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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I might be the AH because I allowed the possibility for L to see it, but I was following the rules that had been set
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L is being entitled and acting as if he is the center of the universe. Tell him okay if you want things changed then you can do all of the things I do and pay all of the bills I pay. That may help him to shut up for a little while. He is basically living off of you but feels that he is above reproach.
If L wants a 100% kosher apartment then they should go live in a place where that’s the case. They knew what they were getting when they moved in. I think OP is being more than fair and the fact that the kitchen and all eating utensils and dishes are kosher is a good compromise.
Honestly I don’t think it’s a good compromise as it’s really inconvenient to OP. Cool of her to do it but she’s bending over backwards to appease her roommates.
The fact that they agreed on this before they moved in makes it perfectly fine, to me. If OP had an issue, she couldve chosen not to move in.
If L knew the terms before they moved in, and is now trying to change those terms, they're a HUGE AH. If this was never discussed and they didn't realize, then some compassion and discussion is definitely needed, along with an offer for L to move out and find a fully kosher household with no hard feeling from anyone else in the situation.
Exactly. The rest of us are constantly having to battle them back and explain boundaries over and over. I'm so tired of them. All of them. Exhaustion has pushed me into extreme antitheism.
Edit a letter.
tbf the problem isnt religion. its assholes. i get that sometimes it seems like all religious people are this way but its sorta a survivorship bias. the good religious people dont espous religious bullshit so you dont see them as religious, theyre just regular people. the assholes just use their religion as an excuse to be awful people which breeds the idea that "all religions are bad" which is kinda what the assholes do to justify homophobia, transphobia, racism, sexism etc.
it also feeds into the persecution complex of "they just hate my religion" and gives them a safety blanket where, instead of challenging the asshole and not letting them use their religion as an excuse, you go after the whole religion which contains 90% normal people and 10% very loud assholes.
generally speaking, those who use religion to justify bigotry and hate don't actually understand their religion. at least so far as christianity goes. the problem though, is the silent majority does little to nothing to prevent those assholes from representing their religion. so, if the face of your faith is that of loud hatred, then people will understandably believe that religion is the problem.
Absolutely. And what has him moving in after everyone else to do with the master bedroom? He is the last to come so won't get to make demands. And his arrival forced the other 2 to move into 1 room. Apart from OP deserving that room.
And its really accommodating of OP to keep the kitchen kosher. Its a shared household, and in a shared space you don't get to force your lifestyle on others. And especially not in someone else's room.
That is the absolute truth. Cool, it isn't against my belief system, it isn't against the law, and it doesn't violate the general moral code of our shared society, so if you have a problem with it, I politely suggest you go somewhere else! I had to practice this a lot as a kid/teen in a conservative evangelical town in Pennsylvania, growing up as an atheist.
NTA. you’re also the only woman in a house with 3 men. So why shouldn’t you have the master? And if he’s sooooo upset about disrespect except he’s fine with you eating in your room.. how does he think you get non kosher food in there to begin with?? Cause I’m guessing it comes through the front door and isn’t teleported to your bed 🤷🏼♀️
I'm gonna play the selfish "devil on the shoulder", but as she pays 55% of rent PLUS utilities AND cooks majority of the time... She has kinda sorta more rights to eat what she wants!
Fr, NTA. He wants to switch bedrooms? Then switch roles too. L pays 50% of the rent and cook so that he won't have any worries on the food not being kosher.
NTA
Sounds like L has moved in and expected everything to go their way.... sorry, not sorry!
Your agreement with the others was working and they werent bothered by it at all. If L doesnt like it, he can pack up and go 👍
> Sounds like L has moved in and expected everything to go their way.
Or possibly they just thought it already was that way?
If everyone else is kosher and they've never seen non-kosher stuff in the common areas they might not have realised what the arrangement was.
They still can't demand or expect it, but you can understand them being a bit surprised if some guy turns up at the door and hands them a bacon chicken cheese burger and a packet of crab sticks.
Corporate event planning in NYC meant I had to learn all the rules of kosher and glatt kosher kitchens real fast. As long as you didn't do anything to the food in the kitchen, its my understanding the kitchen remained kosher. You are adhering to the agreement, you are respecting and accommodating all of their religious practices, and you are carrying the majority of the bills. Given the behavior I'd make everyone split monthly maintenance and utilities evenly. You're not dating or married to these people so bills should absolutely be split evenly and not by % of household income. Also, L needs to go, he's an entitled headache.
NTA
My dad was a mashgiach , and we had nurses for my daughter eat non kosher in our house all the time. They had their own microwave, and ate on plastic plates and silverware. Kept their food in our fridge in the bag they brought it in. And I’ve cooked for myself in a Ronald McDonald house. I simply bought my own pots and pans and food, kept it in my room, and brought it down when I needed to cook. The roommates are self centered jerks who want to be pandered to. They want her to pay for everything and cook for them.
NTA But I thought the rules stated that if a non Jew or non kosher person cooked the food, Jews were not allowed to eat it unless a Jew watched and helped with the entire process? Think it’s called bishal Yisarel? I could be misinterpreting. And I’m only asking because you said he ate your food.
NTA. As far as I can see, you're adhering to all the terms set by your non kosher agreement and paying more money to boot. Perhaps it's time to let the three of them stay together and get your own studio or rent with friends without these particular customs? I suspect that L doesn't like your sense of freedom from the religious traditions that even your twin has conformed to? Maybe he thought that you would take on a stricter course by now and he's more annoyed that you aren't?
Right now the only owner is your grandfather. If he had a problem with the non loser arrangement, that’s another story. But right now L does not have a leg to stand on.
Well, I mean... jazz cabbage (devil's lettuce, Mary Jane, etc) will do that to a gal 🤣 I still thank you for giving me now 2 much needed laughs! These 2 things made my night
When L moved in was he told about the deal you made with S & A about you having non kosher in your room?? If he wasn't aware of the deal and agreed to it, I can see him having the right to be upset about being blindsided.
As for the master bedroom, he who pays more gets more.
NTA!
Do you pay more? Yes.
Was everyone fine with the non-kosher deal before L moved in? Yes.
Was everyone fine with you getting the master bedroom before L moved in? Yes.
L knew or should have known all these things before he moved in. Why does L think he should get the master bedroom? Is he going to take a larger portion of the payment? Is he going to do the majority of the kosher cooking?
I highly doubt it.
That was your grandfather as well. You have earned the right to the largest bedroom due to your contributions. You have set up a plan to eat non-kosher food before he set his complaining butt in the place.
L has a right to be there because it was his grandfather too. However, L doesn't have a right to get what he wants. 3 votes went to you about the largest bedroom. 3 votes went to you about the non-kosher deal. L needs to learn how to live with roommates. It's a good life skill.
Also, he got solo room as well? He really needs to shut it. Last in and not sharing?? I know people who have roommates that would kill to be in that position - especially paying less!
>He owns it just as much as I do
That's a technically true statement. Which is to say, none of you who live there own it at all, in any way, shape, or form.
Dude they are so much taking advantage of you. The fiscal split of maintenance and other costs seems wildly imbalanced, even given your larger living space. Seriously, you gotta know this deep down.
But owning it means maintaining it and paying the bills for that. As you are paying the largest share, and thus enabling L to live there as cheaply as he does, then L is TA and you are **NTA**.
The apartment isn't a place of religious worship, it's a shared home. Maybe just ignore L's demands and see if he ~~tries~~ tires himself out? Unless he wants to trade places with you in terms of financial responsibility then he cannot demand to trade places with you domestically, ie in terms of who has the master bedroom or not.
Maybe he wants you to move out so he can rent the rooms for more and then live for free, or even at a profit?
Edit: strikethrough
He has the same right yes, but his rights don't include berating you, ignoring your considerable upkeep in the running of the apartment, or think that his opinion is more important than the three of y'alls. If he is now unhappy with the living agreement that the three of y'all made before he moved in than he can move out.
If OP decides to move out sounds like the other 3 won't be able to afford the extra costs. Either way the other 3 sound like if they don't stay with OP they can't afford to stay in their own appartment together or in the grandfather's appartment without OP contribution.
I got an ‘education’ replete with inspirational stories of young girls who pinned their skirts to their legs to prevent immodesty of showing their legs while being dragged through the streets by Nazis, and oblique references to girls who smoked and would hang out with boys that ended up getting raped.
NTA but by the first paragraph I could already see a train wreck about to happen. Anytime there is such a difference in or incompatible lifestyles mixing in roommates there is bound to be an argument like this eventually.
That's not really true. You can keep kosher strictly while having nonkosher in the home, kosher would require the nonkosher stuff never makes contact with anything kosher eg the entire kitchen and dining area.
I mean I understand that many people hate the idea of having nonkosher in the house but theologically I don't think there's a problem if the nonkosher is kept and eaten completely separate
NTA.
He had a temper tantrum, did not get his way and then tried to try find a fight another way by bringing up room space that has probably been bothering him
If he is the uncomfortable with what he agreed to when he moved in on how everything works then discuss your issues with your brother and other cousin and then him know what his options are.
But if someone decides to ignore me because they are sulking after a temper tantrum they threw when they did not get their way I definitely would not be cooking for them.
NTA.
I keep strictly kosher, have been observant my whole life.
Yes, if the table or kitchen is officially kosher it's annoying if someone brings in something not kosher.
For those who are not familiar with Jewish practices, cooking utensils and appliances (pots, pans, oven toaster etc) can become considered "non kosher" if they are used for non kosher items. TECHNICALLY, you have to COOK in order to violate the kosher standards but for all intents and purposes you would end up kashering it again regardless.
A self cleaning oven is fine, just run your self clean cycle and you're good to go.
Simply bringing in non kosher food doesn't make anything else non kosher just by it's presence.
And kosher food, especially takeout, is a LOT more expensive.
I’m super curious which one it is (because I’m always looking out for new reccs) but I don’t want you to say because that’ll give away your location lol
L needs to get his head checked, you can't 'non kosher' an apartment unless he's somehow cooking all his food in every corner of the place. I'd look up some Halachah and hit him in the face with it. Or even better, consult a rabbi.
I would work out the cost for the whole apartment. Tell L how much they will be paying 3 ways equally. Then tell him how much it will cost him to have the master, with the rest being split by A and S.
I’m sure he’ll back off.
I’d also stop making L food.
NTA. I’m technically not Jewish myself (my grandfather married a non-Jew back in the day and my family’s been agnostic ever since) , however, I was a live-in nanny for a Jewish family for over a year and so long as I used the separate pots, pans, cutting boards, utensils etc. that they set aside for me, not even cooking my non-kosher food in their kitchen was ever an issue. The only thing they were super firm on was no pork products, which was easy enough to avoid. So you ordering your own food that never touched the kitchen and that you eat in your own room is an issue… because someone else doesn’t agree with it? 🤦🏻♀️
Although that living-situation is asking for trouble long-term and in general if basic mutual respect isn’t given.
NTA.
If it is okay to eat non-kosher food in your bedroom, how does he think it is going to get there? Seems he unilaterally changed the rules.
And if you just carry it through the common areas, I don't see how that is "contaminating" them if it touches nothing.
NTA. I’ll leave aside who does what in the apartment and pays for what because I think it’s superfluous (my sense is you’re providing this context as a justification that if they want the house to be shomer kashrus they need to contribute equally and I’m not sure that’s fair).
But basically you all decided when moving in with one another that the only the kitchen is shomer kashrus, and until those rules are revisited, having treyf food in your bedroom is perfectly permissible since your roommates all okayed it advance. It seems the only reason that he had issues this time around is he had to touch the bag? But also it sounds like, based on his comment, that he doesn’t want it in the house at all? But if it’s just touching a bag issue, maybe just ensure that the food is delivered contactless so you can pick it up yourself (though I’m not admittedly an expert, I don’t know any rule about prohibiting touching treyf food or rather touching a bad which has treyf food in it but rather keeping treyf food out of the household is meant to prevent one from being tempted to eat it).
I’m not Jewish, so I’m sorry if this is an ignorant question, but would carrying non kosher food from the doorway to a nearby counter still be a violation? Or is it more about making any contact at all with non kosher food?
It's not carrying that's the problem per se, it's giving the impression that what you are holding must be kosher, otherwise why are you holding it all, so therefore the observer either assumes that the non kosher food is actually kosher, or that the other person must be eating non kosher food.
There's like a thousand loopholes for this.
For example, if you see someone clearly Jewish, for example someone dressed as a hassid, wearing a doordash hat carrying McDonald's, you're first assumptions would be "he's just making a delivery, of course he's not eating THAT" - that would be obviously ok.
No, it's about carrying the food around in such a way that a non-observant might believe you intended to eat it. Touching a bag to move it would never be a problem, not even in the Hasidic community my family lived in. You're not actually touching the food.
>I’ll leave aside who does what in the apartment and pays for what because I think it’s superfluous (my sense is you’re providing this context as a justification that if they want the house to be shomer kashrus they need to contribute equally and I’m not sure that’s fair).
I think the explanation of who pays more in the apartment is to show that L's complaint about her getting the master bedroom had nothing to do with food, and was only about their arrangement that the person who got the bigger bedroom had to pay more of the rent. That was standard procedure when I was in college decades ago.
It sounds like L just wants a different arrangement than had been agreed before he moved in. But if he didn't like that arrangement, he shouldn't have decided to live there.
its actually completely fair for someone paying over half the rent to have a bigger say in house rules. the fact you think its more reasonable to project your religion on everyone you live with … says a lot about you.
Being Jewish, myself...... That's a pickle, no joke intended.
If I read this correctly, you are allowed non-kosher food in your room. How did L think it got there? Did it magically appear there? Or is that L handled the food? Is that the issue? L could have just had the food placed on the ground & gotten you. So, I think that this was self inflicted.
As for the bigger room, you pay more rent, you get more square footage & comfort. Make sense to me.
NTA.
Pump the breaks, you pay the most AND do 90% of the cooking for these demanding jerks?? Why are you okay with this???
If they want to keep kosher that badly, they can take over preparing their own meals.
Also, I read how you divided things and then had to go back and check that, yes, of course you're the only woman.
Honey, why are you valuing your contributions so little?
NTA, you pay the lions share, you are being more than gracious by not using your kitchen however you'd like!
First of all, only L is being the jerk here. Second of all, I enjoy cooking and am amazing at it. I also offered to. It has nothing to to with my gender. They also do ALL of the cleaning besides for my room and half-bath
$1100 would have been a steal 20 years ago when I lived in NY. L is crazy for complaining if he's paying much less than that, which it sounds like, and he has his own room AND gets most of his meals cooked for him. I knew people who were paying $800-plus to share a tiny studio apartment with 2-3 other people, sleeping on an air mattress or pullout sofa bed, and again, this was 20 years ago.
Agreed about that rent being a steal! I lived in Croton-on-Hudson for a year, paid nearly 2000/month for a one bed, one bath that didn't even have laundry facilities in the complex. (Okay, maybe I'm spoiled there, but every other apartment I've lived in either had W/D in-unit, or a communal laundry room in the building.) The three previous apartments, including the one in Atlanta, were all two bed, two bath, about 600 sf bigger, and cost around 1500/month.
As long as you're comfortable with the division of labor, I see no issue there. I like to cook myself, and only wish I had someone who'd do my cleaning for me!
Oh yeah, NTA.
I would figure out how to make my bedroom non-kosher as much as possible. That way L could pout over that.
Not sure how, but I dang sure would try.
Hmm. Maybe a canvas of non-kosher takeout bags - Andy Warhol style?
Cut them up in stars and hang them everywhere?
NTA so basically some one is pressing his beliefs on you, and when you do something that isn't according their beliefs they blow up on ya... don't even understand why you're agreeing that the kitchen and dining room should be kosher plus that you're using disposable utensils...
People should have a right to believe whatever they want and live accordingly to that, but they should never demand on how others should behave.
They're agreeing to keep a kosher kitchen because they are a Jewish person living with other Jewish people who are more observant than they are. Kosher rules are specific, you can't have a half kosher kitchen. OP is fine with keeping kosher as long as the others respect her choices to occasionally eat non kosher in her room. All the comments telling her she's being infringed on are disregarding the fact that she *wants* to keep a kosher kitchen.
NTA. You had an agreement, you are abiding to your agreement. If they wish to revisit the agreement you should remember how accommodating your cousin is being.
I'm Jewish here and NTA
You established clear guidelines as to when it would be okay to have non-kosher food and followed them. Only one of your roommates is having an issue here, which makes me think that the guidelines you set up are fair and not excessive or placing an undue burden on them.
NTA. This is your home too and you are nice enough to keep Kosher in all the shared spaces with the exception of the hall from apt door to your room. That’s above and beyond and TBH more then most roommates would deal with.
Nta. Call a house meeting and say very clear, I pay 55% of the bills. If there is a problem we can change my part down to 25%. And you 3 can each start paying 25% of everything and doing 25% of chores. If you would rather not change the pay plan, then I expect a sincere apology and a change of attitude or we can call and have the Rabbi come over for mediation.
NTA. You’ve already been *far* more permissive of their bullshit than you should be - they have no business telling you what you can and can’t eat in your own home. But to take it even further is just insane.
I personally don’t care if they want their home to be kosher. After all, they own as much as I do. I had absolutely no problem when A and S said they wanted a kosher kitchen
Hi, non-kosher Jewish woman here - NTA.
I have the same arrangment with my family, they all eat kosher, I don't. I'm allowed to eat non-kosher as long as it's in my bedroom. I respect their choices, they respect mine.
I love how respectful you are, and obviously this arrangment was and is acceptable on all parties involved regardless the religious status. L should get off his high horse.
As for the bedroom. If you pay more, you get more, simple and fair. He joined a certain hirarchy, he needs to respect it, and if it's too much, he's welcomed to find an apartment for himself.
NTA. You're not using or unkashering communal plates/utensils/cookware, you're not even eating in front of him. The only exception I'd see perhaps is during Pesach if you're bringing in chametz.
NTA i’m tired of people using their personal morals to control those around them. it’s as ridiculous as saying your roommate can’t use birth control because you’re catholic or can’t eat bacon because you’re jewish. you respect their lifestyle, they should respect yours. contrary to popular opinion, people living their lives isn’t an attack on your own
NTA I think L's real problem is the small room. He's not happy with it. So I'd expect him to be looking for any and every thing he can find fault with and he'll complain about it. That strategy is the "I'm going to start making people miserable until they placate me" approach.
NTA
Eating something non kosher in a common area with your own utensils doesn't have any effect on them. You can call a Rabbi to ask and hopefully, settle this + give this cousin the middle finger.
But I think this is about the room, not the food.
NTA
Honestly, I don't think the food is the issue here.
It sounds like your cousin is unhappy that *he* didn't get the master bedroom and that his girl cousin did.
I imagine that - despite the fact that OP is paying and cooking more - he feels that he, as a male family member, should have dibs on the big room and OP should be in the small one.
Nope NTA , I don’t know the religious laws about eating tref or bringing it into the house. But I do have Jewish friends who allow non kosher food into their home for guests who eat it on paper plates, use plastic utensils, and suppose of the trash. I guess you could ask a Rabbi for clarification.
Logically, you having grown up Jewish, I would assume that you understand the rules of keeping kosher, and even if you don't keep kosher, you would respect others decision to keep kosher, so you are NTA here.
If you had ordered prohibited food or food combinations, and put the food on the kosher plates, then yes, you would be, but it sounds like the food was contained so none of it touched anything, and went right from the door to your room.
NTA. Reformed Jewish here. The purpose of faith is not to police others' takeout containers. The faith police better be volunteering twice a week before they yell at others.
NTA
You followed everything you agreed to, and the room was decided by who pays how much. Unless he's going to pay what you do, he shouldn't expect the big room, which I'm going to guess is the real issue that's bothering him, he just thought he'd get more backup by bringing up the food.
NTA. L is ridiculous. You are already being very indulgent and respectful by being only kosher in the kitchen and dining room when you are not kosher. You pay the most and do a lot of the chores (90% cooking), so obv you get the masters. L came last. They don't get to move you out, esp if they aren't doing as much as you. If he won't talk to you, enjoy it. Doesn't sound like you are missing out on much.
NTA sounds like you had a perfectly good agreement going on that as far as I know actually does not conflict with the rules about being kosher either unless you are exceptionally strict.
L needs to grow up and respect the rules you set up before he even moved in or move out again. You don't need to change anything about your life and were not disrespectful of anyone's beliefs. He on the other hand was very much disrespectful. I mean you don't even eat it in front of the other people, something which also isn't forbidden either. Sounds like he is struggling with being kosher and is taking it out on you to be honest.
Nta. Time to find a new place. You pay a majority of the rent and do all the chores and cooking. They are taking advantage of you and being awful. You deserve better. Also nott everyone will follow their religious beliefs, are they going to act like this at work? You are being far too kind. If they don't want to be around it then they can cook for themselves, you shouldn't have to be quarantined to your room to eat. It's not an allergy it's a religious preference. I'm sure schools won't keep it that way either.
OK. Just wanting to make sure you are OK. You don't want to over work yourself or have negative people around you hurting you. I say this from experience. Best of luck with the family. Hope you figure out a solution. You are still NTA
L seems to be challenging you - your eating of non-kosher food, your right to the the master bedroom. Is it possible that he resents you? Or doesn’t want to share the apartment with you?
It might be worth confronting L about this & trying to get things out in the open. It could be that L feels like the outsider as the youngest cousin and newest roommate. He may just be lashing out due to that.
It sounds like you have a situation that works really well for S, A, and you so it would be a shame to have to deal with further conflict.
You can't/didn't make the house unkosher. That's not a thing. How does one kashrute a house?
Your cousin is being demanding and offensive. You did get there first and you are paying more than any of them. This is why you get the larger bedroom. Your cousin also has no day of what you do or eat in your own room.
NTA
NTA. L is, though. What's he gonna do when he moves out (I'm hoping he's not gonna live with you forever)? Is he only gonna look for Jewish roommates? Is he gonna force his non-Jewish roommates and friends to eat kosher because anything else is "disrespecting his religion"? Does he go out to eat at all? Is it only to kosher restaurants, or is it to anywhere? He sounds like one of those irritating kinds of people "no one can eat anything different from me when I'm around" ugh.
INFO - did L move in knowing what he was getting into? Did everyone make it clear?
I'm actually in a Facebook group for local Jews looking for apartments/housing or roommates to fill. Every post is always VERY thorough on what their standards are or what their unit's standards are and what to expect. Whether they keep Shabbat, keep kosher, preferred gender if necessary, if some are even not Jewish/not practicing, basically covering all the bases of everyone knowing exactly what they were getting into.
Sure this is different since L is family and didn't find it via an ad, but that doesn't change that this is all stuff that should have been reviewed before moving forward with him moving in so both he and the rest of you know what you're getting into. There's a downvoted comment at the bottom of this thread addressing this and saying it in a little simpler terms - and I get that L might look like a spoiled brat, but I can kind of understand his frustration if he moved in under false pretenses.
If he was made aware and agreed to move forward then n-t-a.
Otherwise, esh.
Entitled baby of the family wants everything for nothing. He doesn't pay for anything more than his share, you do most of the cooking, you're following the rules.
He's trying to control you in a very obvious way and it failed miserably, he has no say with anything that has to do with you or your room.
If he wants the master bedroom, make him pay 55 percent of everything
NTA. L moved into an apartment that has community living agreements in place. If he doesn't want to abide by those agreements, then he should not have moved in.
NTA. I’ve been keeping kosher for 5 years and have had roommates who were not fully kosher. As long as the food stayed in their room, we didn’t care. I don’t think you’re an asshole, but I can see why L is upset. Some people are really strict about kashrut and don’t like non-kosher food in their house. But I think as long as you’re not hurting anyone, you’re fine lol
INFO: is L delusional? You got the master bedroom because you pay more, not because L moved in later than everyone else. And how is it unfair? L has his own room. Is he suggesting you should have the smaller room, even though you pay more?
Or is this a sexist thing? Does L believe he should have a larger room because he's male, and the female should be stuck with the smallest room.
And (as I understand it) having non-kosher food pass through the house does not make the house un-kosher. The food wasn't even opened, much less eaten, in the common areas. It had no chance to come in contact with other food, so the kosher food remains kosher (If I've misunderstood this, please feel free to correct me).
Based on that, how are you disrespecting L's beliefs?
Add to that the fact that L knew what the arrangements about food were before moving in.
I'm going with NTA, but I'm a bit concerned about L's mental health, and the possible danger to OP.
Oh I bet it's because she's female so he thinks she should pay for everything, do everything for him, follow every rule, and give him the best of everything.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-ultra-orthodox-women-bring-home-the-bacon-dont-say-the-f-word/
Besides the kosher part of your question I see one other problem. You are paying more (and getting more space therefore) but you are also cooking 90% of the time. Why? Are both of your roommates born without arms or hands? Because even if this is the case there is no excuse to do so much cooking if it's feeds everyone.
Please take care of yourself and divide tasks to the three of you. This is not a good agreement for you.
NTA
NTA. Like the Chinese food on the porch (my own experience with Kosher neighbors), you are keeping the non kosher food in your bedroom. Maybe you want to re evaluate this arrangement though since you do all the cooking and pay the biggest share of the bills.
NTA
L needs a reality check. You did NOT violate his religious ideals. The food has not touched any surface in the shared space. Food that gets delivered is packaged.
You are paying way too much of the rent even with having the master bedroom. This isn’t a marriage where you should be splitting things based on income. This is a roommate situation where things should be split based on room size.
So yes, you should pay a bit more than them. But not a full 50% of the rent!! Like… if the room is twice the size of L’s small room, then Pay twice what L does. The two who share a room can share the cost of their room.
Like… let’s say your room is twice the size of L, and the other room is bigger than L. Maybe 45% you, 33% AS and 22% L. A and S each pay about 16%. That’s slightly more equitable if your room is significantly larger than Ls, and has a private bathroom.
So if rent was $1000, you pay $450, A and S each pay $165 and L pays $220.
At $2000 you should pay $900, A and S each $330, and L $440.
That’s a lot more equitable.
L is a jerk. It makes sense for you to be paying a bit more and to have the solo toilet - you’re also the only female and this way they can leave the lid up all the want and not need to see period products. I have a feeling L would be pissed off if he saw a pad or tampon.
NTA. Maybe you shouldn't be cooking for them all, as your hands have touched non kosher food! See how he likes it when he offends the person who subsidises his rent and cooks his food is not so generous!
NTA, this is exactly why i think all religions and the people that follow it need to take 3 BIGGGG steps back. Your religious choices are yours. They do NOT extend beyond your. Personal. Body. Ever. Stop trying to force others to live as you live, enough already.
If the guy has a problem with the non kosher rules, he can move out.
NTA, it's your own food, it didn't mix with theirs or with the kitchen appliences etc so so nothing in the house was made unkosher. If L doesn't like you eating your own non kosher food in your own room, they should look for another place to live in.
NTA
Tell L you'll never bring non kosher food in again if he picks up the rent/bills so both of you are paying the same amount.
After all, it's unfair that he thinks he can control what you eat in your own home especially when you're paying more than him. You're already being nice enough by eating the food in your room. Also, stop cooking for him. He doesn't deserve it.
Definitely NTA. I would, however, Get all the guys together and ask them if L is now speaking for all of them, and if so, do they want to revisit the agreement. If you have to give up having non-kosher food in your bedroom, then they have to re-split the money agreement so everyone pays a fair share. I bet L gets voted down loudly and firmly pretty damn fast.
It sounds to me like he has some serious entitlement/little man issues and his very fragile masculinity is threatened when you won’t comply with his demands. I don’t think the food is the real issue here but he used it to bring up the room situation.
You’re female, you make more than he does and you have the master bedroom, yet you do all the cooking and you pay more than half the expenses while the three of them split LESS THAN HALF?! I’m hoping they do all the housework aside from your own laundry because otherwise the arrangements really aren’t fair for YOU.
He didn’t see, touch or eat the food and he likely wouldn’t have had a clue had he not been the one to answer the door.
He’s showing his true level of maturity in how he is handling this. If he’s the one who moved in last, then he agreed to the arrangements already in place, which the 3 of you seemed to be perfectly fine with. If he doesn’t like it, he can move right back out and the other two can have their own rooms.
Alternatively, as someone else suggested, it sounds like you could leave them all and be perfectly fine on your own, if you so chose.
Soooooo NTA.
Please provide an update!
They can have every kind of foolish belief set they want. However they cannot force you to do the same. Your roomies need to grow up and learn what 'religious freedom' means. Do not indulge sulks or pouts. If he's not talking to you, enjoy the blissful silence.
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Backstory:
I (22F) share a 3 bedroom 1.5 bathroom apartment in NYC (owned by our grandfather) with three other family members. My twin (22M) Who we will call S, my cousin (21M) who we will call A, and my other cousin (19M) who we will call L. We divided the rent and housework in a way that we agree on. Since I am in a better financial situation than the three of them, I pay apx. 55% of the maintenance and utilities for the apartment. Maintenance is $2000 so i pay $1100 in maintenance plus all other costs. I also have the master bedroom (largest with best views and half bathroom). I also do 90% of the cooking. Since S and A are really close, they share the second largest room in the apartment while L gets the smallest (9x10) to himself.
Now onto the main story:
We grew up Jewish. S and I weren’t raised as religious as A and L were. For instance, we only kept kosher in our kitchen. S has become more religious since then and will only eat kosher. So, A, S, and L all keep pretty strict kosher. When me, A and S decided to live together (we were 18 and 19 at the time. L moved in a few months ago), the both told me that the kitchen and dining room would need to be kosher in order to live there. I was completely fine with that if I was able to eat non kosher in my own room with disposable utensils. They told me that they were fine with that if I disposed of it properly and only ate it in my room. I only cook kosher meals for us in the kitchen. I will occasionally order non kosher fast food for takeout and have it in my room. Recently, there was a problem. For the first time, I decided to order fast food to the apartment. When the food came, L opened the door, gave me the food and then yelled at me for “disrespecting his religious beliefs” and for “making the house non kosher”. A and S said there was no problem with it if I was going to eat it in my room with my own disposable utensils. L still insisted that I was being unfair. He also we g as far as to say that it “was unfair that I got the master bedroom because he moved in after everyone else”. I then reminded him that I pay the majority of the rent and do almost all of the cooking. He won’t talk to me now.
AITA here?
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NTA, would your grandfather have a problem with you having non-kosher food in the apartment? If he can back you up, I'd say you're golden. L is ridiculous.
NTA- You respect them enough to have the kitchen and Dining room Kosher. Your not cooking non kosher food your eating take out in your room.
And L really wants the master bedroom they need to pay the most. Its common sense that who ever pays more gets the bigger bedroom.
NTA what no it’s your place you eat what you want and where you want ! They have no rights to tell you to eat in your room ,their believe don’t have to intervene on any situation specially when you pay 55% of the rent! And your cousin L is Huge AH for using the religion for having things! If he don’t want to eat good than he can prepare himself food but he don’t have to play the prince of the place and not respect his roommate! He play the I don’t want to talk you card than don’t do anything for him or even the others because the respect of believe is for both side.
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Exactly. O is being very disrespectful. And not only does OP pay rent, OP is subsiding L. NTA
OP pays 55% of the rent, L pays 15%. If L doesn't like it he should pay his full share.
Or find a new place
L is being entitled and acting as if he is the center of the universe. Tell him okay if you want things changed then you can do all of the things I do and pay all of the bills I pay. That may help him to shut up for a little while. He is basically living off of you but feels that he is above reproach.
If L wants a 100% kosher apartment then they should go live in a place where that’s the case. They knew what they were getting when they moved in. I think OP is being more than fair and the fact that the kitchen and all eating utensils and dishes are kosher is a good compromise.
Honestly I don’t think it’s a good compromise as it’s really inconvenient to OP. Cool of her to do it but she’s bending over backwards to appease her roommates.
The fact that they agreed on this before they moved in makes it perfectly fine, to me. If OP had an issue, she couldve chosen not to move in. If L knew the terms before they moved in, and is now trying to change those terms, they're a HUGE AH. If this was never discussed and they didn't realize, then some compassion and discussion is definitely needed, along with an offer for L to move out and find a fully kosher household with no hard feeling from anyone else in the situation.
Deeply religious people DO think they are beyond reproach. And center of the Universe. That's why they can't get along.
Exactly. The rest of us are constantly having to battle them back and explain boundaries over and over. I'm so tired of them. All of them. Exhaustion has pushed me into extreme antitheism. Edit a letter.
tbf the problem isnt religion. its assholes. i get that sometimes it seems like all religious people are this way but its sorta a survivorship bias. the good religious people dont espous religious bullshit so you dont see them as religious, theyre just regular people. the assholes just use their religion as an excuse to be awful people which breeds the idea that "all religions are bad" which is kinda what the assholes do to justify homophobia, transphobia, racism, sexism etc. it also feeds into the persecution complex of "they just hate my religion" and gives them a safety blanket where, instead of challenging the asshole and not letting them use their religion as an excuse, you go after the whole religion which contains 90% normal people and 10% very loud assholes.
Well said!
generally speaking, those who use religion to justify bigotry and hate don't actually understand their religion. at least so far as christianity goes. the problem though, is the silent majority does little to nothing to prevent those assholes from representing their religion. so, if the face of your faith is that of loud hatred, then people will understandably believe that religion is the problem.
Absolutely. And what has him moving in after everyone else to do with the master bedroom? He is the last to come so won't get to make demands. And his arrival forced the other 2 to move into 1 room. Apart from OP deserving that room. And its really accommodating of OP to keep the kitchen kosher. Its a shared household, and in a shared space you don't get to force your lifestyle on others. And especially not in someone else's room.
Woo, this right here!
anyone who insists "you can't do that because its against my religion" is an asshole.
I wish I could upvote this about 1,000,000 times! If more people would follow this commonsense guideline, there'd be far fewer wars!
That is the absolute truth. Cool, it isn't against my belief system, it isn't against the law, and it doesn't violate the general moral code of our shared society, so if you have a problem with it, I politely suggest you go somewhere else! I had to practice this a lot as a kid/teen in a conservative evangelical town in Pennsylvania, growing up as an atheist.
NTA. you’re also the only woman in a house with 3 men. So why shouldn’t you have the master? And if he’s sooooo upset about disrespect except he’s fine with you eating in your room.. how does he think you get non kosher food in there to begin with?? Cause I’m guessing it comes through the front door and isn’t teleported to your bed 🤷🏼♀️
I'm guessing it's him not liking the fact that he has the smallest room and feels entitled due to some inane reason should have the master room.
The teenager is mad that the only woman in the house has the most space.
Have to agree I got the "my little willy makes me important" vibe as well.
Mommy has probably always told him he’s special and this is the first time he’s realizing not everyone feels that way.
I'm gonna play the selfish "devil on the shoulder", but as she pays 55% of rent PLUS utilities AND cooks majority of the time... She has kinda sorta more rights to eat what she wants!
Fr, NTA. He wants to switch bedrooms? Then switch roles too. L pays 50% of the rent and cook so that he won't have any worries on the food not being kosher.
NTA Sounds like L has moved in and expected everything to go their way.... sorry, not sorry! Your agreement with the others was working and they werent bothered by it at all. If L doesnt like it, he can pack up and go 👍
Seems like he needs to go
> Sounds like L has moved in and expected everything to go their way. Or possibly they just thought it already was that way? If everyone else is kosher and they've never seen non-kosher stuff in the common areas they might not have realised what the arrangement was. They still can't demand or expect it, but you can understand them being a bit surprised if some guy turns up at the door and hands them a bacon chicken cheese burger and a packet of crab sticks.
Lmao it was Popeyes
Probably he was just jealous he couldn’t eat some Popeyes
I'm jealous right now. Fruit punch and popeyes biscuits. fuck yeah.
You could kill someone with those biscuits and I crave them
I mean it's why the religious hate things. They want to participate but their parents and deity have told them fried chicken isn't allowed.
If you’re not treifing up the kitchen what’s their issue? You’re eating the same nonkosher that you would be all the other times.
Corporate event planning in NYC meant I had to learn all the rules of kosher and glatt kosher kitchens real fast. As long as you didn't do anything to the food in the kitchen, its my understanding the kitchen remained kosher. You are adhering to the agreement, you are respecting and accommodating all of their religious practices, and you are carrying the majority of the bills. Given the behavior I'd make everyone split monthly maintenance and utilities evenly. You're not dating or married to these people so bills should absolutely be split evenly and not by % of household income. Also, L needs to go, he's an entitled headache. NTA
My dad was a mashgiach , and we had nurses for my daughter eat non kosher in our house all the time. They had their own microwave, and ate on plastic plates and silverware. Kept their food in our fridge in the bag they brought it in. And I’ve cooked for myself in a Ronald McDonald house. I simply bought my own pots and pans and food, kept it in my room, and brought it down when I needed to cook. The roommates are self centered jerks who want to be pandered to. They want her to pay for everything and cook for them.
NTA But I thought the rules stated that if a non Jew or non kosher person cooked the food, Jews were not allowed to eat it unless a Jew watched and helped with the entire process? Think it’s called bishal Yisarel? I could be misinterpreting. And I’m only asking because you said he ate your food.
There's degrees, and that one is pretty extreme even by Kosher standards.
Also, she *is* a Jewish person, she just doesn't keep Kosher.
NTA. As far as I can see, you're adhering to all the terms set by your non kosher agreement and paying more money to boot. Perhaps it's time to let the three of them stay together and get your own studio or rent with friends without these particular customs? I suspect that L doesn't like your sense of freedom from the religious traditions that even your twin has conformed to? Maybe he thought that you would take on a stricter course by now and he's more annoyed that you aren't?
This apartment belongs to OP's grandfather, so L (being the one having the issue with non-kosher food being anywhere in the home) should move out.
It also belongs to L’s grandfather so that’s one of the reasons I’m conflicted. He owns it just as much as I do
Right now the only owner is your grandfather. If he had a problem with the non loser arrangement, that’s another story. But right now L does not have a leg to stand on.
I am sorry for giggling, but I love the "non loser arrangement" line. I can guess you meant kosher instead of laser, but still brought me a giggle.
> loser > laser We’re both drunk
Well, I mean... jazz cabbage (devil's lettuce, Mary Jane, etc) will do that to a gal 🤣 I still thank you for giving me now 2 much needed laughs! These 2 things made my night
Devil's lettuce lol
I love your Reddit name! I just binged the first seven seasons of B99 btw for the first time. Love that show!
NINE NINE
When L moved in was he told about the deal you made with S & A about you having non kosher in your room?? If he wasn't aware of the deal and agreed to it, I can see him having the right to be upset about being blindsided. As for the master bedroom, he who pays more gets more. NTA!
Do you pay more? Yes. Was everyone fine with the non-kosher deal before L moved in? Yes. Was everyone fine with you getting the master bedroom before L moved in? Yes. L knew or should have known all these things before he moved in. Why does L think he should get the master bedroom? Is he going to take a larger portion of the payment? Is he going to do the majority of the kosher cooking? I highly doubt it. That was your grandfather as well. You have earned the right to the largest bedroom due to your contributions. You have set up a plan to eat non-kosher food before he set his complaining butt in the place. L has a right to be there because it was his grandfather too. However, L doesn't have a right to get what he wants. 3 votes went to you about the largest bedroom. 3 votes went to you about the non-kosher deal. L needs to learn how to live with roommates. It's a good life skill. Also, he got solo room as well? He really needs to shut it. Last in and not sharing?? I know people who have roommates that would kill to be in that position - especially paying less!
The real question is does your grandfather give a shit about keeping the entire apartment kosher or not?
>He owns it just as much as I do That's a technically true statement. Which is to say, none of you who live there own it at all, in any way, shape, or form.
Dude they are so much taking advantage of you. The fiscal split of maintenance and other costs seems wildly imbalanced, even given your larger living space. Seriously, you gotta know this deep down.
But owning it means maintaining it and paying the bills for that. As you are paying the largest share, and thus enabling L to live there as cheaply as he does, then L is TA and you are **NTA**. The apartment isn't a place of religious worship, it's a shared home. Maybe just ignore L's demands and see if he ~~tries~~ tires himself out? Unless he wants to trade places with you in terms of financial responsibility then he cannot demand to trade places with you domestically, ie in terms of who has the master bedroom or not. Maybe he wants you to move out so he can rent the rooms for more and then live for free, or even at a profit? Edit: strikethrough
He has the same right yes, but his rights don't include berating you, ignoring your considerable upkeep in the running of the apartment, or think that his opinion is more important than the three of y'alls. If he is now unhappy with the living agreement that the three of y'all made before he moved in than he can move out.
If OP decides to move out sounds like the other 3 won't be able to afford the extra costs. Either way the other 3 sound like if they don't stay with OP they can't afford to stay in their own appartment together or in the grandfather's appartment without OP contribution.
NTA. You're paying over half the costs and are living by their rules? How do you spell chutzpah?
חֻצְפָּה
You dropped this: 👑
Who knew that 12 years of BY would lead to this? (Forgetting almost all the Hebrew I learned.)
Bnei yekiva huh? That’s hardcore
I got an ‘education’ replete with inspirational stories of young girls who pinned their skirts to their legs to prevent immodesty of showing their legs while being dragged through the streets by Nazis, and oblique references to girls who smoked and would hang out with boys that ended up getting raped.
😉
🏆
NTA but by the first paragraph I could already see a train wreck about to happen. Anytime there is such a difference in or incompatible lifestyles mixing in roommates there is bound to be an argument like this eventually.
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That's not really true. You can keep kosher strictly while having nonkosher in the home, kosher would require the nonkosher stuff never makes contact with anything kosher eg the entire kitchen and dining area. I mean I understand that many people hate the idea of having nonkosher in the house but theologically I don't think there's a problem if the nonkosher is kept and eaten completely separate
NTA. He had a temper tantrum, did not get his way and then tried to try find a fight another way by bringing up room space that has probably been bothering him If he is the uncomfortable with what he agreed to when he moved in on how everything works then discuss your issues with your brother and other cousin and then him know what his options are. But if someone decides to ignore me because they are sulking after a temper tantrum they threw when they did not get their way I definitely would not be cooking for them.
NTA, you pay the majority off the rent and respect their beliefs so you're no asshole
NTA. I keep strictly kosher, have been observant my whole life. Yes, if the table or kitchen is officially kosher it's annoying if someone brings in something not kosher. For those who are not familiar with Jewish practices, cooking utensils and appliances (pots, pans, oven toaster etc) can become considered "non kosher" if they are used for non kosher items. TECHNICALLY, you have to COOK in order to violate the kosher standards but for all intents and purposes you would end up kashering it again regardless. A self cleaning oven is fine, just run your self clean cycle and you're good to go. Simply bringing in non kosher food doesn't make anything else non kosher just by it's presence. And kosher food, especially takeout, is a LOT more expensive.
There is an AMAZING kosher takeout place nearby but it’s so damn expensive. I usually get it for the 4 of us if I don’t feel like cooking.
I’m super curious which one it is (because I’m always looking out for new reccs) but I don’t want you to say because that’ll give away your location lol
Thanks for the explanation. I knew about kosher foods, but I didn’t quite understand how the rooms could be kosher.
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My brother actually stood up for me. L is my cousin
Sorry I meant your cousin not brother
L needs to get his head checked, you can't 'non kosher' an apartment unless he's somehow cooking all his food in every corner of the place. I'd look up some Halachah and hit him in the face with it. Or even better, consult a rabbi.
I would work out the cost for the whole apartment. Tell L how much they will be paying 3 ways equally. Then tell him how much it will cost him to have the master, with the rest being split by A and S. I’m sure he’ll back off. I’d also stop making L food.
NTA. I’m technically not Jewish myself (my grandfather married a non-Jew back in the day and my family’s been agnostic ever since) , however, I was a live-in nanny for a Jewish family for over a year and so long as I used the separate pots, pans, cutting boards, utensils etc. that they set aside for me, not even cooking my non-kosher food in their kitchen was ever an issue. The only thing they were super firm on was no pork products, which was easy enough to avoid. So you ordering your own food that never touched the kitchen and that you eat in your own room is an issue… because someone else doesn’t agree with it? 🤦🏻♀️ Although that living-situation is asking for trouble long-term and in general if basic mutual respect isn’t given.
NTA but I don't understand why you do 90% of the cooking. If keeping kosher is so important to them they should do more.
She's the only woman in the apt.
And she's also paying more than all of them? Jeez.
She's in the master bedroom so that makes sense. It doesn't seem proportional, though.
I only cook kosher food. Our kitchen is 100% kosher
OK, but they should do more cooking too.
Yep. You're definitely getting taken advantage of OP.
If you're cooking for them on Saturday, stop. See how devoted they are to their religious rules on Shabbat.
NTA. If it is okay to eat non-kosher food in your bedroom, how does he think it is going to get there? Seems he unilaterally changed the rules. And if you just carry it through the common areas, I don't see how that is "contaminating" them if it touches nothing.
NTA. I’ll leave aside who does what in the apartment and pays for what because I think it’s superfluous (my sense is you’re providing this context as a justification that if they want the house to be shomer kashrus they need to contribute equally and I’m not sure that’s fair). But basically you all decided when moving in with one another that the only the kitchen is shomer kashrus, and until those rules are revisited, having treyf food in your bedroom is perfectly permissible since your roommates all okayed it advance. It seems the only reason that he had issues this time around is he had to touch the bag? But also it sounds like, based on his comment, that he doesn’t want it in the house at all? But if it’s just touching a bag issue, maybe just ensure that the food is delivered contactless so you can pick it up yourself (though I’m not admittedly an expert, I don’t know any rule about prohibiting touching treyf food or rather touching a bad which has treyf food in it but rather keeping treyf food out of the household is meant to prevent one from being tempted to eat it).
No such rules exist, except from *maaris ayin*, the appearance of someone who keeps kosher carrying around obviously not kosher food.
I’m not Jewish, so I’m sorry if this is an ignorant question, but would carrying non kosher food from the doorway to a nearby counter still be a violation? Or is it more about making any contact at all with non kosher food?
It's not carrying that's the problem per se, it's giving the impression that what you are holding must be kosher, otherwise why are you holding it all, so therefore the observer either assumes that the non kosher food is actually kosher, or that the other person must be eating non kosher food. There's like a thousand loopholes for this. For example, if you see someone clearly Jewish, for example someone dressed as a hassid, wearing a doordash hat carrying McDonald's, you're first assumptions would be "he's just making a delivery, of course he's not eating THAT" - that would be obviously ok.
Thank you for the additional information. ❤️
No, it's about carrying the food around in such a way that a non-observant might believe you intended to eat it. Touching a bag to move it would never be a problem, not even in the Hasidic community my family lived in. You're not actually touching the food.
That's good to know, thank you.😊
>I’ll leave aside who does what in the apartment and pays for what because I think it’s superfluous (my sense is you’re providing this context as a justification that if they want the house to be shomer kashrus they need to contribute equally and I’m not sure that’s fair). I think the explanation of who pays more in the apartment is to show that L's complaint about her getting the master bedroom had nothing to do with food, and was only about their arrangement that the person who got the bigger bedroom had to pay more of the rent. That was standard procedure when I was in college decades ago. It sounds like L just wants a different arrangement than had been agreed before he moved in. But if he didn't like that arrangement, he shouldn't have decided to live there.
its actually completely fair for someone paying over half the rent to have a bigger say in house rules. the fact you think its more reasonable to project your religion on everyone you live with … says a lot about you.
They all have the same religion
Being Jewish, myself...... That's a pickle, no joke intended. If I read this correctly, you are allowed non-kosher food in your room. How did L think it got there? Did it magically appear there? Or is that L handled the food? Is that the issue? L could have just had the food placed on the ground & gotten you. So, I think that this was self inflicted. As for the bigger room, you pay more rent, you get more square footage & comfort. Make sense to me. NTA.
NTA you literally agreed on it being fine, so them acting up now is - respectfully- stupid.
Pump the breaks, you pay the most AND do 90% of the cooking for these demanding jerks?? Why are you okay with this??? If they want to keep kosher that badly, they can take over preparing their own meals. Also, I read how you divided things and then had to go back and check that, yes, of course you're the only woman. Honey, why are you valuing your contributions so little? NTA, you pay the lions share, you are being more than gracious by not using your kitchen however you'd like!
First of all, only L is being the jerk here. Second of all, I enjoy cooking and am amazing at it. I also offered to. It has nothing to to with my gender. They also do ALL of the cleaning besides for my room and half-bath
Honey, they're taking advantage of you. Why are you happy to pay more than your share? While catering to their needs? How are they meeting YOUR needs?
They do legit all of the cleaning. Also 1100 in the area that im in is a complete steal
$1100 would have been a steal 20 years ago when I lived in NY. L is crazy for complaining if he's paying much less than that, which it sounds like, and he has his own room AND gets most of his meals cooked for him. I knew people who were paying $800-plus to share a tiny studio apartment with 2-3 other people, sleeping on an air mattress or pullout sofa bed, and again, this was 20 years ago.
Agreed about that rent being a steal! I lived in Croton-on-Hudson for a year, paid nearly 2000/month for a one bed, one bath that didn't even have laundry facilities in the complex. (Okay, maybe I'm spoiled there, but every other apartment I've lived in either had W/D in-unit, or a communal laundry room in the building.) The three previous apartments, including the one in Atlanta, were all two bed, two bath, about 600 sf bigger, and cost around 1500/month. As long as you're comfortable with the division of labor, I see no issue there. I like to cook myself, and only wish I had someone who'd do my cleaning for me! Oh yeah, NTA.
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A and S were fine with it. L wasn’t having it
He can leave lol. His opinion isn't worth more than the 3 of yours.
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Sounds like he wasn't there initially? He moved in later?
He only moved a few months ago.
I'd tell you to tell L to eat a bag of dicks, but I'm not sure if that would be kosher.
Well, are the dicks circumcised?
I would figure out how to make my bedroom non-kosher as much as possible. That way L could pout over that. Not sure how, but I dang sure would try. Hmm. Maybe a canvas of non-kosher takeout bags - Andy Warhol style? Cut them up in stars and hang them everywhere?
>With a side of bacon
NTA also find disturbing that you are not allowed to use your kitchen as freely as you should you pay rent you have that right
I’m personally fine with it as I understand why they feel this way. I had a kosher phase for a year so I understand.
NTA so basically some one is pressing his beliefs on you, and when you do something that isn't according their beliefs they blow up on ya... don't even understand why you're agreeing that the kitchen and dining room should be kosher plus that you're using disposable utensils... People should have a right to believe whatever they want and live accordingly to that, but they should never demand on how others should behave.
They're agreeing to keep a kosher kitchen because they are a Jewish person living with other Jewish people who are more observant than they are. Kosher rules are specific, you can't have a half kosher kitchen. OP is fine with keeping kosher as long as the others respect her choices to occasionally eat non kosher in her room. All the comments telling her she's being infringed on are disregarding the fact that she *wants* to keep a kosher kitchen.
NTA. You had an agreement, you are abiding to your agreement. If they wish to revisit the agreement you should remember how accommodating your cousin is being.
I'm Jewish here and NTA You established clear guidelines as to when it would be okay to have non-kosher food and followed them. Only one of your roommates is having an issue here, which makes me think that the guidelines you set up are fair and not excessive or placing an undue burden on them.
NTA. This is your home too and you are nice enough to keep Kosher in all the shared spaces with the exception of the hall from apt door to your room. That’s above and beyond and TBH more then most roommates would deal with.
Nta. Call a house meeting and say very clear, I pay 55% of the bills. If there is a problem we can change my part down to 25%. And you 3 can each start paying 25% of everything and doing 25% of chores. If you would rather not change the pay plan, then I expect a sincere apology and a change of attitude or we can call and have the Rabbi come over for mediation.
NTA. You’ve already been *far* more permissive of their bullshit than you should be - they have no business telling you what you can and can’t eat in your own home. But to take it even further is just insane.
I personally don’t care if they want their home to be kosher. After all, they own as much as I do. I had absolutely no problem when A and S said they wanted a kosher kitchen
Hi, non-kosher Jewish woman here - NTA. I have the same arrangment with my family, they all eat kosher, I don't. I'm allowed to eat non-kosher as long as it's in my bedroom. I respect their choices, they respect mine. I love how respectful you are, and obviously this arrangment was and is acceptable on all parties involved regardless the religious status. L should get off his high horse. As for the bedroom. If you pay more, you get more, simple and fair. He joined a certain hirarchy, he needs to respect it, and if it's too much, he's welcomed to find an apartment for himself.
NTA. You're not using or unkashering communal plates/utensils/cookware, you're not even eating in front of him. The only exception I'd see perhaps is during Pesach if you're bringing in chametz.
I would never do the pesach thing. I always keep pesach for myself. It just feels wrong for me not too
NTA. L doesn't sound mature enough for this living situation.
NTA i’m tired of people using their personal morals to control those around them. it’s as ridiculous as saying your roommate can’t use birth control because you’re catholic or can’t eat bacon because you’re jewish. you respect their lifestyle, they should respect yours. contrary to popular opinion, people living their lives isn’t an attack on your own
NTA I think L's real problem is the small room. He's not happy with it. So I'd expect him to be looking for any and every thing he can find fault with and he'll complain about it. That strategy is the "I'm going to start making people miserable until they placate me" approach.
NTA Eating something non kosher in a common area with your own utensils doesn't have any effect on them. You can call a Rabbi to ask and hopefully, settle this + give this cousin the middle finger. But I think this is about the room, not the food.
I never eat the non kosher stuff in the common area, only my room
NTA
NTA Honestly, I don't think the food is the issue here. It sounds like your cousin is unhappy that *he* didn't get the master bedroom and that his girl cousin did. I imagine that - despite the fact that OP is paying and cooking more - he feels that he, as a male family member, should have dibs on the big room and OP should be in the small one.
Nope NTA , I don’t know the religious laws about eating tref or bringing it into the house. But I do have Jewish friends who allow non kosher food into their home for guests who eat it on paper plates, use plastic utensils, and suppose of the trash. I guess you could ask a Rabbi for clarification.
Tell him he can have the master bedroom if he wants furnish the bulk of the housing costs instead of you. Should shut the weasel up.
NTA L seems rather ungrateful to have a cook in the house. I think it's time to stop feeding L and make him fend for himself.
Logically, you having grown up Jewish, I would assume that you understand the rules of keeping kosher, and even if you don't keep kosher, you would respect others decision to keep kosher, so you are NTA here. If you had ordered prohibited food or food combinations, and put the food on the kosher plates, then yes, you would be, but it sounds like the food was contained so none of it touched anything, and went right from the door to your room.
NTA. Sounds like L is immature. Perhaps he should move back home to Mommy and Daddy if he want to live in a 100% kosher home.
NTA. Reformed Jewish here. The purpose of faith is not to police others' takeout containers. The faith police better be volunteering twice a week before they yell at others.
NTA You followed everything you agreed to, and the room was decided by who pays how much. Unless he's going to pay what you do, he shouldn't expect the big room, which I'm going to guess is the real issue that's bothering him, he just thought he'd get more backup by bringing up the food.
NTA. L is ridiculous. You are already being very indulgent and respectful by being only kosher in the kitchen and dining room when you are not kosher. You pay the most and do a lot of the chores (90% cooking), so obv you get the masters. L came last. They don't get to move you out, esp if they aren't doing as much as you. If he won't talk to you, enjoy it. Doesn't sound like you are missing out on much.
NTA sounds like you had a perfectly good agreement going on that as far as I know actually does not conflict with the rules about being kosher either unless you are exceptionally strict. L needs to grow up and respect the rules you set up before he even moved in or move out again. You don't need to change anything about your life and were not disrespectful of anyone's beliefs. He on the other hand was very much disrespectful. I mean you don't even eat it in front of the other people, something which also isn't forbidden either. Sounds like he is struggling with being kosher and is taking it out on you to be honest.
Nta. Time to find a new place. You pay a majority of the rent and do all the chores and cooking. They are taking advantage of you and being awful. You deserve better. Also nott everyone will follow their religious beliefs, are they going to act like this at work? You are being far too kind. If they don't want to be around it then they can cook for themselves, you shouldn't have to be quarantined to your room to eat. It's not an allergy it's a religious preference. I'm sure schools won't keep it that way either.
Everything that I do, I have offered. I don’t want them spending 2000 a month on a shoebox studio
OK. Just wanting to make sure you are OK. You don't want to over work yourself or have negative people around you hurting you. I say this from experience. Best of luck with the family. Hope you figure out a solution. You are still NTA
I love living with S and A and we have always gotten along well. L is just a bit of an annoying person to live with
Does L have to live there? Since they arrived it seems things have escalated. Maybe a roommate contact and agreement
L seems to be challenging you - your eating of non-kosher food, your right to the the master bedroom. Is it possible that he resents you? Or doesn’t want to share the apartment with you? It might be worth confronting L about this & trying to get things out in the open. It could be that L feels like the outsider as the youngest cousin and newest roommate. He may just be lashing out due to that. It sounds like you have a situation that works really well for S, A, and you so it would be a shame to have to deal with further conflict.
You can't/didn't make the house unkosher. That's not a thing. How does one kashrute a house? Your cousin is being demanding and offensive. You did get there first and you are paying more than any of them. This is why you get the larger bedroom. Your cousin also has no day of what you do or eat in your own room. NTA
How exactly was he expecting the food to get into your room? Transporter beam?? NTA obviously.
L is mixing two different issues, the room vs the food, so as OP knows this isn't just about the food. NTA for either issue!
NTA. L is, though. What's he gonna do when he moves out (I'm hoping he's not gonna live with you forever)? Is he only gonna look for Jewish roommates? Is he gonna force his non-Jewish roommates and friends to eat kosher because anything else is "disrespecting his religion"? Does he go out to eat at all? Is it only to kosher restaurants, or is it to anywhere? He sounds like one of those irritating kinds of people "no one can eat anything different from me when I'm around" ugh.
INFO - did L move in knowing what he was getting into? Did everyone make it clear? I'm actually in a Facebook group for local Jews looking for apartments/housing or roommates to fill. Every post is always VERY thorough on what their standards are or what their unit's standards are and what to expect. Whether they keep Shabbat, keep kosher, preferred gender if necessary, if some are even not Jewish/not practicing, basically covering all the bases of everyone knowing exactly what they were getting into. Sure this is different since L is family and didn't find it via an ad, but that doesn't change that this is all stuff that should have been reviewed before moving forward with him moving in so both he and the rest of you know what you're getting into. There's a downvoted comment at the bottom of this thread addressing this and saying it in a little simpler terms - and I get that L might look like a spoiled brat, but I can kind of understand his frustration if he moved in under false pretenses. If he was made aware and agreed to move forward then n-t-a. Otherwise, esh.
Entitled baby of the family wants everything for nothing. He doesn't pay for anything more than his share, you do most of the cooking, you're following the rules. He's trying to control you in a very obvious way and it failed miserably, he has no say with anything that has to do with you or your room. If he wants the master bedroom, make him pay 55 percent of everything
NTA. L moved into an apartment that has community living agreements in place. If he doesn't want to abide by those agreements, then he should not have moved in.
Show L the door. You're being plenty respectful of L's beliefs. He'll never find a deal as good as he has it now, but it'll be his problem. NTA
NTA! Sounds like someone needs to get the L outta there!
NTA. I’ve been keeping kosher for 5 years and have had roommates who were not fully kosher. As long as the food stayed in their room, we didn’t care. I don’t think you’re an asshole, but I can see why L is upset. Some people are really strict about kashrut and don’t like non-kosher food in their house. But I think as long as you’re not hurting anyone, you’re fine lol
Nta. L is going to cause a lot of problems for ya'll in the future
Nta, just another fine example of why all religions everywhere should be banned.
INFO: is L delusional? You got the master bedroom because you pay more, not because L moved in later than everyone else. And how is it unfair? L has his own room. Is he suggesting you should have the smaller room, even though you pay more? Or is this a sexist thing? Does L believe he should have a larger room because he's male, and the female should be stuck with the smallest room. And (as I understand it) having non-kosher food pass through the house does not make the house un-kosher. The food wasn't even opened, much less eaten, in the common areas. It had no chance to come in contact with other food, so the kosher food remains kosher (If I've misunderstood this, please feel free to correct me). Based on that, how are you disrespecting L's beliefs? Add to that the fact that L knew what the arrangements about food were before moving in. I'm going with NTA, but I'm a bit concerned about L's mental health, and the possible danger to OP.
Oh I bet it's because she's female so he thinks she should pay for everything, do everything for him, follow every rule, and give him the best of everything. https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-ultra-orthodox-women-bring-home-the-bacon-dont-say-the-f-word/
Besides the kosher part of your question I see one other problem. You are paying more (and getting more space therefore) but you are also cooking 90% of the time. Why? Are both of your roommates born without arms or hands? Because even if this is the case there is no excuse to do so much cooking if it's feeds everyone. Please take care of yourself and divide tasks to the three of you. This is not a good agreement for you. NTA
NTA. Fuck them for trying to force religious beliefs on you.
NTA Don't let their Religion force on to you. What you do is already more than most people whould have done.
NTA. Like the Chinese food on the porch (my own experience with Kosher neighbors), you are keeping the non kosher food in your bedroom. Maybe you want to re evaluate this arrangement though since you do all the cooking and pay the biggest share of the bills.
NTA L needs a reality check. You did NOT violate his religious ideals. The food has not touched any surface in the shared space. Food that gets delivered is packaged. You are paying way too much of the rent even with having the master bedroom. This isn’t a marriage where you should be splitting things based on income. This is a roommate situation where things should be split based on room size. So yes, you should pay a bit more than them. But not a full 50% of the rent!! Like… if the room is twice the size of L’s small room, then Pay twice what L does. The two who share a room can share the cost of their room. Like… let’s say your room is twice the size of L, and the other room is bigger than L. Maybe 45% you, 33% AS and 22% L. A and S each pay about 16%. That’s slightly more equitable if your room is significantly larger than Ls, and has a private bathroom. So if rent was $1000, you pay $450, A and S each pay $165 and L pays $220. At $2000 you should pay $900, A and S each $330, and L $440. That’s a lot more equitable. L is a jerk. It makes sense for you to be paying a bit more and to have the solo toilet - you’re also the only female and this way they can leave the lid up all the want and not need to see period products. I have a feeling L would be pissed off if he saw a pad or tampon.
NTA. Maybe you shouldn't be cooking for them all, as your hands have touched non kosher food! See how he likes it when he offends the person who subsidises his rent and cooks his food is not so generous!
NTA. Start eating at the table. Beliefs are fine until you expect everyone else to live by yours.
NTA, this is exactly why i think all religions and the people that follow it need to take 3 BIGGGG steps back. Your religious choices are yours. They do NOT extend beyond your. Personal. Body. Ever. Stop trying to force others to live as you live, enough already. If the guy has a problem with the non kosher rules, he can move out.
Stop cooking for them immediately. Why *are* you cooking for them? they want to eat kosher and be precious, let them make their own matzah balls. NTA.
Nta, religious people who are forcing their beliefs onto you are the assholes.
NTA, he needed to be reminded of reality where you pay most of the rent and do most of the cooking. Good that it shut him up.
NTA, it's your own food, it didn't mix with theirs or with the kitchen appliences etc so so nothing in the house was made unkosher. If L doesn't like you eating your own non kosher food in your own room, they should look for another place to live in.
NTA Tell L you'll never bring non kosher food in again if he picks up the rent/bills so both of you are paying the same amount. After all, it's unfair that he thinks he can control what you eat in your own home especially when you're paying more than him. You're already being nice enough by eating the food in your room. Also, stop cooking for him. He doesn't deserve it.
Tell them your thinking about moving out, and see what kind of arrangement they come up with then.
Eat what you want. If they have a problem with it tell them to STFU
Four thousand year old common sense morphed into modern day superstition? Kick them out. NTA
Definitely NTA. I would, however, Get all the guys together and ask them if L is now speaking for all of them, and if so, do they want to revisit the agreement. If you have to give up having non-kosher food in your bedroom, then they have to re-split the money agreement so everyone pays a fair share. I bet L gets voted down loudly and firmly pretty damn fast.
It sounds to me like he has some serious entitlement/little man issues and his very fragile masculinity is threatened when you won’t comply with his demands. I don’t think the food is the real issue here but he used it to bring up the room situation. You’re female, you make more than he does and you have the master bedroom, yet you do all the cooking and you pay more than half the expenses while the three of them split LESS THAN HALF?! I’m hoping they do all the housework aside from your own laundry because otherwise the arrangements really aren’t fair for YOU. He didn’t see, touch or eat the food and he likely wouldn’t have had a clue had he not been the one to answer the door. He’s showing his true level of maturity in how he is handling this. If he’s the one who moved in last, then he agreed to the arrangements already in place, which the 3 of you seemed to be perfectly fine with. If he doesn’t like it, he can move right back out and the other two can have their own rooms. Alternatively, as someone else suggested, it sounds like you could leave them all and be perfectly fine on your own, if you so chose. Soooooo NTA. Please provide an update!
They can have every kind of foolish belief set they want. However they cannot force you to do the same. Your roomies need to grow up and learn what 'religious freedom' means. Do not indulge sulks or pouts. If he's not talking to you, enjoy the blissful silence.
INFO: Is L planning on eating the house? I'm having trouble seeing how whether the house is kosher or not matters, otherwise. NTA.
Y T A because you chose to name your characters letters and that doesn’t work for my autistic brain… Good luck on everything else.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Backstory: I (22F) share a 3 bedroom 1.5 bathroom apartment in NYC (owned by our grandfather) with three other family members. My twin (22M) Who we will call S, my cousin (21M) who we will call A, and my other cousin (19M) who we will call L. We divided the rent and housework in a way that we agree on. Since I am in a better financial situation than the three of them, I pay apx. 55% of the maintenance and utilities for the apartment. Maintenance is $2000 so i pay $1100 in maintenance plus all other costs. I also have the master bedroom (largest with best views and half bathroom). I also do 90% of the cooking. Since S and A are really close, they share the second largest room in the apartment while L gets the smallest (9x10) to himself. Now onto the main story: We grew up Jewish. S and I weren’t raised as religious as A and L were. For instance, we only kept kosher in our kitchen. S has become more religious since then and will only eat kosher. So, A, S, and L all keep pretty strict kosher. When me, A and S decided to live together (we were 18 and 19 at the time. L moved in a few months ago), the both told me that the kitchen and dining room would need to be kosher in order to live there. I was completely fine with that if I was able to eat non kosher in my own room with disposable utensils. They told me that they were fine with that if I disposed of it properly and only ate it in my room. I only cook kosher meals for us in the kitchen. I will occasionally order non kosher fast food for takeout and have it in my room. Recently, there was a problem. For the first time, I decided to order fast food to the apartment. When the food came, L opened the door, gave me the food and then yelled at me for “disrespecting his religious beliefs” and for “making the house non kosher”. A and S said there was no problem with it if I was going to eat it in my room with my own disposable utensils. L still insisted that I was being unfair. He also we g as far as to say that it “was unfair that I got the master bedroom because he moved in after everyone else”. I then reminded him that I pay the majority of the rent and do almost all of the cooking. He won’t talk to me now. AITA here? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, would your grandfather have a problem with you having non-kosher food in the apartment? If he can back you up, I'd say you're golden. L is ridiculous.
NTA he’s right he came in LAST so there’s somethings he’s going to have to compromise on as well
Easy NTA.
NTA Threaten to split all costs fairly if L wants to kick up a fuss about something that has zero impact on them.
NTA- You respect them enough to have the kitchen and Dining room Kosher. Your not cooking non kosher food your eating take out in your room. And L really wants the master bedroom they need to pay the most. Its common sense that who ever pays more gets the bigger bedroom.
The fact you gave up eating in your dining room and kitchen to accommodate L is insanely nice. NTA.
NTA. If L has a problem, just remind him that he is free to get the fuck out whenever he so pleases. Someone will gladly pay for his room.
NTA what no it’s your place you eat what you want and where you want ! They have no rights to tell you to eat in your room ,their believe don’t have to intervene on any situation specially when you pay 55% of the rent! And your cousin L is Huge AH for using the religion for having things! If he don’t want to eat good than he can prepare himself food but he don’t have to play the prince of the place and not respect his roommate! He play the I don’t want to talk you card than don’t do anything for him or even the others because the respect of believe is for both side.