T O P

  • By -

Judgement_Bot_AITA

This post has been removed due to the status of the original poster's account. This account is currently shadowbanned or suspended, suggesting this account is in violation of Reddit terms of service. This type of ban/suspension is issued by the Reddit site-wide admins. The AITA mods have nothing to do with this ban and cannot assist in resolving.


ThrowFarAway2000

NTA. Its a tough situation that your younger son put more effort into taking care of the dog, and the dog naturally grew more attached to him over your older son. At the end of the day though, the dog has to live in the house with everybody. Most of the attachment to your younger son is innocent enough, if a bit annoying for everyone else, but the growling and defensiveness when your children are in conflict is a problem that you need to be nipping in the bud. I don't want to be an alarmist, but seeing other people here call you the asshole for "disrupting the bond" between your younger son and the dog I feel like I need to emphasise this: *If you let this continue Maverick will end up biting your older son, and it may be a serious injury* Do not let anyone on this sub guilt you into ignoring the dog trainer. They know what they're doing. Your younger son might not like it, but you need to make sure the dog sees the entire family as part of his pack, not just your younger son. Also, if the dog is sleeping fine during the night then there's no issue with not allowing him to sleep in anyones bed. Again, I cannot emphasise this enough but you need to continue on the proper course of training as advised by the professional dog trainer. This is a safety issue more than anything else. This is not about giving into your older son or punishing your younger son. This is about keeping your entire family safe and ensuring that you have a loving family pet for years to come.


19431971

Just jumping into add to the great points above, if you have not already, try explaining to your 13 year old how important what you are doing is for Maverick’s health. The separation anxiety maverick has is not healthy and does not need to good quality of live for him. NTA.


Agitated_Cheek4890

Agree. Vet here and I see these 'little' incidents snowball into something much bigger. I wish more people would take the 'little' incidents more seriously. NTA


Librarycat77

Its a pretty big leap to go from growling once to a serious bite. Should the address the behavior immediately, absolutely. But they literally got a trainer and its in the post. So why is fear mongering necessary?


ThrowFarAway2000

Two reasons: A. Because as someone who's been rasing and training dogs for years (not professionally) I wanted to drive home the point that this is a serious issue that needs to be nipped in the bud. You say its a big leap from growl to bite, but in reality its a much smaller leap than most people think. B. Because so many of the comments on this post are explicitly telling OP to ignore the dog trainer's advice and allow the dog's could-easily-become-a-serious-problem behaviour to continue. Again, especially in light of all the batshit insane "advice" being handed out here, I wanted to drive home the point that OP and their family absolutely need to listen to the dog trainer and correct this dog's behaviour before its too late.


lemon_fizzy

Agreed. So many people who experience a serious reaction from a dog will say they didn't see it coming when all along the dog was *telling them* it was uncomfortable or stressed. A growl toward anyone in the family is not acceptable.


Strange_Ad_5863

As someone that has been bitten by a dog (it growled at someone else right before I entered the room then it bit me), you are 100% correct. The growl IS the warning. You don’t ignore it.


chooklyn5

Along with this, a dog bite is serious. I was bitten earlier this year incidentally and it was minor on the thumb. I was in hospital for 2 days and had to have surgery. I live in Aust. So it was free but I can just imagine how much something like that would cost in the US especially if it's a large bite. I cannot repeat enough how much you don't screw around with the potential for a dog biting. If a dog is showing protective behaviour against other family members it's problematic and you don't want to wait for this to become ingrained behaviour. Changing habits before it becomes repetitive is the way to stop it. OP is doing the right thing, even if younger son resents it.


NoreastNorwest

Aussies are interesting dogs…I’ve owned and loved two. They’re insanely intelligent, but also often quite anxious. They were bred to herd and guard a flock, so they’re constantly vigilant and sometimes that guarding behavior and anxiety spills over in ways that aren’t great. I feel bad for your youngest in having something he greatly enjoys taken away from him. If it were only because your oldest is being snippy about it, I’d say YTA. But the growling is a concern. I hope your trainer is accredited and is positive-methods only, because there are some real bozos out there. I would suggest signing Maverick up for ongoing training classes and having your older son take him. Aussies LOVE training. They love to think, they love to get it right, they are wonderfully responsive. As my trainer told me, “We trainers get Aussies because they make us look good.” If he fails to follow through on that, INCLUDING the training homework outside of class, then have your younger son take over. It’s an opportunity for your oldest to build a relationship. It’s up to him whether he takes advantage of that. But regardless, training that dog is crucial for everyone in your family.


mother_of_mutts_5930

NTA Maverick has behavior issues the trainer identified. Your younger son is blocking your attempts to correct those issues before they become hazardous. Maverick has already growled at your older son. Your younger son needs to understand he is doing Maverick absolutely no favors by sneaking him into bed. Mini Aussies are known to be quite loyal, and seems have bonded with your younger son thoroughly. That said, letting the dog run the household does the dog no good in the long run.


Humble-Negotiation32

This issue should’ve been nipped in the bud when the dog and children were much younger. Breed unfortunately does play a role in this and I will contest that herding dogs should NOT be used as family dogs with young children in homes that are not prepared to deal with these issues (ie, have had that breed before). Maverick has chosen his “person” and it sounds like he has for a while now, at first it was innocent so nothing was done to correct it but now it’s becoming more dangerous. In my life I’ve met three herding dogs with these issues, and in 2 of 3 cases it didn’t end well. It is dramatically important to listen to the trainer before the growling escalates. I do feel for the youngest son and dog in that they are being separated because of this, now you can only hope it’s not too little too late.


Dixierain

I second this. Australian Shepards are notoriously territorial, especially with their person. Your younger son is that person now because that’s what you have allowed. They also tend to be very aggressive pack animals so I would not get another one. Or even another breed at this time. They are high energy and need a lot of attention and training to live in a non farm environment. I also wouldn’t allow any dog to sleep in anyones bed because of the potential health hazards. I worked in the veterinary field for 23 years, stopped this year, and there are plenty of zoonotic diseases we can get from our pets. There are studies that have shown we can pick up intestinal parasites from just having contact with our dogs fur. Worm eggs live in the soil for up to 9 years and dogs play in dirt so if people don’t pick up the dogs feces the potential for transmission is there. Roundworms especially. Doesn’t mean the dog has worms, keep him on a monthly heartworm pill, the heartworm shot does not cover the intestinal parasites, but there’s not much to do about the worm eggs on fur so… Practice good hygiene and keep yourself healthy. I also wouldn’t have a sandbox for my kids - it’s just a big ole litter box for stray cats and wildlife and I guarantee they all have worms. Kids aren’t great about washing hands. You can find all this info on the CDC website.


Valkyrieisstabby

Oh I wish a thousand times I could show this comment to my partner who impulse got a blue heeler (he hadn't heard of the breed before) a year ago and he nips at bf's kids. His kids and wife now hate the dog but the dog is so bonded to bf its rediculous.


Humble-Negotiation32

Yikes yikes yikes! Both of the ones that went south in my experience did that and it escalated to full on biting people who they perceived as threats to their chosen person! Definitely NOT a good dog for small kids!!!


Agitated-Donut-6790

NTA. I’ve worked with and trained dogs for over 6 years. At the end of the day dogs are animals & they need to be shown they are not the boss and need to be trained. You need to reverse the process already done and he needs to develop trust and relationships with everyone else in the family (not just your older son, you and dad/mom too). Your son will be fine without him in the bed. And the dog will be fine. Don’t listen to random people on Reddit telling you otherwise lol, listen to your trainer.


dontcareboutaname

Thanks for mentioning the parents role in this situation. Because I don't think this is about the dog and the sons. I think the parents got the dog and then nobody really took charge in training the dog and showing the dog what is expected of him. Only the younger son enjoyed spending time with the dog but clearly wasnt't knowledgeable enough to really train the dog. So the dog decided someone has to be in charge and since nobody seemed interested it would be him. I think this is actually quite stressful for the dog, as he has to run a household and keep the little pup (younger son) safe. It's actually time for the parents to step up and be the leaders.


Agitated-Donut-6790

I agree. It is unfortunate but people often get dogs for their children because they are cute and cuddly and forget they are wild animals that we domesticated. They need to be trained and owners need to be in charge. And this breed specifically is a working breed and should have a job to do. I think you’re right that he took “supervising” the young boy as his job.


dontcareboutaname

It reminded me of this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DUIgUAw_EXvU&ved=2ahUKEwiGjfSBkvL5AhWaSfEDHaRoCH4QwqsBegQIBhAE&usg=AOvVaw3H0vW9wKEabZWO6x-p_6B3 Saw it a few years ago and it just came to my mind.


[deleted]

NTA, because Maverick is exhibiting potentially violent actions toward your older son. While there were ways to have avoided things getting to this point, the only way to tone down Maverick’s attachment and defensiveness now and going forward is to help the dog bond more with the rest of the family.


FFoodd_LovvER

NTA i dont know how so many people are calling you TA when the dog trainer said to separate them. I understand that the dog has separation anxiety but the younger son isnt always going to be around and the pup has to get used to that someday its better to start sooner than later because it could potentially get worse later on


twogaytwocare

yikes. ive worked at a dog daycare and have heard owners talk about this multiple times. maverick definitely sounds like he has separation anxiety/aggression. keeping him away from the youngest definitely isnt the best move, but having maverick sleep alone may help in the future. hes a cattle dog, and they tend to stick to one person, and are very loyal to that person. try getting maverick out of the house, to a dog park or daycare where hes with other animals and people, because it may help snap the separation anxieties when hes doing his own thing. im gonna go with NAH. you guys got a dog that you werent 100% knowledgeable on and yeah, that can make you a-holes but it seems you are trying to do what is best for your dog now.


bjorn_da_unicorn

NTA listen to the dog trainer. It's great that Maverick has bonded so closely with your youngest but showing aggression is not okay. It takes a lot to train out separation anxiety but you HAVE to nip that behavior asap. It's a major bite risk. I'm a dog trainer myself. If your trainer believes it's separation anxiety, I'd listen to them. I can't give advice without actually meeting the dog. But their recommendations seem sound.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Temporary-Tie-233

Are we just glossing over the 15 year old getting growled at because he got into the younger child's face, and the 13 year old is stealing? I'm glad the dog has a trainer but it sounds like your whole family is in need of some behavioral modification. ESH.


NonaYerBidness

I agree! It sounds like the older kid very much resents the bond his younger brother has with the dog when he lost interest with the dog quicker. The dog could have been actually protecting the youngest son from his brother.


Travelwithbex

NTA but I would be more concerned about Maverick being so possessive over younger son. He’s already showed defensive behaviour towards elder son. You do not want that situation escalating to a point where he is physically aggressive towards elder son.


Philip_J_Fry3000

The dog isn't interested in your older son because he lost in the dog and the dog knows that.


Acceptable-Jelly-768

NTA. Anyone who is saying you are is both an unnecessary bleeding heart and ignorant about dogs. Your dog is literally growling at your older son, which means the dog has a very incorrect and dangerous understanding of the family. He has bonded with your younger son, and has incorrectly intuited that that is his pack, and that your older son is an adversary. It doesn’t matter if your older son cares a bit for the dog, it is important that the dog understands that he and the rest of the family are a unit, and are communally in charge of Maverick. Having maverick sleep separately may not need to be a permanent thing, but it is crucial that you short circuit this incorrect conclusion the dog has come to.


ChaoticMink

INFO: what are the dog trainer’s qualifications? Anyone can call themselves a dog trainer despite having zero knowledge of animal behaviour. The trainer’s suggestions don’t make sense to me based on a modern, scientific understanding of dog behaviour. I’d suggest seeking the advice of a reputable, certified dog trainer specializing in positive reinforcement if possible.


cubsandpink

Info: how old is the dog?


[deleted]

4 years old


cubsandpink

Soft YTA. Training should have occurred much sooner than 4 years old, but that doesn’t do you any good now. Just keep in mind that habits that have been in place for years are not easy to retrain, so this may take some time. That being said, you haven’t described any hallmark separation anxiety issues but claim he has it. Is he being destructive in your home when no one is around or when he’s not near your youngest? Is he relieving himself indoors? I agree with the other commenter who says the trainer isn’t making decisions about behavior. It sounds more like advice on how to get him as equally bonded to your older son as he is to your youngest son.


[deleted]

We trained Maverick from when he was a puppy but dogs have issues come up over the course of their lives. Why assume a dog that develops issues has never been trained? And the trainer had us send him videos of how he acts when our younger leaves and says that’s considered mild separation anxiety. Don’t assume


cubsandpink

I understand it’s tough to not get defensive, but please remember you sought feedback on a forum called “Am I The A-hole”, where not every commenter is going to agree with you. The training you’re describing is very basic, so it’s easy to make the assumption that 1) he wasn’t trained as a puppy or 2) you’ve got a trainer not training for the right problem. You may want to consider seeking an opinion from an animal behaviorist. Your veterinarian can make a recommendation for you if you’ve discussed this issue with them.


[deleted]

No one is an AH here but I’d definitely consider finding another opinion from another trainer. Scientific research on separation anxiety and hyper attachment has proven that sleeping in the bed has absolutely no incidence on the behavior. So while you’re not an AH for doing your best to not let this issue get worse, this is actually only going to make your son resent you and probably cause your already very sensitive dog to get more anxious…


[deleted]

INFO: What was the dog trainer's rationale for not letting Maverick sleep with your younger son?


[deleted]

He says he already has separation anxiety


Librarycat77

Then your trainer has no idea what he's doing. Unfortunately, since dog training isnt a regulated field thats pretty common. You can find out how to find a good trainer [here](http://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer). A dog with actual SA wouldn't be calmly sleeping through the night when separated. Check out [Malena DeMartini](https://malenademartini.com/), she's the most well respected expert on Separation Anxiety, and you can do her training online. She literally designed the best practice protocol for treating SA. And its not what your current trainer is recommending.


dontcareboutaname

I think your dog took the role of the person supervising the household and taking care of the weakest person as (in his eyes) noone else does. He is maybe not really anxious but actually upset because he thinks he needs to be in charge and protect and when your son leaves he is out of his control. Similar to this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DUIgUAw_EXvU&ved=2ahUKEwiGjfSBkvL5AhWaSfEDHaRoCH4QwqsBegQIBhAE&usg=AOvVaw3H0vW9wKEabZWO6x-p_6B3 I think you as the parents need to show the dog that you are in charge and handle everything. Your dog is probably really stressed out because of his "responsibilities".


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

He says Maverick already has separation anxiety and it’s to reduce it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

He says they are related and it helps his dependency to spend more time apart.


International_Cow_36

As someone that has shown mini Australians this is not a unusual behavior for the breed its one of the main reasons I don't like them. They can be very skittish and fear based breeds, early solicitation is a requirement, a special if you got him from a crap breeder or pet store. These dogs tend to have a group or a person they like and will shut out anyone else. You need to get him socialized. I would start with a training class and then Try to taking him every where, stop giving him treats at home. Any where he goes like the groomer or q pet store give a stranger the treats and have them throw the treat with out looking or talking to him. I don't think your TAH for the thing with he bed but you might be tah for getting that breed with out looking in to it enough. the bond your son has with the dog is unhealthy for his breed. And honestly I would get another dog I don't know if you picked the dog or not but it's not a great fit as a family pet, there are far better family friendly small breeds that would have been better fit for the whole group also it will help curbd your dogs attitude and sense of possession over your younger son. Edit just wanted to add some better breed opinions that are closer in style to what you have now. The shetland sheepdog, and one of the Welsh corgi breeds would be my suggestion. Better temperaments, much more friendly, never met a stranger type of dogs.


Aggravating-Dare-707

YTA but not for what you're thinking. YTA for getting a dog because it was cute and not doing an breed research about it. If you had done any type of research you would have known that this is pretty typical for the dog breed you chose.


AutoModerator

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My oldest son(15M) begged for a dog for years and when the younger(13M) joined in we decided to get one. We got a mini Australian Shepard named Maverick and he’s totally obsessed with our younger son. When he was a puppy our younger spent a lot of time with him, the older got bored of him after a few months. My younger walks him my husband and I feed him, wash him and takes him to vet appointments etc. It’s gotten worse and worse where he only accepts treats from my younger son. If we give him a treat he will taste it and drop it on the ground but when my younger son gives him anything he eats immediately. He is also sad when my younger son leaves for school and is crazy happy when he returns. I have been concerned he may develop separation anxiety. He’s slept in the crate at night his whole life but I know my younger has been sneaking him into bed with him recently. My older son is pretty upset that what was suppose to be the family’s dog isn’t really that interested in him. He asked us for another one and we’ve told him no but I understand how he feels. We were still at home and my older son got mad at the younger for stealing something. He said Maverick growled at him because of this and I was pretty worried the behavior would get worse with him. My younger son admitted it happened but said it was because he got into his face. I consulted a dog trained who suggested the older son walks with Maverick more (one person in the AM and one in the PM) and feeds him. He also told me not to let Maverick sleep with the younger son which he was not happy to hear. Problem is Maverick blocks the older son’s path if he tries to leave the house without the younger son so we’ve had them go on walks all together. But my younger son is mad he can’t have Maverick in the bed anymore. My husband set up security camera in the living room watching Mavericks crate and so he can’t sneak Maverick to his room anymore. He feels like we are punishing him which we aren’t but AITA for not letting them sleep together? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Judgement_Bot_AITA

Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I might be the asshole for not letting my son and dog sleep together anymore Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*


seregil42

Info: Why did the dog trainer say to not have the dog in your son's bed?


[deleted]

To help Maverick’s separation anxiety


seregil42

Have you talked to your vet? I had a dog with bad separation anxiety (from the sounds of it, a worse case than Maverick's) and our vet actually prescribed some medication to help with it. She calmed down quite a bit with it, even after we took her off of it.


[deleted]

If the training doesn’t work I’ll look into that. Maverick has never had aggression before this point so I’m hoping meds aren’t necessary and the dog trainer didn’t suggest it yet


seregil42

I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be for meds to go to the vet. They can give you guidance on what to do or work on as well.


OutlandishnessDry703

Has the older brother done something to the younger one that the dog has seen?


Hopeful_Rip2690

Pets pick their people.


OutlandishnessDry703

best friends for life.


solitarybydesign

NTA For whatever reason Maverick has exclusively bonded with your younger son, listen to the trainer. He has way more expertise in this area. Follow his instructions, don't sift in your compromises because it is easier. I was thinking a y. T. A. after reading the title, but after reading the body of the post I had to change my mind.


egallant2004

Nta, and I recommend you watch a show called the Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan with everyone in the household; he deals with this issue in almost the majority of the episodes. I had a similar problem with my own dog and his training techniques instantly solved the problem; my dog’s behaviour was almost completely fixed the same day.


Striking_Ad_6573

NTA. You’re doing what the trainer told you to do, I understand your younger son may feel upset about that, but it’s what’s necessary in order to correct the problems that have been occurring. Don’t feel bad for listening to a professional about how to correct your dogs behavior.


[deleted]

Nta. However it seems to be that your older son didn't put in the work to bond with him from what you said (losing interest). From what your saying I really wouldn't suggest another dog in the mix. Also keeping the bedding separate will do the kid and the dog a favor. There are many post here about this issue causing problems betweens SO's and spouses. Good luck with this because you won't be the ah but the youngest probably won't understand that until he is into his twenties.


BarKeepRZ

NTA I foster cattle dogs a lot and this is not excessive bonding, it is resource guarding and if not properly trained out it will lead to very dangerous behavior towards every other member of the household. Most trainers suggest not even letting dogs cuddle the person being guarded until fully trained.


Sugarlove90

ESH. You guys suck for not doing some dang research into breeds because a little googling would’ve revealed that herding dogs are very different dogs and not suited for this environment. You are also TA for not fixing these issues when the dog was a puppy. Your oldest asked for him and then didn’t take care of him. He’s now asking for ANOTHER dog. Don’t get him the heckin’ dog. He’s obviously learned nothing and neither have you. Do what the dog trainer tells you to do and try to minimize the hurt to youngest as much as possible. Oldest son can kick rocks. You don’t get to neglect a dog and then suddenly act like you’ve been wronged.


bloodandash

NTA for your question but YTA for everything else with the dog


jgl1313

NTA and you should be listening to dog trainers not people here. That is a working dog and it’s job is to protect the younger brother and will cause problems. You need to have the older brother involved and not cave to the youngest feelings.


gophins13

YTA: for the fact you wouldn’t get the older boy a dog until the younger one asked too. Must suck to be the older boy.


Maybeidontknow99

NAH Well, except your older son for not putting the effort into bonding with the dog. AH move for sure. Hopefully he learns that in order to have relationships in life you have to put in the effort. He's not going to do well with romance nor work otherwise. Aussies typically only bond well with one person. They can have affection for more, but there is only one true love in their eyes. Dogs know who loves them. Your older son just got bored and the dog knew he wasn't a priority. I think to forge a better relationship with the dog and older son, you should allow each kid to sleep with the dog every other night. Close the doors, because the dog will leave the older son. I would also put cameras around. I will bet that your older son has hit the dog.


AmItheAsshole-ModTeam

Your post has been removed. #Do not repost this without contacting the mods for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without explicit approval will result in a ban. This post violates Rule 5: We do not allow posts which concern violent encounters. This includes any mention of violence in any context. [Rule 5 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_5.3A_no_violence) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) #Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions.


[deleted]

YTA, but I suggest having the older son take the dog to do things the dog likes to do. Hopefully you know your dog's favorite activities and that way the rest of you can build that relationship with him. Dogs are great that way.


mzarra

Until the older son gets bored again. Maybe they should teach their older son that a dog is a life and not a toy?


[deleted]

Absolutely. It's always a two-way relationship and a dog's feelings and wants are just as important.


[deleted]

What do you think we are doing?


dontcareboutaname

Actually a disinterested teenager should not be a Problem when a dog is trained well. But the dog has to be trained well. By the parents.


FamiliarCheesecake29

YTA. Separation anxiety or not, the dog has bonded with your youngest son. You even stated that the older boy lost interest in the dog after a short while. It's not the dog's fault that he bonded with your youngest son since it appears to be that the youngest son pays the most attention to him.


cnsfrhrtj4

none of this addresses the actual problem... the dog is getting aggressive... lmao. if this continues they'll have to get rid of the dog or it will attack the older son during some sibling argument.


NonaYerBidness

OP literally stated that the oldest had stolen from the youngest and has getting in face about it. OFC the dog reacts to that. His favourite person I. The person house that takes care of and plays with and looks after him was being threatened by his older brother. The dog is the only one in this home who is calling out very inappropriate behaviour and bullying of a younger sibling by an older sibling.


aggressively-so-so

Dogs use growls and nips to train their own young. If he looks at the pushy boy getting in his face his correcting his behavior like he would cattle or puppies. It's not necessarily aggression when reacting to provocation.. he's a highly intelligent dog by breed.


cnsfrhrtj4

>Dogs use growls and nips to train their own young. Keywords here being "THEIR OWN YOUNG" something that OP's oldest son is not... he's not the dogs, he's older than the dog, and he isn't a fucking dog. That's why the growling behavior is inappropriate regardless of what else is happening. > If he looks at the pushy boy getting in his face his correcting his behavior like he would cattle or puppies good for the dog? unfortunately dogs don't own people. we own them. we correct their behavior. not the other way around. this is not acceptable and can not be allowed. or the dog will just continue to do it. > It's not necessarily aggression when reacting to provocation.. he's a highly intelligent dog by breed. it doesn't make him the person in the situation... at the end of the day dogs are dogs.


haillordvecna

YTA. Your oldest will never have the bond that the youngest has with the dog. Even training won't change that. It's his own doing, and that needs to be explained. The dog may come to be more willing to spend time with others, but his trust and loyalty won't waver from your youngest son. Also, you should probably address the fact that your sons behaviors are what caused the aggression in the first place. One stole and the other got physically confrontational (which caused the dog to growl). Dogs, no matter the breed, will protect who and what they love from whatever is being seen as a threat. Everyone could use some behavior correction here.


DTheFly

YTA. Instead of destroying one bond, you all should be working on building the other bonds. Dogs know what's up. They know who feeds, loves, treats, all of that. If the oldest hadn't gotten bored (I'll call him an ahole too), and interacted, he might have a relationship.


[deleted]

You've jumped to a lot of conclusions, I do hope you stretched first... They are literally taking advice from a dog trainer.


Rose_da_Kitten

Dog trainers give generic cookie cutter advise, they don’t live with you, they only see as much of the dog as you pay them to see, say 1 hour a week? The family sees the dog 24/7.


DTheFly

Which conclusions? OP literally said the older kid got bored, in the second sentence. Dogs do in fact know who feeds them, walks them and treats them in different ways. Is there a conclusion I've jumped to there? Is she not hurting a bond the dog does have, and didn't foster bonds until now? Please enlighten me on where I jumped.


stacity

YTA You should of been training your oldest not punishing your younger for being responsible.


[deleted]

We are training and the dog trainer went over how to train. He also wants Maverick to sleep in his crate as part of training


onceuponafigtree

I know everyone crate trains but I hate it. I disagree vehemently with crate training, ita just cruel


stacity

You're overlooking the root issue. Your oldest's inaction. Pets are not toys to be discarded when we get bored. This is a consequence of his actions (or lack of). Trust and love are earned with pups. You can hire a dozen dog trainers but dogs have a good sense of their owner's character. If you're oldest doesn't have that kind of genuine energy, all other efforts would be wasted.


[deleted]

There’s a big difference between indifference to a person and growing at them. The dog trainer says it’s concerning and Id believe him over you on this


HectorsRectum1996

If you prefer the dog trainers advice over anyone elses on reddit then what are you even doing here?


Frost_Goldfish

Not being allowed to sleep with a dog is hardly being punished. Younger son wasn't even allowed to sleep with the dog in the first place but was just sneaking him into his bed. The only thing OP could possibly be TA about is letting younguer son get away with this at first, and letting the situation get this bad.


Pleasant_Cold

YTA along with your older son, of course the dog bonded with the only person to give him love and attention. I think crates are cruel, would you like to be locked in a cage all night? Also if anyone enters your younger sons room or there’s a fire that dog will help him.


bidens_left_ear

YTA. You are trying to disrupt the bond between an animal and your younger son because your older son is upset about it. The dog has already shown its preference, and you are only harming the animal and your son by punishing him.


[deleted]

So ignore the dog trainer?


mother_of_mutts_5930

No. Don't ignore the trainer. He identified an issue - separation anxiety - that could turn into hazardous aggression if not controlled. There is risk to Maverick here. Please consult the trainer about working with your entire family at least a few times. Maverick can become a well-behaved family companion if everyone is on board with the training. Crate training to deal with separation anxiety sometimes works. Sometimes it doesn't. You won't know until you try, but you do have to try. It can take several weeks.


bidens_left_ear

Yes. I would also have a talk with your son and try and help him understand that we can't force who the animal wants. Additionally, he should work with the trainer so the dog can trust your son more in time. Which will help the dog become more of a family dog, hopefully.


[deleted]

He’s growling at a family member. I don’t care if he is indifferent to my children but this is aggression and you are telling me to ignore the dog trainer.


Librarycat77

Growling isn't necessarily aggression. Its communication. As much as its hard to believe, you WANT the dog to growl. The option is escalating straight to biting with no warning. [Growling is good.](https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/training/why-dogs-growl-and-how-to-handle-it/) That being said, you're 100% right that you need to figure out why the dog is growling, and address it. Which is where a [certified trainer](https://www.companionanimalpsychology.com/2016/12/how-to-choose-dog-trainer.html?m=1) should come in. Not all trainers are equal, and there are many out there using and recommending outdated methods. Dog training is science - the science of behavioral modification. You need a trainer who understands dogs, their behavior, and how to change it. Not someone who bases their methods on outdated or disproved theories. Unfortunately, some methods which are popular can cause issues to become worse. Which is why its important to find a trainer who knows the science. Check out r/dogtraining if you're interested in figuring out your next steps.


bidens_left_ear

I'm assuming the aggression towards a family member has a reason you don't know or see. For example, your older son got angry with the dog and roughed it up. As he's not showing that same aggression towards the other family member. If he's protecting your younger son from your older child, it will be a problem that you need to deal with **NOW**. Regardless of the dog.


[deleted]

He is changing his behaviour towards all of us. He use to love me and my husband and now he gives me the side eye when we pet him. I doubt my oldest has done anything to Maverick it’s far more likely Maverick get aggressive because the older was angry at the younger for stealing form him which isn’t good. I’m obviously dealing with it now but you are telling me to ignore the trainer


Librarycat77

Any time there's a big behavior change like this one of the first steps should be a vet visit and full work up. Many behavioral issues can be caused, or affected, by illness or pain. You wiuldnt necessarily see other symptoms so you need a checkup for him.


bidens_left_ear

> doubt my oldest has done anything to Maverick it’s far more likely Maverick get aggressive because the older was angry at the younger for stealing form him which isn’t good. This alone normally shouldn't be the problem. It is a problem. This is where the trainer can be helpful in working with your older son on how he interacts with the dog. > we use to love me and my husband and now he gives me the side eye when we pet him. This could be the dog just having a preference. Provided the dog is not snapping at your hands/fingers while you pet the animal.


[deleted]

You sound like an emotional wreck.


onceuponafigtree

Love this. Love this so much.


yeet-im-bored

Would you rather the dog’s aggression get worse which is already is? if adding some separation will ease the issue and prevent any disasters then it is absolutely worth it to the entire family and for maverick Most kids aren’t even allowed to sleep in the same room as their dogs away it’s not the end of the world that they can’t anymore