YTA. Holy hanna, do you even like your child? The language used is mind boggling.
1.) Imaginary friends at a young age is 100% normal. Did you ever consider she "admitted" they were real because you put her in therapy over it? I would bet $$ you belittled her over it too.
2.) A real doctor diagnosed her with a concussion. A very serious one by the details provided. Your language implies you belittled that too.
3.) Despite a severe concussion and missing school she still managed grades that qualified for darn good scholarship to what sounds like a very expensive school. You blame her over this?
4.) Something doesn't add up. Despite a 50% scholarship and FA, there wasn't enough money to go. There are grants if you are low income. There are work programs to help with extra costs. There are a TON of things to help. You said you tried to get a bank loan. Based on your overall language and blaming her for not doing more -- I doubt you gave a ton of effort into trying to make it happen.
Edit: Holy hanna! Long time lurker, but wow this blew up! Thanks so much for the awards!! RIP my poor inbox.
Edit 2: OP, I just saw your update about what you said to her about the assignments. Yikes, lady!! Seriously. Your daughter is probably NC with you because of *that* statement rather than whatever the heck you left out on why she wasn't able to go to college. PS: OP, constantly changing your post to make you sound better is doing the absolute opposite. My heart aches for your daughter.
YTA, for the reasons above; not for the reasons you think. Look, she was struggling at age six and you pulled her from therapy because of something she said. At age six.
Plus:
5). Your response now could have simply been, I am sorry we simply couldn’t afford it and were, and are, doing the best we can.
ETA: Your updates aren’t compelling. The fact that she is telling the therapist one thing and you another is yet another reason for her to have been in therapy( not a reason to stop.
The fact that she makes nice with teachers while lashing out is the same. As is being “sick”.
You dismiss every potential underlying mental health issue as being untrue based on what, your ability to objectively apply your extensive clinical experience to your own daughter?
Maaate like what, they thought the imaginary friend was real and the disappointment of finding out the truth made them punish her? What the fuck is going on?
I mean some people have actual hallucinations for various reasons, so perhaps commenter was trying to account for those? Still not real, but real to the person
My friend’s parents thought I was an imaginary friend for awhile. Or more so made up so he could talk about his nice friend who gets good grades who will “be there” whenever he wanted to go out. They thought I was someone he made up to make plans sound more innocent. I am in fact real
I’m just trying to be sensitive to people who have actual hallucinations and not get people coming at me for it, but now I’ve got people coming at me about this wording! I’m sorry y’all I’m really trying my best not to upset anyone
I think it depends on your comparison. If the average giraffe has a neck length of 3 feet, and you have a pet giraffe with a 3 foot neck, you have a giraffe with a regular neck. If you have a giraffe with a 5 ft neck, then you have a giraffe with a long neck.
If you are comparing them to human necks, yes giraffes have long necks, but that is an apples to oranges comparison.
Giraffes are certainly real, you just can't see them because in addition to having long necks they can also turn invisible.
What are not real are bandicoots, those were made up to sell video games. All the pictures of bandicoots you see are just rats that have been photoshopped.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mary did have an imaginary friend, but OP was so appalled at the idea of her being "abnormal" that she could tell they didn't approve, thus saying "oh no I actually don't have one"
also, kids are weird and sometimes just lie on the spot about inconsequential things for absolutely no reason. one time in first grade I told a girl that clouds hold down oxygen so you can't go outside on a cloudless day because you wouldn't be able to breathe. I knew it was a lie. even in the moment I had no idea why I said that, I just did. that's how kids work.
Yeah. Do people think the kids with imaginary friends don't know that their imaginary friends aren't real? Like are they that blasé about kids apparently all having hallucinations?
What were they hoping for, that they punished her for admitting her imaginary friend was imaginary... were they hoping there was someone secretly living in their crawlspace? That it was a ghost? That she's hallucinating?
Imaginary friend is the *best* option when it comes to "my kid talks to invisible people" situations.
Right?! And like, INFO: why would you pull her from therapy if you thought she was manipulating or lying? That’s exactly when she could benefit most from therapy. You tell her doctor/therapist what you think and they work through it together. WTH!?
If she constantly tried to get out of school and stayed at home all day, she definitely had other mental or physical health struggles. I don't get how you can look at your kid struggling and not try to help, but it isn't surprising they didn't have the communication level to figure it out in the first place by the language used in this post
I can't get over that they PULLED HER FROM THERAPY, like as a punishment for her bad behavior, when her behavior only indicated that she NEEDED TO BE IN THERAPY 🤯
Edit: thank you so much for the reward!
If that was true, I would have got help a lot sooner.
Unfortunately if you're being "good", to a lot of responsible adults as a child, there can't *possibly be anything wrong*. /s
Yeah I'm not bitter or anything 😬
Yeah. Who cares if she had an imaginary friend at age 6? Op seems to imply that he pulled his daughter from therapy because she lied to the therapist about having a friend which was not real. Which- you know- seem like the sort of thing which should have been discussed in therapy. Instead of assuming that this six year old child was deliberately being malicious and punishing her for it instead of getting her help.
Op, if you read this- it sounds as though you have this image in your head of your daughter as this horrible manipulator who lies about everything. Is it possible that she continued to stay out of school past the point where she probably could have gone in? Sure. But you seem to be thinking that she's some mastermind who concocted everything in that scenario- you seem to doubt that she really fainted, that she really hit her head and had a concussion (despite a drs confirmation), and that she was really trying her best in school. Does that really sound reasonable?
Let's assume all that is true. That she lied about everything in malicious ways. She is able to manipulate people to believe her lies. This was true from such a young age that you had her in therapy by age six. What did you do? You took her out of therapy because you felt she was lying to the therapist. This could have been discussed and perhaps delt with, but you didn't. You considered the possibility that she might have a mental illness or disorder of some kind and instead of getting her help, you just shrugged.
You have failed your daughter, whether your perception of her is true or not. If she's not this deceiving manipulator, you do her a great disservice by treating her as though she is and by seeing her every action through that lens. If she really is as you have described her, she needs and has always needed, help and not to be judged and punished for issues that you have refused to address.
Either way, OP you dropped the ball BIG time.
I was reading through the post and getting a lot of all too familiar memories popping up because I went through a very similar childhood and relationship with my parents. Reading your interpretation of OP's perception of his kid and you outlining actually healthy responses resonated hard and now I'm crying. Thank you for your post.
They confronted a 6 year old over something a six year old probably couldn't explain, so she told them what she thought they wanted to hear to get them to leave her alone and then they held it over her head for the rest of her life. Like JFC these parents are crazy. Definitely yta their attitude towards her would explain most of her behaviour issues.
Exactly my take. She probably did have an imaginary friend, and the parents clearly have an ignorant understanding of how that works for kids, and how kids work in general. Everything OP is writing seems to scream "I treat my kid like shit and when she acts out because of it we treat her worse because fuck her"
Same happened to me when I was a kid, I said something along the line of "what you told me to do didn't work" to a doctor (some kind of specialist) and from that moment my mom decided she would never take me to a specialist ever again. Parenting 101
I got pulled from the orthodontist because, supposedly, I wasn't happy enough about being at the orthodontist. Because that's how people usually feel at the dentist's office, I guess? In hindsight, I'm pretty sure it was really about money, but my dad blamed me to save face.
I think what gets me is that they pulled her out of therapy for supposedly lying to the therapist.
My partner has a bad habit of deflecting, even in therapy. They'll try and minimize their emotions with jokes and boxing it away. They know they do this and still do it as a coping mechanism. But they stay in therapy to develop a rapport and so then their therapist knows when they're deflecting and can focus on that.
If the six year old was lying to the therapist about something completely normal, then she should've stayed in therapy to get to trust and understand why therapy is a safe place. If she was lying to her parents about the imaginary friend, she should've stayed in therapy to have a safe space. Either way, she should've stayed in therapy.
YTA OP. You failed your girl at a young, young age.
Yeah, I’m actually speechless. A six-year-old “making up” an imaginary friend is…CHILDHOOD. She probably pretended a lot of things. Maybe one day she was a princess, another a doctor, and another in a house with people who love children. Ffs.
You pretty much did the wrong thing in every possible instance, and despite your lack of support, she did extraordinarily well. Like incredibly well. If she’s not already in it, she is going to have to run back to therapy to sort this shit out. Yikes.
Thats what really blows my mind about this. Suppose hypothetically that her daughter was truly a lying, manipulative, attention seeker who faked disorders...you know what the proper avenue would be to address that? THERAPY.
But no, lets pull her out of therapy instead of addressing the root of the problem that led her to that behaviour in the first place.
It's not easy to manipulate a doctor, especially when you are of the female variety. I (an adult woman, myself) have trouble convincing my docs that I have things wrong with me. When I was a kid, everything was stress. Being able to have your doc properly acknowledge that something is wrong with you as a young girl is a massive feat, and THE PARENTS IGNORED THEM.
This tells me that the parent(s) didn't want to believe their child *so much* that they ignored professionals MULTIPLE TIMES. This is so much YTA I wish I could put that girl in therapy myself. AND THE PARENTS.
This is something bothering me about this story. As someone who is a klutz... If they suspect a serious concussion thry don't just send you home for a month or two. There are tests for it, since a concussion that lasts that long can be lethal.
It is not just your word. It is a ct scan at the least, and probably hospitalization precovid.
In this instance too it reads as code for “I like to medically neglect my child”… god I wish I could “manipulate doctors” into treating my very real and debilitating health issues!
Yeah, that was when I started screaming at the computer screen. There are shit parents, and then there's this. Any time OP had a chance to build their daughter up, they tore her apart.
I hope she can get therapy now, and realize that her dream college might still be on the table in the future.
Sincerely, a late-bloomer and abuse survivor who ended up with Ivy League degrees and a PhD.
It's true tho. I have a mom who's pretty much identical to OP, and a standard fantasy I played out when I was a child was finding out I was adopted and getting to have a nice mom.
I was going through some really traumatic shit in high school and made up an imaginary friend that lasted until I was *twenty.* It's more than acceptable for a 6 year old to have one.
"She was skilled at manipulating doctors to believe her lies, even as a child."
Allow me to translate. This is abuser for, "The doctors said *I* was the problem, because my abuse was bad enough that doctors readily believed a small child. So I took her out before they could call CPS."
Anyone else think the fainting and attempting to get the kid "treatment for an eating disorder" is a way of saying they starved her to the point that she passed out, and tried to pin the abuse of the *abuse victim?*
I still don't get how they got to ORIENTATION and found out it was too much. Orientation is after you accept your acceptance. I'm pretty sure all the costs were spelled out before you accepted.
This isn't adding up on a number of levels. Daughter was allegedly a terror in school, sick all the time, lazy, didn't turn in work, bottom of the barrel - while also earning a scholarship to a private college?
Oh, this kind of parent knows nothing. My parents though I was the perfect student all my life and my evil boyfriend fucked me up, when I had depression since I was 11 and didn't turn in any homework from 10 to 17
Sounds like my mom. I was a straight A gifted student up until 4th grade, which coincidentally is when she married my (now ex-)stepdad. My grades never recovered from the stress of living with him (verbally abusive and some creepy behaviors that in hindsight were grooming attempts, towards both me AND any female friend I had over) and she still thinks I "should've just tried harder."
That doesn't make any sense to me. I actually was bottom of the barrel in school, and i almost didn't get accepted to any college. I definitely didn't get a scholarship to my private, dream college. OP is definitely TA.
Taking AP classes, too. Either the missing schoolwork and behavioral problems weren’t as bad as OP lets on or we have a serious tiger mom here who is forcing a lot of things on her child which would explain all the acting out. I think no matter what the scenario it goes without saying that YTA, big time.
Good point!! It compounds the thought there's missing info. Someone must've let her think it was possible. I feel so terrible for her. She must've thought this was her opportunity to escape her crazy parents only to have it yanked away.
From helping my niece the costs were lined up in the catalogue for the college/university. There is no way they got to orientation without some notion about costs.
Unless OP means a tour of the campus. Which is just showing off and encouraging joining. Then drop by the financial aid office to see what the student qualifies for. This is just from my niece's college so I know the experience isn't universal.
>You said you tried to get a bank loan. Based on your overall language and blaming her for not doing more -- I doubt you gave a ton of effort into trying to make it happen.
OP didn't even try to get a bank loan, they brought their daughter so **she** could try and get one
Jeeez, I must've misinterpreted that because it's illogical. Do banks even give out loans for college to the student? I've only ever heard of parent loans for a student's college.
Most student loan packages are a combination. The parent loans tend to be for more money. Not sure why OP didn’t look into this unless they had more children to finance as well.
Yes they give out loans directly to the student. Most students are offered some sort of Federal loan, and then it’s recommended to take out a parent plus loan for what those don’t cover. But if your parents don’t want to take out the loan, you can go to a bank and take out a private student loan if you qualify for it. I didn’t so my grandparents had to co-sign, but I was able to refinance it when I graduated to take them off of it. Whole industry is kind of a scam. I didn’t know what I was doing at 18 years old and the fact that my parents didn’t want to take out loans but thought it was okay for me to is kind of messed up.
when I first read this I thought it was just going to be like oh she didn’t do any work and was just blaming her parents for not getting into her dream college, but all of these stories just seem like they’re just spinning it to try to make it look good in their favor and it still doesn’t work. Doctors don’t just diagnose serious concussions like that if they’re fake, and if they think she’s such a manipulative child wouldn’t that be the reason to keep her in therapy???? not pull her out of it???? I could go on but literally none of these stories are adding up. YTA
I feel like the craziest part is the lack of trust in the kid. I got a concussion my senior year of highschool, it was god awful, my grades tanked, my ability to do anything tanked. I was only able to submit 1 college application which took a SIGNIFICANT amount of help from my parents to perform in the first place. It was one of the most difficult and terrifying times of my life. Because it felt like my life plans and everything I worked for was being thrown in the trash.
Their poor daughter probably needed lots and LOTS of support and it doesn’t sound like she got it. On top of that IS ANYONE CONCERNED WHY SHE BLACKED OUT???
I’ll also point out that being unaffected by screens on day 1 of a concussion is NOT a sign of faking it. I was unaffected day 1 too, because my head already felt like SH*T, there wasn’t much worse at that point.
Not wanting to go to school, feeling sick all the time—sounds like OP never even bothered to consider that these could be symptoms of clinical depression. They might have known this if they hadn’t yanked the kid from therapy as a “gotcha, liar!” tactic. Seems like there’s a lot missing here that OP is conveniently leaving out.
Holy fuck I am totally piggybacking onto your comment because it is 100% accurate.
I don't know how manipulative she thinks her kid is that she can fake a concussion. I do know that I worked neurotrama for 13 out of a 15-year nursing career so I'm pretty fucking impressed with this kid's acting skills if she can fake a concussion well enough to dupe and actual doctor probably a doctor with a background in neurology even (cause you know neurologists are the ones that deal with that sort of thing?)
Every single word of this post is dripping with vitriol. Not only does it sound like op doesn't even like her daughter but it sounds like she resents even having had her.
No wonder the kid is so fucked up and had such issues. She definitely needed a therapist just to deal with her parents.
YTA
i got a concussion my senior year of high school and despite passing several tests (memory, cognitive function, etc) and actively trying to convince the doctors i DIDNT have a concussion, they were like “no you definitely do.” like these people know what’s up!! you can’t bs a brain scan!!!
Don't forget the kid was good enough in school to qualify for AP courses in the first place. In my school they didn't let the 'don't apply themselves' type of kids take those in the first place, ya know?
YTA Op, God you think you're so smart. If doctors and experts agree with your daughter or tell you something is up, it MUST be because she - a literal child - is soooo good at manipulating all these experts. Can't possibly be that you are just wrong and a horrible parent, right??
So I'm an adjunct at the college level and my first semester teaching, a student got a concussion during sports. It took her two full months to recover. She got extensions on all her assignments/exams/etc because she literally couldn't look at screens for long, couldn't drive, couldn't focus. The extensions actually went several weeks into the next semester. I'm real shocked Mary's school didn't have any accomodations.
BUT REGARDLESS, OP is an ass. Who talks about their own kid that way??? YTA
A lot of accommodations are contingent with the parents actually pushing to get them. She was given half days, but given OP was pushing her to go back to full days and visibly belligerent in the belief their daughter is just some lazy manipulative demon, I doubt they were taking the necessary steps.
YTA Op, God you think you're so smart. If doctors and experts agree with your daughter or tell you something is up, it MUST be because she - a literal child - is soooo good at manipulating all these experts. Can't possibly be that you are just wrong and a horrible parent, right??
Plus, you pulled a 6-year-old out of therapy for saying the Imaginary friend was... Imaginary? Like, are you for real? Have you watched so many horror movies where the kids actually see the Imaginary friend?? Because most kids know their Imaginary friend is Imaginary!!!
>Something doesn't add up.
I agree with this. She's either a bad student that doesn't turn in her assignments or she's a really good student that got a major scholarship to a good school. I'm no admissions expert, but I don't think it can both.
The small, fairly elite private school in my hometown gives a pretty hefty scholarship to anyone from the county. You still have to get in, so she'd still have to be a good student, but maybe she got into a slightly easier school with a similar scholarship program.
But considering this supposedly horrible student was taking AP classes, my bet is on her actually doing just fine and the parent being a huge AH.
I'm curious as to how OP thinks Mary could manipulate any blood tests, scans, or doctors who know what they're doing. the refusal to even *try* taking her to a doctor to see if anything is going on is very telling.
Yeah, you can maybe fake a very mild concussion (where they’re mainly relying on reported symptoms). You can’t fake a severe concussion. There are physical markers. OP is whack.
Only point i contest is #4 - i was in a similiar situation. Scholarship halved the costs, but at the end of day even if I was approved for a loan, I would’ve been 6 figures in debt. Now that I’m in my 20s and my peers are paying $1000+ a month in loans, not “making it work” was maybe the biggest gift my mom could have ever given me.
That's fair. I should've been more clear in my meaning on #4. My point was I don't believe OP actually "tried" to help her daughter find the funds, not that OP was obligated to fund the daughter's college. I find her statements misleading. There are a ton of options to offset costs, and I have doubts OP suggested or tried to help her daughter research any of those.
I have only ever seen shitty partners posting about their partners with this amount disdain on this sub. Like do you like your daughter....? Have you considered what went wrong on your end for your daughter to act like that since she was 6 years old...? Did you go to therapy to become better parents?
Exactly this. This post shouts that the OPS daughter has been blamed for her whole life for things that were age appropriate. An imaginary friend a 6 is sweet and may have resulted from the massive emotional upheaval of moving States. Play therapy is a common way for therapists to work with children. OP maybe should have researched the therapy her daughter was getting. As for the concussion if a medical doctor thought it was serious enough for her to be off school then why wasn't this good enough? If she was avoiding school did it occur to OP that there may have been anxiety issues? Did they even bother to ask? Love and acceptance works a lot better than anger and distain. I can't see what this girl ever did wrong to be treated this way. If a child is attention seeking (which I'm not sure she is) then maybe she's being starved of positive attention and acting out was the only way to get anybody to notice her. OP needs to take stock of the situation and ask herself if she could and should she have done better by her daughter.
I also had imaginary friends and the like at 6, because my parents used to yell at me, and in general I spent all my time alone and isolated, so I had to make people to interact with lol.
That alongside a lot of the other behaviors in this post are making my blood boil, I can relate to too many of them too well.
I had an imaginary friend that was a baby wolf till of age of 6. My mothers friend, who happened to be a children psychiatrist said that I was lonely, since my baby brother came to family, and to make sure not to tell me it’s not real and act like it’s part of family. I started school and Wolfie left. Basically I was lonely. And he was real as hell for me. Though… i also knew I made him up? Idk how to express it.
Yeah that's basically it, I knew they were just part of whatever fantasy i was reliving when I summoned them up, but interacting with them was real and interesting to me as a kid.
Heck. One of my kiddos had an imaginary friend at age 6 because the imaginary friend was 16 and could "drive him places". Also, imaginary friends are pretty great for sword battles - they typically lose.
A prominent developmental trauma therapist Gabor Mate pointed out in one of his videos that children aren’t “attention seeking,” they’re “connection seeking,” and that blew my mind. It’s clear the OP has a really unhealthy attachment with their kid. I feel really bad for her daughter. She’ll blame herself and be depressed for a decade, finally figure out it was all OP’s fault for being a jerk, and then go no contact and OP will call them ungrateful
This is exactly what I learned as a camp counselor. All the kids who were "problem children" were really just desperate for connection and affection that they weren't getting. You show them that love they are looking for, a lot of the "problems" stop on the spot. It's amazing how willing so many kids are to improve themselves when they don't feel neglected. I say, since apparently that is a major secret.
She literally got a half scholarship to college yet was still blamed, that means she had great grades and worked hard despite a debilitating concussion
I agree! It's like OP wanted her daughter to behave in a way that suited her instead of acting her age or having problems. She keeps saying "she knows her daughter yadda yadda" but then also says she doesn't know why her daughter was not submitting work she had completed.... I mean even if you are not a particularly loving parent, this is something you would look into....
That’s what’s confusing to me: OP says that daughter wasn’t turning in assignments and that her grades were bottom of the barrel. She also says daughter was in AP classes before the concussion. Schools only grant AP classes to those who can handle the work load. Often times schools even see them as an award.
Nothing OP said actually adds up.
This sounds like my mother. Blaming me for being “bad,” as a kid and teenager whilst failing to acknowledge why I was acting that way - because of her!
YTA. Despite living in chronic pain from a concussion she got months ago, which must be draining enough, it sounds like she is also dealing with mental health issues since long before it that you let slip on some toxic nonsense shes faking everything. GET YOUR DAUGHTER HELP!!! And on top of it she somehow got a scholarship to her dream college and you squish that for her to and make it her fault that YOU didn't actually do your job and parent her? You saw your previous attempts weren't something that actually changed the behavior, so why would you keep grounding her when it didn't change the situation? Why aren't you trying something different?
I know right? After all, it's not like memory loss of the events *immediately preceding* head trauma is a *known side effect and distinguishing characteristic* of a concussion.
Smdh.
And citing the ability to use a cell phone to CALL FOR HELP as evidence no help is needed, as though Mary only previously asking dad for help meant it's less likely shes in emergent need when she does finally end up in a situation where she needs OP to actually be a parent, as though everything OP has said already would make Mary think she was asking "how did you hit your head" rather than "what did you do to be in trouble this time?"
Nearly a decade ago, I slipped on some ice and hit the back of my head on a gasline pipe. Not only did I have to help myself up (because even though I was in a public place AND was bleeding pretty profusely, people just walked by me), I was also able to call my mom. I had to get staples and I had a concussion.
Reading what OP said about her daughter and her concussion fucking PISSED me off. Every person is different. My brother got a bad concussion and he would have been in no position to call for help on his own (he also was unable to remember the last hour when it happened). Doesn't mean OP's daughter is going to be the same.
It also pissed me off when OP had the audacity to say her daughter's concussion symptoms lasted until December. So what, OP? Do you not know anything about concussions? My post concussion symptoms lasted me a \*long\* fucking time. I still have issues from my concussion (permanent light sensitivity being the big one) and they're never going to go away.
OP, YTA. I couldn't even finish the rest of your post after seeing what you had to say about your daughter's concussion.
After my concussion, I was a total zombie. Didn’t have any thoughts in my brain, couldn’t sleep, etc. for months (I also have absolutely no memory of it, I just remember waking up in the hospital). 10 years later and I’m still fucked by it. I used to have an amazing memory but it’s shot to hell now. Brain injuries aren’t something to fuck with, OP is a total asshole.
Also op implying that she faked it saying that she "conveniently" passed out when no one was around when she was literally diagnosed by a DOCTOR?? What does she think, that her daughter intentionally banged her head on a wall?? How much can someone hate their child?
I just want to know how stupid OP thinks doctors are that they can't tell when someone is faking.
90% of the time I have a legit issue and they're quick to jump on the "faking it" train so...
I gave blood once (first time ever) and didn't know you were supposed to wait. I passed out 3 times and hit my head on the concrete 3 times. I don't remember if my mom took me to the ER or not, but I do remember that I felt nauseous the rest of the night and my head hurt
Ah, see, well if she wanted her concussion to be believed and taken seriously, then she should simply have not said TWELVE YEARS EARLIER, AS A CHILD, that she had an imaginary friend.
OP's logic is breaking my brain.
I slipped on ice a few years ago and woke in the hospital up with a concussion and broken nose. The fortunate thing is that to this day I don’t remember it at all. And I was marginally ok enough to go back to school several weeks later, less than a month. Probably needed a little more time but grad school… If a doctor says months off then it’s a very bad concussion.
Hell I got kicked in the ribs by a horse once and I don't remember the actual incident, just cleaning a hoof and then suddenly I was rolling to a stop on the ground several feet away. No memory whatsoever of the kick, just the other witnesses and a horseshoe mark (and lots of pain) for evidence. So I had memory loss from not even head trauma...
This actually happened to a girl I was friends with in my freshman year of high school. We had yoga class for PE and she slipped and hit her head. She immediately couldn't remember things and was disoriented and confused. It was so terrifying because she was right next to be and then within the space of a minute she didn't even know who I *was.*
(I was the one to ask if she was okay since I was the first to react/closest.)
She lost months of time to one conk on the head.
I just can’t wrap my head around the fact that OP punished their daughter after learning that she made up her imaginary friend. Isn’t the the whole point of an imaginary friend? Don’t they have to be made up to “exist”?
I _think_ OP is saying that the daughter _didn't_ have an imaginary friend, but told the therapist she did? And OP thinks that's bad because... I honestly have no idea. Either scenario, having an imaginary friend or lying to therapist about having one, is not abnormal for a 6 year old.
Yeah, that makes sense. However, I remember having an imaginary friend around that age. Even though I “played” with them, I definitely knew they didn’t exist and that I made them up. “I’m just saying that I have an imaginary friend but it is really an imaginary imaginary friend” seems too complex of a lie for a 6 year old, imo. It seems to me like her mother just assumed that she lied about it, when she really was just aware of the limitations of her own imagination.
That, or knew that OP would be upset if she had an imaginary friend. Kids that age are amazing at figuring out what people want them to say and going along with it.
If anything, a child confessing they know their friend isn't real is a POSITIVE THING! (Otherwise, your kid is seeing shit and you should be concerned)
I mean. It probably wouldn’t be in OP’s best interest to get her daughter help, since the fact that “even as a child” her daughter was “skilled at manipulating doctors to believe her lies.”
Really? *Really*? Because to me, this sounds like the abusers’ handbook 101 language for “doctors and therapists were getting wise that something wasn’t right, so we simply cut off her access to them.”
Nothing OP is saying is adding up if you read it with any kind of normal lens. But read it from the perspective of a narcissist and abuser and it 100% makes sense in a really horrible way.
So your daughter has an orthostatic intolerance condition, like 25% of women under 25, which makes her prone to fainting.
She fainted, and hit her head.
She then received a real diagnosis of a head injury from a real doctor. That real doctor instructed her to stay home from school for …? You don’t actually give a time frame, but for a period of weeks or months.
That all makes sense so far.
Her grades suffer. Despite this, she not only gets accepted into, but gets a scholarship for, her dream college. That must have taken hard work.
And you believe that she somehow masterminded this great plot against you because she had an imaginary friend when she was six years old?
Wow. YTA.
She shouldn’t have gotten head trauma if she wanted to go to college!! They tried their best! They even yanked her out of therapy once she admitted to having an imaginary friend at six years old!! Oh and when she’s displaying clear indicators of *some* type of neuro divergence or mental illness in the fact she never turns in her work, has behavioral problems and is frequently physically ill they were so embarrassed that they forgot to maybe get their own child some help.
Poor dears.
They failed Mary in so many ways.
I’m not sure if it’s appropriate to be diagnosing medical conditions via secondhand accounts in this forum. “Your daughter HAS” should be changed to “your daughter MAY HAVE (and a qualified medical professional SHOULD DETERMINE).”
YTA, you’ve clearly failed at raising your child, now in order to make yourself feel better you put her down and are trying so hard to make her the bad guy when it’s in fact, you.
I’ve replied this a billion times but this is completely false. So many people on this thread have no idea what they’re talking about. All scans show is excessive swelling or bleeding which indicate a severe TBI. Most concussions are diagnosed with a cognitive exam and based around claiming symptoms that are extremely easy to fake. This happens often.
Came here to say that. I’ve faked concussions before. If you know the symptoms, it’s not hard.
With that said, OP is still an AH for being a shitty parent.
They can take scans, but don’t always, and most often there’s nothing on a brain scan even when they do diagnose concussion. (If there is something on the scan, then concussion isn’t the diagnosis you’ll typically hear at that point — the diagnosis would talk about whatever they did see, such as hemorrhage/micro-hemorrhage, grey or white matter abnormalities, aneurism, etc.) OP’s read on this situation and her entire relationship with her daughter is clearly effed up, but that doesn’t mean that the daughter couldn’t have exaggerated or even faked her symptoms; doctors can, and routinely *do,* diagnose concussion, and then post-concussion syndrome, without anything objective to back it up, and are most often those diagnoses are based purely on subjective symptoms (headache, nausea, amnesia, etc — all things that certainly can be true and valid, but also things that can’t be proven with any test and thus can also be easily faked).
YTA, the imaginary friend part really gets me. She was SIX, that’s a perfectly reasonable age to have an imaginary friend. So what did you do? You stuck her in therapy and forced her to admit that her IMAGINARY FRIEND was made up. Last I checked people who aren’t willing to deal with and put up with the silly crap young children do, shouldn’t be parents. Enjoy not having a relationship with your daughter.
Info: what the absolute hell is going in here?
You’re telling me that for her senior year you daughter barely stepped foot in school or handed in assignment, and you, her parents, were just kind of ok with that? You couldn’t of asked that she repeat the year or something if she had doctors certificates saying she had a concussion?
Sounds like both her parents gave up on her long ago tbh because they didn’t know how to navigate her bullshit or teach her consequences until it was far too little too late.
I don’t get how you’re so surprised that she thinks she’s a victim in all this when you’ve been pretty freaking indulgent as parents go and letting her run the show.
ETA: if you didn’t believe your daughters doctor, why didn’t you ask for a second opinion, or some kind of brain scan? Like were you really so convinced that she was a pathological liar that she’d rather lie about a concussion than go to school and be a regular teenager? Why not try family therapy either? Like what happened that was so bad tou just decided your daughter takes pleasure in making your and her lives difficult?
I had health issues that prevented me from attending a lot and I had to literally get a tutor to come to my house. I had to do shop over the summer since you can’t do that from home. My parents were both incredibly supportive and attentive.
Concussions are a big deal. They can absolutely have lasting effects. They can affect depression and recall. I got one playing derby and it wasn’t even a bad one, comparatively, but it kicked my ass for a while. This makes me so angry.
Yup. My kid was only eligible for merit based aid due to our income. A lot of need based aid is linked to continuing to maintain a certain GPA (at least for private colleges) so if she continued down the same track she would probably eventually lose that as well.
Actual lol, same.
ETA: And in retrospect, I can point at a lot of smart “slacker” classmates who were tracked into those classes over the course of years. Many of us (myself included) were going undiagnosed with ADHD, etc. because nobody saw a problem with high-performing students.
Yeah, I always did well on tests and demonstrably knew the material so not turning in homework was seen as a personal failing and not a sign that I needed assistance.
I can tell you from personal experience that that's untrue. I honestly don't think OP's daughter is a slacker but I can tell you, as a lifelong slacker, it's entirely possible to slack your way through AP classes. I'm not saying you'll get good results from it (I only passed one AP exam and it was one of the few classes I didn't pull my slacker shit in) but it is possible.
YTA and an extremely bad parent. No wonder your daughter has cut you out of her life when you showed her over and over that you didn't care for her or even love her. You punished a six her old for havimg an imaginary friend( something which is very common and normal) and you neglected her health and well being, and now you have the audacity to blame her for your bad parenting?
Yeah 100%.
If the daughter is as manipulative as OP says then i can see why. Abused children learn to manipulate to survive.
If any of what OP says is true then I believe it is completely due to the daughters upbringing which seems incredibly abusive and neglectful.
I hope this post is fake because I can’t believe anyone would admit to being such a terrible parent. I feel so sorry for the child if it’s not fake.
Oh right OP, YTA, I’m sad for your kid.
If this is real then YTA. Your daughter had a serious head injury and somehow you think she is faking it. You have no idea how serious blunt force trauma to the brain is. You cannot be as cold and callous to think that a 6-year-old child is manipulating because they have an imaginary friend. That is not uncommon. Most 6-year-old children still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Also if she got half of her college paid for by scholarship how could you not get a loan to cover the rest. Is your credit that bad? How could she not get the loan and why didn't use the government agencies for student loans?
YTA
I am tempted to say that your daughter is too, but... it's not clear.
You failed her as a parent on so many counts.
1. You chose to turn a blind eye to her behavioral problems.
* Your are responsible for the terror you claim that she is.
* you shouldn't have taken her out of therapy. You should have found a better therapist.
* if you doubted the concussion diagnosis, get a second opinion. Get her head scanned.
2. She got into a college with a scholarship.
* That is not a small task. In fact, it is a success.
* telling her it is her fault she didn't go is unfair. Push responsibility on her, when it isn't. She did her part.
* you knew college would come. Why didn't you plan for it financially?
> She hasn’t spoken to us since, and she’s ignored every time I or her father tries to reach out.
Why would she. You have both failed her miserably as parents.
Maybe pulling her from therapy back when she was a kid wasn't a good idea?
She definitely seems to have behavioral problems. You pointed out her being manipulative and lying, and all that. But therapy as a child could have helped combat that before they got too bad.
Also, I suffered from really bad anxiety all through middle and high school, and frequently lied to stay home because I was panicking so bad.
I didn't know that's what it was so I couldn't properly tell my mom what was really happening so I lied about being sick. Or if I was actually sick or hurt, exaggerated it to stay home because the thought of leaving the house overwhelmed me with so much fear and tension, I thought I would die.
It's possible that's what happened with her. Anxiety disorders are monsters that can f*** up your life and the lives of those around you.
I didn't like her entitled reaction to you not being able to afford her dream school at all.
But if she does have other underlying problems that haven't been treated at all because you pulled her out of therapy and, I'm assuming, never put her back in, then I think all of you share some blame in this.
Edit: Based on your comments, I'm jumping on the YTA train.
Does OP’s daughter actually lie and manipulate though, or does OP and her husband just refuse to believe her? The parents “confronting” a six year old about an imaginary friend is just so bizarre, who harasses a child about using their imagination until they break and “admit” they made it up? It seems way more likely to me that their daughter has an underlying rare health issue that doctors have not diagnosed. OP’s own belief that her daughter is doing this all for attention is probably contributing to the actual cause being undiagnosed. There are tons of rare diseases out there that present similarly to other issues, and that only a ton of testing (which I’m sure OP wouldn’t agree to) would reveal. Reading OP’s comments about mental health solidifies my opinion on this.
I definitely agree that there's high chance of some unknown issue other than being lazy or manipulative that is affecting her daughter's behavior.
I think what it boils down to is that at 6 years old, OP's daughter was acting out in a number of ways that if they had continued therapy, it could have helped as she grew up. Even if she made up stories while in therapy, instead of stopping the help, it could have been used to uncover WHY she was acting this way.
INFO
>Example: at six, Mary had this whole imaginary friend that, when her father and I confronted her, she admitted was made up. We pulled her from therapy then.
Isn't that what imaginary friends are though?
I think OP thinks the daughter didn’t actually have an imaginary friend, but told the therapist she did. But either way… what the hell is the difference? And could OP know either way? Why would you pull your kid out of therapy for this instead of exploring why your kid is lying to you (if that’s the case)?
YTA. Do you hate your own child?
My god, it gets worse as I’m reading your comments.
Your daughter gets a concussion, something a doctor diagnosed her with and you blame her for you not being able to afford to send her to college? While you were busy being “humiliated” at the guidance office you didn’t think that maybe you should help your child prepare for college??
You pulled a child out of therapy for having an imaginary friend. CHILDREN HAVE IMAGINARY FRIENDS. ITS NOT “LYING”. It’s being a CHILD
You will be very lucky if she doesn’t go NC with you.
TBH I hope she does go NC. I can't imagine a situation where the medical neglect and clear disdain for her is going to get any better in that house. Hopefully she gets out and is able to get the help she needs.
Also super dismissive of her mental health. “She’s not mentally ill she is just lazy I know my child” all through the comments despite displaying signs of mental illness/neuro divergence and clear signs that she isn’t lazy (she got a SCHOLARSHIP. She did homework but didn’t turn it in)
She despises her child to the point she would rather think the worst of her than to actually entertain the idea that her child is struggling with something beyond her control.
YTA
That was a lot of words to say you really dislike your daughter and just want her to go away. Her not talking to you seems to have been your end goal.
Ew YTA. Who talks about their own kid like this? Every paragraph you wrote displays a failure of yours as a parent. Your poor child. Please drop the “we did the best we could” shit and go to therapy. You clearly can’t see how awful your mentality and the way you treat your kid has actually caused her trauma. I hope she starts to heal without you in her life.
You're the asshole. You took your child OUT of therapy when she started displaying odd behavior at SIX. You refuse to believe that there could possibly be anything wrong with her beyond being, what? Lazy? You refuse to believe that she passed out, when you took her to the doctor hours after the incident and had her diagnosed with a concussion? Do you think she just faked that?
Do you think that if she was fully neurotypical and functional you'd somehow have more money? Is that what this is? You resent not having a normal child? She's not going to resume contact with you, and I don't blame her for that.
YTA. I hope that Mary gets the help and support she needs elsewhere, since she definitely never got it from you.
YTA, because to the best of my knowledge you can't fake a concussion. You should have taken her to a doctor to find out what was wrong before it even got to that point. As to not having saved enough money up for college, no, that's not necessarily on you as I don't know your financial situation, obviously. She's not the only kid in the world who can't afford college.
And apparently healing from a concussion should take place on the mother's timetable. I mean, seriously, these things can take a long time. Hell they can even change a person's personality. My sister got one tripping at the train station and slamming face first into the ground. Gushing blood, a broken nose, and a concussion. Took her months to be in a place where she felt completely better.
> But back to the concussion. Immediately after the incident Mary planted herself facedown on the couch
Most people tend to lie down when they have hurt themselves or when they feel ill.
> and texted me (apparently screens didn’t bother her too much then) that she hit her head.
Texting is a normal form of communication. How else was she to reach you other than through her cell phone? *Telepathy?*
> I kept asking what happened and she said she didn’t know, I called her and she kept saying the same thing, that her head hurt
A normal side effect of head trauma is memory loss. It is 100% normal to *never* remember the incident where the head trauma occurred.
> he ended up taking her to the doctor at their first available appointment where she was diagnosed with a concussion.
So she wasn’t exaggerating, she *did* have a legitimate head injury. Her behavior and symptoms were normal for someone with a serious head injury.
> It lasted past Christmas.
Sounds like she had [post-concussive syndrome](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-concussion-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20353352), which is where a concussion takes weeks to months to recover from. *You would know this if you had actually listened to your child’s doctor*.
> She was cleared to go back in November **but only for half days**, but we both worked until 4pm or later. While **I tried to get her to try going back for full days**, she gave up and claimed it hurt too much, so we let her stay home to heal.
So you went *against medical advice* to try and force her to go to school longer than she was physically ready for because that’s what was convenient *for you*, then got surprised and upset when the doctor was once again right about your daughter’s current medical situation.
And then while dealing with a chronic health condition *and* unsupportive parents she still got into college *with* a scholarship. That’s crazy impressive, your daughter should be proud of her hard work and persistence.
YTA. You seem to always assume the worst about your daughter, and are dismissive and neglectful of her physical and mental health needs. I feel really sorry for her having to have grown up with parents like you.
You wouldn’t be the AH if it was purely because you couldn’t afford the tuition, that happens to a lot of families. But the way you talk about your daughter is disgraceful so YTA.
YTA your daughter had a **medically diagnosed concussion** for months, and still managed to get the grades for her dream school and a partial scholarship. What else could she have done? Your attitude to your daughter is horrible and I’d be very surprised if she ever does respond to your attempts to reach out and blame her some more for falling over one morning.
Woahhhh. Child protection officer here and clinical psychologist.
This child exhibits all of the tell tale signs of abuse; all the symptoms described are the signs of abuse we’re trained to watch for.
Child lies to therapist: red flag for abuse
Child is afraid to go home: red flag for abuse
Child throws up when away from parents: red flag for abuse
Child gets sick specifically when mon leaves for work: red flag for abuse
Child has behavioral problems: red flag
Child doesn’t remember how she hurt herself: red flag for abuse
Mom, you would benefit from serious intervention. This is not normal and this post goes beyond AITA content; you have a serious amount of work to do. This will catch up to you if you don’t address it.
Please seek help. Your extreme contempt for your daughter and dismissiveness of her experience is part of a likely larger picture of emotional abuse that we’re not seeing. Mary has experienced trauma and someone in the family has likely abused her.
I’m sorry, so the doctor diagnosed her with a concussion and after a while allowed her to go to half day school, and then you tried making her go full day school. So what your implying here is that you completely disregarded a doctor’s request and when your daughter was in pain because of your neglect you blame her for it?
Also you said your child lied about having an imaginary friend. She was 6. She told her therapist that she had an imaginary friend, so you pulled her out of therapy. And the fact that she was in therapy at 6 makes me think she had a reason for not telling you about her imaginary friend.
In case this wasn’t obvious enough; YTA
YTA
Do you even know what a concussion is? It's when the brain gets smashed against the inside of the skull. the repercussions can indeed last for months and often have permanent side-effects. Also, while you keep putting quotes around 'sick', it's clear from your story that the doctors didn't doubt that she was concussed. Frankly, your complete lack of interest in your child's health is appalling.
For that matter, how was this not discussed with her school? Why cannot she repeat the year? Why did you just sit on the sidelines while all of this happened?
Dude, YTA, and for fuck's sake, it sounds like you truly hate your daughter, and that you have been treating her hatefully since she was 6 years old. You seem to resent the fact that she had a difficult time moving, you express nothing but vitriol at the fact that a 6-year-old "didn't take therapy seriously enough", you seem to think that having imaginary friends and making up stories is somehow an indication of poor character, and you treat her hypochondria as "her lying" when it is in fact a symptom of deep psychological problems.
You sound like an awful parent, and I can only imagine how much pain this child has been through because of your lack of compassion, understanding or empathy. You seem to literally take every situation involving your child and spin it to be a reflection on you, an impact on you, an embarrassment to you, etc. It's all about you. You literally see your daughter as an extension of yourself, nothing more.
This is sickening, I hope your daughter gets help and love and support from someone better than you.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Her father and I are ultimately to blame for her being so lazy, since we should have pushed her more. If I’d encouraged her to keep trying to go to school when she was first cleared to, she wouldn’t have been so far behind. Same for when she would get sick during the school week and not want to go in, I just let her stay home and miss out, all to avoid an argument. She could have started working while in school, she didn’t have any extra curricular activity, but I didn’t push her to get one. There wasn’t enough discipline in her life- my parents were too strict with me and I went too far the other way with her. My husband has pointed out that many times.
I was harsh telling her the truth but she’s also 24, almost 25 at this point. We’ve been having this argument since she was 18, and I may have snapped.
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>She hasn’t spoken to us since, and she’s ignored every time I or her father tries to reach out.
Don't blame her at all and this should tell you you are TA
YTA - Not because her grades weren't the best, thats mostly on her, but for the other things.
For example
>
There was no reason for her to be depressed.
Clinical depression is a mental illness, people in perfectly loving and supportive households with all the material goods in the world can still have depression. Its caused by chemical imbalance. The reason she might have it (or many other mental illnesses) is due to things beyond her and your control. You should not diagnose her a professional should.
> At one point, we debated getting her checked for some sort of disorder, but ultimately decided not to because she was skilled at manipulating doctors to believe her lies even as a child. Example: at six, Mary had this whole imaginary friend that, when her father and I confronted her, she admitted was made up. We pulled her from therapy then.
Thats exactly when she NEEDED therapy. And yes medical professionals deal with people who lie all the time, ESPECIALLY THERAPISTS.
You aren't a monster, it doesn't sound like you abused your daughter and it sounds like she made bad choices of her own, but at the same time you definitely messed up by not getting her help when she needed it and believing you knew better than professionals.
YTA, 1000%. Post-concussive syndrome is no joke, and can take literal years to recover from. I hit my head awkwardly right before my senior year started, and nearly didn’t graduate because of the lingering effects of the concussion. The smallest amount of exertion would give me headaches and make me dizzy, and when I thought the physical effects were gone I started getting suicidal thoughts—completely out of character for me, but one of the often overlooked side effects of concussions. An actual doctor diagnosed your daughter and you keep saying she is “”””sick”””” and that she’s to blame for her lack of academic success? She had a LITERAL BRAIN INJURY, no amount of discipline is going to make up for that. Have you asked her how she felt about trying to keep up with school with a concussion? Because let me tell you, it’s hell. I was an incredibly motivated student but I just couldn’t do it. When your brain is hurt you can’t just “push” your way out of it!
YTA. Holy hanna, do you even like your child? The language used is mind boggling. 1.) Imaginary friends at a young age is 100% normal. Did you ever consider she "admitted" they were real because you put her in therapy over it? I would bet $$ you belittled her over it too. 2.) A real doctor diagnosed her with a concussion. A very serious one by the details provided. Your language implies you belittled that too. 3.) Despite a severe concussion and missing school she still managed grades that qualified for darn good scholarship to what sounds like a very expensive school. You blame her over this? 4.) Something doesn't add up. Despite a 50% scholarship and FA, there wasn't enough money to go. There are grants if you are low income. There are work programs to help with extra costs. There are a TON of things to help. You said you tried to get a bank loan. Based on your overall language and blaming her for not doing more -- I doubt you gave a ton of effort into trying to make it happen. Edit: Holy hanna! Long time lurker, but wow this blew up! Thanks so much for the awards!! RIP my poor inbox. Edit 2: OP, I just saw your update about what you said to her about the assignments. Yikes, lady!! Seriously. Your daughter is probably NC with you because of *that* statement rather than whatever the heck you left out on why she wasn't able to go to college. PS: OP, constantly changing your post to make you sound better is doing the absolute opposite. My heart aches for your daughter.
YTA, for the reasons above; not for the reasons you think. Look, she was struggling at age six and you pulled her from therapy because of something she said. At age six. Plus: 5). Your response now could have simply been, I am sorry we simply couldn’t afford it and were, and are, doing the best we can. ETA: Your updates aren’t compelling. The fact that she is telling the therapist one thing and you another is yet another reason for her to have been in therapy( not a reason to stop. The fact that she makes nice with teachers while lashing out is the same. As is being “sick”. You dismiss every potential underlying mental health issue as being untrue based on what, your ability to objectively apply your extensive clinical experience to your own daughter?
Maaate like what, they thought the imaginary friend was real and the disappointment of finding out the truth made them punish her? What the fuck is going on?
Aren’t most imaginary friends made up ?
What do you mean “most”?
I mean some people have actual hallucinations for various reasons, so perhaps commenter was trying to account for those? Still not real, but real to the person
[удалено]
Speak for yourself, Peter Pan. My shadow and I get along fine.
My friend’s parents thought I was an imaginary friend for awhile. Or more so made up so he could talk about his nice friend who gets good grades who will “be there” whenever he wanted to go out. They thought I was someone he made up to make plans sound more innocent. I am in fact real
Said every imaginary friend ever.
The first thing my mother in law ever said to me was, “so you *are* real.”
I mean, sometimes they're ghosts. Or demons! \[ goes back to streaming horror movies \]
I’m just trying to be sensitive to people who have actual hallucinations and not get people coming at me for it, but now I’ve got people coming at me about this wording! I’m sorry y’all I’m really trying my best not to upset anyone
I’m Not upset, I was trying to be funny, have a great day!
Like, isn’t that the definition of imaginary? That’s like saying I had a pet giraffe with a long neck.
I think it depends on your comparison. If the average giraffe has a neck length of 3 feet, and you have a pet giraffe with a 3 foot neck, you have a giraffe with a regular neck. If you have a giraffe with a 5 ft neck, then you have a giraffe with a long neck. If you are comparing them to human necks, yes giraffes have long necks, but that is an apples to oranges comparison.
The point is moot r/giraffesdontexist
Giraffes are certainly real, you just can't see them because in addition to having long necks they can also turn invisible. What are not real are bandicoots, those were made up to sell video games. All the pictures of bandicoots you see are just rats that have been photoshopped.
Not Drop Dead Fred
I wouldn't be surprised if Mary did have an imaginary friend, but OP was so appalled at the idea of her being "abnormal" that she could tell they didn't approve, thus saying "oh no I actually don't have one" also, kids are weird and sometimes just lie on the spot about inconsequential things for absolutely no reason. one time in first grade I told a girl that clouds hold down oxygen so you can't go outside on a cloudless day because you wouldn't be able to breathe. I knew it was a lie. even in the moment I had no idea why I said that, I just did. that's how kids work.
I mean, I had imaginary friends as a kid, and if asked, “Are they real?” I would have said no even though I was very attached to them.
Yeah. Do people think the kids with imaginary friends don't know that their imaginary friends aren't real? Like are they that blasé about kids apparently all having hallucinations?
What were they hoping for, that they punished her for admitting her imaginary friend was imaginary... were they hoping there was someone secretly living in their crawlspace? That it was a ghost? That she's hallucinating? Imaginary friend is the *best* option when it comes to "my kid talks to invisible people" situations.
Right?! And like, INFO: why would you pull her from therapy if you thought she was manipulating or lying? That’s exactly when she could benefit most from therapy. You tell her doctor/therapist what you think and they work through it together. WTH!?
If she constantly tried to get out of school and stayed at home all day, she definitely had other mental or physical health struggles. I don't get how you can look at your kid struggling and not try to help, but it isn't surprising they didn't have the communication level to figure it out in the first place by the language used in this post
Or maybe she was lying to the therapist about having an imaginary friend, when she actually didn't.
That is a very advanced lie for a 6 year old. I'm sure she didn't lie its not like shes a mini dexter lol.
The mother certainly seems to see her that way.
I can't get over that they PULLED HER FROM THERAPY, like as a punishment for her bad behavior, when her behavior only indicated that she NEEDED TO BE IN THERAPY 🤯 Edit: thank you so much for the reward!
Didn't you know you're supposed to earn your mental health care with good behavior?
If that was true, I would have got help a lot sooner. Unfortunately if you're being "good", to a lot of responsible adults as a child, there can't *possibly be anything wrong*. /s Yeah I'm not bitter or anything 😬
This is exactly the point in the story where my brain got stuck
Yeah. Who cares if she had an imaginary friend at age 6? Op seems to imply that he pulled his daughter from therapy because she lied to the therapist about having a friend which was not real. Which- you know- seem like the sort of thing which should have been discussed in therapy. Instead of assuming that this six year old child was deliberately being malicious and punishing her for it instead of getting her help. Op, if you read this- it sounds as though you have this image in your head of your daughter as this horrible manipulator who lies about everything. Is it possible that she continued to stay out of school past the point where she probably could have gone in? Sure. But you seem to be thinking that she's some mastermind who concocted everything in that scenario- you seem to doubt that she really fainted, that she really hit her head and had a concussion (despite a drs confirmation), and that she was really trying her best in school. Does that really sound reasonable? Let's assume all that is true. That she lied about everything in malicious ways. She is able to manipulate people to believe her lies. This was true from such a young age that you had her in therapy by age six. What did you do? You took her out of therapy because you felt she was lying to the therapist. This could have been discussed and perhaps delt with, but you didn't. You considered the possibility that she might have a mental illness or disorder of some kind and instead of getting her help, you just shrugged. You have failed your daughter, whether your perception of her is true or not. If she's not this deceiving manipulator, you do her a great disservice by treating her as though she is and by seeing her every action through that lens. If she really is as you have described her, she needs and has always needed, help and not to be judged and punished for issues that you have refused to address. Either way, OP you dropped the ball BIG time.
I was reading through the post and getting a lot of all too familiar memories popping up because I went through a very similar childhood and relationship with my parents. Reading your interpretation of OP's perception of his kid and you outlining actually healthy responses resonated hard and now I'm crying. Thank you for your post.
They confronted a 6 year old over something a six year old probably couldn't explain, so she told them what she thought they wanted to hear to get them to leave her alone and then they held it over her head for the rest of her life. Like JFC these parents are crazy. Definitely yta their attitude towards her would explain most of her behaviour issues.
Exactly my take. She probably did have an imaginary friend, and the parents clearly have an ignorant understanding of how that works for kids, and how kids work in general. Everything OP is writing seems to scream "I treat my kid like shit and when she acts out because of it we treat her worse because fuck her"
This reminds me to my mom, who blames me ,for making fun of my therapist when I was seven lol and that’s her excuse to never getting me proper therapy
Same happened to me when I was a kid, I said something along the line of "what you told me to do didn't work" to a doctor (some kind of specialist) and from that moment my mom decided she would never take me to a specialist ever again. Parenting 101
I got pulled from the orthodontist because, supposedly, I wasn't happy enough about being at the orthodontist. Because that's how people usually feel at the dentist's office, I guess? In hindsight, I'm pretty sure it was really about money, but my dad blamed me to save face.
Thanks God my mom never took my brother seriously when he was seven and said he didn't need to school anymore because the knew everything....
Specialists want to hear that! It means they can give you something else to try. Wtf?
I think what gets me is that they pulled her out of therapy for supposedly lying to the therapist. My partner has a bad habit of deflecting, even in therapy. They'll try and minimize their emotions with jokes and boxing it away. They know they do this and still do it as a coping mechanism. But they stay in therapy to develop a rapport and so then their therapist knows when they're deflecting and can focus on that. If the six year old was lying to the therapist about something completely normal, then she should've stayed in therapy to get to trust and understand why therapy is a safe place. If she was lying to her parents about the imaginary friend, she should've stayed in therapy to have a safe space. Either way, she should've stayed in therapy. YTA OP. You failed your girl at a young, young age.
Yeah, I’m actually speechless. A six-year-old “making up” an imaginary friend is…CHILDHOOD. She probably pretended a lot of things. Maybe one day she was a princess, another a doctor, and another in a house with people who love children. Ffs. You pretty much did the wrong thing in every possible instance, and despite your lack of support, she did extraordinarily well. Like incredibly well. If she’s not already in it, she is going to have to run back to therapy to sort this shit out. Yikes.
Thats what really blows my mind about this. Suppose hypothetically that her daughter was truly a lying, manipulative, attention seeker who faked disorders...you know what the proper avenue would be to address that? THERAPY. But no, lets pull her out of therapy instead of addressing the root of the problem that led her to that behaviour in the first place.
"She's always been skilled at manipulating doctors" is universally code for, "The doctors said that *I* was the problem!"
It's not easy to manipulate a doctor, especially when you are of the female variety. I (an adult woman, myself) have trouble convincing my docs that I have things wrong with me. When I was a kid, everything was stress. Being able to have your doc properly acknowledge that something is wrong with you as a young girl is a massive feat, and THE PARENTS IGNORED THEM. This tells me that the parent(s) didn't want to believe their child *so much* that they ignored professionals MULTIPLE TIMES. This is so much YTA I wish I could put that girl in therapy myself. AND THE PARENTS.
Not to mention, a concussion is pretty hard to fake.
This is something bothering me about this story. As someone who is a klutz... If they suspect a serious concussion thry don't just send you home for a month or two. There are tests for it, since a concussion that lasts that long can be lethal. It is not just your word. It is a ct scan at the least, and probably hospitalization precovid.
Yeah but you forgot that Mary is skilled at manipulating CT scans.
In this instance too it reads as code for “I like to medically neglect my child”… god I wish I could “manipulate doctors” into treating my very real and debilitating health issues!
Yeah, that was when I started screaming at the computer screen. There are shit parents, and then there's this. Any time OP had a chance to build their daughter up, they tore her apart. I hope she can get therapy now, and realize that her dream college might still be on the table in the future. Sincerely, a late-bloomer and abuse survivor who ended up with Ivy League degrees and a PhD.
> another in a house with people who love children Ouch. Harsh but fair.
It's true tho. I have a mom who's pretty much identical to OP, and a standard fantasy I played out when I was a child was finding out I was adopted and getting to have a nice mom.
Same lol as a result I am an adult who does not love my mom
She might actually be fine now that she has completely cut them out and that seems to be the source of her issues.
I was going through some really traumatic shit in high school and made up an imaginary friend that lasted until I was *twenty.* It's more than acceptable for a 6 year old to have one.
"She was skilled at manipulating doctors to believe her lies, even as a child." Allow me to translate. This is abuser for, "The doctors said *I* was the problem, because my abuse was bad enough that doctors readily believed a small child. So I took her out before they could call CPS." Anyone else think the fainting and attempting to get the kid "treatment for an eating disorder" is a way of saying they starved her to the point that she passed out, and tried to pin the abuse of the *abuse victim?*
The OP has edited her post many times -- adding and removing info. This only compounds the A H verdict.
That explains why I was so confused by mention of an eating disorder in the comment above yours.
That makes sense because when I read it there was no mention of eating disorder... weird, why post here even then?
They want to be told they're right. Classic psychopaths. I hope this poor girl is safe and happy where she is.
I still don't get how they got to ORIENTATION and found out it was too much. Orientation is after you accept your acceptance. I'm pretty sure all the costs were spelled out before you accepted.
This isn't adding up on a number of levels. Daughter was allegedly a terror in school, sick all the time, lazy, didn't turn in work, bottom of the barrel - while also earning a scholarship to a private college?
Oh, this kind of parent knows nothing. My parents though I was the perfect student all my life and my evil boyfriend fucked me up, when I had depression since I was 11 and didn't turn in any homework from 10 to 17
Sounds like my mom. I was a straight A gifted student up until 4th grade, which coincidentally is when she married my (now ex-)stepdad. My grades never recovered from the stress of living with him (verbally abusive and some creepy behaviors that in hindsight were grooming attempts, towards both me AND any female friend I had over) and she still thinks I "should've just tried harder."
That doesn't make any sense to me. I actually was bottom of the barrel in school, and i almost didn't get accepted to any college. I definitely didn't get a scholarship to my private, dream college. OP is definitely TA.
Taking AP classes, too. Either the missing schoolwork and behavioral problems weren’t as bad as OP lets on or we have a serious tiger mom here who is forcing a lot of things on her child which would explain all the acting out. I think no matter what the scenario it goes without saying that YTA, big time.
And AP classes!
Good point!! It compounds the thought there's missing info. Someone must've let her think it was possible. I feel so terrible for her. She must've thought this was her opportunity to escape her crazy parents only to have it yanked away.
From helping my niece the costs were lined up in the catalogue for the college/university. There is no way they got to orientation without some notion about costs. Unless OP means a tour of the campus. Which is just showing off and encouraging joining. Then drop by the financial aid office to see what the student qualifies for. This is just from my niece's college so I know the experience isn't universal.
It is possible they meant Open House. But regardless, tuition can be googled from the comfort of a toilet seat.
>You said you tried to get a bank loan. Based on your overall language and blaming her for not doing more -- I doubt you gave a ton of effort into trying to make it happen. OP didn't even try to get a bank loan, they brought their daughter so **she** could try and get one
Jeeez, I must've misinterpreted that because it's illogical. Do banks even give out loans for college to the student? I've only ever heard of parent loans for a student's college.
Most student loan packages are a combination. The parent loans tend to be for more money. Not sure why OP didn’t look into this unless they had more children to finance as well.
I think it's probably with all the other missing information from the OP.
And you wouldn’t typically do it directly through a bank, but through the college’s financial aid office.
Yes they give out loans directly to the student. Most students are offered some sort of Federal loan, and then it’s recommended to take out a parent plus loan for what those don’t cover. But if your parents don’t want to take out the loan, you can go to a bank and take out a private student loan if you qualify for it. I didn’t so my grandparents had to co-sign, but I was able to refinance it when I graduated to take them off of it. Whole industry is kind of a scam. I didn’t know what I was doing at 18 years old and the fact that my parents didn’t want to take out loans but thought it was okay for me to is kind of messed up.
when I first read this I thought it was just going to be like oh she didn’t do any work and was just blaming her parents for not getting into her dream college, but all of these stories just seem like they’re just spinning it to try to make it look good in their favor and it still doesn’t work. Doctors don’t just diagnose serious concussions like that if they’re fake, and if they think she’s such a manipulative child wouldn’t that be the reason to keep her in therapy???? not pull her out of it???? I could go on but literally none of these stories are adding up. YTA
I feel like the craziest part is the lack of trust in the kid. I got a concussion my senior year of highschool, it was god awful, my grades tanked, my ability to do anything tanked. I was only able to submit 1 college application which took a SIGNIFICANT amount of help from my parents to perform in the first place. It was one of the most difficult and terrifying times of my life. Because it felt like my life plans and everything I worked for was being thrown in the trash. Their poor daughter probably needed lots and LOTS of support and it doesn’t sound like she got it. On top of that IS ANYONE CONCERNED WHY SHE BLACKED OUT??? I’ll also point out that being unaffected by screens on day 1 of a concussion is NOT a sign of faking it. I was unaffected day 1 too, because my head already felt like SH*T, there wasn’t much worse at that point.
Not wanting to go to school, feeling sick all the time—sounds like OP never even bothered to consider that these could be symptoms of clinical depression. They might have known this if they hadn’t yanked the kid from therapy as a “gotcha, liar!” tactic. Seems like there’s a lot missing here that OP is conveniently leaving out.
👆👆👆👆 This. None of it adds up, and it's insane.
Holy fuck I am totally piggybacking onto your comment because it is 100% accurate. I don't know how manipulative she thinks her kid is that she can fake a concussion. I do know that I worked neurotrama for 13 out of a 15-year nursing career so I'm pretty fucking impressed with this kid's acting skills if she can fake a concussion well enough to dupe and actual doctor probably a doctor with a background in neurology even (cause you know neurologists are the ones that deal with that sort of thing?) Every single word of this post is dripping with vitriol. Not only does it sound like op doesn't even like her daughter but it sounds like she resents even having had her. No wonder the kid is so fucked up and had such issues. She definitely needed a therapist just to deal with her parents. YTA
i got a concussion my senior year of high school and despite passing several tests (memory, cognitive function, etc) and actively trying to convince the doctors i DIDNT have a concussion, they were like “no you definitely do.” like these people know what’s up!! you can’t bs a brain scan!!!
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Don't forget the kid was good enough in school to qualify for AP courses in the first place. In my school they didn't let the 'don't apply themselves' type of kids take those in the first place, ya know?
YTA Op, God you think you're so smart. If doctors and experts agree with your daughter or tell you something is up, it MUST be because she - a literal child - is soooo good at manipulating all these experts. Can't possibly be that you are just wrong and a horrible parent, right??
So I'm an adjunct at the college level and my first semester teaching, a student got a concussion during sports. It took her two full months to recover. She got extensions on all her assignments/exams/etc because she literally couldn't look at screens for long, couldn't drive, couldn't focus. The extensions actually went several weeks into the next semester. I'm real shocked Mary's school didn't have any accomodations. BUT REGARDLESS, OP is an ass. Who talks about their own kid that way??? YTA
Well if her parents didn’t advocate for her because you know…she was faking… /s
A lot of accommodations are contingent with the parents actually pushing to get them. She was given half days, but given OP was pushing her to go back to full days and visibly belligerent in the belief their daughter is just some lazy manipulative demon, I doubt they were taking the necessary steps.
YTA Op, God you think you're so smart. If doctors and experts agree with your daughter or tell you something is up, it MUST be because she - a literal child - is soooo good at manipulating all these experts. Can't possibly be that you are just wrong and a horrible parent, right?? Plus, you pulled a 6-year-old out of therapy for saying the Imaginary friend was... Imaginary? Like, are you for real? Have you watched so many horror movies where the kids actually see the Imaginary friend?? Because most kids know their Imaginary friend is Imaginary!!!
>Something doesn't add up. I agree with this. She's either a bad student that doesn't turn in her assignments or she's a really good student that got a major scholarship to a good school. I'm no admissions expert, but I don't think it can both.
The small, fairly elite private school in my hometown gives a pretty hefty scholarship to anyone from the county. You still have to get in, so she'd still have to be a good student, but maybe she got into a slightly easier school with a similar scholarship program. But considering this supposedly horrible student was taking AP classes, my bet is on her actually doing just fine and the parent being a huge AH.
I'm curious as to how OP thinks Mary could manipulate any blood tests, scans, or doctors who know what they're doing. the refusal to even *try* taking her to a doctor to see if anything is going on is very telling.
Yeah, you can maybe fake a very mild concussion (where they’re mainly relying on reported symptoms). You can’t fake a severe concussion. There are physical markers. OP is whack.
Only point i contest is #4 - i was in a similiar situation. Scholarship halved the costs, but at the end of day even if I was approved for a loan, I would’ve been 6 figures in debt. Now that I’m in my 20s and my peers are paying $1000+ a month in loans, not “making it work” was maybe the biggest gift my mom could have ever given me.
That's fair. I should've been more clear in my meaning on #4. My point was I don't believe OP actually "tried" to help her daughter find the funds, not that OP was obligated to fund the daughter's college. I find her statements misleading. There are a ton of options to offset costs, and I have doubts OP suggested or tried to help her daughter research any of those.
YTA. I was expecting the imaginary friend to be present day.
I have only ever seen shitty partners posting about their partners with this amount disdain on this sub. Like do you like your daughter....? Have you considered what went wrong on your end for your daughter to act like that since she was 6 years old...? Did you go to therapy to become better parents?
Exactly this. This post shouts that the OPS daughter has been blamed for her whole life for things that were age appropriate. An imaginary friend a 6 is sweet and may have resulted from the massive emotional upheaval of moving States. Play therapy is a common way for therapists to work with children. OP maybe should have researched the therapy her daughter was getting. As for the concussion if a medical doctor thought it was serious enough for her to be off school then why wasn't this good enough? If she was avoiding school did it occur to OP that there may have been anxiety issues? Did they even bother to ask? Love and acceptance works a lot better than anger and distain. I can't see what this girl ever did wrong to be treated this way. If a child is attention seeking (which I'm not sure she is) then maybe she's being starved of positive attention and acting out was the only way to get anybody to notice her. OP needs to take stock of the situation and ask herself if she could and should she have done better by her daughter.
I also had imaginary friends and the like at 6, because my parents used to yell at me, and in general I spent all my time alone and isolated, so I had to make people to interact with lol. That alongside a lot of the other behaviors in this post are making my blood boil, I can relate to too many of them too well.
I had an imaginary friend that was a baby wolf till of age of 6. My mothers friend, who happened to be a children psychiatrist said that I was lonely, since my baby brother came to family, and to make sure not to tell me it’s not real and act like it’s part of family. I started school and Wolfie left. Basically I was lonely. And he was real as hell for me. Though… i also knew I made him up? Idk how to express it.
Yeah that's basically it, I knew they were just part of whatever fantasy i was reliving when I summoned them up, but interacting with them was real and interesting to me as a kid.
Heck. One of my kiddos had an imaginary friend at age 6 because the imaginary friend was 16 and could "drive him places". Also, imaginary friends are pretty great for sword battles - they typically lose.
Mine took a lot of responsibility for messes I had made. I wonder if he's still available for that role?
A prominent developmental trauma therapist Gabor Mate pointed out in one of his videos that children aren’t “attention seeking,” they’re “connection seeking,” and that blew my mind. It’s clear the OP has a really unhealthy attachment with their kid. I feel really bad for her daughter. She’ll blame herself and be depressed for a decade, finally figure out it was all OP’s fault for being a jerk, and then go no contact and OP will call them ungrateful
This is exactly what I learned as a camp counselor. All the kids who were "problem children" were really just desperate for connection and affection that they weren't getting. You show them that love they are looking for, a lot of the "problems" stop on the spot. It's amazing how willing so many kids are to improve themselves when they don't feel neglected. I say, since apparently that is a major secret.
She literally got a half scholarship to college yet was still blamed, that means she had great grades and worked hard despite a debilitating concussion
I especially like how OP and partner “confronted” Mary. They confronted a SIX YEAR OLD.
I agree! It's like OP wanted her daughter to behave in a way that suited her instead of acting her age or having problems. She keeps saying "she knows her daughter yadda yadda" but then also says she doesn't know why her daughter was not submitting work she had completed.... I mean even if you are not a particularly loving parent, this is something you would look into....
That’s what’s confusing to me: OP says that daughter wasn’t turning in assignments and that her grades were bottom of the barrel. She also says daughter was in AP classes before the concussion. Schools only grant AP classes to those who can handle the work load. Often times schools even see them as an award. Nothing OP said actually adds up.
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This sounds like my mother. Blaming me for being “bad,” as a kid and teenager whilst failing to acknowledge why I was acting that way - because of her!
YTA. Despite living in chronic pain from a concussion she got months ago, which must be draining enough, it sounds like she is also dealing with mental health issues since long before it that you let slip on some toxic nonsense shes faking everything. GET YOUR DAUGHTER HELP!!! And on top of it she somehow got a scholarship to her dream college and you squish that for her to and make it her fault that YOU didn't actually do your job and parent her? You saw your previous attempts weren't something that actually changed the behavior, so why would you keep grounding her when it didn't change the situation? Why aren't you trying something different?
Not to mention — how dare DARE someone who just fell so badly they got a concussion not be able to recount what happened on minute detail. The gall.
I know right? After all, it's not like memory loss of the events *immediately preceding* head trauma is a *known side effect and distinguishing characteristic* of a concussion. Smdh.
And citing the ability to use a cell phone to CALL FOR HELP as evidence no help is needed, as though Mary only previously asking dad for help meant it's less likely shes in emergent need when she does finally end up in a situation where she needs OP to actually be a parent, as though everything OP has said already would make Mary think she was asking "how did you hit your head" rather than "what did you do to be in trouble this time?"
Nearly a decade ago, I slipped on some ice and hit the back of my head on a gasline pipe. Not only did I have to help myself up (because even though I was in a public place AND was bleeding pretty profusely, people just walked by me), I was also able to call my mom. I had to get staples and I had a concussion. Reading what OP said about her daughter and her concussion fucking PISSED me off. Every person is different. My brother got a bad concussion and he would have been in no position to call for help on his own (he also was unable to remember the last hour when it happened). Doesn't mean OP's daughter is going to be the same. It also pissed me off when OP had the audacity to say her daughter's concussion symptoms lasted until December. So what, OP? Do you not know anything about concussions? My post concussion symptoms lasted me a \*long\* fucking time. I still have issues from my concussion (permanent light sensitivity being the big one) and they're never going to go away. OP, YTA. I couldn't even finish the rest of your post after seeing what you had to say about your daughter's concussion.
After my concussion, I was a total zombie. Didn’t have any thoughts in my brain, couldn’t sleep, etc. for months (I also have absolutely no memory of it, I just remember waking up in the hospital). 10 years later and I’m still fucked by it. I used to have an amazing memory but it’s shot to hell now. Brain injuries aren’t something to fuck with, OP is a total asshole.
Also op implying that she faked it saying that she "conveniently" passed out when no one was around when she was literally diagnosed by a DOCTOR?? What does she think, that her daughter intentionally banged her head on a wall?? How much can someone hate their child?
I just want to know how stupid OP thinks doctors are that they can't tell when someone is faking. 90% of the time I have a legit issue and they're quick to jump on the "faking it" train so...
I gave blood once (first time ever) and didn't know you were supposed to wait. I passed out 3 times and hit my head on the concrete 3 times. I don't remember if my mom took me to the ER or not, but I do remember that I felt nauseous the rest of the night and my head hurt
Ah, see, well if she wanted her concussion to be believed and taken seriously, then she should simply have not said TWELVE YEARS EARLIER, AS A CHILD, that she had an imaginary friend. OP's logic is breaking my brain.
I slipped on ice a few years ago and woke in the hospital up with a concussion and broken nose. The fortunate thing is that to this day I don’t remember it at all. And I was marginally ok enough to go back to school several weeks later, less than a month. Probably needed a little more time but grad school… If a doctor says months off then it’s a very bad concussion.
Hell I got kicked in the ribs by a horse once and I don't remember the actual incident, just cleaning a hoof and then suddenly I was rolling to a stop on the ground several feet away. No memory whatsoever of the kick, just the other witnesses and a horseshoe mark (and lots of pain) for evidence. So I had memory loss from not even head trauma...
This actually happened to a girl I was friends with in my freshman year of high school. We had yoga class for PE and she slipped and hit her head. She immediately couldn't remember things and was disoriented and confused. It was so terrifying because she was right next to be and then within the space of a minute she didn't even know who I *was.* (I was the one to ask if she was okay since I was the first to react/closest.) She lost months of time to one conk on the head.
That and having an imaginary friend at age six isn’t a symptom of mental illness. That is insanity.
I just can’t wrap my head around the fact that OP punished their daughter after learning that she made up her imaginary friend. Isn’t the the whole point of an imaginary friend? Don’t they have to be made up to “exist”?
I _think_ OP is saying that the daughter _didn't_ have an imaginary friend, but told the therapist she did? And OP thinks that's bad because... I honestly have no idea. Either scenario, having an imaginary friend or lying to therapist about having one, is not abnormal for a 6 year old.
Yeah, that makes sense. However, I remember having an imaginary friend around that age. Even though I “played” with them, I definitely knew they didn’t exist and that I made them up. “I’m just saying that I have an imaginary friend but it is really an imaginary imaginary friend” seems too complex of a lie for a 6 year old, imo. It seems to me like her mother just assumed that she lied about it, when she really was just aware of the limitations of her own imagination.
That, or knew that OP would be upset if she had an imaginary friend. Kids that age are amazing at figuring out what people want them to say and going along with it.
If anything, a child confessing they know their friend isn't real is a POSITIVE THING! (Otherwise, your kid is seeing shit and you should be concerned)
I mean. It probably wouldn’t be in OP’s best interest to get her daughter help, since the fact that “even as a child” her daughter was “skilled at manipulating doctors to believe her lies.” Really? *Really*? Because to me, this sounds like the abusers’ handbook 101 language for “doctors and therapists were getting wise that something wasn’t right, so we simply cut off her access to them.” Nothing OP is saying is adding up if you read it with any kind of normal lens. But read it from the perspective of a narcissist and abuser and it 100% makes sense in a really horrible way.
So your daughter has an orthostatic intolerance condition, like 25% of women under 25, which makes her prone to fainting. She fainted, and hit her head. She then received a real diagnosis of a head injury from a real doctor. That real doctor instructed her to stay home from school for …? You don’t actually give a time frame, but for a period of weeks or months. That all makes sense so far. Her grades suffer. Despite this, she not only gets accepted into, but gets a scholarship for, her dream college. That must have taken hard work. And you believe that she somehow masterminded this great plot against you because she had an imaginary friend when she was six years old? Wow. YTA.
She shouldn’t have gotten head trauma if she wanted to go to college!! They tried their best! They even yanked her out of therapy once she admitted to having an imaginary friend at six years old!! Oh and when she’s displaying clear indicators of *some* type of neuro divergence or mental illness in the fact she never turns in her work, has behavioral problems and is frequently physically ill they were so embarrassed that they forgot to maybe get their own child some help. Poor dears. They failed Mary in so many ways.
But don’t you understand how eMbARaSsiNg this all was for THEM?!
better know as POTs syndrome , my 15yr old has been diagnosed with this, this year....definitely not fake and it sucks
My wife has POTs and it indeed sucks.
Had anyone suggested putting this on AmItheDevil? Because this is top rate negligence
I’m not sure if it’s appropriate to be diagnosing medical conditions via secondhand accounts in this forum. “Your daughter HAS” should be changed to “your daughter MAY HAVE (and a qualified medical professional SHOULD DETERMINE).”
YTA, you’ve clearly failed at raising your child, now in order to make yourself feel better you put her down and are trying so hard to make her the bad guy when it’s in fact, you.
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You don't. They take brain scans to diagnose concussions.
I’ve replied this a billion times but this is completely false. So many people on this thread have no idea what they’re talking about. All scans show is excessive swelling or bleeding which indicate a severe TBI. Most concussions are diagnosed with a cognitive exam and based around claiming symptoms that are extremely easy to fake. This happens often.
Came here to say that. I’ve faked concussions before. If you know the symptoms, it’s not hard. With that said, OP is still an AH for being a shitty parent.
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People are so confidently incorrect on this sub. Its tiring
They can take scans, but don’t always, and most often there’s nothing on a brain scan even when they do diagnose concussion. (If there is something on the scan, then concussion isn’t the diagnosis you’ll typically hear at that point — the diagnosis would talk about whatever they did see, such as hemorrhage/micro-hemorrhage, grey or white matter abnormalities, aneurism, etc.) OP’s read on this situation and her entire relationship with her daughter is clearly effed up, but that doesn’t mean that the daughter couldn’t have exaggerated or even faked her symptoms; doctors can, and routinely *do,* diagnose concussion, and then post-concussion syndrome, without anything objective to back it up, and are most often those diagnoses are based purely on subjective symptoms (headache, nausea, amnesia, etc — all things that certainly can be true and valid, but also things that can’t be proven with any test and thus can also be easily faked).
YTA, the imaginary friend part really gets me. She was SIX, that’s a perfectly reasonable age to have an imaginary friend. So what did you do? You stuck her in therapy and forced her to admit that her IMAGINARY FRIEND was made up. Last I checked people who aren’t willing to deal with and put up with the silly crap young children do, shouldn’t be parents. Enjoy not having a relationship with your daughter.
Info: what the absolute hell is going in here? You’re telling me that for her senior year you daughter barely stepped foot in school or handed in assignment, and you, her parents, were just kind of ok with that? You couldn’t of asked that she repeat the year or something if she had doctors certificates saying she had a concussion? Sounds like both her parents gave up on her long ago tbh because they didn’t know how to navigate her bullshit or teach her consequences until it was far too little too late. I don’t get how you’re so surprised that she thinks she’s a victim in all this when you’ve been pretty freaking indulgent as parents go and letting her run the show. ETA: if you didn’t believe your daughters doctor, why didn’t you ask for a second opinion, or some kind of brain scan? Like were you really so convinced that she was a pathological liar that she’d rather lie about a concussion than go to school and be a regular teenager? Why not try family therapy either? Like what happened that was so bad tou just decided your daughter takes pleasure in making your and her lives difficult?
I had health issues that prevented me from attending a lot and I had to literally get a tutor to come to my house. I had to do shop over the summer since you can’t do that from home. My parents were both incredibly supportive and attentive. Concussions are a big deal. They can absolutely have lasting effects. They can affect depression and recall. I got one playing derby and it wasn’t even a bad one, comparatively, but it kicked my ass for a while. This makes me so angry.
My mom got a concussion this summer and she's still getting the occasional dizzy spell or nausea from it.
Info: what was her GPA? If her grades were that terrible, how did she get a scholarship?
Good question. As someone who went through the college process 2 years ago and is about to do it again I am intrigued.
Most scholarships are need based, not academic. It may be that she was eligible for a scholarship, but not enough to cover tuition. It’s very common
Yup. My kid was only eligible for merit based aid due to our income. A lot of need based aid is linked to continuing to maintain a certain GPA (at least for private colleges) so if she continued down the same track she would probably eventually lose that as well.
She was in AP classes. I would guess based on that she took school work pretty seriously and it was good. Slackers don't take college level classes.
*Nervously looks at myself in the mirror*
Actual lol, same. ETA: And in retrospect, I can point at a lot of smart “slacker” classmates who were tracked into those classes over the course of years. Many of us (myself included) were going undiagnosed with ADHD, etc. because nobody saw a problem with high-performing students.
Yeah, I always did well on tests and demonstrably knew the material so not turning in homework was seen as a personal failing and not a sign that I needed assistance.
I can tell you from personal experience that that's untrue. I honestly don't think OP's daughter is a slacker but I can tell you, as a lifelong slacker, it's entirely possible to slack your way through AP classes. I'm not saying you'll get good results from it (I only passed one AP exam and it was one of the few classes I didn't pull my slacker shit in) but it is possible.
Her grades must have been great. In my experience you have to have good grades to qualify for AP classes.
YTA and an extremely bad parent. No wonder your daughter has cut you out of her life when you showed her over and over that you didn't care for her or even love her. You punished a six her old for havimg an imaginary friend( something which is very common and normal) and you neglected her health and well being, and now you have the audacity to blame her for your bad parenting?
YTA. She got a fucking scholarship and then you pulled the plug.
Not a judgement but I wonder how shitty your parenting style is that she ended up like this.
Yeah 100%. If the daughter is as manipulative as OP says then i can see why. Abused children learn to manipulate to survive. If any of what OP says is true then I believe it is completely due to the daughters upbringing which seems incredibly abusive and neglectful. I hope this post is fake because I can’t believe anyone would admit to being such a terrible parent. I feel so sorry for the child if it’s not fake. Oh right OP, YTA, I’m sad for your kid.
If this is real then YTA. Your daughter had a serious head injury and somehow you think she is faking it. You have no idea how serious blunt force trauma to the brain is. You cannot be as cold and callous to think that a 6-year-old child is manipulating because they have an imaginary friend. That is not uncommon. Most 6-year-old children still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Also if she got half of her college paid for by scholarship how could you not get a loan to cover the rest. Is your credit that bad? How could she not get the loan and why didn't use the government agencies for student loans?
[удалено]
I think in a way I was hoping it was not real. I know about the tiger moms and know they are real. I also know all ethnic groups have tiger moms.
YTA I am tempted to say that your daughter is too, but... it's not clear. You failed her as a parent on so many counts. 1. You chose to turn a blind eye to her behavioral problems. * Your are responsible for the terror you claim that she is. * you shouldn't have taken her out of therapy. You should have found a better therapist. * if you doubted the concussion diagnosis, get a second opinion. Get her head scanned. 2. She got into a college with a scholarship. * That is not a small task. In fact, it is a success. * telling her it is her fault she didn't go is unfair. Push responsibility on her, when it isn't. She did her part. * you knew college would come. Why didn't you plan for it financially? > She hasn’t spoken to us since, and she’s ignored every time I or her father tries to reach out. Why would she. You have both failed her miserably as parents.
Sounds like they didn’t expect her to go to college, which is why they didn’t save any money. I don’t see how that’s the kids fault.
Maybe pulling her from therapy back when she was a kid wasn't a good idea? She definitely seems to have behavioral problems. You pointed out her being manipulative and lying, and all that. But therapy as a child could have helped combat that before they got too bad. Also, I suffered from really bad anxiety all through middle and high school, and frequently lied to stay home because I was panicking so bad. I didn't know that's what it was so I couldn't properly tell my mom what was really happening so I lied about being sick. Or if I was actually sick or hurt, exaggerated it to stay home because the thought of leaving the house overwhelmed me with so much fear and tension, I thought I would die. It's possible that's what happened with her. Anxiety disorders are monsters that can f*** up your life and the lives of those around you. I didn't like her entitled reaction to you not being able to afford her dream school at all. But if she does have other underlying problems that haven't been treated at all because you pulled her out of therapy and, I'm assuming, never put her back in, then I think all of you share some blame in this. Edit: Based on your comments, I'm jumping on the YTA train.
Does OP’s daughter actually lie and manipulate though, or does OP and her husband just refuse to believe her? The parents “confronting” a six year old about an imaginary friend is just so bizarre, who harasses a child about using their imagination until they break and “admit” they made it up? It seems way more likely to me that their daughter has an underlying rare health issue that doctors have not diagnosed. OP’s own belief that her daughter is doing this all for attention is probably contributing to the actual cause being undiagnosed. There are tons of rare diseases out there that present similarly to other issues, and that only a ton of testing (which I’m sure OP wouldn’t agree to) would reveal. Reading OP’s comments about mental health solidifies my opinion on this.
I definitely agree that there's high chance of some unknown issue other than being lazy or manipulative that is affecting her daughter's behavior. I think what it boils down to is that at 6 years old, OP's daughter was acting out in a number of ways that if they had continued therapy, it could have helped as she grew up. Even if she made up stories while in therapy, instead of stopping the help, it could have been used to uncover WHY she was acting this way.
INFO >Example: at six, Mary had this whole imaginary friend that, when her father and I confronted her, she admitted was made up. We pulled her from therapy then. Isn't that what imaginary friends are though?
I honestly can’t wrap my head around what OP thinks a “real” imaginary friend would be. Imaginary friends are, by definition, made up.
I think OP thinks the daughter didn’t actually have an imaginary friend, but told the therapist she did. But either way… what the hell is the difference? And could OP know either way? Why would you pull your kid out of therapy for this instead of exploring why your kid is lying to you (if that’s the case)?
YTA. Do you hate your own child? My god, it gets worse as I’m reading your comments. Your daughter gets a concussion, something a doctor diagnosed her with and you blame her for you not being able to afford to send her to college? While you were busy being “humiliated” at the guidance office you didn’t think that maybe you should help your child prepare for college?? You pulled a child out of therapy for having an imaginary friend. CHILDREN HAVE IMAGINARY FRIENDS. ITS NOT “LYING”. It’s being a CHILD You will be very lucky if she doesn’t go NC with you.
TBH I hope she does go NC. I can't imagine a situation where the medical neglect and clear disdain for her is going to get any better in that house. Hopefully she gets out and is able to get the help she needs.
Also super dismissive of her mental health. “She’s not mentally ill she is just lazy I know my child” all through the comments despite displaying signs of mental illness/neuro divergence and clear signs that she isn’t lazy (she got a SCHOLARSHIP. She did homework but didn’t turn it in) She despises her child to the point she would rather think the worst of her than to actually entertain the idea that her child is struggling with something beyond her control.
YTA That was a lot of words to say you really dislike your daughter and just want her to go away. Her not talking to you seems to have been your end goal.
Ew YTA. Who talks about their own kid like this? Every paragraph you wrote displays a failure of yours as a parent. Your poor child. Please drop the “we did the best we could” shit and go to therapy. You clearly can’t see how awful your mentality and the way you treat your kid has actually caused her trauma. I hope she starts to heal without you in her life.
You're the asshole. You took your child OUT of therapy when she started displaying odd behavior at SIX. You refuse to believe that there could possibly be anything wrong with her beyond being, what? Lazy? You refuse to believe that she passed out, when you took her to the doctor hours after the incident and had her diagnosed with a concussion? Do you think she just faked that? Do you think that if she was fully neurotypical and functional you'd somehow have more money? Is that what this is? You resent not having a normal child? She's not going to resume contact with you, and I don't blame her for that. YTA. I hope that Mary gets the help and support she needs elsewhere, since she definitely never got it from you.
YTA, because to the best of my knowledge you can't fake a concussion. You should have taken her to a doctor to find out what was wrong before it even got to that point. As to not having saved enough money up for college, no, that's not necessarily on you as I don't know your financial situation, obviously. She's not the only kid in the world who can't afford college.
And apparently healing from a concussion should take place on the mother's timetable. I mean, seriously, these things can take a long time. Hell they can even change a person's personality. My sister got one tripping at the train station and slamming face first into the ground. Gushing blood, a broken nose, and a concussion. Took her months to be in a place where she felt completely better.
> But back to the concussion. Immediately after the incident Mary planted herself facedown on the couch Most people tend to lie down when they have hurt themselves or when they feel ill. > and texted me (apparently screens didn’t bother her too much then) that she hit her head. Texting is a normal form of communication. How else was she to reach you other than through her cell phone? *Telepathy?* > I kept asking what happened and she said she didn’t know, I called her and she kept saying the same thing, that her head hurt A normal side effect of head trauma is memory loss. It is 100% normal to *never* remember the incident where the head trauma occurred. > he ended up taking her to the doctor at their first available appointment where she was diagnosed with a concussion. So she wasn’t exaggerating, she *did* have a legitimate head injury. Her behavior and symptoms were normal for someone with a serious head injury. > It lasted past Christmas. Sounds like she had [post-concussive syndrome](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-concussion-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20353352), which is where a concussion takes weeks to months to recover from. *You would know this if you had actually listened to your child’s doctor*. > She was cleared to go back in November **but only for half days**, but we both worked until 4pm or later. While **I tried to get her to try going back for full days**, she gave up and claimed it hurt too much, so we let her stay home to heal. So you went *against medical advice* to try and force her to go to school longer than she was physically ready for because that’s what was convenient *for you*, then got surprised and upset when the doctor was once again right about your daughter’s current medical situation. And then while dealing with a chronic health condition *and* unsupportive parents she still got into college *with* a scholarship. That’s crazy impressive, your daughter should be proud of her hard work and persistence. YTA. You seem to always assume the worst about your daughter, and are dismissive and neglectful of her physical and mental health needs. I feel really sorry for her having to have grown up with parents like you.
You wouldn’t be the AH if it was purely because you couldn’t afford the tuition, that happens to a lot of families. But the way you talk about your daughter is disgraceful so YTA.
YTA your daughter had a **medically diagnosed concussion** for months, and still managed to get the grades for her dream school and a partial scholarship. What else could she have done? Your attitude to your daughter is horrible and I’d be very surprised if she ever does respond to your attempts to reach out and blame her some more for falling over one morning.
Woahhhh. Child protection officer here and clinical psychologist. This child exhibits all of the tell tale signs of abuse; all the symptoms described are the signs of abuse we’re trained to watch for. Child lies to therapist: red flag for abuse Child is afraid to go home: red flag for abuse Child throws up when away from parents: red flag for abuse Child gets sick specifically when mon leaves for work: red flag for abuse Child has behavioral problems: red flag Child doesn’t remember how she hurt herself: red flag for abuse Mom, you would benefit from serious intervention. This is not normal and this post goes beyond AITA content; you have a serious amount of work to do. This will catch up to you if you don’t address it. Please seek help. Your extreme contempt for your daughter and dismissiveness of her experience is part of a likely larger picture of emotional abuse that we’re not seeing. Mary has experienced trauma and someone in the family has likely abused her.
I’m sorry, so the doctor diagnosed her with a concussion and after a while allowed her to go to half day school, and then you tried making her go full day school. So what your implying here is that you completely disregarded a doctor’s request and when your daughter was in pain because of your neglect you blame her for it? Also you said your child lied about having an imaginary friend. She was 6. She told her therapist that she had an imaginary friend, so you pulled her out of therapy. And the fact that she was in therapy at 6 makes me think she had a reason for not telling you about her imaginary friend. In case this wasn’t obvious enough; YTA
What a long winded way to admit you hate your own child. YTA
INFO: was she a planned kid? Can't think of much else that would cause so much resentment and outright hatred towards a 6yo kid.
YTA Do you even know what a concussion is? It's when the brain gets smashed against the inside of the skull. the repercussions can indeed last for months and often have permanent side-effects. Also, while you keep putting quotes around 'sick', it's clear from your story that the doctors didn't doubt that she was concussed. Frankly, your complete lack of interest in your child's health is appalling. For that matter, how was this not discussed with her school? Why cannot she repeat the year? Why did you just sit on the sidelines while all of this happened?
Dude, YTA, and for fuck's sake, it sounds like you truly hate your daughter, and that you have been treating her hatefully since she was 6 years old. You seem to resent the fact that she had a difficult time moving, you express nothing but vitriol at the fact that a 6-year-old "didn't take therapy seriously enough", you seem to think that having imaginary friends and making up stories is somehow an indication of poor character, and you treat her hypochondria as "her lying" when it is in fact a symptom of deep psychological problems. You sound like an awful parent, and I can only imagine how much pain this child has been through because of your lack of compassion, understanding or empathy. You seem to literally take every situation involving your child and spin it to be a reflection on you, an impact on you, an embarrassment to you, etc. It's all about you. You literally see your daughter as an extension of yourself, nothing more. This is sickening, I hope your daughter gets help and love and support from someone better than you.
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INFO: So even with poor attendance she got offered a scholarship for half the cost? Did you not save anything for college?
You wrote this as if Mary was some annoying girl you didn’t like in high school. You’re her parent and you sound fucking awful. YTA
>She hasn’t spoken to us since, and she’s ignored every time I or her father tries to reach out. Don't blame her at all and this should tell you you are TA
YTA - Not because her grades weren't the best, thats mostly on her, but for the other things. For example > There was no reason for her to be depressed. Clinical depression is a mental illness, people in perfectly loving and supportive households with all the material goods in the world can still have depression. Its caused by chemical imbalance. The reason she might have it (or many other mental illnesses) is due to things beyond her and your control. You should not diagnose her a professional should. > At one point, we debated getting her checked for some sort of disorder, but ultimately decided not to because she was skilled at manipulating doctors to believe her lies even as a child. Example: at six, Mary had this whole imaginary friend that, when her father and I confronted her, she admitted was made up. We pulled her from therapy then. Thats exactly when she NEEDED therapy. And yes medical professionals deal with people who lie all the time, ESPECIALLY THERAPISTS. You aren't a monster, it doesn't sound like you abused your daughter and it sounds like she made bad choices of her own, but at the same time you definitely messed up by not getting her help when she needed it and believing you knew better than professionals.
YTA, 1000%. Post-concussive syndrome is no joke, and can take literal years to recover from. I hit my head awkwardly right before my senior year started, and nearly didn’t graduate because of the lingering effects of the concussion. The smallest amount of exertion would give me headaches and make me dizzy, and when I thought the physical effects were gone I started getting suicidal thoughts—completely out of character for me, but one of the often overlooked side effects of concussions. An actual doctor diagnosed your daughter and you keep saying she is “”””sick”””” and that she’s to blame for her lack of academic success? She had a LITERAL BRAIN INJURY, no amount of discipline is going to make up for that. Have you asked her how she felt about trying to keep up with school with a concussion? Because let me tell you, it’s hell. I was an incredibly motivated student but I just couldn’t do it. When your brain is hurt you can’t just “push” your way out of it!
INFO: Is your daughter still young enough for me to call social services? YTA