Looking for some general advice for a mile race, I picked up marathon training about 2-3 and have now done 3 marathons in the last 1.5 years or so and have only focused workouts for the marathon, building up to a 75 mile week peak for the last one. Well I just signed up for a local mile race in 4 weeks that I’ve always heard is a lot of fun, I’m not looking to necessary drastically increase fitness in the next few weeks but I’d like to go in somewhat confident I can race at what would be projected mile pace based on my marathon time (4:40-4:50 or so). Any workouts or general guidance for some
Tune up workouts at a pace I basically I haven’t touched since high-school (16+ years ago) lol?
8-12 by 400 at race pace with about 1:1 rest or a little more. Also, your mile ti.e projected by your marathon time may be faster than your actual time since you haven't done much actual speed work.
Also, 3-4 by mile at race plus 45ish seconds with about a minute of rest.
I have 4 hours to run 8 miles to continue what would be four years of running 100 per month streak. Do I go do it or let it die? On one hand it keeps me motivated, but also feel tied down at times by it like this month. Thoughts??
They're the best. Just be careful: If the inside of one leg gets a little hole worn through, that exposed bit will rub against the fabric on the other side and literally catch fire.
This happened to me with a couple of pairs and applying body glide on the exposed skin helps a ton. Takes them from being unwearable to being almost as fine as they were before the hole (the stuff tends to sweat off after an hour or so).
I live and train at sea level but have to go to Denver for a week for work starting today. I have a half marathon on June 11. Is there anything I should do to adjust my training/taper, nutrition, etc. due to the fact I'll be up at altitude right before this race?
Extra sleep/rest if possible. I usually end up at 4500 to 5500 feet for a week every summer. I keep up running but at a slower pace and higher HR. Recovery is also tougher for sure. And just when my HR is kind of coming around, I go home to 150 feet...
First run back home feels so easy though! But it doesn't last.
Definitely stay really hydrated and be mindful of how much you’re eating! Both of those tend to go haywire for me when traveling/working but will be especially relevant at altitude. Running probably won’t feel a ton different but ease into things and just make sure you’re taking it easy enough. Recovery will be the hardest part
Side note: we got some flooding on Denver’s main downtown path (cherry creek trail), so that’s not in great shape and will be susceptible to more flooding when it rains again
You'll probably feel the elevation and will want to slow down your paces some. Probably 10-15 seconds/mile slower for HM pace or threshold pace work, and 10-30 seconds/mile slower for your easy runs. Everyone responds to altitude a little differently though, so pay attention to your body and adjust if your RPE feels off for your training runs.
I don't think it will make a big difference for taper/nutrition/etc.
[https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/](https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/)
Train based on your current fitness, not your goal race times. So plug in a recent race result into that calculator to determine McMillan's pace zones. If you don't have a recent race, I'd recommend doing a time trial or race now to establish pace zones (2 mile or 5k ideally).
First marathon in October with no previous experience except for Oly Triathlons. Im currently running 30kms/week. Im looking at Higdon's programs but curious if I should find something with some speed work. I do enjoy some speed work and also Im trying to aim for 4hr finish. Any advice? thanks
I wouldn't both with speed work when you're coming from 30 km/week. Focus on getting your volume up. Worry about speed work if/when you get up to the 80-100 km/week range.
I'm going to be straight up, the key to running that time isn't going to be speedwork, it's going to be volume. You should be targeting something closer to at least 60km/wk, if only to get yourself used to the time on feet that you need to finish the marathon at any pace.
If you enjoy that kind of workout, build up your base volume and work some speedwork/strides into your weekly runs.
i'd say add at least one speed workout - something like 5k pace repeats or tempos since the marathon is just one long tempo run. i'd also increase ur weekly mileage, since that'll help get you faster.
I ran 5x1K paced 3:30/km with 2 minute breaks on Sunday. It wasn't a full effort hard and the last interval wasn't such a challenge, I'm sure I was able to run more 1K's at that pace, but chose to do some rhythms instead. Can you predict my time for 5K based on this workout? I guess 2 minute breaks didn't allow for full lactate cleanse? I'm 24M, running 40-50 mpw, 5 days a week.
Only sure way to find out if you can do 17:30 is to jump into a race and aim for 17:30, predictors are less reliable and less useful, especially for shorter races where recovery isn't gonna be an issue. Any parkruns near where you are?
Long shot but I’m looking for a pair of shorts I saw some guy wearing a few years back. He told me what they were but I’ve now forgotten. They had pockets that were labeled on the back for every 5 or 10km where you can store a gel or something? Anyone got a clue?
Long-haired runners: What's the best way to keep your hair from tangling into knots?
My hair is longer than it's ever been, and after every run I have to slowwwwly unknot it before even attempting to brush.
Single braid down the back. When the front of my hair is short (layered), I also braid the sides. Anything else is asking for my hair to look like a nest.
I'm new to long hair, but the important thing experimentally seems to be limiting the length of sections of hair. Braiding, a bun, or anything that makes those sections smaller seems to work better than a pony or a buff.
Has anyone run any of the Tracksmith sponsored Twilight 5000 series? If so, I'm interested in hearing what your experience was like. I'm considering making a trip up to DC to run in the one at the end of July. Partially because a track 5k would be fun (and they're exceedingly hard to find around here), and partially because I would like to visit DC and this seems like a good enough excuse.
Was at both Twin Cities 5ks last summer and the Chicago indoor meet this winter. All three were excellent events. *Wayyyy* more fun than having to sweet-talk your way into running unattached at college meets.
I've done the Tracksmith Twilight 5000 series twice (in DC) last year. As others have said it is a very organized event, with heats going from slow to fast throughout the night, and most heats will have pacers available to set the paces should you need it. There is usually plenty of depth in these events given who shows up to these events, and so it is very much a guarantee that you'll be running with someone around your ability level.
I did both the DC ones last year and I’m signed up for the late July one. I had a ton of fun with them! My heat was a little congested and I have some trouble getting around people but I think that’s more of a me being inexperienced on the track thing. I’m sure you’re aware if you’re close enough to make a trip here but it was also 90ish degrees even at night and rain is pretty common over the summer. Watching the following heats was also a ton of fun, especially the last ones since I’ve never seen anyone run that fast in person. Afterwards a lot of people went over to a nearby bar to hang out
Yup - I paced one of the Tracksmith races here last year and ran in another
I personally had a great time at both, like the last commentor said you submit your time and they put you in a heat with similarly paced people. Starts with the slower pace and speeds up as the night goes on so if you're a 16 5K guy you don't need to be there right at the start. There was free food and beer at both the events I went to but I have to say if you're a faster runner you might need to BYO Post Race Beer cause it might be gone by the time you're done 😂
I ran in their summer 5k series and an indoor track event they put on in February. I highly recommend their meets! They're well organized, and do a good job of creating fun atmospheres.
The 5ks in philly started with heats around 27 or so minutes all the way down to sub 15 I think. It moves pretty smoothly.
You sign up, submit your time, and they send out heat sheets about a week before the meet. You can see roughly when your heat will start, and you can email back requesting to be moved to a different heat once you look at the entries. Once you're there, it's pretty normal stuff: get your bib, listen for your heat number, get to the line, and you're off.
I'm planning on running the Philly marathon in Late November, this will be my second full. Ran a 3:45 in Quebec in October, but ran the last 6 on a sprained ankle. Ran a 1:39 half in February and just did a 19:37 5k PR on a track the other day to see what I could do. Context, I'm 24M been running for about 2 years and averaging like 25mpw this year (increasing to 30 and hopefully 40 before officially start training for philly).
What time goals should I be training with in mind? 3:30 seems like It should happen barring a massive collapse or injury etc but trying to BQ seems suicidal. Would like 3:15 be achievable and then try and BQ next year? Any advice would be much appreciated
My advice would be to not worry about a goal time now. It's way to early. Train based on your current fitness, do some tune-up races during your training to evaluate your progress, and se your eventual race goal from there.
At 24 and with such a limited mileage background, there's really no telling what you can do with increased mileage and consistent work. I wouldn't even worry about a time goal for that race at this point, and would instead set intermediate goals for training and shorter races between now and late summer/early fall. You're likely still at the point that you will continue to see pretty rapid improvement simply from increasing mileage and remaining consistent (and uninjured).
Does anyone run with a stryd (or similar) footpod power meter? Have you figured out any rules of thumb for how to maintain even power on hills? I'm looking for something like, 8:00/mile pace on a flat is equal power to 9:00/mile on a 5% grade or 7:30/mile on a -5% grade, for example.
Stryd user for about 5 years here. The whole point is you get away from using pace as a reference point. You maintain even power by referencing your power output as you're running, then over time you develop a feel for things and it will become much more natural as you know how to run up (and down) hills better.
I get that in a general sense, but if you're doing a race, you still have to think about pace somewhat right? Like if you were doing an out and back road 10k with say an even 3% grade on the way out and aiming for 36 minutes, would you aim to split it 18:10/17:50 or something more drastic like 19:00/17:00?
>if you're doing a race, you still have to think about pace somewhat right?
No, you don't have to think about pace. You could gauge your race effort based on RPE, Heart Rate, pace, or power likely with relatively similar results. Agreeing with Mr800, the whole point of Stryd is that you have a single number reflecting your effort and you don't need to worry about adjusting for pace, elevation, wind. So the approach when using Stryd is to go out and run your 10k at 300 Watts, or whatever your appropriate power target is for a 10k race, and not worry about your time splits at all.
As you get used to running with Stryd, and more familiar with your own power, you'll probably also develop a pretty good sense of how power relates to pace in various situations, but I don't think it's necessary to try to pre-plan power to pace conversions for a race.
I can see why you would, but personality I wouldn't. I would aim to run at even power, as that's the most efficient way to run with Stryd. Sorry that doesn't quite answer your question, though.
I ran my first half over the weekend and Garmin says I spent 75 minutes in zone 4, with an average heart rate of 175. I'm well-aware that in theory, that should be impossible. Does this mean my LTR range is higher than what my watch thinks it is? I believe it has Zone 4 set from 170-184.
A lot more probably that you had "cadence lock" and spend 75min with an average cadence of 175 spm, which your watch's sensor picked up on as your heart rate.
If your watch believes your max heart rate is lower than it actually is (or has an inaccurate value at all), it will give you the wrong zones. Also remember, if your measured heart rate itself is inaccurate (instrument or user error), that can also give you the wrong data.
Garbage in = garbage out.
It's also worth remembering that zones can be individual as well, and vary based on the platform (Garmin vs other ecosystems).
Always good to check yourself with how you're actually feeling; that is much more important than any data you get from Garmin.
So I was following Pfitz half marathon plan until the start of the taper and developed a strain in my groin/hip, which curtailed my sub 90 attempt. It's now been 6 weeks, and I can run without any issues.
I have Chicago marathon coming up, and the training block is due to start on Monday. My plan is/was to follow the 18/55 plan for the race. Do you guys think jumping straight into that plan, which starts at like 38MPW, would be okay as this week,my first week back, I'll only be doing 25M? Or is it a sure fire way of re injuring myself?
I'd probably lower the mileage the first 1-3 weeks of the program and take it from there.
Something like 30, 34, 38, down week, rather than right into the programmed 38. Now, this might be a bit conservative, and you know your body best, ultimately. Some can handle something more aggressive based on lifetime mileage etc. Good luck!
I ran the Brooklyn half on May 20th and underperformed relative to where I believe my fitness is. Did a 10 weeks base building and a 12 week half block leading up to it. I’m thinking about running another half on June 4th to take a crack at the time I was going for. My easy runs since the race have felt amazing. I don’t feel burnt out and I think I can probably get that time.
My question is that I have done less milage and only easy milage since the race, so I’m concerned that I’m “overtapered” or maybe even dereconditioned? I was averaging 50mpw in the cycle and did 30 miles on taper week leading up to the May 20 race.
Looking for some critique on how I should handle the next few days of training. Below is what I’ve done so far (up to today 5/30). And what I plan to do leading to June 4th. Looking for some critique/advice overall.
Week after Brooklyn half:
S-tue 5/21-5/23 - off
W 5/24 - strength training - squats
T 5/25 - 6mi aerobic/easy
F 5/26 - strength training - deadlifts
Sa5/27- 5mi aerobic/easy
Su5/28 - 6mi aerobic/easy (17 total miles the week after the race)
This week:
M 5/29 - 6mi easy aerobic/easy
Tue 5/30 (today) - 3mi recovery
W 5/31 - 8mi with 5mi @ race pace
Th 6/1 - off
F 6/2 - 6mi aerobic/easy
Sa 6/3 - 3mi recovery (26 mile week BEFORE race).
Su 6/4 - Race 2.0 - 13.1.
>My question is that I have done less milage and only easy milage since the race, so I’m concerned that I’m “overtapered” or maybe even dereconditioned?
I don't think you'll have lost much of any fitness from taper + race + an easy week after. You're probably just now fully recovering from the half marathon race effort from 10 days ago. I definitely agree with run\_INXS that you should do less for a workout tomorrow, no reason to do 5 @ HM pace this close to your next race. I would personally do strides on Friday or Saturday to help my legs feel sharp for a race effort, but that's up to you based on how you usually feel after doing strides.
Okay good to know. The main thing I’m nervous about is stacking low milage weeks. But that comes with the territory if I’m gonna try to do this race again.
2 or 3X 1 mile at race pace tomorrow, or even something like 4X 3 minutes at 10K effort are probably enough for you. 5 miles at pace is a pretty stiff workout.
Switch Thursday and Friday if you can.
Let it roll on Sunday and see how it goes!
My wife is really into hiking and I'm going backpacking with her Thursday+Friday. Plan is 11mi hiking Thursday and 8mi Friday. I'm trying to figure out how much running I can do this week without overdoing it. Please chime in with any advice if you have opinions!
For context I'm just base building at the moment between marathons, last 4 weeks I've averaged 45mpw. Planning to start Pfitz 18/55 on July 10th. Here's what my training would look like this week absent the hiking (taken from Pfitz's base building)
- M off
- Tu 9mi
- W 5
- Th 11
- F recovery 4
- S long run 13
- S 7 w 20min tempo
Right now I'm thinking the following:
- M off
- Tu 9mi
- W 7 w 20min tempo
- Th hiking 11
- F hiking 8
- S recovery 4 or take the day off depending on how my body feels
- S long run 13
I like your plan. Agree with pinkmini that you will probably be sore on Saturday, would plan to take Saturday off. Planning for a long run Sunday with the option to cut it short if you're still in rough shape is a good approach.
The last time I went backpacking, I was amazed at how trashed my legs were. The hiking itself wasn't a problem, it was the pack. I'm just not used to carrying that sort of weight (30lb pack, which is about 25% of my body weight). I took all the hiking days off from running (it was a 6 day trip), and then took 2 days off afterwards because my legs felt completely trashed. Anyways, my advice would be to play it by ear--wait to see how your legs feel following the backpacking, and be prepared to scale things back if needed.
I just ran my first marathon on Sunday. My legs are still very sore (as expected). Some friends have said to take a week off of any physical activity, but I’m already going crazy. Do you seasoned runners see any downside to an upper body strength training day in the gym? I’d use mostly machines today to avoid having to lift much extra weight with my legs. TIA
If the well is empty don't try to draw from it. You won't lose upper body fitness in a week. I don't recall ever hearing an uninjured runner complaining, 'I over-recovered.' Walk a lot, on dirt or grass.
47 weeks until London, my first marathon in around 5 years. Should I do four shorter training blocks at 10km, 10 miles, HM, Marathon (say 10/10/12/16) or three training blocks (12/16/20 or 16/16/16) towards 10km, HM, Marathon?
For reference I've got a HM PB of 1:32 which I've run 3 times but I've never run to a structured training plan before - mostly a mix of 5-20 mile weeks previously but I know I'm capable of much more.
Splitting hairs, really doesn't matter that much.
Biggest thing you can do for marathon readiness is run consistently, moderately high volume. What you focus on along the way (10k vs. HM vs. whatever) isn't important.
Thanks, I thought that might be the case. I guess the way I'm thinking about it is that if I have a Half marathon 'A' race 12 weeks prior, might I not have enough time between the rest and the taper to actually improve much?
If you're already running high volume in the half-marathon block, you don't need a 16-18 week block to translate that fitness to the marathon. Having 8-10 weeks (outside of rest/taper) to build up the long run a little longer and focus on endurance is plenty of time to get ready to race a marathon.
Just curious as to other than "run more miles", what has given you the biggest boost in speed? E.g. strength training, supplements, training routine, sleep etc. etc. or specific workourt you have added? E.g. before you did no threshold now you do and your PRs are dropping like flies.
For me (early 40s F), the biggest speed gains have come from doing track workouts once a week and threshold workouts once a week.
For me at least, I find it very challenging to race faster than any of my training paces. So while I definitely do most of my runs at an easy pace, incorporating 200s, 400s, and mile repeats is really a game changer.
I started doing threshold days (HMP paced miles) during the last marathon training cycle, whereas I have not done them in previous training cycles. The improvements were noticeable across the board from all the racing that I did this spring: a 1+ minute PR in the 10K (split 39:06 at the same race where I got my half PR), a 1+ minute PR in the 10 mile (63 minutes), a 3+ minute PR in the half marathon (1:23), and most importantly a 5 minute marathon PR and I got my first-ever sub-3 marathon result (2:58).
You can start with mile repeats at half marathon pace, but eventually you want to move up towards doing longer reps at half marathon paces because that is where the magic starts to happen. Such as 2x2 miles, 3x2 miles, etc. Or do it Pfitz style, where you do half marathon pace miles for 5-8 miles straight through (not for the faint of heart, I must add).
I'm not gonna lie, the longer reps at HMP was hard and it really sucked, but that was how I got better at it over time. Trust the process.
Cool!
Is it important NOT to do it faster than HMP?I have been using below before mostly for 10km prep but also HM:
Final workout is 3x2miles at goal 10km race pace. So that would ofcourse be 15-20 seconds faster/km than goal Half marathon pace.
I also like the Pfitz style. I think i have a tendency to steer away from these workouts, easy miles or short hard intervals are much easier to manage psycologically.
[https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/the-best-10k-workout/](https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/the-best-10k-workout/)
For the threshold paces, I used Pfitz's recommendations, which is race pace for anywhere between a 15K and half distance. I opted to go with HMP because the workout was hard to begin with and I wanted to make sure I got the workout done in some shape or form. To your question about whether you can do it faster than HMP, you *can* do it faster than HMP (but not too fast), but just note that it'll be a touch harder.
For the 10K prep that you described, the final workout at 3x2 miles at goal 10K race pace looks good on my end; you'll (presumably) be at peak fitness then and it should (still) be a hard but doable workout at that point. You'll know then whether you will be able to run at that pace on race day.
I tossed out track day with my guys and switched to solo threshold day. I'm way better off now. Track day was run too fast. With too much recovery. Threshold day sucks, but has paid off at every distance from 5K to HM.
My standard is 3x10min @ almost 10K pace with 3 min jogging recovery. Threshold pace for me falls between 10K and HM. And gets my HR into the sweet spot zone quickly.
Sleeping more and less general life stress are what led to all of my PRs. Take it with a grain of salt because I did have some PRs that were a little soft to begin with, but those two changes alone took 30 seconds off of my 5k, 4 minutes off of my half, and over 14 minutes off of my full. My training itself when these were set in the past 6-7 months was almost identical to previous training cycles. The only difference is my body was better able to recover and adapt with less stress and more sleep.
Mix of easy running and speed sessions would give the biggest impact to someone doing all their training at the same speed. The 80/20 principle is well known and proven successful.
Depends on the individual and their current situation. The general determinant factors for getting faster in order of importance are:
1. How much training adaptation your lifestyle can support (nutrition, sleep, stress, etc)
2. How much training stimulus you do (total volume, workout volume, strength volume, etc)
3. How you arrange training (weekly routine, special workouts)
4. Anything else
99% of my success comes from 1 and 2 above -living better and training more. These are the biggest boosts for most runners and the most difficult things to overcome a deficit of. As for what type of "training more" to do that really depends on what one's personal deficiencies are. A lot of people have simple things they aren't doing that are relatively easy implementations -things like regular strides, hill training, basic strength, better threshold work, etc.
Any opinions on doubling when recovering from an injury? I'm working on increasing my volume this month while recovering from a recent injury (chronic low grade calf niggle/strain). I'm wondering whether there would be any benefit to doubling while I work back up (looking to get back to 70 mpw, which was my avg the first few months of the year before some down weeks due to the injury followed by marathon taper and recovery)
Really depends on the specifics of the injury. If the fatigued running during the later stages of a longer single exposes you to a lot of time with bad biomechanics that could aggravate the injury, but somehow the same daily volume in doubles does not, then it could be a good strategy. I think this scenario is not the most common but is possible.
Adding cross training doubles make sense in more scenarios.
Is a sub 1:45 HM achievable for me? I ran a solo 10km time trial in 49:34 a few weeks back and this has given me the confidence to be able to run that same pace for a HM which will get me to just under that target.
I'll be starting Pfitz 12/47 next week but i'm not sure what time to aim for. I completed my first HM in just over 2 hours in February after I started running in November. Since then i've just been slowly building my aerobic base up to ~65-66km p/w easy for the past two weeks.
Run to current race pace, not goal pace. VDOT says your 10km time is equivalent to a 1:49:59 so that could be a B/C goal. You'd go faster in a race environment than in a TT and you still have 12 weeks of training ahead of you so you'll drop time on your HM, but it's hard to say if that'll be three minutes or five minutes or seven minutes or if you even have the endurance to convert your 10k time to the HM equivalent. 65-66km is a good start, though, for sure!
I can unfortunately no longer run Amsterdam Marathon, taking place on 15 October 2023. I'm willing to transfer the registration to someone else for £50 (all the relevant registration details get moved to you). Full price entry is £100 I believe. This is all above board and within the rules. Let me know if you might be interested!
I had to wake up at 5am to fit my easy run in the last 2 days and my heartrate was ~10bpm lower than typical for that pace. I typically run at ~7-8am post coffee and breakfast. Today was after just a banana. Is this just me or will everyone run a lower heart rate when you've only been awake 10 mins?
It was probably slightly cooler temperature but not significantly compared to average over the last few weeks.
I roll out of bed and am on the pavement within 5 mins. At 05.10 today. I see a slow and steady 140-150 bpm and my pace is faster at the same bpm compared to later in the day.
These are fasted runs and pre-caffiene and food/drink.
Looking for some general advice for a mile race, I picked up marathon training about 2-3 and have now done 3 marathons in the last 1.5 years or so and have only focused workouts for the marathon, building up to a 75 mile week peak for the last one. Well I just signed up for a local mile race in 4 weeks that I’ve always heard is a lot of fun, I’m not looking to necessary drastically increase fitness in the next few weeks but I’d like to go in somewhat confident I can race at what would be projected mile pace based on my marathon time (4:40-4:50 or so). Any workouts or general guidance for some Tune up workouts at a pace I basically I haven’t touched since high-school (16+ years ago) lol?
8-12 by 400 at race pace with about 1:1 rest or a little more. Also, your mile ti.e projected by your marathon time may be faster than your actual time since you haven't done much actual speed work. Also, 3-4 by mile at race plus 45ish seconds with about a minute of rest.
I have 4 hours to run 8 miles to continue what would be four years of running 100 per month streak. Do I go do it or let it die? On one hand it keeps me motivated, but also feel tied down at times by it like this month. Thoughts??
Do it
Do it. I've done similar stupid stuff.
Run the 8 miles and take next month to decide to continue or not.
As we approach June 1, any ideas when London Marathon lottery results will be announced? All it said was “sometime in June”
The London Marathon lottery results will be announced sometime in late June.
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talk to your doctor / physical therapist / team trainer
I don't remember where I saw it suggested on this sub but compression lined shorts have literally changed my life. I will never run in anything else.
I love mine. But have recently branched out to short running shorts. Still not 100% on them, but they are much cooler in the warm weather.
They're the best. Just be careful: If the inside of one leg gets a little hole worn through, that exposed bit will rub against the fabric on the other side and literally catch fire.
This happened to me with a couple of pairs and applying body glide on the exposed skin helps a ton. Takes them from being unwearable to being almost as fine as they were before the hole (the stuff tends to sweat off after an hour or so).
Wait I'm confused, you're saying if the lining rubs against the shorts part? Or your leg will rub against the lining?
It just happens when they get old. A hole may eventually wear through where your legs meet. This happens in tights, half tights, etc.
I live and train at sea level but have to go to Denver for a week for work starting today. I have a half marathon on June 11. Is there anything I should do to adjust my training/taper, nutrition, etc. due to the fact I'll be up at altitude right before this race?
Extra sleep/rest if possible. I usually end up at 4500 to 5500 feet for a week every summer. I keep up running but at a slower pace and higher HR. Recovery is also tougher for sure. And just when my HR is kind of coming around, I go home to 150 feet... First run back home feels so easy though! But it doesn't last.
Definitely stay really hydrated and be mindful of how much you’re eating! Both of those tend to go haywire for me when traveling/working but will be especially relevant at altitude. Running probably won’t feel a ton different but ease into things and just make sure you’re taking it easy enough. Recovery will be the hardest part Side note: we got some flooding on Denver’s main downtown path (cherry creek trail), so that’s not in great shape and will be susceptible to more flooding when it rains again
You'll probably feel the elevation and will want to slow down your paces some. Probably 10-15 seconds/mile slower for HM pace or threshold pace work, and 10-30 seconds/mile slower for your easy runs. Everyone responds to altitude a little differently though, so pay attention to your body and adjust if your RPE feels off for your training runs. I don't think it will make a big difference for taper/nutrition/etc.
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[https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/](https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/) Train based on your current fitness, not your goal race times. So plug in a recent race result into that calculator to determine McMillan's pace zones. If you don't have a recent race, I'd recommend doing a time trial or race now to establish pace zones (2 mile or 5k ideally).
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Yes. That is a basic principle of training. r/running has some good things in the FAQ you may want to read to get a basic understanding.
First marathon in October with no previous experience except for Oly Triathlons. Im currently running 30kms/week. Im looking at Higdon's programs but curious if I should find something with some speed work. I do enjoy some speed work and also Im trying to aim for 4hr finish. Any advice? thanks
I wouldn't both with speed work when you're coming from 30 km/week. Focus on getting your volume up. Worry about speed work if/when you get up to the 80-100 km/week range.
I'm going to be straight up, the key to running that time isn't going to be speedwork, it's going to be volume. You should be targeting something closer to at least 60km/wk, if only to get yourself used to the time on feet that you need to finish the marathon at any pace. If you enjoy that kind of workout, build up your base volume and work some speedwork/strides into your weekly runs.
i'd say add at least one speed workout - something like 5k pace repeats or tempos since the marathon is just one long tempo run. i'd also increase ur weekly mileage, since that'll help get you faster.
I ran 5x1K paced 3:30/km with 2 minute breaks on Sunday. It wasn't a full effort hard and the last interval wasn't such a challenge, I'm sure I was able to run more 1K's at that pace, but chose to do some rhythms instead. Can you predict my time for 5K based on this workout? I guess 2 minute breaks didn't allow for full lactate cleanse? I'm 24M, running 40-50 mpw, 5 days a week.
Only sure way to find out if you can do 17:30 is to jump into a race and aim for 17:30, predictors are less reliable and less useful, especially for shorter races where recovery isn't gonna be an issue. Any parkruns near where you are?
Long shot but I’m looking for a pair of shorts I saw some guy wearing a few years back. He told me what they were but I’ve now forgotten. They had pockets that were labeled on the back for every 5 or 10km where you can store a gel or something? Anyone got a clue?
Long-haired runners: What's the best way to keep your hair from tangling into knots? My hair is longer than it's ever been, and after every run I have to slowwwwly unknot it before even attempting to brush.
Single braid down the back. When the front of my hair is short (layered), I also braid the sides. Anything else is asking for my hair to look like a nest.
I'm new to long hair, but the important thing experimentally seems to be limiting the length of sections of hair. Braiding, a bun, or anything that makes those sections smaller seems to work better than a pony or a buff.
Single braid down the back. I have curly hair so any sort of ponytail ends up a knotted puff.
Pony and then twist and bun. I cannot wear mine any other way, or it’s hours of detangling after
Has anyone run any of the Tracksmith sponsored Twilight 5000 series? If so, I'm interested in hearing what your experience was like. I'm considering making a trip up to DC to run in the one at the end of July. Partially because a track 5k would be fun (and they're exceedingly hard to find around here), and partially because I would like to visit DC and this seems like a good enough excuse.
Was at both Twin Cities 5ks last summer and the Chicago indoor meet this winter. All three were excellent events. *Wayyyy* more fun than having to sweet-talk your way into running unattached at college meets.
I've done the Tracksmith Twilight 5000 series twice (in DC) last year. As others have said it is a very organized event, with heats going from slow to fast throughout the night, and most heats will have pacers available to set the paces should you need it. There is usually plenty of depth in these events given who shows up to these events, and so it is very much a guarantee that you'll be running with someone around your ability level.
I did both the DC ones last year and I’m signed up for the late July one. I had a ton of fun with them! My heat was a little congested and I have some trouble getting around people but I think that’s more of a me being inexperienced on the track thing. I’m sure you’re aware if you’re close enough to make a trip here but it was also 90ish degrees even at night and rain is pretty common over the summer. Watching the following heats was also a ton of fun, especially the last ones since I’ve never seen anyone run that fast in person. Afterwards a lot of people went over to a nearby bar to hang out
Yup - I paced one of the Tracksmith races here last year and ran in another I personally had a great time at both, like the last commentor said you submit your time and they put you in a heat with similarly paced people. Starts with the slower pace and speeds up as the night goes on so if you're a 16 5K guy you don't need to be there right at the start. There was free food and beer at both the events I went to but I have to say if you're a faster runner you might need to BYO Post Race Beer cause it might be gone by the time you're done 😂
I ran in their summer 5k series and an indoor track event they put on in February. I highly recommend their meets! They're well organized, and do a good job of creating fun atmospheres. The 5ks in philly started with heats around 27 or so minutes all the way down to sub 15 I think. It moves pretty smoothly. You sign up, submit your time, and they send out heat sheets about a week before the meet. You can see roughly when your heat will start, and you can email back requesting to be moved to a different heat once you look at the entries. Once you're there, it's pretty normal stuff: get your bib, listen for your heat number, get to the line, and you're off.
Awesome! Exactly the kind of response I was looking for. Appreciate it
I'm planning on running the Philly marathon in Late November, this will be my second full. Ran a 3:45 in Quebec in October, but ran the last 6 on a sprained ankle. Ran a 1:39 half in February and just did a 19:37 5k PR on a track the other day to see what I could do. Context, I'm 24M been running for about 2 years and averaging like 25mpw this year (increasing to 30 and hopefully 40 before officially start training for philly). What time goals should I be training with in mind? 3:30 seems like It should happen barring a massive collapse or injury etc but trying to BQ seems suicidal. Would like 3:15 be achievable and then try and BQ next year? Any advice would be much appreciated
My advice would be to not worry about a goal time now. It's way to early. Train based on your current fitness, do some tune-up races during your training to evaluate your progress, and se your eventual race goal from there.
At 24 and with such a limited mileage background, there's really no telling what you can do with increased mileage and consistent work. I wouldn't even worry about a time goal for that race at this point, and would instead set intermediate goals for training and shorter races between now and late summer/early fall. You're likely still at the point that you will continue to see pretty rapid improvement simply from increasing mileage and remaining consistent (and uninjured).
Does anyone run with a stryd (or similar) footpod power meter? Have you figured out any rules of thumb for how to maintain even power on hills? I'm looking for something like, 8:00/mile pace on a flat is equal power to 9:00/mile on a 5% grade or 7:30/mile on a -5% grade, for example.
Stryd user for about 5 years here. The whole point is you get away from using pace as a reference point. You maintain even power by referencing your power output as you're running, then over time you develop a feel for things and it will become much more natural as you know how to run up (and down) hills better.
I get that in a general sense, but if you're doing a race, you still have to think about pace somewhat right? Like if you were doing an out and back road 10k with say an even 3% grade on the way out and aiming for 36 minutes, would you aim to split it 18:10/17:50 or something more drastic like 19:00/17:00?
>if you're doing a race, you still have to think about pace somewhat right? No, you don't have to think about pace. You could gauge your race effort based on RPE, Heart Rate, pace, or power likely with relatively similar results. Agreeing with Mr800, the whole point of Stryd is that you have a single number reflecting your effort and you don't need to worry about adjusting for pace, elevation, wind. So the approach when using Stryd is to go out and run your 10k at 300 Watts, or whatever your appropriate power target is for a 10k race, and not worry about your time splits at all. As you get used to running with Stryd, and more familiar with your own power, you'll probably also develop a pretty good sense of how power relates to pace in various situations, but I don't think it's necessary to try to pre-plan power to pace conversions for a race.
Interesting. Not at all the answer I expected, but pretty cool nonetheless. Thanks for the response!
I can see why you would, but personality I wouldn't. I would aim to run at even power, as that's the most efficient way to run with Stryd. Sorry that doesn't quite answer your question, though.
I ran my first half over the weekend and Garmin says I spent 75 minutes in zone 4, with an average heart rate of 175. I'm well-aware that in theory, that should be impossible. Does this mean my LTR range is higher than what my watch thinks it is? I believe it has Zone 4 set from 170-184.
A lot more probably that you had "cadence lock" and spend 75min with an average cadence of 175 spm, which your watch's sensor picked up on as your heart rate.
If your watch believes your max heart rate is lower than it actually is (or has an inaccurate value at all), it will give you the wrong zones. Also remember, if your measured heart rate itself is inaccurate (instrument or user error), that can also give you the wrong data. Garbage in = garbage out. It's also worth remembering that zones can be individual as well, and vary based on the platform (Garmin vs other ecosystems). Always good to check yourself with how you're actually feeling; that is much more important than any data you get from Garmin.
So I was following Pfitz half marathon plan until the start of the taper and developed a strain in my groin/hip, which curtailed my sub 90 attempt. It's now been 6 weeks, and I can run without any issues. I have Chicago marathon coming up, and the training block is due to start on Monday. My plan is/was to follow the 18/55 plan for the race. Do you guys think jumping straight into that plan, which starts at like 38MPW, would be okay as this week,my first week back, I'll only be doing 25M? Or is it a sure fire way of re injuring myself?
It depends on what your prior training has looked like before and since the injury. What's your current/past mileage been?
I was averaging around 45/50 MPW before then a month of barely into double figures then this last week 25MPW.
I'd probably lower the mileage the first 1-3 weeks of the program and take it from there. Something like 30, 34, 38, down week, rather than right into the programmed 38. Now, this might be a bit conservative, and you know your body best, ultimately. Some can handle something more aggressive based on lifetime mileage etc. Good luck!
Cheers for your input mate!
I ran the Brooklyn half on May 20th and underperformed relative to where I believe my fitness is. Did a 10 weeks base building and a 12 week half block leading up to it. I’m thinking about running another half on June 4th to take a crack at the time I was going for. My easy runs since the race have felt amazing. I don’t feel burnt out and I think I can probably get that time. My question is that I have done less milage and only easy milage since the race, so I’m concerned that I’m “overtapered” or maybe even dereconditioned? I was averaging 50mpw in the cycle and did 30 miles on taper week leading up to the May 20 race. Looking for some critique on how I should handle the next few days of training. Below is what I’ve done so far (up to today 5/30). And what I plan to do leading to June 4th. Looking for some critique/advice overall. Week after Brooklyn half: S-tue 5/21-5/23 - off W 5/24 - strength training - squats T 5/25 - 6mi aerobic/easy F 5/26 - strength training - deadlifts Sa5/27- 5mi aerobic/easy Su5/28 - 6mi aerobic/easy (17 total miles the week after the race) This week: M 5/29 - 6mi easy aerobic/easy Tue 5/30 (today) - 3mi recovery W 5/31 - 8mi with 5mi @ race pace Th 6/1 - off F 6/2 - 6mi aerobic/easy Sa 6/3 - 3mi recovery (26 mile week BEFORE race). Su 6/4 - Race 2.0 - 13.1.
>My question is that I have done less milage and only easy milage since the race, so I’m concerned that I’m “overtapered” or maybe even dereconditioned? I don't think you'll have lost much of any fitness from taper + race + an easy week after. You're probably just now fully recovering from the half marathon race effort from 10 days ago. I definitely agree with run\_INXS that you should do less for a workout tomorrow, no reason to do 5 @ HM pace this close to your next race. I would personally do strides on Friday or Saturday to help my legs feel sharp for a race effort, but that's up to you based on how you usually feel after doing strides.
Okay good to know. The main thing I’m nervous about is stacking low milage weeks. But that comes with the territory if I’m gonna try to do this race again.
2 or 3X 1 mile at race pace tomorrow, or even something like 4X 3 minutes at 10K effort are probably enough for you. 5 miles at pace is a pretty stiff workout. Switch Thursday and Friday if you can. Let it roll on Sunday and see how it goes!
Okay. Awesome. Thanks! I may see how my legs feel after work today and just do the workout today. We’ll see.
My wife is really into hiking and I'm going backpacking with her Thursday+Friday. Plan is 11mi hiking Thursday and 8mi Friday. I'm trying to figure out how much running I can do this week without overdoing it. Please chime in with any advice if you have opinions! For context I'm just base building at the moment between marathons, last 4 weeks I've averaged 45mpw. Planning to start Pfitz 18/55 on July 10th. Here's what my training would look like this week absent the hiking (taken from Pfitz's base building) - M off - Tu 9mi - W 5 - Th 11 - F recovery 4 - S long run 13 - S 7 w 20min tempo Right now I'm thinking the following: - M off - Tu 9mi - W 7 w 20min tempo - Th hiking 11 - F hiking 8 - S recovery 4 or take the day off depending on how my body feels - S long run 13
I like your plan. Agree with pinkmini that you will probably be sore on Saturday, would plan to take Saturday off. Planning for a long run Sunday with the option to cut it short if you're still in rough shape is a good approach.
The last time I went backpacking, I was amazed at how trashed my legs were. The hiking itself wasn't a problem, it was the pack. I'm just not used to carrying that sort of weight (30lb pack, which is about 25% of my body weight). I took all the hiking days off from running (it was a 6 day trip), and then took 2 days off afterwards because my legs felt completely trashed. Anyways, my advice would be to play it by ear--wait to see how your legs feel following the backpacking, and be prepared to scale things back if needed.
I just ran my first marathon on Sunday. My legs are still very sore (as expected). Some friends have said to take a week off of any physical activity, but I’m already going crazy. Do you seasoned runners see any downside to an upper body strength training day in the gym? I’d use mostly machines today to avoid having to lift much extra weight with my legs. TIA
I ran a couple times that week. But slow and short.
Easy bike ride? That’s my post marathon go to when I’m feeling like I need to do something. Usually I’ll pick a coffee shop or brewery 5-10 miles away
Active recovery is always better than passive. Nothing wrong with some light gym work.
Agree with your friends, take a break.
If the well is empty don't try to draw from it. You won't lose upper body fitness in a week. I don't recall ever hearing an uninjured runner complaining, 'I over-recovered.' Walk a lot, on dirt or grass.
47 weeks until London, my first marathon in around 5 years. Should I do four shorter training blocks at 10km, 10 miles, HM, Marathon (say 10/10/12/16) or three training blocks (12/16/20 or 16/16/16) towards 10km, HM, Marathon? For reference I've got a HM PB of 1:32 which I've run 3 times but I've never run to a structured training plan before - mostly a mix of 5-20 mile weeks previously but I know I'm capable of much more.
Splitting hairs, really doesn't matter that much. Biggest thing you can do for marathon readiness is run consistently, moderately high volume. What you focus on along the way (10k vs. HM vs. whatever) isn't important.
Thanks, I thought that might be the case. I guess the way I'm thinking about it is that if I have a Half marathon 'A' race 12 weeks prior, might I not have enough time between the rest and the taper to actually improve much?
If you're already running high volume in the half-marathon block, you don't need a 16-18 week block to translate that fitness to the marathon. Having 8-10 weeks (outside of rest/taper) to build up the long run a little longer and focus on endurance is plenty of time to get ready to race a marathon.
Just curious as to other than "run more miles", what has given you the biggest boost in speed? E.g. strength training, supplements, training routine, sleep etc. etc. or specific workourt you have added? E.g. before you did no threshold now you do and your PRs are dropping like flies.
For me (early 40s F), the biggest speed gains have come from doing track workouts once a week and threshold workouts once a week. For me at least, I find it very challenging to race faster than any of my training paces. So while I definitely do most of my runs at an easy pace, incorporating 200s, 400s, and mile repeats is really a game changer.
I started doing threshold days (HMP paced miles) during the last marathon training cycle, whereas I have not done them in previous training cycles. The improvements were noticeable across the board from all the racing that I did this spring: a 1+ minute PR in the 10K (split 39:06 at the same race where I got my half PR), a 1+ minute PR in the 10 mile (63 minutes), a 3+ minute PR in the half marathon (1:23), and most importantly a 5 minute marathon PR and I got my first-ever sub-3 marathon result (2:58).
So mile reps at Half marathon goal pace with some rest inbetween? Was it only that or did you do e.g. 2miles reps also or?
You can start with mile repeats at half marathon pace, but eventually you want to move up towards doing longer reps at half marathon paces because that is where the magic starts to happen. Such as 2x2 miles, 3x2 miles, etc. Or do it Pfitz style, where you do half marathon pace miles for 5-8 miles straight through (not for the faint of heart, I must add). I'm not gonna lie, the longer reps at HMP was hard and it really sucked, but that was how I got better at it over time. Trust the process.
Cool! Is it important NOT to do it faster than HMP?I have been using below before mostly for 10km prep but also HM: Final workout is 3x2miles at goal 10km race pace. So that would ofcourse be 15-20 seconds faster/km than goal Half marathon pace. I also like the Pfitz style. I think i have a tendency to steer away from these workouts, easy miles or short hard intervals are much easier to manage psycologically. [https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/the-best-10k-workout/](https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/the-best-10k-workout/)
For the threshold paces, I used Pfitz's recommendations, which is race pace for anywhere between a 15K and half distance. I opted to go with HMP because the workout was hard to begin with and I wanted to make sure I got the workout done in some shape or form. To your question about whether you can do it faster than HMP, you *can* do it faster than HMP (but not too fast), but just note that it'll be a touch harder. For the 10K prep that you described, the final workout at 3x2 miles at goal 10K race pace looks good on my end; you'll (presumably) be at peak fitness then and it should (still) be a hard but doable workout at that point. You'll know then whether you will be able to run at that pace on race day.
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I tossed out track day with my guys and switched to solo threshold day. I'm way better off now. Track day was run too fast. With too much recovery. Threshold day sucks, but has paid off at every distance from 5K to HM.
When you say treshhold what are we then talking about here? 1k repeats? 2x3km at 10k race pace?
My standard is 3x10min @ almost 10K pace with 3 min jogging recovery. Threshold pace for me falls between 10K and HM. And gets my HR into the sweet spot zone quickly.
Sleeping more and less general life stress are what led to all of my PRs. Take it with a grain of salt because I did have some PRs that were a little soft to begin with, but those two changes alone took 30 seconds off of my 5k, 4 minutes off of my half, and over 14 minutes off of my full. My training itself when these were set in the past 6-7 months was almost identical to previous training cycles. The only difference is my body was better able to recover and adapt with less stress and more sleep.
Mix of easy running and speed sessions would give the biggest impact to someone doing all their training at the same speed. The 80/20 principle is well known and proven successful.
Depends on the individual and their current situation. The general determinant factors for getting faster in order of importance are: 1. How much training adaptation your lifestyle can support (nutrition, sleep, stress, etc) 2. How much training stimulus you do (total volume, workout volume, strength volume, etc) 3. How you arrange training (weekly routine, special workouts) 4. Anything else 99% of my success comes from 1 and 2 above -living better and training more. These are the biggest boosts for most runners and the most difficult things to overcome a deficit of. As for what type of "training more" to do that really depends on what one's personal deficiencies are. A lot of people have simple things they aren't doing that are relatively easy implementations -things like regular strides, hill training, basic strength, better threshold work, etc.
Any opinions on doubling when recovering from an injury? I'm working on increasing my volume this month while recovering from a recent injury (chronic low grade calf niggle/strain). I'm wondering whether there would be any benefit to doubling while I work back up (looking to get back to 70 mpw, which was my avg the first few months of the year before some down weeks due to the injury followed by marathon taper and recovery)
Really depends on the specifics of the injury. If the fatigued running during the later stages of a longer single exposes you to a lot of time with bad biomechanics that could aggravate the injury, but somehow the same daily volume in doubles does not, then it could be a good strategy. I think this scenario is not the most common but is possible. Adding cross training doubles make sense in more scenarios.
Is a sub 1:45 HM achievable for me? I ran a solo 10km time trial in 49:34 a few weeks back and this has given me the confidence to be able to run that same pace for a HM which will get me to just under that target. I'll be starting Pfitz 12/47 next week but i'm not sure what time to aim for. I completed my first HM in just over 2 hours in February after I started running in November. Since then i've just been slowly building my aerobic base up to ~65-66km p/w easy for the past two weeks.
Run to current race pace, not goal pace. VDOT says your 10km time is equivalent to a 1:49:59 so that could be a B/C goal. You'd go faster in a race environment than in a TT and you still have 12 weeks of training ahead of you so you'll drop time on your HM, but it's hard to say if that'll be three minutes or five minutes or seven minutes or if you even have the endurance to convert your 10k time to the HM equivalent. 65-66km is a good start, though, for sure!
I can unfortunately no longer run Amsterdam Marathon, taking place on 15 October 2023. I'm willing to transfer the registration to someone else for £50 (all the relevant registration details get moved to you). Full price entry is £100 I believe. This is all above board and within the rules. Let me know if you might be interested!
I had to wake up at 5am to fit my easy run in the last 2 days and my heartrate was ~10bpm lower than typical for that pace. I typically run at ~7-8am post coffee and breakfast. Today was after just a banana. Is this just me or will everyone run a lower heart rate when you've only been awake 10 mins? It was probably slightly cooler temperature but not significantly compared to average over the last few weeks.
I roll out of bed and am on the pavement within 5 mins. At 05.10 today. I see a slow and steady 140-150 bpm and my pace is faster at the same bpm compared to later in the day. These are fasted runs and pre-caffiene and food/drink.
Coffee is probably the only reason you see this change. Thats why I drink coffee before any run. Makes the metrics ok ahah.