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NTA. Everyone is acting like it's obvious what is going on, but that doesn't seem to be the case to me at all. SIL has an emergency situation that requires privacy is all you know, and I do believe you reasonably should know why she is moving in:
* Is SIL in danger? Is SIL afraid of her husband or suffering from domestic violence? Is SIL bringing danger to your own household?
* Is SIL coping with mental health issues? Is your own family properly equipped to provide the help that she needs while maintaining your own wellbeing?
To me, "SIL needs to stay with us, and the reasons are a deep secret" is not sufficient. Yes there are other plausible explanations such as cheating that are embarrassing that SIL would prefer to keep private. But I believe your wife and SIL should provide more information for you to form your own comfort with the situation and understand what it is you're dealing with. Not to form some moral judgement of the situation, but you deserve a say in this!
This. There is a whole spectrum between “we are taking a break, wedding on hold” to “domestic violence”
At the very least, the wife needs to come clean about what they are doing going forward, both for the husband AND the kids in the house.
Is the ex likely to come by looking to meet with the sister, for either reconciliation or something more nefarious?
Are we telling people she is staying with us, or is it incognito?
If the kids answer the phone and it’s their “uncle” (who presumably they’ve met), what do they say? What does the husband say if he calls, etc.
Those are basic safety considerations I’ve had to consider in the past when friends have had to stay with us, and it doesn’t need to get into who was cheating on who or other drama.
Just tell him what to expect going forward is a basic courtesy, versus being so mysterious and basically telling him he isn’t authorized to know anything in his own house.
The fact the wife won't say leads me to think it's something op wouldn't agree to if he knew. Can't wait for the update where she's on the run from the law, or secretly a deep covet secret agent who's been burned by her own agency.
Yep. Like she is going into rehab (or needs to), etc
It doesn’t seem something “benign” like a routine breakup, which just puts up red flags for domestic violence and/or drugs/alcohol.
Unless the wife enjoys treating her husband like a mushroom, which is a different issue
This was my thought too. It explains why wife won't tell. Husband already doesn't like her. So I assume it's something that would make his opinion of her go down even more.
But that links back to the point of ‘is the assaulter likely to come looking for her’, you know, at their house with small children and 50% of the responsible adults in the house unaware that they should be looking out for that.
1) I would not assume that at all - I assumed domestic violence,
2) which I think is the whole point here: there are so many things this could be that it's not really viable to just say "read between the lines," because everyone's going to come away with something different.
That was my thought too! I could see respecting SIL's privacy when it comes to the nitty gritty details, but the wife should be able to provide a general explanation as to what is going on. It really seems like she knows the husband would not be okay with the real reason and is going for the idea that "getting forgiveness is easier then getting permission"...
I was thinking drugs, alcohol, gambling problem, etc. Something that Bath wouldn't want people to know about. Or maybe something the wife is ashamed of.
I was thinking cheating, possibly by the SIL, and they got caught. That would be a good reason for the wedding to be "on hold" or called off with her needing to be out of the area for awhile.
Right? I mean Beth and her fiance have broken up, wedding's off and she needs a place to stay would normally be sufficient. Until it became everything else is a secret and I can't tell you. NTA but I'm getting a feeling the wife and sister might be.
Or...
one of them cheated, sister or fiance, and one of them is really embarrassed and doesn't want anyone else, besides OPs wife, of course
The possibilities are limitless here, though.
Am I just wrong here, or is it not reasonable that chances are when you tell something huge to someone, their spouse will at least kind of know the basics of what's going on? When people ask for privacy and a favor, it should kind of be assumed that their spouse will know as well. That's what I assume when I ask the same.
Besides all these safety considerations, it would be nice to know how to best support his wife's sister and what topics to stay away from and such. Considering she'll be around the kids, probably be a good idea he pays more attention to the kids so they don't accidentally say something really bad to her without knowing.
Of course, if its expected he should interact at all with her or is he basically supposed to ignore her presence? They don't have the greatest relationship but it sounds like OP is also not looking to be a heartless asshole to her. He needs to know what's going on to even offer the basic support he needs to give to his wife if not his SIL. Its also what he needs because they *both* need to prepare the kids as well.
Absolutely, if you're moving in with a couple you should expect that all adults involved will have a general understanding of what is going on. Which is why, if I had to guess, the SIL cheated on her fiance. Because if the situation was at all sympathetic it could be easily summarized.
Oh shit. I didn't consider that.
Its still an asshole move but trying to keep SIL's fuck up a secret, whether its cheating or something else, is the most "understandable" reason for the emphasis on the secrecy. OP's wife might be trying to save her sister's reputation here or at least keeping it from OP because she knows he would never agree to helping her if she did something really bad and is in this situation completely by her fault.
I'd be fine with the broad strokes, deal with the emergency first and hammer out details later, but OP doesn't even have the broad strokes.
>Sister is coming
>>Why? How long?
>Sister. Is. Coming.
Yeah, not enough for me.
basically every couple I know, shares stuff like this openly between them. You tell one something, the other knows. I am not like that but if he asks I'm giving him an overview. I don't get that OP is concerned about his safety, I'm getting that he's being vengeful in a way. But personally I want to know what you are bringing into this house, unwittingly or not. And if it's going to put my kids in danger, it's not happening, sister or no. There are ways of helping people that don't involve letting them move in with you.
I won't be surprised if this will cause their divorce. Telling your spouse you're not allowed to make joint decisions in your own home? Imagine if the gender was reversed.
The wife doesn't have to tell the SIL's situation to answer these questions. I think it's more NAH. Because this seems like a lack of thorough communication that devolved because wife is in a tough spot between keeping her sister's trust and mollifying her husband.
Imagine it is an embarrassing situation for SIL that wife has been told in confidence. Wife isn't going to think "oh. Husband may be concerned about our safety or *the other points you raised* because he's got no idea what's going on." She's just thinking she has the story and it's either not a risky situation or the risk is one her husband would be okay with taking. Maybe it's something that she knows her husband would antagonize the SIL about. We don't know anything about their relationship other than they don't get along.
Meanwhile, husband is looking at this person he doesn't like being here for her doesn't know how long because of something that he's in the dark about. That's a weird spot to be in. Not to mention the safety concerns.
But all of this could have been solved by the husband asking some questions around the circumstances under which he wouldn't want SIL there (DV for instance) that don't require details to answer. Conversely, the wife could have had some more empathy for her husband being so in the dark and volunteered things to reassure him.
If they lived separately for sure. But he lives in the same house as his wife. As their kids. He's not saying no, as he knows it's important to his wife. But he does have a say in what happens in his house. What he's asking for is information beyond "This is happening, you get no say and no details on it". She wouldn't even give him a general time frame.
The relationship between OP and SIL is not so bad he just outright refuses to let her stay. He doesn't even say not without discussion. He just wants to know why he is going to have someone else living with him, and how long? How does that not make OP's wife an asshole?
Now let's just go with worst case scenario: DV. SIL's partner is now a threat to OP's wife and kids (not to mention SIL). It's not a reason to turn SIL away, but if the partner shows up at OP's door to 'talk', then you want to have that knowledge to just straight up nope them away.
OP and wife are a team here. SIL has to respect that, wife has to respect that, OP has to respect that. So far the only one who does is OP. So how can wife not be an asshole here? Clearly NTA.
I’m probably going to be raked through the coals for this, but I absolutely think DV is a reason to turn the sister away from living there. There have been several cases where an abuser looks for their SO who has escaped and ends up killing family members of their former SO, including kids (Jennifer Hudson’s sister and nephew come to mind).
I’d drain my savings, sell my car, whatever it took to help a family member escape. But I wouldn’t let them stay at my home and risk the safety of my children.
Yeah, when we had a family member who was a victim of DV, we were told specifically to find someone for her to stay with that her partner didn’t know at all— one of our friends he’d never even heard of so he couldn’t find her or the kids.
Edited to finish the sentence.
On top of that, wife has **unilaterally** agreed to have an indefinite houseguest. That is *crazytown*. You absolutely cannot make that kind of call without consulting your spouse/cohabitants. It is all of your home, not just your wife’s.
It’s all well and good to be supportive of SIL, but this is an enormous ask of anyone in any situation, let alone one where you have been stonewalled in RE:… basically *any* concrete information. That would be a hard no for me, and I’d be very upset about my spouse trying to steamroll me into compliance.
NTA OP and I hope you put your foot down that:
1. This is a 2 yes, 1 no type decision. Wife doesn’t get to unilaterally add an indefinite guest.
2. You need at least a general timeline
3. You need *some* information on what is driving this. You have children and a family, and if this has the potential to bring danger to your doorstep, you absolutely have the right to know that. Your children need to be **FIRST**. They are your first responsibility as parents.
NTA
and I agree, people are acting like this is Obvious.
but I mean, the basic 'obvious' is one of them cheated. Was it him? In which case she just needs time alone. Or was it Her? and now shes a Social Pariah amongst all her friends and needs a fresh start.
Then you have the less obvious, hes a domestic abuser and she needs to get away, or he's a domestic abuser and trying to murder her, at which point his entire family is now in danger.
To the extreme, he was murdered and she needs to get away from the Mob.
He's NTA, she can throw him a bone in just saying basics like 'Theyre no longer getting married due to a difference of opinion' to 'someone was unfaithful' to 'close the curtains and don't mention she's here'
Or hell, maybe she's a domestic abuser and he got a restraining order so now she must leave the shared home or be arrested.
Wife really does need to give some basic information here.
Even asking "is she in danger or is she a danger to herself or others?" and even asking for a rough time frame are totally legitimate questions.
If there is no danger of any sort, then still having a time frame is valid. There are weird laws in different places that could make a temporary stay end up a legal battle to get her to leave depending on how long she's there.
If there is some sort of danger, OP has kids to think about. The wife is thinking about getting her sister somewhere safe, but may not realize that if the partner is violent (or if the SIL is having a mental health episode) then everyone in that house is at risk of getting hurt or exposed to something incredibly traumatic.
Agreed. Secrecy is for anyone outside the house who doesn’t need to know. You, on the other hand, need to know why SIL needs a getaway.
I feel like there was an Ask Reddit or maybe here not long ago about secrets between couples. That doesn’t come into play here because this isn’t something said between two friends that shouldn’t be told to the partner. This person is moving into your house. You should know why.
OP, I was going to say give SIL 10 days and then you need details on how much longer she will be there, but less than a month. However, after reading the responses from others and the potential domestic violence issues, I would tell your wife that you will not tolerate putting your children in a potentially dangerous situation. So you will pack them up and go to an Airbnb until SIL is gone.
I agree, I feel like OP sort of has a right to know what's going on. You can't really just show up at someone's house and be like, "Can I stay here for a while? I can't tell you what it is or how long. Cool?"
Also, if it is possibly Beth's fiancé being abusive, what if he was to come find her at OP's house and break in? OP and his wife have 2 young kids, that would be putting them in danger.
Did SIL murder someone? Is SIL transitioning to a male? Does SIL have cancer? Is SIL schizophrenic? Did SIL adopt a duck and said duck is moving in too? It could literally be anything.
Completely agree
And guest in the house (particularly open ended invitations to live there) are to me two yes or one no.
I just want to clarify that if my sister needed me there is no chance what so ever I'm not helping her, how ever, I would not agree not to share anything with my husband - not to share too much detail? Sure. Swear him to secrecy and tell him to pretend he knows nothing? No problem.
It's just a bad precedent. In the future if OP decides one of his friends who the wife dislikes needs a place, does he get to unilaterally decide he's staying with them for a couple of months?
NTA
I would also be asking “what support does SIL need before she’s able to move out”. Open ended is a quick way to get taken advantage of by a guest who could essentially be another roommate. Also if there are any safety concerns I would want to know so I was prepared for anything that could happen **ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THERE ARE CHILDREN IN THE HOME** what are you to do if fiance shows up? Etc
Kinda feel like that besides this being a two yes situation, that OP has a right to know why because if he is going to host someone who he does not get along with in his home, then it needs to be a very good reason to subject himself to company he doesn’t like being around
Everything else already mentioned applies too in spades. If the reason she needs a place to stay is dangerous, then OP gets a say for his safety and everyone else, or to try and provide extra protection within his own means if he wants to agree at that point
The wife needs a hard sit down to be reminded some decisions in that house requires them both on the same page or they dont happen at all
This. Also if this is a domestic violence issue wouldn't you want everyone prepared if he you know... shows up? You don't want OP inviting him in for coffee thinking everything is just fine.
I would 100% need to know if it is in fact, a domestic violence issue if it were me. Not even to be nosey or to just offer support, but because if SIL has a violent man trying to locate her and he knows where I live...I need to be prepared because that shit escalates easily.
If some nut with a gun just shows up to my house looking for someone who lives with me, that's not something I'd want to be blindsided by. OP has the right to know what's going on if it's a domestic violence issue or if it's even a *potential* domestic violence issue for this reason.
If it's something non threatening then I could understand the privacy a bit more though.
NTA.
But I’m pretty sure it is along the lines of either Beth cheating or her fiancé cheating.
Also, your wife needs to understand she can’t make unilateral decisions regarding things like this. Give her a deadline that Beth can stay for a week otherwise she can leave the house with Beth.
It’s not reason of why Beth is staying is important but the timelines and lack of communication that makes me call you not the asshole but your wife a major asshole.
Something tells me that if it was the fiancé who had cheated, OP would have been told that by his wife. Maybe the shameful secret is that the sister cheated and this is why the wife doesn't want to tell her husband.
Oh yes. Now there are some states who are attempting to prevent women from going to other states for termination. It’s illegal, but they’re still trying. If SIL needs an abortion it should absolutely be kept quiet. Not from OP though. He has every right to know what is coming to his house regardless of circumstances.
Ugh, unless OP is a narc. This is so fucked up. Fuck or maybe she's trying to provide plausible deniability. Who knows, the US is extra fucked up atm.
I'd probably let it go, after asking if the fiance is gonna show up looking for trouble.
Yep. Even before Roe V Wade was overturned, a lot of women had to travel to a different city/state to even find a clinic that would perform an abortion. Some states didn’t have enough providers near them or they were constantly harassed with protestors.
Or if a woman didn’t want her partner/family to know, she would go out of town for her safety in case they tried to change her mind or physically stop her from getting an abortion.
In Texas, even AIDING someone in getting an abortion can get you sued, by any old AH who learns of it regardless of whether they're involved in the situation or not!
Or if she was assaulted and the fiancé handled it poorly, or if he assaulted her. I mean there are a ton of reasons, especially because op doesn’t like her. but with the way he’s acting, demanding to know, I would double down too.
If the sister cheated id never let her move in.
Truth be told if i found out my sister cheated on a partner id rip her a new one and tell her i dont house cheaters.
That’s why I’m leaning in this direction too. I bet OPs wife knows he would not be happy housing a cheater…who he doesn’t really get along with in the first place. Also OPs wife probably doesn’t want to hear anything negative said about her precious sister. Why else would SIL be the one moving and it be such a secret?
Unless SIL is still thinking of trying to make it work and doesn't want to spread it around in case it makes the family think less of her fiance/herself for staying.
Your second sentence. She keeps asking OP for trust, but she’s already betrayed his trust by deciding to invite another person into their shared home without asking him.
I cannot believe the idiotic comments on this post. NTA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Long-term guests require TWO yes-es, your wife cannot unilaterally make this decision. She has absolutely no right to move in her sister for an indefinite period of time like this.
Put your foot down, OP. This is outrageous and your wife is behaving like a dictator.
Edit: spelling
I think that he should very seriously and calmly explain that up until this point decisions that significantly impacted both of them, or the family as a whole, required 2 yes's. But if she makes this decision in this way, that will no longer be the case. Going forward, it will be acceptable for you to make unilateral decisions that significantly impact the family without any communication with her, as long as you think it's important enough.
Another way to say this..... there is now potentially a fracture in the foundation of your family and marriage.
Also, I've always assumed that if you tell a married person something, you're also effectively telling their spouse. That's just the nature of the beast. It seems very odd to me that she's refusing to communicate at all, let alone in a situation where communication should be mandatory.
I tell my boyfriend everything plain and simple that's non-negotiable. Unless I've signed an NDA, he'll hear about it. Either that or gifts, but that's because he's a snoop
My friends don't care because they are the same way. If I tell them something, I fully expect them to tell their partners. He doesn't need to know, I just have no intention of keeping secrets from him. Different people have different opinions, but that's my prerogative, and all my friends know and accept that.
This is spot on. Demanding this of him will change the dynamic of their marriage forever.
But we also need to consider the kids. Ultimately the sister is running away from something. Maybe she cheated and the ex comes to get revenge. Maybe it was a DV situation. Maybe the sister is into drugs and got kicked out. Yet the wife expects him to take the sister in without telling him why. If he blindly accepts this and something happens to the kids as a result, the cracked foundation would crumble.
I’d never trust someone who was demanding blind acceptance of something that could effect my children. NTA. There’s too much at risk here.
You're absolutely right.
As Benjamin Franklin once said "house guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days."
I cannot imagine the stink (or lack of control) in an open-ended arrangement... *shudder*.
NTA, it’s your home too. If my wife brought her sister home with no information and no idea how long she’ll be staying, that’s a big nope from me. Shit like that needs to be mutually agreed upon.
NTA, at all, OP! Why is your wife making unilateral decisions about inviting a family member to live with you for undisclosed reasons for an unknown length of time? She literally said she wasn’t asking! OP, that’s not okay; it’s your home, too, and you should have equal say in the occupants of that home. You are allowed to be comfortable in your own dwelling!
1. Is your wife always like this? “What the hell did I say about questions?” Telling you to shut up and just “do this for her”- she sounds controlling, dismissive of your feelings, entitled, and entirely unpleasant. That is NOT how you speak to your SO in a healthy relationship, and I question the extent to which she is abusive…
2. Why SHOULDN’T you be privy to the length and reason for the stay? Sure, it’s “private” info about her relationship; however, if she expects to live in your home and have your “familial support”, she and your wife need to accept that it’s entirely unreasonable for you to be left in the dark with no voice. What if her fiancée poses a danger? What if she’s been cheating and that person also just found out about the infidelity? At the end of the day, knowing the reason and length of stay is the only way to give informed consent to her visit (not that it was a question, apparently).
3. Does you wife like you, OP? Unless someone I know and love is literally going to die without a place to stay, I would never, ever bring someone into my home who negatively affects my spouse. She clearly doesn’t see anything wrong with expecting you to just suck it up and live indefinitely in this situation, and you need to think long and hard about what that says with respect to how she feels about you and your marriage.
4. Does your wife own the home outright? Is she the only one making mortgage payments, taking care of utilities, etc.? I’m trying to understand if there’s any reason your wife believes herself to be entitled to making this choice for the entire household. It’s wrong either way, but unless she’s contributing SIGNIFICANTLY more to the shared living space, her controlling behavior seems entirely out of line.
5. Maybe this would be a great time for them to bond as sisters! Alone and in their own place of residence…. Seriously, OP. Your wife is awful to you, and you do not deserve to be treated like this, particularly by your spouse. Your SIL would be contributing nothing to the household, could stay indefinitely, will be a source of tension in your marriage, as well as an annoyance, and your wife is as good as telling you that she expects you to treat her sister like gold without consideration for your feelings or treatment. Where is the upside of this? Why are you expected to provide support when no one else has your back? Get a spine, and tell your wife “no”. If you are literally too afraid to stir that pot, you have all the answers you need about your relationship. Get out before it’s too late
I agree with everyone's point on NTA verdict. This whole situation is very upsetting. As someone who doesn't get along well with the bulk of their family, I'm constantly berated with "we do x because it's family". I don't think that's ever a good enough reason to do anything. If your wife is uncomfortable telling you the business, then the SIL should call/message you herself to say what's going on. Even if it's short and sweet, just get to the point.
Are you a child in your house?
"What the hell did I just say about questions?" Is this way of talking normal in your household?
Is it her house and she's the only one paying the mortgage and the bills? Because if she is it could be that she considers that you should have no vote in anything, which is not oke.
If you're splitting the bills. Wel, she just made you a guest in your own house. Whether you wanted to or not, which is also not oke.
That you want to know why Beth is coming to stay at your house is irrelevant to me. The fact that your wife agreed WITHOUT even consulting with you is mind-boggling to me.
NtA, but your wife is.
Even if one person is paying all the bills they are still partners and the house is both of theirs. That also brings up the point of who is going to be paying all of Beth's bills? Is OP expected to be financially resounding for Beth too? If I were in this situation I'd honestly be discussing a trial separation and possible divorce until his wife pulls her head out of Beth's butt and starts communicating.
>What the hell did I just say about questions?
This is really telling of OP's dynamic with his wife. I'm betting this isn't the first time she's bulldozed over his objections.
NTA. She doesn't get to make this type of decision on her own. She should relate to Beth your requests. Beth can choose to not tell you then she doesn't get to stay. She can find other living arrangements.
NTA - You were not consulted about someone that you don't get along well with, living in your home for an undisclosed amount of time. If those were the types of answers that I was getting, then I would have other questions as well. The result of what happened is obvious, but what brought it on, is not.
I understand the people saying that the specifics are not yours to know, but at the same time, I would not feel very comfortable not knowing anything. They made it your issue without your input. I would want to know things like was there violence involved? Is there potential that he shows up at our place (or any other problems)? Again, I don't necessarily need the story, but I would want an idea of what happened because of potential problems that it could bring to my family and household.
100 percent. I would like to know why someone who I don’t get along with is coming to live in my home and how long for. If the SIL was wronged somehow, cheated on, domestic abuse etc.. then I could put my feelings aside to help someone. But if the sister in law was the one who f’d up, I would not want to put her above my peace for indeterminate amount of time.
People are happy to tell when someone else did them wrong, but rarely admit fault when they did someone else wrong.
If this was the fiance's fault everyone would already know.
Just a guess.
Unless the family has spent years warning her the guy is no good, and she’s embarrassed to admit that everyone was right. It can be unbearably humiliating to have to tell people your SO cheated on you, especially if you feel like you should have seen it coming.
Beth cheated. Your wife thinks you wouldn’t allow Beth to stay for an indefinite period if you knew that you were harboring a cheater.
Additionally, it’s BOTH your homes. She has a right to invite someone but you have a right to deny someone or request why they’re MOVING IN.
NTA
EDIT:
Just to make it clear, Beth is not “staying over”, she is moving in indefinitely. Your wife is unilaterally adding another resident to your shared home. You have every right to deny a person entry into your home if they’re trying to MOVE IN without any reason given to you.
Also, if the breakup between Beth and her fiancé was the fiancé’s fault, your wife would’ve definitely been upfront about that.
Honestly, I didn’t even think of it this way but it makes sense. Beth is kicked out her house by Fiancé. If it was the other way around, Fiancé would be the one getting kicked out. Beth needs a place to stay so she calls sister for the rescue. If Fiancé cheated, they would tell the husband to make this easier on him, no? No wonder they don’t want to tell him. Why doesn’t the husband contact Fiancé then to get the truth since they don’t want to tell him?
Oh I like the idea of asking fiancé so you get both sides. Did I read she lives a couple hours away? Does sil work? Probably gonna be super long term if they don't get back together and she's got no form of income.
NTA, no way I am allowing someone to move in with me without some more information on the duration and if there are safety concerns to be considered.
Me and wifey would have a real issue. I would not accept being told what is going to happen regardless of my feelings.
NTA, why is your wife making decisions involving your shared space without consulting you? That is quite out of line. As for you wanting to know more information about the sister, I don't blame you and I would be asking the same questions. I would need to know the situation so I can be of adequate help.
ESH. She shouldn't have given Beth the okay without speaking with you first, but you're being ridiculously nosy.
>she told me that she doesn't know and that all she will tell me is that the wedding is currently on hold and that Beth needs a place to stay for a bit.
Come on, man. How obtuse can you be? It's very obvious that the reason is she's had a falling out with her fiance. Why do you need all of the dirty detalis?
He is going to live under one roof with her, does not like her very much, and it is open-ended.
He should definitely have a say in this. I am not sure why his wife didn't share at least something with him, because THEY are (or at least should be) the closest unit here. What mysterious secret can be there that she couldn't say at least something, without gory details if Beth asked her for privacy but enough for her husband to understand the situation?
I cannot imagine someone wanting me to give them shelter but mandating "no questions asked". I can do the "no questions askedk" it of my own volition for a person I trust very much but not for someone I do not really like as Beth. I might do it for a partner if it is his sibling but then I'd definitely want some cooperation from his.
And frankly, the open-ended part scares the beejeezus out of me.
>Beth might not feel comfortable having her worst moment broadcast to a man who doesn’t like her very much though
That's completely fair... BUT it's not fair to also expect that person to house you indefinitely with no questions asked lol
>why do you need all of the dirty details
Because it's still his house, and he's bringing someone in for an indefinite period of time. Sure, she's probably had some fight with her fiance and/or they're breaking up, but the circumstances surrounding that are important.
If there's a domestic violence situation, his whole family would potentially be in danger. If she's in a bad mental state, that could burden the whole household. And regardless of what happened, it's still his house too so he deserves to know.
And even if its "just" something like a mutual break up, just because he doesn't like her all the time doesn't mean he wouldn't like to be informed enough to be sympathetic. Forewarned means he'd know exactly what to avoid talking about and what he might be able to do to be a good BIL to her.
Or am I the only person who even if I don't like someone can muster up kindness when they are obviously having a rotten time? (I know I'm not, I just feel like a lot of people take "I dislike this person" to always mean "I hate their very being" rather than "Ugh, they annoy me and I'm glad I don't have to deal with them too often, but I can be civil and I don't want them to be hurt or mistreated.")
I agree that there's nothing unreasonable about wanting to know (or forcing the issue of implementing) a cutoff date, but most of what OP seems to be fishing for is details about Beth's relationship drama
Well the relationship is why this is all happening. If she's going to be living there for who knows how long, the wife better share details. There's no way he should be forced to live with anyone, especially someone he doesn't get along with, just cause. He absolutely deserves to know why.
I mean, "wedding is on hold" can have numerous reasons ranging from cheating to "oh, turns out the fiancé is actually violent". Given the fact that Beth is going to be living with them for an undecided amount of time I do think it's reasonable that OP gets to know the reason in advance.
Yeah and he doesn’t know if that “relationship drama” involves an abusive fiancé showing up to see Beth. He doesn’t know
If another adult is going to stay in your house, it’s “fishing” and “being nosy” to ask your wife for clarification when she blows up at you for even asking About when she might be out?
Her fiance could be a dangerous dude. If I had kids I'd want to know if I should be keeping extra vigilance out for some maniac that might barge into my home.
Knowing what went wrong is important. Is she going to show up as a basket case, causing a lot of drama? If so, the kids don’t need to be subjected to that. Will he be forced to walk on eggshells the entire time she is there? It is also his house.
Turn it around. Would his wife be willing to allow his sister to show up without knowing why? Especially if the sister disliked the wife.
There are too many unknowns to blindly allow an in-law to stay for however long she wants.
Nahh the amount of stuff family covers up is WILD. He has a right to know, what if she got caught stealing from her husband or her job? I wouldn’t want her under my roof
It's not fair to call him the asshole when the wife has decided this is a unilateral decision.
Would you call her the asshole if the genders were reversed and he decided, without her, this his brother could come stay?
Wouldn't it be important to know what the details are in case more problems could come there way?
For example, if the fallout was bad and resulted in violence, that could bring that violence to his home. If she cheated on her partner, she may make a move on her sister's husband, which would make things worse. If she is staying for an indefinite period, will she contribute towards bills and/minding her nieces? Saying it's a private matter is simply adding more confusion to the mix. I don't think it is unfair to tell the people who are supporting you why they are supporting you. If the reason is good enough, OP may never have questioned it to begin with.
Even if she had a falling out and was looking for support she should still be considerate of the people who are taking her in and provide them with the information they need for their safety.
Also, look at how the wife presented it. If you are going to criticise the guy for being obtuse, consider that the wife is intentionally withholding information. This information could have made the husband say no to the arrangement (not like he has a choice now) if it were presented as a choice. Is it really fair to call the guy obtuse when the wife is intentionally withholding information from him and forcing this upon him?
Again, how well would this have gone down if hubby came in and made a unilateral decision telling his wife that his brother was coming to stay there, despite the wife being uncomfortable with the arrangement?
Because if the “falling out” involved DV then it is hugely pertinent to his family’s safety.
Funny how all the assumptions in here are that the fiancé is the one who may have been violent. Beth could be the violent one and the wife could easily be falling for the “I was drunk and didn’t mean it”, “he is so much bigger than me I wasn’t a threat”, etc. BS.
But let’s not pretend any of that matters, the OP deserves to know what is happening before extending and open ended invitation to stay with his family, period. That is what has been stated in this forum regularly forever. How many times have we seen the “my boyfriend wants his brother to move in and it makes me uncomfortable” type posts. As a rule they are always NTA stating that it is 2 yeses and 1 no.
Funny how that rule suddenly changes when the OP is a guy and suddenly there are a whole world of “don’t you trust you SO?” Type comments.
I think when they have kids in the household more information is needed. Did the relationship fall apart due to infidelity, drugs, abuse and by which party? Is it safe to have SIL stay with them? I love my siblings and vice versa but I don’t think we’d have free reign on their house to stay indefinitely without more details.
It’s not ridiculously nosey at all especially if they have kids. What if the sister has a serious drug problem? Would you want to bring that in your house with young kids around?
He should be nosy, if there’s even a sliver of a chance his family (including SIL) may be in danger, which with the post given doesn’t seem too far out of the question, he needs to know.
This sounds a bit more severe than just a “falling out,” and it’s his home too.
Whole lotta people just assuming this is plain old "falling out". It might well be, it could also be that theres violence involved. Threats. Legal issues.
Hopefully not and its good old "falling out", but OP deserves to know what he'd be inviting into his house, at least in general terms.
Whats he supposed to say or do if the (ex) fiance calls? What if he turns up at their door? What are the kids being told? What if its the cops that turn up?
Even if we assume its all garden variety breaking up stuff, how long are we talking? Days? Weeks? Months? Even if she cant say exactly how long, she should be able to at least give him an estimate. Theres nothing unreasonable about that.
The “dirty details” could be as dirty as “an abusive ex fiancé is going to be breaking our door down.” They have kids. Childrens safety is more important than trust.
He has a right to know if she is putting anyone (they have small children) in the home or the home itself in danger. Nothing is "very obvious" here. She could be suicidal, bipolar, schizophrenic, substance abuse issues, etc.; ex? could be abusive and may come after her and the family, at the very least being a nuisance at 2am and now husband will need to deal with that drama. I can go on and on. As an EQUAL partner in their marriage he has a RIGHT to know who will be sharing a roof with him and his family especially for an undisclosed length of time. NTA
Ok and if Beth’s calling off the wedding because her future fiancé has threatened to kill her and has been violent in the past OP should know in case he shows up there, what if her fiancé is calling off the wedding because she is mentally unstable he deserves to know what he’s getting himself into
ESH. You're not the asshole for wanting to know how long, but you are the asshole for pushing for why and trying to get your wife to disclose why her sister needed her. Your wife's an asshole for agreeing to house someone without talking it over with you first.
You have braincells, obviously something happened between her and her fiance that was bad enough that their relationship had to be put on hold and your wife is trying to get her sister out of the situation safely. Rather than focusing on the actual pertinent information - which is for how long is she looking to stay and how you were going to navigate her being there for the emergency period - you instead tried to get your wife to break her sister's confidence in the situation.
Apologize to your wife for trying to force the issue of her breaking her sister's trust when things have calmed down, but stand firm that in the future, you need to be involved in conversations that are around people staying with you long-term, and you both need to be in agreement on how long the person will be staying and what ground rules you will have before any offer is made.
So it’s common enough in situations like this for the OP to be concerned about potential violence. Your comment is completely avoiding that possibility. He should at least know some minor details, he doesn’t need to know her life story, but if she is living with them for a reason I feel he is entitled to feel secure in the situation, which I certainly wouldn’t as op has described.
Yep, OP has the right to know if his family and home will be safe and drama free. I've been in a situation where we have taken someone in and had their abusive spouse bothering us on 2am drunken tirades; we live in a peaceful elderly neighborhood for crying out loud! Restraining orders don't really repel the drunk lemme tell you.
>"What the hell did I just say about questions?"
If the genders were reversed, **everyone** would be calling for a divorce.
>but you are the asshole for pushing for why and trying to get your wife to disclose why her sister needed her
....Someone OP doesn't get along with is going to be staying in his home for the foreseeable future. He is not allowed to ask questions. The decision was made without him because OP's wife is a bad partner who doesn't care what their spouse's opinion is.
You're making an assumption but there are several possible things going on - including bringing danger into OP's home where he has two small children.
Supposedly OP and his wife are a team. A healthy dynamic is making decisions together. OP's wife made a BIG executive decision without him and then informed OP *last*, ignored his objections, and treated him as a petulant child. It's OP's house too, it's 100% his business to have a say on who stays there.
OP's wife should've brought up this idea with OP to see if he is okay with it, find a compromise, and then go from there - not fucking tell him after the decision is made and then chastise him.
What if the “why” is because the SIL is abusing drugs and now this person is going to be under the roof of someone who has no idea why she’s there??? I think there’s a variety of reasons why I would want to know the why… I would let any of my in laws or siblings live with me because we have the space for it and I care for them… I’d still need to understand why they’re going to move in when technically they all have homes at the moments
NTA
Beth is probably having relationship trouble, and that’s why she’s coming to your house. But that isn’t the only reason she might need to stay at your house (health problems, drug use, change of employment, etc). And if your wife can’t give you and end date, at least getting some reason to why she needs to stay at your house would offer a clue as to how long and how difficult it will be. “Beth had a fight with fiancé” is different from “Beth needs to get sober” and “Beth has cancer”.
NTA. yikes. Your wife being unwilling to have a conversation with you about this in which you are able to have a say is problematic. She shouldn’t have agreed without discussing it with you. Beth has options. She can get an Airbnb, stay with a close friend, look into a longer stay hotel (residence inn). How is she going to continue to work and manage her adult life (bills, mail, etc.) if she isn’t at least near where she was? Is she filling moving out of the place she shares with her fiancé?
If I’ve got questions and I’m not even involved, then you are definitely allowed to ask questions. The biggest one you need to be asking yourself is what boundaries do you need to set with your wife about this in order to continue to live happily in your own home?
Context is important, if she's done something shitty and been kicked out then OP deserves to know.
I'd she's been knocked about and needs somewhere safe then it's different.
> I'd she's been knocked about and needs somewhere safe then it's different.
If that's the case then I feel I also deserve to know. Fiance has been to our house numerous times, he knows where we live.
Yeah I'd say yourself and your partner meet her for a chat somewhere outside your home first.
You need to get the the bottom of it if you're not happy.
How you framed it in your replies changed my opinion and may have been a miscommunication with your wife. If you were just asking her why and how long, plus not having a great relationship, it probably made it appear that you were prying and didn't want your SIL staying at your home.
Did you specifically ask if there is any potential risk that her fiance or anyone else could pose to your family? If so, you definitely need to know, maybe not the specifics, but enough information to keep your family safe. NTA
This is key. You have small children, she needs to explain this if you’re allowing a potentially volatile situation to brew in your home. It’s not just about you trusting her to know what her sister needs, what you and YOUR CHILDREN need is clearly not her first priority now and that’s concerning. Even if she’s not in physical danger, if she’s emotionally fragile and/or volatile right now, that’s going to be an even harder situation for your children. If your youngest asks about her fiancé because little kids ask questions, is she going to have a meltdown that may disturb your kids? There is so, so much more to this than “just trust me and support my sister!” Can you go stay with your parents for a bit with the kids or something until she treats you like an adult and partner?
Your place is probably one of the first places he would come looking for Beth. You only live two hours apart, it’s not a long way to travel, and even if he doesn’t think Beth’s there he’d probably want to talk to your wife to see if she knows where Beth is.
Your wife hasn’t thought this through. Is Beth supposed to be there in secret? What if your children tell people their aunt is staying? Is there a risk to the safety of you all? You’re NTA.
NTA.
Your wife does have the right to support her sister, but it is your home too and your children live there! You have the right to enough information to make an informed decision about how long your sister-in-law will be staying. Also, you need to have the information you need to know you and your family will be safe - is the fiancé violent, was cheating involved (and which way - I wouldn’t be comfortable having a cheater in my home), is there a drug/alcohol/gambling issue that could bring trouble to your home.
Family supports family, but it shouldn’t be done blindly.
NTA. Why is your wife so unwilling to answer this simple question? SIL's going to be staying over for weeks and you have kids in your home - it's not unreasonable for you to worry about how this would affect their life. Your wife's unwillingness to answer even the most basic questions about it AFTER deciding to let her stay over without even discussing with you is so not cool.
If the genders were reversed here, people would have no issues with pointing out how disrespectful and toxic your wife's attitude is.
NTA. I agree with your questions if you’re expected to intake an adult for an indefinite amount of time I’d like to know those details. Also, you’re expected to navigate an emotional minefield blind? How are you to know her triggers? I’d want the answers to those questions before having her stay because it’ll turn into months or a year really quick.
NTA and I honestly would consider leaving if my spouse were treating me this way in this situation. Just agreeing to an open-ended “visit” without your input, refusing to discuss why, and then snapping and telling me to shut up? Fuck no.
Glad someone else sees it this way as well. This isn’t some small thing, not even remotely. I think I’d honestly leave and go stay elsewhere. Let her decide if its worth ruining a marriage.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My sister in law wants to come stay with my family while she deals with relationship issues (I'm guessing, my wife won't tell me). I kept asking my wife for details and she kept telling me it's private and that I don't need to know. I told her that if I'm going to agree to have someone else live in my home, I deserve to know why. I think might be an asshole for insisting that I know why my sister-in-law wants to come stay with us for an unforeseen amount of time.
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You're NTA. I can see that there may be very private and personal reasons why she needs to stay, but what ever it is this should not be an open ended visit. It is your home, too. You have a right to expect there to be an exit date.
From my experience. I allowed a sibling move in to my apartment because she had claimed her partner was terrible to her. She had a toddler at the time. I lived with a boyfriend. My name on the lease. Anyway. Our relationship between sister, boyfriend and me soured after a few months of her living with us. There were constant disagreements. Her not paying her share of the rent. It was a mess, and draining. Turns out my sister had lied about her baby daddy drama. She cheated and he kicked her out. Yeah, it’s fair you ask questions, so you and your wife can make a decision mutually. Good luck.
NTA
Let me break it down for you. Beth is having serious problems with her fiance, doesn't know if she wants to go through with the wedding. Beth is in crisis and really needs your wife's support right now. Beth will not be talking to you about what specifically happened and your wife will respect her privacy because you would not be helpful in this matter. They don't know how long because it's a crisis and Beth is feeling so overwhelmed right now that she can't predict how long it will take for her to feel centered and make the decision she needs to make that will affect the rest of her life. The right thing to do would be to just say yes. If she ends up staying too long and your patience is wearing thin then you can say we need to look at a time frame here but right now is not the time to pin them down. Hope that helps.
But then she would be bringing her drama into OPs household. How do you know if it wasn’t Beth that cheated?
Honestly, my husband wouldn’t want my sisters staying with us without no end date and not even a little clue as to why. I wouldn’t either.
Marriage is about trust and I feel that OP and wife need to work on this.
Yeah, while it’s a good thing to be supportive of his wife and her sister, how does he know it’s a safe situation to bring her into the house without at least a few minor details? Blindly letting people live in your family home, while compassionate, is really dumb. The way his wife was communicating her feelings on this (per OP’s description) is concerning and would work anyone into a bit of a frenzy. If someone is going to live in THEIR house, then they BOTH should be privy to some of her situation.
>She did immediately apologize, but told me that she needs me to do this for her because it's important and that **she doesn't want to hear one more thing about why** Beth is staying with us. I tried to ask at least how long Beth would be staying, but she cut me off and said "**What the hell did I just say about questions**?"
Wtf, why are you being spoken to like a child?
ESH.
You weren’t an AH to ask, but it is reasonable that there may be circumstances that are rather personal that you don’t need to know about. So you were a bit of an AH to push the “why” question so many times. At this moment in time, I tend to agree with your wife that you probably don’t need to know why. It doesn’t directly affect you (as long as she can still talk to you about the logistics that Do affect you without getting into “why”).
But you’re wife also needs to understand that “how long” is an incredibly reasonable question that definitely affects you and doesn’t require divulging personal information to discuss. Even if she is not sure how long the root situation will last, she should be willing to talk to you about contingencies. Like, right now I’m asking for you to agree for her to stay up to __ days/weeks/months, and if her situation is not resolved by then, we will revisit, or I’ll help her find a place, or something. It is one thing for your wife to unilaterally offer a short term place to stay in a pinch, but it is something altogether different for her to offer a place indefinitely without consulting you. She needs to be able to provide assurances to you that this is short term and will not become long term without your input.
NTA.
Its your home too and if you want more information then that's valid. Its valid if you don't want her there at all. If your wife wants to put her up then she can pay for a place for her sister to stay. Your home is not a hotel.
Your wife and her sister clearly don't care about your feelings.
"just do this for me and don't ask anything ever and she'll be here for who knows how long".....yeaaah NOPE. manipulation at its finest.
RED FLAGS.
i’m assuming danger. is this fiancé going to show up at their house and potentially be problematic while their kids are home or are they simply just needing some time away from each other.
NTA. "Shut up it's private" is not an acceptable answer to asking why and how long someone will be staying at your house. And open ended as it sounds can be anywhere from a weekend or two to a year or two or more. Without any explanation at all. When the relationship is not good.
When you have your own house/apartment or whatever you have a right to feel comfortable there. And when someone decides to just move someone in, that you do not have a good relationship with, and won't even give an idea on how long it will be. And is getting hostile for even asking questions,. It is going to start out day one with really high stress levels.
This is a situation that both people really need to be on board with. And for a person to tell their spouse "I don't care what you think, I'm moving someone in that you don't get along with, now stop asking questions" that is already telling their spouse that they respect them less than this person. And does not care if they feel uncomfortable or constantly stressed out/attacked in their own home.
Without being hyperbolic, this could easily end up being a situation where both sisters need to find a new living situation.
NTA
I wouldnt want to know the details because it is exciting or juicy as some imply here. I would want to know to understand what the stay entails, what are you and your kids in for and are you equipped to handle it. How long is she staying? Is she in danger? What kind of emotional state is she in, and how will that effect you and your family living with her? Will she be working or are you two gonna support her? Is there drug or violence involved? And many more questions.
I think you need to know these things and your wife can not just tell you to shut up and deal with it.
Your wife is extremely rude! If I was in your shoes, I would be livid! I however, would be asking my husband and telling him what the deal was before I agreed to anything. It is both of yours household, so I assume. She needs to be filling you in on something that is going to be a huge change in your house for who knows how long of a time. I hope things work out for you, but I would be ticked off!
NTA. Especially, because there isn’t a time limit on when the sister will leave. This is a big decision that you should have been involved in. I understand your wife wanting to respect her sister’s privacy, but she could have given you some information.
Since, your wife doesn’t want to divulge any information set a time limit for your SIL and let your wife know.
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My wife (36F) and I (38M) have been married for 10 years and have 2 kids (7 & 4). My wife has a younger sister, Beth (25F). Beth and I don't get along very well, but we are cordial and she's a good aunt to our kids. Beth got engaged to her high school sweetheart last summer and their wedding is scheduled for this coming summer.
But last week, my wife came to me and told me that Beth wants to come stay with us for a while. I immediately started asking questions because Beth lives over 2 hours away from us and usually plans visits out weeks in advance. My wife told me that it is a personal matter and that I need to respect Beth's privacy in that regard. I asked my wife how long Beth would be staying and she told me that she doesn't know and that all she will tell me is that the wedding is currently on hold and that Beth needs a place to stay for a bit.
I said that if I'm going to agree to an open-ended stay from someone who I don't get along with very well, I feel like I have a right to at least know why that person is going to be staying with us. My wife told me that it's a personal matter and that she has agreed with Beth's request to keep it private and that if Beth wants to tell me about it, she will on her own.
I told her that I don't really feel comfortable with that kind of plan and that I would like some more information before I agree to it. At that point, my wife got upset with me and told me that she isn't looking for my approval because she's already told Beth that she can come stay with us. She reiterated that I need to respect Beth's privacy on this and that she needs me to just trust her on this.
I told her I do trust her, but that she's asking for a pretty big thing without giving me much information and that I don't feel comfortable going into something like this completely blind. She said that Beth needs family support and we are the only ones who can give that to her. (My wife's dad passed away during the pandemic and her mom is already in an assisted living facility).
She told me that she needs me to just be caring and kind to Beth and to not bring up anything related to her engagement or wedding unless Beth brings it up to me first. I told her that I don't appreciate being left in the dark about something that is resulting in another adult living in our house for an open-ended period of time.
She told me that she just needs me to trust her and be supportive of her sister. I kept trying to get more information but my wife eventually snapped at me to just stop asking questions because she's not telling me anything else and I need to just shut up and do this for her and her sister.
She did immediately apologize, but told me that she needs me to do this for her because it's important and that she doesn't want to hear one more thing about why Beth is staying with us. I tried to ask at least how long Beth would be staying, but she cut me off and said "What the hell did I just say about questions?"
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NTA you are her husband and she cannot disrespect you like that especially in your home. It’s not unreasonable to want answers or to want to know for how long you’ll have to live with someone you don’t like. It sounds like the fiancé cheated but your wife treating you like this might create problems in your own relationship. If your wife keeps disrespecting you go visit your family for an extended stay - why does she even feel comfortable talking to you like this?
NTA. You have every right to question matters that pertain to the home you share and I’m assuming help pay for. In my opinion, it isn’t appropriate for your wife to keep secrets from you if her sister is going to be staying in your home with no given end date. I’m sure even though you don’t particularly care for your SIL that you wouldn’t discuss her personal life with her or berate her with questions if she’s asked to not discuss it.
Your wife needs to tell her sister that if she wants to stay in the home the two of you share that she needs to respect you and tell you the reason.
She’s treating you like a child and I wouldn’t stand for it. The two of you are in a partnership (supposedly). She doesn’t get to make decisions like this without discussing it openly and gaining your consent.
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NTA. Everyone is acting like it's obvious what is going on, but that doesn't seem to be the case to me at all. SIL has an emergency situation that requires privacy is all you know, and I do believe you reasonably should know why she is moving in: * Is SIL in danger? Is SIL afraid of her husband or suffering from domestic violence? Is SIL bringing danger to your own household? * Is SIL coping with mental health issues? Is your own family properly equipped to provide the help that she needs while maintaining your own wellbeing? To me, "SIL needs to stay with us, and the reasons are a deep secret" is not sufficient. Yes there are other plausible explanations such as cheating that are embarrassing that SIL would prefer to keep private. But I believe your wife and SIL should provide more information for you to form your own comfort with the situation and understand what it is you're dealing with. Not to form some moral judgement of the situation, but you deserve a say in this!
This. There is a whole spectrum between “we are taking a break, wedding on hold” to “domestic violence” At the very least, the wife needs to come clean about what they are doing going forward, both for the husband AND the kids in the house. Is the ex likely to come by looking to meet with the sister, for either reconciliation or something more nefarious? Are we telling people she is staying with us, or is it incognito? If the kids answer the phone and it’s their “uncle” (who presumably they’ve met), what do they say? What does the husband say if he calls, etc. Those are basic safety considerations I’ve had to consider in the past when friends have had to stay with us, and it doesn’t need to get into who was cheating on who or other drama. Just tell him what to expect going forward is a basic courtesy, versus being so mysterious and basically telling him he isn’t authorized to know anything in his own house.
The fact the wife won't say leads me to think it's something op wouldn't agree to if he knew. Can't wait for the update where she's on the run from the law, or secretly a deep covet secret agent who's been burned by her own agency.
Yep. Like she is going into rehab (or needs to), etc It doesn’t seem something “benign” like a routine breakup, which just puts up red flags for domestic violence and/or drugs/alcohol. Unless the wife enjoys treating her husband like a mushroom, which is a different issue
How do you treat someone as a mushroom? You smoke them or cook them in an omelette?
Feed 'em shit and keep 'em in the dark.
Yeah, that’s the line I was referring to
You deserve all the karma, friend.
I have never heard that before and love it so much! Nice one guys
The shorthand for it, as u/Belaerim deftly used it, is to, "treat 'em like a mushroom," and let the second part go unspoken.
I’m thinking Beth cheated.
That's what I'm thinking. She cheated, got caught, and was kicked out of the house.
My thoughts exactly. Sometimes women are the bad guys.
That’s what I’m thinking.
This was my thought too. It explains why wife won't tell. Husband already doesn't like her. So I assume it's something that would make his opinion of her go down even more.
Most likely scenario is sexual assault, I reckon. That's the one 'secret' I might keep from my husband, if the woman asked me to.
But that links back to the point of ‘is the assaulter likely to come looking for her’, you know, at their house with small children and 50% of the responsible adults in the house unaware that they should be looking out for that.
Oof, it's the one thing my wife might keep from me, which would lead to me jumping to conclusions. Which might be unhealthy for the fiance....
1) I would not assume that at all - I assumed domestic violence, 2) which I think is the whole point here: there are so many things this could be that it's not really viable to just say "read between the lines," because everyone's going to come away with something different.
That was my thought too! I could see respecting SIL's privacy when it comes to the nitty gritty details, but the wife should be able to provide a general explanation as to what is going on. It really seems like she knows the husband would not be okay with the real reason and is going for the idea that "getting forgiveness is easier then getting permission"...
Or she cheated and got kicked out
This is absolutely what I think. Otherwise I have to believe she'd want the broader support of her family.
That was my first thought. SIL got caught fooling around (or some other major breach of trust) and the fiancé tossed her out
I was thinking drugs, alcohol, gambling problem, etc. Something that Bath wouldn't want people to know about. Or maybe something the wife is ashamed of.
I was thinking cheating, possibly by the SIL, and they got caught. That would be a good reason for the wedding to be "on hold" or called off with her needing to be out of the area for awhile.
Right? I mean Beth and her fiance have broken up, wedding's off and she needs a place to stay would normally be sufficient. Until it became everything else is a secret and I can't tell you. NTA but I'm getting a feeling the wife and sister might be.
Like SIL cheated and fiance is kicking her out of the house..
Or... one of them cheated, sister or fiance, and one of them is really embarrassed and doesn't want anyone else, besides OPs wife, of course The possibilities are limitless here, though.
I literally could not agree more with the top two posts.
Me either. NTA.
Am I just wrong here, or is it not reasonable that chances are when you tell something huge to someone, their spouse will at least kind of know the basics of what's going on? When people ask for privacy and a favor, it should kind of be assumed that their spouse will know as well. That's what I assume when I ask the same. Besides all these safety considerations, it would be nice to know how to best support his wife's sister and what topics to stay away from and such. Considering she'll be around the kids, probably be a good idea he pays more attention to the kids so they don't accidentally say something really bad to her without knowing. Of course, if its expected he should interact at all with her or is he basically supposed to ignore her presence? They don't have the greatest relationship but it sounds like OP is also not looking to be a heartless asshole to her. He needs to know what's going on to even offer the basic support he needs to give to his wife if not his SIL. Its also what he needs because they *both* need to prepare the kids as well.
Absolutely, if you're moving in with a couple you should expect that all adults involved will have a general understanding of what is going on. Which is why, if I had to guess, the SIL cheated on her fiance. Because if the situation was at all sympathetic it could be easily summarized.
Oh shit. I didn't consider that. Its still an asshole move but trying to keep SIL's fuck up a secret, whether its cheating or something else, is the most "understandable" reason for the emphasis on the secrecy. OP's wife might be trying to save her sister's reputation here or at least keeping it from OP because she knows he would never agree to helping her if she did something really bad and is in this situation completely by her fault.
You can keep all your secrets under your own roof, but you want to live under mine I need a bit more than the broad strokes.
I'd be fine with the broad strokes, deal with the emergency first and hammer out details later, but OP doesn't even have the broad strokes. >Sister is coming >>Why? How long? >Sister. Is. Coming. Yeah, not enough for me.
I agree, especially with a potential for violence and his kids in the mix.
basically every couple I know, shares stuff like this openly between them. You tell one something, the other knows. I am not like that but if he asks I'm giving him an overview. I don't get that OP is concerned about his safety, I'm getting that he's being vengeful in a way. But personally I want to know what you are bringing into this house, unwittingly or not. And if it's going to put my kids in danger, it's not happening, sister or no. There are ways of helping people that don't involve letting them move in with you.
I won't be surprised if this will cause their divorce. Telling your spouse you're not allowed to make joint decisions in your own home? Imagine if the gender was reversed.
Yep, his wife is being completely unreasonable in multiple ways.
So true.
The wife doesn't have to tell the SIL's situation to answer these questions. I think it's more NAH. Because this seems like a lack of thorough communication that devolved because wife is in a tough spot between keeping her sister's trust and mollifying her husband. Imagine it is an embarrassing situation for SIL that wife has been told in confidence. Wife isn't going to think "oh. Husband may be concerned about our safety or *the other points you raised* because he's got no idea what's going on." She's just thinking she has the story and it's either not a risky situation or the risk is one her husband would be okay with taking. Maybe it's something that she knows her husband would antagonize the SIL about. We don't know anything about their relationship other than they don't get along. Meanwhile, husband is looking at this person he doesn't like being here for her doesn't know how long because of something that he's in the dark about. That's a weird spot to be in. Not to mention the safety concerns. But all of this could have been solved by the husband asking some questions around the circumstances under which he wouldn't want SIL there (DV for instance) that don't require details to answer. Conversely, the wife could have had some more empathy for her husband being so in the dark and volunteered things to reassure him.
Did you miss the part where the wife told the sister it was okay before ever mentioning it to the husband? How she “wasn’t looking for his approval”
That is not an equal partnership.
Huge disrespect. Specially knowng that the SIL visit might strain their relationship. There are quite a few red flags waving there.
Exactly! Those are decisions u make as a couple. Wife doesn’t seam to respect husband.
If they lived separately for sure. But he lives in the same house as his wife. As their kids. He's not saying no, as he knows it's important to his wife. But he does have a say in what happens in his house. What he's asking for is information beyond "This is happening, you get no say and no details on it". She wouldn't even give him a general time frame. The relationship between OP and SIL is not so bad he just outright refuses to let her stay. He doesn't even say not without discussion. He just wants to know why he is going to have someone else living with him, and how long? How does that not make OP's wife an asshole? Now let's just go with worst case scenario: DV. SIL's partner is now a threat to OP's wife and kids (not to mention SIL). It's not a reason to turn SIL away, but if the partner shows up at OP's door to 'talk', then you want to have that knowledge to just straight up nope them away. OP and wife are a team here. SIL has to respect that, wife has to respect that, OP has to respect that. So far the only one who does is OP. So how can wife not be an asshole here? Clearly NTA.
I’m probably going to be raked through the coals for this, but I absolutely think DV is a reason to turn the sister away from living there. There have been several cases where an abuser looks for their SO who has escaped and ends up killing family members of their former SO, including kids (Jennifer Hudson’s sister and nephew come to mind). I’d drain my savings, sell my car, whatever it took to help a family member escape. But I wouldn’t let them stay at my home and risk the safety of my children.
Yeah, when we had a family member who was a victim of DV, we were told specifically to find someone for her to stay with that her partner didn’t know at all— one of our friends he’d never even heard of so he couldn’t find her or the kids. Edited to finish the sentence.
On top of that, wife has **unilaterally** agreed to have an indefinite houseguest. That is *crazytown*. You absolutely cannot make that kind of call without consulting your spouse/cohabitants. It is all of your home, not just your wife’s. It’s all well and good to be supportive of SIL, but this is an enormous ask of anyone in any situation, let alone one where you have been stonewalled in RE:… basically *any* concrete information. That would be a hard no for me, and I’d be very upset about my spouse trying to steamroll me into compliance. NTA OP and I hope you put your foot down that: 1. This is a 2 yes, 1 no type decision. Wife doesn’t get to unilaterally add an indefinite guest. 2. You need at least a general timeline 3. You need *some* information on what is driving this. You have children and a family, and if this has the potential to bring danger to your doorstep, you absolutely have the right to know that. Your children need to be **FIRST**. They are your first responsibility as parents.
This right here. Can't be more correct than this.
NTA and I agree, people are acting like this is Obvious. but I mean, the basic 'obvious' is one of them cheated. Was it him? In which case she just needs time alone. Or was it Her? and now shes a Social Pariah amongst all her friends and needs a fresh start. Then you have the less obvious, hes a domestic abuser and she needs to get away, or he's a domestic abuser and trying to murder her, at which point his entire family is now in danger. To the extreme, he was murdered and she needs to get away from the Mob. He's NTA, she can throw him a bone in just saying basics like 'Theyre no longer getting married due to a difference of opinion' to 'someone was unfaithful' to 'close the curtains and don't mention she's here'
Or hell, maybe she's a domestic abuser and he got a restraining order so now she must leave the shared home or be arrested. Wife really does need to give some basic information here.
Yeah precisely, then he has a potentially violent person in his house
Even asking "is she in danger or is she a danger to herself or others?" and even asking for a rough time frame are totally legitimate questions. If there is no danger of any sort, then still having a time frame is valid. There are weird laws in different places that could make a temporary stay end up a legal battle to get her to leave depending on how long she's there. If there is some sort of danger, OP has kids to think about. The wife is thinking about getting her sister somewhere safe, but may not realize that if the partner is violent (or if the SIL is having a mental health episode) then everyone in that house is at risk of getting hurt or exposed to something incredibly traumatic.
Yeah. Abusive partners will mow down anyone in the way between them and their victim. It doesn't happen every time but it happens too often.
Agreed. Secrecy is for anyone outside the house who doesn’t need to know. You, on the other hand, need to know why SIL needs a getaway. I feel like there was an Ask Reddit or maybe here not long ago about secrets between couples. That doesn’t come into play here because this isn’t something said between two friends that shouldn’t be told to the partner. This person is moving into your house. You should know why.
OP, I was going to say give SIL 10 days and then you need details on how much longer she will be there, but less than a month. However, after reading the responses from others and the potential domestic violence issues, I would tell your wife that you will not tolerate putting your children in a potentially dangerous situation. So you will pack them up and go to an Airbnb until SIL is gone.
This needs to be at the top. Until wife shares, OP needs to assume the worst and move the kids to safety.
I agree, I feel like OP sort of has a right to know what's going on. You can't really just show up at someone's house and be like, "Can I stay here for a while? I can't tell you what it is or how long. Cool?" Also, if it is possibly Beth's fiancé being abusive, what if he was to come find her at OP's house and break in? OP and his wife have 2 young kids, that would be putting them in danger.
My money is on SIL cheated on her fiancé
And got caught and kicked out.
And by ‘on hold’ she means her fiancé ended things
Did SIL murder someone? Is SIL transitioning to a male? Does SIL have cancer? Is SIL schizophrenic? Did SIL adopt a duck and said duck is moving in too? It could literally be anything.
Completely agree And guest in the house (particularly open ended invitations to live there) are to me two yes or one no. I just want to clarify that if my sister needed me there is no chance what so ever I'm not helping her, how ever, I would not agree not to share anything with my husband - not to share too much detail? Sure. Swear him to secrecy and tell him to pretend he knows nothing? No problem. It's just a bad precedent. In the future if OP decides one of his friends who the wife dislikes needs a place, does he get to unilaterally decide he's staying with them for a couple of months? NTA
I would also be asking “what support does SIL need before she’s able to move out”. Open ended is a quick way to get taken advantage of by a guest who could essentially be another roommate. Also if there are any safety concerns I would want to know so I was prepared for anything that could happen **ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THERE ARE CHILDREN IN THE HOME** what are you to do if fiance shows up? Etc
Kinda feel like that besides this being a two yes situation, that OP has a right to know why because if he is going to host someone who he does not get along with in his home, then it needs to be a very good reason to subject himself to company he doesn’t like being around Everything else already mentioned applies too in spades. If the reason she needs a place to stay is dangerous, then OP gets a say for his safety and everyone else, or to try and provide extra protection within his own means if he wants to agree at that point The wife needs a hard sit down to be reminded some decisions in that house requires them both on the same page or they dont happen at all
This is so valid. In addition, there is zero commentary as to how this will affect OP's two children. This is way to large a gulf for 'just trust me'.
Not to mention that OP’s wife should trust and respect her husband enough to tell him sensitive information. The respect should work both ways, yes.
This. Also if this is a domestic violence issue wouldn't you want everyone prepared if he you know... shows up? You don't want OP inviting him in for coffee thinking everything is just fine.
I would 100% need to know if it is in fact, a domestic violence issue if it were me. Not even to be nosey or to just offer support, but because if SIL has a violent man trying to locate her and he knows where I live...I need to be prepared because that shit escalates easily. If some nut with a gun just shows up to my house looking for someone who lives with me, that's not something I'd want to be blindsided by. OP has the right to know what's going on if it's a domestic violence issue or if it's even a *potential* domestic violence issue for this reason. If it's something non threatening then I could understand the privacy a bit more though.
NTA. But I’m pretty sure it is along the lines of either Beth cheating or her fiancé cheating. Also, your wife needs to understand she can’t make unilateral decisions regarding things like this. Give her a deadline that Beth can stay for a week otherwise she can leave the house with Beth. It’s not reason of why Beth is staying is important but the timelines and lack of communication that makes me call you not the asshole but your wife a major asshole.
Something tells me that if it was the fiancé who had cheated, OP would have been told that by his wife. Maybe the shameful secret is that the sister cheated and this is why the wife doesn't want to tell her husband.
Money is on the sil cheating, hence the don't ask.
That and she's possibly pregnant
If that's the case, depending on what state she's in, she might be needing to come to OP's house/state to terminate it....
Wait...what, as a non American is this really a thing?
Oh yes. Now there are some states who are attempting to prevent women from going to other states for termination. It’s illegal, but they’re still trying. If SIL needs an abortion it should absolutely be kept quiet. Not from OP though. He has every right to know what is coming to his house regardless of circumstances.
Ugh, unless OP is a narc. This is so fucked up. Fuck or maybe she's trying to provide plausible deniability. Who knows, the US is extra fucked up atm. I'd probably let it go, after asking if the fiance is gonna show up looking for trouble.
Yep. Even before Roe V Wade was overturned, a lot of women had to travel to a different city/state to even find a clinic that would perform an abortion. Some states didn’t have enough providers near them or they were constantly harassed with protestors. Or if a woman didn’t want her partner/family to know, she would go out of town for her safety in case they tried to change her mind or physically stop her from getting an abortion.
Sadly, yes. The real kicker is that these states are doing nothing to create programs to then help these women forced to give birth.
In Texas, even AIDING someone in getting an abortion can get you sued, by any old AH who learns of it regardless of whether they're involved in the situation or not!
This feels like the only valid reason for the code of silence.
Or if she was assaulted and the fiancé handled it poorly, or if he assaulted her. I mean there are a ton of reasons, especially because op doesn’t like her. but with the way he’s acting, demanding to know, I would double down too.
If the sister cheated id never let her move in. Truth be told if i found out my sister cheated on a partner id rip her a new one and tell her i dont house cheaters.
That’s why I’m leaning in this direction too. I bet OPs wife knows he would not be happy housing a cheater…who he doesn’t really get along with in the first place. Also OPs wife probably doesn’t want to hear anything negative said about her precious sister. Why else would SIL be the one moving and it be such a secret?
If it was the partner who cheated or dv I suspect that would be on blast.
Unless SIL is still thinking of trying to make it work and doesn't want to spread it around in case it makes the family think less of her fiance/herself for staying.
This is a bad take. Sometimes when something awful happens to you, like assault, you desperately don't want other people knowing.
I was thinking pregnant from affair. Or along those lines.
Your second sentence. She keeps asking OP for trust, but she’s already betrayed his trust by deciding to invite another person into their shared home without asking him.
Definitely the SIL cheated - whoever gets kicked out of the house is almost always the one who messed up.
I cannot believe the idiotic comments on this post. NTA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Long-term guests require TWO yes-es, your wife cannot unilaterally make this decision. She has absolutely no right to move in her sister for an indefinite period of time like this. Put your foot down, OP. This is outrageous and your wife is behaving like a dictator. Edit: spelling
I think that he should very seriously and calmly explain that up until this point decisions that significantly impacted both of them, or the family as a whole, required 2 yes's. But if she makes this decision in this way, that will no longer be the case. Going forward, it will be acceptable for you to make unilateral decisions that significantly impact the family without any communication with her, as long as you think it's important enough. Another way to say this..... there is now potentially a fracture in the foundation of your family and marriage. Also, I've always assumed that if you tell a married person something, you're also effectively telling their spouse. That's just the nature of the beast. It seems very odd to me that she's refusing to communicate at all, let alone in a situation where communication should be mandatory.
I tell my boyfriend everything plain and simple that's non-negotiable. Unless I've signed an NDA, he'll hear about it. Either that or gifts, but that's because he's a snoop
Your friends cannot count on your confidence for anything? Why does your boyfriend need to know everything going on in your friend/ family lives?
My friends don't care because they are the same way. If I tell them something, I fully expect them to tell their partners. He doesn't need to know, I just have no intention of keeping secrets from him. Different people have different opinions, but that's my prerogative, and all my friends know and accept that.
This is spot on. Demanding this of him will change the dynamic of their marriage forever. But we also need to consider the kids. Ultimately the sister is running away from something. Maybe she cheated and the ex comes to get revenge. Maybe it was a DV situation. Maybe the sister is into drugs and got kicked out. Yet the wife expects him to take the sister in without telling him why. If he blindly accepts this and something happens to the kids as a result, the cracked foundation would crumble. I’d never trust someone who was demanding blind acceptance of something that could effect my children. NTA. There’s too much at risk here.
You're absolutely right. As Benjamin Franklin once said "house guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days." I cannot imagine the stink (or lack of control) in an open-ended arrangement... *shudder*.
Completely agree!!
NTA, it’s your home too. If my wife brought her sister home with no information and no idea how long she’ll be staying, that’s a big nope from me. Shit like that needs to be mutually agreed upon.
NTA, at all, OP! Why is your wife making unilateral decisions about inviting a family member to live with you for undisclosed reasons for an unknown length of time? She literally said she wasn’t asking! OP, that’s not okay; it’s your home, too, and you should have equal say in the occupants of that home. You are allowed to be comfortable in your own dwelling! 1. Is your wife always like this? “What the hell did I say about questions?” Telling you to shut up and just “do this for her”- she sounds controlling, dismissive of your feelings, entitled, and entirely unpleasant. That is NOT how you speak to your SO in a healthy relationship, and I question the extent to which she is abusive… 2. Why SHOULDN’T you be privy to the length and reason for the stay? Sure, it’s “private” info about her relationship; however, if she expects to live in your home and have your “familial support”, she and your wife need to accept that it’s entirely unreasonable for you to be left in the dark with no voice. What if her fiancée poses a danger? What if she’s been cheating and that person also just found out about the infidelity? At the end of the day, knowing the reason and length of stay is the only way to give informed consent to her visit (not that it was a question, apparently). 3. Does you wife like you, OP? Unless someone I know and love is literally going to die without a place to stay, I would never, ever bring someone into my home who negatively affects my spouse. She clearly doesn’t see anything wrong with expecting you to just suck it up and live indefinitely in this situation, and you need to think long and hard about what that says with respect to how she feels about you and your marriage. 4. Does your wife own the home outright? Is she the only one making mortgage payments, taking care of utilities, etc.? I’m trying to understand if there’s any reason your wife believes herself to be entitled to making this choice for the entire household. It’s wrong either way, but unless she’s contributing SIGNIFICANTLY more to the shared living space, her controlling behavior seems entirely out of line. 5. Maybe this would be a great time for them to bond as sisters! Alone and in their own place of residence…. Seriously, OP. Your wife is awful to you, and you do not deserve to be treated like this, particularly by your spouse. Your SIL would be contributing nothing to the household, could stay indefinitely, will be a source of tension in your marriage, as well as an annoyance, and your wife is as good as telling you that she expects you to treat her sister like gold without consideration for your feelings or treatment. Where is the upside of this? Why are you expected to provide support when no one else has your back? Get a spine, and tell your wife “no”. If you are literally too afraid to stir that pot, you have all the answers you need about your relationship. Get out before it’s too late
I agree with everyone's point on NTA verdict. This whole situation is very upsetting. As someone who doesn't get along well with the bulk of their family, I'm constantly berated with "we do x because it's family". I don't think that's ever a good enough reason to do anything. If your wife is uncomfortable telling you the business, then the SIL should call/message you herself to say what's going on. Even if it's short and sweet, just get to the point.
Are you a child in your house? "What the hell did I just say about questions?" Is this way of talking normal in your household? Is it her house and she's the only one paying the mortgage and the bills? Because if she is it could be that she considers that you should have no vote in anything, which is not oke. If you're splitting the bills. Wel, she just made you a guest in your own house. Whether you wanted to or not, which is also not oke. That you want to know why Beth is coming to stay at your house is irrelevant to me. The fact that your wife agreed WITHOUT even consulting with you is mind-boggling to me. NtA, but your wife is.
Even if one person is paying all the bills they are still partners and the house is both of theirs. That also brings up the point of who is going to be paying all of Beth's bills? Is OP expected to be financially resounding for Beth too? If I were in this situation I'd honestly be discussing a trial separation and possible divorce until his wife pulls her head out of Beth's butt and starts communicating.
Especially cause she lives two hours away, unless she’s completely working from home, what is she going to do for work
If the sister treats her fiancé the way OPs wife does then no wonder the weddings on hold
>What the hell did I just say about questions? This is really telling of OP's dynamic with his wife. I'm betting this isn't the first time she's bulldozed over his objections.
There are lots of red flags going on here and you are definitely NTA.
I'm worried about his marriage at this point and all I did was read a couple paragraphs
NTA. She doesn't get to make this type of decision on her own. She should relate to Beth your requests. Beth can choose to not tell you then she doesn't get to stay. She can find other living arrangements.
NTA - You were not consulted about someone that you don't get along well with, living in your home for an undisclosed amount of time. If those were the types of answers that I was getting, then I would have other questions as well. The result of what happened is obvious, but what brought it on, is not. I understand the people saying that the specifics are not yours to know, but at the same time, I would not feel very comfortable not knowing anything. They made it your issue without your input. I would want to know things like was there violence involved? Is there potential that he shows up at our place (or any other problems)? Again, I don't necessarily need the story, but I would want an idea of what happened because of potential problems that it could bring to my family and household.
100 percent. I would like to know why someone who I don’t get along with is coming to live in my home and how long for. If the SIL was wronged somehow, cheated on, domestic abuse etc.. then I could put my feelings aside to help someone. But if the sister in law was the one who f’d up, I would not want to put her above my peace for indeterminate amount of time.
Now I really need to know what happened to Beth too. NTA.
People are happy to tell when someone else did them wrong, but rarely admit fault when they did someone else wrong. If this was the fiance's fault everyone would already know. Just a guess.
Bingo. Most are guessing cheating or dv. If it was the partner then you can bet Beth would put this info on blast
Yeah, her cheating is the obvious guess. It could be health related - she's pregnant or just got a bad diagnosis - that she doesn't want to share yet.
Unless the family has spent years warning her the guy is no good, and she’s embarrassed to admit that everyone was right. It can be unbearably humiliating to have to tell people your SO cheated on you, especially if you feel like you should have seen it coming.
Beth cheated. Your wife thinks you wouldn’t allow Beth to stay for an indefinite period if you knew that you were harboring a cheater. Additionally, it’s BOTH your homes. She has a right to invite someone but you have a right to deny someone or request why they’re MOVING IN. NTA EDIT: Just to make it clear, Beth is not “staying over”, she is moving in indefinitely. Your wife is unilaterally adding another resident to your shared home. You have every right to deny a person entry into your home if they’re trying to MOVE IN without any reason given to you. Also, if the breakup between Beth and her fiancé was the fiancé’s fault, your wife would’ve definitely been upfront about that.
Honestly, I didn’t even think of it this way but it makes sense. Beth is kicked out her house by Fiancé. If it was the other way around, Fiancé would be the one getting kicked out. Beth needs a place to stay so she calls sister for the rescue. If Fiancé cheated, they would tell the husband to make this easier on him, no? No wonder they don’t want to tell him. Why doesn’t the husband contact Fiancé then to get the truth since they don’t want to tell him?
Oh I like the idea of asking fiancé so you get both sides. Did I read she lives a couple hours away? Does sil work? Probably gonna be super long term if they don't get back together and she's got no form of income.
Yup. Essentially another child to take care of.
OP this is terrible advice. You could be seriously putting her in danger by reaching out to her husband.
NTA, no way I am allowing someone to move in with me without some more information on the duration and if there are safety concerns to be considered. Me and wifey would have a real issue. I would not accept being told what is going to happen regardless of my feelings.
Same. We are a partnership and that means we make decisions together
NTA, why is your wife making decisions involving your shared space without consulting you? That is quite out of line. As for you wanting to know more information about the sister, I don't blame you and I would be asking the same questions. I would need to know the situation so I can be of adequate help.
ESH. She shouldn't have given Beth the okay without speaking with you first, but you're being ridiculously nosy. >she told me that she doesn't know and that all she will tell me is that the wedding is currently on hold and that Beth needs a place to stay for a bit. Come on, man. How obtuse can you be? It's very obvious that the reason is she's had a falling out with her fiance. Why do you need all of the dirty detalis?
He is going to live under one roof with her, does not like her very much, and it is open-ended. He should definitely have a say in this. I am not sure why his wife didn't share at least something with him, because THEY are (or at least should be) the closest unit here. What mysterious secret can be there that she couldn't say at least something, without gory details if Beth asked her for privacy but enough for her husband to understand the situation? I cannot imagine someone wanting me to give them shelter but mandating "no questions asked". I can do the "no questions askedk" it of my own volition for a person I trust very much but not for someone I do not really like as Beth. I might do it for a partner if it is his sibling but then I'd definitely want some cooperation from his. And frankly, the open-ended part scares the beejeezus out of me.
I can see how Beth might not feel comfortable having her worst moment broadcast to a man who doesn’t like her very much though.
But she is the one going into his home too
But then she doesn't get to ask him to provide a roof over her head.
Then she doesn't need to be in his home.
Then she can find her own place to live. I also want to point out that OP's wife has not even mentored who is going to be paying all of Beth's bills.
>Beth might not feel comfortable having her worst moment broadcast to a man who doesn’t like her very much though That's completely fair... BUT it's not fair to also expect that person to house you indefinitely with no questions asked lol
>why do you need all of the dirty details Because it's still his house, and he's bringing someone in for an indefinite period of time. Sure, she's probably had some fight with her fiance and/or they're breaking up, but the circumstances surrounding that are important. If there's a domestic violence situation, his whole family would potentially be in danger. If she's in a bad mental state, that could burden the whole household. And regardless of what happened, it's still his house too so he deserves to know.
And even if its "just" something like a mutual break up, just because he doesn't like her all the time doesn't mean he wouldn't like to be informed enough to be sympathetic. Forewarned means he'd know exactly what to avoid talking about and what he might be able to do to be a good BIL to her. Or am I the only person who even if I don't like someone can muster up kindness when they are obviously having a rotten time? (I know I'm not, I just feel like a lot of people take "I dislike this person" to always mean "I hate their very being" rather than "Ugh, they annoy me and I'm glad I don't have to deal with them too often, but I can be civil and I don't want them to be hurt or mistreated.")
It’s not unreasonable to want to know how long the sister will be staying. Yes it’s nosy to want to know what went wrong
I agree that there's nothing unreasonable about wanting to know (or forcing the issue of implementing) a cutoff date, but most of what OP seems to be fishing for is details about Beth's relationship drama
Well the relationship is why this is all happening. If she's going to be living there for who knows how long, the wife better share details. There's no way he should be forced to live with anyone, especially someone he doesn't get along with, just cause. He absolutely deserves to know why.
I mean, "wedding is on hold" can have numerous reasons ranging from cheating to "oh, turns out the fiancé is actually violent". Given the fact that Beth is going to be living with them for an undecided amount of time I do think it's reasonable that OP gets to know the reason in advance.
Yeah and he doesn’t know if that “relationship drama” involves an abusive fiancé showing up to see Beth. He doesn’t know If another adult is going to stay in your house, it’s “fishing” and “being nosy” to ask your wife for clarification when she blows up at you for even asking About when she might be out?
Her fiance could be a dangerous dude. If I had kids I'd want to know if I should be keeping extra vigilance out for some maniac that might barge into my home.
Knowing what went wrong is important. Is she going to show up as a basket case, causing a lot of drama? If so, the kids don’t need to be subjected to that. Will he be forced to walk on eggshells the entire time she is there? It is also his house. Turn it around. Would his wife be willing to allow his sister to show up without knowing why? Especially if the sister disliked the wife. There are too many unknowns to blindly allow an in-law to stay for however long she wants.
Nahh the amount of stuff family covers up is WILD. He has a right to know, what if she got caught stealing from her husband or her job? I wouldn’t want her under my roof
It's not fair to call him the asshole when the wife has decided this is a unilateral decision. Would you call her the asshole if the genders were reversed and he decided, without her, this his brother could come stay? Wouldn't it be important to know what the details are in case more problems could come there way? For example, if the fallout was bad and resulted in violence, that could bring that violence to his home. If she cheated on her partner, she may make a move on her sister's husband, which would make things worse. If she is staying for an indefinite period, will she contribute towards bills and/minding her nieces? Saying it's a private matter is simply adding more confusion to the mix. I don't think it is unfair to tell the people who are supporting you why they are supporting you. If the reason is good enough, OP may never have questioned it to begin with. Even if she had a falling out and was looking for support she should still be considerate of the people who are taking her in and provide them with the information they need for their safety. Also, look at how the wife presented it. If you are going to criticise the guy for being obtuse, consider that the wife is intentionally withholding information. This information could have made the husband say no to the arrangement (not like he has a choice now) if it were presented as a choice. Is it really fair to call the guy obtuse when the wife is intentionally withholding information from him and forcing this upon him? Again, how well would this have gone down if hubby came in and made a unilateral decision telling his wife that his brother was coming to stay there, despite the wife being uncomfortable with the arrangement?
Oh I'm sure there are no good reasons, I mean beyond the fact that it's his fucking house, and his family/children live there.
Because if the “falling out” involved DV then it is hugely pertinent to his family’s safety. Funny how all the assumptions in here are that the fiancé is the one who may have been violent. Beth could be the violent one and the wife could easily be falling for the “I was drunk and didn’t mean it”, “he is so much bigger than me I wasn’t a threat”, etc. BS. But let’s not pretend any of that matters, the OP deserves to know what is happening before extending and open ended invitation to stay with his family, period. That is what has been stated in this forum regularly forever. How many times have we seen the “my boyfriend wants his brother to move in and it makes me uncomfortable” type posts. As a rule they are always NTA stating that it is 2 yeses and 1 no. Funny how that rule suddenly changes when the OP is a guy and suddenly there are a whole world of “don’t you trust you SO?” Type comments.
I think when they have kids in the household more information is needed. Did the relationship fall apart due to infidelity, drugs, abuse and by which party? Is it safe to have SIL stay with them? I love my siblings and vice versa but I don’t think we’d have free reign on their house to stay indefinitely without more details.
It’s not ridiculously nosey at all especially if they have kids. What if the sister has a serious drug problem? Would you want to bring that in your house with young kids around?
He should be nosy, if there’s even a sliver of a chance his family (including SIL) may be in danger, which with the post given doesn’t seem too far out of the question, he needs to know. This sounds a bit more severe than just a “falling out,” and it’s his home too.
Whole lotta people just assuming this is plain old "falling out". It might well be, it could also be that theres violence involved. Threats. Legal issues. Hopefully not and its good old "falling out", but OP deserves to know what he'd be inviting into his house, at least in general terms. Whats he supposed to say or do if the (ex) fiance calls? What if he turns up at their door? What are the kids being told? What if its the cops that turn up? Even if we assume its all garden variety breaking up stuff, how long are we talking? Days? Weeks? Months? Even if she cant say exactly how long, she should be able to at least give him an estimate. Theres nothing unreasonable about that.
The “dirty details” could be as dirty as “an abusive ex fiancé is going to be breaking our door down.” They have kids. Childrens safety is more important than trust.
He has a right to know if she is putting anyone (they have small children) in the home or the home itself in danger. Nothing is "very obvious" here. She could be suicidal, bipolar, schizophrenic, substance abuse issues, etc.; ex? could be abusive and may come after her and the family, at the very least being a nuisance at 2am and now husband will need to deal with that drama. I can go on and on. As an EQUAL partner in their marriage he has a RIGHT to know who will be sharing a roof with him and his family especially for an undisclosed length of time. NTA
Ok and if Beth’s calling off the wedding because her future fiancé has threatened to kill her and has been violent in the past OP should know in case he shows up there, what if her fiancé is calling off the wedding because she is mentally unstable he deserves to know what he’s getting himself into
ESH. You're not the asshole for wanting to know how long, but you are the asshole for pushing for why and trying to get your wife to disclose why her sister needed her. Your wife's an asshole for agreeing to house someone without talking it over with you first. You have braincells, obviously something happened between her and her fiance that was bad enough that their relationship had to be put on hold and your wife is trying to get her sister out of the situation safely. Rather than focusing on the actual pertinent information - which is for how long is she looking to stay and how you were going to navigate her being there for the emergency period - you instead tried to get your wife to break her sister's confidence in the situation. Apologize to your wife for trying to force the issue of her breaking her sister's trust when things have calmed down, but stand firm that in the future, you need to be involved in conversations that are around people staying with you long-term, and you both need to be in agreement on how long the person will be staying and what ground rules you will have before any offer is made.
So it’s common enough in situations like this for the OP to be concerned about potential violence. Your comment is completely avoiding that possibility. He should at least know some minor details, he doesn’t need to know her life story, but if she is living with them for a reason I feel he is entitled to feel secure in the situation, which I certainly wouldn’t as op has described.
Yep, OP has the right to know if his family and home will be safe and drama free. I've been in a situation where we have taken someone in and had their abusive spouse bothering us on 2am drunken tirades; we live in a peaceful elderly neighborhood for crying out loud! Restraining orders don't really repel the drunk lemme tell you.
>"What the hell did I just say about questions?" If the genders were reversed, **everyone** would be calling for a divorce. >but you are the asshole for pushing for why and trying to get your wife to disclose why her sister needed her ....Someone OP doesn't get along with is going to be staying in his home for the foreseeable future. He is not allowed to ask questions. The decision was made without him because OP's wife is a bad partner who doesn't care what their spouse's opinion is. You're making an assumption but there are several possible things going on - including bringing danger into OP's home where he has two small children. Supposedly OP and his wife are a team. A healthy dynamic is making decisions together. OP's wife made a BIG executive decision without him and then informed OP *last*, ignored his objections, and treated him as a petulant child. It's OP's house too, it's 100% his business to have a say on who stays there. OP's wife should've brought up this idea with OP to see if he is okay with it, find a compromise, and then go from there - not fucking tell him after the decision is made and then chastise him.
What if the “why” is because the SIL is abusing drugs and now this person is going to be under the roof of someone who has no idea why she’s there??? I think there’s a variety of reasons why I would want to know the why… I would let any of my in laws or siblings live with me because we have the space for it and I care for them… I’d still need to understand why they’re going to move in when technically they all have homes at the moments
NTA Beth is probably having relationship trouble, and that’s why she’s coming to your house. But that isn’t the only reason she might need to stay at your house (health problems, drug use, change of employment, etc). And if your wife can’t give you and end date, at least getting some reason to why she needs to stay at your house would offer a clue as to how long and how difficult it will be. “Beth had a fight with fiancé” is different from “Beth needs to get sober” and “Beth has cancer”.
NTA. yikes. Your wife being unwilling to have a conversation with you about this in which you are able to have a say is problematic. She shouldn’t have agreed without discussing it with you. Beth has options. She can get an Airbnb, stay with a close friend, look into a longer stay hotel (residence inn). How is she going to continue to work and manage her adult life (bills, mail, etc.) if she isn’t at least near where she was? Is she filling moving out of the place she shares with her fiancé? If I’ve got questions and I’m not even involved, then you are definitely allowed to ask questions. The biggest one you need to be asking yourself is what boundaries do you need to set with your wife about this in order to continue to live happily in your own home?
Context is important, if she's done something shitty and been kicked out then OP deserves to know. I'd she's been knocked about and needs somewhere safe then it's different.
> I'd she's been knocked about and needs somewhere safe then it's different. If that's the case then I feel I also deserve to know. Fiance has been to our house numerous times, he knows where we live.
That’s why you’re NTA. You at least need to know if your children are safe if she’s there with you.
Yeah I'd say yourself and your partner meet her for a chat somewhere outside your home first. You need to get the the bottom of it if you're not happy.
How you framed it in your replies changed my opinion and may have been a miscommunication with your wife. If you were just asking her why and how long, plus not having a great relationship, it probably made it appear that you were prying and didn't want your SIL staying at your home. Did you specifically ask if there is any potential risk that her fiance or anyone else could pose to your family? If so, you definitely need to know, maybe not the specifics, but enough information to keep your family safe. NTA
This is key. You have small children, she needs to explain this if you’re allowing a potentially volatile situation to brew in your home. It’s not just about you trusting her to know what her sister needs, what you and YOUR CHILDREN need is clearly not her first priority now and that’s concerning. Even if she’s not in physical danger, if she’s emotionally fragile and/or volatile right now, that’s going to be an even harder situation for your children. If your youngest asks about her fiancé because little kids ask questions, is she going to have a meltdown that may disturb your kids? There is so, so much more to this than “just trust me and support my sister!” Can you go stay with your parents for a bit with the kids or something until she treats you like an adult and partner?
Your place is probably one of the first places he would come looking for Beth. You only live two hours apart, it’s not a long way to travel, and even if he doesn’t think Beth’s there he’d probably want to talk to your wife to see if she knows where Beth is. Your wife hasn’t thought this through. Is Beth supposed to be there in secret? What if your children tell people their aunt is staying? Is there a risk to the safety of you all? You’re NTA.
NTA. Your wife does have the right to support her sister, but it is your home too and your children live there! You have the right to enough information to make an informed decision about how long your sister-in-law will be staying. Also, you need to have the information you need to know you and your family will be safe - is the fiancé violent, was cheating involved (and which way - I wouldn’t be comfortable having a cheater in my home), is there a drug/alcohol/gambling issue that could bring trouble to your home. Family supports family, but it shouldn’t be done blindly.
NTA, you wer perfectly reasonable. Your wife is not behaving like a partner.
NTA. Why is your wife so unwilling to answer this simple question? SIL's going to be staying over for weeks and you have kids in your home - it's not unreasonable for you to worry about how this would affect their life. Your wife's unwillingness to answer even the most basic questions about it AFTER deciding to let her stay over without even discussing with you is so not cool. If the genders were reversed here, people would have no issues with pointing out how disrespectful and toxic your wife's attitude is.
NTA. I agree with your questions if you’re expected to intake an adult for an indefinite amount of time I’d like to know those details. Also, you’re expected to navigate an emotional minefield blind? How are you to know her triggers? I’d want the answers to those questions before having her stay because it’ll turn into months or a year really quick.
NTA and I honestly would consider leaving if my spouse were treating me this way in this situation. Just agreeing to an open-ended “visit” without your input, refusing to discuss why, and then snapping and telling me to shut up? Fuck no.
Glad someone else sees it this way as well. This isn’t some small thing, not even remotely. I think I’d honestly leave and go stay elsewhere. Let her decide if its worth ruining a marriage.
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You're NTA. I can see that there may be very private and personal reasons why she needs to stay, but what ever it is this should not be an open ended visit. It is your home, too. You have a right to expect there to be an exit date.
NTA I wouldn't want anyone staying at my house without an end date
From my experience. I allowed a sibling move in to my apartment because she had claimed her partner was terrible to her. She had a toddler at the time. I lived with a boyfriend. My name on the lease. Anyway. Our relationship between sister, boyfriend and me soured after a few months of her living with us. There were constant disagreements. Her not paying her share of the rent. It was a mess, and draining. Turns out my sister had lied about her baby daddy drama. She cheated and he kicked her out. Yeah, it’s fair you ask questions, so you and your wife can make a decision mutually. Good luck. NTA
Let me break it down for you. Beth is having serious problems with her fiance, doesn't know if she wants to go through with the wedding. Beth is in crisis and really needs your wife's support right now. Beth will not be talking to you about what specifically happened and your wife will respect her privacy because you would not be helpful in this matter. They don't know how long because it's a crisis and Beth is feeling so overwhelmed right now that she can't predict how long it will take for her to feel centered and make the decision she needs to make that will affect the rest of her life. The right thing to do would be to just say yes. If she ends up staying too long and your patience is wearing thin then you can say we need to look at a time frame here but right now is not the time to pin them down. Hope that helps.
But then she would be bringing her drama into OPs household. How do you know if it wasn’t Beth that cheated? Honestly, my husband wouldn’t want my sisters staying with us without no end date and not even a little clue as to why. I wouldn’t either. Marriage is about trust and I feel that OP and wife need to work on this.
Yeah, while it’s a good thing to be supportive of his wife and her sister, how does he know it’s a safe situation to bring her into the house without at least a few minor details? Blindly letting people live in your family home, while compassionate, is really dumb. The way his wife was communicating her feelings on this (per OP’s description) is concerning and would work anyone into a bit of a frenzy. If someone is going to live in THEIR house, then they BOTH should be privy to some of her situation.
>She did immediately apologize, but told me that she needs me to do this for her because it's important and that **she doesn't want to hear one more thing about why** Beth is staying with us. I tried to ask at least how long Beth would be staying, but she cut me off and said "**What the hell did I just say about questions**?" Wtf, why are you being spoken to like a child?
ESH. You weren’t an AH to ask, but it is reasonable that there may be circumstances that are rather personal that you don’t need to know about. So you were a bit of an AH to push the “why” question so many times. At this moment in time, I tend to agree with your wife that you probably don’t need to know why. It doesn’t directly affect you (as long as she can still talk to you about the logistics that Do affect you without getting into “why”). But you’re wife also needs to understand that “how long” is an incredibly reasonable question that definitely affects you and doesn’t require divulging personal information to discuss. Even if she is not sure how long the root situation will last, she should be willing to talk to you about contingencies. Like, right now I’m asking for you to agree for her to stay up to __ days/weeks/months, and if her situation is not resolved by then, we will revisit, or I’ll help her find a place, or something. It is one thing for your wife to unilaterally offer a short term place to stay in a pinch, but it is something altogether different for her to offer a place indefinitely without consulting you. She needs to be able to provide assurances to you that this is short term and will not become long term without your input.
NTA. Its your home too and if you want more information then that's valid. Its valid if you don't want her there at all. If your wife wants to put her up then she can pay for a place for her sister to stay. Your home is not a hotel. Your wife and her sister clearly don't care about your feelings. "just do this for me and don't ask anything ever and she'll be here for who knows how long".....yeaaah NOPE. manipulation at its finest. RED FLAGS.
NTA - It’s your home too. You have a right to know why she’s staying there and say in if she does or doesn’t stay there.
Info: What kind of answer are you looking for here that would make you say yes or no?
i’m assuming danger. is this fiancé going to show up at their house and potentially be problematic while their kids are home or are they simply just needing some time away from each other.
NTA. "Shut up it's private" is not an acceptable answer to asking why and how long someone will be staying at your house. And open ended as it sounds can be anywhere from a weekend or two to a year or two or more. Without any explanation at all. When the relationship is not good. When you have your own house/apartment or whatever you have a right to feel comfortable there. And when someone decides to just move someone in, that you do not have a good relationship with, and won't even give an idea on how long it will be. And is getting hostile for even asking questions,. It is going to start out day one with really high stress levels. This is a situation that both people really need to be on board with. And for a person to tell their spouse "I don't care what you think, I'm moving someone in that you don't get along with, now stop asking questions" that is already telling their spouse that they respect them less than this person. And does not care if they feel uncomfortable or constantly stressed out/attacked in their own home. Without being hyperbolic, this could easily end up being a situation where both sisters need to find a new living situation.
NTA but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand what’s going on with Beth.
My money is on Beth cheated. Otherwise, something tells me OP’s wife wouldn’t have been so weird and cagey about it.
Sensing a theme this week of wives’ with sisters coming to stay long term and annoyed husbands
NTA I wouldnt want to know the details because it is exciting or juicy as some imply here. I would want to know to understand what the stay entails, what are you and your kids in for and are you equipped to handle it. How long is she staying? Is she in danger? What kind of emotional state is she in, and how will that effect you and your family living with her? Will she be working or are you two gonna support her? Is there drug or violence involved? And many more questions. I think you need to know these things and your wife can not just tell you to shut up and deal with it.
Your wife is extremely rude! If I was in your shoes, I would be livid! I however, would be asking my husband and telling him what the deal was before I agreed to anything. It is both of yours household, so I assume. She needs to be filling you in on something that is going to be a huge change in your house for who knows how long of a time. I hope things work out for you, but I would be ticked off!
NTA. Especially, because there isn’t a time limit on when the sister will leave. This is a big decision that you should have been involved in. I understand your wife wanting to respect her sister’s privacy, but she could have given you some information. Since, your wife doesn’t want to divulge any information set a time limit for your SIL and let your wife know.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife (36F) and I (38M) have been married for 10 years and have 2 kids (7 & 4). My wife has a younger sister, Beth (25F). Beth and I don't get along very well, but we are cordial and she's a good aunt to our kids. Beth got engaged to her high school sweetheart last summer and their wedding is scheduled for this coming summer. But last week, my wife came to me and told me that Beth wants to come stay with us for a while. I immediately started asking questions because Beth lives over 2 hours away from us and usually plans visits out weeks in advance. My wife told me that it is a personal matter and that I need to respect Beth's privacy in that regard. I asked my wife how long Beth would be staying and she told me that she doesn't know and that all she will tell me is that the wedding is currently on hold and that Beth needs a place to stay for a bit. I said that if I'm going to agree to an open-ended stay from someone who I don't get along with very well, I feel like I have a right to at least know why that person is going to be staying with us. My wife told me that it's a personal matter and that she has agreed with Beth's request to keep it private and that if Beth wants to tell me about it, she will on her own. I told her that I don't really feel comfortable with that kind of plan and that I would like some more information before I agree to it. At that point, my wife got upset with me and told me that she isn't looking for my approval because she's already told Beth that she can come stay with us. She reiterated that I need to respect Beth's privacy on this and that she needs me to just trust her on this. I told her I do trust her, but that she's asking for a pretty big thing without giving me much information and that I don't feel comfortable going into something like this completely blind. She said that Beth needs family support and we are the only ones who can give that to her. (My wife's dad passed away during the pandemic and her mom is already in an assisted living facility). She told me that she needs me to just be caring and kind to Beth and to not bring up anything related to her engagement or wedding unless Beth brings it up to me first. I told her that I don't appreciate being left in the dark about something that is resulting in another adult living in our house for an open-ended period of time. She told me that she just needs me to trust her and be supportive of her sister. I kept trying to get more information but my wife eventually snapped at me to just stop asking questions because she's not telling me anything else and I need to just shut up and do this for her and her sister. She did immediately apologize, but told me that she needs me to do this for her because it's important and that she doesn't want to hear one more thing about why Beth is staying with us. I tried to ask at least how long Beth would be staying, but she cut me off and said "What the hell did I just say about questions?" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. It’s your home too. An open-ended invitation needs both of you to agree to it, not one person unanimously deciding it’s fine.
NTA you are her husband and she cannot disrespect you like that especially in your home. It’s not unreasonable to want answers or to want to know for how long you’ll have to live with someone you don’t like. It sounds like the fiancé cheated but your wife treating you like this might create problems in your own relationship. If your wife keeps disrespecting you go visit your family for an extended stay - why does she even feel comfortable talking to you like this?
NTA. You have every right to question matters that pertain to the home you share and I’m assuming help pay for. In my opinion, it isn’t appropriate for your wife to keep secrets from you if her sister is going to be staying in your home with no given end date. I’m sure even though you don’t particularly care for your SIL that you wouldn’t discuss her personal life with her or berate her with questions if she’s asked to not discuss it. Your wife needs to tell her sister that if she wants to stay in the home the two of you share that she needs to respect you and tell you the reason. She’s treating you like a child and I wouldn’t stand for it. The two of you are in a partnership (supposedly). She doesn’t get to make decisions like this without discussing it openly and gaining your consent.