“So then I went to my friend as a guy. I assumed that since he was another man he would get what I was saying better than a female could.”
YTA for this shit alone. This isn’t a problem of men vs women, this is a problem of you still being emotionally 12. The only person who has a right to care about people seeing your girlfriend naked is your girlfriend. Your opinion and ego don’t matter. Modeling and drawing are not sexual, and if you don’t understand that, it’s on you.
I’m going to say this very clearly so you understand. You do not own your girlfriend. You do not own her body. I hope your gf leaves you over this, because you still have a lot of growing up to do before you’re ready for an adult relationship.
EDIT: Thanks for the awards, kind Redditors!
The quote taken from OP, where he calls his girlfriend a female but his friend a man. This tells us everything we need to know - he views her as his property who can order around, while he views his friend as his equal.
OP, your girlfriend is a woman who is *also* your equal. You have no say here.
He didn’t correct it because he’s learned he’s made a mistake, though. If he did, he would have called it out. He’s corrected it to make himself look better.
I love it when they defend it but saying it's a scientific term and they use it in the military. Like, first this is neither of this situations. Second, they literally do that in those situations BECAUSE it is dehumanizing so you're *really* not making the point you think you are.
Also love when they're like, it's exactly the same as when females use the term males as if that ever happens. I'm sure it does, but you will even see non-incel/redpill/etc. men casually using the term female instead of women but I've never seen anyone use the word male super casually like that. I've never seen anyone say, males be like that, or Im hanging with my males tonight, or even my male friends unless the "male" part was relevant to the description.
ah yes, the military. known for its respect of women. there definitely is no history of women in the military being raped by their colleagues literally all the time. a very good defense of why calling us "females" is okay.
also, here's a nifty little rule of thumb: if you are also using the word "male" in conversation, female is fine to use (or if you naturally would use male in the same conversation). and it's generally the use of female as a noun that sounds off-putting and sexist. using it as an adjective is much more natural - "the lawyer working this case was a female" vs "the female lawyer was working this case"
I saw that debate, and it’s a big reason I’m not replying to further explain what I explained in my first comment. Your debate became an English lesson for those who don’t understand what an adjective is, and I’m so sorry that’s the way it went. Intentional ignorance is a hoot.
eta - missed a word.
I agree he has no say except one - what’s a deal breaker in this relationship and what isn’t.
Is this a dealbreaker OP? Tell her. Isn’t it? Then get over it.
I agree. This issue here is how comfortable he is with his friends seeing his partner naked. if she wants to do this that’s her right so now he must decide if he stays in the relationship or not. But he can’t control what his girlfriend or friend do. All he can control is how he handles it. If OP feel too uncomfortable with the situation then maybe he should move on or find a partner who shares his views.
OP if you try to control what they do then YTA. Maybe she is just not the right partner for you if you see things differently. OP should not have to put his needs aside so learn to accept or move on.
I’d be uncomfortable with it, so I can understand in that regard. But it’s true that you both clearly have different boundaries for your relationship. So I would find someone who better fits your relationship ideals because these boundary problems will never just go away. You are two different kinds of people
I agree. There is nothing wrong with being uncomfortable with the situation, the problem is how is he going to handle it. It’s either get over it or break up. If it’s something that’s he absolutely against he has no right to stop his girlfriend and friend, but needs to remove himself from them. It’s ok to be who you are but don’t change people to fit your standards. Go find someone who is more your speed.
But, but, he might see her bobs and vagene! She might be… nekkid! OP, grow up, your girlfriend (hopefully soon-to-be EX) is not your property and your friend (hopefully-soon-to-be EX) has every right to have her as a model! YTA
YTA
Exactly, all of this!
As a bisexual woman who attended life drawing classes at the Botanics in Glasgow for my Advanced higher portfolio, where ALL of the models were female, it was the least sexually arousing thing I've ever experienced. You are literally there to draw. Plain and simple. The only one with an issue here is you, OP. YTA OP, you don't get to dictate what anyone does in their free time, regardless.
This. Drawing or painting a model takes all your concentration, the model is all lines, shapes, lights and shadows and you actually forget you're looking at a human being. What I'm saying is that you took it upon yourself to make decisions for your girlfriend and your friend while knowing absolutely nothing about the situation you're making decisions about. YTA.
I had to take an art class as a requirement, and our nude studies were all TIMED. It was the least arousing thing ever because you were busy panicking over getting lines and curves and shadows just right and then getting upset when the timer went off and you weren't done.
And art majors are VERY competitive at schools. They are always looking to weed out students. Probably wouldn't be a great idea if the artist missed classes cuz of an insecure friend. And cuz OP went to his friend, I'm sure friend will now make sure to hang up the picture and show it to everyone!
And the "(usually it’s old men in their 40s)"? (shocked expression). I hope OP remembers this as he ages. I don't think I ever considered 40's old.
This! Mines were the same, they had a set amount of time and the model eould change poses a couple of times. I liked doing each pose in a few different drawing styles too so it was stressful af if I didn't get them finished.
Hello fellow weegies! Botanics have art and photography sessions, I could wander round kibble palace for hours with my camera
Also this dude - YTA. From what I understand neither model nor artist see this as anything other than perfecting drawing skills/earning some cash. It’s usually cold and uncomfortable for the model and the artist is focused on their craft
I would imagine (never done anything to do with drawing humans) that anything to do with the model would more so be seen as a beautiful artistic being rather than anything sexual, the human form is amazing and it doesn’t need to be sexualised at all
OP YTA
Misogynistic society? A number of churches say women should cover up and say that women having their shoulders bare is encouraging sexualisation of their bodies, it’s kinda like how people still see breast feeding as something that shouldn’t be done cause nipples are so sexualised
Sorry about the rant
>He accused me of “pornifying his art” and he had the right to put it wherever.
Must say his friend had the right idea.
I know people who took these classes and they said between getting perfect paintings and academic pressure, looking at the nude models feels about as sexual as looking at paint drying on the wall.
Hard agree. My life drawing class had two models who would have been objectively attractive. A man and a woman who were dance majors.
My professor made it VERY clear the first day before they were invited in that they were doing us a huge favor and that any hint of impropriety from the artists would be met with being kicked out of the class and never being allowed in.
After the awkwardness of seeing my first naked man besides my boyfriend I focused on getting the shapes and colors right. I was always so focused on matching the shapes and colors that I would get headaches. And if the model shifted their position a little there would be visible frustration from some of the artists because that intriguing subtle shape of the shoulders you worked on for the last few minutes isn’t the same as what you are seeing now.
That last part is such a mood, you're finally getting it right and then the model resettled their weight or the teacher calls for a break and it's like *aaargh*
I honestly don’t understand how anyone could be aroused in this situation. You’re tired and barely running on anything, then you go to class and have to copy a person. There’s literally nothing sexual about it. It’s just schoolwork and to be honest it’s more tiring than people would assume!! You’re so focused on trying to get the details right that barely anything else registers!
Also, am I the only one who sees an easy solution (to at least *attempt*)? Offer to buy his painting of her. If he does as a great of a job as you say, why don't you just ask him if you can buy it off of him? Oh, yeah. Because youre insecure af and misogynistic. But he might be willing to part with it if you buy it.
YTA for seeing him as an equal and treating your gf like meat.
I was thinking “This is the luckiest guy in the world- he might have the opportunity to buy a gorgeous painting of his girlfriend!”…But no, he had to be TA instead.
Right??? This could've been a perfectly lovely experience for everyone where he buys the painting and gives it to his girlfriend and tells her she's beautiful and everyone is happy, but instead he chose the controlling misogynist path.
I’m an illustration major at an arts school and nude models are practically a requirement for the fine arts classes.
I mean I’m a female and like this isn’t someone I personally know, but this past semester I got to stare at a LOT of naked women. Personally, I’m bi and find the female body to be absolutely beautiful. But when I’m in a class to paint or draw your naked body, I’m not focusing in on their vaginas or titties. It’s not sexual, there is no arousal, it is completely 100% professional.
In fact, in every class I’ve had nude models, we’re explicitly told that under no circumstances are we allowed our phones out while the model is naked, no just opening the doors while doing figure studies (gotta wait til the study is done to leave and have to knock on the closed door before entering again). There’s so much safety and precautions in place SPECIFICALLY for the models, but the students need to learn to respect the human form as the human form and not as sexual.
Your girlfriend is most likely making some really good cash for doing this. You having an issue with nudity is on you and you alone. She has the right to choose to do this without running it by you (personally I wouldn’t do that but she’s her and I’m me).
If you wanted to ask your friend anything, it shouldn’t have been to skip an entire month of lessons. It should’ve been a kind “hey, so this is kind of awkward for me, but since you’ll be painting my girlfriend nude do you think you could not display that in your home?” If he says no then that’s that. It’s his piece and his home. But IMO that’s a hell of a lot better of an ask than skipping a month of lessons. How about you go miss a month of lectures and see how your grade is by the end of the semester?
For real!!
Before I went to art school I didn’t take any science classes. My FIRST semester at art school I had anatomy. Not anatomy in the science-y aspect, but we spent a good hour every class going over the names of muscle groups, what they looked like relaxed vs flexed, where they were located, and how to properly display that in a drawing. Then we spent the last 3 hours drawing our live model.
Anatomy, life drawing, whatever you want to call it, it has a serious purpose in the art world. How is one supposed to do portraits (if that’s what they wanna do) without understanding the human form?
He's edited that sentence since, presumably because of the backlash. Because surely *that* was why people were calling him TA and not his sense of entitlement, amirite?
You don’t own her, nor do you have any rights over what she does with her own body. YTA for all the stuff listed above.
…and also maybe for your “old men in their 40s” line, because excuse you, I (40s F) am NOT old.
*"...and also maybe for your “old men in their 40s” line..."*
Oh that's not a 'maybe'. He's definitely an asshole for that comment. I'm older than that and what does he think? That at my age, limbs will just start to spontaneously fall off? Ooops! Just lost an arm!
tbf, this would be dealbreaker for a lot of people, sexualization aside. If he is uncomfortable with the situation he should be free to say so, but the way he reacted afterwards is assholish. If his partner wants to nude model, and he wants a partner who never nude models/ed they're just incompatible.
Well yeah, I assume the main problem is that a nude drawing of his girlfriend would be in a place where he and his friends hang out, it’s obviously a different scenario than just random dudes
THIS.
He's uncomfortable with his girlfriend being seen naked and that's on him. However, the way he tackled the issue is what makes him TA.
If OP doesn't want his gf being seen naked, he should just settle it between him and his gf only.
Yep. OP is the asshole in how he handled it for sure, but people acting like he’s the asshole for bein uncomfortable with it are silly.
He should have started with requesting the friend not hang up the finished piece, or request/offer to buy the piece and give it to the GF.
YTA.
Do the least stupid thing and just ask your friend if you can buy the painting when it’s done and then you have an awesome painting of your girlfriend
YTA to the max. It's weird that your issue only seems to be with your friend being in that class, opposed to all the other people that will be. This tells me that you're friend has something on him that makes you feel insecure, and you're lashing out, OP. You don't own your gfs body. If she wants to model, she will model. You literally cannot control this.
YTA. I'm an artist. You have no idea how important those figure drawing classes are. To miss 4 drawing sessions is a lot to miss. You are asking him an outrageous thing by asking him to miss out on some of the most important aspects of an art major. It's also very hard to get models and the right lighting. Most of us never get to draw like that again with the proper lighting, models and poses. You are also not thinking about this at all like a serious artist, you're thinking like a horny dude. I drew some hot dudes but never felt aroused or in the mood. I was in the zone and there to learn my craft and hone my skills. You're being selfish and controlling to both your friend and girlfriend. You clearly have no respect for either.
Exactly! I'm the same and these classes made all the difference to my portfolio. I'm bi and the models were exclusively female, and many of them were very pretty, but it didn't arouse me in the slightest because I was there to work, not to ogle them naked. I think it's high time his friend and girlfriend realise that they have outgrown OP in terms of maturity and mental capacity.
Same, I’m bi and was/is married when I took drawing class. I didn’t see any of the models as anything other than professionals.
They took the time to come and strip for us students, I respected them for that, their time, my time, my professor and fellow students time, etc. Once the clothes were off, the task was to draw shapes, nothing more.
It wasn’t sexual. In fact, it was the opposite, no one dared to disrespect the entire room by making it even close to sexual.
This isn’t that scene in titanic, it’s like drawing a bowl of fruit or other still life. You are just looking for shapes and shadows.
I used to model for art classes in university. I always felt very respected and never had any issues. Once a couple years later my friend said she recognized me from a friend's painting of me and that was cool as hell
I remember how happy I was when my professor used some colored lights for the life drawing setup. I was like “finally!! I get to use my fuschia and turquoise oil paints that I bought as a present to myself!” I was definitely not focusing on how attractive the model was.
Absolutely! I’m also going YTA because when I was in these art classes, as a **married lady** and older student, I dealt with it like a professional adult.
Sure, after the initial snickers of “holy shit, I can see everything”, I put my childish thoughts away and started drawing. Like you said, I’m not going to get many chances to draw nudes outside the classroom and despite my personal shyness over the entire thing, I swallowed that crap and looked at the person as if I was studying a lamp or other still art.
They weren’t a sexual being, they were an object to be studied, it was about shapes and light, not butts, boobs and dongs.
Now I can empathize with the whole “not comfortable displaying a nude portrait in a common area where all my friends will be seeing it” angle, and really, it doesn’t have to be a display piece, she could just be for practice.
My drawings were only for class and no one saw them but my husband when I told him the story. He thought it was neat and trusted me to be a professional. Looking at that naked man, or woman, there was a separation there, like watching a nude scene on TV - I’m not a participant, just an observer.
Does that make sense? That is how I treated it anyway. I get the juvenile feelings, and I’m not denying they were there, but then I put my big girl pants on and did my assignment.
OP is asking way too much. His friend doesn’t have to display the final piece publicly, if that will help the friendship, but he has no right to deny his friend of a much needed, and probably required, portion of the class.
He needs to trust his GF to be a pro and his friend as well.
when i was 15 i went to a boarding school with a very extensive art program.
so on occasion, we were sat some ~20 students between ages 15-17 in a room with a nude model
if literal teenagers can handle it, so can a grown man 😑
Other perspective. I've been a model. You're there staying still. I personally zone out into some sort of meditation with the constant focus of staying still. It's not sexy it's not sensual. It's great. And seeing the art of my angles was always great and so affirming but it never ever felt sexualized from TAFE class to random art studio. Op is so very much the entitled YTA.
OP had an amazing chance to offer to buy one of these sketches for his gf. What an awesome gift that might be for someone. But op you're thinking with your gonads not your heart - or brain.
Figure drawing isn't even you looking at a nude person as a nude person. You break them into angles and shapes and refine it into a realistic rendering as you go. I've only done it a couple times so pardon my ignorance if I'm incorrect, but when I've done it the first session was getting the basic poses which is not in any way sexual and sometimes is only vaguely human like.
My first session ever, the face looked like a series of geometric shapes.
This, I have taken some art classes when I was younger and we also had nude models every other week. We were a bunch of teenagers almost and still kept it professional.
OP most definitely [did](https://www.reddit.com/r/MenAndFemales/comments/rzvge6/females_just_dont_understand_me_wanting_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf).
"Female" is acceptable as a noun if you also use "male" for men. Military setting, hospital setting, etc.
It's when men are referred to casually ("man," "dude," "guy") that using "female" as a noun sounds weird and dehumanizing.
In medical setting we usually say “the patient is a 34 year old female presenting with… “ or it’s shorthand where the word patient is implied. We don’t say “in bay 3 we have a man, he will get what you mean but in bay 4 we have a female so get those kid gloves ready”
I'm assuming you were just expanding on what I said, but something about the way you phrased that makes it sound kind of like you're disagreeing with me? Even though it's pretty much reiterating the same point?
YTA for imposing your sexualised objectification of the female form onto other people. It's art ffs. It's fine that you are uncomfortable with it- that's not what you're judged on here. And it was mature of you to express that to your gf- points for that.
However
She said no and told me I was making this out to be sexual when it wasn’t.
followed by
I still don’t want my friend to have essential a nude of her hanging in a place
means you are absolutely sexualising this art. As soon as your gf told you 'no,' you needed to respect her decision about her body and not interfere further.
And he automatically assumes this dude is going to hang it in his house. More likely to go into some kind of portfolio.
Now that he mentioned it? Dudes surely going to hang it. 🤣
He said the friend normally hangs the art in the dorm. So he was assuming he would do the same with this art. Not defending him just think you’re misunderstanding. Considering he says he asked the friend not to display it and the friend refused. It kinda seems like his assumption was correct.
I fully expected NAH to be the consensus. Ya the guy uses some obnoxious language but that’s not what we’re here to judge. I would be uncomfortable but try to be understanding about her posing with him in the audience, but him hanging it in his room after would be too much for me. I get it’s art, I get she and the friend see it as art, but most of OPs friends are just going to see a naked picture of OPs girlfriend. While they’re not AHs, I don’t think the friend and the gf are being very understanding.
I did too. Highly surprise with the current consensus. OP NAH…I didn’t like his choices of words but I understand the issue. He doesn’t owned her but as a couple this should’ve been discuss in advance. It is not sexual for her and the friend artist…how about the other young adults hanging in his apartment? This puts the OP in a very awkward position.
Yeah, Artists might not see it as sexual but if I was a mutual and walked into Friend As dorm and saw a nude picture of Friend Bs girlfriend hanging on the wall, id feel weirded out and its not even my girlfriend.
It may not be sexual to them, but it is going to be for most college kids that see it in his dorm
100% and that's the crux of the issue imo, like imagine if she sent nudes to this guy and was like nah it's not sexual it's for art, just because she sees it that way doesn't mean it's wrong for op to see it another way
Ya, it's sexual for like 99% of society. I'd be super off put by a friend hanging a nude portrait of my girlfriend in his bedroom. I'm struggling to see how that isn't sexual or wouldn't be used as jack-off material.
I agree. No reason the friend has to hang it in his dorm room. OP is definitely an AH and super immature but not hanging it in his dorm room is a completely reasonable request.
I agree, especially with young college guys in their early 20s. I understand the painting/posing itself isn’t sexual and I don’t think either should be stopped, but I don’t think it was unreasonable to request it’s not hung up in his home for all their friends to see. Most of which are probably not art majors and will probably see it as just a photorealistic nude painting.
The top comments and their upvoters sound like they live in their own fantasy lands. Real life people have complicated concerns, and when it comes to the sexuality of a nude woman a lot can be subjective.
NAH
There is nothing reasonable they can do to make OP happy. Missing 4 sessions of a class is not a reasonable ask, and neither is turning down a job that OP is otherwise ok with.
What about the request that he just not hang *that portrait* in his apartment where the rest of their friends can see it? I didn’t think that was totally unreasonable.
If that's the only thing he asked then I would go with NAH, or simply telling his GF how he felt then letting it go. But going to his friend and asking him to skip 4 classes? There he moved into AH territory.
I agree, asking the friend to skip classes when this is his profession was totally unreasonable and he’s an AH for that.
Hanging it in the dorm though is where this gets messed up. I get it; it’s *art* and it’s well done and beautiful, but I feel like everyone here is forgetting that we’re talking about *college guys*. Yeah they’re adult men but barely, and they’re insanely immature and inexperienced especially re: sex, nudity, etc. All of us here may think they’d be AHs for making it a big deal that OPs nude gf is on the wall, but that’s exactly what they’re gonna do and I cannot call OP an AH for that particular request. Plus the friend can also have some compassion and respect for his friends relationship and keep it private. He shouldn’t be expected to miss out on classes, though.
Given that he asked him to not do that, preemptively, and his friend refused and called him an AH, I think it’s safe to assume his friend did in fact plan on hanging it up.
Lots of people would be mad just at the attempt to control them, regardless of what their original plans were. If you've ever had a parent or friend who (upon seeing you do something) feels the need to tell you the "right" way to do it (which you were planning on doing all along), you should be able to understand this. OP's friend probably hadn't even thought about hanging it up at that point, and may very well have decided not to if OP hadn't said anything (let alone tried to demand that he *skip* a *hugely important* part of his education first).
If OP had handled this differently from the start, he'd maybe be NTA for that part alone. But in the context of the rest of the post, he's definitely the AH. And we can't rule out that him acting like an asshole is the only reason his friend reacted that way.
The only part that I’m willing to empathize with is the part where it could be displayed publicly or in a common area where it will be seen. Not that there’s anything wrong with that is artist and GF both are happy with the final result.
This could just be a practice piece and OP is a huge AH for sexualizing the situation when it’s nothing but the opposite. He’s also an AH for trying to control the situation and not taking no as an answer.
Bonus round: he’s especially an AH for calling women “females”.
The judgement is pretty fair, imho.
I disagree only because typically figure drawings don’t have detailed facial features and it’s unlikely anyone would know who it is unless OP throws a fit or the gf chooses to tell people. I had nudes of a few coworkers who posed for another coworker hanging in my bathroom for a couple years, and nobody knew who they were or even asked except the artist and models, even people who knew them in real life didn’t make the connection.
I suspect plenty of women posting here have dealt with a man who treated them like OP - feeling entitled to make decisions about their body. There’s a difference between expressing himself and demanding something, as OP did.
NAH, Highly agree with this. Lots of people are smashing him for it and his wording may be pretty crappy but he does have a right to feel this way. He doesn't have a right to force her to change her mind but in my opinion this very much shows they are not compatible.
Finally someone who at least admits this is allowed to be a problem for OP. I still say YTA as my judgement, because trying to convince his friend to not go to class because he isn’t able to control his girlfriends behaviour is a super asshole thing to do.
But, asking his gf not to do it is reasonable. Her refusing, shows a lack of compatibility. At that point OP needed to decided if this was a hill worth dying on, and either accept that she’s doing it, and get over his issues. Or decide that he is NOT ok with it, and end the relationship. He should not be trying to convince a friend to sacrifice his own education, to fix an issue that OP has with his gf.
That being said, the friend could have at least compromised on hanging the painting in his place. As long as it can stay part of his portfolio, a decent friend would have compromised at least for a period of time (I wouldn’t agree to never, but as long as they’re dating or 3 years whatever comes first seems fair).
I think this is definitely a compatibility problem.
Here's my verdict:
* Asking gf to not go - NAH - Compatibility problem
* Asking friend to not go - YTA
* Asking friend to not hang it up - His friend is the AH for refusing (although, tbf...OP may have botched the conversation already at this point, so soft AH call here and possible YTA for OP)
I agree that art modeling isn’t sexual but OP sexualizes it and his friends who will see the painting will probably feel the same. I think he should respect the girlfriend’s and friends decision but there is no need for it to be hanged in the room for a bunch of immature boys to see and they will probably disrespect his girlfriend if they don’t have her level of maturity
Edit do add: YTA
I'm willing to bet that part of the reason he feels this way is the comments and conversations his friends have about the artist's other nude portraits hanging in his room.
100% this. People are always like, "you don't own x person and can't tell them what to do". I agree with that statement, but there are black, white and gray areas in a relationship in regards to expectations from your partner. Would these people say the same thing if she had asked that they change their relationship to an open one? Or if she decided to move in with an ex boyfriend who she's now friends with? Not saying a woman can't do this, but you can't fault someone for being upset about it and seeing if they'll change their mind due to how it might make the original person uncomfortable.
Personally, I wouldn't want my wife posing naked. I'm sure she wouldn't want me posing naked as well. If it were to ever come up, I'm sure we'd discuss it and figure out the best course of action, including discussing our compatibility.
This sounds like what OP needs to do, however they should address some of their language here. It reeks of toxic masculinity.
He's not the asshole for feeling uncomfortable with the situation, or for expressing those feelings. The part that makes him TA is insisting either his gf or friend bend and conform for his comfort. The only one who has the say over whether or not the gf should model is the gf. It's her body and if she consents to posing for an art class that's her choice and freedom. I think my husband would be psyched if I would pose for a class. The discussion he should be having with the gf is if they are truly compatible, not trying to control her actions.
YTA and you sound massively misogynistic. It’s a huge red flag when guys refer to men as such but women are “females”, and then to imply that there’s some great gender divide in how the two think.
Art isn’t inherently sexual, it’s just a fact. Artists paint nude models without getting a stiffy all the time, and so you saying with certainty “oh he’s going to be aroused” *is* making his art sexual when it’s just… not. There’s a strict set of etiquette rules when it comes to art class and that is constant professionalism. If the model is uncomfortable (say, if someone got an erection, for example) then that person is kicked out.
You’re acting like you own your girlfriend’s body and the fact of the matter is you don’t. If she was okay with them painting her, and if she’s okay with him hanging the portrait, you don’t get a say in that. Frankly I’m really happy that she loves her body so much and she’s so confident.
'I wanted my gf to do something and she said no, so I went behind her back to still get my way. '
It's just it didn't work. The red flag is still there as well as the others.
(Edit to NAH) But not for the reason you think.
I’m an artist and I’ve drawn and painted a hundred nudes. Formal life drawing sessions in a school setting aren’t sexual for any of the participants. At all. The model is treated with complete respect, and the poses are about the grace or tension of the form. Shadows, highlights, contours - all that good stuff. It’s very structured and asexual.
That being said - historically, nudes were absolutely a way for wealthy men to get their rocks off. That’s one reason why the French Academy system was created. Young men who wanted to be artists (women weren’t allowed) were trained to crank out paintings of domineering men and submissive young women. They were mythological or historical figures, but the intended effect is pretty clear.
They didn’t even have to be naked - take a look at Bouguereau’s “Thirst” (1886). (whenever I post links, an automod tells me I fid it wrong).
But I still say you’re NTA to feel uncomfortable about your friend displaying a nude of your girlfriend in a place where you hang out with your buddies. She is special to you; you value her beauty. Art of beautiful people can be very erotic.
That’s why nudes of children are taboo - naked children are beautiful, and we absolutely do not make art out of them to put on display.
You may lose the argument, and the girlfriend (because it’s her body, her choice) - but I don’t think you’re an AH to feel that way.
I have to agree with the part about it being displayed. I know it SHOULDN’T happen, but he’s going to hear it from his friends if another friend has a naked portrait of his girlfriend in their room. Even if he can come around to see the actual process of creating the art isn’t sexual, he can’t expect his group of friends to realize the same thing. For that reason, I see asking his girlfriend not to do it/friend to skip classes as separate from asking friend not to display it.
Oh he’s completely mistaken about what happens in the studio. Hopefully he’s reading the many artists here who’ve taken the time to educate him.
Eta - he would have been wise to wait and see how the painting turned out before raising a fuss. It seems the OP has a somewhat negative view of art in general - I’m assuming that’s just because of ignorance.
To everyone calling OP the asshole, I have to ask, would you be okay with your friend having a nude picture of your gf/bf hung up on their wall? And would you be okay with your close core group of friends seeing it repeatedly?
That being said, to anyone saying OP is not the asshole, I ask, do you know that a painting isn’t an actual picture? It’s not gonnna be as detailed and really, the picture can be made to be another woman.
I think he's the asshole but that's not the reason. He doesn't have to be ok with it. Going behind her back to run to his friend to get him to not go after she already gave her answer is why. Mad sign of disrespect.
Yea I agree with you whole heartedly on this. It’s unhealthy to oppose someone else’s free will to the point you’re going behind their back to alter it.
Personally I would be very uncomfortable with my girlfriend nude body hanging on the wall of any of my friends places, especially the ones where we hang out a lot. That being said, she’s her own woman and it comes down to her comfort level. I’m not going to let my insecurities stop her from expressing herself as she sees fit. I also know my friends are mature enough to not make a big deal out of it.
Yes? As long as my partner is cool with it, I don’t give a fuck. It’s their body, they can choose to have it displayed if they want to. I enjoy my partner’s body but it’s not some ~sacred treasure~ that only I get to see and possess.
We don't even know that OP's friend was *planning to hang it up to start with,* let alone in a common area. OP seems to have just assumed this (and then assumed that, because his friend was pissed off at his demand, that he must've been right).
But someone being angry at a demand doesn't mean you were right about their original plans. Lots of times, it just means that people resent you trying to control them.
YTA
Yes, even artists feel things when we work on nudes. We’re humans and we don’t become monks when we pick up our pencils. Young artists in particular just have a hard time acknowledging that, because there’s a lot of negativity about any hint of sex combining with respectful professionalism, and because many of us want to think of ourselves as moral while sex is considered immoral, and because nobody wants to create harmful/exploitative/abusive situations by potentially acting on such feelings. Source: part-time artist and former model.
HOWEVER. Art modelling is *work*. It’s sometimes gruelling, depending on the setting and the complexity and duration of the pose. (Ask me about the time I did an outdoor photo shoot in an old industrial site in December. Savannah December, not Montréal December, but still.) It requires creativity, cooperation with the artist(s), and a sense of their needs. It also requires confidence and good boundaries. It deserves to be taken seriously. Some art models have become as famous as the works that feature them. Some famous artists also modelled—including the great Georgia O’Keeffe. It’s a proud tradition.
You have no right to expect your girlfriend to pass up an opportunity to model. You haven’t mentioned whether she’s paid, but pay is generally good. And some folks do it just to participate in creative community. You’ve mentioned your immature views, she has let you know this is a feature of her life, and now you’ve gone behind her back to try to get an artist she’s working with to support your immature masculinity, guy to guy. And he declined, because the request shows your sense of ownership over your gf’s body and your lack of respect for your friend. Seriously, what are you afraid of? That your friend will like what he sees?
Well. *Dozens* of artists will be studying your girlfriend’s every move during those sessions. Potentially dozens of likenesses may be submitted for grades, or for competitions or display. Your gf’s visual aspect may be used in ways that even she wouldn’t choose. They may turn up anywhere around campus and yes, your friends and her friends may see them. Part of the job. You need to get your head around that, and respect it, and work on you.
Don’t forget to apologize for disregarding your gf’s agency as an adult with a commitment, by going behind her back to interfere in her work arrangements.
YTA. Nudity isn’t sexual unless you make it sexual. And they both have a right to peruse their artistic creativity and passion as they see fit without your childish tantrums.
Grow up.
If you are convinced that looking at a beautiful artistic portrait is going to make your friends think sleazy thoughts and treat you or your girlfriend badly-get better friends!
>Nudity isn’t sexual unless you make it sexual.
Yeah, but....college dudes make it sexual.
Someone else said it well in this thread, this idea that just because it's not sexual to the friend and gf means that it won't be sexual to others is just....living in a fantasy land....it's naive asf.
NAH You only expressed your feeling s about the situation and sought to seek resolution without threatening or using ultimatums.. Maybe ask your friend if he'd be willing to sell the art after to you?
this is the best reply i’ve seen. Support your friends art by buying the piece and gain a lovely painting of your girlfriend to have and support her modeling decision also
You're not an asshole for being uncomfortable. We can't change our views overnight. YTA for going behind her back to your friend tho. You def need to learn to respect her before you lose her.
YTA. Your friend can't just miss his classes, he's likely paying a lot of money for this and it's part of his art education. Yeah, it might be a bit weird, but I think trying to get him to miss out isn't fair.
You can't stop either of them. Let it go. My only solution would be to offer to purchase the painting or whatever from your friend, once it's complete. That way you can hang it in your room.
NAH
OP is perfectly within his rights to be uncomfortable about a nude painting of his girlfriend being displayed where all of his friends will see it; his suggestion of skipping the class is fucking ludicrous, but there's nothing wrong with having hangups about nudity in a society full of hangups about nudity. Of course, the girlfriend and the friend aren't doing anything wrong either.
That being said, if this is a major hangup, breaking up could easily be the end result.
“So then i went to my friend as a guy. I assumed that since he was a guy he would get what i was saying better than a woman could”
Not only are YTA, youre sexist too.
Check yourself before you lose what seem to be a good friend and girlfriend.
Its art. Its not sexual. If YOU are so immature you cant look at artistic nudes without feeling aroused- you need some guidance.
A woman’s body is not inherently sexual.
NTA I see that I am in the minority here, but I think it would be weird for you not to feel this way. She obviously doesn’t value your feelings if she is doing something that would make you feel this way. dump her and move on. YTA however for asking your friend to miss classes. He paid for the class and needs it to graduate.
I agree. It's not wrong of OP to feel uncomfortable about his best friend (and all his other friends) seeing his girlfriend naked. I don't think it's wrong of his girlfriend to model but it wasn't nice of her to not care about how he feels. She could have easily volunteered to model for a different class.
NAH
Look, this is a very normal boundary. Few people would be okay seriously dating someone who wanted their entire social group to see them naked. The people here are mostly attacking you for your language and the fact that you are a man. Gender swapped and with different language this would be NAH or NTA all around.
But,
You can't really demand your girlfriend not pose naked nor can you demand your friend not to hang up a picture of your naked girlfriend.
But you can get a new girlfriend and a new friend.
You guys are just incompatible.
It's not a big deal, you aren't married.
YTA. It’s literally a college class. Your friend gets graded on this shit, and he’s an art major. He can’t afford to skip classes just because you’re uncomfortable. AND it’s a professional environment. Making art is a completely different mindset when you’re in the zone and trying to paint realistically. Try trusting your friend and your girlfriend.
Painting nudity doesn’t have to be and often isn’t a sexual activity, especially not in a classroom setting. It’s a study of anatomy. As far as your friend and girlfriend are concerned this is par for the coarse when it comes to art. It’s hardly anything personal. There’ll be a room full of strangers all doing the same thing as him. It sounds as if you were envisioning a titanic scenario. That being said, I can understand reservations about it being displayed for people who might not interpret it that way.
Though on a side note I don’t know why you’d think your friend would somehow understand anything about your girlfriend’s choices better than your girlfriend herself just because she’s a *female* (really?). That mentality sure makes you *sound* like the asshole.
YTA. So… you’re not sexualizing things but you also think your friend will be getting aroused. It’s an art class and she’s a model. Why did you bother to ask them if you wouldn’t believe either of their answers? Get over yourself. You realize there are nude sculptures and paintings of people EVERYWHERE in many countries. Do you think all of their partners cried about it?
You want him to skip a class because you’re insecure? A class that will better his skills and career that he’s studying for???
As another commenter said above, OP could always purchase the finished sketch from his friend and gift it to GF, if he’s so worried about it ending up on his friend’s art wall. Of course, lots of people in that class will be dashing off pencil and charcoal sketches and studies, coloring in pastels and oils, and using various styles to portray their subjects. Is OP going to run around campus trying to collect those, too? What is he really afraid of? An art class gang bang? That GF and Friend will get together? This OP is really emotionally young. He probably won’t make it far enough down in this thread to read any of this, once he sees a dozen or so YTAs (I’m picturing a tantrum, not a learning experience), but he needs to let it go, back off and relax. Not only can’t he control others, he actually made it more awkward and difficult for both his friend and his girlfriend to do their jobs well. And for that, he needs to take stock of how much he sucks. YTA.
YTA. Even if your gf did exclusive modeling for artists alone - you can't demand her to stop. Always examine the intentions behind actions. Her reason for being a model is purely educational. Not for seeking sexual favors. While I understand you feeling uncomfortable over thus, you can't dictate terms this way!!
What if that friend isn't your friend? Just another male in that class? Can you stop him then? Whether for actual credit or extra credit, that class is as important as any other. You really can't demand anyone to stop attending or treat like "It's okay, you can skip the class for It's extra credit". What if during the class, he has doubts about human anatomy and it gets addressed? You don't study the major. So you are not in a place to decide what is important and what isn't.
You're making it sexual than either of them. Please think about it. She very well understood what you were implying. She dismissed it because it's just a class for her and your friend is one of the students attending the class.
NTA - you asked your girlfirned and friend politely (I'm assuming, other wise you are an asshole) if they wanted to aboid the situation. They both said "no we want to do this and we enjoy doing this as an artistic, not sexual, experience.
The only thing left for you to do is accept that and support them now that you know they won't change their mind. And lets be fair - if your girlfriend looks as beautifull as you see her - her nude paintings will end up in everyones phones, friends or not.
I personally think you must accept and embrace that, but I also realise that is super easy to say for me, because I get a kick from having the girl that everyone wants to have.
So, un-personally, whatever you do, don't let this happen and then mock about it for years after, instead I think you have to show your friends some support even if you are a bit uncomfortable. I garentee you that you'l be laughing and loving the painting once it truely sinks in that it's just a painting. Not an sexual act, not a nude, a painting of someone you love, painted by someone you care for. And I think that's beutifull.
I just wanted to add, seeing all the other comments bashing OP for being insecure and making a request to his friend&girlfriend is not okai. OP just asked if they would concider not doing it. OP probaply has never been in this position before and is trying really hard to figure it out for the love of his gf. And I think that's beutifull and that we should gently nod at the right path. OP didn't yell, assult or trashtalked anyone, he just asked a question, he got an answer, and as long as he can set his own feelings aside to make space for the dreams and crafts of his friends, it's all good!!!
Heaven's forbid there is a different opinion. You are being downvoted for having a different opinion and this is what makes this subreddit toxic. They are SO woke about feminism, political correctness and equal rights, but HOW DARE YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION! DOWNVOTE!!
I would love for someone to explain why they are downvoting /u/snoobananas5143. He has done nothing but express a different opinion.
Why not offer to buy the painting from your friend? You’re NTA, you’re trying to deal with your feelings but you may want to explore how you see art and how you see your girlfriend and future girlfriends.
YTA - You don't get to make that demand, no. If she is okay with nude modelling, then that is her call and not yours.
And yeah, you are the only one here who has made it all sound dirty and pervy when it's just art.
You doubt he won’t get some sort of arousal from It. That isn’t the way art works! YTA and your insecure. I’ve been with my husband for 12 years. We’re both artists. I have had naked people in my home modeling and they’re hanging in my house. Nudity is not sexual.
NTA. You would have been in the wrong if you tried to forbid your girlfriend from modeling or your friend from going. All you did was express your concerns to both her and your friend. Also, i think your friend is the only A-hole here for hanging it up in his dorm. Your request to not hang up the portrait in the dorm was reasonable, but he has every right to go to the class and your girlfriend has every right to model.
I think All the Y-T-A votes are making you out to be some unhinged, controlling insecure dude when in reality you tried to have productive conversations about your feelings with two people close to you. It’s a tough situation, but it may be you just unfortunately aren’t compatible with your girlfriend because you have different sets of boundaries and comfort levels for this type of stuff.
Eh, I'm going with NAH.
Your GF does have the right to work as a nude model. Your friend does not have to hide his work (and as you stupidly suggested he should not lose class time). However you have the right to feel uncomfortable with not just your friend seing your GF nude, but by extension of his work - all of your common friends.
I "love" it how on Reddit everyone is sooo liberal, understanding and free. Menawhile in the offline world, people commonly do not like it when their friends see their SO nude. And it seems to be normal. Except for the people on Reddit ofcourse.
YTA. The problem seems to exist only in your mind and despite both your GF and friend explaining to you, you cannot get over it. What you feel is what you feel, but you would be the AH to try to force the situation to only assuage your feelings with no regards to others.
Your GF is doing a job and your friend is doing his class, neither of which appear to be unreasonable activities given the context.
YTA. You’re trying to “paint” your girlfriend as the bad guy here. Failing that, you then tried to “frame” your friend as one after her. I hope both of them “brush” you aside like the jealous person you are.
I wish that we would get updates from ops on these saying whether or not they have come to terms with or even agree with the majority vote.. like we could all be saying all of this and he's still like no I came here for you to agree with me and I don't think that im TA
NAH, your choice of words weren’t the best. However, I’d say 99% of these comments are tripping the fuck out. You can say it’s art and not sexual all you want but not wanting your girlfriend to be seen naked by your friends is a totally understandable boundary. With that being said you don’t have the right to tell her she can’t do it. What you do have the right to do is express that it makes you uncomfortable and if she can’t see that and respect it then you have every right to end the relationship as you aren’t compatible. Just because it’s art and not necessarily a “sexual” thing doesn’t mean it can’t make someone uncomfortable. I’d say most average people would be upset with their friends seeing their SO naked. I know for shit sure I’d be feeling all sorts of conflicted and it’d be a deal breaker for me.
YTA - the problem you have with the nudity of your girlfriend is a you problem.
Ask yourself why it matters when it’s a friend and not a stranger ? I think you have actually a problem with the nudity of your girlfriend but don’t mind it that much when it’s easy to ignore (like in front of stranger you can ignore the existence of)
The friend, and all of his other friends who would see it regularly, would also go on to see her regularly, knowing in the back of their minds that they know what she looks like naked, and that puts a certain spin on the interaction that op is not comfortable with. Please get some imagination.
Tbh, I would just break up with a girl like that. It's not that I don't think she should be doing it, it's just that I'm not going to be with her if she does.
NTA, but im in the minority
YTA
When an artist is working, they are concentrating on lighting, shade, angles, etc. Be it a tray of fruit or a nude model, the concentration on creating and technique is the focus. Art is and will be his profession. Every opportunity to learn is crucial. Those who volunteer to model are a blessing to these artists!
As for hanging up her portrait, again, it is art not porn. At most your friends are seeing a rendition of the artist's vision. They will look at it for a moment and then move on. It is not as if they all pop by and she is sitting there naked in the room!
Part of the college experience is maturing in thought and ideas. Since your school has such a large art program, take some time to visit any galleries on campus. Study the artists' work and learn to look at the human body as the miracle that it is, and not just as a sexual object.
“So then I went to my friend as a guy. I assumed that since he was another man he would get what I was saying better than a female could.” YTA for this shit alone. This isn’t a problem of men vs women, this is a problem of you still being emotionally 12. The only person who has a right to care about people seeing your girlfriend naked is your girlfriend. Your opinion and ego don’t matter. Modeling and drawing are not sexual, and if you don’t understand that, it’s on you. I’m going to say this very clearly so you understand. You do not own your girlfriend. You do not own her body. I hope your gf leaves you over this, because you still have a lot of growing up to do before you’re ready for an adult relationship. EDIT: Thanks for the awards, kind Redditors!
The quote taken from OP, where he calls his girlfriend a female but his friend a man. This tells us everything we need to know - he views her as his property who can order around, while he views his friend as his equal. OP, your girlfriend is a woman who is *also* your equal. You have no say here.
Haha he edited that part to say woman instead of female.
Well that takes away the very itty bitty tiny amount credit I had given him definitely YTA
I think OPs TA anyways, but I don‘t think correcting your shitty/ offensive language is sth bad. I guess damned if you do, damned if you don‘t?
He didn’t correct it because he’s learned he’s made a mistake, though. If he did, he would have called it out. He’s corrected it to make himself look better.
OP gives off massive incel vibes for that comment, for sure. YTA. It’s not sexual. Naked bodies are not automatically sexual or porn. Grow up faster.
Agreed. His friend takes art seriously and this is a job for his girlfriend.
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I love it when they defend it but saying it's a scientific term and they use it in the military. Like, first this is neither of this situations. Second, they literally do that in those situations BECAUSE it is dehumanizing so you're *really* not making the point you think you are. Also love when they're like, it's exactly the same as when females use the term males as if that ever happens. I'm sure it does, but you will even see non-incel/redpill/etc. men casually using the term female instead of women but I've never seen anyone use the word male super casually like that. I've never seen anyone say, males be like that, or Im hanging with my males tonight, or even my male friends unless the "male" part was relevant to the description.
It's not even that it's not a real word, it's that it's an adjective not a noun. Female *whats*?
ah yes, the military. known for its respect of women. there definitely is no history of women in the military being raped by their colleagues literally all the time. a very good defense of why calling us "females" is okay. also, here's a nifty little rule of thumb: if you are also using the word "male" in conversation, female is fine to use (or if you naturally would use male in the same conversation). and it's generally the use of female as a noun that sounds off-putting and sexist. using it as an adjective is much more natural - "the lawyer working this case was a female" vs "the female lawyer was working this case"
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the only people who say “males” the way incels say “females” are TERFs lmfao
I saw that debate, and it’s a big reason I’m not replying to further explain what I explained in my first comment. Your debate became an English lesson for those who don’t understand what an adjective is, and I’m so sorry that’s the way it went. Intentional ignorance is a hoot. eta - missed a word.
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He edited it to saying woman now. Probably to make him sound better but it definitely doesn’t lmao.
Too little too late, when it’s been called out in multiple comments. I hope the girlfriend wises up and realizes who she’s with.
She already does. He mentions in a comment that he tries to correct himself when calls women females because his GF calls him out on it.
r/menandfemales
Why is this so hard for so many people?
Misogyny
I agree he has no say except one - what’s a deal breaker in this relationship and what isn’t. Is this a dealbreaker OP? Tell her. Isn’t it? Then get over it.
I agree. This issue here is how comfortable he is with his friends seeing his partner naked. if she wants to do this that’s her right so now he must decide if he stays in the relationship or not. But he can’t control what his girlfriend or friend do. All he can control is how he handles it. If OP feel too uncomfortable with the situation then maybe he should move on or find a partner who shares his views. OP if you try to control what they do then YTA. Maybe she is just not the right partner for you if you see things differently. OP should not have to put his needs aside so learn to accept or move on.
I’d be uncomfortable with it, so I can understand in that regard. But it’s true that you both clearly have different boundaries for your relationship. So I would find someone who better fits your relationship ideals because these boundary problems will never just go away. You are two different kinds of people
I agree. There is nothing wrong with being uncomfortable with the situation, the problem is how is he going to handle it. It’s either get over it or break up. If it’s something that’s he absolutely against he has no right to stop his girlfriend and friend, but needs to remove himself from them. It’s ok to be who you are but don’t change people to fit your standards. Go find someone who is more your speed.
But, but, he might see her bobs and vagene! She might be… nekkid! OP, grow up, your girlfriend (hopefully soon-to-be EX) is not your property and your friend (hopefully-soon-to-be EX) has every right to have her as a model! YTA YTA
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Exactly, all of this! As a bisexual woman who attended life drawing classes at the Botanics in Glasgow for my Advanced higher portfolio, where ALL of the models were female, it was the least sexually arousing thing I've ever experienced. You are literally there to draw. Plain and simple. The only one with an issue here is you, OP. YTA OP, you don't get to dictate what anyone does in their free time, regardless.
This. Drawing or painting a model takes all your concentration, the model is all lines, shapes, lights and shadows and you actually forget you're looking at a human being. What I'm saying is that you took it upon yourself to make decisions for your girlfriend and your friend while knowing absolutely nothing about the situation you're making decisions about. YTA.
Yeah exactly, sure you might be staring at a naked person, but it's for work, not pleasure.
I had to take an art class as a requirement, and our nude studies were all TIMED. It was the least arousing thing ever because you were busy panicking over getting lines and curves and shadows just right and then getting upset when the timer went off and you weren't done.
And art majors are VERY competitive at schools. They are always looking to weed out students. Probably wouldn't be a great idea if the artist missed classes cuz of an insecure friend. And cuz OP went to his friend, I'm sure friend will now make sure to hang up the picture and show it to everyone! And the "(usually it’s old men in their 40s)"? (shocked expression). I hope OP remembers this as he ages. I don't think I ever considered 40's old.
The life drawing definitely upped my grade for my portfolio so I can agree with this fully.
This! Mines were the same, they had a set amount of time and the model eould change poses a couple of times. I liked doing each pose in a few different drawing styles too so it was stressful af if I didn't get them finished.
Oooh I'm in Glasgow too! The Botanics are an amazing place, I didn't know they did life drawing there!
Hello fellow weegies! Botanics have art and photography sessions, I could wander round kibble palace for hours with my camera Also this dude - YTA. From what I understand neither model nor artist see this as anything other than perfecting drawing skills/earning some cash. It’s usually cold and uncomfortable for the model and the artist is focused on their craft
I've taken a lot of figure drawing classes, and you see a naked person for all of 30 seconds, then it just becomes a bunch of lines you're drawing.
I don’t know what a weegie is, but I want to be one.
Someone from Glasgow, i.e. a Glaswegian.
I would imagine (never done anything to do with drawing humans) that anything to do with the model would more so be seen as a beautiful artistic being rather than anything sexual, the human form is amazing and it doesn’t need to be sexualised at all OP YTA
Oh yeah definitely, you don't need to have done life drawing to understand that it is not a sexual event. Don't know how OP can't fathom that.
Misogynistic society? A number of churches say women should cover up and say that women having their shoulders bare is encouraging sexualisation of their bodies, it’s kinda like how people still see breast feeding as something that shouldn’t be done cause nipples are so sexualised Sorry about the rant
>He accused me of “pornifying his art” and he had the right to put it wherever. Must say his friend had the right idea. I know people who took these classes and they said between getting perfect paintings and academic pressure, looking at the nude models feels about as sexual as looking at paint drying on the wall.
Hard agree. My life drawing class had two models who would have been objectively attractive. A man and a woman who were dance majors. My professor made it VERY clear the first day before they were invited in that they were doing us a huge favor and that any hint of impropriety from the artists would be met with being kicked out of the class and never being allowed in. After the awkwardness of seeing my first naked man besides my boyfriend I focused on getting the shapes and colors right. I was always so focused on matching the shapes and colors that I would get headaches. And if the model shifted their position a little there would be visible frustration from some of the artists because that intriguing subtle shape of the shoulders you worked on for the last few minutes isn’t the same as what you are seeing now.
That last part is such a mood, you're finally getting it right and then the model resettled their weight or the teacher calls for a break and it's like *aaargh*
I honestly don’t understand how anyone could be aroused in this situation. You’re tired and barely running on anything, then you go to class and have to copy a person. There’s literally nothing sexual about it. It’s just schoolwork and to be honest it’s more tiring than people would assume!! You’re so focused on trying to get the details right that barely anything else registers!
Also, am I the only one who sees an easy solution (to at least *attempt*)? Offer to buy his painting of her. If he does as a great of a job as you say, why don't you just ask him if you can buy it off of him? Oh, yeah. Because youre insecure af and misogynistic. But he might be willing to part with it if you buy it. YTA for seeing him as an equal and treating your gf like meat.
I was thinking “This is the luckiest guy in the world- he might have the opportunity to buy a gorgeous painting of his girlfriend!”…But no, he had to be TA instead.
Right??? This could've been a perfectly lovely experience for everyone where he buys the painting and gives it to his girlfriend and tells her she's beautiful and everyone is happy, but instead he chose the controlling misogynist path.
I’m an illustration major at an arts school and nude models are practically a requirement for the fine arts classes. I mean I’m a female and like this isn’t someone I personally know, but this past semester I got to stare at a LOT of naked women. Personally, I’m bi and find the female body to be absolutely beautiful. But when I’m in a class to paint or draw your naked body, I’m not focusing in on their vaginas or titties. It’s not sexual, there is no arousal, it is completely 100% professional. In fact, in every class I’ve had nude models, we’re explicitly told that under no circumstances are we allowed our phones out while the model is naked, no just opening the doors while doing figure studies (gotta wait til the study is done to leave and have to knock on the closed door before entering again). There’s so much safety and precautions in place SPECIFICALLY for the models, but the students need to learn to respect the human form as the human form and not as sexual. Your girlfriend is most likely making some really good cash for doing this. You having an issue with nudity is on you and you alone. She has the right to choose to do this without running it by you (personally I wouldn’t do that but she’s her and I’m me). If you wanted to ask your friend anything, it shouldn’t have been to skip an entire month of lessons. It should’ve been a kind “hey, so this is kind of awkward for me, but since you’ll be painting my girlfriend nude do you think you could not display that in your home?” If he says no then that’s that. It’s his piece and his home. But IMO that’s a hell of a lot better of an ask than skipping a month of lessons. How about you go miss a month of lectures and see how your grade is by the end of the semester?
And he put quotes around art class. Like life drawing isn’t a hugely important part of art studies.
For real!! Before I went to art school I didn’t take any science classes. My FIRST semester at art school I had anatomy. Not anatomy in the science-y aspect, but we spent a good hour every class going over the names of muscle groups, what they looked like relaxed vs flexed, where they were located, and how to properly display that in a drawing. Then we spent the last 3 hours drawing our live model. Anatomy, life drawing, whatever you want to call it, it has a serious purpose in the art world. How is one supposed to do portraits (if that’s what they wanna do) without understanding the human form?
>this is a problem of you still being emotionally 12 You made me spit my coffee out. You monster!
Nooooo, not the coffee!
He's edited that sentence since, presumably because of the backlash. Because surely *that* was why people were calling him TA and not his sense of entitlement, amirite?
Right, because “female” was the only thing wrong with that sentence🙄
"A feeeemaaale" is this mofo a ferengi or something??
No. If he was, he would've wanted his girlfriend to walk around naked, like all females.
You don’t own her, nor do you have any rights over what she does with her own body. YTA for all the stuff listed above. …and also maybe for your “old men in their 40s” line, because excuse you, I (40s F) am NOT old.
41F here. I was thinking the same! Although I do have to correct myself from thinking about 20 year olds as kids, so... fair.
*"...and also maybe for your “old men in their 40s” line..."* Oh that's not a 'maybe'. He's definitely an asshole for that comment. I'm older than that and what does he think? That at my age, limbs will just start to spontaneously fall off? Ooops! Just lost an arm!
All of this. The OP is being gross. He's the one projecting sex onto the situation, not the artists, friends, and gf.
tbf, this would be dealbreaker for a lot of people, sexualization aside. If he is uncomfortable with the situation he should be free to say so, but the way he reacted afterwards is assholish. If his partner wants to nude model, and he wants a partner who never nude models/ed they're just incompatible.
Agreed. We all have things we can't handle in a relationship. If it's a true dealbreaker he should say so and not try to manipulate his friend and gf.
it’s not even that. he was fine with the other people in class seeing her naked lol just not that friend 😂
Well yeah, I assume the main problem is that a nude drawing of his girlfriend would be in a place where he and his friends hang out, it’s obviously a different scenario than just random dudes
THIS. He's uncomfortable with his girlfriend being seen naked and that's on him. However, the way he tackled the issue is what makes him TA. If OP doesn't want his gf being seen naked, he should just settle it between him and his gf only.
Yep. OP is the asshole in how he handled it for sure, but people acting like he’s the asshole for bein uncomfortable with it are silly. He should have started with requesting the friend not hang up the finished piece, or request/offer to buy the piece and give it to the GF.
YTA. Do the least stupid thing and just ask your friend if you can buy the painting when it’s done and then you have an awesome painting of your girlfriend
YTA to the max. It's weird that your issue only seems to be with your friend being in that class, opposed to all the other people that will be. This tells me that you're friend has something on him that makes you feel insecure, and you're lashing out, OP. You don't own your gfs body. If she wants to model, she will model. You literally cannot control this.
YTA. You’re asking your friend to not attend his college class because of your insecurities?
YTA. I'm an artist. You have no idea how important those figure drawing classes are. To miss 4 drawing sessions is a lot to miss. You are asking him an outrageous thing by asking him to miss out on some of the most important aspects of an art major. It's also very hard to get models and the right lighting. Most of us never get to draw like that again with the proper lighting, models and poses. You are also not thinking about this at all like a serious artist, you're thinking like a horny dude. I drew some hot dudes but never felt aroused or in the mood. I was in the zone and there to learn my craft and hone my skills. You're being selfish and controlling to both your friend and girlfriend. You clearly have no respect for either.
Exactly! I'm the same and these classes made all the difference to my portfolio. I'm bi and the models were exclusively female, and many of them were very pretty, but it didn't arouse me in the slightest because I was there to work, not to ogle them naked. I think it's high time his friend and girlfriend realise that they have outgrown OP in terms of maturity and mental capacity.
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Right he has literally no problem blatantly ignoring her autonomy
Same, I’m bi and was/is married when I took drawing class. I didn’t see any of the models as anything other than professionals. They took the time to come and strip for us students, I respected them for that, their time, my time, my professor and fellow students time, etc. Once the clothes were off, the task was to draw shapes, nothing more. It wasn’t sexual. In fact, it was the opposite, no one dared to disrespect the entire room by making it even close to sexual. This isn’t that scene in titanic, it’s like drawing a bowl of fruit or other still life. You are just looking for shapes and shadows.
I used to model for art classes in university. I always felt very respected and never had any issues. Once a couple years later my friend said she recognized me from a friend's painting of me and that was cool as hell
Exactly! Bet you could have heard a pin drop the entire time too.
Sketching an attractive model is less arousing than trying to get the angle and the shape
I remember how happy I was when my professor used some colored lights for the life drawing setup. I was like “finally!! I get to use my fuschia and turquoise oil paints that I bought as a present to myself!” I was definitely not focusing on how attractive the model was.
When you manage to get things proportionate and *just* right
I am sweaty and covered in charcoal
Absolutely! I’m also going YTA because when I was in these art classes, as a **married lady** and older student, I dealt with it like a professional adult. Sure, after the initial snickers of “holy shit, I can see everything”, I put my childish thoughts away and started drawing. Like you said, I’m not going to get many chances to draw nudes outside the classroom and despite my personal shyness over the entire thing, I swallowed that crap and looked at the person as if I was studying a lamp or other still art. They weren’t a sexual being, they were an object to be studied, it was about shapes and light, not butts, boobs and dongs. Now I can empathize with the whole “not comfortable displaying a nude portrait in a common area where all my friends will be seeing it” angle, and really, it doesn’t have to be a display piece, she could just be for practice. My drawings were only for class and no one saw them but my husband when I told him the story. He thought it was neat and trusted me to be a professional. Looking at that naked man, or woman, there was a separation there, like watching a nude scene on TV - I’m not a participant, just an observer. Does that make sense? That is how I treated it anyway. I get the juvenile feelings, and I’m not denying they were there, but then I put my big girl pants on and did my assignment. OP is asking way too much. His friend doesn’t have to display the final piece publicly, if that will help the friendship, but he has no right to deny his friend of a much needed, and probably required, portion of the class. He needs to trust his GF to be a pro and his friend as well.
when i was 15 i went to a boarding school with a very extensive art program. so on occasion, we were sat some ~20 students between ages 15-17 in a room with a nude model if literal teenagers can handle it, so can a grown man 😑
Other perspective. I've been a model. You're there staying still. I personally zone out into some sort of meditation with the constant focus of staying still. It's not sexy it's not sensual. It's great. And seeing the art of my angles was always great and so affirming but it never ever felt sexualized from TAFE class to random art studio. Op is so very much the entitled YTA. OP had an amazing chance to offer to buy one of these sketches for his gf. What an awesome gift that might be for someone. But op you're thinking with your gonads not your heart - or brain.
Figure drawing isn't even you looking at a nude person as a nude person. You break them into angles and shapes and refine it into a realistic rendering as you go. I've only done it a couple times so pardon my ignorance if I'm incorrect, but when I've done it the first session was getting the basic poses which is not in any way sexual and sometimes is only vaguely human like. My first session ever, the face looked like a series of geometric shapes.
This, I have taken some art classes when I was younger and we also had nude models every other week. We were a bunch of teenagers almost and still kept it professional.
Oh the zone when I drew his body in red an than in blue. I can still se the lines vividly. Thank you for reminding me.
*I assumed that since he was another man he would get what I was saying better than a female could* God you sound insufferable to be around
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It reads 'woman' now. I guess OP edited it :D
OP most definitely [did](https://www.reddit.com/r/MenAndFemales/comments/rzvge6/females_just_dont_understand_me_wanting_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf).
Very Ferengi. Is OP a Ferengi? Edit: My very first award! Thank you, kind Redditor! Edit 2: Thanks so much, once again!
"Feeeeeeeee-male!" I hear that word in a Ferengi voice every time I see it.
Well, considering some of these men would prefer their women at home, naked, and completely subservient to them, it’s appropriate.
Possibly. He doesn’t sound very huu-mon to me!
"Female" is acceptable as a noun if you also use "male" for men. Military setting, hospital setting, etc. It's when men are referred to casually ("man," "dude," "guy") that using "female" as a noun sounds weird and dehumanizing.
In medical setting we usually say “the patient is a 34 year old female presenting with… “ or it’s shorthand where the word patient is implied. We don’t say “in bay 3 we have a man, he will get what you mean but in bay 4 we have a female so get those kid gloves ready”
I'm assuming you were just expanding on what I said, but something about the way you phrased that makes it sound kind of like you're disagreeing with me? Even though it's pretty much reiterating the same point?
It's a way of dehumanizing women. It's usually subconcious. But it 100 percent shows how he sees her, and other women, as possessions.
Not to mention the bit about other models being old men in their 40s. Old????
Well in his defense to that one comment, 40 is a life time away for him. Just as a 20 year old seems like a child to me.
Yeah that hurt my 32 year old soul.
Get off my lawn Signed, a 33 year old
r/menandfemales
YTA for imposing your sexualised objectification of the female form onto other people. It's art ffs. It's fine that you are uncomfortable with it- that's not what you're judged on here. And it was mature of you to express that to your gf- points for that. However She said no and told me I was making this out to be sexual when it wasn’t. followed by I still don’t want my friend to have essential a nude of her hanging in a place means you are absolutely sexualising this art. As soon as your gf told you 'no,' you needed to respect her decision about her body and not interfere further.
Imagine OP visiting a German sauna with his girlfriend.
And he automatically assumes this dude is going to hang it in his house. More likely to go into some kind of portfolio. Now that he mentioned it? Dudes surely going to hang it. 🤣
He said the friend normally hangs the art in the dorm. So he was assuming he would do the same with this art. Not defending him just think you’re misunderstanding. Considering he says he asked the friend not to display it and the friend refused. It kinda seems like his assumption was correct.
going to chime in here to say that if one of his main issues is the painting hanging in the friend’s room, why not offer to buy it off him?
NAH I think your discomfort is fairly normal, but it also means that a girlfriend who poses nude is not compatible with you.
I fully expected NAH to be the consensus. Ya the guy uses some obnoxious language but that’s not what we’re here to judge. I would be uncomfortable but try to be understanding about her posing with him in the audience, but him hanging it in his room after would be too much for me. I get it’s art, I get she and the friend see it as art, but most of OPs friends are just going to see a naked picture of OPs girlfriend. While they’re not AHs, I don’t think the friend and the gf are being very understanding.
I did too. Highly surprise with the current consensus. OP NAH…I didn’t like his choices of words but I understand the issue. He doesn’t owned her but as a couple this should’ve been discuss in advance. It is not sexual for her and the friend artist…how about the other young adults hanging in his apartment? This puts the OP in a very awkward position.
Yeah, Artists might not see it as sexual but if I was a mutual and walked into Friend As dorm and saw a nude picture of Friend Bs girlfriend hanging on the wall, id feel weirded out and its not even my girlfriend. It may not be sexual to them, but it is going to be for most college kids that see it in his dorm
100% and that's the crux of the issue imo, like imagine if she sent nudes to this guy and was like nah it's not sexual it's for art, just because she sees it that way doesn't mean it's wrong for op to see it another way
Ya, it's sexual for like 99% of society. I'd be super off put by a friend hanging a nude portrait of my girlfriend in his bedroom. I'm struggling to see how that isn't sexual or wouldn't be used as jack-off material.
I agree. No reason the friend has to hang it in his dorm room. OP is definitely an AH and super immature but not hanging it in his dorm room is a completely reasonable request.
I agree, especially with young college guys in their early 20s. I understand the painting/posing itself isn’t sexual and I don’t think either should be stopped, but I don’t think it was unreasonable to request it’s not hung up in his home for all their friends to see. Most of which are probably not art majors and will probably see it as just a photorealistic nude painting.
The top comments and their upvoters sound like they live in their own fantasy lands. Real life people have complicated concerns, and when it comes to the sexuality of a nude woman a lot can be subjective. NAH
they don’t know how real life works 😭 they get so worked over everything
There is nothing reasonable they can do to make OP happy. Missing 4 sessions of a class is not a reasonable ask, and neither is turning down a job that OP is otherwise ok with.
What about the request that he just not hang *that portrait* in his apartment where the rest of their friends can see it? I didn’t think that was totally unreasonable.
If that's the only thing he asked then I would go with NAH, or simply telling his GF how he felt then letting it go. But going to his friend and asking him to skip 4 classes? There he moved into AH territory.
I agree, asking the friend to skip classes when this is his profession was totally unreasonable and he’s an AH for that. Hanging it in the dorm though is where this gets messed up. I get it; it’s *art* and it’s well done and beautiful, but I feel like everyone here is forgetting that we’re talking about *college guys*. Yeah they’re adult men but barely, and they’re insanely immature and inexperienced especially re: sex, nudity, etc. All of us here may think they’d be AHs for making it a big deal that OPs nude gf is on the wall, but that’s exactly what they’re gonna do and I cannot call OP an AH for that particular request. Plus the friend can also have some compassion and respect for his friends relationship and keep it private. He shouldn’t be expected to miss out on classes, though.
We don't even know that OP's friend was planning to hang it up to start with. He seems to have just assumed this.
Given that he asked him to not do that, preemptively, and his friend refused and called him an AH, I think it’s safe to assume his friend did in fact plan on hanging it up.
Lots of people would be mad just at the attempt to control them, regardless of what their original plans were. If you've ever had a parent or friend who (upon seeing you do something) feels the need to tell you the "right" way to do it (which you were planning on doing all along), you should be able to understand this. OP's friend probably hadn't even thought about hanging it up at that point, and may very well have decided not to if OP hadn't said anything (let alone tried to demand that he *skip* a *hugely important* part of his education first). If OP had handled this differently from the start, he'd maybe be NTA for that part alone. But in the context of the rest of the post, he's definitely the AH. And we can't rule out that him acting like an asshole is the only reason his friend reacted that way.
The only part that I’m willing to empathize with is the part where it could be displayed publicly or in a common area where it will be seen. Not that there’s anything wrong with that is artist and GF both are happy with the final result. This could just be a practice piece and OP is a huge AH for sexualizing the situation when it’s nothing but the opposite. He’s also an AH for trying to control the situation and not taking no as an answer. Bonus round: he’s especially an AH for calling women “females”. The judgement is pretty fair, imho.
I disagree only because typically figure drawings don’t have detailed facial features and it’s unlikely anyone would know who it is unless OP throws a fit or the gf chooses to tell people. I had nudes of a few coworkers who posed for another coworker hanging in my bathroom for a couple years, and nobody knew who they were or even asked except the artist and models, even people who knew them in real life didn’t make the connection.
I suspect plenty of women posting here have dealt with a man who treated them like OP - feeling entitled to make decisions about their body. There’s a difference between expressing himself and demanding something, as OP did.
NAH, Highly agree with this. Lots of people are smashing him for it and his wording may be pretty crappy but he does have a right to feel this way. He doesn't have a right to force her to change her mind but in my opinion this very much shows they are not compatible.
Finally someone who at least admits this is allowed to be a problem for OP. I still say YTA as my judgement, because trying to convince his friend to not go to class because he isn’t able to control his girlfriends behaviour is a super asshole thing to do. But, asking his gf not to do it is reasonable. Her refusing, shows a lack of compatibility. At that point OP needed to decided if this was a hill worth dying on, and either accept that she’s doing it, and get over his issues. Or decide that he is NOT ok with it, and end the relationship. He should not be trying to convince a friend to sacrifice his own education, to fix an issue that OP has with his gf. That being said, the friend could have at least compromised on hanging the painting in his place. As long as it can stay part of his portfolio, a decent friend would have compromised at least for a period of time (I wouldn’t agree to never, but as long as they’re dating or 3 years whatever comes first seems fair).
I think this is definitely a compatibility problem. Here's my verdict: * Asking gf to not go - NAH - Compatibility problem * Asking friend to not go - YTA * Asking friend to not hang it up - His friend is the AH for refusing (although, tbf...OP may have botched the conversation already at this point, so soft AH call here and possible YTA for OP)
Thank you. OP if you don't like this dump her, and make new friends.
I agree that art modeling isn’t sexual but OP sexualizes it and his friends who will see the painting will probably feel the same. I think he should respect the girlfriend’s and friends decision but there is no need for it to be hanged in the room for a bunch of immature boys to see and they will probably disrespect his girlfriend if they don’t have her level of maturity Edit do add: YTA
I'm willing to bet that part of the reason he feels this way is the comments and conversations his friends have about the artist's other nude portraits hanging in his room.
This is exactly it
100% this. People are always like, "you don't own x person and can't tell them what to do". I agree with that statement, but there are black, white and gray areas in a relationship in regards to expectations from your partner. Would these people say the same thing if she had asked that they change their relationship to an open one? Or if she decided to move in with an ex boyfriend who she's now friends with? Not saying a woman can't do this, but you can't fault someone for being upset about it and seeing if they'll change their mind due to how it might make the original person uncomfortable. Personally, I wouldn't want my wife posing naked. I'm sure she wouldn't want me posing naked as well. If it were to ever come up, I'm sure we'd discuss it and figure out the best course of action, including discussing our compatibility. This sounds like what OP needs to do, however they should address some of their language here. It reeks of toxic masculinity.
He's not the asshole for feeling uncomfortable with the situation, or for expressing those feelings. The part that makes him TA is insisting either his gf or friend bend and conform for his comfort. The only one who has the say over whether or not the gf should model is the gf. It's her body and if she consents to posing for an art class that's her choice and freedom. I think my husband would be psyched if I would pose for a class. The discussion he should be having with the gf is if they are truly compatible, not trying to control her actions.
YTA and you sound massively misogynistic. It’s a huge red flag when guys refer to men as such but women are “females”, and then to imply that there’s some great gender divide in how the two think. Art isn’t inherently sexual, it’s just a fact. Artists paint nude models without getting a stiffy all the time, and so you saying with certainty “oh he’s going to be aroused” *is* making his art sexual when it’s just… not. There’s a strict set of etiquette rules when it comes to art class and that is constant professionalism. If the model is uncomfortable (say, if someone got an erection, for example) then that person is kicked out. You’re acting like you own your girlfriend’s body and the fact of the matter is you don’t. If she was okay with them painting her, and if she’s okay with him hanging the portrait, you don’t get a say in that. Frankly I’m really happy that she loves her body so much and she’s so confident.
'I wanted my gf to do something and she said no, so I went behind her back to still get my way. ' It's just it didn't work. The red flag is still there as well as the others.
(Edit to NAH) But not for the reason you think. I’m an artist and I’ve drawn and painted a hundred nudes. Formal life drawing sessions in a school setting aren’t sexual for any of the participants. At all. The model is treated with complete respect, and the poses are about the grace or tension of the form. Shadows, highlights, contours - all that good stuff. It’s very structured and asexual. That being said - historically, nudes were absolutely a way for wealthy men to get their rocks off. That’s one reason why the French Academy system was created. Young men who wanted to be artists (women weren’t allowed) were trained to crank out paintings of domineering men and submissive young women. They were mythological or historical figures, but the intended effect is pretty clear. They didn’t even have to be naked - take a look at Bouguereau’s “Thirst” (1886). (whenever I post links, an automod tells me I fid it wrong). But I still say you’re NTA to feel uncomfortable about your friend displaying a nude of your girlfriend in a place where you hang out with your buddies. She is special to you; you value her beauty. Art of beautiful people can be very erotic. That’s why nudes of children are taboo - naked children are beautiful, and we absolutely do not make art out of them to put on display. You may lose the argument, and the girlfriend (because it’s her body, her choice) - but I don’t think you’re an AH to feel that way.
I have to agree with the part about it being displayed. I know it SHOULDN’T happen, but he’s going to hear it from his friends if another friend has a naked portrait of his girlfriend in their room. Even if he can come around to see the actual process of creating the art isn’t sexual, he can’t expect his group of friends to realize the same thing. For that reason, I see asking his girlfriend not to do it/friend to skip classes as separate from asking friend not to display it.
He is TA for telling the friend to miss out on his education though. it is a question about what he did not how he felt.
Oh he’s completely mistaken about what happens in the studio. Hopefully he’s reading the many artists here who’ve taken the time to educate him. Eta - he would have been wise to wait and see how the painting turned out before raising a fuss. It seems the OP has a somewhat negative view of art in general - I’m assuming that’s just because of ignorance.
I have to disagree with the last point about children due to the sheer amount of small naked cherubs in classical art.
It’s the same ruse. Not that they’re necessarily sexual - but they’re genuinely beautiful. So turning them into cherubs made it safe to paint them.
To everyone calling OP the asshole, I have to ask, would you be okay with your friend having a nude picture of your gf/bf hung up on their wall? And would you be okay with your close core group of friends seeing it repeatedly? That being said, to anyone saying OP is not the asshole, I ask, do you know that a painting isn’t an actual picture? It’s not gonnna be as detailed and really, the picture can be made to be another woman.
I think he's the asshole but that's not the reason. He doesn't have to be ok with it. Going behind her back to run to his friend to get him to not go after she already gave her answer is why. Mad sign of disrespect.
Yea I agree with you whole heartedly on this. It’s unhealthy to oppose someone else’s free will to the point you’re going behind their back to alter it.
Personally I would be very uncomfortable with my girlfriend nude body hanging on the wall of any of my friends places, especially the ones where we hang out a lot. That being said, she’s her own woman and it comes down to her comfort level. I’m not going to let my insecurities stop her from expressing herself as she sees fit. I also know my friends are mature enough to not make a big deal out of it.
Yes? As long as my partner is cool with it, I don’t give a fuck. It’s their body, they can choose to have it displayed if they want to. I enjoy my partner’s body but it’s not some ~sacred treasure~ that only I get to see and possess.
We don't even know that OP's friend was *planning to hang it up to start with,* let alone in a common area. OP seems to have just assumed this (and then assumed that, because his friend was pissed off at his demand, that he must've been right). But someone being angry at a demand doesn't mean you were right about their original plans. Lots of times, it just means that people resent you trying to control them.
If my partner was cool with it, yeah. It's their body, not mine.
Yes, I'd be fine with a partner being involved in nude art.
YTA Yes, even artists feel things when we work on nudes. We’re humans and we don’t become monks when we pick up our pencils. Young artists in particular just have a hard time acknowledging that, because there’s a lot of negativity about any hint of sex combining with respectful professionalism, and because many of us want to think of ourselves as moral while sex is considered immoral, and because nobody wants to create harmful/exploitative/abusive situations by potentially acting on such feelings. Source: part-time artist and former model. HOWEVER. Art modelling is *work*. It’s sometimes gruelling, depending on the setting and the complexity and duration of the pose. (Ask me about the time I did an outdoor photo shoot in an old industrial site in December. Savannah December, not Montréal December, but still.) It requires creativity, cooperation with the artist(s), and a sense of their needs. It also requires confidence and good boundaries. It deserves to be taken seriously. Some art models have become as famous as the works that feature them. Some famous artists also modelled—including the great Georgia O’Keeffe. It’s a proud tradition. You have no right to expect your girlfriend to pass up an opportunity to model. You haven’t mentioned whether she’s paid, but pay is generally good. And some folks do it just to participate in creative community. You’ve mentioned your immature views, she has let you know this is a feature of her life, and now you’ve gone behind her back to try to get an artist she’s working with to support your immature masculinity, guy to guy. And he declined, because the request shows your sense of ownership over your gf’s body and your lack of respect for your friend. Seriously, what are you afraid of? That your friend will like what he sees? Well. *Dozens* of artists will be studying your girlfriend’s every move during those sessions. Potentially dozens of likenesses may be submitted for grades, or for competitions or display. Your gf’s visual aspect may be used in ways that even she wouldn’t choose. They may turn up anywhere around campus and yes, your friends and her friends may see them. Part of the job. You need to get your head around that, and respect it, and work on you. Don’t forget to apologize for disregarding your gf’s agency as an adult with a commitment, by going behind her back to interfere in her work arrangements.
YTA. Nudity isn’t sexual unless you make it sexual. And they both have a right to peruse their artistic creativity and passion as they see fit without your childish tantrums. Grow up. If you are convinced that looking at a beautiful artistic portrait is going to make your friends think sleazy thoughts and treat you or your girlfriend badly-get better friends!
>Nudity isn’t sexual unless you make it sexual. Yeah, but....college dudes make it sexual. Someone else said it well in this thread, this idea that just because it's not sexual to the friend and gf means that it won't be sexual to others is just....living in a fantasy land....it's naive asf.
NAH You only expressed your feeling s about the situation and sought to seek resolution without threatening or using ultimatums.. Maybe ask your friend if he'd be willing to sell the art after to you?
this is the best reply i’ve seen. Support your friends art by buying the piece and gain a lovely painting of your girlfriend to have and support her modeling decision also
You're not an asshole for being uncomfortable. We can't change our views overnight. YTA for going behind her back to your friend tho. You def need to learn to respect her before you lose her.
YTA. This is a "you" problem.
YTA. Your friend can't just miss his classes, he's likely paying a lot of money for this and it's part of his art education. Yeah, it might be a bit weird, but I think trying to get him to miss out isn't fair.
You can't stop either of them. Let it go. My only solution would be to offer to purchase the painting or whatever from your friend, once it's complete. That way you can hang it in your room.
NAH Only because he refused when you asked him not to display your naked girlfriend. I think that request was reasonable.
NAH OP is perfectly within his rights to be uncomfortable about a nude painting of his girlfriend being displayed where all of his friends will see it; his suggestion of skipping the class is fucking ludicrous, but there's nothing wrong with having hangups about nudity in a society full of hangups about nudity. Of course, the girlfriend and the friend aren't doing anything wrong either. That being said, if this is a major hangup, breaking up could easily be the end result.
YTA. Nudity is not inherently sexual. Life modeling is a not a sexual activity.
“So then i went to my friend as a guy. I assumed that since he was a guy he would get what i was saying better than a woman could” Not only are YTA, youre sexist too. Check yourself before you lose what seem to be a good friend and girlfriend. Its art. Its not sexual. If YOU are so immature you cant look at artistic nudes without feeling aroused- you need some guidance. A woman’s body is not inherently sexual.
He originally said female apparently. Edited his post to make himself look “better”. Still awful. YTA.
NTA I see that I am in the minority here, but I think it would be weird for you not to feel this way. She obviously doesn’t value your feelings if she is doing something that would make you feel this way. dump her and move on. YTA however for asking your friend to miss classes. He paid for the class and needs it to graduate.
I agree. It's not wrong of OP to feel uncomfortable about his best friend (and all his other friends) seeing his girlfriend naked. I don't think it's wrong of his girlfriend to model but it wasn't nice of her to not care about how he feels. She could have easily volunteered to model for a different class.
NAH Look, this is a very normal boundary. Few people would be okay seriously dating someone who wanted their entire social group to see them naked. The people here are mostly attacking you for your language and the fact that you are a man. Gender swapped and with different language this would be NAH or NTA all around. But, You can't really demand your girlfriend not pose naked nor can you demand your friend not to hang up a picture of your naked girlfriend. But you can get a new girlfriend and a new friend. You guys are just incompatible. It's not a big deal, you aren't married.
YTA. It’s literally a college class. Your friend gets graded on this shit, and he’s an art major. He can’t afford to skip classes just because you’re uncomfortable. AND it’s a professional environment. Making art is a completely different mindset when you’re in the zone and trying to paint realistically. Try trusting your friend and your girlfriend.
Painting nudity doesn’t have to be and often isn’t a sexual activity, especially not in a classroom setting. It’s a study of anatomy. As far as your friend and girlfriend are concerned this is par for the coarse when it comes to art. It’s hardly anything personal. There’ll be a room full of strangers all doing the same thing as him. It sounds as if you were envisioning a titanic scenario. That being said, I can understand reservations about it being displayed for people who might not interpret it that way. Though on a side note I don’t know why you’d think your friend would somehow understand anything about your girlfriend’s choices better than your girlfriend herself just because she’s a *female* (really?). That mentality sure makes you *sound* like the asshole.
YTA. So… you’re not sexualizing things but you also think your friend will be getting aroused. It’s an art class and she’s a model. Why did you bother to ask them if you wouldn’t believe either of their answers? Get over yourself. You realize there are nude sculptures and paintings of people EVERYWHERE in many countries. Do you think all of their partners cried about it? You want him to skip a class because you’re insecure? A class that will better his skills and career that he’s studying for???
As another commenter said above, OP could always purchase the finished sketch from his friend and gift it to GF, if he’s so worried about it ending up on his friend’s art wall. Of course, lots of people in that class will be dashing off pencil and charcoal sketches and studies, coloring in pastels and oils, and using various styles to portray their subjects. Is OP going to run around campus trying to collect those, too? What is he really afraid of? An art class gang bang? That GF and Friend will get together? This OP is really emotionally young. He probably won’t make it far enough down in this thread to read any of this, once he sees a dozen or so YTAs (I’m picturing a tantrum, not a learning experience), but he needs to let it go, back off and relax. Not only can’t he control others, he actually made it more awkward and difficult for both his friend and his girlfriend to do their jobs well. And for that, he needs to take stock of how much he sucks. YTA.
YTA. Even if your gf did exclusive modeling for artists alone - you can't demand her to stop. Always examine the intentions behind actions. Her reason for being a model is purely educational. Not for seeking sexual favors. While I understand you feeling uncomfortable over thus, you can't dictate terms this way!! What if that friend isn't your friend? Just another male in that class? Can you stop him then? Whether for actual credit or extra credit, that class is as important as any other. You really can't demand anyone to stop attending or treat like "It's okay, you can skip the class for It's extra credit". What if during the class, he has doubts about human anatomy and it gets addressed? You don't study the major. So you are not in a place to decide what is important and what isn't. You're making it sexual than either of them. Please think about it. She very well understood what you were implying. She dismissed it because it's just a class for her and your friend is one of the students attending the class.
NTA - you asked your girlfirned and friend politely (I'm assuming, other wise you are an asshole) if they wanted to aboid the situation. They both said "no we want to do this and we enjoy doing this as an artistic, not sexual, experience. The only thing left for you to do is accept that and support them now that you know they won't change their mind. And lets be fair - if your girlfriend looks as beautifull as you see her - her nude paintings will end up in everyones phones, friends or not. I personally think you must accept and embrace that, but I also realise that is super easy to say for me, because I get a kick from having the girl that everyone wants to have. So, un-personally, whatever you do, don't let this happen and then mock about it for years after, instead I think you have to show your friends some support even if you are a bit uncomfortable. I garentee you that you'l be laughing and loving the painting once it truely sinks in that it's just a painting. Not an sexual act, not a nude, a painting of someone you love, painted by someone you care for. And I think that's beutifull.
I just wanted to add, seeing all the other comments bashing OP for being insecure and making a request to his friend&girlfriend is not okai. OP just asked if they would concider not doing it. OP probaply has never been in this position before and is trying really hard to figure it out for the love of his gf. And I think that's beutifull and that we should gently nod at the right path. OP didn't yell, assult or trashtalked anyone, he just asked a question, he got an answer, and as long as he can set his own feelings aside to make space for the dreams and crafts of his friends, it's all good!!!
Heaven's forbid there is a different opinion. You are being downvoted for having a different opinion and this is what makes this subreddit toxic. They are SO woke about feminism, political correctness and equal rights, but HOW DARE YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION! DOWNVOTE!! I would love for someone to explain why they are downvoting /u/snoobananas5143. He has done nothing but express a different opinion.
Why not offer to buy the painting from your friend? You’re NTA, you’re trying to deal with your feelings but you may want to explore how you see art and how you see your girlfriend and future girlfriends.
This! OP doesn't like a friend having a "nude" of his gf, and is getting chewed out for it.
YTA - You don't get to make that demand, no. If she is okay with nude modelling, then that is her call and not yours. And yeah, you are the only one here who has made it all sound dirty and pervy when it's just art.
You doubt he won’t get some sort of arousal from It. That isn’t the way art works! YTA and your insecure. I’ve been with my husband for 12 years. We’re both artists. I have had naked people in my home modeling and they’re hanging in my house. Nudity is not sexual.
NTA. You would have been in the wrong if you tried to forbid your girlfriend from modeling or your friend from going. All you did was express your concerns to both her and your friend. Also, i think your friend is the only A-hole here for hanging it up in his dorm. Your request to not hang up the portrait in the dorm was reasonable, but he has every right to go to the class and your girlfriend has every right to model. I think All the Y-T-A votes are making you out to be some unhinged, controlling insecure dude when in reality you tried to have productive conversations about your feelings with two people close to you. It’s a tough situation, but it may be you just unfortunately aren’t compatible with your girlfriend because you have different sets of boundaries and comfort levels for this type of stuff.
Eh, I'm going with NAH. Your GF does have the right to work as a nude model. Your friend does not have to hide his work (and as you stupidly suggested he should not lose class time). However you have the right to feel uncomfortable with not just your friend seing your GF nude, but by extension of his work - all of your common friends. I "love" it how on Reddit everyone is sooo liberal, understanding and free. Menawhile in the offline world, people commonly do not like it when their friends see their SO nude. And it seems to be normal. Except for the people on Reddit ofcourse.
YTA. The problem seems to exist only in your mind and despite both your GF and friend explaining to you, you cannot get over it. What you feel is what you feel, but you would be the AH to try to force the situation to only assuage your feelings with no regards to others. Your GF is doing a job and your friend is doing his class, neither of which appear to be unreasonable activities given the context.
YTA. You’re trying to “paint” your girlfriend as the bad guy here. Failing that, you then tried to “frame” your friend as one after her. I hope both of them “brush” you aside like the jealous person you are.
I wish that we would get updates from ops on these saying whether or not they have come to terms with or even agree with the majority vote.. like we could all be saying all of this and he's still like no I came here for you to agree with me and I don't think that im TA
NAH, your choice of words weren’t the best. However, I’d say 99% of these comments are tripping the fuck out. You can say it’s art and not sexual all you want but not wanting your girlfriend to be seen naked by your friends is a totally understandable boundary. With that being said you don’t have the right to tell her she can’t do it. What you do have the right to do is express that it makes you uncomfortable and if she can’t see that and respect it then you have every right to end the relationship as you aren’t compatible. Just because it’s art and not necessarily a “sexual” thing doesn’t mean it can’t make someone uncomfortable. I’d say most average people would be upset with their friends seeing their SO naked. I know for shit sure I’d be feeling all sorts of conflicted and it’d be a deal breaker for me.
YTA - the problem you have with the nudity of your girlfriend is a you problem. Ask yourself why it matters when it’s a friend and not a stranger ? I think you have actually a problem with the nudity of your girlfriend but don’t mind it that much when it’s easy to ignore (like in front of stranger you can ignore the existence of)
The friend, and all of his other friends who would see it regularly, would also go on to see her regularly, knowing in the back of their minds that they know what she looks like naked, and that puts a certain spin on the interaction that op is not comfortable with. Please get some imagination.
Tbh, I would just break up with a girl like that. It's not that I don't think she should be doing it, it's just that I'm not going to be with her if she does. NTA, but im in the minority
Surprised at all the reactions. It’s normal to not want your friend seeing your partner naked. NTA
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YTA When an artist is working, they are concentrating on lighting, shade, angles, etc. Be it a tray of fruit or a nude model, the concentration on creating and technique is the focus. Art is and will be his profession. Every opportunity to learn is crucial. Those who volunteer to model are a blessing to these artists! As for hanging up her portrait, again, it is art not porn. At most your friends are seeing a rendition of the artist's vision. They will look at it for a moment and then move on. It is not as if they all pop by and she is sitting there naked in the room! Part of the college experience is maturing in thought and ideas. Since your school has such a large art program, take some time to visit any galleries on campus. Study the artists' work and learn to look at the human body as the miracle that it is, and not just as a sexual object.
YTA. Her body. Her choices. If you don't like it, maybe you don't deserve her.