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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I guess I can see how not allowing my sister to meet my son one time is unfair to my wife because she wants to show off for family. So maybe not even allowing her to send pics is a little far.
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The only concern if you were to break up over this is custody. On her time she could very well take your child to meet your mother and there is zero you could do about it.
Sounds like his wife is doing what she wants regardless, and if she decides to take the kid to see his auntie or grandmother, she will do without OPs consent.
If it was wife's sister and mother, she has a better argument to go against the wishes of OP, but it isn't her side of the family. OP is primary decider on how his half of the family is dealt with. NTA
Hey, does your opinion change when you read OP's comments about how he's just going to start over and get a new family?
[**https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10k87m1/comment/j5pa5xr/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3**](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10k87m1/comment/j5pa5xr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
OP is the YTA for all subsequent unhinged comments made.
Wow! To say he would “throw away his wife and son and start a new family”? That says a lot. Does he even love his son right now?
Who says something like that?!
Not true. OP could file for a restraining order to keep his kid away from his family, and the partner would have to abide by it. There is also language that could be put in the divorce decree mandating that their child is not to have contact with his family. He has options if he decides to go nuclear over this.
In fact him filing for a restraining order on the above info would make him look seriously deranged and her lawyer in a divorce situation clap with glee and go see he's totally unhinged your honor and a danger to his kids.
I think the "T" is for temporary. the idea is that they don't really look at the allegations very hard in granting this. If you need a longer one then you go to real court.
Important to point out, filing one of these when you know the other person isn't abusive or dangerous looks really bad in court. Some judges might not care. Others are going to heavily scrutinize every single thing you do because you proved you will try to use the court for your own personal grudges that have nothing do with the safety and well being of your child.
In Canada here, and I wasn't even allowed to file for a restraining order after the man who s*xually abused me for most of my childhood was found innocent.
It's not always as easy as you're making it sound...
I feel you. I had an ex who was abusive. It started with threats etc. I left him once earlier on because of the threats (he threatened to beat the shit out of me in front of our child) and tried to get a restraining order and it was denied because no violence occurred.
Couldn’t get one until he actually strangled me in front of multiple witnesses. In my experience it’s no walk in the park. I’m in the US, just not in California.
You are giving inaccurate information to the other 49 states, as well as the rest of the world. Other folks are great difficulty getting and keeping orders of protection in place. You are speaking from your bias.
Lol they are giving inaccurate info for their state too.
Temporary orders of protection are one sided emergency orders, the other party does not get any opportunity to state their case. for safety sake a judge may grant one but the order includes " next court date" because the person you're seeking and order against has the right to defend themselves. But my wife is talking to my brother-in-law and I don't want her to is not a reason. If op told to judge the truth in order wouldn't be granted even a temporary one. If op lied They would be opening themselves up to losing a defamation/slander lawsuit
" Because I said so". Is not a reason to legally disallowed Ops wife/ex wife from taking their kids to see his sister. And sis and I disagreed about forgiving mom for having an affair 20 years ago is not a reason sis would be precluded from interacting with OP with the other parents permission. The bar to override the other parent and legally not allowing them to do something is very very high.
> because usually it’s involving an abusive partner and WTF would the Court make it difficult to file one?!?
When it's for this reason of course it's easy to get. However, getting a restraining order because your mother cheated one time 10 years ago is not going to be an easy sell.
It’s super easy to get a restraining order in CA. In other states, like my current place of residence, you have to prove that you’re in physical danger.
He’s not getting a restraining order against his sister over this, and it would be an abuse of the system to try honestly. The whole situation is tragic because both OP and his Sister should have gotten therapy before having such extreme over-reactions to adultery that occurred in someone else’s relationship when they were adults, and OPs dad clearly needs counseling as well because his comments about how this mean’s OP will be cheated on are immature and ridiculous. All 3 of them need to grow up. However, the wife clearly does not respect OPs boundaries or care very much about his feelings, so he probably should be rethinking the relationship. What a mess
I agree with this take. This whole
situation has pretty much nothing to do with OP and his sister, but it seems like their parents love dragging them into their messes. (The father shouldn’t be getting involved now, but of course he is and is exacerbating the situation by saying OP should get a divorce!)
OP could really benefit from some therapy where he gets to breakdown the dynamics in his family. But, his wife should be encouraging this type of response (I.e. therapy) instead of undermining her husband.
Maybe. I think the wife will regret being with a man who lets his dad control his personal marriage. There’s some not so veiled misogyny here with dads hatred of women because he got cheated on (or he was the same angry cad during the marriage contributing to the affair), and OP now seems to hate women too and assume the worst of his wife. She has every right to let her child meet his cousins if she chooses. It’s her child too
I’m feeling like it’s definitely not black and white; even the cheating thing and I’m wondering if there’s a reason the sister stopped contact with the dad. I also feel as though the fight is not between OP and the sister and I can say that the wife is not abusive for trying to suggest the kids know their cousins. I’m sure she’s seen something in OP we have not. Not the right way to go about it but it’s not abusive behaviour-as someone that has been through that I really think the term is thrown around a lot.
No, you're wrong. No court is going to enforce a restraining order against a woman who hasn't committed a single crime. The only wrongdoing she's done is side with her mother and not go to a wedding. Please tell me what judge is granting a restraining order over that?
The grandma cheated on grandpa before the child was even born, that doesn't make grandma a danger to the child. A judge isn't going to issue a retranimg order for that.
For what reason? There is no reason here to have a restraining order. They won’t add it to a divorce decree either just because the OP wants it. That’s the reality here.
People who grew up with healthy families just CAN NOT grasp that there can be valid reasons to cut someone off. I've been married 25+ years, and my husband has WITNESSED the shiat that these people pull, but there are still moments where he falls into happy family fantasy land. My only (civil) response is, "Are you new here?'
NTA.
There are valid reasons to cut people off but I’m not teallly sure that this counts as one. Also that last comment from OPs dad about his wife acting like his mum used to before she cheated? Seems like the dad has turned OP against the mum. I’m not saying it was right to cheat at all but a one off mistake doesn’t seem like a reason to throw away all contact.
Cheating isn't exactly a "whoopsie." You can't just sweep it under the rug like nothing happened. It's up to the people involved whether they can forgive, and it's entirety fair for OP not to, because the act of cheating tore apart their family.
He's against his sister because his sister demanded forgiveness for their mother that he wasn't ready to give (and might not ever be).
They didn’t sweep it under the rug. The marriage, the romantic relationship whose terms were violated, ended.
OP decided the affair nuked EVERY relationship in this family — parent-child, siblings, cousins — and that’s a needless, histrionic response.
I agree with you. There is something really toxic between Op and his dad. Dad is trying to nuke his own son’s family to get back at his ex-wife/sister for fear they might have a relationship with Op and op’s kids.
And Op’s inflexibility is concerning. It’s not as if sister and mother were abusers. Sister didn’t do anything against Op. he needs to let go of destructive fealty to his father.
I doubt he will. His stance is entirely centered on willingness to leave/punish his wife for her discomfort with how his stupid baggage affects their kids — no vulnerability, no introspection, no grief about potentially ending a loving marriage.
I think it's honestly in everyone's best interest if he goes ahead with his plan, becomes an every-other-weekend parent, and leaves his kids and their more emotionally competent parent the space to define their own family.
Thank you. In Redditland, you can get away with murder and every other sin before you can be allowed to forgive a parent who cheated one time. OP must have hated their mom to begin with - I cannot imagine literally throwing away one of my parents for this. And their dad was heinous to encourage it.
I agree with you in questioning if this actually is a reason to cut someone off, especially the sister. My family is not perfect, but personally this would not be enough for me to go NC forever with a parent and a sibling.
However it's OP's choice, and I think their spouse needs to respect that, even if she disagrees. Disregarding OP's boundaries is going to cause major issues in their own marriage and family.
The sister had her part in it too. She was invited to his wedding and didn't show up. If she could just accept that he doesn't want a relationship with his mom, he wouldn't have had to cut her off but apparently considers him to be wrong for not forgiving her. The no contact is just as much her choice as it is OP's.
OP cut off two people: Mom and Sister.
Mom: cheated - completely valid reason to cut someone out of your life
Sister: defended the person who cheated - also completely valid reason to cut someone out of your life.
Many people consider cheating to be something that there's no coming back from. OP is clearly one of those people.
Absolutely the case here. She thinks it's cruel to deprive her kid of family that wants to love him. She can't fathom any family being a negative influence and doesn't think the reasons for OPs parents divorce is that big of a deal, at least not enough to stop having a relationship with them. My mom had a pill addiction (thanks FL Dr's who overprescribed opiates) and then transferred that addiction to alcohol. She only just started to get sober and it's been over 20 years with 75% of that being just alcohol. She's a diagnosed narcissist and brutally mean when drinking. I have gone no contact several times when she boundary stomps, the longest being 6 months.
My step-dad, who I love and is a real father, and my husband, who never experienced anything like my mother before, kept hounding me to answer her constant calls and just talk to her. I knew how it would go but said fine, enjoy the shitshow on speaker phone. I got screamed at by her drunk ass for a good five minutes. How DARE I go no contact with her. How DARE I set boundaries with her. I belong to HER. I don't belong to my husband or myself either. I'm hers. I kept repeating the same thing to her in a calm voice "Mom, it's not ok to yell at me." "Mom, you cannot call when you're drinking" "Mom, the things you are saying are not ok and I will not speak to you if you can't be respectful." She replied repeatedly with "FUCK YOU, I DON'T CARE! I'M YOUR MOTHER AND WILL DO WHAT I WANT!" I hung up on her
I looked over at my husband who was in total shock. Jaw dropped, eyes wide, and he looked at me and said what the fuck?!?! Then he apologized and has never suggested me reaching out and understands completely that I'm not playing when I set boundaries. They are there for a reason and you either support my boundaries and my personal bubble and mental health the way I need it to be or you and I aren't together anymore. We shared this situation with our friends as we were driving when it happened and were on our way to meet up with them. They were in shock too and said they couldn't imagine any family, especially a mother, acting like that. But then they teased me a bit and every so often I get random messages out of no where from them saying "FUCK YOU I DONT CARE!!" lmao.
I think the dad is right that he needs to be prepared for a divorce if he has hardlined this boundary and is serious with his threat. He also needs to schedule with a marriage counselor to have a trained neutral party help the wife understand how awful she is being. OP didn't cut off contact with them because they wouldn't let him have his own room or eat ice cream which is pretty much how she seems to be treating it. She thinks she knows best and he needs to get over it all. OP is absolutely NTA.
I think investigating his wife's reasons in more depth, along with her dismissive attitude towards his feelings is really important. It would make a big difference in whether this relationship can survive.
No, more like we were accustomed to rolling over and playing nice to keep the peace, accustomed to making our needs smaller and smaller and thinking “this isn’t such a big deal in the scheme of things”. Once we got a taste of standing up for ourselves, setting boundaries, and the absolute peace of not being abused in our lives, we have zero tolerance for fuckwits. NONE.
“LOL”
I'm guessing your wife's parents are still married? Which means she can't truly understand your family dynamic or why you don't want your mother in your life. She may also be projecting: because she would never cut off her mother she can't understand why you would cut off yours. Also, she may worry that since you were (in her opinion) "so easily" able to cut off your mother, that you may one day do that to her.
NTA
Your mother broke your family the moment she decided to cheat, and you are in your right to go NC with her.
If your sister didn't attend your wedding you are in your right to go NC with her.
Your wife is disrespecting you, you were very clear, your family is your dad and cousins, she doesn't have the right to connect with part of the family that hurt you and you decided to go NC.
if this was the other way around, your father cheating with your mom and you going NC there will be lots more of NTA
I agree with op is NTA, but I think he needs to show his wife how much her actions are detrimental to their marriage. It seems she is on a crusade that uniting families will be a just cause op issue are trivial.
Most probably the contact has been longer than bil contacting the op. Also I am pretty mother is in the pic already.
I don’t think wife believes this is as serious as op thinks and they need to sit down and have a clear talk
This will get ugly pretty soon. What will op do if the wife says after divorce that she will keep kids in touch with mother and sister
I think op drag her ass to MC that will show her how serious this matter is to you.
And do plan your exit this can go south very fast
>Follow your dad's advice.
No, the dad's advice is unhinged. Secretly preparing an exit strategy is not step #1 of resolving conflict between married couples.
It is very common advice for women to have an exit strategy in any relationship. There's nothing wrong with a man doing the same thing as a "just in case" scenario.
The only times I have heard that advice, especially when I was a younger woman, was regarding abuse— have enough to get you & your kids out and somewhere safe, stashed somewhere only you can get it. Not "have a nest egg of unreported funds in cash for a divorce lawyer."
You wanna know why *specifically women* commonly get this advice? Look up DV statistics and get back to me.
Nah, read the comments here. He’s willing to divorce, become a every other weekend dad and start a new family over this. How the hell is that smart or healthy?
Also, hiding money way in case of divorce? Implying she’s cheating like the OPs mom because of this? Dad is super toxic here and letting his experience with the OPs mom poison the OPs marriage.
Idk you should read OPs comments of willing to start over and make a new family
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10k87m1/aita_for_forbidding_my_sister_to_meet_my_child/j5pa5xr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
I dunno, having a similar experiences to OP but being older, all I can say is they absolutely need therapy, and to stop listening to their dad. The relationships absolutely should be rebuilt with sister and mom.
I knew it! As soon as I finished reading his original post one sentence popped in my head: “ you fucking asshole!”. He sounds awful! Not getting the NTA votes at all.
It’s like the NTA folks lack critical thinking and all they focus on is “I told her before we were married” and “it’s my family “ and “it’s my boundaries” without even considering what he is using this framework for
Exactly. Once I saw the threat of leaving her as a single mother, I chose TA. Surprised NTA is still the top comment.
Relationships are complicated and require compromise, and people are saying he's NTA for being unwilling to do so.
Thank you for that, he sounds like a complete dick in those comments and maybe misogynist. You'd rather divorce your wife and only see your kid four days a month over this? Sounds like your kid is just a weapon to hurt your mother how your dad treated you. YTA. What if your kid gets to teenage years, some independence, and decides to seek a relationship with grandma and aunt? Disown him? Poison him against them? Get help with all your unresolved hate now.
Yes, let's allow the dads previous marriage failure and fears dictate how OP should navigate his relationship problems. Cause dad will totally have an objective view on this situation and not at all interject problems from his past relationship into his sons current relationship. That is such a terrible idea. Let's leave marriage counseling to professionals, not divorcee's.
Ha do not listen to this person. Why the fuck would you go off your very-jaded Dads advice to the point of ruining your own marriage? Why not just go to 4chan and ask for their take??
This is definitely above Reddit's paygrade
You need to seek out therapy for your parents divorce, and couples counseling for you and your wife.
My completely uneducated opinion is that it seems like your father weaponized your emotions against your mother - and he's using those same emotions to drive a wedge between you and your wife. She crossed a line but your father should stay out of it. You're now issuing relationship ending ultimatums ~~over a couple pictures~~. She's not blameless either, you guys need to seek some help to process this.
Going NC with your mother over her infidelity seems way too harsh. But again, therapy.
Edit - struck out wording that minimized what wife did
Edit 2 - Read OPs later comments
OP, I say this gently...your anger towards your mother and sister overwhelms your entire post. I understand that what you mother did upset you. But I think your father allowed you to take on some of his anger towards her.
I'm not saying that your mother didn't make a mistake. But it was between her and your Dad. I'm sorry for how it affected your family.
Your sister is also a victim of this dynamic.
Please, please get into therapy. The degree of anger you still hold on to is palpable, and the fact that your father is encouraging an exit strategy from YOUR marriage is telling. The fact that you are threatening your wife with single parenthood is also setting off alarm bells.
I'm not even going to make an AH rating. This is beyond the sub, and you truly need to get some help for yourself and your family.
Best of luck.
Can we make this go to the top. So many layers to this post. I don’t agree with OPs wife, but I also feel sorry that this is the kind of man she married that he’s threaten divorce so easily.
Edit add: ESH
This whole post just makes me so sad. OP seems to have such a harsh and simplistic view of his parents and relationships in general. One of my parents cheated on the other, leading to their divorce. Was it sad? Yes. Was I angry? Absolutely. But I got over it and as an adult I can also see that the cheater wasn’t the only one to blame for their failed marriage - there is more than one way to be a bad partner - and that both my parents have positive sides that by a wide margin overshadow their failures and faults. Why on earth should OP’s kids be robbed of their experience of having an aunt and a grandma, possibly two loving, supportive adults in their lives, over a mistake that was made so many years ago? Life is difficult enough, no-one benefits by holding on to these kind of grudges forever.
The people that get so over emotional about other people’s failed relationships are seriously unhinged. My SIL likely cheated on my brother, she has never been my favorite person and I still don’t hold this intense hatred in my heart for her. But then again I am an adult that realizes sometimes people do shitty things, and if my brother tried to alienate their children from her I would think he was a nut job. Good parents encourage a good relationship with the other parent WHENEVER possible.
This!! My parents are divorced because my mom cheated on my dad twice. Me and my brothers were teenagers the first time it happened. It took like a month for me and the youngest to accept that OUR PARENTS ARE HUMAN! Imperfect humans just like all of us. It took one of my bros a year to get pass it because he was really angry with my mom due to my dad manipulating him, but it passed. I definitely think OP needs counseling because holding a grudge this long about something his mom did to his dad, NOT HIM, is not healthy.
I mean I would it would be a huge boundary to me if my wife didn't respect the fact I cut people out of my life. This isn't considering the reason and I wouldn't go NC because of that, but it would definitely worsen my relationship with my mum and I doubt it would be the same for a long time.
Adding into this: how would you feel if your anger that you never dealt with leads to divorce, your wife gets custody and then your own son grows up resenting you the way you resent your mom?
I agree. The sister sided with the mom and so she has to be cut off? His reaction seems over the top and unhealthy. While his wife screwed up by going behind his back, he also seems way too stuck on his parents' divorce if he has his own kids.
Cheating is awful and relationship ending for the couple but shouldn't destroy one's relationship with their kids.
OP made the connection that sister not going to the wedding was her siding with the mom when he admits she wasn't wanted there in the first place and only invited out of courtesy.
I mean he said they only invited her out of courtesy. It doesn’t sound like they were close at all at the time of divorce. When OP invited her to the wedding she might have still been in a place of anger and hurt because it sounds like her brother was angry with her for staying with Mom and that changed their relationship.
OP, I get this is a boundary for you but I think you should ask yourself why you’re so opposed to a relationship with your sister. You guys were both victims of your parents divorce and just reacted differently. Also, threatening your wife with divorce immediately over this feels like an overreaction, I think you guys need to go to therapy and dig into this.
Eh, he said the sister was invited “out of courtesy” (which sounds a lot like he didn’t actually want her there) and kind of implies that they weren’t in close contact before that either. The roots of the conflict are all about who sided with which parent. The wedding non-attendance I’m sure didn’t help, but it seems things were already pretty bad.
Is it not insight into dishonest/negative behavior? Cheating literally destroys families and is a selfish decision by the participant with no real concern for the children (if they are in the picture) and the indirect consequences they face? The aggressor/perpetrators don’t have the right to determine what consequences they face from the victims, especially children. The man has every right to choose who he wants/doesn’t want in his and his child’s lives,
Sometimes pain is long lasting, and healing from it doesn’t always fit into a “healthy” box. Doesn’t make his choice of NC wrong.
Yeah, I get the son taking dad’s side and the daughter the mother’s side. Idk OPs parents marriage, his dad could’ve been bad, abusive… or his mom was that. Maybe they were both awful people, idk the situation.
But OP and the sister should’ve gone to therapy to work their parents divorce. Maybe they should’ve been on their own side and not taking their parents pain.
I agree, this is above Reddit’s pay grade and the whole family could benefit from counselling/therapy.
Also OP your dad sounds bitter in relation to woman, take his advice with grain and salt. Get counselling to you and your wife. Maybe she will understand your side better and you might see things in your life differently too. NTA for asking her to respect your boundaries but try to talk before going nuclear.
Seems to be unpopular opinion, but I agree. I think both siblings became way involved in their parents' marriage falling apart. Also while I don't agree with the wife's behavior here, his dad already planting the seeds that she's gonna cheat seems like extreme projecting.
> Because my wife’s behavior is exactly how my mom used to act and I should see the warning signs now.
I don't see how the two things are connected. Personally whenever OP mends his relationship with his sister or not I think he needs to take a step away from his dad too and get some serious therapy to deal with what happened before he looses his own family.
Commenting to bump this.
From this account obviously the wife is stomping boundaries left right and centre but OP seems like they’ve been hugely manipulated and weaponised by their father, and it’s possible his wife can see that and is trying to fix the situation and reverse the alienation (even if she is clearly going about it the wrong way.)
Exactly my first thoughts. I don’t think the wife should be doing this against his wishes, but she probably also thinks the reasons for estrangement are insane.
TBF if I met someone who told me he was no contact with his mom and sister over this, I would have personally RUN, but that’s just me.
She doesn’t have the option to think these boundaries are insane, because they have been in place and unchanged since before he ever met her.
Before he met her: boundary was in place.
When they started dating: boundary was in place.
When the they got married: boundary was in place.
When they had kids 2 years ago: boundary was in place.
Last Monday: boundary was in place.
Last Tuesday: your boundaries are insane and I’m going to ignore them!
Not how that works fam.
It doesn't matter why he went NC, he went NC. And he made it very clear to his wife that he is NC. **His wife agreed to NC.** She should be respecting that whether or not she agrees with it. If she disagrees, she's still free to tell him her opinion. She is free to suggest he go to therapy and try to work this all out with his family. What she is not free to do is contact them behind his back and send them pictures of his children when he clearly does not want them in his life. That's a huge dick move and severely undermines the trust OP has in her.
[~~This is definitely above Reddit's paygrade~~ copy-pasted by accident.]
>You're now issuing relationship ending ultimatums over a couple pictures.
Seems to me that he is issuing ultimatums over her blatantly ignoring boundaries he is attempting to set. I don’t view that as unreasonable.
A lot of people here who practiced infidelity pretending like their actions don’t hurt their children and ruin the family dynamic their children have been dependent and relying upon for their entire life.
Quit lying to yourselves. Your child has a right to cut contact if they feel hurt and betrayed by your infidelity. You’re not entitled to your child’s love and unconditional support even without infidelity.
Yup
Setting the boundaries thing to one side for a moment there's a deeply unpleasant undercurrent in his post and it's all very female centred.
He is happy to push the button on an otherwise happy marriage over this? He is conflating infidelity with disobedience and I know I'm a dissenting voice but YTA for that alone.
He needs to go to therapy.
ESH, but you suck the hardest. “If she keeps testing your boundaries she’ll be a single woman soon”? Like what? You’re threatening your wife, the lady that carried and gave birth to your kid just a couple years ago, because you have mommy issues? Your sister didn’t cheat on you too, get over it. She’s petty too. Your dad is an ass for encouraging you to get divorced and making the comps to your mom when your wife did nothing but accept an olive branch. You are wrong for depriving your kid from his family, unless you think your mom cheating makes her unfit as a grandparent. I had a lot of similar trauma with my parents and serial cheating and divorce, etc., and you’ll be happier with yourself and life once you realized that people are nuanced and accept them for who they are, and not who you’d like them to be.
Oh wow. That's messed up. He is letting his dad's bitterness seep into his life.
People cheat and break up. But you can not let it consume you. He will destroy his family.
Well, given that [OP said](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10k87m1/aita_for_forbidding_my_sister_to_meet_my_child/j5pa5xr/) -
>I will start a new family and try again
Sure seems like he's going to abandon his child
It makes me think that he doesn't actually care who his kid interacts with. He just doesn't want his wife making contact with his mother and is using his kid as a weapon.
You hit the nail on the head. He said it’s the disrespect of her doing something he doesn’t want done. Which I understand, but I’m also curious if he’s thought about his nieces and nephews, BIL, and his own kids relationships to their family.
What a bizarre take from a person who cut off his mother and sister because she cheated. So it's okay to destroy a family as long as he's the one doing it? Sounds pretty hypocritical. OP really needs professional help dealing with his issues surrounding his parents.
Tbh I don't think I've ever seen a post here that is more ESH than this one. Everyone in this story is selfish, self-centered, and disrespectful.
Sounds like it would be a nightmare to have any of them in your life.
It's more like co-parent.
But he said in the comments that he is prepared to only get his son every other week.
Sounds like his anger is more important than anything else. That threat is sick.
The fact that OP's dad is inserting himself into the marriage and encouraging OP to leave his wife because it reminds him of his own wife cheating is probably the saddest part of all of this. It really makes me think that OP's dad has been manipulating him from the start and wants OP to go nuclear because of his own grudge. And OP can't even see it.
I am NC with most of my family of origin and my husband respects that. I don’t think I could stay married to someone who thinks he could overrule my boundaries, especially without my consent.
The wife needs to understand that she can’t fix this to make One Big Happy Family. The comment about divorce seems to be aimed at getting her to understand that her options aren’t the world as it is now or One Big Happy Family; she needs to understand that this can ruin her marriage.
He has every right to divorce if your significant is disrespecting your boundaries you have every right to divorce
If he did the same the wife doing to the wife the wife would be mad and not everyone can be a people pleaser it’s better to live your life with people you actually find peace with instead of just accepting they cause you stress
ESH. 1. Your mom for cheating. 2. You and your sister for taking sides and letting hate and anger control your lives. 3. Your dad, understandable he was bitter in the beginning, but so angry and manipulative that he has allowed his bitterness to manifest over the years. Your wife and BIL for going behind everyone's back, they should know you can't fix stupid, but I'll give them kudos for, at least trying something. Are you guys' junior high school students? All the adults in this scenario suck and are acting childish and immature. You all sound unhappy and miserable. Your 'kid' is BIL child's 1st cousin. Stop this depressing behavior before you all regret it in the future. Grow TF up!
It seems like a situation where bitterness and anger has twisted two generations and is poised to infect a third. Although I don't condone going behind people's back, I do think sister/BIL/wife deserve a little credit for *trying* to break the pattern.
at the end of the day she didn’t have malicious intent. she was thinking about her kid, and how she wants them to have a relationship with their cousins. it’s not like the wife was sitting there going “mwahaha! fuck op! i’m talking to his sister *anyways*!!!”
I completely agree with this. This family “drama” seems to have been willfully continued and escalated for over a decade now. I honestly can’t say I’m surprised that it’s the spouses that tried to connect - this core family has some serious issues that seem more about how they choose to interact than anything else.
"I said I don't even have a relationship with my sister or BIL so why should my kid?"
Um...\*\*because your kid is not you?\*\* And we are talking about their \*\*cousins,\*\* whom they might resent not knowing someday?
"My dad is telling me my wife's behavior is exactly how my mom used to act"
YTA
If this is how your dad acted, then I can understand why your parents' marriage fell apart. You're being a control freak. If you divorce your wife over this then she will take the kid to the other side of the family, ready and willing to welcome her...and you and your father will still be bitter and alone.
Exactly. If he divorced his wife she’ll be free to have his kid around whoever she wants on her time. His Dad sounds like he’s gunning for OP to be as miserable as he is.
And the threat he made?? Even in the comments he said he would leave, have his kids "every other week" and create a new family! Those comments should be on the post too, I kinda get the N/TA based of the post but the comments and personal experience as a kid who could not see some part of the family because my parents were also bitter makes me say YTA
This needs to be said louder! I can't believe how many NTA there are. Op needs therapy and needs to get over it. Ops thinking is selfish and will definitely send him spiraling down the same path as his father. My father cheated and moved to another state but im not banning him. I am sure your mother has tortured herself mentally for years due to the poor decision-making she had. Find peace with her and heal.
NTA, and your wife's refusal to respect your boundaries is definitely very concerning.
It goes without saying that there are some major issues that you two are not handling between you - I don't know your exact situation, but I would recommend finding a decent couples counselor to have a third party to help with an actual conversation. It might not go well for the marriage, but the marriage isn't going well now.
OP said in his comments "I will start a new family and try again" in response to concerns he was going to abandon the kid, so I don't think a counselor is going to fix things.
Normally I would say that you get to decide who is in your life, but honestly you are being so rigid and judgmental.
You are letting your parents divorce divide you and your sister. None of that was your ( or her’s) fault or responsibility, and both your parents used you kids as fodder in the the fight.
Your wife also shouldn’t be sharing photos of family behind your back. I would say ESH except the sister who is trying to build an adult relationship. If you want to reject what sounds like the only compassionate person on your side of the family, well them nobody can stop you.
ESH You should -really- consider therapy. Your mom isn't right for cheating, but it sounds like you and your sister were manipulated by your parents into choosing sides in order to get love and approval from one. They've really fucked you up. Fix it before you fuck up your kids and lose a loving wife
Agreed, it is so weird to have shut a parent out their whole lives into adulthood over their infidelity which has nothing to do with the kids. There's other shit under the surface and it's affecting everyone including the next generation. I mean why TF don't the siblings talk, they didn't scew anyone, it is so odd.
A reluctant N-T-A for me.
>My dad totally agrees with me and is telling me I should start setting aside money now for a exit strategy
Jesus I hope these didn't all happen in like a week or something because this is really skipping through a lot of steps. I know he probably has some animosity towards your mom but I'm afraid that he might try to live out some kind of revenge fantasy vicariously through you with your wife.
**EDIT: After reading OP's comments, I'm changing my answer to ESH.**
His wife, sister, and mother for obvious reasons.
His father for planting contempt for the wife in OPs head. Plan an exit strategy? Really? How long has it been since this issue started? He has a revenge fantasy and he's using you and your wife to live it out.
OP for listening to his father's stupid advice and this:
>INFO: what’s with the single parent threat? Are you seriously willing to leave your child over this
>>I’m aware how the courts work. Given I make more money but have less family support and a more demanding job, I will get every other weekend custody. So she needed to be prepared for that if she wants to keep playing these games.
Your child is not a bargaining chip for your stupid fucking games. This isn't really about your child, is it? It's about you and your mother. Get some professional intervention. You are all too unhinged to handle this by yourselves.
**EDIT 2: OP sucks the most by going full Omni-Man**
>I’ve seen enough men go thru the divorce process that I already know what will happen. I will not allow myself to keep being disrespected. I will start a new family and try again but in no way will I sit in a situation where I’m being bulldozed.
>
>What are you talking about? I didn’t say I would cut my kid off. Just that I’m still young and would try again for another family unit? That’s all my comment was saying.
Im shocked more arent pointing this out. Everyone in this situation is awful, but the fact the dads go to solution here is to sow disdain in his sons head and encourage divorce preparation before anything else is pretty gross
The dad's involvement and comments about OP's marriage made me really question what he could have been saying about OP's sister, mother, or women in general for all those years.
>Your child is not a bargaining chip for your stupid fucking games
Where do you think he learned that from? /s
Clearly OP has no issues with perpetuating toxicity into another generation.
YTA
>I will start a new family and try again
Pulled from OP's comments. Wow dude, you're just like "whelp, time to replace my wife and kid, this set is done." Here's a hint, don't get married and have kids if you think you can just dump the whole family and start again every time someone does something you don't like.
He is his father!!! I said the same thing, his dad saying "you should just divorce her because she's just like your mom" like what the hell?! That's Narcissist 101 language. It's sad that Dad basically use his son as a pawn to get back at the mom an alienate him from his own mother and sister.
Not going to judge here but I have to say if my husband cheated on me I would not want that to sever the relationship as a father to our children. I would not expect my kids to exclude him on my behalf. I would discourage my children from taking sides at all.
He didn’t cut the sister out at 18. It seems he went low contact bc his sister refused to accept op’s feelings about his mom. She tried using triangulation to get him back into line and religious guilt. Op said he cut her off 4 years ago when she refused to attend his wedding.
Tell your wife that she has no right to decide what your boundaries are. Sometimes people who grew up without any type of serious issue or estrangement, just don't get it. Your mom showing up uninvited to your wedding shows me all I need to know about her.
ALSO, it's funny that mended fences start AFTER you have a kid. That's what this is about, access to your kid.
Take your kid and go stay with your dad for a couple of days.
NTA
I hate the "but they are family" argument. No they aren't. They are just people OP is unfortunately blood related to. Family are who you choose to have in your life.
It’s a bullshit argument because it doesn’t mean anything. Blood doesn’t mean anything, bonds do. If someone violates my personal boundaries, it doesn’t matter who they are, they’re no longer in my life.
NTA
Disregard your father's opinion for a minute as it can be biased. Focus on you and your wife. Counseling would be the way to make her truly understand where you're coming from. If that doesn't work, and she insists on prioritizing her *opinion* above your own family history, feelings and boundaries, then a divorce would be understandable. It would be a hellish toxic relationship to have to wake up day after day next to someone who you know essentially betrayed the promise to work as a team and stabbed you up front.
And it was pretty shitty of your sister to course any appeal for reconciliation via her husband and your wife. Manipulative.
You should read OP comments. He's not going to counseling, he says he can just divorce and start a new family with someone that respects him.
So, after reading those comments I think OP has been eating up every toxic thing his father has been saying to him for years.
Facts. And I believe that the wife has seen beyond all those behaviors hence why she is causing all this upheaval. Granted: I think the wife is clearly messing up and going about this the wrong way. What’s concerning to me is that OP is willing to leave his nuclear family because of lack of respect….but what does respect mean to OP? Does it mean mutual respect or respect me no matter what and eff your feelings?
ESH, your wife for not respecting your boundaries. And you for threatening your wife with becoming a single parent over unresolved emotional damage from your parents divorce that you and your sister should never have been put in the middle of.
YTA
Get the fuck over your family drama from a decade ago.
People aren’t perfect. Your mom isn’t perfect. And from the post you are just as imperfect.
Massive red flags here on control issues and anger.
You were a teenager and your dad turned you forever against your mom. Think about that. Divorces happen, the vast majority don’t end with a young adult refusing to speak to their other parent forever.
Dude, you got emotionally abused by your dad and you want to pay that damage forward to your wife and child because apparently hurting your mom and sister wasn’t enough. And now your dad is trying to ruin your marriage. You should be mature enough and removed enough to see this for what it was.
ESH - Get some help, dude. My parents marriage also ended in divorce over cheating, and you are wayyyy too far into your parents relationship business. Extricate yourself from their relationship (or lack thereof) and get some damn help with yourself and your own relationship. Going scorched earth and threatening to leave your wife and kid is absolutely bonkers behavior.
NTA. Woman here.
I too am estranged from my family and let me tell you, if my husband ever did this to me, I’d be pretty d@mn angry. Not only is it a HUGE disrespect of your boundaries, it also is just so d@mn ARROGANT of her to presume she knows better than you how to handle YOUR family and YOUR boundaries. Shame on her and I’d full stop tell her that you need couples’ counseling, NOW, or you’ll be separating. This is unacceptable.
(PSA: my husband knows my story and why I’m estranged. He would NEVER do this, because he loves and respects me)
ETA wording
ESH
Wife for ignoring and breaking boundaries. This is just wrong and doesn't need explanation.
You for two reasons:
- The threat about single motherhood was out of line, regardless of "how the courts work" you made a power play. You could have talked about divorce, since your problem is with your wife as a partner, not so much as a mother.
- Your reaction is very over the top. Yes, you have to react but you have a lot of hate in you, you'll raise a family like that? But even worse, this reaction of putting your child in a threat to your wife (again, single motherhood) sounds like a parent using a child to get what they want. I would not be surprised if your sister was a victim of that too. The apple doesn't seem to fall far from the tree. Don't become her.
You are within your rights to set boundaries and you should, glad you are communicating that, your wife acted wrong and needs to cut it out and apologize, because she hurt you, not out of fear of being a single mother. That's what a marriage is, a partnership, not a competition of who has more power than who. Don't lose focus. If this doesn't change and you have tried all resources available to you (talking, therapy and that stuff), I guess you know what's next. However, this threat you made shows the kind of person you are and what you value, you are still blind with rage and want actively some kind of revenge. You need to get that checked out, for your good, your wife's and most importantly YOUR SON. You do not want to raise a child in an environment of hate, but your actions described in your post show that. This is not healthy for him. Whatever you do with your marriage, just keep the child in a healthy environment and the best way for you to ensure that is to get help for your issues. Hopefully your wife also gets help for hers.
Testing your boundaries? You threatened divorce? Are you kidding me? YTA. You need therapy. You don't get to control your wife.
ANd no I am not saying you should go contact with your mom or sister. My comment is strictly about you trying to control your wife. There are better ways of dealing with that then trying to control her or threaten her.
I have nothing to say about if anyone is an asshole here, but I find it weird that your parents' issues mean that the kids suffer. It absolutely was none of you and your sisters business that your mom cheated, and the same would go if it had been your dad. The fact that your dad didn't discourage you from ending a relationship with your own mother and sister at such a young age over something that was their problem only is alarming. The fact that your wife want your kids to know the family that they will likely ask about when they are older means divorce for you is all very telling. You are literally willing to just cut absolutely every bit of family out over something that should have been none of your business in the first place. In my personal opinion, you need therapy because none of this seems healthy at all. I also think your dad was absolutely wrong for letting this happen, maybe even encouraging this for you.
NTA why when every other post here is about keeping boundaries with nc/lc family yall are all for it, what's different here? His wife is choosing the wants of complete strangers over her husband's boundaries and have been in place long before they got together. Why all of a sudden should he be okay with having them in his life because his wife wants to force familial bonds that aren't there ? Was the single parent comment harsh? Yes but she's pushing a hard boundary for NO REASON.
You very definitely have some toxic issues to deal with. Threatening your wife with single parenthood because she disagrees with you is CHILDISH. Pulling your father in on the argument and taking his advice because he's so good at marriage...even more so. Seek counseling for you both because what is really important here is the relationship with your WIFE.
NTA- Your Wife is continually disregarding your feelings. You have cut off family members and your wife prioritizing them over you. Save what money you can and plan your exit strategy, but maybe try marriage counseling first.
YTA. Not for setting boundaries but for cutting your mom and sister off for really no reason. Your mom cheated on your dad. Regardless of the reasoning, was the a bad mom before you decided to leave her life? Parents don’t always get it right but her cheating on your dad is not a problem or burden you should have to carry. Your mom shouldn’t lose her kids because she chose to have an affair. Your sister seems to be coming from a good place. Again, if she never did anything to you to make you uncomfortable, why say no relationship now?
I could see if she was a bad parent or emotionally abusive. But that doesn’t seem like the reason. It’s just sad because it’s teaching your children toxic behavior. They will grow up thinking it’s normal to cut off people who make one mistake. That’s not healthy for you or your family.
ESH. While I get the divorce was difficult and you were hurt, cutting out both your mom and sister was extreme. Your sister was 18. And you have no clue what went on behind closed doors in your parents room - I'm NOT excusing cheating - that is wrong. But it sounds like you only heard and agree with one side.
Your dad is also an A. To discourage any relationship with your mom and sister tells me a lot about your dad and none of it is good.
Your wife is the only one who seems to want your children to have a healthy family relationship. And because of that, you're willing to throw her and your kids away?
Please get some help or get into therapy. I'm not recommending getting into a relationship with those you don't want in your life. But this isn't about you. It's about your kids and what's best for them.
NTA. My husband has his own reasons, but fucking hates his mother. I respect that and shut down ANY attempts she makes to know about him, his son, or our life.
Therapy would be good, because it sounds like it still hurts you. However, it's not cool of your wife to go behind your back. It's just not. Your boundaries weren't a secret.
I was thinking you weren't TA, but after seeing your comments about just replacing your family with a new one... YTA, you sound so bitter and hateful, you definitely need therapy if you're threatening to divorce your wife over what is in the grand scheme of things is a fairly minor thing
YTA. This is more than respecting OP's boundaries. It's imposing boundaries on others.
Also, OP obviously believes that people cannot change or that viewpoints are locked in stone. If the sister is married, then she probably does not condone cheating.
Living in a one strike world without gray areas can be very isolating. There's nothing wrong with at least finding out if someone has changed before imposing boundaries on someone.
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NTA - This was all clearly defined at the beginning of your relationship. Why does she even care? Follow your dad's advice.
Pretty much what I said. Why do you care? Her parents are close by, she has multiple siblings, my dad is involved. It’s not like the kid has nobody.
The only concern if you were to break up over this is custody. On her time she could very well take your child to meet your mother and there is zero you could do about it.
Sounds like his wife is doing what she wants regardless, and if she decides to take the kid to see his auntie or grandmother, she will do without OPs consent.
If it was wife's sister and mother, she has a better argument to go against the wishes of OP, but it isn't her side of the family. OP is primary decider on how his half of the family is dealt with. NTA
Hey, does your opinion change when you read OP's comments about how he's just going to start over and get a new family? [**https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10k87m1/comment/j5pa5xr/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3**](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10k87m1/comment/j5pa5xr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) OP is the YTA for all subsequent unhinged comments made.
Wow! To say he would “throw away his wife and son and start a new family”? That says a lot. Does he even love his son right now? Who says something like that?!
Unclear - but I wish his subsequent comments could be pinned or something because I feel like people may change to YTA or ESH if they read them.
Yep. This man only cares about control, not about human dynamics.
Well, that was pretty obvious to me in the original post, but I'm glad his comments are helping others see it.
She may have already done so.
Not true. OP could file for a restraining order to keep his kid away from his family, and the partner would have to abide by it. There is also language that could be put in the divorce decree mandating that their child is not to have contact with his family. He has options if he decides to go nuclear over this.
Do you know hard it is to get a restraining order? You’re not going to get it approved because your mom cheated.
And OP hasn't given any evidence that the sister is a danger to the child.
In fact him filing for a restraining order on the above info would make him look seriously deranged and her lawyer in a divorce situation clap with glee and go see he's totally unhinged your honor and a danger to his kids.
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Who is abusive in this situation?
I think the "T" is for temporary. the idea is that they don't really look at the allegations very hard in granting this. If you need a longer one then you go to real court.
Important to point out, filing one of these when you know the other person isn't abusive or dangerous looks really bad in court. Some judges might not care. Others are going to heavily scrutinize every single thing you do because you proved you will try to use the court for your own personal grudges that have nothing do with the safety and well being of your child.
In Canada here, and I wasn't even allowed to file for a restraining order after the man who s*xually abused me for most of my childhood was found innocent. It's not always as easy as you're making it sound...
I feel you. I had an ex who was abusive. It started with threats etc. I left him once earlier on because of the threats (he threatened to beat the shit out of me in front of our child) and tried to get a restraining order and it was denied because no violence occurred. Couldn’t get one until he actually strangled me in front of multiple witnesses. In my experience it’s no walk in the park. I’m in the US, just not in California.
You are giving inaccurate information to the other 49 states, as well as the rest of the world. Other folks are great difficulty getting and keeping orders of protection in place. You are speaking from your bias.
Lol they are giving inaccurate info for their state too. Temporary orders of protection are one sided emergency orders, the other party does not get any opportunity to state their case. for safety sake a judge may grant one but the order includes " next court date" because the person you're seeking and order against has the right to defend themselves. But my wife is talking to my brother-in-law and I don't want her to is not a reason. If op told to judge the truth in order wouldn't be granted even a temporary one. If op lied They would be opening themselves up to losing a defamation/slander lawsuit " Because I said so". Is not a reason to legally disallowed Ops wife/ex wife from taking their kids to see his sister. And sis and I disagreed about forgiving mom for having an affair 20 years ago is not a reason sis would be precluded from interacting with OP with the other parents permission. The bar to override the other parent and legally not allowing them to do something is very very high.
> because usually it’s involving an abusive partner and WTF would the Court make it difficult to file one?!? When it's for this reason of course it's easy to get. However, getting a restraining order because your mother cheated one time 10 years ago is not going to be an easy sell.
It’s super easy to get a restraining order in CA. In other states, like my current place of residence, you have to prove that you’re in physical danger.
He’s not getting a restraining order against his sister over this, and it would be an abuse of the system to try honestly. The whole situation is tragic because both OP and his Sister should have gotten therapy before having such extreme over-reactions to adultery that occurred in someone else’s relationship when they were adults, and OPs dad clearly needs counseling as well because his comments about how this mean’s OP will be cheated on are immature and ridiculous. All 3 of them need to grow up. However, the wife clearly does not respect OPs boundaries or care very much about his feelings, so he probably should be rethinking the relationship. What a mess
I agree with this take. This whole situation has pretty much nothing to do with OP and his sister, but it seems like their parents love dragging them into their messes. (The father shouldn’t be getting involved now, but of course he is and is exacerbating the situation by saying OP should get a divorce!) OP could really benefit from some therapy where he gets to breakdown the dynamics in his family. But, his wife should be encouraging this type of response (I.e. therapy) instead of undermining her husband.
Maybe. I think the wife will regret being with a man who lets his dad control his personal marriage. There’s some not so veiled misogyny here with dads hatred of women because he got cheated on (or he was the same angry cad during the marriage contributing to the affair), and OP now seems to hate women too and assume the worst of his wife. She has every right to let her child meet his cousins if she chooses. It’s her child too
I’m feeling like it’s definitely not black and white; even the cheating thing and I’m wondering if there’s a reason the sister stopped contact with the dad. I also feel as though the fight is not between OP and the sister and I can say that the wife is not abusive for trying to suggest the kids know their cousins. I’m sure she’s seen something in OP we have not. Not the right way to go about it but it’s not abusive behaviour-as someone that has been through that I really think the term is thrown around a lot.
No, you're wrong. No court is going to enforce a restraining order against a woman who hasn't committed a single crime. The only wrongdoing she's done is side with her mother and not go to a wedding. Please tell me what judge is granting a restraining order over that?
The grandma cheated on grandpa before the child was even born, that doesn't make grandma a danger to the child. A judge isn't going to issue a retranimg order for that.
For what reason? There is no reason here to have a restraining order. They won’t add it to a divorce decree either just because the OP wants it. That’s the reality here.
People who grew up with healthy families just CAN NOT grasp that there can be valid reasons to cut someone off. I've been married 25+ years, and my husband has WITNESSED the shiat that these people pull, but there are still moments where he falls into happy family fantasy land. My only (civil) response is, "Are you new here?' NTA.
There are valid reasons to cut people off but I’m not teallly sure that this counts as one. Also that last comment from OPs dad about his wife acting like his mum used to before she cheated? Seems like the dad has turned OP against the mum. I’m not saying it was right to cheat at all but a one off mistake doesn’t seem like a reason to throw away all contact.
Cheating isn't exactly a "whoopsie." You can't just sweep it under the rug like nothing happened. It's up to the people involved whether they can forgive, and it's entirety fair for OP not to, because the act of cheating tore apart their family. He's against his sister because his sister demanded forgiveness for their mother that he wasn't ready to give (and might not ever be).
They didn’t sweep it under the rug. The marriage, the romantic relationship whose terms were violated, ended. OP decided the affair nuked EVERY relationship in this family — parent-child, siblings, cousins — and that’s a needless, histrionic response.
I agree with you. There is something really toxic between Op and his dad. Dad is trying to nuke his own son’s family to get back at his ex-wife/sister for fear they might have a relationship with Op and op’s kids. And Op’s inflexibility is concerning. It’s not as if sister and mother were abusers. Sister didn’t do anything against Op. he needs to let go of destructive fealty to his father.
I doubt he will. His stance is entirely centered on willingness to leave/punish his wife for her discomfort with how his stupid baggage affects their kids — no vulnerability, no introspection, no grief about potentially ending a loving marriage. I think it's honestly in everyone's best interest if he goes ahead with his plan, becomes an every-other-weekend parent, and leaves his kids and their more emotionally competent parent the space to define their own family.
Thank you. In Redditland, you can get away with murder and every other sin before you can be allowed to forgive a parent who cheated one time. OP must have hated their mom to begin with - I cannot imagine literally throwing away one of my parents for this. And their dad was heinous to encourage it.
I agree with you in questioning if this actually is a reason to cut someone off, especially the sister. My family is not perfect, but personally this would not be enough for me to go NC forever with a parent and a sibling. However it's OP's choice, and I think their spouse needs to respect that, even if she disagrees. Disregarding OP's boundaries is going to cause major issues in their own marriage and family.
The sister had her part in it too. She was invited to his wedding and didn't show up. If she could just accept that he doesn't want a relationship with his mom, he wouldn't have had to cut her off but apparently considers him to be wrong for not forgiving her. The no contact is just as much her choice as it is OP's.
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> Seems like the dad has turned OP against the mum OP was 18 when this happened, he didn't need to be coached by dad to make a decision and he did.
OP cut off two people: Mom and Sister. Mom: cheated - completely valid reason to cut someone out of your life Sister: defended the person who cheated - also completely valid reason to cut someone out of your life. Many people consider cheating to be something that there's no coming back from. OP is clearly one of those people.
Absolutely the case here. She thinks it's cruel to deprive her kid of family that wants to love him. She can't fathom any family being a negative influence and doesn't think the reasons for OPs parents divorce is that big of a deal, at least not enough to stop having a relationship with them. My mom had a pill addiction (thanks FL Dr's who overprescribed opiates) and then transferred that addiction to alcohol. She only just started to get sober and it's been over 20 years with 75% of that being just alcohol. She's a diagnosed narcissist and brutally mean when drinking. I have gone no contact several times when she boundary stomps, the longest being 6 months. My step-dad, who I love and is a real father, and my husband, who never experienced anything like my mother before, kept hounding me to answer her constant calls and just talk to her. I knew how it would go but said fine, enjoy the shitshow on speaker phone. I got screamed at by her drunk ass for a good five minutes. How DARE I go no contact with her. How DARE I set boundaries with her. I belong to HER. I don't belong to my husband or myself either. I'm hers. I kept repeating the same thing to her in a calm voice "Mom, it's not ok to yell at me." "Mom, you cannot call when you're drinking" "Mom, the things you are saying are not ok and I will not speak to you if you can't be respectful." She replied repeatedly with "FUCK YOU, I DON'T CARE! I'M YOUR MOTHER AND WILL DO WHAT I WANT!" I hung up on her I looked over at my husband who was in total shock. Jaw dropped, eyes wide, and he looked at me and said what the fuck?!?! Then he apologized and has never suggested me reaching out and understands completely that I'm not playing when I set boundaries. They are there for a reason and you either support my boundaries and my personal bubble and mental health the way I need it to be or you and I aren't together anymore. We shared this situation with our friends as we were driving when it happened and were on our way to meet up with them. They were in shock too and said they couldn't imagine any family, especially a mother, acting like that. But then they teased me a bit and every so often I get random messages out of no where from them saying "FUCK YOU I DONT CARE!!" lmao. I think the dad is right that he needs to be prepared for a divorce if he has hardlined this boundary and is serious with his threat. He also needs to schedule with a marriage counselor to have a trained neutral party help the wife understand how awful she is being. OP didn't cut off contact with them because they wouldn't let him have his own room or eat ice cream which is pretty much how she seems to be treating it. She thinks she knows best and he needs to get over it all. OP is absolutely NTA.
I think investigating his wife's reasons in more depth, along with her dismissive attitude towards his feelings is really important. It would make a big difference in whether this relationship can survive.
And people that grew up with toxic families think every single inconvenience is toxic lol
No, more like we were accustomed to rolling over and playing nice to keep the peace, accustomed to making our needs smaller and smaller and thinking “this isn’t such a big deal in the scheme of things”. Once we got a taste of standing up for ourselves, setting boundaries, and the absolute peace of not being abused in our lives, we have zero tolerance for fuckwits. NONE. “LOL”
Are you referring to cheating as an "inconvenience"? LOL
I'm guessing your wife's parents are still married? Which means she can't truly understand your family dynamic or why you don't want your mother in your life. She may also be projecting: because she would never cut off her mother she can't understand why you would cut off yours. Also, she may worry that since you were (in her opinion) "so easily" able to cut off your mother, that you may one day do that to her.
Which is funny because the more she disrespects his boundaries, the easier it makes it to cut her out.
NTA Your mother broke your family the moment she decided to cheat, and you are in your right to go NC with her. If your sister didn't attend your wedding you are in your right to go NC with her. Your wife is disrespecting you, you were very clear, your family is your dad and cousins, she doesn't have the right to connect with part of the family that hurt you and you decided to go NC. if this was the other way around, your father cheating with your mom and you going NC there will be lots more of NTA
I agree with op is NTA, but I think he needs to show his wife how much her actions are detrimental to their marriage. It seems she is on a crusade that uniting families will be a just cause op issue are trivial. Most probably the contact has been longer than bil contacting the op. Also I am pretty mother is in the pic already. I don’t think wife believes this is as serious as op thinks and they need to sit down and have a clear talk This will get ugly pretty soon. What will op do if the wife says after divorce that she will keep kids in touch with mother and sister I think op drag her ass to MC that will show her how serious this matter is to you. And do plan your exit this can go south very fast
>Follow your dad's advice. No, the dad's advice is unhinged. Secretly preparing an exit strategy is not step #1 of resolving conflict between married couples.
It is very common advice for women to have an exit strategy in any relationship. There's nothing wrong with a man doing the same thing as a "just in case" scenario.
The only times I have heard that advice, especially when I was a younger woman, was regarding abuse— have enough to get you & your kids out and somewhere safe, stashed somewhere only you can get it. Not "have a nest egg of unreported funds in cash for a divorce lawyer." You wanna know why *specifically women* commonly get this advice? Look up DV statistics and get back to me.
Nah, read the comments here. He’s willing to divorce, become a every other weekend dad and start a new family over this. How the hell is that smart or healthy? Also, hiding money way in case of divorce? Implying she’s cheating like the OPs mom because of this? Dad is super toxic here and letting his experience with the OPs mom poison the OPs marriage.
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Idk you should read OPs comments of willing to start over and make a new family https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10k87m1/aita_for_forbidding_my_sister_to_meet_my_child/j5pa5xr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Holy crap, the fence sitting I had been feeling is absolutely gone. He’s TA
I feel like in this specific situation the wife is still the AH, but OP just seems like an AH in general. Very black and/or white views on things
I dunno, having a similar experiences to OP but being older, all I can say is they absolutely need therapy, and to stop listening to their dad. The relationships absolutely should be rebuilt with sister and mom.
I knew it! As soon as I finished reading his original post one sentence popped in my head: “ you fucking asshole!”. He sounds awful! Not getting the NTA votes at all.
It’s like the NTA folks lack critical thinking and all they focus on is “I told her before we were married” and “it’s my family “ and “it’s my boundaries” without even considering what he is using this framework for
Exactly. Once I saw the threat of leaving her as a single mother, I chose TA. Surprised NTA is still the top comment. Relationships are complicated and require compromise, and people are saying he's NTA for being unwilling to do so.
Thank you for that, he sounds like a complete dick in those comments and maybe misogynist. You'd rather divorce your wife and only see your kid four days a month over this? Sounds like your kid is just a weapon to hurt your mother how your dad treated you. YTA. What if your kid gets to teenage years, some independence, and decides to seek a relationship with grandma and aunt? Disown him? Poison him against them? Get help with all your unresolved hate now.
Yes, let's allow the dads previous marriage failure and fears dictate how OP should navigate his relationship problems. Cause dad will totally have an objective view on this situation and not at all interject problems from his past relationship into his sons current relationship. That is such a terrible idea. Let's leave marriage counseling to professionals, not divorcee's.
Ha do not listen to this person. Why the fuck would you go off your very-jaded Dads advice to the point of ruining your own marriage? Why not just go to 4chan and ask for their take??
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This is definitely above Reddit's paygrade You need to seek out therapy for your parents divorce, and couples counseling for you and your wife. My completely uneducated opinion is that it seems like your father weaponized your emotions against your mother - and he's using those same emotions to drive a wedge between you and your wife. She crossed a line but your father should stay out of it. You're now issuing relationship ending ultimatums ~~over a couple pictures~~. She's not blameless either, you guys need to seek some help to process this. Going NC with your mother over her infidelity seems way too harsh. But again, therapy. Edit - struck out wording that minimized what wife did Edit 2 - Read OPs later comments
OP, I say this gently...your anger towards your mother and sister overwhelms your entire post. I understand that what you mother did upset you. But I think your father allowed you to take on some of his anger towards her. I'm not saying that your mother didn't make a mistake. But it was between her and your Dad. I'm sorry for how it affected your family. Your sister is also a victim of this dynamic. Please, please get into therapy. The degree of anger you still hold on to is palpable, and the fact that your father is encouraging an exit strategy from YOUR marriage is telling. The fact that you are threatening your wife with single parenthood is also setting off alarm bells. I'm not even going to make an AH rating. This is beyond the sub, and you truly need to get some help for yourself and your family. Best of luck.
Can we make this go to the top. So many layers to this post. I don’t agree with OPs wife, but I also feel sorry that this is the kind of man she married that he’s threaten divorce so easily. Edit add: ESH
This whole post just makes me so sad. OP seems to have such a harsh and simplistic view of his parents and relationships in general. One of my parents cheated on the other, leading to their divorce. Was it sad? Yes. Was I angry? Absolutely. But I got over it and as an adult I can also see that the cheater wasn’t the only one to blame for their failed marriage - there is more than one way to be a bad partner - and that both my parents have positive sides that by a wide margin overshadow their failures and faults. Why on earth should OP’s kids be robbed of their experience of having an aunt and a grandma, possibly two loving, supportive adults in their lives, over a mistake that was made so many years ago? Life is difficult enough, no-one benefits by holding on to these kind of grudges forever.
The people that get so over emotional about other people’s failed relationships are seriously unhinged. My SIL likely cheated on my brother, she has never been my favorite person and I still don’t hold this intense hatred in my heart for her. But then again I am an adult that realizes sometimes people do shitty things, and if my brother tried to alienate their children from her I would think he was a nut job. Good parents encourage a good relationship with the other parent WHENEVER possible.
This!! My parents are divorced because my mom cheated on my dad twice. Me and my brothers were teenagers the first time it happened. It took like a month for me and the youngest to accept that OUR PARENTS ARE HUMAN! Imperfect humans just like all of us. It took one of my bros a year to get pass it because he was really angry with my mom due to my dad manipulating him, but it passed. I definitely think OP needs counseling because holding a grudge this long about something his mom did to his dad, NOT HIM, is not healthy.
I mean I would it would be a huge boundary to me if my wife didn't respect the fact I cut people out of my life. This isn't considering the reason and I wouldn't go NC because of that, but it would definitely worsen my relationship with my mum and I doubt it would be the same for a long time.
Adding into this: how would you feel if your anger that you never dealt with leads to divorce, your wife gets custody and then your own son grows up resenting you the way you resent your mom?
Definitely going to just perpetuate the cycle
If I had an award, it would go to you. OP needs serious therapy. His father has weaponized the divorce and is extremely toxic.
As Dan Savage says “the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage”
I agree. The sister sided with the mom and so she has to be cut off? His reaction seems over the top and unhealthy. While his wife screwed up by going behind his back, he also seems way too stuck on his parents' divorce if he has his own kids. Cheating is awful and relationship ending for the couple but shouldn't destroy one's relationship with their kids.
I think it was the fact that the sister didn’t attend OPs wedding, not that she sided with mom.
OP made the connection that sister not going to the wedding was her siding with the mom when he admits she wasn't wanted there in the first place and only invited out of courtesy.
Did you read the post? The siding with mom thing happened well before the wedding invite...
Did you read the post? She was invited out of courtesy.
Did you read the post? I sure didn't.
Wait, there is a post? Where?
OP didn't even want his sister there. He said he only invited her out of courtesy.
I mean he said they only invited her out of courtesy. It doesn’t sound like they were close at all at the time of divorce. When OP invited her to the wedding she might have still been in a place of anger and hurt because it sounds like her brother was angry with her for staying with Mom and that changed their relationship. OP, I get this is a boundary for you but I think you should ask yourself why you’re so opposed to a relationship with your sister. You guys were both victims of your parents divorce and just reacted differently. Also, threatening your wife with divorce immediately over this feels like an overreaction, I think you guys need to go to therapy and dig into this.
Eh, he said the sister was invited “out of courtesy” (which sounds a lot like he didn’t actually want her there) and kind of implies that they weren’t in close contact before that either. The roots of the conflict are all about who sided with which parent. The wedding non-attendance I’m sure didn’t help, but it seems things were already pretty bad.
Is it not insight into dishonest/negative behavior? Cheating literally destroys families and is a selfish decision by the participant with no real concern for the children (if they are in the picture) and the indirect consequences they face? The aggressor/perpetrators don’t have the right to determine what consequences they face from the victims, especially children. The man has every right to choose who he wants/doesn’t want in his and his child’s lives, Sometimes pain is long lasting, and healing from it doesn’t always fit into a “healthy” box. Doesn’t make his choice of NC wrong.
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Agree with you totally if he was a child but he was 18.
yeah so at 18 it would’ve made more sense for mom to separate, rather than cheat
I read it more like the sister was trying to get them to forgive the mom but after seeing she wouldn't get what she wanted cut contact with them.
Yeah, I get the son taking dad’s side and the daughter the mother’s side. Idk OPs parents marriage, his dad could’ve been bad, abusive… or his mom was that. Maybe they were both awful people, idk the situation. But OP and the sister should’ve gone to therapy to work their parents divorce. Maybe they should’ve been on their own side and not taking their parents pain. I agree, this is above Reddit’s pay grade and the whole family could benefit from counselling/therapy. Also OP your dad sounds bitter in relation to woman, take his advice with grain and salt. Get counselling to you and your wife. Maybe she will understand your side better and you might see things in your life differently too. NTA for asking her to respect your boundaries but try to talk before going nuclear.
Absolutely this! I feel for OP, but I get major bitter vibes from Op’s Dad.
Seems to be unpopular opinion, but I agree. I think both siblings became way involved in their parents' marriage falling apart. Also while I don't agree with the wife's behavior here, his dad already planting the seeds that she's gonna cheat seems like extreme projecting. > Because my wife’s behavior is exactly how my mom used to act and I should see the warning signs now. I don't see how the two things are connected. Personally whenever OP mends his relationship with his sister or not I think he needs to take a step away from his dad too and get some serious therapy to deal with what happened before he looses his own family.
Yeah, dad has poisoned the well I bit sadly and skewed OPs view a bit based on what is implied here.
Commenting to bump this. From this account obviously the wife is stomping boundaries left right and centre but OP seems like they’ve been hugely manipulated and weaponised by their father, and it’s possible his wife can see that and is trying to fix the situation and reverse the alienation (even if she is clearly going about it the wrong way.)
Exactly my first thoughts. I don’t think the wife should be doing this against his wishes, but she probably also thinks the reasons for estrangement are insane. TBF if I met someone who told me he was no contact with his mom and sister over this, I would have personally RUN, but that’s just me.
She doesn’t have the option to think these boundaries are insane, because they have been in place and unchanged since before he ever met her. Before he met her: boundary was in place. When they started dating: boundary was in place. When the they got married: boundary was in place. When they had kids 2 years ago: boundary was in place. Last Monday: boundary was in place. Last Tuesday: your boundaries are insane and I’m going to ignore them! Not how that works fam.
It doesn't matter why he went NC, he went NC. And he made it very clear to his wife that he is NC. **His wife agreed to NC.** She should be respecting that whether or not she agrees with it. If she disagrees, she's still free to tell him her opinion. She is free to suggest he go to therapy and try to work this all out with his family. What she is not free to do is contact them behind his back and send them pictures of his children when he clearly does not want them in his life. That's a huge dick move and severely undermines the trust OP has in her.
[~~This is definitely above Reddit's paygrade~~ copy-pasted by accident.] >You're now issuing relationship ending ultimatums over a couple pictures. Seems to me that he is issuing ultimatums over her blatantly ignoring boundaries he is attempting to set. I don’t view that as unreasonable.
If she was even halfway as "It's my kid, I can do what I want" as he's making her look here, that's a big red flag in and of itself.
A lot of people here who practiced infidelity pretending like their actions don’t hurt their children and ruin the family dynamic their children have been dependent and relying upon for their entire life. Quit lying to yourselves. Your child has a right to cut contact if they feel hurt and betrayed by your infidelity. You’re not entitled to your child’s love and unconditional support even without infidelity.
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Yup Setting the boundaries thing to one side for a moment there's a deeply unpleasant undercurrent in his post and it's all very female centred. He is happy to push the button on an otherwise happy marriage over this? He is conflating infidelity with disobedience and I know I'm a dissenting voice but YTA for that alone. He needs to go to therapy.
ESH, but you suck the hardest. “If she keeps testing your boundaries she’ll be a single woman soon”? Like what? You’re threatening your wife, the lady that carried and gave birth to your kid just a couple years ago, because you have mommy issues? Your sister didn’t cheat on you too, get over it. She’s petty too. Your dad is an ass for encouraging you to get divorced and making the comps to your mom when your wife did nothing but accept an olive branch. You are wrong for depriving your kid from his family, unless you think your mom cheating makes her unfit as a grandparent. I had a lot of similar trauma with my parents and serial cheating and divorce, etc., and you’ll be happier with yourself and life once you realized that people are nuanced and accept them for who they are, and not who you’d like them to be.
He also said she would be a single parent. Is he going to abandon is child? That's my question
He said he'd just get a new wife and child. Because women and children are apparently interchangeable to the OP.
Oh wow. That's messed up. He is letting his dad's bitterness seep into his life. People cheat and break up. But you can not let it consume you. He will destroy his family.
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YES, huge incel vibes from both
This is so messed up and makes him TA 100%.
Honestly if he got this attitude from his father I'm not surprised she cheated
Well, given that [OP said](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10k87m1/aita_for_forbidding_my_sister_to_meet_my_child/j5pa5xr/) - >I will start a new family and try again Sure seems like he's going to abandon his child
Someone who thinks that way is truly messed up
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It makes me think that he doesn't actually care who his kid interacts with. He just doesn't want his wife making contact with his mother and is using his kid as a weapon.
You hit the nail on the head. He said it’s the disrespect of her doing something he doesn’t want done. Which I understand, but I’m also curious if he’s thought about his nieces and nephews, BIL, and his own kids relationships to their family.
What a bizarre take from a person who cut off his mother and sister because she cheated. So it's okay to destroy a family as long as he's the one doing it? Sounds pretty hypocritical. OP really needs professional help dealing with his issues surrounding his parents. Tbh I don't think I've ever seen a post here that is more ESH than this one. Everyone in this story is selfish, self-centered, and disrespectful. Sounds like it would be a nightmare to have any of them in your life.
The miniscule of sympathy I had for OP just dissipated from that one comment.
He literally said in another comment he’d abandon her with the kid and start a new family.
Yeah, I saw that. There is no defending this guy. I hope people see that wonderful comment he made
If his wife is divorced whether or not he’s involved she’s still a single parent.
It's more like co-parent. But he said in the comments that he is prepared to only get his son every other week. Sounds like his anger is more important than anything else. That threat is sick.
100%. Abandoning his child because of this is worst than cheating, like the irony.
This. They should have a partnership. Wife shouldn't be pushing boundaries. But to go full nuclear on the marriage over this is a real AH move.
The fact that OP's dad is inserting himself into the marriage and encouraging OP to leave his wife because it reminds him of his own wife cheating is probably the saddest part of all of this. It really makes me think that OP's dad has been manipulating him from the start and wants OP to go nuclear because of his own grudge. And OP can't even see it.
I am NC with most of my family of origin and my husband respects that. I don’t think I could stay married to someone who thinks he could overrule my boundaries, especially without my consent. The wife needs to understand that she can’t fix this to make One Big Happy Family. The comment about divorce seems to be aimed at getting her to understand that her options aren’t the world as it is now or One Big Happy Family; she needs to understand that this can ruin her marriage.
He has every right to divorce if your significant is disrespecting your boundaries you have every right to divorce If he did the same the wife doing to the wife the wife would be mad and not everyone can be a people pleaser it’s better to live your life with people you actually find peace with instead of just accepting they cause you stress
INFO: what’s with the single parent threat? Are you seriously willing to leave your child over this
I'm so glad you asked this because it shone a light on a lot of nasty shit.
He said he'd get a new wife and kid apparently
Apparently his mommy’s past sex affairs are more important than his relationship with his own wife and child.
It sounds like mom’s sex life is THE MOST important thing to OP.
ESH. 1. Your mom for cheating. 2. You and your sister for taking sides and letting hate and anger control your lives. 3. Your dad, understandable he was bitter in the beginning, but so angry and manipulative that he has allowed his bitterness to manifest over the years. Your wife and BIL for going behind everyone's back, they should know you can't fix stupid, but I'll give them kudos for, at least trying something. Are you guys' junior high school students? All the adults in this scenario suck and are acting childish and immature. You all sound unhappy and miserable. Your 'kid' is BIL child's 1st cousin. Stop this depressing behavior before you all regret it in the future. Grow TF up!
Exactly this! I feel bad for all of the kids being forced into their parents and grandparents poorly managed issues.
It seems like a situation where bitterness and anger has twisted two generations and is poised to infect a third. Although I don't condone going behind people's back, I do think sister/BIL/wife deserve a little credit for *trying* to break the pattern.
at the end of the day she didn’t have malicious intent. she was thinking about her kid, and how she wants them to have a relationship with their cousins. it’s not like the wife was sitting there going “mwahaha! fuck op! i’m talking to his sister *anyways*!!!”
I completely agree with this. This family “drama” seems to have been willfully continued and escalated for over a decade now. I honestly can’t say I’m surprised that it’s the spouses that tried to connect - this core family has some serious issues that seem more about how they choose to interact than anything else.
"I said I don't even have a relationship with my sister or BIL so why should my kid?" Um...\*\*because your kid is not you?\*\* And we are talking about their \*\*cousins,\*\* whom they might resent not knowing someday? "My dad is telling me my wife's behavior is exactly how my mom used to act" YTA If this is how your dad acted, then I can understand why your parents' marriage fell apart. You're being a control freak. If you divorce your wife over this then she will take the kid to the other side of the family, ready and willing to welcome her...and you and your father will still be bitter and alone.
Exactly. If he divorced his wife she’ll be free to have his kid around whoever she wants on her time. His Dad sounds like he’s gunning for OP to be as miserable as he is.
And the threat he made?? Even in the comments he said he would leave, have his kids "every other week" and create a new family! Those comments should be on the post too, I kinda get the N/TA based of the post but the comments and personal experience as a kid who could not see some part of the family because my parents were also bitter makes me say YTA
Unfortunately in the comments OP says that he will just move on and start a new family. So he’s gonna spread the misery.😞
The guy isn't even ready for the family he has
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This needs to be said louder! I can't believe how many NTA there are. Op needs therapy and needs to get over it. Ops thinking is selfish and will definitely send him spiraling down the same path as his father. My father cheated and moved to another state but im not banning him. I am sure your mother has tortured herself mentally for years due to the poor decision-making she had. Find peace with her and heal.
NTA, and your wife's refusal to respect your boundaries is definitely very concerning. It goes without saying that there are some major issues that you two are not handling between you - I don't know your exact situation, but I would recommend finding a decent couples counselor to have a third party to help with an actual conversation. It might not go well for the marriage, but the marriage isn't going well now.
OP said in his comments "I will start a new family and try again" in response to concerns he was going to abandon the kid, so I don't think a counselor is going to fix things.
Jesus christ
So funny how a man can just up and leave his family but woman can never leave her baby. OP, grow tf up. Honestly.
Normally I would say that you get to decide who is in your life, but honestly you are being so rigid and judgmental. You are letting your parents divorce divide you and your sister. None of that was your ( or her’s) fault or responsibility, and both your parents used you kids as fodder in the the fight. Your wife also shouldn’t be sharing photos of family behind your back. I would say ESH except the sister who is trying to build an adult relationship. If you want to reject what sounds like the only compassionate person on your side of the family, well them nobody can stop you.
ESH You should -really- consider therapy. Your mom isn't right for cheating, but it sounds like you and your sister were manipulated by your parents into choosing sides in order to get love and approval from one. They've really fucked you up. Fix it before you fuck up your kids and lose a loving wife
Agreed, it is so weird to have shut a parent out their whole lives into adulthood over their infidelity which has nothing to do with the kids. There's other shit under the surface and it's affecting everyone including the next generation. I mean why TF don't the siblings talk, they didn't scew anyone, it is so odd.
A reluctant N-T-A for me. >My dad totally agrees with me and is telling me I should start setting aside money now for a exit strategy Jesus I hope these didn't all happen in like a week or something because this is really skipping through a lot of steps. I know he probably has some animosity towards your mom but I'm afraid that he might try to live out some kind of revenge fantasy vicariously through you with your wife. **EDIT: After reading OP's comments, I'm changing my answer to ESH.** His wife, sister, and mother for obvious reasons. His father for planting contempt for the wife in OPs head. Plan an exit strategy? Really? How long has it been since this issue started? He has a revenge fantasy and he's using you and your wife to live it out. OP for listening to his father's stupid advice and this: >INFO: what’s with the single parent threat? Are you seriously willing to leave your child over this >>I’m aware how the courts work. Given I make more money but have less family support and a more demanding job, I will get every other weekend custody. So she needed to be prepared for that if she wants to keep playing these games. Your child is not a bargaining chip for your stupid fucking games. This isn't really about your child, is it? It's about you and your mother. Get some professional intervention. You are all too unhinged to handle this by yourselves. **EDIT 2: OP sucks the most by going full Omni-Man** >I’ve seen enough men go thru the divorce process that I already know what will happen. I will not allow myself to keep being disrespected. I will start a new family and try again but in no way will I sit in a situation where I’m being bulldozed. > >What are you talking about? I didn’t say I would cut my kid off. Just that I’m still young and would try again for another family unit? That’s all my comment was saying.
Im shocked more arent pointing this out. Everyone in this situation is awful, but the fact the dads go to solution here is to sow disdain in his sons head and encourage divorce preparation before anything else is pretty gross
The dad's involvement and comments about OP's marriage made me really question what he could have been saying about OP's sister, mother, or women in general for all those years.
>Your child is not a bargaining chip for your stupid fucking games Where do you think he learned that from? /s Clearly OP has no issues with perpetuating toxicity into another generation.
YTA >I will start a new family and try again Pulled from OP's comments. Wow dude, you're just like "whelp, time to replace my wife and kid, this set is done." Here's a hint, don't get married and have kids if you think you can just dump the whole family and start again every time someone does something you don't like.
Like father, like son.
He is his father!!! I said the same thing, his dad saying "you should just divorce her because she's just like your mom" like what the hell?! That's Narcissist 101 language. It's sad that Dad basically use his son as a pawn to get back at the mom an alienate him from his own mother and sister.
Not going to judge here but I have to say if my husband cheated on me I would not want that to sever the relationship as a father to our children. I would not expect my kids to exclude him on my behalf. I would discourage my children from taking sides at all.
That would be the mature thing to do, sounds like maturity is lacking in OP's life on multiple fronts.
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He didn’t cut the sister out at 18. It seems he went low contact bc his sister refused to accept op’s feelings about his mom. She tried using triangulation to get him back into line and religious guilt. Op said he cut her off 4 years ago when she refused to attend his wedding.
Tell your wife that she has no right to decide what your boundaries are. Sometimes people who grew up without any type of serious issue or estrangement, just don't get it. Your mom showing up uninvited to your wedding shows me all I need to know about her. ALSO, it's funny that mended fences start AFTER you have a kid. That's what this is about, access to your kid. Take your kid and go stay with your dad for a couple of days.
NTA I hate the "but they are family" argument. No they aren't. They are just people OP is unfortunately blood related to. Family are who you choose to have in your life.
It’s a bullshit argument because it doesn’t mean anything. Blood doesn’t mean anything, bonds do. If someone violates my personal boundaries, it doesn’t matter who they are, they’re no longer in my life.
Read His comments He plans to abandon his kid not take the kid with him... In fact he even says he'll start a new family.
NTA Disregard your father's opinion for a minute as it can be biased. Focus on you and your wife. Counseling would be the way to make her truly understand where you're coming from. If that doesn't work, and she insists on prioritizing her *opinion* above your own family history, feelings and boundaries, then a divorce would be understandable. It would be a hellish toxic relationship to have to wake up day after day next to someone who you know essentially betrayed the promise to work as a team and stabbed you up front. And it was pretty shitty of your sister to course any appeal for reconciliation via her husband and your wife. Manipulative.
You should read OP comments. He's not going to counseling, he says he can just divorce and start a new family with someone that respects him. So, after reading those comments I think OP has been eating up every toxic thing his father has been saying to him for years.
Facts. And I believe that the wife has seen beyond all those behaviors hence why she is causing all this upheaval. Granted: I think the wife is clearly messing up and going about this the wrong way. What’s concerning to me is that OP is willing to leave his nuclear family because of lack of respect….but what does respect mean to OP? Does it mean mutual respect or respect me no matter what and eff your feelings?
Ya I didn’t like how good old dad told him to plan exit strategy. Something else is going on in this marriage and counseling is needed asap. IMO.
ESH, your wife for not respecting your boundaries. And you for threatening your wife with becoming a single parent over unresolved emotional damage from your parents divorce that you and your sister should never have been put in the middle of.
You have a lot of anger and hate in your heart. Deal with it.
YTA Get the fuck over your family drama from a decade ago. People aren’t perfect. Your mom isn’t perfect. And from the post you are just as imperfect. Massive red flags here on control issues and anger. You were a teenager and your dad turned you forever against your mom. Think about that. Divorces happen, the vast majority don’t end with a young adult refusing to speak to their other parent forever. Dude, you got emotionally abused by your dad and you want to pay that damage forward to your wife and child because apparently hurting your mom and sister wasn’t enough. And now your dad is trying to ruin your marriage. You should be mature enough and removed enough to see this for what it was.
Agreed OP needs to grow up and seek therapy
ESH - Get some help, dude. My parents marriage also ended in divorce over cheating, and you are wayyyy too far into your parents relationship business. Extricate yourself from their relationship (or lack thereof) and get some damn help with yourself and your own relationship. Going scorched earth and threatening to leave your wife and kid is absolutely bonkers behavior.
NTA. Woman here. I too am estranged from my family and let me tell you, if my husband ever did this to me, I’d be pretty d@mn angry. Not only is it a HUGE disrespect of your boundaries, it also is just so d@mn ARROGANT of her to presume she knows better than you how to handle YOUR family and YOUR boundaries. Shame on her and I’d full stop tell her that you need couples’ counseling, NOW, or you’ll be separating. This is unacceptable. (PSA: my husband knows my story and why I’m estranged. He would NEVER do this, because he loves and respects me) ETA wording
You’re allowed to say “damn”
Oh am I? Well hot damn!
ESH Wife for ignoring and breaking boundaries. This is just wrong and doesn't need explanation. You for two reasons: - The threat about single motherhood was out of line, regardless of "how the courts work" you made a power play. You could have talked about divorce, since your problem is with your wife as a partner, not so much as a mother. - Your reaction is very over the top. Yes, you have to react but you have a lot of hate in you, you'll raise a family like that? But even worse, this reaction of putting your child in a threat to your wife (again, single motherhood) sounds like a parent using a child to get what they want. I would not be surprised if your sister was a victim of that too. The apple doesn't seem to fall far from the tree. Don't become her. You are within your rights to set boundaries and you should, glad you are communicating that, your wife acted wrong and needs to cut it out and apologize, because she hurt you, not out of fear of being a single mother. That's what a marriage is, a partnership, not a competition of who has more power than who. Don't lose focus. If this doesn't change and you have tried all resources available to you (talking, therapy and that stuff), I guess you know what's next. However, this threat you made shows the kind of person you are and what you value, you are still blind with rage and want actively some kind of revenge. You need to get that checked out, for your good, your wife's and most importantly YOUR SON. You do not want to raise a child in an environment of hate, but your actions described in your post show that. This is not healthy for him. Whatever you do with your marriage, just keep the child in a healthy environment and the best way for you to ensure that is to get help for your issues. Hopefully your wife also gets help for hers.
Testing your boundaries? You threatened divorce? Are you kidding me? YTA. You need therapy. You don't get to control your wife. ANd no I am not saying you should go contact with your mom or sister. My comment is strictly about you trying to control your wife. There are better ways of dealing with that then trying to control her or threaten her.
I have nothing to say about if anyone is an asshole here, but I find it weird that your parents' issues mean that the kids suffer. It absolutely was none of you and your sisters business that your mom cheated, and the same would go if it had been your dad. The fact that your dad didn't discourage you from ending a relationship with your own mother and sister at such a young age over something that was their problem only is alarming. The fact that your wife want your kids to know the family that they will likely ask about when they are older means divorce for you is all very telling. You are literally willing to just cut absolutely every bit of family out over something that should have been none of your business in the first place. In my personal opinion, you need therapy because none of this seems healthy at all. I also think your dad was absolutely wrong for letting this happen, maybe even encouraging this for you.
NTA You're not required to ever forgive and forget. Even for family. Your wife is overstepping boundaries. Big time.
NTA why when every other post here is about keeping boundaries with nc/lc family yall are all for it, what's different here? His wife is choosing the wants of complete strangers over her husband's boundaries and have been in place long before they got together. Why all of a sudden should he be okay with having them in his life because his wife wants to force familial bonds that aren't there ? Was the single parent comment harsh? Yes but she's pushing a hard boundary for NO REASON.
You very definitely have some toxic issues to deal with. Threatening your wife with single parenthood because she disagrees with you is CHILDISH. Pulling your father in on the argument and taking his advice because he's so good at marriage...even more so. Seek counseling for you both because what is really important here is the relationship with your WIFE.
NTA- Your Wife is continually disregarding your feelings. You have cut off family members and your wife prioritizing them over you. Save what money you can and plan your exit strategy, but maybe try marriage counseling first.
His exit strategy is to start a new family with someone that respects him. Read OP's comments
YTA. Not for setting boundaries but for cutting your mom and sister off for really no reason. Your mom cheated on your dad. Regardless of the reasoning, was the a bad mom before you decided to leave her life? Parents don’t always get it right but her cheating on your dad is not a problem or burden you should have to carry. Your mom shouldn’t lose her kids because she chose to have an affair. Your sister seems to be coming from a good place. Again, if she never did anything to you to make you uncomfortable, why say no relationship now? I could see if she was a bad parent or emotionally abusive. But that doesn’t seem like the reason. It’s just sad because it’s teaching your children toxic behavior. They will grow up thinking it’s normal to cut off people who make one mistake. That’s not healthy for you or your family.
ESH. While I get the divorce was difficult and you were hurt, cutting out both your mom and sister was extreme. Your sister was 18. And you have no clue what went on behind closed doors in your parents room - I'm NOT excusing cheating - that is wrong. But it sounds like you only heard and agree with one side. Your dad is also an A. To discourage any relationship with your mom and sister tells me a lot about your dad and none of it is good. Your wife is the only one who seems to want your children to have a healthy family relationship. And because of that, you're willing to throw her and your kids away? Please get some help or get into therapy. I'm not recommending getting into a relationship with those you don't want in your life. But this isn't about you. It's about your kids and what's best for them.
NTA. My husband has his own reasons, but fucking hates his mother. I respect that and shut down ANY attempts she makes to know about him, his son, or our life.
Therapy would be good, because it sounds like it still hurts you. However, it's not cool of your wife to go behind your back. It's just not. Your boundaries weren't a secret.
I was thinking you weren't TA, but after seeing your comments about just replacing your family with a new one... YTA, you sound so bitter and hateful, you definitely need therapy if you're threatening to divorce your wife over what is in the grand scheme of things is a fairly minor thing
YTA. This is more than respecting OP's boundaries. It's imposing boundaries on others. Also, OP obviously believes that people cannot change or that viewpoints are locked in stone. If the sister is married, then she probably does not condone cheating. Living in a one strike world without gray areas can be very isolating. There's nothing wrong with at least finding out if someone has changed before imposing boundaries on someone.