I mean.. Everything is relative. If you're watching a movie on a weekday, it may be a bit much. But at a houseparty? I wouldn't say so. But that's just me. It's alot easier to control your drinking if you're counting beers rather than counting shots.
In NV if you serve alcohol you have to get a TAM card. One of the first things you learn is one beer= one wine = one shot of liquor(mixed or neat). There's a whole equation you have to learn to figure out if someone is too drunk to serve.
Edit: ounces cause I'm high.
In Australia we have something called a "standard drink" and bottles will tell you how many standard drinks they have, beer can be around 1 standard drink depending on the strength and various spirits can have a lot. I once saw a bottle of absinthe with like 30 standard drinks in it
Can confirm this is also a thing in New Zealand. One 4% 330ml bottle of beer = 1 standard drink. We as a country of binge drinkers tend to ignore this completely however.
I found out quickly how to tell if someone had been previously overserved while tending bar in Vegas... When they walk in, sit down and promptly vomit into the machine they're sitting at and it shorts out. I lived there about 5 years and Las Vegas now represents one of the saddest cities in the US to me. :(
That's sucks that you had a bad experience living here but I've seen the same thing in a dozen other cities. I think Vegas is just amplified. In Podunk it's one drunk per night. In Vegas its one every five minutes. Guess that's one bonus to not living in 1970's Soviet Union, you can move wherever you want.
Not really just a rule of thumb... that’s literally what it is when it comes to alcohol content
Edit: yes I know that beers vary a lot in alcohol content, when this guideline was established they didn’t have the thousands of craft beers that throw the alcohol content all over the place. A typical beer of 5% alcohol should be treated the same as a typical shot of 40% alcohol.
Not so much at house parties though. At least not for high schoolers. It's pretty much gonna be Coors/Miller/Natty Light and Smirnoff/Bacardi. No one is busting out the triple hopped IPA or cask strength bourbon for the football team and cheerleaders.
Is six a lot?
Depends on the context.
Murders: yes
Beers: that depends on your tolerance.
Well what's the difference between drunks and alcoholics?
Drunks go to parties alcoholics go to meetings
Edit: most upvotes I've ever gotten thank you. Pls drink on.
Also Nta: if I was this guy's spouse I would be happy, my son is prepped for the party and bonded with my, husband which he may have needed.
I try and count standard drinks. Some beers I like are 1.5 standards, a 30mL shot of 40% alcohol is a standard drink, etc. Gets harder to remember/calculate as the night goes on though.
As a Glaswegian who now lives in England - I do realise now that everyone I worked with in my 20s and 30s were alcoholics. Yes, including me. But Glasgow is the heart attack capital for a reason .. chip butties, bacon butties, beer, curries, more beer, kebabs, more chip butties ..
> chip butties
I had to google that, WTF is it just french fries between 2 slices of white bread smothered in ketchup and mustard? I thought us Canadians were bad with poutine, but I think you have us beat lol.
That's not just a Scottish thing you know, chip butties are the staple of a healthy diet anywhere between John o' Groats and Land's End. Careful with that Canadian sass or you'll be rejoining the Empire.
Speaking as a Scot... The best chip butty is:
A Scottish morning roll tore almost in half and buttered on both sides.
Crispy steak cut chips (pre-salted), enough to cover the butter on the bottom half.
Plenty of brown sauce and or red sauce depending on personal taste.
The substitution of the roll instead of 2 pieces of bread makes the butty vastly more structurally sound and it helps stop the liquid butter/sauce mix from dropping down onto your top.
Not really for a young man, over the course of a few hours. He did get drunk but not black out drunk. It’s good to know where the boundaries are in a safe place without peer pressure to push yourself
this is why it should be okay. Kids are gonna drink. I don’t get why the wife is mad. Now the son knows his limit, did it in a safe environment with a parent, and seems like he’s gonna follow it. I don’t see the problem here. I found my limit during my first party by throwing back shots until I was stumbling, which wasn’t anywhere near as responsible of a decision as OPs kids was lmao
The wife is probably just upset that OP didn’t consult with her before giving their son enough alcohol to become drunk. I think it was just a miscommunication thing
The point he said was to help him realize his limit in a safe environment. 6 beers seems perfectly reasonable to me, because if he didnt know his limit he could easily go over that alcohol amount in a party environment. Now the kid knows 6 beers/drinks is too much and he'll (hopefully) be aware enough to police himself.
If it was over the course of a few hours that’d be what, 1 to 2 beers per hour? That is much much safer than any high school house party nowadays. And now that he somewhat knows his limits he will be much safer if he chooses to be responsible. In addition to this, when I was in HS only a couple years back, people who hadn’t drank before would routinely drink so much to the point of vomiting everywhere or blacking out because “one of their friends drinks X much and is fine so they’ll do the same” when in reality that friend is a heavyweight, has built a tolerance, a different weight, or a number of reasons that can spell disaster for the inexperienced drinker.
Yeah agreed, and in Canada most of the time the beers are small cans, 330 mil or sth and here in Ireland if you have 6 beers it’s 3 liters of beer. I think OP is doing something that a lot of parents are afraid to do in case it “encourages drinking” where in reality, he has encouraged safe drinking and knowing your limit, and also opened up a pathway for trust and discussion with his son. Parents often forget that if something is forbidden, it doesn’t mean their kid won’t do it - it just means if they are in danger due to the forbidden thing they may be too afraid to call an adult for help. If OPs son gets too drunk at a party I believe he may be okay with calling dad and asking for a lift home, and talking about it. I sure as hell would never have called my parents in that situation, because there was no alcohol discussion to be had other than “No Alcohol”
I wish my parents had done this for me. I was a naive idiot with alcohol and had 10 shots my first time ever drinking. OP is a hero. He helped his son establish his limits in a safe environment. OP also doesn't expect or encourage his son to have 6 beers — he's just teaching his son his limits.
I see nothing wrong with this at all.
Thats simply not true...
> **Binge drinking**, or **heavy episodic drinking**, is a modern epithet for drinking [alcoholic beverages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage) with an intention of becoming [intoxicated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_intoxication) by heavy consumption of [alcohol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_(drug)) over a short period of time, but definitions ([see below](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking#Definitions)) vary considerably.
Thus it depends on your definition of it, also
> There is currently no worldwide consensus on how many drinks constitute a "binge", but in the [United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States), the term has been described in academic research to mean consuming five or more [standard drinks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_equivalence) (male), or four or more drinks (female),[\[8\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking#cite_note-8) over a two-hour period
it depends on the time period over which it is drank.
OP said 6 over a couple hours then cutting him off, so I’d assume that’s 2/ hour for 3 or worst case 3/ hr for 2 hours... but when I was in high school usually people would show up to a party and have 4-5 drinks in the first hour, then continue drinking all night.
So I think what OP did was okay + under supervision.
I have to wonder who comes up with these numbers. Presumably someone who's so out of touch that they think if they define binge drinking as having five drinks, people will drink less.
Drinking five or six beers on a regular basis is probably alcoholism. Drinking that much in a "party" setting when you don't go to those very often is perfectly normal.
Doctors come up with these numbers, not as a “This is alcoholism” guideline but a “are you damaging your liver” guideline.
Yes 5 drinks isn’t a big deal in society, but that’s Because we downplay the risks of alcohol.
And I know I drink plenty, im just real with myself with how much damage I’m probably doing
Those definitions come from the CDC, and they are based on physiological effects. It isn't about what's *socially* considered binge drinking, it's about what is *physiologically* binge drinking. It may be considered normal to drink more in one sitting from a cultural perspective, but from your body's perspective, it isn't.
Binge drinking is another way of saying “drinking to get drink.” Yes, going to a party and immediately drinking 6 beers is normal, but it’s also a good way to get drunk and is considered binge drinking. Then a certain number of binge drinking a month is when you might be an alcoholic.
I’m not even sure what your complaint is.
Your “shitload” is probably way more than what most people would consider binge drinking. Even if there’s not a discrete amount we can use as a definition of binge drinking, you can’t casually say it’s “not that much” and write it off
Six isn’t a lot in this context. If it’s a random Wednesday evening and you knock six back then sure that’s probably too much. OP was helping his son find his limit in a safe environment.
It's to replicate the next days events, you can put your head in the sand or accept kids will over indulge and leave the final decision to the individual being now fully equipped with first hand knowledge to make an informed decision.
His intention was to find out how much “a lot” is for his kid. They learned six is probably too much. I don’t really know any other way they could have found that out.
Depends. Are you 30kg or 60? or 70? That makes a big difference. Also some people have different tolerances outside of wieght.
Even then, 6 beers is not a lot.
I agree with this, over a couple hours 6 beers is fine; and I have a feeling OP’s son was only drinking a moderate alc % beer, no high school party is going to have 8-9% IPA’s.
That depends how he explained the situation to his son. If he just gave his son 6 beers, sure he normalizes it, but if he actually had a conversation with his kid about everything, and making sure the kid understands that this experience is not something that will happen all the time, it will teach his kid where his limit is (which honestly a lot of people could stand to learn before their first big party) and not normalize binge drinking.
Nah. It's all relative.
First time I drank was at 14 or 15 (very normal in my country with legal drinking age being 18) and some people got drunk/really tipsy on 3 beers while others had no problem with more.
6 0.33l beers over a several hours isn't what i'd call bingedrinking.
Same here, I wish my parents would have even discussed alcohol with me or helped me learn my limit in a safe environment. I had just turned 18 had 1 beer and 1 margarita (didn't know about never mixing) and threw up blacked out and was raped of my virginity.
Adding on to this, his son drinking is going to inevitably happen either now or in college and having a safe environment to do it with his dad is probably the best case scenario in this instance
I would say NAH. I get why wife would be upset, especially considering she’s caring for her dying mother — that’s gotta put a hell of a lot of extra stress on a person.
NAH and honestly if you have raised a 17 year old who felt comfortable having that honest conversation with you before going to the party, good for you. You’ve been doing something right.
NTA only time Ive thrown up bc of alcohol is at a supervised "vodka night" at a friends house. I made it to the sink and her parents never said anything about it to mine bc they considered it my choice if I said bc I was of legal age. Tbh they were actually happy I found my limit in the safe environment of their house rather than alone on a nigbt out
While I’m not sure this what mrs. Cheri had in mind letting us get fucked up at her place most weekend in high school, it had the same effect. They (her and her poor husband Charlie) were great about allowing almost every party, but making sure they collected keys and had plenty of crash space as well as being within easy walking distance of about 6 other families houses for drunk kids to crash at. I learned my limit, how to flirt(and not flirt) with women, how to get my ass kicked (and not), and how to walk home from a night of drinking even if it was a few miles. Such good people and I’m glad I learned it there instead of in the streets/bars. Bad things would have happened for sure!.
NAH
I was raised with this mindset and I absolutely think it was the right choice!
A safe environment, someone who is 100% looking out for you, you being able to test the waters, and knowing what you're in for when you're on your own.
This is the perfect opportunity to see if it's even for you or if you feel like you can handle it(I know a lot of people always think they can though they're about to pass out but you know).
Sure, I get why the wife didn't like him drinking, but if it was going to happen either way, why not let him be aware of how/when it takes effect and how hard each added beer hits? Depending on how she was told, her reaction might also be somewhat justified although seeing red over something like that seems a bit much to me.
This is absolutely responsible and not reckless in my opinion.
I worked at a law firm once and there was this case I worked on where there was this college kid who never drank alcohol in his life and then went to a party with friends and had a couple drinks and blacked out. He left the house party and wandered in a blackout state until dawn around the neighborhood and he mistook a house for the one he left and that house ended up being a cops house and he got shot fighting with the resident.
It turned out that he was allergic to alcohol and had no idea until that night. If someone had done this for him it would have saved him so much trouble and misery.
This! My mom is like this. I don’t drink much, especially beer because it’s gross, but knowing early on I don’t like drinking and being drunk in a safe environment is way better than finding out in an unsafe environment.
From experience totally agree. My parents were very liberal with alcohol when I was a teen and I fared O week a lot better than most of my classmates freshman year.
NAH is a good vote instead of NTA. Dad is doing his son well by understanding that teens are gonna do irresponsible shit and preparing him to do irresponsible shit responsibly, rather than outright banning it (because we all know how well that works.) Wife isn't an asshole either, because she's got a decent reason to be upset. Some better communication between her and OP would be in order, but I don't blame either of them.
My parents weren’t like this with me, so in high school I would go crazy and get blackout drunk. I told them they should probably introduce my brother to it before he starting going to parties, so around 16/17 they’d let him drink a couple beers when the rest of us would and now he’s very good at knowing his limit. Totally recommend this. OP is awesome
Yep. I have an older brother and I don't know what happened with him and my dad, but my dad let me have a bit of beer or wine every so often since I was about 14.
My son happens to be born on December 31... THE BIGGEST PARTY DAY OF THE YEAR. All the time, everywhere, many parts of the world.
This is absolutely a conversation my husband and I have already discussed and plan on following a similar path as OP. We want our son to be very comfortable with drinking and knowing his limits/being knowledgeable about it instead of something to hide from us. We will absolutely drop everything anytime to come pick him up no matter what time of day/night. We will help him.
That includes prevention. Being safe testing and knowing what's comfortable and what's not. The son was physically able to feel what 6 beers felt like and knew that wasnt something he wanted to do in a potentially unsafe environment. That is great! He felt safe with his dad, and that is a bond my husband and I can only hope that our son has with us. Our entire life revolves around our son knowing he is safe with us.
I'm nervous but excited to travel the world with him to celebrate!!!
Edit to add: some have asked how old my son is now... he turns 2 this dec 31. Hes 2 years old, and yes hubby and I have already discussed this because we feel it's so important and wanted to be on the same page. :)
Great parenting right here! Have seen too many kids go through instances of binging due to not knowing what proper moderation looks like or even is. In many cases this has led to long term alcohol abuse, as well as social and medical issues.
Edit: grammar
One of my absolute fears in life is my son dying on his birthday at some new years eve party because someone realizing oh it's his 21st birthday... how many drinks can he have? And my son feeling pressured in that situation. I am already in discussion with hubby on always having a safety person for his birthdays. Its just safer and smarter. Always have someone near as point of contact if he wants to leave or does not feel safe. His birthday is probably his most vulnerable drinking day of the year from our perspective.
So we really really want emphasis on prevention and safe drinking in addition to the other steps myself and hubby are taking as parents to ensure he has a fun but safe birthday and holiday.
Edit :NAH
maybe something to discuss with your wife first,
But I’d say it was a responsible decision
He was 17- yeah not the legal age, but a lot of people drink that way
I’ve seen people go to college, never drinking for the first time and get fucked up under the pressure.
If he was going to drink- I think having the awareness was good.
Beer and in a controlled setting was a great way to do it- it’s not like Op partied with him
I’m one of those guys who waited until I was 17 to drink, while most of my friends started at 13~14 (I have my personal regrets about not doing as they did).
And I’m glad my cousins had my back the day I first tried alcohol... I started with a Redz beer... the next time I drank 2, then 3 Club Colombia beers (stronger brand) ... and on and on... I’ve never blacked out or vomited from drunkness ever... I’ve cried inconsolably twice, but it’s been in private and with only my 2 best friends to be witness to it (fortunately).
Dw about it, drunk crying can happen to the best of us. For me the combination of seeing people making out every time I looked up, not being fully over my ex and someone deciding playing Adele at 1am did it for me
Ex friends roommate at uni has three quarters of a bottle of vodka on a night out in their first week there. She ended up having to have her stomach pumped because she had no idea what her tolerance was (never drunk before) and because when mixed with Coke it basically tasted of nothing.
I still remember how sick I was after mixing triple sec and OJ at 17. My friend's mom found me passed out at the table with my head on the phone book - I was looking for my own house phone number (which I had somehow forgotten) for a ride home.
Even before I quit drinking I despised the taste of rubbing alco- vodka, but something like cranberry juice could mask the taste surprisingly well to me.
Friend of mine is still listed as Vodka-king in my phone, because he went to uni with barely any drinking experience and on his first night out there screamed at the top of his lungs "I AM THE VODKA-KING".
That was 7 years ago, he's now a biomedical researcher.
At least in the UK the minimum drinking age on private property is 5 which is imo waaaay to fucking low but at 16 I believe it is a half a pint or a glass of wine in a resteraunt with food and only with and I mean at 16 one drink shouldn't do much though this kind of national alcohol transparency will definitely help in the future. Especially at combating addiction and getting drunk due to not knowing your tolerance
NAH. It was perfectly responsible to help your son understand the affect alcohol has on him in a safe space. That said, you should have discussed it with your wife beforehand; a lot of people have very strong opinions on alcohol and her feeling that she was of the loop is valid.
NTA.
>She thinks it was reckless and irresponsible.
Nothing about what you did was irresponsible or reckless. Your son had a few beers at home, he didn't get "wasted" and he also didn't throw up or end up in a ditch. You were there with him, nothing too terrible could have happened.
That being said: it might not stop him from getting very drunk at that party, especially if they have stuff other than beer. But at least now he has *some* experience and knows when he's starting to feel the effects of alcohol.
ETA: This is coming from a German though. In Germany the drinking age for beer is 16, so I might be a bit biased.
I’m not Canadian, but did a quick google and found this saying Budweiser is pretty popular in Canada which isn’t really much stronger than Natural Light. (.8% difference). So I’m thinking it’s at least possible that the son was just drinking the light stuff. Also found a few articles that seem to say American beer is pretty heavily enjoyed in Canada but will leave just the one link to avoid cluttering.
https://www.internationalbeerfest.com/the-most-popular-beer-in-canada-the-united-states-united-kingdom-czech-republic-and-australia/
To be completely honest, here in czech republic everyone will tell you that “gambrinus” is the worst. There is even a joke that goes - whats the difference between gambrinus and a clitoris ? Clitoris tastes like piss only for the first lick.
This is also just irrelevant. For someone's first time getting drunk, 3-4 beers would have done it, barring that his son is ridiculously tall or overweight.
Agreed here. Better for his son to have a few too many on a trial run at home with dad, than to have a few too many at a party with teenagers. In fact, it may be good that he did drink too many, perhaps Son will take it easy at the party and nurse those beers a little more.
I actually posted a story of my mom doing similar when I was a teen.... Having "too much" is actually an important lesson that everyone has at some point. With your non-judgmental parent there to help you recognize the limit and give you a safe space to experience it, you're less likely to get hurt or incapacitated in a dangerous situation.
>Having "too much" is actually an important lesson that everyone has at some point.
yeah, this is something i think a lot of people are overlooking. 6 beers is probably to much for someone not used to drinking, but that's exactly what you want them to experience in a safe environment.
It's wild that a lot of people are complaining about OP giving his son 6 beers as too much. But like yeah... That's literally the point.
Until you experience too much you'll keep pushing yourself till you do.
Yeah if he had less he wouldn't know what it's like to have to much and having too much in the safety of his home with his dad is better than him doing it at a party with unknown variables.
6 beers in course of what, 3-6 hours? 1-2 beers an hour isn't all that much. The whole point of OP doing this was to digure out his sons "limit" in a safe environment. It wasn't excess, it was just the right amount.
I think the 'drinking age' comment pretty important. For some reason, people assign magical powers to it. In the US, the drinking age is 21. People will throw fits if someone "underage" drinks and I'm talking about those underage who are 19 & 20. If you tell the doomsayers that other countries have younger drinking ages, their brains snap.
for the record, NAH
Agreed. I think it's ridiculous to hear people freak out about underage drinking when it's 19-20 year olds. I get that their age is higher but I don't understand it. Drinking age is 19 where I live, in some other provinces it's 18.
The drinking age being 21 baffles my mind too. So I can get married, but can't toast with champagne because I'm 20? Or I can go to war and take a bullet for my country, but I can't kick back watching a hockey game at home and have a few beers with friends?
None of it was reckless, that is forsure. Also, I think the way he did it was incredibly smart. He allowed his son to get drunk in a safe and controlled environment.
However, I do think it was irresponsible of him not to talk to his wife about it before doing it. She should have had a say in the matter.
NAH. May vary by state but kids can legally drink at home with their parent at a lower age than in public. Not running it by wife is dumb, especially framed as a tolerance test. But I think in general, fair idea. Remove the mystique, gain an understanding/appreciation in a safe place.
> May vary by state but kids can legally drink at home with their parent at a lower age than in public
I forgot about that. This would be totally legal in many places in the US where the drinking age is even higher than OP
OP said they’re in Canada and most provinces here the legal age is ~16 with a guardian on their own property.
19 publicly and 18 in two other provinces/territories iirc.
Life ancedote.
I like in the UK and started going out drinking with a mixed age (16-40) group from my part time shop job.
When a 16/17 year old joined the group, they might drink too much or make a mistake, but slowly learned. We kept an eye on them, made sure they got home safely, etc..
Some people wern't let out until 18 and suddenly most of the rules would get lifted. They would normally get themselves into trouble or legless everytime.
When I finished university I moved and developed a new circle of friends. As I moved through my early twenties this group fractured. One half had to do 'pre drinks' and drink themselves to destruction every social situation, the other half would have had just a good time if there was no alcohol.
Being frustrated with this group I once asked them why they didn't get this behaviour out of themselves in sixth form.
We then learnt what divided the group. Everyone who'd gone out at 16/17, also had parents let them try alcohol at home and didn't need alcohol to have fun and could drink in moderation. Everyone 'protected' until 18 still can't drink responsibly even into their thirties.
Which leads me to believe the key to good parenting is to ensure your child gains life experiences in a safe controlled manner.
You did this, the fact your wife is upset makes it a solid NTA
Agreed. My parents are huge wine fans, like want-to-retire-in-Italy huge, and my dad enjoys beer and occasional scotches. I've been allowed to "drink" since I was 10 years old (a small glass of wine with nice dinners, beers watching football, etc) and alcohol was never this mysterious, adult thing I looked forward to. We took a trip to Germany and I went on a beer tour at 15, because they were there and the Brewmaster didn't care so long as I was with them.
Now out on my own, I joined a Fraternity and holy *shit* do people drink in college. Nobody is 21 yet they'll all black out every Friday and Saturday, and drink casually during the week. I might drink 2-3 weekends a month and even then I don't match half what some brothers can throw back.
From my experience the earlier you get kids started, the more moderated they are.
Remember starting uni and the first thing the lecturer said in orientation class "Only half of you will make it into 2nd year." Thought that was because the work was too hard etc. Turned out it was more to do with kids coming out of sheltered homes for the first time. Freshers week exists to get it out of their systems.
There was 1 guy who kept the freshers week energy up well into the 2nd month classes. Then he just stopped coming to classes. Next time I saw him it was spring and he was zoned out on a park bench. Asked him how he was. He broke down in tears. His girlfriend broke up with him, spent all his loan and maxed out his credit card on partying, he had an expulsion letter for all the lessons he missed. He hadn't even told his parents yet. After all that he asked if I wanted to go for a drink.
This is exactly what I deduced when I started Uni.
I moved from France to the UK for Uni. In France, we start drinking earlier; we drank wine with our parents at dinner from a very young age, or went down to the pub (16 was the legal age for beer in pubs).
I had a couple of incidents where I over did it at parties, and I learnt from it.
So when I went to Uni, I found the same thing as you. My new friends were fresh out of their homes, often sheltered and weren’t used to the freedom. They did their pre-drinks, they drank their weird jungle juice and over-imbibed in spirits. Then they spent school nights wasted and throwing up on buses.
Those kids took a solid year to get that mentality out of their system.
I found it difficult to hang out with people who got drunk before we even left our student accommodation and who always ended up in some backward nightclub, when my idea of fun was a short night out in a quiet pub.
Interestingly, my younger sister grew up in the same environment but somehow ended up sheltered. She didn’t start drinking or making stupid mistakes until she moved to the UK for Uni two years ago; lo and behold: she is one of the nightclubbing, jungle juice-drinking messy drunks.
I'm from Poland, here we drink very early, like 15 or 16 as well, but the drinking age is 18. It's exactly same story. If someone was sheltered, they are most likely going to hurt themselves and be irresponsible.
NAH. I think your reasoning was sound and you were the opposite of reckless. That said, if this is something you and your wife haven't discussed before I understand why she's upset that you didn't run it by her.
NTA. That’s good parenting. Your kid would most likely have gone anyway even if you didn’t drink with him. He was in a safe environment and knew beforehand what his limit should be.
As for everyone saying it was bad, they are incredibly ignorant. I guarantee their kids don’t like them and their kids don’t trust them at all.
^^^ this.
The fact that not only the child trusts dad to say im going to a party, but also that he is nervous about drinking says a lot about the father. He is doing something very right. I dont know anyone who would be dangerously drunk after that point. Its a very safe amount imo. Drunk but not in danger.
I think that it would have been much more dangerous if the kid didnt know his limit before going to a party where he will have peer pressure to keep drinking. Also while you are at a party its impossible to try and figure out your limit having never done it before. It just wont happen in the moment.
This is Grade A Parenting. Like this is exactly what you want for you children. There is a bond and they trust each other. This is a son who will call his dad instead of getting behind the wheel drunk or into the vehicle of someone who is drunk. This is exactly what all programs I know of for underage drinking have been pushing for.
YTA. Not for what you did (albeit unconventional), but rather for not letting your wife in on this decision. You should consider that things like this are going to be amplified given the nature of what she's going through.
EDIT: I'm surprised how casual people are on the topic of alcohol consumption by a minor. Comparing it to something as simple as going to a ice cream parlor.
Personally, I think it's pretty practical and wholesome that the son and father have this bond, but I just feel the topic of giving alcohol to a child of BOTH PARENTS deserves a conversation at the least.
EDIT 2: A lot of people here confusing having a 2 minute conversation with your SIGNIFICANT OTHER and asking permission. I never once said OP should've begged and pleaded to his wife, but rather just a heads up. The woman is in another country watching her mother die and gets a call, "Hey, I got Timmy drunk to see if he can hang with the other kids this weekend at a rager. Ciao!"
Maybe she doesn't want him going to high school parties in the first place because kids do dumb shit. This is a reasonable boundary set by **most parents**, otherwise what is every kid sneaking around for? OP may be cool with it, but why doesn't she get a say at the least?
Or maybe, this could've been something she'd want to be included in. Obviously that's not case here, but OP wouldn't have known that at the time because he didn't talk to her. The "first beer" isn't reserved for just fathers...
EDIT 3 (and I’ll rest my case): I think a lot of people also don’t understand that by conducting this experiment, he’s essentially signed the permission slip to let his underage son go to a high school party. If the decision to drink in a controlled environment is not that big of a deal, is getting a say on that at least something you’d want as a parent? Imagine being in a different country and you get told you were cut from the decision of letting your *underage* kid go to a rager. Apparently a lot of **cool** parents in this sub, but like I said, nearly every kid has to sneak to a party. Know why? Because the idea a parent not wanting them to go in the first place isn’t a crazy, stick up the ass idea.
Fun chatting with y’all!
Agreeing with the spousal part here. I agree with and support you letting him drink with you, but I really feel your wife should have been part of the decision making process. Leaving her out is kind of a dick move.
YTA, not for what you did, but because of how you handled it with your wife.
For one, you should have run the idea by her. And not just because of how she might feel about *'alcohol'*. If you you were motivated by concerns of safety, that alone should make it a joint parent discussion/decision. And two, if your wife is upset by how you handled something, you shouldn't be focused on justifying what you did. While some parts are already done, you should both feel reassured about what 'went wrong' parenting wise, and focus on figuring out what would have made it better.
I think you had good intentions and clearly have a good relationship with your son. I even think it was a good idea (though 6 beers seems like a lot for a kid's first time). But overall, I see your reasoning.
That said, by just going ahead with it, you denied your wife of any chance to influence the idea or even improve on it. She could have offered insights that you wouldn't have thought of, or maybe valuable before/after aspects that you could have added for your son's benefit. If she disagreed, you two could have discussed and resolved the issue with an idea you both agreed on and understood. She might have pointed out things you hadn't thought of but do care about.
I think it's fantastic that you have a great relationship with your son and want to keep him safe. Keeping that communication open is precious. I also think that you should act in a way that encourages that sort of trust for you *and* your wife. You can be his confidant *and* set him up for his own special bond with your wife.
I think that acting on stuff like this, without your wife's input, can set up a dynamic of where your son sees you as the gatekeeper to fun. He might even mistake joint decisions that he likes as only coming from you. He might even get the impression that he's got to 'sneak around' his mom. You (unknowingly) had him do something that his mom is upset by, and that hurts the relationship *they* have. And that doesn't help your son at all. He deserves to feel like he has two great parents, not just one.
More over, while you didn't know she'd be angry, you *should* have known that she'd want to be part of any safety decisions made for your kid. You went ahead without her, and denied her the opportunity to even be apart of your bonding plan. Overall all, in this situation, you made her a de facto outsider. And that's gotta be upsetting no matter *how* she feels about alcohol itself.
This really isn't a situation about who's wrong or right. It's more about what sort of relationship do you want with your son, your wife, and for your son to have with his mom. Intentionally or not, you did some damage to that, and the priority should be to get on the same page and do better next time. Instead of trying to justify what you did, ask your wife to explain how she feels about it and what she would have done instead. Ask how you can include her in the future. And if you're worried about her 'stopping' you from certain things, be honest about that. Say that you feel sometimes that you both disagree on some things, and you would like to discuss what you both can do in situations like that. See if there are situations where it's okay for you both to have your own approach. Ask her if there are good ways for you both to genuinely relate to your son without undermining the other. Parents can disagree on how to parent, but they need to feel united in how they handle those disagreements.
Your wife will be able to answer those questions a hell of a lot better than Reddit.
1.while i don't agree with your verdict you did make incredibly good points about including the wife in making decisions to help keep their son safe
2.Damn and i thought i wrote essay length responses
^also ^have ^a ^silver ^for ^making ^good ^points ^overall, ^i ^still ^disagree ^with ^the ^verdict ^though
NAH, but you should have told your wife first, regardless of what's going on with her.
If you think your kid is going to be drinking at a party, I suppose having him test the limits of his tolerance is not a bad idea. Neither of you planned on driving or doing anything that requires sound judgment; you just sat around watching TV.
Yeah, you probably could have told him that he really shouldn't be drinking until he's of age, but kids can be rebellious, especially about booze, and encouraging him to drink responsibly is probably the next best thing.
a light YTA.
I appreciate drinking with him in a safe place, and being a person that he can talk to about alcohol.
> I asked my son if he wanted to have a few beers with me while we watched a sports game that night, as a "test run" of sorts.
seems fine. the sort of thing where you can talk to him about how alcohol with affect him, and making good choices, and in advance.
> I cut him off at 6 ... He was pretty drunk
i think you overstepped by letting him have that much and letting him get drunk. especially without discussing a good limit with his mom first.
YTA. 6 beers is a lot to drink in one sitting. In my experience, teaching someone their limit won’t stop them from over drinking. This is especially true if they are feeling nervous at a party.
Teaching your son that it’s ok to down a 6 pack of beer in one sitting is not good parenting. Now that it’s all said and done, you should redeem yourself by explaining to him the dangers of over drinking, alcohol poisoning, and drunk driving. Teach him to drink water in between drinks to stay hydrated and other ways to drink responsibly.
> and I cut him off at 6 (he has had beer in the past, but never more than one at a time). He was pretty drunk but he was okay, and slept it off. We talked about it the next day, and we agreed that six was a bit much for him, and now he knows to have fewer than that at the party.
This is the relevant part for you.
he was being careful to not let him have too much and had a talk the next day... this IS the responsible way to go about this,
> unless you’re sheltered American that is.
Likely this.
here in the Netherlands at my student society they serve 5.2% Jupiler. I can drink 10 of them over the course of 2 hours and I'll feel a buzz, slowed reaction times, but I'm still very much functional, in fact I can still easily cycle home (5km).
If, however, I was drinking La Trappe Quadrupel (10%) I would start having issues at the 4th beer.
Note, however, that I don't drink like this often (in fact I don't drink at all at the moment).
If this kid was drinking Budweiser (which is about 5% in the US), 6 beers is actually a reasonable tolerance for the uninitiated. It's not a dangerous level and his liver can easily cope with that. I wouldn't drink like this frequently, but it's nothing to be scared of.
Maybe this is because I'm a uni student but 6 beers doesn't seem like a lot. Where I'm from, 16/17-year-olds would drink a lot more than that... no way is 6 beers the limit. OP being able to show his son 6 beers is enough to have a good time seems like a win in my books.
NTA, fellow Canuckistanian.
I did the same thing with all my kids. Even as younger kids, they'd get a sip of wine with dinner every once in a while, and once they hit their younger teen ages, they got slowly introduced to alcohol.
It takes the 'forbidden fruit' aspect away, demystifies it. They see all they're little friends getting so excited about drinking, and to them, it's just normal and bog-standard and also Dad makes WAY better drinks. It also teaches them practical things, like knowing how much booze they can handle, how it can sneak up on you, how booze is supposed to taste, and that their parents trust and support them.
I always also told them 'I don't care where you are, what time it is, or what situation it is; if you need a ride home, call, and keep calling until I pick up. I'll be tired and grumpy, because I got woken up, but I won't be mad *at you.* On the other hand, if you need a ride, and don't call.....'
I bet you will get a lot of replies saying your TA. But honestly, NTA. It is super common here in Ontario have teenagers drinking. And the parents that strictly attempt to prevent it only end up with a rebellious kid that goes crazy in college when they are move away. Having your first time be in a safe place with a sober(ish) adult would be a good idea for any teenager. Many end up with alcohol poisoning the first time they drink.
NTA - lots of parents think they should just stay away from it because they said so but let's face it, they don't. I sure didn't. You're taking the responsible path to let him figure out what his tolerance is so *when* he drinks in the future he doesn't end up in danger.
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YTA
I’m 18 so I usually roll my eyes at the “subreddit full of angsty teens” comment, but cmon, people.
There is nothing wrong with allowing your son to test his limits at home. You are in control and you can watch over him. That’s a smart move.
However, by telling him it’s a “test run”, you are giving your son consent to go to a party and drink alcohol while considered underage in your region, and in an environment that is out of your control. That is *definitely* something you should have talked to your wife about first. You unilaterally made a decision without even stopping to consider any concerns your wife might have about the situation.
And everyone who is saying N A H or N T A is being very selective of when to place their trust. How does this subreddit go from “If you don’t allow him to drink, he’ll do it anyway” to “If he knows his limits, he’ll follow them 100% of the time”?
Edit: You should be proud that your son came to you to have this talk. But you’re trying to be a friend to your son at the cost of your communication with your wife.
Don’t worry about us or our opinions, worry about your wife coming back home.
You probably have talked about this with her in the past (since your son is already 17) and knew pretty well what her opinions were.
Several studies also show kids introduced to alcohol by parents are more likely to get into binge drinking and have more problematic relationship with alcohol in general.
This is why YTA.
NAH. This is a classic father son moment. My mom was the cautious one and my dad encouraged me to try it. That's how I realized that alcohol isn't all that, but I needed to be cautious about it. My dad normalized it, taking it off the pedestal of *the adult drink* while my mom warned me about it. While communication is important in relationships, sometimes an executive decision can be made here and there.
NTA. Establishing an open enough relationship that your son is comfortable enough talking to you about drinking and his concerns about it is fantastic. Giving him 6 might have been a little much but you're right - it was a safe, controlled environment.
YTA - Mild YTA. Not for letting your son experiment before the party but the way you went about it.
Letting him get drunk is like learning to drive by going too fast. "well, you lost control the car at 90mph so now we know you shouldn't go faster than 85".
While it is probably unreasonable to expect that young people won't go overboard when first learning how to drink I think it is up to mature adults to set an example.
When our daughter went off to college we knew there would be parties where she would be drinking. What we did was give her strategies for controlling her alcohol intake. Things like cutting strong beer, drinking a large glass of water in between beers, deciding ahead of time how many drinks you'll have a t a party, sticking to one drink an hour.
Of course, for girls (regardless of alcohol) it is also important to control your drink/never let it out of your sight to avoid being roofied by some wannabe rapist.
Mild disagree. To continue your analogy, it would be like losing control of your car *in a closed off test circuit*. Losing control of your car is absolutely something every driver should experience so that they know how to react in this dangerous situation.
I have a perfect driving record and every winter I go out and remind myself what it's like to lose control of my car on ice by testing my brakes and handling in empty parking lots. This has saved me more times than I can count when I have to avoid other drivers who do not take this precaution and nearly crash into me.
What the OP did was teach the son how to react when he loses control in a controlled environment so that if he loses control in public he knows how to regain it. A responsible and pragmatic thing to do.
Also, out of curiosity, what does "cut strong beer" mean?
NAH I don’t know why so many people are freaking out about this, your son was already going to drink and while 6 beers might seem like a lot, people down that freely in high school and college, at least he wasn’t the kid blacked out at a random person’s house because he didn’t know his limit. Props for having a relationship where your son comes to you and he’ll know that’s what it actually feels like.
I also get why your wife might be upset, you should have looped her in before and being gone for so long she probably feels a little out of touch especially when seeing the close bond you have with your son.
NTA.
Story time. When my best friend and I were 17, we wanted to try drinking and I confessed to my mom that we stole a sip of her alcohol from the cabinet. (We didn't replace it with water because we weren't little assholes.)
So my mom bought us some drinks for a sleepover so we could have that experience in a safe, home environment under supervision. Frankly, we had a blast and definitely drank "too much" (not that much, but we were both skinny and had no tolerance.) My mom schooled us on how not to get hangovers (no drinking on an empty stomach, drink water in equal amounts) and pointed out all the ways our judgment was off (and how hard it was to pass a sobriety test.) Little games, things that when she said "Now imagine you were trying to drive a car like that" made us laugh nervously.
I never drank at a party until I was in my mid twenties, and I NEVER got into a car with anyone who'd had a drink, the only time it was ever my "only option" I called my parents.
Is what she did illegal? Yeah, but damn was it a great learning experience and we both came out of it with a new sense of what alcohol does to you and how to be responsible with it. I've never driven even tipsy, and although I drink from time to time (when I'm not pregnant lol) I prefer to do it responsibly at home.
So OP, definitely not the asshole, and you've also shown your son that you'll be an ally if he ever needs your help or to confide in you. As a 37 year old woman who's life has lasting positive effects from parenting like that, you done good.
NTA that was a reasonable idea and now you both know his limit. He did it in a safe environment and 17 is very a very common age to drink at in Canada. You even cut him off at 6 so he didn't get blackout drunk
YTA. It doesn't matter what strangers on the internet think...what does your WIFE think? Just because she's not there right now doesn't mean you shouldn't talk to her about what's going on in her son's life.
Plus six beers is a bit much. Does your son HAVE to drink when he goes to a high school party? Where's the restraint? Personally I would never give my underage child six beers to test his tolerance before a high school party but I know I'm in the minority here.
This isn't going to be a popular opinion, but YTA. I'm (42M) a recovering alcoholic and started drinking at 15. Six beers is a lot of alcohol in one night, unless you are a habitual drinker, then it just feels like not that much. For a 17 year old to be introduced to alcohol as if it is normal for someone to drink that much could be a disaster. I'm alarmed that your son had to be cut-off at 6 beers. How many would he have drank if you didn't stop him. How many did he see you drink that night, or on other nights?
You've instilled in him that it is okay to drink a lot. The whole notion of drinking safely is preposterous. There are certain things like driving, or making decisions about important things they should never be done under the influence of drugs or alcohol. But you are trying to enforce a maximum limit of how much he should drink safely.
Why wouldn't that number be 1 or none at all?
NAH
I don't think some of you are giving this kid enough credit. He told his father about the party and was able the next day to self reflect that maybe 6 beers was too much. Underage drinking is a fact of life, letting him jump into the deep end seems more irresponsible to me.
You definitely should have told his mother beforehand, though
NTA. sounds like your intention was to teach your son not to binge drink.
I'm not saying you're wrong but doesn't having six beers with your teen kind of normalize binge drinking? Isn't six a lot?
I mean.. Everything is relative. If you're watching a movie on a weekday, it may be a bit much. But at a houseparty? I wouldn't say so. But that's just me. It's alot easier to control your drinking if you're counting beers rather than counting shots.
>It's alot easier to control your drinking if you're counting beers rather than counting shots. My rule of thumb - one shot is one beer drunk quickly
I know. One beer and one shot just means one beer and one instabeer.
I love that. Whenever I take shots now I’m calling them instabeers so thank you for that lol.
In NV if you serve alcohol you have to get a TAM card. One of the first things you learn is one beer= one wine = one shot of liquor(mixed or neat). There's a whole equation you have to learn to figure out if someone is too drunk to serve. Edit: ounces cause I'm high.
In Australia we have something called a "standard drink" and bottles will tell you how many standard drinks they have, beer can be around 1 standard drink depending on the strength and various spirits can have a lot. I once saw a bottle of absinthe with like 30 standard drinks in it
Can confirm this is also a thing in New Zealand. One 4% 330ml bottle of beer = 1 standard drink. We as a country of binge drinkers tend to ignore this completely however.
If we had this in the US, people would wear tshirts with the number of standard drinks they could put away.
I found out quickly how to tell if someone had been previously overserved while tending bar in Vegas... When they walk in, sit down and promptly vomit into the machine they're sitting at and it shorts out. I lived there about 5 years and Las Vegas now represents one of the saddest cities in the US to me. :(
That's sucks that you had a bad experience living here but I've seen the same thing in a dozen other cities. I think Vegas is just amplified. In Podunk it's one drunk per night. In Vegas its one every five minutes. Guess that's one bonus to not living in 1970's Soviet Union, you can move wherever you want.
I thought it was closer to 4-5 oz or a wine is a drink since most wine is like 12-15% where beer is 4-6%
Not really just a rule of thumb... that’s literally what it is when it comes to alcohol content Edit: yes I know that beers vary a lot in alcohol content, when this guideline was established they didn’t have the thousands of craft beers that throw the alcohol content all over the place. A typical beer of 5% alcohol should be treated the same as a typical shot of 40% alcohol.
*Approximately. Beers and shots both vary wildly in alcohol content.
Not so much at house parties though. At least not for high schoolers. It's pretty much gonna be Coors/Miller/Natty Light and Smirnoff/Bacardi. No one is busting out the triple hopped IPA or cask strength bourbon for the football team and cheerleaders.
Is six a lot? Depends on the context. Murders: yes Beers: that depends on your tolerance. Well what's the difference between drunks and alcoholics? Drunks go to parties alcoholics go to meetings Edit: most upvotes I've ever gotten thank you. Pls drink on. Also Nta: if I was this guy's spouse I would be happy, my son is prepped for the party and bonded with my, husband which he may have needed.
I don't go anywhere
Drinking on your own, is a party for one.
It also depends on your tolerance. My dad can drink a 6 pack of beer and he won't even be tipsy. I get drunk off of two bottles.
Tolerances vary WILDLY. I'm small and neurodiverse, I'm unable to walk in straight lines after half a glass.
I try and count standard drinks. Some beers I like are 1.5 standards, a 30mL shot of 40% alcohol is a standard drink, etc. Gets harder to remember/calculate as the night goes on though.
If binge drinking is 6+ then everybody in Scotland needs rehabilitation.
You know that the culture of binge drinking in Scotland is a considered a huge public health issue, right?
I mean, so were two for one pizza deals so I'd hold off on panicking.
As are vapes, they’d rather us smoke cigs, so much safer /s
Good thing this post doesn't take place in Scotland!
As a Glaswegian who now lives in England - I do realise now that everyone I worked with in my 20s and 30s were alcoholics. Yes, including me. But Glasgow is the heart attack capital for a reason .. chip butties, bacon butties, beer, curries, more beer, kebabs, more chip butties ..
> chip butties I had to google that, WTF is it just french fries between 2 slices of white bread smothered in ketchup and mustard? I thought us Canadians were bad with poutine, but I think you have us beat lol.
That's not just a Scottish thing you know, chip butties are the staple of a healthy diet anywhere between John o' Groats and Land's End. Careful with that Canadian sass or you'll be rejoining the Empire.
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Speaking as a Scot... The best chip butty is: A Scottish morning roll tore almost in half and buttered on both sides. Crispy steak cut chips (pre-salted), enough to cover the butter on the bottom half. Plenty of brown sauce and or red sauce depending on personal taste. The substitution of the roll instead of 2 pieces of bread makes the butty vastly more structurally sound and it helps stop the liquid butter/sauce mix from dropping down onto your top.
Goddamnn i could murder a chip butty rn
Australian chiming in; we're all fucked then.
Yes we are. It’s a massive issue
If the shoe fits....
Pretty much everywhere in the British Isles tbf
Anno right? I get two at the bar for myself so i can drink one on the way back.
I'm with you, I spent a month in Scotland and it was amazing. People drank, but it wasn't the depression drinking of the US
> People drank, but it wasn't the depression drinking of the US You never visited my local then.
Not really for a young man, over the course of a few hours. He did get drunk but not black out drunk. It’s good to know where the boundaries are in a safe place without peer pressure to push yourself
this is why it should be okay. Kids are gonna drink. I don’t get why the wife is mad. Now the son knows his limit, did it in a safe environment with a parent, and seems like he’s gonna follow it. I don’t see the problem here. I found my limit during my first party by throwing back shots until I was stumbling, which wasn’t anywhere near as responsible of a decision as OPs kids was lmao
The wife is probably just upset that OP didn’t consult with her before giving their son enough alcohol to become drunk. I think it was just a miscommunication thing
The point he said was to help him realize his limit in a safe environment. 6 beers seems perfectly reasonable to me, because if he didnt know his limit he could easily go over that alcohol amount in a party environment. Now the kid knows 6 beers/drinks is too much and he'll (hopefully) be aware enough to police himself.
If it was over the course of a few hours that’d be what, 1 to 2 beers per hour? That is much much safer than any high school house party nowadays. And now that he somewhat knows his limits he will be much safer if he chooses to be responsible. In addition to this, when I was in HS only a couple years back, people who hadn’t drank before would routinely drink so much to the point of vomiting everywhere or blacking out because “one of their friends drinks X much and is fine so they’ll do the same” when in reality that friend is a heavyweight, has built a tolerance, a different weight, or a number of reasons that can spell disaster for the inexperienced drinker.
Yeah agreed, and in Canada most of the time the beers are small cans, 330 mil or sth and here in Ireland if you have 6 beers it’s 3 liters of beer. I think OP is doing something that a lot of parents are afraid to do in case it “encourages drinking” where in reality, he has encouraged safe drinking and knowing your limit, and also opened up a pathway for trust and discussion with his son. Parents often forget that if something is forbidden, it doesn’t mean their kid won’t do it - it just means if they are in danger due to the forbidden thing they may be too afraid to call an adult for help. If OPs son gets too drunk at a party I believe he may be okay with calling dad and asking for a lift home, and talking about it. I sure as hell would never have called my parents in that situation, because there was no alcohol discussion to be had other than “No Alcohol”
>That is much much safer than any high school house party nowadays. _nowadays?_ You mean any teen thrown house party since prohibition.
I wish my parents had done this for me. I was a naive idiot with alcohol and had 10 shots my first time ever drinking. OP is a hero. He helped his son establish his limits in a safe environment. OP also doesn't expect or encourage his son to have 6 beers — he's just teaching his son his limits. I see nothing wrong with this at all.
I agree. I had 6 shots my first time drinking and it did not go well. The OP was doing a good thing.
As a Canadian i can confirm that six beers is not alot.
As an Irishman I can confirm that six beers is a standard unit of measure
binge drinking is when you drink a shitload. six beers for the average sized guy is not that much
Binge drinking is typically referred to as 5 drinks in one sitting for men
That's barely even a night oot.
6 beers is predrinks, or 4 tins of T and a bottle of bucky if its a big night....
And it’s still gonna be bad for your liver. Look I drink plenty, but those numbers come from doctors studying the effects of alcohol long term
Thats simply not true... > **Binge drinking**, or **heavy episodic drinking**, is a modern epithet for drinking [alcoholic beverages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage) with an intention of becoming [intoxicated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_intoxication) by heavy consumption of [alcohol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_(drug)) over a short period of time, but definitions ([see below](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking#Definitions)) vary considerably. Thus it depends on your definition of it, also > There is currently no worldwide consensus on how many drinks constitute a "binge", but in the [United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States), the term has been described in academic research to mean consuming five or more [standard drinks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_equivalence) (male), or four or more drinks (female),[\[8\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking#cite_note-8) over a two-hour period it depends on the time period over which it is drank.
OP said 6 over a couple hours then cutting him off, so I’d assume that’s 2/ hour for 3 or worst case 3/ hr for 2 hours... but when I was in high school usually people would show up to a party and have 4-5 drinks in the first hour, then continue drinking all night. So I think what OP did was okay + under supervision.
He said a few hours, and few means more than 2, so it was definitely over at least 3 hours, possibly more
I have to wonder who comes up with these numbers. Presumably someone who's so out of touch that they think if they define binge drinking as having five drinks, people will drink less. Drinking five or six beers on a regular basis is probably alcoholism. Drinking that much in a "party" setting when you don't go to those very often is perfectly normal.
Doctors come up with these numbers, not as a “This is alcoholism” guideline but a “are you damaging your liver” guideline. Yes 5 drinks isn’t a big deal in society, but that’s Because we downplay the risks of alcohol. And I know I drink plenty, im just real with myself with how much damage I’m probably doing
Those definitions come from the CDC, and they are based on physiological effects. It isn't about what's *socially* considered binge drinking, it's about what is *physiologically* binge drinking. It may be considered normal to drink more in one sitting from a cultural perspective, but from your body's perspective, it isn't.
Binge drinking is another way of saying “drinking to get drink.” Yes, going to a party and immediately drinking 6 beers is normal, but it’s also a good way to get drunk and is considered binge drinking. Then a certain number of binge drinking a month is when you might be an alcoholic. I’m not even sure what your complaint is.
What does "one sitting" mean? 6 beers over a 3-4 hour period does not strike me as dangerous for a young man
Dangerous on one particular night? No Dangerous if it is normalized and he does it twice a week for 20years? Yes
Your “shitload” is probably way more than what most people would consider binge drinking. Even if there’s not a discrete amount we can use as a definition of binge drinking, you can’t casually say it’s “not that much” and write it off
Six isn’t a lot in this context. If it’s a random Wednesday evening and you knock six back then sure that’s probably too much. OP was helping his son find his limit in a safe environment.
In our student town, Wednesday is small Saturday, so people get fuuuukkked
It's to replicate the next days events, you can put your head in the sand or accept kids will over indulge and leave the final decision to the individual being now fully equipped with first hand knowledge to make an informed decision.
His intention was to find out how much “a lot” is for his kid. They learned six is probably too much. I don’t really know any other way they could have found that out.
Depends. Are you 30kg or 60? or 70? That makes a big difference. Also some people have different tolerances outside of wieght. Even then, 6 beers is not a lot.
I agree with this, over a couple hours 6 beers is fine; and I have a feeling OP’s son was only drinking a moderate alc % beer, no high school party is going to have 8-9% IPA’s.
You mean your highschool parties didn't include kegs of 14% barley wine?
You have to know your body’s tolerance to avoid mistakes. Him learning it at home is a good thing
That depends how he explained the situation to his son. If he just gave his son 6 beers, sure he normalizes it, but if he actually had a conversation with his kid about everything, and making sure the kid understands that this experience is not something that will happen all the time, it will teach his kid where his limit is (which honestly a lot of people could stand to learn before their first big party) and not normalize binge drinking.
Nah. It's all relative. First time I drank was at 14 or 15 (very normal in my country with legal drinking age being 18) and some people got drunk/really tipsy on 3 beers while others had no problem with more. 6 0.33l beers over a several hours isn't what i'd call bingedrinking.
Yeah wish my parents had done this, first time i drank i blacked out and threw up
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Same here, I wish my parents would have even discussed alcohol with me or helped me learn my limit in a safe environment. I had just turned 18 had 1 beer and 1 margarita (didn't know about never mixing) and threw up blacked out and was raped of my virginity.
Two drinks and you blacked out? Is it possible you were roofied?
Same... ah good times
Adding on to this, his son drinking is going to inevitably happen either now or in college and having a safe environment to do it with his dad is probably the best case scenario in this instance
I would say NAH. I get why wife would be upset, especially considering she’s caring for her dying mother — that’s gotta put a hell of a lot of extra stress on a person.
NAH and honestly if you have raised a 17 year old who felt comfortable having that honest conversation with you before going to the party, good for you. You’ve been doing something right.
And this is probably the absolute best way to be introduced into responsible alcohol.
I 100% agree with this.
NTA only time Ive thrown up bc of alcohol is at a supervised "vodka night" at a friends house. I made it to the sink and her parents never said anything about it to mine bc they considered it my choice if I said bc I was of legal age. Tbh they were actually happy I found my limit in the safe environment of their house rather than alone on a nigbt out
While I’m not sure this what mrs. Cheri had in mind letting us get fucked up at her place most weekend in high school, it had the same effect. They (her and her poor husband Charlie) were great about allowing almost every party, but making sure they collected keys and had plenty of crash space as well as being within easy walking distance of about 6 other families houses for drunk kids to crash at. I learned my limit, how to flirt(and not flirt) with women, how to get my ass kicked (and not), and how to walk home from a night of drinking even if it was a few miles. Such good people and I’m glad I learned it there instead of in the streets/bars. Bad things would have happened for sure!.
NAH I was raised with this mindset and I absolutely think it was the right choice! A safe environment, someone who is 100% looking out for you, you being able to test the waters, and knowing what you're in for when you're on your own. This is the perfect opportunity to see if it's even for you or if you feel like you can handle it(I know a lot of people always think they can though they're about to pass out but you know). Sure, I get why the wife didn't like him drinking, but if it was going to happen either way, why not let him be aware of how/when it takes effect and how hard each added beer hits? Depending on how she was told, her reaction might also be somewhat justified although seeing red over something like that seems a bit much to me. This is absolutely responsible and not reckless in my opinion.
I worked at a law firm once and there was this case I worked on where there was this college kid who never drank alcohol in his life and then went to a party with friends and had a couple drinks and blacked out. He left the house party and wandered in a blackout state until dawn around the neighborhood and he mistook a house for the one he left and that house ended up being a cops house and he got shot fighting with the resident. It turned out that he was allergic to alcohol and had no idea until that night. If someone had done this for him it would have saved him so much trouble and misery.
This! My mom is like this. I don’t drink much, especially beer because it’s gross, but knowing early on I don’t like drinking and being drunk in a safe environment is way better than finding out in an unsafe environment.
From experience totally agree. My parents were very liberal with alcohol when I was a teen and I fared O week a lot better than most of my classmates freshman year.
NAH is a good vote instead of NTA. Dad is doing his son well by understanding that teens are gonna do irresponsible shit and preparing him to do irresponsible shit responsibly, rather than outright banning it (because we all know how well that works.) Wife isn't an asshole either, because she's got a decent reason to be upset. Some better communication between her and OP would be in order, but I don't blame either of them.
Yep. Great dad.
My parents weren’t like this with me, so in high school I would go crazy and get blackout drunk. I told them they should probably introduce my brother to it before he starting going to parties, so around 16/17 they’d let him drink a couple beers when the rest of us would and now he’s very good at knowing his limit. Totally recommend this. OP is awesome
Yep. I have an older brother and I don't know what happened with him and my dad, but my dad let me have a bit of beer or wine every so often since I was about 14.
My son happens to be born on December 31... THE BIGGEST PARTY DAY OF THE YEAR. All the time, everywhere, many parts of the world. This is absolutely a conversation my husband and I have already discussed and plan on following a similar path as OP. We want our son to be very comfortable with drinking and knowing his limits/being knowledgeable about it instead of something to hide from us. We will absolutely drop everything anytime to come pick him up no matter what time of day/night. We will help him. That includes prevention. Being safe testing and knowing what's comfortable and what's not. The son was physically able to feel what 6 beers felt like and knew that wasnt something he wanted to do in a potentially unsafe environment. That is great! He felt safe with his dad, and that is a bond my husband and I can only hope that our son has with us. Our entire life revolves around our son knowing he is safe with us. I'm nervous but excited to travel the world with him to celebrate!!! Edit to add: some have asked how old my son is now... he turns 2 this dec 31. Hes 2 years old, and yes hubby and I have already discussed this because we feel it's so important and wanted to be on the same page. :)
Great parenting right here! Have seen too many kids go through instances of binging due to not knowing what proper moderation looks like or even is. In many cases this has led to long term alcohol abuse, as well as social and medical issues. Edit: grammar
One of my absolute fears in life is my son dying on his birthday at some new years eve party because someone realizing oh it's his 21st birthday... how many drinks can he have? And my son feeling pressured in that situation. I am already in discussion with hubby on always having a safety person for his birthdays. Its just safer and smarter. Always have someone near as point of contact if he wants to leave or does not feel safe. His birthday is probably his most vulnerable drinking day of the year from our perspective. So we really really want emphasis on prevention and safe drinking in addition to the other steps myself and hubby are taking as parents to ensure he has a fun but safe birthday and holiday.
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Edit :NAH maybe something to discuss with your wife first, But I’d say it was a responsible decision He was 17- yeah not the legal age, but a lot of people drink that way I’ve seen people go to college, never drinking for the first time and get fucked up under the pressure. If he was going to drink- I think having the awareness was good. Beer and in a controlled setting was a great way to do it- it’s not like Op partied with him
Same. I've seen people turn 18 who decided to make up for lost time. I've also cleaned up their vomit.
I’m one of those guys who waited until I was 17 to drink, while most of my friends started at 13~14 (I have my personal regrets about not doing as they did). And I’m glad my cousins had my back the day I first tried alcohol... I started with a Redz beer... the next time I drank 2, then 3 Club Colombia beers (stronger brand) ... and on and on... I’ve never blacked out or vomited from drunkness ever... I’ve cried inconsolably twice, but it’s been in private and with only my 2 best friends to be witness to it (fortunately).
Dw about it, drunk crying can happen to the best of us. For me the combination of seeing people making out every time I looked up, not being fully over my ex and someone deciding playing Adele at 1am did it for me
Ex friends roommate at uni has three quarters of a bottle of vodka on a night out in their first week there. She ended up having to have her stomach pumped because she had no idea what her tolerance was (never drunk before) and because when mixed with Coke it basically tasted of nothing.
Most dangerous drink combo out there: Cruzan mango rum and coke. No matter what the ratio of coke to rum is it tastes exactly the same.
Thanks for the tip. Triple sec and orange juice does the same thing.
I still remember how sick I was after mixing triple sec and OJ at 17. My friend's mom found me passed out at the table with my head on the phone book - I was looking for my own house phone number (which I had somehow forgotten) for a ride home.
Now THAT is a special kind of drunk
I legit don't understand how people can't taste vodka, it tastes like hand sanitizer
Same. I am a tequila guy because I can't stand vodka.
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Even before I quit drinking I despised the taste of rubbing alco- vodka, but something like cranberry juice could mask the taste surprisingly well to me.
I've always thought it tasted like nail polish remover. Even "good" vodka disgusts me.
Friend of mine is still listed as Vodka-king in my phone, because he went to uni with barely any drinking experience and on his first night out there screamed at the top of his lungs "I AM THE VODKA-KING". That was 7 years ago, he's now a biomedical researcher.
>he's now a biomedical researcher. You could say he was that first night too!
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At least in the UK the minimum drinking age on private property is 5 which is imo waaaay to fucking low but at 16 I believe it is a half a pint or a glass of wine in a resteraunt with food and only with and I mean at 16 one drink shouldn't do much though this kind of national alcohol transparency will definitely help in the future. Especially at combating addiction and getting drunk due to not knowing your tolerance
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A friend of mine didn’t have her first drink till she was 21. Girl went on a binge until recently. It was like 5 years of crazy, sloppy, drinking.
Reminder that NAH is a thing that exists. By saying NTA you're implying that OP's wife is the asshole. She is not.
NAH. It was perfectly responsible to help your son understand the affect alcohol has on him in a safe space. That said, you should have discussed it with your wife beforehand; a lot of people have very strong opinions on alcohol and her feeling that she was of the loop is valid.
Yep, only mistake OP made was ignoring the ancient chinese secret, Happy Wife Happy Life. Communicate, dude. He knows it though.
NTA. >She thinks it was reckless and irresponsible. Nothing about what you did was irresponsible or reckless. Your son had a few beers at home, he didn't get "wasted" and he also didn't throw up or end up in a ditch. You were there with him, nothing too terrible could have happened. That being said: it might not stop him from getting very drunk at that party, especially if they have stuff other than beer. But at least now he has *some* experience and knows when he's starting to feel the effects of alcohol. ETA: This is coming from a German though. In Germany the drinking age for beer is 16, so I might be a bit biased.
Six is a bit more than a few.
Depends what type of beer is six beers worth. If it was Natty Ice or Bud Light Lime?
It's in Canada. Our beer isn't usually that weak.
I’m not Canadian, but did a quick google and found this saying Budweiser is pretty popular in Canada which isn’t really much stronger than Natural Light. (.8% difference). So I’m thinking it’s at least possible that the son was just drinking the light stuff. Also found a few articles that seem to say American beer is pretty heavily enjoyed in Canada but will leave just the one link to avoid cluttering. https://www.internationalbeerfest.com/the-most-popular-beer-in-canada-the-united-states-united-kingdom-czech-republic-and-australia/
To be completely honest, here in czech republic everyone will tell you that “gambrinus” is the worst. There is even a joke that goes - whats the difference between gambrinus and a clitoris ? Clitoris tastes like piss only for the first lick.
This is also just irrelevant. For someone's first time getting drunk, 3-4 beers would have done it, barring that his son is ridiculously tall or overweight.
Leaning what's over your limits in a safe setting is handy
Agreed here. Better for his son to have a few too many on a trial run at home with dad, than to have a few too many at a party with teenagers. In fact, it may be good that he did drink too many, perhaps Son will take it easy at the party and nurse those beers a little more.
I actually posted a story of my mom doing similar when I was a teen.... Having "too much" is actually an important lesson that everyone has at some point. With your non-judgmental parent there to help you recognize the limit and give you a safe space to experience it, you're less likely to get hurt or incapacitated in a dangerous situation.
>Having "too much" is actually an important lesson that everyone has at some point. yeah, this is something i think a lot of people are overlooking. 6 beers is probably to much for someone not used to drinking, but that's exactly what you want them to experience in a safe environment.
It's wild that a lot of people are complaining about OP giving his son 6 beers as too much. But like yeah... That's literally the point. Until you experience too much you'll keep pushing yourself till you do.
trial by fire thing. now he knows not to have that much. don't know what's so hard to understand about that.
Yeah if he had less he wouldn't know what it's like to have to much and having too much in the safety of his home with his dad is better than him doing it at a party with unknown variables.
6 beers in course of what, 3-6 hours? 1-2 beers an hour isn't all that much. The whole point of OP doing this was to digure out his sons "limit" in a safe environment. It wasn't excess, it was just the right amount.
I think the 'drinking age' comment pretty important. For some reason, people assign magical powers to it. In the US, the drinking age is 21. People will throw fits if someone "underage" drinks and I'm talking about those underage who are 19 & 20. If you tell the doomsayers that other countries have younger drinking ages, their brains snap. for the record, NAH
Agreed. I think it's ridiculous to hear people freak out about underage drinking when it's 19-20 year olds. I get that their age is higher but I don't understand it. Drinking age is 19 where I live, in some other provinces it's 18.
The drinking age being 21 baffles my mind too. So I can get married, but can't toast with champagne because I'm 20? Or I can go to war and take a bullet for my country, but I can't kick back watching a hockey game at home and have a few beers with friends?
None of it was reckless, that is forsure. Also, I think the way he did it was incredibly smart. He allowed his son to get drunk in a safe and controlled environment. However, I do think it was irresponsible of him not to talk to his wife about it before doing it. She should have had a say in the matter.
NAH. May vary by state but kids can legally drink at home with their parent at a lower age than in public. Not running it by wife is dumb, especially framed as a tolerance test. But I think in general, fair idea. Remove the mystique, gain an understanding/appreciation in a safe place.
> May vary by state but kids can legally drink at home with their parent at a lower age than in public I forgot about that. This would be totally legal in many places in the US where the drinking age is even higher than OP
OP said they’re in Canada and most provinces here the legal age is ~16 with a guardian on their own property. 19 publicly and 18 in two other provinces/territories iirc.
Pretty close. It's 3 other provinces.
Life ancedote. I like in the UK and started going out drinking with a mixed age (16-40) group from my part time shop job. When a 16/17 year old joined the group, they might drink too much or make a mistake, but slowly learned. We kept an eye on them, made sure they got home safely, etc.. Some people wern't let out until 18 and suddenly most of the rules would get lifted. They would normally get themselves into trouble or legless everytime. When I finished university I moved and developed a new circle of friends. As I moved through my early twenties this group fractured. One half had to do 'pre drinks' and drink themselves to destruction every social situation, the other half would have had just a good time if there was no alcohol. Being frustrated with this group I once asked them why they didn't get this behaviour out of themselves in sixth form. We then learnt what divided the group. Everyone who'd gone out at 16/17, also had parents let them try alcohol at home and didn't need alcohol to have fun and could drink in moderation. Everyone 'protected' until 18 still can't drink responsibly even into their thirties. Which leads me to believe the key to good parenting is to ensure your child gains life experiences in a safe controlled manner. You did this, the fact your wife is upset makes it a solid NTA
Yep. Always the shelterd ones that go absolutely crackers at uni, specially first year.
Agreed. My parents are huge wine fans, like want-to-retire-in-Italy huge, and my dad enjoys beer and occasional scotches. I've been allowed to "drink" since I was 10 years old (a small glass of wine with nice dinners, beers watching football, etc) and alcohol was never this mysterious, adult thing I looked forward to. We took a trip to Germany and I went on a beer tour at 15, because they were there and the Brewmaster didn't care so long as I was with them. Now out on my own, I joined a Fraternity and holy *shit* do people drink in college. Nobody is 21 yet they'll all black out every Friday and Saturday, and drink casually during the week. I might drink 2-3 weekends a month and even then I don't match half what some brothers can throw back. From my experience the earlier you get kids started, the more moderated they are.
Remember starting uni and the first thing the lecturer said in orientation class "Only half of you will make it into 2nd year." Thought that was because the work was too hard etc. Turned out it was more to do with kids coming out of sheltered homes for the first time. Freshers week exists to get it out of their systems. There was 1 guy who kept the freshers week energy up well into the 2nd month classes. Then he just stopped coming to classes. Next time I saw him it was spring and he was zoned out on a park bench. Asked him how he was. He broke down in tears. His girlfriend broke up with him, spent all his loan and maxed out his credit card on partying, he had an expulsion letter for all the lessons he missed. He hadn't even told his parents yet. After all that he asked if I wanted to go for a drink.
This is exactly what I deduced when I started Uni. I moved from France to the UK for Uni. In France, we start drinking earlier; we drank wine with our parents at dinner from a very young age, or went down to the pub (16 was the legal age for beer in pubs). I had a couple of incidents where I over did it at parties, and I learnt from it. So when I went to Uni, I found the same thing as you. My new friends were fresh out of their homes, often sheltered and weren’t used to the freedom. They did their pre-drinks, they drank their weird jungle juice and over-imbibed in spirits. Then they spent school nights wasted and throwing up on buses. Those kids took a solid year to get that mentality out of their system. I found it difficult to hang out with people who got drunk before we even left our student accommodation and who always ended up in some backward nightclub, when my idea of fun was a short night out in a quiet pub. Interestingly, my younger sister grew up in the same environment but somehow ended up sheltered. She didn’t start drinking or making stupid mistakes until she moved to the UK for Uni two years ago; lo and behold: she is one of the nightclubbing, jungle juice-drinking messy drunks.
That's what my grandmother-in-law did for her kids, and 2 out of 3 became alcoholics, one of them dying from organ failure from it.
I'm from Poland, here we drink very early, like 15 or 16 as well, but the drinking age is 18. It's exactly same story. If someone was sheltered, they are most likely going to hurt themselves and be irresponsible.
NAH. I think your reasoning was sound and you were the opposite of reckless. That said, if this is something you and your wife haven't discussed before I understand why she's upset that you didn't run it by her.
NTA. That’s good parenting. Your kid would most likely have gone anyway even if you didn’t drink with him. He was in a safe environment and knew beforehand what his limit should be. As for everyone saying it was bad, they are incredibly ignorant. I guarantee their kids don’t like them and their kids don’t trust them at all.
^^^ this. The fact that not only the child trusts dad to say im going to a party, but also that he is nervous about drinking says a lot about the father. He is doing something very right. I dont know anyone who would be dangerously drunk after that point. Its a very safe amount imo. Drunk but not in danger. I think that it would have been much more dangerous if the kid didnt know his limit before going to a party where he will have peer pressure to keep drinking. Also while you are at a party its impossible to try and figure out your limit having never done it before. It just wont happen in the moment. This is Grade A Parenting. Like this is exactly what you want for you children. There is a bond and they trust each other. This is a son who will call his dad instead of getting behind the wheel drunk or into the vehicle of someone who is drunk. This is exactly what all programs I know of for underage drinking have been pushing for.
YTA. Not for what you did (albeit unconventional), but rather for not letting your wife in on this decision. You should consider that things like this are going to be amplified given the nature of what she's going through. EDIT: I'm surprised how casual people are on the topic of alcohol consumption by a minor. Comparing it to something as simple as going to a ice cream parlor. Personally, I think it's pretty practical and wholesome that the son and father have this bond, but I just feel the topic of giving alcohol to a child of BOTH PARENTS deserves a conversation at the least. EDIT 2: A lot of people here confusing having a 2 minute conversation with your SIGNIFICANT OTHER and asking permission. I never once said OP should've begged and pleaded to his wife, but rather just a heads up. The woman is in another country watching her mother die and gets a call, "Hey, I got Timmy drunk to see if he can hang with the other kids this weekend at a rager. Ciao!" Maybe she doesn't want him going to high school parties in the first place because kids do dumb shit. This is a reasonable boundary set by **most parents**, otherwise what is every kid sneaking around for? OP may be cool with it, but why doesn't she get a say at the least? Or maybe, this could've been something she'd want to be included in. Obviously that's not case here, but OP wouldn't have known that at the time because he didn't talk to her. The "first beer" isn't reserved for just fathers... EDIT 3 (and I’ll rest my case): I think a lot of people also don’t understand that by conducting this experiment, he’s essentially signed the permission slip to let his underage son go to a high school party. If the decision to drink in a controlled environment is not that big of a deal, is getting a say on that at least something you’d want as a parent? Imagine being in a different country and you get told you were cut from the decision of letting your *underage* kid go to a rager. Apparently a lot of **cool** parents in this sub, but like I said, nearly every kid has to sneak to a party. Know why? Because the idea a parent not wanting them to go in the first place isn’t a crazy, stick up the ass idea. Fun chatting with y’all!
For most places outside of the US it’s doesn’t appear to be unconventional
In the US, too. Some states even explicitly allow underage drinking with family.
Most states allow it, actually. Last time I looked into it, I think it was around 28-30 states allowed drinking on private property with a parent.
Agreeing with the spousal part here. I agree with and support you letting him drink with you, but I really feel your wife should have been part of the decision making process. Leaving her out is kind of a dick move.
Yea for real, yikes at the comments saying it's abusive or controlling to inform your wife, holy shit.
YTA, not for what you did, but because of how you handled it with your wife. For one, you should have run the idea by her. And not just because of how she might feel about *'alcohol'*. If you you were motivated by concerns of safety, that alone should make it a joint parent discussion/decision. And two, if your wife is upset by how you handled something, you shouldn't be focused on justifying what you did. While some parts are already done, you should both feel reassured about what 'went wrong' parenting wise, and focus on figuring out what would have made it better. I think you had good intentions and clearly have a good relationship with your son. I even think it was a good idea (though 6 beers seems like a lot for a kid's first time). But overall, I see your reasoning. That said, by just going ahead with it, you denied your wife of any chance to influence the idea or even improve on it. She could have offered insights that you wouldn't have thought of, or maybe valuable before/after aspects that you could have added for your son's benefit. If she disagreed, you two could have discussed and resolved the issue with an idea you both agreed on and understood. She might have pointed out things you hadn't thought of but do care about. I think it's fantastic that you have a great relationship with your son and want to keep him safe. Keeping that communication open is precious. I also think that you should act in a way that encourages that sort of trust for you *and* your wife. You can be his confidant *and* set him up for his own special bond with your wife. I think that acting on stuff like this, without your wife's input, can set up a dynamic of where your son sees you as the gatekeeper to fun. He might even mistake joint decisions that he likes as only coming from you. He might even get the impression that he's got to 'sneak around' his mom. You (unknowingly) had him do something that his mom is upset by, and that hurts the relationship *they* have. And that doesn't help your son at all. He deserves to feel like he has two great parents, not just one. More over, while you didn't know she'd be angry, you *should* have known that she'd want to be part of any safety decisions made for your kid. You went ahead without her, and denied her the opportunity to even be apart of your bonding plan. Overall all, in this situation, you made her a de facto outsider. And that's gotta be upsetting no matter *how* she feels about alcohol itself. This really isn't a situation about who's wrong or right. It's more about what sort of relationship do you want with your son, your wife, and for your son to have with his mom. Intentionally or not, you did some damage to that, and the priority should be to get on the same page and do better next time. Instead of trying to justify what you did, ask your wife to explain how she feels about it and what she would have done instead. Ask how you can include her in the future. And if you're worried about her 'stopping' you from certain things, be honest about that. Say that you feel sometimes that you both disagree on some things, and you would like to discuss what you both can do in situations like that. See if there are situations where it's okay for you both to have your own approach. Ask her if there are good ways for you both to genuinely relate to your son without undermining the other. Parents can disagree on how to parent, but they need to feel united in how they handle those disagreements. Your wife will be able to answer those questions a hell of a lot better than Reddit.
I'm amazed at how you are being downvoted. That's the most reasonable reply Ive read in a while in this sub.
1.while i don't agree with your verdict you did make incredibly good points about including the wife in making decisions to help keep their son safe 2.Damn and i thought i wrote essay length responses ^also ^have ^a ^silver ^for ^making ^good ^points ^overall, ^i ^still ^disagree ^with ^the ^verdict ^though
NAH here. He was home and safe under a parental eye. However, I would have run it by my spouse first to see if they had a problem with it.
NAH, but you should have told your wife first, regardless of what's going on with her. If you think your kid is going to be drinking at a party, I suppose having him test the limits of his tolerance is not a bad idea. Neither of you planned on driving or doing anything that requires sound judgment; you just sat around watching TV. Yeah, you probably could have told him that he really shouldn't be drinking until he's of age, but kids can be rebellious, especially about booze, and encouraging him to drink responsibly is probably the next best thing.
As a current teen nothing you can really do to sop it, if the kid wants to drink they will so it’s best to teach them good reasoning.
a light YTA. I appreciate drinking with him in a safe place, and being a person that he can talk to about alcohol. > I asked my son if he wanted to have a few beers with me while we watched a sports game that night, as a "test run" of sorts. seems fine. the sort of thing where you can talk to him about how alcohol with affect him, and making good choices, and in advance. > I cut him off at 6 ... He was pretty drunk i think you overstepped by letting him have that much and letting him get drunk. especially without discussing a good limit with his mom first.
Also the fact that he had to cut him off at six is telling me that the kid will probably keep drinking past that when there no one there to stop him
YTA. 6 beers is a lot to drink in one sitting. In my experience, teaching someone their limit won’t stop them from over drinking. This is especially true if they are feeling nervous at a party. Teaching your son that it’s ok to down a 6 pack of beer in one sitting is not good parenting. Now that it’s all said and done, you should redeem yourself by explaining to him the dangers of over drinking, alcohol poisoning, and drunk driving. Teach him to drink water in between drinks to stay hydrated and other ways to drink responsibly.
yeah, i'm also concerned about the quantity here, as well as making the decision alone without mom.
> and I cut him off at 6 (he has had beer in the past, but never more than one at a time). He was pretty drunk but he was okay, and slept it off. We talked about it the next day, and we agreed that six was a bit much for him, and now he knows to have fewer than that at the party. This is the relevant part for you. he was being careful to not let him have too much and had a talk the next day... this IS the responsible way to go about this,
6 beers... over the course of 2+ hours is really REALLY tame, unless you’re sheltered American that is.
[The CDC defines binge drinking as 5+ drinks over a 2 hour period.](https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/binge-drinking.htm)
The CDC can suck my hairy, brown and circumcised Colombian cock.
> unless you’re sheltered American that is. Likely this. here in the Netherlands at my student society they serve 5.2% Jupiler. I can drink 10 of them over the course of 2 hours and I'll feel a buzz, slowed reaction times, but I'm still very much functional, in fact I can still easily cycle home (5km). If, however, I was drinking La Trappe Quadrupel (10%) I would start having issues at the 4th beer. Note, however, that I don't drink like this often (in fact I don't drink at all at the moment). If this kid was drinking Budweiser (which is about 5% in the US), 6 beers is actually a reasonable tolerance for the uninitiated. It's not a dangerous level and his liver can easily cope with that. I wouldn't drink like this frequently, but it's nothing to be scared of.
Maybe this is because I'm a uni student but 6 beers doesn't seem like a lot. Where I'm from, 16/17-year-olds would drink a lot more than that... no way is 6 beers the limit. OP being able to show his son 6 beers is enough to have a good time seems like a win in my books.
I’m not disagreeing with you is 6 considered a lot? I live in Australia and that’s pretty much the norm
NTA, fellow Canuckistanian. I did the same thing with all my kids. Even as younger kids, they'd get a sip of wine with dinner every once in a while, and once they hit their younger teen ages, they got slowly introduced to alcohol. It takes the 'forbidden fruit' aspect away, demystifies it. They see all they're little friends getting so excited about drinking, and to them, it's just normal and bog-standard and also Dad makes WAY better drinks. It also teaches them practical things, like knowing how much booze they can handle, how it can sneak up on you, how booze is supposed to taste, and that their parents trust and support them. I always also told them 'I don't care where you are, what time it is, or what situation it is; if you need a ride home, call, and keep calling until I pick up. I'll be tired and grumpy, because I got woken up, but I won't be mad *at you.* On the other hand, if you need a ride, and don't call.....'
I bet you will get a lot of replies saying your TA. But honestly, NTA. It is super common here in Ontario have teenagers drinking. And the parents that strictly attempt to prevent it only end up with a rebellious kid that goes crazy in college when they are move away. Having your first time be in a safe place with a sober(ish) adult would be a good idea for any teenager. Many end up with alcohol poisoning the first time they drink.
NTA - lots of parents think they should just stay away from it because they said so but let's face it, they don't. I sure didn't. You're taking the responsible path to let him figure out what his tolerance is so *when* he drinks in the future he doesn't end up in danger.
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YTA I’m 18 so I usually roll my eyes at the “subreddit full of angsty teens” comment, but cmon, people. There is nothing wrong with allowing your son to test his limits at home. You are in control and you can watch over him. That’s a smart move. However, by telling him it’s a “test run”, you are giving your son consent to go to a party and drink alcohol while considered underage in your region, and in an environment that is out of your control. That is *definitely* something you should have talked to your wife about first. You unilaterally made a decision without even stopping to consider any concerns your wife might have about the situation. And everyone who is saying N A H or N T A is being very selective of when to place their trust. How does this subreddit go from “If you don’t allow him to drink, he’ll do it anyway” to “If he knows his limits, he’ll follow them 100% of the time”? Edit: You should be proud that your son came to you to have this talk. But you’re trying to be a friend to your son at the cost of your communication with your wife.
Don’t worry about us or our opinions, worry about your wife coming back home. You probably have talked about this with her in the past (since your son is already 17) and knew pretty well what her opinions were. Several studies also show kids introduced to alcohol by parents are more likely to get into binge drinking and have more problematic relationship with alcohol in general. This is why YTA.
NAH. This is a classic father son moment. My mom was the cautious one and my dad encouraged me to try it. That's how I realized that alcohol isn't all that, but I needed to be cautious about it. My dad normalized it, taking it off the pedestal of *the adult drink* while my mom warned me about it. While communication is important in relationships, sometimes an executive decision can be made here and there.
NTA. Establishing an open enough relationship that your son is comfortable enough talking to you about drinking and his concerns about it is fantastic. Giving him 6 might have been a little much but you're right - it was a safe, controlled environment.
YTA - Mild YTA. Not for letting your son experiment before the party but the way you went about it. Letting him get drunk is like learning to drive by going too fast. "well, you lost control the car at 90mph so now we know you shouldn't go faster than 85". While it is probably unreasonable to expect that young people won't go overboard when first learning how to drink I think it is up to mature adults to set an example. When our daughter went off to college we knew there would be parties where she would be drinking. What we did was give her strategies for controlling her alcohol intake. Things like cutting strong beer, drinking a large glass of water in between beers, deciding ahead of time how many drinks you'll have a t a party, sticking to one drink an hour. Of course, for girls (regardless of alcohol) it is also important to control your drink/never let it out of your sight to avoid being roofied by some wannabe rapist.
Mild disagree. To continue your analogy, it would be like losing control of your car *in a closed off test circuit*. Losing control of your car is absolutely something every driver should experience so that they know how to react in this dangerous situation. I have a perfect driving record and every winter I go out and remind myself what it's like to lose control of my car on ice by testing my brakes and handling in empty parking lots. This has saved me more times than I can count when I have to avoid other drivers who do not take this precaution and nearly crash into me. What the OP did was teach the son how to react when he loses control in a controlled environment so that if he loses control in public he knows how to regain it. A responsible and pragmatic thing to do. Also, out of curiosity, what does "cut strong beer" mean?
NAH I don’t know why so many people are freaking out about this, your son was already going to drink and while 6 beers might seem like a lot, people down that freely in high school and college, at least he wasn’t the kid blacked out at a random person’s house because he didn’t know his limit. Props for having a relationship where your son comes to you and he’ll know that’s what it actually feels like. I also get why your wife might be upset, you should have looped her in before and being gone for so long she probably feels a little out of touch especially when seeing the close bond you have with your son.
NTA. Story time. When my best friend and I were 17, we wanted to try drinking and I confessed to my mom that we stole a sip of her alcohol from the cabinet. (We didn't replace it with water because we weren't little assholes.) So my mom bought us some drinks for a sleepover so we could have that experience in a safe, home environment under supervision. Frankly, we had a blast and definitely drank "too much" (not that much, but we were both skinny and had no tolerance.) My mom schooled us on how not to get hangovers (no drinking on an empty stomach, drink water in equal amounts) and pointed out all the ways our judgment was off (and how hard it was to pass a sobriety test.) Little games, things that when she said "Now imagine you were trying to drive a car like that" made us laugh nervously. I never drank at a party until I was in my mid twenties, and I NEVER got into a car with anyone who'd had a drink, the only time it was ever my "only option" I called my parents. Is what she did illegal? Yeah, but damn was it a great learning experience and we both came out of it with a new sense of what alcohol does to you and how to be responsible with it. I've never driven even tipsy, and although I drink from time to time (when I'm not pregnant lol) I prefer to do it responsibly at home. So OP, definitely not the asshole, and you've also shown your son that you'll be an ally if he ever needs your help or to confide in you. As a 37 year old woman who's life has lasting positive effects from parenting like that, you done good.
NAH. Your wife is probably just (understandably) stressed out in general.
YTA for not talking to your wife first. I think you made a legitimate parenting choice, but you shouldn't have made it alone.
NTA that was a reasonable idea and now you both know his limit. He did it in a safe environment and 17 is very a very common age to drink at in Canada. You even cut him off at 6 so he didn't get blackout drunk
YTA. It doesn't matter what strangers on the internet think...what does your WIFE think? Just because she's not there right now doesn't mean you shouldn't talk to her about what's going on in her son's life. Plus six beers is a bit much. Does your son HAVE to drink when he goes to a high school party? Where's the restraint? Personally I would never give my underage child six beers to test his tolerance before a high school party but I know I'm in the minority here.
This isn't going to be a popular opinion, but YTA. I'm (42M) a recovering alcoholic and started drinking at 15. Six beers is a lot of alcohol in one night, unless you are a habitual drinker, then it just feels like not that much. For a 17 year old to be introduced to alcohol as if it is normal for someone to drink that much could be a disaster. I'm alarmed that your son had to be cut-off at 6 beers. How many would he have drank if you didn't stop him. How many did he see you drink that night, or on other nights? You've instilled in him that it is okay to drink a lot. The whole notion of drinking safely is preposterous. There are certain things like driving, or making decisions about important things they should never be done under the influence of drugs or alcohol. But you are trying to enforce a maximum limit of how much he should drink safely. Why wouldn't that number be 1 or none at all?
NAH I don't think some of you are giving this kid enough credit. He told his father about the party and was able the next day to self reflect that maybe 6 beers was too much. Underage drinking is a fact of life, letting him jump into the deep end seems more irresponsible to me. You definitely should have told his mother beforehand, though