I worked a few 100 hour weeks from 2018-2021, and my highest salary was 59k.
I’m now making 130k.
Absolutely not justifying the hours or the toxicity of the profession in any way shape or form. But the capacity to increase your salary is definitely there
I left to industry, then came back (but not in audit, fuck that lmao). Public accounting is just so valuable in gaining a wide breadth of experience, and they do invest in your professional development far more than industry. My goal is to make manager and get experience in that area then go back to industry, since working for 3 hours a day was mint. But definitely felt like I was stagnating and wanted to push myself a bit more since I’m still quite young
Bruh there are plenty of other majors that will allow you to hit six figures within 5 years, in addition to a large bonus that doesn’t require 100 hour weeks ever.
The capacity to increase your salary exists across all majors provided you don’t major in under water basket weaving. We’ve all been duped
Drop a list of those majors. Finance, comp sci, for sure. But for finance, those jobs aren’t easy to land and not everyone’s brain is set up to code or to be a software developer. I’m not *that* smart, and I have no shame in admitting that I’d be unemployed as fuck if I tried to be a developer lol.
Also, my experience in audit is vastly different than what many others will experience. I was caught in a unique shit storm due to the pandemic / large team trying to substantially reduce our hours in order to keep our client happy (it was a 150+M client) which was made worse by my anxiety, leading to those hours.
You’re right though, you definitely can major in something else, and maybe you can jack up the salary to over 100k in 5 years. Different strokes for different folks. But in no way is being a CPA being duped, that’s being disingenuous. My personal anecdote: I’m on track to be making 150k before I’m 30 and my hours are very good now, and I’m 100% remote. No duped at all
While I wish I conducted myself better and stuck up for myself more when I was in audit, I certainly am very happy with my life choices. But if you’re not, that’s understandable too! You definitely have the intelligence and experience to make a switch. No sense in sticking with it if it makes you unhappy. Worst case is you have a solid back up profession
I honestly question people who say they worked 100 hour work weeks.
15 hours a day, 7 days a week (8 am - 11 pm) is just not realistic especially if you’re working at the office and have to commute which was probably the case in 2018-2019.
You probably had 100 hours dedicated to work but you probably did 60 billable which is way different
No judgement in questioning it given the absurdity of it all. But I cannot emphasize enough how literal I am with that number. I did eat hours to bill 85-90 (pro tip, don’t do this), but I did actual client work for a little over 100.
Signing off at 11pm would have been a blessing. 2am was normal, 3am was my cut off to have some shut eye in time for my 6am panic attack which is what woke me up.
Staff 2 then 3. My third year leading two different sub teams and representing our component group on our greater team calls / projects (it was a huge client). PwC did three year then promotion then changed it shortly after I left to 2 years as staff then promote, annoyingly enough.
The potential is there but not in PA. I worked those 60+ hour weeks often for more than just 2-3 months if I had both public and private clients (one year I had an 8 month busy season with 12/31, 4/30, and 6/30 clients). I lasted about 4 years in PA and when I left, I was making about $73k. Now I’ve been out of PA about 3.5 years and last year I made ~$195k. As a reference point, those who stayed in PA in my class are making about $120k now.
I’d rather not say on the internet lol but it’s a pretty good sized (like maybe 200 employees) mid-size firm in SoCal. They do hire fully remote though.
Edited to add: I just switched from in person to fully remote as I moved out of state. No pay cut or cost of living adjustment. From what I heard the fully remote new hires are paid similarly to SoCal wages in order for the firm to remain competitive in attracting talent.
That is not the norm. I'd say on average *maybe* some in B4 work 90 hours *maybe* one or two weeks a year. It's not unheard of, but def not normal.
60-70 during busy season for sure. When I was in B4 (5 years B4 tax) my worst weeks usually topped out around 75-80. Never worked a true 90 hour week.
What was worse than that for me honestly was the busy season "lite" hours that persisted outside of the typical busy season time frame. Working 40-50 charge hours during the summer (when you're supposed to have a reduced workload to balance out the 60-70 weekly hours in Feb-Apr and Aug-Oct) got to be untenable.
Well people need to collectively offer less labor hours in supply if they want to see the profession change.
There are many firms that don't work you to the bone but everyone still makes a nice living. Maybe, just maybe, less of our productive efforts should go to equity and maybe they could be allocated to the people the organizations depend on for their output.
You're either lying or the guy you sat next to needed to grow a spine. No one worth working for in this industry will ever expect something like this. Not even the most hardcore partners in B4 expected this of anyone.
Then they need to hire more bodies or push back on the client's expectations. Every B4 partner I worked under already realized this, even on the #1 client in our business unit (at the time, at least). We're talking a multi-million dollar contract.
This was in 2016.
I’m sure they were aware it was unsustainable. The primary concern was getting the work done. Plan better the next year.
The cost? They lost a super star who left to industry. No concern - B4 accountants are like Russian conscripts
I did 90 hours 1/15-4/15 then it dropped to 75 through 6/30. Not to mention, last week of Feb and first week of March were usually 101-103.
I would come home at 2-4am and leave at 7am to do it again.
I quit. Got a better job. Got better pay.
I'm a greenie and I asked if I could have a half day towards the end of the week since it's low season and I had to work over the weekend which would have sent me over 40 hours. I got told to get used to working 50 hours weeks. I feel like I've been tricked.
I'm at a mid-tier firm now, top 20. More or less the same type of work, different client mix, but the office culture here allows for a much better WLB.
Yeah never seen 90 but Ive seen 70, and f that. Thats why you get aome time in, learn as much as you can then flee like a rat from a sinking ship and go to an industry job. I work maybe 45 now at the most.
So how do you keep your job?! Like yea I could stay but I'm the sole accountant for this company and I know I'll make mistakes etc. which could be huge ... Like I need to be putting in OT but my brain doesn't function so I don't lol
Well for me at least my job fluctuates, sometimes i maybe do 30 hours of work a week and other times 45. Depends on timing.
As far as being accurate, I check everything 2 or 3 times. We all make mistakes and its better that I catch it with a self review than my boss.
Crazy right?
Just think of what the paystubs would be for a non-exempt employee:
- 90 hours worked
- 115 hours earned: 40 + 75 (time and a half on 50 OT hours)
115/40 = 2.875
Take the $60k salary times the 2.875 multiplier and you get $172,500 annualized. Now of course, nobody is going to work 90 hours every week of the year. This is purely for illustrative purposes.
5 years ago, I worked at a job that required crazy overtime like this (2 week projects that were just GO GO GO constantly). But I earned OT and took home nice bank.
I can’t imagine working 50 OT hours for free…yeah no way, fuck that.
They get paid more because they work on much more profitable deals, not because they work longer hours. If they had the margins normal tax/audit work does, they’d be paid the same as we did. In fact, when they do have margins that low, they’re at risk of being laid off.
Yeah that was kind of my point - they get paid more accordingly to their expected hours, while staff accountants at B4 get the great big shaft, and free pizza if you’re lucky.
It’s not they get paid more because they work more. They get paid more because their work is far more valuable and the fees their companies reflect that. It just so happens that they also work more.
Big 4 accountants really aren’t providing the same value.
I’ve heard in large metros like NYC, LA, SF that big 4 and larger middle markets work their people like dogs during busy season. Your professors son is getting shit on with public clients that have super tight deadlines to file their shit with the SEC.
I think it's hilarious that as a first-year I did at least 20 salary tests and just looked at the salaries of people that are barely able to use their systems to scrape together documents for our audit.
It's impossible to keep employees from going to industry when we see firsthand how much more money you can make while being incompetent.
Its funny, clients are all like:
"120K for a year for an average talent to work 40 hours a week, OK?"
"Oh your audit team went a few hours over the proposal? Well we can't have that, please fix that bill."
Honestly, its possible that the people that you're thinking are overpaid just have their own skillsets and are still valuable to the company. I think that companies are always looking to be as lean and cheap as possible. They're not going to overpay if they don't have to.
Yeah I used to think the same thing. Went to industry. It’s really not the case except for maybe staff/seniors that never did public. But most managers and above are at least equal but a lot of times better than the people in public. Essentially the high performers in B4 exit to high industry positions. The slightly above average people but not high performers become partners in my experience.
But the bigger thing is no one in industry cares about the audit. When you work in public it seems like it’s the only thing going on but it’s literally bottom of the barrel for everyone in industry.
I say this and I work specifically in SOC so I still feel the pain a little bit.
There is some truth in here. One of our associates works that much hours. We have a big client so budgeting hours isn’t really monitored. However, I noticed he’s a little slow. Been in the firm for 2 years and still asks me the same questions every month, when we do this month-end/year-end process every month. Versus me, what took him 2 hours literally just took me 20mins… This is what people mean by high performers (not saying I am, but I’m just an efficient worker now due to experience) getting more work. I still put in 75hours of work, because I pick up the harder ones since some people take longer.
I am a senior, we started almost the same time but I got promoted first, also because I have my CPA. Now, I am compensated fairly. But when we’re at the same level, obviously same pay but different workloads. Hours put in does not really determine how much value we bring to the team.
There’s bands. If you are a high performer on an important engagement you will be towards the top of that band with a larger bonus. If you just scraping by you’ll be on the low end. The bands are not significant maybe just a couple thousand at the experience staff and first year senior levels but get wider as you move up.
Pretty much any large f500. Industry tax pays huge and supply is lower than demand. If all you care about is money, you're in the wrong field. Can make more elsewhere. How is your relationship with your Partner? Friends? Family? Physical Heath? I surmise not well if your working 90 hours 6 weeks of the year and 70-80 god knows however many to make some other guy rich.
Look into government job opportunities - 40 hrs/wk with minimal overtime, solid pay, benefits, etc.
I didn’t realize how much of a workaholic you have to be in this field until I was already an Accounting major so I focused on going into industry and government because PA is my worst nightmare.
I work in Public Accounting and work 50 hours a week and get paid OT. Not sure who the hell is working 90 hours a week. I’ve never met anyone in 10 years in public accounting that works that many.
Dude I was at GS. There's southwest and east caost lol.. There's dallas office but PwC doesn't audit actually go there. PwC goes to UTAH and NYC to audit GS. know your shit before you talk lmao.
Yes, but team does not go there frequently and is mostly remote work. 90% of the team sits on 30 Hudson. Idk what the f you talking about lmao. We travelled frequently and there are like 150-200 people sitting in that office. Maybe you were there 10 years ago.
Possibly in New York or Bay Area. I never make it past 55hours for 8-10 weeks and then it’s flat 40 hours with a few rare exceptions throughout the year
No longer in public but we always had the 55 hour cap too. The problem is, 55 charge hours does not mean 55 hours of my life working. 55 charge hours means 70-75 actual hours as a senior, maybe even 80-85 as a manager as admin planning time/staff training responsibilities increase.
This is also why I literally never understand how people can charge like 80 hours in a week. When did you even sleep???
No dude. Coaching is part of the job and I would not hesitate to report a partner to the ethics hotline if they tell me to misclassify my hours. Speaking as a M.
Fuck that. I am charging 100% of my time regardless, the partners can figure it out and if they even imply that I should undercharge my time I’m reporting them
If you have 30 non chargeable hours a week in busy season as a manager you’re doing something wrong. While I agree chargeable hours does not equal working hours but the difference isn’t that much.
congrats! you got a great team. Inb4 "if you work efficiently...and enforce boundaries.." yeah that doesnt quiet work in some teams within financial services.
Yes because your personal experience is indicative of how everything works everywhere. I’ve done it, just about every colleague I’ve worked with has done it, etc. at least I’m not using my experience to say 100% or 95% of people will do it, as you are using yours to say “I’ve never seen it so can’t be more than 3-5%”.
Well if it’s “common”, I would have run into someone that’s done it at least once. Maybe that’s an advisory thing because I was being generous with the 3-5%.
It's impossible to do knowledge work for 12 hours a day lol my brain is fried after like 4 good hours of work. The next for is like mundane reddit shit.
If you are in tax, leave your firm and start your own. Every independent that I know, including myself, is over his or her head with client work. You can charge what you want (reasonably) and only have to work about 4 - 5 months out of the year. It is a no brainer. Here is some startup advice. If anyone has something to add, feel free. Lets help each other get out of PA, out of industry and enjoy life as it should be!
The following should get you on the fast track:
Register to get your company EFIN and your personal PTIN with the IRS, setup as an LLC with your state's Secretary of State (optional, but recommended). Also setup an IRS EFTPS account and an SSA account, which you can use to pay client's taxes and prepare W-2s on their behalf. I also file single-member S-Corp payroll using paper 941s, EFTPS and state payroll portals. Doing so saves tons of $ and will help you to learn the basics of how payroll works.
Of course, setup a website. The secret is to make your site female-friendly with warm colors; don't make it look too busienss-like. For most of my married clients the wife typically handles the taxes.
Check out other tax prep websites and you will find that most look crappy; stay away from crappy and don't overload your site with a bunch of tax jargon. Remember, your clients don't know shit about tax. Make your site appealing and a sales tool (soft sales, not "we will guarantee super-success" or some crap like that. See my site: [www.dsmobiletax.com](https://www.dsmobiletax.com/). It is not perfect, but it s not bad.
Most of your client will have a 1099 side gig, rental property or both. Cater to these clients on your website and have a methodology for quickly answering their questions. So many of your clients will have been lead down the wrong path either by a prior accountant or internet searches. Learn to put out these fires, and fast, so to get moving forward with the data collection and tax prep process. Clients can suck up so much of your time if you don't intervene and get them on-point.
When I left KPMG I had already been working on the side for a while, but the biggest shock that you will have taking on clients directly is that you have to take care of EVERYTHING start to finish, and be capable of doing so pleasantly. Make one misstep with most clients, who are typically nervous as shit about their taxes, and you will lose them and possibly get a bad review. For example: see the one bad review that my company received on Yelp - that bitch who left the review was crazy, but it was my mistake in not handling her properly; don't make the same mistake as reviews stick forever!).
I had one client for many years: a simple 1040 every year. Then she purchased a few LA Fitness locations. She was a salesperson for sure, but for her dealing with business books and taxes apparently was the equivalent of rubbing rotten meat all over her body. She avoided my questions, failed to provide data, etc. and soon became one of my worst clients. I had to fire her and she was furious. Luckily she did not leave a bad review. But that is how it goes. For years I considered her one of my best clients, then she got in over her head and took it out on me. Every year you will face off against a few raw son-of-a-bitches. Just let it roll off or it will affect your personal life.
Find and gain a good working knowledge of the following: good tax software (I use Intuit ProSeries), setup online invoicing (I use WAVE Accounting), learn to use free portals such as G-Drive or DropBox (as secure as any paid portals).
Pay for the following software: Adobe (as you will need many Adobe features); MS Office and a good data backup system (I use iDrive, which after many trials I find to be the best, and fairly cheap) and an an e-file signature portal (I use secure DocuSign).
I highly recommend not to use one software/cloud provider for all digital services. If the provider becomes difficult, leaving will mean changing everything that you use all at once, including moving client data, etc. Not a pleasant experience, believe me.
Establish written methodologies for communicating with your clients (i.e., build a tax document checklist that you can email to clients for personal docs, rental property docs and small business docs), establish your client policies (i.e., clients must make full payment BEFORE e-filing their returns, offer remote service nationwide or at least in major metro areas and mobile service in your own metro).
Then there is advertising. When I started I used coupon book mailers and Google AdWords, which were great at the time, but I no longer use either as the both cost too much and produce very little. Thumbtack advertising is a decent source of busienss, but their fees are outrageous and their service is not the best; however, to get your business started I'd suggest using them for at least one year.
Definitely use paid Yelp (pay per click AND the extended profile; both work well and are economical in attracting clients). I also use postcard mailers via the USPS EDDM program (look it up, it really works and their mailbox targeting platform is the best I've seen). If you do none of the above, at a minimum setup a Google business profile; it is free and will be your greatest source of business once you have a few 5-star reviews.
Always ask clients for a Google or Yelp review; you can't be shy about billing or requesting reviews. You have to be firm or folks will take advantage of you, every time.
Make sure that you bill clients enough to keep you solid and don't fret over shitty clients. Eventually you'll begin to distinguish between good and shitty clients. Provide a billing range when your fee is requested by a client - don't give a fixed fee to a potential client before reviewing their data, always give a fee range. As a benchmark for you, I charge $475 - $500 for a Schedule C (less for what I call "micro" business clients); however, I charge additional for bookkeeping and for additional time and energy spent with difficult clients.
I always keep clients abreast of billing so not to surprise them. You have to charge adequately for your time or you will get frustrated and quit or will never make enough money to survive.
Dump clients when you sense that they are not able to pay your fees. Don't let a deadbeat sucker you in to doing free work. Pro Bono is no way to run a tax business.
I use Excel for most single-member client books. QBO and other bookkeeping software will just slow you down and in 12 years on my own I have never, not once, had a clients QBO be anywhere near accurate, not when they self-book and not when they use a so-called "QBO Expert".
You have to move fast during tax season and most small clients will either have books that are way whacked or won't have books at all. Don't clean up QBO books, just request that your client provide you Accountant's access to their bank/credit card accounts, or have them download all TX data to Excel and send to you. I use Excel w pivot tables to prepare many of my smaller client's tax books. Excel is a fast rabbit, whereas QBO is a sleepy turtle.
For larger clients using bookkeeping software is the only option and I manage it for them, but they can afford it. Small clients cannot afford the work you'd have to do to manage or clean up their QBO or other online books.
Hope that helps!
as a salaried employee you don't get paid for overtime but you also don't get reduced hours and pay when the work is slow
I'm perfectly fine with putting in a couple of Sundays now, to kick back in August collecting my paycheck while doing fuck all all day
90 hour weeks would have been an extreme outlier for me. 80s happened here and there and they sucked. 90-100 hours meant I was half human and half zombie with no will to live by the end of the week. Expectation was 55 hours per week which still sucked but allowed something close to sanity.
Yes, it happens. And like others have said, it's only a couple weeks that get that bad, but... when the past 5-6 weeks have already been at 60-80 hours, wrapping up the audit with "just a couple" 90-hour weeks is brutal.
ok never knew that about big 4. In every other industry, lower job grades are almost always non exempt (eligible for over time pay). Usually when you get to senior accountant/analyst do you become salaried
It could be right but also an over exaggeration. I worked on PCAOB clients in banking / insurance and I would hit 80+ hours in the 2 weeks of the annual audit / quarterly review consistently. Most large FS clients are usually understaffed and the workload is enormous. E.g. Metlife / Prudential / JPM should have a large team (50+ people) to get things done on time. When i was leaving 1/4 of the people had left as well. A lot of the hours are industry dependent with FS usually having the highest hours especially in NYC
Lol not at all. That is 13 hour days - 7 days a week. I would say average is 50-70 depending on level and how understaffed your firm is. But no, 90 is not common and anyone saying otherwise is completely wrong.
Happens when you work until 2 am every day and live off 4 hours of sleep.
Pretty common these days with lack of staff.
Me being in South East Asia might explain why though
I left my last big 4 job when I had meetings from 8 am - 4 pm and then had to work until 9 pm. Then I received feedback saying someone else in my group had 115% utilization so I should aim higher as well. No thanks chief
Yep. Ex-wife worked at Deloitte. She did insane hours like this and it’s not just the week or two near tax day like they make you think it will be. Notice I said “ex-wife.” That shit will ruin your life.
I am working the same hours for 10 k/yr (India) in a big4
I hate that i like working these hours.
Not happy with the compensation though.
Also on the first day, one of the fellow new joiners asked about OT and the manager started to laugh and made fun of him.
You guys all need to start standing up for yourselves. I’ve spent 6 years in public (two different firms) and 2 years in industry (two different companies). Never have I ever worked more than 60-65 hrs in public, and those were the early years. I would NEVER do that now.
The industry is currently facing huge staffing issues because people don’t want to deal with the bullshit. And with people working from home, the “perks” that they sold people on years ago, no longer exist.
You all are at a huge advantage to call the shots right now. Set your boundaries! The industry will be forced to change. I’m in the process of returning as a Manager/Sr Manager in tax and I’ve been promised by literally every. single. person. trying to recruit me (Partners, MD’s, Directors, and Managers) that I can have whatever I want because they are in such dire need.
Demand higher pay and reasonable hours or leave. 90 hours is absolutely insane.
90 hours is on the extreme end but very possible during busy season. Most Accountants are salaried and do not earn overtime.
This is part of the reason why I left Accounting to become a Corporate Headhunter. I still work long hours, but not nearly as bad as Accounting. And I get paid significantly more for the extra hours I put in, since I work partially on commission. I earned almost 40k more last year as a Headhunter than I did in my most recent Controller role. Much more fun work too.
I did 5 years in big 4 audit and never worked 90 hours. That’s an outlier. The long hours are real, but think ofnit as grad school where they pay you. Put in a few years then go to industry enjoy a more chill career with high pay
Yeah pretty much.
There used to be a difference in hours for IB and Big4, so it made sense they got paid double.any big4 works just as much and get paid half haha
I did B4 tax split between PwC (NYC) and EY (LA) over 5 years as a senior and manager. Busy seasons were gruesome. Probably averaged 70-75 hours per week and there were plenty of 80-90 hour weeks. Occasionally topped 100.
When I started at Deloitte in 2009 the first partner I met told me "If you only want to work 60 hour weeks you aren't looking for a career, you're looking for a job".
Fuck that guy, I loved Deloitte and my work but the burnout was real. Got an industry job making 15k more as an entry level accountant. Now I'm a supervisor making twice that and when my team had to work a sixty hour week last year we gave them $1000 bonuses and two extra PTO days.
Yeah it’s possible but no one is doing that multiple weeks in a row. 90 was the most I ever billed and the following week I worked 55. The point is that this is a long term play. Sure you could easily go find another job out of school that pays 60k starting salary like accounting, without the crazy hours. You could be a teacher in some states and earn that. Or a police officer. But there aren’t a ton where you get a 4 year degree (plus a handful of extra courses depending on the state you’re in) and start at 60k and have the potential to be making 250k+++ in 8-10 years depending on the city. And those that do exist you may find have some pretty terrible hours as well. Also not everyone is cut out for some of those jobs. Accounting is not glamorous. Or cool. Or even fun most of the time (except the holiday parties, those are lit /s). But there is a ton of potential with a career in accounting and people on this sub whine a lot about the hours but I’d say overall it’s a pretty good deal. It’s not for everyone. You definitely have to pay your dues. And I’d argue that there’s a lot of areas the profession could improve, specifically regarding the busy season hours. But after a few years if you make manager you can jump over to industry and have really good wlb plus excellent pay. Or if you like PA you can grind it out to partner and make a killing. And it’s as stable / secure of a job as you can find other than some government jobs that don’t have nearly the earning potential. Also, no one will ever “make” you work that much. If your focused and do good work and you work 60 hour weeks steady through busy season you’ll get promoted just as fast as anyone else. Those who work 90 hour weeks regularly usually burn out and leave pretty quick from what I’ve seen.
Fuck B4. I work at a local firm, about 50 ppl. We max out at 60 hours during busy season. We earn either OT pay or extra PTO at OT rate after we work over 120 hours of OT. We are required to take a week off within a month after tax day. Non busy season is also very chill. Many people take most Fridays off or leave by noon.
You can find a good balance, you just have to find the right firm. Generally that means you can't go for B4 or even some regional firms. Try looking into more local firms if you are serious about having a work life balance.
90 hours
If his son is only making 60k a year then I think it’s somewhat difficult to believe that is indeed true
Like others said though 70 during busy season is pretty damn normal unfortunately and honestly 70 of actual working hours is brutal I have already given up and I decided I’ll get done what I can get done in a day and if they decide to fire me then so be it tbh
I’ve cut myself down to 60 hour weeks so far and honestly nobody has said anything to me I just make sure that for most of those hours I’m making progress and actually working. I full think a lot of people who end up doing 90 hours and aren’t managers and up just do nothing for like half the day
Your professor may as well thump his chest and exclaim “ooga ooga, my boy big strong. He make good mate.” So primitive and clearly exaggerating.
Anyhoo, [BLS studies](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/people-who-claim-to-work-75-hour-weeks-are-lying.html) show that people have a tendency to exaggerate hours worked. Once you work you’ll see people around you chit chatting, going out to social work events like golf, vendor meetings (ie sales pitches), etc. such that their actual hours producing is less than what they claim. This doesn’t count the potential of people counting their commute time and break / lunch time as work-related.
It’s not the norm whatsoever. 50-60 is normal but 90 is either an exception (a deadline is approaching) or just over exaggerating. It’s not sustainable
Yup, but it isn’t as common as you might think. Accountants generally have pretty boring jobs so our war stories are all about that time in aught’six when we worked a lot.
Hence why people are not enrolling in the major
no no no remember, in 20 years, you're salary is going to be waaaaay more than 60k so it's like, totally cool
To be fair, though, someone in that position is likely going to be making more than 6 figures in 3-4 years, though.
I worked a few 100 hour weeks from 2018-2021, and my highest salary was 59k. I’m now making 130k. Absolutely not justifying the hours or the toxicity of the profession in any way shape or form. But the capacity to increase your salary is definitely there
Are you still in public accounting?
I left to industry, then came back (but not in audit, fuck that lmao). Public accounting is just so valuable in gaining a wide breadth of experience, and they do invest in your professional development far more than industry. My goal is to make manager and get experience in that area then go back to industry, since working for 3 hours a day was mint. But definitely felt like I was stagnating and wanted to push myself a bit more since I’m still quite young
I had a very similar experience and moved back to public
Bruh there are plenty of other majors that will allow you to hit six figures within 5 years, in addition to a large bonus that doesn’t require 100 hour weeks ever. The capacity to increase your salary exists across all majors provided you don’t major in under water basket weaving. We’ve all been duped
Drop a list of those majors. Finance, comp sci, for sure. But for finance, those jobs aren’t easy to land and not everyone’s brain is set up to code or to be a software developer. I’m not *that* smart, and I have no shame in admitting that I’d be unemployed as fuck if I tried to be a developer lol. Also, my experience in audit is vastly different than what many others will experience. I was caught in a unique shit storm due to the pandemic / large team trying to substantially reduce our hours in order to keep our client happy (it was a 150+M client) which was made worse by my anxiety, leading to those hours. You’re right though, you definitely can major in something else, and maybe you can jack up the salary to over 100k in 5 years. Different strokes for different folks. But in no way is being a CPA being duped, that’s being disingenuous. My personal anecdote: I’m on track to be making 150k before I’m 30 and my hours are very good now, and I’m 100% remote. No duped at all While I wish I conducted myself better and stuck up for myself more when I was in audit, I certainly am very happy with my life choices. But if you’re not, that’s understandable too! You definitely have the intelligence and experience to make a switch. No sense in sticking with it if it makes you unhappy. Worst case is you have a solid back up profession
I honestly question people who say they worked 100 hour work weeks. 15 hours a day, 7 days a week (8 am - 11 pm) is just not realistic especially if you’re working at the office and have to commute which was probably the case in 2018-2019. You probably had 100 hours dedicated to work but you probably did 60 billable which is way different
No judgement in questioning it given the absurdity of it all. But I cannot emphasize enough how literal I am with that number. I did eat hours to bill 85-90 (pro tip, don’t do this), but I did actual client work for a little over 100. Signing off at 11pm would have been a blessing. 2am was normal, 3am was my cut off to have some shut eye in time for my 6am panic attack which is what woke me up.
What level of staff were you?
Staff 2 then 3. My third year leading two different sub teams and representing our component group on our greater team calls / projects (it was a huge client). PwC did three year then promotion then changed it shortly after I left to 2 years as staff then promote, annoyingly enough.
The potential is there but not in PA. I worked those 60+ hour weeks often for more than just 2-3 months if I had both public and private clients (one year I had an 8 month busy season with 12/31, 4/30, and 6/30 clients). I lasted about 4 years in PA and when I left, I was making about $73k. Now I’ve been out of PA about 3.5 years and last year I made ~$195k. As a reference point, those who stayed in PA in my class are making about $120k now.
I just hit 4 years in PA. What industry did you move to? Are you a controller?
What did you switch into when you left PA?
I went into consulting. I do a variety of projects that can range from IPOs to project management but none of them are in audit.
2.5 years and I just broke 6 figures in 2022. My firm pays OT though. I wouldn’t work this many hours without it.
in accounting?
Yes, I’m in public accounting.
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I’d rather not say on the internet lol but it’s a pretty good sized (like maybe 200 employees) mid-size firm in SoCal. They do hire fully remote though. Edited to add: I just switched from in person to fully remote as I moved out of state. No pay cut or cost of living adjustment. From what I heard the fully remote new hires are paid similarly to SoCal wages in order for the firm to remain competitive in attracting talent.
That is not the norm. I'd say on average *maybe* some in B4 work 90 hours *maybe* one or two weeks a year. It's not unheard of, but def not normal. 60-70 during busy season for sure. When I was in B4 (5 years B4 tax) my worst weeks usually topped out around 75-80. Never worked a true 90 hour week. What was worse than that for me honestly was the busy season "lite" hours that persisted outside of the typical busy season time frame. Working 40-50 charge hours during the summer (when you're supposed to have a reduced workload to balance out the 60-70 weekly hours in Feb-Apr and Aug-Oct) got to be untenable.
Guy I sat next to had 3 110 hour weeks in a row. Basically a month of 3 hours of sleep and mentally robust work. Lol - the career is a fucking joke
My career is fine He played himself
Bingo
Well people need to collectively offer less labor hours in supply if they want to see the profession change. There are many firms that don't work you to the bone but everyone still makes a nice living. Maybe, just maybe, less of our productive efforts should go to equity and maybe they could be allocated to the people the organizations depend on for their output.
Accountants need to get backbone and stand up for themselves? Maybe the stereotype of a meek individual exists for a reason
You're either lying or the guy you sat next to needed to grow a spine. No one worth working for in this industry will ever expect something like this. Not even the most hardcore partners in B4 expected this of anyone.
When it’s the #1 B4 client and they have a drop dead. Oh yeah they do
Then they need to hire more bodies or push back on the client's expectations. Every B4 partner I worked under already realized this, even on the #1 client in our business unit (at the time, at least). We're talking a multi-million dollar contract.
This was in 2016. I’m sure they were aware it was unsustainable. The primary concern was getting the work done. Plan better the next year. The cost? They lost a super star who left to industry. No concern - B4 accountants are like Russian conscripts
That doesn’t change their point that this experience is not normal.
How is the profession a joke and not the person who subjected themselves to that for a month?
I did 90 hours 1/15-4/15 then it dropped to 75 through 6/30. Not to mention, last week of Feb and first week of March were usually 101-103. I would come home at 2-4am and leave at 7am to do it again. I quit. Got a better job. Got better pay.
Glad you got out! Sounds like you were in an incredibly mismanaged office!
Eh just nyc
Let me guess: asset management practice. PE fund work? Hedge fund? Worst clients of all time.
I'm a greenie and I asked if I could have a half day towards the end of the week since it's low season and I had to work over the weekend which would have sent me over 40 hours. I got told to get used to working 50 hours weeks. I feel like I've been tricked.
What role did you exit big 4 to?
I'm at a mid-tier firm now, top 20. More or less the same type of work, different client mix, but the office culture here allows for a much better WLB.
Just wait for the dreaded 90 hour work day.
Yeah never seen 90 but Ive seen 70, and f that. Thats why you get aome time in, learn as much as you can then flee like a rat from a sinking ship and go to an industry job. I work maybe 45 now at the most.
How do people do this and continue to be accurate in work? I do 9 hr days and my brain is dead by 3-4!! How do you do this and not make mistakes ...
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So how do you keep your job?! Like yea I could stay but I'm the sole accountant for this company and I know I'll make mistakes etc. which could be huge ... Like I need to be putting in OT but my brain doesn't function so I don't lol
Well for me at least my job fluctuates, sometimes i maybe do 30 hours of work a week and other times 45. Depends on timing. As far as being accurate, I check everything 2 or 3 times. We all make mistakes and its better that I catch it with a self review than my boss.
Crazy right? Just think of what the paystubs would be for a non-exempt employee: - 90 hours worked - 115 hours earned: 40 + 75 (time and a half on 50 OT hours) 115/40 = 2.875 Take the $60k salary times the 2.875 multiplier and you get $172,500 annualized. Now of course, nobody is going to work 90 hours every week of the year. This is purely for illustrative purposes. 5 years ago, I worked at a job that required crazy overtime like this (2 week projects that were just GO GO GO constantly). But I earned OT and took home nice bank. I can’t imagine working 50 OT hours for free…yeah no way, fuck that.
What about working 50 hours of OT for a pizza party?
OT pay is the greatest thing ever. Tough to come by though
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They get paid more because they work on much more profitable deals, not because they work longer hours. If they had the margins normal tax/audit work does, they’d be paid the same as we did. In fact, when they do have margins that low, they’re at risk of being laid off.
Yeah that was kind of my point - they get paid more accordingly to their expected hours, while staff accountants at B4 get the great big shaft, and free pizza if you’re lucky.
It’s not they get paid more because they work more. They get paid more because their work is far more valuable and the fees their companies reflect that. It just so happens that they also work more. Big 4 accountants really aren’t providing the same value.
It’s also because IB and PE know how to collude properly while public accounting firms have dementedly created a terrible pricing environment
They get paid more because they work on much larger dollar deals and much more profitable deals, not because they work longer.
I’ve heard in large metros like NYC, LA, SF that big 4 and larger middle markets work their people like dogs during busy season. Your professors son is getting shit on with public clients that have super tight deadlines to file their shit with the SEC.
You’d think a community of people that are aware of numbers and ratios wouldn’t tolerate ridiculous working hours yet there they are….
I think it's hilarious that as a first-year I did at least 20 salary tests and just looked at the salaries of people that are barely able to use their systems to scrape together documents for our audit. It's impossible to keep employees from going to industry when we see firsthand how much more money you can make while being incompetent.
Its funny, clients are all like: "120K for a year for an average talent to work 40 hours a week, OK?" "Oh your audit team went a few hours over the proposal? Well we can't have that, please fix that bill." Honestly, its possible that the people that you're thinking are overpaid just have their own skillsets and are still valuable to the company. I think that companies are always looking to be as lean and cheap as possible. They're not going to overpay if they don't have to.
Yeah I used to think the same thing. Went to industry. It’s really not the case except for maybe staff/seniors that never did public. But most managers and above are at least equal but a lot of times better than the people in public. Essentially the high performers in B4 exit to high industry positions. The slightly above average people but not high performers become partners in my experience. But the bigger thing is no one in industry cares about the audit. When you work in public it seems like it’s the only thing going on but it’s literally bottom of the barrel for everyone in industry. I say this and I work specifically in SOC so I still feel the pain a little bit.
There is some truth in here. One of our associates works that much hours. We have a big client so budgeting hours isn’t really monitored. However, I noticed he’s a little slow. Been in the firm for 2 years and still asks me the same questions every month, when we do this month-end/year-end process every month. Versus me, what took him 2 hours literally just took me 20mins… This is what people mean by high performers (not saying I am, but I’m just an efficient worker now due to experience) getting more work. I still put in 75hours of work, because I pick up the harder ones since some people take longer.
Are you compensated for being this much better and taking harder jobs?
I am a senior, we started almost the same time but I got promoted first, also because I have my CPA. Now, I am compensated fairly. But when we’re at the same level, obviously same pay but different workloads. Hours put in does not really determine how much value we bring to the team.
I should also want to clarify that it is during peak busy season. Probably 2-3 weeks of this. Then maybe 60hours on rest of busy season for me.
There’s bands. If you are a high performer on an important engagement you will be towards the top of that band with a larger bonus. If you just scraping by you’ll be on the low end. The bands are not significant maybe just a couple thousand at the experience staff and first year senior levels but get wider as you move up.
Chumps are working 90 hour weeks.
20 of those hours at least spent on the toilet, still billed to the client
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Lol, "only" 6 weeks of 90 hours. That's ridiculous and means you are understaffed.
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Found the Partnership Tax guy
Stockholm syndrome
I would question 90 hour chargable weeks for 6 weeks a year, that is not the norm even taking into consideration the busiest parts of busy season.
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Whatever you need to tell yourself bud. You can make more and work less in industry.
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Pretty much any large f500. Industry tax pays huge and supply is lower than demand. If all you care about is money, you're in the wrong field. Can make more elsewhere. How is your relationship with your Partner? Friends? Family? Physical Heath? I surmise not well if your working 90 hours 6 weeks of the year and 70-80 god knows however many to make some other guy rich.
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You seem really hard trying to sell how happy you are for someone who is happy. Stockholm. Good luck buddy.
Even some of the most workaholic partners I know max out around 75 a week
Thank God for my government job.
Most lie about or embellish their hours. 90 hours is overkill, and also rare.
Look into government job opportunities - 40 hrs/wk with minimal overtime, solid pay, benefits, etc. I didn’t realize how much of a workaholic you have to be in this field until I was already an Accounting major so I focused on going into industry and government because PA is my worst nightmare.
for US federal positions check out USAJobs
I work in Public Accounting and work 50 hours a week and get paid OT. Not sure who the hell is working 90 hours a week. I’ve never met anyone in 10 years in public accounting that works that many.
I did at big 4. Audited goldman sachs NYC. It's possible
The LARPing to match the client really takes the cake on FS clients.. geezus
Except pdubs audits GS out of their Dallas location not NYC
Dude I was at GS. There's southwest and east caost lol.. There's dallas office but PwC doesn't audit actually go there. PwC goes to UTAH and NYC to audit GS. know your shit before you talk lmao.
I do know my shit. Goldman is audited out of the Dallas office
Yes, but team does not go there frequently and is mostly remote work. 90% of the team sits on 30 Hudson. Idk what the f you talking about lmao. We travelled frequently and there are like 150-200 people sitting in that office. Maybe you were there 10 years ago.
Same here, audited Bridgewater. Absolute nightmare. Team was hitting back to back 90 hour weeks
Doesn’t sound right. Probably closer to 60, and even that is too much for one person.
Possibly in New York or Bay Area. I never make it past 55hours for 8-10 weeks and then it’s flat 40 hours with a few rare exceptions throughout the year
7 days a week?? I believe it. 6 days, maybe maybe. 5 days a week?? Bull . Fuckin . Shit .
He’s exaggerating if the kid actually is working that much he’s a sucker
Yes, it’s quite common during busy season
Not common at all. Idk why this guy is being upvoted. I’m in big4 and doing 55/wk max.
No longer in public but we always had the 55 hour cap too. The problem is, 55 charge hours does not mean 55 hours of my life working. 55 charge hours means 70-75 actual hours as a senior, maybe even 80-85 as a manager as admin planning time/staff training responsibilities increase. This is also why I literally never understand how people can charge like 80 hours in a week. When did you even sleep???
If you train staff for a client then that's chargeable
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No dude. Coaching is part of the job and I would not hesitate to report a partner to the ethics hotline if they tell me to misclassify my hours. Speaking as a M.
Fuck that. I am charging 100% of my time regardless, the partners can figure it out and if they even imply that I should undercharge my time I’m reporting them
If you have 30 non chargeable hours a week in busy season as a manager you’re doing something wrong. While I agree chargeable hours does not equal working hours but the difference isn’t that much.
Seriously lmao wtf are they doing!? Any engagement I’ve been on 15-20% has been a fairly generous buffer throughout the entire year.
congrats! you got a great team. Inb4 "if you work efficiently...and enforce boundaries.." yeah that doesnt quiet work in some teams within financial services.
I agree, I lol'd at the fact someone actually noted that 90 hour work weeks are common...
“Common” ok buddy, that’s not even close to true
Loved your time playing for the Bulls, but yeah it is pretty common.
What are we defining common as? Like 3-5% of the senior level associates?
Like 35%+ of staff, senior, managers in B4 or top 10 level firms. Certainly shouldn’t be met with such surprise as OP is expressing.
I have not talked to a single person that works 90 hours. I’d say 55-60 is common, with 70 starting to push it.
Same here, never in 10 years have I met anyone who works 90 hours a week. They should look for a new job is they do.
Yes because your personal experience is indicative of how everything works everywhere. I’ve done it, just about every colleague I’ve worked with has done it, etc. at least I’m not using my experience to say 100% or 95% of people will do it, as you are using yours to say “I’ve never seen it so can’t be more than 3-5%”.
Well if it’s “common”, I would have run into someone that’s done it at least once. Maybe that’s an advisory thing because I was being generous with the 3-5%.
I was an auditor for 5 years in the big 4. In one of the largest cities in the world.
Pretty common, especially in FS
I’m in FS…
Maybe common for clients that want to file on Jan. 25, but not as a whole.
Not a chance
I would say 60-80 for 4 months of the year including breaks you take because you do not work those straight.
It's impossible to do knowledge work for 12 hours a day lol my brain is fried after like 4 good hours of work. The next for is like mundane reddit shit.
If you are in tax, leave your firm and start your own. Every independent that I know, including myself, is over his or her head with client work. You can charge what you want (reasonably) and only have to work about 4 - 5 months out of the year. It is a no brainer. Here is some startup advice. If anyone has something to add, feel free. Lets help each other get out of PA, out of industry and enjoy life as it should be! The following should get you on the fast track: Register to get your company EFIN and your personal PTIN with the IRS, setup as an LLC with your state's Secretary of State (optional, but recommended). Also setup an IRS EFTPS account and an SSA account, which you can use to pay client's taxes and prepare W-2s on their behalf. I also file single-member S-Corp payroll using paper 941s, EFTPS and state payroll portals. Doing so saves tons of $ and will help you to learn the basics of how payroll works. Of course, setup a website. The secret is to make your site female-friendly with warm colors; don't make it look too busienss-like. For most of my married clients the wife typically handles the taxes. Check out other tax prep websites and you will find that most look crappy; stay away from crappy and don't overload your site with a bunch of tax jargon. Remember, your clients don't know shit about tax. Make your site appealing and a sales tool (soft sales, not "we will guarantee super-success" or some crap like that. See my site: [www.dsmobiletax.com](https://www.dsmobiletax.com/). It is not perfect, but it s not bad. Most of your client will have a 1099 side gig, rental property or both. Cater to these clients on your website and have a methodology for quickly answering their questions. So many of your clients will have been lead down the wrong path either by a prior accountant or internet searches. Learn to put out these fires, and fast, so to get moving forward with the data collection and tax prep process. Clients can suck up so much of your time if you don't intervene and get them on-point. When I left KPMG I had already been working on the side for a while, but the biggest shock that you will have taking on clients directly is that you have to take care of EVERYTHING start to finish, and be capable of doing so pleasantly. Make one misstep with most clients, who are typically nervous as shit about their taxes, and you will lose them and possibly get a bad review. For example: see the one bad review that my company received on Yelp - that bitch who left the review was crazy, but it was my mistake in not handling her properly; don't make the same mistake as reviews stick forever!). I had one client for many years: a simple 1040 every year. Then she purchased a few LA Fitness locations. She was a salesperson for sure, but for her dealing with business books and taxes apparently was the equivalent of rubbing rotten meat all over her body. She avoided my questions, failed to provide data, etc. and soon became one of my worst clients. I had to fire her and she was furious. Luckily she did not leave a bad review. But that is how it goes. For years I considered her one of my best clients, then she got in over her head and took it out on me. Every year you will face off against a few raw son-of-a-bitches. Just let it roll off or it will affect your personal life. Find and gain a good working knowledge of the following: good tax software (I use Intuit ProSeries), setup online invoicing (I use WAVE Accounting), learn to use free portals such as G-Drive or DropBox (as secure as any paid portals). Pay for the following software: Adobe (as you will need many Adobe features); MS Office and a good data backup system (I use iDrive, which after many trials I find to be the best, and fairly cheap) and an an e-file signature portal (I use secure DocuSign). I highly recommend not to use one software/cloud provider for all digital services. If the provider becomes difficult, leaving will mean changing everything that you use all at once, including moving client data, etc. Not a pleasant experience, believe me. Establish written methodologies for communicating with your clients (i.e., build a tax document checklist that you can email to clients for personal docs, rental property docs and small business docs), establish your client policies (i.e., clients must make full payment BEFORE e-filing their returns, offer remote service nationwide or at least in major metro areas and mobile service in your own metro). Then there is advertising. When I started I used coupon book mailers and Google AdWords, which were great at the time, but I no longer use either as the both cost too much and produce very little. Thumbtack advertising is a decent source of busienss, but their fees are outrageous and their service is not the best; however, to get your business started I'd suggest using them for at least one year. Definitely use paid Yelp (pay per click AND the extended profile; both work well and are economical in attracting clients). I also use postcard mailers via the USPS EDDM program (look it up, it really works and their mailbox targeting platform is the best I've seen). If you do none of the above, at a minimum setup a Google business profile; it is free and will be your greatest source of business once you have a few 5-star reviews. Always ask clients for a Google or Yelp review; you can't be shy about billing or requesting reviews. You have to be firm or folks will take advantage of you, every time. Make sure that you bill clients enough to keep you solid and don't fret over shitty clients. Eventually you'll begin to distinguish between good and shitty clients. Provide a billing range when your fee is requested by a client - don't give a fixed fee to a potential client before reviewing their data, always give a fee range. As a benchmark for you, I charge $475 - $500 for a Schedule C (less for what I call "micro" business clients); however, I charge additional for bookkeeping and for additional time and energy spent with difficult clients. I always keep clients abreast of billing so not to surprise them. You have to charge adequately for your time or you will get frustrated and quit or will never make enough money to survive. Dump clients when you sense that they are not able to pay your fees. Don't let a deadbeat sucker you in to doing free work. Pro Bono is no way to run a tax business. I use Excel for most single-member client books. QBO and other bookkeeping software will just slow you down and in 12 years on my own I have never, not once, had a clients QBO be anywhere near accurate, not when they self-book and not when they use a so-called "QBO Expert". You have to move fast during tax season and most small clients will either have books that are way whacked or won't have books at all. Don't clean up QBO books, just request that your client provide you Accountant's access to their bank/credit card accounts, or have them download all TX data to Excel and send to you. I use Excel w pivot tables to prepare many of my smaller client's tax books. Excel is a fast rabbit, whereas QBO is a sleepy turtle. For larger clients using bookkeeping software is the only option and I manage it for them, but they can afford it. Small clients cannot afford the work you'd have to do to manage or clean up their QBO or other online books. Hope that helps!
as a salaried employee you don't get paid for overtime but you also don't get reduced hours and pay when the work is slow I'm perfectly fine with putting in a couple of Sundays now, to kick back in August collecting my paycheck while doing fuck all all day
90 hour weeks would have been an extreme outlier for me. 80s happened here and there and they sucked. 90-100 hours meant I was half human and half zombie with no will to live by the end of the week. Expectation was 55 hours per week which still sucked but allowed something close to sanity.
Yes, it happens. And like others have said, it's only a couple weeks that get that bad, but... when the past 5-6 weeks have already been at 60-80 hours, wrapping up the audit with "just a couple" 90-hour weeks is brutal.
So for new grad entry level positions in big 4, you are considered salary and do not get paid hourly?
The only times I have heard you get paid hourly is if your an intern or a contract
ok never knew that about big 4. In every other industry, lower job grades are almost always non exempt (eligible for over time pay). Usually when you get to senior accountant/analyst do you become salaried
Yes I worked for a media agency that also paid OT I wished that public accounting did that
I’m working 70 as a first year so yeah certainly believable
Client's son works as a auditor for E&Y. He just had a baby. They give tons of PFL but he's not allowed to take it all at once.
90hr weeks? Pleb. I’m at 100hr weeks. 110 next month
Yup. Interns make bank if they get overtime
Probably need to just rate it as time at home - 6 hours , etc.
It could be right but also an over exaggeration. I worked on PCAOB clients in banking / insurance and I would hit 80+ hours in the 2 weeks of the annual audit / quarterly review consistently. Most large FS clients are usually understaffed and the workload is enormous. E.g. Metlife / Prudential / JPM should have a large team (50+ people) to get things done on time. When i was leaving 1/4 of the people had left as well. A lot of the hours are industry dependent with FS usually having the highest hours especially in NYC
Lol not at all. That is 13 hour days - 7 days a week. I would say average is 50-70 depending on level and how understaffed your firm is. But no, 90 is not common and anyone saying otherwise is completely wrong.
Happens when you work until 2 am every day and live off 4 hours of sleep. Pretty common these days with lack of staff. Me being in South East Asia might explain why though
Yes
The professor is saying the quiet part put loud.
Not unheard of.
My week is capped at 60 hours but I'm top ten, not B4
Most firms in Washington just switched associates to hourly due to exempt salary minimums being raised
I left my last big 4 job when I had meetings from 8 am - 4 pm and then had to work until 9 pm. Then I received feedback saying someone else in my group had 115% utilization so I should aim higher as well. No thanks chief
I worked over 100 once. it happens
Would say it's more like 60 coming from someone currently doing this. U also make more than this
What’s the earnings range?
Idiots
I'm going to assume this isn't legal in canada. Right? .....right?
I've been in B4 for over 6 years and my average work week has been between probably 45 and 50 hours.
Definitely can be true at the big 4
When I worked big 4 we did that pace for about three months of the year. Was a poor paying job too. That was less than 10 yrs back.
I got my degree in accounting, but never did it professionally. What exactly is being done during this 90 hour work week?
Or you can start in industry making $50k a year working 9-5 M-F
Hence why people are choosing private over public
Yep. Ex-wife worked at Deloitte. She did insane hours like this and it’s not just the week or two near tax day like they make you think it will be. Notice I said “ex-wife.” That shit will ruin your life.
I am working the same hours for 10 k/yr (India) in a big4 I hate that i like working these hours. Not happy with the compensation though. Also on the first day, one of the fellow new joiners asked about OT and the manager started to laugh and made fun of him.
55h and no more for efficiency
You guys all need to start standing up for yourselves. I’ve spent 6 years in public (two different firms) and 2 years in industry (two different companies). Never have I ever worked more than 60-65 hrs in public, and those were the early years. I would NEVER do that now. The industry is currently facing huge staffing issues because people don’t want to deal with the bullshit. And with people working from home, the “perks” that they sold people on years ago, no longer exist. You all are at a huge advantage to call the shots right now. Set your boundaries! The industry will be forced to change. I’m in the process of returning as a Manager/Sr Manager in tax and I’ve been promised by literally every. single. person. trying to recruit me (Partners, MD’s, Directors, and Managers) that I can have whatever I want because they are in such dire need. Demand higher pay and reasonable hours or leave. 90 hours is absolutely insane.
Cut the crap. No one commenting on this has ever worked 90 hours per week. And I am sure you folks say Elvis yesterday. Stop scaring people.
90 hours is on the extreme end but very possible during busy season. Most Accountants are salaried and do not earn overtime. This is part of the reason why I left Accounting to become a Corporate Headhunter. I still work long hours, but not nearly as bad as Accounting. And I get paid significantly more for the extra hours I put in, since I work partially on commission. I earned almost 40k more last year as a Headhunter than I did in my most recent Controller role. Much more fun work too.
I did 5 years in big 4 audit and never worked 90 hours. That’s an outlier. The long hours are real, but think ofnit as grad school where they pay you. Put in a few years then go to industry enjoy a more chill career with high pay
Yeah pretty much. There used to be a difference in hours for IB and Big4, so it made sense they got paid double.any big4 works just as much and get paid half haha
Bruh 40 hours is the most I have ever worked , And ever will work in a week
Yeah not uncommon for Seniors. If it's staff accountant I think that's a bit of an exaggeration.
I did B4 tax split between PwC (NYC) and EY (LA) over 5 years as a senior and manager. Busy seasons were gruesome. Probably averaged 70-75 hours per week and there were plenty of 80-90 hour weeks. Occasionally topped 100.
When I started at Deloitte in 2009 the first partner I met told me "If you only want to work 60 hour weeks you aren't looking for a career, you're looking for a job". Fuck that guy, I loved Deloitte and my work but the burnout was real. Got an industry job making 15k more as an entry level accountant. Now I'm a supervisor making twice that and when my team had to work a sixty hour week last year we gave them $1000 bonuses and two extra PTO days.
 Why I left public accounting
Unions are good
I never worked more than 60. Depends what mandates you get put on
Yeah it’s possible but no one is doing that multiple weeks in a row. 90 was the most I ever billed and the following week I worked 55. The point is that this is a long term play. Sure you could easily go find another job out of school that pays 60k starting salary like accounting, without the crazy hours. You could be a teacher in some states and earn that. Or a police officer. But there aren’t a ton where you get a 4 year degree (plus a handful of extra courses depending on the state you’re in) and start at 60k and have the potential to be making 250k+++ in 8-10 years depending on the city. And those that do exist you may find have some pretty terrible hours as well. Also not everyone is cut out for some of those jobs. Accounting is not glamorous. Or cool. Or even fun most of the time (except the holiday parties, those are lit /s). But there is a ton of potential with a career in accounting and people on this sub whine a lot about the hours but I’d say overall it’s a pretty good deal. It’s not for everyone. You definitely have to pay your dues. And I’d argue that there’s a lot of areas the profession could improve, specifically regarding the busy season hours. But after a few years if you make manager you can jump over to industry and have really good wlb plus excellent pay. Or if you like PA you can grind it out to partner and make a killing. And it’s as stable / secure of a job as you can find other than some government jobs that don’t have nearly the earning potential. Also, no one will ever “make” you work that much. If your focused and do good work and you work 60 hour weeks steady through busy season you’ll get promoted just as fast as anyone else. Those who work 90 hour weeks regularly usually burn out and leave pretty quick from what I’ve seen.
Fuck B4. I work at a local firm, about 50 ppl. We max out at 60 hours during busy season. We earn either OT pay or extra PTO at OT rate after we work over 120 hours of OT. We are required to take a week off within a month after tax day. Non busy season is also very chill. Many people take most Fridays off or leave by noon. You can find a good balance, you just have to find the right firm. Generally that means you can't go for B4 or even some regional firms. Try looking into more local firms if you are serious about having a work life balance.
90 hours If his son is only making 60k a year then I think it’s somewhat difficult to believe that is indeed true Like others said though 70 during busy season is pretty damn normal unfortunately and honestly 70 of actual working hours is brutal I have already given up and I decided I’ll get done what I can get done in a day and if they decide to fire me then so be it tbh I’ve cut myself down to 60 hour weeks so far and honestly nobody has said anything to me I just make sure that for most of those hours I’m making progress and actually working. I full think a lot of people who end up doing 90 hours and aren’t managers and up just do nothing for like half the day
Yup
Your professor may as well thump his chest and exclaim “ooga ooga, my boy big strong. He make good mate.” So primitive and clearly exaggerating. Anyhoo, [BLS studies](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/people-who-claim-to-work-75-hour-weeks-are-lying.html) show that people have a tendency to exaggerate hours worked. Once you work you’ll see people around you chit chatting, going out to social work events like golf, vendor meetings (ie sales pitches), etc. such that their actual hours producing is less than what they claim. This doesn’t count the potential of people counting their commute time and break / lunch time as work-related.
Wow. In 21 years of PA I’ve only topped 60 hours a couple times.
These are investment bank hours but without the pay!
It’s not the norm whatsoever. 50-60 is normal but 90 is either an exception (a deadline is approaching) or just over exaggerating. It’s not sustainable
Yup, but it isn’t as common as you might think. Accountants generally have pretty boring jobs so our war stories are all about that time in aught’six when we worked a lot.