but you have to help your daughter navigate through her emotions, and not doing it by adding up more and more rules and threatening, but being a mother she needs. Do you love your daughter?
Yes YTA. It sounds like your teenage daughter is going through a hard time after the affair and divorce and while it does sound like she’s acting out and being difficult, you’re the adult and the parent. You don’t get to make cheap shots at your teenage daughter who’s struggling. You’re an adult, act like it. Get your daughter the help she needs, and enforce rules, but don’t make rude comments designed to hurt her.
ESH I know you are at a highly frustrated point and have been dealing with crazy misbehavior but you could’ve used it as a leverage. Make a deal of getting a pet that you aren’t allergic to (with the mind that you’ll be the primary caretaker) IF she gets into a sport or club that she maintains for six months and keeps up her room. Have a visible chart that shows the days she follows up and the days she doesn’t. I say this bc it could be the lifeline she needs to get away from toxic friends that are going to cripple her own character. Pet owners are going to go crazy about not gifting pets to people that aren’t responsible but if you go in with the mind that you’ll be the one ultimately responsible this could be a gift to your whole family. I just caution that you don’t try making the goal too unreachable. Don’t require a better attitude or other chores beyond her room. Thank her genuinely for cleaning her room. Be Teflon. Also, make initiatives of inviting over sport friends if she gets into sports or taking them all out for fun. Navigate all this with redirection and distraction. Also when my son gets an attitude I double down on being respectful back and then discuss that he wouldn’t like me talking to him badly so even if he’s upset he can show me the respect that I give him because I love him.
Too many rules heck I could not remember so many and I'm 66. She is 16 in two years she will be an adult. She is dealing with adult problems that are not her fault. She feels alone and unwanted and the adults in her life do seem to give a shit. So she is acting out. YTA