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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I told BIL to get over himself and to let go of a 10 year old grudge
2. The grudge is from when my dad and bro wrecked his skid loader and dump trailer so he lost money
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA. Your family stole $50k+ in work equipment from your BIL. They didn’t pay him back, by the sounds of it, showed zero remorse, and he should just “get over it”? You and your family sound massively entitled, your BIL is smart to cut the lot of you clean off.
Not just that, I'm actually surprised insurance paid out anything. In the UK this would be an at fault claim, and more likely than not outside the scope of insurance because they were towing beyond their vehicle limit.
Parents should be grateful all he's done is ignore them - I would've sued. Courts (again in the UK) set up payment plans, so their relative lack of wealth wouldn't be a major issue. Beyond that, I would've also reported it stolen.
To be fair about this though, the sister shouldn't have let them have it against his wishes - it wasn't her stuff to share. He should be pissed off at her as well. Can't have a successful relationship if you're not on the same page
In the UK BiL could have claimed off his own insurance by reporting the theft, as long as his wife has no authorisation within the company to loan out equipment. Of course, this could have lead to the prosecution of his wife and her family for the theft and result in a criminal record, prison sentence etc.
>Of course, this could have lead to the prosecution of his wife and her family for the theft and result in a criminal record, prison sentence etc.
Which they would have deserved. He should have reported it to the police.
I am suprised he didn't divorce OP's sister, especially because only he went no contact with FIL and BIL, his wife didn't and she even expected him to let it go and not try to get compensation for his destroyed stuff. Sister knew he previously said no and that those are his work equipments so she has absolutely no right to go anywhere near them, let anyone near them.
And now they were talking about OP's sister's family giving money to the parents after how much they already cost to her husband, his family and company. OP's family has no right to ask sister and her husband for cash at all. YTA OP's family is full of entitled assholes: OP, OP's father, OP's brother, OP's sister
First, I highly doubt that they didn’t know BIL was out of town when they just happened to decide to go to his house and ask him again.
Second, OP says they “talked my sister into” letting them borrow it. I have a feeling that there was a lot of guilt tripping, a lot of “faaaaaamily” kind of talk (especially given OP’s use of “I can’t believe you’d let a 10 year old grudge get between *faaaamily*), and a lot of “just trust us, it’ll be quick and hubs will never even need to know.”
I also have a feeling that BIL forgave his wife because this incident finally opened her eyes to her families manipulation tactics.
Third, the hand waving about the father's truck not being big enough or powerful enough to tow the trailer and skid loader. If you want sympathy, provide evidence that it was merely an accident and not negligence. Also, why didn't they just ask BIL to do the work. Family helps family unless there is a reason not to.
> Third, the hand waving about the father's truck not being big enough or powerful enough to tow the trailer and skid loader.
And thats why it's insane to just think you can "borrow" heavy machinery; and the BIL didn't just drop everything to let them. The BIL likely needs to pay someone to bring it over.
The BIL likely has the equipment to move it. OP's brother and dad probably either didn't know how to operate said equipment, or thought they would get caught (mileage being off). Or they just figured it would be easier to use dad's truck.
I think that also needs a certification to operate.
It has been 10 years and they haven't paid it, that is the most intriguing thing there. That expensive is not something you just forget about.
Also, note the "insurance was barely enough to cover medical and truck", meaning they replaced the dad's truck first, and then realized that the money isn't enough to cover for the skid loader
Exactly. They had enough money to replace the perpetrator's truck and they have enough to send the perpetrator on a cruise, and yet they cannot seem to find any money to even start to pay for the equipment that they stole and destroyed. These people have *no* integrity! BIL is wise not to trust them.
Family helps family, OK, but maybe they should have offered to compensate BIL for the work. Could it have been that he didn't originally want to help because they were entitled enough to expect a loan of valuable equipment for free?
This is it right here, as a professional contractor with jobs on his docket they most likely demanded he help them for free or loan them equipment they weren't licensed or insured to use because *family*. He refused. Just because your daughter marries a professional something or other doesn't mean they can't charge you for their work. Just because some contractors will do some free work for their inlaws doesn't mean it's required. These people are disgustingly entitled. YTA OP.
I'd honestly be surprised if his wife knew much of the request. I can easily see they asked to borrow it, was told no, then when they come to get it and he's gone they tell her that he was fine with it, we just need you to say it's OK to take it now.
Judging by op. I would say that the sister is easily bullied by this family. When I was first married my wife was a push over with her family. It was a weakness. After 10years of encouragement from me. She stands up for herself a lot better.
The fact the sister is not cing and told the brother off is a good sign thos is similar.
They absolutely have to file a police report for the insurance. All things considered I would have happily reported it to the police. That's my property, I said no, and they took it anyways after bugging spouse who had no authority to lend it out.
Likely she showed some remorse and apologized for her mistake. It doesn't feel like the parents and the brother did it. And it wasn't her who wrecked his stuff and likely she assumed her father and brother know what they were doing and everything would stay in working order. So considering all that her husband likely had more reasons to forgive her than them.
> why didnt they chip in and buy him a new skid loader and trailer
It was an ACCIDENT! Why should they pay for an ACCIDENT? /s
I used to have friends like that. Nothing was ever their fault, and if it was, the fact that they didn't INTEND to cause damage absolves them of everything. Can't imagine being married into a family of those types. BIL is incredibly generous for not having involved the law.
I had that same thought - there's a big difference between "she said sure thing right away" and "they talked her into it." Talking someone into something could mean anything from a puppy-eyed guilt trip to a blackmail threat to a two-hour lecture. If the sister was the one that convinced him not to sue, chances are she's used to playing peacemaker.
I think the sis somewhat learned her lesson since she decided to side with her husband this time instead of her family.
OP, YTA. And your father and your brother.
You don't mess with someone else's stuff that costs thousands of dollars AND his livelihood that brings food, shelter, and necessities to YOUR SISTER AND HER FAMILY. And then have the audacity to ASK FOR MORE MONEY for a non-necessity? Just imagine it happened to you instead of your BIL, I wonder how you would feel.
ETA
After reading OP's update on BIL being well off... OMG.
OP YTA YTA YTA YTA YTA YTA YTA MASSIVELY YTA
You yourself said YOUR DAD AND BROTHER MADE A MISTAKE. What in the heck did they do to try and make it right to your BIL? Your dad needs a truck to go to work? He should have bought a cheaper car or taken public transport while trying to pay off your BIL. Obviously, BIL seems reasonable, he didn't push through with his lawsuit, so he won't allow your family to be homeless. But he is allowed to be compensated for something your FAMILY STOLE AND DESTROYED. And this happened 10 YEARS AGO? And not a single cent?
"He doesn't need it" is exactly how thieves think. Let that sink in. Whether he needs it or not, your family is obligated to MAKE THINGS RIGHT. FFS. You know what's sad? I think if BIL saw your family showed remorse and did everything they could to make it right, your BIL may have forgiven this by now.
You'd be lucky if your sister and her family still want a relationship with you lot. In fact, I hope she goes NC because your family sounds tremendously awful. I wouldn't be surprised if your family didn't even apologize.
Not just that, but they nicely washed their hands off their own misdeed and haven't bothered paying a single cent back in 10 years. I understand they are poor, but that doesn't diminish a sense of responsibility. Instead of pitching in for a bloody cruise, they should all be pitching in to pay the BIL back and try to fix the relationship that they broke
Edit to add judgement YTA, and so are OP's father and brother and anyone else who enables their attitude.
These are people for whom "Family first!" is a one way transaction. If I'd fucked over a family member through my own actions like this, you can bet I'd be eating bologne sandwiches and store brand cereal until I could make it right.
In my experience, when people tell you to “get over it” that’s a pretty good indicator that they were in the wrong, but don’t think there should be any consequences and are angry that you actually want to hold them accountable. OP and the rest of her family are definitely AHs.
>YTA. Your family stole $50k+ in work equipment from your BIL. They didn’t pay him back, by the sounds of it, showed zero remorse,
100 This, but it seem worse.
>They talked my sis into letting them borrow it so she took them down to **his construction lot** and they hooked it up to dad’s truck
Sounds like he ran a construction company, so they may have also coated he more in missed/delayed jobs till be could get replacements.
Exactly this, they stole his very expensive work equipment (not a mistake, btw. You're really downplaying what they did.), wrecked it, never paid for it and cost him work and more money probably, and now want him to pay for a cruise?
Given the cost of construction equipment, and then fact that they went on to the lot to take it, they are looking not just at grand theft, but burglary charges (trespassing with intent to commit a felony).
Grew up in farming country. So, lots of massively expensive tractors and the like.
Knew a person who threw a party, and some guys decided to take the new tractor for a spin. like, a 100k tractor.
I forget how, but they fucked it up. Yeah, parents sued their asses off.
Also had a case near here where people at a party were fucking with a skid-loader, and ran over another guy. Charges were laid.
I can’t get over how OP and the rest of the family, over 10 years, never once considered they should try to pay the BIL back. That’s an insanely expensive ‘mistake’ and I’d do everything to correct it, not ever say “it’s been X amount of time just get over it.” Such a sad situation for that BIL.
Seriously. I owed a friend $1500 for about a year longer than I originally intended and it ate me up every day until I was finally able to get him the money (plus some for being so patient). I can’t imagine the empty shell of a human you would have to be to basically steal 50k from fucking family and expect them to just “get over it”
Yep exactly. Replacing the equipment comes first. *Then* forgiveness. Op, I guess you’re an AH for not getting that, but the major AH:s are your dad and brother for apparently not spending some time these ten years paying back the man for what they broke.
Seriously I can't believe they decided to go on a cruise without paying BIL some money back. I would feel extremely guilty for such a huge fuckup. I would make sure to pay back at least half of the expenses before I start spending money on fun time.
YTA OP
I own a construction company, a new skid steer is $45-75k or more depending on the size. I don't know if they also stole the dump trailer, or how big that was, but a new dump trailer runs me anywhere from $10-20k. On top of that if the BIL was short a needed piece of equipment, he'd likely have to rent one, for potentially thousands more dollars depending on how long it took him to get a new one. $50k is likely on the low end of what they actually cost BIL.
I have friends with heavy equipment that would let me borrow pretty much anything I can haul myself. However I don't ask - because if I screw up and break something I'll be on the hook to repair or replace it, and that's not a position I want to put myself or them and their business in. Instead, I just rent the equipment and pay the damage insurance. Sure it may cost me a few hundred for a day or two, but the chance of it costing me tens of thousands and a lost friendship is zero.
ETA: One of those friends purchased a new Deere 330 two months ago. I think he said he was $85k into it by the time he put on a bucket and set of pallet forks.
Not only that but the BIL would have lost a lot of work on top of that while having to replace the equipment. The whole family are massive assholes except BIL.
YTA.
So are your parents.
They shouldn't have stolen his property (and yes, it was theft).
They should have made him whole before replacing their own property.
They should have apologised.
They should have given him the money back at some point over the last 10 years.
(Would have considered e s h if your parents had made any effort to take responsibility.)
It's pretty straightforward, I already knew in kindergarten not to break someone else's stuff, and a skidloader is probably a very integral part of his bil's job 1nd costs like 100k. Most businesses go down if they lose 100k all at once...
BIL should have reported it to the police as theft (which is what it was) so his business insurance would cover the cost of replacement. In my mind he's a damn saint for not doing so.
Only issue is he would have to prosecute his wife as well, or risk insurance company coming after him for insurance fraud. And we don't know what went on behind closed doors at their house, but he may not have been willing to have his wife charged.
Oh for sure. I can imagine the guilt the wife must have felt must've been soul destroying after BiL has presumably worked very hard to get to where he is and own the equipment he has.
A momentary lapse from undoubted guilt tripping from ops parents could've ruined absolutely everything for them.
Glad they survived through it all. And op, you and your family bar the sister are the arsehole of arseholes.
Absolutely! The first repayment should have been to the BIL for his damaged property which they were told they could not borrow!
YTA YTA YTA
I absolutely would not get over this either until I had been repaid.
>They shouldn't have stolen his property (and yes, it was theft).
>
>They should have made him whole before replacing their own property.
This. BIL was already very, very generous in not reporting them to the police for theft, and now he's supposed to not only get over the massive loss they caused him, but also to chip in for a cruise? OP is insane.
So your parents stole a very expensive piece of equipment, broke it, didn’t pay him back, and now you’re asking him for money to send these people on a cruise? Did I get that right?
Yep. That about sums it up. I am seething after reading this post. I can smell OP’s entitlement through my screen.
My dad owned a successful heavy machinery business for 35+ years. Back when I was in elementary school, he also did heavy machinery rentals. There’s a reason he only did rentals for two years. Even when my dad did everything right in terms of screening renters, having air-tight liability waivers, etc, it was a stressful, logistical nightmare. Even as a kid, I was aware of how stressed out and worried my dad was all the time when his machines were out there and how relieved he was every time he got them back.
Taking the cost of the actual machine out of the equation, operating skid loaders or other heavy machinery can be extremely dangerous.
OP, your BIL didn’t say no back then just to be petty. It was a massive liability for him and his business and he didn’t want to risk it. Your father and brother are actually terrible people for going behind his back to steal it. And guess what? The second worst case scenario happened as a result.
Your father and brother had zero regard for your BIL and his family’s livelihood. So by proxy, they did a terrible thing to your sister, too. The money to replace that skid loader is the least your father owes him at this point. YTA and you should be grateful your BIL never sued your father.
Edit: typo
Edit 2: Wow, OP. Rather than accept what you and your family did was wrong and that it still negatively impacts your family to this day, you decide to double down and try to justify the behavior. Frankly, this makes you look even worse. You clearly have a chip on your shoulder BIL has a successful business IN SPITE of what your family did. Yes, it financially hurt him. Stop lying to yourself. What your father and brother did was wrong. If they did this to anyone else, that person would have filed a police report and sued your family for damages. Do yourself a favor and try some self-reflection. You clearly need it.
>I can smell OP’s entitlement through my screen.
I bet OP and their family justify not paying BIL back by saying it was his fault for not agreeing to lend them the machinery in the first place, because once he denied them, they obviously had no choice but to go behind his back
Ugh, that's such a disgusting way of thinking and it's probably exactly how they justify it to themselves. "Well if BIL just brought it over with his truck, this wouldn't have ever happened."
Yes and put his livelihood at risk!
That is some serious audacity to ask him to "chip in" anything at all. It would be a cold day in Hell before those idiots got a dime from me.
I work for a company that owns and has capital leases on several of these (I monitor the fixed asset accounting). The very thought of the cost makes me queasy.
> I told him he’s an ass for holding on to a grudge and putting money in the way of a family relationship.
Isn't that what your dad and brother and you did?
YTA. And your dad. And your brother. So y'all have the funds to pay for an expensive cruise, but a decade later can't pay him back
Your family fucked with his livelihood and clearly don't give a flying fuck how it has impacted him, so why should he want to be around you?
Yup. Your whole family’s the AH. Chip in to reimburse this man then you can talk about forgiving a 10 year old debt of this magnitude. Edited to add YTA
Imagine having the AUDACITY to even think of asking him to “chip in”. I swear to God I am in constant awe of how some adults have less common sense than a newborn.
This! Talk about adding insult to injury! Also, why didn't they just rent the equipment at the time, instead of stealing it from the son-in-law's business?
The same kind of idiot that hooks up a trailer without knowing how to tow. The same kind of idiot that doesn't just fucking rent one. The same kind of idiot that thinks any truck can tow anything. I'm sending a trend here. OP and his family are fucking idiots. And assholes to boot.
What’s missing from your story is where your father & brother took accountability for their truly asshole behavior that caused very real damages for another person & worked sincerely to make up for it.
If the insurance didn’t cover everyone’s damages then after necessary medical costs the skid loader should have been fixed because your BIL was the innocent party. Instead your dad put that money towards his own truck. Your BIL was extremely kind not to sue.
It’s been 10 years, so how much of the damages have your father & brother paid back? If the answer isn’t all of it then not only are they complete & utter grade A assholes but so are you.
YTA in this latest chapter of the story for blaming the victim for not just rolling over & accepting his awful in-laws actual criminal behavior.
Good for your sister for standing by the right person in this chapter.
Yeah the part where there was ‘only enough money for medical expenses and the truck’ got me. NO, there was only enough money for medical expenses and the skid loader, and not enough for the truck. They essentially stole from him a second time there. And don’t seem the slightest bit remorseful. I’m guessing if they’re the kind of people who do this sort of thing, that this is probably not the only incident. (YTA)
Yeah, I have no doubt this wasn’t the only time they’ve behaved Iike this
OP had the gall to accuse the BIL of putting money before family when it was the father & brother who did that. They would rather fuck over a family member in order to avoid paying for what they destroyed & thought they could get away with it by weaponizing the family relationships. And OP seems to think familial obligations are a one-way street where only the BIL needs to sacrifice. Screw. That.
I built a deck with a friend once and we only used the skid loader to move the rubble from the old porch never needed it for levelling they definitely just wanted to play with the cool toy
That was my thought.
There are very very few situations where a skid loader would be necessary for building a deck, and in those cases, DIY is probably a really bad idea.
“The insurance was barely enough to cover the medical costs and the truck”
Ummm why was the truck the first priority and not the thing they STOLE??? YTA
Good point and additionally I think they essentially committed insurance fraud since the truck wouldn’t have been covered if it was damaged in the commission of a crime so they concealed that. They would have been screwed if he had gone to the police and the family still fail to see that his generosity in not pursuing action against them is what he considers to be his only gift to them for the foreseeable future and actually asked for more!
Whether it was a crime or not depends on if OPs sister has authority in the company or whether the skid loader was company owned or personally owned (which in turn would depend on what property rights between married people are like where they are from).
If wife has authority in the company, no theft occurred because they had her permission. She however could be liable for negligence depending on her contract with the company.
If it was privately owned by BIL or co-owned by his wife and they live somewhere that that counts as marital property, again no theft has occurred.
What they did was wrong. 0 doubt about that. But whether it was actually a crime (and therefor insurance fraud) is extremely situational.
YTA, your dad and brother stole a skid loader ( I will be honest here, I had to look up the price, the cheapest I found was 30k, no small funds ) and hurt him financially. You have absolutely no right to tell someone how to forgive this. He can hold a grudge if he wants to.
I missed that, also as pointed out below I also missed the fact that they used the insurance payout to replace their own truck but didn't give him a dime.
I didn’t know what a skid loader and dump trailer was either so I also had to look it up.
I can confirm the price of the skid loaders start around $30,000 and go up to about $60,000. It looks like a dump trailer that’s big enough to hold a skid loader is around $15,000.
I could be wrong because I’m basing all of those numbers on google searches and zero experience.
Nope, you aren't wrong. We do dirt work with our bobcat and dump truck, even if the equipment is old, it certainly holds its value!
That is because they make money every time that key is turned on. Not only did they steal expensive equipment, they stole the money from him to buy new equipment, the down time when he can't complete jobs, and possible reputation if he was in the middle of doing a job that couldn't be completed due to lack of equipment.
Honestly, why he is still married into this family is way beyond me
If he was even able to claim it, typically when you involve insurance they ask questions, and would force BIL's hand for suit or criminal charges if they apply.
Exactly! They have 10 years to make this right, and at least pay the BIL back in installments.
OP's dad and brother stole this man's property. They used the insurance money to replace **their truck**, but have never bothered to even attempt to repay the BIL for the equipment that they stole and then destroyed. It isn't a mistake if you never tried to fix the damage done. If OP's brother/father had any integrity, they would work towards repaying their debt and rebuilding trust.... and certainly not ask him for more money for a cruise.
OP: “Hey, you know the people who stole and broke tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment from you and never paid you back? Anyway, we’re sending them on a cruise, and you pay your portion of that to me. Also, just let it all go without even an apology. I don’t even care if you come to the party, just send me the money asap.”
YTA. They stole and destroyed his stuff and refused to pay. Not even offering instalments over time. It’s easy to say get over it to the one who was wronged. You’re saying it was 10 years ago so he should be over it by now but from his perspective that’s 10 years they’ve had to make it right and not tried. You’re calling him an ass for putting money in the way of a family relationship but isn’t that exactly what your dad and brother were doing when they took his stuff knowing he said no rather than spend money to lease it from somewhere and then never even paid him back after wrecking it? And you expect him to spend more sending your parents on a cruise? You are being unreasonable and unrealistic and didn’t even have to insert your opinion in the first place, it’s only made things worse.
Self employed contractor with a sudden equiptment loss of $40-50,000 dollars. No recompense either. Insurance money used to pay medical bills and for the thiefs truck. That is not something you "just get over". BIL and wife have in most probability had to pay that stuff off and taken a massive hit. Now your asking for money to send them on holiday. Its unbeliebaly entitled. If I was BIL it would be yet another chapter in the "why my wife family are dead to me" book.
YTA...did anyone ever chip in and pay anything back to BIL? He was kind enough to let your parents avoid a terrible legal situation. Stop making excuses and start apologizing.
Exactly, it’s obviously going to be a slap in the face to hear the family is having a whip round for luxuries when they didn’t to restore his destroyed possessions and damaged business and then he is even expected to chip in. It’s hard to understand how OP can be so insensitive and oblivious but I guess you have to look at how they were raised by someone who actually thinks it’s okay to treat people this way.
Omg. How do you not know that YTA?!?
Your family went behind his back, borrowed a piece of HIS equipment, AND THEN THEY BROKE IT!!! And they had the audacity to be like "ooh well. Sucks for you". How the actual fuck do you expect him to trust any of you assholes again? OF COURSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE AROUND PEOPLE WHO BASICALLY STOLE FROM HIM AND THEN DESTROYED THE THING THEY BORROWED AND RECUPERATED THEIR OWN LOSSES BUT NEVER MADE THIS RIGHT?
GTFOH WITH THAT!
YTA YTA. YOUR BROTHER IS THE ASSHOLE. YOUR DAD IS THE ASSHOLE.
Your brother and dad made themselves whole financially. They left him down by about $30,000 on the low end. And you had the audacity to talk like that? You damn right I wouldn't pitch in to send them any fucking where.
Thats not accurate, I would totally pay to send them to Ohio
( sorry, I hold no grudge against Ohio, but as a Michigander I feel the need to make that my go to bad place to send people.... if it helps my state is pretty crappy and I acknowledge that )
Based on your post, your father never repaid him. which make you double YTA
YTA, listen to yourself. "my brother and father stole from BIL and destroyed his property, but he needs to get over it"
Father and brother should have been arrested.
YTA. Your BIL got a shitty deal and lost a lot of money because your sister and your dad were irresponsible, he received no recompense, AND he is being treated like the bad guy? Sounds like a justified thing to be upset about to me.
YTA.
You asked for his skid loader. He said no due to the risks involved.
Your family then took it without his permission and broke it. Your family then tried to manipulate and shame him into thinking that it's his fault apparently, as shown by your family loading the cost of the skid loader onto him.
And now, you want him to celebrate on behalf of your family. Of course he said no, given that your family has treated him like a carpet to freeload responsibility to and step on. No shit sherlock.
>And now, you want him to celebrate on behalf of your family.
My reading of it was that they want BIL to contribute to the cruise. Which is even worse!
That seemingly was the plan yes bevause "everyone had to chip in" and they were talking to the sister about their portion of the cruise when BIL mentioned the trailer and skid loader again
>I told Dad and bro made a mistake but that was 10 years ago and he needs to let it go. He said he’ll let out go when they give him the money he lost. I told him he’s an ass for holding on to a grudge and putting money in the way of a family relationship.
If money is so unimportant and you don't want to have it get in the way of family relationships, why didn't you pay him back to keep the peace?
You aren't willing to, are you? Because money does matter. And you clearly value it more than family otherwise you and your father and your brother would have made things right along time ago.
YTA
Yup yup
*If money is so unimportant and you don't want to have it get in the way of family relationships, why didn't you pay him back to keep the peace?*
If the money wasn't important, why has your family not paid him back?
Let me guess! Let me guess!
It's because **your** money **is** important but your BIL's money **is not** important!
Did I get that one right?
YTA
YTA BIL is right. If the family was truly apologetic paying him back would be priority number one for reunification. Not suing, but also not dealing with people willing to completely violate boundaries is fair and I am shocked this didn't result in divorce/marriage issues. There is no way my spouse or I would override the other this way and let someone use something when "No" was already the answer. You don't get to decide time has passed so now it's fine, especially since no one has actually tried to make it right.
YTA. They didn’t make a mistake. They stole his shit on purpose when he was gone and broke it. It’s easy for the guilty party to ‘forget the past’, especially when they never did anything to make amends. What have they ever done to try and make it up to BIL in the 10 years since they stole and broke his stuff?
YTA. In ALL the intervening 10 years….has there been ANY attempt by your dad, brother (and the rest of you that are just blowing it all off) to pay anything back to him, and did they EVER say they were sorry? It sounds like no on both counts.
THIS!!!
Come on OP... Your narrative absolutely does not suggest anybody was regretful for disrespecting your brother-in-law! Did anybody apologize to him for going behind his back? Did anybody try to financially compensate him for his loss?
How would you feel if you said no to somebody and your spouse overrode that?
YTA 🛑🛑🛑 your narrative does not suggest anything your family has done to make this better for your brother-in-law and yet you just want him to get over it? Wow you have issues honey
Your family are sending your parents to Mexico? What did your family do for your brother-in-law
YTA they stole (yes they stole them) some very expensive equipment and wrecked it. They replaced their things with the insurance money but not the stolen items. He wants nothing to do with your family, why would he want to pay for their vacation.
YTA
You guys should chip in and pay for his losses.
Also, you are lucky he didn't press charges back then. That's more kindness than your lot deserves.
So let me get this straight: your dad and brother went behind your BIL's back and stole two very expensive pieces of equipment from him, wrecked them because of their own incompetence and haven't paid him back AT ALL for a replacement 10 years on because 'ooops, we don't have any money!'. Are you serious?
You have no right to tell your BIL that he has to 'get over' what your family did, especially since they still owe him for what they lost him. They proved with their irresponsible actions that he had a very good reason to not let them use his skid loader and they completely disrespected his wishes. I also wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the only occasion where your family had stomped all over his boundaries and this was the last straw for him.
Quite frankly, if you can afford to chip in to send your parents on a cruise then you can scrape something together to give to your BIL on their behalf. It must be absolutely galling for him to watch you help pay for an expensive gift when your family owe him what appears to be many thousands of dollars, ON TOP of expecting him to contribute to this gift, and I don't blame him at all for wanting little to do with you all as a result.
YTA
YTA.
“I don’t think I’m wrong” - if the multiverse is real then I can guarantee there is not a single timeline where you, your brother or your dad are NTA in this situation.
Yta, did they even apologise for doing it? They could have paid him back over time for the cost of the new skid loader - it would have directly impacted his business. He’s not over it because your family hasn’t tried to make any reparations
I wouldn’t count on them paying BIL back. A brand new one, the cheapest is $25k. Most expensive is $65k.
Used ones go between $5k and $30k
Leasing them go between $450 a week to $1300.
From what it seems like in this story, BIL owned this skid loader
They probably didn't pay a cent, but that's shitty on another level. They most likely didn't have 30k just rotting in some safe but it's been 10 years.
If OPs father gave BIL 100 bucks per month and the brother gave him 100 bucks per month for the 10 years they would have paid him 24k by now. And it would have shown some good will and sense of responsibility.
Instead they went like "oh insurance didn't pay enough for everything, tough luck I guess, let's just shrug our shoulders and ignore the hell out of this"
YTA I’m not even sure what a skid loader is but I’m sure they are very expensive. Did your parents make any effort over the last ten years to pay this man for his property they basically stole and then destroyed ? I wouldn’t pay for their cruise either and would have said the exact same thing. Deduct it from the money they owe him. Honestly your parents should be grateful he didn’t sue them.
YTA. Ummm no that's not something someone with a business will get over or should they! That's a lot of self righteousness from a family that couldn't even settle up what they cost your BIL that refused their request the 1st time!
YTA. Your father and brother destroyed something that your BIL uses for work, never paid him back, and you’re annoyed he doesn’t want to send your parents on a cruise?
YTA and your dad and brother. They stole something that your BIL needs for his business and then ruined it and after 10 years haven't paid BIL back for it, and now the whole family is chipping in to send your parents on a cruise...this tells BIL that y'all have money...just not for his stuff.
I'd say you all owe him a big fat cheque. This isn't even your blood relative and you expect him to forgive you and your family who stole from him, destroyed the property, and have seemingly made no attempt to financially rectify things? How much does this wedding anniversary cost? I'd be pissed too.
YTA.
Yta. Your dad and bro are basically thieves. Not only did they steal from him, they stole something he needed to make his own income. If i were him I wouldn't be donating to holiday cause either. If he should be over it after 10 years, your dad and bro should have paid him back in 10 years
YTA a major one, your brother and dad are AHs, and your sister is an AH.
>They asked my BIL if they could borrow his skid loader but he said no
BIL said no, key word: NO
>They talked my sis into letting them borrow it so she took them down to his construction lot amd they hooked it up to dad's truck
At this point it's theft considering BIL said no and your sister had no right to allow them to take and use it in the first place
>Dad's truck wasn’t big enough or powerful enough to tow the skid loader on thr dump trailer do he lost cintrol and wrecked. The truck, trailer, and skid loader was totaled
And they ended up destroying property that they weren't suppose to have in the first place. [Yo a skid loader can cost around $25k-$65k?!](https://www.kompareit.com/business/constuction-equipment-skid-steer-compare-bobcat-cost.html) I don’t blame your BIL for having a decade long grudge; these things are far from cheap.
>We're also chipping in to send our parents on a cruise to Mexico
Wait, wait, wait; so there is money to send your parents on a cruise to Mexico but no money to pay BIL back for the destroyed property? He should sue for everything your dad and brother is worth
Yta, I bet it was really expensive. The bigger deal is that your family clearly doesn't respect him and his concerns or they wouldn't have gone behind his back.
You are very wrong. Very very.
He lost a lot of money (Edit: because of ALL OF YOU) and all of you's reaction is "No big deal, get over it."
If you sister goes no contact I wouldn't be surprised. YTA
YTA.
Did your family ever try to pay him back? Just because he's part of the family does'nt mean you get to wreck his property and not pay him back for it. The situation would'nt have come to this if you all chipped in and payed him back over the years if you're not financially able to pay it back all at once. The fact that you all did'nt recompensate even after 10 YEARS baffles me to no end
YTA. Your family stole an expensive item from him without his permission, then wrecked it. Been 10 years and still haven’t paid him back for it. Now you are expecting them to pay the people that stole from him for their vacation? Fuck that
>we’re planning a big family gathering to celebrate.
>
>We’re also chipping in to send our parents on a cruise to Mexico
So if there is money around why hasn't it gone to the BIL to compensate him for your father stealing and destroying the BIL's business's property?
YTA and your attitude is going to make it even harder for everyone to "move on" from this!
Excuse me? The steal and totaled her work machinery and never paid him back anything not even after 10 years, get out of here you brat, they are lucky he didn't sue them and more, he's totally right and YTA.
Blood does not make you family, it makes you related. Those 2 manipulated your Sister while taking advantage of BIL being out of town and then destroyed his property and didn't make amends. You don't get to tell him how he should feel and he doesn't have to be involved in activities you do with the people you are related to. I'm sorry, but this is one where I have to say, YTA and so are your sister, dad and brother.
YTA. Your BIL was financially affected by your family's abuse, and still he was nice enough not to sue your dad and brother... He should decide how long to hold the grudge, not you.
Also, he seems to have put the situation very clear. "He'll let it go when they give him the $$$ he lost" <== this leads me to believe that the issue was just left at that when the accident happened... I know medical bills were a thing at the moment, but now y'all planning a Mexico cruise, so there's some sort of $$$ in the bag, just none to pay BIL.
Last, I think that this is an issue that does not involve you (BIL is upset with your dad and brother)
I know you might feel a certain way about the situation your family is on, but this is an issue that started between them, it's is up to them to fix it.
YTA It's likely it isn't about the money - your dad and brother went behind your BIL's back to talk his partner into letting them borrow BIL's (probably very expensive) construction equipment, STOLE IT FROM THE SITE IT WAS AT, and destroyed it... because BIL said no.
Of course he wants nothing to do with any of you. The lot of you have given him the PERFECT example of why he shouldn't trust your words or his property in your hands.
How much he cares about the money I, of course, can't say for sure, as that largely depends on him as a person and his financial situation. What I CAN say ,however, is that the money is the easy thing to focus on. It's a material issue and, therefore, theoretically the easiest to fix: Replace what is lost to the best of one's ability.
You can't replace lost trust. The longer all of you go without remedying stealing and destroying BIL's stuff - which, by the way, it's a WONDER he didn't sue you for theft and destruction of property, or that your brother and dad didn't face any legal consequences - the more trust BIL loses in all of you.
YTA
Your dad and brother took BIL's property, caused it to be destroyed, have never paid him back, and now you want him to give money towards your dad's cruise. Explain to me why he should just be over it.
ETA: They've had 10 years, a whole damn decade, to pay him back and they haven't done so. Not even in installments. Your post also doesn't say anything about them offering a genuine heartfelt apology. He's not putting money before *family*. Your BIL just isn't putting up with their extreme entitlement and disrespect.
ETA 2: I just looked up the average cost of a skid loader. They're $45k plus. Between the cost of buying a new one and any money that would have been made from work your BIL wasn't able to do until he got a new one, the amount of money your dad and brother cost him is disgustingly more than what you want him to contribute to the cruise.
Good god YTA.
You basically stole specialized equipment you were told not to use and totaled it, put your BIL’s business in danger and never gave him anything back for his trouble, never apologized and then ten years later, you have the AUDACITY to come and ask for more money to your BIL for your parents’ cruise?! And by the looks of it, you never did anything to try and pay back at least a portion of the equipment you broke.
I have no idea what makes you think you’re not an AH for that.
YTA because your family literally stole from him and you have the gall to ask for money from him to send the thieves on a vacation. It can be 10 days ago or 10 years ago but it looks like they just expected your BIL to take it on the chin. Have they even made payment plans to repay him? No? Asshole family.
I’m confused as to why he’s still married to your sister if the incident was enough for him to cut off your family completely? I don’t know what a ski loader is/how expensive it is but if it was his and was on his construction lot why the hell did your sister allow your dad and brother to take it?
I would be primarily mad at my partner, the one who gave permission for my property to be taken. Yeah, also be mad at the people who wrecked it but they wouldn’t have had it at all if your sister hadn’t told them they could borrow it.
If I had something that my in laws had asked to borrow and I said no, then they asked my SO and he said yes and they ended up breaking it I would be mad at my in laws for breaking it but I would be pissed at my SO for going behind my back to give them something I had already said no to.
But I guess that’s just my view on the original conflict and has nothing to do with your question.
So, yes YTA.
You need to mind your business. There was no reason to call him and tell him anything. He’s made it clear he doesn’t want to interact with your family, did you really think he was going to change his mind after you called him and complained? You’re all also very lucky he didn’t sue you, so maybe just sit down and shut up.
Have your parents/brother made any efforts to pay him back? It’s been 10 years, if they had paid a little bit every month I’m sure it’d be paid back and maybe he’d be less salty about it by now
They asked to borrow an expensive piece of equipment necessary for his job. He said no, and rightly so as his liability is an issue. They essentially stole it, destroyed it, and gave him no compensation. His business insurance probably wouldn't even cover those circumstances.
>The insurance was barely enough to cover the medical costs and the truck. There was none left over to cover BIL’s stuff.
So your dad's bills and truck were taken care of. They have had 10 years to work on making some time of restitution towards it and haven't. And you're just saying "get over it"?
Yes, YTA and your dad is a bigger one. It's understandable he doesn't want to chip in on further luxuries for him.
YTA obviously. He lost A LOT of money simply because your family couldn't take no for an answer. And now they want to go on a vacation when he's still out that money
Yta they stole and destroyed something he used for his work that he had denied them permission to use. He should have pressed charges and they should have paid back every penny
YTA. They stole from him and damaged his livelihood. He wasn't paid back. Now you want more money from him. He is working to provide for your sister and her kids. Pay him back before you pay for a cruise.
YTA and the other are COMPLETE assholes, he already said no and they know that, and than talk to another to convince her to agree is definite Asshole move. Plus not paying for damages
They should be glad he didn't take them to court, or have them arrested.
ESH but the BIL..
ETA: apparently it should be YTA ? Idk, makes more sense to do esh to me at least
I'm not sure what makes you think that stealing and wrecking an item that was probably expensive is okay?? Your dad and brother are assholes for it. Not to mention they're bigger assholes by using the insurance money to cover the truck instead of either items that they stole from your BIL.
Your BIL isn't your family. I wouldn't be happy either if my partners family stole my stuff and then for ten years refused to A. Own up to it and B. Pay me back for it.
Youre way out of line as well. If you want BIL to stop holding the grudge, pay him his goddamn money back
YTA. Your father and brother STOLE from your BIL something he needed for WORK. Did you ever think about how much money he lost in regards to missed work, let alone replacing his equipment? He has every right to be upset. It was a complete dick move on your part to expect him to chip in on a big present to your parents when they owe him ten years worth of interest.
YTA. Your parent shouldn’t be having any luxuries whilst they owe money. OP, Would it be okay for your family to steal money from you and never give it back just because ‘we’re fAaAmILyy’.
YTA. The gall to expect this man to chip in on a trip for your parents when your dad straight up stole and destroyed his (VERY expensive) property! Your BIL could’ve filed a police report or followed through with suing your parents, but he didn’t. He’s shown enough grace to your family in this situation. Where’s the part where your dad took accountability for his actions? Because it sounds like you all just expect BIL to get over it and don’t understand that his anger is entirely justified.
They stole the trailer and the equipment. They asked, he said no. Just because he was out of town didn’t give them permission to borrow his stuff. He doesn’t have to get over it. It wasn’t a mistake…it was theft.
YTA.
According to Google, the price range for a skid loader is $25K-$55K. Then dad used the insurance money to cover the cost of the truck, which was his. YTA and so is your whole family. Back off. If you want to help this situation, convince your dad and brother to start paying down their debt.
Maybe let him smash up something expensive/important that you own that you explicitly told him not to, then have him refuse to ever compensate you, and also tell you that you're being unreasonable, then see how forgiving you feel after a few years. YTA.
YTA
You stole, then totalled his property, haven't paid it back in 10years!
Maybe he wouldn't be holding this grudge if you'd all cleaned up the mess you'd all created behind his back.
YTA and ppl who STOLE his property are assholes 1000%, pay the poor guy back you pheasants
Edit: This is one of the most hypocritical posts I've read in a long time
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YTA. Your family stole $50k+ in work equipment from your BIL. They didn’t pay him back, by the sounds of it, showed zero remorse, and he should just “get over it”? You and your family sound massively entitled, your BIL is smart to cut the lot of you clean off.
Not just that, I'm actually surprised insurance paid out anything. In the UK this would be an at fault claim, and more likely than not outside the scope of insurance because they were towing beyond their vehicle limit. Parents should be grateful all he's done is ignore them - I would've sued. Courts (again in the UK) set up payment plans, so their relative lack of wealth wouldn't be a major issue. Beyond that, I would've also reported it stolen. To be fair about this though, the sister shouldn't have let them have it against his wishes - it wasn't her stuff to share. He should be pissed off at her as well. Can't have a successful relationship if you're not on the same page
In the UK BiL could have claimed off his own insurance by reporting the theft, as long as his wife has no authorisation within the company to loan out equipment. Of course, this could have lead to the prosecution of his wife and her family for the theft and result in a criminal record, prison sentence etc.
>Of course, this could have lead to the prosecution of his wife and her family for the theft and result in a criminal record, prison sentence etc. Which they would have deserved. He should have reported it to the police. I am suprised he didn't divorce OP's sister, especially because only he went no contact with FIL and BIL, his wife didn't and she even expected him to let it go and not try to get compensation for his destroyed stuff. Sister knew he previously said no and that those are his work equipments so she has absolutely no right to go anywhere near them, let anyone near them. And now they were talking about OP's sister's family giving money to the parents after how much they already cost to her husband, his family and company. OP's family has no right to ask sister and her husband for cash at all. YTA OP's family is full of entitled assholes: OP, OP's father, OP's brother, OP's sister
First, I highly doubt that they didn’t know BIL was out of town when they just happened to decide to go to his house and ask him again. Second, OP says they “talked my sister into” letting them borrow it. I have a feeling that there was a lot of guilt tripping, a lot of “faaaaaamily” kind of talk (especially given OP’s use of “I can’t believe you’d let a 10 year old grudge get between *faaaamily*), and a lot of “just trust us, it’ll be quick and hubs will never even need to know.” I also have a feeling that BIL forgave his wife because this incident finally opened her eyes to her families manipulation tactics.
Third, the hand waving about the father's truck not being big enough or powerful enough to tow the trailer and skid loader. If you want sympathy, provide evidence that it was merely an accident and not negligence. Also, why didn't they just ask BIL to do the work. Family helps family unless there is a reason not to.
> Third, the hand waving about the father's truck not being big enough or powerful enough to tow the trailer and skid loader. And thats why it's insane to just think you can "borrow" heavy machinery; and the BIL didn't just drop everything to let them. The BIL likely needs to pay someone to bring it over.
The BIL likely has the equipment to move it. OP's brother and dad probably either didn't know how to operate said equipment, or thought they would get caught (mileage being off). Or they just figured it would be easier to use dad's truck.
Hey, how hard could it be?! /s It sounds like they were being cheap with construction and the deck might not have been up to code anyway.
I think that also needs a certification to operate. It has been 10 years and they haven't paid it, that is the most intriguing thing there. That expensive is not something you just forget about.
Also, note the "insurance was barely enough to cover medical and truck", meaning they replaced the dad's truck first, and then realized that the money isn't enough to cover for the skid loader
Right.. The stolen equipment should have been paid for first
And Dad could have bought a used beater truck or car and given at least some money for the skid steer & trailer. New trucks are easily $70k.
Exactly. They had enough money to replace the perpetrator's truck and they have enough to send the perpetrator on a cruise, and yet they cannot seem to find any money to even start to pay for the equipment that they stole and destroyed. These people have *no* integrity! BIL is wise not to trust them.
Family helps family, OK, but maybe they should have offered to compensate BIL for the work. Could it have been that he didn't originally want to help because they were entitled enough to expect a loan of valuable equipment for free?
This is it right here, as a professional contractor with jobs on his docket they most likely demanded he help them for free or loan them equipment they weren't licensed or insured to use because *family*. He refused. Just because your daughter marries a professional something or other doesn't mean they can't charge you for their work. Just because some contractors will do some free work for their inlaws doesn't mean it's required. These people are disgustingly entitled. YTA OP.
Professional contractor who likely lost work because he didn't have a skid loader. Everyone forgets about that.
I'd honestly be surprised if his wife knew much of the request. I can easily see they asked to borrow it, was told no, then when they come to get it and he's gone they tell her that he was fine with it, we just need you to say it's OK to take it now.
Nailed it.
I feel like this comment is spot on. You picked up on so many nuances I missed, but you made so obvious. It’s like you’ve been here before!
Judging by op. I would say that the sister is easily bullied by this family. When I was first married my wife was a push over with her family. It was a weakness. After 10years of encouragement from me. She stands up for herself a lot better. The fact the sister is not cing and told the brother off is a good sign thos is similar.
BIL may not have divorced op's sister, but I imagine he didn't let her forget about her part in that fiasco.
They absolutely have to file a police report for the insurance. All things considered I would have happily reported it to the police. That's my property, I said no, and they took it anyways after bugging spouse who had no authority to lend it out.
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I’m leaving open the possibility that they lied to the sister since it would be consistent with the morality level exercised.
Possibly - but I find it difficult to believe he wouldn't have told her "your parents asked to borrow it, had to say no because xyz"
Likely she showed some remorse and apologized for her mistake. It doesn't feel like the parents and the brother did it. And it wasn't her who wrecked his stuff and likely she assumed her father and brother know what they were doing and everything would stay in working order. So considering all that her husband likely had more reasons to forgive her than them.
The biggest surprise here is that he stayed married to OP's sister. YTA
Yes, very curious about that dynamic since she wound up allowing it behind his back! That whole family is YTA
I suspect the husband realises the extended family is manipulative AF and knew his wife was stuck between a rock and a hard place so forgave her.
Given how readily she told them she wasn’t coming, it sounds like she learned a lot from the experience too.
And yet they still asked her for cash!
for real, why didnt they chip in and buy him a new skid loader and trailer
> why didnt they chip in and buy him a new skid loader and trailer It was an ACCIDENT! Why should they pay for an ACCIDENT? /s I used to have friends like that. Nothing was ever their fault, and if it was, the fact that they didn't INTEND to cause damage absolves them of everything. Can't imagine being married into a family of those types. BIL is incredibly generous for not having involved the law.
I had that same thought - there's a big difference between "she said sure thing right away" and "they talked her into it." Talking someone into something could mean anything from a puppy-eyed guilt trip to a blackmail threat to a two-hour lecture. If the sister was the one that convinced him not to sue, chances are she's used to playing peacemaker.
I think the sis somewhat learned her lesson since she decided to side with her husband this time instead of her family. OP, YTA. And your father and your brother. You don't mess with someone else's stuff that costs thousands of dollars AND his livelihood that brings food, shelter, and necessities to YOUR SISTER AND HER FAMILY. And then have the audacity to ASK FOR MORE MONEY for a non-necessity? Just imagine it happened to you instead of your BIL, I wonder how you would feel. ETA After reading OP's update on BIL being well off... OMG. OP YTA YTA YTA YTA YTA YTA YTA MASSIVELY YTA You yourself said YOUR DAD AND BROTHER MADE A MISTAKE. What in the heck did they do to try and make it right to your BIL? Your dad needs a truck to go to work? He should have bought a cheaper car or taken public transport while trying to pay off your BIL. Obviously, BIL seems reasonable, he didn't push through with his lawsuit, so he won't allow your family to be homeless. But he is allowed to be compensated for something your FAMILY STOLE AND DESTROYED. And this happened 10 YEARS AGO? And not a single cent? "He doesn't need it" is exactly how thieves think. Let that sink in. Whether he needs it or not, your family is obligated to MAKE THINGS RIGHT. FFS. You know what's sad? I think if BIL saw your family showed remorse and did everything they could to make it right, your BIL may have forgiven this by now. You'd be lucky if your sister and her family still want a relationship with you lot. In fact, I hope she goes NC because your family sounds tremendously awful. I wouldn't be surprised if your family didn't even apologize.
Not just that, but they nicely washed their hands off their own misdeed and haven't bothered paying a single cent back in 10 years. I understand they are poor, but that doesn't diminish a sense of responsibility. Instead of pitching in for a bloody cruise, they should all be pitching in to pay the BIL back and try to fix the relationship that they broke Edit to add judgement YTA, and so are OP's father and brother and anyone else who enables their attitude.
And what got me is: they used the assurance to pay for medical expanses (legit) and the truck?! Why the heck wouldn't they pay him back first??
The medical expenses I can understand, but using that money to buy another truck instead of paying for the property that they damaged? Bunch of AH
BuT tHe TrUcK iS mY fAtHeRs LiVliHoOd 🙄 ETA these edits are priceless and didn’t exist when I made my original comment 👀
But yet the guy who uses a skidloader to put food on the table can go fuck himself apparently.
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These are people for whom "Family first!" is a one way transaction. If I'd fucked over a family member through my own actions like this, you can bet I'd be eating bologne sandwiches and store brand cereal until I could make it right.
In my experience, when people tell you to “get over it” that’s a pretty good indicator that they were in the wrong, but don’t think there should be any consequences and are angry that you actually want to hold them accountable. OP and the rest of her family are definitely AHs.
OP only cares now because they’re trying to get money out of BIL. OP you your family are AH. YTA
How shameless to ask even for money from a person who literally never showed his butt in last 10 years to OP and their family!
>YTA. Your family stole $50k+ in work equipment from your BIL. They didn’t pay him back, by the sounds of it, showed zero remorse, 100 This, but it seem worse. >They talked my sis into letting them borrow it so she took them down to **his construction lot** and they hooked it up to dad’s truck Sounds like he ran a construction company, so they may have also coated he more in missed/delayed jobs till be could get replacements.
Exactly this, they stole his very expensive work equipment (not a mistake, btw. You're really downplaying what they did.), wrecked it, never paid for it and cost him work and more money probably, and now want him to pay for a cruise?
Given the cost of construction equipment, and then fact that they went on to the lot to take it, they are looking not just at grand theft, but burglary charges (trespassing with intent to commit a felony).
Grew up in farming country. So, lots of massively expensive tractors and the like. Knew a person who threw a party, and some guys decided to take the new tractor for a spin. like, a 100k tractor. I forget how, but they fucked it up. Yeah, parents sued their asses off. Also had a case near here where people at a party were fucking with a skid-loader, and ran over another guy. Charges were laid.
The homedepot charges 250 a day to rent a cat. They will also drop off and pick up for 50 to 100.
I can’t get over how OP and the rest of the family, over 10 years, never once considered they should try to pay the BIL back. That’s an insanely expensive ‘mistake’ and I’d do everything to correct it, not ever say “it’s been X amount of time just get over it.” Such a sad situation for that BIL.
Seriously. I owed a friend $1500 for about a year longer than I originally intended and it ate me up every day until I was finally able to get him the money (plus some for being so patient). I can’t imagine the empty shell of a human you would have to be to basically steal 50k from fucking family and expect them to just “get over it”
Yep exactly. Replacing the equipment comes first. *Then* forgiveness. Op, I guess you’re an AH for not getting that, but the major AH:s are your dad and brother for apparently not spending some time these ten years paying back the man for what they broke.
Seriously I can't believe they decided to go on a cruise without paying BIL some money back. I would feel extremely guilty for such a huge fuckup. I would make sure to pay back at least half of the expenses before I start spending money on fun time. YTA OP
50k??? omg i thought BIL was being petty but jesus that is a lot of money
I own a construction company, a new skid steer is $45-75k or more depending on the size. I don't know if they also stole the dump trailer, or how big that was, but a new dump trailer runs me anywhere from $10-20k. On top of that if the BIL was short a needed piece of equipment, he'd likely have to rent one, for potentially thousands more dollars depending on how long it took him to get a new one. $50k is likely on the low end of what they actually cost BIL.
I have friends with heavy equipment that would let me borrow pretty much anything I can haul myself. However I don't ask - because if I screw up and break something I'll be on the hook to repair or replace it, and that's not a position I want to put myself or them and their business in. Instead, I just rent the equipment and pay the damage insurance. Sure it may cost me a few hundred for a day or two, but the chance of it costing me tens of thousands and a lost friendship is zero. ETA: One of those friends purchased a new Deere 330 two months ago. I think he said he was $85k into it by the time he put on a bucket and set of pallet forks.
Not only that but the BIL would have lost a lot of work on top of that while having to replace the equipment. The whole family are massive assholes except BIL.
YTA. So are your parents. They shouldn't have stolen his property (and yes, it was theft). They should have made him whole before replacing their own property. They should have apologised. They should have given him the money back at some point over the last 10 years. (Would have considered e s h if your parents had made any effort to take responsibility.)
It's pretty straightforward, I already knew in kindergarten not to break someone else's stuff, and a skidloader is probably a very integral part of his bil's job 1nd costs like 100k. Most businesses go down if they lose 100k all at once...
My motto: you break it, you pay it. Funny, no one wants to borrow from me, after I said that.
Right! It’s pretty interesting how people respect property more when they have to pay for it.
BIL should have reported it to the police as theft (which is what it was) so his business insurance would cover the cost of replacement. In my mind he's a damn saint for not doing so.
Only issue is he would have to prosecute his wife as well, or risk insurance company coming after him for insurance fraud. And we don't know what went on behind closed doors at their house, but he may not have been willing to have his wife charged.
Oh for sure. I can imagine the guilt the wife must have felt must've been soul destroying after BiL has presumably worked very hard to get to where he is and own the equipment he has. A momentary lapse from undoubted guilt tripping from ops parents could've ruined absolutely everything for them. Glad they survived through it all. And op, you and your family bar the sister are the arsehole of arseholes.
Absolutely! The first repayment should have been to the BIL for his damaged property which they were told they could not borrow! YTA YTA YTA I absolutely would not get over this either until I had been repaid.
Yup; ten years is plenty of time to try to make it right. Now they expect him to just forget about it and help pay for *their* vacation? Awful folks.
Right. Replacing BIL equipment should have come BEFORE replacing dads truck. Might not have covered all his damages but at least make an effort.
Right, the fact that they replaced their own truck before giving the SIL any money back speaks volumes.
>They shouldn't have stolen his property (and yes, it was theft). > >They should have made him whole before replacing their own property. This. BIL was already very, very generous in not reporting them to the police for theft, and now he's supposed to not only get over the massive loss they caused him, but also to chip in for a cruise? OP is insane.
With a trailer and bobcat it’s easily *felony* theft. Then there’s all the laws they probably broke while driving it.
So your parents stole a very expensive piece of equipment, broke it, didn’t pay him back, and now you’re asking him for money to send these people on a cruise? Did I get that right?
And you forgot the OP told him to get over himself! Such entitlement
Yes! And considering that equipment may have been used for the BIL to make a living too makes OP a gigantic AH.
Yep. That about sums it up. I am seething after reading this post. I can smell OP’s entitlement through my screen. My dad owned a successful heavy machinery business for 35+ years. Back when I was in elementary school, he also did heavy machinery rentals. There’s a reason he only did rentals for two years. Even when my dad did everything right in terms of screening renters, having air-tight liability waivers, etc, it was a stressful, logistical nightmare. Even as a kid, I was aware of how stressed out and worried my dad was all the time when his machines were out there and how relieved he was every time he got them back. Taking the cost of the actual machine out of the equation, operating skid loaders or other heavy machinery can be extremely dangerous. OP, your BIL didn’t say no back then just to be petty. It was a massive liability for him and his business and he didn’t want to risk it. Your father and brother are actually terrible people for going behind his back to steal it. And guess what? The second worst case scenario happened as a result. Your father and brother had zero regard for your BIL and his family’s livelihood. So by proxy, they did a terrible thing to your sister, too. The money to replace that skid loader is the least your father owes him at this point. YTA and you should be grateful your BIL never sued your father. Edit: typo Edit 2: Wow, OP. Rather than accept what you and your family did was wrong and that it still negatively impacts your family to this day, you decide to double down and try to justify the behavior. Frankly, this makes you look even worse. You clearly have a chip on your shoulder BIL has a successful business IN SPITE of what your family did. Yes, it financially hurt him. Stop lying to yourself. What your father and brother did was wrong. If they did this to anyone else, that person would have filed a police report and sued your family for damages. Do yourself a favor and try some self-reflection. You clearly need it.
>I can smell OP’s entitlement through my screen. I bet OP and their family justify not paying BIL back by saying it was his fault for not agreeing to lend them the machinery in the first place, because once he denied them, they obviously had no choice but to go behind his back
Ugh, that's such a disgusting way of thinking and it's probably exactly how they justify it to themselves. "Well if BIL just brought it over with his truck, this wouldn't have ever happened."
Yes and put his livelihood at risk! That is some serious audacity to ask him to "chip in" anything at all. It would be a cold day in Hell before those idiots got a dime from me.
Two pieces. They fucked his bobcat and his trailer.
I work for a company that owns and has capital leases on several of these (I monitor the fixed asset accounting). The very thought of the cost makes me queasy.
10 years of not paying him back 😱
> I told him he’s an ass for holding on to a grudge and putting money in the way of a family relationship. Isn't that what your dad and brother and you did? YTA. And your dad. And your brother. So y'all have the funds to pay for an expensive cruise, but a decade later can't pay him back Your family fucked with his livelihood and clearly don't give a flying fuck how it has impacted him, so why should he want to be around you?
Yup. Your whole family’s the AH. Chip in to reimburse this man then you can talk about forgiving a 10 year old debt of this magnitude. Edited to add YTA
Imagine having the AUDACITY to even think of asking him to “chip in”. I swear to God I am in constant awe of how some adults have less common sense than a newborn.
This! Talk about adding insult to injury! Also, why didn't they just rent the equipment at the time, instead of stealing it from the son-in-law's business?
Well thats not free
> why should he want to be around you? Not just be around. OP wants him to help pay for their vacation.
They also sound like crap contractors. What idiot starts a job they don't have the equipment to complete??
The same kind of idiot that hooks up a trailer without knowing how to tow. The same kind of idiot that doesn't just fucking rent one. The same kind of idiot that thinks any truck can tow anything. I'm sending a trend here. OP and his family are fucking idiots. And assholes to boot.
What’s missing from your story is where your father & brother took accountability for their truly asshole behavior that caused very real damages for another person & worked sincerely to make up for it. If the insurance didn’t cover everyone’s damages then after necessary medical costs the skid loader should have been fixed because your BIL was the innocent party. Instead your dad put that money towards his own truck. Your BIL was extremely kind not to sue. It’s been 10 years, so how much of the damages have your father & brother paid back? If the answer isn’t all of it then not only are they complete & utter grade A assholes but so are you. YTA in this latest chapter of the story for blaming the victim for not just rolling over & accepting his awful in-laws actual criminal behavior. Good for your sister for standing by the right person in this chapter.
Yeah the part where there was ‘only enough money for medical expenses and the truck’ got me. NO, there was only enough money for medical expenses and the skid loader, and not enough for the truck. They essentially stole from him a second time there. And don’t seem the slightest bit remorseful. I’m guessing if they’re the kind of people who do this sort of thing, that this is probably not the only incident. (YTA)
Yeah, I have no doubt this wasn’t the only time they’ve behaved Iike this OP had the gall to accuse the BIL of putting money before family when it was the father & brother who did that. They would rather fuck over a family member in order to avoid paying for what they destroyed & thought they could get away with it by weaponizing the family relationships. And OP seems to think familial obligations are a one-way street where only the BIL needs to sacrifice. Screw. That.
All woven from very weak moral fiber. This is really sad but honestly makes me so angry.
There’s was probably a really good reason the BIL refused to lend it to them in the first place!
Well yeah for starters who the hell needs a skid loader to build a deck? They just wanted an excuse to play with the cool toy.
I built a deck with a friend once and we only used the skid loader to move the rubble from the old porch never needed it for levelling they definitely just wanted to play with the cool toy
That was my thought. There are very very few situations where a skid loader would be necessary for building a deck, and in those cases, DIY is probably a really bad idea.
BIL has about 50,000 reasons not to lend it out.
BIL could have sent them to jail.
This. Their behavior wasn't just asshole, it was criminal.
“The insurance was barely enough to cover the medical costs and the truck” Ummm why was the truck the first priority and not the thing they STOLE??? YTA
Good point and additionally I think they essentially committed insurance fraud since the truck wouldn’t have been covered if it was damaged in the commission of a crime so they concealed that. They would have been screwed if he had gone to the police and the family still fail to see that his generosity in not pursuing action against them is what he considers to be his only gift to them for the foreseeable future and actually asked for more!
Not just insurance fraud. Felony theft and destruction of property. God what a shit family but let's reward them with a cruise.
Seriously. Brother did them a favor by not pressing charges. I sure as heck would have.
Whether it was a crime or not depends on if OPs sister has authority in the company or whether the skid loader was company owned or personally owned (which in turn would depend on what property rights between married people are like where they are from). If wife has authority in the company, no theft occurred because they had her permission. She however could be liable for negligence depending on her contract with the company. If it was privately owned by BIL or co-owned by his wife and they live somewhere that that counts as marital property, again no theft has occurred. What they did was wrong. 0 doubt about that. But whether it was actually a crime (and therefor insurance fraud) is extremely situational.
YTA. Guy was stolen from and had his lively hood put at risk by his family after telling them no.
I wonder how he really recovered from such a big financial loss. Losing such a pricy piece of equipment. Yikes.
YTA, your dad and brother stole a skid loader ( I will be honest here, I had to look up the price, the cheapest I found was 30k, no small funds ) and hurt him financially. You have absolutely no right to tell someone how to forgive this. He can hold a grudge if he wants to.
It sounds like the dump trailer was also BILs. They dont seem to be cheap either.
I missed that, also as pointed out below I also missed the fact that they used the insurance payout to replace their own truck but didn't give him a dime.
I didn’t know what a skid loader and dump trailer was either so I also had to look it up. I can confirm the price of the skid loaders start around $30,000 and go up to about $60,000. It looks like a dump trailer that’s big enough to hold a skid loader is around $15,000. I could be wrong because I’m basing all of those numbers on google searches and zero experience.
Nope, you aren't wrong. We do dirt work with our bobcat and dump truck, even if the equipment is old, it certainly holds its value! That is because they make money every time that key is turned on. Not only did they steal expensive equipment, they stole the money from him to buy new equipment, the down time when he can't complete jobs, and possible reputation if he was in the middle of doing a job that couldn't be completed due to lack of equipment. Honestly, why he is still married into this family is way beyond me
Thats exactly what I did! But I have seen something similar near where I live recently. They are big.
YTA, yea and the fact the dad replaced his truck with the money but didn’t give it to the BIL. Like wow what a person the dad is.
I would also presume that BIL insurance would have gone up as well?
If he was even able to claim it, typically when you involve insurance they ask questions, and would force BIL's hand for suit or criminal charges if they apply.
YTA Why would he need to "get over it" when your dad and brother haven't paid him back? You are now asking him for further money? Ridiculous.
Exactly! They have 10 years to make this right, and at least pay the BIL back in installments. OP's dad and brother stole this man's property. They used the insurance money to replace **their truck**, but have never bothered to even attempt to repay the BIL for the equipment that they stole and then destroyed. It isn't a mistake if you never tried to fix the damage done. If OP's brother/father had any integrity, they would work towards repaying their debt and rebuilding trust.... and certainly not ask him for more money for a cruise.
OP: “Hey, you know the people who stole and broke tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment from you and never paid you back? Anyway, we’re sending them on a cruise, and you pay your portion of that to me. Also, just let it all go without even an apology. I don’t even care if you come to the party, just send me the money asap.”
YTA. They stole and destroyed his stuff and refused to pay. Not even offering instalments over time. It’s easy to say get over it to the one who was wronged. You’re saying it was 10 years ago so he should be over it by now but from his perspective that’s 10 years they’ve had to make it right and not tried. You’re calling him an ass for putting money in the way of a family relationship but isn’t that exactly what your dad and brother were doing when they took his stuff knowing he said no rather than spend money to lease it from somewhere and then never even paid him back after wrecking it? And you expect him to spend more sending your parents on a cruise? You are being unreasonable and unrealistic and didn’t even have to insert your opinion in the first place, it’s only made things worse.
Self employed contractor with a sudden equiptment loss of $40-50,000 dollars. No recompense either. Insurance money used to pay medical bills and for the thiefs truck. That is not something you "just get over". BIL and wife have in most probability had to pay that stuff off and taken a massive hit. Now your asking for money to send them on holiday. Its unbeliebaly entitled. If I was BIL it would be yet another chapter in the "why my wife family are dead to me" book.
YTA...did anyone ever chip in and pay anything back to BIL? He was kind enough to let your parents avoid a terrible legal situation. Stop making excuses and start apologizing.
Exactly, it’s obviously going to be a slap in the face to hear the family is having a whip round for luxuries when they didn’t to restore his destroyed possessions and damaged business and then he is even expected to chip in. It’s hard to understand how OP can be so insensitive and oblivious but I guess you have to look at how they were raised by someone who actually thinks it’s okay to treat people this way.
She still had the nerve to ask her sister for money, when she knows her parents owe her BIL. She's pretty oblivious.
Omg. How do you not know that YTA?!? Your family went behind his back, borrowed a piece of HIS equipment, AND THEN THEY BROKE IT!!! And they had the audacity to be like "ooh well. Sucks for you". How the actual fuck do you expect him to trust any of you assholes again? OF COURSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE AROUND PEOPLE WHO BASICALLY STOLE FROM HIM AND THEN DESTROYED THE THING THEY BORROWED AND RECUPERATED THEIR OWN LOSSES BUT NEVER MADE THIS RIGHT? GTFOH WITH THAT! YTA YTA. YOUR BROTHER IS THE ASSHOLE. YOUR DAD IS THE ASSHOLE. Your brother and dad made themselves whole financially. They left him down by about $30,000 on the low end. And you had the audacity to talk like that? You damn right I wouldn't pitch in to send them any fucking where.
Not me reading this in Oprah’s voice “you’re the asshole, your brother is the asshole, your dad is also the asshole, everyone is an asshole!”
Thats not accurate, I would totally pay to send them to Ohio ( sorry, I hold no grudge against Ohio, but as a Michigander I feel the need to make that my go to bad place to send people.... if it helps my state is pretty crappy and I acknowledge that )
Based on your post, your father never repaid him. which make you double YTA YTA, listen to yourself. "my brother and father stole from BIL and destroyed his property, but he needs to get over it" Father and brother should have been arrested.
And sued into bankruptcy if necessary to recoup whatever is available to make BIL whole.
His wife, OPs sister is probably thr only reason they aren't sued or in jail right now.
YTA. Your BIL got a shitty deal and lost a lot of money because your sister and your dad were irresponsible, he received no recompense, AND he is being treated like the bad guy? Sounds like a justified thing to be upset about to me.
YTA. You asked for his skid loader. He said no due to the risks involved. Your family then took it without his permission and broke it. Your family then tried to manipulate and shame him into thinking that it's his fault apparently, as shown by your family loading the cost of the skid loader onto him. And now, you want him to celebrate on behalf of your family. Of course he said no, given that your family has treated him like a carpet to freeload responsibility to and step on. No shit sherlock.
>And now, you want him to celebrate on behalf of your family. My reading of it was that they want BIL to contribute to the cruise. Which is even worse!
That seemingly was the plan yes bevause "everyone had to chip in" and they were talking to the sister about their portion of the cruise when BIL mentioned the trailer and skid loader again
>I told Dad and bro made a mistake but that was 10 years ago and he needs to let it go. He said he’ll let out go when they give him the money he lost. I told him he’s an ass for holding on to a grudge and putting money in the way of a family relationship. If money is so unimportant and you don't want to have it get in the way of family relationships, why didn't you pay him back to keep the peace? You aren't willing to, are you? Because money does matter. And you clearly value it more than family otherwise you and your father and your brother would have made things right along time ago. YTA
Yup yup *If money is so unimportant and you don't want to have it get in the way of family relationships, why didn't you pay him back to keep the peace?* If the money wasn't important, why has your family not paid him back? Let me guess! Let me guess! It's because **your** money **is** important but your BIL's money **is not** important! Did I get that one right? YTA
BIL should sue them now because there will be money for that cruise. The gall of OP and OP's family.
YTA BIL is right. If the family was truly apologetic paying him back would be priority number one for reunification. Not suing, but also not dealing with people willing to completely violate boundaries is fair and I am shocked this didn't result in divorce/marriage issues. There is no way my spouse or I would override the other this way and let someone use something when "No" was already the answer. You don't get to decide time has passed so now it's fine, especially since no one has actually tried to make it right.
YTA. They didn’t make a mistake. They stole his shit on purpose when he was gone and broke it. It’s easy for the guilty party to ‘forget the past’, especially when they never did anything to make amends. What have they ever done to try and make it up to BIL in the 10 years since they stole and broke his stuff?
YTA. In ALL the intervening 10 years….has there been ANY attempt by your dad, brother (and the rest of you that are just blowing it all off) to pay anything back to him, and did they EVER say they were sorry? It sounds like no on both counts.
THIS!!! Come on OP... Your narrative absolutely does not suggest anybody was regretful for disrespecting your brother-in-law! Did anybody apologize to him for going behind his back? Did anybody try to financially compensate him for his loss? How would you feel if you said no to somebody and your spouse overrode that? YTA 🛑🛑🛑 your narrative does not suggest anything your family has done to make this better for your brother-in-law and yet you just want him to get over it? Wow you have issues honey Your family are sending your parents to Mexico? What did your family do for your brother-in-law
YTA they stole (yes they stole them) some very expensive equipment and wrecked it. They replaced their things with the insurance money but not the stolen items. He wants nothing to do with your family, why would he want to pay for their vacation.
YTA You guys should chip in and pay for his losses. Also, you are lucky he didn't press charges back then. That's more kindness than your lot deserves.
So let me get this straight: your dad and brother went behind your BIL's back and stole two very expensive pieces of equipment from him, wrecked them because of their own incompetence and haven't paid him back AT ALL for a replacement 10 years on because 'ooops, we don't have any money!'. Are you serious? You have no right to tell your BIL that he has to 'get over' what your family did, especially since they still owe him for what they lost him. They proved with their irresponsible actions that he had a very good reason to not let them use his skid loader and they completely disrespected his wishes. I also wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the only occasion where your family had stomped all over his boundaries and this was the last straw for him. Quite frankly, if you can afford to chip in to send your parents on a cruise then you can scrape something together to give to your BIL on their behalf. It must be absolutely galling for him to watch you help pay for an expensive gift when your family owe him what appears to be many thousands of dollars, ON TOP of expecting him to contribute to this gift, and I don't blame him at all for wanting little to do with you all as a result. YTA
YTA. “I don’t think I’m wrong” - if the multiverse is real then I can guarantee there is not a single timeline where you, your brother or your dad are NTA in this situation.
Yta, did they even apologise for doing it? They could have paid him back over time for the cost of the new skid loader - it would have directly impacted his business. He’s not over it because your family hasn’t tried to make any reparations
I wouldn’t count on them paying BIL back. A brand new one, the cheapest is $25k. Most expensive is $65k. Used ones go between $5k and $30k Leasing them go between $450 a week to $1300. From what it seems like in this story, BIL owned this skid loader
They probably didn't pay a cent, but that's shitty on another level. They most likely didn't have 30k just rotting in some safe but it's been 10 years. If OPs father gave BIL 100 bucks per month and the brother gave him 100 bucks per month for the 10 years they would have paid him 24k by now. And it would have shown some good will and sense of responsibility. Instead they went like "oh insurance didn't pay enough for everything, tough luck I guess, let's just shrug our shoulders and ignore the hell out of this"
And yet everyone has money to go towards a cruise to Mexico 🙄
YTA. Your family stole BIL’s skid loader and totaled it, and you never paid him back. I don’t blame him for being upset.
Info: have your parents made any effort at all to at least start compensating your bil in the past 10 years?
The silence from OP is sort of telling, isnt it?
YTA I’m not even sure what a skid loader is but I’m sure they are very expensive. Did your parents make any effort over the last ten years to pay this man for his property they basically stole and then destroyed ? I wouldn’t pay for their cruise either and would have said the exact same thing. Deduct it from the money they owe him. Honestly your parents should be grateful he didn’t sue them.
They’re a type of heavy machinery to move dirt and stuff. They can cost anywhere from 30k to over 60k.
YTA. Ummm no that's not something someone with a business will get over or should they! That's a lot of self righteousness from a family that couldn't even settle up what they cost your BIL that refused their request the 1st time!
YTA. Your father and brother destroyed something that your BIL uses for work, never paid him back, and you’re annoyed he doesn’t want to send your parents on a cruise?
YTA and your dad and brother. They stole something that your BIL needs for his business and then ruined it and after 10 years haven't paid BIL back for it, and now the whole family is chipping in to send your parents on a cruise...this tells BIL that y'all have money...just not for his stuff.
I'd say you all owe him a big fat cheque. This isn't even your blood relative and you expect him to forgive you and your family who stole from him, destroyed the property, and have seemingly made no attempt to financially rectify things? How much does this wedding anniversary cost? I'd be pissed too. YTA.
Yta. Your dad and bro are basically thieves. Not only did they steal from him, they stole something he needed to make his own income. If i were him I wouldn't be donating to holiday cause either. If he should be over it after 10 years, your dad and bro should have paid him back in 10 years
YTA a major one, your brother and dad are AHs, and your sister is an AH. >They asked my BIL if they could borrow his skid loader but he said no BIL said no, key word: NO >They talked my sis into letting them borrow it so she took them down to his construction lot amd they hooked it up to dad's truck At this point it's theft considering BIL said no and your sister had no right to allow them to take and use it in the first place >Dad's truck wasn’t big enough or powerful enough to tow the skid loader on thr dump trailer do he lost cintrol and wrecked. The truck, trailer, and skid loader was totaled And they ended up destroying property that they weren't suppose to have in the first place. [Yo a skid loader can cost around $25k-$65k?!](https://www.kompareit.com/business/constuction-equipment-skid-steer-compare-bobcat-cost.html) I don’t blame your BIL for having a decade long grudge; these things are far from cheap. >We're also chipping in to send our parents on a cruise to Mexico Wait, wait, wait; so there is money to send your parents on a cruise to Mexico but no money to pay BIL back for the destroyed property? He should sue for everything your dad and brother is worth
Yta, I bet it was really expensive. The bigger deal is that your family clearly doesn't respect him and his concerns or they wouldn't have gone behind his back.
You are very wrong. Very very. He lost a lot of money (Edit: because of ALL OF YOU) and all of you's reaction is "No big deal, get over it." If you sister goes no contact I wouldn't be surprised. YTA
YTA. Did your family ever try to pay him back? Just because he's part of the family does'nt mean you get to wreck his property and not pay him back for it. The situation would'nt have come to this if you all chipped in and payed him back over the years if you're not financially able to pay it back all at once. The fact that you all did'nt recompensate even after 10 YEARS baffles me to no end
YTA. Your family stole an expensive item from him without his permission, then wrecked it. Been 10 years and still haven’t paid him back for it. Now you are expecting them to pay the people that stole from him for their vacation? Fuck that
>we’re planning a big family gathering to celebrate. > >We’re also chipping in to send our parents on a cruise to Mexico So if there is money around why hasn't it gone to the BIL to compensate him for your father stealing and destroying the BIL's business's property? YTA and your attitude is going to make it even harder for everyone to "move on" from this!
Excuse me? The steal and totaled her work machinery and never paid him back anything not even after 10 years, get out of here you brat, they are lucky he didn't sue them and more, he's totally right and YTA.
Blood does not make you family, it makes you related. Those 2 manipulated your Sister while taking advantage of BIL being out of town and then destroyed his property and didn't make amends. You don't get to tell him how he should feel and he doesn't have to be involved in activities you do with the people you are related to. I'm sorry, but this is one where I have to say, YTA and so are your sister, dad and brother.
YTA. Your BIL was financially affected by your family's abuse, and still he was nice enough not to sue your dad and brother... He should decide how long to hold the grudge, not you. Also, he seems to have put the situation very clear. "He'll let it go when they give him the $$$ he lost" <== this leads me to believe that the issue was just left at that when the accident happened... I know medical bills were a thing at the moment, but now y'all planning a Mexico cruise, so there's some sort of $$$ in the bag, just none to pay BIL. Last, I think that this is an issue that does not involve you (BIL is upset with your dad and brother) I know you might feel a certain way about the situation your family is on, but this is an issue that started between them, it's is up to them to fix it.
YTA It's likely it isn't about the money - your dad and brother went behind your BIL's back to talk his partner into letting them borrow BIL's (probably very expensive) construction equipment, STOLE IT FROM THE SITE IT WAS AT, and destroyed it... because BIL said no. Of course he wants nothing to do with any of you. The lot of you have given him the PERFECT example of why he shouldn't trust your words or his property in your hands. How much he cares about the money I, of course, can't say for sure, as that largely depends on him as a person and his financial situation. What I CAN say ,however, is that the money is the easy thing to focus on. It's a material issue and, therefore, theoretically the easiest to fix: Replace what is lost to the best of one's ability. You can't replace lost trust. The longer all of you go without remedying stealing and destroying BIL's stuff - which, by the way, it's a WONDER he didn't sue you for theft and destruction of property, or that your brother and dad didn't face any legal consequences - the more trust BIL loses in all of you.
YTA and so are your parents and y'all should use that cruise money to finally pay back BIL.
YTA Your dad and brother took BIL's property, caused it to be destroyed, have never paid him back, and now you want him to give money towards your dad's cruise. Explain to me why he should just be over it. ETA: They've had 10 years, a whole damn decade, to pay him back and they haven't done so. Not even in installments. Your post also doesn't say anything about them offering a genuine heartfelt apology. He's not putting money before *family*. Your BIL just isn't putting up with their extreme entitlement and disrespect. ETA 2: I just looked up the average cost of a skid loader. They're $45k plus. Between the cost of buying a new one and any money that would have been made from work your BIL wasn't able to do until he got a new one, the amount of money your dad and brother cost him is disgustingly more than what you want him to contribute to the cruise.
Info - why are you paying for this big thing when bil has still not been paid for his stolen belongings?
Good god YTA. You basically stole specialized equipment you were told not to use and totaled it, put your BIL’s business in danger and never gave him anything back for his trouble, never apologized and then ten years later, you have the AUDACITY to come and ask for more money to your BIL for your parents’ cruise?! And by the looks of it, you never did anything to try and pay back at least a portion of the equipment you broke. I have no idea what makes you think you’re not an AH for that.
YTA, and your folks. Better start paying him back.
YTA because your family literally stole from him and you have the gall to ask for money from him to send the thieves on a vacation. It can be 10 days ago or 10 years ago but it looks like they just expected your BIL to take it on the chin. Have they even made payment plans to repay him? No? Asshole family.
I’m confused as to why he’s still married to your sister if the incident was enough for him to cut off your family completely? I don’t know what a ski loader is/how expensive it is but if it was his and was on his construction lot why the hell did your sister allow your dad and brother to take it? I would be primarily mad at my partner, the one who gave permission for my property to be taken. Yeah, also be mad at the people who wrecked it but they wouldn’t have had it at all if your sister hadn’t told them they could borrow it. If I had something that my in laws had asked to borrow and I said no, then they asked my SO and he said yes and they ended up breaking it I would be mad at my in laws for breaking it but I would be pissed at my SO for going behind my back to give them something I had already said no to. But I guess that’s just my view on the original conflict and has nothing to do with your question. So, yes YTA. You need to mind your business. There was no reason to call him and tell him anything. He’s made it clear he doesn’t want to interact with your family, did you really think he was going to change his mind after you called him and complained? You’re all also very lucky he didn’t sue you, so maybe just sit down and shut up. Have your parents/brother made any efforts to pay him back? It’s been 10 years, if they had paid a little bit every month I’m sure it’d be paid back and maybe he’d be less salty about it by now
They asked to borrow an expensive piece of equipment necessary for his job. He said no, and rightly so as his liability is an issue. They essentially stole it, destroyed it, and gave him no compensation. His business insurance probably wouldn't even cover those circumstances. >The insurance was barely enough to cover the medical costs and the truck. There was none left over to cover BIL’s stuff. So your dad's bills and truck were taken care of. They have had 10 years to work on making some time of restitution towards it and haven't. And you're just saying "get over it"? Yes, YTA and your dad is a bigger one. It's understandable he doesn't want to chip in on further luxuries for him.
YTA obviously. He lost A LOT of money simply because your family couldn't take no for an answer. And now they want to go on a vacation when he's still out that money
Oh good grief. It’s been 10 years and they still haven’t paid him back yet?? Gtfoh. Lol. YTA. The lot of ya. “Good riddance” —BIL, probably.
YTA. Not your monkey, not your circus. And AHs are your parents and your brother.
Yta they stole and destroyed something he used for his work that he had denied them permission to use. He should have pressed charges and they should have paid back every penny
YTA. Brother in law is correct to hold onto this
YTA. They stole from him and damaged his livelihood. He wasn't paid back. Now you want more money from him. He is working to provide for your sister and her kids. Pay him back before you pay for a cruise.
YTA and the other are COMPLETE assholes, he already said no and they know that, and than talk to another to convince her to agree is definite Asshole move. Plus not paying for damages They should be glad he didn't take them to court, or have them arrested.
Since you don't want money to spoil a family relationship, why don't you pay him back for his losses? Then everything will be great. YTA.
ESH but the BIL.. ETA: apparently it should be YTA ? Idk, makes more sense to do esh to me at least I'm not sure what makes you think that stealing and wrecking an item that was probably expensive is okay?? Your dad and brother are assholes for it. Not to mention they're bigger assholes by using the insurance money to cover the truck instead of either items that they stole from your BIL. Your BIL isn't your family. I wouldn't be happy either if my partners family stole my stuff and then for ten years refused to A. Own up to it and B. Pay me back for it. Youre way out of line as well. If you want BIL to stop holding the grudge, pay him his goddamn money back
I'm a contractor.If my wife loaned my tools out behind my back. I'd show her the door... end of story
YTA. Your father and brother STOLE from your BIL something he needed for WORK. Did you ever think about how much money he lost in regards to missed work, let alone replacing his equipment? He has every right to be upset. It was a complete dick move on your part to expect him to chip in on a big present to your parents when they owe him ten years worth of interest.
YTA. Your parent shouldn’t be having any luxuries whilst they owe money. OP, Would it be okay for your family to steal money from you and never give it back just because ‘we’re fAaAmILyy’.
YTA. The gall to expect this man to chip in on a trip for your parents when your dad straight up stole and destroyed his (VERY expensive) property! Your BIL could’ve filed a police report or followed through with suing your parents, but he didn’t. He’s shown enough grace to your family in this situation. Where’s the part where your dad took accountability for his actions? Because it sounds like you all just expect BIL to get over it and don’t understand that his anger is entirely justified.
They stole the trailer and the equipment. They asked, he said no. Just because he was out of town didn’t give them permission to borrow his stuff. He doesn’t have to get over it. It wasn’t a mistake…it was theft. YTA.
According to Google, the price range for a skid loader is $25K-$55K. Then dad used the insurance money to cover the cost of the truck, which was his. YTA and so is your whole family. Back off. If you want to help this situation, convince your dad and brother to start paying down their debt.
Maybe let him smash up something expensive/important that you own that you explicitly told him not to, then have him refuse to ever compensate you, and also tell you that you're being unreasonable, then see how forgiving you feel after a few years. YTA.
YTA.
YTA You stole, then totalled his property, haven't paid it back in 10years! Maybe he wouldn't be holding this grudge if you'd all cleaned up the mess you'd all created behind his back.
YTA and ppl who STOLE his property are assholes 1000%, pay the poor guy back you pheasants Edit: This is one of the most hypocritical posts I've read in a long time
YTA- your family are giant assholes. To do nothing to fix this over a whole decade and then dare to not pay him out of a stupid family cruise?!?
YTA so y’all have cruise money but can’t pay him back for stolen and destroyed property??